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Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max


Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion
Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion
Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion
Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion
Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion

Coaching Call 2:

January 14, 2013 - Part A

Presents… Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 - Part A © Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion

© Copyright 2012 By Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland.

Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

Kenrick: Alright. Good morning everybody. Good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. This is Kenrick and I have got to learn to press the button that says unhold all clients. You’re all guests. All right. So you’re off hold now that’s a good thing and you can hear me. That’s a really good thing. Okay. Welcome to our call today. It’s a good day to be alive. It’s a good day to get better at persuasion and it’s a great day to be a man and not be a woman.

At least to that in my opinion. No offense to any women but my wife had a procedure to be done this morning and when I learned just how invasive it was and when I saw when it was on the exam, when I heard her described it I thought, “You know, I’m really glad I’ll never have to experience one of those.” And anyway, I made it back on time. So I’m glad to be with you folks today and I have a wonderful, huge bunch of questions to go through. This is going to be a fun call. So I recommend to settle back into a nice comfortable place, hopefully with something to write on to take notes if you’d like.

By the way, you know I always recommend that you take notes even though you have the material to go back through. It’s always really helpful to be able to take notes. It’ll help you learn the material quicker and keep it around longer in your head. Okay.

Let’s start with the first question. Person asked: In video three you covered a sales call. After finding out what has to happen for Dan to get his criteria met, then you actually took him to a negative outcome. You made a reference of sort of like hanging out there, being ready to whacked off. Do you recommend taking the prospect to a negative outcome after finding out their criteria and did something specific happen that made this more applicable? Also, when will the transcripts be coming?

Okay, first, as it relates to the question on criteria. The odds are that I perceived a move away from in that instance. I don’t recall the actual event, you didn’t put the minutes down so I can find exactly what you’re talking about. So I don’t know where it would be in video three. So, I don’t really know but what I can really imagine. The only way I can really imagine. Well, one of the big ways is if he had an away from criteria. As is high criteria. You’re one of the high criteria. Well, they usually all one or the other. But anyway, so if that was the case, I would have gone to a negative outcome to motivate him. Okay and that’s probably is the answer to that question.

As to the transcripts. Well, good news. Our last transcriptionist just quit. I just got the email this morning. So, not so good news really but apparently they had a serious family health issue and there was a- and she’s having to spend time in the hospital with her family member. It looks like it’s a very serious condition. So, you know that happens. I feel bad because it’s been very difficult to get a really good transcriptionist. But, you know, I mean difficult in the sense that there’s just been seemingly running into people with a lot of issues, but you know I have several more that are ready to step up to the plate and I’m sure we’ll find a fantastic one here real quickly.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

So they’ll just keep dribbling in, the videos themselves are much more difficult to transcribe. The, you know, the question and answer sessions they’re harder too because when I’m interacting with other people it’s a little harder. But the lessons themselves, they’re much easier. I’ll try to keep the lessons--, I’ll try to keep those to the front of the list and the transcripts for the videos will just keep dribbling in as we can get them done. So hopefully, that’s the answer. I have several that I’ll be reaching out to immediately and we’ll pick the best and the way we go.

All right. There is that one. Let’s move to the next question. By the way, I’m so thrilled you guys are in this program and that you’re asking all these questions. This is just fantastic. I can’t tell you how happy I am and how excited I am to get up and see this, you sent to me. It’s just really exciting. I’m really, really happy about it.

All right. Next question. Let’s see, person with the letter M figuring prominently in their name. Kenrick, the pattern you gave me last call was incredibly subtle and I’d never have recognized it as any kind of influence if I didn’t know what to look for. So nice job setting the bar there. By the way, that’s a-, first of all, thank you for that comment. Second of all, you know, I have two conflicting thoughts in my head. One is, it’s you say the pattern was incredibly subtle and second is that you wouldn’t know- , you wouldn’t have recognized it as influence if you didn’t know what to look for.

So, it is really interesting. This kind of talks about to me the difference between having proficiency with something and having knowledge of it. And this whole course, starting right from the advanced hypnosis portion which is a bonus, all the way through the entire bloody course. Right. Almost all of it, I want you to have absolute command of. When I say almost, right, because I don’t know that you’re really going to want to do the work to do some of the negative stuff that we’re going to learn.

However, if you do, all of the other work to learn this, you go through the program and you do the work. Just knowing about what you need to do on a more, shall we say grey level or even black or even negative, however you want to look at it. You know, will give you the ability to do it. But if you can’t do trance with somebody, right. If you can’t leverage language patterns and all the kinds of things that we’re talking about then the odds of you being able to just without any practice whatsoever do something to, you know, to install something you know dark. Right? It’s probably not going to happen. So you’ve really said in colloquial language, in common everyday, you know, language, you just said the difference between really being able to do something. Knowing it at a core level, right? And being able to understand, being able to recognize it. Okay.

Recognition and mastery of it are too vastly different things. And you know, in my life I’ve been able to see this very clearly in the things that I learn. Now, I’m jumping back into some music again and, you know, I’m excited and ready to have the short struggle of learning some of the basics, you know, as it applies to now the keyboards. And then, you know, and then learning it from there.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

You know, I know what to expect and I’m going to apply the strategies that I have available to me to make it more simple and more quick. I’ll share some of the results with you as I progress. So, you know, but this is such an important thing and it’s important as you, as you get involved with any learning. Right? Being able to recognize it is one thing, being able to utilize it is another, having mastery of it is yet a deeper level. Right. And so, I’m glad that you are able to discern it. I’m glad you are able to discern that it had an impact as it relates to persuasion and I’m really glad that now with that recognition, you’ll be able to develop some real serious ability with this. So that’s great.

The writer goes on and says, “A long time ago, a colleague of mine was searching for some lost object and kept moping around and complaining how she couldn’t find it. I’ve read a couple of NLP books and thought I was the bee’s knees.” That’s good. I like that. I really like that.

Okay. I can’t tell you how many people are out there in this world that had read a couple of NLP books and think they as well must be the bee’s knees because after all they’ve read the books. Were any of you, and pretty much all of you, have studied with me know for quite some time to be in this program. And for anybody that’s gone through my works, my programs and actually learned them pretty well. If you go back and read those books, you’ll think to yourself, “Wow! Man, yeah, I get that.” And yet, the first time you read them it was probably painful to read them. Difficult.

You know, you get through them especially the kind of a scientific background but, you know, but actually putting them into use would have been nonexistent pretty much. I can’t tell you the number of people to come back and say “Wow! You know after going through this. Then I go back through and read one of the books and oh my God. I get it.”

So good. So he goes on and write, “So I was like, well, if you didn’t know where it was, what would that feel like? And how would you picture it in your mind now? And she just says, ‘I don’t know. ‘Cause I don’t know where it is.’ And then she’s glaring at me and says, “Your mind tricks will not work on me, boy.”

Alright. Well, I think Mr. Brown had been on TV recently and she was on guard. In any event, could you please give us many trance using double binds for recalling lost passwords or lost objects for use with myself and maybe a stubborn partner? Yeah. I have a lot to say about this. And I’m not going to say it all right here ‘cause I’m going to talk about it in the first lesson. Okay. This is part of what I’m-, I’m putting final touches on it by the way for you. And once you know that you’ll have that within about the next 48 hours, maybe faster.

But I talk about this kind of thing because and it’s not what you’re going to expect me to say right now. I don’t think. But the thing of it is, you have to have an expectation of what you can do. And part of that is understanding what can be done and that’s one of the reasons that you’re here. Okay. So, the thing is, you know, if you don’t know

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

what can be done then you’re going to be applying tools that can be kind of ridiculous. For example, a mini trance using double binds for recalling passwords.

Let me give you a story. I had a guy call me up. This is back when I had my little hypnosis office. When I had the hot woman come in that was pretty orgasmic, right? So, a short time later, I got a call and it was from the security department of a bank. And they said, you know, “We understand that you, you do hypnosis.” And I said, “Yes, I do.” And they said, “Well, we have a vault. And we cannot open the vault and we would like you to try hypnosis to see if you can help our, you know, our, our, you know, our manager remember the code.” I said, “Okay.” And they said, “But we have some conditions.” I said, “What are your conditions?” And they said, “One of our security team must be with the manager at all times while you do hypnosis.” I was kind of laughing. That would be fun. I get to hypnotize them both.

And I said, “Okay.” And they said, “And whatever is written in the session. You know if you write the code or however it’s done. Whatever is written we would like to take with us. We’d like to ensure that there would be no way that you could recall it.” And I said, “Well, all right.” I guess suppose that presupposes I have a bad memory. But all right. I said, “I have no problem with that.” And I said, you know-, they said, “Can we come right now?” And I said, “Sure, come on.”

Well, the ending of the story, isn’t very good. Unfortunately, I failed. Okay. And I thought long and hard about that. Why did I fail? And, you know, I think a lot of people might not share a story with you about why they failed. But on the other hand, I feel like you deserve to have those stories, you know, I mean with those-, with these stories, you’ll quickly begin to put in order even better how the stuff really works. Okay. So I failed, because it’s pretty difficult to use trance to recall something if the subject is not trained.

Now, it wouldn’t have been so hard probably had I’ve been working with this client for quite some time. I had trained them to go into a very profound altered state of consciousness and I had specifically sent them out to get the code or to memorize the code and to bring it back and recall it to me.

Now, on the other hand, had I had a long period of time with that same client, meaning four to ten sessions or more. I might well have got them to recall the code. But the client had never used trance before and was scared to death. He’s sitting there in front of the security guy and, you know, I did was able to put the client at ease to tell him it’s not a big deal.

You know, then the security guard has to interrupt and asked me how to make sure he doesn’t go into trance. I was laughing so hard inside my own head, I can’t hardly stand it. I’m like, well just watch how his face. Anyway, I said, well, you know just to, you know, concentrate on if I write anything because that’s what you want to make sure and leave with.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

Okay. Anyway, so bottom line is that in, you know, half hour or 45 minutes of trying, they came up with a number of possible combinations, none of which worked. Okay. And that’s too bad. You know, I really wished I could have helped them. I thought long and hard about it. Why I couldn’t have helped them? And I came to the conclusion that, you know, with the client not being conditioned for trance, with the stress level being as high as it was, you know, with he had to come up with that code or that bank was really going to be screwed.

The bank was screwed. The bank, they did not come up with the code. They had, I don’t know-, they had to bring in the, safe specialist from somewhere that ended up getting into the safe. That was a real problem. I think those conditions would have helped solve it. I think the problem is solvable. I think that given enough time, I could have easily, in other words, let’s say that there was not pressure on the client to remember that. That would have been the best thing to do.

So the problem is, and I fortunately was smart enough about this to tell the bank at that time, I can’t promise you any result. Okay. I’ve not worked with this client before, I can’t promise you a result. I don’t know if I can do it or not. I don’t know if the client can do it. Regardless of whether or not, I can do it. Right. I mean, so let’s give it a shot and we’ll see how it goes. And they said, “Okay. That’s fair. Well, anything right now. We just got to try anything.”

Alright. Had the client not been under stress, had it not been a life or death situation practically. And it wasn’t life or death for the client but I think the client felt like they were going to get, you know, they were going to be thought less of because they couldn’t remember the code. And the bank should have been smart enough to always have someone in the security department that has a backup combination to the safe.

So you know, I don’t know why that didn’t happen either. But it was a failure all the way around. And for whatever reason that was where we found ourselves and I didn’t-, I wasn’t able to make it work. So the bottom line and answer to your questions is, you got to know what’s possible, using what tools. Right. You have to structure the situation such that you have the greatest possibility of success.

There’s a story and I can’t-, I can’t recall the specifics of the story but, I’m going to actually call some of the-, I can recall the story but the names of the girl. But there was a very-, it’s a famous story of a girl who was a-, lived out in the country, a very modest life growing up for her. She had finally turned around 18 I think or 19 and she was making her first trip into the city. She was a confident, attractive girl but she was, you know, had a very proper, prim and proper kind of upbringing. She was not sexually active but at that point from what we understood. And the-, she was, you know, she was going into the city to do shopping or something for the first time all by herself.

And then she got on the train, a gentleman approached her and sat in the same compartment with her and, you know, he asked her what she was doing. And she’s

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

going for a doctor’s visit. That’s what she’s going to do. And she was going to find a doctor for something and he’s in for some health issue. And the doctor-, so the guy said, “Well that’s very interesting come to-, come to pass. I am a doctor and that’s one of my specialties and my office is in such and such a place and if you’d like I’ll be happy to help you. Why don’t you come see me and I’ll be happy, we’ll do an exam and we’ll figure out what needs to be done.” She was very happy that that was the case and so she went in to see the guy.

Well, it so happens he was a con artist and it so happens he was a hypnotist and he used hypnosis with this girl to control her every which way but lose. He had made use of her as a-, for sex, he made post hypnotics suggestions so that he was able to give those suggestions to friends of his and they were able to use her for sex as well. He was able to induce phantom limb pain and cause her such extraordinary pain and that the only way that she could solve it was to bring him more money for a consultation, additional consultations. And when her husband wouldn’t pay, he- well, actually I should state that back.

So, I’m not sure if later she got married or if she was married when this began but my underst--, anyway, she was married during, at least par to this and, and the, you know, he would induce, yeah, I guess she was married from the beginning. Jared is just mentioning to me. And so, you know, I guess she was sexually active, in any event, this guy was able to pass her around and use her every which way and make her bring him money and this went on for a very, very long time.

Until finally, you know, the family became suspicious of what was going on and they became suspicious because the hypnotist tried to have her kill her husband. Poison him and all kinds of things. And the husband-, the hypnotist influence, however, was not doing very well at that point. He had made quite a number of errors. In any event, forensic psychologist who was a phenomenal hypnotist, with enough time on his hands and it means, months and months it took him to figure-, to unwind all these.

He was able to go back and have her remember many of the details that the hypnotist had even told her to forget. So, he was a far greater strategist. So I want you to stop and think about something right now. Okay. Strategy is the key to all you are doing in this program. It’s the key to language. It’s the key hypnosis. It’s a giant key to everything dark side. Right. You simply have to be greater at strategy than the person that you are hypnotizing and that doesn’t have to mean much.

I mean, you know, let’s look at chess. Right. If you are able to outthink the number of moves of your opponent, the odds are you’ll win. All you have to be able to do, is think more clearly to your outcome and since they don’t know your outcome it’s kind of hard for them to think clearly about what’s going to happen. Therefore, you’ll be able to win almost every time. Okay. You’ll be able to do what you want to do. Okay.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

I hope this helps illustrate my answer to the question that you asked. Now, going a little bit further. You asked if I give a mini trance using double bind. So now let me answer that for you in more of a concrete way. A mini trance using double binds is not going to be what gets them to remember. The odds are, you can give them a shove in the right direction but it’s not going to work. In the same way that it didn’t work for you to say, if you did know where it was, what would that feel like and how would you picture it in your mind right now.

Okay. All that does is piss people off usually. Now, let’s strategies shall we. Let’s take this up a notch. Let’s add quotes to it. Huh! That’s really too bad that you lots that. Man, I’m telling you, I don’t know where it is. I haven’t seen it. I’ll help you look for it.

You know, I had a situation at the office a while back. And the boss was looking for something. Then the boss said to me, you know, I need to just stop and relax and think about that if I did know where it was and I do know and my conscious know somewhere then what would that feel like to know. And then I saw him just sit down and relax and he had that kind of inner knowing sense of, you know, kind of confidence across his face.

He goes, “Yeah. I, yeah. Okay. I feel like what that is. And just now I just need to picture in my head where it is.” And he said, he had a few places come to mind, anyone out and one of them was actually it and he found it. Anyway, let me help you look. Let’s see if I can help you find it.

Now, in that short period of time that probably if they’re going to find it, that might get them to relax, lift the tension of off it. And then let them go about finding it. However, more realistically, what will probably happen is, they’ll put it out of their head temporarily and all of sudden it’ll pop in as to where it is. Okay.

So that’s what I would recommend doing. I wouldn’t recommend using double binds, you know, in lost objects. That’s like an example of what won’t work, you know, to get you what you’re trying to get. I mean it might. If it’s just a matter of a simple jog, you know, jogging in their mind. Okay, that might work. Right. But there’s nothing you need to do more so that almost what you did the first time but put it in quotes. Put it in some quotes. Make it more indirect. Okay. Now, if within those quotes you wanted to use a double bind, you know, then you might have said something like, you know, so he asked himself, if he didn’t know where it was, what it would feel like, and he told me that the first step for him and he said it helps a lot of people, that he’s done this with is just to feel like he knew where it was.

You know like, let’s say that you knew, that you walked in the house with your keys and you knew you put it on a little hook inside the front door where you always did. So you know in your mind that that’s where your keys are. So if I asked you, do you know where your keys are? And you go, “Yeah.” And you could get up and go look

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis

Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

and they’re there are on the hook. So you said that’s for him what it was like. He went on to say then if he would just act as if he could remember and ask himself, he posed the question to himself where is it. And he said to me something to me something strange, he said, “You know something. I don’t know if my unconscious is going to choose to give me a picture or tell me exactly where they are. Or if it simply going to pop it into my mind a little bit later as I relax.” And you know what I didn’t really, I don’t really care because either way goes down the road I may end up figuring out exactly what I did to cause this problem and then eliminating it in the future or just be thoroughly thrilled that I have what it is that I was looking for.

And I thought, you know I just thought that sounded interesting and strange all at the same time but it made sense to me and I determined I would remember it. In the case, I could use it for myself or someone else. Anyway, let me help you find that real quick. Let’s see if we can find it together. That’s plenty enough. Remember, if your partner was sophisticated enough to know when you said well you probably cause you were looking like you’re a smart ass, when you said if you didn’t know where it was, what would it feel like. I mean, but if they could catch that, they’ll probably catch the double binds. Right. So, I would recommend instead thinking of true logically realizing the different abilities of each of the different things like we’re going through right now. And then pick the best one for the task. And in this case, probably simply using, putting it in a quote will give you as much power as you can have at that point.

Now, alternatively, and I’m spending a lot of time on this but there’s some good reasons for it. Alternatively, let’s say that the person you’re working with is one of your trance partners. And let’s say that you have conditioned them in trance very deeply and you could easily sit them down, put them into a trance and have them remember. Well then by all means do that. Okay.

Let’s move on to the next question from a person with the-, of the letter F figuring prominently in the name. Hello Kenrick! Really excited to be in this course and only this first videos have already added a lot of value. By all means, I’m complete with what you have offered us so far. Fantastic. One thing I would like to understand better is, what we can expect to accomplish with covert hypnosis as opposed to formal trance. A-ha! You see. Exactly what I was talking about. You’re thinking it through strategically.

That’s right. What are the pros and cons to both approaches and what can we expect to do in formal trance that would be more with covert? Thanks and waiting for the beginning of the course. Great! You’re going have to wait just a little bit more because that’s actually part of what’s in the first lesson. Okay.

So, let me give a little hint. Okay. Think of things that are more conversational for covert. Think of things more elaborate for full-on trance. Think of covert as a bridge to get to full-on trance if you want to do that. Okay. So we’ll go--, I’ll go very in depth in the first lesson with that. That is something that we’re going to be covering. Okay.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

So let me ask you to just hold on just a little bit and you’ll get that and then if you need, you know like more explanation about it, I’ll you know, I’ll entertain the question again in whatever form it comes up for you.

Okay. Next question, the person whose name has a P figure in it. Hello Kenrick! I was reviewing video one and at the six minute mark you make an amended comment about how you wouldn’t do the same today. Were you referring to not wanting to put a person out to install suggestions but you would want them a little more conscious? I’m having a hard time understanding. Could you expand some more? Thanks.

No, to all of the above. I didn’t say I wouldn’t do the same today. The amended comment said at the six-minute mark that I have amended many of my views. I guess another way to say that would be, my abilities and my understanding has advanced from then till now. Okay. And so, I’m saying that what I was saying then is, I might want to do more manipulative stuff if I were going to be doing it, you know, I want to be doing that more when the person is conscious than when they’re out.

Now, I have amended that, that way of thinking in my mind. Okay. Let me tell you how. If I just had a few minutes. Right. And I just, you know, I just wanted to mess with someone a little it for whatever reason, I’d probably use something more along the lines of a pattern from the dark side too. Okay. I might use a bit of covert induction strategies to kind of put them out a little bit and then whip one of those patterns out on them and leave it good enough at that.

I mean that’s probably enough for most circumstances. So there are the covert hypnosis part, help me in opening up their mind so as to eliminate critical thinking and we’re going to explore several definitions of trans in lesson one. But here, I’m using the one of, you know, eliminating critical thinking. Okay. And whip in one of those nasty little patterns and away I go.

Now, let’s say I wanted to do something far more serious. I wanted to install a multiple personality. Right. There I would use full on trans. So I made that reference at mark six-, at the six-minute mark I should say. To simply make-, help you to make sense of the idea that, you know, I’m-, you know, not everything has to be done just with a quick covert thing. It can be done with a very profound, you know, hypnotic session of which it’s very covert.

In the sense that you don’t remember squat from what you did. Okay. But still that’s what I meant by that. I hope that helps. Okay. Another question from the same person. In video one, you mentioned how you can elicit someone’s strategy in order to help the hypnotic subject give the outcome they desire.

I’ve seen all the videos and there’s a lot of information. So I don’t know if you covered it later on or not. If not, can you describe how you would do that or is the

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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same as getting someone’s criteria in order to elicit the strategies for changing hypnosis?

Yes, it’s the latter. It’s getting someone’s criteria. It’s eliciting how they do things. Like how the buy, how they become convinced. How they fall in love. Whatever it is you want them, you might be wanting them to do. You can elicit that strategy. You can do it through meta-programs. You can do it through, you know, actually revivifying a time in the past when they did it. There are all kinds of ways you can do this.

You know, but that’s what I was talking about. Basically, you know, revivifying a time from the past and asking them the process of how they did that. What came first? What came second? What they see or feel? Or getting their criteria and eliciting the strategies that way. So, change is change whether using trans or not. And change uses trans whether you think you are or not.

Okay. Here’s the next question. Jared said that the course can go in different directions depending on questions and participation. As a novice, I wouldn’t even know what those directions could be. So maybe you could throw it out there and take a vote. Okay. Let me explain what we meant by that.

So for example, today I am going through the questions with you. And as I do that, let’s say that I get a number of questions that are going in the same direction. And I think to myself, “Wow!” You know, in the next lesson, I need to expand on that somehow. Okay. Then I’m going to work that in. Or let’s say, I think to myself, “You know what, wow. I need to develop an entirely new learning session to cover that.” Or, “I need to amend the one that’s coming to clue that.”

So it will be something like that. Okay. It will be something like, let’s say that after lesson one, everyone is just wild about it particular part of it. They’re going, “Oh my God! I got to, you know.” So, you know, I like to go into that further. Okay. Well, then I could amend, you know, part of the next lesson to include further discussion about that if need be.

So isn’t that we’re taking votes, you know, it’s more like if I see it the same thing repeated over and over. If enough of the people are interested in something, you know, if the group is leaning in a direction or another direction, I too will accommodate and lean there. I’ve already, you know, I’ve already got the whole five modules or whatever more is coming. I have got them all, all planned out.

You know, there and they’re huge. They’re gigantic. They’re intimidating to me. There’s so much for me to do. But nonetheless, you know, my point is and that’s why I don’t have the date exact because after one of these calls, if there’s anything that comes up then I’m going to add it to the program and make sure you get it immediately instead of just plow on as if, you know, what you’re-, what’s going on

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doesn’t matter. It’s not like there’s directions that we can vote on. It’s hopefully, that makes it a little bit more clear.

Alright. Next question. Hello Kenrick. During, doing this course reminds of your story about happened-, reminds of your story about what happened to you. There we go. I couldn’t speak today. But they’re no longer true that used to be. Were you in a trans or mild trans? What was the situation that allowed this to happen to you as it relates to this course? Thanks.

Alright. Well, I don’t want to just rag on the guy that did this. Okay. I have a love, pain, I wouldn’t say hate exactly although I used to have that. You know, it kind of experience with this guy. It was because of the timeframe that I was with him. Okay. And my history sounds bad doesn’t it? When I studied with him, I was never with him in that sense. Okay. But when I was studying with him, you know, it was a timeframe and it was a very difficult timeframe to say the very least. A very stressful timeframe for him. And that’s kind of an understatement. That’s a huge understatement.

And so, you know, to make a long story short. I think every time I was with him, you know, studying with him, I was in a trance. Not a full on formal trance but certainly a trance. I mean, number one, whenever you’re learning anything new, you’re in a trance. As you are now.

You know, but I mean it’s true. You know, you’re listening on the phone, in timely you’re trying to make sure you get everything, you know, you’re waiting to see, you know, if you know what I’m saying or if it’s relating to something new. You’re altering your consciousness and going deeper into a more fully and comfortable level where you can learn everything I’m saying and take it in at the deepest level of your being.

So, you know, I mean every time I will hand that kind of situation with him, I was in an altered state. Was it a, you know, was it a very formal one? You know, clinically induced. No. Didn’t have to be. He didn’t do much with it either. Right. He didn’t do all that way. He just said, you know, as long what it used to be. It so happen that I really locked on to something that was no longer to what it used to be and he was really good at anchoring it. And he fired it off at, you know, at my core values, you know, at who I am.

And it made a fog come over my head. I felt the minute he did it. I felt it started to move over my head. Kind of like, I don’t know, I remember once being at the ocean and watching, literally watching fog come rolling in. We were sitting at a restaurant eating and it just rolled in, rolled right over the restaurant and it made it look it was cloudy out. Like, you know, just grey and dismal. And a little later the fog rolled on and it was beautiful sun shiny day. That’s what it felt like and I can see it rolling in. I could feel it covering. I can feel it-, I didn’t know what happened. I had no clue. I just thought it was just talking and playing.

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But later it get worse and worse and worse until finally, you know, I just, you know, I could get up and go to work but I didn’t know why I was going to work. I could get up and do what I had to do but I didn’t really know why. I didn’t feel like myself. It was, you know, finally, I snapped out of it. I would not have snapped out of it, I don’t think had he anchored it I would have snapped out of the sense that I would have learned, you know, I would have basically had to start over again in the certain way of looking at it and figure out what was important to me in life and what motivated me and what part would have taken five or six times as long probably. Not just six months, it might have taken many, you know, good number of years.

How does it relate to this course? You know you’re saying that as it relates to the course well, look. Using a covert trance, you can easily put someone out especially once you found some things that made them who they are. And how would you do that? You could ask them. How-, you know, tell me. How do you know like-, who are you at the deepest core? Like what’s really you? You know, let’s say that you’re asking you that. I said, well--, I’m a really great communicator. That’s how I see myself. A really persuasive communicator. I see myself as that.

You know, I’m a person who is very interested in very deep psychological and metaphysical things. And, you know, that’s almost enough. You know. I could say to you I, I am working hard to be a great husband and father, you know. I mean that, that would, you know, that says a lot about me right there. Okay. So now, you’re saying you’re just simply take that in. You make note of those things. You use a covert strategy to alter my consciousness a little bit and as we’re doing that you just simply almost in passing go, “You know, I was thinking about something the other day. Kind of a funny way of thinking about something.” But let me ask you, what’s something that’s no longer true for you but used to be?

You know, I mean, it could be anything. But just thinking that question for this, pretty wild question. What something that’s no longer true for you but used to be? And let’s say I said to you, “Well, it used to be yesterday and now it’s not.” And you go, “Alright. But is there anything more personal to you?” Well, yeah, I used to live on this house. I used to live in this house on the street, on Yam Street and I don’t anymore. “Oh okay. So it’s no longer true, you don’t live there anymore, right?” “No.” “But you used to.” “Yeah, that’s right. I sure did. I used to.”

Okay, fantastic. You anchor it at that point. So when you’re thinking about that it’s no longer true. How do you think about that house? You know, it’s just no longer true is it? Me, anchor. Right. And then you locate this, that’s really something. So if you then continue with a little bit of deepening language or just, you know, or just confusion language even in the trance. You simply fire the anchor as you talk about--, you know, it’s interesting you mention that you’re, you know you thought yourself to be a, and by the way listen to my language start to change. You thought yourself to be a great communicator.

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I’d step into the role of doing the persuasion. Not the guy being persuaded. But I’m already using language tenses to reverse this in the guy’s head. Okay and at the same time I’m firing the no longer true but used to be. You’re no longer a great communicator but you used to be. I really like talking like that, bugs me. Not does it really say that I went through. In any event, you know, so you fire off of those that against those things in the persons life and go, well you know, I just had been fascinated about how the brain works and how things are, you know.

Now, you want to be real dick then go ahead and future pace it. You know, I mean, if you want to be nice, don’t. They may come out of it someday. But that is-, that was a situation happen to me and that is how it would relate to you being able to do it using a covert trance and very conversational. It is, it’s devastating that kind of thing. Absolutely, devastating. Now, start to think strategically. What must be true in order for you to be able to do that?

Well, that you have a reason to talk with the person long enough to be able to do that. That you have, that it’s framed in the context of you can have a personal conversation with this person. So with this me within five minutes of meeting them. Probably not. Within five minutes of meeting them, could you have the outcome of gaining a lot of confidence, trust and rapport? Yes. That you could do.

Could your next outcome be the leverage that to get them to do some fractionation type stuff with hypnosis? Yes, you sure could. Even covertly you could do that. That could be in your intention. Okay. Could it be that after a couple of times of kind of putting them out and bringing them back then you could suggest maybe a, you know, a covertly a more, a more, you know personal type of conversation. Could you do that by saying to them, for example, you know it’s just amazing I feel that you know I just feel really comfortable talking with you and it isn’t always that I feel that way, you know what I mean?

And goes, yeah. Alright. As long as the person says, “yeah” well they’re feeling the same thing right? So, and that will program them to feel it too. So then from there you go right into eliciting who they are, eliciting no longer true but used to be, slamming it. Deciding whether or not you want to future pace it and then going on about your life. Right.

So, you can even find out if it’s working by asking them, when you think about who you are right now, how do you feel? Do you feel anything kind of weird or different? How do you fee? And they go, “yeah, I do. I feel really like, I don’t feel very good.” Well, huh. I didn’t either when I was first asked that. But anyway, interestingly it’s your point of view on it. You know, really interesting.

All right. Well I got to run. You take care. Right. So, you know, but I mean that there is an absolute way right there to use what we’re doing with hypnosis and everything else. And see because of your exposure so far or even just to the first bonus material in the program, now you could start recognizing when they’re going

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out. Now you can start recognizing when they’re going further in when you can, you know, when you’ve put them in that relax state and you can up the frequency of your, of the use of your language patterns, right. So pretty slick.

Alright. Let’s go to the next question. An H figures prominently in the person here. In video one, you said if you wanted to maneuver--, oh did I already asked that? Well, maybe I answer that-, let me just, let me read it anyway. In video one you said if you wanted to maneuver someone strongly you would leverage the rapport from the trance rather than using the trance itself. I think that’s where I was talking about too. I’ve kind of grown from that and I would do it either way now. Depending on what I wanted to do and how much time and what the relationship was with the person. Notice that if I’d never met the person. I didn’t know him from Adam but I knew they were in X place today. And I knew I could run into them if I went to that place. Well, that doesn’t provide me with near the context that it would if I were knowing that this person was going to be some place tonight with a friend of mine and I was going to go and this friend of mine was going to introduce me to this other person and set the stage for there to be an interaction.

Vastly different abilities, one to the other. Okay. Imagine, you know, you get on the bus today and some guy walks in and says, “Hi! How are you?” And you go, “Fine.” And he goes, “Great. I’m Dr. So and so. I’m just really curious. When’s the last time you’ve had a rectal exam?” I look at the guy and go, “What? I’m not, you know, we’re not having this conversation.” “Yeah, I’m a doctor. Don’t worry about it, you know. So when was the last time you had any?” He takes out a notepad and starts writing. He’s, “We’ll just, we’ll just do a little quick clinical, you know, just do a little freebie for you here.” “You know, thanks anyway. I’ll go see my doctor.”

In other words, yeah he might be able to set it up to get you to do it, better would be for him to get you just like the other guy did, the first story I told you I think. You know, to get the girl come in and see him. Well better for him to say, you know, shake your hand, tell, you know, say, “Hi. My name is Dr. Smith.” Well, you know, my name is so and so and you know go from there. You know, I’m a medical doctor and you know and by the way, I’m doing a free-, some free exams. We’re doing a study, love you’re about the right age. Would you want to come in and let me do a study? It can really, really help you. You know, to make sure that everything is safe for you as you proceed in years. I mean you know that might be a way that you’d actually go see the guy.

If at that point in the office, he induced trance. Okay, he could do that at that point. That’s, you know, all of this starts to come together to make for what you might want to do. Walking up to someone you’ve never met, you’ve never known and, you know, and you wanted to do something to them, I would, I would separate that into a number of parts. There is the meaning of them and the establishing of rapport and there will be the suggestion, you know, if you want to make him hypno spy out of them for example that they will come to you and, you know, let you start working with them for whatever reason that, you know, you could figure out how strategize that.

© Copyright 2012 by Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland. All rights reserved in all media.

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So that then from within the context of doing hypnosis work with them, then you could actually turn them into a hypno spy with these. And the next question this person asked is: You briefly used your microphone for effect on the video, how do you feel about using microphones, amps and headphones, headphone setups with hypnosis clients? Wow, excellent question. I absolutely love it. Do it.

If you have that kind of business and that’s what you want to do, then I would tell you without hesitation, absolutely do it. There is nothing like learning how to maneuver the microphone and the recording setup and editing and everything else, depending on what you wanted to do to be able to have a tremendous impact vocally. Okay.

You know, think of what a VO guy is, voice over guy. Right. These are the people and it’s called voice over when you hear the ads on radio, you know, you hear the guy in the background on the television. These are voice over actors and they’re called VO actors, voice over actors. What does that mean? How was it an actor to read an ad? Well, no, you have to be an actor. You have to read the ad. ‘Today only! Sundays, Sunday, Sunday…’ You know, they have been, they’re acting. Right. They have to get themselves into the mood and the emotion of it. But, you know.

It’s the same to be, you know, a spiritual actor. It will be called the minister. You know. And these guys know when they’re preaching, not some of them trying to be, you know, they take the persona of a I’m the normal guy and I’m just having a converstation with you here. Okay. Well then he’s acting the part of the normal guy having a conversation. You could look at it that way or he’s acting the part of the, of the authority, the religious authority who’s going to repeat in threes and on and on, you know, in order to get you to do what he thinks is the right thing for you to do.

Okay. The bottom line is, a VO actor is because they act in one of the tools of a VO actor. Well, their script, their voice tone, speed and control of the way they deliver and their microphone. Now, we’ve just invested quite heavily in new recording equipment. I have new microphones coming, I have new-, I have a whole new bunch of stuff that we’ve just invested in. And within the next couple of weeks you’ll begin to start being able to take advantage of that. You’ll be able to hear what I’m doing with it.

And, you know, I’m passionate about that. I love that kind of thing. Okay. I think it will help you a lot. Let us talk a little bit about the pros and cons even though it’s a little bit out of the mainstream of this conver-, you know, what the course is but you asked what do I think the pros and cons are. You say, I don’t want to become lazy as I never saw Erickson looking like an MC. Right.

You didn’t see him looking like an MC because they didn’t have that stuff back then. You know, you didn’t see him get-, you didn’t see him getting, getting in the-, well, you didn’t see him doing a lot of technical things that didn’t exist. You know, we’re

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talking about. You didn’t see him with a personal computer in front of him either. It didn’t exist, you know.

Well, it didn’t really exist. I remember back around 1977, ’78, back in ’76 or so in school, I-, they had a giant box with great big papers that you’d- like card, paper card you’d feed into it, they had wholes punched in the card and that would program the little computer, or the big computer to do something. And it would be basically simple math routines and that was a computer.

And the science guy was all proud of it, nobody could touch his computer and it had to be kept especially and all the stuff. There is now, there is no computer that you put on and whipped around and found whatever you wanted and recorded. So don’t worry because you didn’t see Erickson do it, then you shouldn’t it, man. Okay.

A few more pros and cons, the client will get conditioned to hearing you in headphones and that’s okay because you could leverage from that and tell them, of course whether you’re listening to me with your headphones on, and having all of those feelings that are created in that way, you will have all of those same feelings even when we talk just like this. You’ll be amazed.

You may be even surprised one day as we talk like this that when we’re done, you didn’t have your headphones on. You may reach up to take them off and think, “Oh! And I’m on that’s interesting.” So, you could do stuff like that. Okay. The other thing is, is that you will get a little dependent upon it, dependent upon it okay. You will as I am when I do, you know, when I do my learning sessions. I’m dependent upon having a really professional setup.

I’m dependent on knowing how to use my mic and how to make it work the best as possible. I’m dependent on a lot of things. You know, so will you. That’s not a bad thing. What you’ll have to do is work the workflow into your life. So you’ll have to be, you have your system setup, you know, right there by your-, you know, where you do your consulting. It’ll have to be more or less unobtrusive somehow. You’ll have to have the setup for the client there. And way you go.

Now, you can absolutely patch your speaking through a microphone right through and into the MindSpa but you better practice with it a big number of times first to make sure that it’s working right. For example, you could patch an amplifier, a mixing, a mixing board, you know, small one let’s say two or three channel sound card or whatever. You could, you could mi-, you could put right into so you have a mic and the output of the soundcard or the mixer would be a-, would go into the input of the MindSpa and then out into the client’s ears.

Okay. So as you speak in the microphone but you then need to then do a lot of speaking with you listening to yourself. I would do some recording. Remember that mics usually have a proximity effect, meaning that when you get real close to it, it’ll make you sound more boomy. Okay. That might have clipped so meaning I spoke too

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loud. But if you get real close to the microphone, it has a proximity effect then you have to learn about that. Google it. Proximity, P-R-O-X-I-M-I-T-Y I think, effect.

And, you know, and you’ll start to get the understanding of it. If anybody else has any real interest in that, I’ll be happy to go into that at more depth, more depth with you. Let me also tell you that we are going to-, I am working with a company, they’re coming out with something spectacular. I’m doing a lot of the analysis of what they’re doing, seeing how it works for the programing that I want to do.

But we’re coming out with the super advanced new light and sound machine. Far greater abilities with sound, far greater, greater sound capability/quality and the lights are spectacular. You have no idea, it can do things, it can jump and down and shake your hand practically. It’ll cost about the same as the, as the MindSpa, you’ve noticed that we’re no longer selling the MindSpa and that’s because we are going to something far more heavy duty. Far big breakthroughs in the stuff that I’m going to be taking advantage of.

I will be programming for it. I don’t believe it will obsolete any equipment that you’re

using now. There may be some things that will make it obsolete in the sense that, you know, it’ll do some of it but not all of it. So, you know, but hey, you know technology improves and advances and we haven’t seen any real advances in the technology in light and sound for a good many years and finally now, they’re coming out with some just incredible stuff. So I will be bringing it to you in the next couple of months. I

should be able to-, I should have it in my hands.

So we’ll keep you updated. I’ve signed, you know privacy, you know that I won’t talk about he stuff yet, so soon as I’m released from that, after the stuff is done, I will absolutely share it with you. Okay. I hope that helped with that question. Moving on. Will we be looking at some advanced cold reading techniques? This is something I would love to learn to do well. Do you use them yourself?

I absolutely use them myself. I’ll tell you a secret. You ready? I believe that cold reading techniques…

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