Connections with Evan Dawson

Mayoral candidate Rachel Barnhart

February 7, 2017
WXXI News, Rochester, NY

Evan Dawson: From WXXI News, this is Connections. Im Evan Dawson.

[Connections theme plays]

Dawson: Our connection today was made yesterday, when former journalist Rachel Barnhart became the
second confirmed candidate in the Rochester mayoral race. She joins former police chief and county
legislator James Sheppard. Incumbent mayor Lovely Warren has not yet announced whether she will run
for re-election. This hour, its our chance to sit down with Rachel Barnhart and examine her plans, and her
vision, for her native city. She entered the race with a number of detailed ideas, from taxes to poverty to
education, and we already have a pile of listener questions on these issues and others. Well get to those;
we have plenty to discuss. So, Rachel Barnhart, candidate for the mayor of the city of Rochester,
welcome back to the program.

Rachel Barnhart: Its nice to see you.

Dawson: Well, before we jump in with Rachel, Randy Gorbman - the news director - has a brief interlude
to say -

Randy Gorbman: That interlude would be please, now, please pledge your support, its important now
more than ever. I was just thinking about, Evan, this show and many others youve done over the last
year, in terms of electoral process and candidates, and of course youve invited all the candidates for
mayor and other offices on your show, its so important to have a public forum like this, but, again, to
continue public support for this and other programming you hear on WXXI, we need your support. We do
these pledge weeks pretty seldom, I think, on the stations during the year, but you can make your pledge
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wxxinews.org. You can securely and safely make your pledge there, but please continue to support this
kind of programming because we want to continue doing it. Its been a very busy year, especially with
Connections, it costs some money, so we need your help.

Dawson: Thank you Randy Gorbman, news director for WXXI News, and were gonna get started right
now, with Rachel Barnhart, who is, as I said, a long-time resident of the city of Rochester, so I assume
you wouldnt be running for mayor if you were satisfied with the current mayor. Why arent you satisfied
with the performance of Lovely Warren?

Barnhart: Im not running because of Lovely Warren, and Im not running because of Jim Sheppard. Im
running because of what Ive observed over the last twenty years in our city. That is managed decline;
status quo, high unemployment, high poverty. People with choices often dont want to be here. I am
running because I have a specific plan to address these issues.

Dawson: You think, though, when it comes to people leaving the city, or as you say, a managed decline,
that there is an effort to turn that ship around and it could take some time - it could take years - but it
might be happening?

Barnhart: People have been trying to turn that ship around for many, many, many years, and incremental
investments and programs here and there are simply not going to do the trick. We have to think much
bigger. Rochester has a basic problem; its a problem of dollars and cents, but people with choices arent
coming here and the only way we can make it competitive is to make it make economic sense.

Dawson: Can we start there, the proposal from your campaign that I think has gotten the most attention
so far -

Barnhart: Sure.
Dawson: - of the last twenty-four hours, and thats a proposal to cut property taxes - for everyone - by fifty
percent. Now, if you go to Rachels website, thats - Rachel Barnhart for mayor -

Barnhart: rachelformayor.com

Dawson: -dot-com, you can see a lot more depth of analysis - depth of explanation - for these proposals.
If youve got questions you can call the program this hour, well go through them, but on this, I want to
start with this tax cut question. It wouldnt take effect for three years, but fifty percents an enormous tax
cut, you know, so lets work through how it would work.

Barnhart: Sure. There are several reasons why we need to do this. First, we are a city of poor
homeowners. Half of our homeowners earn less than $50,000 a year. 27% of our homeowners pay 30%
of their income in housing costs, which qualifies as burdened. 60% of renters fall into that category, and
we know landlords pass on property taxes to their tenants. So we know that our homeowners need relief,
particularly our low- and middle-income homeowners. We know property taxes are a problem because
every single new development in town gets a property tax. My proposal would -

Dawson: A property tax break.

Barnhart: A tax break, yes. My proposal would reverse the distortion in this system which rewards people
at the top end and everyone in the bottom end continues to pay the same high rate. Property taxes
actually can be a regressive tax, and that is how it works in the city of Rochester.

Dawson: Why is it regressive?

Barnhart: Because people at the lower end are paying a greater portion of their incomes for property
taxes, and we have the data to support that in this city because many of our homeowners are burdened.
You know, I knocked on a lot of doors last summer, and some of them, Ill never forget, and I can still see
their faces. I would ask them What can I do for you? What would you like to see from your government?
and they said Help me with my house. They needed major repairs. They were in upside-down
mortgages, through no fault of their own. They may have owned their house for twenty years and the
neighborhood declined. They cant get home equity loans and they dont have extra income to make the
necessary repairs, and I know that has a cascading effect. So number one, my proposal would provide
relief to current people. Number two, though, and importantly, it would attract investment into our
community. This would be a property tax cut for everyone; for both homeowners and for businesses, and
that would be very attractive. Yes, there would be people saying look, you could never pay me to come
back into the city. Thats okay, I dont need you; I just need people over here. I dont need everybody, I
just need a few to come back to make a really strong difference in our community. When you cut property
taxes, too, home values do go up, and create wealth. Thats a good thing.

Dawson: Well the average home, according to your website, here, the average home in the city is
$72,600, with a property tax bill of $1,394. The average homeowner under your plan would save $697 a
year, there, but this wouldnt go into effect for three years -

Barnhart: Yes.

Dawson: - because youve got to come up with a way to make sure you can pay for it - you can afford it.

Barnhart: Yeah. Absolutely. And I forgot to mention there is another reason we have to do this. If we cut
our property taxes, well actually be in line with Buffalos rates. Buffalo homeowners pay far less. Buffalo
collects the same amount in taxes as Rochester does, and yet it has 50,000 more residents. The
difference, and - the difference is because of state aid. This disparity hits us right in our wallets.
Rochesterians get less in state aid - $200 less per person - than Buffalo does, and we are forced to, by
state law, pay our city schools $49 million more. There is a direct relationship to what we pay in property
taxes, and we need to draw a line in the sand and say enough. Okay, so you want to know how were
going to pay for this. [laughs]
Dawson: Well, well, well I think this is part of how you want to pay for it, but Rachel, no mayor in my time
in Rochester, going back fifteen years, has succeeded in convincing that this disparity has to change.
Nobody.

Barnhart. Right. Well, Bill Johnson made a big deal over this. He certainly made a big deal over the
maintenance of effort with the school district, and I am not in any way proposing cutting that. I believe we
need our schools to have their funding, Im not proposing cutting school funding. Bob Duffy raised some
noise about this, but Tom Richards and Lovely Warren were pretty muted about this issues, but I also
have never, ever seen a mayor say that youre paying more in taxes because of this disparity, and Im
saying it, and you really can draw that line on the budget and you can look at Buffalos budget; you can
look at our budget, and you can do the math and its almost the same amount, and it hits us in our wallet.
And I think that is a really compelling argument. The other thing that I think will work, this time, in getting
the states attention is, what Im saying is, Look, this property tax break wont go into effect for three
years. During that time were going to plan, because the key to making this work is long-range fiscal
planning. Putting money away into a dedicated fund. Yeah, well tighten our belts, well do that, and we
may consolidate the water system with Monroe County, which could be $200 million. Wed have to study
that; thats an enormous amount of money. And, um, we will get new investment. New homeowners and
new businesses will make up that lost revenue. I think Governor Cuomo would like all of those things.
These are the very things hes talking about. Consolidation, property tax cuts, and budget cuts. We can
do all of that. And, we can do it without any service cuts. Again, the key is careful planning and spending
priorities.

Dawson: All right. You mentioned consolidating water services with the county. I certainly dont want to
imply that you havent studied that, but some may say thats a lot of money, and if it doesnt come
through, what are you going to do about that promise of a 50% tax cut?

Barnhart: This - this is a roadmap to where we need to go. I have offered suggestions for how we can get
there. Some people might not like all of my suggestions, to them I say what are yours? Get on board,
lets all figure this out together, to see how we can get there, but I believe very strongly this is where we
have to go. This is where we have to go if we want to help our city grow; if we want to reduce poverty; if
we want to get people back to work, and if we want to make Rochester a city of opportunity again. And,
on the water system, we know that Monroe County did want to buy it fifteen years ago, but they never
really did an independent study to find out what its worth, and Mayor Johnson at the time said look, I
dont think city taxpayers are protected. We would never do something like that without doing due
diligence, without doing a major study - which the state would pay for under its consolidation grants - to
find out how we could make this work, to protect city taxpayers and city workers, and to protect that asset.
But the bottom line is Monroe County already share a lot of water and I think this would be a very
attractive proposition to them.

Dawson: All right. So, I know in the last twenty four hours youve heard from some people who say, for
example, I live in Victor. I would consider moving to Rochester if this plan goes through. Youve also
heard from people who say This sounds like a big campaign promise, a fifty percent tax cut. That would
probably be impossible to fulfill. For those who are skeptical, who think the best you can do is ten
percent, twenty percent, is there any chance that three years into your term youre looking at this going
we shot too high, thats not gonna happen?

Barnhart: Well I cant do anything by myself, as mayor. You have to bring other people along. I am telling
you this is the goal; this is where we have to go. And there are ways to get it done. I - I think one of the
things you would have to do make this work is the day you pass this property tax cut you have to make it
really hard to take back, or else nobody wants to come in, because they think you can just pull the rug out
from under them. It has to be a charter amendment or something like that where you cap the rate. There
are things we can do. And sure, it would be a leap. But, you know, whats the worst that can happen? I
just dont see a big downside here at all. I really dont. We planned for this. We find the money. We have a
deadline, and we make it happen. And you know what, if we end up cutting property taxes by twenty-five
percent, thats still very significant.

Dawson: Matty on Twitter is an example of someone who sees a possible problem. He writes, I own a
home in the city and property taxes arent a major issue to me. Arent we just creating a problem down the
road of budget shortfalls and loss of services? How do you avoid this without one-time gimmicks. The
issue is that people my age, when they have kids, move to the suburbs because of the city school
reputation.

Barnhart: Yeah, this isnt a one-time gimmick because, as I said, well be planning for the short-term
revenue loss, but with an increased revenue investment in our city, the revenue will go up. San Francisco
and Boston, in the 1970s, were pretty terrible cities. They were in dire, dire straights; nobody wanted to be
there. They had a taxpayer revolt and were forced to cut their taxes. Guess what happened. Everybody
came back. Without regard to crime and schools, everybody came back, and they flourished. They had a
surplus within four or five years.

Dawson: So San Francisco and Boston are kind of a model for what you want to do with this?

Barnhart: I wouldnt say its a model, there are things that are a little different. For example, they had a
higher tax rate than their neighboring towns at the time, which made them toxic. We, on the other hand,
have about the same tax rate as our surrounding towns, some more, some less. But I believe if we go
that low, we can get people to come back. But this has been shown to work. The other thing that happens
when you reduce taxes is more people pay their taxes. People who are delinquent end up being able to
pay. That happened in Detroit. Their tax levy fell, not because they wanted it to, but because its Detroit.
They ended up not having any tax receipts - no fall in tax receipts - because people said oh, I can pay
now.

Dawson: Okay, so before we move on to some other issues which are part of Rachel Barnharts platform
as she runs for mayor of the City of Rochester, one more question on this subject. You write on the
website - on your website - that this initiative would mean the end of corporate giveaways to the rich.

Barnhart: Thats really important.

Dawson: In the form of property tax abatements. What I want to hit is the point that youre trying to make
here, that this is aimed at citizens who may be struggling; this is aimed at homeowners who want to say
in Rochester, but just about every mayor, just about everyone in economic development at most levels of
government - state, county, city - will tell you, just as you noted earlier, that when companies think about
cities like Rochester, they say what do you have in it for me? What is the tax break? What can you offer
me? And some might say that what you offer here might drive them away.

Barnhart: Absolutely not, because our tax rate is going to be very attractive to them. We can do away with
PILOTs; we wont need PILOTs. Well have certainty in their tax rate; well be securing their property
rights, well be securing what theyre going to pay for years to come. Ive talked to people about this. Ive
talked to developers; Ive talked to economists; people love this idea because it gives them certainty
about their taxes. And it is wrong that we keep paying people to come here in terms of property tax rates
and you and I have to pay high taxes on our homes that dont have as much value. It - this is not trickle-
down economics; I would argue it is the exact opposite. Also, part of my platform is well end the pay-to-
play system. No more campaign contributions from people doing business with the city, and that includes
developers. This, this - what I am proposing is fair to everyone; provides opportunity to everyone, and will
attract people to this city.

Dawson: Are you saying there are unseemly between developers and city government right now?

Barnhart: Look at who donates to campaigns. The people who put in bids for projects, the people who
have projects going, the people who want projects, those - people pay to access. We pay for access. We
know this.

Dawson: First question from a listener is John in Rochester. John, youre on with Rachel Barnhart. Go
ahead, John.

John [on the phone]: Good afternoon. Im a student attending the University of Rochester, my question is
its very unusual for someone to announce their candidacy for major public office without inviting the
public. Is there a reason the public wasnt invited to your kickoff, nor were they encouraged to attend?
Barnhart: Yes. The public was invited to my kickoff; they were able to watch it online, and we were able to
book a small room. I did a slideshow with numerous slides, and we did not want a pep rally. We wanted to
set a tone. We wanted to set a very serious tone about issues, and, if people asked me where it was, I
invited them to come down, but we wanted to set a tone that our campaign is about issues; were not
going to have a frivolous campaign pep rally. We can do that at a later date. But yesterday was about
issues, and its not unusual; its not unusual for a campaign. Ive covered many announcements where
the public doesnt show up.

Dawson: Were going to try to do, throughout this campaign season here on Connections, were going to
focus on the issues; focus on how the candidates would govern, what they would pursue. I know you saw
the statement from the Friends of Lovely Warren committee yesterday; it was a short one, responding to
your entry into this race. We dont know if Lovely Warren is going to run for re-election, but the statement
from the Friends of Lovely Warren committee was the following, quote:

Last year Miss Barnhart ran for State Assembly. This year, she has announced her candidacy for mayor.
We are curious to find out what office she will run for next year.

Dawson: End quote. Is that unfair, or is that fair?

Barnhart: I think the statement speaks for itself. Its petty; its childish, and I think it goes to why Im
running, here. Im - yes, I ran for State Assembly last year. This campaign is the same fight. We are
fighting to reduce poverty. We are fighting reduce inequality. We are fighting to increase opportunity. We
are fighting to increase economic development policies; fighting for better transit; fighting for more
childcare. The fight is - the fight is the same, and Im not giving up. And I have heard nothing from any of
the two other candidates - or Lovely could be a potential candidate - of substance, at all. And the fact that
you issue a statement that has nothing to do with issues speaks volumes.

Dawson: When it comes to the kind of shadow thats out there, Ive said on social media myself that Ive
been disappointed with some of the commentary thats out there about race already. Its hard to get away
from race. What I want to ask you is not a question based on - what I perceive to be - the really personal,
nasty stuff. What I want to ask you is a very direct question, because this is a community that is, as we
know, is still more segregated than many cities of its size, struggling at times with issues of race. As
mayor of Rochester, how would you view making sure that everyone is included in decision-making, in
opportunity, in progress, in neighborhood growth? Do you think you could do it?

Barnhart: Absolutely. I value diversity, and I value representation, and I value building relationships and
coalitions. Certainly my administration will reflect the community; certainly I will build relationships with the
faith community; with neighborhood groups; with anyone who wants to dialog with city hall, and in fact
that is part of our platform that we will have an open city hall, for people to come in. We will solve your
problems, we will have a tenant ombudsman, you know, if were going to have a property tax break we
want renters to come in and get their problems solved. Well have a jobs office, we have a fourteen
percent unemployment rate in the city. People who want jobs will be able to come in; get some resources.
City hall with face outward. We want it to be a place that is open and inclusive to everyone.

Dawson: You think its shrouded right now?

Barnhart: I think that a lot of people struggle to get - look, I was a reporter for a long time, and I got calls
every day from people who were struggling with this issue or that and couldnt get answers or had to deal
with red tape, and I believe that I have the skills to, uh, make city hall turn outward and solve problems,
because thats what they turn to city hall to do.

Dawson: You know, you must mentioned having a jobs office, well perhaps supporters of Mayor Warren
will say well, Rochester Works is already there.

Barnhart: Sure, and we can work with Rochester Works, but the bottom line is we have a fourteen percent
unemployment rate in the city. Its higher for African-Americans and Latinos. This is completely
unacceptable. We need to figure out where that disconnect is, and we need to have a place - it doesnt
have to be a major place with twenty people on staff - but I want to have a place where people can come
an get resources. Somethings not working, and Im very happy to work with Rochester Works or any
employment expert on what we can do to fix this and what city hall can do to fix it. I want city hall to be
able to facilitate this.

Dawson: All right, listeners, if you want to join the conversation its 295-TALK, thats toll-free
855-295-8255 or 825-WXXIl if youre in Rochester, 263-9994. Sam in Rochester, next with Rachel
Barnhart. Go ahead Sam.

Sam [on the phone]: Uh, yes. When the mayor ran for office, she said that there was two cities; white city,
black. Now theres got to be three, because ninety-nine percent of the mayors work effort, money, and all
of that has gone to the north of Rochester in Charlotte. There has been nothing accomplished in the inter-
city, in the urban part of the inter-city. And she ran on that she was going to improve of homes; improve
the quality of life; she was going to get in and get out drugs and all that. None of that has been done, and
as far as jobs, Bob Duffy, who is the chairman of the Rochester Business Association, has supplied more
jobs in the black neighborhoods than Mayor Warren has. Now, Mayor Warren has changed her looks -
shes had to change her looks - but that didnt do nothing to change her mind. Now, she bought new
glasses and got a new hairstyle and that -

Dawson: Sam, Sam -

Sam: didnt get anybody in the urban community.

Dawson: Sam, Im going to cut you off right there. I dont want to talk about appearance. I think thats fair,
and Sams a regular caller and everything I can tell; a great guy. And I appreciate the phone call, Sam, but
lets not do that; lets not talk about glasses or hairstyles, if we could. Lets talk about the substance. And
what Sam is saying, Rachel, is that he doesnt see a delivery on jobs for everyone. He sees a
concentration of focus on parts of the city, but not for everybody. Is that fair?

Barnhart: I think were not doing a good job reducing poverty in our community. I proposed that the city
finally step up and provide funding for childcare. It would be about, um, less than two percent of the
budget to fund spots for 1,000 more children, and in fact, probably far more children could be assisted
because the state does matching funds. So, its really a travesty that this hasnt happened before. Its not
a huge lift for the city to be able to provide some funds for Monroe County. Instead, all we hear is
politicians blaming this person and that person for why isnt there any childcare funding. Well, I think its
time for the city to step up and pay for this and find the money.

Dawson: Okay, do you have an expenditure, an idea, on an annual basis, for how much -

Barnhart: Its about six and a half million dollars, but as I said, the state does provide matching funds so
we believe that we can affect far more than 1,000 children. And, um, I think thats the kind of thinking that
we need. We need to stop living in our silos, we need to perhaps collaborate with the county on some of
these things; I think the county would be thrilled to administer this kind of program for us.

Dawson: All right, phones are starting to light up as we continue our conversation with Rachel Barnhart
who is running for mayor of the city of Rochester. A couple more questions from the host and Ill let our
listeners do the asking in the second part of the hour here. I want to talk a little about your views on
policing. You have a few changes in mind for RPD, specifically what?

Barnhart: Well number one, we need to have a fully-staffed police department. Ive always criticized
mayors for - when they have recruit classes and say oh, look, were spending more money on police,
and I would say well your budget has an authorized strength in there and youve never met it. So we
need to make sure were always at our authorized strength, and that means staying ahead of retirements;
staying ahead of disabilities, and we need to make sure that these officers are actually in the community.
That is true community policing. Therere an awful lot of officers down at headquarters and at offices, and
we need to get as many officers as possible on the road. I also think we need to reform the civilian review
board process. We - right now, rely on investigations conducted by the internal affairs department. That
does taint the process. I believe police chiefs should issue written decisions about why they are choosing
to uphold or not uphold complaints, and I think complaints need to be resolved within 120 days. Our
citizens are asking for these reforms and I think theyre very reasonable.

Dawson: You have also said that part of the challenge of open-air drug markets, for example, is drug law
to begin with. That right now, weve got drug markets in various parts of the city; wee heard from
residents, from neighbors whove worked so hard on those issues, but often its people who dont live in
those sections of the city that come in, sell, leave, or come in, buy, and leave, and theyre working on
these issues. I know RPD is working on these issues; the mayor say shes working on it. Part of what you
want to do, though, is advocate for it, as part of the strategy?

Barnhart: Well Ive long been an advocate for legalizing marijuana -

Dawson - Marijuana

Barnhart: Yeah. And I would definitely use my bully pulpit as a mayor to encourage state lawmakers and
encourage Governor Cuomo to get on board. The war on drugs is simply not working. As for heroin, it
needs to be treated as the public health crisis that it is; that issue has personally effected my life, with a
loved one, and, um, its a very scary thing. We need to be focused on saving lives. And, um, as far as
open-air drug markets go; we know who the criminals are in a community, and in the past weve been
very successful at rounding up young gang members, for example, and reading them the riot act, or even
arresting them. I think we can do the same with our drug dealers. I know that the police department works
very hard on this issue and I know its complicated because you clear a corner and they go in the middle
of the block; they go inside. Its a very dynamic and complicated issue. I will support any efforts to clear
those corners. Its hard. Its hard stuff, because the war on drugs is a hard one to fight.

Dawson: Okay, our only break for the rest of the hour and then listener questions clear on home. You
mention on your website, on this issue of policing, you want to make sure were not over-targeting what
you call minor offenses.

Barnhart: Correct.

Dawson: That was an interesting phrase for me.

Barnhart: We need to be focused on problem-solving policing, and I do think that the vast majority of
officers approach their job that way. They dont want to arrest people - they dont arrest people, more than
they arrest people. But I do think that it makes a statement to the public to say look, you know, write a
ticket as a last resort. Write that disorderly conduct as a last resort. Write the jaywalking as a last resort.
Thats not what we really want to be focused on, what we want to be focused on is conversations so that
the behavior doesnt happen again. And a lot of it happens with the police officers.

Dawson: Okay, but when you set that tone, from city hall, the main reason is what? Whats the main
reason that you set that tone?

Barnhart: I want to set a tone that we want trust between citizens and officers, and we want our officers
focused on crime. We dont want - we dont want an antagonistic relationship at all. We want to make our
residents safe. We dont want to make them dislike police officers or feel theyll be target for minor things.
And, remember something, a ticket can have a spiraling effect on someone, that they cant pay. And thats
a huge problem for a lot of people.

Dawson: Okay, lets get our only break of the hour and well come back with your phone calls with
questions for Rachel Barnhart, who is only our second declared candidate for Rochester mayor this year.

[Connections theme plays]

Dawson: Coming up in our second hour, we examine the question of if any action can truly be selfless. Its
a discussion about why people do good things, or do things they think are good things. What is morality
really based on? Can you measure it? Is altruism even possible, or are all of our actions based on some
kind of motivated self-interest? Talk to us next hour about it, well share your thoughts.
[Connections theme ends]

Dawson: Welcome back to Connections, Im Evan Dawson. Brief hello from our news director, Randy
Gorbman.

Gorbman: And hello Evan. Hello, Rachel.

Dawson: Hello.

Gorbman: And again, another important discussion here on Connections and we bring you a lot of
discussion last year during a big presidential year and we bring you a lot of local elections, not the least of
which is the mayoral race here in Rochester. Well bring you some extensive coverage on that; special
reports, also trying to gauge impact in the community. And to do everything we do here int eh community,
we do ask you a couple times during the year for your support, which we are doing this week, if you could
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support today. Thanks.

Dawson: Im just gonna say, if our listeners, whoever is listening, if you dont are about journalism in 2017,
dont call.

Gorbman: There you go. Thats pretty simple.

Dawson: If you do, 454-6300. Thank you Randy. We continue with Rachel Barnhart, who is running for
mayor of the city of Rochester, and back to the phones we go. Rich, in Rochester, is next. Go ahead,
Rich.

Rich [on the phone]: Hello, good morning - I mean good afternoon.

Dawson: Yes, sir.

Rich: Um, Rachel, touching on two things that you sort of touched on: Number one, you mentioned giving
more assistance to renters, as far as maybe their rights or whatever, also, theres a lot of gentrification
going on in Rochester and one of the problems with gentrification, of course, is pricing people out of the
market. What moves do you want to make that is going to support the lower middle class and middle
class residents of the city as far as housing, as far as maybe, um, doing something to spur housing
ownership within that market?

Barnhart: Right.

Rich: As whats going on with the higher-end market?

Barnhart: Right. Thank you very much for asking that question. One thing the property tax cut will do is
allow more renters to afford mortgages and get into homes, and gentrification, Im glad you brought that
up, it is a natural question if youre talking about growing the city. When I think of gentrification I don't
think of rising property values, rising incomes, and more neighborhood services. I do think of, however, of
people being displaced; renters being displaced and homeowners being displaced. Thats bad
gentrification, and there are things that we can do to prevent that from happening. First of all, we need to
make sure we have economic diversity in our neighborhoods, and that means building low- and middle-
income housing in our higher-end neighborhoods. You cant just concentrate low-income hosing in certain
neighborhoods. Thats just not going to work. Also, if a neighborhood is gentrifying, there are programs
where you can give tax credits or other kinds of credits to homeowners to help them stay in their homes.
There are very specific steps that we can do to make sure longtime residents, who are the cultural fabric
of the community, dont have to leave.

Dawson: All right, back to the phones, and we go to Mike in Rochester next. Mike, go ahead:

Mike [on the phone]: Yes, hello, sorry. I had a question in regards to - you spoke of the civilian review
boards earlier, and I would like to know what your thought on actually having more of a - um, what am I
trying to say here - more of a - its supposed to have an accountability, um, for the police. Is there a way
to have more power to the civilians, because right now its, as far as I understand, just a recommendation,
and the police chief is able to do whatever he wants to do.

Barnhart: Yeah, thats correct, and this has been a long-standing issue. The Rochester civilian review
board has been held up as a model, but in practice its really not independent, it really has more to do with
what the internal affairs department says. And the police chief has the final recommendation, and the
other thing is none of this becomes public, because under state law, police officer disciplinary records
have to remain under seal. Um, and that can be very troubling to people involved. I do think there has to
be a way that we can inject more accountability into the civilian review board system, and Im open to
those ideas. But keep in mind, there are state laws that we would have to follow on that issue. But the
police chief does have the final say. I believe that they should have to write up a report on why they are
making a certain decision. For example, the Benny Warr case, the main in the wheelchair who is on video
being beaten by police officers or arrested by police officers, thats going through federal court right now
and you can read a lot of documents in that lawsuit, and then-Chief Jim Sheppard exonerated those
officers, I think, or found it unprovable. Didnt discipline them, essentially. Only disciplined one for making
-

Dawson: And by the way, on this program, James Sheppard, whos running for mayor, said that he
defended that decision, that the process, essentially, that he believed that it worked. But the video that
Rachels talking about shows a man in a wheelchair with, I believe, one leg, knocked to the ground by
officers after -

Barnhart: It was a very un - it was an arrest where there was a use of force that was for disorderly
conduct; the charge was adjudicated in contemplation of dismissal, and, um, it is winding its way through
the courts right now. And, um, in, on the page where it says the chief found it unprovable, he did write a
letter, a disciplinary letter, for someone who, you know, said a bad word. An officer said a bad word to
Benny Warr. Thats all, but he should have to write up why. You know, there should be an explanation of
why he came to his decision, but in his deposition on this case, he was asked, you know, is it normal to
knock over a suspect? and the chief said It depends on whos winning. And theres a pattern of referring
to officers use of force as winning and losing, and its very disturbing. But I digress. The issue with the
civilian review board is theres just not a lot of information that they have to go on, in many cases. I do
believe they have the power to call people before them, but in practice, they really do end up relying on
the packet that they are given from internal affairs.

Dawson: Do you think that people of color are treated differently by police in this city?

Barnhart: I would like to think that thats not the case, and I know that there are officers who work very
hard every day to keep people safe. I do support the Black Lives Matter movement, because it
acknowledges that there has been a disparity in justice in our justice system, and we know thats true.
And Ive certainly covered incidents in Rochester that raised a lot of questions. And, um, I would certainly
hope, as mayor, that I would set a tone, and any of that discrimination, which sometime can be
unconscious, just cant be tolerated. We have to listen to people when they say that they are being
discriminated against. We have to listen to them.

Dawson: Former Chief Sheppard, on this program, had some very strong words for the current mayor,
Lovely Warren, for the fact that she did not show up for the demonstrations last July that we saw. He said
she should have been there, as the mayor, to help in different ways; to be a part of it. And the police chief,
Chief Ciminelli, said look, he told us he asked the mayor not to be down there. I couldn't guarantee her
safety, I wanted to make sure -
Barnhart; There was a missed opportunity much earlier in the day, in my opinion, because there were, I
think the city had, um, something really early in the afternoon, while people were working, had a moment
of silence because of what had happened in Dallas, and she had a moment of silence, but the public
wasnt really involved with that. I think there was a missed opportunity to have a moment of unity where
people on all sides of this issue were looking for a place to come together and grieve. And, and I think as
mayor I would have liked to provide that opportunity. I will say about the arrests that night, I thought while
it may have been appropriate to clear the street of the protestors, Im not sure they needed to be written
tickets.

Dawson: Okay. Back to the phones, Robert in Fairport. Next up with Rachel Barnhart. Go ahead, Robert.

Robert [on the phone]: Thank you for taking my call. Im not quite sure if I understand how a fifty percent
cut in property taxes is going to work in a city where maybe thirty percent or under a third of the
properties are already tax-free, I mean, University of Rochester and RIT and various churches and non-
profits, including the one youre sitting in right now, conducting this interview, dont pay any property
taxes, so Im not sure how that is going to be accomplished. The other thing is I believe the city of
Rochester borrowed money to pay retirement contributions for its own employees, so Im not really sure
the city is being run very fiscally responsibly right now, and Im curious to see how Miss Barnhart think
about that - how she would handle that.

Barnhart: Im basing these numbers on what our current assessed valuation is and our current tax levy.
So, um, were not really talking about properties that arent being taxed. I believe that fiscal responsibility
is going to be very important. Spending priorities are going to be very important. Im not talking about
slashing and burning this budget or services; Im talking about making or spending priorities such that
they serve residents. Weve spent money on projects that havent delivered; were giving tax breaks to
developers and not homeowners. Im saying we need to restructure our system.

Dawson: Would you agree with the idea that if you cannot get the state to increase the aid that you say
Rochester deserves vis a vis other upstate savings and whether water consolidation doesn't happen, then
youer going to have a very hard time paying for what you want to do?

Barnhart: I think there are a number of things that we can talk about, but Im open to other ideas. Like I
said, Ive provided a roadmap, Im open to other people ideas for how we can get there. Every, you know,
every politician says that they have goals, and when they get into office its on them to get there. We can
go down a number of ifs on my plan, but this is my plan, but people can weigh in on it, and it may
change. I want to hear what the community wants, but I believe very, very strongly that this is where we
have to go for our homeowners and spur investment and bring back businesses. I believe very strongly
that what we are doing now is not working, and that you have a very clear choice in this election. You can
vote for change and a new way of thinking about city government, or we will be sitting here in four years
and we will be having the same high poverty rates, the same high unemployment rates, and nothing really
will change.

Dawson: Ive had a number of listeners ask about not only the property tax plan, but your ability to get it
done, and I think that speaks to experience. I know youve already, in the last twenty four hours of being
in this campaign officially, had some say you know, what are the qualifications that some should have?
And so, you get used to that question. Youve been a journalist, youre working with Settlement Houses -

Barnhart: Im the Chief Development Officer for the Settlement Houses Foundation of Rochester, thats
correct.

Dawson: So when they say - does that prepare you to be the mayor of Rochester?

Barnhart: Heres what I would say to the experience question. Im going to argue that my opponents have
the wrong experience and I have exactly the right experience. For the last eighteen years, I have read
every single city budget; I have read every single city council legislation; every single request for
proposals; every single big draft for environmental impact statement. I have delved into the financials and
the feasibility of the Inner Loop, Midtown Plaza, the Port of Rochester, the failed Renaissance Square
project, Blue Cross Arena. Ive looked at all of this very closely. Ive spent a lot of time with every single
mayor, police chief, school superintendent. Ive talked to thousands and thousands of citizens about their
hopes, their dreams, and the problems they have in their lives. I know what works and I know what
doesnt work. I have the skills and the knowledge and the leadership ability to be mayor. Part of this job
will be surrounding myself with the best possible people without regard to political patronage or relatives
to execute a vision, because that is what a mayor is supposed to do. Weve had managers. Weve had
managers for twenty years. Weve had experienced managers, and guess what? Were in the same spot.
Nothing has changed. We need a bold vision and we need new leadership and thats what I provide.

Dawson: All right. John in Fairport next on the phone with Rachel Barnhart. Go ahead John.

John [on the phone]: Thank you Evan. Rachel, I vote libertarian so Im delighted to hear a Democrat want
to reduce taxes. I wrote an op-ed in last weeks Rochester Business Journal called Its Time For
Rochester to Lead from the Bottom Up, and so Im just wondering - I talked a lot about how this city does
have a sense of community and people with disparate interests who are in positions of influence do work
together very well to make progress. Were at a culture now where of loudness substitutes for leadership
and authority sometimes, and I wonder how you can come in and restructure government in order to
achieve your goals, um, without putting people in a situation where theyre on the defensive and how you
can, ultimately, gain the support of city council as well as other people who have influence on our
direction?

Barnhart: Sure.

Dawson: Thanks John.

Barnhart: I think thats a fair question. Im going to have to work with an awful to of people. Im going to
have to build those relationships, and guess what? I already have a lot of those relationships. Through
eighteen years of reporting in this city Ive met many of these people and many of them respect me, even
if they dont like my politics, they know who I am. I would hope to build on those relationships, but no
mayor can get anything done on her own. That is very clear. And one of the things that is very important
to me is to involve the public. Weve seen with the Inner Loop; weve seen with Midtown Plaza, I dont like
how these committees are just choosing the plan and there hasnt been a lot of input there.

Dawson: You know, you wrote a book about your experience in the last campaign.

Barnhart: Yes.

Dawson: And you were disappointed in so many ways with the Democratic party; with what you perceived
as unfair attacks on you, outside of the substance of the campaign. That was a tough book, and it was a
very stern assessment of local politics. Can you come off that book now and still have relationships within
the Democratic party structure and still work with them?

Barnhart: Sure. Heres the thing: I wrote that book because I learned a lot, and I think other people
learned a lot, too. In fact, Im going to a book club tonight with a group of doctors at Highland Hospital
who invited me because they wanted to talk about it. Its resonating with people who recognize that we
need a change. When people ask - I know you asked Jim Sheppard this on the show about unifying the
party and he said he could reunify the party, and thats ridiculous. Hes running on the Turn Out for Tom
ticket, essentially. We cant continue to have factionalism and petty party politics if we want to improve our
city. And the only way we can end that for good is to stop choosing candidates who are from either
faction.

Dawson: Its is Gantt/Morelle? Are those the two factions?

Barnhart: Yes.

Dawson: Those are who youre talking about?

Barnhart: Yes it is.

Dawson: Okay.

Barnhart: And Im not sitting here and saying Im the savior and Im going to unify the party, but what I
can do is say Im not part of this nonsense and the only thing I care about is fixing our city and
strengthening this party, and as long as we keep fighting each other, and releasing statements like the
mayor made yesterday, we will not succeed, and this is why we get lackluster candidates and this is why
we dont win many elections, because the party operates, too often, like an exclusive club. In fact,
someone just tweeted me, why arent you involved in the party? Im trying to be involved, Ive asked to
be on a committee, so far they arent letting me. Im trying. I have been a Democrat since I was 18 years
old; I share your values. I am a progressive Democrat, and we need to stop thinking about whos paid
their dues and whos stuffed envelopes and who did - who worked for this person and who worked for that
person. The fact is, Im here now, and I want to contribute, and I have something to contribute.

Dawson: All right, a few things from the host and then listeners. Real quick, here, on policy issues, you
said on schools, you would not be in favor of mayoral control.

Barnhart: This is a really important question, because, you know, I went to a segregated school. Im a
graduate of John Marshall High School. I believe in a countywide school district, and I think thats the
moral position to take on this issue; however, I dont think well see that in my lifetime, theres no legal
mechanism, and theres no political will. The best thing that we can do to fix our schools is to fix the city.
Number one, we have to lift people out of poverty. We know that high-poverty schools have lower
achievement. This is why Im proposing a property tax cut to get more businesses in Rochester to provide
jobs. Im proposing childcare; Im proposing fiber internet in every home so children can have -

Dawson: I was going to ask you about that as well.

Barnhart: - so children can have -

Dawson: And you pay for fiber internet.

Barnhart: Yes, Ill tell you about that. - So children can have opportunity. And number two, we to attract
and retain milddli-class families because economic diversity is key to improving our school district. No one
wants to go first, you know. We meet all kinds of families who say we have to move to the suburbs; I
cant send my kid to that school, I just cant do it. But what if we can all go together? What if we get
everybody in a room, once we get a critical mass of families, and say look, I know you may not want to
send your kid alone, but what if we all go together? And as mayor, I will be a true champion for the city
school district. I will be the biggest cheerleader and I will have those conversations and I will pull families
into that room and say can we just try this together? Lets all just hold hands and go. Because it will help
our city, and it will help everybody. It will help children from all walks of life to have diverse schools.

Dawson: Fiber internet would be huge, but can it be paid for?

Barnhart: Fiber internet is a capital cost, and it can be, um, it can be shared with the Rochester City
School District as well as a private vendor. I look at fiber internet like infrastructure; its like a road.

Dawson: As in you have to have it.

Barnhart: I do. And its not only for our children, who need access to opportunity, because about half of
our city school children dont have internet at home, its also to create - to send a message that Rochester
is open for business and we are a high-tech city. Businesses want affordable fiber. This could be a real
game-changer for us.

Dawson: This is unfair, but can you do it in twenty-five seconds: Charter schools. Would it be different
under a Barnhart mayorship?
Barnhart: The only concern I have - Im not a charter school fan, but theyre here, and I believe we need
to collaborate with them, particularly on facilities. I don't like that theyre building duplicate school facilities;
taking properties off the tax rolls, I think that this is unsustainable plan.

Dawson: All right, youve been waiting all hour. Keith, go ahead, keep it tight.

Keith [on the phone]: Real quick, Rach, I didnt support you when you were running against Harry, but I do
support you fully for the mayor. One of the big things is youre not a public servant right now whos retired
and will be able to double-dip. I wanted to ask Sheppard that question, but was never - I was never able
to get on the air to ask him. I think that the people who have public pensions, that retire after twenty, thirty
years and then go back to work again, I think they shouldnt be allowed to take their pensions -

Barnhart: Well let me tell you something. I agree. I think when youre retired, you should be retired, but
the thing about Jim Sheppard is not just his pension, but who else hes bringing on staff that needs
pensions, such as Molly Clifford. I mean, this is - the other two, the other two campaigns are all about jobs
and pensions. Im here because I want to serve my community, and Im not here because I want to dole
out jobs to people.

Dawson: Your website one more time, in case people want to see more about your plans.

Barnhart: rachelformayor.com. I really want your feedback. I really want to hear from you. I know Ive put
a lot on you on the website, but I believe in being transparent and I want you to know exactly what a
Barnhart administration will look like.

Dawson: There are two candidates officially int he race for mayor; James Sheppard and Rachel Barnhart.
You have heard them both for an hour on this program. If the mayor runs for re-election, shell have the
same opportunity. If others get into the race, theyll have the same opportunity - I hope multiple times -
and I hope we see some debates.

Barnhart: Ill be in.

Dawson: Its early on.

Barnhart: Any time.

Dawson: I know youve said that, James Sheppard has said that as well. Thanks for being here, I
appreciate your time.

Barnhart: Thank you, Evan.

Dawson: Short break, more Connections next.

[Connections theme plays]