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BEFORE ALSO PRESENT,

THE PLAINFIELD TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION KARASEK LAW OFFICE, LLC

3 BY, MATTHEW GOODRICH, ESQUIRE
4 641 Market Streec
5 IN RE: Grand Central Sanitary Landfill, Inc. Bangor, PA 18013-1701
6 610.588.0224
7 PLAINFIELD TOWNSHIP FIRE HALL -- For Synagro
6480 Sullivan Trail
8 Wind Gap, Pennsylvania 18091 SAUL EWING ARNSTEIN & LEHR, LLP
9 BY, ELIZABETH WITMER, ESQUIRE
10 PRESENT: PAUL LEVITS, Chairperson 1200 Liberty Ridge Drive
ROBERT SIMPSON, Vice-Chairperson Suite 200
11 THOMAS PETRUCCI, Township Manager Wayne, PA 19087
TERRY KLEINTOP, Member 610.408.4400
12 ROBIN DINGLE, Member 10 -- For Waste Management and Synagro
JEFFREY BEAVAN, Member 11
13 McFALL, LAYMAN & JORDAN, P.C.
JOHN LEZOCHE, Zoning Officer 12 BY, PETER LAYMAN, ESQUIRE
14 134 Broadway
PAIGE GERTSTENBERG, Secretary 13 Bangor, PA 18013
15 610.588.0484
DAVID BACKENSTOE, ESQUIRE, Solicitor 14 For Pen Argyl Borough
16 15
JACK EMBICK, ESQUIRE, Special SPEAKERS ON THE RECORD,
17 Environmental Solicitor 16
18 PAMELA RACEY, Representative of Synagro
ROBERT J. LYNN, P.E., Engineer 17 BRIAN CATALDO, Senior project engineer with
19 FARLEY F. FRY, P.E., Engineer Synargo
MICHAEL BRUN~~ONTI, P.E., Engineer 18 JIM HECHT, Project Manager Synagro
20 JOHN HAMROSE, Waste Management
21 19
22 20
23 VERITEXT LEGAL SOLUTIONS 21
Mid-Atlantic Region 22
24 4949 Liberty Lane, Suite 200 23
Allentown, PA 18106 24
25 25

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~~E CHAIRPERSON: All right. I'll clear.

call the meeting to order. Please rise for the First of all, I would like to
Pledge of Allegiance. introduce the planning commission so you know who is
(Pledge of Allegiance.) up here. Paul Levits is our chairman; Bob Simpson,
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. welcome to vice-chairman, Terry Kleintop is a member; Robin
the May 31st planning commission meeting with the Dingle is member; and Jeff Beavan is a member,
Synagro hearing. In a minute I will pass it over to however, he recused himself to avoid the appearance
our attorney, Attorney Backenstoe, for some review. of impropriety because of his engineering firm with
Just so it's understood that we have whom he is employed.
10 to get through a Hanover review letter, amongst some 10 Also up here tonight is Paige
11 other things. Again, the Hanover review letter is 11 Gertstenberg, she is our recording secretary; John
12 rather extensive, and we really want to get it open 12 Lezoche is the zoning officer; Tom Petrucci is the
13 to the public to ask questions and comments and 13 township manager.
14 input. More so, you've been waiting patiently for 14 Robert Lynn and Farley Fry from
15 this opportunity, and we want to try to give you 15 Hanover Engineering. Our conflict engineers are
16 this opportunity tonight. So at this moment here, 16 here tonight, Mike Brunamonti. And Jack Embick is
17 I'll pass it along to Attorney Backenstoe. 17 the special township environmental lawyer. Again.
18 MR. BACKENSTOE: Thank you, Paul. 18 we're pleased to have everybody.
19 Thank you very much. Again, I'm David Backenstoe, 19 Just quickly to review, the purpose or
20 pleased to serve as solicitor to the planning 20 the reason we're meeting is to review the
21 conunission. 21 preliminary land development/subdivision plan that
22 We'll sort of go over the rules thac 22 was submitted for the Grand Central Landfill Heat
23 we've been following at really all of the meetings 23 Recover Project.
24 that we've had which involve this, because it is 24 In the submission the applicant
25 extensive and there are a lot of people here so it's 25 proposes a material separation facility, which is a

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permitted use in the solid waste processing
district. The operator would be Synagro.
The planning commission's mandate, so
everybody understands what we're trying to do, is to
review the submission, which is extensive, and
ensure that it's -- there's full compliance with the
township subdivision land development ordinance,
zoning ordinance and other related regulations and
Gap Borough and Lower Mount Bethel.
Just quickly, and we've really had
great results in moving through the process, we
haven't had any issues, but this is an application
which has generated much emotion, and that'S why
there are so many people that attend these meetings.
So we like to make sure that we handle the matter in
a professional manner.

laws which would apply to this par~icular We ask that when you present, please
10 application. 10 be prepared, be constructive and be respectful of
11 In reviewing these applications, the 11 others, listen to what everybody is saying. We ask
12 planning commission considers the applicant's 12 that you don't have sidebar conversations, it'S
13 submission, and comments and submissions from 13 distracting. Please turn your cellphones off. We
14 township residents, comments from neighboring 14 really don't like shout-outs. Everybody is going to
15 communities, of course the reports from our civil 15 have an opportunity to speak or ask questions.
16 engineer, our environmental engineer, and reports 16 The presentation started last meeting,
17 from township staff, including the zoning officer 17 as all of you who attended are aware, with Synagro,
18 and manage r . 18 through counsel Elizabeth Witmer and Matt Goodrich,
19 As far as party status, you don't 19 making an open presentation.
20 really have a party status in a planning review like 20 We then started to review the Hanover
21 this. However, I would note that Attorney Peter 21 review letter, and we got through some of that. We
22 Layman has always been present and had written to 22 did want to have a public comment at 9:30, so we did
23 the township very early on indicating that he wanted 23 that. Because a lot of people can't come to every
24 to participate on behalf of the Borough of Pen 24 meeting and some get frustrated because they just
25 Argyl. We also welcome representatives from Wind 25 want to make a comment and we allowed that, and

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we're going to allow that again tonight at 9:30. going to go over is dated May 30th. understand
But the process or procedure we're it's short notice, but what we have reviewed since
going to follow tonight is, again, to turn it over the last meeting includes the permit applications
to representatives from Hanover Engineering, and let that were submitted, or at least the general
them follow up with any questions. information forms submitted with regard to
We reviewed let me just get my applications of discharge industrial stormwater,
packet out. We reviewed in some detail with the solid waste management permit, minor modification,
applicant the Hanover's March 16th letter, and residual or municipal waste general permit, and air
Hanover does have some follow-up questions as a quality plan approval application, and also Lehigh

10 result of that letter. And so we're going to first 10 Valley Planning Commission Act 167 drainage plan

11 address those and turn that over to Hanover. 11 review. So we'll get right into it. We'll start

12 After that, what I anticipate is we're 12 off with our environmental concerns.

13 going to ask Mr. Layman on behalf of the Borough to 13 MR. GOODRICH: Can I address an issue

14 question the applicant. And then we are literally 14 just quick?

15 going to turn the floor over to residents who may 15 MR. BACKEN5TQE, Sure.
16 ask questions to the applicant. 16 MR. GOODRICH: With respect to the

17 ~~d I guess we have the mic set up for 17 Hanover Engineering letter, it'S my understanding
18 residents to come up and ask questions so everybody 18 that we've gone through the March

19 can hear them, and they can have an open dialogue, 19 MR. BACKENSTOE: The original March

20 give and take, with applicant and the applicant will 20 16th letter.

21 have a wireless mic. 21 MR. GOODRICH: Right, with respect to

22 With that, I'm going to turn the floor 22 comments to that letter. We did just receive the
23 over to I guess Robert Lynn and Farley Fry and let 23 May 30 letter yesterday.
24 you gentlemen dive in. 24 MR. BACKENSTOE: I understand.
25 MR. LYNN: Thank you. The review I'm 25 MR. GOODRICH: So just to the extent

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that people may, you know, be having questions based MR_ LYNN: I think some of the
on this, it was our understanding from the last comments we can skip over, because there are things

meeting that we would be going through the zoning that are typically with the land development plan

officer'S letter of March 20th. like certificates and --

~~d so to the extent that ~erre able MR. BACKENSTOE: ! guess the Hanover

to do that. we would do that. but we would be letter was to some extent in response to some of

hopeful that we would get through the your comments that these things are covered in the

zoning -- zoning letter as described at the last DEP application. So it took them a while to do that

meeting. We didn't have this until yesterday. and go through that.

10 MR. BACKENSTOE: I'll address that and 10 I certainly understand that if they

11 it'S a fair comment. Actually, though, I thought 11 have a comment and it's a question and it'S

12 what we were going to do was Hanove~ and then go to 12 something new, that you may not be prepared and that

13 the BCM letter and then the zoning. But maybe we 13 certainly is appropriate --

14 can move that around and go through the zoning. 14 MR. GOODRICH: Understood.

15 I did not realize that Hanover was 15 MR. BACKENSTOE: -- to just say it'S

16 preparing sort of a supplemental memo, if you will. 16 under a new letter, a 19-pager which we just got

We did all just get it. 17 last night, we're not ready to address that but

:8 MR. GOODRICH: It's a 19-page 18 we'll get back to you in the future. That'S a point

19 document. 19 well taken and with that we'll just move through the

20 MR. BACKENSTOE: It'S a 19-page 20 process.

21 document and we did just get it yesterday. guess 21 MR. LYNN: Okay. What I would like to

22 to the extent that supplements or augments that 22 start with is item number 7 on page of the May

23 March 16th letter which you had a give and take at 23 30th letter, with regard to the information on

24 last meeting, I think Hanover is going to ask some 24 trailers that are planned for use in transporting
25 follow-up questions on that. 25 biosolids to the propose facility and backhaul

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process wastewater to the generator of the and we'll proceed through in that fashion. Thank

biosolids. you.
The applicant indicated that the MS. RACEY: Pam Racey with Synagro.
trailer information was provided as part of the With respect to number 7, the primary plan is for
final land development submission. In addition, the the wastewater to be backhauled to the generator
application to PA DEP has indicated that offsite that the biosolids came from.
disposal contractors may be used for wastewater However, there may be some cases for
disposal or wastewater may be backhauled by one reason or another where they don't want to take
biosolids trucks to wastewater treatment plants it back or would prefer that we use another option.
10 generating the biosolids. 10 And there'S multiple options for that. Probably the
11 The applicant should clarify potential 11 largest disposal site for that type of wastewater is
12 disposal sites if contract haulers are employed for 12 the Passaic Valley Wastewater Treatment Plant from
13 process wastewater disposal. 13 New Jersey. They take it in from all around.
14 Number 8, similar comment. 14 Also, the Parsippany-Troy Hills
15 MR. BACKEN5TOE: Do you want to 15 Wastewater Treatment Plant, they also cake in
16 respond point for point or do you ~ant him to go 16 outside material on a regular basis.
17 through -- how does the applicant to handle 17 MS. DINGLE: Would you have to have

18 that? 18 contracts in place prior to this, like agreements of

19 MS. WITMER: I think the record will 19 how much water they would take for each facility?
20 be cleaner if we respond after the issue. 20 MS. RACEY: Yes, for example, when we
21 MR. BACKENSTOE: I agree. 21 made a contract with the generator to bring material
22 MS. WITMER: This is one that although 22 here, as part of that contract would be the
23 we only got it yesterday 23 agreement to take the backhaul, or if they weren't
24 MR. BACKENSTOE: I got you. Why don't 24 going to take it, we would have to have the
25 we make the point, and then we'll let them comment 25 alternate facility lined up under contract.

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MS. DINGLE, So at this point you MR. SIMPSON, I'm looking

don't have those in place so you don't know the exponentially the ammonia count would have to
percentage that would go back co the original increase dramatically as you continue to take that
generator? processed water back. The next load of cake to me
MS. RACEY: No, we don't have that in would have higher percentage of ammonia than the
place. It'S our belief based on preliminary first plant.

discussions with potential customers that a majority MS. RACEY, That's not the way it
of i t would go back. But there are some that are in works. The wastewater treatment plants are designed
a sensitive basin and would like to handle i t to have certain ammonia removal efficiencies and
10 another way. 10 certain discharge limites. So they will clean that
11 MS. DINGLE: Okay. Thank you. 11 up to the same standard. The ammonia loanings
12 MR. SIMPSON: I have a question, kind 12 aren't material. It's like 1 or 2 percent or less.

13 of a follow-up. If you're taking it back to tha: 13 That's a big plant. If it'S a small plant, it's
14 plant, ~ould you be bringing additional loads from 14 much less.

15 that plant here for processing? 15 I mean, just to give you an example of

16 MS. RACEY; Well, I mean, the plan is 16 that, we have a lot of drying facilities that -- as
17 to take the cake biosolids here and then take the 17 Philadelphia we talked about, we dry that material
18 liquid condensate back. 18 and the return flow is sent right back to the plant
19 MR. SIMPSON: Right. But then you'=e 19 and it doesn't get more and more concentrated each
20 going to put that back into the wastewater 20 time. It's a steady state.
21 processing plant. 21 THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
22 MS. RACEY: Correct. 22 MR. 3ACKENSTOE: Anybody else? Okay.
23 MR. SIMPSON: And process it again. 23 MR. LYNN: Item number 8. The
24 Will the cake then come from that plant here again? 24 applicant should address environmental concerns
25 MS. ~~CEY: Sure, yes. 25 associated with transportation of sludge cake and
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associated biosolids. cake material. Is the projected tuck count based on

The applicant has noted that the de~atered biosolids or a mixcure of dewatered and
trucks hauling biosolids will be licensed, fully settled biosolids?
contained and tarped. The applicant should provide Please describe any difference in

example of similar trucks transporting biosolids pellet characteristics such as dust and odors, based
through residential areas with an emphasis on on use primary/secondary blend and undigested
primary sludge, secondary sludge, primary/secondary biosolids versus digested biosolids.

blend and undigested sludge. Describe any odor variances between

MS. RACEY: We can provide some hauling primary or undigested biosolids versus

10 additional examples back in writing. But I did ~ant 10 digested biosolids.

11 to make the comment that I mean, the landfill 11 The applicant has indicated that only

12 already accepts biosolids that comes in tarps. So 12 biosolids cake will be processed at the heat

13 this type of material is already coming into Grand 13 recovery center, and therefore, the truck count is

14 Central Landfill. 14 based on dewatered cake.

15 THE CHAIRPERSON: Any questions? 15 In addition, the applicant has noted

16 Okay. 16 thac pellet characteristics vary depending on the

17 MR. LYNN; The General Information 17 nature of the influent biosolids. For example,

18 Form Notification of Individual NPDES permit 18 pellets generated from primary slUdge have more

19 application for stormwater runoff from industrial 19 odors than pellets generated for digested sludge.

20 activities states dewatered municipal biosolids, 20 The applicant also noted chat

21 primary/secondary blend, digested and undigested, 21 transporting undigested biosolids has the potential

22 will be transported. 22 for more odors, although the typical odor is

23 Please clarify if the whole biosolids 23 minimal.

24 will be dewatered cake or if some of the biosolids 24 As noted in comment 9, more

25 will have higher water content compared to typical 25 information should be provided on transporting

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primary cake or any cake that is not derived from that an odor issue occurred in Honolulu and the

digested biosolids. issue had been investigated by the University of

Finally, the General Information Form Hawaii. The applicant should provide information on

Notification of Individual NPDES Permit application the pellet odor issue in Hawaii.

for stormwater runoff from industrial activities MS. RACEY: I just want to correct

refers to municipal biosolids while the Waste that. What we indicated was Hawaii had the same

Analysis and Classification Plan submitted to DEP concern about potential regrowth, not because there

discusses potential biosolids sources not from was odor, just before the plant was even built, they

POTW5. The latter could include privately-owned 9 asked the same question you guys are asking.

10 wastewater treatment plants serving municipalities 10 And so in order to, you know, get a

11 and developments, but could also include residual 11 third-party opinion for them and alleviate their

12 waste such as industrial dewatered sludge. 12 concerns we had University of Hawaii do a regrowth

13 MS. RACEY: That's a lot of questions 13 study on some pellets supplied from other plants.

14 and -- wrapped up in one. I think on that one we 14 And I thought we had provided a copy of that. But

15 would like to get back to you in more detail over 15 we can certainly provide a copy of that study.

16 time, so that we can be concise in our answer 16 It was not about odor. It was

17 because there1s three or four questions in there and 17 concerning that there wasn't regrowth in the

18 they1re pretty beefy. 18 pellets.

19 ~~E CHAIRPERSON: Any other comments 19 MR. LYNN: The applicant should

20 from up front while we1re on that? Okay. Mr. Lynn. 20 provide information regarding sources and quality of

21 MR. LYNN: The applicant should 21 biosolids that would be processed by the proposed

22 address concerns regarding potential biological 22 facility, including standard operating procedures.

23 regrowth in the final pelletized product. 23 The standard operating procedures should address

24 The applicant has indicated that 24 proposed testing protocols.

25 pellet orders will not be a problem and also noted 25 The applicant has noted that there are

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no contracted sources of biosolids cake at this time requirements for what'S allowed on inbound quality.

and, therefore, Synagro cannot provide biosolids So we'll share both what we expect it to be, but

quality information. The applicant should provide then as a follow up when the permit is issued, we'll

general biosolids quality information used to design get the actual requirements from PA DEP.

the proposed heat recovery center. We can correct the sentence

Additionally, the waste analysis and that -- Tom, did you have something that you wanted
classification plan submitted to D3P should be to add on that sentence? We'll just clarify it. It
revised. The fourth bulleted item under site sounds like it was a typo that was missed.

characterization states that, a chemical analysis of And was -- was the only o her

10 the biosolids which include the following: The date 10 question, will we randomly sample incoming

11 of the analysis. The sentence appears to be 11 biosolids? The biosolids sampling protocol can be

12 incomplete. Please clarify. 12 mixed depending on the customer. So some customers

13 The last sentence of the paragraph of 13 are solely responsible for it, and they give us a

14 the same section should clearly state that any 14 copy of it.
15 sampling/analysis by the heat recovery center will 15 In some cases we're responsible for

16 occur prior to the delivery of the center. 16 the testing and we send it to a third-party lab for
17 will the center randomly sample the 17 testing.

18 incoming cake to confirm biosolids quality as 18 Typically, we may pull a random sample
19 reported by the generators. 19 if we feel like something is off, like the biosolids
20 MS. RAC3Y: A couple things again, so 20 are wetter than normal or there seems to be
21 we -- we can provide and we will provide you kind of 21 something unusual. I mean, certainly a random
22 the general biosolids quality analysis that the 22 sampling program, if that was of interest to the

23 plant was designed around and what we expect the DEP 23 commission, it is something that we will be willing
24 permit to require on quality. 24 to consider.
25 Ultimately, the DEP will set the 25 MR. LYNN: Quick follow-up question.

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Will you have the ability to process random samples them, we have to produce table 3, which is the
at the plant? cleanest type of material. So we would anticipate
MS. RACEY: For certain parameters. that that would be the requirement for the inbound.
Not all parameters. We're not going to have metals. MR. SIMPSON: Okay. So there's two
for example. there. We'll have solids and things of 5 parts to it. One is the processing part that needs
that nature, PH, et cetera. But we always use to be a certain moisture content to be effectively
third-party labs for the official analysis. processed in your plant?
MR. SIMPSON: Excuse There's only MS. RACEY: Right.
one microphone. I have a question on that. What is MR. SIMPSON: PH I'm not sure of, the
10 the quality that's set forth by the DEP? Can you 10 contamination metals, et cetera.

11 just explain what's good quality and what's 11 MS. RACEY, Yes.
12 rejected? Is it just the water content, the PH or 12 MR. SIMPSON: You test both inbound
13 is it the chemical composition? 13 and the product going out?
14 MS. RACEY: It's some of each. So MS. RACEY: Correct, correct.

15 typically there's a solids range. It may be 15 to 15 MR. SIMPSON: And in your experience

16 30 percent. So there's usually a minimum 16 at a typical plant, what is the incidence level of
17 requirement so that it's not too watery, and then 17 rejecting contamination I'm more interested in, not

18 there's also a requirement which is really set by 18 the processing part?

19 the federal government in the 503 =ules for -- for 19 MS. ~~CEY: The most common rejection
20 metals such as zinc. copper, boron. cadmium. So 20 would be for the solids. Honestly. I can't think of
21 those are the primary items and they're listed in 21 any rejection. I'll follow up on a contamination
22 the 503s. 22 basis. I've been in the business for 30 years and
23 Typically the DEP either requires 23 not at one of our merchant plants, but at one of our
24 what's called table 3 metal limits or table 1. For 24 regular wastewater treatment plants, you know, there

25 us to be able to distribute the pellets to sell 25 was an inflow contamination issue that was caught by

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the monitors. For me once in 30 years. It's really any~here from monthly to bimonthly. mean, some of
not that common. the real small plants are quarterly. But most of

MR. SIMPSON: So the inbound product the plants we deal with are a monthly composite, so
sludge coming in or the cake. as you call it. they would pull, grab samples every week and then
generally fits the parameters most of the time? composite them for a monthly analysis.

MS. RACEY, It does. Almost - - I MR. SIMPSON, Okay.

guess all municipalities most municipalities of MR. KLEINTOP: How many samples are we

any size have pretreatment requirements that it's talking about in a week? We're not just talking one

required by the federal regulations that they have sample a week. are we?

10 programs that monitor all their major dischargers. 10 MS. RACEY: You know, I couldn't speak

11 not residential dischargers, but if there'S any food 11 effectively to what each wastewater treatment plant

12 processing or industrial discharges. they're all 12 is. There are individual requirements. I mean. if

13 monitored and they have discharge permits and they 13 you were interested. I could do a sampling of like

14 have influent monitoring at the wastewater treatment 14 three generators and. you know. get back to you with

15 plant. So usually if there's an upset, it's 15 what their typical sampling plan is.

16 triggered at the inflow in the wastewater plant 16 But I will tell you that the
17 because unusual character implants can upset the 17 wastewater treatment process itself is nOt very
18 biosolids treatment process. It's usually caught 18 variable. You're getting huge inflows and it's all

19 upfront at the plant if anything happens. but by the 19 being process and mixed together and these are long

20 time it gets to us it'S pretty standard. 20 detention times. They're in systems, you know, for

21 MR. SIMPSON: Can you give us an idea 21 ten days in an aerobic system. There's nOt a lot of

22 how often you're required to test or do you test for 22 variability from day today in the sampling.

23 contamination now? 23 MR. KLEINTOP: Are the wastewater

24 MS. RACEY: It's dependent on the size 24 treatment plants responsible for identifying the

25 of the ~astewater treatment plant and it goes 25 nine metals?

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MS. RACEY: Yeah, they're responsible our company, 11 million tons of biosolids a year.

for -- And, you know, I've been in the business for 30

MR. KLEINTOP: And the amount of each years. I've seen many, many, many samp es and it'S

of those metals? not something that I would call an area for concern.
MS. RACEY: Yes, yes. And they have It's very well regulated. It became

to report that to the EPA every year in a 503 regulated in the '70s. The municipalities and the

reporting document. They have to follow regulations regulators have gotten really good at making sure

issued by both the reds and the state to comply with what's coming into their plants is clean.
that. THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Any other

10 THE CB_~IRPERSON: On that vein, how 10 questions?

11 much of your -- what would you say the percentage of 11 MR. KLEINTOP: Yeah, are you by any

12 the incoming product is going to be out of plants 12 chance targeting specific wastewater treatment

13 that have industrial wastes versus plants that are 13 plants to be serviced by this particular plant?

14 domestic waste only, because they run under two 14 MS. RACEY: I mean, we're talking to

15 separate sets of rules and requirements and testing? 15 many plants. You know, it's a matter of who will

16 MS. RACEY: Well, I - - I can I t really 16 commit to what tons over what period of time.

17 effectively answer that, because I don't know which 17 What'S your reason for asking that?

18 plants there are. I would tell you that most 18 MR. KLEINTOP: The reason being if

19 plants, you know, except for very small plants have 19 there were six facilities that say we'll be bringing

20 some, what you call, industrial contribution which 20 in 80 percent of the product that will De processed

21 could really be a commercial organization, but 21 here, I would be very, very interested in your offer

22 anything nonresidential is industrial. But, you 22 concerning the sampling or concerning the history of
23 know, in effect those are the ones that are most 23 those particular plants and what their requirements

24 closely looked at. 24 are that they say they must meet before they release

25 I mean, we -- we manage personally, 25 it to you for for being converted into class A.

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MS. RACEY: Sure. I mean, I think we how often they get to Pennsylvania, but I wouldn't

could do a sampling of potential generators think very often.

and -- but one of the things I want to emphasize is, MS. RACEY: You know, we have to
you kno~, this sampling protocol is a nationwide submit separate requirements to the federal
protocol that was implemented in the '90s. It's not government every year.
up to each generator what they would do. This is THE CHAIRPERSON, Okay. Anything else
dictated by the federal regulations and the states right now? All right. Mr. Lynn.

can make them stricter if they want. MR. LYNN: Provide information on

MR. KLEINTOP: That'S my concern. similar Haarslev Industries installations, United

10 never get a real comfortable feeling that the DEP is 10 States.

11 on tOP of this to the extent that I would be 11 The applicant noted that at present

12 comfortable. 12 there are no operational Haarslev Industries

13 MS. RACEY: I can tell you that there 13 facilities in the United States that are similar to

14 were years and years of studies done on biosolids, 14 the proposed heat recovery center, although two are

15 by scientists in Washington D.C. and allover the 15 under construction, Howard County, Maryland and

16 country in real life testing to come up with these. 16 Pinellas County, Florida.
17 TheY're risk-based rules based on actual scientific 17 The applicant should confirm thae ehe

18 studies. It wasn't just arbitrary numbers that were 18 facilities under construction will utilize a
19 set. 19 low-heat drying process similar to the proposed heat
20 MR. KLEINTOP: No, but the DEP is 20 recovery center and should provide municipal contact

21 responsible for overseeing it. 21 information for the facilities under construction in
22 MS. RACEY: As well as the EPA. 22 Maryland and Florida.

23 MR. KLEINTOP: Right. But in 23 MS. RACEY: Again, just a point of

24 Pennsylvania we're going to be getting the DEP 24 clarification here. Howard County, Maryland is
25 looking at it a lot harder than EPA. don't know 25 constructing it. Neither of these facilities are

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our facilities. The Howard County facility is going consideration and so forth.

to be owned and operated by the municipality itself. MS. RACEY: Sure. We can provide
The facility in Florida is owned by another private that. And I know HDR is their consulting engineer
company like us, and it's not in Pinellas County_ as well, their design engineer.
It's in the Jacksonville area. MR. FRY: I thank you.
We wouldn't have access to any MR. LYNN: The next three comments are

information on -- on the Jacksonville facility. We simple comments. The first one deals with fire

8 do currenely work with Howard County on a land extinguishers, which the information will be -- and

application program, you know, so we could a correctio~ on the DEP application will be made

10 coordinate with them to get some information. 10 with regard to emergency contact.

11 Are you asking for information from 11 Comments 14 and 15 are related to dust
12 Howard County itself or from MDE, the regulating 12 control and they have stated using a food grade

13 entity? 13 Glycerin coating for dust control and additional

14 MR. FRY: You mentioned this was 14 documentation will be provided with the land

15 the -- there was no similar facility or the two were 15 development plan.

16 under construction. We were just trying to get more 16 Comment number 16, information should
17 information on those, did not know who owned them or 17 be provided on the proposed odor control system,
18 how -- or where they were even in the construction 18 including the potential for offset odors.

19 process. 19 Additional odor control information

20 MS. RACEY: I mean, I can get you the 20 was provided as part of the application to PA DEP.

21 Howard County contact for the folks building the 21 The applicant noted long-term successful odor

22 plant. 22 control at similar facilities that Patapsco and

23 MR. FRY: think we're just looking 23 Black River in Baltimore and Hagerstown, Maryland

24 for a level of comfort. The system you're proposing 24 and Pinellas County, Florida.

25 has bee~ eva uated by others and is under 25 Please confirm that the unloading area

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will not be enclosed and will not be exposed to unloading that are occurring? Are there facilities

negative pressure. ~xe there any pelletizing where the truck unloading operation is enclosed?

facilities in the United States equipped with ~~d I don't know

enclosed unloading areas with negative pressures to MS. RACEY: I want to follow up on

control order? that. Frankly, I'm not sure.

MS. RACEY: I'm going to ask Brian to MR. PRY: Okay. Thank you.

help with the first question. .~d as far as the 7 MR. LYNN: Comment 17 is provide

facilities in the U.S., I would like to get back to 8 information on the S,OOO-galion tank adjacent to the

you. I don't have all of that off the top of my truck tipping area.

10 head. 10 Some information was provided as part

11 MR. CATALDO: I'm Brian Cataldo, 11 of the DEP application. Additional information

12 project engineer with Synagro. The -- the receiving 12 should be included in the final land development

13 area and receiving units are covered receiving units 13 plan submission.

14 that are under negative head pressure that are 14 Same with number 18. It'S with regard

15 ventilated to the odor control system, so I believe 15 to the negative head. We just discussed it a little

16 your question is a misunderstanding of what we're 16 bit. And again, additional details are to be
17 proposing. 17 provided as pare of ehe final land developmenc
18 MS. RACEY: So it's not an enclosed 18 SUbmittal.

19 building, but the receiving hopper has a negative 19 Comments 19, 20, 21, 22 are all items

20 draw under them and a lid that opens and closes. 20 that can be handled with -- that have been addressed

21 MR. FRY: So the receiving hopper or 21 with the information we received or will be handled

22 tank is regulated in cerms of odor control? 22 as part of the final land development submission.

23 MS. RACEY: Correct. 23 What is the height of the proposed

24 MR. FRY: I guess the question is, are 24 process wastewater storage tank?

25 there odors that are coming from the truck while 25 The applicant submitted height of
-------- --
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process tank will be 25 feet. ~~d again. addicional more gas at the landfill, so it'S 100 percent. Then
information will be provided as part of land it trails off and the amount of natural gas comes
development submission. forward, you know, goes up.
The applicant should project the use MR. KLEINTOP: But we're admitting at
of waste heat from the landfill gas to energy the current time the landfill doesn't generate
facility versus natural gas over the next 20 years. enough -- doesn't generate enough waste heat in
The applicant has indicated Synagro order to fulfill your requirements.
has modeled the use or waste heat versus use or MR. HECHT: We modeled it at 84 and
natural gas. The model indicated that the waste 16. It's probably greater than 84 percent. When we
10 heat would provide 84 percent of the energy. with 10 say we model it, we're running economic projections
11 natural gas providing the remaining 16. The 11 and calculations on flows. So the it will vary
12 applicant should submit model input and assumptions 12 over time. It 1 s probably going to be higher than 84
13 as part of the final land development submittal. 13 percent, but when we do our model we say, okay, what
14 THE CHAIRPERSON: I have a question 14 do we need to have for backup energy? So this we
15 down here. 15 engineered it at 84/16. What it will actually be
16 MR. KLEINTOP: The 84 percent, are you 16 will fluctuate to some extent.
17 only using 84 percent because the energy center 17 MS. RACEY: Is there a specific basis
18 isn't capable of giving you the total load you need? 18 of concern around your question?
19 MR. HECHT: Correct. 19 MR. KLEINTOP: Yes. I think the
20 MS. RACEY; I don't have all the 20 communities are probably looking at this from a
21 information to answer this and don't know if 21 standpoint of a Green Knight revenue generator and
22 anyone on our team here does. Is that 84/16 22 probably work from the assumption if we have so much
23 constant or it's overtime, right? 23 waste heat, that·s why you want to be here.
24 MR. HECHT: It'S an average. 24 MR. HECHT: Correct.
25 MS. RACEY: In early years there'S 25 MR. KLEINTOP: Then why wouldn't we

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operate at 100 percent of the landfill and generate landfill gas directly. There'S that potential also.
the maximum revenue possible -- MR. KLEINTOP: Now, why is your study
MR. HECHT, Right. projected out over 20 years?
MR. KLEINTOP, -- for Green Knight MR. HECHT: Say that again.
which they say they will distribute to the MR. KLEINTOP: Why is your study
communities? projected over a 20-year period of time? I think we
MR. HECHT: If that's the question, know the reason I'm asking that question. If not,
I'm sorry, it's our intention to use 100 percent of I'll explain myself.
9 the energy we need if the Green Knights have it MR. HECHT: Well, we did a 20-year
10 available. So our agreement with Green Knights is 10 life cycle -- we do a 20-year life cycle analysis on
11 we'll use their energy if they have it available. 11 the pro formas on the models.
12 We would be happier to run it at 100 percent. We 12 MS. RACEY: That'S the expected life
13 have that 16 percent in there in case they have like 13 of our facility.
14 a turbine go down or they have to redo those 14 MR. KLEINTOP: That's the expected
15 turbines every once in a while. 15 life of the facility, 20 years?
16 Sometimes the amount of landfill gas 16 MS. RACEY, Yes.
17 fluctuates. We would not be turning down energy in 17 MR. KLEINTOP: So that makes sense
18 order to burn natural gas. If the Green Knights 18 from an ROI standpoint. But maybe I have the wrong
19 have it available. we will use 100 percent. 19 understanding. But my understanding is that the
20 MR. KLEINTOP: At this point in time. 20 landfill thinks at the current time that they will
21 you don't feel you can provide 100 percent? 21 be filling all of their cells by 2028, 2029. which
22 MR. HECHT; I don't chink they can. 22 we're now at '18. I co Id see the quickest use
23 We have to be conserve in our projections. This 23 would be operating 2020. It looks to me like 9 or
24 leaves out the potential that if for some reason the 24 10 years. Now, you may get two or three years
25 turbine went down, we could potentially burn 25 beyond the nine or ten at a much lower rate gas

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being generated if the plant is no longer filling If they go from two turbines to one.
cells. there would be a tremendous amount of energy
So I'm looking at it and saying. well. available to us in the landfill gas. If it was to

this is going to generate revenue and be of use to continue to drop and they didn't run at all, then we
you for somewhere between maybe nine or 12 years. would be able to use all the landfill gas. So.

That's my main reason for asking why you're doing actually, we could end up having more energy for

your projections for over a 20-year period of time. quite a while after the landfill stops receiving
Ie makes sense you're calking abouc wasce. And chose are the projections we got and
the life of your plant. that makes sense to me. that'S how we calculated it.

10 It's a standard analysis procedure, but I don't see 10 MR. KLEINTOP, Who provided those
11 it becoming reality in this particular situation. 11 projections? I would like to see those projections?

12 MR. HECHT: well. I mean. we did look 12 MR. HECHT: Waste management.

13 at that. We got projections from waste management 13 MR. KLEINTOP, Okay.

14 on their landfill gas generation over the 20 years. 14 THE CHAIRPERSON, All right.
15 And. you know. they are not able to exactly predict 15 Mr. Lynn, next.

16 when the landfill will be full from receiving of 16 MR. LYNN: Please provide a
17 municipal waste because they don't control the 17 representative list of Synagro facilities with

18 volumes exactly. So there'S some uncertainty there. 18 abatement systems.

19 But if the landfill is to close. the 19 Some additional information was

20 landfill still generates landfill gas. What would 20 provided as part of the application to PA DEP. A

21 happen is that it would slowly drop off. But as it 21 list of facilities with similar noise abatement

22 drops off, it makes it unviable to run the turbines 22 systems should be provided to allow site visits by

23 for the energy. And the energy that'S taken out of 23 Plainfield Township representatives, if desired.

24 combustion landfill gas takes most of the energy 24 MR. HECHT: We'll provide you some

25 out. 25 plants.

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MR. LYNN: The next two comments MS. RACEY: Well, currently the EPA,
information has been prOVided. One is with regard they periodically look at Nhat constituents they

to vector control, and the other is with regard to require to be tested in biosolids. They're doing,

process control information and additional you know, a sampling program to test various

information will be provided as part of land municipalities to see if it warrants adding it to

development submission. the list of contaminates that need to be tested.

Information should be provided ~~d to this point. they have not deemed it necessary

regarding potential sludge cake containing to do that.

pharmaceuticals and address any associated concerns. So if at any point they -- they decide

10 The applicant has indicated there are 10 that, you know -- you know, based on their science

11 no state or federal regulations regarding 11 and their research that they need to add that, then,

12 pharmaceuticals and affirm that Synagro will comply 12 you know. we would add that to our protocol.

13 with all existing state and federal regulations. 13 MR. HECHT: One other thing is that

14 MS. RACEY: Is there a question? 14 the EPA does do a biannual review every two years of

15 MR. LYNN: Not really. That was a 15 the regulations. People who have concerns expressed

16 concern that was raised before. I wanted to make 16 that to -- all the concerns that we've heard here,

17 sure that everybody was aware of it. 17 and so chey're aware of those. They go chrough

18 MS. DINGLE: Well, there is question. 18 those every year to see if there'S any evidence to

19 So there is a data gap here. There'S a data gap 19 see if there's actually a health problem that isn't

20 here. So there'S -- you're saying you 1 re going to 20 covered by the current regs. They just actually

21 comply with state and federal regulations, and 21 issued their biannual report again in the last month

22 again. the community has expressed concerns at 22 or t'....o.

23 meetings of pharmaceutical wastes, and yet we're ~ow 23 People are aware of it. The

24 saying there are regulations that will require 24 regulators are aware of it. The scientists are
25 sampling. 25 aware of it. They do look at it regularly, and they

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will keep on it and continue to look at it MS. RACEY: What pharmaceuticals?

regularly. MS. DINGLE: There's got to be some
If they were to find an issue, sampling like human risk and everything else of what
potential health or environmental issue, they would the pharmaceuticals would contain. So I guess what

change the regs, and then we would be responsible to we're trying to do is get a true baseline what's

abide by that. The way that would work is our coming in.

customers would be responsible and we have to MS. RACEY, Let us take a look
change, you know, what we do or how we work with the at -- let us see what'S in the last science board
generators, then that would flow from the generators review and the findings. Maybe get that to you to
10 to us. 10 look at.
11 MS. DINGLE: I understand the state 11 I mean, I don't necessarily feel that
12 and federal regulations and the requirements and 12 we would be qualified to say, oh, here'S what should

13 everything. 13 be tested and how it should be tested and what the

14 MR. HECHT: I'm sorry. 14 baseline is. I mean, the EPA does have data on
15 MS. DINGLE: That's fine. Thank you. 15 baseline and material. And based on what they
16 I guess the question would be, I'll just ask you, 16 found, they don't believe the baseline levels
17 you don't have to answer, but would Synagro be 17 are -- will cause any problems, so they're not
18 willing to go beyond the requirements of state and 18 regulating it. So they do have baseline data.

19 federal and implement some kind of pharmaceutical 19 MR. SIMPSON: That brings me to, just
20 baseline samplings from the generators sending you 20 following up on Robin'S question here, I wrote a
21 the cakes and then monitor that as a baseline or 21 note last time of that exact point that you had said
22 something to alleviate the concerns of the local 22 that the EPA had tested these materials for
23 residents? 23 pharmaceuticals. There'S a report available and you
24 MR. HECHT: What would be the base 24 were going to submit that report to us.
25 line. 25 MS. RACEY: We can.

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MR. SIMPSON: I just haven't seen it. more general pathways and that kind of thing. We

MS. RACEY: We can either do it as are actually still looking for the more detailed
part of the supplemental or just as a follow up to reports as opposed to this kind of summary reports

the Q and A with the other documents. that we were finding. So we hadn't forgot about

MR. SIMPSON, I would like to see the your request.

report. note here you'll submit that report to us THE CF~IRPERSON, All right.
to review. The reason I'm asking is I would like to Mr. Lynn.

look at it. They probably have risk assessment MR. LYNN: The next comment is with

analyses in there and like you said a baseline of regard to operating procedures to address potential

10 what is expected in the way of pharmaceuticals. 10 problems with power failure and other unanticipated

11 MS. RACEY: Just to give you some 11 events. Additional information was provided to DEP.
12 idea, I mean, the initial things that I saw that 12 We would like to review this further and would like

13 they were assessing, it'S about soil health and does 13 to consider DEP comments before we go further with

14 any pharmaceuticals does like hand soap that's 14 that item.

15 antibacterial, does it change the quality of the 15 Item number 30 is with regard to the

16 bacteria in the soil. Like there'S natural microbes 16 cooling tower. The applicant will provide

17 in the soil chat break things down. 17 additional details as part of the land development

18 And so there hasn't even been an 18 plan. The same with number 31 regarding the

19 inkling of human health issues. Itls about soil 19 proposed chemical storage systems. They did provide

20 health and does it change the microbial population 20 additional information as part of the application to
21 of the soil in any way that's detrimental. That'S 21 DEP. More detailed information should be provided

22 what they've been looking at. 22 as part of the final land development plan and

23 MR. HECHT, I actually did track down 23 should address all safety and building code
24 the study I was thinking of. It didn't appear to 24 requirements associated with proposed chemical
25 have a lot of good useful information in it. It was 25 storage and feed equipment.

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I have number 32, the applicant should does not discharge to the surface water.
provide a detailed geotechnical report for the The applicant provides that the
proposed site/facility. Report shall include an discharge f=om the site will be sampled
analysis of the interaction between the surface periodically. Discharges from the heat recovery
runoff discharged to the Sediment 3asin 2, and the site out falls will be monitored separately from the
Sediment Basin 2 interaction with the prevalent contributing sanitary landfill outfalls.
groundwater aquifers. We recommend the applicant should
The applicant has provided a copy of include provisions that the out falls will be
the N?DES permit application to discharge industrial monitored after every rai~fall of a specified
10 stormwater. In both the introduction narrative and 10 magnitude, a specified minimum time period, or if
11 module 1, anti-degradation supplement narrative, the 11 any dry weather discharge, other than normal,
12 applicant states that the stormwater runoff from the 12 discharge is observed.
13 site will be separated between runoff from the open 13 In addition to the monitoring of
14 areas of the site and runoff which may be discharged 14 surface discharges to Sediment Basin 2, the
15 from the portions of the site related to sludge 15 applicant shall verify Sediment Basin will
16 processing, specifically, the receiving and loading 16 function as an appropriate stormwater management
17 areas of biosolids, residual wastewater and finished 17 control facility, as proposed, provide
18 product. 18 hydrogeologic/geotechnical information that the
19 Runoff that does not meet discharge 19 discharge of stormwater to the no discharge Sediment
20 criteria will be collected and stored for offsite 20 Basin 2 will not negatively impact groundwater and
21 disposal along with the plant process water. 21 to verify the dewatering capabilities of the basin
22 uncontaminated runoff from open areas 22 to be used for stormwater runoff rate and volume
23 will be discharged to the GCSL Sediment Basement 2, 23 mitigation.
24 which is designated Outfall 12 in the sanitary 24 THE CHAIRPERSON: Anybody have any
25 landfill NPDES permit application, even the outfall 25 comments?

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MS. RACEY: Dave, mean, I'm not sure in that tank, and I don't know that. JUSt something
we're prepared to address this. We'll oop back for you to think about.
around to you. That's one of these in-depth ones MR. CATALDO: Understood. We
that we didn't get a chance to appreciate the comment. It's a good comment from a
MR. LYNN: We have some additional wastewater standpoint. We don't anticipate there to
environmental comments with regard to emergency 6 be additional buildup beyond what is reasonable for
contact listing to be provided and also the process our operation. We will have PM practices that we
wastewater characteristics and noted that process inspect the tank. We're providing OSHA compliance
wastewater storage tank will include solid access to the tank so that we can get in there and
10 withdrawal capability or mixing capability. 10 do any cleaning over time. There will maintenance
11 MS. RACEY: Brian, do you want to take 11 activity taking place, but we don't anticipate
12 that? 12 buildup at a concerning level.
13 MR. SIMPSON: Just one comment -- 13 MS. RACEY: Beyond a pumpable level.
14 MR. LYNN: The comment is really 14 MR. C~TALDO, Beyond a pumpable level
15 related to the process wastewater storage tank and 15 as well.
16 solid withdrawal capability and mixing capability. 16 THE C~~IRPERSON, All right.
17 MR. CATALDO: Brian Cataldo. The 17 Mr. Lynn.
18 wastewater storage tank is going to have a pump 18 MR. LYNN: The two additional comments
19 system transfer solid liquid mixture back to the 19 are related to the plan legibility and some
20 hauling vehicles for offsite disposal. There's 20 information on the general information form to DEP.
21 going to be no agitation in the tank, no solid 21 Moving on to zoning. The entrance and
22 separation. 22 exits to material separation facilities shall be

23 MR. FRY, guess what the question 23 located along either arterial or collector road. At
24 was leading to, is there going to be any solid 24 the April 4th planning commission meeting the
25 accumulation that you're going to have to deal with 25 applicant stated that frontage and address along

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Route 5'2 shall be considered as the required road
frontage and not the local access road.
is that they are creating a new lot by subdivision
and the new lot should comply with this requirement.
We defer to the township zoning officer's
But it'S our interpretation of those
Our opinion variance issues and I would simply have you review
those issues. We obviously have reengineered two of
the variance issues that were re-engineerable and
they will appear on the final submission on the

interpretation, but we would like some clarification plan, and the two issues dealing with the road issue

on that. as well as the setback issue are addressed in depth

MR. GOODRICH: Just with respect to with authority and citations to your zoning
the several variance issues. Matthew Goodrich, ordinance and cross-referenced to your SALDQ with

10 solicitor to 5ynagro. With respect to the several 10 consideration to the regulations. So I would ask
11 variance issues that were identified in the zoning 11 that you please review that for purposes of those
12 officer's correspondence of March 20th, and then 12 issues.

13 seemed to be echoed here with respect to these 13 MR. LYNN: Has your response also
14 issues. 14 addressed the -- because I can read it. the more
15 I have prepared a legal letter and 15 than once principle use on the lot?

16 correspondence. have made copies for you all. 16 MR. GOODRICH: This would be the first
17 I'm actually going to submit it to you now. I'll 17 time and principle use, it's actually in the zoning

18 give it to your solicitor and there's 20 copies 18 ordinance, that is contemplated that multiple uses

there. 19 are permitted in this particular zone. It's the one

20 MR. BACKENSTOE, Thank you. Make that 20 zone in the township that it's actually specifically

21 part of the record. 21 provided for that there are multiple uses allowed.

22 MR. GOODRICH: Please make that a part 22 MR. LYNN: Right. But only one of the

23 of the record and please review thac. My belief 23 two uses is listed as a permitted use.

24 would be that the solicitor would respond to that 24 MS. WITMER, I don't think that's
25 probably in writing by the next meeting. 25 correct. Elizabeth Witmer representing Waste

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Management and 5ynagro. We had discussed didn't fully read this, the zoning officer's

this issue, it is actually addressed in the zoning response, but also the noise abatement, I understand

officer letter, and the two uses separately are the noise abatement has been provided as part of the

permitted uses that are listed in that section. applications to DEP, but I don't know that it

think it's 401. addresses the truck backup alarms which would exceed

So we're happy to meet with you, if the 70 decibels permitted at any time in the

you continue to have concerns. That issue was industrial district.

actually considered addressed in the zoning officer MS. WITMER: Yes. So that'S an issue

letter. we'll address -- I think the other thing we didn't

10 MR. GOODRICH, And just to the extent 10 get a chance to address in the opening here, we have

11 that there is overlap between the zoning officer 11 said repeatedly we will do a supplemental

12 letter SCM as well as the new Hanover Township 12 submission. Part of that submission will be the

13 correspondence and the old Hanover Township 13 modifications to the plan in response to the various

14 correspondence, it would be our intention to provide 14 comments we've received to date.

15 to you sort of a reconciled list of open issues 15 We expect to do that submission by the

16 currently that aren't already addressed or have been 16 end of June so that it could be reviewed at the July
17 addressed through the public meeting process 17 meeting. As part of that submission. we'll take

18 through the OEP permitting application. 18 these new comments from Hanover.

19 And we would be providing that to you 19 I do believe that we meet the noise

20 shortly to sort of streamline these issues, because 20 requirements that you reflect here, but we'll just

21 there is overlap and we do want to make sure that we 21 put it in writing and it will also be in the chart

22 are on -- everybody has an active list of open 22 that Mr. Goodrich referenced.

23 issues that have already been satisfied. So we 23 At this point now we have got SCM

24 would ask the opportunity to do that. 24 letters, two Hanover letters, and the zoning officer

25 MR. LYNN: And then -- because 25 letter. We also have the permits which ~ere

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submitted after we got the first zoning officer MS. WITMER: Well, remember this is
letter. So I think the -- the way to do it, we were only one lot and it'S owned by Waste Management.
talking about it this afternoon, is trying to create Waste Management is not going to provide easements
a cross-referencing chart so we're all on the same to itself. There will be two users of the lot who
page and we can all agree on what the open issues are lessees. So the lessees will have the right of

are. use.
THE CHAIRPERSON, Mr. Lynn. But if welre talking about easements
MR. LYNN: Lase cwo commenes I have between the cwo principle the lot, they
under zoning are really related to compliance with won't necessarily be easements, but they will
10 traffic issues and truck movements, which I think 10 certainly in the lease provisions be the right to
11 are something that's going to have to be discussed 11 use parking and things like that.
12 between us and applicant as they move forward with 12 MR. LYNN: I think the purpose of the
13 the land development plan. I don't think that it's 13 easement is more related to the township'S right of
14 anything that's really insurmountable, but we will 14 access to come in and inspect the facilities are
15 have further discussions with them. 15 functioning in accordance with the approved plan.
16 Under subdivision and land development 16 MS. WITMER: Okay. WeIll have to get
17 ordinance. Items 1 through item 12 are all plan 17 back to you on that. I believe that we thought that
18 issues or certifications and things like that, which 18 you already had access -- in fact, I'm sure that you
19 will be addressed with the revised plan submission. 19 already have access to inspect Sediment Basin Number
20 Number 13, easement requirements, 20 2 as part of the landfill approvals.
21 which the applicant has indicated that they will 21 THE CHAIRPERSON: We'll take a close
22 comply with for the stormwater facilities. 22 look at that. We can keep moving forward.
23 MS. WITMER: I'm sorry. We're on 23 MR. LYNN: Items 14 through 20, again,
24 number 13 about easements? 24 are plan requirements that will need to be
25 MR. LYNN, Yes. 25 addressed.

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Item 21, a traffic study shall be the applicant requested compliance with the
provided for all sanitary landfill, recycling, stormwater management review comments be deferred
material separation, composting, refuse-derived fuel until receipt of the LVPC review. The April 13th

or solid waste transfer facilities in accordance review from LVPC indicates the plan is not in
with Section 27-410.5 of the code. compliance with the Bushkill Creek Watershed Act 167

We did cover this in the zoning study.

ordinance discussions regarding traffic studies. We In addition, the NPDES permit

do believe that a traffic study is required for this application we received does not appear to include
based on the review provided. There is some lack of 9 the calculations and worksheets normally associated

10 information for full use of the access road from 10 with a full permit application, so we would look to
11 Route 512 and the in:ormation included on form 11 have those to review in the future.
12 narrative -- form 20 of the narrative associated 12 Items number

13 with municipal and residual waste general permit 13 MS. WITMER: Before we move on, the

14 application. We think the study is appropriate. 14 request we would make, we were waiting for the

15 So with that, you know, the applicant 15 planning commission so we can reconcile planning

16 did note that there was a small percentage of what 16 commission comments with township stormwater

17 their permitted traffic is. We're not sure what the 17 comments. and our engineer would request a meeting.
18 full amount of traffic is on that. We'll look for 18 What he would like to do then, now that we have the

19 additional information on that and discussion. 19 initial set of comments, is sit down and meet with

20 Items 22 through 24, again, are 20 Lehigh Valley Hanover and the engineer, so that we

21 provisions of the ordinance with regard to 21 can address all of your concerns. So we'll be
22 information to be provided. I don't know that we 22 reaching out to you to do that.

23 have to go into any detail on those. 23 THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Mr. Lynn.
24 Under stormwater management, I will 24 MR. LYNN: Items 1 through 5, again,
25 note at the April 4th planning commission meeting 25 are plan requirements, that should be met with a

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subsequent revised plan submission. letter of May 30th, 2018.

Item number 6, again, is a discussion I'm going to open it up to the board

we had based on the environmental concerns with here for questions, if they have any questions.

regard to Sediment Basin 2 and its geotechnical Please use the wireless mic so the people in the

analysis for interaction with groundwater as well as back can hear.

its ability to mitigate stormwater because it is a I'm going to start with a comment.

no discharge basin. Not to be confrontational, but if you're submitting

Item number 7 through 13 are also plan plans that are not clear and clean and legible,
requirements. Actually, most of the rest of them would kick -- if I had it my way, and not to be

10 are plan requirements that can be addressed or are 10 confrontation, I would kick them back. If I get a

11 notations or certain specific technical requirements 11 product that's not the way it's supposed to be, it's

12 with regard to stormwater management calculations 12 going back to the source.

13 that can all be addressed with subsequent revised 13 You know, so make sure if you're going

14 plan submissions. 14 to submit plans, that our professionals can read

15 With that, we have some general 15 them. My hats off to them for trying to work

16 comments mostly related to the zoning officer review 16 through plans that are not fully -- the clarity is

17 and the review by the township solicitor. 17 not there. So, you know, please make sure that on

18 THE CHAIRPERSON: On those comments, 18 any future submission that they can be read.

19 could we hold them for a future time? 19 Moving onward, questions from any of

20 MR. LYNN: Yes. As we get information 20 the board members?

21 on the revised submission and have a chance to 21 MR. SIMPSON: I'll start. Just two

22 review that information, then we'll generate 22 questions. The traffic study, you are going to do a

23 additional comments. 23 study; is that correct? I didn't get a positive.

24 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. So I 24 MS. WITMER: We -- we will provide

25 take it this concludes an overview anyway of your 25 additional traffic information. There is no

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requirement for a full-blown traffic impact study, can understand it. To me it's not acceptable just

but a traffic study is warranted according to your to say, okay, it's 20 percent trucks or 84 or

engineer and so we will retain someone to look at however you're going to break it up into a little

the traffic issues and provide that study. paragraph. It's hard for people to understand that.

MR. SIMPSON: Will you discuss that I just ask that.

with our engineer to at least lay down the The stormwater comment in Sediment

requirements that he has in his mind for a traffic Basin 2, you are going to provide a plan, I assume,

study? from these comments that shows how the stormwater is

MS. WITMER: We already have his to be managed on the site, going to fallout of the

10 comments. But, yes, once we have identified a 10 sky, hit the ground, go into the sediment basin, it

11 professional that we will be using, we expect, as 11 will fill up and show us, like our engineer has

12 with the stormwater, that we will have to sit down 12 asked, that it cannot impact the groundwater.

13 with your engineer to make sure we're on the same 13 I would like to see that on a plan and

14 page. 14 I would like a similar presentation so that all of

15 MR. SIMPSON: Just help me here. What 15 us in the room here can see where the surface water

16 I would like to see is, you know, whatever you guys 16 is going, making sure it doesn't interact with any

17 determine the study to be, to me a study is a study. 17 of the spillage from the trucks and so forth. Or if

18 Probably at a minimum some kind of little plan that 18 it does, however you're going to deal with it.

19 shows the circulation, the trucks coming in, where 19 That's all I have.

20 they're going through the township, where they're 20 MR. KLEINTOP: Am I correct in

21 expected to come from, so we just can understand the 21 concluding that Synagro, Waste Management and

22 full traffic in and out of here, this facility. 22 Plainfield Township may not be on the same page

23 Possibly at the next meeting or future 23 concerning this road issue?

24 meeting, put it up on the screen here so everybody 24 MR. GOODRICH: That'S accurate, yes.

25 can see the flow. All the residents of the township 25 We disagree with the interpretation of the zoning

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officer with respect to the access point entry and the basis for why they moved the structure I guess
exit. We disagree with the zoning officer's and fronted it on Pen Argyl Road. The problem is
interpretation of both the setback issue on a that a material separation facility under the
Detention Basin Number 2. as well as the access township zoning ordinance has other requirements.
point, the entrance to the facility. and that is At 27316 2, subparagraph 2. there's a specific
contained within the legal correspondence with the requirement from material separation facilities
citation to authority and law. which provides as follows: Entrances and exists to
8 MR. KLEINTOP: Are chere any commencs a facility shall be separated and clearly
necessary from Plainfield Township on this issue? designated. Entrances and exists shall each be at
10 MR. BACKENSTOE: Well, if you want to 10 least 30 feet in width and shall be located along
11 discuss it a little bit, Terry, we can do that. 11 either an arterial or collector road.
12 MR. KLEINTOP: I don't want to bring 12 The zoning officer strictly construed
13 something in here that is deferred to a later date. 13 the zoning ordinance. which he has an obligation to
14 MR. BACKENSTOE: It's come up twice. 14 do, has determined that the entrance and exit must
15 Why don't we talk about it a little bit, with in 15 be on an arterial or collector road. And the fact
16 mind that Pete Layman is going to be up next. 16 is, this is not located on an arterial or collector
17 There have been a lot of 17 road.
18 interpretations by the zoning officer and, of 18 When you look at the definition of
19 course, the applicant with regard to the access and 19 street. it's a public or private thoroughfare which
20 entrance. And there is. to say the least. a 20 affords principle means of access to abutting
21 difference of opinion. 21 property. contains a right of way are, including
22 When you take a look at the zoning 22 avenues, places. ways, parkways, lanes. boulevards,
23 ordinance. 27402 principal buildings, every 23 highways, roads. and other thoroughfares. except,
principal building shall be built upon a lot with 24 and this extremely important, except an alley. an
25 frontage upon a public and private street. that's 25 access drive or a driveway.

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Now. because this particular use is a to the definition of street was so important is
permitted use. but has a special criteria attached because an access drive is defined -- an access
to it, and one of the biggest criteria is that it drive is defined under 20 -- 202 of the ordinance as
actually front on an arterial and access an arterial a privately owned. constructed and maintained
and collector street. An arterial street is defined vehicular access from public or private street to
as streets designed primarily to carry medium to four or more off-street parking spaces or at least
7 heavy volume traffic moderately high speeds and one loading space.
8 generally should not provide access to land which What the township zoning officer and
would interfere with the primary traffic functions. manager have determined is that the access road from
10 Arterial streets are those streets which are so 10 512. which is a collector to the Synagro -- proposed
11 designed on the official street classification map. 11 Synagro facility. is an access drive. Therefore. by
12 The access route, and I'll talk about 12 the definition. it does not access either exit or
13 why I believe it's an access route, is not defined 13 entrance on a collector or an arterial road.
14 in the township as an arterial street. 14 Now, the applicant disagrees with
15 Next. a collector street. Streets 15 that. They have arguments that they wish to make.
16 designed to carry a moderate volume of traffic 16 We got apparently a legal memorandum tonight that we
17 between local streets and arterial screecs ac 17 can look ac. And chey may be legitimate argumencs.
18 moderate speeds and provide only limited vehicular 18 They may not be. But I can tell you that the zoning
19 access to abutting properties. Collector streets 19 officer and township manager have a duty to strictly
20 are those streets which are so designated on an 20 construe the zoning ordinance.
21 official street classification map. 21 And right now the zoning ordinance
22 Again. the access road to the landfill 22 says they've got to have frontage on an arterial or
23 is not designated anywhere in the township as a 23 collector road. and they don't. They have frontage
24 collector road. 24 on an access drive.
25 The reason I said that the exception 25 The applicant had previously submitted

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a memorandum which indicated that this was a referred to as a road or collector or an arterial.
collateral road because it somehow joined 512 and It's again referred to as an access drive which is
Pen Argyl Road. And. respectfully, I disagree with excluded from the definition of street.

that, because the access drive ends at Synagro. It The main landfill calls it an access
doesn't connect or interface with Pen Argyl Road. drive, the internal facility submissions access
If i t did, this wouldn't be an issue. If they had drive, the paved internal landfill access drive.
access, an entrance and an exit directly on Pen Again, the GCSL 512 entrance, they call it an
Argyl Road, we would not be sitting here be talking entrance to 512, the motor freight terminal, again,
about this. The issue would be done. calls it an access road. And every plan that has
10 But the fact is, as the zoning officer 10 been submitted, including the Green Knights refers
11 and the manager have interpreted this, they don't 11 to this as an access road.
12 have access on an arterial or collector road. 12 And an access road by definition under
13 I'm certainly, as the solicitor, am 13 our ordinance is not a street. And because it's not
14 permitted to determine as a matter of law that the 14 a street, it can't even be considered a collector or
15 zoning officer's strict interpretation of the 15 an arterial road.

16 ordinance is wrong. 16 So, Terry, in order to answer your.

17 Now, if the planning commission, after 17 question in the first instance, I believe that the

18 study and consideration, wishes to make that 18 zoning officer and the manager have strictly

19 decision, I guess you could try to do that. But at 19 interpreted the zoning ordinance and I certainly

20 this point they simply don't front on a collector or 20 cannot say that they've done that improperly.
21 arterial road. So that's a big issue. 21 That's issue one with the road.
22 You know, one of the other things we 22 Issue two with the road has to do with
23 did do was take a look at really all of the plans 23 the easement agreement. As everybody is aware, back
24 that have been previously submitted for that lot. 24 if March of 1997, the township entered into an
25 And on everyone of them the access road is not 25 easement agreement with Grand Central regarding the

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road upon which people maintain access right now to cease because Grand Central and the landfill will no
the landfill. And what is interesting is that longer exist, and, therefore, it anticipates a
easement agreement, in my opinion, is temporary in reversionary interest, if you will, in the easement
nature, and it anticipates being temporary in area back to the township. At one point this was
nature. the township's nature crail.
At the outset, paragraph 6 of the The township wanted to, you know, work
agreement, the township specifically -- and by the with Grand Central way back in '97, and Grand

way, this agreement was done before any of these Central built an ulterior nature trail because they

planning commission members were on board, before wanted to use this as an access road again. It is

10 any of the supervisors were around. This is a prior 10 not a street. It is not a public street. It's not

11 board, prior engineer, prior solicitor, prior 11 been ordained. It's not a private street. It

12 planning commission. 12 doesn't carrying traffic from one collector or

13 The township in no way intends to 13 arterial to another collector or arterial. It

14 abandon its ownership. So the township under the 14 simply provides access, in this case, to the

15 easement agreement clearly intends to maintain it's 15 landfill and to Synagro.

16 fee simple interest. What the easement does, 16 Of course, there are other Techno-Bloc
17 though, i t gives Grand Central, their agents, 17 and differe~t facilities which also gain access off

18 servants, employees and licensees ingress and 18 of it, but it'S simply not a street, not under the

19 egress. 19 township ordinance.

20 The agreement specifically refers to 20 So we also have. you know, the issue

21 the easement as a haul road for trucks and allows 21 of an easement agreement, which we'll have to talk

22 Grand Central to improve the haul road and they've 22 about with the applicant, because I don't believe

23 done that. 23 the township necessarily feels that Grand Central

24 But the agreement also anticipates in 24 can just automatically have another commercial

25 section 8-A that at some point the easement may 25 entity use its easement.

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So, Terry, to answer your question, they have a right to a variance. They have a right

there are two diverging opinions. The applicant has to use this as a collector or arterial road and they

submitted several memorandum. One back in November have a right to make that argument to the zoning

of last year and one tonight, which we're certainly hearing board, that's what the zoning hearing board

going to look at and we got to consider them. is for, members of the Plainfield Township come to

But on its face, I can t say that the

I the zoning hearing board every month looking for

zoning officer and the manager have misinterpreted zoning relief.

the ordinance. So I think chac's where che zoning

Now, is there relief chat the officer and the manager are with regard to this.
10 applicant could seek? Yes, there is. I guess, 10 don't want to overstep them, but I think that's
11 number one, they can say we simply disagree with 11 where they are and the applicant feels very

12 everything you're saying, and we're not going to go 12 differently.

13 to the zoning hearing board, and if you deny our 13 THE CHAIRPERSON: Terry, you good?

14 plan based on our failure to get a variance we'll 14 MR. KLEINTOP, Yeah, I took the

15 file a land use appeal. I suppose that could be one 15 liberty of reviewing some late 190s minutes, board
16 avenue. 16 of supervisor's minutes. ~~d it's pretty clear in
17 The avenue generally which I see more 17 there that the board of supervisors intended for
18 regularly used would be to challenge our ordinance 18 this to revert back to being a trail.
19 before the zoning hearing board. And what do I mean 19 In fact, I think there's one comment

20 by challenge our ordinance? Well, one, they can 20 in there that even states that they not only wanted
21 indicate that they believe our ordinance is in some 21 to open it up again, they want it to be there for
22 fashion defective and they can make that argument to 22 the opportunity to connect to additional trails from
23 the zoning hearing board. 23 adjoining municipalities at some point in time, if
24 Or, two, they could indicate that 24 an adjoining municipality would be so interested.
25 notwithstanding all the verbiage in the ordinance, 25 And that's the reason I'm trying to get

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clarification on this issue. with them, but, you know, it's a six-page document
MR. BACKENSTOE: Well, Terry, that and, you know, I realize you're getting it for the
would make sense, because you don't always have a first time here tonight. So we do want you to
provision, an easement agreement, which specifically review it and give it the consideration that you
identifies a time where there may be reversionary should.
interest and the easement may come to an end. MR. BACKENSTOE: Thank you.
And, I guess, if at the time they did MR. HECHT: Jim Hecht. On the
this easement, maybe the minutes will reflect this, easement situation, that is something that we, Waste
everybody anticipated that the landfill had a Management and Synagro, is willing and interested in
10 certain life cycle and it would end at some point, 10 talking to the township about. We understand

11 they would not need this and that's why the easement 11 partially at least what your desires are on that and

12 would end. So I'm not surprised if you found 12 we would like to have a discussion on that.

13 minutes to reflect that. 13 MR. BACKENSTOE: I appreciate the

14 MR. GOODRICH: Just to the extent with 14 offer.

15 respect to your comment, Mr. Backenstoe. We'd 15 THE CHAIRPERSON, From the board, any

16 simply ask that you review the legal memorandum that 16 other questions? No other questions? Hearing no
17 we've provided. It set forth our position. We're 17 ocher quescions ac this cime from the board. we will
18 not going to argue it tonight at all. But we will 18 move to Attorney Layman, who has been waiting, I can
19 ask that you look at it and you look at it in the 19 see that, very anxiously
20 context of your ordinance at the very least so that 20 MR. BACKENSTOE: I was going to say
21 you can understand what our argument is and we've 21 patiently.
22 attempted to set it out and lay it out for you as 22 MR. LAYMAN: That's just my nature, I

23 clearly as we possibly can. 23 guess. appreciated the very thorough Hanover

24 If there'S issues that come up over 24 review. I understand it was important to bring that
25 the course of time, we'll be happy to go further 25 up. We have not seen a copy of the May 30th letter
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from Hanover. Obviously it was just generated will be an opportunity to ask questions again
yesterday. I'm assuming it may be on its way to us, relating to those reviews and other submissions; is
but I would simply ask to confirm that we'll get a that correct, Mr. Backenstoe?
copy of it. MR. BACKENSTOE, Yes, absolutely.

MR. BACKENSTOE: Absolutely. MR. LAYMAN: So I will try to keep my

MR. LAYMAN: Mr. Petrucci is shaking pointed -- another housekeeping question. With me
his head yes. I am Peter Layman, and you have my at the microphone, the questions that I have are for
appearance. am for Pen Argyl Borough. With the applicant. I assume somebody will give them a

regard to Mr. Goodrich's six-page legal memorandum, mic, otherwise, it will get crowded up here.
10 I would also ask to receive a copy of that. 10 Let's go back to the issue of the back
11 MR. BACKENSTOE, Of course. 11 haulage of the process water and the condensate and
12 MR. LAYMAN: It sounds like he 12 I guess maybe the wash water, too, because we do
13 submitted 20 copies. There may even be an extra one 13 have some questions about that, whoever would be
14 that can be provided. 14 appropriate from the applicant to answer.
15 MR. BACKENSTOE: We'll see what we can 15 We understand the plan is to haul back
16 do. 16 the same percentage essentially of condensate wash
17 MR. LAYMAN: Lastly, I do have some 17 water to whoever submitted the cake in the same
18 questions. They mostly arise out of the last 18 percentage. But we also understand that, of course,
19 meeting and the presentation at the last meeting. 19 all of this is sort of going to go into one pot. So
20 may have one or two others that have arisen out of 20 it's all going to be the same concentration no
21 the discussion of the Hanover review letter, even 21 matter who it goes back to and we have some of the
22 though I haven't even seen it. 22 same concerns that Hanover raised.
23 Just for housekeeping purposes, it is 23 The different sewer plants are going
24 my understanding that since you're going to go 24 to have different limits as to what they can treat.
25 through the other review letters later, that there 25 They're going to have different volumes as to what

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they can treat. And it does seem logical that some fine. If not, we'll probably try to follow up to
of them may not be able to take it back because they seek commitments.
have strict limits because of where they discharge Are your contracts, in essence, with
to or the size of the plant. whoever you haul from going to require them
So my understanding from what was require them to take the same percentage of
stated is the backup plan, which I heard for the condensate or wastewater back?
first time tonight, is that it would go to Passaic MS. RACEY: Each contract
Valley Wastewater Treatment Plant or Parsippany-Troy will -- either it will say for every load you bring
Hills. Did I write that down right? in of biosolids, you take back a load condensate.
10 MS. RACEY: Those are the two options. 10 So if somebody brings in five a day,
11 They're not the only options. They're the easiest 11 you take back five loads of condensate. Or if they
12 and most -- they're the easiest and most obvious. 12 bring in one load a day, they take back one load of
13 MR. LAYMAN: Okay. How much capacity, 13 condensate. If there'S a particular municipality
14 if you know, do they have to take? 14 that does not want to do that and they want us to
15 MS. R~CEY: I don't know off the top 15 make alternate arrangements, we would not finalize
16 of my head, but PVSC has a lot capacity. 16 that deal until we have contracted for alternate

18 specifically, because that is a concern of ours 18 We can't be left without a place to

19 that -- Pen Argyl's concern deals with the impact of 19 take the condensate. So we, ourselves, would not
20 odor, of dust, of everything else that might affect 20 make a contract that we don't have a return spot for
21 the residents of Pen Argyl who of course are nearby. 21 the wastewater. It may be two separate contracts or
22 So our concern is that there might wind up being 22 it may be in the same contract.
23 orphan condensate that there's no one to go back to. 23 MR. LAYMAN: But, in fact, the way
24 So I'm going to ask some specific 24 this works, if I understand it correctly, is that it
25 questions. If you can answer them specifically, 25 may not even be that municipality's wish as to

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whether they take it back. There may be times when the end of June, Ms. Witmer?
they can't take it back because of their own MS. WITMER: Yes.
regulatory limitations. MR. LAYMAN: There's a second issue
MS. ~~CEY: They're going to know that that from our review of the plan and our expert's
ahead of time. We may have a municipality that says review of the plan, when the cake arrives, it's
they'll take it six months out of the year. going to go into the receiving pits. Itrs then
MR. LAYMAN, When they have high going to be conveyed on a conveyor to the processing
flows? building. And you're nodding your head, so I suess

MS. RACEY: Or when they have I'm right so far.

10 different limits. Typically the limits are stricter 10 We couldn't see that that conveyor was
11 in the summer than they are in the winter. 11 enclosed.
12 MR. LAYMAN: So can you commit or 12 MS. RACEY: It's pump. It's a high
13 provide evidence that there are alternate sites, and 13 solids pump, not a conveyer.
14 you've identified two, and what capacity those sites 14 MR. LAYMAN: I'm sorry that I used the
15 have to day condensate so that we know that this 15 wrong term. Is that going to be enclosed?
16 odorific byproduct is not going to remain on site? 16 MS. RACEY: Yes.
17 MS. RACEY; We would -- I mean, we 17 MR. LAYMAN: We didnrt see that. And
18 would do that before starting operations. We would 18 that's either because it wasn't clear on the plans
19 have to have it for ourselves. 19 or we --
20 MR. LP.YMAN: Will you do it as a 20 MS. RACEY: And it's within I mean,
21 condition to your submission? 21 the pump -- the pumping line, of course, is
22 MS. WITMER: We'll be providing a list 22 enclosed, and then it's also within a chamber, like
23 of conditions that would be acceptable to us with a 23 a concrete chamber and therers access ports in it.
24 supplemental submission. 24 MR. LAYMAN: But let me be sure I
25 MR. LAY~~: And you expect that by 25 understand, because werre talking two different

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buildings, correct? MR. CATALDO: Correct. That line then

MR. CATALDO: There's two primary travels above grade following all federal and state
structures or foundations that we're going to use. rules as applicable and enters the dryer building
There's going to be a receiving unit that's below above grade and it's above grade.
grade and then there's going to be our dryer MR. LAYMAN: Okay. But it is an

building. enclosed pipeline at all points?

MR. LAYMAN: Correct. MR. CATALDO: Correct. No chance for

MR. CATALDO: As part the receiving odor to escape a sealed pipe.

unit there's a pump gallery, also below the grace. MR. LAYMAN: Ird like to go back

10 These high solid pumps are going to be below the 10 to -- let's go back to the Pinellas facility that's

11 grade and the solids transport on the bottom 11 been referred to, and there seemed to be some
12 receiving unit, it's called the ladder system. It's 12 confusion as to whether that was a similar facility

13 basically going to transport the solids out of the 13 being constructed. It's not a similar facility.

14 receiving units and into a hopper that feed the 14 think you said it was similar in location in that it
15 pumps, that then we're pumping in an enclose pipe. 15 was close to a residential subdivision. Do I
16 And we have access to this pipeline up to our feed 16 remember that correctly?
17 point in the dryer system. 17 MS. RACEY: There's two different
18 MR. LAYr~: Just so I'm sure, the 18 things being mixed up. There's another Haarslev
19 pipe line itself is below grade? 19 belt dryer being constructed in Florida, but it's
20 MR. CATALDO: It's in a space, an 20 not in Pinellas County. We have a drying facility

21 occupiable space that is below grade. It's 21 in Pinellas County. Itrs not a belt dryer. It's a

22 concrete. 22 drum dryer. but it does receive material from

23 MS. RACEY: Concrete pump gallery. 23 another plant and it's in a high density housing
24 MR. LAYI4AN: Which is then enclosed 24 area.
25 below grade? 25 MR. LAYMAN: But it is not as you

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pointed out. It's not the same system. remember Germany. What information do you have or
MS. RACEY: It's a sludge drying can you submit dealing with the -- dealing with that
system but using a rotary drum versus belt. particular installation and its effect on the
MR. LAY~AN: Right. So currently neighboring properties?
there's no belt dryer like this in this country. MS. RACEY: I have to follow up on
There's two being constructed, one in Maryland and that. It is, I believe, a privately-owned plant.

one in Jacksonville. It'S nOt a municipal plant.

MS. RACEY, There are plenty of belt MR. HECHT: Again, our engineers went
dryers made in the U.S. just not made by Haarslev. and toured several facilities and they have years of
10 So there's the Griffin dryer -- there are multiple 10 experience. So if there's some information -- I
11 belt dryers throughout the country. 11 mean. we can certainly ask about neighborhood issues
12 MR. LAYMAN: But not this belt dryer. 12 if there'S odors or complaints about the facility.
13 MS. RACEY: No, they're under 13 MR. LAYMAN: Well, if you could give
14 construction. 14 us the location of the installation, we might even
15 MR. LAYMAN: Correct. That was my 15 ask and inquire and determine what those standards
16 understanding. So a couple questions on that. 16 are, and if those standards are comparable
17 Since the only actual installation currently in 17 to -- that are, say, lesser than the standards
18 operation is, as we understand it. in Europe, I 18 required here, if those standards are higher than
19 think specifically in Germany. 19 required here, we would have a better understanding
20 MS. RACEY: There's quite a few in 20 of the performance of that than simply a statement,
21 Europe, yes. There's one that is similar in 21 there'S other belt dryers, there's two under
22 receiving in Germany and not just Germany. There's 22 construction, and there's a completely different
23 other Haarslev belts in Europe. The one we based 23 type of dryer close to a resident subdivision in
24 our design off of and went to is in Germany. 24 Pinellas County.
25 MR. LAYMAN: That's probably why 25 MR. HECHT: Yeah. I mean, we could get

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the names of some plants that you could contact complaint based, no specific standard?
independently. .~d generally speaking, European MR. HECHT: Well, the design of the
standards are at least similar comparable to the plant is designed so that doesn't create odor
u.s. standards. The reason why most technologies nuisances to the neighbor, so that is the standard
come from Europe over into the United States is that we design to. The way we monitor it is if we
because they're usually slightly more advanced than get complaints, which we haven't gotten any, but if
we are. we have complaints, we have an odor complaint log
MR. LAYM.~: Well, of course, and then we would have to investigate it and see
generally is a generalization. But if we got that what the source of the odor would be, so that would
10 specific information, it might be helpful for us to 10 be the process we would go through.
11 understand what the anticipated impact might be. 11 MR. LAYMAN: So there's no odor
12 MS. ~~CEY: Sure. Are there specific 12 monitoring? There's no baseline established to what
13 parameters you want us to try and get or just -- 13 the preexiscing odors were? There'S no monitoring

14 MR. LAYMAN: I will probably yield to 14 at, say, the boundary line to say whether there is

15 Trudy and within the next week or so try to get you 15 odors?
16 more specific standards. 16 MR. HECHT: I don't know the answer to
17 With regard to Pinellas county, which 17 that. .

18 is your facility and which you do have control 18 MS. RACEY: There's a whole wastewater
19 presumably of the information there, a couple 19 treatment plant there. What we don't know off the
20 questions. 20 top of our ~ead. does the wastewater treatment
21 What -- what method, if any, in 21 plant -- I mean, we could inquire.
22 Pinellas County is used to monitor odors? 22 MR. LAYMAN: If you could, that would
23 MS. RACEY: It's really a nuisance 23 be useful. Following up on that, there was a
24 standard. 24 discussion in the April meeting of a standard of
25 MR. LAYMAN: Nuisance standard being 25 five D/T, and that's dilution to threshold. It's

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our understanding that DEP standard no odors non-nuisance level, thatls not my understanding of
perceived at the boundary of the property. Would what the nuisance standard is. I want to make sure
anyone disagree that thatls the sta~dard in the DEP that you're not designing to an inapplicable
regulations? standard.
MS. RACEY: I donlt disagree with MS. RACEY: Let me get back to you in
that. No disagreement. writing and confirm that, but it's my -- our
MR. L~YMAN: You do or don't: interpretation is that no nuisance odors are allowed
MS. RACEY: I don'C disagree wich you. ac che fence line.

MR. h~YMAN: Okay. So I a little MR. LAY~AN: No detectible odors are

10 confused as to why the other standard was even 10 allowed at the fence line is my understanding.
11 mentioned, if it'S not the applicable standard. It 11 MS. RACEY: Basically the same thing.
12 would seem to be a lesser standard, and we want to 12 MR. LAY~~: It would not shock me if
13 make sure you're not designing the plant to a lesser 13 other states have the standard you mentioned.
14 standard that doesn't apply. 14 That'S not the Pennsylvania standard.
15 MS. RACEY: We don't have our -- Tom, 15 MS. RACEY: We'll get back to you in
16 do you want to -- we don't have our odor expert 16 writing.
17 here. But I think the five DfT is a design standard 17 MR. LAYMAN: I have asked you the
18 that means no nuisance. At that level it's a no 18 question. I'm not trying to pin you do~n if your
19 nuisance standard. I don't think we're necessarily 19 expert isn't here. It's always a difficult issue as
20 talking about two different things. 20 to who the heck you bring and what the heck you
21 MR. LAYMAN: I understand you donlt 21 bring, and this is not the last meeting.
22 have your odor expert. If you want a written 22 Same question about the noise level.
23 response, this obviously not -- this is not going to 23 There was reference to a noise level measurement.
24 be the last meeting, so I'm not trying to trick you. 24 It may mean that I am deficient in my note taking,
25 My concern is, if you interpret it as a - - as a 25 within five feet of the dryer building. It wasn't

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clear to me what dryer it was. I assume it was not get much past wie geht's at this point.
this type of dryer because there'S no dryers like One thing I don't think was covered
this in this country. much, but is of concern to us, is the truck weighing
MR. HECHT: It was done on a Haarslev process. You're going to weigh them coming in and
dryer in Germany. weigh them coming out. And we would like a better
MS. RACEY: It was done on a Germany understanding. Presumably the tarp will be on
dryer. coming in, correct, when they're weighed?
MR. LAYMAN: I missed that in my MS. RACEY: And the tarp will be on
notes. Can we get a copy of that study, which I going out.
10 assume you have? 10 MR. LAYMAN: And the tarp will be on
11 MS. RACEY; We requested further 11 when going out. When the trucks are washed, is

12 documentation from Haarslev. They provided us a 12 it -- is that going to be inside or outside?

13 summary. 13 MR. CATALDO: That will occur outside.

14 MR. LAYMAN: And you'll share it when 14 MR. LAYMAN: That'S what I thought.
·5 you receive it because 15 So the truck, after everything is unloaded into the
16 MS. R~C3Y: Sure. 16 hopper, the truck is going to be washed presumably
17 MR. LAYMAN: -- we're obviously 17 uncarped because otherwise you can't wash the

18 interested in determining what the noise levels are. 18 inside?

19 I appreciate the clarification that it was a 19 MR. CATALDO: Correct.

20 Haarslev dryer. But it would be nice to see the 20 MR. LAYMAN: That will be outside, the
21 actual. Hopefully when it'S submitted it won't be 21 wash water will be collected presumably and I gather

22 in German. 22 will go into the same storage facility as the

23 MR. GOODRICH: You don't speak German? 23 condensate?

24 MR. LAYMAN: took four years in high 24 MS. RACEY: No, you're talking about
25 school, but would tell you that probably can't 25 outside. You're talking in the open air.

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MR. LAYMAN: I'm talking about in the have been emptied from the trUCk, we're really not
open air. looking at a huge amount of solids. We're not
MR. CATALDO: As I said, it will be looking at sticky clumps. This has been removed
washed in the open air, the insides of -- I would from the truck. We're really talking about a film.
like to hear your question again so that I can give Majority of the odor is now inside the pit, which is
you a clear follow up. being ventilated.

MR. LAYMAN: Maybe it's getting late We're washing the truck. It's flowing
and maybe I didn't express myself so well. We through our collection, our lined collection area to
weren't quite sure we fully understood the truck a pump station that will pump it to the wastewater
10 wash process, because that could generate odor. We 10 treatment plant -- excuse me, the wastewater storage
11 want to make sure that it'S defined and set forth 11 tank.
12 what you're going to do. 12 MR. LAYMAN: I understand.
13 After the trucks unload, while the 13 understand what you're saying, and I presume trucks
14 carp is off, the trucks are going to be washed. 14 will be waiting in line to be washed.
15 MR. CATALDO: Correct. 15 MR. CATALDO: No, it will be a process
16 MR. LAYMAN: In the open air or inside 16 that happens directly after tipping. And we are not
17 the building? 17 going to be staging trucks for washing. That's a
18 MR. CATALDO: In the open air. 18 process -- itrs a continuous process. It's not

19 MR. LAYMAN: Right. How do you ensure 19 something where things are sitting open for any
20 that there's no -- presumably the trucks having not 20 period of time longer than they need to be.
21 yet been washed inside and out will still be 21 MR. LAYMAN: So I'm asking, and
22 odiferous. How do you minimize the odors during 22 there'S a record here, are you committing that only
23 that wash process? 23 one truck will be outside being washed at a time and
24 MR. CATALDO: The practice that we've 24 the other will be inside waiting to come out and be
25 used is we've found at that point where the solids 25 washed? Yes, Ms. Witmer.

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MS. WITMER: Thank you for your any weekend staging.

comments. And again, we will submit a list of MR. LAYMAN: Okay. So there's no
conditions to which we'll agree at the end of June weekend operation and also no weekend staging?
in writing. MS. RACEY: No, there'S weekend
MR. LAYMAN: But you understand -- operation.
MS. RACEY: I think what we'll do MR. LAYMAN: But not on Sunday?
is -- MS. RACEY: No. The plant runs on

MR. LAYMAN: You understand that's an Sunday off the material that has been received in

issue. the hopper the day before.

10 MS. RACEY: We'll provide you with the 10 MR. LAYMAN: That wasn't my

11 detailed truck wash and way out plan. 11 recollection. But it was late in the evening and my

12 MR. LAYMAN: One thing, and I know 12 recollection might be incorrect.

13 it'S getting late, and I know other people want to 13 MS. RACEY: No. We've always said

14 talk. And know this is not the last time to ask 14 we're running 24-7 from a process standpoint, but

15 questions. I'll just ask one other to be sure. One 15 not from a receiving standpoint.
16 of the things that came up late in the last hearing 16 MR. LAYMAN: So you're stating here on
17 was the fact that you would -- trucks would be -- 17 the record that you're going to operate seven days a

18 because of the operation hours of this facility, 18 week, 24 hours a day?

19 trucks would be sitting and staging, waiting, 19 MS. RACEY: We've always said that.

20 perhaps, over the weekend. Do I recollect that 20 MR. LAYMAN: That's not what I thought
21 correctly? 21 I heard. I will stand corrected. So essentially
22 MS. RACEY: No. no. we're not 22 you're not holding either the trucks or the material

23 receiving any trucks on Sundays at all and we're 23 in the hopper while you shut down for two days?
24 going to be open on Saturday and receive just like 24 MS. RACEY: Correct.
25 Monday through Friday, and there's not going to be 25 MR. LAYMAN: Okay. That's all I have.

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l'd ask that you take note of our request. If However, you're right next to a sewage treatment
they're incorporated in the resubmission, we would plant that'S pretty odiferous? No, it'S not?
certainly like to receive whatever information you MS. RACEY: I don't know the answer to
get from Haarslev, if 1 ' m pronouncing that correct, that, but i f usually when we're located at a
and my German isn't tOO bad, so we can evaluate and plant, if there'S an odor complaint in general for a
try to make sure that if this is approved, that wastewater treatment plant, it's investigated and

there will be the maximum conditions to prevent determined what the source is. And in the event
nuisances. Because as we believe the to~nship has that Pinellas has had any, I'm not sure whether they

pointed out in their review letter, nuisance issues have or not, I have to ask, it'S never been
10 are a very important part of the ordinance. We 10 determined that the dryer was the source.
11 think they certainly, aside from the many other 11 MR. SIMPSON: I mean, just from a
12 important issues, would be a basis if they're not 12 layman, how do you tell? I stand at a sewage
13 addressed for turning this application down. Thank 13 treatment plant and it stinks, how do I know that
14 you very much. 14 it's not coming from your plant as well?
15 THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Before 15 MS. RACEY: If you went inside the
16 we open this up to the public for public questions, 16 dryer building, there are some odors inside the
17 I just want to ask, does the board have any 17 building that are treated, and it has a different
18 questions to follow up? 18 odor characteristic than the wastewater treatment
19 MR. SIMPSON, I just have one. just 19 process. It'S -- itts a different odor compound
20 have one follow-up question from the course of 20 creating the odor. The waste treatment odors are
21 questioning you juSt received. Penelope County? 21 typically sulfur based. A dryer would be more
22 MS. RACEY: Pinellas. 22 ammonia or a hot, high biosolids smell.
23 MR. SIMPSON, If I heard you 23 MR. SIMPSON: Okay. One last question
24 correctly, you've had no complaints. You do keep a 24 or request. You have other plants you've testified
25 log, a~d that log would show no complaints. 25 that you do?

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MS. RACEY: We do. frequency if that's possible. Thank you.

MR. SIMPSON: They're not next to MR. KLEINTOP: Your last truck would
sewage treatment plants or they all are? dump, I assume, close to 6 o'clock on Saturday
MS. RACEY: I'm trying to do a quick afternoon; is that correct?
run-through in my head. MS. RACEY, That would be the latest.
MR. SIMPSON: I mean, if you have one MR. KLEINTOP: That would mean at the
plant that's not next to a sewage treatment plant pace that you process, that there would have to be
that'S similar to this out in, you know -- without a about 600 tons of cake in the hopper in order to
sewage treatment plant around, that the only odors 9 carry you through until 6 O'clock Monday morning

10 you would smell if I walked onto the property, if 10 when the first truck comes in; is that correct?
11 there were any odors, would come from your plant, 11 MS. RACEY: I'm going to give this to
12 and you do keep a log, would you be able to just 12 you.

13 give us the last year log, and if it shows no 13 MR. HECHT: Based on your questions
14 complaints, then fine? 14 last time, ! prepared a summary of that in question

15 MS. RACEY: I mean, Philadelphia would 15 four to show how the material is -- there'S a

16 be the closest thing. It's remote from -- it 16 difference between the transport and the running of
17 doesn'c sit the wastewater treatment plant site 17 the plant because we were following the agreement
18 and sure. 18 that the landfill not to run on Sundays and actually

19 MR. SIMPSON: Yeah. I just would like 19 to generally try to cease receiving macerials in the

20 to see the log. mean, if the log -- you can just 20 afternoon on Saturday.

21 simply answer that we do have a log, but there'S 21 And from that, we had to build

22 absolutely nothing in it because there'S never been 22 the -- a receiving vessel in order to accommodate

23 a complaint and put that on the record for that 23 that, that two different schedules. And so what I
24 facility, if thatts true, or if there have been some 24 have done on question four is I provided how that
25 odor complaints, I would just like to see the 25 works.

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MR. KLEINTOP: Right. Now, my question is that's extremely important with how
question is this, 600 tons is a lot of raw cake. close you are to this quarry, or as it·s called, the
What·s your hopper capacity? sediment pit.
~~. HECHT: If you look at the chart, MR. HECHT: Yes.
it -- the highest level of stored tons peaks at MR. KLEINTOP: Making sure it doesn't
Friday at 500 tons, and the capacity of the facility get into that sediment pit.

is permitted the at 600 and has an actual capacity MR. HECHT: Right. P~d, I mean, if
of 750. So it's designed in order to accommodate we -- if we -- I mean, we will not receive material
the restricted hauling schedule that Waste at the plant if that vessel is full.
10 Management follows in order to eliminate 10 MR. KLEINTOP: If you're at capacity?
11 transportation on Sundays and to shut it off early 11 MR. HECHT: Yes, we will shut down
12 on a Saturday. 12 receiving material.

13 So we're trying to match that same 13 MR. KLEINTOP, Okay. Thank you.
14 traffic pattern in, and then we use the receiving 14 THE CHAIRPERSON, _~ybody else? Okay.
15 vessel as a way to secure enough material to run 15 I have one question. For the first time it came up
16 until next Monday morning. 16 tonight that when the liquid gets backhauled you
17 MR. KLEINTOP, Right. Okay. So 600 17 stated it would always go to the originator. Now
18 tons is very safely secured and kept away from the 18 you're saying it may not and you have alternative
19 weather and the elements and so forth? 19 sources.
20 MR. HECHT: Yes, it has the doors on 20 What is going to be the procedure
21 it, and it has -- the odor control runs the entire 21 if -- or actually probably when, if that third-party
22 24/7. So the head space of the receiving vessel is 22 receiver tests the liquid and finds it to be a hot
23 swept constantly. So that area is 100 percent 23 load or a load that it's not going to accept?
24 screened. 24 What's going to happen in that circumstance? Is it
25 MR. KLEINTOP: The reason for my 25 going to come back here to the township? What'S

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going to be your plan of action for that? yes.

MR. HECHT: You're saying if the INTERESTED CITIZEN: Correct.
backhaul -- couldn't remember exactly what it was. I have done
THE CHAIRPERSON: Backhaul third party a lot of research and a lot of reading, so you're
and they test it and they found out that they are going to have to bear with me.

not going to accept it for whatever they're testing The other thing that I would like to
and it's out of its tolerance range or acceptance get clarification on are the two basins. One that
range to them, what's your plan? is in the front of the proposed plant and one in the
MS. ~~CEY: The super triple backup back. I don't remember what basin is which.

10 overflow would be Dupont Chemical Receiving facility 10 think it·s two and four, but I'm not 100 percent on
11 in South Jersey which takes anything. 11 that.

12 THE CHAIRPERSON: So you have 12 But I was told that one of the basins

13 something in place. 13 has a baseline, the other has not ever had a

14 (A break was taken. 14 baseline test. I am requesting the board to make

15 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Good evening. My 15 sure that that happens because I'm concerned with

16 name is Gerald Land, and everybody calls me Gery. 16 the environment. And even though there'S minimum
17 have a couple comments and I would also like to give 17 evaporation of ~hat produce. i t cou1d contaminate

18 you some information that might be valuable. 18 those water supplies.

19 I understand that biosolids can be 19 Consequently, without these testings

20 tested and are tested for the coffee filtered test, 20 and baselines, you would have no clue of how
21 whether the sludge is acceptable. Meaning if it 21 dangerous this could be, because they're holding
22 comes through the coffee filter, it's unacceptable 22 hundreds and thousands of gallons of water.

23 and gets rejected and this happens a lot, through 23 Second -- first question I really have
24 the United States. 24 is to Synagro, is this product pathogen free?
25 MS. RACEY: It's a paint filter test, 25 MS. RACEY, The product will qualify

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for EPA class A, which is, in essence, meets going to accept sludge anymore, then what would you
pasturization or sterilization. do?
INTERESTED CITIZEN, But not pathogen MS. RACEY: Well, there's more than
free? one landfill in Pennsylvania.
MS. RACEY: I think that's what that INTERESTED CITIZEN: Okay. I would
means, yes, like if milk is pasturized Or like to also comment that -- and make a statement,

sterilized, it means pathogen free. and this is public information that can be found if
INTERESTED CITIZEN: I'll go co your you ask what will kill hep A, a minimum type virus,

dryers now for further clarification. If the dryer but is kind of deadly. It states that the hepatitis

10 is heated up to 185 degrees, is that enough to kill 10 virus A and other viruses are still infectious after

11 a virus? And what happens if that temperature d=ops 11 10 or 20 hours even at temperatures as high as 140

12 below that temperature? 12 degrees.

13 MS. RACEY: We have to constantly 13 The hepatitis A virus can be killed by

14 measure temperatures in order to certify compliance 14 temperatures of 185 degrees or higher. And another
15 in meeting the standards. In the unlikely event, 15 fact, the hep virus can survive for months outside
16 you know, that we had to, you know, cool down a 16 the virus. Even frozen temperatures won't always
17 product that didn't meet that, then it wouldn't be 17 kill the virus.

18 eligible for distribution. 18 That'S why the question in what you

19 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Would that 19 would do with the stuff if it came under that 185

20 product be discarded or reprocessed? 20 degrees. And correct me if I'm wrong, that dryer is

21 MS. RACEY: Yes, it would most likely 21 set for 185 degrees.

22 be discarded like in a landfill. 22 MR. CATALDO: The dryer system has the

23 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Okay. What if I 23 ability to run at 185 degrees.

24 told you I was told that the landfill, ~hen this INTERESTED CITIZEN: I think! was

25 product if this plant comes, that they're not 25 quoted that most of the time average temperature on

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those dryers is 140 degrees. INTERESTED CITIZEN: But my main

MR. CATALDO: The 503 rules have a concern is you're not participating Or the EPA is

time and temperature requirement. not consistent with their rules and those rules were

INTERESTED CITIZEN, Right, I asked if developed back in '88 or '92, I can't remember. So

the product was pathogen free. was told, yes. they're over 25 years old and have to be revised.

It's not pathogen free if it'S unde= 185 degrees for MS. ~~CEY: They have a biannual

any period of time. And if you're telling me -- and review of the regs for sufficiency.

I could actually quote that it says 12 hours at that INTERESTED CITIZEN: Then why are some

185 degrees. That dryer conveyer is less than an of the viruses escaping like, quote, the super bug,

10 hour. 10 which basically infects two million people a year,

11 MS. RACEY: I think - - what I would 11 kills 24,000 people a year?

12 like to propose is rather than, you know 12 MS. R~CEY: I don't think that's from

13 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I'm not trying to 13 biosolids.

14 challenge. 1 ' m just giving you the information. 14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Do those people

15 MS. RACEY: Let us for the next one 15 actually use the bathroom? So then it has to come

16 come back with the detail on that. Again, EPA did 16 into biosolids. If they didn't use the bathroom

17 extensive pathogen testing and set extensive 17 MS. RACEY: Which then goes through a

18 parameters testing for specific viruses. They set 18 wastewater treatment process and either

19 the standards for class A or specifically it's 19 sterilization or pasturization process. Again, I

20 called a process to further reduce pathogens. 20 mean, our workers are in direct contact with this

21 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Reduce? 21 material, you know, and they their health is the

22 MS. RACEY: Specifically reduce 22 same as the health of people who don't work with

23 pathogens which is class B materials and further 23 bi0501ids.

24 reduce pathogens, which is class A which equals 24 If anybody has exposure, it's the

25 pasteurization or sterilization. 25 people that work for our company. I've been here
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for 30 years, and there's never been an instance of MR. PULLER: Tom Puller. That'S a
someone contracting a virus like that from working requirement that'S in the Pennsylvania DEP
with biosolids. application to process a sludge or biosolid. So
INTERESTED CITIZEN, That virus is it's called a Form 43. If you read the
less than two years old, so how could they? I mean, instructions, that is -- that came right out of

it infects in the medical field so that's some other those instructions. So you can use generator

information. knowledge of your waste stream to certify that it'S

My next question or concern is with nonhazardous.
public-owned treatment works, which don't have to be Now, additional testing could be

10 tested, but can be mixed with other biosolids and 10 required by the state. Additional testing could be
11 deemed untestable. I don't see that as an 11 required by Synagro, but that'S in the Pennsylvania
12 advantage. I really feel that that is a major 12 Form 43 instructions.

13 safety issue. Would you like to respond to that 13 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Okay.

14 statement? 14 MS. R~CEY: We would not accept

15 MS. RACEY, don't understand what 15 anything in the facility that hasn't been tested.

16 you're referring to. POTW absolutely has to test 16 We're going to require -- we're going to require it

17 their material. 17 meet acceptance standards.

18 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I think I have a 18 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Those POTWs, like

19 quote from your document, and it'S on page 126 of 19 they're pub:ic works, let me give you a true
20 the general permit. And it basically says, any 20 example, Pen Argyl wastewater, that produces sludge.
21 potential biosolids source not from a POTw will be 21 I understand that comes on a special container, a

22 required to provide a certificate, that to the best 22 special truck. Is that going to be included in your

23 of the generator knowledge, the biosolids material 23 totals for tonnage and reports?
24 generated at the site is not a hazard. It doesn't 24 MS. RACEY: Is what going to be

25 say that it -- about testing. 25 included?

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INTERESTED CITIZEN: The por~ sewage that, you know, this town really didn't know

transfers? what they were going to be doing, that they couldn't

MS. RACEY: Absolutely, yes. get rid of this sludge, and I don't know who it

INTERESTED CITIZEN, I think you belonged to. I'm not saying that it belonged to

answered all my questions, and I would like to thank Synagro. Or if it did belong to Synagro

you. INTERESTED CITIZEN: It did.

THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. The next name INTERESTED CITIZEN, It did belong to

I have on the list is Trudy Johnston. After that I Synagro? What do you know. I really couldn't find

have a Jenny and Robert Laubscher. for sure who it belonged to. You know, 1 1 m sure

10 INTERESTED CITIZEN: It seems to me 10 Synagro isn't going to take the credit for that.

11 that Synagro is already showing that they really 11 But in that article, it was told that

12 don't have that much of an interest in being a good 12 two landfills in Pennsylvania are no longer

13 neighbor in the community and they're really doing 13 accepting sludge because -- no longer accepting

14 the minimum required for anything and not really 14 sludge from New York City, at least, because of odor

15 much more. 15 complaints and violations.

16 Originally they told us that the 16 That should be telling us something

17 vehicles would be enclosed, and now ehey're going eo 17 where we have a chance eo stop this before

18 say that they're JUSt going to be covered with 18 are accepting it. We have a chance to stOP it

19 tarps, and we're really supposed to believe that the 19 before we have this problem and not after we're

20 smell is going to be contained because they tell us 20 already dealing with it.

21 that it will be, but common sense is telling us 21 You know, here we have a company that

22 otherwise. 22 is telling us what we want to hear. They're going

23 In fact, in an April 22nd Morning Call 23 to tell us whatever they think is going to get us to
24 article about an Alabama town that was stuck with 24 say, yeah, okay come on in. You know, they're

25 rotting train cars that were filled with rotting 25 changing the story as it goes along, whatever they

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think is going to work. ~dE CHAIRPERSON, All right. Go

And we have to look at their record in ahead.
the past, which is not very good. We have to look MS. RACEY, So I would like -- I'll
at everything that has happened before and how the give a couple examples, but I'd also like an

story has even changed already with us and look at opportunity to think about that question.
all of the violations that they have already had. INTERESTED CITIZEN, Of course you do.
So we have already seen that there's INTERESTED CITIZEN, Do you have to
already no effort to enclose the trucks. There's think about every question?

really not any effort to enclose the tanks. There INTERESTED CITIZEN: You really don't
10 really isn't any effort to do any of those things. 10 answer very many questions.
11 So can you give us any examples of 11 THE CHAIRPERSON: One of the outlines
12 things where you're not just doing the minimum 12 here was to be courteous. If you can't be
13 that's required? Examples where you're exceeding 13 courteous, you can't ask questions, plain and
14 the requirements and where you're going above and 14 simple. I'm not going to take it from these people.
15 beyond things that you're doing that is going to 15 I'm not going to take it from them. won't even
16 show us that you are going to actually control the 16 take it from the people up here. This is a meeting.
17 odors, things that you didn't have to do as well as 17 It's definitive and we have to comply. Courtesy,
18 ways that you're going to control pathogens that 18 please. You wouldn't let your kids behave like
19 maybe are going to be things that are going to 19 that. Don't behave like kids. Thank you.
20 threaten us, ways that you're going to detect metals 20 Response.
21 that are not required by the government and other 21 MS. RACEY: We are designing our odor
22 things that are going to potentially affect our 22 control above and beyond what would be strictly
23 health? 23 required. We're designing our receiving facility
24 What are you doing that is not 24 above and beyond what would strictly be required.
25 specifically required? I want to hear it. 25 We understand that the most important thing to the

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community is that there aren't nuisance conditions reasons for being here tonight. One is I live in
that affect you. So that is the area that we focus extremely close proximity to the proposed facility.
on exceeding the standards. I actually live on Grand Central Road. And if you
We are going to be here, if we are walk out my front door from here to that wall back
approved for 20 years, and we're part of this there, I'm looking at the current leachate tanks
community. It's not like we can be here and just which don't bother me because I know how they're
say anything we want to get approved. We're going controlled. But I do live close enough to this that
to live here, and we don't we don't want to be it concerns me.
bad neighbors. We want to be good neighbors. We And the second reason is that I have a
10 don't want a bad relationship with the town. We 10 little bit of inside knowledge on the landfill
11 want a good relationship. 11 industry, given that my grandfather, Robert Perin,
12 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So you are going 12 was the founder of GCS and my father, Ronald Perin,

13 to live here locally? 13 the late Ronald Perin, was the president until '95

14 MS. RACEY: Many of our workers are 14 when it was sold.

15 going to live here, yes. It is always our strong 15 So just to give you a little insight

16 preference to hire local and our employees will be 16 on the litmus test that I'm using in my mind, I'm
17 part of this community. 17 going it tell you how GCS started very briefly.
18 INTERESTED CITIZEN: But you're not 18 In the 1960s the local town mayors

19 going to live here? 19 came to visit my grandfather Bobby because they

20 MS. RACEY: No. I already live in 20 desperately needed a place to put their garbage.

21 Maryland. 21 Having already asked several local farmers who

22 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Okay. Thank you 22 turned them down and him being in the excavating
23 very much. 23 business with holes in his ground, they felt that it
24 THE CHAIRPERSON: Lisa Perin. 24 was a good fit. He actually turned them down, he
25 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So I have two 25 didn't want to do it. A little known fact.

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They begged him to cake the garbage something for under a thousand that's decent here
because they had a great need for the local anymore. There's no standard on wages that these
community. Eventually he decided co do it and here truck drivers are going to get paid.

we are today how many years later. How much revenue, if any, will be
So my litmus test here is that whether passed on t the community? The landf~ll via

or not you like the landfill or not. it has provided tipping fees provides a great deal of money to the

hundreds of jobs over the years, a significant community. Yes, mostly to Plainfield 70w~ship.

amount of additional tax revenue and has fulfilled a understand that'S a bane of contention over the
need for this community directly. years. But we do have things like the -- now the

10 When I look at the proposed sludge 10 Slate Belt Regional Police Department, which was

11 plant, and I do -- now I'm a Perin. so there's a 11 originally built with Plainfield funds, a lot of
12 great deal of people who are very surprised that I'm 12 which came from the landfill. That's the reason

13 against it. When I look at the sludge plant, it 13 that they have such a nice police department and the
14 does not pass the litmus test in my mind. Does it 14 reason that is the one that you ended up using.
15 provide enough jobs to outweigh the negative 15 We don't know how much this is going
16 factors? No, not in my mind. 16 to provide to the community. I don't believe there
17 I believe that it was going to provide 17 has been any answer. I do know that it's going to
18 approximately 16 trucking jobs. So let's just 18 benefit Synagro. do know that it's going to

19 discuss that real briefly. I think you used the 19 benefit Waste Management greatly. I do know that

20 phrase, family sustaining wages. 16 jobs that would 20 there'S an awful lot of money being sent here today.

21 provide family sustaining wages. I'd really like to 21 There's attorneys racking up hundreds

22 know what your definition of family sustaining wages 22 of dollars an hour. research and development, people

23 is, because! know what truck drivers make. ~~d if 23 flying in. I'm sure Synagro paid for all of them to
24 you take out the taxes and you consider the 24 drive up or fly in from ~herever they came from.
25 skyrockeeing renes around here, you can't rent 25 They're spending an awful lot of money because ie's

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going to be extremely profitable for them. Is it community absolutely does not want it. If you put

going to be profitable for this community? Not it to a public vote, which! actually believe that

enough to outweigh the negative factors. you should, you already know in your hearts and your

Does it fulfill a need in our minds that the overwhelming vote would be against

community? The answer is no. Our sewer plants are it.

currently able to handle what we process and provide You are here to represent the people

in sewage in this area. We're taking in sewage from of this townShip, and I really hope that you take

other communities. And let's face it, it's probably some of what I'm saying into consideration tonight

the very large cities that cannot process their and take some weight from the fact that I am who

10 sewage fast enough, which is also a great concern. 10 am and I know what I know from family experience.

11 I realize that as far as this goes 11 I'd like to add one more thing, and I

12 tonight, everything is very technical, dust control, 12 know that you had a comment on courtesy, so I'm

13 odor control, there's a lot of things that you have 13 going to try to say this as courteously as possible

14 to consider in approving this. 14 to you, ma'am. I'm sorry, I don't remember your

15 ~~d I do understand that from a 15 name because came in after you introduced

16 technical point, but I would like to point something 16 yourself.

17 out to you. The most important thing you should be 17 I respect how long you've done your

18 considering here is whether or not your community 18 job. I can hear the mUmbling because I sat in the

19 wants this, not whether it passes X, Y, Z zoning and 19 back row at the number of times that you answered I

20 department of environmental protection issues. Does 20 donlt know or I will have to get back to you. And

21 your community want this, should be the number one 21 this is no disrespect. I'm just pointing out that

22 most important question in your mind. 22 it is disconcerting to the people sitting in the

23 Does it provide a service for your 23 audience that if you have 30 years of experience,
24 community? No. Does your community want it? No. 24 you shOUld be able to answer the questions off the
25 Overwhelmingly I know that you're aware that this 25 top of your head or most of them, instead of

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Page 118
continually saying I don't know, I'll have to c~eck.
by the landfill is going to decrease over time after
or I'll get back to you. the landfill closes.
How can you not know off the top 0: But how do you know by the time that
your head how many odor complaints there have been comes that they aren't going to find a~other energy
at a facility that is not near so~ething else source? Because you need to take into consideration
creating a smell?
that the reason that they're spending so much on
You don't really need -- I mean. you attorneys and research and development and spending
can answer that if you want. Hold on, I'll be time here is because it'S really hard to open a new
finished in a second. sludge plane and they're going to find a way to
10 In closing, I would like to add one 10 extend this one via a new energy source because that
11 more thing because I did learn tonight that it 11 will be easier in 20 years than it will be to open
12 supposedly only has a 20-year life span which is 12 another new one. And by then all this will have
13 something new to me. But I would like to point 13 long have been forgotten.
14 something out to you from the Perin point of view 14 Please take those things into
15 because I sat around the family table many nights 15 consideration. This may not be the 20 years that
16 growing up listening to the inside conversations 16 you're expecting it to be. A landfill has a time
17 that were going on when the landfill was always 17 limit. At a certain point it can no longer expand.
18 applying for expansions and here fighting for 18 It has nowhere to go. This will not just be 20
19 expansions. 19 years. and I'm guaranteeing you that tonight, based
20 It is well-known in the private 20 on what I know of expanding landfills.
21 circles inside the landfill industry that it is far 21 And I apologize in advance to my
22 easier co expand a landfill chan ic is to create a 22 cousin Scott who works for Waste Management, him and
23 new one. I would like you to apply that to this 23 I are on opposite ends of the spectrum on this, but
24 here, because you can say that it'S only going to 24 I still love you. ! thank you very muc~ for your
25 have a 20-year life span because tr.e energy produced 25 time.

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If you would like to answer the can't provide waste heat, it's already in place.
questior. that asked you about the number of odor INTERESTED CITIZEN; You're saying
complaints, believe you previously answered that that when the landfill can no longer provide the
you have to check. heat, they're going to cease operacing?
MS. RACEY: Sure. I mean, MR. KLEINTOP: No, they're going to
particularly in a setting like this, you want to be convert over 100 percent to natural gas.
accurate, right? Because you don't to come back and INTERESTED CITIZEN; Then how can it
say, oh, you said this or you said that. And, you be 20 years? They're saying it can only be 20

know, we operate 500 projects across the country. years. In all honesty, it's going to be much longer

10 can't know everything that happened everywhere. Off 10 than that. It'S probably never going to cease.

11 the top of my head the is answer, no, there haven't 11 MR. KLEINTOP, I don't believe they're

12 been any, but I want to check that because I care 12 saying they're going to operate the plant for 20

13 about being accurate. 13 years. They base their re:urn on investment on a

14 INTERESTED CITIZEN, I do. too. 14 plant operating 20 years. Now, they can step in any

15 because I live within a very close distance and 15 time they'd like. I don't believe they were saying

16 have well water and I would like to make sure that 16 they were going to close up shop at the end of 20

17 my children aren't showering and drinking that. .~d 17 years.

18 I thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank 18 MS. RACEY: You're correct. The

19 you. 19 economic analysis for the plan was on a 20-year

20 MR. KLEINTOP; Ms. Perin, for your 20 basis. After chat point we would assess, you know,

21 information, the landfill has been using natural gas 21 is there a business case to stay open going forward.

22 for probably five, six years already. And if you 22 INTERESTED CITIZEN: And the answer,

23 been here earlier, you would hear Synagro ell you 23 as I said, will most likely be, yes, because it will

24 that they plan on already using 16 percent natural 24 be easier to continue the existing facility than it

25 gas. So they're set up to go. When the landfill 25 will be to open a new one. So, therefore, many
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years after the landfill has closed, this will be you -- we wouldn't be here tonight because the

indefinite. You need to keep that in your mind. community is against this project and the

This will likely be indefinite and forever. There application -- the land application of sewer sludge.

will be no ending to it. My next questions are for Synagro. If

THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Duly you're willing to open up at 6 a.m., does that mean

noted. have other people that have signed in that trucks can be -- could be lining up at 5,30, at 5
are anxiously waiting to speak. o'clock or even 4 O'clock?
Tom Carlo. MS. ~~CEY, We are going to comply
INTERESTED CITIZEN: My first question with the same restrictions and requirements that

10 is why? Why does the Green Knight Economic 10 Waste Management has.

11 Development Corp and Waste Management do some good 11 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So that means the
12 for the community with donations, environmental 12 trucks can be there at 4 O'clock in the morning

13 programs, and then turn around and do -- want to 13 waiting?

14 hurt the community by pushing for this crap factory 14 MS. RACEY: I don't think that's

15 to be built? 15 allowed.
16 We all know what the answer is. It's 16 INTERESTED CITIZEN: We have some.

17 money. Waste Management knows the time is running 17 THE CB~IRPERSON: I would imagine it

18 out for the landfill and is looking for a tenant so 18 will be the community's laws and ordinances of

19 they have a permanent cash flow. ?or the Green 19 parking -- of trucks parking, unless they do it

20 Knight Economic Development Corp, why are you taking 20 onsite. It's a good point and something that will

21 a back seat and started hiding? Is it because of 21 have to be discussed. Absolutely.

22 all of negative attention you have been receiving? 22 INTERESTED CITIZEN: At a previous

23 As far as Synagro, why did you say 23 meeting, Vice-Chairman Simpson asked how incoming

24 that you listen to the residents of the co~~unity 24 stuff was tested. Synagro's answer was it'S sent
25 when you really didn't? If you really did listen, 25 out for testing. Then Mr. Simpson asked, what does

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Synagro do with the stuff while they're waiting for when the trucks are washed and they leave the

the results? Synagro's response was we process it. facility, a=e they completely dry on the inside? Is

At the May 3rd dog and pony show in there any way any residual water can be dripping out

Weona Park, I asked two different Synagro reps about of the trucks? Has there been any studies done on
testing. When I asked if every truck was tested, he the effect of property value after a plant was built
answered he didn't think every truck was tested or in a residential area?

sampled. And I also want to ask as far as I

I asked the second rep if -- if the believe it was mentioned about getting updated
test -- if they tested every truck that comes in. regulations, if Synagro believes that there should
10 His answer was, no, that - - that it's tested at the 10 be updated, why did they fight so hard and shoot
11 waste treatment plant before they're loaded into the 11 dow~ House Resolution 60, which would have given the
12 truck. My question is, which is it? 12 state an opportunity to regulate and test for more

13 If we can't get a straight answer 13 safety stuf:?

14 about testing, why should we trust you about 14 would also like to ask for the board

15 anything else that you tell us? 15 that God forbid this does go in, I believe there

16 Next question is why here? If your 16 should be a traffic light put on 512 coming out, as
17 Philly plant is only running at 30 percent capacity, 17 much truck traffic as ehere is, I have had times

18 according to what we were told, again, at the dog 18 where diffe=ent trucks coming in and out of the
19 and penny show on May 3rd at Weona Park, do you need 19 plant I've seen them shoot out in front of people
20 to build one here? Also, what capacity will this 20 because they don't want to wait. Like I said, I
21 one be running at? 21 don't know if there'S going to be a traffic study.
22 Also, if chere is an odor decermined, 22 I believe there should be a traffic light there.
23 who determines who it's from, from Synagro or from 23 THE CB~IRPERSON: PennDOT would be
24 the Waste Management facility? 24 responsible for highway occupancy permit and that
25 And as far as the trucks being washed, 25 good stuff. It's out of our control.

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INTERESTED CITIZEN: Is that something will wait to get in the landfill.

if it does go in that the town or board could ask INTERESTED CITIZEN: There could
PennDOT for? potentially be five trucks at 5:30?
THE CHAIRPERSON, Well, they have to MR. ~~ROSE: They could come on the
by law get a HOP, highway occupancy permit. It property at 5:30. There could be five trucks there.
would be incorporated into what we do. But because INTERESTED CITIZEN, If they get there
it's a state road, it'S controlled by the state. before, what do they do? Do they sit on 512?
INTERESTED CITIZEN; Okay. Thank ycu. MR. HAMROSE: We don't allow them in

THE CHAIRPERSON: .~y response on before 5:30.

10 anything at this point? 10 INTERESTED CITIZEN: You don't allow

11 MS. RACEY: I wasn't clear if he 11 them in, but if they're there, what do they do?

12 was -- cid you want us to respond to each of those? 12 MR. RAMROSE: Our drivers are

13 INTERESTED CITIZEN: If you want. The 13 instructed not to arrive before 5:30. Traffic at

14 last time you guys didn't respond to anything so 14 that time of day is a good time to travel. They

15 THE CHAIRPERSON: We have a lot of 15 generally can time their route to arrive when we

16 people who want to speak yet. If you could just 16 want them to arrive.

17 summarize from memory -- a lot of it -- a lot of 17 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I see the trucks

18 this is stuff we've heard before. 18 in the morning when I go to work and I don't know if

19 MR. HAMROSE: Good evening. My name 19 you addressed this or if you're going to address it
20 is John Hamrose. I work for waste Management. 20 eventually, is there going to be a specific route
21 Todd, you asked about truck arrival time? 21 that they are going to be traveling?

22 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Yes. 22 MR. ~_?;"Po'jROSE: If it is route 512 -- if

23 MR. HAMROSE: We don't have trucks 23 any of our neighbors see any drivers who access our

24 arrive before 5:30 in the morning and our scales 24 site driving poorly, acting unsafely, please let us

25 open at 6. So there'S 30 minutes potential trucks 25 know. Get a truck number, get a time and location

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and relay that to us and we will find out who is MR. HAMROSE: If any of you are out on

driving that truck and we will take the action we the roads and you notice somebody not following this

need to, to make sure they drive the way we all ~ant rule, please get us an identifier off the truck, a

them to drive on our roads. time of day and a location and let us know.

INTERESTED CITIZEN: That's the Waste Our 24-hour response line is well

Management Trucks. Are the sludge trucks going to publicized. Please call that number. relay the

have big Synagro signes on them? details and we will follow up with that driver. We

MR. ~~ROSE: Get us a number and want the drivers following our rules.

location and we'll follow up. INTERESTED CITIZEN: I also have one

10 INTERESTED CITIZEN: You're saying 10 other request from the board that if this does go in

11 512, is that JUSt coming from 33 through Wind Gap, 11 and if it doesn't go in, maybe you guys can set up

12 or are they going to take 512, come over the 12 something where when our complaints for odors, that

13 Portland bridge? 13 not only do we call the DEP, which we really don't

14 MR. HAMROSE: My understanding is the 14 get any response from, that we could also send

15 trucks coming off the highways will come up from 33 15 something to you guys so you can monitor the

16 and Route 512. And if it's a local customer coming 16 complaints.

17 possibly from a local plane. i t would come through 17 THE C~~IRPERSON: I believe you handle

18 local roads. 18 that in the office now if there's a complaint,

19 INTERESTED CITIZEN: You're saying any 19 correct?

20 truck that'S coming up Route 80, and Delaware Water 20 MR. PETRUCCI: Yes.

21 Gap is shut down, which happens enough, they're not 21 THE CF~IRPERSON: If you had called

22 going to cross over the Portland bridge? 22 and talked to someone in our office, it would be

23 MR. ~~ROSE: Our customers are 23 addressed to best of their ability.

24 required to come by Route 512 from 33. 24 MS. DINGLE: That's a good point.

25 INTERESTED CITIZEN, From 33? 25 Does Synagro have any standards for when landowners

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complain, hotlines processing and documentation and questions, please, you know, ones that have signed

logs? up. If we have any time at the end, we'll address

MS. R~CEY, Yes. more open questions. No. Okay. Tyle= Walig.

MS. DINGLE: Would that be passed out INTERESTED CITIZEN, Hello. My

to all the residents and made available? girlfriend and I are actually new homeowners in Pen

MS. RACEY, Yes, we would have all Argyl. We just bought a house that's right off of

that in place, a 1-800 number, odor log, all that the nature trail next to Waste Management. We
would be puc inco place. 8 really love it, and when we -- when we heard about
MS. DINGLE: And would the township be these -- these plans, our -- we just had a couple of
10 able to be part of that communication or 10 concerns regarding that proximity to the residential
11 documentation process? 11 district.
12 MS. RACEY: Sure. We usually work 12 I apologize. ! forgot my notes. But
13 with -- 13 we -- honestly, I think I would like to agree with
14 MS. DINGLE: It would be more direct 14 the members of the community that specifically state
15 to go directly to you to address the problem, rather 15 that overall we're very unsure of this proposal, you
16 than go through the township to you. But at the 16 know. We're concerned about its impacts, you know,
17 same time, if the residents aren't getting any 17 especially with our just starting a home here.
18 responses or they feel its inactive, then they would 18 We're looking forward to having a garden and
19 probably come to the township. But I know a lot of 19 children. Sorry. But thank for your time.

20 other large companies have a complaint-type of 20 THE C~~!RPERSON: Tyler, I'm assuming
21 protocol. 21 that Lori --
22 MS. RACEY: We ~ould have that, yes. 22 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Yes.
23 MS. DINGLE: Thank you. 23 THE CHAIRPERSON, is she here to
24 THE CHAIRPERSON, All right. The 24 make additional comments? I'll do both of you at
25 next -- I have a lot of people that want to ask 25 the same time.

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INTERESTED CITIZEN: My name Lori started getting more complaints now that we're made
Straka. Yes, we do live on Glass Street in the aware that you guys take them so seriously.
neighborhood right adjacent to the nature trail Truthfully, another concern of mine is
running behind Grand Central and a lot of our the environment. And I want some clarification on a
concerns are regarding the environment, the question that was posed by another member of the
investment that we've made into the slate belt, community. know that you mentioned there were
making our first home here and also to the amenity testing and regulations beyond the federal
of the nature trail, because that was a huge draw requirements involving the noise and smell
for us and for the community as well. complaints.
10 guess my first question would be 10 Are you protecting our community
11 regarding the nature trail. Is the plan still 11 against heavy metals in the biosolids beyond what
12 involving trucks crossing that trail? 12 the government regulates? Because heavy metals,
13 MS. RACEY: No, there's no trucks 13 such as thallium, are unregulated by the government.
14 crossing the trail. 14 Are you protecting us from those as well, or are you
15 MR. HECHT: The trucks will be coming 15 simply staying to the ten elements and those levels?
16 up 512, so believe you're on the backside of the 16 MR. HECHT: Well, we regulate them
17 landfill. 17 based on whatever constituents in the sludge that
18 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Yes. 18 are tracked. I will say that I believe that part of
19 MR. HECHT: So they would be comi~g 19 the regulatory scheme is that they set limits on
20 and go:ng up and down 512. 20 major heavy metals and that that is meant to also
21 INTERESTED CITIZEN: We are very close 21 cover other potential contaminants in the material.
22 to 512. I can say with Grand Central's current 22 But we don't -- we don't make up the
23 production, we do hear trucks. We hear the backup 23 regulations and we don't make up our own special
24 sirens and we do get the smell. would not be 24 regulations for what we do.
25 surprised if Grand Central and Waste Management 25 MS. RACEY, just want to also say

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that, I mean, the majority of people that work for current rules and regulations regarding the use of
Synagro, we're environmentalists. That's why we got biosolids may not be the truth. And we, as a
into this field. This project is a great recycling community, need to make sure that ~e are protecting
project. You're taking gas from a landfill, making ourselves to the highest degree.
electric, taking the waste heat from that and, you And I, as a young, like my boyfriend
know, drying biosolids, which we all produce said, first-time homeowner, I have to think about my
together. future family and my future fiscal situation, too,
Society has to manage them, and so because I am going to be facing probably a lower
we're trying to take them and manage them in the home value than when I first started into this
10 highest possibility treatment level that exists 10 because of this proposed plan.
11 today_ We are treating it. There are lower 11 And so what is your response to me
12 standards that are acceptable for recycling 12 then, who just made the biggest investment of my
13 biosolids. We are -- this plant is the highest 13 life into the Slate Belt, what am I getting back out
14 standard that exists today, and then we're making 14 of that from this plant when all I see is a
15 that into an organic fertilizer that actually is a 15 detriment?
16 superior fertilizer to chemically produced 16 MS. RACEY: There is no information
17 fertilizers which have heavy metals in them and no 17 that we've seen in our any of our plants that
18 organics and use fossil fuel to make them. 18 suggest that it would lower home values. This is
19 From an environmental standpoint, this 19 not an open landfill. This is an enclosed building
20 is really a great project. 20 that has completely negative pressure and odor
21 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I think the 21 control, so I wouldn't expect your home value to be
22 concern is that this community. at least, mostly 22 affected at all.
23 disagrees with you and the application of biosolids 23 And from a scientific standpoint,
24 in itself is debatably safe. I kno~ truthfully 24 there are thousands and thousands of studies.
25 there'S a lot of research as well to show that the 25 Before I got in this field, I graduated from Penn

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Page 135 Page 136

State in agriculture, and Penn State has a ton of would like to provide is that, you know, we are a
research on this. Universities all across the world private company doing this work. We work under the
have done it, and there is an overwhelming body of regulatory scheme. The permit applications that we
scientific evidence documenting its safety and it's have will be subject to a public hearing with the

been done for years and years without any detriment. state regulator who we follow. And so the members

You don't have to believe it in of the commission and the general public will

theory. It's in practice and it's been super be -- they'll be an advertisement. They'll be

'Nell I wouldn't work in this if I didn't believe noticed. It will be held here in the community and

it. ~~d I have spent a lot or time researching it people will be able to come.

10 and looking at scientific information. 10 The experts from the Pennsylvania DEP

11 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I understand. 11 will be there, air, water, land, public safety will

12 MS. RACEY: I fertilize my garden that 12 be there to answer questions and take questions.

13 I feed my children with these pellets. That's how 13 So in addition to this public meeting

14 much I believe it. 14 opportunity, there will be an opportunity to talk

15 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I'm sure that you 15 directly with the regulators.

16 do. It is my opinion that there are fallacies in 16 THE CHAIRPERSON, Okay. Thank you.

17 the current research and that the -- the health 17 We are closing in on 10 o'clock and ehere's at least

18 crisis that we, as a community and a country, are 18 a dozen more people that want to speak.

19 facing now can probably be linked to the other 19 Vice-chairman and I were just discussing this issue.

20 changes that we have made as a society involving 20 I think we have an agreement, because we have to

21 waste management, and: would just like the board to 21 really technically seop at 10.

22 understand that we do not want this here. And I 22 Dave, I want your input here to this

23 appreciate your time from the applicants and your 23 existing list. If you're here at the next meeting,

24 answering my question. I am sorry that we disagree. 24 because there will be a next meeting, we'll start

25 MR. HECHT: One other answer that I 25 with your questions so you'll get your time in
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before we do anything. meeting date or at a time that's, you know, within

MR. BAC¥~NSTOE: That's fine. If you the 30 days.
can go later tonight, go later tonight. If there's So in that respect, we'd ask for that
an obligation to the fire company not to go past 10, accommodation and I believe there's an extension out
I guess you should honor that. to AugUSt. We would be asking to corne back every
MR. PETRUCCI, think you should month.

continue if you want to. THE CHAIRPERSON, Okay.

MR. KLEINTOP; Within reason. Give INTERESTED CITIZEN: Howard Kline,

them a shot at it. They're here tonight. Who Lower Mount Bethel Township. Did I hear, I don't
10 knows. 10 know who said it, made the comment that this product
11 THE CHAIRPERSON; We'll go a little 11 is pasturized and/or sterilized?
12 bit longer in order to try to get as many people up 12 MS. RACEY: That's correct.
13 here as possible and quickly as possible. I'm going 13 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Well, let me tell

14 to have to ask you to restrict to a couple minutes 14 you something. I took the DEP course on biosolids
15 each to get as many people out of the dozen that 15 that they give, and never once in those three days
16 still want to speak or potentially dozen that still 16 did I hear the term class A or B being sterilized or
17 want to speak. 17 pasturized, period. They talked about vector,
18 So again, you're going to have to 18 reduction, pathogen reduction, but it's not sterile
19 restrict your time to a couple minutes to make is 19 and it's not pasturized. So you're way off base
20 succinct, please. 20 with that. Okay. That's number one.
21 Howard Kline. 21 Number two, and this is for the
22 MR. GOODRICH; Chairman Levits, just 22 attorney. Is it true that in order to have a
23 as a housekeeping issue, we are going to be 23 nuisance lawsuit you have to file that within one
24 requesting that we be able to return each month 24 year of the -- there's not an unlimited time limit
25 moving forward on the regular planning commission 25 on that?

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MR. BACKENSTOE: You're talking about there are people who have been trying -- we have
a statute of limitations? over a thousand acres of land application of class A
INTERESTED CITIZEN: For a nuisance and class S, and people can't sell their homes.
lawsuit. It's on the documentation for when you
MR. BACKENSTOE: That's a pretty buy a house, they have to mention it and they can't
wide-open question. I will tell you that a tort, a sell it. So it does have an effect.
personal tort, which that may involve, is two years. Last thing, I'm a grower, and I follow
INTERESTED CITIZEN: With the the organic standards. I can't say my product is
application of sludge, the nuisance part of it, organic because I'm not certified organic. And for
10 there's a one-year time limit on it. p~d what 10 them to put on their product that it's organic, let
11 happens is -- and I'm talking about Synagro and 11 me tell you, it will never pass any organic
12 class A sludge, they're real good boys and girls for 12 standards, period. No ifs, ands or buts about it,
13 one year and then after that, all hell breaks loose 13 very deceptive labeling and marketing by their
14 because there's no rules, no regulations with class 14 products. Thank you.
15 A. Put as much as you want as often as you want, as 15 THE Ca~IRPERSON: Okay. Steve
16 frequently as you want. And it'S very deceptive. 16 Demaris. Again, I'm going to reiterate, try to make
>7 M.rt. 2MB!CK; I'm Jack Embick. I'm 17 i t brief. I do have a lot of people that want to

18 special environmental counsel for the planning 18 speak and we are running over.
19 commission. I think what Mr. Kline is referring to 19 INTERESTED CITIZEN: D-E-M-A-R-I-S,
20 is the time in which you have to complain or file a 20 2100 Delabole Road. want to clear some points up.
21 nuisance action against a farming or agricultural 21 They say this thing is not hazardous. I'm going to
22 practice and, yes, that's a one-year period. 22 quote you from 503 regulations. They say it's not
23 INTERESTED CITIZEN: The young couple 23 hazardous or anything. I'm going to quote from the
24 brought up an interesting thing about land values. 24 law, 503 regulations, right? Biosolids is described
25 I can tell you for a fact that in Lower Mount Bethel 25 as a pollutant, right? And under 503 regulations it

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says. pollutant is an organic substance -- an and that it can regrow and that it can enter the
inorganic substance. A combination of organic food chain. They tell me the path that it can take.

substance or inorganic substance or pathogen The law is telling me this.

organic -- organism, excuse me, that after When they say, hey, this is not

discharge. that means after treatment, upon hazardous, that's a bunch of bull, the law is

exposure, ingested, inhaled, assimilated into the telling me different.

organism either directly or from the environment or AS a matter of fact, they're saying
indirectly by ingesting through the food chain. theY'~e taking industrial, commercial and domestic

It means chis bio stuE f, the sewage. Under the 503 la~ that regulates this, it

10 chemicals, the pathogens in biosolids. can regrow 10 says it -- under the purpose of it, it says it is

11 and enter the food chain. This is stuff they're not 11 only for domestic septic.

12 telling you. 12 Means they exclude commercial,

13 On the basis of the information 13 industrial and domestic and any mixture of that. A

14 available to the administrator, that means the EPA, 14 plant like this would be regulated under the

15 could cause death, disease, behavioral 15 Resource and Recovery Act, not the 503. That

16 abnormalities, cancer, genetic mutations, 16 Resource and Recovery Act would regulate this from

17 psychological malfunctions, including malfunction of 17 cradle to grave. So if they're taking other than
18 the reproduction organs, physical deformities in 18 domestic se~age, they're not in compliance with the
19 either organisms or offspring of that organism. 19 law.

20 That means your children. 20 .~other thing, the location that this

21 So this is the stuff that the 21 is being built on was a backfill quarry, which means

22 law -- the law says. And it's even in the 22 water would drain from this. That means sinkholes

23 beneficial -- Title 25, 271, the beneficial use 23 there, from the shale and stuff falling back into

24 under the PA law states this. So don't tell me that 24 where the water would drain.

25 it's not hazardous when the law tells me that it is 25 I suggest that the environmental study

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include to see if ducts have formed that it doesn't So if you're going to give them permission, you're

affect wells in the area, especially because they going to give them permission to kill you, your wife

wash the trucks in the same area as this backfill and your children and your grandchildren based on

quarry, and contamination could happen, right? the law, because the laws tell me the pathways that

k~d under the law, the problem is with this could take and what it can do. It can kill

this company, is almost every state they've been in, people. It can enter the food chain, and they don't

even when they've been told by EPA, right, that they have a right to put chemicals in my body without my

8' would violate the law doing this, it seems like permission. Thank you.

they'd rather pay tte fine than follow the THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Moore.

10 regulations. 10 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Don Moore.

11 . So that'S what I'm concerned about. 11 M-O-O-R-E. Just La clarify, Mr. Allen, I had asked

12 I'm a cancer survivor. I don't want my kids and my 12 about the truck turns. You made a comment about

13 grandkids to go through what I had to go through. 13 possible stale information that will be part the of

14 And this is known to cause cancer. So it'S not a 14 updates in June?

15 warning. It's it's the law. The law says that 15 MR. ALLEN: That's correct.

16 it would it will cause this, right? 16 INTERESTED CITIZEN: You indicated

~~d if these people are out to do it, 17 last month, i t was very quiet, I don't know how many
18 all you're doing to them is giving the favor the 18 people heard it, that both access points you believe

19 kill people. You're giving them the opportunity to 19 would be bidirectional, vehicles coming in and out.

20 kill people because some of these chemicals don't 20 And I was curious, the trucks coming back from the

21 breakdown in the environment. 21 truck scale that are arriving at the facility to

22 As a matter of fact, some of the 22 unload, is the reason that they might go in either

23 pesticides in the treatment can regrow. As a proven 23 the first -- the first opportunity or the second,

24 fact, your treatment plants, your waste treatment 24 that a truck might be there, say, loading to leave

25 plants was never built to make fertilizer. Never. 25 the facility?

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MR. ALLEN: Yes. made outstanding comments. I mean, everything she

INTERESTED CITIZEN: Because it looks said, I don't think this is green at all. I think

so tight that that could possibly be the case. the fact that they got natural gas on this property,

A question for either Mr. Allen or they extended a pipe two years ago, is the only

solicitor. There's six permitted uses. You said reason they're here. If it weren't for that, they

chat they're both permitted. There was a wouldn't be here.

disagreement and one person thought possibly only At the last review it was established

one, one of the consultants. I see the mature that the sedimentation basin collection runoff has
separation facility, that's you, of course. What's no outflow, except if it overflows and has a

10 the second one? What would Green Knight be 10 connection to groundwater, which also at the second

11 considered in these permitted uses? 11 commission =eview, the first one held at Wind Gap

12 MR. ALLEN: Refuse-derived fueled 12 School, the earth representative agreed that the

13 facility. 13 basin has a connection to the aquifer.

14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: This is for 14 And in my opinion, this is essentially

15 Mr. Hecht. Could the plant run profitable on 100 15 an infiltration basin, which is a type of pond.

16 percent natural gas? 16 Now, the ordinance does say specifically that you

17 MR. HECHT, It could. 17 need to keep all areas within 50 feet of banks of a

18 INTERESTED CITIZEN: It could. Thank 18 pond as open space. And I know there'S

19 you. 19 disagreement, and I know you filed a legal

20 MR. HECHT: I mean, it could or it 20 document -- a brief tonight of sorts, arguing,

21 could not. It depends on what the market is for 21 would assume, that that'S not the case.

22 natural gas and for biosolids. 22 However, let'S assume that the

23 INTERESTED CITIZEN, That's a good 23 township maintains its position that it is a pond.

24 answer. Thank you. 24 Your diagrams -- and I noticed that your current

25 I concur completely with Ms. Perin who 25 site plans for some reason leaves out the existing

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boundary of the sediment pond between the where pond. You're going to be in the pond ~ith all your
you're going to fill it in and the building. parking spaces and your trucks. Each truck that

However, the engineer probably would agree, that passes by the building to load and the ones that

basically the existing boundary pretty much divides unload, maybe they'll go out the other way.

in half in a way that the 12 parking places you We heard a lot about the road and I'm

depict will be within the existing boundary and part not going to say much about it, except this, I

of the access drive that the trucks will go in and didn't real:ze last time, Mr. Allen, I apOlogize,

8 out of. 8 didn't realize that in the current site plan that

Would you agree with that basically? you've moved the boundary from the haul road out to

10 MR. ALLEN: I would. The existing 10 Pen Argyl Road, the extent of Pen Argyl Road in this

11 sediment basin limits are shown on the existing 11 site plan relative to all your earlier ones.

12 INTERESTED CITIZEN, The C05. 12 And so I asked a question about, why

13 MR. ALLEN: But I would agree. 13 don't you just go out to Pen Argyl Road. At the

14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: With my 14 time I was basing that on the fact that there had

15 characterization? 15 been approval for the energy center to go across the

16 MR. ALLEN: The summary, yeah. 16 Grand Central property.
17 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So here's my 17 Now chat I realize this -- I wasn't

18 point. The point is, there'S not supposed to be any 18 allowed to ask questions last time because it wasn't
19 development within a pond, within 50 feet of a pond. 19 Q and A, but tonight it is. My question is, why not
20 They're going to be in the pond. So I'm not going 20 get rid of the trail problem, get rid of the road

21 to phrase this as a question to the applicant. I'm 21 problem, and go right out to Pen Argyl Road?
22 going to make it a statement to the board. 22 MR. ALLEN: My personal opinion on
23 This is much more than a dimensional 23 that point or that question is, the old landfill
24 variance. This is a complete variance. You're not 24 access or entrance used to be from Pen Argyl Road
25 going to within feet of the pond or 10 feet of the 25 pretty much in line with where the Slate Belt Heat

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Recover Center will be. and explained to the residents of this community and
In '96 there was a lot of discussions the surrounding communities why we should stand by
about the trail easement, about the traffic in Pen idly while you welsh on an agreement that was made.

Argyl Borough, and eventually the Grand Central And I have to believe there's several people in this
access road was extended almost a mile up to 512 in room that know what the intent was back in 1997.
order to alleviate the concerns of the ~~d I find this completely objectionable.
municipalities. That's really all I can say on 7 I got another one. There was a letter
chaco from MS. Witmer co Mr. Backenscoe. I've got ie. and
INTERESTED CITIZEN: That's your there's a threat of litigation. In my opinion a
10 answer, okay. Thank you. 10 threat of implied litigation here. And I don't see
11 Okay. Let's move on co comments. 11 any litigation. There was a mention tonight in this
12 I'll be brief. In the there was a reference made 12 document that was filed, kind of alluded to again

13 to minutes, and I have the March 12th, 1997 board of 13 wanting to open up a conversation.

14 supervisor minutes from Plainfield Township. In But my understanding from

15 here the chairman reported that board had worked out 15 Mr. Backenstoe is that the supervisors are not
16 a truck crossing agreement with Grand Central 16 interested in discussing possible litigation.
17 Sanitation in which the township will abandon the 17 They're not interested in a having a conversation

18 use of the upper one-third of the trail until there 18 about moving the trail. Maybe that's changed.
19 is no more landfill. Once the landfill ceases to 19 There'S no indication that it has. We'll see what

20 exist, at that time it would revert back to the 20 happens after they review the current document.

21 township. 21 Okay. So as to not repeat what

22 I'd like to know why in each of one of 22 Ms. Perin said, I'll skip that part and I'll finish

23 meetings, there's been a Grand Central 23 with this. In the documents to date, I haven't had

24 representative and there's been at least one Green 24 a chance to see what Mr. Goodrich filed tonight, but

25 Knight representative, not one of them has gotten up 25 to date there'S been an argument that the haul road

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is a road and they do intend to continue to access. alleged benefits to the community has not been
We've heard tonight, they're not planning to go out quantified. How much does Green Knight expect in
to Pen Argyl Road. They're planning to access off income annually and what will it do with those

of the haul road. funds? We don't know.

And I would like to give a picture to Tax revenue will only come directly to
the board of a gate that's locked across this road, one municipality, ours. But as she pointed out,
quote, road, daily. And I'd like to know what kind it'S not worth it. The positives do not outweigh

8 of a road has a locked gate across it daily. You the negatives. It'S just common sense.
can just pass that down and can speed this up. The closest residents who are not in
10 I'll try not to repeat. I jotted some 10 our township will not see a direct income. They're

11 thoughts do~n that she covered pretty well. There'S 11 going to get the worst of this and I feel bad for

12 already been one and a half year delay. And by the 12 them. Thank you.

13 time t~e regulatory permits are exhausted another 13 TriE CHAIRPERSON: Gail Weber.

14 two years may easily pass. There appears to be 14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Hi. I'm a
15 deceit by 5ynagro to get it project approved. P~y 15 resident of Plainfield Township in the lower part

16 other company would have filed a variance 16 and one of the -- one of the first things I noticed
17 application months ago. Never seen someone refuse 17 is that where the trail is going to be redone. the
18 to file a variance application. have seen a lot 18 nature trail, how will you get access to get into

19 of projects proposed that required them. They come 19 the town of Pen Argyl and how will people in Pen

20 in and they go to the zoning hearing board and said 20 Argyl get access to that trial?

21 we're giving a legal brief, we don't need one. 21 Like it just -- it comes out at Gravel

22 In my opinion, the alleged greenness 22 Hill, and then what would you have to do, get on a

23 of that project is a smokescreen. The communities 23 bicycle and ride on 512 to get into the town? Is
24 don't want it. Our community doesn't want it. And 24 that how it is? That1s a question to you. Will you
25 all the surrounding communities don't want it. The 25 have -- or whoever -- whoever gave me the map where

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the trail is going to be. if there is a spill, doesn't hazmat have to come out

MR. KLEINTOP: Are you acquainted with and take care of that?

the trail going through Grand Central Woods going up MR. HECHT, No.

toward Buss Street? INTERESTED CITIZEN, They don't?

INTERESTED CITIZEN, No. MR. HECHT, No.

MR. KLEINTOP, There's a point which INTERESTED CITIZEN, You also told me

will turn you due east and bring you out basically that -- that a lot of the industries and hospitals

on Pen ~rsyl Road, and that's the portion that's are now pretreating their waste before it goes into

currently closed off. the sewer plants. And I contacted one of the

10 INTERESTED CITIZEN, So that's going 10 hospitals, and they said other than serious

11 to be opened? 11 contaminations they don't pretreat. They do not

12 MR. KLEINTOP: Well, open when is the 12 have a sewage pretreatment plant.

13 question. 13 And I also contacted -- you told me

14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: That was the one that the sludge was going to be coming from

15 thing. And I'll try to be really brief. I went to 15 Bethlehem and Allentown, from their sewage plants.

16 the open house, and Mr. Hecht I spoke with you, and 16 Do you remember telling me that?

17 at the time I was asking you about what you're going 17 MR. HECHT: I -- it is possible that

18 to do with the product. And at that time you told 18 we could be taking material from Bethlehem and

19 me that class A and B are the same product with 19 Allentown.

20 different levels the of pathogens; is that correct? 20 INTERESTED CITIZEN: That'S when I

21 MR. HECET: Basically. Basically 21 asked you, where is this going to be coming from?

22 said that was the major difference 22 You said, this is going to be coming from Bethlehem

23 INTERESTED CITIZEN, And I've 23 and Allentown.

24 confirmed that with other people. I still 24 MR. HECHT: I'm sorry, I didn't say

25 think -- ! thought it was a hazardous waste because 25 that.

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INTERESTED CITIZEN: Yes, you did. there'S some in Europe. I know of a few other ones.

.~d I remember that because I was concerned about I don't want to get into that tonight. But! think

that. I was concerned it was coming from some other the problem with this, this is the wrong place to

place like New Jersey or New York where there might put this.

be more industrial contaminant. I don't agree with the product.

MR. HECHT: That is where it is coming There'S there'S views on both sides. But this

from. just -- I mean, I'm looking here at where these

INTERESTED CITIZEN, But you told me people live and! don't believe any of you would

it was coming from Bethlehem and Allentown. I also live there.

10 checked -- maybe chemical plants have to pretreat, I 10 I think -- I have lived in Pen Argyl

11 understand that. But the one waste treatment plant 11 on the other side, and I've had in the past garbage

12 that I spoke to you, they said unless they see like 12 blow off the dump and land in my development. Years

13 an oil slick on it or something like that, they 13 ago when Perins owned -- I don't know if Ms. Perin

14 don't typically check for other than those ten 14 is here. I was 1 1 m so old that I remember when

15 metals. So whatever is going in there is coming in 15 they said when the dump would be filled they were

16 from who knows where and they check for that. 16 going to make a golf course on top.
17 Now. the problem with this is in a 17 INTERESTED CITIZEN: They told me

18 perfect world, we need -- I agree with you, we need 18 that. They told me that.

19 to process this crap. ~~d the problem is, that 19 INTERESTED CITIZEN, Do you remember

20 there are other systems out there, and in a perfect 20 that? have confirmation. This is so opposite

21 world we would have a septic system that would 21 from a golf course. I mean, if you came in and

22 process this, which ~ould then, in turn, be 22 said, hey, we're Synagro, we're going to put a golf

23 incinerated and have effluent coming out the other 23 course in, would be like, yeah, that'S a good
24 side that would be pure drinking water. 24 idea, right. This was -- I'm sorry.
25 There are other systems. I think 25 Let's see. Brian, you told me at the

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open house that the scrubbers had -- you used a
certain chemical, what was that chemical?
MR. CAT.~DO:
chemical scrubber.
INTERESTED CITIZEN:
MR. CATALDO:
in taking liquid out.
INTERESTED CITIZEN: That's another
It was a two-stage thing. I got paper from my township o~ the amount
of what'S coming in and what's going out, and I see
They're what? additional capacity of 100 tons per day, 400 tons of
The odor control system waste per day based on how much land there was, and

is a two-stage system, so there's an acid stage that here the facility use would permit the applicant to

8 removes ammonia. and then there's a caustic stage treat or dispose of -- how many tons goes in a
that removes hydrogen and sulfate. truck?

10 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I forget what you 10 MS. RACEY: Around 22 to 25.

11 told me what happens to those chemicals then once 11 INTERESTED CITIZEN: What was that
12 they've been used. 12 again?

13 MR. CATALDO: They get absorbed into 13 MS. RACEY: 22 to 25.

14 the water and the water gets removed from the system 14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Tons?
15 when -- as we monitor PH, we monitor the system to 15 MS. ~~CEY: Per trUCk.
16 within limits that we know it operates properly, and 16 INTERESTED CITIZEN: How many trucks
17 we move the water as the PH range changes due to the 17 do you think you'll be transporting a day?
18 treatment. That goes to the wastewater storage tank 18 MR. HECHT: Well, so for the material
19 and hauled off site for disposal. 19 coming in and for the condensate going out, those

20 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So that'S a 20 will be about 18, 19 trucks a day.

21 truck. You're going to have separate trucks taking 21 INTERESTED CITIZEN: 18 or 19.

22 that out? 22 MR. HECHT; On average, we've agreed

23 MR. CAT~LDO; That's part of the 23 not to operate on Sundays and generally Saturday

24 process wastewater stream. 24 afternoons. So on average on a seven-day average,

25 MS. RACEY: That'S part of one truck 25 and then in addition there will be approximately
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five trucks a day of pellets leaving plant with I've already gone into Wind Gap and the traffic is

product. just backed up from one end of Wind Gap all the way

INTERESTED CITIZEN: Only five trucks? into Pen Argyl and I have this vision of the

MS. RACEY: It reduces the volume. trucks -- whoever said that earlier about backing

INTERESTED CITIZEN: The other thing up, I have seen the trucks to the dump already

you told me at the open house is some of the product backing up.

is going to be sold to the cement companies down the Has anybody else or is it just me?

line for incineration for fuel. More people did. And I am just thinking, you really

Now I was confused about that, because need to have a really good traffic plan, because

10 the product you showed me were the little itty-bitty 10 Wind Gap is just horrendous. I don't even go there

11 pellets that go into the fertilizer bag. Is that 11 when there'S like a lot of traffic because you can't

12 what you're going to be selling to the cement 12 get through.

13 companies? 13 And I have this thing, thinking in my

14 MR. HECHT: They use it as -- they 14 mind, that these trucks are going to be getting

15 take the pellets and use it as replacement for seme 15 backed up in traffic here, getting into Pen Argyl

16 of the soft coal that they use instead. So they 16 and then backing up at the entrance and then you're

17 will burn it in lieu of coal. 17 going co have a loe of trucks coming in at che same

18 MS. RACEY; They blend it with coal. 18 time.

19 INTERESTED CITIZEN: They blend it 19 I just think where you want to put

20 with the coal. So you're not going to be adding 20 this isn't good. I don't agree with the product,

21 anything like saw dust? 21 but it'S a money-making business, and if you have,

22 MS. RACEY: No, coal and biosolids. 22 you know, legal rein to do this, so be it. But I

23 INTERESTED CITIZEN: So my other 23 don't see it. I see if it was an ecological thing,

24 question, someone earlier said about the truck 24 I see a different system altogether. I see you

25 traffic. And I have a concern about 512 because 25 being connected to a septic -- or a wastewater
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treatment plant so that when you process it, all able to take in material that meets a certain

those other contaminates that we're all concerned criteria. If there'S a plant that produce biosolids

about are going to get burned up or put in the that have a higher level of pollutants, we're not

cement or disposed of in a safe manners. I think going to be able to take them.

that's the main problem. INTERESTED CITIZEN: By pollutants, do

Those contaminates that you aren't you mean pathogens?

7 testing for and they aren't -- and the sewer plants MS. RACEY, Metals.
aren'C testing for them either. They're only INTERESTED CITIZEN: What about other
testing for the ten, right, that's what you told me? contaminants?

10 Is that right? I'm asking you, is that right? 10 MS. RACEY: Or organics. Like I said,

11 MS. RACEY: There's an annual scan for 11 TCLP there is a list, don't know how long the list

12 what's called TCLP which tests for a whole bunch of 12 is, it'S quite long. It's called TCLP.

13 different parameters. That is required at a less 13 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I do~'t think

14 frequent level because typically these things aren't 14 this is the right place for it. I agree with the

15 found in biosolids. 15 other gentleman that said about the pond. Who was

16 But in order to demonstrate that 16 the man that said about the pond? I have concern

17 there's no contaminants of a hazardous nature, you 17 about that quarry that you've changed into to what

18 have to do what's called a TCLP, usually on an 18 is the runoff, the runoff sedimentatio~ basins?

19 annual basis. If it'S a small plant it might be 19 And all I'm thinking is, okay, we're

20 biannual. That verifies that there aren't any other 20 going to get a torrential rainstorm, you're rinsing

21 constituents or concerns. have never seen a 21 off the trucks, maybe the trucks have co sit there

22 biosolids source fail a TCLP ever. 22 and wait and there'S junk on the out -- I just -- I

23 INTERESTED CITIZEN: I think what 23 don't want to see my township contaminated. don't
24 read, it depends on where it'S coming from. 24 think you'd want it either. I just think it'S just

25 MS. RAC~Y: We're only going to be 25 too close to the homes and it'S not in the right

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place. Thank you. And we think that it -- that the

THE CHAIRPERSON: Brevity is of the application before -- the several before DEP and

utmost importance right now. Tracy Car1uccio. before this planning board should be -- should be

INTERESTED CITIZEN: Tracy Carluccio. declined, and that's based on our concern over

I'm deputy director of the Delaware River Keeper public health in the environment and also to the two

Network. Our office is in Bristol, Pennsylvania. high quality streams that are fed by the surface

7 I'm representing our members here who live in water and the groundwater in this region, Dewalt's
Plainfield and Pen Argyl. Creek and the Little Bus~~ill Creek.
Several questions, but some of them So my first question is related to why
10 will probably be addressed in some of the 10 Synagro is opposed to a 50-foot setback from the
11 supplemental information that has been handed in, so 11 pond. Is it because you don't have enough space?

12 I would like to come back and reserve the ability to 12 Is that the reason?

13 ask questions at the next meeting. 13 Well, if you don't want to answer the

14 But from what I understand, the 14 question, I just want to point out that according to

15 impacts that have been described tonight and at the 15 the definition in the clean streams law, waters of

16 other meetings that I have reviewed and also the 16 the Commonwealth, a pond that is artificial also
17 permit applications, Delaware Water Keeper Network meets che definition of waters of the Commonwealth
18 is very much opposed to the this project. 18 and also under Chapter 105, which is the state water
19 We're concerned about public health 19 stormwater regulations, a body of water is a natural
20 impacts and environment impacts. We basically see 20 or artificial lake, pond, reservoir, swamp, marsh,
21 that this is a huge industrial project being 21 wetland. There's no question that this is not a
22 shoehorned into a SPOt that is just too small for it 22 pond.
23 and too close to where people live where, you know, 23 And then also Synagro itself admitted
24 ball fields are, where fire halls are: It's simply 24 in its application to Pennsylvania DEP for an
25 the wrong facility in the wrong location. 25 individual NPDES stormwater permit application

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that -- THE C~~!RPERSON: We're well past the

TclE CHAIRPERSON, Half a minute. three minutes. I don't mean to be rude.

INTERESTED CITIZEN: I'm sorry? INTERESTED CITIZEN, We think those

THE CB~IRPERSON: Half a minute left. regulations should be checked. Thank you very much
INTERESTED CITIZEN, Half a minute for the time and for bearing with me.

left. That it was also a body of water that THE CHAIRPERSON, Ron Angle.

they that Sediment Basin Number 2 was a body of MR. KLEINTOP, While he's walking up
water. I only have a half a minute left. here, I have a question regarding the pond follow-up

think -- and I have a lot of questions that we're and also sort of skimming through your memo, have
10 not going to be able to address, but ! would like to 10 you done a wetland delineation surveyor any
11 correCt one thing that was said by the applicant_ 11 resource surJeys, because how are you defining it as
12 Dupont has been closed since 2011 as a 12 a pond and you di~:'t file for a 105 to fill that?

13 commercial hazardous waste facility. They are not 13 MS. ~~CEY: It's not a pond. It's a

allowed to accept any offsite waste by law. So for 14 stormwater basin. It's already permitted. It's

15 you to name them as your backup facility is 15 already functioning as stormwater.

16 erroneous. There'S no way they can accept under 16 MS. DINGLE: That's not up for you to
17 current regulations any offsite waste. 17 decided. That'S up to PA DEP to decide.

18 So I think it's pretty outrageous that 18 MS. RACEY, PA DEP testified. It

19 such a big application as this that has gone so far 19 already has a permit. It'S a permitted stormwater

20 has gotten this far without any verification of 20 basin. The function isn't changing. The size of it

21 where the waste would actually go. 21 is changing. It's being further modified. It was

22 Have you even checked with New Jersey, 22 modified to function --

23 New York, Connecticut and the other states that they 23 MS. DINGLE: When was that permitted
24 will allow the wastewater that is not proven to be 24 stormwater as such?

25 the wastewater that comes from the 25 MR. GOODRICH: The correspondence from

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PennDOT was attached in the application and you're going about it.

submissions confirms the stormwater detention Question, Connecticut, New Jersey and

status. New York, would this facility be permitted?

MS. DINGLE: In your memo you refer to MS. RACEY: Yes.

a 2007. INTERESTED CITIZEN: Then why would

MR. GOODRICH, That'S when -- you want to haul all of this stuff over all of these
MS. DINGLE: Delineations are required roads at the expense of miles and miles and miles to
every five years, so that wouldn't be accurate bring it to little old Plainfield Township?

anymore by PA DEP Do you want to know why? You found a

10 MR. GOODRICH: We're still regulated 10 place you can dump it off. The ocher three states

11 by Pennsylvania department as that exact 11 aren't interested in being dumped off. You figure

12 classification. 12 there'S a dump here, you can dump it.

13 THE CHAIRPERSON, All these points are 13 only got two minutes. don't want

14 going to be well addressed and well documented and 14 to go three. Why didn't you go there? Why didnlt

15 well reviewed I'm sure. 15 you put it in central between these three states?

16 Ron. 16 That's where you're bringing it from. You're not

17 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Good evening. 17 bringing it from Allentown and Bethlehem.

18 THE CHAIRPERSON: Three minutes. 18 MS. ~~CEY: There was not an

19 INTERES~ED CITIZEN: If I can't knock 19 equivalent landfill site with waste heat and also

20 it out in two, I'm going horne. 20 the product will be

21 Just a couple of quick questions. 21 INTERESTED CITIZEN: You already

22 l've been on a planning commission in my 22 testified you could do it economically with natural

23 municipality, I've been on the zoning hearing board, 23 gas. Don't run that play. You're dealing with the

24 I've been a supervisor and 300 other agencies I've 24 best here now. You can run it by some other people.

25 been on. respect the job you're doing and the way 25 I had the world try to run it by me. You can still

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do it. And when they stop generating gas, you will it is a fertilizer. How many pounds of pellets
still run this plant with natural gas. Once you got would you need to equal a pound of ten, ten, ten

your foot in the door you're not going anywhere. fertilizer?

~~yway, you say traffic is going to go MS. RACEY, I don't know that off the
on 512. Is this 512 from Wind Gap to the landfill? top of my head.

Why would someone coming from Connecticut, New York INTERESTED CITIZEN, Basically your
and New Jersey whose going to come up 78 to 80 or in pellets have very little nutritional value. Again,
80 to start with, it's the main thoroughfare, w.y I'm not opposed to class A and I allow farmers to
would they not get off at the Portland bridge? You spread it on my field. I'm opposed to class B. I'm
10 think they're stupid and go to Stroudsburg and East 10 not opposed class A. We can't keep filling up
11 Stroudsburg? It's not going to work that way. 11 landfills either. but you need to build this plant
12 As you well know, once you pay your 12 where --

13 road use tax on the road with trucks you can travel 13 THE C~~IRMAN: Ron, your time is up.
14 on any road you want to and 512 from Portland in is 14 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Let me finish up
15 a road you can certainly travel on and you will. 15 real quick. One last item very quickly. You need

16 So this isn't only a problem for 16 to build this plant where you're generating your
17 Plainfield Township and Pen Argyl. This is a 17 product from.
18 problem for Bangor with a downtown with the crooked 18 But the last thing I want to say and I
19 stuff to make the turns. Right now 512 and 611 19 haven't heard it here all night, you want to know
20 PennDOT is doing a study and the 512 traffic from 20 the real culprit here? Itls not really Synagro.
21 Mount Bethel 611 west is already a problem area and 21 The real culprit is Green Knight Waste Energy.
22 you want to bring in more trucks. 22 They're the people who invited these people in.
23 Now, know a little bit about pellets 23 They're the people who opened the door and said come
24 and I know a little bit about fertilizer. Unit for 24 on Synagro, we got some extra stuff here. An agency
25 unit, how many pounds of pellets -- because you said 25 that elects nobody. You see these people, they're

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at the mercy of the board of supervisors. When it?

their term is up, if they have done a really good MR. HECHT: Public procurements is
job, they will get re-elected. conducted by municipalities and public agencies.
Green Knights invited these people We're a private company.
here. They wouldn't be here if they weren't invited INTERESTED CITIZEN, Well, I guess
here by Green Knights. You can beat on these people what I'm getting at is, why is there such an
all you want. But if tomorrow morning Green ~~ights interest to bring it in? Is there local people that
said. you know what, it'S pretty evident people are going to benefit because theylll possibly
don't ~ant this, don't come Synagro. We don't need potentially get construction contracts?
10 you and we don't want you here. Thank you very much 10 MR. HECHT: The reason is, what we've
11 for the opportunity. 11 been giving all along, we have married up an
12 THE CHAIRPERSON: Jane, as the 12 available waste heat source and a need for biosolids
13 supervisor, I'll extend the courtesy for quick 13 processing. It's as simple as that. There'S no
14 comment. 14 other secret procurement motivation.
15 INTEREST CITIZEN: Jane Mellert. I'm 15 INTERESTED CITIZEN: My comment will
16 going to be very short. Most of my comments I'm 16 be biosolids really should be managed where they're
17 going eo put in wrie~ng and then submit them. 17 generated and not shipped state to state. Our
18 just have a couple questions. If the plant is 18 planning commission and board of supervisors don't
19 approved, will the construction of this facility be 19 fully have control. I know the public sometimes
20 publicly bid? 20 thinks that we do. There'S state laws, federal
21 MS. RACEY: Publicly bid. We will 21 laws, zoning laws, et cetera, that had to be met.
22 take bids from multiple contractors, bue we'll 22 The state does not allow
23 select a short list of like three companies to get 23 municipalities to regulate the application of
24 pricing from. 24 biosolids. That'S very unfortunate. You should be
25 INTERESTED CITIZEN: Who determines 25 contacting your state representatives.

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I do have minutes from March 1st, 1989 to revert back.

where Tom Tomko questioned whether or not the Any other comments I do have, and they

township owns the railroad right of way. Mr. Tomko are extensive, I'll submit later. Thank you.

explained that in reviewing the maps submitted to THE CHAIRPERSON: At this point,

DER by Grand Central Sanitation, it shows Grand think as most of you heard, you know, the applicant

Central owning the railroad right of way. said they want to be on pretty much a monthly basis

Mr. Molnar, who was the township at a regular meeting or a specially agreed-upon date
solicitor at the time, explained that the township co continue this

does own the right of way and the township will MR. GOODRICH: Correct.

10 bring this to DER's attention. 10 THE CHAIRPERSON: We're still in

11 Richard Rutt who was a township 11 the -- I don't know where we are in terms of timing,

12 engineer, commented that an engineer certified to 12 but, you know, there's still a long ways to go.

13 the plan, JCS submitted to DER for the expansion and 13 MR. GOODRICH: There's an extension

14 requested the board of supervisors question how an 14 out to August.

15 engineer can certify to an incorrect plan and also 15 THE CHAIRPERSON: Your time extension

16 pointed out that the boundary line is only -- is one 16 is to August. We'll probably be discussing an

17 half mile away from the landfill rather than 500 17 extension to that at the next meeting I think. So

18 feet. 18 at this point I need a motion to table.

19 Jane Mellert made a motion, seconded 19 MR. SIMPSON: I'll make that motion.

20 by Vince Greggo, to have Mr. Molnar contact DER to 20 THE CHAIRPERSON, Second?
21 make them aware that the railroad right of way is 21 MR. KLEINTOP: Seconded.
22 owned by Plainfield Township. 22 THE Ca~IRPERSON: Seconded. All those
23 So the township has always owned the 23 in favor say Aye.
24 railroad right of way and we never expected it to be 24 MR. SIMPSON: Aye.
25 given over to Grand Central forever. It was always 25 MR. KLEINTOP, Aye.

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MS. DINGLE, Aye. CERTIFICATE

MR. BEAVAN: Abstain.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Upon the conclusion I do hereby certify that the

of the meeting, please leave promptly because we aforesaid testimony was taken before me, pursuant to

were supposed to be out of here at 10 o'clock. notice, at the time and place indicated; that said

Obviously we didn't meet that. Do I have a motion deponent was by me duly sworn to tell the truth, and

to adjourn? nothing but the truth; that the testimony of said

deponent was correctly recorded in machine shorthand
MR. SIHPSON: I make that motion.
by me and thereafter transcribed under my
THE CHAIRPERSON: Motion. Do I have a
10 supervision with computer-aided transcription; that
10 second?
11 the deposition is a true and correct record of the
11 MS. DINGLE: I'll second.
12 testimony given by the witness; and that I am
12 THE CHAIRPERSON: All those in favor
13 neither of counsel nor kin to any party in said
13 say Aye.
14 action, nor interested in the outcome thereof.
14 MR. SIMPSON, Aye.
15
15 MR. KLEINTOP, Aye.
16
16 MS. DINGLE, Aye.
17
17 (Hearing adjourned at 10:46 p.m.)
18
18
19 Charleen A. Eyer
19 Registered Professional Reporter
20 20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24

25 25
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Veritext Legal Solulions Veri text Legal Solutions
215-2-11·1000 - 61~3-1-8588 - 302·571-0510 - 202·803·8830 215-2-11-1000 - 61~3-l-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202·803-8830
(guys - hopJ Page 17 {hope - installation) Page 18

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Veritex! Legal Solutions Veritex! Legal Solutions

215·2-l1-IOOO - 610-.B~·8588 - 302·571·0510 - 202·803-8830 215·2-l1-IOOO - 61 ()..43~-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830

Iinstallations - kindj Page 19 (kleintop -legalJ Page 20

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Veritext Legal Solutions Veritext Legal Solutions
215-2~1-IOOO - 610.....B.J-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-2~1-IOOO - 610.....B4-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830
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Verite:..t Legal Solutions Veritext Legal Solutions
215-2-11-1000 - 610--13-+-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-2-11-1000 - 610--13-1-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830

(merchant - needl Page 23 Ineed - okayl Page 24

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--------------
Verite:..t Legal Solutions Veritext Legal Solutions
215-2~1-1000 - 610-B~-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-241-1000 - 610434-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830
lokay - parkingJ Page 25 Iparkways - petruccil Page 26

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Veritexl Legal Solutions Verile:-.;t Legal Solutions

215-241-1000 - 610-434-8588 - 302·571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-241-1000 - 610-434-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830

Iph - possib1yJ Page 27 Ipot - projeclSJ Page 28

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Verite:-.;t Legal Solutions Veri text Legal Solutions

215-241-1000 - 610-434-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-241-1000 - 610--13-1-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830
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-----
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Verite.XI Legal Solutions Verile"'l:1 Legal Solutions

215·2~1-1(X)() - 61Q-....l3+.8588 - 302·571-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-2-11-1000 - 6JQ-....l3~-8588 - 302·571-0510 - 202-803·8830

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-------------~
Veritext Legal Solutions
------
Veri text Legal SOIUlions
215·2.11·1000 - 610-.13.1-8588 - 302·511-0510 - 202-803-8830 215-241-1000 - 610--l3-l-8588 - 302-571-0510 - 202-803-8830
Iway - zoningJ Page 41

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Veri text Legal Solutions

215·241·1000 - 610-43-1-8588 - 302·571-0510 - 202-803-8830