Transcription: SOARING UPWARDS WITH HIGHER EDUCATION

Dato' Seri Idris Jusoh, Minister of Higher Education

14-Jul-16 10:09

In Malaysia, university enrollment rates are increasingly higher in 2016, almost

40% of those eligible to enrol in universities do enrol in university. This number
was actually a far cry just about 40 years ago. In 1979, only 4% of total
Malaysians available to apply for universities actually enrol in universities.
Because of this importance in the role of tertiary institutions in Malaysia, the
government has set up a special ministry called the Ministry of Higher Education
to look into this. In the studio with me this morning is Dato Seri Idris Jusoh, he is
the Minister of Higher Education and he is here to tells us how the ministry has
been doing, particularly when it was just shy of 2 years ago you were here, Dato.
First of all, thank you for your commitment in coming back and defending your
track record as the Minister of Higher Education. If you have any questions for
Dato Seri Idris, you can text us 0162019000 or you can tweet us @bfmradio.
Dato Seri, let me start off with Selamat Hari Raya and lets start with the notion
of universities getting lesser funds in Malaysia right now. Based on the budget
presentation as well as the supplementary budget presentation by the Prime
Minister, the Higher Education Ministry is getting less funding this year than it
would had last year and this trend will continue on considering the government
is getting less in terms of revenue.

Interview Transcript

Do you think that the diminishing budget allocation from the

government is going to pose a problem for the Higher Education
Ministry?

You have to look at our blueprint. Whatever we do at the moment in the ministry
is based on our blueprint. Blueprint is based on our consultation, the
memorandum that we read, the communication, the open halls that we have
with people, focus group, our consultation with UNESCO, World Bank and its a
global matter. Its not just an issue. So when we look at the financial
sustainability of our universities, we are 80%-90% dependent on the government
which is not sustainable.

But this budget has been trimmed by RM2.4 billion. Some of the
universities, in fact, 19 out of 20 universities will face cuts as much as
20%. So while we understand that we cant be over reliant on the
government and we never should be over reliant on the government,
can these universities cope with these cuts? Do they have lead time to
actually find other sources of revenue?

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As I said, its based on the blueprint has been agreed upon, they understand why
its being done and from what I see, of course theres going to be pain here and
there. But this is a pain we have to go through to ensure that universities are
going to be financially sustainable in the long run. I was quoting to you, I was
telling that our Thammasat is only 30% dependent on the government. Were not
saying that it has got to be 30% but were saying that we cannot be 80-90%
dependent on the government.

So youre speaking on the pain, that these little bits and pieces of pain
that people have to go through, actually is quite serious because, Im
quoting The Sun Daily news here, that over 150 contract professors
between the ages of 61-70, they claim and the word that they use is,
termination of contracts of professors because of budgets tax cut. Do
you think that these professors being terminated is a direct
repercussion of the budget allocation being cut to the ministry?

You have to understand that this is not termination, okay. Those professors are
above 60 years old so their contract expires when they are 60. So those who are
unneeded by universities are going to be continued on contract basis. So its not
termination, its not being continued because they have completed their
contract and again I said, the dean, the senate of the university will look into
those whom they think are required to universities and will continue giving them
contract to serve universities.

Some of these professors, even though they are quite senior in age,
some of them are heavily specialised in their training, particularly
professors in the medical field, where youre gonna see doctors that
have specialised in that particular field of medicine for over 40 years.
Isnt it a shame to let them go because of bureaucratic processes?

No, I wont say its bureaucratic. I say again, we give money to give funds to the
universities and I said the dean of that particular university or the senate of that
particular university will choose whom they think is still fit to teach and they
need as a contract professor in the universities. But I do throw a challenge
before, if you think there is any particular,as what you said, we dont want to put
it to shame, we want to make sure anybodys whos still required or needed in
that particular area, give me names. I can look into it, I can talk to them. But
also, I said its the prerogative of the university but I can still talk to them if you
think there are names that need to be looked at. We dont want to be redundant,
we dont want to be out of the service.

Dato, it goes without saying that when you fund something or

someone, you practically hold that person in your account. Right now,
the government is not funding universities as much as they did before.

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Is this a loss of autonomy from the government or are you seeing this
as giving more autonomy to the universities?

This is giving more autonomy to the universities, in the sense that if theyre too
dependent on the government, they cannot be autonomous of the government.
Theres autonomy only when you can, as I said, in foreign universities there are
only 40%-50% dependent on the government and they can have more autonomy.
If you generate fund on your own, you can spend the money any way they like. If
the money comes from the government, then some restrictions on the way you
should conduct yourself. So by collecting more money on your own, you can be
more autonomous. You can do more things as you feel right to do.

Theres a tweet by Wan Saiful from IDEAS. Hes asking what are the
ministries plans to give universities more autonomy. Can I add on to the
question, particularly on their fate in determining research papers. Do
you think universities have a more direct say on what research they can
do or cannot do as opposed to today where the government practically
dictates what must be done in terms of research?

We dont dictate what needs to be done. Theres a group that looked at our,
which belonged to the professors, I dont even go through what research they are
doing. But this group of professors we looked into, what are the research they are
gonna do and they probably have to defend what theyre gonna do and probably
look into the relevance of the research that they are doing and we do have this
FRGS research fund for them. I dont even know who gets and whos not getting
it. So these are the group which belongs to the professors among themselves
who decide what should be done and what should not be done.

Still on the funding aspect on universities, do you think that

universities today in Malaysia, both private and public, have the
capacity and means and most importantly, the competency to source
for more funds out there? Do you think that its right for universities to
treat its activity as a business?

Now were not saying that universities should treat themselves as business. Im
against a total marketization or financialization of universities because they
should be coming with our, if you look at the aim of our graduates were gonna
deliver holistic, entrepreneurial and balanced graduate. Its not just GE, its not
just how much money you make. Thats why the governments still funding,
were still funding. And if you look at UM, if you look at UTM, and even UPM,
some of them are at the mark of being able to finance 30% on their own of the
expenses. Were giving them a target of around 70% for the time being. They are
nearly there, 70% funding from the government. Some of them are nearly nearly
there.

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Dato Seri, do you think that wakaf have a place in terms of finding
funds for universities?
Of course. If you look at Harvard, if you look at Oxford, the Malay, they survive
on endowment. You look at big universities overseas are mainly based on
endowment. In Malaysia, we call it wakaf which is Islamic-based kind of
endowment. Theres a big potential for it. This is what we are encouraging. In a
fact today, today I am launching the playbook for wakaf in our universities.

And what does that playbook entails?

Playbook gives you guideline..how should be established...what need to be

done...what not...what you shouldnt be doing...it gives you a guideline how, you
should come out with the wakaf fund.

And this is to be launched today?

Launch today. Afterwards at 10 oclock.

Okay. Right after the grille.

Dato, do you really believe, Malaysia has World Class Education. This is
coming from a text from a listener, and also from my heart right now.
Do you think we really have World Class Education?

We say.were saying what were saying is that..we are.sorry- were improving

all the time. Thats why I made the commitment to come back again after last
two years of being here, to say that - my commitment. I said in that Grille saying
that Malaysia should get the best education that should get in Malaysia.

But of course, when I said that I can proof by, by looking at our..ranking. QS
ranking..if you look- if you look at it-

Alright. So right now what I have in my hand right now is a booklet, a bio of
ministry, entitled Addressing Future Challenges in Higher Education. It says
here, that some of the local universities are outranking international universities.
And this is by our QS education- sorry QS Rankings. First of all, for those who
dont know this ...ranking, what is it, what is the qualification of this ranking.

Say...the most popular ranking...in the world for universities, is this QS Ranking.
Of course, we have THE, we have ARWU..of course. Well, Ill go into the most
popular ranking if you look at UM - three years ago it was 167 in the world. It has
go up to 151, and it has gone up to even 146. We have broke - UM have broken
150 barrier. So is USM from 355 to 309 to 289, and UPM from 411 to 370 to 331.

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Right. Now Im quoting The Star here. The question that was posed, in
this ranking, includes, if money wasnt a problem, where would you
study medicine, would you send your kids to Ireland, Cardiff, Dublin, or
Universiti Malaya, and the reason here is that many of them dont see
Universiti Malaya to be in the same league, as all these other- you know
universities that Ive mentioned. Why is that the case?

Malaysian has always been skeptical with our education system - probably were
not doing as well before. But- we are improving as time goes on. If you look at
these three or four universities, Id say youd put - Id say what you said put
Royal Surgeon - Royal College of the Surgeon Ireland, Cardiff Universities and
Trinity College Dublin - and none of these universities scored above 82...82
points as academic reputation in medicine and life sciences. UM..UM does.

Yeah okay so, so UM outranks Royal College of Surgeon Ireland, they

outranked Cardiff, they outranked Dublin- Why is the perception there?
I mean you were mentioning that the Malaysians are skeptical about
our own quality of our education of world class status. Why is the
skepticism still there?

Probably were not doing as well before. We were-we were not doing as well
before. Thats why Im here to tell that we are improving. Im here to tell that we
are sorry - thats what we are saying. Were telling the public that we are
improving as we move along.

Lets take this a little personal, not the public. Theres a text from a
listener called Ravinder, Dato Seri, where do you and other ministers
send your kids? Do you send your kids to public schools, or private
schools?

Yeah my - my kids , my eldest daughter - went to public school and she had her
first degree from - UIA , somy second...son went to UITM, my third son also
went to UIA...so they are from public schools yeah.

Yeah okay, this is something exceptional in terms of ministers sending

their own children to public schools. But many of your colleagues...they
send their kids to private schools both at education- school going level
as well as tertiary level. Why is it that your colleagues are doing such?
Dont you think as ministers of the cabinet, they should be emblematic
to the public of Malaysia and send their kids to public schools?

Again, it is an issue of perception. I was saying, I was saying we are here to

correct the perception saying that we are not as good-

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But but but that isnt it difficult to set the perception on the ministers
themselves. Not you yourself, but the ministers in the cabinet
themselves dont say your work, as commendable because they are still
sending their kids to private schools.

Many other ministers are sending their kids to the public universities and public
schools. They may be some that do send to the private universities but you
cannot say that all ministers sending their kids to the privates school and public-
private universities I mean, Id Id say otherwise you know

Alright. Datos Seri lets move on to the story of the quality of

graduates right now. We believe that the employability of the
graduates is under question. Do you think that Malaysian graduates can
find jobs after they leave school?

Of course if you look at the graduate employability.percentage, which is now

76.1%...this year, which is 1% better than last year, which is not good enough. I
do understand that...once we send our kids to universities we make sure that
they get employed. The effort is being done in the, in the universities at the
moment. Thats why we do have - we looked at a few areas. We do have the CEO
Faculty Programme, we do have the 2u2i Programme - 2 years in university, 2
years in the industries. We look at ICGPA Programme: were the first in the world
to introduce that, to make sure that students are more holistic. When I say CEO
Faculty Programme, we do invite CEOs from Air Asia, Azman from Khazanah,
CIMB, Shell, Motorola, to come to the universities and lecture, and not only
lecture but to look at the curriculum we have to make sure they are relevant.
When we introduced 2u2i, we are the first in the world to do that, whereby you
spend 2 years in universities and 2 years in industries - nothing to do with
2U(laughs) - so that they know what is happening. Especially UPM, we doing in
plantation, where you spend 2 years in universities and 2 years in plantations.
Universiti Kelantan doing entrepreneurship. This makes sure that theres no issue
of not being employed. Another one, very important also, were the pioneer in
the world for Integrated CGPA, where we dont just look at your CGPA, we look at
your communiciation skills, your entrepreneurship skill. We look at practical skills
and other skills, rather than just academic to make sure that you are holistic.

Dato, there are two texts coming in. One of them is Aril Ratnam, also
another one from an unknown text-sender. They are asking: Do you
think there is a competitive advantage for employability if a child goes
to a private school, instead of a public school - this is because private
schools are perceived to have better holistic education, better English
education. Do you think there is a competitive advantage?

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If you look at English, maybe. But not all private schools are good. We have some
very good public schools. But Im not going to talk about schools today, because
Im the Minister of Higher Education.
Of course, if you look at the ranking, we forget - we were saying just now about
medicine - but if you want to send your kids to do engineering, and if youre
given a choice: University of Malaya, Yale, Edinburgh, Kings College, Cardiff, and
McMaster, if you look at the ranking, University of Malaya stands at #54. All the
others, even Yale, stands at #65, #73. Again, its perception. I would request
Malaysians to look at the figures, look at our ranking, look at our reputation,
because we do have, in some areas, where were the top 100 in the world. Were
doing better than some of the so-called reputable universities throughout the
world.

Dato, theres a tweet by an individual named Hasiff Murad, he is asking

if we still need universities for bumiputeras only. If I recall, one of your
child actually goes to UiTM, and UiTM can be classified as a
bumiputeras-only university. Is there still space for that?

Current say that Malaysia still have this Act 153, which protects bumiputera at
the moment. So, UiTM serves the constitution need of the country at the
moment.

The question is: Should we have it. The Constitution is there, of course.
The question is: Should we have it.

I think we still need to have this bumiputera affirmative at the moment. Depends
on how you look at it, depends on how it is being carried on. Its still there, the
Constitution is still there. And UiTM serves the Constitution that we have at the
moment.

Dato, lets move to another story here. Theres a text from a listener,
asking you, How is the Ministry dealing with local and foreign students
particularly in extremist activities and ideologies. Now, this text echoes
the big question of rising Islamic extremism. Dato Seri Zaid Hamidi, the
Deputy Prime Minister, also the Home Minister, have also addressed this
publicly, but we would like to hear it from you, on how to tackle this in
universities.

Of course this is a serious issue. The moment I come back from Raya, right on
Sunday - on Monday itself, at 3pm we call a meeting, we have a meeting with
the police force, we have meeting with the immigration, with KDN, you know. We
have to look into it, and we do believe that we have to be more stringent in
taking in foreign students to Malaysia, is more stringent measures, to make sure
that those activities, those foreign activities are not going to absorb into, not
going to be our students and...

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What are the concrete measures to deal with this? Because, even a
small issue of teaching the required course, called TITAS - or Tamadun
Islam Tamadun Asia - theres a controversy here, where a lecturer in
UiTm actually took things into his own hands and basically inflamed the
entire population of Malaysia in the way he taught this subject at that
school. , at that university. Do you think that, Number One: TITAS
should still be around? Number Two: Do you think that, you know, these
rogue lecturers, teaching stuff that is not part of the curriculum, is
going to endanger the livelihoods of Malaysians in general?

Okay. TITAS is required. But what happened in UiTM is, he went out of the way,
and is not using the curricula that is provided with the Ministry - it has got to be
fully understood. But, were serious about it. And, Im telling BFM - Ive not said
this to anybody as yet, Ive not said to the press as yet - that lecturer has to be
fired. Wre serious about it, and we have to take stringent action against him.

Now, you said you would leave it to the management of the university
to do it. So, was it the decision of the university to fire him, or was it
directed by you

No, no, no, no. The university, they are autonomous at the moment. They hire
lecturer. They have the right to fire him.

Okay

And I was being told yesterday that he has been fired.

Now, this individual is emblematic of the system itself. Does the

government have a system in place where lecturers dont become rogue
and start teaching extremist ideologies?

Were telling that, lecturers have to be in line with government policy. And again,
this is not - were talking about issue of Daesh, issue of IS - theyre not even
Islamic. So this is what we have to be doing, to be telling the students and the
lecturers that they should understand what Islam is all about and what Jihad is all
about, as well as understanding what Bayah is all about.

Dato Seri, with all due respect, by you telling them that these are not,
Daesh or IS, are not the true Islam, we still see a lot of Malaysians,
particularly Malay undergraduates signing up for ISIS, theyre flying
themselves into Syria to be freedom fighters. Do you think that your
work is not working?

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We are starting. We are looking at it seriously because the issue of Daesh is a
serious issue, its real, so were making sure that were meeting with the Vice
Chancellor, were making sure that we have to tell the students and lecturers.
We have to look at it and we have to tackle it seriously.

Nordin Mat Top and Professor Azahari, these are bomb makers, they are
lecturers as well. Are you worried that university lecturers are going to
become

Im worried, youre right. I look at it as a real and serious issue, thats why were
meeting the Vice Chancellor, well make sure that we have to tell the students
and lecturers what is meant by the right Islam. Islam has got to be taught in the
right way, and has to be understood properly.
Up next, we will be talking about the rebates in PTPTN fully, that will improve
lives of the many graduates in Malaysia. This is BFM 89.9

On the Breakfast Grille this morning we have Dato Seri Idris Jusoh the
Minister of Higher Education. Dato, lets jump straight into it. You have
mentioned very recently that Malaysia has now over fifty six thousand
students in higher learning institutes, including foreign students. This
puts us in the league of, say, United States in terms of foreign students,
as wells as above Vietnam. Do you think that Malaysia is truly becoming
an international hub for foreign students to come here?

Of course. Even two weeks ago, we had dinner with the British High
Commissioner, and according to a survey by the British Council, Malaysia
together with Germany, as far as our open policy towards internationalisation of
students, even compared to the UK, Australia and USA.

Do you think were attracting students from the right countries,

particularly when these 56 thousand students that come in, almost a
fraction of it only is from the first world countries like US, UK, even
Singapore?

Well, its going to take time. As I said, we have to do more summer programs, a
lot of them do come for the summer programs. We have to do more short term,
bring in some of the flying professors, we have to increase our perception to the
Americans and we have to do more engagement. I think itll bring more of the
students from the first world countries to Malaysia.

Because we have about 60 thousand foreign students in Malaysia, how

many of them are truly students

We have 122 thousand at the moment actually -

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Alright, 122 thousand. So how many of them are actually truly students,
and how many of them are abusing student visas here?

There are students, I have to say *laughs*. Some do have problems, we have
problems some of the foreign students before. Thats why we introduce EMJS, the
Education Malaysia Global Services two years ago to ensure that those who
come here are really students so with the introduction of EMJS, we can control
the so called who are students, who are not students.

Now, first half of this year saw vice being cracked down by the Ministry
of Home Affairs, and they say that a substantial amount of those being
caught or arrested, they have student visas. Particularly those who are
sexual workers, they have student visas. How do you think ties in with
your statement that many of them are actually students?

If you look at some, some do go to colleges and universities. We dont have

much problem with those who go to colleges and universities, because we have
to scrutinise the finan- the education background, we have to scrutinise the
capacity, the financial capabilities, as they come in. But we do have issues with
those who come for short term - two to three months, under language centres.
So, we are making sure that, again, that they really are students.

Still on foreign students, theres some protests in the suburbs of Kuala

Lumpur, in Puchong and elsewhere, where they protested against
foreigners in the country, who they claim to be foreign students. Do you
think that Malaysia is becoming increasingly intolerant of foreigners,
particularly when they live amongst us, in the suburbs?

I dont think so. As you said, what they thought to be foreign students. This is
something that we have to look at, probably. Because, all the time when you see
some foreigners, we have the impression that they are students - they may not
be students. Thats why once we have the EMJS, they (the students) will be
carrying a card. The student card will identify whether they are really students or
not. Were doing a crackdown on some of the colleges to make sure that its not
going to happen. So, hopefully, by having the EMJS, where we can track where
the students are, where we have to produce their cards, we have to make sure
that whats being said is not going to happen.

How are you going to track the efficiency of this EMJS program? Do you
think that there is some quantitative measurable output where we can
actually deduce that this is indeed working or not?

Sure. Students who carry the student card, you can use a system, a tracking
system, we know where they are, exactly where they are. For workers who come

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to Malaysia, you know where they are. For anybody who come to Malaysia who
gets the student card, we can track where they are, which you university or
college you are in, we can even track which country you come from, and we can
track how many from that particular country. How many are there, in this
country. So, its quite a complete system to track the students.

Shifting our focus away from the nitty gritty stuff on foreign students,
can I ask you, these foreign students in Malaysia, how do they feed
back into the Malaysian economy into the Malaysian system? Are we
going to be able to make use of their talent or do they just go back
home and requisite their talents in their home countries?

The majority would be going back, but some do stay here some become
lecturers, and contribute to our publications and citations. The good ones who
want to stay here. Some are absorbed in the workforce with international
companies,

Do you have a measurement of those who stay back and feedback into
the economy?

The numbers are not that many but there are some. I wouldnt have the exact
numbers at the moment but some do stay back but the majority as I said would
be going back to their own countries

I am speaking to Datuk Seri Jusoh, the Minister for Higher Education.

Datuk, part of your portfolio also covers funding and PTPTN which is
also the government scholarship and loan sourcing program. Do you
think PTPTN is currently solving its problem of students not paying
back?

Yeah, with the introduction of a new method called CCRIS, more and more
students are paying back because of the attitude of students saying it is
government money so they dont have to pay back.

Now this is an assumption that you are making here. Could it be

perhaps that students just dont have money to pay back? Even a
hundred bucks when you are earning two thousand ringgit in KL, thats
already what, 5, 10% of your total income. Is it because of them having
a nonchalant view that they dont want to pay back because of
government money or just because they simply cant?

You have to understand that PTPTN is very flexible. When I say they are not
paying back, those people who never come back to you for the past three, four,
five years. I mean what I am appealing to the students that if you cannot pay
back, do come to PTPTN and tell them you cant afford to pay. If you cant afford

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to pay a hundred ringgit, or two hundred ringgit, just pay fifty ringgit to the
PTPTN saying that you are serious about paying back and I keep on, I told PTPTN
never, ever make it tough on Malaysians, ok, but the problem we are having now
is that they dont even appear. We have those who are earning ten thousand,
those who are earning fifteen thousand not paying. We will locate them. We will
not disclose who they are but these are the issues that we are facing in PTPTN.
Now I would say things are improving. That was the past, now we see that
normally, in the past one year, past two years, PTPTN has collected fifty million a
month. Now they are collecting over two hundred million a month. So PTPTN is
doing good now, Malaysians are paying, thanks to Malaysians, that was before
but with the improved way in how PTPTN is conducting themselves, more
Malaysians are paying but again i want to repeat myself: if you cannot pay, do
come to PTPTN and tell them that you cannot afford to pay and if PTPTN is not
responding - do come to me. I want to make sure that PTPTN is not going to
going to, in Malay , menganiayai anybody

And there you have it, a personal plea by the minister himself. Datuk,
lets move on to another subject. Theres another tweet by a Ahmad
Suhaimi asking What are your plans for the future and perhaps we
can segue into this topic of this Massive Open Online Courses or MOOCS
where these individuals can just go online and study there. Is this a big
thrust in the ministry of higher education?

You have to understand that education has changed over the past many years.
Education is becoming more flexible. Education is no more rigid. You can get your
education anywhere. With the online information, you can learn anywhere,
anytime. Anyone, you want. Education is becoming more flexible, so thats why
MOOCS are becoming more important. You can learn online. Thats why you can
even get a degree by learning online nowadays

And because of this, are you worried about the quality of these online
degrees. Do you think there could be counterfeit, there could be lesser
quality in terms of say, face to face learning versus online learning?

Of course online learning has to be accredited by a QA. There is no such thing as

no accreditation but online also needs to be supported by face to face and
thats why we call it blended learning rather than just online learning. Even
though the online learning we have now is blended not totally online

One of the best globally recognised MOOCS program is called Khan

Academy, its a non profit organisation created by Sayed Khan with the
aim of providing a free world class education for anyone. Is this where
the direction of MOOCS is going to be? Something like Khan academy?

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MOOCS is going to be cheaper to run because you dont need as many
classrooms. You dont need lecturers present all the time. They will reduce the
cost of education in the country but as I said, education is becoming flexible; its
going to be a combination of MOOCS and normal classroom learning. Thats why
we are serious about it. Thats why Malaysia is becoming the only country in the
world who put things together as a country. Others do, other universities do on
their own but in Malaysia, we put all the universities together. We have a
consortium of universities that we do MOOCS together and recently our lecturer ,
Professor Amin MB won the educators award from the open education
consortium ; which is one of the biggest open education network in recognition
to what we have done so far

Datuk, in the UK, they partnered the department of higher education

with the department of science and technology. In Sweden, they have
this triple helix model where they have companies like Volvo, IKEA,
Scania working hand in hand together with Universities to jointly
collaborate research papers and build practical uses for research. Do
you think Malaysia has practical uses for our research papers?

Thats why we are not talking about triple helix, we are talking about quadruple
helix. We are talking about collaboration with industries whereby we have this
CO faculty program when they come to university, its not only to lecture but also
to look at the curriculum thats why i told you we have the CEO 2u2i faculty
programme whereby they work in the industry. Theres a greater collaboration
with industry not only in research but also in designing the curriculum how
university is being conducted. Some have even made universities as their foster
university. Air Asia has adopted UPM as a university that they will work closely
together. CIMB is working together with UUM and many other universities are
working. Samsung is working with UTM in Melaka. So there is greater
collaboration now with industries.

The problem I have with research papers in Malaysia, I fear that the
blood and sweat and tears that is being poured into making these
research papers is going to be lost into the ether because of the non-
practicality uses of it. Do you think its a real concern that I have or do
you think most research papers in Malaysia have practical uses for it

You have to understand once youre in research is first the difference between
fundamental research and commercialization of research. Before you can even
commercialise the research, research are mainly fundamental research. It took at
least 10 years for you to get the research to get commercialized. That happens
throughout the world. And the success of commercialization is only 4 - 5% which
is world standard. But again, we have PPRN in Malaysia whereby small
companies can go to universities and say you have problem with the product,
you have problem with your kuih, a bus company you have problem with your

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bus. Small business have problems. You can go to University for researchers to
become a realisation within a year or six months that would help small
businesses. That is the real commercialisation on that small stage

Datuk, you were here two years ago and there were two cabinet
reshuffles since. Do you think youve done a good job?

I dont want to. Im humble with the cooperation I get from my staff, the
universities but what i can say is that we are soaring approach as we go along for
the last two years

Final question, why soaring upwards? Why these very interesting

terms?

If you look at again, its always been the perception when i became the minister
two in the ministry three years ago, we are nowhere. The perception towards
education is bad. Now three years down the line, I see we are improving, our
ranking has improved, our research has improved, and our citation has improved.
On the global stage, we are getting recognition throughout the world and as I
said, Alhamdulillah , we are improving. Thats why the words Soaring Upward
keep coming in
I have been speaking to Datuk Seri Idris Jusoh, the Minister for Higher Education,
thanks for being on the grille and thanks for keeping your word in coming back
and Selamat Hari Raya,Datuk
(Chuckles) You want to see me back next year?

(Laughs) Inshaallah. Im Ibrahim Sani, for 89.9 the Business Station

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