1

2 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY

3 ILLINOIS COUNTY DEPARTMENT

4 CHANCERY DIVISION

6 -----------------------------------
:
7 SAVE-A-LIFE FOUNDATION, INC., :
:
8 Plaintiff, :
:
9 vs. : CASE NO.
: 07 CH 12022
10 PETER HEIMLICH, JASON HAAP, :
and ROBERT BARATZ, :
11 :
Defendants. :
12 :
-----------------------------------
13

14

15

16 Deposition of: JASON ALAN HAAP

17 Taken: By the Plaintiff

Pursuant to Notice
18
Date: October 3, 2007
19
Time: Commencing at 6:07 p.m.
20
Place: Sirkin, Pinales & Schwartz
21 920 Fourth and Race Tower
105 West Fourth Street
22 Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-2726

23 Before: Patricia A. Walterman, RPR

Notary Public - State of Ohio
24

25
 2

2 APPEARANCES:

3
On behalf of the plaintiff:
4
Thomas G. DiCianni, Esq.
5 of
Ancel, Glink, Diamond, Bush
6 DiCianni & Krafthefer
140 South Dearborn Street
7 Chicago, Illinois 60603

8
On behalf of the defendants Jason Haap and
9 Robert Baratz:

10 Wayne B. Giampietro, Esq.

of
11 Stitt, Klein, Daday, Aretos &
Giampietro, LLC
12 Suite 500
121 South Wilke Road
13 Arlington Heights, Illinois 60005

14

15 - - -

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
 3

1 I N D E X

2
JASON ALAN HAAP PAGE
3

4 Cross-Examination by Mr. DiCianni 4

9 EXHIBITS MARKED REFERENCED

10 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 22 22
Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 25 25
11 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 28 28
Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 29 29
12 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 29 29
Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 32 32
13 Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 33 33
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 33 33
14 Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 34 34
Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 34 35
15 Plaintiff's Exhibit 11 40 40
Plaintiff's Exhibit 12 49 49
16

17

18 - - -

19

20

21

22

23

24

25
 4

1 JASON ALAN HAAP

2 of lawful age, a defendant herein, being first duly

3 sworn as hereinafter certified, was examined and

4 deposed as follows:

5 CROSS-EXAMINATION

6 BY MR. DiCIANNI:

7 Q. Sir, would you state your name, please,

8 for the court reporter?

9 A. Jason Alan Haap.

10 Q. Mr. Haap, have you ever given a deposition

11 before?

12 A. Nope.

13 Q. Let me just tell you what we're going to

14 do today. I'm going to ask you some questions that

15 pertain to a lawsuit and affidavit that you have

16 filed in a lawsuit that's pending in Illinois. I'm

17 going to ask that when you respond to my questions

18 you do it verbally because the court reporter is

19 going to be taking down what you say, all right? And

20 if you have any problems with any question I ask you,

21 you don't hear me, you don't understand me, whatever

22 it might be, to let me know that because whatever

23 answer you give on the transcript, we're going to

24 assume that's what you intended to give, okay?

25 A. Yes.
 5

1 Q. What's your date of birth?

2 A. 3/6/75.

3 Q. And are you employed currently?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. What is your occupation?

6 A. English teacher.

7 Q. Where do you teach English?

8 A. Harmony Community School.

9 Q. Is that a full-time job?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Is that a grade school, high school?

12 A. High school.

13 Q. What grade do you teach?

14 A. Right now, 11 and 12.

15 Q. And is that English literature?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Tell me a little bit about your

18 educational background, your college.

19 A. My undergrad degree is in English from

20 Xavier University, here in town.

21 Q. Okay. And did you study beyond that?

22 A. I have a master's degree through

23 Middlebury College.

24 Q. Is your master's in English?

25 A. Yes.
 6

1 Q. Have you studied beyond that?

2 A. Not formally.

3 Q. I know that you -- I've seen in your

4 affidavit and elsewhere that you call yourself a

5 media activist. What does that mean?

6 A. Kind of like a political activist, only

7 when I think of a political activist I think of

8 someone who's out in public with signs, and I don't

9 have an opportunity to go out in public, so I use my

10 website.

11 Q. Okay. And political activist is somebody

12 who's active in politics in a way -- at least from my

13 definition, would be somebody active in politics in

14 a way that might not be considered mainstream. As a

15 media activist, do you consider yourself a member of

16 the media, although not mainstream?

17 A. I don't know exactly what you mean. Do I

18 consider myself --

19 Q. Let me back up a second then. Do you

20 consider yourself a journalist?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Do you consider yourself a member of the

23 media?

24 A. I don't know.

25 Q. Well, what does it mean to be, then, a

 7

1 media activist? I don't see the analogy to a

2 political activist.

3 A. It's -- to tell you the truth, the phrase

4 media activist, it's just kind of a label we've given

5 ourselves. It's not something that I've ever put

6 loads of thought into defining particularly.

7 Q. Okay. Now, you've said a label we've

8 given ourselves. When you use the word "we," who are

9 you referring to?

10 A. Oh, I was talking about my friend, Justin,

11 who I currently am doing some political stuff. He's

12 running for City Council, and he's a friend of mine.

13 Q. What is his last name?

14 A. Jeffre.

15 Q. Is he the Justin Jeffre who used to be a

16 singer?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. And he is a personal friend of yours?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. And he's running for what?

21 A. City Council.

22 Q. Like an alderman position? I don't know

23 what you call them, councilman?

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. So you consider -- you and yourself

 8

1 together consider -- I'm sorry, you and Justin call

2 yourself or label yourself media activists?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. So what do you mean to convey by that

5 label?

6 A. There's a local political party called the

7 Charter Party.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. They do not allow journalists to join

10 them.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. We wanted to join them. So we said we

13 weren't journalists, we said we were media activists,

14 and we have a kind of little ongoing struggle with

15 whether or not we should be allowed to join their

16 committee.

17 Q. So have you been allowed to join the

18 Charter Party?

19 A. Justin has and I have not.

20 Q. And he brought that about by changing his

21 label from journalist to media activist?

22 A. No, they say that we're journalists, and

23 we say that we're not, and it's just a little thing.

24 Q. Do you consider -- you are the operator of

25 a blog known as a -- I don't know whether you like

 9

1 the term blog or not, but --

2 A. I understand what you mean.

3 Q. -- indulge me. A blog known as the

4 Cincinnati Beacon, right?

5 A. I post to that blog, yes.

6 Q. Does that -- do you distinguish that from

7 actually operating the blog?

8 A. I'm not the only person who has the

9 ability to operate the blog.

10 Q. Who else does?

11 A. Justin can operate the blog.

12 Q. So do you and Justin determine what gets

13 posted onto the blog?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you do that by -- what's the process

16 by which you do that?

17 A. Informal.

18 Q. Do you talk about it?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. And do you consider the operation of the

21 blog part of your function as a media activist?

22 A. Sure.

23 Q. And what is the mission of the blog?

24 A. We've never articulated a mission for the

25 blog.
 10

1 Q. Well, what is your unarticulated mission

2 of the blog?

3 MR. GIAMPIETRO: If there is one.

4 A. I don't know how to tell you my

5 unarticulated vision.

6 Q. Is there anything in particular that you

7 try to accomplish by operating the blog?

8 A. We write about, primarily, Cincinnati

9 politics.

10 Q. That's the main focus of the blog, of

11 Cincinnati Beacon?

12 A. The main focus, yes. Sometimes it goes

13 other places.

14 Q. Sure. And is there -- do you make any

15 money off of the blog?

16 A. Nope.

17 Q. What does it cost you to operate the blog?

18 A. A couple hundred dollars a year. Well,

19 let me specify. We have -- for example, had people

20 give donations to offset those costs.

21 Q. And tell me the process -- I'm completely

22 unaware, unfamiliar with the process for operating a

23 blog. This is an interactive blog, correct, where

24 you can post things on it and other people can post

25 things on it, and you can discuss -- have discussions

 11

1 with each other, correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What is the process for constructing that

4 type of website?

5 A. Purchasing a web domain and web server

6 space and installing software.

7 Q. Who did you purchase the web domain from?

8 A. The domain name?

9 Q. Yeah.

10 A. I don't remember. That was a couple

11 years -- year-and-a-half, two years ago.

12 Q. And the domain name is Cincinnati Beacon?

13 A. cincinnatibeacon.com, yeah.

14 Q. And the web -- the server space, from whom

15 is that purchased?

16 A. inmotion hosting.

17 Q. So does it involve just paying a fee to

18 inmotion hosting and they take care of all of the

19 technical aspects of the operation of the blog?

20 A. Well, I pay them a fee to be able to have

21 space.

22 Q. For you to put a message on the blog, an

23 article, whatever it may be, what do you have to do?

24 A. I just go to my computer, log on and post

25 it.
 12

1 Q. And for other people to put a message or

2 to post something?

3 A. There's a comment form.

4 Q. So can anybody go on to comment?

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. If I wanted to go on there I could

7 comment?

8 A. Yeah.

9 Q. All I need is a what, access to --

10 A. The Internet.

11 Q. Do you know -- inmotion hosting is the

12 name of the company?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. Do you know where it's located?

15 A. California.

16 Q. And how long have you had the

17 California -- the Cincinnati Beacon?

18 A. How long have I owned the name?

19 Q. Yeah.

20 A. I don't own the name right now.

21 Q. Who does?

22 A. Justin.

23 Q. How long have you -- how long has Justin,

24 if you know, owned the name?

25 A. I don't know.
 13

1 Q. How long have you had this website?

2 A. The website has existed since, I want to

3 say, 2005. I'm not too good with dates.

4 Q. Did it have any other names?

5 A. Did -- I mean, I had a website a couple

6 years before, a couple years ago before this one, but

7 this is the only name that this website has had.

8 Q. What was your other website?

9 A. Dean of Cincinnati.

10 Q. And is that still in operation?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did you shut that down once you started

13 Cincinnati Beacon?

14 A. Kind of.

15 Q. Did you own Dean of Cincinnati, that

16 domain?

17 A. I can't remember if I did or if my friend,

18 Steve, did because back then I had a friend who was

19 setting up all the stuff for me.

20 Q. What is Steve's last name?

21 A. Scott.

22 Q. And did you have a server site through

23 a company?

24 A. He took care of all of that.

25 Q. Do you know where he purchased this site

 14

1 from?

2 A. Nope.

3 Q. You posted on that site?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Did you control what entered that site?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Do you control what enters -- you and

8 Justin control what enters the Cincinnati Beacon?

9 A. Right now, yes. Justin has not always

10 controlled what enters, but he does now.

11 Q. How long did you operate the website, the

12 Dean of Cincinnati?

13 A. The old website that doesn't exist?

14 Q. Um-hum.

15 A. A year maybe.

16 Q. So sometime in '04?

17 A. That sounds about right.

18 Q. Where do you live?

19 A. Kennedy Heights.

20 Q. What's your address?

21 A. 3816 Iona Avenue.

22 Q. Are you married?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And your wife's name?

25 A. Antoinette.
 15

1 Q. And does Antoinette -- is she employed?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What does she do?

4 A. Customer service.

5 Q. Does she work in Cincinnati?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Do you have any children?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. How many?

10 A. One.

11 Q. How old?

12 A. Four.

13 Q. Have you ever been to Illinois?

14 A. Years ago.

15 Q. When?

16 A. Mid '90s.

17 Q. What brought you to Illinois?

18 A. Grateful Dead concert.

19 Q. Where was it?

20 A. Soldier Field.

21 Q. Before Jerry Garcia died?

22 A. It was the second-to-last show.

23 Q. Really. Were you a Deadhead? Did you

24 follow the Grateful Dead around?

25 A. Just a couple times. I don't know if I

 16

1 would consider myself -- I don't want to enter into

2 the official record that I'm a Deadhead.

3 Q. So you went there just for the purposes of

4 seeing the concert, and you left?

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. How did you first become interested in the

7 Save-A-Life Foundation?

8 A. I had been following the teaching of the

9 Heimlich maneuver.

10 Q. And in what way were you following the

11 teaching of the Heimlich maneuver?

12 A. I was interested in it being taught for

13 things like drowning.

14 Q. Okay. What sparked this interest?

15 A. The Heimlichs are a local -- big, local

16 name and --

17 Q. So just because of their presence here in

18 Cincinnati you became interested in using the

19 Heimlich maneuver for drowning?

20 A. No, I had first heard about it when

21 someone had e-mailed me concerning that medical

22 story.

23 Q. Do you know who e-mailed you about that?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Who?
 17

1 A. Peter Heimlich.

2 Q. And were you the Dean of Cincinnati at

3 that time, were you operating as the Dean of

4 Cincinnati?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you remember when that occurred?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Do you -- what was the e-mail that you

9 received; what was the nature of it?

10 A. Just talking about questions about using

11 the maneuver for drowning and some of the health

12 risks it could pose.

13 Q. Was this something that Peter Heimlich

14 forwarded to you, an article that appeared elsewhere

15 or was it something he wrote?

16 A. I mean, I can't even begin to remember the

17 precise details of years' old e-mails. I just

18 remember that I became familiar with those stories

19 years ago, and the Heimlichs were kind of, you know,

20 big here politically, so it sparked my interest.

21 Q. Did you have any political interest in

22 any way in any of the Heimlich family?

23 A. I don't understand what you mean.

24 Q. You understand Phil Heimlich is a local

25 political figure?
 18

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did you have any interest one way or the

3 other in his success or failure as a --

4 A. I don't know what you mean when you say

5 "interest." Are you just saying in my mind or did I

6 have something at stake in it?

7 Q. Well, let me rephrase it. Well, let me

8 ask you that question. Did you have something at

9 stake in his political history?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Was that ever the subject of any of your

12 topics that you wrote or posted on either Dean of

13 Cincinnati or Cincinnati Beacon?

14 A. Did I ever write about Phil Heimlich?

15 Q. Yeah.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you ever support any candidates that

18 were running against him?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Who would you have supported that was

21 running against him?

22 A. David Pepper.

23 Q. What is your connection -- do you have any

24 connection to David Pepper, other than he is a --

25 A. What do you mean when you say

 19

1 "connection"?

2 Q. Do you know him?

3 A. Certainly I have met him.

4 Q. Is he a friend of yours?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Under what circumstances have you met him?

7 A. You know, he's out at a political event,

8 and I see him, shake his hand.

9 Q. And did you support him in his campaign

10 against Phil Heimlich?

11 A. Yeah.

12 Q. In what way?

13 A. Well, I mean, I had a David Pepper

14 t-shirt. I think I had a David Pepper yard sign in

15 my yard.

16 Q. Contribute any money to his campaign?

17 A. I don't think so.

18 Q. Did you write anything, either favorable

19 to him or critical of Phil Heimlich, on your website?

20 A. I wrote about the race.

21 THE WITNESS: Can I ask you something?

22 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Sure.

23 THE WITNESS: Privately.

24 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Sure.

25 (Off the record.)

 20

1 MR. GIAMPIETRO: I understand you need to

2 ask some background questions in order to get

3 at what you're entitled to ask, but this

4 deposition is limited to jurisdictional issues,

5 and I think we're getting a little far afield

6 from that, so if you could please keep it

7 confined to the jurisdictional issues, we'll

8 all get out of here a lot faster.

9 MR. DiCIANNI: You're right, this is

10 background to jurisdictional issues.

11 Q. As I understand your testimony, you became

12 familiar or interested in the Save-A-Life Foundation

13 after you received an e-mail from Peter Heimlich that

14 discussed the Heimlich maneuver; is that fair to say?

15 A. I don't quite like how you've put that.

16 Q. Well, how did you first become aware of

17 the Save-A-Life Foundation?

18 A. I don't even remember.

19 Q. And what was your first involvement in

20 any way with the Save-A-Life Foundation?

21 A. My first involvement with them?

22 Q. Yes.

23 A. I don't know. I imagine I sent a letter

24 curious about the facts that I had read in a news

25 article somewhere.
 21

1 Q. What was the news article?

2 A. I mean, this stuff is going back like two

3 years at this point.

4 Q. Okay. To the best of your memory.

5 A. Yeah, I think news articles about like

6 Carol Spizzirri's training and exactly what it was

7 they were teaching, and I think Dr. Heimlich was on

8 the board at the time.

9 Q. So that's how you became somewhat familiar

10 with the Save-A-Life Foundation?

11 A. Um-hum.

12 Q. And you then began -- did you then begin

13 to make contact with the Save-A-Life Foundation?

14 A. I sent them a couple of e-mails.

15 Q. For what purpose?

16 A. I think I was asking a question about

17 the -- verifying a credential.

18 Q. Okay. Would this have been in your role

19 as a media activist?

20 A. I don't know.

21 Q. Would it have been in your role as a

22 blogger?

23 A. I mean it's -- how about this, it's in my

24 role as a curious person, and I also happen to have a

25 website.
 22

1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 was marked for

2 identification.)

3 Q. I'm showing you what's been marked as Haap

4 Exhibit No. 1 for identification. Is this a

5 communication from you to a representative of the

6 Save-A-Life Foundation?

7 A. Looks like it.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. I'm reading it right now.

10 Q. All right. This is something you've sent

11 to Rita Mullins, right?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. And you sent it to Rita Mullins in

14 Palatine, Illinois, right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Over the Internet, correct?

17 A. Through e-mail, yeah.

18 Q. And you say in there, last week I sent

19 e-mails to Carol Spizzirri and Ed Stare at the

20 Save-A-Life Foundation, correct?

21 A. Um-hum.

22 Q. And then you ask her for a list of all

23 medical experts, along with their medical and

24 educational agencies who have reviewed it and

25 reviewed Save-A-Life's programs, right?

 23

1 A. Um-hum.

2 Q. This is something --

3 A. I'm sorry, I should have said yes out

4 loud. I don't know how you type --

5 Q. Yes, that's something -- you do need to

6 answer, you know, verbally.

7 You carbon copied Carol Spizzirri at

8 Save-A-Life, right?

9 A. Looks like it.

10 Q. Do you know what it was that led you to

11 send this e-mail to Save-A-Life?

12 A. Curiosity, just trying to find out some

13 information.

14 Q. This was after you became familiar with --

15 after Peter Heimlich's e-mail to you discussing the

16 Heimlich maneuver?

17 A. I probably first e-mailed Peter, yeah,

18 long before this.

19 Q. So your communications with Peter Heimlich

20 would have occurred long before this e-mail was ever

21 sent?

22 A. I mean, yeah, I've --

23 Q. Did you know Rita Mullins to be on the

24 board of directors of Save-A-Life?

25 A. That or chair or something like that.

 24

1 Q. And how did you become familiar with

2 Save-A-Life Foundation in order to send this e-mail

3 to her?

4 A. Didn't we already talk about that?

5 Q. No. No.

6 A. I mean, Dr. Heimlich was on their board,

7 and they were teaching -- if memory serves, they were

8 teaching some Heimlich-related stuff when they go out

9 in their general whatever it is they do.

10 Q. And what was your interest in wanting to

11 know who their medical experts were?

12 A. To see who would have verified what it was

13 they were teaching.

14 Q. Why were you interested in that?

15 A. I don't know why I'm interested in things

16 that I find interesting, to tell you the truth. I

17 don't know why some people are interested in

18 baseball, but they are. I don't think I understand.

19 Q. Well, this seems to be a very odd

20 interest. You talked about your media activism and

21 your blog as primarily focused on Cincinnati

22 politics. I'm curious as to why -- how Save-A-Life

23 Foundation came into this?

24 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, he just told you

25 that Dr. Heimlich is very prominent and active

 25

1 in this area, and that Dr. Heimlich was on the

2 board. That's the connection.

3 MR. DiCIANNI: Well, he didn't say that.

4 A. I thought I said that a couple times.

5 MR. GIAMPIETRO: He said it at least twice

6 so far.

7 Q. Okay. So because Henry Heimlich was on

8 the board of Save-A-Life Foundation, you became

9 familiar with the Save-A-Life Foundation, correct?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. And that's what led you to question them

12 about their medical experts, correct?

13 A. Um-hum.

14 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 was marked for

15 identification.)

16 Q. Let me ask you to take a look at Exhibit

17 No. 2.

18 A. Uh-huh.

19 Q. This is a follow-up to a previous

20 communication that you had sent to Carol Spizzirri?

21 A. Looks like it.

22 Q. You refer to a June 14th e-mail.

23 A. Okay. Yes.

24 Q. And that's actually at the bottom of

25 the -- there's actually a June 12th e-mail that you

 26

1 had sent to Ed Stare at the Save-A-Life Foundation --

2 A. Okay.

3 Q. -- correct?

4 A. Looks like it.

5 Q. And when you didn't get a response, you

6 sent another e-mail to Carol Spizzirri.

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. Is that correct?

9 A. Yeah.

10 Q. You also faxed this to Carol Spizzirri?

11 A. Looks like it.

12 Q. And you were aware that that fax was to a

13 location in Illinois?

14 A. The thought never would have occurred to

15 me.

16 Q. Well, okay, but you knew Save-A-Life

17 Foundation was located in Illinois?

18 A. I did know it was located in Illinois.

19 Q. And what is your purpose in asking for

20 this follow-up information?

21 A. Well, to find out if I could see a

22 verification.

23 Q. I see. And is this in connection -- this

24 is in connection with your operation of the Dean of

25 Cincinnati -- I'm sorry, the Cincinnati Beacon?

 27

1 A. I mean, insofar as I sign my name as to

2 the fact that I have that.

3 Q. Right. I mean, you're doing this research

4 for purposes of reporting on it and posting it on

5 your website, correct?

6 A. I mean, I have made a couple posts on the

7 website, as I see, you know, because I can see them

8 over there.

9 Q. Right. Right. But you're making this

10 inquiry of this organization for purposes of

11 reporting on it and posting it on your website?

12 A. For potential posting. There's plenty of

13 times I've sent e-mails to individuals and asked

14 questions and then nothing has come of it, so --

15 Q. So you're seeking this information because

16 if you found it to be newsworthy, you would report it

17 on your website or discuss it on your website, right?

18 A. Yeah, I might.

19 Q. You continue to operate -- you continue to

20 call yourself the Dean of Cincinnati, even after you

21 changed your website name to Cincinnati Beacon,

22 right?

23 A. Yeah.

24 Q. Did you have any communications with Arla

25 Capel or Steve Rensberry at the Edwardsville

 28

1 Intelligencer?

2 A. I think a couple e-mails.

3 Q. How did you become familiar with them?

4 A. Didn't Arla have a story she wrote?

5 Q. I'm asking you.

6 A. I'm trying to remember.

7 Q. Is that how you became a familiar with it?

8 A. I think so.

9 Q. How did you find that article?

10 A. I don't remember.

11 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 was marked for

12 identification.)

13 Q. Do you recognize the document, Exhibit No.

14 3?

15 A. Let me look at it for a second. I think

16 so.

17 Q. You received that from Save-A-Life

18 Foundation?

19 A. I guess. I mean --

20 Q. And this was a -- answers to your

21 questions --

22 A. I don't see my e-mail in the "To" line.

23 It says it's from Sharon McGill from Vince Davis.

24 Q. Did that get forwarded on to you?

25 A. I'm not sure.

 29

1 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 was marked for

2 identification.)

3 Q. Let me ask you to take a look at Exhibit

4 No. 4. Can you identify that document?

5 A. It looks like I got this, and then wrote

6 this?

7 Q. Yes. Is that the way it looks to you?

8 A. Yeah, okay.

9 Q. All right. And this is your follow-up to

10 the response that you got complaining that you

11 hadn't -- that it didn't answer your questions,

12 right?

13 A. I wouldn't say complain, but okay.

14 Q. Is that what it is?

15 A. Looks like it, yeah.

16 Q. All right. And what was your purpose in

17 sending that?

18 A. To get an answer to the question.

19 Q. Once again, for posting on your blog?

20 A. I don't know. Like I've said, I don't

21 always post everything that I ask people questions

22 about. I send lots of e-mails.

23 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 was marked for

24 identification.)

25 Q. Ask you to take a look at Exhibit No. 5.

 30

1 Do you recognize that document?

2 A. I just want to make sure we're not doing

3 duplicates again. Okay.

4 Q. Is this a communication you sent to Rita

5 Mullins at Save-A-Life Foundation?

6 A. Seems to be.

7 Q. And, again, you're saying that you wanted

8 information about the Save-A-Life Foundation,

9 correct?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. And you're questioning Carol Spizzirri's

12 credentials and their medical expertise, correct?

13 A. Right, because no one would ever -- no one

14 ever wrote back.

15 Q. Why are you sending a carbon copy to

16 Michael Chertoff at the Department of Homeland

17 Security, Mayor Guido of Dearborn, Michigan, and

18 somebody at the Intelligencer?

19 A. Well, I mean ultimately, if someone

20 refuses to answer what seems to me to be a

21 straightforward question, I just start to become more

22 curious.

23 Q. But why would you carbon copy the

24 Department of Homeland Security? Let's take them one

25 at a time. Why would you carbon copy the Department

 31

1 of Homeland Security?

2 A. Because they're an affiliate of Citizen

3 Corps, a division of the Department of Homeland

4 Security, so they were mentioned in the letter.

5 Q. What was your concern about the Citizen

6 Corps affiliation?

7 A. Well, that's a division of the Department

8 of Homeland Security.

9 Q. I understand. Is this another curiosity?

10 A. Yeah, I mean, if you look, the cc list is

11 all relative to people mentioned in the letter. It's

12 not like it's just a random sort of a thing.

13 Q. Okay. And you also carbon copied Michael

14 Guido, is that because he's mentioned in the letter?

15 He's the president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

16 A. Oh, I remember something about the U.S.

17 Conference of Mayors, but I see that he's not

18 mentioned in the letter, unless Rita Mullins is a

19 member of them, I'm not sure.

20 Q. If your interest is in obtaining

21 information from Save-A-Life Foundation, my question

22 is why are you carbon copying --

23 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Counsel, this is way, way

24 beyond the issue of jurisdiction. You're

25 getting into apparently what you think might be

 32

1 the substance of what Mr. Haap may or may not

2 have written. This is limited to jurisdiction.

3 MR. DiCIANNI: I understand.

4 MR. GIAMPIETRO: This is not questions

5 having to do with jurisdiction, so let's limit

6 it to that.

7 Q. You did carbon copy your questions that

8 were questioning the medical credentials and the

9 Citizen Corps affiliation and their medical expertise

10 to the Department of Homeland Security and the

11 president of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, correct?

12 A. Looks like it, yeah.

13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 was marked for

14 identification.)

15 Q. Let me show you what's marked as Exhibit

16 No. 6. Is that a Freedom of Information Act request

17 under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act that

18 you've made on an Illinois mayor?

19 A. Looks like it, yeah.

20 Q. Did you research the Illinois Freedom of

21 Information Act before sending this?

22 A. I don't remember.

23 Q. Was it your belief that the Freedom of

24 Information Act was applicable to Save-A-Life

25 foundation when you sent it?

 33

1 A. I would presume so, yeah.

2 Q. All right.

3 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 7 was marked for

4 identification.)

5 Q. Do you recognize that document?

6 A. Yeah, looks like something I accompanied

7 this with.

8 Q. An e-mail that you sent to the vice

9 chairwoman of the Save-A-Life Foundation, or who you

10 thought to be the vice chairwoman of the Save-A-Life

11 Foundation?

12 A. Yeah.

13 Q. And this shows that you've e-mailed, faxed

14 and mailed your Freedom of Information Act request,

15 correct?

16 A. Yeah.

17 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 was marked for

18 identification.)

19 Q. Can you identify Exhibit No. 8, please?

20 A. Oh, yeah, I remember that.

21 Q. And what is it?

22 A. I think this was someone who didn't want

23 me sending an e-mail, and so I apologized, wondered

24 where I should have sent it.

25 Q. This is an Illinois attorney who was

 34

1 advising you to reroute your Freedom of Information

2 Act request?

3 A. It hadn't occurred to me that the person

4 was an attorney, but if you say so.

5 Q. But that's what this is?

6 A. I don't know. The person doesn't identify

7 themselves as an attorney, so I don't know if it's an

8 attorney or not.

9 Q. This is direction from Ms. Boudreau for

10 you to reroute your Freedom of Information Act

11 request, right?

12 A. No, this is a letter from me. I don't

13 know what you're talking about with a letter from a

14 lawyer --

15 Q. This is a response letter from Miss

16 Boudreau, in which she directed you to reroute

17 rewrote your --

18 A. Yeah.

19 Q. -- Freedom of Information Act request?

20 A. Uh-huh. Yes.

21 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 was marked for

22 identification)

23 Q. Is that your writing?

24 A. Yeah.

25 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 10 was marked for

 35

1 identification.)

2 Q. And would you describe this, please, or

3 identify it?

4 A. What?

5 Q. Would you identify this document?

6 A. The envelope or the letter?

7 Q. No. Well, No. 10.

8 A. Okay. Looks like -- I don't know --

9 what's this? I don't recognize that off the top of

10 my head.

11 Q. What are you referring to?

12 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Referring to the second

13 page.

14 A. That doesn't -- I don't recognize that.

15 Q. Yeah, just pages one and two.

16 A. Oh, so, okay. Yeah, looks like -- as you

17 can see, there's like two questions that -- three

18 questions that nobody answers.

19 Q. Additional questions that you're posing to

20 the Save-A-Life Foundation, correct?

21 A. I don't know what you mean by

22 "additional." I just said it looks to me like at the

23 heart of this there's like the same couple questions.

24 Q. And you sent this by e-mail, fax and mail,

25 correct?
 36

1 A. Looks like it.

2 Q. Did you send any communications to any

3 news organizations in Illinois regarding the

4 Save-A-Life Foundation?

5 A. Well, we've already talked about the

6 e-mails to the Edwards (sic) Intelligencer.

7 Q. Other than the Edwards (sic)

8 Intelligencer, did you send any communications to any

9 news organizations in Illinois about the Save-A-Life

10 Foundation?

11 A. Not that I recall.

12 Q. Did you send anything to -- you're

13 familiar with WGN television?

14 A. I remember talking to them about the

15 Heimlich maneuver. I don't remember if I talked to

16 them about SALF.

17 Q. Did you have a conversation with Dina Bair

18 at WGN?

19 A. That name rings a bell.

20 Q. Did you discuss Save-A-Life Foundation?

21 A. I don't remember.

22 Q. What do you remember about your

23 discussions with Dina Bair at WGN?

24 A. I remember that -- do you have the story

25 that I had?
 37

1 Q. I'm not sure. Let me just find out what

2 your memory is.

3 A. There was some report about the Heimlich

4 maneuver, and I -- I don't know, it probably was a

5 maneuver for drowning story or something.

6 Q. And to your memory, your discussions with

7 Dina Bair were related to the Heimlich maneuver?

8 A. I don't remember discussions with Dina

9 Blair. The name Dina Bair sounds familiar to me. I

10 don't know that I ever -- I never talked to anybody

11 on the phone. I may have exchanged an e-mail with

12 Dina Bair, but I just recognize the name is all I'm

13 really saying.

14 Q. What about -- let's just talk about any

15 reporters from WGN-TV in Chicago.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Did you have any communications with

18 anybody from WGN in Chicago?

19 A. Probably regarding what I just told you

20 about.

21 Q. And what was the nature of those?

22 A. Well, I thought I just went over that.

23 Q. You said the Heimlich maneuver?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Why would you be talking to WGN about the

 38

1 Heimlich maneuver?

2 A. I believe they did a story about the

3 Heimlich maneuver in drowning, I think I said.

4 Q. And what was your communication with them;

5 what do you remember?

6 A. The name Dina Bair sounds familiar. I

7 remember -- I think I may have sent them a message

8 about a story they had run or something like that.

9 Q. For what purpose?

10 A. They did a maneuver for drowning story,

11 and the maneuver for drowning is highly

12 controversial.

13 Q. So you were pointing that out to them?

14 A. Maybe.

15 Q. Did you have any contact with -- you know

16 the name Chuck Goudie?

17 A. Um-hum.

18 Q. Chuck Goudie is a reporter for ABC7 in

19 Chicago?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did you have any contact with Chuck Goudie

22 prior to his report?

23 A. No.

24 Q. None whatsoever?

25 A. Nope.
 39

1 Q. Did you ever meet him?

2 A. Nope.

3 Q. Did you ever send anything to him?

4 A. Nope.

5 Q. Did you ever receive anything from him?

6 A. No.

7 Q. How did you first find out about his

8 report?

9 A. Came on-line.

10 Q. What do you mean it "came on-line"?

11 A. News report goes on-line. You Google news

12 alerts and everything.

13 Q. So you saw it on a Google news alert?

14 A. I don't remember how it came to me. It

15 was on-line, like immediately.

16 Q. All right. So you saw it on some on-line

17 news --

18 A. I think I saw it --

19 Q. -- site?

20 A. I think I saw it at the Chicago ABC7 news

21 page. They have video posted.

22 Q. How did you find out it was going to be

23 there?

24 A. I found it after it was posted.

25 Q. How?
 40

1 A. I don't know. It became available

2 on-line.

3 Q. Did you -- were you tracking news stories

4 about Save-A-Life Foundation at that time?

5 A. To tell you the truth, sometimes I just go

6 to Google news and type in things, see what's going

7 on. I mean, I don't know. This is -- you're asking

8 me basically did I -- how did I find out about a news

9 story that featured a local connection a year ago. I

10 mean, I don't know, it was widely available.

11 Q. Did you -- well --

12 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 11 was marked for

13 identification.)

14 Q. Let me ask you to just look at the first

15 article.

16 A. Um-hum.

17 Q. It's dated March 23rd, 2007, and it is a

18 letter to Joshua Robbins at Serafin & Associates in

19 Chicago, correct?

20 A. Um-hum.

21 Q. This was written by you, correct?

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. What brought about this letter?

24 A. Let me read it. Well, it looks like a

25 follow-up based on some stuff that was in the Chuck

 41

1 Goudie report.

2 Q. Well, the article itself -- you've taken

3 out an article from the Manchester Journal about a

4 Save-A-Life program that's going to take place in

5 Vermont, correct?

6 A. Yeah, there's a quotation from an article

7 about something happening in Vermont, yes.

8 Q. And what led you to contact Joshua

9 Robbins?

10 A. I don't -- I barely remember his name.

11 Q. Well, he's listed as the contact person.

12 A. Yeah, I see that. I mean, it's --

13 Q. You wrote on your posting that for the

14 past year, the Cincinnati Beacon has been reporting

15 about the Save-A-Life Foundation and Dr. Henry

16 Heimlich of Cincinnati, until recently a long time

17 SALF board member; is that a true statement?

18 A. As far as I know.

19 Q. "Among other stories, we reported this

20 recent ABC-TV two-part report, 'The Maneuver,'"

21 correct?

22 A. You are reading from it, correct.

23 Q. Those are accurate statements, correct?

24 A. Well, I mean we did write about how they

25 did that report.

 42

1 Q. Did you post that ABC report on your

2 website?

3 A. What do you mean, did I -- I don't know,

4 did I quote from it or something?

5 Q. Yeah.

6 A. Probably, I don't remember. Do you have

7 it?

8 Q. Do I have what?

9 A. A copy of where I may have posted the

10 report on my website.

11 Q. I don't, no.

12 A. Then I guess I didn't.

13 Q. Why are you sending -- well, why are you

14 notifying Joshua Robbins who's just discussing a new

15 Save-A-Life program in Vermont?

16 A. Well, it looks like he's listed as the

17 contact.

18 Q. Right. Why are you sending him this

19 critical report of Save-A-Life Foundation?

20 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, if you read it,

21 he's asking him questions at the end. He's not

22 just sending him the report so --

23 MR. DiCIANNI: Right.

24 MR. GIAMPIETRO: -- your question is based

25 on the wrong premise.

 43

1 Q. What's your interest there?

2 A. I thought that that's the same question

3 you keep asking me.

4 Q. Um-hum?

5 A. I mean do I really have to keep answering

6 the same question?

7 Q. Well, yeah.

8 THE WITNESS: Do I really have to keep

9 answering the --

10 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, to the extent

11 that -- first of all, it doesn't have anything

12 to do with jurisdiction.

13 MR. DiCIANNI: Well, it does.

14 MR. GIAMPIETRO: No, it doesn't. I

15 doesn't have anything to do with it. I mean,

16 if you were --

17 MR. DiCIANNI: Strike that. Wait, wait,

18 let me just -- sending a defamatory or

19 notifying a benefactor of Save-A-Life in

20 Illinois about a defamatory report --

21 A. What's the defamatory report?

22 MR. DiCIANNI: -- isn't potentially a

23 tortious act in Illinois. Well, that's up for

24 the judge to decide, but it has to do with

25 jurisdiction.
 44

1 MR. GIAMPIETRO: No, it doesn't. You can

2 ask him about, did he, in fact, write this, did

3 he send it to Illinois, that's fine, that has

4 to do with jurisdiction.

5 MR. DiCIANNI: Right. Okay.

6 MR. GIAMPIETRO: You're entitled to ask

7 him that. You can't ask him why he did it --

8 MR. DiCIANNI: Sure I can. Oh, sure I

9 can.

10 MR. GIAMPIETRO: -- or any of that other

11 stuff. It doesn't have anything to do with

12 jurisdiction.

13 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Explain to me how it

14 does.

15 MR. DiCIANNI: That will be discussed in

16 our briefs.

17 MR. GIAMPIETRO: No, no, no. We're not

18 going to play hide the ball here. If you've

19 got a basis for asking the question that

20 legitimately goes to jurisdiction, that's fine,

21 but to play games with me --

22 MR. DiCIANNI: I'm not going to allow him

23 to tailor his testimony so that he can get

24 around -- we all know what's going on here, and

25 to the extent that I'm telling you my theory of

 45

1 jurisdiction, all that does is allow him to

2 tailor his testimony. All right.

3 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, that's baloney.

4 MR. DiCIANNI: Well, let's just back up a

5 second. Let me ask you another question.

6 MR. GIAMPIETRO: That's gobbeldy-gook.

7 Q. You quote in this communication with

8 Joshua Robbins from the Goudie report.

9 A. Did you just say the Goudie report was

10 defamatory?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. I was not aware that anybody was suing

13 Chuck Goudie for defamation.

14 Q. Well, you quote from the Goudie report,

15 correct?

16 A. Yeah, but you said that -- you also

17 said -- I guess what I'm disagreeing with is I heard

18 you say that I quoted from a defamatory report. It's

19 not my understanding that this report is by -- by

20 Chuck Goudie is defamatory. You're confusing me.

21 Q. All right. Let me rephrase the question.

22 You quote from the Goudie report, correct?

23 A. Um-hum.

24 Q. And you send that quotation to Joshua

25 Robbins, who you knew to be a representative of

 46

1 this -- or at least a contact person for this Vermont

2 program, correct?

3 A. Yeah.

4 Q. And you knew him to be located in

5 Illinois, correct?

6 A. I knew Josh Robbins to be located in

7 Illinois?

8 Q. Yes.

9 A. I never would have thought about it.

10 Q. Sure you did.

11 A. I mean, up at the top it says his address.

12 Q. Yeah.

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. All right. And then you asked for these

15 questions, correct? You have these questions on the

16 bottom, correct?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. And then you cc'd John Donleavy, VELCO

19 president, the headmaster of the school, Arnie

20 Duncan, superintendent of Chicago schools, and then

21 Robert Baratz, correct, and Chuck Goudie, correct?

22 A. Um-hum.

23 Q. Had you had any communication with Chuck

24 Goudie up until this point?

25 A. No. I think after his report there's a

 47

1 couple letters that I copied to him. I never heard

2 back from him.

3 Q. Why were you copying Chuck Goudie?

4 A. Because I mentioned his report.

5 Q. When did you first become involved or

6 get -- have any interaction with Robert Baratz?

7 A. Probably when The Cincinnati Enquirer ran

8 an infographic suggesting that since it was the

9 beginning of pool season, people should perform the

10 Heimlich maneuver if someone was drowning, and I

11 remember he wrote -- I think he wrote a letter to The

12 Enquirer, and there were some --

13 Q. And that would have been approximately

14 when?

15 A. 2005? I don't know.

16 Q. All right. Go to the next report, dated

17 February 23rd, 2007. You discuss in there that you

18 sent a letter to Dr. Robert Amler and Dr. Sherlita

19 Amler, who are both SALF board members, correct?

20 A. Where are you?

21 Q. On the bottom of the February 23rd, 2007.

22 A. Oh, yeah, I see it right there.

23 Q. You did that, correct?

24 A. Yeah, I see that.

25 Q. You did send that letter, correct?

 48

1 A. Yeah, it looks like it.

2 Q. All right. Go down to the November 20th,

3 2006 report or issue of the Cincinnati Beacon.

4 A. Are these in chronological order?

5 Q. They may be.

6 A. Well --

7 MR. GIAMPIETRO: It's the sixth one down.

8 THE WITNESS: Oh, I take the thing off.

9 A. Dear Doctor -- the website of Chicago --

10 open letter to Henry Heimlich.

11 Q. Yeah. That is a posting on your website,

12 correct?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. Is everything that's in this package of

15 materials a posting on your website?

16 A. I mean, if you printed it from my web

17 page, then yes, it is a posting from my website.

18 Q. Okay, and that's everything that's in this

19 package marked as Exhibit 11?

20 A. I don't know. I have not yet looked at

21 everything in the packet. I guess that's a weird

22 question for me. If you printed it from the web

23 page, then it's on the web page.

24 Q. Well, all I want is a yes or no.

25 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, how long do you

 49

1 want to sit here as he compares it to

2 everything that's on his website? He can't

3 possibly answer that and you know it.

4 MR. DiCIANNI: All he has to do is look

5 through it and say yes, it is, and no, it

6 isn't.

7 A. It looks to be. Unless I'm required to

8 sit here and read hundreds of pages.

9 Q. No, I'm not asking you to do that.

10 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 12 was marked for

11 identification.)

12 Q. This is a posting on your website,

13 correct?

14 A. Looks like it.

15 Q. And it says here, I'll just read it, "This

16 summer, we received information about SALF

17 (Save-A-Life Foundation) - an organization with

18 connections to local quack Dr. Henry Heimlich. We

19 began some investigating, sending emails to various

20 parties in an attempt to establish the credentials of

21 SALF's founder, Carol Spizzirri. (That's Carol

22 pictured to the right, with Dr. Henry Heimlich and

23 his wife Jane.)" Let me stop right there.

24 That's a true statement, you started

25 investigating and sending various e-mails to various

 50

1 parties?

2 A. Yeah. It has a little bit of hyperbole to

3 it maybe.

4 Q. What's the hyperbole?

5 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Well, wait a minute.

6 Explain to me again what this has to do with

7 jurisdiction. He posted it, okay, fine. You

8 can't ask him about the contents of it because

9 then we get into a deposition on the merits of

10 the case, and that's exactly what the judge

11 said you could not do.

12 MR. DiCIANNI: Okay. All right.

13 MR. GIAMPIETRO: So you want to stay

14 talking about jurisdiction, let's talk about

15 jurisdiction.

16 MR. DiCIANNI: This has to do with

17 jurisdiction.

18 MR. GIAMPIETRO: No, it doesn't, and you

19 know darn well it doesn't.

20 MR. DiCIANNI: Do you have an objection?

21 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Yeah, I have an

22 objection.

23 MR. DiCIANNI: Then make an objection.

24 MR. GIAMPIETRO: The objection is you're

25 going well beyond what the court has allowed

 51

1 you to do.

2 Q. You said, "We began some investigating,

3 sending various e-mails to various parties"?

4 A. I think we reviewed them.

5 Q. Are those all the e-mails you sent to

6 parties regarding this Save-A-Life investigation?

7 A. Unless you have others that you'd like to

8 ask me about.

9 Q. Well, I don't. Are there others?

10 A. That's more than I can remember that you

11 showed me.

12 Q. All right. So then you go on to say,

13 "Naturally, no one in Cincinnati's corporate news

14 wanted to touch the story - so our information was

15 forwarded to Chicago, where SALF is headquartered.

16 Last night, Chicago's ABC I-Team launched their first

17 report about SALF, entitled 'The Maneuver.'" Who did

18 you send information to in Chicago about SALF?

19 A. Huh?

20 Q. Huh? What don't you understand about the

21 question?

22 A. I mean, are you referring to the line that

23 says, "So our information was forwarded to Chicago"?

24 Q. Yes.

25 A. Uh-huh. That doesn't say that I sent any

 52

1 information to anyone in Chicago.

2 Q. What did you mean when you said that? Did

3 you write that line?

4 A. Yes, I did write that line.

5 Q. What did you mean by it?

6 A. Hyperbole.

7 Q. What does that mean?

8 A. I do stuff like that all the time. Well,

9 I had some information --

10 Q. Yeah.

11 A. -- and then it showed up somewhere else,

12 so let's just have an ego about it.

13 Q. What does that mean?

14 A. Which part of it are you confused about?

15 Q. "So our information was forwarded to

16 Chicago, where SALF is headquartered." The

17 information -- let's break it down.

18 A. Um-hum.

19 Q. The information that you're referring to

20 there would be what you discovered during your

21 so-called investigation, correct?

22 A. Just information about what's been going

23 on. It's -- I mean, when I wrote that, I'm not being

24 hyperspecific and you are inferring that I am.

25 Q. All right. What information in that line,

 53

1 "so our information," what information are you

2 referring to?

3 A. Nothing in particular. Can I answer by --

4 let me answer by example.

5 Q. No, no, no. Let me back up. You say

6 "information was forwarded." We'll do this

7 backwards.

8 A. Um-hum.

9 Q. You say "information was forwarded." What

10 was forwarded?

11 A. How am I supposed to know?

12 Q. You wrote this.

13 A. I just told you, it's just kind of ego

14 stuff. I've done stuff like that on plenty of other

15 stories.

16 Q. So you're saying this is a lie?

17 A. Let me ask you this: Here's what I think.

18 You think that I took information and made a little

19 package and sent it somewhere. I did not do that.

20 Q. I'm trying to find out what you did do.

21 You say right here in your website, "our information

22 was forwarded to Chicago, where SALF is

23 headquartered."

24 A. Uh-hmm.

25 Q. Is that a true statement or is that a lie?

 54

1 THE WITNESS: Can I ask you a question?

2 Q. Well, not while the question is pending.

3 THE WITNESS: Is that true?

4 MR. DiCIANNI: Yes, it is.

5 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Go ahead, just answer it

6 the best way you can. Did you send any

7 information to anybody.

8 THE WITNESS: But he's asking me -- it's

9 like a false analogy. It's like a logical

10 fallacy. I don't know how to answer logically

11 fallible questions.

12 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Answer the questions.

13 Did you send anything to anybody?

14 A. No, I did not package -- no, I did not

15 send information to anybody.

16 Q. So what did you -- what are you referring

17 to here on your website when you say "Our information

18 was forwarded to Chicago." What does that mean?

19 A. I thought I answered that already. It's

20 just ego. It's bravado. I offered to answer by

21 anecdote and you told me I wasn't allowed to do it.

22 Q. None of it made any sense.

23 A. Can I answer with another example?

24 Q. No, answer it.

25 A. I'm trying, and you're telling me I can't

 55

1 answer by anecdote.

2 Q. How does an anecdote answer the question

3 of what --

4 A. Maybe you should let me answer with an

5 anecdote --

6 (Off the record.)

7 Q. Go ahead, tell your anecdote.

8 A. Just a couple weeks ago, there was a story

9 on the I-Team about a local sheriff, and they had

10 some pictures of a parade. My website had the

11 pictures of the parade from a week ago. I like to

12 take credit for it. Hey, look, our stuff got

13 forwarded to the I-Team. Now, what do I mean by

14 that? I don't really mean anything. I'm just trying

15 to act like a big shot. Did I send anything to the

16 I-Team? No. Did the I-Team read my web page? I

17 have no idea. There's no way I could know that.

18 It's just blogger ego.

19 Q. Did your web page contain any articles up

20 to that point about the Save-A-Life Foundation?

21 A. I mean, haven't we -- did we look at any?

22 Q. Up until November 17th, 2006, before the

23 Goudie report was aired, did your website contain any

24 articles about the Save-A-Life Foundation?

25 A. Want me to check real quick?

 56

1 Q. I'm asking you.

2 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Do you remember?

3 A. I don't remember.

4 Q. Well, I'm not asking you to go through

5 them all. If I tell you that I didn't see any

6 articles about Save-A-Life prior to November 17th,

7 does that seem correct to you?

8 A. I don't know.

9 Q. So what you're saying here is you're

10 taking credit for the ABC7 report when, in fact, you

11 provided no information for that report?

12 A. If you're asking me if I provided

13 information to the ABC7 report, the answer is 100

14 percent no.

15 Q. So this is a false statement?

16 A. I guess so.

17 Q. Go on to page three of eight.

18 A. Are we in the same packet?

19 Q. Same document.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. You have -- up to the pages that precede

22 that, you discuss a number of different

23 communications you made with Save-A-Life and others

24 regarding various issues pertaining to Save-A-Life,

25 correct?
 57

1 A. Looks like it.

2 Q. And then you have at the bottom of page

3 three of eight, "The Pay-Off. Here is an excerpt

4 from the ABC7 I-Team investigation, where some of our

5 work finally paid off," correct?

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. And by that you meant that your work ended

8 up in ABC7's report, correct?

9 A. Well, there is nothing that I sent to

10 ABC7, so if you're asking me did my work end up

11 there, no. I did not send information to ABC7.

12 Q. Do you know if anybody took information

13 that you compiled or reported on and sent it to ABC7?

14 A. I don't know.

15 Q. Did you send any information about

16 Save-A-Life Foundation to any party whatsoever up

17 until --

18 A. Well, yeah, we've talked about --

19 Q. -- before the November 17th, Goudie

20 report?

21 A. I thought all of these e-mails you started

22 the deposition with were prior to that.

23 Q. Yeah, okay. Other than those, did you

24 forward any information about the Save-A-Life

25 Foundation to any other entity prior to November 17th

 58

1 of '06?

2 A. Other than what's here?

3 Q. Yes.

4 A. No, not that I can remember.

5 Q. Have you maintained all of your e-mail

6 communications for the last two years?

7 A. Probably not.

8 Q. Do you have a program that automatically

9 recycles them?

10 A. No. Just sometimes I go delete stuff.

11 Q. So if you didn't delete it, it would still

12 be there?

13 A. I guess.

14 Q. And what is your e-mail company?

15 A. Which account?

16 Q. Well, the one you use.

17 A. Well, Dean -- deanofcincinnati.com, which

18 I think a lot of these were -- looked to be from,

19 that's gone.

20 Q. Who was that with? Who was the --

21 A. You might recall I told you that when I

22 had that web page, my friend did it, and then for

23 some time after I switched to the new web page, he

24 still had it, so that the e-mail was working. And

25 then some time later, I don't exactly know when, he

 59

1 turned -- he got rid of it all, and so that e-mail is

2 now defunct. It will just bounce back if you try to

3 send something there.

4 Q. When did you switch over to -- what's your

5 current e-mail address?

6 A. Right now I'm using primarily

7 jasonhaap@gmail.com.

8 Q. When did you switch from deanofcincinnati,

9 et cetera, to a new one?

10 A. I mean, I've had lots of e-mails. I've

11 used fuse. I've used dean@cincinnatibeacon.com.

12 I've used -- they all kind of -- I don't know.

13 Q. So what's the answer?

14 A. What's the question?

15 Q. The question is, when did you switch from

16 deanofcincinnati to whatever your current --

17 A. Well, then, the next one would have been

18 dean -- I don't know.

19 Q. And who was your website provider or your

20 e-mail provider?

21 A. For the deanofcincinnati.com?

22 Q. For dean --

23 A. I told you, my friend.

24 Q. He took care of all of that?

25 A. I guess you don't know how an e-mail works

 60

1 when you own a domain.

2 Q. I have a very rudimentary knowledge of it.

3 A. I don't even know how it works. It just

4 goes there and you get it.

5 Q. Did you make any contact with the Chicago

6 Tribune about Save-A-Life Foundation?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. Did you ever contact the Comcast

9 Corporation?

10 A. That doesn't sound familiar. I don't

11 know.

12 Q. Did you contact Homeland Security, other

13 than those e-mails we looked at, where you've cc'd

14 the director of Homeland Security? Did you send any

15 other communications to Homeland Security?

16 A. I don't think so.

17 MR. GIAMPIETRO: I assume we're talking

18 about Save-A-Life, as opposed to --

19 Q. About Save-A-Life Foundation.

20 A. I don't remember.

21 Q. You don't remember that?

22 A. I do not remember doing that. I mean,

23 if -- I see a big stack of papers over there, and

24 then you keep asking me if I've done something, and

25 then you show me an article that I've written. I

 61

1 don't know. I don't know what you're about to pull

2 out of your stacks over there.

3 Q. I'm asking you the question. I'm not

4 asking you what's in my stack.

5 A. I don't remember.

6 Q. You don't remember if you sent information

7 to Homeland Security about Save-A-Life Foundation?

8 A. No, I don't remember.

9 Q. How could you not remember that?

10 A. It's very easy, I send lots of e-mails,

11 and I receive lots, and this is like old stuff.

12 Q. Did you have any communications from

13 Chicago Public Schools, anybody from Chicago Public

14 Schools about Save-A-Life?

15 A. Other than what we've already reviewed?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. I don't think so.

18 Q. Did you ever have any discussions with

19 anybody --

20 A. Do you mean on the phone?

21 Q. Yes.

22 A. No.

23 Q. Did you send e-mails to Chicago Public

24 Schools, other than what we've seen?

25 A. I don't think so.

 62

1 Q. Do you know somebody by the name of Julia

2 Richert?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Have you ever had any communications with

5 Julia Richert?

6 A. No.

7 Q. What about Damon Erdman?

8 A. Never heard of him, that I can remember.

9 Q. Did you send any communications to any

10 Illinois legislator about Save-A-Life Foundation?

11 A. Do you have a name?

12 Q. Anybody on the Illinois legislature.

13 A. I mean, don't -- what, legislature? Are

14 you talking like --

15 Q. Somebody who's in the general assembly in

16 the State of Illinois.

17 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Illinois state senator or

18 state representative.

19 A. Maybe. I don't know.

20 Q. Did you have any communications with a

21 person by the name of Gordon Pratt?

22 A. Uh-huh. I'm sorry. No.

23 Q. How about Derrick Crawford?

24 A. Nope.

25 Q. Did you have any communications with Chuck

 63

1 Goudie after you were served with this lawsuit?

2 A. I think he did a story about the lawsuit.

3 I think he might have left a voice mail for me at my

4 web page.

5 Q. And did you return --

6 A. No.

7 Q. Did you have any communications whatsoever

8 with him?

9 A. No.

10 Q. What did the voice mail say?

11 A. I have no idea. I think he was wanting a

12 comment or something.

13 Q. Did you ever post the ABC7 story on your

14 website?

15 A. You mean the video?

16 Q. Yeah, the video.

17 A. Yeah, I remember figuring a way to put a

18 video on my website. I don't remember which one it

19 was.

20 Q. So you don't remember if it was -- if you

21 ever posted the ABC7 story on your website?

22 A. I think I remember -- well, which story?

23 Q. The Goudie report.

24 A. I mean, I think I remember figuring out

25 a way to make it appear, but I -- I mean, all it

 64

1 really would have been is what's called a hot link.

2 You go here's the story, and you provide a link back.

3 It's just like providing a quote.

4 Q. Did you send -- forward the ABC7 report to

5 any other entities, other than what we've discussed

6 here, companies or persons or --

7 A. Not that I recall.

8 Q. Your affidavit says that you have had no

9 discussions of substance with anyone regarding the

10 ABC7 report. What discussions have you had about the

11 ABC7 report?

12 THE WITNESS: Am I allowed to ask you a

13 question at this point?

14 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Sure. He's talking about

15 with any third-party.

16 MR. DiCIANNI: I don't mean with your

17 attorney.

18 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Anything we've talked

19 about is privileged.

20 THE WITNESS: With people in Illinois?

21 MR. DiCIANNI: Anybody.

22 THE WITNESS: Am I allowed to talk about

23 the report with my friends or --

24 MR. GIAMPIETRO: Oh, yeah, no. Why don't

25 you narrow the question a little bit so we

 65

1 understand.

2 MR. DiCIANNI: Could you read it back,

3 read that question?

4 (The record was read.)

5 MR. DiCIANNI: I'll rephrase it.

6 Q. What are you referring to when you say

7 "discussions of substance"?

8 A. What I took that to mean was that there

9 have been e-mails without really responses, and that

10 it wouldn't be much of a discussion unless there were

11 some kind of a dialogue.

12 Q. So does that mean that you have sent

13 e-mail communications or other communications without

14 getting a response regarding --

15 A. We were just reviewing those earlier. I

16 mean, that's --

17 MR. DiCIANNI: That's all I have.

18 MR. GIAMPIETRO: I have none.

19

20

21 (SIGNATURE WAIVED.)
-----------------------------
22 JASON ALAN HAAP

23

24 DEPOSITION CONCLUDED AT 7:26 P.M.

25
 66

1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2 STATE OF OHIO :
: SS
3 COUNTY OF HAMILTON :

4 I, Patricia A. Walterman, RPR, the

5 undersigned, a duly qualified and commissioned notary

6 public within and for the State of Ohio, do hereby

7 certify that before the giving of his aforesaid

8 deposition, JASON ALAN HAAP was by me first duly

9 sworn to depose the truth, the whole truth and

10 nothing but the truth; that the foregoing is the

11 deposition given at said time and place by

12 JASON ALAN HAAP; that said deposition was taken in

13 all respects pursuant to stipulations of counsel;

14 that I am neither a relative of nor employee of any

15 of the parties or their counsel, and have no interest

16 whatever in the result of the action; that I am not,

17 nor is the court reporting firm with which I am

18 affiliated, under a contract as defined in Civil Rule

19 28(d).

20 In witness whereof, I hereunto set my hand and

21 official seal of office at Cincinnati, Ohio, this

22 8th day of October, 2007.

23

24 _____________________________
My Commission Expires: Patricia A. Walterman, RPR
25 June 18, 2012. Notary Public - State of Ohio