EUGAD : European Citizens working for the global development agenda

EUGAD is one of the actions that implement the European Commission Programme of Public awareness and education
for development in Europe
EuropeAid Contract: DCI-NSA ED/2008 153-791
Programme reference: EuropeAid/126341/C/ACT/Multi

For more information see at the bottom of this article

INTERVIEW to VANDANA SHIVA

Ecofeminist, winner of the Alternative Nobel Prize

for „placing women and ecology at the heart of modern development discourse‟

THE EARTH IS FEMALE

by Wilma Massucco

Vandana Shiva (born in 1952, India) is a physicist, philosopher,

environmental activist, eco feminist, author of several books and of over
300 papers in leading scientific and technical journals.

In 1993 she received the Right Livelihood Award (also known as the
'Alternative Nobel Prize') for placing women and ecology at the heart of
modern development discourse.

Other awards she has received include the Global 500 Award of the
United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in 1993, and the Earth
Day International Award of the United Nations (UN) for her dedicated
commitment to the preservation of the planet as demonstrated by her
actions, leadership and by setting an example for the rest of the world.

She plays a major role in the global Ecofeminist movement, where she
suggests that a more sustainable and productive approach to agriculture
can be achieved through reinstating a system of farming in India that is
more centered around engaging women.

She's founder of Navdanya, a movement for biodiversity conservation

and farmers' rights.

Introduction to the interview

Vandana Shiva , eco feminist, winner of the Alternative Nobel Prize for placing women and ecology at the heart of
modern development discourse, advocates against the prevalent "patriarchal logic of exclusion", claiming that a woman-
focused system would change the current system in an extremely positive manner.
She says: "Usually women are not in the main stream of society (as the men), and that's the reason why they can think
differently, and act differently. They act in defense of nature and in defense of society. Every day they have to clean the
house, to care the babies, .... and this gives them a training in persistence".

1
EUGAD : European Citizens working for the global development agenda
EUGAD is one of the actions that implement the European Commission Programme of Public awareness and education
for development in Europe
EuropeAid Contract: DCI-NSA ED/2008 153-791
Programme reference: EuropeAid/126341/C/ACT/Multi

Starting from this perspective, Vandana believes that conceiving the Earth as a female is very important, as it moves to
the concept of Earth as a Mother, i.e. not just as dead and inert and only as a source of raw materials to be exploited, but
as a generative force, to be respected and loved.
In this interview she also describes her ideas about International Cooperation and Development. She also gives some
examples, taken from her experience, about the way how common people can make a successful opposition to big
economic powers, like the Multinationals Companies, when they're damaging the environment and working for
exploitation of natural resources.

Key points of the interview

 Conceiving Earth as a female is important, as it moves to the concept of Earth as a Mother, i.e. not just as
dead and inert and only as a source of raw materials to be exploited but as generative force, to be respected
and loved. The IPCC report, which is the inter-government panel on climate change, body of 2500 scientists,
predicted that if the current is continuing, by hundreds of years from now human beings will not be able to live
on this planet. As alternative to that perspective, she recommends - in strong opposition with the theories by
Jeffrey Sachs, see The End of poverty - we should return to earth, and to an agriculture not based on
mechanical production (which combined with falling prices and decline in farm credit pushed Indian farmers
into the debt trap - thousands of farmers committed suicide in India in the last two decades because of debt
they were unable to repay). She promotes manual labor, ecological farming and fair trade to ensure healthy,
diverse and safe food

 International Cooperation must be between equals – equal dignity, equal respect, equal partnership; then the
planning of what will be cooperation is made by both sides, and not be imposed. It should be an exchange
process, not one way but two ways. In order to promote such a kind of cooperation, it's essential the selection
of partners we agree to work with. They must be Partners who respect each other and who realize they have
much to contribute to each other (if not financially, in terms of visions, ideas, good practices).

 Development must be defined by the people for whom it is supposed to be, it cannot be defined by Washington
or by the politicians. It has to be defined by the community: if the community feels that letting the river flow is
development, then they let the river flow; if the community feels building a dam is good then they can build a
dam. But it shouldn’t be that they are told you have no rights to decide.

 What common people can do in order to support MDGs, specially when there is a big difference of power
among the actors, like it is for example the case of Water Multinationals companies working against the rights
of common people? For Vandana Shiva it's however possible to change the balance of power between those
actors, supposed people recognize they have the rights to decide, as it is written in the Constitution. She cites
the case history of Coca Cola, which tried to steal the water in a village in Keralaq (India), and was stopped
by the movement of only women, who sat at the gate of Coca Cola and, helped by Vandana, built a political
strategy and a legal strategy to push their protest to court and brought visibility to their struggle, till Coca
Cola was shut down. In the case of Delhi, World Bank was financing the water privatization of Delhi, and
Vandana organized a big coalition for water democracy to stop privatization, and they stopped it.

 Usually women are not in the main stream of society (as the men), and that's the reason why they can think
differently, and act differently. They act in defense of nature and in defense of society. Every day they have to
clean the house, to care the babies, …. and this gives them a training in persistence. Men are used to be
impatient.

INTERVIEW, WRITTEN INTEGRAL EDITION

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EUGAD : European Citizens working for the global development agenda
EUGAD is one of the actions that implement the European Commission Programme of Public awareness and education
for development in Europe
EuropeAid Contract: DCI-NSA ED/2008 153-791
Programme reference: EuropeAid/126341/C/ACT/Multi

THE EARTH IS FEMALE

Interview to VANDANA SHIVA

by Wilma Massucco

What do you mean when you say that “Earth is female”?

It basically means that she is the Mother, life for all beings, all species, including human beings

Is it important to see the Earth as Mother?

Yes, it is, as it is the only way we will recognize how much we received from her. Most of the time, when we think of
the Earth as dead and inert and just as a source of raw materials, we create illusions that money and welfare come from
Wall Street and factories. We forget that for every factory the first material is contributed by the earth. The second
reason why it‟s so important to see the Earth as mother is because nothing as mother has let to huge abuse. The abuse of
the earth is basically the ecological crisis. This ecological crisis is so severe that we could, as species, be putting
ourselves at risk of extinction. The IPCC report, which is the inter-government panel on climate change, body of 2500
scientists, predicted that if the current is continuing, by hundreds of years from now human beings will not be able to
live on this planet. And the third reason why we need to see the Earth as mother is because of this period of economic
crisis created by arrogant, patriarchal, capital system: I see an economy centered on capital as an economy centered on
patriarchy, which has given us all the multiple economic crisis we face. People loosing work, unemployment, the young
not seeing future for themselves … the only way to build hope is through the Earth.

You said the mechanical agriculture is poorer than the manual agriculture both as regards quality and quantity.
Supposing it’s expected to get a worse quality of food when using mechanical tools, how is it possible to expect a
lower amount of quantity, when you compare mechanical to manual production?
The quantity of food you derive from agriculture is lower in mechanical industrial system. What is higher is the single
commodity production. So, a person who has 350 acre of farm of pears only grows pears. On the way round, on that
same field of 350 acres you might have cows, pigs, cherry trees and peach trees, vegetables and tomatoes. In the 350
acre of mechanical farm you will have more pears, but more pears is not more food. It‟s more commodity to sell. But
you can‟t live on pears alone. You need your salads, you need your servers, you need everything else. So when you
reduce one area into growing only one thing, the other things you need get imported from somewhere else. So, it‟s not
more production of food.

A question about your critic to Jeffrey Sachs and his theory about the way how to come out from poverty
The first thing I critic to Jeffrey Sachs‟s ideas and vision is that he thinks people in agriculture are poor by definition.
For him more development is getting people out of agriculture. He says it very clearly that the slave factories in
Bangladesh that make cheap clothing are the first step, out of agriculture, and therefore we must tolerate that slavery,
because it‟s an escape from agriculture, as the agriculture is worth than slavery. The fact that the agriculture has become
unviable is because of the large economic context. You need to change that exploited context, that is not giving full
prices to the farmers. Don‟t continue an exploitation and then say: ”Get people out of agriculture”. Moreover, if people
aren‟t in agriculture we won‟t have food. So to propose the development means get people out of agriculture, that's
wrong. My book Return to the Earth is in the fact saying “Get more people back on the land”. Mr Jeffrey Sachs, you go
back on the land and you‟ll earn a few new things out of that. I get a lot of young people from America coming to study
with me. They want to go back to the land. So, it‟s not representing the Third World, it‟s representing the all countries.

What’s your idea about International Cooperation?

Cooperation, if it‟s cooperation, is a good way. Normally cooperation is used as a name for process of exploitation.
Cooperation must be between equals – equal dignity, equal respect, equal partnership; then the planning of what will be

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EUGAD : European Citizens working for the global development agenda
EUGAD is one of the actions that implement the European Commission Programme of Public awareness and education
for development in Europe
EuropeAid Contract: DCI-NSA ED/2008 153-791
Programme reference: EuropeAid/126341/C/ACT/Multi

cooperation is made by both sides, and not be imposed. Secondly, in authentic cooperation, real benefits go to the poor
part of the world. In exploited form, more resources than money are taken out from the poor.

Do you think it will be possible to change the relationship among partners in order to build what you call "the
right cooperation"? You said, for example, that, as a matter of fact, it is the South of the world that supports the
North. What did you mean?
I gave the figures. 50 billion dollars of money aid goes from the North to the South, but 500 billion dollars worth of
interest payment (when you give a loan, you get an interest). So, more money is made out of the Third World and also
lost incomes for the South in terms of cheap commodities. So unfact trading system will take from the South cotton,
that should be selling at 22 Rupies a kilo and buy at 11 Rupies a kilo. That addition of 11 Rupies is a transfer of finance
from the South to the North.

Is it possible to change this way of working together?

Yes, it is possible to change after all. I‟m involved in cooperation and we only deal with partners who respect us,
partners who realized that we have as much to contribute to them as they can contribute to us, except we don‟t give
financially, we give in terms of visions, ideas, practices. The work I have done for 21 years in Navdanya to build that
kind of agriculture that produces more food, is supported by citizens cooperation, and I think it is a very good example

In such a case, what was the contribution of the European Partners?

They supported us financially, so that we can work with communities, and we supported them politically

In which way?
I will spend the next five days helping raise funds for the groups that have supported us. So, it‟s not one way, it‟s two
ways. We also support them intellectually, we give them ideas.

What’s your concept of Development?

My concept of development is that it must be defined by the people for whom it is supposed to be, it cannot be defined
by Washington or by the politicians. It has to be defined by the community, and if the community feels that letting the
river flow is development, then they let the river flow. If the community feels building a dam is good then they can
build a dam, but it shouldn‟t be that they are told you have no rights to decide.

What about the balance between the power of the multinationals and the power of common people? Is it possible
to arrange the right balance when there is such a big difference of power among the actors?
Yes, if you recognize the rights of the local people. I‟ll give you a very simple example. In the Constitution which gives
the right to local communities to decide what they will do for development, they have the right to say no to a highway,
and they have total right. That right has been taken away by the power of the cooperation. So it‟s not the case that you
have development, you have destruction. So, in the area where there has been dam it‟s the area where we have the new
Maoism, a violent extreme movement, armed struggle.

But, as a matter of fact, what you described is what usually happens. See for example the Water Multinationals:
they simply go and take position on a river. What can we really do to opposite it, as a social movement?
I want to give you two examples in which I have been directly involved, where we have been successful. Telling the
Multinationals that the water belongs to the community you cannot lay your hands on it. The first has been Coca Cola,
which tried to steal the water in a village in Keralaq. The women said: “No" and I supported them and Coca Cola had to
share its dam.

How was it possible? In which way?

Women just sat at the gate of Coca Cola, and I helped them to build a political strategy, a legal strategy to push it to
court and brought visibility to their struggle to Coca Cola till it was shut down. In the case of Delhi, World Bank was
financing the privatization of Delhi, and I organized a big coalition for water democracy to stop privatization , and we

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EUGAD : European Citizens working for the global development agenda
EUGAD is one of the actions that implement the European Commission Programme of Public awareness and education
for development in Europe
EuropeAid Contract: DCI-NSA ED/2008 153-791
Programme reference: EuropeAid/126341/C/ACT/Multi

stopped it. People sat down, we prepared alternate plans, we showed how this only going to benefit the company, we
exposed the lives, we talked to the media, …

How long to win this struggle?

In the case of Delhi, two years.

So, not so much time. Thanks to women more than men?

Thanks to women more than men

Do you mean women are more successful than men?

No, I think basically that men are trapped inside the exploited structure. They don‟t know a world outside it.

And what about women?

For women it is different, because the women were left out. Because women are not in the main stream , they can think
differently, they can act differently. They act in defense of nature and in defense of society. You know, every day you
have to clean the house, to care the babies, and this gives you a training in persistence. The men are used to be
impatient.

What do you think in respect of India and China as the new Emerging Economies?
Suddenly in the last two decades China and India are referred to as Emerging Economies. I find that for both it is a very
strange phase because something as to emerge from something to something else, and it‟s never clarified. Emerging
also refers to something happening that wasn‟t the day before, as our society has getting built today, but those who call
them Emerging have been existing for 400 - 500 years, while we have existed for 10.000 years.

For more information see:

- Eugad website: http://www.eugad.eu/

- Interview to Vandana Shiva: http://www.eugad.eu/wiki/index.php?title=Shiva_Vandana_-_Interview

- Audio interview on Youtube:

Part 1 - THE EARTH IS FEMALE - Why is it important to conceive the Earth as a female? Suggestion for
environmental sustainability and critics to the theories by Jeffrey Sachs, see The End of poverty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhdjzH0D_Dk

Part 2 - OPINION ON INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION- Is it possible to change the relationship among

partners in order to build "the right cooperation"? Which kind of partners do you agree to work with?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Px-teKECM

Part 3 - DEVELOPMENT AND ROLE OF WOMEN in changing the balance of power between
Multinationals Companies and common people: example of good practices, successful case histories of
individuals fighting against water privatization http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgSb4_Dmkg0