The Bassarids

Author(s): Hans Werner Henze and Paul Griffiths

Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 115, No. 1580 (Oct., 1974), pp. 831-832
Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd.
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/959848
Accessed: 03-11-2015 18:17 UTC

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TheBassarids
Hans WernerHenzetalksto Paul Griffiths
'The Bassarids' has its Britishpremiere,producedand
conductedby Henze, by the English National Opera
at the London Coliseum on October 10.
*
P.G.: Could you say somethingabout how your
collaboration with Auden and Kallman on 'The
Bassarids' came about?
H.W.H.: After the Glyndebourne production of
Elegyfor YoungLovers I said to themthat I would
verymuch like to work with them again, and
Auden said something about doing The Bacchae. In that case, what did you mean by calling it an
ThenI readtheEuripides, and I wasveryimpressed. 'opera seria' ?
I wroteto themin New York,and theysentmethis
libretto,whichis verymuchbased on Euripides- I don't
it's not a freeinterpretation; it only adds 2500 gave it to the piece. I would have liked 'Musik-
yearsofexperience,so to speak. trag6die'.
And it was afterseeingthelibrettothatyou decided
toformtheopera as a four-movement symphony ?
No, I had asked thelibrettists
to givethetexta
symphonic form.
To whatextentdoes the opera have theformof a
conventional
symphony?
Thereis a choralintroduction whichhas almost
nothingto do withthesymphonic structure, except
thata trumpet signalis introduced thatappliesto
the characterPentheus (sonata elementno.2).
Whenthe introductory chorusis over thelisteners
hear Dionysus'scall, and in hiscall-on theword
'Ayayalya',whichis not Greek but Eskimo-his
wholesoundmaterialis exposedas a melodicline,
with motifsthat become independent.That is
followedby an orchestral repeat,and is thebegin-
ningof thesonataform.Now, of coursewe don't
expectan orthodoxsonataformto develop,because
thatwouldbe boring, undramatic andanachronistic.
But I wouldliketo thinkthatI have beenable to
show thatcertainformsin our culture theatrical
forms,musical forms-are not dead, although
changeshave come to them:the sonata formis
something differentnow thatfunctional harmony
has been abolishedby atonality, let's say, but the
problemand thefascination of it is notat all dead.
Quiteon thecontrary, perhapseventheabolitionof
functional harmony has liberated theforcesimman-
ent in such a form,whichis a dialecticalform.
In thiscase it's morethanplausiblethatthe two
opponentsof the drama(Dionysusand Pentheus)
will be counterposed by different themes,and the
clashoftheirtwoworldsis exposedintheexposition
of the sonata form:bothon the stageand in the
score.The secondmovement is, so to speak,the
scherzo:a suiteof Dionysiandances whichends
verydramatically withthemomentwhenPentheus
is going to be hypnotizedby Dionysus,and is
goingto face his doom. Then the hypnotization
movement,the centralmovementof the whole
piece, is an Adagio and fugue (a real fugue,
thoroughly constructed,whichis about 20 minutes
long).IntotheAdagiotheIntermezzo is interpolated
as an alienelement.Thefuguehasa verylargecoda,
thehunton MountCitheron, andthelastmovement
is a hugepassacaglia.
I know that Auden proposed you should 'make
your peace with Wagner' before workingon 'The
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Bassarids'. Would you relate your symphonic
structuringto Wagner? And in what other ways is
'The Bassarids' a Wagnerianopera ?
In the structure of Bassaridsthereis nothing
Wagnerianat all: Wagneris veryunsymphonic
really;it's the techniqueof the leitmotif,
of con-
tinuousmelody.In myworkthereis thesymphonic
forminstead,doneina veryanalytic, psychoanalytic
way,withclosedformsinterpolated intoit all the
time.
like that titleverymuch-the authors
If 'The Bassarids' is not Wagnerianin form,is it
so in any otherrespect?
No. The importantcomposerto this score is
Mahler.WhenI wrotethescorehe was mydaily
life,mybread,mycreed-and stillis.
Can you isolate anyparticularfeaturesthatattract
you to Mahler?
I thinkmainlythenon-Wagnerian thingin him,
the directhumanquality.Mahler'smusicis very
humbleand notashamed,whileWagner'sis aloof,
god-like,itseemsto me,and verysolemn.Mahleris
physically there,withall his sufferings,
his tears,
hisfear,hisinferiority
complex.I thinkMahleris the
composerwho has helpedmusicto getaway from
thisWagnerian aloofness:one couldalmostsay he
was a proletariancomposer.The factthathe came
fromverypoor people is one thing,the racial
inferiorityproblemhe had plantedinto him is
another,and thenthere'sthefactthathe brought, as
memories andas landmarks ofhissocialstandpoint,
folkmusic,themusicofthesimplepeople-notas a
landscapepainter,but as a psychological portrait
painter.And I also thinkhe is thefirstcomposer
whothinksin psychoanalytical terms.
Comingback to 'The Bassarids', the librettoasks
thatthecharactersbe dressedin costumesof different
periods. Is thatsomethingyou are retainingin your
Londonproduction?
Yes. In previousproductions theyhaveeitherleft
itout,whichwasnotgood,or theyhaveexaggerated
it. Here we are tryingto finda pattern, a Greek-
NorthAfricansetting, so thattherewillbe colours
to unifythem,to givethewholethinga style.But
in thedetailsof thecostumes,theperiodto which
the costumealludescomes back. The reason for
havingcostumesofdifferent periodsis a verypoetic
one.It meansthatthesubjecthasalwaysbeenvalid,
andthattheeventscouldhappenagain.Also,Auden
likedtheformof themasque;so youhavetheidea
ofa maskedball,whichalwaystakesplacein times
ofcarnival-andcarnivalis whathas stayedwithus
inourChristian civilization
fromtheBacchicrituals.
It seems to me, too, that having the characters
dressed in different
epochs has some sort of corres-
pondencewithyourmusic,whichalso drawson almost
anythingthat'savailable.
Yes. Knowingwherethesepeoplecame fromin
831
costumestyle,I emphasizedtheirattitudesand
behaviour. wearsthecostumethatis
Each character
mostsignificantforhim:thechastekingis dressed
as a medievalmonk;thesinisterprophetTiresias,
who is nothingbuta conformist,
comeson likean
archdeacon;and theprincesseshave somethingto
do withBaudelaire,theSecondEmpire,thedown-
fallofthearistocracy.
Andthesearefeaturesthatyou'vetriedto emphasize
in the musicfor the variouscharacters.
Yes. Now thatI rehearsethe orchestraalmost
everyday I see thatthereis a stylistic butmy
unity,
and it can easilymakea gesture
musicis flexible to
thatstyleor thatform.The styleis suchthatthese
allusions are possible-that'ssomething, by the
way,thatyoucan learnfromMahler.
Are you consciousof whatyou do to achieve unity
in yourmusic?
No, theunityof mymusicis myself. My styleis
at thesametimemyconception ofmusic,andart.In
thewholepiecethereare no quotations, apartfrom
somefromBach. At theend of theIntermezzo the
performers of thecharaderemember theslaughter
ofAdonison MountLebanon;and whiletheythink
of it theygetsad, and themusicsuddenly is sad-
half sad: half of the orchestraplays the Greek-
folktunelikeoverture to theoperetta, buttheother
half plays an almostexact quotationof an aria
from the MatthewPassion. This is something
Audenwanted.He was neververykeenon explain-
ing whathe wanted,but I thinkthe reference is
completelyclear: the listeneris asked to relate
Christ'sassassinationto thatofAdonis.Thenlater,
whenPentheushas been tornto pieces and the
peoplehave realizedwhathas happened,thesame
musicreturnsfor the chorus'O let my ways be
lowly'.In thiscaseitalso containsa critical element:
itsaysnowtheybehavelikeProtestants ina church,
veryhumbleand innocent;duringthe nightthey
have behavedatrociously. It's a littlebit likeAsh
Wednesday, wheneveryone is supposedto repent,
whichis, I think,a veryboringconceptionof life.
Thepassageis a moment ofdidactictechnique, when
theaudienceis reminded of thiseternalreturn, as
thoughman could neverstopit and becomemore
his own god. PerhapsFreudis the man who has
openedoureyesto thepossibility thatwecan break
thechainofeternalreturn. But thereis moreBach:
sinceI nowseemedto havediscovered thatAuden
likedtheidea thatChristand Dionysus,in certain
ways,are thesamething,I followedthisup. When
Dionysushas his apotheosisand bringshis mother
to rulewithhim(likeChristandthevirgin), whenthe
neworderhas beenestablished, theorchestra quotes
a D majorpiecefromoneoftheharpsichord partitas.
ThisquotecomesforthefirsttimewhenDionysus
tellsPentheus(in thesecondmovement) thestory
of his kidnappingin an aria, whichis a siciliana
based on the Bach. The opera ends,too, witha
sicilianain whichthe wholechorusbecomeslike
creeping vinesandivy.
This, of course, is somethingthat has oftenbeen
referredto: theeffectof Italy on yourmusic.I wonder
how you see thatyourself.
Italyhas alwayshad a greateffect on mymusic,
especiallyits folkmusic.All beautiful, all ancient
southern Italianfolksinging is basedon thesiciliana
rhythm, I
or almostall; and liketo thinkthatthis
musiccomesfromGreece,whichcouldbe possible
if you thinkof therhythm in Greek poetry.The
siciliana,Sicily,'la magnaGrecia'... thelightofthe
Mediterranean I thinkis in thescore,and also the
darkness,the crudityof it, the cruelty.There's
832
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anotherBach quote that I must not forgetto
mention:whenPentheusfacesdeath I quote the
SarabandefromtheD minorEnglishSuite.
To what extenthas your view of 'The Bassarids'
changedsince you completedits composition?
Not at all. It's not a particularly
Marxistwork.
The Marxist-Freudian view of it would be that
Dionysusis right:thedignity ofmanis inseparable
fromthedignityof his physicality. Pentheustried
to splitthesetwo: he thoughtit was possibleto
rejectone's genitals.And Dionysusasks mankind
to sayyesto life.
But is not Dionysusalso rejectingin a sense? He's
puttingaside controland reason.
I think.There'sa verybeautiful
Not entirely,
thingin Dionysusthatanti-Dionysian peoplehave
thathe madepeoplerealizethebeautyof
forgotten:
theearth,and he led people to live withinnature
withopen eyes,a lovingeye, to reducethe gap
betweenthe productionsof the earth and the
consumer.
I broughtup the point about your views on your
operas changingbecause some people criticizedyour
Scottish Opera production of 'Elegy for Young
Lovers' for imposingyour present attitudes on a
workthatdidn'treflectthem.
'No, you can't say thatat all really.I read the
libretto
morecarefully thanbefore,and I suddenly
saw thattherearemanycriticalthingsin it thathad
perhapsevenescapedtheattention ofthelibrettists.
I thinkthebeautyandthegreatness oflibrettoslike
the two Auden ones I had the privilegeto have
writtenformeis theirrichnessand multiple quality.
I onlyemphasizedthe charactersand gave them
moreof theirhumanrichness thanI had beenable
to do before,whichwas also due to thefactthatI
learntto stagebetterin themeantime.
How did it come about thatyou wantedtoproduce
and designyourown operas?
I startedbecauseI foundit so difficult
to work
witha producer:I'm verymuchan 'Augenmensch',
a visionman,and I cannotstandcertainuglinesses
whichseemnotto go withmysonority.
Werethereanyproducerswhoprovidedyou witha
model?
I saw Viscontirehearse,and I was delighted
by
his approachto the theatre.And I saw Brechtat
workin myBerlindaysbetween1948and 1950; I
saw him do manyrehearsalsof Lenz's Der Hof-
meister.
'The Bassarids' was preceded by five otherfull-
lengthoperas as wellas a large numberof otherstage
works;butnoweightor nineyearshavepassed without
a large-scaledramaticpiece fromyou.
Yes. Well,thereasonis thatBassaridsis, I think,
a rathercompletework,and it containseverything
I was able to do then.Afterthattheformof the
theatre me anymore:I neededtime,
didn'tinterest
and I wantedto thinkmoreabout musicin mere
musicalterms.But now whenyou look at certain
worksbetween nowand then...
'El Cimarrdn','Natasha Ungeheuer',. .
Yes, theseare obviouslyexercisesforsomething.
Even the Second Fiddle Concertois an exercise,
and evenAuden'sMoralities, thoseschooloperas,
are probablyan exercise-fora newstagework.
The Edward Bond opera ?
Yes.