Prokofiev's Classical Symphony~ flute fingerings:

A flutenetter wrote:
>I have to play excerpts (all the hard bits) of the Prokofiev Classical Symphony for my
orchestral studies exam on Wednesday... was wondering what fingering you did for that horrible
B A F# D passage (you know the one I mean) and the scales up to High D??
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Jen says:
For the nasty solo at letter 'K' I used the Jeanne Baxtresser fingerings given in her book of
Orchestral Excerpts for Flute, pg. 23. The best bet is to use a really small and pure embouchure
to avoid blasting or splitting the harmonics she describes.
The B3 fingering stays the same, and the others are alternates. Namely: at pick up to the 5th bar
of K:

Pitches: D3-F#3-A3-B3-A3-F#3-D3

Fingerings:

D3 ~ [overblow] G2: T 123|___4

F#3 ~ [overblow] B2: T 1__|___4
A3 ~ T12_|1__4
B3 ~ T 1_3| (tr2) 4 ....regular B3 but with RH pinky stabilizing.

************************
For the runs up to high D4:
Do you mean the arpeggiated ones at 8 bars after 'A' and elsewhere? Or the scale-type ones at the
very end?

I'm assuming you mean the ones at the end since you said "runs".

I use the same trick as above, overblowing G A and B to get D3, E3 and F#3 respectively.
The only other alternate fingering is the "easy C#4" which is:
_2_|1___

Which leaves the RH pinky free to be ready for regular D4 fingering (RH pinky on low C keys.)

On the penultimate bar there's a B#3 chromatic bit.

For this, I just open up the thumb key, as you would for a B3 to C4 trill. Then I use the LH2, RH
1 for the C#4 again, and the regular D4.

The Gallois D4 [fingered: Bb thumb plus the RH 4 only] I only used for the first ending of the
exposition, [which is something like 2 bars before 'H', when you're looking at the page].It's
perfect for flattening the pitch of a fortissimo D4. But, in general, I was just too used to regular
D4 to be able to switch on short notice, plus my F# adjustment was out,
mechanically, so I wasn't able to get the Gallois D4 to "speak" very quickly.
1
I hope you do well on your Orch. Ex. test!!!

Do you have the Baxtresser CD that goes with her book?

I found it to be invaluable. Anyway, good luck.
Jen Cluff.

****************************************
Sally Ann wrote:
> Didn't Adrian post some of them for the passage of which you speak?
He gave me a few for Prok's PATW last year.

Jenni C. writes:
Here (see end of post) are Adrian's fingerings for the Classical Symphony. There are also some
great ones given by Jeanne Baxtresser in her Orchestral Excerpts book that are REALLY
working for me.

Additionally I'm trying out several of alternative fingerings from the Flute Pages, and the sneezy
website. The links to both those are on my Allegria Duo website, if you scroll to the bottom.
(the easier D4 and C#4 are useful in some of the runs!)

The "letter B" of the 4th movement Prok. Classical symph. passage that I'm still looking for
solutions for is this one:
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Jenni's query to Richard Volet (Principal flute Victoria Symphony):
*******************

In the fourth movement, beginning at 7 bars after "B" there is a eighth note repeated pattern that
is 'two-slurred/two tongued' followed by two quarter notes.

This passage can't be re-fingered as you probably well know (too many notes are overtones of
eachother anyway), and it's quite difficult to make the E3's speak at high speeds, plus the cross
fingerings take long and careful work.

Sample:
c g e g c e (repeat 4 times)
Bb f d f Bb d (rep. 4 times.)
*b g d g b d* (this being the worst one)

Since many of the woodwinds are involved in the same pattern at that time, is there any way of
"faking" the pattern so that instead of undulating the pitches for the four eighth notes, the first
flute can just repeat the topmost pitch for three eighth's duration?

Sample: * b g g g b d * (repeat 4 times)

This sample above is at Letter "C" in my edition.

2
Just wondering about the "fake factor". :>) (Plus I just got a call from my second flutist, looking
for a solution, and I came up with this one.)
Any opinions?

Thanks for taking the time to think it over.

Jennifer Cluff.
*******************************
Richard's answer:

Hi Jenni. I learned to play this passage as written as most do, but an easier way has occurred to
me while performing it. If the rhythm is changed to quarter,eighth, eighth, in one part and eight,
eighth quarter in the other, the both parts can cover exactly the same pitches as written.
Prokofiev already has written this out as a shorthand for continuos eighths, so why not; it would
be aurally identical. Maybe I'll try this
with my second flutist next time, but as I say, we've learned it already.<snip>
********************************
Thanks to Richard Volet for the above suggestion. I'll try it and let
you know, says Jenni to Nutters.

Final conclusion after trying both methods:

The fake way that I suggested above of repeated pitches is NOT that audible, but still somewhat
audible on the recording our Orch. did of the Classical Symphony. Richard's suggestion, on very
short notice did not make the section substantially easier.
So I conclude that it is best to play the passage as writtenand learn it steadily over time.
Some use of the 2nd trill key for the E3 can help it speak, but watch that the pitch does not
become too sharp.

If anyone comes up with a better way to divide this particular section between the first and
second flutists, that would make it easier, please write to flutenet and let us all in on it. Thanks,
Jen Cluff.
******************************

Adrian Brett's answer to the question of Prokofiev's Classical Symphony:

To: flutenet@onelist.com
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 99 17:49:39
Subject: [flutenet] The Prokofiev Classical Symphony solution..again!!

Scott wrote:
I'd welcome them (any suggestions)... and then the one that's kicking my
>A**- the excerpt from Prokofieff's Classical Symphony... I'm not sure
>where it's from, I would assume the last movement, it's marked molto
>vivace, half note = 152-168, and it starts at rehearsal K if that
3
>helps... anyways the part that's really getting me are these eighth
>note flips between the high A and B natural... I'm using harmonics for
>the arpeggios going down, and and the scale up to the high D at the end
>doesn't bother me, but those A-B things are driving me crazy!! I've
>looked for trill fingerings, but I haven't been able to find any that
>sound good enough to use... my fingers just can't quite get it that
>fast consistently using the regular fingerings... I've been resigning
>myself to extremely slow practice on it in the hopes that my fingers
>will get it sorted out, but with the audition next week, I'm nowhere
>close to 152...

Adrian writes:
Scott,

I have posted the solution to this several times.....take a detention for not writing it
down!!<<GG>>

The problem with this passage is that normally when notes go down fingers go down also and
when notes go up fingers go up. Not in this passage though...BUT..it is possible to make this
happen by some more lateral thinking.

I know several ways of playing this passage but here is THE best IMHO.

High B3 must be played Th 1-3..and here is the trick..play high A3 by adding LH2 and RH 1-3
to that basic B3 (as in the best A/B trill and for Valkyries 16ths) then F#3 as a 12th from B and D
also but from G.

Best of all is to place your little finger UNDER the C/C# touch pieces to steady the flute ( as the
D# key remains closed throughout).

The whole passage goes: D AB AF# D | D AB AF#D | BAF#D BAF#D BAF#D

C#DEF#| G

" This is a nasty bit | this is nasty bit | better fake it, better fake it, better fake it, finger this bit |
right!"

Play the first D normal

High A3 Th 123/1-3
B3 Th1-3
A3 as above
F#3 Th 1--/---
D3 Th 123/---

Same for next bar.

4
The repeated pattern as follows:

B3 Th 1-3/---
A3 Th 123/1-3
F# Th 1--/---
D Th 123/---

and finger out the last group but with middle finger F#3.
Good luck....and don't forget to send me $100!!

Adrian Brett
***************************end Classical Symphony doc.****************