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http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/10/more-groans-for-shabir-ally.html
6 captures
3 Apr 2016 - 25 Jun 2018
ABOUT
My name is Keith Thompson. I
am a Christian apologist and
documentary film maker. I
write for www.Answering-
Islam.org and am the owner of
Reformed Apologetics
Ministries. I can be reached at
keithtruth2010@hotmail.com
Home Page
My DOCUMENTARY FILMS
- Black Hebrew Israelites
Debunked
- Darwinism's Downfall
- Sword and the Crescent
- Atheists Don't Exist
- Purgatory Debunked
- Reformed Answers on the
Roman Corruption of
Christianity
- Word of Faith Teachers:
Origins & Errors of Their
Teaching
- Joel Osteen: Origins and
Errors of his Teaching
- Historical Case for Paul's
Apostleship: Critique of
Muslim Arguments
VIDEO TEACHINGS
- An Historical Case for
Christ's Resurrection
- Adolf Hitler was not a
Christian
- Refuting the Lie John Invented
Sayings of Jesus
- Shabir Ally & Raymond
Brown’s Redaction Criticism of
John
- Answering Muslims: Is Jesus
a Son Among Tons?
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
“Passion Contradictions”
Muslims Parrot
- How Salvation Works: Plain
and Simple
- Catholic Idol Worshiper's Big
Justification Lie
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?:
Answering Muslims
- Old Testament Genocide?:
Answering "Atheists"
- The Bible and Slavery:
Answering "Atheists"
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
"CultofDusty"
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Reformed Apologetics Ministries: MORE GROANS FOR SHABIR ALLY
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Thursday, October 1, 2015
MORE GROANS FOR SHABIR ALLY
By Sam Shamoun
Shabir Ally could provide no greater proof of his deceptive and dishonest handling of
sources than what he did to my own words during the Q&A section of his last debate with
my colleague David Wood. After referring to the following hadiths,
Chapter 8: THROWING OF NON-BELIEVERS IN HELL-FIRE FOR BELIEVERS  AS DIVINE GRACE
AND MERCY 
Abu Musa' reported that Allah's Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection
Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your RESCUE from
Hell-Fire. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6665; *) 
Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle said:  No Muslim
would die but Allah would admit IN HIS STEAD a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd
al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father
had narrated that to him from Allah's Messenger. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037,
Number 6666; *) 
Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger as saying: There would come people amongst the
Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would
FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (As far as
I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to
'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from
Allah's Apostle? I said: Yes. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668; *) 
Superiority of the believers in the Oneness of Allah and the punishment of the Jews and
Christians 
8) Narrated Abu Musa: Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection,
my  Ummah  (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise
without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy
account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs
heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about
them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say:
Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the
humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy. 
(This Hadith IS SOUND and mentioned in Mustadrak of Hakim). (110 Hadith Qudsi (Sacred
Hadith), translated by Syed Masood-ul-Hasan, revision and commentaries by Ibrahim m.
Kunna [Darussalam Publishers and Distributors], pp. 19-20; capital and underline emphasis
ours)
I asked Ally whether he is able to reconcile the justice of THIS perverted concept of
substitutionary atonement without throwing his sources under the bus. Ally did as I predicted,
since he ended up calling into question the veracity of Sahih Muslim, despite the fact that
Islam’s greatest scholars have claimed this to be a collection of narrations whose
authenticity have been rigorously authenticated. In fact, some of the Muslim scholars have
even gone as far as to argue that in some respect Sahih Muslim is actually superior to the
hadith collection of Sahih al-Bukhari!(1)
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- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
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6 captures
“Thunderf00t”
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
3 Apr 2016 - 25 Jun 2018
"AronRa"
- 20 Reasons to Never Join
Islam
- The Bible Teaches Original
Sin
- Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s
“Christian Militancy” Teaching
Refuted
- Proof Virgin Mary is not the
Ark of the Covenant
-Brief Explanation of Calvinism
- Jeffrey Daugherty's "Apostle
Paul Antichrist" Theory
Debunked
- Refutation of Heretic Jesse
Morrell's Documentary
"Beyond Augustine" part 1, 2
- Myth of Imputed
Righteousness of Christ?
Answering Heretic Jesse
Morrell
- A Biblical Case for
Determinism: God's
sovereignty over all (Chris
Gautreau)
- Defending Reformed View of
John 6 - Refuting Heretic
Kerrigan Skelly
- Was Judas Once a Saved True
Believer? - Refuting Heretic
Kerrigan Skelly
- Theory on the Origins of
Papal Infallibility
-Answers to Theological
Questions Posed by YouTube
Subscribers - part 1, 2, 3
DEBATES & DISCUSSIONS
- Is Muhammad Predicted in
the Bible? (Keith Thompson vs.
Inamullah Mumtaz)
- Is Papal Primacy Primitive?
(Keith Thompson vs. Catholic
Minister)
- Is the Roman Catholic Papacy
Biblical and Historical? (Keith
Thompson vs. Roman Catholic)
- Papal Primacy and Canon
Debate (Keith Thompson vs.
Catholic)
- Catholic Apologist Admits he
can't Historically Prove Peter
was First Roman Bishop &
More (Keith Thompson vs.
Fidei Defensor SPQR)
- Is Justification by Faith
Alone? (Keith Thompson vs.
Catholic Peter Dimond)
- Is Paul a True Apostle? (Keith
Thompson vs. Muslim Nadir
Ahmed)
- Does the Immaculate
Conception Contradict
Scripture and History? (Keith
Thompson vs. Richard a Roman
Catholic)
-Infant Baptism Debate: Chris
Gautreau vs. Zachary Kueker
(written debate)
- Is God Sovereign Over All?
(Chris Gautreau vs.
FaithandPractice)
- Is Christianity a Religion of
Peace? (Keith Thompson vs.
Muslim Sami Zaatari)
- Discussion with two Catholics
on Interpreting Scripture
- Is Free Will Biblical? (Keith
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Reformed Apologetics Ministries: MORE GROANS FOR SHABIR ALLY
“… Although Sahih al-Bukhari is the most reliable collectionGoof MAR
APR however,
Ahadith, JUN Sahih
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Muslim has certain aspects of superiority. Imam Muslim adhered strictly to most of the f 🐦
principles of the Science of Hadith which were somehow at some 2016places ignored ▾
2018 2019 byAbout
histhis capture
teacher Imam Bukhari. Imam Muslim accepted for his collection only such Ahadith which
had been transmitted with an unbroken chain of reliable narrators, free from all defects
and were in perfect harmony with the narrations of other narrators. He has recorded only
those ahadith which were transmitted at least by two different transmitters from two
different Companions. Imam Bukhari has sometimes used the Kunyah (surname) of the
narrators and sometimes their names. Imam Muslim avoided this confusion. Imam Muslim is
also particular in pointing out the slightest difference in the text of the narrations. Imam
Bukhari has fragmented most of the Ahadith and presented the portions under different
chapters, while Imam Muslim presented them as a whole narration. So, the works of both
Imams provide different approaches for the scholars and readers of Ahadith.” (The
Translation of the Meanings of Summarized Sahih Muslim, Publisher’s Note, Volume 1, p. ii;
bold emphasis ours)
And:
“Imam Muslim compiled many books and treatises on Hadith, the most important of his
works is the compilation of the Hadith collection Al-Jami‘ As-Sahih, which is famous by the
name of Sahih Muslim. Some scholars of Hadith opine that in some respects IT IS THE BEST
AND MOST AUTHENTIC COLLECTION of Ahadith. Imam Muslim laboriously collected 300,000
Ahadith, but after critical study, he selected only 4,000 Ahadith for this collection…
“Many students learned the Science of Hadith from Imam Muslim. Those who became
famous and occupied a prominent position are: Abu Hatim Razi, Musa bin Harun, Ahmad
bin Salamah, Abu ‘Isa Tirmidhi, Abu Bakr bin Khuzaimah, Abu ‘Awanah and Hafiz Dhahbi.”
(Ibid., p. v; bold and capital emphasis ours).
This means that these traditions thoroughly met Imam Muslim’s stringent criteria of authenticity,
which also indicates that this renowned hadith scholar was fully convinced that these were
actual statements uttered by Muhammad. Therefore, Ally is going to have to do a lot more than
to simply brush aside these traditions on the grounds that they somehow contradict the Quran,
since the fact still remains that according to the very strict criteria employed by Imam Muslim
they are genuine sayings of the historical Muhammad (that is, as far as Islamic historiography and
hadith criticism are concerned). As such, these narrations are still binding upon Sunni Muslims
which Ally claims to be. 
He then proceeded to go on a tirade against the Christian concept of atonement, which is
nothing more than a red herring on his part. To make matters worse, he even had the
audacity to twist my own words. Note what he said:
"And where is the justice in any system of justice? YOU YOURSELF SAID ITS KIND OF A
PERVERTED JUSTICE IF ONE PERSON SUFFERS IN THE PLACE OF ANOTHER."
Did you just catch what he did? He falsely accused me of saying that it is a perversion of
justice for one person to suffer in the place of another, WHEN THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF
WHAT I SAID, since I began my question my plainly telling Ally that the Quran NOWHERE
denies the possibility of a person bearing the sins of another, but rather denies that a sinful
person who is burdened with his own sins is able to do so. I then said that this then opens the
door for Jesus doing so since he is without sin, and therefore without any burdens.
It is clear that my words were directed to Muhammad's travesty of the doctrine of
atonement, NOT TO THE CONCEPT OF ATONEMENT IN GENERAL. As anyone hearing the
exchange can personally verify, I was condemning Muhammad's teaching that Allah would
torture Jews and Christians in hell as a ransom for all the wickedness and sins committed by
Muslims as a perversion, since this means that Allah is punishing Jews and Christians for their
own sins AND THE SINS OF MUHAMMADANS! Now that is truly despicable and perverted!
In fact, even a convert to Islam named Paul Williams could see that Ally deliberately twisted
my words since he left the following comments to a youtube video produced by another
shameless deceiver name YahyaSnow where he claims that I ended up embarrassing myself
since Ally took my own words and turned them against me:
 Pcc B 19 hours ago
that's not quite fair on Sam. When he refers to 'perverted concept of substitutionary
atonement' HE IS SPEAKING OF THE ISLAMIC REJECTION OF IT - not his own view. I don't
think Sam misspoke here (capital emphasis ours)
In light of the foregoing, can there be any doubt left that Ally is indeed a liar and deceiver
who has no shame in twisting and perverting the statements of scholars and apologists in
order to score cheap debate points? What makes this rather unfortunate for Ally is that he
thinks he can get away with his gross perversion and misquotation of people, but not any
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2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: MORE GROANS FOR SHABIR ALLY
Thompson vs. Charismatic longer since we will continue
to call him out on any and all lies and
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/10/more-groans-for-shabir-ally.html Go deliberate manhandling
MAR APR JUN
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6 captures
Arminian)
- Is Original Sin Biblical?
of any source he references anytime he opens his mouth. 23 f 🐦
3 Apr 2016 - 25 Jun 2018 2016 2018 2019 ▾ About this capture
(Keith Thompson vs. Two
So Ally, you have been forewarned!
Pelagians)
- Does the New Testament
Teach the Deity of Jesus? Endnotes
(Keith Thompson vs. Yuratchka
the Arian) (1) To better appreciate this comparison with Sahih Al-Bukhari, note what the English
- Does Scripture Teach translator states concerning this great collection:
Predestination? (Keith
Thompson vs. Arminian - very It has been UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that Imam Bukhari's work is the most authentic of all the
short) other works in Hadith literature PUT TOGETHER. The authenticity of Al-Bukhari's work is such
that the religious learned scholars of Islam said concerning him: "The most authentic book
ARTICLES after the Book of Allah (i.e., Al-Qur'an) is Sahih Al-Bukhari."… Before he recorded each
Islam Hadith he would make ablution and offer two Rak’at prayer and supplicate his Lord
(Allah). Many religious scholars of Islam tried to find fault in the great remarkable
- A Definitive Look at the collection- Sahih Al-Bukhari, BUT WITHOUT SUCCESS. It is for this reason, they UNANIMOUSLY
James White Yasir Qadhi AGREED that the most authentic book after the Book of Allah IS Sahih Al-Bukhari.
Controversy (Translation of the Meanings of Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, translated by Dr.
- The Reliability of the Gospel Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Formerly Director, University Hospital, Islamic University, Al-
of John Madina Al-Munawwara (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), [Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors,
- Comprehensive Case Jesus Riyadh-Saudi Arabia, July, 1997], Volume 1, pp. 18-19; bold and capital emphasis ours) 
Died by Crucifixion
- Are the Gospels too late and
Note that these are the very sources that Ally has no qualms throwing under the bus
Unreliable?
- Original Sources the Koran whenever they prove too damaging to his position. This is precisely why I accused Ally of
Stole its Stories from preaching Hislam, e.g., his version of Islam, as opposed to actual Islam, since he presents an
- The Corruption of the Koran: Islam that doesn’t exist in reality and which isn’t anchored in its primary sources. Rather Ally’s
Evidence and New Research Hislam only exists in his own imagination and wishful thinking.
- Muhammad Taught and
Practiced Offensive Jihad
Posted by Keith Thompson at 1:36 PM
- Are Muhammad and Islam
Predicted in the Bible?
- Errors in the Koran and
Ahadith 1 comment:
- Evidence Muhammad was
Demon Possessed ‫ ﻣﻠﺔ إﺑﺮاھﯿﻢ ﺣﻨﯿﻔﺎ‬October 14, 2015 at 9:59 AM
- Jesus as God Before Paul
I have a question, you claimed that the qur'an says no bearer of burden can bear the burden of someone else, and I
- Some Absurd and Silly
agree. Then, you site a hadith which states that christians and jews (who are bearers of burden) will bear the
Teachings of Muhammad
burdens of muslims. But I thought the qur'an said no bearer of burden can bear the burden of another? There is
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
also a verse in the qur'an. 70:11-15~
“Passion Contradictions”
They will be shown each other. The criminal will wish that he could be ransomed from the punishment of that
Muslims Parrot
Day by his children
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?:
And his wife and his brother
Answering Muslims
And his nearest kindred who shelter him
- 20 Reasons to Never Join
And whoever is on earth entirely [so] then it could save him.
Islam
No! Indeed, it is the Flame [of Hell],
- Is Christianity a Religion of
Peace?
What this passage is saying is that there will be sinners on that day who will ask for this ransom, but it will be
- Who Wrote the Gospels?
rejected. I would like a clarification.
Internal and External
Arguments for Traditional Reply
Authorship
- Answering Sami Zaatari on
the Pharisaic Accusation that
Christ Claimed Deity
- A Case for the Deity of Christ
in Light of Muslim Objections
- The Historical Case for Paul's
Apostleship: And a Critique of
Muslim Arguments
- Muhammad's Condition in
Light of the Biblical
Description of Demonic
Possession
- Christ’s Deity in Light of not
Knowing the Day & Hour of
His Return
- Daniel 7:13-14 and Christ’s
Deity: Answering Ibn Anwar’s Newer Post Home Older Post
Eisegesis
- The Historicity of the Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
Appearance to the 500 in 1
Corinthians 15:6
- Muslim Misuse of Hebrews
5:7: Does This Verse Teach
Jesus Never Died?
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of
Anachronistic Error: An
Exegetical Examination of

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Mark 2:26
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/10/more-groans-for-shabir-ally.html Go MAR APR JUN 👤 ⍰❎
6 captures
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of 23 f 🐦
Anachronistic Error: An
3 Apr 2016 - 25 Jun 2018 2016 2018 2019 ▾ About this capture
Exegetical Examination of
Mark 2:26, Part 2
- Jesus as Divine Judge: A
Response to the Muhammedan
Site “Do Not Say Trinity”
- Bart Ehrman: A Hero For
Islam?
- Is Asking “Where did Jesus
say, ‘I am God’” a Good
Argument?
- Revisiting “Where Did Jesus
Say ‘I am God’" A Response to
the Muhammedan Site “Do Not
Say Trinity"
- Contra Paul Williams on the
Death Penalty for Apostasy &
Christianity
- Heaven vs. Jannah: Assessing
the Dilemma
- Does Muhammad Pass the 1
John 4 Prophethood Test?
- Historical and Biblical Basis
for the Trinity
- Five Reasons Why Jesus is
Not Merely a Prophet
- Answering “Jesus isn’t God
because God doesn’t change”

Catholicism

- Absence of Papal Views

Among the Earliest Christians
- The Assumption of Mary is
Unbiblical and Ahistorical
- Justification is by Faith
Alone: Issues and Evidence
- Did Roman Catholicism Give
Protestants the Bible?
- Are Roman Catholics Saved?
- Refutation of Papal
Infallibility
- Biblical Evidence Against
Peter being Pope
- Does Matthew 16 Teach Peter
was the Pope?
- Do John 21:15-17 and Luke
22:31-32 prove Peter was
Pope?
- Biblical Evidence for Sola
Scriptura
- Refuting Rome's Biblical Case
for Extrabiblical Tradition
- The Early Church Fathers
Taught Sola Scriptura
- The Bible does not teach
Mary's Immaculate Conception
- Mary is not the Ark and
Tabernacle
- The Early Church did not
Believe Rome’s Doctrine of the
Immaculate Conception of
Mary
-Mary is not Co-redemptrix,
Mediatrix of all Graces, and
Advocate
- Some of Roman Catholicism's
worst Atrocities and
Abominations of History
- Baptismal Regeneration &
Justification are False
- Refuting the Catholic
Priesthood and Penance
- Proof the Roman Catholic
Mass is unbiblical and anti-
Christian
- Historical Examination of
Roman Catholic Eucharist
Theology
- Biblical and Historical

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2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: MORE GROANS FOR SHABIR ALLY
Refutation of Purgatory
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/10/more-groans-for-shabir-ally.html Go MAR APR JUN 👤 ⍰❎
6 captures
- Refutation of Inclusivism: 23 f 🐦
Non-Christians can not be
3 Apr 2016 - 25 Jun 2018 2016 2018 2019 ▾ About this capture
saved by works
- “Works” and “Works of the
Law” in Paul: Interacting with
Modern Catholic Reliance on
New Perspectivism
-Peter Dimond’s Not-So-
Stunning Acts 15 Video
-Peter Dimond LIED about
dikaiosune - Plus Debate
Challenge
- Responding to
catholicapologetics.info’s
“Some Tough Questions for
Protestants”
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 1
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 2
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 3
- Appendix: Addressing Some
Arguments in Support of the
Apocrypha

Other

- Did the NT Use Eyewitness

Sources for its Information
about Jesus?
- Are Christians Under the Law
of Moses?
- Hitler's Darwinian Motive for
Mass Murder
- An Historical Case for
Christ's Resurrection
- The Bible and Slavery:
Answering “Atheists”
- Failure of False Religions to
Account for Human Experience
-Youtube Pelagian Sinless
Perfection Cult Redefines Sin
-Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s
“Christian Militancy” Teaching
Refuted
- The Bible Teaches Original
Sin
- Jeffrey Daugherty’s “Apostle
Paul Antichrist” Theory
Debunked
- Jesus' Imputed Righteousness:
An Exegetical Case
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell’s
Documentary “Beyond
Augustine”
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell's
Documentary "Beyond
Augustine" Part 2

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