Presents

Coaching Call 2:
January 14, 2013 - Part A

Copyright 2012
By Max Persuasion and Kenrick Cleveland.
Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

Kenrick: Alright. Good morning everybody. Good afternoon, good evening

wherever you are in the world. This is Kenrick and I have got to learn to press the
button that says unhold all clients. Youre all guests. All right. So youre off hold
now thats a good thing and you can hear me. Thats a really good thing. Okay.
Welcome to our call today. Its a good day to be alive. Its a good day to get better at
persuasion and its a great day to be a man and not be a woman.

At least to that in my opinion. No offense to any women but my wife had a procedure
to be done this morning and when I learned just how invasive it was and when I saw
when it was on the exam, when I heard her described it I thought, You know, Im
really glad Ill never have to experience one of those. And anyway, I made it back on
time. So Im glad to be with you folks today and I have a wonderful, huge bunch of
questions to go through. This is going to be a fun call. So I recommend to settle back
into a nice comfortable place, hopefully with something to write on to take notes if
youd like.

By the way, you know I always recommend that you take notes even though you have
the material to go back through. Its always really helpful to be able to take notes.
Itll help you learn the material quicker and keep it around longer in your head. Okay.

Lets start with the first question. Person asked: In video three you covered a sales
call. After finding out what has to happen for Dan to get his criteria met, then you
actually took him to a negative outcome. You made a reference of sort of like hanging
out there, being ready to whacked off. Do you recommend taking the prospect to a
negative outcome after finding out their criteria and did something specific happen
that made this more applicable? Also, when will the transcripts be coming?

Okay, first, as it relates to the question on criteria. The odds are that I perceived a
move away from in that instance. I dont recall the actual event, you didnt put the
minutes down so I can find exactly what youre talking about. So I dont know where
it would be in video three. So, I dont really know but what I can really imagine. The
only way I can really imagine. Well, one of the big ways is if he had an away from
criteria. As is high criteria. Youre one of the high criteria. Well, they usually all one
or the other. But anyway, so if that was the case, I would have gone to a negative
outcome to motivate him. Okay and thats probably is the answer to that question.

As to the transcripts. Well, good news. Our last transcriptionist just quit. I just got
the email this morning. So, not so good news really but apparently they had a serious
family health issue and there was a- and shes having to spend time in the hospital
with her family member. It looks like its a very serious condition. So, you know that
happens. I feel bad because its been very difficult to get a really good transcriptionist.
But, you know, I mean difficult in the sense that theres just been seemingly running
into people with a lot of issues, but you know I have several more that are ready to
step up to the plate and Im sure well find a fantastic one here real quickly.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

So theyll just keep dribbling in, the videos themselves are much more difficult to
transcribe. The, you know, the question and answer sessions theyre harder too
because when Im interacting with other people its a little harder. But the lessons
themselves, theyre much easier. Ill try to keep the lessons--, Ill try to keep those to
the front of the list and the transcripts for the videos will just keep dribbling in as we
can get them done. So hopefully, thats the answer. I have several that Ill be
reaching out to immediately and well pick the best and the way we go.

All right. There is that one. Lets move to the next question. By the way, Im so
thrilled you guys are in this program and that youre asking all these questions. This is
just fantastic. I cant tell you how happy I am and how excited I am to get up and see
this, you sent to me. Its just really exciting. Im really, really happy about it.

All right. Next question. Lets see, person with the letter M figuring prominently in
their name. Kenrick, the pattern you gave me last call was incredibly subtle and Id
never have recognized it as any kind of influence if I didnt know what to look for. So
nice job setting the bar there. By the way, thats a-, first of all, thank you for that
comment. Second of all, you know, I have two conflicting thoughts in my head. One
is, its you say the pattern was incredibly subtle and second is that you wouldnt know-
, you wouldnt have recognized it as influence if you didnt know what to look for.

So, it is really interesting. This kind of talks about to me the difference between
having proficiency with something and having knowledge of it. And this whole
course, starting right from the advanced hypnosis portion which is a bonus, all the way
through the entire bloody course. Right. Almost all of it, I want you to have absolute
command of. When I say almost, right, because I dont know that youre really going
to want to do the work to do some of the negative stuff that were going to learn.

However, if you do, all of the other work to learn this, you go through the program and
you do the work. Just knowing about what you need to do on a more, shall we say
grey level or even black or even negative, however you want to look at it. You know,
will give you the ability to do it. But if you cant do trance with somebody, right. If
you cant leverage language patterns and all the kinds of things that were talking
about then the odds of you being able to just without any practice whatsoever do
something to, you know, to install something you know dark. Right? Its probably
not going to happen. So youve really said in colloquial language, in common
everyday, you know, language, you just said the difference between really being able
to do something. Knowing it at a core level, right? And being able to understand,
being able to recognize it. Okay.

Recognition and mastery of it are too vastly different things. And you know, in my
life Ive been able to see this very clearly in the things that I learn. Now, Im jumping
back into some music again and, you know, Im excited and ready to have the short
struggle of learning some of the basics, you know, as it applies to now the keyboards.
And then, you know, and then learning it from there.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

You know, I know what to expect and Im going to apply the strategies that I have
available to me to make it more simple and more quick. Ill share some of the results
with you as I progress. So, you know, but this is such an important thing and its
important as you, as you get involved with any learning. Right? Being able to
recognize it is one thing, being able to utilize it is another, having mastery of it is yet a
deeper level. Right. And so, Im glad that you are able to discern it. Im glad you are
able to discern that it had an impact as it relates to persuasion and Im really glad that
now with that recognition, youll be able to develop some real serious ability with this.
So thats great.

The writer goes on and says, A long time ago, a colleague of mine was searching for
some lost object and kept moping around and complaining how she couldnt find it.
Ive read a couple of NLP books and thought I was the bees knees. Thats good. I
like that. I really like that.

Okay. I cant tell you how many people are out there in this world that had read a
couple of NLP books and think they as well must be the bees knees because after all
theyve read the books. Were any of you, and pretty much all of you, have studied
with me know for quite some time to be in this program. And for anybody thats gone
through my works, my programs and actually learned them pretty well. If you go back
and read those books, youll think to yourself, Wow! Man, yeah, I get that. And
yet, the first time you read them it was probably painful to read them. Difficult.

You know, you get through them especially the kind of a scientific background but,
you know, but actually putting them into use would have been nonexistent pretty
much. I cant tell you the number of people to come back and say Wow! You know
after going through this. Then I go back through and read one of the books and oh my
God. I get it.

So good. So he goes on and write, So I was like, well, if you didnt know where it
was, what would that feel like? And how would you picture it in your mind now? And
she just says, I dont know. Cause I dont know where it is. And then shes glaring
at me and says, Your mind tricks will not work on me, boy.

Alright. Well, I think Mr. Brown had been on TV recently and she was on guard. In
any event, could you please give us many trance using double binds for recalling lost
passwords or lost objects for use with myself and maybe a stubborn partner? Yeah. I
have a lot to say about this. And Im not going to say it all right here cause Im going
to talk about it in the first lesson. Okay. This is part of what Im-, Im putting final
touches on it by the way for you. And once you know that youll have that within
about the next 48 hours, maybe faster.

But I talk about this kind of thing because and its not what youre going to expect me
to say right now. I dont think. But the thing of it is, you have to have an expectation
of what you can do. And part of that is understanding what can be done and thats one
of the reasons that youre here. Okay. So, the thing is, you know, if you dont know

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

what can be done then youre going to be applying tools that can be kind of ridiculous.
For example, a mini trance using double binds for recalling passwords.

Let me give you a story. I had a guy call me up. This is back when I had my little
hypnosis office. When I had the hot woman come in that was pretty orgasmic, right?
So, a short time later, I got a call and it was from the security department of a bank.
And they said, you know, We understand that you, you do hypnosis. And I said,
Yes, I do. And they said, Well, we have a vault. And we cannot open the vault
and we would like you to try hypnosis to see if you can help our, you know, our, our,
you know, our manager remember the code. I said, Okay. And they said, But we
have some conditions. I said, What are your conditions? And they said, One of
our security team must be with the manager at all times while you do hypnosis. I was
kind of laughing. That would be fun. I get to hypnotize them both.

And I said, Okay. And they said, And whatever is written in the session. You
know if you write the code or however its done. Whatever is written we would like to
take with us. Wed like to ensure that there would be no way that you could recall it.
And I said, Well, all right. I guess suppose that presupposes I have a bad memory.
But all right. I said, I have no problem with that. And I said, you know-, they said,
Can we come right now? And I said, Sure, come on.

Well, the ending of the story, isnt very good. Unfortunately, I failed. Okay. And I
thought long and hard about that. Why did I fail? And, you know, I think a lot of
people might not share a story with you about why they failed. But on the other hand,
I feel like you deserve to have those stories, you know, I mean with those-, with these
stories, youll quickly begin to put in order even better how the stuff really works.
Okay. So I failed, because its pretty difficult to use trance to recall something if the
subject is not trained.

Now, it wouldnt have been so hard probably had Ive been working with this client
for quite some time. I had trained them to go into a very profound altered state of
consciousness and I had specifically sent them out to get the code or to memorize the
code and to bring it back and recall it to me.

Now, on the other hand, had I had a long period of time with that same client, meaning
four to ten sessions or more. I might well have got them to recall the code. But the
client had never used trance before and was scared to death. Hes sitting there in front
of the security guy and, you know, I did was able to put the client at ease to tell him
its not a big deal.

You know, then the security guard has to interrupt and asked me how to make sure he
doesnt go into trance. I was laughing so hard inside my own head, I cant hardly
stand it. Im like, well just watch how his face. Anyway, I said, well, you know just
to, you know, concentrate on if I write anything because thats what you want to make
sure and leave with.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

Okay. Anyway, so bottom line is that in, you know, half hour or 45 minutes of trying,
they came up with a number of possible combinations, none of which worked. Okay.
And thats too bad. You know, I really wished I could have helped them. I thought
long and hard about it. Why I couldnt have helped them? And I came to the
conclusion that, you know, with the client not being conditioned for trance, with the
stress level being as high as it was, you know, with he had to come up with that code
or that bank was really going to be screwed.

The bank was screwed. The bank, they did not come up with the code. They had, I
dont know-, they had to bring in the, safe specialist from somewhere that ended up
getting into the safe. That was a real problem. I think those conditions would have
helped solve it. I think the problem is solvable. I think that given enough time, I
could have easily, in other words, lets say that there was not pressure on the client to
remember that. That would have been the best thing to do.

So the problem is, and I fortunately was smart enough about this to tell the bank at that
time, I cant promise you any result. Okay. Ive not worked with this client before, I
cant promise you a result. I dont know if I can do it or not. I dont know if the client
can do it. Regardless of whether or not, I can do it. Right. I mean, so lets give it a
shot and well see how it goes. And they said, Okay. Thats fair. Well, anything
right now. We just got to try anything.

Alright. Had the client not been under stress, had it not been a life or death situation
practically. And it wasnt life or death for the client but I think the client felt like they
were going to get, you know, they were going to be thought less of because they
couldnt remember the code. And the bank should have been smart enough to always
have someone in the security department that has a backup combination to the safe.

So you know, I dont know why that didnt happen either. But it was a failure all the
way around. And for whatever reason that was where we found ourselves and I
didnt-, I wasnt able to make it work. So the bottom line and answer to your
questions is, you got to know whats possible, using what tools. Right. You have to
structure the situation such that you have the greatest possibility of success.

Theres a story and I cant-, I cant recall the specifics of the story but, Im going to
actually call some of the-, I can recall the story but the names of the girl. But there
was a very-, its a famous story of a girl who was a-, lived out in the country, a very
modest life growing up for her. She had finally turned around 18 I think or 19 and she
was making her first trip into the city. She was a confident, attractive girl but she was,
you know, had a very proper, prim and proper kind of upbringing. She was not
sexually active but at that point from what we understood. And the-, she was, you
know, she was going into the city to do shopping or something for the first time all by
herself.

And then she got on the train, a gentleman approached her and sat in the same
compartment with her and, you know, he asked her what she was doing. And shes

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

going for a doctors visit. Thats what shes going to do. And she was going to find a
doctor for something and hes in for some health issue. And the doctor-, so the guy
said, Well thats very interesting come to-, come to pass. I am a doctor and thats one
of my specialties and my office is in such and such a place and if youd like Ill be
happy to help you. Why dont you come see me and Ill be happy, well do an exam
and well figure out what needs to be done. She was very happy that that was the
case and so she went in to see the guy.

Well, it so happens he was a con artist and it so happens he was a hypnotist and he
used hypnosis with this girl to control her every which way but lose. He had made use
of her as a-, for sex, he made post hypnotics suggestions so that he was able to give
those suggestions to friends of his and they were able to use her for sex as well. He
was able to induce phantom limb pain and cause her such extraordinary pain and that
the only way that she could solve it was to bring him more money for a consultation,
additional consultations. And when her husband wouldnt pay, he- well, actually I
should state that back.

So, Im not sure if later she got married or if she was married when this began but my
underst--, anyway, she was married during, at least par to this and, and the, you know,
he would induce, yeah, I guess she was married from the beginning. Jared is just
mentioning to me. And so, you know, I guess she was sexually active, in any event,
this guy was able to pass her around and use her every which way and make her bring
him money and this went on for a very, very long time.

Until finally, you know, the family became suspicious of what was going on and they
became suspicious because the hypnotist tried to have her kill her husband. Poison
him and all kinds of things. And the husband-, the hypnotist influence, however, was
not doing very well at that point. He had made quite a number of errors. In any event,
forensic psychologist who was a phenomenal hypnotist, with enough time on his hands
and it means, months and months it took him to figure-, to unwind all these.

He was able to go back and have her remember many of the details that the hypnotist
had even told her to forget. So, he was a far greater strategist. So I want you to stop
and think about something right now. Okay. Strategy is the key to all you are doing
in this program. Its the key to language. Its the key hypnosis. Its a giant key to
everything dark side. Right. You simply have to be greater at strategy than the person
that you are hypnotizing and that doesnt have to mean much.

I mean, you know, lets look at chess. Right. If you are able to outthink the number
of moves of your opponent, the odds are youll win. All you have to be able to do, is
think more clearly to your outcome and since they dont know your outcome its kind
of hard for them to think clearly about whats going to happen. Therefore, youll be
able to win almost every time. Okay. Youll be able to do what you want to do.
Okay.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

I hope this helps illustrate my answer to the question that you asked. Now, going a
little bit further. You asked if I give a mini trance using double bind. So now let me
answer that for you in more of a concrete way. A mini trance using double binds is
not going to be what gets them to remember. The odds are, you can give them a shove
in the right direction but its not going to work. In the same way that it didnt work for
you to say, if you did know where it was, what would that feel like and how would
you picture it in your mind right now.

Okay. All that does is piss people off usually. Now, lets strategies shall we. Lets
take this up a notch. Lets add quotes to it. Huh! Thats really too bad that you lots
that. Man, Im telling you, I dont know where it is. I havent seen it. Ill help you
look for it.

You know, I had a situation at the office a while back. And the boss was looking for
something. Then the boss said to me, you know, I need to just stop and relax and think
about that if I did know where it was and I do know and my conscious know
somewhere then what would that feel like to know. And then I saw him just sit down
and relax and he had that kind of inner knowing sense of, you know, kind of
confidence across his face.

He goes, Yeah. I, yeah. Okay. I feel like what that is. And just now I just need to
picture in my head where it is. And he said, he had a few places come to mind,
anyone out and one of them was actually it and he found it. Anyway, let me help you
look. Lets see if I can help you find it.

Now, in that short period of time that probably if theyre going to find it, that might
get them to relax, lift the tension of off it. And then let them go about finding it.
However, more realistically, what will probably happen is, theyll put it out of their
head temporarily and all of sudden itll pop in as to where it is. Okay.

So thats what I would recommend doing. I wouldnt recommend using double binds,
you know, in lost objects. Thats like an example of what wont work, you know, to
get you what youre trying to get. I mean it might. If its just a matter of a simple jog,
you know, jogging in their mind. Okay, that might work. Right. But theres nothing
you need to do more so that almost what you did the first time but put it in quotes. Put
it in some quotes. Make it more indirect. Okay. Now, if within those quotes you
wanted to use a double bind, you know, then you might have said something like, you
know, so he asked himself, if he didnt know where it was, what it would feel like, and
he told me that the first step for him and he said it helps a lot of people, that hes done
this with is just to feel like he knew where it was.

You know like, lets say that you knew, that you walked in the house with your keys
and you knew you put it on a little hook inside the front door where you always did.
So you know in your mind that thats where your keys are. So if I asked you, do you
know where your keys are? And you go, Yeah. And you could get up and go look

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

and theyre there are on the hook. So you said thats for him what it was like. He
went on to say then if he would just act as if he could remember and ask himself, he
posed the question to himself where is it. And he said to me something to me
something strange, he said, You know something. I dont know if my unconscious is
going to choose to give me a picture or tell me exactly where they are. Or if it simply
going to pop it into my mind a little bit later as I relax. And you know what I didnt
really, I dont really care because either way goes down the road I may end up figuring
out exactly what I did to cause this problem and then eliminating it in the future or just
be thoroughly thrilled that I have what it is that I was looking for.

And I thought, you know I just thought that sounded interesting and strange all at the
same time but it made sense to me and I determined I would remember it. In the case,
I could use it for myself or someone else. Anyway, let me help you find that real
quick. Lets see if we can find it together. Thats plenty enough. Remember, if your
partner was sophisticated enough to know when you said well you probably cause you
were looking like youre a smart ass, when you said if you didnt know where it was,
what would it feel like. I mean, but if they could catch that, theyll probably catch the
double binds. Right. So, I would recommend instead thinking of true logically
realizing the different abilities of each of the different things like were going through
right now. And then pick the best one for the task. And in this case, probably simply
using, putting it in a quote will give you as much power as you can have at that point.

Now, alternatively, and Im spending a lot of time on this but theres some good
reasons for it. Alternatively, lets say that the person youre working with is one of
your trance partners. And lets say that you have conditioned them in trance very
deeply and you could easily sit them down, put them into a trance and have them
remember. Well then by all means do that. Okay.

Lets move on to the next question from a person with the-, of the letter F figuring
prominently in the name. Hello Kenrick! Really excited to be in this course and only
this first videos have already added a lot of value. By all means, Im complete with
what you have offered us so far. Fantastic. One thing I would like to understand
better is, what we can expect to accomplish with covert hypnosis as opposed to formal
trance. A-ha! You see. Exactly what I was talking about. Youre thinking it through
strategically.

Thats right. What are the pros and cons to both approaches and what can we expect
to do in formal trance that would be more with covert? Thanks and waiting for the
beginning of the course. Great! Youre going have to wait just a little bit more
because thats actually part of whats in the first lesson. Okay.

So, let me give a little hint. Okay. Think of things that are more conversational for
covert. Think of things more elaborate for full-on trance. Think of covert as a bridge
to get to full-on trance if you want to do that. Okay. So well go--, Ill go very in
depth in the first lesson with that. That is something that were going to be covering.
Okay.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

So let me ask you to just hold on just a little bit and youll get that and then if you
need, you know like more explanation about it, Ill you know, Ill entertain the
question again in whatever form it comes up for you.

Okay. Next question, the person whose name has a P figure in it. Hello Kenrick! I
was reviewing video one and at the six minute mark you make an amended comment
about how you wouldnt do the same today. Were you referring to not wanting to put
a person out to install suggestions but you would want them a little more conscious?
Im having a hard time understanding. Could you expand some more? Thanks.

No, to all of the above. I didnt say I wouldnt do the same today. The amended
comment said at the six-minute mark that I have amended many of my views. I guess
another way to say that would be, my abilities and my understanding has advanced
from then till now. Okay. And so, Im saying that what I was saying then is, I might
want to do more manipulative stuff if I were going to be doing it, you know, I want to
be doing that more when the person is conscious than when theyre out.

Now, I have amended that, that way of thinking in my mind. Okay. Let me tell you
how. If I just had a few minutes. Right. And I just, you know, I just wanted to mess
with someone a little it for whatever reason, Id probably use something more along
the lines of a pattern from the dark side too. Okay. I might use a bit of covert
induction strategies to kind of put them out a little bit and then whip one of those
patterns out on them and leave it good enough at that.

I mean thats probably enough for most circumstances. So there are the covert
hypnosis part, help me in opening up their mind so as to eliminate critical thinking and
were going to explore several definitions of trans in lesson one. But here, Im using
the one of, you know, eliminating critical thinking. Okay. And whip in one of those
nasty little patterns and away I go.

Now, lets say I wanted to do something far more serious. I wanted to install a
multiple personality. Right. There I would use full on trans. So I made that reference
at mark six-, at the six-minute mark I should say. To simply make-, help you to make
sense of the idea that, you know, Im-, you know, not everything has to be done just
with a quick covert thing. It can be done with a very profound, you know, hypnotic
session of which its very covert.

In the sense that you dont remember squat from what you did. Okay. But still thats
what I meant by that. I hope that helps. Okay. Another question from the same
person. In video one, you mentioned how you can elicit someones strategy in order to
help the hypnotic subject give the outcome they desire.

Ive seen all the videos and theres a lot of information. So I dont know if you
covered it later on or not. If not, can you describe how you would do that or is the

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

same as getting someones criteria in order to elicit the strategies for changing
hypnosis?

Yes, its the latter. Its getting someones criteria. Its eliciting how they do things.
Like how the buy, how they become convinced. How they fall in love. Whatever it is
you want them, you might be wanting them to do. You can elicit that strategy. You
can do it through meta-programs. You can do it through, you know, actually
revivifying a time in the past when they did it. There are all kinds of ways you can do
this.

You know, but thats what I was talking about. Basically, you know, revivifying a
time from the past and asking them the process of how they did that. What came first?
What came second? What they see or feel? Or getting their criteria and eliciting the
strategies that way. So, change is change whether using trans or not. And change uses
trans whether you think you are or not.

Okay. Heres the next question. Jared said that the course can go in different
directions depending on questions and participation. As a novice, I wouldnt even
know what those directions could be. So maybe you could throw it out there and take
a vote. Okay. Let me explain what we meant by that.

So for example, today I am going through the questions with you. And as I do that,
lets say that I get a number of questions that are going in the same direction. And I
think to myself, Wow! You know, in the next lesson, I need to expand on that
somehow. Okay. Then Im going to work that in. Or lets say, I think to myself,
You know what, wow. I need to develop an entirely new learning session to cover
that. Or, I need to amend the one thats coming to clue that.

So it will be something like that. Okay. It will be something like, lets say that after
lesson one, everyone is just wild about it particular part of it. Theyre going, Oh my
God! I got to, you know. So, you know, I like to go into that further. Okay. Well,
then I could amend, you know, part of the next lesson to include further discussion
about that if need be.

So isnt that were taking votes, you know, its more like if I see it the same thing
repeated over and over. If enough of the people are interested in something, you
know, if the group is leaning in a direction or another direction, I too will
accommodate and lean there. Ive already, you know, Ive already got the whole five
modules or whatever more is coming. I have got them all, all planned out.

You know, there and theyre huge. Theyre gigantic. Theyre intimidating to me.
Theres so much for me to do. But nonetheless, you know, my point is and thats why
I dont have the date exact because after one of these calls, if theres anything that
comes up then Im going to add it to the program and make sure you get it
immediately instead of just plow on as if, you know, what youre-, whats going on

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

doesnt matter. Its not like theres directions that we can vote on. Its hopefully, that
makes it a little bit more clear.

Alright. Next question. Hello Kenrick. During, doing this course reminds of your
story about happened-, reminds of your story about what happened to you. There we
go. I couldnt speak today. But theyre no longer true that used to be. Were you in a
trans or mild trans? What was the situation that allowed this to happen to you as it
relates to this course? Thanks.

Alright. Well, I dont want to just rag on the guy that did this. Okay. I have a love,
pain, I wouldnt say hate exactly although I used to have that. You know, it kind of
experience with this guy. It was because of the timeframe that I was with him. Okay.
And my history sounds bad doesnt it? When I studied with him, I was never with him
in that sense. Okay. But when I was studying with him, you know, it was a timeframe
and it was a very difficult timeframe to say the very least. A very stressful timeframe
for him. And thats kind of an understatement. Thats a huge understatement.

And so, you know, to make a long story short. I think every time I was with him, you
know, studying with him, I was in a trance. Not a full on formal trance but certainly a
trance. I mean, number one, whenever youre learning anything new, youre in a
trance. As you are now.

You know, but I mean its true. You know, youre listening on the phone, in timely
youre trying to make sure you get everything, you know, youre waiting to see, you
know, if you know what Im saying or if its relating to something new. Youre
altering your consciousness and going deeper into a more fully and comfortable level
where you can learn everything Im saying and take it in at the deepest level of your
being.

So, you know, I mean every time I will hand that kind of situation with him, I was in
an altered state. Was it a, you know, was it a very formal one? You know, clinically
induced. No. Didnt have to be. He didnt do much with it either. Right. He didnt
do all that way. He just said, you know, as long what it used to be. It so happen that I
really locked on to something that was no longer to what it used to be and he was
really good at anchoring it. And he fired it off at, you know, at my core values, you
know, at who I am.

And it made a fog come over my head. I felt the minute he did it. I felt it started to
move over my head. Kind of like, I dont know, I remember once being at the ocean
and watching, literally watching fog come rolling in. We were sitting at a restaurant
eating and it just rolled in, rolled right over the restaurant and it made it look it was
cloudy out. Like, you know, just grey and dismal. And a little later the fog rolled on
and it was beautiful sun shiny day. Thats what it felt like and I can see it rolling in. I
could feel it covering. I can feel it-, I didnt know what happened. I had no clue. I
just thought it was just talking and playing.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

But later it get worse and worse and worse until finally, you know, I just, you know, I
could get up and go to work but I didnt know why I was going to work. I could get
up and do what I had to do but I didnt really know why. I didnt feel like myself. It
was, you know, finally, I snapped out of it. I would not have snapped out of it, I dont
think had he anchored it I would have snapped out of the sense that I would have
learned, you know, I would have basically had to start over again in the certain way of
looking at it and figure out what was important to me in life and what motivated me
and what part would have taken five or six times as long probably. Not just six
months, it might have taken many, you know, good number of years.

How does it relate to this course? You know youre saying that as it relates to the
course well, look. Using a covert trance, you can easily put someone out especially
once you found some things that made them who they are. And how would you do
that? You could ask them. How-, you know, tell me. How do you know like-, who
are you at the deepest core? Like whats really you? You know, lets say that youre
asking you that. I said, well--, Im a really great communicator. Thats how I see
myself. A really persuasive communicator. I see myself as that.

You know, Im a person who is very interested in very deep psychological and
metaphysical things. And, you know, thats almost enough. You know. I could say to
you I, I am working hard to be a great husband and father, you know. I mean that, that
would, you know, that says a lot about me right there. Okay. So now, youre saying
youre just simply take that in. You make note of those things. You use a covert
strategy to alter my consciousness a little bit and as were doing that you just simply
almost in passing go, You know, I was thinking about something the other day. Kind
of a funny way of thinking about something. But let me ask you, whats something
thats no longer true for you but used to be?

You know, I mean, it could be anything. But just thinking that question for this, pretty
wild question. What something thats no longer true for you but used to be? And lets
say I said to you, Well, it used to be yesterday and now its not. And you go,
Alright. But is there anything more personal to you? Well, yeah, I used to live on
this house. I used to live in this house on the street, on Yam Street and I dont
anymore. Oh okay. So its no longer true, you dont live there anymore, right?
No. But you used to. Yeah, thats right. I sure did. I used to.

Okay, fantastic. You anchor it at that point. So when youre thinking about that its
no longer true. How do you think about that house? You know, its just no longer
true is it? Me, anchor. Right. And then you locate this, thats really something. So if
you then continue with a little bit of deepening language or just, you know, or just
confusion language even in the trance. You simply fire the anchor as you talk about--,
you know, its interesting you mention that youre, you know you thought yourself to
be a, and by the way listen to my language start to change. You thought yourself to be
a great communicator.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

Id step into the role of doing the persuasion. Not the guy being persuaded. But Im
already using language tenses to reverse this in the guys head. Okay and at the same
time Im firing the no longer true but used to be. Youre no longer a great
communicator but you used to be. I really like talking like that, bugs me. Not does it
really say that I went through. In any event, you know, so you fire off of those that
against those things in the persons life and go, well you know, I just had been
fascinated about how the brain works and how things are, you know.

Now, you want to be real dick then go ahead and future pace it. You know, I mean, if
you want to be nice, dont. They may come out of it someday. But that is-, that was a
situation happen to me and that is how it would relate to you being able to do it using a
covert trance and very conversational. It is, its devastating that kind of thing.
Absolutely, devastating. Now, start to think strategically. What must be true in order
for you to be able to do that?

Well, that you have a reason to talk with the person long enough to be able to do that.
That you have, that its framed in the context of you can have a personal conversation
with this person. So with this me within five minutes of meeting them. Probably not.
Within five minutes of meeting them, could you have the outcome of gaining a lot of
confidence, trust and rapport? Yes. That you could do.

Could your next outcome be the leverage that to get them to do some fractionation
type stuff with hypnosis? Yes, you sure could. Even covertly you could do that. That
could be in your intention. Okay. Could it be that after a couple of times of kind of
putting them out and bringing them back then you could suggest maybe a, you know, a
covertly a more, a more, you know personal type of conversation. Could you do that
by saying to them, for example, you know its just amazing I feel that you know I just
feel really comfortable talking with you and it isnt always that I feel that way, you
know what I mean?

And goes, yeah. Alright. As long as the person says, yeah well theyre feeling the
same thing right? So, and that will program them to feel it too. So then from there
you go right into eliciting who they are, eliciting no longer true but used to be,
slamming it. Deciding whether or not you want to future pace it and then going on
about your life. Right.

So, you can even find out if its working by asking them, when you think about who
you are right now, how do you feel? Do you feel anything kind of weird or different?
How do you fee? And they go, yeah, I do. I feel really like, I dont feel very good.
Well, huh. I didnt either when I was first asked that. But anyway, interestingly its
your point of view on it. You know, really interesting.

All right. Well I got to run. You take care. Right. So, you know, but I mean that
there is an absolute way right there to use what were doing with hypnosis and
everything else. And see because of your exposure so far or even just to the first
bonus material in the program, now you could start recognizing when theyre going

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

out. Now you can start recognizing when theyre going further in when you can, you
know, when youve put them in that relax state and you can up the frequency of your,
of the use of your language patterns, right. So pretty slick.

Alright. Lets go to the next question. An H figures prominently in the person here.
In video one, you said if you wanted to maneuver--, oh did I already asked that? Well,
maybe I answer that-, let me just, let me read it anyway. In video one you said if you
wanted to maneuver someone strongly you would leverage the rapport from the trance
rather than using the trance itself. I think thats where I was talking about too. Ive
kind of grown from that and I would do it either way now. Depending on what I
wanted to do and how much time and what the relationship was with the person.
Notice that if Id never met the person. I didnt know him from Adam but I knew they
were in X place today. And I knew I could run into them if I went to that place. Well,
that doesnt provide me with near the context that it would if I were knowing that this
person was going to be some place tonight with a friend of mine and I was going to go
and this friend of mine was going to introduce me to this other person and set the stage
for there to be an interaction.

Vastly different abilities, one to the other. Okay. Imagine, you know, you get on the
bus today and some guy walks in and says, Hi! How are you? And you go, Fine.
And he goes, Great. Im Dr. So and so. Im just really curious. Whens the last time
youve had a rectal exam? I look at the guy and go, What? Im not, you know,
were not having this conversation. Yeah, Im a doctor. Dont worry about it, you
know. So when was the last time you had any? He takes out a notepad and starts
writing. Hes, Well just, well just do a little quick clinical, you know, just do a little
freebie for you here. You know, thanks anyway. Ill go see my doctor.

In other words, yeah he might be able to set it up to get you to do it, better would be
for him to get you just like the other guy did, the first story I told you I think. You
know, to get the girl come in and see him. Well better for him to say, you know, shake
your hand, tell, you know, say, Hi. My name is Dr. Smith. Well, you know, my
name is so and so and you know go from there. You know, Im a medical doctor and
you know and by the way, Im doing a free-, some free exams. Were doing a study,
love youre about the right age. Would you want to come in and let me do a study? It
can really, really help you. You know, to make sure that everything is safe for you as
you proceed in years. I mean you know that might be a way that youd actually go see
the guy.

If at that point in the office, he induced trance. Okay, he could do that at that point.
Thats, you know, all of this starts to come together to make for what you might want
to do. Walking up to someone youve never met, youve never known and, you know,
and you wanted to do something to them, I would, I would separate that into a number
of parts. There is the meaning of them and the establishing of rapport and there will
be the suggestion, you know, if you want to make him hypno spy out of them for
example that they will come to you and, you know, let you start working with them for
whatever reason that, you know, you could figure out how strategize that.

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

So that then from within the context of doing hypnosis work with them, then you
could actually turn them into a hypno spy with these. And the next question this
person asked is: You briefly used your microphone for effect on the video, how do
you feel about using microphones, amps and headphones, headphone setups with
hypnosis clients? Wow, excellent question. I absolutely love it. Do it.

If you have that kind of business and thats what you want to do, then I would tell you
without hesitation, absolutely do it. There is nothing like learning how to maneuver
the microphone and the recording setup and editing and everything else, depending on
what you wanted to do to be able to have a tremendous impact vocally. Okay.

You know, think of what a VO guy is, voice over guy. Right. These are the people
and its called voice over when you hear the ads on radio, you know, you hear the guy
in the background on the television. These are voice over actors and theyre called
VO actors, voice over actors. What does that mean? How was it an actor to read an
ad? Well, no, you have to be an actor. You have to read the ad. Today only!
Sundays, Sunday, Sunday You know, they have been, theyre acting. Right. They
have to get themselves into the mood and the emotion of it. But, you know.

Its the same to be, you know, a spiritual actor. It will be called the minister. You
know. And these guys know when theyre preaching, not some of them trying to be,
you know, they take the persona of a Im the normal guy and Im just having a
converstation with you here. Okay. Well then hes acting the part of the normal guy
having a conversation. You could look at it that way or hes acting the part of the, of
the authority, the religious authority whos going to repeat in threes and on and on,
you know, in order to get you to do what he thinks is the right thing for you to do.

Okay. The bottom line is, a VO actor is because they act in one of the tools of a VO
actor. Well, their script, their voice tone, speed and control of the way they deliver
and their microphone. Now, weve just invested quite heavily in new recording
equipment. I have new microphones coming, I have new-, I have a whole new bunch
of stuff that weve just invested in. And within the next couple of weeks youll begin
to start being able to take advantage of that. Youll be able to hear what Im doing
with it.

And, you know, Im passionate about that. I love that kind of thing. Okay. I think it
will help you a lot. Let us talk a little bit about the pros and cons even though its a
little bit out of the mainstream of this conver-, you know, what the course is but you
asked what do I think the pros and cons are. You say, I dont want to become lazy as I
never saw Erickson looking like an MC. Right.

You didnt see him looking like an MC because they didnt have that stuff back then.
You know, you didnt see him get-, you didnt see him getting, getting in the-, well,
you didnt see him doing a lot of technical things that didnt exist. You know, were

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

talking about. You didnt see him with a personal computer in front of him either. It
didnt exist, you know.

Well, it didnt really exist. I remember back around 1977, 78, back in 76 or so in
school, I-, they had a giant box with great big papers that youd- like card, paper card
youd feed into it, they had wholes punched in the card and that would program the
little computer, or the big computer to do something. And it would be basically simple
math routines and that was a computer.

And the science guy was all proud of it, nobody could touch his computer and it had to
be kept especially and all the stuff. There is now, there is no computer that you put on
and whipped around and found whatever you wanted and recorded. So dont worry
because you didnt see Erickson do it, then you shouldnt it, man. Okay.

A few more pros and cons, the client will get conditioned to hearing you in
headphones and thats okay because you could leverage from that and tell them, of
course whether youre listening to me with your headphones on, and having all of
those feelings that are created in that way, you will have all of those same feelings
even when we talk just like this. Youll be amazed.

You may be even surprised one day as we talk like this that when were done, you
didnt have your headphones on. You may reach up to take them off and think, Oh!
And Im on thats interesting. So, you could do stuff like that. Okay. The other
thing is, is that you will get a little dependent upon it, dependent upon it okay. You
will as I am when I do, you know, when I do my learning sessions. Im dependent
upon having a really professional setup.

Im dependent on knowing how to use my mic and how to make it work the best as
possible. Im dependent on a lot of things. You know, so will you. Thats not a bad
thing. What youll have to do is work the workflow into your life. So youll have to
be, you have your system setup, you know, right there by your-, you know, where you
do your consulting. Itll have to be more or less unobtrusive somehow. Youll have to
have the setup for the client there. And way you go.

Now, you can absolutely patch your speaking through a microphone right through and
into the MindSpa but you better practice with it a big number of times first to make
sure that its working right. For example, you could patch an amplifier, a mixing, a
mixing board, you know, small one lets say two or three channel sound card or
whatever. You could, you could mi-, you could put right into so you have a mic and
the output of the soundcard or the mixer would be a-, would go into the input of the
MindSpa and then out into the clients ears.

Okay. So as you speak in the microphone but you then need to then do a lot of
speaking with you listening to yourself. I would do some recording. Remember that
mics usually have a proximity effect, meaning that when you get real close to it, itll
make you sound more boomy. Okay. That might have clipped so meaning I spoke too

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Dark Side of Covert Hypnosis Coaching Call 2: January 14, 2013 Part A

loud. But if you get real close to the microphone, it has a proximity effect then you
have to learn about that. Google it. Proximity, P-R-O-X-I-M-I-T-Y I think, effect.

And, you know, and youll start to get the understanding of it. If anybody else has any
real interest in that, Ill be happy to go into that at more depth, more depth with you.
Let me also tell you that we are going to-, I am working with a company, theyre
coming out with something spectacular. Im doing a lot of the analysis of what theyre
doing, seeing how it works for the programing that I want to do.

But were coming out with the super advanced new light and sound machine. Far
greater abilities with sound, far greater, greater sound capability/quality and the lights
are spectacular. You have no idea, it can do things, it can jump and down and shake
your hand practically. Itll cost about the same as the, as the MindSpa, youve noticed
that were no longer selling the MindSpa and thats because we are going to something
far more heavy duty. Far big breakthroughs in the stuff that Im going to be taking
advantage of.

I will be programming for it. I dont believe it will obsolete any equipment that youre
using now. There may be some things that will make it obsolete in the sense that, you
know, itll do some of it but not all of it. So, you know, but hey, you know technology
improves and advances and we havent seen any real advances in the technology in
light and sound for a good many years and finally now, theyre coming out with some
just incredible stuff. So I will be bringing it to you in the next couple of months. I
should be able to-, I should have it in my hands.

So well keep you updated. Ive signed, you know privacy, you know that I wont talk
about he stuff yet, so soon as Im released from that, after the stuff is done, I will
absolutely share it with you. Okay. I hope that helped with that question. Moving on.
Will we be looking at some advanced cold reading techniques? This is something I
would love to learn to do well. Do you use them yourself?

I absolutely use them myself. Ill tell you a secret. You ready? I believe that cold
reading techniques

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