Treatment of Column Base As Fixed or Hinged WWW - Sefindia

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connection modeling in STAAD

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AvinashJagtap Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:55 am Post subject: Re: connection modeling in STAAD
SEFI Member
Dear all
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 1
I have been seen in saudi arabia that footing support is pinned. It is general practice in the Saudi
arabia and Egypt. They believe that structure should be stiff and consume more reinforcement and
give the reference of soil consultant. although problem may arise in mind if we consider pinned
support at footing. footing retrain the moment and footing size will calculated on the basis of P/A.
which is very optimistic.
In india, I alway consider fixed footing and give importance to the footing (in point of view of
structural enginner not as per soil consultant) because footing is very critical to retroiffiting as
compare to ease of column and slab.
Indian code of concrete and detailing (Siesmic) are give more space for design of structure. We use
more reinforcement as compare to design.
Regards,
AVINASH JAGTAP
SANGEETA WIJ wrote:
Dear Mr Ranga Rao
It’s important to follow the right detail at column footing junction if a pinned support is being
assumed in place of a fixed connection; many SEs are following the same detail as used in a
fixed connection which is not quite correct.
Regards
Sangeeta Wij

From: slstructural [mailto:forum@sefindia.org]
Sent: 01 April 2013 14:17
To: general@sefindia.org
Subject: [SEFI] Re: connection modeling in STAAD

sir,My understanding about this as follows (also in line with SP 40 page 5 , section 4)
If the soil is capable of resisting rotations without appreciable settlement , we are free to take
it fixed. Normally, B/C soils etc. readily settle leading to differential will demand for pinned
connection.
Rangarao

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Dr. N. Subramanian forum@sefindia.org
(forum@sefindia.org))> wrote:
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8/14/2018 www.sefindia.org :: View topic connection modeling in STAAD

kishorpss Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:06 am Post subject:
General Sponsor
Dear Sefians,
As per NS Sir,
"Ifyou provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can assume that thefooting
transfers only axial loads to the soil.”
&
“Yes.Simlar idea has been mentioned in Paulay and Priestley Seismic design of RC
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 andMasonry structures also. You may also verify it using computer analysis, theprovision
Posts: 149 of deep grade beams will reduce the bending moments in the columnsconsiderably.”
Location: GUJARAT
With respect to his comments I am giving you my previous experience.
Earlier I have checked this type structuresin the software package”STAAD “adopting deep grade beam
at plinth level/ belowproposed formation level (slightly above the footings) with seismic forces,
which is not accepted in the package. Most ofbeams need redesign with revised sizes with warning
“SINGLE OVERREINFORCEDSECTION BEING BRITTLE SHOULD AWAYAS BE AVOIDED IN
EARTHQUAKE DESIGN. MODIFYSECTION DIMENSSION.”
During working as a Structuralconsultant for CPWD & MES, finally I adopted a principle for design of
structureby treating the column & foundation joint as pinned (Where only Axial loadstransfer to
foundation and moments transfer to Frame) and for design offoundation by treating the column &
foundation joint as fixed (Where Axialloads & moments transfer to foundations) after the acceptance
of the seniorengineers of the CPWD & MES.
I need the comments and suggestions ofthe Sefians in this respect.
Regards
KISHORE
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samantony Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: I need some one to help me out pls!!!
SEFI Member
Dear All,

Q. Is it logical to go to pin support to RCC structure?

Ans.
In general, the gravity loads dominated buildings (low rise buildings) with connection b/w column
Joined: 26 Dec 2009 and isolated footings may be used PINNED support, which will be economic footing, otherwise, if
Posts: 3
FIXED support,the moment/eccentricity will be involved your footing design, the soil cannot resist
tensile stresses, the redistribution of stresses is necessary to maintain equilibrium, then you have to
increase area of footing, which will be uneconomy, if there is mat foundation the column connection
may be FIXED or PINNED, also, over all minimum base pressur under the raft should be maintain
more than zreo, (no ngetive value), this recomends still avoid big moments to the foundation unless
inescabable.

Lateral load dominated building (high rise building) ,it may be raft only (occur high settlementno
recommend depends soil condition) or grouppiled ( occure high diffrencial settlement b/w columnno
recommend depends soil condition) or cassion or piled raft foundation (recomended by most experts)
with column connection must be FIXED then only the over all drift will be economicaly controled
(also depends plan dimension).

Regards
Antony
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)>
wrote:
Quote:
Dear All,

This connection modeling is again and again raised in the forum. We used to assume the
connection as fixed but one IIT professor, while reviewing our design suggested that we
should take the columnfoundation connection as hinges, unless it is supported on piles or
rocks. Some soil mechanics books also suggest the same, due to the fact that compressible
soils will releieve the moment due to rotation of foundation. Prof. ARC sir says the connection
has to be taken as fixed. It was debated in the forum extensively.

If you provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can assume that the footing
transfers only axial loads to the soil. Of course, the effect of fixity may be included in the
analysis by considering rotational springs (soilstructure interaction).

Best wishes
NS

ganesh_gaud wrote: Dear arun sir

"Depending on the soil, you may want to go for PINNED condition instead of FIXED condition.
This will reduce footing size, but column reinforcement in the lower level will increase. "

please can u elobrate this statement

sir it is logical to go to pin support to RCC structure?

if pin support is logical than what should be connection detail of column with footing.

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VPandya Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: Check out STAAD/PRO Example 3 See if this is
General Sponsor enough?
Dear SEFI Ers,
Check out STAAD/PRO Application Example (US Codes) EXAMP03 and see if this is enough for a day
to day Structural Engineering Design office work. Only thing I want to add is that the Connection of
Steel Columns to Top of Footings, should be having Anchor Bolts placed out side the Flanges of
columns and not in the Web. That is required to develope even a Partially Restrained Moment
Connection as in this case. For Large Size Footings I would model Footings with PLATE AND SHELL
ELEMENTS and not as CONCRETE PRISMATIC BEAMS as done in this example.
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Example Problem No. 3
Posts: 708 A portal frame type steel structure is sitting on concrete footing. The soil is to be
Location: Ahmedabad
considered as an elastic foundation. Value of soil subgrade reaction is known from which
spring constants are calculated by multiplying the subgrade reaction by the tributary area
of each modeled spring.
Regards.
Vasudeo Pandya P.E. ; S.E.
Structural Engineer.
Warning: Make sure you scan the downloaded attachment with updated antivirus tools before opening them.
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American_App_Examples_2007_Complete.pdf
American_App_Examples_2007_Complete.pdf
STAAD/Pro V8i (SELECT Series 4 EXAMP03 .
Description:
A two story Steel Frame with footings on Soil Springs.
Filename: American_App_Examples_2007_Complete.pdf Download
Filesize: 1.94 MB
Downloaded: 107331 Time(s)
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VPandya Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Check out STAAD/PRO Example 3 See if this is
General Sponsor enough?
[quote="VPandya"]Dear SEFI Ers,
Only thing I want to add is that the Connection of Steel Columns to Top of Footings, should be
having Anchor Bolts placed out side the Flanges of columns (See the Steel Column base plate
connection on page 1121 Examp 13.8 of Design Of Steel Structures by Dr. N.
Subramanian) and not in the Web.
We will get reduced moment at Column base due to rotation of footing on Soil Springs, even though
we have a fixed Column Base connection.
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 708
Location: Ahmedabad
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P.S.Babaria Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:56 am Post subject: connection modeling in STAAD
SEFI Member
any one explains the rotation which for 3x3 m foundation for one end footing edge 25 mm
settelment is small and may in favour of fixed connection for that matter. my view is angle of slope
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 4
of footing settelment is small for all practical purpose as for most of the cases eccentricity of load is
small.
do any body knows of the case where due to this fixed assumption any failure?
thanks with regards
p.s.babaria
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:31 AM, jiwaji <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
[quote] Regarding the connection I have the following to share:
a)The connection consists of two parts: internal connection between column and footing which
considering the relative stiffness of footing slab and columnsection is practically a rigid or moment
connection,
b)the columnfooting joint as a whole is partially fixed and may rotate to the extent permitted by the
subgrade soil which supports it (or not rotate at all as in case of a rocky subgrade.
As such to bring out the effect one can either model the footing joint with a partial fixity or as
"foundation (on springs)" command in a software like STAAD.
Taking a 100% pinned joint, as per my thinking does not appear correct in any normal scenario for
RCC.
Jiwaji Y Desai
TCE Jamshedpur
"Dr. N. Subramanian"
04/01/2013 09:55 AM Please respond to
general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org)
To
general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org) cc
Subject
[SEFI] Re: I need some one to help me out pls!!!
Dear All,
This connection modeling is again and again raised in the forum. We used to assume the connection
as fixed but one IIT professor, while reviewing our design suggested that we should take the column
foundation connection as hinges, unless it is supported on piles or rocks. Some soil mechanics books
also suggest the same, due to the fact that compressible soils will releieve the moment due to
rotation of foundation. Prof. ARC sir says the connection has to be taken as fixed. It was debated in
the forum extensively.
If you provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can assume that the footing transfers
only axial loads to the soil. Of course, the effect of fixity may be included in the analysis by
considering rotational springs (soilstructure interaction).
Best wishes
NS
ganesh_gaud wrote:
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knsheth123 Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:16 pm Post subject: connection modeling in STAAD
Silver Sponsor
Dear Sefians
The behaviour of the base as fixed or Pinned is primarily decided by the joint between the Footing and
Column.
When the base is analyzed as pinned, the connection to footing has to be designed as a pin in RCC
using cross bars.
In this case, redundancy of the structure is reduce which is not preferred for seismic load
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 combinations.
Posts: 123
For a moment resisting connection between column and footing, there will be redistribution of base
pressure and the fixed base assumption will stand. (We assume a linear distribution from p,max to
p,min is a simplified assumption)
The best way to assure both structural and Geo technical view point is to spend little more for Tie
Beams at Footing level to take care for Moment by balancing it as Push Pull Mechanism.
K. N. Sheth
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:53 AM, sarfaraj.husain <forum@sefindia.org (forum@sefindia.org)> wrote:
Quote:
whether foundation is resting on rock/hard strata or medium soil ....it is purely based
on the report submitted by geotech consultant....for prelimnary design point of view some
tips can be taken from experience design engineer....
but for final design geotechnical report is a must.......( no book can help for any site specific
data....books are for reference only)

sarfraj

From: "slstructural"
To: general@sefindia.org (general@sefindia.org),
Date: 04/01/13 02:15 PM
Subject: [SEFI] Re: connection modeling in STAAD

sir,My understanding about this as follows (also in line with SP 40 page 5 , section 4)
If the soil is capable of resisting rotations without appreciable settlement , we are free to take
it fixed. Normally, B/C soils etc. readily settle leading to differential will demand for pinned
connection.
Rangarao

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Dr. N. Subramanian forum@sefindia.org
(forum@sefindia.org))> wrote: auto removed

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Dr. N. Subramanian Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: connection modeling in STAAD
General Sponsor
Dear Prof. ARC,
Thank you for your kind words.
Glad to note that you are compiling a brief history on structural Analysis. We will be happy to read it.
Yes. You mentioned earlier also that your recommendation was based on some studies. But most of
the books in soil mechanics and a few Structural Engg books mention the following recommendation
" Use fixed base if the footing is on rock or on pile foundations, otherwise assume hinged ends. They
cite the rotation of footing on soil, in case of compressible soil, for this recommendation"
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5252
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, Also as you have mentioned rightly, by adopting hinged condition, the column will be designed for
U.S.A.
extra moment and the footing will get only axial load. I think it is better than designing column for
less moment due to distribution, and designing the footing for AF and Moment. We all agree that
column is an important element and the most abused in practice!
Warm regards,
NS
prof.arc wrote:
Dear Dr. NS,
I always enjoy reading your postings you are both an academic and
practical engineer

I am compiling a brief essay on history of structural analysis as
known to me for the past 60 years of my life. i would post it on SEFI
if i find it useful enough

referring to your quote about my opinion of end conditions of columns
at the lowermost level,
i would like to reiterate that it is based on parametric study of
2D/3D framed buildings
[grids of beams and.columns] in which the foundation is represented by
3/6 degrees of freedom spring elements

The spring elements were those proposed by Novak, et. al and accepted
in codes of Nuclear Structures

For the assumed variation of soil under conditions prevalent, we found
there is no justification in assuming pinned condition

Since even those who advocate pinned ends for analysis, NEVER provide
such PINNED
connection in practice, the discussion is academic except for the
fact, the bottommost columns are over designed [ the bending moments
at the top of bottommost columns are greater than when the columns are
assumed as fixed / or pliable due to spring modelling of foundation]

with best wishes
sincerely
ARC

Quote:
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum> wrote:

Quote:
Dear All,

This connection modeling is again and again raised in the forum. We
used
to assume the connection as fixed but one IIT professor, while
reviewing
our design suggested that we should take the columnfoundation
connection
as hinges, unless it is supported on piles or rocks. Some soil mechanics
books also suggest the same, due to the fact that compressible soils will
releieve the moment due to rotation of foundation. Prof. ARC sir says
the
connection has to be taken as fixed. It was debated in the forum
extensively.

If you provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can
assume
that the footing transfers only axial loads to the soil. Of course, the
effect of fixity may be included in the analysis by considering rotational
springs (soilstructure interaction).

Best wishes
NS

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lkjain.ngp Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: I need some one to help me out pls!!!
SEFI Regulars
Dear sirs,
This refers to simplifying assumptions in analysis, by taking column
bases on foundation to be fixed or hinged. When we are dealing with
wind / seismic actions as lateral loads, the assumption of fixed base
appears to be more nearer to actual action as will probably occur.
Wind or seismic are the important & critical load actions for design
of most frames.
Joined: 14 Aug 2010
Posts: 35 Wind and seismic actions are transient (short duration) and may not
allow the plastic deformations of foundation strata to occur. Under
the action of moment, the rotation of footing will be smaller as the
soil stiffness increases. Rotation of foundation resulting from the
flexibility of foundation soil will relieve part of the fixed end
moment at the base of column. This partial release of moment will
usually be of small order say 5 to 15% only in most cases. Hence in
most practical design this partial moment release can be neglected.
However due to such release of moment at column base, the design
moment in some other members of the frame may become more critical.
Examples are the plinth beams in most frames. Designer should take
care of such members which may get underdesigned by making
simplifying assumptions.
In design of elevated water tanks on staging of columns & braces, a
recommendation is to increase the moments due to wind/seismic by about
20% in the ground (/plinth / immediately above foundation) brace/
beam, in view of above situation.
There are no frames designed for gravity load only, hence the
simplification of hinged base of column is a costlier proposal. Older
text books used to recommend such assumptions. However with hinge base
assumption, the base of column and foundation should also be designed
for force actions due to fixed base assumption.. This way the whole
design becomes a little costlier.
L. K. JAIN
On 31/03/2013, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum@sefindia.org> wrote:
Quote:
Dear All,

This connection modeling is again and again raised in the forum. We used to
assume the connection as fixed but one IIT professor, while reviewing our
design suggested that we should take the columnfoundation connection as
hinges, unless it is supported on piles or rocks. Some soil mechanics books
also suggest the same, due to the fact that compressible soils will releieve
the moment due to rotation of foundation. Prof. ARC sir says the connection

If you provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can assume

Best wishes
NS

ganesh_gaud wrote:
Quote:
Dear arun sir

"Depending on the soil, you may want to go for PINNED
condition instead of FIXED condition. This will reduce footing size, but
column reinforcement in the lower level will increase. "



if pin support is logical than what
should be connection detail of column with footing.


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Dr. N. Subramanian Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: I need some one to help me out pls!!!
General Sponsor
Dear Er L.K. Jain sir,
Thanks for the email. Your point that "Wind and seismic actions are transient (short duration) and
may not allow the plastic deformations of foundation strata to occur." is a good point and rational to
accept!
Hope Engineers will keep your caution in mind, while treating the footing column joint as fixed, i.e.
"However due to such release of moment at column base, the design moment in some other
members of the frame may become more critical.
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5252
Location: Gaithersburg, MD, simplifying assumptions."
U.S.A.
Regards
Subramanian
lkjain.ngp wrote:
Dear sirs,

This refers to simplifying assumptions in analysis, by taking column
bases on foundation to be fixed or hinged. When we are dealing with
wind / seismic actions as lateral loads, the assumption of fixed base
appears to be more nearer to actual action as will probably occur.
Wind or seismic are the important & critical load actions for design
of most frames.

Wind and seismic actions are transient (short duration) and may not
allow the plastic deformations of foundation strata to occur. Under
the action of moment, the rotation of footing will be smaller as the
soil stiffness increases. Rotation of foundation resulting from the
flexibility of foundation soil will relieve part of the fixed end
moment at the base of column. This partial release of moment will
usually be of small order say 5 to 15% only in most cases. Hence in
most practical design this partial moment release can be neglected.
However due to such release of moment at column base, the design
moment in some other members of the frame may become more critical.
simplifying assumptions.
In design of elevated water tanks on staging of columns & braces, a
recommendation is to increase the moments due to wind/seismic by about
20% in the ground (/plinth / immediately above foundation) brace/
beam, in view of above situation.

There are no frames designed for gravity load only, hence the
simplification of hinged base of column is a costlier proposal. Older
text books used to recommend such assumptions. However with hinge base
assumption, the base of column and foundation should also be designed
for force actions due to fixed base assumption.. This way the whole
design becomes a little costlier.

L. K. JAIN

On 31/03/2013, Dr. N. Subramanian <forum> wrote:
Quote:
Dear All,

This connection modeling is again and again raised in the forum. We used to
assume the connection as fixed but one IIT professor, while reviewing our
design suggested that we should take the columnfoundation connection as
hinges, unless it is supported on piles or rocks. Some soil mechanics books
also suggest the same, due to the fact that compressible soils will releieve
the moment due to rotation of foundation. Prof. ARC sir says the connection

If you provide deep grade beams on top of spread footing, you can assume

Best wishes
NS

ganesh_gaud wrote:
Quote:
Dear arun sir

"Depending on the soil, you may want to go for PINNED
condition instead of FIXED condition. This will reduce footing size, but
column reinforcement in the lower level will increase. "



if pin support is logical than what
should be connection detail of column with footing.

Posted via Email
Back to top
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