Official Transcript Sept 27, 2017 Zoning Board Hearing - Case #1200 - Hope Mill

1
1 TOWN OF SCITUATE
2 ZONING BOARD OF REVIEW
3 7:00 P.M.
4 TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2017
5 SCITUATE HIGH SCHOOL AUDITORIUM
94 TRIMTOWN ROAD
6 NORTH SCITUATE, RHODE ISLAND
7
8
9 RE: Case #1200, Paramount Development Group
Location of premises 1 Main Street (Hope)
10 Assessor's Plat 3-Lot 8; Plat 5-Lots 1, 114,
117; M (Manufacturing) VO (Village Overlay)
11 Under the Zoning Ordinance
12
13 ZONING BOARD MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE:
14 Dennis Charland, Acting Chairman
Paul Durfee
15 Dean N. Costakos
Ed Rambone
16 Joseph D. D'Amico
Steve Gaddes
17
18 Peter Ruggiero, Town Solicitor
Calista McDermott, Secretary
19
20
21
22
23
24
C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

2
1 (HEARING COMMENCED AT 7:17 P.M.)

2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Good evening. Can you
3 hear me? I wish I had a better microphone system
4 but we don't so please bear with me. I'm trying to
5 get this meeting on its way.
6 Can I have silence in here so we can talk and
7 get this meeting going, please. Thank you. Good
8 evening, Ladies and Gentlemen. My name is Dennis
9 Charland. I'm the Acting Chairperson of the
10 Scituate Zoning Board of Review. I'm asking for
11 your attention as we re-open this meeting in
12 continuation of the October 1st and October 20 --
13 excuse me, August 1st and August 29, 2017 hearing
14 for the Hope Mill Development Project.
15 As I noted in the last two meetings, this is a
16 complicated project. We are doing our best to
17 understand all of the information and listen to
18 everybody's comments and everybody's concerns and
19 take these into consideration.
20 This is a project that is going to impact the
21 town forever; we understand that. So please,
22 understand that we are not the enemy up here. We
23 are trying to work to get this resolved.
24 There have been several legal challenges that

3
1 I'm going to describe in a moment, which is why we

2 had -- you saw earlier that there was scheduled to
3 be an executive session. That session did not take
4 place but I will explain what those legal
5 challengers were in a moment.
6 A couple ground rules: I request that anyone
7 with a cellular phone or pager or like device be
8 put on silent so we are not listening to that going
9 off when we are trying to communicate and have
10 everybody else distracted by it.
11 Anyone who attended the prior meetings knows
12 that the microphone system in here is less than
13 desirable. When you come up to a microphone, I ask
14 that you speak right into the microphone. It's the
15 only way it's going to pick it up in here and talk
16 really loudly. Okay? It's the best I can offer to
17 you right now. This is a very hot building and we
18 are going to try to keep this moving.
19 I also ask that you respect -- and this is an
20 important point, please, respect the right and
21 privilege of every individual to speak. I've had
22 some comments that have come forward that people
23 felt intimidated about speaking at the last meeting
24 or last two meetings because they might have wanted

4
1 to voice something that was contrary to what was

2 being said.
3 I'm going to ask that you limit your applause,
4 limit any conversation -- support, yelling or
5 anything like that to people's comments just so we
6 can respect everybody's perspective that they want
7 to share.
8 These meetings are being tape recorded and
9 there is a stenographer who is documenting this for
10 a legal record. What is said, everything that is
11 said in the meeting, under the microphone is being
12 picked up in the stenographer's report.
13 In the event that the decision does not go the
14 way of the liking of the Applicant or any of the
15 other parties that are interested, they have the
16 right to appeal this to Superior Court. The
17 transcript of this hearing will then be utilized
18 for that purpose.
19 When you are coming forward, please identify
20 your name and address into the microphone, make it
21 clear so everyone can hear it, one person speaking
22 at a time, please.
23 As noted, this is a continuation of the prior
24 meeting during which a lot of information was

5
1 presented. We will not be repeating all of that

2 information. We ask that if you were here, do not
3 come back up and just say the same things over
4 again. We've heard you before. We want to try to
5 keep this to new information when you come up to
6 the mike.
7 For your information, the case was originally
8 heard by the six members of the Zoning Board who
9 are siting here tonight and for the record, my name
10 is Dennis Charland, as I said, to my left is --
11 Paul Durfee and I did that the first time. To the
12 left of him is Ed Rambone, Steve Gaddes, Ed -- Joe
13 D'Amico -- keep it up guys -- Dean Costakos.
14 In the event that this hearing tonight -- I'm
15 going to tell you right now, we are having
16 additional information that is being presented. We
17 are not going to deliberate tonight. We will hear
18 your comments tonight. We will end the session on
19 public comments tonight and then what we are going
20 to do is that we are going to meet on October 17th
21 to do the formal deliberation at that point. That
22 is a public meeting and you will be able to come
23 but there will be no opportunity for public comment
24 at that time.

6
1 I'd also like -- at the table is Peter

2 Ruggiero, the town's legal counsel and to his right
3 is Calista McDermott, who is the clerk for the
4 Zoning Board.
5 Now for the legal matter that we had between
6 the last meeting on October, excuse me, August 29th
7 and tonight, legal issues were challenged, that
8 were challenging the authority of the Zoning Board
9 to actually hear this case. And this came from the
10 Receiver. We have a letter from the Receiver.
11 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION WITH BOARD'S COUNSEL)
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The letter reads, This
13 office represents Peter Furness, the Receiver of
14 New England Development. The Receiver is the owner
15 and co-applicant with Paramount Development for the
16 special use permit and a number a variances
17 relating to the Paramount plans for the development
18 of the Hope Mill.
19 This is Application Number 1200, which has had
20 two lengthy hearings before the Board already and
21 is scheduled for deliberation, a decision later
22 this month. The Board has also requested
23 additional expert evidence regarding the parking
24 issue and traffic issues.

7
1 It is the Receiver's position that the special

2 use permit and variances granted to this project in
3 December of 2006 in Application Number 987, as
4 confirmed by the Zoning Board of Review on January
5 19, 2016 and as set out in the letter on January
6 20, 2016 from Gorham & Gorham, the Town Solicitor
7 at the time remains in full force and effect. The
8 action taken which diminishes -- any action taken
9 which diminishes, or results (SIC) or restricts in
10 any way the development rights afforded by those
11 decisions would be a violation of the Receivership
12 Injunction issued by the Superior Court in the
13 Order Appointing Permanent Receiver entered on
14 August 31, 2010.
15 This goes on several pages. Basically trying
16 to say that anything that was decided at the
17 earlier meeting was enforced. There was a meeting
18 today before Superior Court and we are advised to
19 go ahead and continue with this. If there is any
20 challenge to be made at a later date, they would
21 then take it up with the court. But at this point,
22 we are going ahead full force to get this resolved.
23 Anything further I should be explaining?
24 MR. RUGGIERO: No. Go ahead.

8
1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We have also received

2 several requests to participate in additional
3 information. We have a letter from Attorney
4 Harsch, who is representing --
5 MR. RUGGIERO: Here it is.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. Attorney
7 William -- "We are writing on behalf of our
8 clients, Jon N. And Mary E. Allan, both of 103 Main
9 Street, Hope, Rhode Island, and Brian Martin, of 75
10 Main Street, Hope, Rhode Island, all persons
11 requiring notice of the referenced application, and
12 Hope Mill Concerned Citizens, concerning the public
13 meeting scheduled for tonight and further through
14 the project.
15 So Attorney Harsch is here as well to
16 represent the interest of the several concerned
17 citizens of Hope. So that will be on the record
18 and you will be privy to.
19 We also had several people who have asked to
20 have information presented and we had already
21 requested a traffic study to be done. An
22 independent traffic study has been completed that
23 will be called on tonight for that.
24 So these are some of the things that we are

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1 trying to do. Once these presentations are done, I

2 will then open it up again for public comment and
3 we're going to go as smoothly as we can. And I
4 promised people that I will stop in the middle of
5 this to take a break because several people were
6 saying, "Hey, I wanted to hear but I didn't want to
7 leave the room at the time." So we will take a
8 break in between.
9 At this point, I am going to ask for -- I have
10 to read the letters, I'm sorry. I'm going to note
11 the particular letters that have been received or
12 communications. The first, which is going to be
13 labeled A1 in terms of exhibits, is the Crossman
14 Engineering Traffic Study, the request.
15 A2 will be Attorney Harsch's letter.
16 A3 will be Ashley Sweet's report. She is a
17 Planner, independent planner that has been retained
18 by the Concerned Citizens of Hope an Attorney
19 Harsch to do an independent study. She will be
20 doing her presentation as well.
21 In addition to that, we have letters from Gail
22 and Jim Flodin, Mary Allen, Sherri Capozzoli, I'm
23 not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly, I
24 apologize to her, Lauren Dettore and Ryan Grady.

10
1 Robert and Marisa Brown also submitted letters. We

2 have a letter from the Hope Mill Concerned Citizens
3 with newspaper articles that have been attached.
4 And then we have a letter from the Pawtuxet
5 River Authority. The interesting thing to note,
6 the Pawtuxet River Authority, has acknowledged in a
7 positive fashion support for the project, whereas
8 the others were all citing very similar concerns
9 that included the traffic, the DEM wastewater plans
10 and the parking issues. Those were the particular
11 ones that were being addressed in each of the
12 individual letters.
13 We also had a resolution that has been
14 submitted by the Town Council that is opposed --
15 expressing concerns of being opposed to the
16 project.
17 At this point, I would like to ask John
18 Mahoney, the Town Council President to come forward
19 to explain the resolution that he presented.
20 MR. MAHONEY: Mr. Chairman, how is that?
21 Can you hear me?
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I can hear you.
23 MR. MAHONEY: All right. Let me start off
24 by thanking you, Mr. Chairman and members of the

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1 committee for allowing me to go on record this

2 evening. For the stenographer, the last name is
3 Mahoney, M-A-H-O-N-E-Y. First name, John and my
4 address is 10 Mahoney Drive in Hope.
5 Mr. Chairman, last month I went on record with
6 my concerns in my individual capacity. This
7 evening, I would ask that you please take my
8 dialogue and my testimony this evening in my
9 official capacity as Town Council President.
10 Mr. Chairman on 9/14/2017 at a regular
11 scheduled Council --
12 AUDIENCE: We can't hear you.
13 MR. MAHONEY: How's that? All right. At
14 a regular scheduled Council meeting on 9/14/2017, I
15 introduced Resolution 17-19 for the Council for
16 approval and the title of that resolution,
17 Resolution Opposing the Development of the Hope
18 Mill as Currently Proposed.
19 So with that said, Mr. Chairman I will ask
20 just two simple things and we will move this right
21 on to your next -- the folks that will be up
22 testifying next. I would like for you to recognize
23 receipt of that signed affidavit that was approved
24 by a majority of the Council members that evening

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1 and the ones that were eligible to actually vote;

2 two were exempt. In a second, if you would, Mr.
3 Chairman, please would you read that resolution
4 into the record.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The resolution reads:
6 The Town Council of the Town of Scituate hereby
7 resolves as follows: Whereas, the application
8 known as Case #1200 before the Town of Scituate
9 Zoning Board of Review, hereinafter "Zoning Board",
10 commonly referred to as the Hope Mill Development
11 Project, hereinafter, "Hope Mill Development
12 Project" or "Application", concerns Tax Assessor's
13 Lot 8 on Plat 3 and Lots 1, 114 and 117 on Plat 5,
14 commonly referred to as the Hope Mill, "Hope Mill"
15 and whereas, the applicant for the Hope Mill
16 Development project seeks various forms of relief
17 from the Scituate Zoning Ordinance, including but
18 not limited to, density, lot width, front setback,
19 parking setback, sewage disposal setback from a
20 body of water and building height; and whereas, the
21 Application specifically seeks to exceed the
22 maximum building height of 30 feet and the proposed
23 two new buildings will be 68 feet in height; and
24 whereas, the Application specifically seeks to have

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1 less than the required number of parking spaces

2 than required by the zoning ordinance; and whereas,
3 the Application specifically seeks to have a sewage
4 disposal system with less than the required setback
5 of 150 feet from the edge of the Pawtuxet River;
6 and whereas, the Town Council of the Town of
7 Scituate is concerned that the proposed Hope Mill
8 Development Project is too dense, lacks adequate
9 fire-safety provisions, will create too much
10 traffic for the current configuration for the roads
11 in and around the development, fails to take
12 advantage of a nearby municipal sewage system and
13 instead proposes to use an on-site wastewater
14 treatment system located in a flood zone and is not
15 in character with the surrounding area.
16 Now therefore, be it resolved that the Town
17 Council of the Town of Scituate hereby opposes the
18 sought-after relief for the Hope Mill Development
19 Project in Case #1200 before the Zoning Board as
20 currently proposed; and be it further resolved that
21 the Town Clerk is hereby instructed to submit a
22 copy of this resolution to the Town of Scituate
23 Zoning Board of Review for inclusion in its record
24 of case #1200 currently pending.

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1 The Resolution shall take effect immediately

2 upon the passage by Order of the Scituate Town
3 Council signed by John Mahoney as President, in
4 witness whereof, Margaret M. Long as the Town
5 Clerk.
6 MR. MAHONEY: Mr. Chairman, thank you so
7 much for your cooperation in allowing that to be
8 inserted into this evening's record. With that, I
9 yield back. Thank you, sir.
10 (APPLAUSE)
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: For the benefit of
12 those who might have not been here before, I am
13 going to give a quick summary of what has already
14 been presented here and then we can get into this
15 meeting for the presentations.
16 Paramount Property is seeking to buy the Hope
17 Mill property out of receivership and renovate the
18 property into 193 apartments. There are three
19 phases to this project. The main building and most
20 of the existing building -- offshoot buildings for
21 the current structure will be phase 1 of the
22 project. It will include 12, one-bedroom
23 apartments and 46, two bedroom apartments.
24 Phase 2 will involve constructing two new

15
1 buildings of similar appearance to the other

2 buildings in the complex. Officially it will be 68
3 feet, which is nearly 10 feet higher than the front
4 building; however, due to the slope of the rear
5 land and from Main Street, the view of elevations
6 should be comparable. Parking would be to include
7 -- under both of these two new buildings.
8 Phase 3 will be to develop the sawtooth
9 building into 20, one-bedroom apartments and 55,
10 two-bedroom apartments.
11 The Applicant is seeking a special use permit
12 for the 193 apartments on the 32 acres and then 7
13 variances for setbacks, parking spaces and building
14 height-related issues.
15 The developers are planning 60 percent of the
16 complex to be market-rate apartments and 40 percent
17 of the project to be affordable housing. That is
18 not considered limited -- which is not limited to
19 low-income housing. It is considered work-force
20 housing, not subsidized housing.
21 Qualifications for this require that no more
22 than 30 percent of the annual income of the
23 household earning of 80 percent or less of the
24 median income, which is, in Scituate, just shy of

16
1 90,000 in the 2010 census.

2 During the public comments, for the six hours
3 or so that we've had public comments in the past
4 two meetings, speakers have raised concerns about
5 crime, firefighting challenges, the school impact,
6 increased traffic, parking, flooding potentials and
7 the wastewater facilities.
8 We have received wastewater permits,
9 documentation of wastewater permits issued by DEM.
10 Firefighting challenges were addressed by Chief
11 John Robinson and Deputy Chief John Chevalier of
12 the Hope/Jackson Fire Department.
13 Impact on police and crime were addressed by
14 Chief Delaere by the Scituate Police Department and
15 the schools' impact was addressed by school
16 superintendent Lawrence Filippelli.
17 We also expressed a concern to deal with the
18 traffic because there was a consensus, at least in
19 my mind, that traffic was a concern and a traffic
20 study was insufficient to address the issues that
21 were being brought forth. We requested what is
22 referred to as a peer review, which is to say that
23 an independent company was contracted to do their
24 own traffic study.

17
1 That was done by Crossman Engineering and Mr.

2 Cronan -- Mr. Cronan, would you come forward and
3 explain some of your report as well as the details
4 basically of the report. Mr. Cronan, would you
5 state your name for the record.
6 MR. CRONAN: James Cronan. I work for
7 Crossman Engineering in Warwick, Rhode Island. I
8 am a registered professional engineer in the state
9 of Rhode Island and I have been conducting highway
10 traffic engineering for almost 40 years now.
11 (SWORN IN BY CHAIRMAN CHARLAND)
12 MR. CRONAN: Mr. Chairman, I did review
13 and I believe -- does everybody have a copy of the
14 review? You have one?
15 (BOARD RESPONDS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE)
16 MR. CRONAN: What I would like to do is
17 give a brief overview and answer any questions the
18 Board has.
19 The information we based our review on was a
20 traffic impact study by Bryant Associates, the site
21 plan from DiPrete Engineering --
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We can't hear you.
23 MR. CRONAN: -- questions submitted by the
24 Zoning Board of Review and I also reviewed a letter

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1 entitled Parking Summary from DiPrete Engineering.

2 The intersections that Bryant Associates used
3 for their analysis were Main Street at North Road,
4 Main Street at proposed driveway and Main Street at
5 Hope Furnace Road. We agreed these should be the
6 intersections that should be analyzed for the
7 study.
8 They had conducted traffic turning movements
9 between 6 to 10 in the morning and 2 to 6 in the
10 afternoon, determining the morning and afternoon
11 peak hours occurred. These peak hours is what they
12 used for analysis.
13 The counts were collected during the month of
14 November, which is a general representative of the
15 average month conditions, which we again find
16 acceptable.
17 For the trip generation, for the traffic
18 generated by the new apartments, they utilized the
19 latest edition of the Institute of Transportation
20 Engineers Trip Generation Manual. Again, this is
21 based on numerous studies of similar land uses and
22 they utilized ITE Land Use Code 220 for Apartments.
23 The numbers they arrived at were 100 vehicle
24 trips in the morning peak hours and 126 vehicle

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1 trips in the afternoon peak hours. And when I say

2 vehicle trips, I mean traffic entering and exiting
3 the cite both north and south.
4 The trip distribution was determined using the
5 existing trip patterns on the roadways, which we
6 found acceptable.
7 They conducted a capacity analysis of the
8 three intersections. For the proposed driveway,
9 they could only use build conditions. And for the
10 stop approach on the west approach was a level of
11 service C in the morning and C in the afternoon.
12 For the North Road/Main Street intersection,
13 again for the west approach, again, for the stop
14 condition, level of service was C in the morning
15 and F in the afternoon for existing conditions and
16 remained C in the morning and F in the afternoon
17 for proposed conditions.
18 Main Street/Hope Furnace Road, for the
19 eastbound approach, which is a stop condition,
20 level of service of E in the morning and D in the
21 afternoon and the proposed condition was E in the
22 morning again and slipped to a D in the afternoon.
23 So basically what the analysis showed -- there
24 is a layout there today at those two intersections

20
1 for the stop conditions, it will increase but it

2 won't, in my opinion, increase substantially.
3 Traffic impact study used the conservative
4 design speed of 40 miles for an hour. This is
5 based on their observations of the original, the
6 existing speed limits and the speed conditions on
7 the roadway.
8 Crossman Engineering performed our own speed
9 study on the site and we found for northbound
10 traffic -- the 85th percentile speed was 41 miles
11 an hour. And the 85th percentile is when 85
12 percent of the people are at or below. The 50
13 percentile, which was the average speed, was 37
14 miles per hour.
15 For the southbound traffic, 85th percentile
16 was 40 miles an hour. The 50 percentile, again,
17 average speed was 35 miles per hour.
18 We also checked the sight distance at the
19 proposed driveway for exiting traffic and we found
20 you can see approximately 700 feet in each
21 direction. So again, this is more than adequate
22 for safe stopping distance.
23 Bryant Associates reviewed the crash data
24 obtained from the Scituate Police Department from

21
1 January 1, 2013 to November 22, 2016. This is

2 almost four full years of traffic accidents. They
3 found 23 crashes occurred in the vicinity.
4 North Road and Main, there were 9 accidents.
5 Hope Furnace Road and Main there were 10 accidents.
6 Main at Mill Street, there was 1 accident. And in
7 the general area of the site, there were 3
8 accidents.
9 We looked at the site plan for the proposed
10 parking and the most up-to-date site plan shows 340
11 parking spaces. For the proposed 193 dwelling
12 units, this provides 1.77 spaces per unit. Based
13 on our review and also the review of the ITE
14 Parking Generation Book, we feel 1.77 per unit is
15 acceptable.
16 The questions from the Zoning Board. Again,
17 they ask about adequate number of parking spaces,
18 which I just got into. Again, the Ordinance would
19 require 386 spaces and this plan shows 342. Other
20 local towns have parking requirements based on 1 to
21 2 spaces per unit, with most using 1 and a half.
22 Also the Institute of Transportation Engineers
23 said the average is 1.26. But again, that's the
24 average so you want something higher than that;

22
1 1.77 is quite a bit higher.

2 During the peak travel times, what would be
3 the impact on local traffic? They want to know the
4 percentage increase. Again, we felt that there
5 would not be a substantial increase in delay for
6 the local traffic.
7 The intersection of Main Street and North Road
8 currently has 965 vehicles entering the
9 intersection and this will add another 70 vehicles
10 during the morning peak, which is a 7 percent
11 increase.
12 Main Street at Hope Furnace has 971 vehicles
13 during the morning peak hour. This will add
14 another 30 vehicles, which is a 3 percent increase.
15 For the afternoon peak, Main and North Road has
16 1164 vehicles. This will add 77, which is a 7
17 percent increase. And for the Main Street/Hope
18 Furnace Road it would be another 49 vehicles added,
19 which is a 4 percent increase.
20 Comment three, question three was: What is
21 the current traffic volume on 116 going by the
22 project entrance? Morning peak hour 615 vehicles
23 northbound, 258 southbound for a total of 873
24 vehicles. Afternoon peak hour, 410 vehicles

23
1 northbound, 646 southbound with a total of 1056

2 vehicles.
3 Next question was: What is the speed range of
4 traffic going by the complex? And this, again, we
5 already discussed previously, 85th percentile was
6 41 going northbound. 50 percentile average speed
7 was 37. Southbound, 85th percentile was 40 miles
8 per hour and the 50 percentile was 35 miles an
9 hour.
10 Next comment was: Personal observations the
11 traffic backs up at peak times Route 116/Main
12 Street intersection with Hope Furnace Road, Main
13 Street/115 and Jackson Flat Road at Main Street.
14 Would lowering the actual speed of vehicles on 116
15 reduce back up at these intersections while
16 allowing space for cars to enter Route 116 at those
17 intersections?
18 The intersections mentioned above, again,
19 experience delays today and they will increase in
20 the future, not substantially.
21 Based on the speed study results, the speed
22 limit on 116 should not be reduced. This would
23 result in the speed limit being artificially low
24 and create speeding.

24
1 One thing that could be done: Northbound is

2 currently 35 miles an hour coming by Hope Furnace
3 Road and drops to 30 right at that the site, just
4 north of the driveway. The town can always ask the
5 State Traffic Commission to change that 30 mile an
6 hour spot before Hope Furnace. So they can move
7 that sign up maybe 1000 feet just to reduce the
8 speed just before the intersection.
9 Three-way stops were mentioned. Our opinion
10 is that three-way stops would no help. They would
11 just cause a large number of vehicles that don't
12 stop today that would have to stop and it would
13 just add to the overall delays.
14 Last comment was: What action taken by the
15 applicant could reduce adverse impact caused by
16 their project on traffic flow?
17 And, again, I just have to mention again that
18 there is a delay on the minor roads today. There
19 will be in the future and it will be increased
20 slightly.
21 We also reviewed a parking letter summary from
22 DiPrete, which some of this we already talked
23 about, parking. Originally there were 276 spaces
24 on the cite. Now, it's up to 342, which would be

25
1 1.77 spaces per unit, which we feel is acceptable.

2 And there were some recommendations that
3 DiPrete had made in their letter was to create
4 rental agreements, limiting on-site parking to 1
5 space with a second parking space to be added to
6 leave space on availability. Set up ride sharing
7 for development tenants.
8 (AUDIENCE DISRUPTION)
9 MR. CRONAN: Provide trip parking spaces
10 designated for vehicles sharing such as Zip Car or
11 similar, and have designated vehicle parking
12 spaces.
13 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We can't hear you. You
14 need to speak into the microphone.
15 MR. CRONAN: So basically, in conclusion,
16 was that we agreed with Bryant Associates that the
17 proposed driveway access and adjacent intersections
18 will operate at acceptable levels of service with
19 the additional traffic flow from the development.
20 We also agree that there is adequate stopping
21 sight distance at the proposed development access
22 driveway.
23 And we are also of the opinion that 342
24 proposed parking spaces is adequate for the

26
1 proposed development.
2 I can answer any questions the Board has.
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Mr. Cronan, the -- you
4 had mentioned the time frame, the a.m. peak and the
5 p.m. peak.
6 MR. CRONAN: Yes.
7 MR. CHARLAND: Is the count, the number
8 count that you utilized, as example, the 650 cars
9 northbound a.m. peak, is that on a 1 hour basis --
10 MR. CRONAN: Yes, one hour basis.
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: So per hour?
12 MR. CRONAN: We always take the worse, the
13 highest volume in the morning peak hour and highest
14 volume in the afternoon peak hour to do our
15 analysis.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. Does -- one of
17 the concerns in terms of parking, the standard that
18 you are citing for the adequacy of parking spaces,
19 does that contemplate the fact that this is a rural
20 community that is not on a bus route so that it is
21 unlikely that people would have, I would say, one
22 car per household. Probably, if you have two
23 people in the house, you might have two; is that
24 taken into consideration?

27
1 MR. CRONAN: Yes, based on our studies,

2 different locations -- again, I'm not sure just
3 where they were taken. I can't see that being done
4 at a downtown urban area. Most likely a suburban
5 area. In a lot of towns around that don't have
6 buses, don't have a lot of bus routes, again,
7 having used 1.5 for their number and they have 1.77
8 here. So it seems like the do have quite a bit of
9 parking.
10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What about visitors?
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Am I following
12 correctly that you're expecting on average about a
13 7 percent increase in the traffic flow; is that
14 approximately where --
15 MR. CRONAN: An average what?
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: As I was reading the
17 report, there seems to be about a 7 percent
18 increase in traffic from the --
19 MR. CRONAN: At the intersection, yes. We
20 took the total entering traffic in the intersection
21 and the total new traffic entering and it was 7
22 percent then 3 and I think it was 7 and 4 at the
23 other intersection.
24 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. Any other

28
1 questions of the Board?

2 MR. COSTAKOS: So you looked at their
3 analysis from November 16, 2016?
4 MR. CRONAN: I couldn't hear that too
5 good.
6 MR. COSTAKOS: So you were dependent on
7 the numbers that they gave you from November 16,
8 2016?
9 MR. CRONAN: That's when the existing
10 traffic count was done, correct.
11 MR. COSTAKOS: Okay. So that methodology
12 is fine with you even if it's -- there is no
13 problem with that? You feel comfortable with those
14 numbers?
15 MR. CRONAN: November is probably an
16 average month traffic wise, percentage wise. I
17 think January, February, March were lower. The
18 summer is a little higher. But still, during those
19 peak hours, they usually stay about the same
20 because that's when everybody is going to school,
21 commuting to work, back from work. So the peak
22 hour is pretty much the same year round.
23 MR. COSTAKOS: All right. So November's a
24 good -- this time in November is a good month as

29
1 far as traffic count?

2 MR. CRONAN: You're kind of fuzzy.
3 MR. COSTAKOS: This time -- I'm pretty
4 better off without it. In November 16th --
5 MR. CRONAN: Yeah.
6 MR. COSTAKOS: -- 2016, you're fine with
7 November is a good month to do this --
8 MR. CRONAN: Yes.
9 MR. COSTAKOS: -- to base the numbers in
10 November?
11 MR. CRONAN: That's pretty much an average
12 month, yes.
13 MR. COSTAKOS: Okay. So that's good for
14 you. So when we go to the level of service -- so
15 the southbound approach --
17 MR. COSTAKOS: The southbound approach
18 didn't change at all? So does that mean that that
19 road has plenty of excess capacity; is that why
20 those numbers didn't change from existing to build?
21 MR. CRONAN: The southbound approach
22 didn't change because they don't have the stop
23 condition. They just -- they have free-flow
24 traffic.

30
1 MR. COSTAKOS: So that's why that didn't

2 change.
3 MR. CRONAN: They don't get impacted.
4 MR. COSTAKOS: So there is plenty of
5 capacity there --
6 MR. CRONAN: Yes.
7 MR. COSTAKOS: So that is not an issue?
8 What constitutes -- 98, an F. Is there anything
9 below an F?
10 MR. CRONAN: Is what?
11 MR. COSTAKOS: Is there anything below an
12 F? In other words, you're grading the wait time.
13 The level of service you're grading it. 98 seconds
14 that someone would be delayed.
15 MR. CRONAN: Yeah, the level of service
16 on, you know, a fairly busy road, any stop
17 condition whether it's a driveway, you know, like
18 this type of driveway or a stop condition at a
19 intersecting road, you know, now, it this day and
20 age you're getting levels of service F.
21 And I went out and I reviewed it and I think
22 we get up to six cars at one point then there were
23 five a couple of times and then four cars backed up
24 a few times. Mostly it was like two, three, four

31
1 cars and clear and more would come up.

3 MR. CRONAN: I wasn't out there for two
4 hours but I didn't see a lot of back up. Again, it
5 would queue up and leave and queue up and leave and
6 seemed to be running fairly well.
7 You're going to find that level of service on
8 most of the busy roads in the state.
9 MR. COSTAKOS: So the existing gets an F
10 and that's what you based it on. It's basically --
11 basically you think of it as the number of cars
12 sitting there waiting in traffic; is that how you
13 judge it?
14 MR. CRONAN: Yeah, the number of cars on
15 the main road versus the number of cars coming out
16 of the stop.
17 MR. COSTAKOS: So it goes from 61 to 98?
18 MR. CRONAN: Correct.
19 MR. COSTAKOS: Wouldn't that be more of a
20 50 percent increase?
21 (AUDIENCE INTERRUPTION)
22 MR. CRONAN: When I was there, again, I
23 didn't see 60-second stops.
24 MR. COSTAKOS: I'm just looking at your

32
1 numbers and on the westbound approach it says 61

2 seconds and it goes to the new proposal it says F,
3 98 seconds.
4 MR. CRONAN: Correct.
5 MR. COSTAKOS: So isn't that a 50 percent
6 increase?
7 MR. CRONAN: Yes.
8 MR. COSTAKOS: In traffic?
9 MR. CRONAN: In delay. Not traffic, in
10 delay.
12 MR. COSTAKOS: What's the lowest
13 acceptable delay? Like what's -- how does the
14 state of Rhode Island -- if they're 50 cars there,
15 does the state of Rhode Island do something? What
16 is the -- how -- give us a threshold of how we know
17 there is a problem? When is there a problem? When
18 would you think there was a problem?
19 MR. CRONAN: The problem is when you get
20 enough traffic in both roadways to require a
21 traffic signal. Then you request the state to do a
22 traffic signal study.
23 MR. COSTAKOS: But what numbers would I
24 expect to see here when I have that problem?

33
1 MR. CRONAN: The number on the side road,

2 it probably -- you're going to need probably 100
3 cars an hour over the course of a whole day
4 minimum.
5 MR. COSTAKOS: But I have a number -- I
6 have a level of F and a number of 98 would that --
7 if that were 200, would there be a problem?
8 MR. CRONAN: Again, for a traffic signal,
9 it would make a difference on the volume of
10 traffic.
11 MR. COSTAKOS: No, I mean for the
12 residents, when would they notice a significant
13 problem? When would they say, "This is a problem?"
14 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS)
15 MR. CRONAN: That's everybody's opinion.
16 Some people are thinking -- going to say now it's a
17 significant delay. Some people say, you know,
18 there is not a significant delay.
19 That's an average delay. Some people wait
20 that long, some people don't wait that long.
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Attorney Shekarchi,
22 did you want to examine or question the witness?
23 MR. SHEKARCHI: No, no.
24 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Mr. Harsch?

34
1 MR. HARSCH: No, thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Any further questions?
3 (NO RESPONSE)
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you, Mr. Cronan.
5 MR. CRONAN: Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Attorney Harsch, would
7 you like to give your presentation at this moment?
8 MR. HARSCH: I would be happy to do so,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is there an opportunity
11 for public comment on the traffic study?
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: You will have the
13 opportunity for public comment after, please. We
14 are going to go through the formal speakers first.
15 MR. HARSCH: Mr. Chairman, members of the
16 Committee --
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your name, please?
18 MR. HARSCH: Can you hear me now?
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your name, please?
20 MR. HARSCH: My name is William Harsch.
21 I'm an attorney. I represent John and Marie Allen
22 of 103 Main Street in Hope and Brian Martin of 75
23 Main Street in Hope. Those clients of mine reside
24 within 200 feet of this property and therefore are

35
1 entitled to notice and to participate.

2 I also represent the citizens group referred
3 to as Hope Mill Concerned Citizens.
4 (APPLAUSE)
6 MR. HARSCH: I certainly swear but as an
7 attorney, I don't have to do so. I'm happy to tell
8 the truth because this is the truth.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 MR. HARSCH: I think after that, my best
11 move would be to sit down.
13 MR. HARSCH: Let's see if we can improve
14 on it. First I wanted to thank you, Mr. Chairman
15 and members of the Committee for allowing the
16 opponents of this project to have a word in front
17 of you through me as their attorney. I also look
18 forward to having their own word because public
19 participation, as you yourself said, is very
20 important to the workability of this process.
21 I have two quick points to make tonight. The
22 first is that what is before you in this docket is
23 obviously an entirely different project from what
24 was before you previously and attempts to carry

36
1 forward prior deliberations, prior actions are

2 either expired or are void.
3 Secondarily, the state statutes that apply in
4 this case make it very clear that this Board does
5 not have jurisdiction to hear this matter. Because
6 that is a legal argument, unless there is some
7 reason that you all want to hear it in detail, I
8 would be very brief on that.
9 The application is not properly before this
10 Committee. You don't have the jurisdiction to hear
11 requests for both a special use permit and
12 dimensional variances. The state law is very clear
13 on this point. My memorandum to the Board
14 discusses -- there are relevant provisions in the
15 Zoning Enabling Act passed by the state legislature
16 that says if a town wants to allow its zoning board
17 to have the ability to grant special use permits in
18 connection with dimensional variances, the zoning
19 ordinance must so state.
20 And just to skip to the conclusion. I would
21 simply point out to the Board that we have reviewed
22 the Scituate Zoning Ordinance and find no provision
23 anywhere in it for granting special use permits in
24 conjunction with dimensional variances.

37
1 We ask that you review your ordinance and try

2 to find this provision because it is simply not
3 there.
4 Now, moving on to the second point and I do
5 stand ready to argue the legal point if that is
6 important to members of the Board.
7 We've heard some comments about the relevance
8 of a 2006 zoning board decision. I have two things
9 to say about that decision for your record. The
10 decision in question clearly expired when the
11 conditions set for in that decision were not met.
12 The decision itself was conditional upon receiving
13 final plan approval from a planning board on that
14 project and that never happened.
15 A lot of these actions by the board are
16 conditional upon the success of the applicant in
17 the follow along stages. The condition required
18 the then applicant to return to the zoning board
19 every January for an update. That did not happen.
20 It did not happen in January of 2009 and it
21 effectively did not happen because whoever showed
22 up on behalf of that applicant basically said there
23 had been no change.
24 Therefore, after that, in our view the

38
1 decision effectively expired. And technically an

2 important matter is that that decision expired
3 before this polling statute was passed by the
4 general assembly, which arguably may have otherwise
5 delayed the expiration.
6 Of course there's the other factor that the
7 decision was heavily based on the fact that the
8 project as proposed was providing a great benefit
9 to the community in terms of connections of public
10 buildings as well as the project to the sewers.
11 That benefit is gone.
12 The decision bears no relevance to the
13 application that is before you now and I'm
14 referring to the 2006 decision. Among other
15 things, the application before you now includes a
16 different configuration of buildings where the 2006
17 plan had many smaller buildings. This proposal
18 contains two very large buildings.
19 The application as far as parking variances --
20 where the previous application had adequate
21 parking. This application does not propose sewers
22 as I mentioned. As well as the services, not only
23 municipal buildings but there were also provisions
24 for laterals to nearby properties.

39
1 The 2006 zoning board took all of this into

2 account when granting the relief that it granted.
3 The application before you now is for a new and
4 different proposal. You cannot look at particular
5 variances granted so long ago, 2006 without regards
6 to the entire project as it is presently before
7 you. You cannot review as has been proposed
8 certain portions of the relief previously granted
9 in a vacuum. You have to either take it as a
10 whole, complete with its conditions and its
11 conditionality or as I point out we consider
12 expired and void.
13 Our request is that you review this particular
14 application as a new application in its entirely
15 with each of the components of the plan being
16 interrelated to the others.
17 This applicant is acting -- is asking for an
18 excessive number of variances, which is quite
19 unusual in that regard such that we think cannot
20 find consistency with the zoning ordinances as
21 matter of law and of course you are the
22 spokesperson on the subject of the zoning
23 ordinance.
24 Now, I would like to ask Ashley Sweet who is

40
1 our planning expert to come forward. Her

2 testimony, I think is of more significance to the
3 hearing tonight and we want to get past all of this
4 in order to get to the public comments on the
5 record. We hate to hold them up.
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Chairman, may I --
7 (APPLAUSE)
8 MR. CHARLAND: Before Attorney Shekarchi
9 comments, I just -- one, in terms of legal
10 questions, in terms of -- I've been advised by our
11 attorney that we should not be addressing those.
12 But we are not viewing the 2006 zoning hearing as
13 -- we are treating this as a new case in our
14 hearing tonight, so.
15 MR. HARSCH: We consider that correct.
16 Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: But in terms of the
18 other questions, in terms of whether we have
19 jurisdiction on it, I think that's a court decision
20 or a situation that attorneys can hash out rather
21 than our board.
22 MR. HARSCH: We are planning on Mr.
23 Ruggiero and the other attorneys to give you legal
24 arguments but did not want to take a lot of time

41
1 with it tonight.
2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. Attorney
3 Shekarchi, you had a question or comment?
4 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 I'd like to just comment on Mr. Harsch's -- you
6 stated -- the second part of his argument --
7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Who are you?
9 MR. SHEKARCHI: I will be more than happy
10 to say that my name is Joe Shekarchi. I'm an
11 attorney for Paramount Development, the Applicant
12 before you tonight.
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Excuse me. He has the
15 right to speak. We are trying to make sure that
16 everybody -- we're getting this fully vetted. So
17 please, hold your comments in that regard.
18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Did he swear you in?
19 MR. SHEKARCHI: I don't need to be sworn
20 in. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to state -- Mr.
21 Harsch's position, I'd like to put a contrary point
22 of view in terms of his argument about the Board
23 not having the authority to do so. I believe that
24 that argument itself is a mute point. The Board

42
1 accepted this application. We are at the third

2 public hearing. The planning board has moved on
3 it. Other boards in town have heard the
4 application. I believe this Board has heard
5 similar applications for many years.
6 I just wanted that on the record. Thank you,
7 Mr. Chairman.
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I appreciate it. It's
9 on the record. But in terms of issues like that,
10 that is a legal issue, that would be a addressed --
11 at this point, we are going to go through with the
12 hearings and if it is challenged in court, we will
13 let the courts decide at that point.
14 So thank you.
15 MR. HARSCH: Okay. In terms of Mr.
16 Shekarchi's point, the fact of jurisdiction is a
17 fact. And if jurisdictional determinations have
18 been made incorrectly in the past, that does not
19 create jurisdiction.
20 (APPLAUSE)
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Again, at this time,
22 we are not here to debate the legal issues. Can we
23 move to have your speaker --
24 MR. HARSCH: Yes, I would like to do that.

43
1 Ms. Sweet, please come forward.

2 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Chairman, I would just
3 like to note my objection for the record. I
4 believe at the last hearing, the public portion was
5 closed, unless Ms. Sweet is going to talk about
6 traffic, I believe it's inappropriate to have her
7 testify tonight.
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your objection is so
10 noted, Attorney Shekarchi. Attorney Harsch, can
11 you explain the qualifications of Ms. Sweet?
12 MR. HARSCH: Yes, exactly. I'd like to
13 introduce her, have her present her resume, I
14 think, to the Board Secretary and the Board
15 Members, if they would like to have it and then
16 describe her qualifications.
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. We would
18 like that.
19 MR. RUGGIERO: Bill, can we mark that,
20 mark that as an exhibit?
21 MR. HARSCH: Please.
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: This will be A8.
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: Peter, can I get a copy?

44
1 (COPY SUPPLIED TO MR. SHEKARCHI)

2 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you.
3 MR. HARSCH: Describe your qualifications.
4 MS. SWEET: Good evening. My name Ashley
5 Sweet. I'm a professional planning consultant.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Ashley?
7 MS. SWEET: Yup.
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I need to swear you
9 in.
10 MS. SWEET: Sorry.
12 MS. SWEET: I have a master's degree in
13 community planning from the University of Rhode
14 Island and I have almost 15 years in municipal
15 planning and professional consulting planning
16 experience.
17 I can give you an overview. I have appeared
18 before numerous boards and commissions.
20 MS. SWEET: I've appeared before numerous
21 Boards and commissions, been before the Barrington
22 Zoning Board, the Exeter Planning Board and Zoning
23 Board, Tiverton, North Providence, Hopkinton,
24 Warren.

45
1 I have extensive experience in zoning issues

2 and planning issues, comprehensive plans, zoning
3 ordinances, affordable housing plans.
4 I'm happy to answer any questions on my
5 qualifications.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Any questions?
7 (NO RESPONSE FROM BOARD)
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: You're on.
9 MS. SWEET: Okay. Thank you.
10 MR. HARSCH: Mr. Chairman, I would like to
11 ask that Ms. Sweet be qualified as an expert.
12 (APPLAUSE)
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: And I object. Note my
14 objection for the record.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Mr. Shekarchi, what's
16 your issue?
17 MR. SHEKARCHI: An expert in what, please?
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: She's saying -- he's
19 saying in land use planning.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: Can I ask, has she ever
21 appeared in superior court as an expert? Has she
22 ever been recognized by a court of competent
23 jurisdiction of Rhode Island?

46

2 MR. SHEKARCHI: Has Ms. Sweet ever been
3 recognized by the superior court of Rhode Island or
4 any court of competent jurisdiction of Rhode Island
5 as a planning expert?
6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Have you?
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Excuse me. This is a
9 public comment section of which we are looking for
10 the speakers at this time. Please respect
11 everybody's individual rights.
12 Ashley, could you...
13 MS. SWEET: I have not been before a
14 superior court, no.
16 MR. SHEKARCHI: Please note my objection I
17 don't believe she's qualified to testify as an
18 expert.
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Attorney Shekarchi has
20 noted his objection to this and is questioning her
21 professional qualifications for addressing us.
22 I will listen to -- have your presentation
23 done.
24 MS. SWEET: Thank you.

47
1 MR. HARSCH: May I ask, Mr. Chairman that

2 the Board decide whether or not to qualify her as
3 an expert.
4 (DISCUSSION BETWEEN LEGAL COUNSEL AND CHAIRMAN
5 CHARLAND)
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Can I have a motion to
7 accept her as a qualified witness?
8 MR. DURFEE: I will make the motion.
9 MR. RAMBONE: Second.
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Motion is made by Paul
11 Durfee and seconded by Mr. Rambone to accept her as
12 a qualified witness.
13 (APPLAUSE)
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Board can I have a
15 vote in terms of a yes or no? I need a yes or no
16 from the Board members.
17 (BOARD VOTES)
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. This is a 4 to
19 1 vote to approve, yes. We will go with that.
20 (APPLAUSE)
21 MS. SWEET: I've submitted a report to you
22 taking a look at the project and looking at your
23 comprehensive plan, your zoning ordinance and the
24 town's affordable housing plan, the low to moderate

48
1 housing plan.
2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Sit down.
4 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Chairman, the basis
5 for my objection is that I have not reviewed a copy
6 of that report. So I haven't had a chance to look
7 at it or review it.
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Excuse me. Excuse me.
10 Excuse me. You're not allowing us to conduct the
11 business of the meeting.
12 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: He's not.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He has every right to
16 challenge --
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm at the point where
20 I will be recessing this meeting until police can
21 be coming at this point. I need cooperation.
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He has the right as
24 the attorney representing the client to object to

49
1 any --
2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What about her right?
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He has a right to
6 object.
7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Every two seconds?
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Excuse me. He has the
11 right. We need to establish what's going on here
12 in terms of the qualifications of the candidate.
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: At that point, we will
15 then be able to proceed further, okay. I ask you
16 to be quiet and let this go at this point.
18 (INAUDIBLE AUDIENCE SPEAKER)
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Mike, we can't do
20 that.
23 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Chairman --

50
1 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Chairman, would you

2 please note my objection.
5 MR. SHEKARCHI: I would like to put all of
6 this on the record. I believe this will end up in
7 superior court and I would like the superior court
8 judge to review it. All of the comments as well as
9 the calls from the public as well as the comments
10 by the witnesses. Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your objection is so
14 noted.
16 MR. HARSCH: May I use the microphone, Mr.
17 Chairman? I would like to ask the members of the
18 Concerned Citizens who are in attendance, please
19 allow the process to go forward because my clients'
20 would very much like to have your comments on the
21 record. And one of the things that we do not want
22 to have on the record, if this matter goes to court
23 and I expect that it will inevitably go to court,
24 is an impression for the judge of disorderliness.

51
1 So if you would be so kind to my clients and

2 to the Citizen Group as to hold your tempers. It's
3 not easy to do. I've been in your position many
4 times. But I think it would be a kindness to my
5 clients as well as to the Board as well as to the
6 Petitioner to let this formal part of the process
7 go so that we can have the public comment. Thank
8 you.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you, Attorney
11 Harsch.
12 MS. SWEET: All set?
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I believe so.
14 MS. SWEET: Okay. So I am going to start
15 over. I submitted a report to your Board, a
16 21-page report analyzing the project and its
17 relationship to your zoning ordinance, your
18 comprehensive plan and your low-to-moderate income
19 housing plan.
20 The report is comprehensive. It looks at the
21 matter in its entirety. It's impossible to just
22 discuss parking or traffic because this is directly
23 linked to density, which is directly linked to the
24 Applicant's request for density relief and the

52
1 variances associated with parking, which all lead

2 back to the town's zoning ordinance, comprehensive
3 plan and low to moderate income housing plan.
4 They're interrelated and the zoning board should be
5 viewing them as such.
6 You can't parse out the application into
7 individual pieces. They all rely on each other and
8 should be treated that way.
9 I'd like to just go over a few highlights from
10 my report. I will not go into 21 pages tonight.
11 It's available to the Board and anyone else who
12 wants to see it.
13 The Applicant is requesting some astronomical
14 variances with regard to density, height
15 limitations and parking relief. In my career of 15
16 years working in planning and land use, they're the
17 biggest variances I have ever seen.
18 It is my understanding that they are actually
19 providing more parking than the original plan that
20 was reviewed so I do know that that request has
21 gone down.
22 I've provided you with a detailed analysis of
23 why a density bonus of over 6 million square feet,
24 a height variance of over 100 percent, various

53
1 parking variances, OWTS setback variance and the

2 design and magnitude of this project do not meet
3 the standards and requirements of your regulating
4 documents.
5 First off is the comprehensive plan. That's
6 the town's guiding land use policy document for the
7 entire town. I provided you specific sections
8 within the land use element, the housing element
9 and the cultural resources element of your
10 comprehensive plan that this project either fails
11 to comply with or is in direct conflict with.
12 These sections were not one sentence or two
13 sentences, they were pages of text that I dedicated
14 to that report to highlight all of the sections of
15 your comprehensive plan that this project does not
16 comply with.
17 The zoning ordinance, I provided you with a
18 detailed analysis of how this project measures up,
19 excuse me, measures up against your standards for
20 the granting of special use permits and variances.
21 The Applicant has hardly met the necessary
22 burden of proof that your own standards require.
23 It is impossible for them to stand here and tell us
24 that the project will be compatible with the

54
1 neighboring land uses, that it will not create a

2 nuisance in the neighborhood and that it is in
3 conformance with the purpose and intent of the
4 comprehensive plan and zoning ordinance. Those are
5 required findings for special use permits and
6 variances in your ordinance.
7 How could you add over 400 new residents and
8 almost as many new vehicles to local roads and make
9 the claim that there will be no negative impacts?
10 The low to moderate income housing plan, I
11 also looked carefully at your low to moderate
12 income housing plan and I measured this application
13 against that document and it's guiding language and
14 requirements. The Applicant wants you to focus on
15 the fact that they are providing 76 units of
16 affordable housing when your plan only calls for 59
17 on this site.
18 So they're providing more affordable housing
19 than you estimated from your site and a plan that
20 should be enough to satisfy you. What they don't
21 want you to do is actually read the plan because
22 when you do, you easily realize that the plan
23 identifies 59 units of affording housing for this
24 site, which was 80 percent of the developable units

55
1 for the entire mill building.

2 (APPLAUSE)
3 MS. SWEET: If you just dig a little
4 deeper than their statement, you will also see in
5 addition to the 76 units that they are proposing to
6 give you, they will also give you 117 market-rate
7 units where your plan envisioned 16.
8 This project will actually put you further
9 behind than your low to moderate housing plan
10 envisions in terms of gaining affordable housing
11 because of the increase in density.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Can you explain --
13 you've lost me in some of your figures right there.
14 MS. SWEET: So your affordable housing
15 plan and I attached -- the last page of my report
16 to you is Appendix A of your own affordable housing
17 plan.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We just received this
19 report this afternoon and we have not had an
20 opportunity to read it.
21 MS. SWEET: Okay.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I apologize for that.
23 MS. SWEET: Okay. Well, I will give you a
24 little summary. The last page, the last page of

56
1 the report is a chart from your affordable housing

2 plan and on that chart it identifies the Hope Mill
3 Complex and it identifies the number of units for
4 that complex to achieving the low to moderate
5 income housing goals as 59 units of affordable
6 housing on that site.
7 If you look at the chart and read the language
8 of that number, it says site-specific conversion of
9 manufacturing and commercial properties, which was
10 considered a RMF strategy in the affordable housing
11 plan. Expected LMI units represent 80 percent of
12 total potential units on specified sites. The
13 assumption being that the size of the site will
14 require non-profit involvement with a 20 percent
15 for profit support ratio.
16 So if you take 59 units being 80 percent of
17 the total developable units on the site, 16 more
18 units gets you to the full 100 percent of the
19 developable site. That's what they estimated when
20 they did the affordable housing plan. They used a
21 formula in the plan to estimate numbers of units
22 per site.
23 So your plan envisioned 59 affordable units on
24 that site but if those units were considered 80

57
1 percent of the developable units on the site. So

2 that would be -- you would add 16 to get the total
3 number of units. They're giving you 76 but they're
4 also giving you 117 market-rate units, which is 8
5 times what your plan envisioned.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm trying to digest
7 what you're saying so bear with me.
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: It is not the
10 developer had proposed, I believe it's 70 --
11 MS. SWEET: No, it's not the developer
12 that proposed it in your affordable housing plan.
13 It's the town and that's your guiding document for
14 developing affordable housing.
15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: (INAUDIBLE)
16 MS. SWEET: They have made the argument to
17 you that they are giving you more affordable
18 housing than your plan gave you but they've left
19 out the second end of the equation, which is
20 they've also given you eight times the number of
21 market-rate units than your plan envisioned.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay.
23 MS. SWEET: Which essentially dilutes the
24 affordable housing contribution significantly.

58
1 Those 76 units don't look as important as they did

2 before you factor in the second part of that
3 equation. Okay?
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you.
5 MS. SWEET: The Applicant would like you
6 to view this project in a vacuum and only pay
7 attention to the fact that they're rehabilitating a
8 historic building and providing a lot of affordable
9 housing in the process and it's win-win situation.
10 Except the project can't be viewed in a vacuum.
11 That doesn't consider the impact of hundreds of new
12 residents and cars all have on Hope village and in
13 reality the entire town of Scituate.
14 Hope is already in dire need of some TLC and
15 repair and you can't band-aid that by adding more
16 people and vehicles to the mix. It only
17 exasperates the problem.
18 If you look at census data from 2000 to 2010,
19 there was an increase in Scituate's housing stock
20 of 240 units. Well, subtract 10 percent for loss
21 of older structures, so we are around -- somewhere
22 around 216 new housing units over the course of 10
23 years. This project will provide just 23 units
24 less in a single location in a single project than

59
1 the town absorbed over the course of a 10-year

2 period. That is as an astronomical burden for a
3 small rural town to accommodate.
4 (APPLAUSE)
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Am I correct -- if
6 what your figures are saying, what about our
7 natural growth that we are already having so the
8 total number count would be extorted higher,
9 correct?
10 MS. SWEET: I'm sorry?
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: If you look at the
12 natural progression that is happening through the
13 generations, if you will, the 10-year period --
14 MS. SWEET: Right.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- our counts have
16 been steadily increasing in terms of
17 private-resident homes going up. So that if we are
18 seeing 200, this project will be bringing a bigger,
19 a steeper increase; is that fair to say?
20 MS. SWEET: Yes. This is not a case of
21 NIMBY, not in my backyard. The residents of Hope
22 appreciate that the Mill is in their backyard. It
23 is part of the charm of Hope village. They want to
24 see the mill building rehabilitated into something

60
1 that benefits the entire town and the village not

2 just the developer.
3 The proposal is irresponsible to the
4 neighborhood, the town and the environment. It
5 ignores the standards of goals and policies set
6 forth in the town's land development regulations
7 and ordinances.
8 This project will overwhelm local streets,
9 town services and with sewers in such close
10 proximity it would be environmentally irresponsible
11 to not connect a multi-family mill development.
12 Hope Mill Concerned Citizens respectfully
13 request that the Zoning Board require that the
14 Applicant comply with the goals and policies set
15 forth in the comprehensive plan, zoning ordinance
16 and low to moderate income housing plan.
17 The Applicant should be required to submit a
18 plan that complies more closely with the zoning
19 ordinance and if relief is requested and granted,
20 relief should be reasonable relief that can be
21 supported by the comprehensive plan, not relief
22 that eviscerates all of the town's land use
23 policies, documents and regulations.
24 The Zoning Board has an obligation to uphold

61
1 the town's land use policies and regulations and

2 work in the best interest of the community as a
3 whole, not provide astronomical variances and
4 special use permits in defiance of the regulations
5 that the will -- and the will of the people as
6 expressed through the town's land use regulations.
7 (APPLAUSE)
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Are there any
9 questions?
10 (NO RESPONSE)
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Attorney Shekarchi,
12 would you like to --
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you. I'd like to
14 ask Ms. Sweet some questions, please.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, please.
16 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'm not going to ask her
17 about her report because I don't have a copy of it.
18 I haven't read it. I never received it.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: I still don't have a copy
21 of it, Mr. Chairman but I'd like to ask Ms. Ashley
22 her methodology in putting the report together and
23 specifically I'd like to ask her who her client is
24 here tonight?

62
1 MS. SWEET: My client is --

2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Me. Hope.
3 MS. SWEET: My client is the Hope Mill
4 Concerned Citizens --
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 MS. SWEET: And Marie and John Allen.
7 MR. SHEKARCHI: And I'd like to ask Ms.
8 Ashley if she was here for the first two hearings
9 for this?
10 MS. SWEET: I was not but I have reviewed
11 the transcripts.
12 MR. SHEKARCHI: And did you contact -- did
13 you review the testimony by the school department
14 and the school person?
15 MS. SWEET: I reviewed the transcripts and
16 all of the information that was made available to
17 me. I don't believe that was one of them.
18 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you. Did you review
19 the testimony of the Fire Chief who spoke earlier?
20 MS. SWEET: I did.
21 MR. SHEKARCHI: And you still have the
22 same conclusions after listening -- reading his
23 testimony, you still have the same conclusion that
24 you have in your report?

63
1 MS. SWEET: Yes. That's what I presented.

2 (APPLAUSE)
3 MR. SHEKARCHI: And the same thing goes
4 with the police department?
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I didn't hear the last
6 question?
7 MR. SHEKARCHI: And the same with the
8 police chief who spoke, the police officer that
9 spoke? I believe it was the chief.
10 MS. SWEET: I believe I must have read his
11 testimony in the transcripts. I'm sure I did.
12 MR. SHEKARCHI: And you're aware that the
13 proposed project has an eight-year build out, not
14 an immediate 100 percent occupancy?
15 MS. SWEET: Yes, I am.
16 MR. SHEKARCHI: And you testified about
17 traffic but are you a PE?
18 MS. SWEET: I testified about traffic?
19 MR. SHEKARCHI: Yes. You mentioned
20 traffic as part of your presentation. You couldn't
21 look at it individually, you had to look at it as a
22 whole. Are you a professional engineer?
23 MS. SWEET: When you testify about looking
24 at traffic as a whole of a project, I'm testifying

64
1 as a planner because that's how we look at

2 projects.
3 MR. SHEKARCHI: Can you please answer the
4 question, yes or no? Are you a professional
5 engineer?
6 MS. SWEET: No, I am not. I'm a
7 professional planner.
9 MR. SHEKARCHI: Are you a traffic expert?
10 MS. SWEET: No, I'm not.
12 MR. SHEKARCHI: And when you looked --
13 when you read the transcript, did you look at the
14 revised parking that was presented at the second
15 hearing?
16 MS. SWEET: I did. I recognized in my
17 report that you revised your parking.
19 MR. SHEKARCHI: And did you contact
20 anybody from DiPrete to talk about the approval
21 that DEM gave for the ISDS or the septic system.
22 MS. SWEET: No. I read DiPrete's report
23 and I read the documentation from DEM.
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: And did you contact

65
1 anybody from DEM who approved that?

2 MS. SWEET: No.
3 MR. SHEKARCHI: Did you contact anybody
4 from Bryant Engineering, the traffic engineer?
5 MS. SWEET: No.
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: And did you hear the
7 board's peer review expert this evening?
8 MS. SWEET: Yes.
9 MR. SHEKARCHI: And does his conclusion
10 that supports the Applicant's position change any
11 of your testimony?
12 MS. SWEET: No.
13 (APPLAUSE)
14 MR. SHEKARCHI: Did you contact any of the
15 Applicant's experts to get their position?
16 MS. SWEET: I read their positions.
17 MR. SHEKARCHI: But did you contact them;
18 that's my question?
19 MS. SWEET: No.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. Any
23 further questions of the --
24 (NO RESPONSE)

66
1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I thank you for your

2 time.
3 MS. SWEET: Thank you.
4 (APPLAUSE)
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm going to take a
6 10-minute recess at this point so we have a chance
7 to -- everybody gets a chance to move around.
8 I have -- when I come back I'm going to ask
9 Attorney Shekarchi if he had any witnesses to
10 testify as related to the real estate values and
11 then we are going to open up for public comment.
12 (BREAK TAKEN AT 8:42 P.M.)
13 (HEARING RESUMES AT 8:56 P.M.)
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Those of you that are
15 left, if you can take a seat, please, so we can get
16 moving again. We can't stay here all night.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We are going to resume
19 the meeting right now, please. If you hold your
20 conversations, please, so we can -- so everybody
21 can hear. You obviously know the microphones are
22 not working well.
23 While during the break somebody did drop off a
24 letter to the Board that we will be adding. This

67
1 is from --
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- Cindy Gianfrancesco
4 and we are going to include this as item A9.
5 At this point one of the things that I asked
6 Attorney Shekarchi in terms of any realtors' impact
7 and you said there was no one.
8 MR. SHEKARCHI: The only witness I would
9 like to recall is Mr. Pimentel, who previously
10 testified before this Board as a Land Use Expert
11 just to have him refute some of the --
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: -- some of the conclusions
14 by Ms. Sweet.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. If you would,
16 Mr. Pimentel. I am not swearing you back in
17 because you've already been sworn in at another
18 hearing. Please speak directly into the
19 microphone.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: Mr. Pimentel, I know you
21 testified before as an expert but have you
22 testified in the superior court --
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: -- and have been

68
1 recognized in superior court of Rhode Island as an

2 expert?
3 MR. PIMENTEL: Yes, I've been qualified in
4 every superior court in the state of Rhode Island.
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: Thank you. Mr. Pimentel
7 could you -- were you here for Ms. Sweet's
8 testimony.
9 MR. PIMENTEL: I was.
10 MR. SHEKARCHI: And you are the lands use
11 expert retained by myself to prepare a report
12 that's already been submitted to this Board,
13 correct?
14 MR. PIMENTEL: That is correct.
15 MR. SHEKARCHI: And could you just
16 summarize your findings and contrast them to Ms.
17 Sweet's conclusions?
18 MR. PIMENTEL: Sure. So when I was asked
19 to take a look at this project --
20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Louder.
22 MR. PIMENTEL: When I was asked to look at
23 this project as a land use consultant, the first
24 thing you need to do is see if you can support it

69
1 based on the conclusions, the goals and objectives

2 of your respective comprehensive plan and your
3 affordable housing plans, because there's the
4 reality and then there's the technicality.
5 We all know what we're talking about here.
6 We're talking about an affordable housing
7 development. The statutory requirement is 25
8 percent is the minimum. We are offering 40
9 percent. So we're far exceeding what's even
10 required by statutory requirements.
11 So what we're really talking about is an
12 affordable housing development. And another unique
13 anomaly to this is or element to this, I should
14 say, is we're trying to salvage the Hope Mill,
15 which you noted is a worthy goal and objective in
16 your comprehensive plan.
17 And I used that word purposely, salvaged,
18 because back in 2006, we're talking now 12 years
19 later, it was in a different condition then.
20 Everybody knows what the condition of the Hope Mill
21 is now. I use the word salvage purposely. There
22 are costs involved, there are hard economic
23 sciences involved in these worthy goals and
24 objectives; provision of affordable housing,

70
1 salvaging the Hope Mill.

2 I as a land use consultant have really --
3 really have two tasks. First I excerpt from your
4 comprehensive plan your affordable housing plan,
5 what the goals and objectives are. Then I seek out
6 from the other hard science experts, do we need
7 these goals and objectives? Yes. Do we -- why do
8 we need to provide this density? Why this density?
9 Why do we need 76 affordable housing units? Why do
10 we need a total of 193 units, et cetera, et cetera.
11 There's hard science behind this.
12 We are the ones that crunched numbers. We
13 have performers that show why we need to provide
14 this density. We can show that we meet the traffic
15 requirements, et cetera, et cetera.
16 If we can't meet the hard science, then
17 absolutely I can't stand up here and tell you that
18 we meet the goals and objectives and I wouldn't.
19 So that's why we have all of the experts that have
20 to provide their findings first for -- then for me
21 to review that and make my conclusions.
22 Let me make a final comment because I don't
23 want to belabor -- I've already testified two
24 meetings ago. Every city and town that has failed

71
1 to make or achieve the 10 percent affordable

2 housing had to prepare an affordable housing plan
3 when they revised the statute back in 2004. The
4 original statute dates back to the original 1990s.
5 What was happening between the 1990s and 2004 was
6 that the for-profit market was using affordable
7 housing as a windfall, as a windfall. Proprieties
8 that absolutely could not accommodate it and so
9 forth.
10 Back then, we did a lot of opposition work.
11 Since the 2004 statute, what they said was you know
12 what cities and towns, you tell us what you want to
13 accomplish. You tell us how you want to achieve
14 that.
15 The town of Scituate is a unique anomaly and
16 I'm going to state on the record today that I'd be
17 shocked if this town ever achieves 10 percent. Why
18 do I say that, because the vast majority of
19 resources in the town of Scituate cannot be
20 improved with the densities required to achieve
21 affordable housing because you have the Scituate
22 Reservoir that serves the vast majority of the
23 populous of Rhode Island. Along with the Scituate
24 Reservoir, you have all the land resources that are

72
1 needed to either serve it or give protection to it.

2 I've been asked over the last several years to
3 get involved in certain affordable housing
4 projects. In those areas I've looked at, I've
5 said, "I can't see those densities, not based on
6 the goals and objectives of affordable housing."
7 Along came a project outside of the few resources
8 where you want to see affordable housing, will not
9 impact the Scituate Reservoir, it's in a unique
10 structure where density can be accommodated and
11 we're going to achieve and make a change at (SIC)
12 your statutory requirements.
13 The argument that we need to abide by, the
14 affordable housing plan -- the town of Scituate
15 since 19 -- since the early 90's, right now you're
16 one percent. Since the 2004 rehabbed affordable
17 housing statute, you are under one percent. So
18 clearly affordable housing is not being achieved.
19 So along, like I said, comes a project that I
20 absolutely can support this project, based on what
21 you need to achieve statutorily and what your goals
22 and objectives were pursuant to your comprehensive
23 plan and your affordable housing plan and I state
24 that for the record.

73
1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But you don't have to

2 live here.
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you, sir.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: While you're right
6 here, I think you might be able to answer the
7 question --
8 MR. PIMENTEL: Sure.
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- that the other
10 members have.
11 MR. COSTAKOS: My questions have to do
12 with Rhode Island Housing and the rental programs
13 and assistance. If you go to the Rhode Island
14 website there are different categories of aid that
15 they give.
16 There's rent restricted homes, deeply
17 subsidized apartments, Section 8 Housing Choice
18 Voucher Program and Permanent Supportive Housing.
19 I'd like to know what group -- this is vague to me.
20 What group are you marketing to and -- your -- to
21 make the first part of this viable, you need tax
22 credits from Rhode Island Housing, I was wondering
23 with those tax credits, does anyone go to Rhode
24 Island Housing for assistance eligibility for your

74
1 apartments or is there a group where you are either

2 marketing to or do you have some agreement with
3 Rhode Island Housing that limits you only to one of
4 these groups or -- if I'm eligible for Sections 8
5 Housing or deeply subsidized apartments, am I
6 eligible for your apartments or -- what controls
7 that? What restricts that?
8 MR. DESROSAS: Well, it's income based --
9 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Identify yourself.
10 MR. DESROSAS: Richard DesRosas, Paramount
11 Development Group.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Note that he has
13 already been sworn in. Speak right into the
14 microphone, please.
15 MR. DESROSAS: Yes. Well, first of all
16 the marketing company, the management company will
17 be advertising these units. I'd like to advertise
18 locally, of course, first. Usually, you know, we
19 get quite a few people locally that -- who would
20 need these units, you know.
21 As far as the market rate goes, I guess
22 whoever can afford them. They're expensive.
23 MR. COSTAKOS: Yes, but I want you to be
24 precise so perhaps it's a question for your lawyer.

75
1 If I have a Section 8 Voucher, am I eligible

2 to live in your apartments? If I have a deeply
3 subsidized voucher or if my category is deeply
4 subsidized am I -- is it permanent afforded housing
5 or is it rent restricted?
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: No. This is not a Section
7 8 development.
8 MR. COSTAKOS: What -- why? How do I know
9 that?
10 MR. SHEKARCHI: We don't possess any
11 vouchers. We're not asking for them and if the
12 Board felt comfortable they can stipulate that this
13 would not be a Section 8 Housing in any kind of
14 decision they make.
15 We are not asking for it in our applications
16 to Rhode Island Housing and we are not asking for
17 it today.
18 MR. COSTAKOS: That's what I'm getting at:
19 So you submit an application to Rhode Island
20 Housing and on the application you say you are only
21 marketing to rent restricted housing; is that true?
22 Am I using the right term? Does anybody know the
23 answer to these questions?
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: Well, I don't want to

76
1 mislead the Board. When you say rent restricted

2 housing, I don't know what that means but what I
3 would tell you is that --
4 MR. COSTAKOS: You have an expert on Rhode
5 Island Housing and I spent half an hour on their
6 website and I -- do I know more about Rhode Island
7 Housing than all of you?
8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yes.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 MR. PIMENTEL: Sir, what if I offer an
11 example? Can I offer an example? So you have the
12 one and two bedrooms and we're qualifying them at
13 50 and 60 percent of median income respectively --
15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Use the microphone.
16 MR. PIMENTEL: We're marketing these and
17 we're agreeing to, pursuant to Rhode Island
18 Housing, to our proposal to do 50 and 60 percent of
19 median income based on one and two bedrooms.
21 MR. PIMENTEL: What that means is the
22 median income in Scituate as a total is 90,000 so
23 therefore if residents of Scituate qualified, you
24 would have to be making 45 or 55 or $50,000 to

77
1 qualify to even rent. You have to make those

2 income guidelines.
3 MR. COSTAKOS: The number, they have to be
4 below that?
5 MR. PIMENTEL: Yeah.
6 MR. COSTAKOS: It's not a lower limit,
7 it's an upper limit.
9 MR. SHEKARCHI: Now, let me just explain.
10 I'm being very respectful.
11 MR. COSTAKOS: Yeah.
12 MR. SHEKARCHI: You said -- you asked if
13 -- do we have a Rhode Island Housing expert here.
14 We don't. Respectfully that's really not in
15 consideration of the legal requirements of the
16 zoning, what we are requesting today, but I'm going
17 to attempt as best I can to answer your question.
18 The Sections 8 people that you are referring
19 to could not afford to live in this development.
20 They don't make enough income.
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Not true.
23 MR. COSTAKOS: And I'm just asking again,
24 I'm asking these questions as a member of the

78
1 community so that we understand, to make it clear.

2 MR. SHEKARCHI: I understand that there is
3 an awful lot of false information. There's an
4 awful lot of scare information. I understand and I
5 respect the question that's why I'm trying --
6 MR. COSTAKOS: And I want to make it clear
7 of what it is --
8 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'm trying to do my best.
9 MR. COSTAKOS: So does your agreement with
10 Rhode Island Housing stipulate that it's rent
11 restricted or if I go to Rhode Island Housing for
12 assistance and I'm below the income requirements to
13 get some -- anything from Rhode Island Housing, am
14 I eligible to live in these apartments?
15 MR. HARSCH: Mr. Chairman, with due
16 respect, I don't believe my brother can testify in
17 answering these questions because he is not
18 qualified.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: Again, I go back to the
21 fact that --
22 MR. HARSCH: Objection.
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I will allow the
24 Applicant to attempt to address the answers the

79
1 best he can. We as the Board will do more research

2 to be able to find the definitive answer so --
3 because that is a concern of, I think, of everybody
4 on the Board of, okay, what are we looking at for
5 the types of tenants who will be in the building in
6 terms of -- with the 40 percent of subsidized
7 housing? It is a concern.
8 MR. HARSCH: But he does not qualify --
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He does not qualify as
10 an expert for that. I recognize that.
11 MR. SHEKARCHI: I certainly don't and I
12 don't pretend to be one. So I'm giving the best
13 information that I'm aware of.
14 Section 8 people will not be eligible to live
15 in this development if it were ever approved and
16 built because they simply don't meet the
17 guidelines, they can't -- they don't have enough
18 money to pay the rent to stay here.
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: Rhode Island Housing --
21 Mr. Chairman, please note that this is a real
22 problem. I'd like to note it for the record for
23 the superior court. This public comment is very
24 disruptive to my presentation.

80
2 MR. SHEKARCHI: Please note that. Thank
3 you. That's the best answer I can give you.
4 It's work-force housing. It's firemen,
5 policemen, teachers, people who live in the
6 community, people who want to live in Hope because
7 it's a nice area, senior citizens.
8 MR. COSTAKOS: So can I assume from your
9 answer, which may or may have any dealings with --
10 restricted -- if I look at Rhode Island Housing's
11 website and I look at the basic categories, you're
12 telling me that you believe that the first -- phase
13 1 is 100 percent Rhode Island Housing eligible?
14 It's 100 percent subsidized housing?
15 So the first 100 percent of the people there
16 will be under the rent restricted homes that --
17 that's really what I'm looking for right there,
18 what is the evidence of that? And can you ensure
19 the public that this is the way it will be and it
20 won't change?
21 MR. SHEKARCHI: It's 100 percent
22 affordable. Not 100 percent subsidized. It's 100
23 percent affordable housing.
24 Affordable does not mean subsidized. Section

81
1 8 means subsidized.
2 MR. COSTAKOS: Rhode Island Housing is
3 giving you tax credits.
4 MR. SHEKARCHI: And the purpose of the tax
5 credits is for the rehabilitation of the Mill as
6 well as keeping the rents affordable, not
7 subsidized. Does that help? The rent will be 950
8 per month.
9 MR. COSTAKOS: But does everybody who
10 lives there need to go through Rhode Island
11 Housing?
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'm sorry. Say that
14 again, please.
15 MR. COSTAKOS: Does everyone who lives
16 there basically need to have gone through Rhode
17 Island Housing to be eligible --
18 MR. SHEKARCHI: No.
19 MR. COSTAKOS: -- to live in the
20 apartments?
21 MR. SHEKARCHI: Not at all. No. They
22 qualify based on income and they don't have to go
23 to Rhode Island Housing for any kind of application
24 process.

82
1 There's a qualifying rental agent that will

2 accept applications, review them, make sure that
3 they have tax returns but also have a good credit
4 history, make sure they are eligible and then they
5 would go into an affordable housing unit.
6 MR. COSTAKOS: So you expect the majority
7 --
8 MR. SHEKARCHI: Affordable does not mean
9 subsidized.
10 MR. COSTAKOS: Right. So you would expect
11 getting tax credits from Rhode Island Housing, you
12 don't expect that the majority of the people living
13 there will have any contact with Rhode Island
14 Housing.
15 MR. SHEKARCHI: No. The tax credits do
16 not go to the individuals who rent there. They
17 credits go to the developer for keeping -- for the
18 construction costs and the preservation of the
19 Mill. That's -- those are the tax credits. They
20 don't go to the individual person.
21 MR. COSTAKOS: All right. So there's no
22 -- there's no requirement (INAUDIBLE).
23 MR. SHEKARCHI: To apply for any kind of
24 assistance from Rhode Island Housing, there is none

83
1 whatsoever.
2 MR. COSTAKOS: Just, again, I just want to
3 make it clear for --
5 MR. COSTAKOS: -- for people to
6 understand.
7 MR. SHEKARCHI: No, I'm happy you did and
8 I'm grateful you did. Thank you.
9 MR. HARSCH: May I ask a question of the
10 witness?
11 Mr. Shekarchi, did your client apply to Rhode
12 Island Housing for tax credits?
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: Yes.
14 MR. HARSCH: How many times?
15 MR. SHEKARCHI: I believe twice.
16 MR. HARSCH: And were they accepted?
17 MR. SHEKARCHI: Obviously, no. And the
18 reason they weren't accepted was because we hadn't
19 finished the local permitting process.
20 MR. HARSCH: The Rhode Island Housing has
21 been asked for $1 million worth of tax credits --
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: 1 million and seventy
23 six dollars.
24 MR. HARSCH: -- that was not approved.

84
1 MR. SHEKARCHI: Rhode Island is not --

2 what do you mean Rhode Island Housing is asking for
3 -- Rhode Island Housing hasn't asked for anything
4 from us. We've asked from them.
5 MR. HARSCH: You've applied to them twice?
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: Yes. And they said that
7 you're not finished with your local approval
8 process and come back when you are.
9 And they love the affordable housing aspect
10 because Scituate doesn't have any -- very, very
11 little affordable housing. So they're waiting as
12 we are, hopefully, to finish this year the local
13 approval process.
14 MR. HARSCH: Mr. Shekarchi, why did they
15 apply in advance of local approval?
16 MR. SHEKARCHI: There's rounds of
17 approvals and we applied so we could get some
18 feedback from the project to find out what they
19 like and what they want and there's a review
20 process to go through.
21 MR. HARSCH: And you didn't get the
22 feedback in your first request?
23 MR. SHEKARCHI: No, that's correct. We --
24 part of the process also is to give them an update

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1 so we've come farther along. We have secured our

2 master plan approval and we also have secured our
3 local board approval --
4 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION WITH PARAMOUNT TEAM)
5 MR. SHEKARCHI: -- and we received the
6 overlay approval. So when we go back to Rhode
7 Island Housing, we give them progress reports and
8 updates.
9 So the project has received two approvals this
10 year and we will be continuing through the process.
11 MR. HARSCH: Is one of the problems in
12 Rhode Island Housing --
13 MR. SHEKARCHI: I don't mind, Bill, I'll
14 answer your questions but respectfully what does
15 this have to do with the zoning hearing?
16 MR. HARSCH: It has to do with low income
17 housing because that's been such a major part of
18 your presentation.
19 MR. SHEKARCHI: Never has it been low
20 income. That's a really false accusation and false
21 word to use. We never said low income. We never
22 applied for low income. It is not a low-income
23 development.
24 And to say that is to scare these people,

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1 respectfully.
2 MR. HARSCH: Okay. Low/moderate income
3 housing.
4 MR. SHEKARCHI: How about affordable
5 housing?
6 MR. HARSCH: Affordable housing, if you'd
7 like.
9 MR. HARSCH: And what has Rhode Island
10 Housing said about the amenities which you were
11 offering in the affordable housing units?
12 MR. SHEKARCHI: I don't know specifically
13 what they've said. They've said specifically you
14 still need to get more local approvals and come
15 back.
16 MR. HARSCH: And they also said, as I
17 understanding it, that the amenities being offered
18 were not sufficient to satisfy their guidelines; am
19 I correct?
20 MR. SHEKARCHI: They have never said that.
21 That's a false accusation. I'll put my client on
22 whose had conversations with Rhode Island Housing
23 that they have never said that.
24 And I will ask Mr. DesRosas to state that --

87
1 that falsehood.
2 MR. DESROSAS: I don't know where you got
3 your information from, sir --
5 MR. DESROSAS: -- but I have to tell you,
6 sir, that that's incorrect.
7 MR. HARSCH: Then what is correct about
8 why Rhode Island Housing turned you down?
9 MR. DESROSAS: I think Joe explained that
10 to you. You need to have your planning and zoning
11 approvals. If they give somebody an allocation
12 without planning and zoning, what if they don't get
13 their planning and zoning, then their money is in
14 limbo.
15 They never lose a project. They are very
16 careful to make sure that everybody has everything
17 they need, permitting is all done, then you will be
18 issued your credits if it's your turn.
19 MR. HARSCH: You can see why people are
20 not clear on the low/moderate income, affordable
21 housing element of your plan because by putting out
22 so many market-rate units with affordable units,
23 you actually dilute the affect within the town.
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: If you have evidence -- if

88
1 you have evidence -- that's not true. But if you

2 have evidence that Rhode Island Housing did that,
3 please present it to us and the Board --
4 MR. HARSCH: Okay.
5 MR. SHEKARCHI: -- and the people.
6 MR. HARSCH: I will do that.
7 MR. SHEKARCHI: Please do.
8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I will testify that I
9 spoke to them.
10 (APPLAUSE)
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Mr. Pimentel.
12 MR. PIMENTEL: Please just let me respond
13 to that one question. I've heard the same
14 statement twice, that this proposal --
15 MR. CHARLAND: You have to speak right
16 into the mike.
17 MR. PIMENTEL: -- that this proposal is
18 somehow going to produce less affordable housing.
19 The reason why we've balanced at 193, the need for
20 76 units is taking into consideration that we we're
21 adding units to the housing stock. So we need to
22 offset our 10 percent. So we are not always
23 putting the town of Scituate behind the curve.
24 So when you subtract out the 19 units, we're

89
1 back to the -- what the goal and objective was of

2 the town. At this point too, the expense compared
3 to when that affordable housing plan was prepared
4 is vastly different.
5 To salvage the Hope Mill, the costs are
6 different. Everything has gone up in the 12 years,
7 et cetera, et cetera.
8 But the reality is you're at 0.85 percent.
9 This is going to bring you to over 2 percent. You
10 have been at 0.85 percent for 30 something years.
11 That's fine, if you don't want the project, you
12 don't want the project but to argue that you want
13 affordable housing but this is just not the right
14 density; that too is a falsehood.
15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, it's not.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. I think at this
17 point we've -- you've kind of beaten this horse to
18 death here. The issue will be discussed when we
19 have further discussion amongst the Board itself.
20 We appreciate the concerns. The objective has
21 been clearly made on record that it is work force.
22 The question becomes what the definition of work
23 force is and we will explore that further.
24 At this point, what I would like to do --

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1 Attorney Harsch has been representing many of the

2 Hope Concerned Citizens. We have had numerous
3 people who have spoken prior to this point as it is
4 related to the general factors of this.
5 Is there anyone who would wish to speak and
6 I'm going to ask that you specifically address the
7 traffic that has come on today, and the parking
8 issues that we've addressed. Those are the issues
9 that have come up today. Please address those
10 issues tonight. We -- I want those as priority.
11 Yes, ma'am, your name?
12 MS. HOPKINS: My name is Diana Hopkins and
13 I am a resident of Hope Village.
15 MS. HOPKINS: One of the first questions I
16 would like to --
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Speak right into the
19 MS. HOPKINS: One of the first questions I
20 would like to put to the Board is: What actually
21 makes an expert? In my 58 years of life, I've
22 never seen a doctor testify in a courtroom -- who
23 has testified in a courtroom before. His expert
24 opinion is based on his expertise. It has nothing

91
1 to do with whether or not they've testified in a

2 court before. If a doctor is a doctor of a
3 certain --
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We've already accepted
5 her as an expert witness.
6 MS. HOPKINS: That's not my point though.
7 What I'm trying to say --
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. Please address
9 that because there are many people who want to
10 address --
11 MS. HOPKINS: We have a lot of people here
12 who also have expertise because we have lived here
13 for more than a decade. All right. So I think
14 those testimonies emotional or not -- I'm trying to
15 not be emotional but they have to be taken into
16 consideration as expert testimony.
17 And the first expert testimony I would like to
18 present to you is the application to the National
19 Historic Register, which lists all of our homes and
20 also states that Hope village is integral with the
21 Mill. So whatever happens to the Mill happens to
22 the village.
23 The Application was accepted as both the Mill
24 and both the village. We are abutters. We have a

92
1 say in this. This document specifies that we have

2 a say in this. My house is listed in here, and we
3 all have a history in it.
4 All of our testimony compared to the
5 testimonies that -- has the traffic expert reported
6 to a superior court before? Have they also said
7 that they used similar areas and not our area?
8 Now, if you take the Royal Mills, their
9 traffic situation has been remedied in a number of
10 ways. They've opened a big rotary. They've put
11 lights. They also have a lot of different
12 egresses, in and out of those places.
13 The Harris Mill also has amenities that these
14 densities can relieve such as: We have no
15 convenience stores, no gas stations, no Laudromats,
16 not public amenities that these folks can have
17 within a short distance, which means that they're
18 not only going to be traveling during peak time.
19 They are going to be traveling all of the time.
20 Now, if you have children, they are going go
21 be going in and out to sporting events after
22 school. You have buses now -- I didn't hear the
23 traffic expert talking about the buses.
24 Well, I've traveled for the past nine years on

93
1 that road and every time I get past, stuck by a bus

2 who stops at every driveway, it's not just one
3 place, they stop at every driveway. So that's 98
4 seconds for every time a bus stops plus you got to
5 add a couple of minutes because not only does the
6 bus stop but once a person gets on someone else
7 gets off the bus, they look under the bus, they
8 walk around the bus, they look under the bus, they
9 walk around the bus --
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The bus route would
11 happen no matter what. I'm sorry.
12 MS. HOPKINS: All right.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The bus route is not
14 --
15 MS. HOPKINS: All right. In my expert
16 testimony, I can't even get out of my street as I
17 commute to Groton, Connecticut every day. And the
18 roads are also atrocious. So we don't have good
19 sidewalks. So that's --
20 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Those have all been
21 addressed in the traffic analysis, ma'am.
22 MS. HOPKINS: Okay. So if you have two
23 people per household, if they are working, they are
24 both going to go in and out. Now, this doesn't

94
1 account for the fact that some people might work

2 different shifts. So the peak times are not going
3 to be reflective of 193 units; I can assure you of
4 that. There's people that are going to be working
5 the night shift.
6 And there are no jobs in Hope village so where
7 do you think they are going to be traveling? They
8 are not going to be traveling locally. They are
9 all going to be traveling these roads to get
10 somewhere else.
11 So these kinds of things have not been brought
12 up in this traffic study.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He --
14 MS. HOPKINS: And also --
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Wait a minute. The
16 actually traffic study, he did address each of --
17 that and it did show that the traffic would be
18 coming at various times. They took peak times with
19 that. That that would be where the norm of most
20 people would be going out, between those high
21 traffic times.
22 So it did contemplate those kinds of things
23 and it does take those into consideration.
24 MS. HOPKINS: Okay. So I would also like

95
1 to know if it's the Zoning Board's jurisdiction to

2 follow within the zoning ordinance, then how come
3 our lawyer has to bring up points of the zoning
4 ordinance that have not been followed? It strictly
5 says that Hope Mill and Hope village is to be
6 protected in the master plan and I think that
7 should really ring a bell with you.
8 Also the fact that every time you bring a
9 question to the developer that they state that --
10 it's -- that they're going to get money from it.
11 And that's also in your ordinance that you cannot
12 grant a variance because they are going to profit
13 from it.
14 (APPLAUSE)
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Solely because of
16 profit.
17 MS. HOPKINS: It doesn't say solely. It
18 does not say solely. Also, I would like to bring
19 to your attention that there are other places such
20 as the EPA and the Brownfields Act have done
21 several case studies on the development of mills in
22 rural towns and what their impacts are based on the
23 type of features that they have, what has been
24 working and what hasn't.

96
1 And this type of development does not suit the

2 community of Hope village. It will destroy our
3 community. We will no longer be a village. We
4 will be densely populated people that we cannot
5 support.
6 Also, the Brownfields Act has said that they
7 would give money to help revitalize this Mill. I
8 have been in touch with them. And they are willing
9 to look at the Mill to see that we can revitalize
10 it.
11 So we don't really need this developer. We
12 can do a responsible development with the town,
13 working with you and the town council and the
14 regular -- all of Scituate.
15 (APPLAUSE)
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I would tell you that
17 --
18 MS. HOPKINS: The master plan also --
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- all of the
20 decisions that this Zoning Board makes -- we have
21 received an application. It's our responsibility
22 to vet out all of the information related to this
23 application. That is our job; is to vet out all of
24 the information related to this and make a decision

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1 on that.
2 MS. HOPKINS: And also to serve your town.
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: You're assuming that
4 we are already making decisions --
5 MS. HOPKINS: You've already stated that
6 you already felt an obligation so I am here to
7 address that. At your last meeting --
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I have an obligation
9 to address that.
10 MS. HOPKINS: -- last Zoning Board
11 meeting, you absolutely stated to the community
12 here that you felt some sort of obligation to the
13 2006 agreement and that -- to here and now -- your
14 constituents that are all here to -- there were two
15 meetings to address these points. So to say that
16 we are mute is really unfair.
17 Also, I would like to bring -- I'm sorry --
18 the agencies that approved the previous plan. So I
19 was on the Hope Overlay Committee for several
20 years. And in that time that I served, I can
21 consider myself an expert of that Hope agency. And
22 in that agency, they have denied people to put
23 overhangs over their roof. They insisted on
24 single-pane glass in an age where people can't

98
1 afford the electricity. They have prevented people

2 from putting siding on their homes. They've
3 prevented people from having mailboxes and all of
4 these things they fought and said you will not get
5 a permit because this is not in the character of
6 the town.
7 So I would like to know why all of a sudden
8 there is a switch with the overlay committee to go
9 totally against what they were supposed to be here
10 for? And I think the town's residents need to have
11 an explanation for that.
12 (APPLAUSE)
13 MS. HOPKINS: I would also like to know if
14 Mr. Pimentel has ever testified in superior court
15 because if he hasn't, I think he should be stricken
16 from his testimony today.
17 MR. SHEKARCHI: He has. All of them.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He's expressed that he
19 has. Ma'am, I have eight more people who are
20 waiting.
21 MS. HOPKINS: Okay.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Please wrap up.
23 MS. HOPKINS: All right. I have the last
24 thing about the sewer system. In the original

99
1 agreement, the DEM made three proposals of what to

2 do about WTS and the sewer system. They gave three
3 proposals and based on the original conclusion,
4 they recommended not to use the septic and to go
5 with the sewer.
6 So whatever reversal changed their mind, I
7 would also like an explanation of that because they
8 found contaminants on that property and when the
9 Mill flooded, those contaminants went into the
10 Pawtuxet River, which not only affect this town but
11 affects all of the towns downstream and I think
12 that should be a major concern. Thank you.
13 (APPLAUSE)
14 MS. NOONAN: Tracey Noonan. 37 Levi Hicks
15 Trail in Clayville, T-R-A --
17 MS. NOONAN: T-R-A-C-E-Y-N-O-O-N-A-N.
18 Okay. I am fully behind Hope Mill Concerned
19 Citizens. I don't live in Hope. I never lived in
20 Hope but I am behind them 100 percent and I hoped
21 that the rest of the town would come and do the
22 same.
23 Now, going forward here, Ms. Sweet's report,
24 if you haven't read it yet, I suggest that you look

100
1 it over very carefully with an open mind. She made

2 amazing report work there where she puts excerpts
3 from our zoning ordinance, from our comprehensive
4 plan. She's is not off base. She's quoting it
5 verbatim.
6 And the section in there -- there's many
7 sections but the one I am going to touch on tonight
8 is the part where it's discussing the comprehensive
9 plan or the zoning ordinance, where it states that
10 the developer cannot state a hardship based on
11 financials, that he can miss out on profit.
12 Now, if you look -- you can shake your head
13 all you want.
14 MR. PIMENTEL: I don't need to read it. I
15 can quote it.
16 MS. NOONAN: And if you look in that
17 report, I mean, it blows my mind. In previous
18 meetings, the transcripts that we have read, just
19 the last committee meeting, the developer has been
20 asked by the Board and or the public if it was
21 feasible for them to reduce the number of units and
22 they specifically stated that it was not feasible.
23 They are not talking about feasible like they
24 just feel good or bad about it. They are talking

101
1 about financial feasibility.

2 So we're not denying them the Hope Mill to be
3 renovated. What we don't want is 193 units with
4 two extra buildings being built. We want to see
5 the buildings restored as is. No further
6 footprint.
7 So if they are saying that feasibility-wise it
8 doesn't work to have the extra towers in the back,
9 well, it's a mute point because the comprehensive
10 plan states that they cannot say that it's a
11 hardship for them because it's not financially
12 feasible.
13 That's all I have.
14 (APPLAUSE)
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, sir, state your
16 name.
17 MR. SUTCLIFFE: Lincoln Sutcliffe, 400
18 North Road, Hope.
20 MR. SUTCLIFFE: I was very confused over
21 the traffic studies. One of the numbers was 70
22 more cars. There's 340 parking spaces. We'll go
23 300 as an even number. That's 20 percent of the
24 residents traveling on 116 because they have to go

102
1 in either direction. That number blows my mind as

2 being so low that someone is doing something wrong
3 with their math.
4 I live on 116. I cannot get out of my
5 driveway during rush hour as it is now. You're
6 going to put a feasible 150 cars in any direction,
7 half the people, and that's not going to affect me
8 in that two or three-hour period when I'm trying to
9 leave?
10 Those numbers have got to be wrong. They've
11 got to do a true study to see who is going by where
12 and what could possibly happen. Because I know, if
13 you go down the hill and take the left and start
14 heading for 37, it's bumper to bumper.
15 In the morning, you're going up 116, it's
16 bumper to bumper. I don't go to Coventry that
17 early very often so -- but I've gone and it's close
18 to bumper to bumper. Now, you're going to add a
19 lot more people there. I don't -- I do not believe
20 that the traffic study is accurate.
21 The next thing is and it's to the Board if I
22 can get an answer to this: How many of the Board
23 members live in Hope because they're deciding
24 what's going to happen to those of us who have to

103
1 deal with this in the future every day. How many

2 actually live in Hope and the second part, if I can
3 get the answer to it: How many actually live in
4 the village of Hope where they will be directly
5 impacted?
6 Now, I know you're going to be impartial, but
7 if it's impacting you even more, you're going to
8 look at it probably a little more logically, I
9 think.
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I don't believe any of
11 us live in the Hope village.
12 MR. RAMBONE: I think if -- I think
13 someone, if one of us perhaps did live in Hope,
14 there may be a question of recusal.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: What he said is if one
17 of us were living in the village of Hope, we would
18 have to recuse ourselves the way the zoning -- the
19 procedures are in terms of conflict of interest.
21 MR. SUTCLIFFE: Thank you for the answer.
22 But you're deciding as the zoning board what my
23 life is going to be like for the next -- how much
24 long I have.

104
1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: And we are very

2 sensitive --
3 MR. SUTCLIFFE: I will say, I think the
4 Mill should be developed. I do agree with -- I do
5 not agree with the extra footprint.
6 I thought, when they first wanted to develop
7 it, it was going to be a perfect project for us. A
8 little bit of housing, keep the Mill the way it was
9 -- I grew up in this town. I'm proud of that Mill.
10 Unfortunately now, the disrepair it's in, I can't
11 be. Thank you.
12 (APPLAUSE)
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you, sir.
14 Before we call anymore speakers, I urge you
15 again, please keep your comments to the two items
16 -- of what we've addressed in terms of the traffic
17 and the parking at this point.
18 We have heard a lot of testimony as it related
19 to all of the other reasons for not doing this.
20 But please comment on the new information that's
21 come forth at this time.
22 MS. ALLEN: Hi. My name is Marie Allen.
23 I live at 103 Main Street in Hope.

105
1 MS. ALLEN: This is in regards to the

2 traffic. I will tell you straight out --
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Speak right into the
5 MS. ALLEN: This is in regards to traffic.
6 I have some copies that I can give to you. I did
7 not prepare this myself. I'm reading it for
8 somebody else. Okay. Calista, do you want the
9 copies?
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Can you tell us where
11 these came from?
12 MS. ALLEN: The gentleman who prepared
13 this report is a Hope resident. He's actually
14 retired military, 25 years in the navy and he's
15 also retired from the United States Postal Service.
16 He worked there in several capacities, one of which
17 was travel efficiency and traffic patterns. This
18 was done for cost-saving measures and expediency in
19 delivery.
20 This is his report. It does not cover the
21 evening rush hour. It covers two weekday mornings,
22 one weekday early afternoon and mid-day on a
23 Saturday.
24 They tell me there is a video. He did have a

106
1 video camera with him but it's grainy but it can be

2 provided if you want it.
3 So I'll read it to you. This traffic analysis
4 is based on actual vehicle traffic patterns taken
5 on location from the corner of Route 116 and Hope
6 Furnace Road.
7 The actual data, dates and times were
8 annotated on each separate attachment for each date
9 noted. Please note the following, the actual
10 numbers can never be an exact number due to
11 driver's destinations that can never be exact on
12 any given date, day and or time.
13 The vehicle traffic pattern study of Hope Mill
14 area was conducted on four separate occasions.
15 Each travel pattern on a three-way intersection
16 will be reviewed below showing that there is a
17 possibility that a vehicle can drive straight or
18 turn in said stated direction.
19 On Tuesday, 9/19/17, from 11:58 to 12:13 p.m.,
20 during a lunch period. It was a rainy day.
21 A vehicle traveling into Hope from Coventry on
22 Route 116 can go straight or turn left. Straight
23 equaled 72 cars. Turning left onto Hope Furnace
24 Road equaled 50.

107
1 A vehicle traveling down Hope Furnace Road to

2 Route 116 turning left onto Route 116 equaled 55.
3 Turning right equaled 86.
4 A vehicle traveling toward Coventry from Hope
5 on Route 116 can go straight or turn right.
6 Straight equaled 140. Turning right equaled 43.
7 So that gave us a significant total for a 15 minute
8 -- that was 446 in 15 minutes. Okay.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 MS. ALLEN: Wednesday, 9/20/17, from 7:10
11 to 7:40 a.m., a half hour, travel to work period.
12 It was an over-cast day.
14 Route 116 --
15 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Excuse
16 me, sir. Can you please keep it down. I'm sorry.
17 MS. ALLEN: -- can go straight or turn
18 left. Straight equaled 227. Turning left onto
19 Hope Furnace Road equaled 67.
21 Route 116 turning left onto Route 116 equals 120.

108
1 Straight equaled 110. Turning right equaled 56.

2 In that half-hour period, that totaled 786
3 cars.
4 (APPLAUSE)
5 MS. ALLEN: Friday, 9/22/17, from 2:50 to
6 3:20 p.m., another half-hour period. It was a
7 sunny day at the end of the workweek. It was a
8 Friday.
11 equaled 115. Turning left onto Hope Furnace Road
12 equaled 144.
18 Straight equaled to 120. Turning right equaled
19 142. And that total for that day was 786 and that
20 was for a half hour.
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I just, for my own
22 clarification --
23 MS. ALLEN: Uh-hum.
24 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Is it -- is it

109
1 possible that these cars are being counted at the

2 same time at both of these -- at each of these
3 intersections? Is that the design of this?
4 MS. ALLEN: What is that again?
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm looking at the
6 wording here and it sounds like these -- I can be
7 looking at the 115 and 116 intersections at the
8 same time, you're counting at the Hope Furnace Road
9 and 116 intersection; am I incorrect in my
10 interpretation?
11 MS. ALLEN: Yeah, it's planned out in the
12 map. You see it a little bit better. It's kind of
13 hard verbally. If you look at the map, you can see
14 where the cars actually turned and the numbers that
15 are crossed off are the cars taking a left here,
16 taking a right here. And each turn they are able
17 to make, you can see the numbers are right there,
18 crossed off equaling those numbers. So that is
19 where these cars went. These were the directions
20 they turned in.
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. I
22 appreciate your study and we will take this and
23 compare this to the data that we --
24 MS. ALLEN: Do you want the last day of

110
1 it?
2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Please?
3 MS. ALLEN: There is one more day of it,
4 do you want that?
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We have it in the
6 information that you're giving us.
7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We would like to hear
8 it.
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The public would like
10 to hear it.
11 MS. ALLEN: On Sunday, 9/23, it was a
12 sunny day. This is an hour-long period, 11:30 -
13 12:30.
16 equaled 209 cars. Turning left onto Hope Furnace
17 Road, 125.
23 Straight equaled 158. The ones turning right was
24 105.

111
1 Note, data can be assumed in multiples by

2 total hours, days and or times. Weather info is
3 also affected in travel patterns. These are actual
4 numbers counted.
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you, ma'am.
7 MR. SHEKARCHI: Note my objection --
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I understand your
9 concerns. This is for informational purposes only.
10 It is not an official traffic study; I understand
11 that.
14 MR. SHEKARCHI: Put your name on it.
15 MS. RUSSELL: Hi. My name is Patricia
16 Russell, 425 North Road, Hope.
18 MS. RUSSELL: I'll keep this simple. This
19 is -- my professional opinion is based on that I've
20 lived here for --
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Speak into the
23 MS. RUSSELL: My professional opinion
24 stands on the fact that I've lived at that location

112
1 for 24 years. I've lived in Hope since I was 10

2 years old. I've had family before it, so I've seen
3 the evolving change. Change is inevitable. We
4 need to definitely do something to that mill to
5 preserve it. I agree but not to that magnitude.
6 But when it -- going back to traffic, being on
7 that corner, I understand that you have
8 professionals who put in time to rate the time and
9 how many cars are going in and out, from where the
10 locations they are coming from and where they're
11 going to. Six years ago in Coventry, they had road
12 work. As of that time, Hope was become a highway.
13 It's really sad.
14 We are not urban, which was stated by the
15 group, in all due respect, not to disrespect you
16 but we are not urban, we are rural. We are the
17 southern end -- yeah, you did. Look at the
18 transcripts, you said urban.
19 (APPLAUSE)
20 MS. RUSSELL: If you look at the southern
21 end of our map, we are the beginning of the
22 open-living that a lot of us enjoy, chose to have
23 but then want to preserve historically for
24 ourselves and for the future. There are -- there's

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1 Coventry, not disrespecting Coventry, there's

2 Warwick, not disrespecting them, they live in an
3 area that they wanted to develop. They wanted to
4 do what they did there.
5 The numbers that are being --
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I have to interrupt.
7 Please keep to the traffic that's been presented
8 today.
9 MS. RUSSELL: That's where I'm going. The
10 numbers they reported for the traffic study changed
11 there too. As much as they don't want to put in
12 the numbers here, living in the community and
13 having people that you know who live in these
14 communities speak to you and say, yes, these things
15 have changed. They've impacted how people get to
16 live in their town, whether they get to walk to the
17 pond any more or they're frightened because the
18 traffic is too heavy and they can no longer let
19 their children walk to the Hope Elementary School
20 or the park to go and play because the traffic is
21 coming from Connecticut, it's coming from Cranston,
22 it's coming from Coventry because they figured out,
23 during that construction that we're a cut through.
24 It wasn't like that before. So now, the

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1 magnitude of the traffic has stayed that way. I

2 live right on that corner of 115 and 116. Like I
3 said, I'm not against developing but to the
4 magnitude -- because I can tell you.
5 In the studies, it's an hour here, two hours
6 there. The real time, because I can hear it all
7 because I live right there, is 5:00 in the morning
8 until about 9:00 in the morning.
9 You get a little bit of a lull, not too much,
10 and then again it starts again at 11:30, 12, goes
11 to about 2, 2:30.
12 And then you have about an hour and a half.
13 Once 4:00 hits, 4:00 to 6:00, steady, can't get out
14 of my driveway. If I want to come home at any time
15 of the day now, I an coming from work going south
16 to my home, I have to go down High Street to get to
17 Main Street that way, take a right to go on my
18 driveway, which is right there on the corner of
19 115, 116.
20 It's really dangerous. To mow my lawn is
21 frightening because it isn't just now the traffic
22 that's there, it's the amount that keeps coming up
23 the hill.
24 Look at the sidewalk. It's destroyed because

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1 people do not go the speed limit. Somebody,

2 ill-informed, raised the speed limit five miles.
3 That, in turn, went from 25 miles when people were
4 traveling about 30, which was hairy enough going
5 around that corner because people forget whose got
6 the right-of-away even though there's a stop sign
7 and you've got to remember your traffic rules, they
8 come around that corner at 30. Now they come
9 around that corner at like 35 to 60.
10 2:00 in the morning, no idea where these
11 trucks are coming from because I can't run to my
12 window fast enough -- a lot of them are red.
13 Whoever they are, they go up to 14 or 12 or
14 wherever they go. They're going, swear to God, 60
15 miles per hour. I have broken windows in my home
16 because of it.
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: They -- those trucks
18 should not be part of this housing complex. We
19 have to keep ourselves to -- I'm sorry.
21 MS. RUSSELL: Okay. All right. But what
22 does have to do with the housing complex is:
23 You've got people who you are saying using 1.7 cars
24 for the magnitude of the people that you're going

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1 to have there, who -- okay -- it's myself and my

2 daughter. If it was a two-bedroom apartment, she
3 gets a car. She can't have half a car.
4 What about when somebody would want to come
5 and visit for the holidays? What if you're the one
6 who throws a holiday meal and you're going to have
7 several -- where do they park? There must be
8 reserved parking, I'm sure, which has to be put in
9 there. I'm hoping because where would they park;
10 on the streets? That was brought to me. I didn't
11 even think about it until that was brought to me.
12 But the traffic has changed. And it's
13 permanent now because people have discovered the
14 cut through and how much quicker it is to go
15 through to avoid going -- the traffic has changed.
16 It's not going to go backwards. It will only get
17 impacted more.
18 (APPLAUSE)
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. I again
20 remind the speakers, traffic pattern only tonight,
21 please.
22 MR. MACEDO: Mike Macedo, 119 Howard Ave.
24 MR. MACEDO: I just want to reiterate what

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1 the first woman that came up to speak said because

2 it was such a good point. There are very few
3 resources in Scituate as it is. She was talking --
4 convenience stores, gas stations, places to buy
5 food. Even local attractions like parks, trails --
6 we don't even have a --
7 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: How does that have to
8 do with traffic, please?
9 MR. MACEDO: Because people have to
10 travel. People have to travel to get to those for
11 necessities.
12 Every single housing development I've ever
13 been in and trust me for my line of work, I go to
14 them all of the time, they're centrally located
15 where there are facilities like that.
16 Now, from a logically programmatic standpoint,
17 it doesn't make a lick of sense to put 193 units in
18 an area that is very small, very tight and very
19 historical.
20 I'm all for affordable housing. We have an
21 affordable housing crisis in this state, primarily
22 in this part of the state. If you want affordable
23 housing in Scituate, that's fine, but put it in an
24 area that makes sense. What about closer to Route

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1 6?
2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Again, is that
3 traffic?
4 MR. MACEDO: I waited in line.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm sorry. We have to
6 get -- all these people have to have their say.
7 You have had a chance to put yourself on record in
8 the prior meeting, correct?
9 MR. MACEDO: Yes.
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. You've said all
11 of the points you're making right now. I'm asking
12 that you allow other people to testify so that we
13 have everybody's voice on record. You're repeating
14 the same things.
15 MR. MACEDO: I will say that it only makes
16 sense for an area that, I mean, for a facility
17 that's going to produce high traffic to be in an
18 area that's centrally located for high traffic.
19 Maybe where you guys live.
20 (APPLAUSE)
21 MR. MACEDO: This is pragmatic common
22 sense and nothing more. And from another
23 standpoint, this is a town that's consistently
24 uprooted historical places. Of course I'm talking

119
1 about 100 years ago when we evacuated citizens and

2 dug ground for the reservoir.
4 MR. MACEDO: We have very few historical
5 places left.
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Please pass the
7 microphone on. You've had your chance. You're
8 repeating the same items you have repeated before.
9 MR. MACEDO: I know.
11 MR. MACEDO: The citizens of Scituate --
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: You're just being
13 dramatic. Please pass the microphone on.
14 MR. MACEDO: Thank you.
15 (APPLAUSE)
16 MR. DEVRIES: My name Philip Devries,
17 D-E-V-R-I-E-S. I live in Jaffrey, New Hampshire
18 but I own --
19 MR. RUGGIERO: That may be off.
20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Right into the mic.
21 MR. PIMENTEL: Testing, testing.
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Nope.
23 MR. PIMENTEL: Testing, testing.
24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER. There you go.

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1 MR. DEVRIES: My name is Philip Devries,

2 D-E-V-R-I-E-S. I live in Jaffrey, New Hampshire
3 but I own a home on Howard Avenue in Hope where my
4 niece lives with her family.
5 I read this afternoon --
7 MR. DEVRIES: I read this afternoon the
8 Cronan Report, which is the peer-review of a
9 December 2016 report by Bryant Associates.
10 The Bryant Associates report has never been
11 filed with the Zoning Board. I called Engineer
12 Cronan this afternoon. He said he was aware of
13 that. He consulted the Scituate Town Council. The
14 Scituate Council said ignore the issue.
15 I think you cannot consider the peer-review or
16 report that has not been filed with the Zoning
17 Board. It's unfair to the public to deny us the
18 right to criticize the report and I don't see how
19 you can consider a peer-review without considering
20 the original report itself.
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: That's why we asked
22 for the Crossman Study so that we can make sure
23 that we had the actually data. The initial review
24 that the individual from Bryant Associates -- when

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1 he gave his report, he gave a summary version of

2 it. We did not get the full report and that's why
3 Crossman --
4 MR. DEVRIES: But -- okay. I will argue
5 --
6 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- came up with their
7 study.
8 MR. DEVRIES: I will argue that same
9 volitude. This is not a peer-review or a summary.
10 This is a peer-review of a report that was reviewed
11 by Engineer Cronan.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: But he did much more
13 detail in his report then gave us the information.
14 MR. DEVRIES: Who? Who is he?
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Who? Mr. Cronan gave
16 much more detail for the Crossman report.
17 MR. DEVRIES: So you're saying that this
18 is a peer-review of the summary that was given?
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The summary was given
20 to us. We were not satisfied with the summary. We
21 asked for a detailed report, which Crossman went in
22 and did.
23 MR. DEVRIES: Okay. But according to -- I
24 spoke with Calista this afternoon and according to

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1 Engineer Cronan, the original report has never been

2 submitted to the Scituate Zoning Board.
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm not denying that.
4 We have not received that.
5 MR. DEVRIES: Correct. So I think that
6 invalidates the peer-review because you cannot go
7 to the original source.
8 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: His report gave
9 partial information. It did not give us the detail
10 that Crossman --
11 MR. DEVRIES: Right. But in order to
12 evaluate the peer-review, we need to see the
13 original report. You don't understand that?
16 point but we have the summary version that was
17 given. We were not satisfied with that in
18 representing your interest in the community that is
19 why we asked for greater detail, which came through
20 in the Crossman report.
21 MR. DEVRIES: Right. But the Crossman
22 report does not include the original report from
23 Bryant. In order to evaluate the Crossman report,
24 we need to read first the Bryant Associates report.

123
1 That's basic due diligence.

2 What -- I don't see what the problem is. What
3 is it that you don't understand?
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We don't have that
5 report.
6 MR. DEVRIES: Well, then get it. Before
7 you evaluate the Crossman report, you get it and
8 make it available to the public.
9 Do you understand now?
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I understand, sir.
11 MR. DEVRIES: Okay. I have another
12 concern. I read the report this afternoon. This
13 project is likely to create substantial pedestrian
14 traffic between the Mill and the mini-mill across
15 the street that is likely to effect traffic.
16 That is not considered at all apparently in
17 the Bryant report nor is it considered in the
18 Crossman Engineering report. It's also likely to
19 increase the traffic in and out of the mini-mill.
20 That is not considered in either apparently, the
21 Bryant Report or the Crossman Engineering report.
22 And I'm sure if the public had access to the
23 original Bryant report, we would find a lot more
24 problems. Do you understand that?

124

2 concerns.
3 MR. DEVRIES: Thank you.
4 (APPLAUSE)
6 MS. KELLY: Karen Kelly, 36 Ben Brown Ave
7 in Hope. I realize that you are not --
9 MS. KELLY: I realize that you are not
10 bound by popular opinion and I thank you for giving
11 us all this opportunity to voice our many concerns.
12 It's very much appreciated.
14 MS. KELLY: A lot has changed since 2006.
15 So we're starting from square one as you have
16 indicated but contrary to what the developer has
17 told us this is not a do or die situation for the
18 piece of property as there are many other, less
19 intrusive things that can be done with this Mill as
20 suggested by many of the people on previous nights
21 as well as tonight.
22 This is however, a do and die for this town in
23 my opinion as we simply cannot financially afford
24 the extra burdens this project will place on the

125
1 town with little or no tax revenue for quite some

2 time.
3 Here's a bit of new information that I don't
4 know if you're aware of and I would like to bring
5 to your attention. The State Police have advised
6 that they will no longer respond to local calls in
7 Scituate. This means that Scituate needs to come
8 up with five new policemen and five new police cars
9 and equipment to go with them.
10 Now that our police station is now closed, we
11 also need to fund a new police station and our
12 schools are asking for more money.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Can I ask where your
14 source of information is for the State Police?
15 MS. KELLY: The town council meeting.
17 MS. KELLY: No, Scott Amaral at the last
18 town council meeting, where we discussed this issue
19 specifically, got in front of us and stated that.
20 That's where I got -- my information is coming
21 from.
22 He also threw in something about needing a new
23 fire truck but I thought we had addressed that with
24 the fire department; that's why I did not include

126
1 this tonight.
2 So this is based on the information I was told
3 by the town council in a public meeting.
4 (APPLAUSE)
5 MS. KELLY: How are we ever going to meet
6 these costs while at the same time carrying the
7 additional burden this project will bring to our
8 town in tax dollars and our police station, and our
9 roads and our traffic?
10 I've asked many times what the benefits of
11 this project will bring to Hope and Scituate and
12 not one person has been able to give me a
13 legitimate benefit from it.
14 However, I myself have discovered the answer
15 in an unexpected very wonderful way. The residents
16 of Hope and Scituate are now galvanized and have
17 joined together to do what we feel is right for our
18 community and that is to stop this project from
19 going through as proposed. Never before has this
20 community come together in such a way.
21 Again, we are not against developing this
22 project but it must be in a responsible manner that
23 maintains the quiet rural environment that has
24 drawn and kept us all here over the years.

127
1 (APPLAUSE)
2 MS. KELLY: When you vote on this matter,
3 please carefully consider the irreversible
4 ramifications of the project if approved as
5 proposed. But more importantly, remember what Hope
6 is. Hope is our town. It is our home and it is
7 our future.
8 (APPLAUSE)
9 MS. MYERS: My name is Jennifer Myers and
10 I swear the testimony I'm about to give is the
11 truth --
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your address, please.
13 MS. MEYERS: -- so help me God.
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Your address, please.
15 MS. MYERS: I live at 11 Mill Street in
16 Hope. I don't think I really need this because I
17 do have a big mouth but what you people need to
18 understand --
20 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We still can't hear
21 you.
22 MS. MYERS: Okay.
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: No, speak into the

128
1 MS. MYERS: I live on Mill Street and the

2 traffic that goes just through Mill Street is
3 something that has not been addressed by anybody --
4 because they cut through from 116 to get onto 115
5 to avoid that corner.
6 They cut through Mill Street to go from 115 to
7 116 to avoid that corner. All right? I can sit on
8 my front porch step if you want and I can count how
9 many cars come down that street a day. I can tell
10 right now just to turn right onto 115, coming from
11 my house, I have to wait 10, 15 minutes, in the
12 morning, at 5 of 7:00 in the morning and that's not
13 including the buses because I have timed myself to
14 make sure I don't get involved where the buses are.
15 The traffic that goes through Mill Street is
16 becoming ridiculous. There are no street lights.
17 There are many, many children on that street. I do
18 not want to see a fatality because you people
19 cannot take this into consideration.
20 You don't live in my neighborhood. You don't
21 understand the people in my neighbor. Okay? We
22 are not just people who live in these apartments as
23 renters or as the land lords. We are the people.
24 They are our family. We take care of each other.

129
1 We make it so that emergency vehicles can get

2 down our road because it's so damn narrow. You
3 guys didn't even take that into consideration when
4 you did your traffic report. Not one bit of it
5 addressed Mill Street.
6 And where do you think people are going to
7 park who come to visit your complex when they want
8 to have a birthday party for one of their children?
9 What if they want to have, like I think they said a
10 Christmas dinner?
11 How many parking spaces have you allowed for
12 handicapped people? How many spaces are being
13 allowed for visitors? How many? I would like a
14 number. Can you please answer that question, Mr.
15 Developer?
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: No. No, he can't.
17 That is not for them to address at this point.
18 MS. MYERS: It's not?
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The traffic study does
20 anticipate -- that was done by Cronan, anticipates
21 that a certain percentage of people will only have
22 one car versus two cars and a certain percentage of
23 them are for visitors.
24 MS. MYERS: I -- okay. I've raised three

130
1 children in a three-bedroom apartment on Mill

2 Street. Every single one of them went out and paid
3 for their own cars. My husband and I both have a
4 car as well. So that's five cars to one resident.
5 And you're telling me that when you rent out a
6 two-bedroom apartment, that's only going to be two
7 people. They're not going to be teenagers who are
8 getting their licenses and getting their cars?
9 You have to have adequate parking. You can't
10 park along Main Street. You can't park in the lot
11 that's used for the business at the end of Mill
12 Street. And you cannot even park on Mill Street
13 anymore because we are getting ticketed if we go on
14 the sidewalk so the emergency vehicles can get down
15 the road.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I very much appreciate
17 your comments. I truly do because it's one of the
18 concerns that we have been raising. That's why we
19 asked for the study.
20 MS. MYERS: The study did not include Mill
21 Street. It did not include Mill Street. I have
22 not heard one word about the two entrances to Mill
23 Street.
24 And all the trucks that are going to come down

131
1 when they decide to start this construction

2 project. How many trucks are going to be going
3 down Mill Street? Don't tell me they are all going
4 to be going down 116 because that's bull.
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 MS. MYERS: I want to know who's going to
7 address the people on Mill Street? You've talked
8 about Main Street. You've talked about Hope
9 Avenue. You've talked about Jackson Flat Road.
10 You've talked about Hope Furnace Road.
11 I can spit and make it to the mill. That's
12 how close I live. And if we can't get -- emergency
13 vehicles can't get down there because of the
14 traffic -- the response time is going to go way
15 above.
16 As it was, a few weeks ago, we had a call on
17 our street. It took 27 minutes to get mutual aid
18 just from Coventry. Okay? Twenty-seven minutes
19 with people with concealed weapons in my
20 neighborhood.
21 It took Coventry 27 minutes to respond because
22 the officers that were on duty were on another call
23 in North Scituate and Coventry was the only one who
24 could respond.

132
1 And also, we had another incident the night of

2 the town council meeting and they had a missing man
3 here in Scituate, which, thank God, he was found.
4 But we still had another incident on Mill Street
5 and they couldn't respond. They never responded.
6 We don't have the infrastructure. We don't
7 have the personnel. We don't have the roads for
8 this. How many pairs of shocks do I have to go
9 through driving down Main Street just so I can go
10 see my grandson?
11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: A bunch.
12 MS. MYERS: Tell me? I just want some
13 answers. You're not giving us any answers. Not
14 one answer. You guys look at each like you don't
15 know what you're talking about.
16 (APPLAUSE)
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: There are aspects of
18 your comments, of your questions that we have no
19 jurisdiction over. I can't control what the state
20 is doing in maintaining 115 and 116.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: What we are trying to
23 evaluate is what is happening with the traffic flow
24 that would be added. And we are trying to

133
1 accomplish that and we are trying to get the

2 information that's on -- on the record --
3 MS. MEYERS: Yeah, but did you do Mill
4 Street?
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- so when we are
6 making our decisions, we can evaluate all of the
7 factors.
8 We are taking exactly your comments into
9 consideration as we're -- when we review all of
10 this stuff. That's why we are having the public
11 comment section.
12 We are not sitting here for our own benefit,
13 sitting here and listening to everybody, we're
14 trying to get the information from you so that we
15 can make a better decision.
16 MS. MYERS: Then why does (SIC) so many of
17 us feel like we are being ignored?
18 MR. DURFEE: I don't know.
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I don't know why.
20 That's --
21 MS. MYERS: We feel this is already a done
22 thing.
23 MR. DURFEE: No.
24 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: No. No.

134
1 MS. MYERS: And this is just a formality.

2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: No. I -- that is not
3 --
4 MS. MYERS: And I've literally talked to
5 over 100 people about this.
6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't believe that.
7 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: That is not the case.
8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I don't believe that.
9 MR. DURFEE: You know what? I don't know
10 what he's thinking about this. I don't know what
11 any of these people are thinking about this. We're
12 not allowed to talk about it. Okay?
13 MS. MYERS: I understand that.
14 MR. DURFEE: So how can it be a done deal?
15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Microphone, please.
17 MS. MYERS: You can roll your eyes all you
18 want. I've been to town council meetings. I've
19 been to planning meetings. I've been here before
20 in front of you.
21 I want what's best for this town as does every
22 single person in this auditorium except for these
23 people sitting here because they don't live here.
24 They just want to make money off of it.

135
1 (APPLAUSE)
2 MS. MYERS: All right. We pay our taxes.
3 We do what we are supposed to do. Now it's time
4 that this town does what's right for it's
5 villagers. Because this is -- if you don't want to
6 -- if you want to pass this, change the name from
7 Hope to Hopeless.
8 (APPLAUSE)
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, ma'am.
10 MS. KALASHIAN: Hi. My name is Sandra
11 Kalashian. I live at 54 Armand Way.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I'm sorry. I didn't
13 catch your last name.
14 MS. KALASHIAN: Kalashian.
15 THE COURT REPORTER: Can you spell it,
16 please.
17 MS. KALASHIAN: K-A-L-A-S-H-I-A-N.
19 MS. KALASHIAN: We've heard so many people
20 discussing many things about Hope --
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Speak directly into
22 the microphone.
23 MS. KALASHIAN: I'm sorry. I feel like
24 I'm standing up here representing Hope Elementary

136
1 School students. My son attends. He's a fifth

2 grader at Hope Elementary. I don't know if there
3 is any Hope mom's out there but that parking lot to
4 get in is atrocious. You want to talk about
5 traffic.
6 We don't have enough space for the buses to
7 pull in right now. I can video tape it and send it
8 to your office for you. The buses pull, the
9 principal -- the new principal we've had for the
10 last three years has tried to, you know, change the
11 flow of pattern for pick up and drop off, but it's
12 just tremendous. I mean, it's horrible.
13 I'm always fearing that my son's going to get
14 hit. Parents are pulling in, there's probably
15 about seven or eight spots and then the buses are
16 coming into the far right entrance.
17 We host a lot of PTA events. We do not have
18 enough parking for parents to -- and our children
19 to attend events at our school. You know that we
20 have to use the Hope Library for parking. We have
21 to use Hope Pond.
22 If you put this big development in, children
23 are going to come into play; am I correct,
24 children?

137
1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Only 9 or 12.

3 MS. KALASHIAN: So when we have a problem
4 with drop off and pick up and parking from present
5 students and parents, if you add more to our little
6 school, where are we going to park? You know, we
7 already have a difficult time at open house.
8 I wish I had -- I didn't know about this
9 meeting. I wish I knew about it because I would
10 have video taped the open house about a week or so
11 ago. I believe there was a parent up there that I
12 know actually had to move their car in the middle
13 of a presentation for open house because they were
14 -- they parked at the library.
15 So if you're going to add -- you're going to
16 double the community -- there's 410 persons, right,
17 correct that live in Hope so this project is going
18 to add 450 more persons. You're doubling the area
19 of Hope village.
20 So how can any engineer or any possible person
21 on earth say that that's not going to at least
22 double the amount of cars or flow that's going
23 there now. It just doesn't mathematically make
24 sense.

138
1 And in another term, I mean, you know, I feel

2 like we as Americans really -- Scituate is very,
3 very close. We are very much a community. We
4 very much believe in America. We are very
5 patriotic here. And from what I have heard
6 low-income housing or affordable housing is a
7 politicallly correct way of saying Sections 8.
8 (APPLAUSE)
9 Ms. KALASHIAN: So that's why you have a
10 community that's really upset because the reason
11 why on 95 coming into Rhode Island right underneath
12 Welcome to Rhode Island, it says the state of
13 corruption and confusion.
14 (APPLAUSE)
15 MS. KALASHIAN: We all know -- we all know
16 it. Listen, I grew up here, you know. I'm first
17 generation Italian. My mother --
18 (APPLAUSE)
19 MS. KALASHIAN: I come from a stock that
20 works hard. I worked two jobs to afford to live in
21 Scituate. I saved my money. I was a professional
22 model and a hairdresser and I saved my money
23 because Scituate was a place that I wanted to raise
24 my family.

139
1 It's a place where I've put my hard-earned

2 money and I bought my dream home. And for you to
3 not listen and disrespect all of these people --
4 (APPLAUSE)
5 MS. KALASHIAN: -- that grew up in
6 Scituate and that want to preserve their community,
7 their beautiful community that I fell in love with
8 and moved my family and I'm raising my children in
9 is very disrespectful. It's very unethical. It's
10 immoral.
11 I just question the morale compass today of
12 society and how do you go to bed at night? So when
13 you go to bed at night, you think about Hope
14 Elementary School and the students and the people
15 like myself that get up every day and swing at that
16 bat and work hard and save our money and we are
17 trying to live in a beautiful community.
18 I also -- what was brought to my attention, in
19 Fort Worth, Texas, there was another development
20 called something -- I have it. I will get it to
21 you. It's call Las Vegas Trails. And it was
22 called affordable housing. And the affordable
23 housing turned into Section 8.
24 The United States military right now is in

140
1 that district trying to clean it up. I had a

2 client of mine actually share this information with
3 me. It said it was detrimental to a small, you
4 know, urban community.
5 So I'm looking at this as a concerned parent,
6 concerned citizen and, you know, an American, how
7 can you do that and allow possibly that whole bad
8 situation to come in; for somebody to make money?
9 You know, my question is, how much money is this
10 company going to make on this deal?
11 (APPLAUSE)
12 MS. KALASHIAN: How much money can one
13 person make and, you know -- I mean, where is your
14 moral compass?
15 I definitely believe in doing something with
16 that Mill. I mean, it's an eyesore. It's a
17 beautiful piece of property. Why can't we make
18 luxury apartments? Why can't we maybe make it a
19 greenhouse in the beautiful glass area of the
20 building and try to bring some jobs and economic
21 growth maybe to Scituate or maybe to Rhode Island?
22 Why do we always have to do affordable, affordable?
23 Who's living in these affordable properties
24 anyway today? Why are we all -- why are we

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1 teaching our children that, hey, the government is

2 going to come in and everything is going to be
3 affordable. They're going to change the laws to
4 make it affordable.
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 MS. KALASHIAN: What about the old fashion
7 ways? Our ancestors moved here to this country and
8 said, "You work hard because in America you can
9 make your dream come true." You can achieve -- you
10 can live in that big mansion that he probably lives
11 in or the big, you know --
12 (APPLAUSE)
13 MS. KALASHIAN: -- drives a Mercedes Benz.
14 I mean, why are we telling our children to lower
15 your (SIC) standards? I don't want to tell my
16 children of Hope Elementary to lower their
17 standards. I don't want all of this traffic coming
18 in. I'm already terrified of both buses and
19 possibly other cars hitting my son or any other
20 children.
21 And we have events where we can't even park.
22 I mean, think about that. We don't even have
23 parking spots right now at Hope Elementary. So
24 where are these other, you know, parents, families

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1 going to come in?

2 You know, affordable housing brings in, you
3 know, children.
5 MS. KALASHIAN: I mean, you can't say it's
6 going to bring in three or four children. That's
7 just an estimate. If you do your research across
8 America and you take affordable housing and you
9 talk about -- I would try to get the information as
10 to how many families and who moved into affordable
11 housing. And that's what the people of Scituate
12 want to know. We want to save our area and we want
13 to, you know...
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The school issue was
15 addressed by the superintendent. It was --
17 MS. KALASHIAN: I will tell you this, sir.
18 I am very, very upset with the school committee --
20 MS. KALASHIAN: -- because at the high
21 school level we lost 30 students. They farmed out
22 to different schools.
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: But that has nothing
24 to do with us. What the report dealt with was the

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1 projection based on other similar projects

2 throughout New England and it showed the impacts on
3 their communities. That was their projection. We
4 don't know the -- we're not -- we are not saying
5 that we are agreeing with that. We're not. Please
6 don't take it that we're taking everything as
7 gospel. We are using all of the information so we
8 can make an assessment.
9 And I'm going to be honest with you, I take
10 offense when you say that we are not listening to
11 everybody in Hope. We are extremely concerned
12 about this. No decision has already been made by
13 the Board as to what is happening.
14 We are part of this community. We may not
15 live in the Hope village but we are part of this
16 community and we are very concerned. We wouldn't
17 be sitting here all night long for this now the
18 third night --
19 MS. KALASHIAN: Let me ask you this: If
20 the tax dollars are deferred, if more children move
21 in, who pays? It costs 11,000 to 18,000 for a
22 student to educate for a taxpayer. So where is
23 that money going to come into? Like how does the
24 school department rationalize that with such a big

144
1 development coming our way; do you know what I'm

2 saying?
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes. That's --
4 MS. KALASHIAN: That's inaccurate
5 information is what I'm telling you and they know
6 it and I think it's -- I think it's despicable
7 because we can't -- we're trying to pass a bond to
8 improve our fields, to improve our bathrooms our --
9 more activities for the children. I mean, you know
10 that's going on in Scituate and now we have this.
11 So the people are very concerned about the future
12 of Scituate.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I very much appreciate
14 your concerns. We've gotten way off from the
15 traffic so and that's what we were supposed --
16 MS. KALASHIAN: But this is -- it goes
17 beyond traffic, sir, you know, the situation.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: But we've heard the
19 testimony from the last --
20 MS. KALASHIAN: Yup.
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- two weeks.
22 MS. KALASHIAN: Well, the traffic is in
23 Hope. I will video tape it in the morning and in
24 the afternoon and I will send it to you personally.

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1 I'm going to definitely do that because there's not

2 -- we can't accommodate anymore vehicles or buses
3 in the morning or in the afternoon or at any
4 events.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I appreciate that.
6 MS. KALASHIAN: I just want to let you
7 know that. Thank you.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 MS. LOMASTRO: My name is Jean Lomastro.
11 I'm a resident of Scituate.
12 THE COURT REPORTER: Can you spell the
13 last name.
14 MS. LOMASTRO: L-O-M-A-S-T-R-O.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Is your comment
17 related specifically to traffic?
18 MS. LOMASTRO: The traffic as far as
19 vehicles, vehicles are traffic.
20 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Traffic impact on the
21 -- yes, on the project.
22 MS. LOMASTRO: Okay. I'll be quick but
23 I'm a little appalled at what I heard regarding the
24 housing because I'm a certified occupancy

146
1 specialist and for 25 years I was the liaison for

2 HUD, Rhode Island Housing and people who build.
3 And I can tell you that 1.7 spots per apartment is
4 not going to be sufficient. I can also say that if
5 you're going to open a kennel, you should know
6 something about dogs.
7 You're opening up low housing, you should know
8 about low housing. That's all.
9 (APPLAUSE)
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, ma'am.
11 MS. DICRISTOFARO: My name is Lynn. I am
12 a resident of Hope. I live at 366 North Road,
13 right next door to the Hope Library and this is my
14 second town hall meeting and I do swear to tell the
15 truth as I always do.
17 THE COURT REPORTER: May I have your last
18 name, please.
19 MS. DICRISTOFARO: DiCrstofaro.
20 THE COURT REPORTER: Can you spell it,
21 please.
22 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Capital D-I -- it's a
23 long one, capital C-R-I, S as in Sam, T as in Tom,
24 O, F as in Frank, A-R-O.

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1 I have been a resident of Hope for 54 years.

2 I've seen Hope change drastically over those years.
3 I was only four years old when I moved into Hope.
4 So I grew up and I saw -- I can see clearly traffic
5 patterns --
7 microphone.
8 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Wow, I thought I
9 sounded loud.
10 MR. RUGGIERO: Speak closer, yeah. They
11 can't hear you.
12 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Okay.
13 UNKNOWNS SPEAKER: That's better.
14 MS. DICRISTOFARO: I've been a long-life
15 resident of Hope for 52 years. I have seen the
16 traffic situation in Hope repeatedly -- like get
17 overwhelmed.
18 I do not work. I am home every day. I don't
19 care what time of day or night, I try to get out of
20 my driveway, it's horrendously hard. I inch out
21 and see a car coming -- I live on a blind corner,
22 right, I have to pull forward again, hurry it up so
23 I don't get my butt clipped off. Then I go back
24 up. I do this I can't tell you how many times I

148
1 have to do this in the course of a week. It's very

2 annoying.
3 Years ago, I could stand in my yard and have a
4 conversation with my neighbor next door, across the
5 street from me. Now it's like -- it's so annoying
6 the road noise is horrendously -- it's so loud. I
7 can't hear myself speak, okay. I have to cross the
8 street -- I live on that blind corner.
9 People come flying around the corner, 40, 50
10 miles an hour. They don't care. They don't know
11 the library's there, half of them because they're
12 on their cell phone or whatever they are doing.
13 They are not paying attention.
14 I cannot tell you how many times I almost go
15 hit on my motorcycle coming out of my driveway or
16 on 115 or 116. Just yesterday, I came down that
17 road, it was approximately, I want to say 2:15 when
18 I left my house. I went to take a left-hand turn
19 on 115 and this guy at the stop sign -- how do you
20 not see me, bright red bike, my helmet's on, I've
21 got a directional on, I've got a Harley coat on,
22 right -- not many men miss me, let me tell you when
23 I come blazing down the street on my motorcycle.

149
1 MS. DICRISTOFARO: And this guy cut me off

2 and I went into a spin. Thank God I am an
3 experienced motorcyclist because I would have
4 gotten killed, all right.
5 Hope Furnace Road is another irritating
6 hazardous waste of my life. Every single time I
7 come home from Coventry, I really got -- I only got
8 one eye right now, too, I'm blind in this eye so
9 you can imagine my horror and my fear of driving
10 down safely through the town of Hope in any which
11 direction I'm coming from, all right.
12 Hope Furnace Road, I've seen many accidents in
13 the course of 52 years there, in and out of that
14 road. I've been a witness to them, okay. So I
15 know the dangers of people coming in and out of
16 that darn intersection. Now put a Hope Mill there,
17 you've got all these extra burdens.
18 I'm also a landlord, okay. I have one tenant
19 in particular who had his son and him living at my
20 apartment house. Now, this was in West Warwick,
21 okay, where I am landlord there. They had not one
22 car, not two, they had three. The man used to plow
23 for a living so he had a pickup truck. He had a
24 regular little car and his son had a car too. So

150
1 whoever's thinking out there that people are only

2 going to have 1.7 and a 77 -- whatever you want to
3 call it of a vehicle, you're highly mistaken.
4 You're lying to yourself.
5 And I do believe that affordable income,
6 little cliche you're saying here -- it's a twist on
7 words of what it really is. It's low-income
8 housing, Section 8. I know all about it too
9 because of me being a landlord, all right.
10 And whatever you do now -- yeah, it's
11 affordable luxury, whatever you want to call it,
12 right, but then, once it's built, who's stopping
13 you from changing up the law or what your situation
14 was. All I know is that I'm always being asked to
15 be a Section 8 representative here and taking it
16 in. I'm lucky I'm a furnished apartment
17 efficiency.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Again, you're drifting
19 from the traffic.
20 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Oh, it all has to do
21 with traffic flow and everything else in the mix,
22 okay.
23 There were two things we were supposed to
24 discuss tonight and I think what, the tax --

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1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Parking.

2 MS. DICRISTOFARO: -- burden. Let me tell
3 you another thing that really pisses me off.
5 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Sunday I called the
6 Scituate Police Department to come to my house,
7 right at the library. It took them I can't even
8 tell you how many minutes and do you know why?
9 Because there was nobody to come to my aid.
10 Instead three Coventry cops -- how come three
11 Coventry cops can come to my house but not my own
12 town? All right. I didn't call Coventry. I don't
13 want Coventry in my damn neighborhood. I don't
14 like Coventry cops to be honest with you.
15 (APPLAUSE)
16 MS. DICRISTOFARO: All right. I speak
17 from the heart, all right.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We can't deal with --
19 we have to deal with --
20 MS. DICRISTOFARO: You're going to ruin
21 Hope. Okay.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: -- the traffic issues,
23 please.
24 MS. DICRISTOFARO: The traffic flow is

152
1 ridiculous. I jump out of my skin. I cannot even

2 talk on my phone in my own front yard.
3 The library traffic is horrendous, too. I've
4 got people parking all alongside of my wall, okay.
5 My own friends can't come and park there because
6 the library traffic is horrendous.
7 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. You've
8 indicated that.
9 MS. DICRISTOFARO: Need I say more,
10 people? Please don't do this to Hope. You're
11 going to ruin the gorgeous, secure town. It's not
12 even a town. It's a village, mind you. All right.
13 I live in the town of Hope my whole life and I want
14 it to stay that way -- hopeful that it won't be
15 destroyed. Thank you.
17 (APPLAUSE)
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, please.
19 MS. JONES: Linda Jones, 63 Howard Avenue.
21 MS. JONES: This is going to be very short
22 and sweet because I talked once before. I'm a
23 retired teacher. We've lived here for 45 years in
24 Hope. We're very blessed. We have six acres of

153
1 land where my three kids could --

4 MR. JONES: Okay. I have three kids who
5 are grown but they grew up on six acres, very rural
6 area on Howard Avenue. And I'm very concerned
7 listening to everyone talk about the traffic and
8 the taxes. Has anybody thought about what another
9 maybe 100 children will do? We talked about
10 parking lots.
11 Where are the children going to play? My kids
12 could play on the six acres we had or go to the
13 Hope pond where they all learned how to become
14 lifeguards. But where are these kids going to
15 play?
16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The streets.
17 MS. JONES: Anybody got an answer?
19 MS. JONES: In the streets. That's my
20 question because I'm very concerned about our
21 children.
23 (APPLAUSE)
24 MR. MILLER: My name is Bruce Miller. I

154
1 live at 6 Bunny Trail.

2 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: What was your name,
3 please.
4 MR. MILLER: Bruce Miller.
6 MR. MILLER: I have one question about the
7 Section 8 --
9 microphone.
10 MR. MILLER: I have one question about the
11 Section 8. He's saying, well Section 8 won't be
12 able to afford that $900 apartment that use (SIC)
13 are going to put in there. They drive Cadillacs,
14 Fleetwood Cadillacs.
15 I work for the Providence Housing. Thirty --
16 I've been there 27 years. You want to talk about
17 projects, Hartford, Manton, Chad Brown, Paragon,
18 Roger Williams. I do it all, brother, all.
19 All you guys are here to make money. I know
20 what you're doing. Section 8 is guaranteed money.
21 They're going to get paid. If their tenant don't
22 pay, the government's going to pay it, absolutely.
23 So how can you say they're not going to able
24 to afford it because it's going to be $900. Some

155
1 of the people are paying $1,000 --

2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That's right.
3 MR. MILLER: -- because the government is
4 paying and it's not out of their pockets and
5 they're driving Lincolns.
6 If you don't think -- trust me. Look into it.
7 I live it every day. I live it every day. I live
8 it.
9 You talk about rescues. Cops, you need five
10 cops, hell no, you're going to need 25, 25. Go to
11 Broad Street every day. Go by here. Five rescues
12 a day. Why? Why? Oh, well, they got their check.
13 I'm going to get high. So he falls in the street
14 and the rescue picks him up. Five times a day.
15 The rescue is on Broad Street. On Broad Street
16 because of alcohol, drugs. Think about -- think
17 about your rescue going five times a day when
18 someone is having a heart attack.
19 Section 8, forget about it. Forget about it.
20 It destroys it.
21 (APPLAUSE)
22 MR. MILLER: It destroys the neighborhood,
23 your dignity. I'm a working man. I worked my
24 whole life. I ain't got much but I work hard.

156
1 And yes, I'm an expert. I am an expert, yes.

2 (APPLAUSE)
3 MR. MILLER: I'm fortunate to live -- I'm
4 fortunate with all my heart. I'm fortunate to live
5 here. I came up out of the projects. I worked my
6 ass off every day of my life to get out of the
7 projects, to get away from that stuff.
8 People, you have no clue what you're getting
9 into. No clue. Believe me when I -- forget about
10 your traffic. Forget about that. I've got fishing
11 poles outside of my house right now because I wash
12 them and put them up there. I leave them outside.
13 My other house, lock them up. I lock everything up
14 and that's what you're going to be doing.
15 That's all I have to say. Have a good day.
16 (APPLAUSE)
17 MR. DORSI: Good evening. My name is Bob
18 Dorsi. I live at 345 Chompmist Hill Road in Hope.
20 THE COURT REPORTER: Spell your last name,
21 please.
22 MR. DORSI: D-O-R-S-I. My only comment is
23 in regards to the traffic study. I think the 1.7
24 cars is a real unrealistic number. You should

157
1 ultimately be planning for about 400 cars coming

2 into the area at full capacity. With that, you're
3 looking at 400 cars in that area. It's a very
4 limited roadway.
5 What happens to our steak fries at the
6 firehouse? Kiss those goodbye. What happens to
7 the 4th of July fireworks? Kiss those goodbye
8 because the roadway is going to be so congested
9 you're not going to be able to have the little
10 functions that we have now, which makes Hope, Hope.
11 I've lived here for nearly 40 years. I'm a
12 gradate of Scituate High School. I love this area.
13 I've been here for a long time. What happens when
14 there is an accident on the road? Can you imagine
15 what the traffic situation is going to be like with
16 one car being blocked -- I've been a police officer
17 for over 20 years. It's going to happen.
18 You get a ticket. The rubberneckers are going
19 to slow down. Traffic is going to be horrendous
20 with the addition of 400 cars to this area.
21 Now, you people here have all mentioned that
22 you don't live in the area. I challenge you all
23 and the attorneys for the project, come through the
24 area at rush hour and see what it's like. See what

158
1 it's like to stand behind, you know, waiting for a

2 bus to come by, waiting in line for traffic. Now
3 include 400 cars to the area.
4 We've got a library. We've got a pond. We've
5 got a fire station, a police station, a convenience
6 store, elementary school. There's a lot of kids in
7 the area. That, including that many cars is going
8 to hurt that area.
9 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Somebody is going to get
10 hurt.
11 MR. DORSI: That's all I've got to say.
12 (APPLAUSE)
13 MS. SMITH: My name is Dawn Smith and I
14 swear to tell the truth.
15 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: What's your address,
16 please.
17 MS. SMITH: 22 High Street, Hope.
19 MS. SMITH: And I drive a school bus and
20 it's tremendous. You cannot get out of Hope
21 Furnace Road and you can't get through Hope even
22 right now. So add that many more people and that
23 many more cars, it's going to take me maybe another
24 hour to get these kids to school.

159
1 I don't know. It's really bad and the traffic

2 is really bad.
3 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And that's now.
4 MS. SMITH: Thank you.
5 (APPLAUSE)
6 MR. DURAN: Good evening. My name is Al
7 Duran. I live at 12 Jackson Flat Road in Hope.
9 MR. DURAN: I want to speak to the
10 parking. Like everybody else before me, they
11 talked about parking at the complex and a couple of
12 people mentioned holidays, if there is a wedding, a
13 birthday, special events, those sort of things.
14 They're going to need more than 1.77 spaces.
15 And at that point, where do they park? I know
16 people on Mill Street. I grew up in the
17 neighborhood. I live on Jackson Flat Road now.
18 The property has been in my parent's family since
19 1953. I've been there since the late 70s, early
20 80s and I know about traffic.
21 Currently, right now, on Main Street in
22 Fiskeville, there is a bridge out and so the
23 construction has closed that road off and traffic
24 comes down Jackson Flat Road, obviously, goes to

160
1 the town of Hope. If they want to go back up Seven

2 Mile Road, they've got to take Hope Avenue and then
3 go Seven Mile Road. They go through Main Street
4 and they go around 116 to 115.
5 So traffic, I haven't counted cars, but, you
6 know what, maybe I should get a lunch pail and go
7 20 feet from my door, sit out front and count cars
8 for 24-hours and let you know how many go by,
9 trucks, cars and whatever have you.
10 But tonight there was testimony from Mr.
11 Corrin, is that his name?
12 MR. PIMENTEL: Cronan.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Cronan.
14 MR. DURAN: Mr. Cronan. And he's an
15 expert?
16 MR. PIMENTEL: Professional engineer.
17 MR. DURAN: Special engineer.
18 MR. PIMENTEL: Professional.
19 MR. DURAN: Oh, professional engineer. So
20 you would just consider him an expert at what he
21 talked about I'm sure. But he made a couple of
22 statements and he said, "Seems like they have quite
23 a bit of parking." Well, when someone like that
24 says seems like, that means they're really not sure

161
1 where I come from.

2 And then he made a statement, "Probably 100
3 cars an hour for a state traffic study." Probably?
4 I mean, the things don't line up here.
5 Just like the previous zoning meetings, the
6 attorney for the developer had expert witnesses
7 testify and they used words like maybe, I don't
8 know, I can't answer that and I'm not sure.
9 Now, how can an expert stand before you and
10 make those statements or use those words in their
11 testimony and their statements and it be an expert
12 or viable to the community and the development? I
13 find that very hard to believe.
14 And by the way, if a police officer sits at
15 the speed limit side of 30 miles per hour, which he
16 said could be moved one way or another, that's the
17 only way people are going to do 30 miles an hour.
18 If there's no cop there, they're going to go 40,
19 50.
20 I live on Jackson Flat Road, the speed limit
21 is 25. I don't think so. I've seen them go by at
22 40. I get to the top of my driveway fortunately I
23 can pull out head first with the car, I look to
24 right, I look to my left, I look to my right again,

162
1 I pull out. The next thing I know, I've got two

2 headlights and a grille in my rear-view mirror,
3 right on my ass.
4 So there's speeding involved. And there will
5 be more speeding involved because you're going to
6 have more cars, more traffic. It just escalates,
7 exasperates the situation in the traffic portion of
8 this thing.
9 The other thing is, maybe a traffic signal --
10 he mentioned that in his testimony. Well, by the
11 time the state comes around to do a study for a
12 traffic signal, there's going to be a lot more
13 accidents that happen there right now.
14 So on the other side of that coin is, if there
15 was a traffic signal on Hope Furnace Road and 116,
16 there would be a Dunkin Donuts in that property
17 right there. So now, when you throw a Dunkin
18 Donuts at the traffic signal because that's what
19 they want -- they want traffic controls. Whenever
20 you see a Dunkin Donuts there is always a light or
21 something. There's going to be more cars. More
22 traffic because people need to have their Dunkin
23 Donuts in the morning. It's like, it just doesn't
24 add up in the -- on traffic side.

163
1 The other question I have for the Zoning Board

2 is: There was mention tonight, I believe from Mr.
3 Harsch about the state statute and how the Board
4 has no jurisdiction on this project. So my
5 question would be for the town attorney, the
6 attorney for the Zoning Board is: Has anyone
7 researched that statute to see if that's true?
8 MR. RUGGIERO: It's not a matter for this
9 Board to decide. It has -- if someone appeals this
10 decision, then a court will make that decision.
11 MR. DURAN: Okay. So noted.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: He noted that it is
13 not the Zoning Board's decision to decide that.
14 It's up to -- if someone appeals this to have the
15 court decide that issue.
16 MR. DURAN: And would that also be true
17 for Ms. Sweet's testimony about -- does not comply
18 with the town of Scituate's Comprehensive Plan by
19 the Zoning Board; is that true there too?
20 You're saying, no. No, what?
21 MR. RUGGIERO: Do you want me to tell him?
22 The difference -- her testimony is factual. It's
23 not a legal issue.
24 MR. DURAN: Okay.

164
1 MR. RUGGIERO: So it's up to the Zoning

2 Board to decide if they accept it or reject it and
3 that's factual information.
4 MR. DURAN: In your opinion, as an
5 attorney, is it --
6 MR. RUGGIERO: I can't give you that
7 answer, sir.
8 MR. DURAN: Excuse me?
9 MR. RUGGIERO: I don't vote. I can't give
10 you that answer.
11 MR. DURAN: You don't have to vote.
12 You're the attorney for the town. I think the
13 taxpayers of the town pay you somewhere down the
14 line.
15 MR. RUGGIERO: I can't do it.
16 MR. DURAN: All right.
17 MR. RUGGIERO: Nice try though.
18 MR. DURAN: So noted. And then the issue
19 of rent restricted -- also, by the way, in the
20 earlier testimony, the attorney's expert for
21 developer used the word -- used the phrase,
22 workforce housing. Now, their testimony went on to
23 say it is going to be workforce housing for
24 teachers or a fireman or policeman that want to

165
1 move in and live in this complex. But I don't know

2 if they've got a list of people from the town that
3 want to move into this complex, but I think it
4 would behoove them to maybe start one so they can
5 prove that if it's going to be for workforce that
6 would be a good definition there.
7 And the other thing is affordable housing.
8 Well, let me just say, if I have a $2300 a month
9 mortgage and I pay my mortgage on time, I consider
10 that affordable housing for me.
11 (APPLAUSE)
12 MR. DURAN: Now, if this complex is going
13 to have affordable housing, at what level -- what
14 level of the housing does it start at? Five
15 hundred a month with a subsidy from the Rhode
16 Island Housing Authority for tax credits? Or will
17 it be starting the $1,200 a month and up from
18 there?
19 So you're telling me -- well, they said
20 tonight no one who's on Sections 8 will not be able
21 to afford to live there. And I agree with one of
22 the gentleman that spoke before me about subsidies.
23 If they get a subsidy from the government, I think
24 they can afford to live anywhere.

166
1 And the other would be -- with that would be,

2 okay, police, fire, we've got to worry about that.
3 We also have to worry about junk cars, you know, if
4 it doesn't run they put it up on blocks, two wheels
5 are missing. So you're going to have parking
6 issues coincide with junk cars and debris on the
7 properties. So it will be on Mill Street, sorry to
8 say, ma'am, they'll be parking on your street or
9 somewhere on 116.
10 So you're going to have issues with all of
11 those things. When you bring that many people in
12 to one area like that, you're definitely going to
13 have a lot of trash and I mean that in more ways
14 than one.
15 RI Housing Tax Credits, so what do they do?
16 They sell the tax credits to companies that buy
17 them like venture capitalists and they turn around
18 and sell them and make money. So I'm not sure if
19 anyone involved is, you know, involved in the tax
20 credits or the tax sales of this thing -- and I do
21 know that there was a statement made by the
22 developer that if he doesn't get tax credits, that
23 he can't go forward with this project -- but that's
24 an issue for the town council.

167
1 So that's my rant. And I thank you for

2 letting me have my say tonight.
3 (APPLAUSE)
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: At this point, I am
5 going -- I believe we've heard everybody.
6 MR. COSTAKOS: Before we adjourn. Can we
7 ask our expert some more questions?
8 MR. CHARLAND: You want to ask?
9 MR. COSTAKOS: Yes.
10 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: This would be the
11 appropriate time to....
12 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Can I ask one more
13 question first, before you do that?
14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I would like to speak as
15 well.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: You've had your
17 chance, ma'am. You've already had that.
18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'll be quick. I have
19 another question.
21 MR. COSTAKOS: How do you reconcile the
22 discrepancies between the observations of the local
23 residents versus the study that you did the
24 peer-review on? I mean, how -- and then, what --

168
1 that document that I passed on to you, are those

2 numbers even possible? Where -- why is there such
3 a large discrepancy? How can there be -- is this
4 normal? Can you explain this? What causes this?
5 MR. CRONAN: The report here that you gave
6 me, I haven't had a chance to really compare them
7 all, the numbers.
8 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. I cannot
9 hear you.
10 MR. RUGGIERO: Use the microphone.
11 MR. CRONAN: I haven't had a chance to
12 compare all of the numbers but a quick view of it
13 doesn't seem much higher than what I had in the
14 report.
15 MR. COSTAKOS: (INAUDIBLE)
16 MS. MCDERMOTT: Dean, we can't hear.
17 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. We can't
18 hear down here.
19 MS. MCDERMOTT: Dean, we can't hear you.
20 MR. RUGGIERO: You both have to use the
21 microphone.
22 MR. COSTAKOS: Didn't his -- again, I'm
23 not even sure if we're supposed to give any
24 credence to this document. But this is anecdotal

169
1 evidence --
2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: People aren't dumb out
3 here.
4 MR. COSTAKOS: And this person put some
5 effort into this or multiple people. It seems like
6 you would need multiple people to keep track of all
7 of those cars. For those numbers to be true, I
8 don't see how you can keep track of, you know, X --
9 you know, some number of cars per second and also
10 keep track if they went left, they went right, they
11 went right or there's another car.
12 I can't even imagine how one person could have
13 done that. But what do you see in those numbers?
14 Are those numbers possible? And how do you
15 reconcile the difference between your official
16 traffic studies and their anecdotal evidence? Have
17 you see this before? Do people -- I know in --
18 eyewitnesses make very poor witnesses in crimes and
19 things like that. But is it also true that people
20 living there, seeing things that really aren't
21 there or something along those lines?
22 MR. CRONAN: One count I'm looking at is
23 7:10 to 7:40 in the morning, a half hour.
24 (INAUDIBLE) North bound -- this is at Hope Furnace

170
1 Road. North bound is --

2 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. I cannot
3 understand what you're saying. It is really
4 muffled.
5 MR. CRONAN: Northbound, straight the
6 traffic count that was done, there was 452 vehicle.
7 The traffic count that was down for the study was
8 342 vehicles.
9 Southbound was 240. The traffic study had
10 180. This was a half hour count. I doubled it
11 based on that.
12 Turning into Hope Furnace was much higher in
13 this count -- 134 lefts, we had 28 lefts.
14 (INAUDIBLE) 112 Rights. They had 78 rights.
15 (INAUDIBLE)
16 240 left out of Hope Furnace. The traffic
17 count had 270. So the traffic count was a little
18 higher. 170 right turns out of -- traffic count
19 only had 73 turns.
20 So overall, the traffic showed less. A couple
21 movements were close. One movement was higher in
22 the traffic count for the morning.
23 MR. COSTAKOS: So are you saying these
24 numbers that you're seeing are in line -- somewhere

171
1 in line with the --

2 MS. MCDERMOTT: Dean, talk into the mic.
3 MR. CRONAN: (INAUDIBLE)
4 MR. COSTAKOS: So are you saying these
5 numbers are in line or within somewhat the numbers
6 that you've seen on the official traffic study?
7 MR. CRONAN: Some numbers were closer,
8 some numbers are higher.
10 MR. COSTAKOS: Do you give any credence to
11 this document? Do you give any credence to this
12 document?
13 MR. CRONAN: I can't say no because I
14 wasn't there but I --
15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Can you tell us the
16 period of time?
17 MR. CRONAN: I did review the traffic.
18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What was the time?
19 MR. CRONAN: They do one on Friday
20 afternoon, 2:15 - 2:20. So there, I doubled the
21 values.
22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about when school
23 gets out?
24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We need a professional

172
1 opinion.
2 MR. CRONAN: They had 230 going north.
3 Our traffic count, the traffic count was 309 so we
4 were higher. They have 240 going south. We have
5 426 going south, so we were much higher. We had
6 284 going right. We had 220 going right so we were
7 a little lower.
8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Was your count for an
9 hour?
10 MR. CRONAN: They were 234 coming out of
11 Hope Furnace taking a left. We only showed 98 so
12 we were much lower.
13 They have 216 making a right out of Hope
14 Furnace. We only had 49.
15 116 traffic, we were higher. Hope Furnace
16 traffic, we showed lower. (INAUDIBLE)
17 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Are you using a half
18 hour or an hour? Multiply those numbers then.
19 MR. DURFEE: Excuse me. Can I just ask
20 what would be considered the times -- whomever it
21 was who prepared this, would those be considered
22 high-traffic times in relation to yours?
23 MR. CRONAN: The two I talked about, one
24 was 7:10 to 7:40 in the morning, so that was close

173
1 to the same time we utilized, the peak hours.

2 The afternoon was 2:15 - 3:20, so that was a
3 little bit earlier than our peak hour. Our peak
4 hour was later in the afternoon but so it's close.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: These are points that
6 we can deliberate when we get into the
7 deliberations we will question the validity of and
8 we will go from -- and go from that. Sorry. I
9 didn't realize that I was not speaking into the
10 microphone.
11 MR. SHEKARCHI: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman,
12 is it possible to get a copy of that document?
13 MR. RUGGIERO: Yes.
14 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Yes, absolutely.
15 MR. SHEKARCHI: And was it signed by
16 anybody? I mean, who did it? Is there any kind
17 of --
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: It is available for
20 you and --
22 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'm not talking about Mr.
23 Cronan's report.
24 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: No.

174
1 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'm talking about the

2 document that the young lady said that some veteran
3 did.
4 MR. RUGGIERO: That was entered as an
5 exhibit.
6 MR. SHEKARCHI: Do you have the number?
7 MR. RUGGIERO: Yes. It will be available
8 --
9 MS. MCDERMOTT: Tomorrow.
10 MR. RUGGIERO: -- tomorrow it will be
11 available.
12 MR. MCDERMOTT: And one last question.
13 Did anybody put their name on it?
14 MR. RUGGIERO: Yes, it was signed.
15 MR. SHEKARCHI: An engineer or --
17 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Santo...
18 MR. SHEKARCHI: A veteran, okay.
19 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: There is a name on it.
20 MR. RUGGIERO: That's A-10.
22 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Ma'am, you have
23 already had your chance. It's late. Everybody is
24 tired.

175
1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I understand that but I

2 would just like to say one thing. I would like you
3 to come down on High Street. I live across the
4 street of a duplex house. One side has two-
5 bedroom apartments and the other side has
6 two-bedroom apartments. There's 17 people living
7 in that house. And that's 17 people -- they have
8 probably five cars on each side. So that's 10
9 extra cars that these people -- so you have to take
10 account into traffic what the community also
11 already has.
12 So we have a lot of rentals in here and there
13 are a lot of cars parking on the street. And I
14 just would like you to understand that in such a
15 tight community, we have a lot of people living in
16 small quarters and maximizing the use of it.
17 Seventeen people is a lot the people. If I
18 were to go up the street, I could bet you any money
19 there are probably -- would be similar if not more
20 people living in one building, one house that's
21 been turned into a duplex.
22 So you think 193 people are only going to have
23 one and two cars, you're mistaken. Most people
24 have more than one car and they go to work and they

176
1 share or whatever -- it's really going to be a

2 horrendous situation.
3 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We --
4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And the traffic, you need to
5 consider the side roads. I live on High Street.
6 I've almost been hit on that street. Cars cut
7 through to avoid that traffic stop. They cut
8 through to avoid the --
9 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We --
10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- on both sides.
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We realize that. That
12 has already been acknowledged. We are very much
13 aware of it.
14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: But not in the traffic
15 expert's reports.
16 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: But it's been noted in
17 all of the communications which we are taking into
18 consideration, please understand that.
19 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I hope so.
20 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Sir, you had requested
21 --
22 MR. FERRARA: Vinny Ferrara, 54 Silk Lane.
23 THE COURT REPORTER: Ferrara?
24 MR. FERRARA: Yes.

177
1 THE COURT REPORTER: Please spell your

2 last name.
3 MR. FERRARA: F-E-R-R-A-R-A, 54 Silk Lane.
5 MR. FERRARA: I am -- I've been in this
6 town for about five years. I rebuilt a house in
7 the village that burned down. I went through all
8 of the stops, all of the processes, invested a lot
9 of money, a lot of time.
10 I'm trying to be pro-active in the community
11 and do some better things and trying to fix some of
12 the shortcomings that have haunted this town for a
13 long time.
14 I don't think there is a single person in this
15 room that's going to disagree with anybody that
16 this Mill is the eyesore of this village and
17 something needs to be done with it.
18 Development -- this is the first meeting I've
19 been to. I've been watching it unfold on social
20 media and I like talking around town. I drive
21 around on my motorcycle or my car and I drive
22 around and I talk to people. I get the feel for
23 them. That's who's paying the taxes in this town.
24 That's the people busting their chops every day to

178
1 live out here, myself included.

2 We invested everything we owned in rebuilding
3 our house in the hopes that my grandchildren will
4 be in the same yard that my son is playing in right
5 now.
6 The weight -- the amount of money that it's
7 going to cost the town to sustain a development
8 like this isn't something that we can just make
9 happen overnight. Who's paying for it? Who's
10 going to pay for the influx into the school system?
11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Us.
12 MR. FERRARA: No. I don't want to be --
13 I'm trying to be very levelheaded. I understand
14 there is a lot of animosity and -- everybody is
15 upset. But I don't think that there's a single
16 person that doesn't see that there needs to be a
17 solution and maybe this isn't the correct one but
18 maybe some community involvement -- maybe something
19 where we can all work together, come to an
20 agreement on something that meets the developer's
21 wishes and returns his investment because frankly
22 it's going to cost a lot of the money to make this
23 place look like as it should, to do justice to this
24 town.

179
1 And I don't think there's anybody that's going

2 to disagree with that. And that -- whoever does
3 put that money up, is not just -- it is business.
4 Business is business. But there's a town to keep
5 in mind with a lot of good, hard-working people.
7 MR. FARRARA: So I ask that you, the
8 Zoning Board, please keep that in mind and morally
9 think about the correct decision versus the wrong
10 decision and the people that elected -- that put
11 every single one of you on that stand... We
12 trusted in them -- and personally, I feel that that
13 was some of the shortcoming of this town. You guys
14 have an opportunity to make right by it and fix it.
15 Because, guess what, I went before the Hope
16 Village Overlay Committee before I could build my
17 house and I had to change some things in my
18 blueprints that didn't fit the town and I had no
19 problem with it because I love this town.
20 (APPLAUSE)
21 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. Mr.
22 Shekarchi, can we get a copy of that original
23 traffic study?
24 MR. SHEKARCHI: Certainly.

180
1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Because that was not

2 provided at this point.
3 MR. SHEKARCHI: I'll be more than happy
4 to.
5 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Thank you. At this
6 point, I would like closing comments from the
7 attorneys.
8 Attorney Harsch, do you have comments that you
9 would like to make?
10 MR. HARSCH: We are going to submit
11 written closing arguments by agreement between
12 attorneys.
13 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: The agreement -- the
14 attorneys have -- are going to be submiting written
15 documents to the Zoning Board in terms of their own
16 respective closing comments before -- I've offered
17 -- are you and Attorney Shekarchi all set with
18 that?
19 MR. SHEKARCHI: October 10th.
20 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: At this point, what we
21 are doing, we are will go to the next meeting,
22 which is October 17th, we will be in deliberations
23 at that point. You -- we will not hear any public
24 comment. What we will hear at that point is the

181
1 discussion between the Zoning Board Members and we

2 will do our best to make sure that we are taking
3 into consideration every bit of information that
4 has gone between the experts and you as the expert
5 residents of your community. These are very
6 important considerations and we know that it's
7 important to you as it is to us.
8 I thank everybody for your time and I'm going
9 to ask for a motion.
10 MR. RUGGIERO: The closing arguments, you
11 have to state when you want them due.
12 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: These closing memos I
13 want to make sure that, on the record, that they
14 will be to the Zoning Board by the 10th of October,
15 correct?
16 MR. HARSCH: That's correct.
17 MR. SHEKARCHI: Yes, sir.
18 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Okay. I'm going to
19 ask for a closing --
20 MR. DURFEE: I move that we adjourn this
21 meeting until October 17th at 7:00 when we will
22 reconvene --
23 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: And close the record.
24 MR. RUGGIERO: And close the record for

182
1 public comment.
2 MR. DURFEE: -- and close the record for
3 public comment.
4 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: I have a motion. Do
5 we have a second?
6 MR. RAMBONE: Second.
7 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Motion made and
8 seconded. All those in favor signify by saying
9 aye.
10 (BOARD RESPONDS)
11 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: Any opposed, none.
12 MS. MCDERMOTT: I motion that we get a new
13 PA system for the next meeting.
14 (HEARING ADJOURNED AT 10:57 P.M.)
15
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24

Official Transcript Sept 27, 2017 Zoning Board Hearing - Case #1200 - Hope Mill

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1

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

1 (HEARING COMMENCED AT 7:17 P.M.)

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1 I'm going to describe in a moment, which is why we

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1 to voice something that was contrary to what was

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

1 presented. We will not be repeating all of that

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1 I'd also like -- at the table is Peter

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1 It is the Receiver's position that the special

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1 CHAIRMAN CHARLAND: We have also received

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

1 trying to do. Once these presentations are done, I

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1 Robert and Marisa Brown also submitted letters. We

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1 committee for allowing me to go on record this

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1 and the ones that were eligible to actually vote;

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1 less than the required number of parking spaces

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1 The Resolution shall take effect immediately

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1 buildings of similar appearance to the other

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1 90,000 in the 2010 census.

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1 That was done by Crossman Engineering and Mr.

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1 entitled Parking Summary from DiPrete Engineering.

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1 trips in the afternoon peak hours. And when I say

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1 for the stop conditions, it will increase but it

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1 January 1, 2013 to November 22, 2016. This is

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1 1.77 is quite a bit higher.

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1 northbound, 646 southbound with a total of 1056

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

1 One thing that could be done: Northbound is

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

1 1.77 spaces per unit, which we feel is acceptable.

C. Dion Court Reporting (401) 397-6139

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1 MR. CRONAN: Yes, based on our studies,

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1 questions of the Board?

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1 far as traffic count?

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1 MR. COSTAKOS: So that's why that didn't

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1 cars and clear and more would come up.

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1 numbers and on the westbound approach it says 61

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1 MR. CRONAN: The number on the side road,