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NAA: MT1274/1, 15/O15/176

Series number: MT1274/1

Control symbol: 15/O15/176
Barcode: 1188563
Number of pages: 14

Equipment 25 pounder short Australian recoil systems

File /Sxa/5' / ‘5RETA N 7TEMPORARILY, V4 O ,Signature AJQC,
MQQ/, ‘ (15 015 176),. @@¢H|_|I!& Llglgga smmcRECOI L‘. SYSTEMS -_25-PR_._ snongA new recuperator block the 25-pr. Short was produced in UK.The new design of block incorporated a modified buffer valve andout
off gear and l in 200 twist ofspline instead of 1 in 400.The object of the new design was to lessen shock onfiring.G/Staff stared a requirement for E2 complete blocks.frovision action was cancelled upon the cessation
ofhostilities.‘zj I ‘;7f;_, ,__, 1*(,“lJ » -7~4~ (:16:-7I'1—4//=7: M4W‘/yw» ~
1 ‘f|g ' ‘Q? W jg e c r e t g r y.- ’ "4-5..";i1'!.“:§"__ 1L.1 TELEFHO s - ,: v_, 1.,Csnrru 185‘ ‘:.\>..¢r:--.‘:7 ‘>1 MXY 44 \ ‘ BRA Q;_ ' D __ COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA. a\(V /3441?‘, 0’ ‘ ‘ / " DEPARTMENT OF
DEFENCE G0-ORBINAQGN. W5»7 ¥‘ Q l _ 1-_ Q4 MELBOILJRNE. s.c.1. 6 I7“It _ /4“mimommm for .The SeeretarQ1910 LR@;%@g9~ “"4 )/(7.5’-1 t"\iZzC)”;|F_ ' ‘ IDEPARTMEmSIr'i‘ OF THE ARMY. 1' 5 JUL
1945EQUIPMENTS 25 PR. SHORT (AUST.) RECOIL SYSTEM Reference is made to your memorandum Nb. B.55204 dat26th May, 1945, on the above subject.I2. This matter has now been considered by the
DefenceCommittee, which, in Minute No.227/1945 dated 19th June, 1945;‘ dorsed the Army requirement of 32 recuperator blocks for5 pr. Short (Aust.) Equipments, estimated to cost £26,500, as»an addition to the Army
Programme of Munitions Items compiled~as at 51/12/1944. -1 .”W”“t , »~ I31é%m " - i ' (F G Sheddon). ! , I <¥\_ . $35, If“ QFJ edi§
__?_ *1‘ T\4~ 4— —v.~v——-I.I\\II L.—___ (‘P‘i-— n, _ H7,~ ' \ 7 I;'|'i'\ PEDVIEHII4|.Q CTFHEE I \\ 2 V -4i ‘ ‘=2 xi X I-\ ' Y‘$5: ‘ Q if ?P§@L€x°;§'§>1'i °\i, 1\ (‘fl7 ' _ "*<W1u: 2I\IS\I6W' ~ .j - A ‘_ U TY 9¢I<II.-EJ'°" 41° £119
VIJH3 },x.o€1,e‘nnua 01, pqm.i1';::[~0na Ipawa cowbgjeq»~~———-'»~- F -bl-Y‘ aim!-4= (Fv-w14=') sdnzhwvlca‘ ¢w=rm:=¢q»+=<> 2&3! ese‘@0o‘ v-Hqomeq ppe VI-I31 :.edn.yLemen;: oz, 95 Locnbempcg, p:]'Oc]{Q.LQ1'
hr_ G°""IH=°@‘ Mwcw‘ I11 mwwe x°'ss.s\1"a¢2 qwsrvq I kg’ us“ rang,.~4-, ;__ _C.»- _- ' ’ V ~' VKLNEM-6*b\?¥‘a:nc: no-Qu.m".qq»" 3 S9137 ml‘ 15¢?"-fbn pjsa a'po;.s arrp1ocp' O t‘ “‘ J"'7" ‘ " ' gegeneuce Ia 1uBq8 po
Aom; memozsmqmu 140* B'QQ$()-,3: qggqq__;_|]|;p; _r . . ‘ H _' ' J80 JHJT2 IWQZOL )'.J‘F!2 U0!-A p991! GOXl5I>lKOL9q p‘2\ %'D'Q‘§gqQ . _\\/Q ‘ . .—' YL ~1-_=;r<‘nIm1=.:;sL2 sexy‘ anom (vner) mzcorr axamm X '1?‘-
F)€~-. . -_ ', — \,>- _ <='nm:,%12.14J, on mm 'vmu- - _ _ H '|n1;);q ‘*11,319 29GI..Q.pHL.'L’ - -?_\ ;- §. T_ Q \~"‘ '\~ - §vmmo £’V.ViI1flI*1 I.¢'L = ‘?> 6- @ 4' ‘ ‘ '\"' “ "iv ug:rao_r1um:‘a'cc\'\"_‘°' Qbo C!-2/"0'7 .1‘A_I,35’ s'~.'‘Q-
—.~1Q ‘ 4%‘? 7*‘ T cowwoumevr1.|~F-_.%i“vna1.uvr‘W' @ . .'-.~ ‘ ::‘::..::‘ai.., - L ".‘S\f2OI\99 if -._é' " ‘ ‘ ‘Y’ ‘ V :“.‘:|_ |:I'\"‘;__ , - ,__ _,____\_ ‘Q ___* NM ' ‘V-P»é='"_‘ "|.'-<'
. ‘ ADI$(a)/RAE/J’!"B53927X Quote in regl1_: (15/015/176) ' P 0:.»;..~.@J-<1 =,L/ 5 cop! to =- mm “ -» ngupumm’ s 25-PR. snoxr (=ws'r,_)/0' ms‘ / 74 ‘,-“Mv,T. Wf BECOIL SYSTEMS -P vs“. / Reference D of A (AD3(e))
Office Memo. 121 : Dth Apr '45 it is advised that there is no longer.~ if ~‘li1 Army reqairenent for Recoil Shutems (l'L.1'#2|lA) tor ~ _- e A "the above-named equipments, therefore it in requested ut- W plfocurenent action be
canoelJ.ed.' _-_ -4 _,,_...¢...\.,..._.-... “~15, > ‘. ..._~ -7---<» V 1‘ ‘ irector - unseat,‘el ,15:111. 345. ‘/~
4»‘ Rtmvill21 JUL DEPARTMZCNT or am: ARMY4 ,,\qY“wqwfgIM G O BRANCH1 Q; >13 DESIGN DIVISION Y ' 7’‘ Q ‘J JQuote in Reply:,__ _.. ¢_-ID M EQQF 25 Pr on Carriage, Light, Aust, No l Mk 21. Reference Item No
555 in minutes of your Weekly Staffconference No 12 of 25 Jun 45.2. The Handspikes mentioned are standard 25 Pr Handspikeemanufactured to U K drawings and should be satisfactory.5. In regard to installation of a new
buffer valve whichyour Directorate expectswill reduce strain on parts of carr-iage, it is desired to advise that the strain placed on thecarriage is due to the internal jump couple of the ordnance,caused by the C of G of the
ordnance being a large distancefrom the C of G of the piece. The installation of this newbuffer valve will have no effect on the reduction of thisjump couple.4. In the original design of the equipment, standard 25 PrOrdnance
parts, which were in production, were used in shortened form. The shortening of these parts caused the distancebetween C of Gs of ordnance and piece to be increased, thusmaking the jump couple excessive.5. To obviate
this excessive jump couple, a weight waslocated on the top of the ordnance to bring the C of Gs withinreasonable limits of one another This wei ht was removed8from production of the equipmtnt.against the
recommendation ofthis Division and until this weight is reintalled, excessiveced on the Y=tr2ia-will-he-ma -ive maintege of sgei NQgb. when the original pilot model of this equipment was,_,_,..._, ...produced and submitted
to proof trials, the expected recoilwas obtained, i.e. ll inches in maximum elevation. Itw aslater-found on the early equipments that buffer valve wascutting off in 6 inches of recoil and the remaining 5 inchesobtained by
distortion of the buffer cylinder and valve.7. To obtain out off at ll inches recoil, the pdeition ofthe cut off rod pivot on the saddles was raised and lengthof cut off rod adjusted. This gave the desired.effect andhas been so
located onall later equipments, the equipmentsalready supplied being modified in the field. '8. The equipment forwarded to U K was one with the in-correct out off and was robabl the reason for the redesignP Yof the
buf'valve system. This new buffer valve wil1.giveV V’ _ ‘ / P I I,‘ /‘ _. _./ ,,.“ V!) My __=) 7 /£_..___ 5,, .1,/;/__ 1/4) 71‘(xi/‘ -#1’ I
..g_a slightly more even distribution of trunnion load duringrecoil than the present shortened standard 25 Pr buffersystem with raised cut off rod pivot pin but it is notconsidered that the installation of same will improve
theoperation of the guns sufficiently to warrant the replace-ment of existing systems. »9. Before the manufacture of new buffer systems and in-stallation on guns is proceeded with, a test should be madeof a gun with a new
buffer system in comparison with anexisting gun with correct cut off. Definite measurementsshouldbe made of distence of lift of wheels from groundduring test.COB!‘-D°fA MajorAsst Superintendent DesignArmamentI? Jul
45IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.---III-----ll.:T?\
‘/ _ 466/‘ A;;¢Z2<;? t/’/jgrigadier, *F;_v1 Director of Jtaff Dutle0RLG K us:, I 1. _ 4'12;/:;:|’.°1|e: /5. ' I (' ' xi \ a 6%. ‘.~>‘ 'BRAN_ Rmsrggcrg.‘ AUSTRALIAN MILITARY FORCES»;s, s /vs iii_\uk _ ‘\\ "\‘/kwW-‘““‘ /Y»-\¢2’\,
‘ML ' rr) »w w». ,. P’ V . / T / 3‘QKPF (CHIEF OF HE GENERAL STAFF)HEADQUARTERSQuote in VICTORlA- BAR RACKSMELBOURNE. S.C.l. 9 6 / 8 Jul 45 ._ MGO Branch/C(‘J.‘,(Copies to - MGRA ‘ P ' ” zSD2
‘EQQIPMEEIS 2§_£§ - SHQT (gusr) - RECOIL §¥§IEM§1. Ref UGRA minute Fa/3848/RA/JN of 14 Jul 45.2. The recommendations contained therein are concurredin by this Directorate and it is requested that action
toprocure 32 recuperator blocks from UK be cancelled.f .‘/.5', _ Cyww; *2K ' ,.P‘- i »}/:\9e(wli: A 'lao:>@c,?_‘$;a _c J _, ~Z J ‘.i_ , ,,”_ ,
‘K(9 mqunmzn-rs 25-PR. snomr (AUST) - amen. smms \"]DesoDe - //’ ‘Y 1‘Copy llG0\/-' Ref. our Pd/3508/RA of S‘§Apr.45 and your sn:sq/cm 4'/sev of 9 Apr 45.2. Due to the decreasing demand for 25 Pr. Short(Aunt) for
use in operations it is now considered unnecessaryto consider modifications for the ueo or euperoherge.3. It is therefore roooumezed that notionto procure tho 52 recuperetor blocks from U.K. be oenoelled.\\e in re 1 - / “\M
n ~oq, “*8 ‘" ’§ /W7‘“' E“ ‘Z/(W?/wwé“,81-1 d((4 -Tul.-15. B.R.A, an1m1'¢”l 1 u 1 DarD $21.8 on,A1>.AJw§_ Uh ‘, n _-/VJ,_A_Q59<.‘ 47 1; _£'A[_.I4.‘ _;S@ ~14-_._ Mv_z‘iiReg'd _ \ ' ‘\ f \
- * *** s* ‘ ‘ ~ £7 '“T7_‘*\* , __:_:}i , .- _, __ ,; 5-_§2',; W “iyk//6" *#'$?? 7%k / ' ‘iv 1IIYIBO ht . 40¢Quote (15/015/1'161333204 k/"!§IORANDUI for I-'1'he Secretary,JDegertnent of Defence .Quipuente B6-pr. Short (Amt) -
Recoil System‘lb A:-my hes e requirement for 32 oi‘ e new‘ _ tzype of recuperqtor block for trials with the 85 pr. ShortAmt . ‘This recuperetor block hen 'been designedBIin UK. Ito use I111 enable the 25 pr. Short to firesuper
cherge, which, it is considered, will greetly -inc:-eese the effectiveness or that weapon. nF meet the estineted cost of 226,5003. unds to vere available from contingencies included in the Anq Pro-_ gs-une_o1' llunitione
Items compiled ee at 51st December,;"’;(,,,.'I‘;g'“*“'[ ""1944, end approved by Ier Cabinet in Iinute Io.(4121). “h ]*§5 ; .-is requested that Defence Uomnittee1 ._ 7 , 1- It121.?‘ - pprevel be gven to the expenditure of £26,500
for the _“Lw_m~ rccurenent of 52 recuperetcr blocks from UK, in eccord- ~C,/(3 ;10'!7_"L"__..__;l=:>_<>.__e'nce urn pore. s of We: Oebinet Iinute Io.(4121) /srumr RPIlctly » _ , J 0;“ Lea“ ‘mew. ' Y1’ - c1eir) ' ~ ' 8 e c 1-
t ‘5 ; j Ax/KM __..__;__L_=:.1 E ~———---- -§~_-__j A M1130: (Emit '\. 5:" T-r.-___.___- _..1.---f~~----~_-__"_ ,_‘ Master Gceenl ef the Oxdnem “ ac; /Wwagéfb g '\-Q. 7 ‘Q I :_ U ' )(|” . ‘ _ . __ - /0% ~ l H §‘.:.'.¢‘|
757; I 1 V - >;es
70L\’1E8 M2." =<‘\\ l\ . A ' 1x.;:3s\945 I‘a%<‘ ‘\v/r13 "— 3M.GO.~~l" LL,\..—.Um' >.;’\_. =. .-\. \
F V‘. I _-_71 A ' " 2 . '“1-‘ ~ ' I - M'.G.0_ ‘ > J! ' _ ,1-~e.,,::;m” A /.7’ 0/.7 /7; \‘Iv " " / . 4 . A 45°’ M C“ "‘ ' sns RA. " ' RESTRICTED.1=-when sup. ;_§|5_Y_jT.=,$:"mzu ‘11 APR&\AUSTRALIAN MILITARY FORCES(CHIEF OF
THE GENERAL STAFF)"' ' HEADQUARTERSY_ vncronm BARRACKSQ-‘wt’ m » 4 7 6 9 7 MELBOURNE. s.c.|’ ReP1Y.....(...5:..l.s..9.>..>.)T." 4°‘! '1' v>45¢_J\<31-\1:$1:\A " mo BRANCHF .Copy : MGRAA '
EQQIPI'A'E{I'ITS gs PR SHORT? _(_1_§ em‘) - REQOIL sxswems1. Reference Mr:-RA minute Fd/3508/RA/KW or 5 Apr 45.2. The recommendations eontained in the aboveminute are. concurred in by this branch and it is
requestedthat 52 recuper-ator blocks be procured from UK for trials.3 _ 1» _1; __ _ f 7 /I»-Iajor-General,H Deputy Chief of the General Staff. ._ 3:f'bo¢-H /My 1*. ‘_0/)_/W); \a°~\- §‘§$\>\m& xv» K /u-Q-J=L,r 1%.“-1. o-a.
‘_A03 5;,-,¢>4 ,t 4;, - 0-4---C»»-uh cw‘ L». Kr-u-4L. Maw Me»m._ _ '' 5G\.- . ,2 ___‘_ CA’ ___7"u N ‘;=_I /y¢f':%-c-\-/1*}! c (J “,1 5/ ~&.~.¢_gxy-1~.‘,\a E 1. * »_ "'\ ‘ ¢-:_""._‘ \ / ‘-\'»_‘__, A ___ >*_ T £.M._a...w
>>.~\»».»...,.~~J..~».u.t»»v~*:;/*-°~'_>' -,2;A __11-
E'-Q._I9/5608/Bk/II H L, NCQA AP->¢ KN Q kg».D°4'§"”‘§"3§“\* Qwexe ~‘-~‘#~ L‘ “"*"‘*"' \éi/5' 0333 5 . ‘ nurxrnms as rn snow: (A‘J81')’- nzcon. sxarns..J my 'De5eDe VCopy £0 K.G.0¢ /\1. A new reouperator block for the
above equipment:huh been designed in the U-K. This block has a modified buttervalve and cut oft gear tor a butter cylinder with twist or splinesor 1 turn in %1nstead or 1 turn in W, The main pm-pose orthe bloek is enable
the equipment t at re super ohm-go.2Q_ It la requested that 52 or these recuperator block!be obtained the ILL for trial as it in eomide:-ed that theetree..t1venen- the 25 pr mzort will be greatly increasedby the aM.‘lt1n':; 01'
euper charge. I_,>_./‘/1'“llnjor General,r- _, Vgfpr 450 leQeReAn- L-ILQ.‘l>F3(‘*’_) 33 _ 3>¢>»-o ,.,=....,-3*'5.45_/