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Page 1 of2 - 030720 - Kelly -Jackson - BBC24 -1163 -ord8231

TRANSCRIPT

Programme(s) BBC News 24

Date 8 time Sunday, 200 July 2003 1220
Subject /interviewee Death of Dr David Kelly - Robert Jackson
Prepared by: Eileen Eldridge
Contact numbers 020 7270 1080 - Pager 07659 137 572 - 24hrs, every day

Clarence Mitchell: Welljoining me is the, the MP for Wantage, Robert Jackson, who has consistently criticised the
BBC's involvement in this whole saga Mr Jackson can I ask your reaction first of all You have consistently as 1 say
said that the BBC has been in the wrong on this. Does the BBC's confirmation ofDr Kelly's role as the primary
source change your views in any shape or form?
Robert Jackson: It doesn't in any way. I mean it simply confirms what I've been saying If they had made this
statement while Dr Kelly was still alive as they were repeatedly asked to do, to rule him out as being the source for
Andrew Gilllgan's story, then I believe that Dr Kelly would still be alive.
It was the ambiguity around the question of whether he was or not the main source of this very serious allegation
which I think made a material part in, in his decision to kill himself and I think that the BBC have a considerable
measure of responsibility for this. This statement is coming very late in the day and it's coming after the death of my
constituent Dr Kelly
CM: But two basic points from that . The BBC had a duty of confidentiality to the man, he had spoken unofficially to
the BBC and deserved confidentiality under those circumstances, and the statement was delayed until now because
the BBC was anxious to lessen any furtherpain forhis family.
RJ: I think it's quite straight forward. The question of David Kelly before he died the, they were asked in the BBC to
rule out him as the source, not to name their source, but to rule him out. He had already volunteered that he had
spoken to Gdligan . There was no question of getting in to trouble by confirming or denying that he was or was not
the main source . The BBC refused to do that and I think that left open the question which must have preyed on Dr
Kelly's mind as to whether or not he was the main source of an allegation that the Government was lying to the
country in the run up to a war A very, very serious allegation.
CM: You say the BBC bears a large responsibility for this so what are you saying? Are you expecting resignations9
RJ: Yes. I think it has to go right to the top. The BBC Governors met on a Sunday afternoon before the Foreign
Affairs Committee had made its report due the following day. The BBC Governors met and they upheld Dr, Mr
Gilligan's story on the basis that they had been told by their Chairman that it was a senior intelligence officer, even
though he was the only source they believed it was right to, to, to proceed on that basis.
Now clearly either the BBC Governors were told that Dr Kelly was the source and they should have been told that he
was not a senior intelligence officer, or they were not told that he was not a senior intelligence officer. And they must
have been told this by their Chairman who would have known Dr Kelly's identity .
So I think the Chairman of the BBC Governors should resign and I think there are question marks over Greg Dyke,
over the news people and certainly over Mr Gdllgan who clearly dressed up what was said to him by Dr Kelly.
CM : But the, the Kelly family themselves in their statement yesterday said that they felt everyone involved in this
should reflect long and hard on their involvement and that applies just as much to the Ministry ofDefence, to
Downing Street, to, to the otherprinciple players in this whole saga.

GICS Media Monitoring Unit

Room B18, Cabinet Office, 70 Whitehall, London SW1A 2AS
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Page 2 of 2 - 030720 - Kelly -Jackson - BBC24 -1163 -ord8231

RJ : I have no doubt that they are reflecting hard about the situation. I believe the BBC should reflect hard, but we
will see what the judge has to say about the circumstances leading up to this But the fact of the matter is that the
BBC published a story which we now know was highly embroidered.
I believe Dr Kelly's account of his conversation with Andrew Gilligan I will not accept any suggestion now made,
made in the, after Dr Kelly is dead and is no longer able to speak for himself, I will not accept any suggestion that he
said more to Andrew Gilligan than he told the Foreign Affairs Committee that he'd said .
I believe that the BBC has knowingly for some weeks been standing by a story that it knew was wrong, a very, very
grave allegation against the Government and it has now led to a death And I believe that the BBC has a very large
measure of responsibility here .
CM: Let me just take issue with, with one point there. The BBC has consistently stood by ii saying it believed its
accuracy and that it was right to place d in the public domain at that time Richard Sambrook, the DirectorofNews,
has said in this statement that it, the BBC believes it accurately interpreted and reported the factual information that
Dr Kelly gave to Andrew Gilligan.
If we believe it to be accurate where is the harm is reporting it on that basis?
RJ: Well we now have Andrew Gilligan having told the Committee, Foreign Affairs Committee last week that he drew
inferences from what was said to him by Dr Kelly. We have Dr Kelly saying that he did not say many of the things
that were said in Andrew Gilligan's story. We now know that Andrew Gilligan had Dr Kelly as his sole source for the
story And Dr Gilly, and we have Gilligan saying that ft was an inference that he drew.
I think the fact of the matter is that Gilligan under pressure from his news colleagues for a scoop for an exclusive
story, under pressure from the wider BBC establishment and its general vendetta against the Government on the
question of the war against Iraq, I believe that he sexed up the whole story and that this created the situation which
led to the death of my constituent.
CM: Well clearly Andrew Gilligan would dispute virtually everything you've, you've just said and the BBC would also
dispute that it's been running a vendetta against the Government concerning its war coverage. What what will you
be doing now? What, you've been wrtting to Greg Dyke on war coverage generally, what action willyou be taking
now?
RJ: I'm going to write to the Chairman of the Governors and suggest that he resign his position because I believe he
must have materially misled his Governors.
CM: Robert Jackson, MP for Wantage, many thanks for that
End