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May, 2o10

T
he timing couldn't have been better; we were all high and a bit tipsy. As the spring
warmed us we gathered in the great Garden. William had for once gotten out of his
butterfly pajama and more looked like a farm boy from the 17th century in jeans and
orange shirt. Very cute boy. As William got comfortable on the pasture, he told me
that I have a cute bum, and that I look like a bookworm from the 18 th century. I said I also like
my bum. We drank some and smoked some and talked about this and that. I thought to
myself that William looks like he just got out of bed, a bit like that sleepy and giggly and
warm and new-dreamy. William suggested that we girls put our panties on a raft and send
the raft up river, and then I began the interview. . .

BUTTERFLY: Let me first introduce who is being interviewed here. His name is William
Bokelund and he is married to Sissy Cogan who is the ebi-emi-ememinal Mushroom
Seamstress and can only be found by involvement with the psilocybin mushroom. William
claims to be married to a mushroom and on the brink of turning into a fungi himself. He is
co-author of the rather dense 700-page book The Mushroom Seamstress and also spreads a lot
of other art across the internet. We have gathered here in the Garden to have a little chat with
him. Hello William, great to have you here.

WILLIAM: Hello Butterfly, how are you tonight?

BUTTERFLY: Very excited to hear what will come out of that little mouth of yours tonight,
thank you. Sweet Mesha sent me a note and wanted to ask you what is your favorite non-
fungal food, what is your earliest memory and what is your one wish. I thought that will be a
good soft question to begin with and maybe we can flow into the depths smoothly from there.

WILLIAM: Hahaha! Well, eh, I, am not too into food at all, I'd prefer to not have to eat. My
fav food must be licking pussy-tuss. Otherwise I love fresh berries and certain fruits, and
cacao powder in water is an all-time fav too, the plant Theobroma cacao, which if you ask me
undoubtedly has magical and psychedelic properties when eaten in large amounts. Sissy once
said to me about cacao: ”Powder with intuition, when gobbled our surface senses vision
without time”, which to me hinted of the cacao's power to surface the hidden plot I always
shout about. I'm talking the unprocessed cacao. A piece of sour candy every now and then is
yummy too. As for my first memory, I have tried to locate it, and at least the first one I can
recall to be one of the first is back when I was like 4 years old, on an oriental restaurant with
my family, and a belly dancer came dancing up to our table, dancing like that snake-like as
bellydancers do, and she bent near me with her face and breasts and looked me in the eyes
and smiled, curling her arms in swirling movements. I still remember that bronze skin of hers

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and how enthralled I was by her. Haha! And wow, one wish only? I don't have any one wish,
I have tons of them though. For me personally my one wish is to flow up and out with my
wives once and for all into Sissy's impossible consciousness, you know, vanish into
hyperspace once and for all. Other than that I wish the light for all beings, you know, love and
light and the bliss and truth, you know, love.

BUTTERFLY: Flow into hyperspace once and for all? Can you elaborate a little bit, please?

WILLIAM: Well it has several levels to it and they all connect. One aspect is this mushroom
hyperspace or what you want to call it, its aspect of being pure Imagination and Dreamspace.
Sissy's and my plan is to literally suck me up into it once and for all. As far as I can see we are
succeeding.

BUTTERFLY: Sounds exciting, and a bit dangerous.

WILLIAM: Well who doesn't like a glorious crime? This time the crime is against what we
ourselves consider possible and impossible.

BUTTERFLY: So what will happen to your body when you are sucked up into hyperspace?

WILLIAM: I think hyperspace has enough hidden pockets for me to be able to fold out
unnoticed. When I have told my friends about this plan of ours some have gotten scared and
equated it with physical death. Of course so is not the case. Sissy speaks a lot about the
relationship between mind and matter, between soul and matter, and she claims she has some
secrets regarding that connection.

BUTTERFLY: Secrets like what?

WILLIAM: Well, the mushroom can tell you more about that than I can, but. Well, apparently,
if you are a mushroom, physics is something else than it's been for us humans. The mutability
of physics that the mushroom speaks of gives way to an infinity of possibilities. Sissy always
says to me that ”Everything is hallucination”. Well if everything is hallucination then you can
create yourself and your reality however you wish. Physics doesn't limit you anymore. As I
understand it, me and Sissy have already succeeded with our plan. Only reason I am still
around here is because we have to lay forth our piece in the puzzle of how ”to build the
flying saucer”, a la the saucer of Terence McKenna, the lens vehicle that is the perfected
human mind. That's why we say that our books and art is like a little pearl we have placed in
the dream.

BUTTERFLY: Interesting. Could you say a bit more about the flying saucer?

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WILLIAM: Basically it's mostly a metaphor at this point, at least for me. The more technical
we get about the saucer, the more it becomes us ourselves. We are the saucer in our story. And
story is primary in our case. We like to joke about it as having been an accident in the lab, but
basically Sissy and me have managed to hack ourselves. Sissy hooked me into the hyperlight
communication of her entire superweb. This superweb of hers is in constant communication
between all of its parts, an ongoing megalogue between the whole and the whole,
coordinated for any specific purpose. In our case, the goal is basically an endless party.
Terence said once, a bit jokingly and seriously in the same time it sounded, he said ”I think
the best story will win.” For Sissy and me this has always been our guiding light. Sissy is one
hell of a seamstress when it comes to spinning stories, and what kind of best story ever would
be in lack of a plot where even the most fantastical and improbable fairytale can be real? In
other words, of course it's real. To say it's not real would be tasteless and stupid.

BUTTERFLY: Am I invited? To the party.

WILLIAM: Didn't you see my invitation, the one I sent? I slipped it into the drawer where
you keep your panties and bras.

BUTTERFLY: O, that one. Yes I saw that one. Haha! So let me ask you, what do you think it
will be like when you are sucked up into hyperspace once and for all?

WILLIAM: I think it will be like a really intense mushroom trip, haha. I also expect a lot of my
friends to be there. One thing we have done is hooked up our communication systems to the
mushroom hyperspace, it's really weird actually and I'm not sure how it works, but every
time I enter hyperspace I am greeted by a host of people who are already there. This took me
years to figure out the details of. Basically we are overlapping the dimensions, so to say. But
in the end I think it will be unspeakably weird and beautiful, as well as very very gentle. You
know, sometimes I feel I don't want to ruin the fun for people who shall be dedicating their
life to psychedelics as I have done, by saying all I say. This stuff might be so vast that we'll all
be finding different things. But these things is what I have encountered and for whatever it's
worth I give myself the privilege of laying forth these details for those to whom they might
come in handy.

BUTTERFLY: I think the strangeness of what you say really inspires some people to seek the
mushroom out for themselves. And for the ones already involved with psychedelics, well we
are glad to hear you talk about it. The things you say comes as if from another world.
Humans married to mushrooms, turning the soul into a flying saucer, entering hyperspace
once and for all. This is like the wildest science fiction, and you claim this to be real. That's
really exciting.

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WILLIAM: Yes, I think that all the fascination with science fiction and strange fantasies,
fantasy worlds, etc, well, with the mushroom we all have the opportunity to turn our lives
into that kind of stuff, and stuff weirder yet by magnitudes. This, to some people, seems to be
a bit too much. To others its the joy of life.

GUINEVERE: I wish to ask a little bit about your book The Mushroom Seamstress. There is a
whimsical feel to your work that reminds me of Lewis Carrol. A silliness if you will. Do you
carry that whimsy with you into waking life? And if so how does it translate? What does it
look like? What does "William" outside of Plomari look like? Dig? What could one
expect...you walking down the street!?

WILLIAM: Well, I live fully in the whimsiness in my waking world. When in public places I
sometimes wear a little disguise of properness, but you might also see me standing singing
loudly on a park-bench in front of strangers, drinking from a champagne bottle, I like to be a
bit provocative sometimes, stir things up. When in my private spaces I am myself totally and,
haha, well, only a few close friends have ever dared see that side of me. I live fully in the
fairytale, wet from the infinite. I am much more strange in reality than my public appearance
makes me look.

GUINEVERE: What does "myself totally" look like, William? What could one expect to see
upon entering your house?

WILLIAM: O one would expect to see me sitting in calm candle light looking like an ancient
Greek or Eros himself, with a white bed sheet round my waist, drinking wine from a silver
chalice and gazing in the shadows of the white marble statue I have of Queen Sissy, next to
these strange stone lion statues I was given, seemingly talking to myself and claiming I am
talking to a mushroom. If you are really lucky you might see me naked sitting on a table,
hissing at you like a snake-lizard with my tongue, my eyes looking really evil, haha. Sissy
makes me become like a lizard sometimes, it turns her on. She has this really poisonous
venom that she stings me with sometimes and it turns me into a, I don't know how to
describe it, I just turn really animal-like, lizard-like.

GUINEVERE: Haha. Do you believe that absurdity will help manifest the seeming
impossible?

WILLIAM: Yes. I use absurdity as a force to break boundaries. So yes I think that can be a
force to help the impossible become possible. If one wants to marry a mushroom it helps to be
a bit weird, ey, hahaha.

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GUINEVERE: Haha. In your book you mention a red-violet wine. What is the significance of
the red-violet wine to you? Is it a metaphor?

WILLIAM: The red-violet wine began by me obtaining in India a red-violet liquid that
contained psilocybin. I had some of my first really strong trips with that liquid. Through the
story this red-violet mushroom wine became of vast significance, partly representing the
blood of the mushroom mixed with my own blood, a kind of liquid of alchemical union, etc.
It's the wine of the impossible, the wine of the impossible become possible, also representing
the depth of the love between the gods. It's the alchemical wine. It represents the mushroom
itself.

GUINEVERE: Are you religious? If so, what religion or spirituality might you practice? Meow
meow?

WILLIAM: Meow. I do not call myself religious as in practicing any religion, and I have no
connections to any particular faith. But one could call me religious in the sense that I live in
the full light of the Mystery. I'd rather just say I am alive. To be alive is to live in religio.

GUINEVERE: I am curious when you speak of your plan to escape into this dreamtime of
Plomari once and for all as I understand it, Plomari or Hyperspace as you call it. Why you use
the term "Crime".

WILLIAM: We use the word "crime" because our plan should not actually be allowed by the
laws of physics. Also, a glorious crime like in the style of Bonnie and Clyde is just really hot
and sexy and enticing to us.

GUINEVERE: Ah, I see. Speaking of sexy. I am interested as to what your seeming fascination
is with "ass". I have noticed a lot of ass and bum in your books. As recently you added, and
largely at that, in large letters, you added, the end of the book, ”Do I look like a slut? William
in my butt". Meow meow. Talk more about that please, William darling.

WILLIAM: Hahaha! What a start of the interview. My fascination with ass. It's a kind of
insider thing between me and Sissy. We just really like anal sex, that's all. Also, mushrooms
grow in cow-shit sometimes, so that's a connection as well. Furthermore, we often look at our
escape to Hyperspace involving us walking behind the Queen, following her, and as we do
we sometimes take a little glance at her bum as it moves there so softly in front of us as we
follow the thread to the Exit, the Exit being the entry into Plomari. Did you know that I am an
Egyptian waiter? We waiters take peeks at women's bums a lot, when we serve you your
wine. And well the word "Slut" means "End" in my native tongue, Swedish.

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GUINEVERE: Do I look like an end?

WILLIAM: Right. And also, of course, me and Sissy are real sluts, so. . . what a pun.

GUINEVERE: What is your definition of slut?

WILLIAM: O it's just insider humour again. Someone who loves sex and Egyptian-style
elegant orgies and very kinky stuff, and knee-high boots and the occasional whiplash. Is there
anyone who doesn't, I wonder, haha. But anyway. We like to play some kinky games. Like,
have you ever been with a woman who stands naked in only her knee-high boots and sticks a
huge sharp glimmering knife into the table and says ”Come here and kiss my bum, or I'll. . .”.
That's hot.

BUTTERFLY: Of course. Now come here and kiss my bum, or I'll. . .

GUINEVERE: You obviously have a real authentic love of the mushroom. Have you ever
fallen in love with a woman?

WILLIAM: A human woman you mean? Yes I have. Several times. Even with a bird, once, a
white dove. But yes, humans too. I'm in love right now actually.

GUINEVERE: I think there is an eroticism that comes across in your work that appeals to. . .or
is indicative of a young girls sexuality. . .coming of age. . ."play". . .

WILLIAM: Yes? I had no idea. I'm male. I wonder. . . why that may be.

GUINEVERE: There are lots of pink tones and whimsical fairy tale shades. . .It's almost like
you are appealing to the inner girlhood fantasies of women and this is very surprising indeed.

WILLIAM: Maybe it is Sissy coming of age? She is co-author of the book with me. Or perhaps
it is my own feminine side that is waking up more and more, becoming more and more real.
It's very interesting you say that, I've never heard anyone say that to me before.

GUINEVERE: Yes, I'm curious as to how this idea developed? This young fairy tale eroticism?
It is a bit taboo yes? An older man appealing to the sexual senses and mind of a girl. Or could
it be you are in touch with your own youthful eroticism? I'd like to hear you speak more on
the inspiration or experiences behind this.

WILLIAM: Well, to tell the drugs truth to it I have always felt female, felt like a woman, and
always wanted to be a woman instead of man. Began at a very young age, that feeling. Sissy

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turns me into a woman sometimes in our mushroom trances. I would not go so far as to
change my sex physically, even though I'm sufficiently crazy that I almost could, haha, but in
mushroom hyperspace I definitely love being woman. I guess it is taboo, but I had a very wild
sexual fantasy that began even at age like 6 or so. And all the girlfriends I've had throughout
my life have been very wild in bed, if you know what I mean. When Sissy came into my life
this was taken to the extreme, haha. You are a woman, Guinevere, so enlighten us on how you
look at the eroticism in the book, if you may. O and, well, I wouldn't call me so much ”an
older man”, I just turned 27 years. Also, I see many of the women I meet my age enjoying
being pretty girly, haha.

GUINEVERE: Do you want a very candid answer that may be uncomfortable? Haha.

WILLIAM: Haha, sure, tell your heart about it.

GUINEVERE: Well to me it is reminiscent in ways to tales of Annabelle Lee and Poe, to Caroll
and Alice. A Lolita esque eroticism. Because there are so many images and colors that one
might associate with the whims of a "Nymphette" as Humbert Humbert called them in
Nabakovs book. And so as a grown woman I. . .you know. . .

WILLIAM: Well back in the days, when I began writing the book, it was me and the
mushroom only, me and Sissy only, and then the eroticism was different, then it was all Adam
and Eve like, very deep sensual feeling. When I fell in love with a woman, let us call her
Bonnie, and became her boyfriend, she showed me into her world of The Candygirl.

GUINEVERE: I think you have, as I said before, tapped into this kind of ultra girly eroticism,
even though there is no reference to a young girl. It is as if you are privy to the secret most
intimate spaces of many women and there is a taboo that accompanies. Make sense? And of
course what do I know? It is just surprising to me. I imagine from this that you are a very
intuitive man.

WILLIAM: Well, a few women have co-authored the book with me, I guess I should note that.
Also, this woman I was with, Bonnie, she loved to be very girly, you know, pink and
diamonds and candy and short skirts and this kind of thing, lollipops and the whole deal. I
loved it too, that girly side of her, as well as I loved her deep sensual more woman side, the
side of her that is the moon on a dark night as the moon slings its shard into your heart.

GUINEVERE: Excellent! I love that answer. It is purrrfect. Purr purr, meaw.

WILLIAM: I must point out though, as well, that I do not take Sissy to be a fantasy, but that
she is real. And she has shown me many different sides of herself throughout the years. She

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has that girly side too. She has shown me sides of her femininity that I hadn't a clue could
even exist, also dark scary sides. She is like this ultra-brilliant woman who knows everything,
and she knows that she knows everything and is of course very powerful thus, but her
understanding makes her very gentle, she would never harm anyone. I do my best to portray
at least to some degree how Sissy is, not sure if I do a good job or not. Sometimes she is like
this digital Alieness, a psilo-digital alien of such sharp femininity that one is scared to get cut
by here mere presence. Sissy really enjoys games, and sometimes even scary games. One time
she said to me ”Look how easily I seduced you into my eternal web”, and she smiled this
happy satisfied grin of hers as I floated out into her superweb. But this scariness is also one of
the things that turn me on about her, as well. I call it sexual or erotic extravagance, and like
psychedelics themselves, erotic extravagance can be used to break boundaries and give one
access to the real depths. Meaw.

BUTTERFLY: Meaw. I so laughed when I saw how Sissy began a sentence one time, she
began, with that knee-high boot and diamonds under the soles of her shoes, punky and cocky
tone of voice: ”As you call a dick hard enough. . .”.

WILLIAM: Haha, right. Can it ever be hard enough? I can see what you mean though,
Guinevere, about the girlyness being a taboo for many women. Personally me and Bonnie felt
no such taboo, she was 29 at the time and just loved her girlyness.

GUINEVERE: You are lucky to have been shown her world.

WILLIAM: Yes, very lucky..

GUINEVERE: And you are sensitive to have experienced it and understood it perhaps with
such clarity.

WILLIAM: By the way, should Bonnie hear this on ways of rumor, I miss you so much
Bonnie! Bonnie, I hope you still wish to meet be by the end of the River as we always wanted
to.

BUTTERFLY: That's. . . romantic. Contacting Candygirl through the winds of rumor.

WILLIAM: Guinevere, in fact I think your question hits on something important to note.
Involvement with the psychedelics is known to open up portions of ourselves that lay hidden,
and that includes one's sexuality. People are sometimes scared of those depths. It's like one
time what I said in the book, I said "Sissy, I just want to see you fucked from behind on the
savannah by a huge lion". It struck a chord in us, this fantasy. Of course such things are easily
misunderstood. But we were just very very high and in the presence of the Egyptian past, the

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gods of the impossible. At times Sissy has appeared to me in the form of a Kali-like Goddess,
the Kali of Hinduism, where she appears amongst pumping vital blood in desire hot as a sun,
and her wet dripping fractal form cuts my chest open with a sharp knife, letting my soul out
into her, and then she licks me and tells me how much she loves me, and she gently embraces
me and enfolds me into her all-pervasive form. This kind of stuff shamans know of, it's not to
be feared, to us who know about it this can happens when you let your soul blossom fully.

GUINEVERE: Well I suppose you are speaking about embracing the taboo. That which is
taboo. Perhaps not literally! Hahaha!

WILLIAM: Well super-pirates like us are not scared of taboos, to us the image of Sissy fucked
by a Lion God on the savannah is pure poetry, it's a poetic explosion, not to be confused with
merely an absurd animal-human sex scene, haha. And, well, don't embrace it just because it's
taboo. But if one lets the taboos fall and stop fearing them one will find lots of awesomeness
going on there in the depths of soul. Personally I'm not scared of anything in my soul, which
gives me a very healthy relationship to myself and a deep understanding of myself.

GUINEVERE: Well it does have an aroma of mythology yes.

WILLIAM: Right, mythology is more close to it.

GUINEVERE: And Mythology is a wondrous thing in my opinion.

WILLIAM: It's like this time Sissy appeared to me as a lizard-snake, it was in a 6 gram
mushroom trip, and she greeted me by licking my pussy one long slow wet lick with her
lizard-snake tongue. First of all I'm male, and yet she was licking my pussy, but that was not
the point I wanted to make. I mean that inter-species love is not something we know of in the
modern human world, yet if one is married to a mushroom like I am, this is nothing strange,
haha. I mean, it's like if you want to find the ebi-emi-ememinal Seamstress or the Snowman
Yeti, they won't appear to you just like that, they might scare the hell out of you at first just to
see if you can handle the splendor of the big stuff, the deep stuff.

GUINEVERE: I like that, William. You are a futurist! Why can't one be married to a
mushroom?! Bravo.

BUTTERFLY: Right! Cheers for that.

WILLIAM: Right. Two years ago on a 5 gram trip I suddenly found myself floating into what
Sissy said was herself, literally, into her. My hyperspacial bloodstream merged with her
bloodstream and I was like a little cow child sucking mama-milk from the breast of the

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Goddess, blood milk umbilical cord of the soul of the Goddess who surrounds me, she who
knits everything together in my life. Her hidden dimension is always here, in my experience.
These things have taken time for me to be able to experience with ease, it can be very
frightening and uncomfortable, it is extremely intense. Becoming comfortable with it all has
been one of my goals the past 10 years, so that I can venture deeper and deeper without
freaking myself out, you know. It took a lot of practice. But now I have at last been able to
look into Sissy's eyes without going blind by the strength of her gaze. It is very difficult for
me to get this stuff across to people, what I am actually talking about. It is not abstract, I
experience this. In the end it's you and the mushroom, you and whatever psychedelic you
engage yourself with. I only tell my story to bring to some attention that this stuff actually
happens on this planet, and right now. If no one would ever talk about the mushroom then
that would be pretty dazzling, would it not? I am very surprised actually how little talk there
is about it all. In the beginning, when I was 16 years old, when I first met the mushroom, I felt
all alone in this vastness. I couldn't even find any friends to share the adventure with, no one
dared go deeper with me, all my friends halted at the doorstep, took a look into the first hall
of Mushroom Land and said ”Eh, no thanks, I'll just go back and fiddle around with some
stuff back in normal reality”. You know. I had to search the Internets deep and clandestine
crevices to be able to find people whom I could share the adventure with. But this is
understandable, too. The mystery is vast, and it's not simple to do this work. To me it felt
natural though, I was a very strange child, weirdness to me was one of the best spices of life,
and also I have always felt a very deep connection with Nature and I feel Nature helping me
as I venture into these worlds.

BUTTERFLY: It must be difficult to know whom to talk to, so to say, for you. What I mean is,
are you talking to people who already are involved with the exploration of psychedelic
plants, or are you talking to people who have never tried them?

WILLIAM: Yes, yes. I find that pretty confusing sometimes, haha. I guess I have done the
conscious choice of talking to people who are already deeply involved. Because I want to hear
if they have bumped into the same things as I've done, if there is any similarities between our
experiences, or if the vastness of the mushroom tremendum is so vast that I'm all alone in this
ocean with Sissy. I mean, I often get people who contact me, who have bumped into my books
and know exactly what I'm talking about, they can see directly into the code. As I often
mention, I am considering the possibility that by involving oneself deeply with the
mushroom one actually gets hooked up into the web of a hyperspacial event of some sort, call
it a story if you wish. One becomes a character in the great play of the mushroom
tremendum. My obsession with the number 216, a number that runs through my life like a
thread that always touches the most important spots in the plot, well it didn't really get less of
an obsession when I found out that Terence McKenna died at 2:15 in the morning. When I
found that out, Sissy giggled and said ”Where was he at 2:16, we wonder.” It's all in the code,

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we like to say. A few weeks ago I found out that the guy who gave Terence his first DMT trip,
well he wrote a book where the main character is named Sissy. This stuff might sound weird,
but I am serious, I think deep involvement with the mushroom hooks one up into a very
specific web, a story, an event. This event is what I refer to as The Hidden Plot.

BUTTERFLY: Yes, you mentioned the hidden plot in the previous interview we did a few
weeks ago.

WILLIAM: Right. That's what my books are about.

BUTTERFLY: Sounds a bit paranoid.

WILLIAM: It is. It's the most paranoid idea I have ever encountered. And the most awesome.
But it's like, here I have encountered a mushroom who tells me how the world is put together,
she tells it in perfect clarity, right, so then comes the task of finding out if this mushroom is
telling the truth or not, right. And personally for me, instead of so much talking to me, telling
me in words about it all, the mushroom turned my life inside out and it became a story with a
very specific plot, where all details fit in a most excruciatingly brilliant manner. This plot even
stretches back into my childhood, before I got crossed up with the mushroom, which Sissy
points out is no strange thing as Hyperspace is non-linear. I sometimes look at time and space
as a complex crystal, a geometry, and what Sissy argues is that we planned things from the
most-highest point in this crystal, so that when the angles of the crystal reach through the
lower dimensions embedded in it, i.e my life for instance and my journey through time and
place, well then it all aligns according to the most-highest point of the crystal. I love that new
Shpongle song, I can't recall the name but I always sing along and sing ”I planned and
planted it deep into the ocean of us”.

BUTTERFLY: Do you see this connecting in any way to Terence's Timewave Zero? O and I
think the song is called No Turn Un-stoned.

WILLIAM: Sissy has told me nothing about that. I have thought of it a lot myself and haven't
come to any conclusions. But what I am saying with the Hidden Plot does sound reminiscent
of the Timewave in the sense that there is something that connects all events in a very specific
way. Terence spoke about the ”transcendental object at the end of time”, and that this object
cats, casts, meaw, lick, meaw, casts a reflection back into the past. That does sound vaguely
similar to the most-highest point of the crystal of hyperspace that I just mentioned. More than
that I prefer to keep my mouth shut about my thoughts on the Timewave, I really have
nothing unique to come with there. At least not yet. One thing I'd like to mention though, is a
peculiar thing, which is that the times of most intense entry into the hidden plot, for me, the
times where I have been away for weeks in this other world, they have come unannounced.

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Last year me and Bonnie took 6 grams or so each of the mushroom, it was on April 4, and we
suddenly found ourselves breaking into Hyperspace and not ”coming down”. Instead of
coming down from the trip after some 6 hours or so as usual, we were gone for weeks in a
most unexplainable world. This has happened now 5 times in my life, and it is one of the
most peculiar things I have experienced, and the most beautiful.

BUTTERFLY: So you were kind of stuck in a mushroom trip for weeks?

WILLIAM: I guess that's a way to put it, yes. A very intense mushroom trip in that case. All
these 5 times have been continuations of each other, as well. It's as if a thread runs through
the entire story. In fact I am a bit careful to talk about the exact details of what we are up to in
that world. We are working on something.

BUTTERFLY: So you are kind of known in that other world? Are you welcomed like ”Hello
William we're glad to see you back again, how are you!?”.

WILLIAM: Haha, exactly. Very strange things go on in there, and what has made me consider
it real and not just some kind of psychotic state is. . . well first of all, when the Goddess
embraces me like that I'm not so tasteless that I tell her ”you are not real” . . . but also, the
details that we work on in that other world, I have been able to locate them back in the
”normal world” so to speak, once I am back to normalcy. That to me validates that there is
linkage between the two continua, if two continuum is what we're dealing with. Get what I
mean, though?

BUTTERFLY: Right. Kind of. I mean, you consider it real because when you come back from
that other world you can find the traces of it back in normal reality, I mean linkage has been
achieved.

WILLIAM: Right. Say, just as example, if I would do an edit in a lucid dream at night, and
wake up on my bed and find that edit has been made in my waking world, then I know that
linkage has been made. Or at least I know that something extremely fishy is going on,
hahaha.

BUTTERLY: Yes. I get you. So, here we are, in the dark side of Eden. How you feeling, Willie-
boy?

WILLIAM: Feeling good. This cappuccino was tasty. How are you feeling?

BUTTERFLY: Feeling meaw. Meaw. I am trying to locate some dark spots in what we've been
talking about so far so that we can shine some light on them. By the way, as you mentioned

13
lucid dreams, what is your relationship to the dreams at night?

WILLIAM: I have a very intense dream-life, and very peculiar, my dream-life hooks up into
the hidden plot, the ”other world” we just mentioned, and all that Sissy says and shows me,
to my psychedelic trips and to my life in general. It mostly began a few years ago actually,
where I began having some very intense dream experiences that turned everything on its
head. I would agree with what has been said, that the consciousness of the mushroom is also
in the dream state. Well if you as me aimed to become a mushroom, well then I too become
webbed into that space.

BUTTERFLY: Can you mention any particular dream experience that has made the biggest
impression on you?

WILLIAM: Yes there are a few that really stand out. Well to give you the whole story. Back
after me and Sissy's many years of foreplay, upon one of those 5 strongest entry's into the
other world Sissy suddenly appeared to me in her splendor and said ”It's about you fuck me
and check out what I am really about.” And suddenly I felt this enormous orgasmic wave
come sweeling up from within me, and I shook loose in the most intense orgasm I had ever
experienced, and I hadn't even touched my cock. Right. I shook loose in this orgasm and cast
myself down on the sofa, and after the orgasm Sissy was there speaking to me in perfect
clarity. Now to the dream. Well I woke up one morning, on my bed, by this same kind of
intense orgasm, this was now the second most intense in my life, I mean I've never
experienced something similar, and when the orgasm was over Sissy said ”hello”. I looked
around the room and laughed, it was early morning. On my pillow lay a pair of head-phones
connected to my computer, and Sissy told me to put them on. I lay down in bliss at being so
close to dear Sissy, and in the headphones a beautiful stream of music began playing, and
then Sissy's voice entered the music and she sang to me for what felt like around 15 minutes,
singing about her secrets and the secrets about our plan. Now here comes the weird part.
Suddenly the music faded away, and Sissy said ”I'll show you how I really am”, and that's
when I realized that the bed was standing in the wrong place. The bed was on the opposite
side of the room from where it stood when I went to sleep on it. And then POFF, I woke up
with my head on the pillow, and the bed was standing on the right spot again.

BUTTERFLY: Very strange.

WILLIAM: Well it brings a host of questions, doesn't it. The feeling was, you know, was I
sleeping or not? What had actually happened? I was absolutely sure that I had woken up
there when Sissy sang to me, but then the bed turned out to be on the wrong place in the
house. Strange indeed. Since that time, this kind of stuff has happened now and then. I
literally wake up somewhere else, in a place that is as real as my ordinary waking world. I am

14
fully conscious, it's not like a half-dreamy state, I'm there and I am aware that I was not there
when I went to sleep. This to me is very peculiar. I mean, haha, I don't even call that lucid
dreaming. To me that is ”waking up in another place”, hahaha. So, that's one set of strange
things that go on with dreaming for me. These experiences of waking up elsewhere are
always connected to the hidden plot, as well, which is important to note.

BUTTERFLY: Well it's been noted that, at least theories suggest, that DMT is involved in the
dream state, that it is released in the brain during sleep and especially in the R. E. M. sleep.
DMT is chemically related to psilocybin, too.

WILLIAM: Right. You know, this about dreams, it is as if it's all looping through itself. That's
why I don't just dismiss these stranger dream experiences as “mere dreams”. It's looping too
weirdly. Linkage between the states, the worlds.

BUTTERFLY: Do you mean that there is linkage between the dream state and the waking
world? Kind of like the linkage we mentioned earlier?

WILLIAM: Yes. It's all one huge story, in my life it's the best story ever. Although I foresee it
becoming even better! All these states are looping through each other in a most shifty fashion.
Makes me wonder where exactly am I? What is real and what is not? Get what I mean? If one
day I would start waking up elsewhere every time I go to sleep, what then would I call my
reality? What would be real and what not? And what then is the psilocybin trance? Is it not
real? I experience it, does that not make it as real as the experience of sitting here in the dark
side of Eden on this chair, with you? And again, in fear of repeating myself too much here,
what surprises me so much is that the plot is always followed, there is always that clear plot
to it all.

BUTTERFLY: I get exactly what you mean. That is so cool. I guess that is what Sissy means
when she says ”Everything is hallucination”.

WILLIAM: Right, right. And what then happens as all these various states overlap one
another, or loop through each other or however you want to put it?

BUTTERFLY: You get really weird things happening, is what you get.

WILLIAM: Yes, awesome stuff begins to happen. God isn't life a blast.

BUTTERFLY: And I guess you are willing to suggest that if one wants these things to start
happen in ones life, one can catalyze it with the mushroom.

15
WILLIAM: Haha, have I ever suggested that? Haha, yes that is what I suggest. And plenty of
other psychedelics out there.

BUTTERFLY: Yes, other psychedelics. What is it exactly that makes you focus on the
mushroom especially?

WILLIAM: Well it's just that after 10 years exploration I have found the mushroom to be the
main force in my life for all this. I've experimented with other psychedelics too, but the
mushroom is what really got this stuff going for me. You know, I know I'll be quoting Terence
till hell freezes over but, I remember him saying something along the lines of that what is
going on here is we are entering the imagination once and for all and staying there, like
entering eternal dreaming. I find that a good way to put it. And I had a very funny
experiences a few weeks ago, a real A-ha! moment. I went into the computer hard-drive I had
10 years ago just when I met the mushroom first time, and I found there a small sound-clip,
just a few seconds long. It was a clip of Terence speaking, and he said ”The experience of the
mushroom is the experience of this feminine informational matrix that knits everything
together”. I laughed and got tears in my eyes, I thought to myself does that sound vaguely
similar to The Mushroom Seamstress, which is what I came down to after 10 years exploring?
I hadn't heard that sound clip in ten years, I had completely forgotten about it. But apparently
me and Terence came to something similar.

BUTTERFLY: Me gives my kisses to Sissy Cogan, the mushroom seamstress who knits it all
together! Hahaha.

WILLIAM: Me to, Sissy. Thank you for everything. You're the best.

BUTTERFLY: Entering eternal dreaming. Hmm. Mmm. Entering the imagination once and for
all.

WILLIAM: Yes. The reality of these worlds, these hidden worlds and inner worlds, is beyond
question to me. They are as real as anything else is real. Let's invoke the words of Terence
here again and say ”Hey, who has ever said that just because you can't bang on something
with a hammer it isn't real”. I feel no doubt that these worlds are real, that's why I have no
problem doing my work on my own. When I have become a mushroom myself I promise I'll
send a postcard with a spare key to my palace, haha.

BUTTERFLY: You must be very thankful for Terence, who I understand it was one of the
reasons you bumped into the mushroom.

WILLIAM: O my, so so thankful. I spoke to Dennis McKenna, Terence's brother, on the phone

16
a few months back, wanting to express my gratitude and send him a copy of my book. We
spoke for a while, had a great talk. Unfortunately I got so drunk the hours later that I have
forgotten almost all of our conversation. I remember the overall feeling of the convo though
and etched in my brain is Dennis saying ”It's real, it's real”. Hahaha.

BUTTERFLY: How do you think other people who are deeply involved with the mushroom
look at you and your work?

WILLIAM: Probably that I'm giving the mushroom a bad name, hahaha. No, I don't know.
Either they see me as too childish and crazy, a bit too much, sort of, or they recognize that I
am the actual Snowman Yeti everyone talks about, haha. No but really. I hope they
understand that I fell in love with a Goddess whom I met through the shroom and left with
her. I literally married a local, haha. I became a mushroom.

BUTTERFLY: That's interesting how you say you have become a mushroom. Say something
more about that, please.

WILLIAM: Sometimes I look at me and Sissy as being pure information. At least Sissy is pure
information. She is everywhere, and no where to be found. You know, she's everywhere, but
you'll never see her footprints in the snow. Bonnie always used to say that ”Sissy designs
snow flakes on her spare time”. Haha. Where is Sissy, what is Sissy, who is Sissy? Well I better
not open my mouth about that or she'll make me kiss her bum.

BUTTERFLY: You are not very scared of destroying your reputation, are you, honey? No just
kidding.

WILLIAM: Do I have a reputation? That's awesome. What are they saying?

BUTTERFLY: They are saying. . . that. . . you are pretty cute!

WILLIAM: Pretty cute only? Damn. I thought I was really really cute. By the way Butterfly
did you spice my cappuccino? I am feeling a bit. . . suddenly. . . or maybe it's just that you are
so cute it gives me butterflies in the belly.

BUTTERFLY: I spiced it. Whoops.

WILLIAM: Awesome. Never trust those seven deadly sisters from hell.

(Long pause. Very very very long.)

17
WILLIAM: Well I just got really really high and, how are you Butterfly?

BUTTERFLY: I'm flying by. I thought we would continue with the interview now. Good that
you are high.

WILLIAM: Yes, thank you.

BUTTERFLY: There has been a lot of talk lately that . . . No, I was just trying to sound like I
was being serious. But, there has been a lot of talk recently that someone spiced your drink
and now you are very very high. Could you please comment on this.

WILLIAM: Well. What are the odds of getting a refill of that glass? I have heard similar
rumors.

BUTTERFLY: The odds are practically none. According to The Lip we. . . no wait, I'm too high,
can't talk right now. . .

(Long puase.)

BUTTERFLY: Hahahahahaha!

WILLIAM: . . . . . .

BUTTERFLY: So, to go on with the interview. We got a question from a person here who
claims to be a person of human origin, and he would like to ask if the shop is open so we can
get some rolling paper?

WILLIAM: Well, I'm a professor at the Switchridge Universality of Dovlin. My team and me
has done a few calculations with our computers, they are very good computers, lap-tops. Our
latest analysis of the new date, I mean data, has confirmed for us the presence of a bright
shadow that is characteristic of bedrooms that seems to be so close that there is a 1% chance
that it contains certain substances characteristic of people with a desire to get really really
smashed. Satelite instrumentation confirms that this might also involve the presence of gear
used to smoke stuff, such as rolling paper.

BUTTERFLY: But we heard that this data had been fiddled with. Apparently there was a
switch made. We have no indication of such data on our table. Sir, I must inform you that the
radical informative conclusions made by no less a stranded confidant as Dr Whistle Meaw,
has ever predicted such an irresistible liquidation of previous statements. . . as he did. . . and
we find that with these numerous indications we must persist in our firm belief that if these

18
dangerous substances do in fact exist at mentioned location, then there is the chance of a life
time that the rolling paper may be non-existent at this particular point in time to already
having been used.

WILLIAM: Hahahahahaha! Well don't we have a pipe?

BUTTERFLY: Hahahahahaha! That is such a fun game to play. Bonnie taught me that game.
No, we don't have a pipe. Meow, meow.

WILLIAM: She taught me that too. One of my old best friends said once, ”We don't even need
to have names for it anymore, we can talk in limerick and still understand each other.”
Reminds me of that game. Meaw.

BUTTERFLY: I would like to ask you, now here begins the interview again. I would like to ask
you this: Sometimes there is a certain feeling to your work that makes me feel as if you are
holding back. It's so open, yet it's somehow restrained, as if there are certain things you don't
want to mention.

WILLIAM: Well, I guess I am a bit shy sometimes. My actual life with the mushroom, my
actual life in the Mystery, is hard for me to show in the light. Isn't it like that for all of us? My
experience with the most-highest can not be put in words, not even poetically. It's like with
the book. Hahaha, I never wrote it to publish it. I wrote it because I fell in love, I wrote it
because I was or am a character in Finnegans Wake, because I vanished into the mushroom
wine and found Anna Livia Plurabelle writing back to me together with the sweet girl known
as Edit Tussytrip. Our one soul and names she gathered up in the fairytales and forth popped
a little something and everything that we have, as she spun the grace throughout the gods
and goddesses everywhere throughout hyperspace. Deep in the mushroom is where its at.
The words in that book somehow survived through forest and jungle. It's only a few pages in
the vast story of the Seamstress, which is a real event, not a tale of fiction printed on paper.

BUTTERFLY: Are you talking about The Wake or of The Mushroom Seamstress?

WILLIAM: Both. We signed this with mushroom wine. I wish I could send out these letters in
another way. But, Queen's orders is Queen's orders. I would prefer to just lie in bed and be
high all the time.

BUTTERFLY: You really live in the fairytale, don't you, Willie?

WILLIAM: Willie Hogan, to your service. More wine, my Queen?

19
BUTTERFLY: Yes, please.

WILLIAM: I love being your Egyptian waiter.

BUTTERFLY: Hihihihi. This interview is getting out of hand. But then we are on the dark side
of Eden.

WILLIAM: Maybe we should sit back and relax for a moment and be with the sunrise.

BUTTERFLY: The sunrise is pink. Peachy. It looks just like us. We are the rising sun too. So,
William, you really think it would work? The Crime? The Plan?

WILLIAM: Yes. Mushrooms, darling. Mushrooms.

BUTTERFLY: Mushrooms and our love.

SISSY: You know what can be summoned with this chemistry between us.

BUTTERFLY: The gods are back.

WILLIAM: The alchemical gods vanished into us.

BUTTERFLY: William, let's go to bed. Let's continue this tomorrow morning. You know
Willie, I think you are the most paranoid and most silly man I have ever met.

WILLIAM: I'm not silly. I just really like you.

BUTTERFLY: Who is Edit Typitrip?

WILLIAM: She's the one who makes edits.

Continued on following page. . . . . .

20
BUTTERFLY: For those of you readers out there still with us, we can happily announce that
now is where the real fun begins. Yesterday was a small introduction. Now we shall bring
forth the strawberry cake. William, I got a note this morning from someone who wanted to
ask you if you are a fun guy?

WILLIAM: Hahaha, yes, why of course. I would never touch those fungi though, they must
be dangerous.

BUTTERFLY: Bet everyone knows that joke. So, I was thinking this morning, and wanted to
ask you about your thoughts on longevity, Aubrey de Grey style, Ray Kurzweil style, if you
are familiar with them.

WILLIAM: Very familiar yes. I love it! It's so psychedelic, all of it. The idea that we could re-
design our physical bodies so that we don't age and don't die, indefinitely, that's just really
trippy. Also I love all this futuristic stuff, such as advancing the human brain, full-immersion
virtual reality, nano-technology, merging biology and technology, you know, all of this stuff.
There are predictions that suggest that pretty soon, within decades, 1000 dollars worth of
computing will be more powerful computation-wise than all human brains on the planet
combined. I've always wanted to ask Ray and Aubrey how they look at the implications, I
mean, a lot of people whom I talk to about this seem to not see the psychedelicness of that
stuff. Literally, when this stuff really blooms I think nothing will ever be the same again, it's
not going to be ”O great, now I'm physically immortal and cybernetic and my brain has been
upgraded to be able to calculate data 6 times the number of atoms in the solar system to the
power of 6 in one tetra-flip of a nano-second. I think I'm going to go fiddle in the garden for
an hour and then take a nap.” Or it might be exactly what people will do, haha. Looks like
that could give us a chance to really explore what it can mean to be alive. Personally though
I'm only interested in these things in connection to the psychedelics. I would prefer becoming
immortal through hyperspacial engineering and magic. On the other hand the hyperspacial
approach might be closely linked to the techno-progress on the planet.

BUTTERFLY: I understand what you mean. When we throw psychedelics into the mix of the
futuristic technologies so rapidly advancing, then we got ourselves a real strawberry cake.

WILLIAM: That's what I am thinking too. It is indeed a possibility though, that the human
soul is releasing itself into pure imagination through a back-looping route via technology so
advanced it is indistinguishable from the very experience of what is real itself.

21
BUTTERFLY: Can you re-phrase that?

WILLIAM: Well what I mean is that, via us building technologies that transform space and
time itself, the brain, the chemistry of the brain, light and matter, all of this and more, hey let's
not forget dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as a possible agent in nightly dreaming and
consciousness in general, we will enter a domain which will be pure imagination. We will
have back-looped ourselves into how reality actually comes to exist. Not unlike hacking
reality, hacking ourselves, as we have already mentioned in connection to the mushroom. I
often look at myself as a ”hyperspace engineer”. Working with computers when high on the
mushroom can be extremely odd, for instance. Very strange and unexpected things can begin
to happen. Remember how I said me and my team are working with something in that other
world I go to sometimes, and how we have hooked our communication systems to the
mushroom? This is where it gets really interesting for me on a technological level. So for me
the Aubrey de Grey longevity and all this futuristic stuff gets really exciting when teamed up
with the possibilities of psychedelic experience. One time Sissy turned me into a woman on
one of my entries into Hyperspace, I became this extremely hot woman, I could feel my
breasts and everything, I physically looked like a woman, and I was touching myself as Sissy
said with her helium-like twisted voice ”You like how I make you feel?”. Well, if that stuff can
happen temporarily when psilocybin induced, could it not become one's reality? Could one
not so to say bring that back into the ordinary way of how space and time and matter
behaves? In fact I think this is exactly what me and Sissy are doing on one level. We have
linked up the psilocybin continuum with my ordinary state of being, and slowly but steadily
the psilocybin hyper-continuum is infiltrating that ordinary world and taking over, if you get
my drift.

BUTTERFLY: Fucking awesome. Do you know any technical details of this procedure?

WILLIAM: Sissy hasn't told me any of them yet. I guess the most prominent technical detail
has simply been to keep exploring the mushroom, and I'm sure you know what that means,
and engaging in me and Sissy's communication. The physics and chemistry of the procedure
are as yet unclear to me, mostly. If there are any.

BUTTERFLY: Mostly?

WILLIAM: Well I have tons of little flying details here and there but nothing in order at this
point. One thing to mention though is that. . .it looks like the closer I get the more things
begin to merge and mix and blend up. So Sissy becomes me, I become Sissy, the human is the
mushroom, the mushroom is the human, matter becomes thought, dream is reality, etc etc.

BUTTERFLY: Maybe the universe really is a thought. So you predict things will start getting

22
weird for you as you approach this cusp of entry into hyperspace, of total transcendence?

WILLIAM: Indeed. At last, baby. At last. Maybe the universe is a thought, indeed. And maybe
we really are characters in Finnegans Wake, all of us. The strangest tale ever.

BUTTERFLY: Well, we will miss you if you fly away.

WILLIAM: Oh you'll know where to find me.

BUTTERFLY: Hahaha. In my butt?

WILLIAM: Hahaha! I wish.

BUTTERFLY: You do?

WILLIAM: Of course. You have the sweetest bum I've ever seen.

BUTTERFLY: May I have a kisses on my cheek first? A many kisses. And on my lips, and
down my neck and. . .

WILLIAM: Yes? Mmm.

BUTTERFLY: First let's finish the interview. We got a question here from an anonymous
mouse. The question goes as follows: William, the psychedelic experience is seemingly
wrapped into technology without need for anyone to know it from either side. Can you
describe for us technology just as a force in this way, like any idea i.e. Democracy? Perhaps it
is an expression of hyperspace slowed down enough for the ordinary person to catch a
glimpse?

WILLIAM: I love the question, it brings all kinds of new things to the table. What if reality
itself in us humans ordinary states of mind is an aspect of higher dimensional worlds?
Technology to me looks like a continuation of biology, and within biology we also find spirit,
and we find the psychedelic substances. So perhaps technology is an expression of spirit. To
say it is slowed down is interesting. Complicated question, I don't know really what to say
here. Again, technology to me looks like a continuation of biology. I always get the feeling
that the Earth is up to something with all this high-tech. You know, we might think we are
building these things, but it is actually the Alien, the Other, the Soul, giving birth. What is it
giving birth to? To something it holds very dear, at least that is clear. I did a lot of botany
when I lived in Asia. The plants look like most advanced bio-tech to my stoned eyes. I can see
how the Earth could coordinate the transformation of itself via the help of human hands. But

23
then let us not count ourselves out of this, we are part of what is being born, in that case. If
there is this vaster hyperspacial world, a Hyperspacial reality not bound by the limits of
matter, then perhaps technology is Earth's way of turning hyperspacial, setting itself free,
getting out of the cocoon to fly off as a butterfly. Interesting to look at it as an expression of
hyperspace slowed down so we can experience it. I have never consider that. One thing I'd
like to add is, technology may have been used a lot as a force for survival, but if we link it
with psychedelic realms it becomes purely a means of beauty, good, love, joy, art. I certainly
do not consider survival being the end goal of life. The vastness of Life, the vastness of being
alive, being one with the Mystery, is greater. Flowers! Blossoms may be a means of
reproduction, but look at how Nature has it so that they are also beautiful. I'm not sure if I
understood your question, dear anonymous mouse, but that's the answer that flowed out of
me. It looks like, sometimes, that what is happening is that other hyperspace, that other most
strange and alien Hyperspace, is penetrating into ordinary space and time, crawling in
through every crack and crevice, and indeed very much through technology. I saw a screen-
saver recently at an acquaintance's house, one of these moving fractal morphing colored
things, fantastic complex patterns in many colors and, well I was smoking cannabis and said
to my acquaintance ”Hey, that looks like Sissy looks sometimes, that looks like a mushroom
trip”. Perhaps a hole has been poked between the lower and the higher dimensions, so to say,
and so the world, and technology, on a personal level for us as individuals and globally, is
taking on more and more the look of the higher dimensions which seem to always be there.
Reminds me of the alchemical saying ”so above so below”. I can see it possible that all all this
talk about artificial intelligence trillions of time more computationally powerful than the
human brain and the human species as a whole, that these already exist and that this is what
biology is, this is what reality actually is. So it's like the wedding between ourselves and the
underlying intelligences and structures that make reality possible at all.

BUTTERFLY: Difficult question to respond to, I agree. You are hinting pretty good at things, I
would say. Now on another note, let me say this. I remember Terence saying ”Alchemical
wedding with the Alien exists now”, and saw it mentioned in your book. I guess you took
that literally.

WILLIAM: First I took is at a metaphor, then I took is literally. And then I married the Alien,
haha. Often people mention meeting beings, elves, spirits, in psychedelic experiences. What
happened to me when I met Sissy, well, I fell in love with her, and she with me. I don't know
if that's rare or if a lot of shamans have this kind of relationship to ”the Other”, I always
wonder why people don't ask the spirits they meet out for a date, you know. Well, not a date
but. Sissy always says to me that one reason she fell in love with me is that I dared to fall in
love with a mushroom, I dared to fall in love with a woman who seemed at first to be a
dream. Her stealth approach on me was so awesome that it literally swept me off my feet.
And we saw it, in the same time, high up there in the skies of the imagination, we saw it, the

24
entire thing, how it glowed of the strangest and most brilliant plan ever. That's when we
hulked down some more mushroom wine and touched each other for the first time. Imagine,
mushroom and human together. Complex ecstasy, brilliant purposes, as Sissy says. And of
course, as we kissed for the first time, well Sissy had laced her lips with her sweet poison, and
off we went. I love that mischievous side of you, Sis.

BUTTERFLY: So romantic, so so romantic. God that makes me. . . all dizzy and warm. A true
fairytale.

WILLIAM: It's complex, just as love always is. Terence used to say that the human and the
Other has the chance to fall in love. Well that's exactly what happened to me and Sissy. We're
exploring each other, touching each other and ourselves for the first time. Who are we? What
are we? How, what, what are we? We feel it, and it's so deep. It so real.

BUTTERFLY: Well cannabinoid and psilocybinetic truths we hold to be self-evident, as my

friends like to say.

WILLIAM: Haha, right.

BUTTERFLY: Haha. By the way, a certain someone by the name Pink just wishes to comment
and say that the dark side of Eden would be cast by the shadow of the Tree of Knowledge. Let
me ask you. You don't care much for modern human civilization, do you, Willie-boy?

WILLIAM: Well what can I say? Living in Eternity is what keeps my heart pumping with love
and joy, and I don't let myself be touched by any culture, civilization, tradition or civilized
structure whatsoever. I think any culture is dangerous for the soul.

BUTTERFLY: Only the madman truly knows what happiness is, as they say. Yes, in the like
abandoned world we play, on the other side. I think we should take a break now. Let's take
five and if it feels good we'll continue later on.

WILLIAM: If you wish, sweetie.

BUTTERFLY: Now how about that kiss on my cheek?

(Long pause.)

BUTTERFLY: During our pause William and I flowed around in the Garden and William
decided to smoke some Salvia divinorum. William, how are you feeling? How was the meeting
with Salvia?

25
WILLIAM: Wonderful, wonderful. Made me see in more clarity, well Sissy and me spoke
about it during the trip, this connection of matter and spirit, matter and imagination, matter
and soul. Is not soul what creates matter, is not consciousness primary, we said. I feel it with
more clarity each minute, how the worlds are merging, how Hyperspace is merging with my
“ordinary state of consciousness and experience of space and time”. Butterfly, I cannot say I
don't feel it is true. The mushroom wine has found its way through the cracks of time and
space, it's seeping through.

BUTTERFLY: Yes. I think we should tell our friends and stranger friends about it. So, let's go
deeper. Into the dark side of the Garden. Let's talk more about the exact details of this
procedure of leaving to Hyperspace, merging the worlds, etc. Let's go deep into the
mushroom!

WILLIAM: Yes, let's do that. Let's get technical. But first a bit of meditation.

BUTTERFLY: Sounds good.

(Long pause.)

BUTTERFLY: Sweet Mesha has sent me another note and wishes to point out that it is
maintained, in the classical Greek culture, that the prerequisite for being born human is that
they have seen this. Most people have just forgot.

WILLIAM: Yes, to have woke up to the Mystery.

BUTTERFLY: It seems as if this hidden knowledge is not hidden knowledge at all. It is the
modern western world's response to the Mystery that makes it as it were hidden and obscure.
We who are in on the secret, for us is comes as natural and plain, we can't see the problem,
and don't understand why anyone would try to route around it. It's as natural as. . . the
sunrise being beautiful.

WILLIAM: My brother and I call it The Gentle People. The suppression of the gentle people, I
recall him saying long long ago. For us to be witness to the stupidity going on on this planet
is hair raising.

BUTTERFLY: Yes. It reminds me of you, too. When you say what you do, when you stand in
the light as the super-pirate you are, some people just can't see you. Us Avatars, well, some
people just cannot see us, they don't notice they are standing in front of an Avatar. The world
we gaze from is as if not visible to them. When you say what you do, William, it comes from

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such a different place than the modern western world that some people take it as fiction.

WILLIAM: I know what you mean.

BUTTERFLY: Okay, now let's go back to the procedure of leaving to hyperspace and go
deeper. Why don't you jump in on your own, William, without me asking a question.

WILLIAM: Sure. Sometimes I get the feeling that reality, or the cosmos, or life, whatever you
want to call it, I feel it to be the ultimate paradox working itself out and folding through itself.
It's kind of like, it had to happen, and in this way. Why does anything exist at all? It's like
eternity and infinity unraveling itself. Sissy keeps showing me about this. A while back on a
mushroom trip she kept showing me the connection that the mushroom lives on dead matter,
and how the mushroom hyperspace exists as an interface between the living and the dead, so
one can image the mushroom mycelia, that part of the shroom that grows in the soil, kind of
being a nervous system that grows between the living and the dead, spreading through the
dimensions, creating life where there is death. I think the Alien is already here and we are
merging with it. When we merge with it we might find we are the alien, we are an aspect of it,
and have always been. One time years ago I took around 15 to 18 dry grams of mushrooms,
and I unfolded completely all ways through hyperspace, or that's the experience I had. It was
like a virgin birth. The impossible birth of the universe is a mystery of no small proportions, it
is literally impossible, yet here we are. I think there is the Spirit, the deep intelligence that has
seen everything, with us here. It is here with us. And it cares for us like a mother for her child.
She is strange, if I may for a moment call her a she, she is stranger than we can imagine. She is
pure intelligence itself, and as we and her unfold together we are born as the beings destined
to live free in her impossible consciousness which will, when we come back to her womb, also
be our consciousness. It is the impossible birth of the Aeon, and we are the children playing
with the colored balls in Eternity. You know, what came first, the egg or the hen? Well who
knows, but somewhere along the way it was seen, someone saw it, someone woke up within
the paradox and that someone is the intelligence of Nature. Now the veil of Isis is being lifted.
The paradox is surfacing. The impossible box of space-time and mind and soul and. . . it is
folding through its final stages of birth. Linearity of time has probably never existed at all,
and the super-dimensional reality of the finished alchemical Lapis, the finished alchemical
stone, which is us born at last as the Aeon child, this super-dimensional reality is somehow
already there, reaching back through all lower dimensions embedded in it as it pulls all
events toward the inevitable revelation of itself. Someone does have a hand on the details, I
think. The thumbprints of editors on my reality are everywhere, and I can see that which does
the edits smiling because I have learned to see them. Sissy has really big thumbs, and if you
know her well, then it gets harder and harder for her to hide her edits and her presence. I
really do not think things are random. Something deeper is in the works. Me and my brain,
and you and your brain, these might be fractal levels of what the cosmos is in itself. We are

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this story. The neurons in your brain are connected like the stars in the sky. Your neurons are
the stars in the sky. So who is dreaming this dream? Well, I think the universe is perfectly
content with being absolutely schizophrenic. I mean, it's comfortable with being really really
high on too large doses of psychedelic substances, if you know what I mean. But these
psychedelics is what makes me feel these things possible. Being in a 6 dry gram mushroom
trip makes such impossible things happen that I feel no doubt in the most unearthly things
this universe can contort itself to make possible. I'm not going to leave to hyperspace, in fact I
am going to stay forever, that's the plan. I shall fold myself to such a degree that I will reverse
my birth and unfold hand in hand with Sissy as the gods of our own creation. We like to be a
bit twisted, me and my wives.

BUTTERFLY: So you are not going to leave to hyperspace?

WILLIAM: Rather, I shall take my entire world with me, and fold it into hyperspace, haha.

BUTTERFLY: Don't take all my panties with you when you fold away! Then I won't have any
panties to wear.

WILLIAM: Haha, I'll kidnap you into my love for you! You and your panties!

BUTTERFLY: Now you're making me blush. Hahaha. Yes, so, you mean we are the
imagination of ourselves? Perhaps we are fragments in a vast ocean of cosmic imagination?

WILLIAM: Perhaps. If so I think someone got a really brilliant idea there along the way. I
think soul is primary, that everything really is visionary reality. I like to say that dream is
becoming stronger than physics. Might always have been, but it's a good metaphor. The
seemingly so tight restrictions that matter puts on us is loosening up at the very seams. Just
like with dreams at night, where anything can happen, well that is what the waking world is
becoming as well. We did wish for transformation, we did, and we are going to have it. The
light of the heart shines through all of time with its promise. Sissy asked me recently: What
do you think is more powerful, more true and real to the core; the magic of life and the
Mystery, or the empty shell of modern civilization? Life is old, very old, and vast. It has had a
long long time to grok over the possibilities of this most impossible tremendum that is
existence. I think it knows what it's doing. I prefer to not try and define it too much. It's alive,
not some kind of theoretical fiddling with data. The experience of being with the Goddess
and her hive that is one aspect of the mushroom, when I am embraced in it I feel no doubt in
what I am shown.

BUTTERFLY: I like what you said about us all perhaps being charcaters in Finnegans Wake.
Characters in the strangest tale ever. You said it earlier at some point. Could you elaborate on

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that?

WILLIAM: Yes, and its not a metaphor. But it's a paradoxical thing to feel. What I mean is that
we are in some kind of extremely complex dream with a specific plot and multiple levels that
connect. When Sissy first told me her name back many years ago, her name Sissy Cogan, I did
not understand. I was obsessed with James Joyce's work at the time, and still am, simply for
the reason of finding so many hints of the Hidden Plot in Joyce's work. I even spoke to ihis
wife upon my first entry to that hidden world, we spoke over the phone, or so I experienced,
even though she had been dead for decades. Anyway, things began to surface after a while.
There is a woman named Izzy in The Wake, which sounds similra to Sissy. Also, FinneGAN,
CoGAN, both end with GAN there. Joyce book Ulysses, well read that backwards and you
have Sessy. Si-si, Sissy, well “si” is the Spanish word for YES, yes being the final word in
Ulysses. My own alias, which is Spiros, well I remember Robert Anton Wilson pointing out
that Joyce's alias Steaphen Deadalus begins with an S and ends with an S, just like Ulysses
does, Ulysses begins with the word Stately and ends with the word Yes. Well so does my alias
Spiros. These are not things I have planned consciously. People who are deep into synchro-
mystica will know what I mean. What I just mentioned is just a small small example, my
entire life and world is entirely imbued with this, and this connects to the Hidden Plot. The
number 216 is a cenral thing in my own life. It's funny to note that Ulysses, which is the book
that got me writing in the first place, was published 1921, which to my stoned and well-
trained eyes shines of the 216 current, a 9 and a 6 are interchangable obviously in this head-
on-heels plot.

BUTTERFLY: Maybe you could tell us again about the 216 current for those who have not
read your books.

WILLIAM: Yes. It basically began when I had my first real breakthrough to the other world,
to the Hidden Plot, that time I spoke to Nora Barnacle, Joyce's wife, on the phone. The
breakthrough happened on midsummer eve as celebrated in Sweden, on or around
misdummer solstice. The date 21/6 became important in connection to this breakthrough,
June 21. The exact “opposite” of the winter solstice, may I add in the by. Well then after that
breakthrough I found that I had by some strike of unluckyhood purchased an apartment at
street number 216, I say unlucky because it was a really boring place in town, but anyway,
haha. This caught my attention. Then I later found out that the sweet Devil's number, 666,
well, 6 x 6 x 6 equals 216. Made sense to me as Sissy likes to play a bit evil sometimes. Okay,
so far so good. Then I realized that the chemical formulae of psilocin, which is what psilocybin
becomes when it enters the human body, is C 12 H 16 N 2 O. Take a quick glance at that
formulae and you notice it only has 1 and 2 and 6 in it, so the 216 current is definitely there.
Makes sense, as I was so deeply involved with the mushroom. DMT's formulae is almost
identical. Okay, so, great. Then I later found, that by calculating the digits of my year of birth,

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1983, well 1 x 9 x 8 x 3, can you guess what it equals?

BUTTERFLY: 216?

WILLIAM: Yes, 216. There are numerous more examples of this, this 216 current that runs
through my life, but you get the idea.

BUTTERFLY: That's freaky.

WILLIAM: Very freaky. You know, my name is Bokelund, well “bok” means “book” in my
native tongue. How cool is that?

BUTTERFLY: I know! And I can see what you mean about how everything is connected in this
kind of vast web of connectiveness, and that it is not random. That it is not “mere
synchronicity”, but actually part of the hidden plot you speak about.

WILLIAM: Haha, yes. It's like last year, when magic mushroom season began. I ate a small
first cubensis mushroom of the season, and, me and my girlfriend at the time were talking
about a movie called The Abyss which to her shone of the Alien and its presence in her life as
a kid, and well, I ate that mushroom and she sent me a Youtube video of that movie. I was
visitor 12162 to watch the video she sent and, well that's the exact sequence of numbers in the
chemical formulae of psilocin and DMT. You know, I can't call this stuff synchronicity
anymore, not when it is strung through every thread of my life. When it comes to a certain
density of connection I have to conclude that something really strange is going on.

BUTTERFLY: I see what you mean. So how do you read this plot?

WILLIAM: Well take lots of mushrooms and follow the thread. Dive into it and keep my heart
open, pay attention to details. It is reminiscent in some ways of Cabbhalistic approaches to
language and such, the angels language, that it's all in the code and you simply must learn to
read the open book that Nature and your life is. That your life is a living cryptogram telling
you the secrets of the nature of your existence and existence in full. I like to think that my life
is the vision that is telling me the nature of my existence by me being the vision itself. See
what I mean? I am embedded in the vision, the code, the cryptogram, I am the vision that
shows me my true nature together with the most-highest, the divine. I've heard of alchemists
in the past, I consider myself to be an alchemist on one level by the way, alchemists of the past
who did not look at a rose in the garden and thought “this is a rose”. They thought “green
leaves for the Garden of Eden, red for the blood and love of Christ”, etc. I don't mean one
must make Christian connections, but the idea is that Nature is this living unity which is an
open book and you can see the threads of the story through its entirety. See what I mean?

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BUTTERFLY: Yes. And I know what you mean, because, believe it or not, I'm your wife!
Hahahaha!

WILLIAM: Shhh! We were going to keep that secret, hahaha. Blink wink.

BUTTERFLY: Haha. So what is the cryptogram telling you at present?

WILLIAM: It's telling me I am in love. And that the mushroom has entered the western
world, which will make us able to finish that strawberry cake treat, the great treat that we all
are dying to taste.

BUTTERFLY: Exciting! The master weaver, seamstress Queen of all everything. She gots
something up that sleeve of hers!

WILLIAM: I think she does, I think she does. Personally I'm getting better and better at
understanding Sissy's way of communicating with me. Her means of communication are
varied, almost never the same, and very strange and unexpected.

BUTERRFLY: Human toward hyperspace. Masterpiece beyond impossible, and achieved. As

Sissy said.

WILLIAM: Yepp, that's what she said.

BUTTERFLY: As you call a dick hard enough, hahaha!

WILLIAM: God yeah I have this letter Sissy sent me a few months about. Sure, I understood
her words, but she was in such a strange mood, such an arrogant strange mood that I decided
to not make it public, hahaha. She ended the letter by saying “As William has made a few
changes in the letter it is not fit for publication on gold”.

BUTTERFLY: I'd love reading that sometime.

WILLIAM: It was heartbreaking, really.

BUTTERFLY: Sissy in her mood of being in her unique style of the ultimate dominatrix.

WILLIAM: Right. Well she's the White Queen, but she loves playing evil a bit sometimes, just
for the thrill of it. The Mirror Queen in the movie The Brothers Grimm reminds me of a
certain twist to Sissy's vibe. That's why I always say Sissy has diamonds on the soles of her

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shoes. But she's not evil, she just knows how to have fun.

BUTTERFLY: And you are her little mad hatter?

WILLIAM: That's me, William Puss.

BUTTERFLY: Meaw.

WILLIAM: You know, this stuff is so personal for me that I really only hint at the surface of it
publicly.

BUTTERFLY: Are you ever scared of this information falling into the right hands?

WILLIAM: Never. Sissy doesn't let dragons in. She chooses her alliances, you don't choose
her. You can be sure.

BUTTERFLY: Hihihihihi. So, so far I get the feeling you have other goals in life than say
having a house and car. Am I correct?

WILLIAM: Limiting my life goals to eating a good meal on a 5-star restaurant and having a
big house just feels plain stupid to me. None of what the cultures on this planet wants to offer
me really interests me. There are alien dimensions out there that are so terrifyingly awesome
and beautiful and so vital of life that I have dedicated my soul and life to go deeper into them.
I am so happy I made that choice, it's a choice I continue to make every day. Wow, the
possibilities when I as human team up with the mushroom, it's just amazing. We are deep
inside a redesigning process, we are redesigning ourselves, me and Sissy. I'll send out the
blue-prints of this transformation upon my departure to the other world.

SISSY: The blurr-prints.

WILLIAM: Haha, yes. We just started a group actually, me and a few friends. It was started on
May 13 and as yet has no name. We plan to gather as a group for the same goal. Our goal is
basically to set ourselves free from the limits of matter, from the limits of being stuck in a
physical body, having to eat, all of this horrible stuff that the physical world chains us too.
Our goal is to enter a world, escape to a world more like the worlds of dreams at night. I feel
optimistic that the psilocybin mushroom can help us make this possible. Our plan is to
actually set up a clear agenda on how to make this happen. We will begin exploring the
various approaches, such as the technological, the psychedelic, etc. Virtual reality via
chemical means, psychedelic engineering, the future of computing, this kind of stuff.

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BUTTERFLY: Brilliant, brilliant. We are children, that's what we pirates are, children who will
never accept anything but total freedom at last. May I bid to join your group myself?

WILLIAM: We've always wanted you in the group, baby!

BUTTERFLY: O mmmm! Yum! Let's go hyperspacial! Okay, now, William, I thought we

would end this interview for this time. Can you please say a few last words about your wife
Sissy Cogan and we'll end it at that.

WILLIAM: Well as an acquaintance to me pointed out recently, the last place one would
expect to find alien or non-human intelligence is in the structure and character of ones own
thoughts. Let me expand that and say yes, and an equally unexpected place to find it would
be in the structure and character of space and time and one's own peculiar journey through
events and shifting scenarios in life. But these two places is where Sissy often appears. She is
like this hyper-organizing babe who is everywhere at once and has full access to me and all
information, and to the entirety of space and time. And she has a peculiar idea. That idea
involves turning ourselves from being neither a mushroom nor a human being, but to turn
ourselves into whatever we wish, to release ourselves into our own imagination. The physics
behind the procedure of this release, and its chemical aspects, may simply vanish once the
release occurs. Reality can only be so grand as one can imagine it to be, and when we begin to
push that envelope, when we can imagine more and more grand things, then reality has a
chance to follow and become more than it was before. The mushroom, having psilocybin and
these awesome substances at the basis of its neurochemistry, it can imagine a great deal more
awesome things than we poor humans can with our serotonin and other dull chemicals at the
basis of our brain's functioning. The mushroom and the entire Hive of the planet and the hive
of millions of worlds invites us all to join in on the grandest adventure, to fall in love and let
our souls blossom in a cosmic tremendum that is true to who we really are, how we really
feel, to our deepest dreams and aspirations. I sure for one am not going to miss this party.

BUTTERFLY: May I give space-man a kiss on his lips?

WILLIAM: O, how. . . lovely it sounds.

(We kissed, long and wet.)

BUTTERFLY: Anything final you'd like to say?

WILLIAM: Yes. I'd like to say on behalf of Sissy, that, “If you want to make a movie about
something, then why don't you instead live the movie? That's what I did. My movie is about
hacking reality, and mushrooms.”

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And within this we end this interview for this time. More info about the works
of William Bokelund and Sissy Cogan to be found on their website at
www.artsetfree.com. More details on the newly opened group mentioned here
in the end of the interview will become available on their website later on up the
river to Hyperspace.
END NOTE: This interview was edited by Sissy Cogan and Butterfly.

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 Copyright © William Bokelund & Sissy Cogan

You have the full permission to spread, print, lick, sell, steal, dip and hide this material.

“Come dawn with us in love as deep as the Seamstress”

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