1922 Admission Near East Refugees

ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES
HEARINGS
BEFORE
THE COMMITTEE ON
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
SIXTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS
FOURTH SESSION
ON
H. R. 13269
DECEMBER 15, 16, AND 10, 192"2
Serial 1- C
WASHINGTON
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
1928
• ' 'i .
. • .. * d..
COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
SIXTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS.
ALBERT JOHNSON, Washington, Chairman.

ISAAC SIEGEL, New York. ADOLPH J. SABATH, Ilinois.
J. WILL TAYLOR, Tennessee. JOHN E. RAKER, California.
JOHN C. KLECZKA, Wisconsin. RILEY J. WILSON, Loutslana.
WILLIAM N. VAILE, Colorado. JOHN C. BOX, Texas.
HAYS B. WHITE, Kansas. L. B. RAINEY, Alabama.
GUY L. SHAW, Illinois.
ROBERT S. MALONEY, Masachusetts.
ARTHUR M. FREE, California.
JOHN L. CABLE, Ohio.
P. F. SNYDER, Clrk.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES
CoMMIrrm ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Friday, December 15, 1922.
(The committee this day met, Hon. Albert Johnson, chairman, presiding.)
Present: Congressmen Johnson (chairman), Vaile, White. Maloney, Cable,
Raker, and Box.
TheCHAIMMAN. The committee will be in order.
Gentlemen, we have before us H. R. 13269, a bill presented by Mr. White of
Kansas, a member of this committee, which bill is as follows:
[H. R. 18269, Sixty-seventh Congrss, fourth session.]
A BILL To permit the admission into the United States of refugees from Turkish
territories.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That when used in this act the
term-
(1) "Refugee ' shall meat any person who has fled from his home since
the 1st of October, 1921, and was resident, prior to fleeing from his home in (a)
the territory belonging to Turkey as defined by the treaty of Sevres, or (b)
otLer territory occupied by Turkish military or civil authorities since October,
1920.
(2) "Relative" shall mean a husband, wife, parent, grandparent, brother
or sister, child, grandchild, orphan niece or nephew, aunt or uncle by blood.
(3) The singular shall include the plural and the masculine shall include
the feminine.
SEc. 2. That any person resident within the United States who is either a
citizen of the United States or who has made application for citizenship
may petition the Commissioner General of Immigration for the admission into
the United States of any relative who is a refugee.
SEC. 3. -(1) That the petition for admission must contain: (a) The name
and address of the petitioner; (b) if a citizen, the date and place of his
admission to citizenship, and number of certificate, or if a declarantt the date
and place of his declaration of intention and number of declaration; (c) the
name and address of his employer or the address of his place of business or
occupation if he is not an employee; (d) the degree of relationship of the
person from whom the application is made, and the nama of the place where
such person was resident prior to fleeing front his home, and the place where
such person is seeking shelter at the time the application is made. if known to
him; (e) a statement that he is able to and will support the person for whose
admission the application is made. so that he shall not become a public charge:
(f) a statement that the person for whose admission the application is made is
homeless at the thne of making the application. to his best information and
belief.
(2) The petition must be made under oath before any person having the
power to administer oaths and must ibe supported by any documentary evi-
dence required by regulations issued under this act.
(3) Application may be made in the same petition for admission of iort.
than one person.
SEc. 4. That the petition must be accompanied by the statements of two
responsible citizens of the United States, to whom the petitioner is known, that
to the best of their knowledge and belief the statements made in the petition
2 Al IIS$ FUGEES.
are true and that t pettioner is a responsible pe n, able to support the
refugee or refugees for whdqIvb tubslon [p~ication made. These state-
ments must be attesld In theAsftu y as =ption.
Sac. 5. (1) That dith¢ raeeipt of any petition, h Commissloner General
of Immigration shall ljklflnrtlh Inquiries as tojj m seem necessary, either
in the United States o '49selgn-i~l establish the truth of the
statements made in the p 'df Jo tie anying statements.
(2) Any consul or consular o united States shall iIve such aid
to the Commissioner General of Immigration in carrying out this act as his
other duties permit.
(3) The clerk of any district court in the United States shall give such aid
to the Commlsloner General of Immigration, in carrying out this section, by
making such inquiries or taking such depositions wvithil the judicial district
of his court as his other duties permit.
SEc. 6. That there shall be received as evidence of the residence of a refu-
gee: (a) An extract from any birth registry kept by a civil or ecclesiastical
authority or any official registry certifying to the fact of his residence; (b) the
official statments of an agent of any corporation organized for philanthropic
purposes under the laws of the United States or any State thereof engaged!
in the relief of refugees and affillated with any committee appo!nted by the
President for Near East relief. If the agent is delegated by his organization
for the purpose.
SEc. 7. That if the Commissioner General of Immigration shall find the facts
stated in the petition to be true the refugees named in the petition shall be
admitted to the United States, except that In case of an uncle or aunt by blood
the Commissioner General may, in his discretion, refuse admission if lie be-
lieves that the refugee can be provided for elsewhere than it the United
States.
SEc. 8. That any refugee who has been permitted by the immigration author-
ities of the United States to land temporarily shall be finally admitted if a
petition be filed and approved as provided herein in respect to such alien.
Sae. 9. That refugees whose admission is authorized under this act shall be
admitted, subject to the immigration laws of the United States, exc-pt that
the act approved May 19, 1821, entitled "An act to limit the immigration of
aliens into the United States," shall not he applied to them. and they shall
not be included in estimating the quota established under such act of alien
immigrants of the nationality to which they belong who may be admitted to
the United Statei.
SEc. 10. That the Commissioner General of Immigration. with the approval
of the Secretary of Labor, shall prescribe rules and regulations necessary to
carry this act into effect.
SFe. 11. That any person who knowingly and fraudulently aids in any way
to secure the admission tinder this act of a refugee not properly admissible
under it shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $1,000 or by Imprisonment
for a term of not exceeding one year, or both.
Sc. 12. That this act shall take effect upon its enactment and shall con-
tinue in force till June 30, 1924, but no refugee sha.ll be admitted under Its
terms after June 30, 1924, except those for whose admission petition has been
filed previous to that date.
SEC. 13. That this act may be cited as the Near East refugee act of 1 .02.
Now. Mr. White. do you want to make a statement as to the presentation of
the bill?
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Chairman. I difi propose to call the attention of the commit-
tee to the similarity of the provisions of this act ans compared with those of the
committee bill which passed the House on the 13th day of December, 1920,
and It would take me some little time-not a great length of time-to present
my argument for the bill, and I thought that if it is agreeable to the commit-
tee it might probably be the best procedure for the witnesses who are here to
be heard with regard to the emergency.
Now, Mr. Chairman. I take it that every member of tits committee will have
something to say on this bill. It Is a very important piece of emergency leg-
islation, and it will give rise to a good many questions as to the permanent
policy of the Government; and while the legislation is purely emergency legis-
lation in its character and purpose, it is quite similar to legislation that has
already passed the Houqe since the adoption of our present law, and that It
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
was made necessary on account of the inflexible elements of that law is a

fact which I think is generally recognized. At the same time. if it is agreeable
to the committee, I think it would facilitate the consideration of the bill if
the witnesses would confine their statements to the development of the present
emergency to a statement of the facts. Those can be made a matter of record;
and then we can take up the argument. because it will have to be taken up
subsequently anyway.
The CHAIRMAN. How much evidence do you think is neemsary to show that
a great number of people throughout the world are homeless without detailing
that a large number are homeless ani are refugees in Greece. and contiguous
territory and in Turkey. as outlined in thiq particul" bill. Could not we do
that in five minutes?
Mr. WHITE. I think that may be set forth In a very few short statements.
There can be no doubt in the minolb of the commniuttee aq to the emergency
which inspires the introduction of this bill.
The CHAI . When you referred to a bill which passed the House on
-ome date in 1.020 did you refer to the relief bill?
Mr. WHITM. No. I referred to the law-to the committee bill which passed
the House on that day-which was made the basis for the admission of aliens.
That was known as the relative bill.
The CHAIRMA,. That bill did not apply to refugees,
Mr. WHm No. It is not my purpose to discuss that now. but it will be
discussed In the committee. I know this cowanittee pretty well. and I think
that to a reasonable degree It reflects the sentiment of the country on the
subject of immigration.
The CHArRMUA. That bill died an ignoble death.
Mr. WHrr. But that bill had the approval of this committee. anti my ireol-
lection is that the report waq unanitmous and that it ri-preAented the sentiment
of this committee. and this committee always is in close touch with the senti-
ment of the country.
Mr. Box. I understand that Mr. White. our colleague on the committee, wants
to present this matter fully at a time when there will not be a lot of waiting
witnesses, and I think he Is entitled to that consideration, and therefore I
will move you that we now hear such testimony as we are going to hear and
that we grant him full time to present his bill on a subsequent day. or even
to-day If we have time.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. White. we will hear any witnesses who are
ready.
I have replied to several applicants who wish to appear as witnesses that
we could hold hearings any day on sufficient notice, and. as I have tried
twice already to set dates for these witnesses. I would like to notify all those
who are concerned that as the holidays approach It Is more and more likely
that wo- will have a light attendance, and the point will soon bepreached where.
if they desire hearings of any length. they will have to go over until after the
holidays..
Mr. 1lAXEs. Is that'the plan for the tailors?
The CH.!sR-&A. The tailors were due to-day. We have a telegram, which I
will also put In the record, saying that they want to have a hearing later next
week. and T have notified them that they will he heard after the holidays.
Whom do you desire to he heard first?
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Theodore Tortoll.
STATEMENT OF MR. THEODORE ORTOLI, 11 GRAMERCY PARIK,
NEW YORK CITY.
The CHATTnIAN. How long have you been in the United States. Mr. Bortoli?
Mr. BORTOLI. Three weeks on the 20th of November.
The CHAnImA,. Three weeks?
Mr. BORTOLT. Yes.
The CHATIRMAN. Hov were you admitted?
Mr. BoRTou. On bond for a year.
The CHAIMAN. Where?
Mr. Bon'roLi. In Boston.
The CHAIRMAN. Through Boston?
Mr. BonToL. Yes, sir.
The CnAIRMAN. How nmch wa.s your bond?
',Mr. BORTOLY. Five hundred dollars.
The CHAIRMAN. Why did you take that method?
Mr. B0TOLI. Oh. I was told I would have to make application to remain or
else I would have to go.
The CHAIRusmA. That is. you think that you can renew the bond at the end
of the year?
Mr. BoRTotI. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What kind of a bond was it--cash?
Mr. BORTOLI. No; It was a bond on parole.
The CHAIRMAN. You did not pay any money at all?
Mr. BORTou. No; I do not know how they did it.
The CHAIRMAN. You were admitted on your own recognizance for one year?
3%r. BORTOLI. Yes, sir.
The CHARMAN. Did you then proceed to take out first papers?
Mr. BoTOL. Yes, air; immediately.
The CHAIRMAN. Where?
Mr. BoxrOLT. In Boston.
The CHAIRMAN. To whom did you apply?
Mr. BORToLi. To a district court, to the clerk of the court.
Mr. Box. At Boston?
Mr. Bonori. Yes, sir.
The CIHAIRMA4. So you are temporarily in the United States under bond and
have your first papers?
Mr. BoRTou. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your purpose here?
Mr. BORTOtr. My purpose in coming to America was, first of all, to thank
her for the relief and for the work which she did In Smyrna in the disaster
there, during the massacre and during the fire.
I am from Smyrna myself, and I have suffered. I have lost my mother and
two sisters, and the only relative left to me is a brother, and he is Insane.
Mr. Box. When did he become insane?
Mr. BOaTOLI, He became insane after the disaster. America has been the
only country to he p Smyrna. In 1922 America helped 370,000 refugees and
most of those refugees have been brought to Greece, to Athens and to the
Islands, including the Island of Mityline. which has 45,000 population and over
192,000 refugees,
Now, if help is not brought to these refugees on this island and other
islands they will die. They are dying every day. •
The CHAIRMAN. How many of those refugees on that particular Island does
this bill propose to bring into the United States?
Mr. BonTou. This bill is proposing only to have those refugees brought in
here who have relatives here.
The CHAIRMAN. How many would that be on that one island you spoke of?
Mr. BorTou. It would be very difficult to say, because the bill provides that
the relatives here will have to make application, but in all I do not think
there will be tfore than 10,000 or 15,000.
The CHAIRMAN. On that one Island?
Mr. BORTOL. No, sir; I am speaking of the whole number of refugees, tak-
Ing them altogether.
The CHAIRMAN. What will happen to the rest of them?
Mr. BonTOL. As to the rest of them, I am taking the matter up with dif-
ferent South American countries.
The CHAIRHfAN. Never mind him now. This bill proposes that the person
arrives here and on taking out first papers may then make application to
bring his relatives?
Mr. BoaToLt. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Does not that mean an endless chain proposition?
Mr. BORTOLT. No. It means that those persons who are bringing them here
will have to support them. Those people are established in America and
they will have to guarantee that those refugees will not become a public charge
on the country.
Mr. Johii*so.N. Relatives are pretty likely to do that anyway, are they not?
Mr. BORTOLL 'No, sir: because those persons who come and make application
are subject to penalty for taking false statements. If you will allow me to
say so. I do not believe that under such circumstances as these men are liable
to make tiny falso declarations.
The CIIAN. Whi-re were you born. Mr. Bortoli?
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 5
Mr. BOEIOL. In Smyrna, Asia Minor, of Italian parents, my father and

mother being Italians.
The CHAzRaNz. What is your occupation?
Mr. BORTOLI. Carpet and rug manufacturer.
The CiAIRaNA. How old arp you, Mr'. Bortoll?
Mr. BORTOLn. Twenty-seven years.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you a carpet factory here?
Mr. BORTOLl. NO. I have a depot in England. and if conditions warrant I
will put up a factory in America.
Tit CIIASRIAN. You would not open up a factory while temporarily admitted
under bond, would your
Mr. BORTOLI. May I ask where I could go? America has shown herself
humane. Would you allow lie to go to Italy? I could not go to Italy.
The CHAIRMAN. Why not?
Mr. BORTOL. For the simple reason that the Italians acted very Inhumanly
in Smyrna, and the French did exactly the same thing, and maybe worse.
The C1nAnI, .A. You have told me in private conversation that you thought
there were about 1,100.000 refugees over there',
Mr. BOBTOLL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Do they all think they can get into the United States?
Mr. BORrOLL No. sir; an) for this purpose I s-w the Brazilian ambassador
and the charge d'affaires of Argentina and somne other South American coun-
tries, to explain the situation and a.-k then to show themselves to be helpful
under these circunistunces. Brazil promi.sedi me that sonic refugees would be
taken there. Argentina has taken stme Russian refugees, and she is a Latin
country, and I expect some help from her also. There may be a possibility of
ti wings being settled, but I do not believe things can be settled in Turkey. I
believe what happened in Turkey will happen at Constantinople.
The CHAIRMAN. There will be a lot of Russian refugees?
Mr. BORTOLL The lusslan refugees, I understand, have been taken care of
now, and there are some of them coming to America.
The CHAIRMAN. There are.300,000 refugees in Constantlnople who are In
danger?
Mr. BonTorai. Well. (hose refugees will have to go and settle in Greece.
The CHAIRMAN. They will settle in Greece as time Greeks in Turkey move
out?
Mr. BORTOLL. Absolutely.
Tihe C.I.mnx. That does not help Greece any.
Mr. BoRTOLI. That is what I am asking for-to have a place made in Greece
to allow other refugees to enter, so that there will not be another disaster.
The CHAIRmAN. If these Russian refugees In Constantinople have relatives in
the United States who are either naturalized citizens or have taken out first
papers, would not they want to come oi to America with those relatives, Instead
of stopping In Greece?
Mr. Bonxou. Well, the Russian catastrophe occurred in 1917, and the Rus-
sians have had time to make applications.
The CHAIRMAN. A lot of themI have not been there more than 18 months.
We had hearings on the conditions of the Russians Just about a year ago.
Mr. BosToni. The catastrophe in Smyrna occurred about three months ago.
The CHAIRMAN. The great catastrophe of Constantinople has not occurred, but
it is expected to happen?
Mr. BORTOL. Yes, sir. There Is another point on this, Mr. Chairman. Many
of those refugees have relatives here who are established. Can you allow a
man who is maybe an American citizen to have a sister or a relative who was
In that disaster at Smyrna, who, although they may have money can not find a
room? Those people are on the streets there. They can not find shelter; they
have no place for them. That is the reason why I was trying to have you
help Just the refugees wh. have relatives here.
I have only a human Interest In this. because I have lost everything and I
have nothing further to lose.
Mr. RAKER. But you are going to start a carpet and rug factory here.
Mr. Bo0Toni. Well, I do not know, sir.
Mr. Box. What Investment did you have In your business?
Mr. BoirroL. 5,800.000 Turkish pounds.
Mr. Box. What is the value of that In American money?
Mr. Bonrou. It Is a dollar and a half now, but it was $4.23 before the war.
Everything Is lost. I do not mind about the money. I have lost what nobody
can give back, my relatives.
The CHAIRMAN. This committee can not give them back to you. I am sorry.
Mr. BonTOL!. Certainly not..
The CHAIRMAN. I understood that this man you brought to me the other day.
who owns a hotel in Washington and a residence, to say that he had two sisters
here and he had other sisters and brothers that he wanted to bring here. Why
could not he establish them In any other country that has no restriction or
limitations, in an effort to save their lives?
Mr. BoRToLI. How can they go to places where they have no relatives when
they have lost the rest of their fanridly and they have their brother here?
The CHAIRMAN. Would not they be content in some other country?
Mr. BORTOLL How can they live there? That man has lost his mother. You
understand the position of those two girls-left there alone.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. You are quite sure you want these people in
the United States to have this right the minute they have taken out first
papers?
Mr. BORTOLI. Those, at least, who have been established for two years.
The CHAIRMAN. But the bill does not say two years; it says anyone who has
taken out first papers.
Mr. WHniW. Would it be permissible for me to inquire at this time, Mr.
Chairman?
Mr. JonNsox. Certainly.
Mr. WHITE. It Is perfectly reasonable to assume that those people who are
American citizens, naturalized nlienq, and those who have declared their in-
tention, would have the means to bring their relatives here, and they are
required to give the strictest guaranties for their ability to support them, and
those helpless people coming In here could not give such guaranties.
The CHAIRMAN. The witness himself is here under bond, and he is not
helpless, but a very bright and brilliant nmn. He says he has no relatives ex-
cept an Insane brother. Is your brother temporarily Insane?
Mr. BORTOIT. I could not make any statement as to that. My last tele-
gram was that he had his arm broken In Smyrna.
Mr. WHITE. Was he a victim of this massacre?
Mr. BORTOT... Yes. sir.
The CHAIRMAN. He was not insane before that?
Mr. BORTOLI. No.
The CHAIRMAN. You have reason to hope for his recovery?
Mr. BoRToou. I do not know.
The CHAIRMAN. If he does recover, you would want him admitted to the
United States?
Mr. BoRTori. If I am allowed to stay in the United States, I will start a
factory, and I will need the help of my brother.
The CHAIRMAN. And then you will find that the law says positively that
persons who have had one or more attacks of insanity shall not be admitted.
Mr. BORTOL. I would not ask for any help.
The CHAIRMAN. But others would, and they do all the time. That is the
penalty we pay for laxness in the past and for sympathy In the present.
Mr. BorTouT. But might I ask if a man could see these people starve? They
are dying there in Greece from starvation: they have no food; they have no
clothing; they have no blankets. Their relatives may send them money, but
the money is no good to them. because they can not find a room or anything.
The CHAIRMAN. Did not the same thing exist in Vienna three years ago?
Mr. BORTOLI. No, not exactly.
The CHAIRMAN. Money there was no good. The same thing existed In all
parts of Europe,
Mr. BOaTOLi. The exigency was not the same. It was not so bad in Vienna.
You could live in Vienna as well as In Paris and London.
The CHAIRMAN. How about Poland? Was it not pretty bad in Poland?
Mr. BORTOLT. I. have just recently come from Smyrna, and I knew the
particular situation there.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you think the United States should have admitted all
those refugees who flocked into Danzig?
Mr. BoTOLl. I do not think that is a parallel case.
The CHAIRMAN. I am asking for your own opinion. Do you think that the
United States should have admitted those people, should have admitted those
refugees from Russia and other places that came into Eastern Europe, that came
into Danzig and other seaport%-; do you think those should have been admitted
who have relatives in the Unitd States?
Mr. B0TOLL They did, as a matter of fact, accept a number of those
refugees. %
Mr. JonNso.. The fact that they could only accept a few and that there
were so niany more that they couch not admit led to the passage of the 3 per
cent act. That was right it the face of great distress. The greatest distress
has not happened yet.
Mir. JIORTOJI. Allow m~e to contradict that. I do not suppose there is a
greater distress than the one which has happened in Asia Minor.
TIo CHAIR MAN. Tho great numbers do not mwasure the quantity of distress.
Mr. IBOrTOLL. Certainly; but 1he poilt is what the Germnns did during the
war in Belgium and in northern France was not a fifth part if what the Turks
did in the face of European nations, In Smyrna, and if America had not been
there there would not have been a single one left.
The (7H1AIIAN. Does not the responsibility for that disaster and the burden
for the care of these refugees, In the first place. rest on Greece?
Mr. BORTOLI. Greece is doing everything h her power.
Tih CHAIRIMAN. But the responsibility is with Greece?
.Mfr. iBORTOIJ. No, sir. I can state that the greater responsibility comes to
the European nations.
The CHIAIRMAN. That lets the United States out?
Mr. IOSTOL. Absolutely.
The CHAIRMA*%. The next responsibility after that of Greece was that of
Great Britain, was it not?
Mr. HIORTOLI. I would not make any statement of that kind. The only thing
1 can state Is that France and Italy gave the armies of Kemal the assistance
that made the victory possible, and I am on Italinn.
Tile CH.umAtAN,. You are what?
Mr. IORTOLI. I ant not an Italian now. I am beginning to be an American.
The CHAIRMAN. You are beginning to fie an American when you are admitted
under bond? You were not born in Italy?
Mfr. BORTOLL. I was born in Smyrnn of Italian parents; my father and
mother were italians.
The CHIAIRMA . Were your people residents of Turkey?
Mr. BoRToLy. They were resident in Turkey for the last 40 years, but they
were born in Italy.
The CIHAIRMAN. What was yor citizenship?
Mr. BORTOL. Italiann.
Mr. II.tKr. I will explain the law of thn country. All the biys belong to
the country of their father. The residence of their birth conts for nothing.
according to their law.
Mr. lOuTOL. There is my passport.
Mr. Box. Have you declared your intention to become a citizen,
Mr. BRoToty. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you been in Italy lately?
Mr. BoRToJT. Yes, sir. I landed at Naples, and from Naples I left directly for
America. I arrived in Nnples at 9 o'clock it the morning on the 21st of October,
and I left Immediately for Boston, at 3 o'clock In the afternoon.
The CHAIRMAN. On what vessel?
Mr. BonTOTT. On the steamship Oretie.
The CHAIRMAN. Was anything said to you about the quota law before you
left?
Mr. a-0OROLr. The American consul at Naples was extremely kind, and he
told me the Turkish quota was not full and he thought that In September
there were three hundred and some to be admitted. The steamship company
did not want to give me the tickets to America, but the American consul told
me at Naples, and I was recommended to him by Mr. Horton, the American
consul who Is here In America. I saw him In Washington three or four days
ago. He has known me for many years, and he knows that any statement
I will make Is the truth.
The CHAIRMAN. Had the so-called peaceful revolution occurred in Italy when
you were there?
Mr. RORTOL. The Fasclstl movement, you mean?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. BORTOU. Not then; but It was beginning. Of course the troubles in
Italy began tl.ree years ago.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you think there Is anything to the charge that is now
made, that the Fasclstl Party Is desirous that all anarchists and revolutionists
and radical Itolians shall get out of the new Italy as quickly ds possible
go to the United States if possible.
Mr. BoRToL!. I do not believe so. First of all, I do not think twe Fascisti
movement will long exist.
The CHAuRMAN. But In their efforts to exist, if they are antirevolutionary,
they want the revolutionists sent out of Italy.
Mr. Box. There are two classes of Fascisti. and one faction is fighting against
the other.
Mr. BonToLt. All that killing has been done by the Fascistl with the approval
of the Government, and the Government that needs support from the outside
Is not the Government for me.
The CHAIRMAN. But the Government which Is called upon to support every-
body on the outside Is the Government for me.
Mr. WHITE. That is an extravagant assumption, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAiRM.%X.N. It looks to me that there Is a serious attempt to get this
committee to relieve the conditions of all the refugee people of the world.
Mr. WHITE. I do not care to open up a discussion at this time, because It was
my Intention that the witness should explain the emergency. You have read
ti,a bill, and the guaranties provided for are stronger for the protection of
Aw'vrican society and the American industrial and economical situation than
In any bill that has been recommended and presented to the House. It is
stronger than the present law; and I do say It is extravagant to seek to put
into the mouth of the witness the proposition that we want by this bill to
throw the doors open to the distressed of all the world.
The CHAIRMAN. I know he does not want to do that. He wants us to re-
receive these people first.
Mr. WHITE. These questions of course can be decided in executive session.
The CHAIRMAN. And then we must immediately consider whether there will
be offered at some time on the floor of the House a clause which would ex-
tend the bill Immediately to cover all refugees fleeing from any country on
account of religious or political persecutions, and there are other Important
matters to be discussed.
Mr. WHIT. That car be discussed in executive session. I do not anticipate
that those questions can be discussed here during the giving of testimony. I
would like to have the witness develop in a short statement the circumstances
of the Smyrna massacre. I had handed me by the witness a statement filed
with the Secretary of State, and I would be glad if the witness would set forth
a brief statement of this situation, such as was contained In that paper, and as
the witness remembers the circumstances.
Mr. RAxKER. Before you get to that, I would like to ask one question follow-
Ing up the chairman's view. The chairman asked this witness If the people He
did not want to come to the United States where everybody was protected. here.
is asking for the refugees from Turkey and actually in Greece to come
Of course those men would come as all other refugees have.
Mr. WHIT. Certainly.
Mr. Rimn. Bonar Law In Ensrland. and our friends in France, as Clemenceau take
said, *ant this country to take charge of reparations. So they want us to
the refugees on the one hand and they want us to give the money on the other,
have
and as a matter of fact the whole bunch is after us to give everything we
got. bear analysis at the
Mr. WHIT. The gentleman's statement, of course, will
proper time, but I know what it means for this committee to begiL wrangling,
the testimony and
and with a witness before us I think we should proceed with
we can take up these questions in executive session. in his first appearance be-
The C)HAIRMAN. I think the witness should learn
fore the committee something of the difficulties that surround the attempts
any place.
to perfect and pass a bill designed to relieve certain refugees In Near East
in the
This committee had full knowledge of the desperate situation
more than a year ago, and at that time witnesses told us what was going to
truth. Now, I would be very
occur, and what they told us turned out to be the and proceed to examine the
glad if you would take the chair.. Mr. White,
witness.
Mr. WHITe. That will not be necessary, Mr. Chairman, but I have a few ques-
tions to ask and I want to put before this committee a view of the situation
which will enable member, of this committee to differentiate between the read-
justment growing out of Le results of the Great War and the misery there-
from, which is not confined to any country in the world and could not be con-
fined to any countries which were participants in that great struggle, and which
are not results of racial antagonisms. But this massacre is distinctly racial
and it is only a reptition of what has occurred many times in the past.
Mr. RAKER. IS it not your view that we should first take care of those at
home?
Mr. Werrm Absolutely; but this is a humane question. I wish, Mr. Bortoll,
that you would develop in a very brief statement the circumstances of the
massacre at Smyrna. I ask you this question for the reason that the distress
and the relative degree of it now existing in other countries has been suggested
and called to the attention of myself and of the committee through your ex-
amination by the chairman. Will you just make a staterient of the number
of persons involved, and any other facts in connection %viththis massacre that
you deem pertinent?
Mr. BoRToLi. On the 26th of August the Turks started their advance. The
catastrophe came 15 days after, by the entry of the Turks into Smyrna. They
arrived on the 9th. Half an hour after their entry they took the bishop to the
State House, and the Greek bishop was executed and the execution took place
10 minutes after the appearance of the bishop at the State House.
Mr. WnrrnL Were there any legal proceedings?
Mr. BoaTou. They were very legal. The shooting, as a matter of fact, was by a
squad, but after the shooting was done the body was attached by the neck to
a motor car. They passed a rope around his neck and they fastened the other
end to a motor car and drove it through the Turkish quarters and the body
of the bishop was cut into pieces by the Turkish infuriated populace.
Before the execution, while he was passing in the car, the Turkish populace
wanted to stop the car and with knives and revolvers they surrounded the auto-
mobile, but the Turkish officer said that this man was under arrest, that he had
been sentenced by the national government and it did not belong to the people
or to the officer to punish him ;then the Turks retired, and they took the bishop
on and the execution took place. They also executed Mr. Tzourouchzoglou.
After this execution things were quiet for two days. We hoped, of course, that
nothing else would happen. because in Smyrna we had lived very quietly with
the Turks, and at first we thought these Turks were the kind that we had
known, but we soon found out that those Turks were not the same ones that
we had known, because there is a distinction to be made between the European
Turk and the Turk of the interior.
On the second day they started going through the Armenian quarter, visiting
houses and rapping on doors. After the first visit there was another squad
which passed through firing bullets snd massacring the people and setting fire
to their houses.
Wh'en the Armenians saw these things going on they went to their church,
the church of St. Stephano, and the Turks went immediately after them and
asked them to surrender. The Armenians refused and said, "We will yield to
the Allies, but not to you."
I am sorry to say that the Turks fetched French and Italian officers, and
knowing the friendship of the French and Italians for the Turks the poor
Armenians thought they were safe and they surrendered.
I can not say the exact number, because for a man who has seen the horrors
that I have seen there is no definite recollection; but Immediately there were
about 60 of them killed, and then the Turks immediately entered into the
church and put petroleum in the church and set fire to it, and all the Christians
were burned alive.
Mr. WnrT. The balance of the assembly were burned in.the church?
Mr. BorroL. Absolutely.
Mr. WHrrz. Were any of your immediate family involved in that catastrophe?
Mr. BorTouT. No, sir. We thought the Italians would protect their citizens.
That first day I was very near the church and I saw the fire beginning in the
church and I saw the flames coming out of the church. I am telling you just
what I saw. I heard many more things, but I am just telling you what I saw.
. This was from the 11th to the 18th. Then we come to the date of the 13th.
On the 18th anyone passing on the streets was stopped and robbed. The Turks
10 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
said they wanted gold money, and If the people did not have enough they would
kill them.
Mr. Wuni. Those were Turkish soldiers?
Mr. BORTOLi. Yes, sir. There is one thing to be said; there were irregulars,
but those Irregulars were in the minority, and the regular soldiers were in the
majority, because for one Irregular there were three regulars.
On the 13th, Mr. Horton, the American consul, seeing things going very badly,
sought to unite his colony to help. Mr. Horton left Smyrna after doing all he
could to unite his whole colony, and America may be thankful to him that only
one Amerlvii was killed. Mr. Horton did his utmost to help. I will have Mr.
Horton's statement presented, in which he says he asked the Turks what hap-
pened to that mani and they first told him he had been release.I. Mr. lorton
sent some one to au omleer to ask him to release the man immediately and the
Turks said he had been released, and Mr. Horton not being satisfied by the
reply sent for an officer and asked where the man was when he was released,
anti no one knew where he had gone, and they did not want to say that lie had
been executed.
On the 13th Mr. Horton left at 0 o'clock in the ovenlg. I have thus far
stated thme little things, but now the big things started. At 2 o'clock on the
morning of the 13th-from morning until midnight-the waterfront was filled
with refugees; about 500,000 of them.
Mr. Wurn Those are not Just the ones that were resident in the city?
Mr. BRORTOLT. Smyrna had a population of about 370,000 alone, and they all
fled to Smyrna from the surrounding country.
These pictures show the waterfront with the refugees on the waterfront
(producing photographs].
Mr. RAKEm. Who took those pictures.
Mr. BOuTOI. The Near East Relief.
Mr. RAxmn. Where were the English, French, and Italians during this time?
Mr. BorTom. The French and English and Italians had disembarked their
marines to protect the refugees as much as they could. We were, as a matter
of fact, Just in front of the water. We had a line of English, French, Italian,
and American marines, but that protection was absolutely nil. The Turks
would come In groups and take a child or take a girl and massacre her, and
take everything in front of this line; and they were not able to protect them.
Mr. WHiTe. I understood you to say they were not able to protect them.
Mr. BoTou. They were not able to protect them. They could no! stop a
Turk when he would come and get a girl from the interior of the crowd. The
marines were lined up in front of us, and the Turks would take a girl or a
woman from the crowd.
Mr. WHrrM. How many marines were there on shore?
Mr. Bhoirom. Tile French had three battleships, the Tonkinnoft, Jean Bard,
and Edward Guiner; the English had three ships, the Iron Duke anti Curacao
and another; and the Americans had three little destroyers, the Edsoll, the
leafteld, and the Siuspson. The Itallans had the Constantinople, the Solferino,
and the Vchezia.
Mr. RAiER. All these catastrophes took place witl all those countries
represented?
Mr. BonToLy. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAKER. They all stood by and saw those people destroyed?
Mr. BORTOLI. Absolutely.
Mr. RAKER. And gave no assistance?
Mr. BORTOLI. Absolutely. They were unable to give assistance.
Mr. Box. Would the Turks walk past the marines into the crowd and take
a girl or woman back with them?.
Mr. BosTOLi. Absolutely. The chairman asked me about my brother being
insane. I am afraid myself of becoming insane. I saw 15 or 20 girls have
their heads cut off as you would cut the neck of a chicken. I do not know how
many hundreds fell into the water.
Mr. RAKER. You say the Turks came to the line of the Allien and the American
Marines and took these girls and cut their heads off anl dumped then into
the water?
Mr. BonToLT. Absolutely; but not in front of the Americans, because where
the Americans could, they stopped them. In front of the passport office there
was a French nurse and the Turks wantetl to abuse her and the American
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGF.RS. 11
Marines come there and made a fight with the Turks and that is how that
girl saved her life.
Mr. WHITz. Could you state how many American Marines were landed?
Mr. BonTou. Maybe over 500.
Mr. Raxu. They could have stopped the whole thing if they had been turned
loose.
Mr. BonTou. Everybody could have done that.
Mr. RAxKE. The American Marines could have stopped the whole business
if they had been ordered to do It?
Mr. BoxTou. Yes, sir.
Mr. RARER. How many English marines were landed there?
Mr. BORTOL. Maybe 500.
Mr. RAKER. And how many from the French ships?
Mr. BORTOLt. The French had less.
Mr. MALONEY. Did they have a hundred?
Mr. BORTOLT. They had about 400.
Mr. MALONEY. How about the Italians?
Mr. BonrouA. They had heaps of hundreds.
Mr. MALONEY. Were there any Norwegians?
Mr. Bonrori. No; only Dutch.
Mr. MALONEY. Did the Dutch land any?
Mr. BOUTOLI. They landed some to protect their consul, I believe.
Mr. RAKER. Is it possible that these nations deliberately saw these people
destroyed?
Mr. BOUTOLI. Yes, sir. They saw the destructloir of the town. They bad no.
orders and they did not want to make a fight.
Mr. WHITE. The international purpose was to protect the natior.ids of their
own country?
Mr. BouToij. Absolutely; and they bad no instructions to do anything else
for others. I can even give the name of a soldier who was kept from helping
some one. Ile was an Italian, pmd started to help some one anil he was imme-
diately stopped by his officer.
That Is what happened in Smyrna.
Mr. ItAKER. That rather raised your estimation of the Italians?
Mr. Borerom. That Is why I am ashamed of the country, for not having done
anything. They did only protect their nationals and no one else.
Mr. CAnLEc. Were they all Greeks that were killed?
Mr. UoTom. No, sir; many Armenians. From the families of Smyrna there
Is not maybe a single family where there will not be a brother or a sister or a
father or a mother who was killed.
Tht statement hasbeen made that the Greeks set fire to the city. At 2
o'clock on the morning of the 13th I personally saw Turks In a motor lorry
sprinkling petroleum over the cadavers and through the city, alid after I little
I saw the flames going up from one part of the waterfront to another. Those
were Turks'sprinkling the petroleum. 1 am only telling you what I saw and
what I know. I will not say any lie; I tun only here to tell the truth ond to
ask you for admission of those refugees.
Outside of the destruction of Smyrna-while the nations were represented
there, they could not assist, but they could have avoided the massacres that
were going on outside of Smyrna. On the 14th In the morning when I saw
there was a possibility of taking my imiother to the passport ollice, and sought
to embark her, I do not know whether the Turks ired on me or my mother or
anybody else, but the fact Is that they struck her In the head and she died.
My sisters lived in Boudja and I tried to get them, and a more horrible
thing was in store for me. I went to the house where my sisters lived and
when 1 went in I found my sisters lying dead with their revolvers beside
them.
Mr. WHITE. In other words they killed themselves to escape dishonor?
Mr. BoRTOt. Yes, sir; that is what I understood also. That was told me
by my servant. The servant finally went to escape and he was in the front
part of the house, and when my sisters shot themselves the Turks robbed
everything, as they did in the case of the American consulate.
Mr. RAKES. You say they robbed the American consulate?
Mr. BoRToLt. Yes, sir; Mr. Horton has lost more than $25,000. They robbed
his house. You could not leave Smyrna with a pair of shoes. I left Smyrna
without a shirt.
Mr. RAKER. How about the English and French and Italians?
12 ADMISSION OF NEAR PAST REFUGEES.
Mr. BORTOLK. They just had to escape. The English had to be excused be-
cause the Turks hated the English and if they saw an Englishman in Smyrna
he was killed immediately.
But the French and Italians were to blame. They were on such good terms
with Kemal that they could have avoided everything, and if any warship had
fired two warning shots it would have stopped everything.
Mr. RAKR. They were quite incensed at the British?
Mr. Bowrou. Absolutely; they had such a rage against the English.
Mr. hRE. Were any English killed?
Mr. BoirTOLr. Oh, many of them. over 180; and I may state that the Turks
went to the British consulate and they did not find the consul, but they took the
man who was employed there ard he was immediately killed, and they also
found the watchmen of the consulate and took them out and killed them and
in their dead hands placed two Turkish flags.
Mr. WHrr. Not desiring to disturb your statement, I want to ask you at this
point one question. Can you state the probable number of English refugees
who fled from Smyrna?
Mr. BonToti. I could not state. The English knew perfectly well that they
were not safe, and the British consul gave advice to the English to flee away,
and as soon as they could get to a boat all of them went.
Mr. WHnTE. Those found refuge In England?
Mr. BonToLw. In England and in Malta.
The CHArMAN. And Malta is the place that the people insist we should
open the doors to so that they can get to the United States?
Mr. BonTou. The refugees are in an1of those islands.
Mr. RAKEE. The Turks got there on what date?
Mr. BorroLi. On the 9th of September.
Mr. RAKER. And the English gave word to their people when?
Mr. BORTOL. On the 7th of September.
Mr. RAxE. Even before the Turks arrived, they got out?
Mr. BonTou. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAKER. And even after they did get out the English consulate was robbed?
Mr. RORTOw. Absolutely.
Mr. RAxE. The English people were killed with English vessels in the harbor,
and 300 to 500 marines landed on the water front ap you have described?
Mr. BoRToui. Absolutely.
Mr. RAKER. You say there was better feeling between the French and the
Italians and the Turks than between the Turks and the English?
Mr. BORTOLi. Absolutely.
(Thereupon the committee adjourned.)
COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Saturday, December 16, 1922.
The committee met this day, Hon. Albert Johnson (chairman) presiding.
The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Yesterday we heard Mr.
Bortoli and agreed to hear several others.
Mr. WHiTE. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Bortoli tells me that he would like to use
about 5 or 10 minutes more of the committee's time.
The CHATIRMAN. Well, we will hear him. We will give him all of the time
that he need%.
In order that the conditions may be a little better understood, we have placed
here on the wall a War College map of Europe and Asia Minor, and Mr.
Rortoli has left with me a series of maps in an English publication entitled
"The Question of Thrace." That will be before the committee, and it may be
well to place some of these maps in the hearings.
We received a telegram this morning which I would like to read.
NEw YoRi, N. Y.. December 15, 1922.
ALBF.RT JOHNSON,
Chairman Immigration Cominttee,
House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.:
Earnestly hope favorable action on bill S. 4002, introduced by Mr. White, of
Kansas. Have never known a temporary measure having stronger justification
than his this bill.
H. A. HATCH.
That bill was Introduced by Mr. Whito as H. R. 18269.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. is
Mr. Stoddard, the author of several books on this subject which have
attracted a good deal of attention recently, i present, and I would like to have
him heard for a few minutes. If there Is no objection, we will hear Mr.
Stoddard. Just give your name and address.
STATEMENT OF MR. LOTEROP STODDARD, 1768 BEACON STREET,
BROOKLINE, MASS.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the title of the books which you have written?
Mr. STODDARD. The three best known are The Rising Tide of Color Against
White Supremacy, The New World of Islam. and Revolt Against Civilization.
The CHAIRMAN. In your preparation of these books you were obliged to
become familiar with this Asia Minor country.
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir; I made a very long study of the Near East, and
I may say that the second book, The New World of Islam, has not only
done well In this country, but it has attracted a great deal of attention in
England. It is at this time appearing in a French translation, and has also
attracted considerable attention in Asia Minor, and is being translated in
two languages the Arabic and the Urdu.
The CHAIRMAN. Are you prepared to make a statement to the committee
with regard to this appeal for the relief of the refugees from Turkey?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. We would like to hear you.
Mr. STODDARD. I think it is Important for us to understand the national
character of the minority of the people who compose these refugees.
The majority of these refugees come from the coastal districts of Asia
Minor and adjacent regions. These people form a part of the population
which is found In most of the coastal districts of the entire Mediterranean
Basin, especially the towns and cities.
They are known normally, broadly spoken of as the Levantines.
These Levantines are the result of an extraordinary racial mixture which
has been going on for at least- 2,500 years. They have certain characteristics
which are recognizable, not only in modern times, but in ancient times, and
these characteristics, many of them, are extremely undesirable.
For one thing, they are very largely a parasitic population, living by their
wits, by unproductive means of labor, by petty trading, by graft, and by
similar equivocal methods.
Wherever they have gone in great numbers they have exercised a very
baneful influence on whatever country they have entered. If you will go
back to Roman history and read the Roman writers, in the latter days of
the Republic and the early days of the Empire, you will find the Latin
literature filled with the waltings against the Influences of the Levantines in
Rome; the destruction of standards, of ideals, and various destructive relig-
ious and other ideas, which were brought in by these people. In the latter
days of thp Empire they swarmed over the western provinces and did a
great deal of damage. It is as I say, this Levantine strain which is now
seeking admission in such great numbers to this country, and it would be,
in my opinion, a great mistake if large numbers of these people were ad-
mitted.
Mr. WHIT& Would you care to interrupted at that point?
Mr. WHITE. Would you classify them as inferior to the Turks that rule
that country, or would you care to make that statement?
Mr. STODDARD. Well, It depends upon what you mean by "inferior."
Mr. WHITE. Well, with regard to their business and ethics.
Mr. STODDARD. Well, the Turk Is not a business man, it Is true. You must
remember that he has particularly no business aptitude. The Turk Is an agri-
culturist or a landowner. He has never engaged in business to any great extent.
The CHAIRMAN. It has not been the policy of this committee to undertake to
say that one race is inferior to another. That Is not the point. The point we
are trying to arrive at is with regard to the various people coming to this
country, whether they are Japanese or Levantines, which are likely to be detri-
mental to the population of the United States.
Mr. RAKER. But, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stoddard says that this Is a mixed
race of people, that is true, Isn't it?
Mr. STODDARD. They are thoroughly a mongrel people.
14 ADMISSION OF NIAR EAST REFUGEES.
The CHAIRMAN. That was the original melting pot?

Mr. ST0wDAm. Yes.
Mr. WHIT. I would like to ask the gentleman, Mr. Stoddard, this question:
Is, in your judgment, in your opinion, the extreme hatred and demonstrations
exhibited by the TurkishGovernment and the Turkish population toward these
people on account of the parasitic qualities to which you have referred, or is It
a religious prejudice?
Mr. STODDARD. It ti more than that. It Is that and more. I was Just going to
reach that point, If you will allow me to proceed.
Mr. WH&v. Yes; I want it developed.
Mr. STODDAIM. Yes, air; that Is an important point. I wish to bring out
leading to the second point that I wish to bring out.
This pressure of refugees seeking admission to our country has sometimes
been represented as a special and passing phenomenon. In my opinion, it is
merely one phase of the process which is likely to continue for a considerable
time to come. There is no doubt but that the whole Far East is in a very pro-
found and very dangerous ferment. That thing, in my opinion, is getting more
and more acute rather than less so, and I will try to explain why.
In former times, down to about a generation ago, just speaking roughly,
these people considered themselves divided mainly in terms of religion. That
does not mean that the religious divisions were the only things that divided
them, but those divisions, for the most part, were based on the terms of religion.
Of course, there were differences due to economic conflicts, to doctrinal and cul-
tural conflicts, and so forth, but ll of these divisions are rationalized in terms
of religion.
Now, these various groups which were divided, more especially by their re-
liglous differences, it is true, got along with a great deal of difficulty. There
always has been a great deal of conflict between them.
At the same time history has proved that two or more religions can, with
more or less conflict, possibly get along, but States can not coexist in the same
territory. Now, however, about a half a century ago, or three-quarters of a
century, there came into the East all manner of the western ideas; new ideas,
ideas of nationalism, and that idea of nationalism has been taken up by all of
these people in a most fanatical way.
Mr. WHIMn You say that that has come in recently?
Mr. STODDARD. Within the last half century. Well, it has really become to
be noticeable within 75 years.
Mr. WHITE. Well, my gool sir, I want to be polite; but hasn't the history of
those people shown that that has been going on for thousands of years--for
4,000 years-in that country?
Mr. STODDARD. No, sir; they had no idea of nationality, as we know it. They
had no national Idea; no, sitr. These people were down to a century- ago almost
devoid of nationality in our sense of the word; the feeling and the desire to
have a nation in the western sense. The only Idea of solidarity they had was
mainly in terms of religion.
Mr. It.KER. It made no difference from where they came If their religion was
all right they were all right?
Mr. WuITF.. I aim willing fir tle statement to go into the record, but I can
not believe that at all.
Mr. STODDAID. A hundred year. ago all of the peoples of the Balkans con-
sldered themselves and spoke of themselves largely as "Greeks." They were
under the same ecleslastical domination, the patriarch at Constantinople, and
considered themselves as Greeks. its opposed to the Moslem Turks. It is only
within the past century, roughly speaking-of course, there are traces of a
national feeling In some of these places earlier than that, but a hundred years
ago-a little over a hundred years ago--all of the Balkan people thought of
themselves as Greeks. and they were Greek Christians as opposed to the
Moslems; a. I you will find within the past 100 years this western idea of
nationality has ben grafted on these people.
Mr. WHITE. Just let me ask you a question: I do not want to illterrupt the
witness for any length of time, but hasn't It been the feeling of the Jewish
race, the Hebraic race, and have they not clung to the Idea of one nationality
as It existed formerly In ancient times, and have they not hoped against de-
spair to have a restoration of that nationality? Haven't they clung to the
hope that they would be able to reestablish that nationality, and was not that
what inspired those people to rebel agahist the authority of Rome. because they
wanted to reestablish their nationality?
Mr. STODDARD. No, sir.
31r. WHiTE. Then I have read history wrong, my dear sir.
Mr. STODDARD. They have retained their tribal customs, but the idea of a
untion is a modern Idea.
Mr. WHITE. I think It is an ancient idea.
Mr. STODDARD. Well, that is a matter of opinion.
Mr. W\'HITE. Yes.
Mr. STODDARD. Well. I aim simply giving imy hideas and the Ideas of those
whowm I consider to be time most autiritative students of modlern political
theories.
Well, to go on, If I may, sir, this Idea of nationality has been taken up In
a very extraordinary, fanatical sense.
Mr. R.KnER. Now, let us look at the map. You said that all of this territory
[Indicating] was considered to bt Greek. Now, that includes Bulgaria, Rou-
mania, and Serbia.
Mr. STODDARD. All uf these people all through here (indicating), one hundred
years ago, all of these people in these Balkan nations considered themselves
to be Greeks In time sense that they were members of the Greek Orthodox
Church. That Includes the various Balkatn countriess in Europe [indicating
on1 1m1iii and sio oil.
WVell. now. this Idea of nt'onality has been taken up very famtically.
within a century by all o." thes e people in tMe Near East-In the Balkans and
Asiatic Turkey-md it has been blended with the old religious difficulties,
and tihe result has been very great In sharpenig antagonisms for this reason,
that whereas two or more religions can occupy the same territory at the same
thue with more or less difficulty, two or more nations can not possibly occupy
time same territory any more than three chairs can occupy the same space at
time same time. Now, that has had two effects. It has served all of these
various fanatic and Irreeenelable elements; that las had two effects which
have produced and ilcreased 'hostility and increased trouble, and in the first
place, the various minorities. whether they be Christians or Mohemmedans,
have dreamed of establishing n national state. That national state has been
conceived by teminIII a religious way: and that what ever kind, all of the
various territories which In the past have belonged to people of their general
faith and persuamsion they desire to incorlorate and they desire to bring Into
being mt national state in which time people, tl'e Inhabitants. should be Incor-
porated In their national entity. Now, that hats made them, you see, really ir.
recoincilmble opponents of time majority.
The majority, on tie other hand, has recognized this fact. They also have
desires of concentrating their power amid of making a national state In which
the minority should he forcibly converted to their religions and culture, etc.
Now, you see the Irreconcilable consequence. which have sprung up.. The
majorities have found the minorities were dead against them. and the minorl-
t'es have desired to establish a nation of their own and have dreamed of a
national state. That. to my mind, that combined with the interference of the
western powers. the great powers of Europe. in using these various elements
as their tools, tile whole tsult has been the sharpening of the antagonisms
of those people to each other, and has been the cause of Increasing the trouble.
I believe that that trouble Is going to go on for a considerable space of
time. I believe )you are going to see that we are going to have more trouble
throughout the various regions. I am very sure that we will have more
trouble itere.
The ClAuniMAN. Now, just what do you nivita by the Neamr East?
Mr. STODDAP.D. By time Near East, I mean the Balkan Peninsula, and what
we know is Asiatic Turkey, and Northern Africa, all of that region iII there
[Indicating on map).
The CHAIRMAN. Including Armenia?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir: and also Egypt:
Mr. ItA1EM. Was it not to accede to that idea, that they put into operation
and created Esthonla, Lithuania, Poland, Yugoslavia, and-
Mr. STODDARD. They have been more or less Balkanized.
Time CHAIRMAN. That Is getting off of the Near East proposition. Now, we
handled that last year.
25909-23-sEm 1-c--2
Mr. RAKER. I might say that I do not want to go into that, but I would like to
ask this, if it is not a fact. when the Armenian people were massacred or
were otherwise driven out of the territory, when conditions become more fa-
vorable, if the most of them have'not moved back?
Mr. RAKER. Following out the idea that the Greeks claimed the territory for
their nation.
Mr. STODDARD. Yes. sir; they have.
Mr. WHITE. I would like to ask the gentleman n question that is not clear
to my mind.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.
Mr. WHITE. You mentioned thls situation in Turkey distinctly different from
the situation that exists in western Europe, namely, France, Belgium, Holland,
Spain, etc., that tits religious Intolerance exists there, which does not exist
in western Europe. Now, sir, does it not exist in western Europe, but possibly
not to the same degree?
Mr. STODDARD. Not to tihe same degree, and, furthermore, the same condition
does not exist here as in western Europe. In western Europe you have a sort-
ing out of the people according to nationalities. Here, on the other hand, these
people are indiscriminately mixed up.
Mr. WmT. Pardon me, but may I ask another question?
Mr. WHITE. Is not this the situation: Is not this new arrangement of the
nations a reestablishment of their ancient nationalities?
Mr. STODDARD. No, sir; I do not consider that that is so. I consider that they
have developed a modern nationalistic spirit; it is a development of modern.
times, if you please. They had their religious and tribal comnunitles, but I con-
sider that the spirit of nationality Is essentially a modern thing. It began in
western Europe with the Renaissance and has spread to that territory.
Mr. WHITE. Has it not been established along other lines also?
Mr. STODDARD. No. sir: because it was not necessary in the old days.
The CHAR)MAN€. Now, gentlemen, It would be very Interesting if we could take
up the history of civilization in this committee, but the matter before the com-
inittee is the admission into the United States of refugees from Tturkish terri-
tory, and the points that Mr. Stoddard may be able to enlighten us on Is what
that means and whatever refugees are in the san* boat as it is claimed these
people are.
Mr. RAKER. Yes; and give some of the reasons why. Tell us the kind of
people they are and the attitude of these people and ah to whether or not the3
should be admitted to this country under any circumstances.
The CHAIRMAN. That is exactly it.
Mr. STODDARD. In my opinion, sir, there is going to be a continuance of trouble
here, throughout the Near East, not only through eastern Thrace, but that there
is going to be trouble in the Balkans: there is going to be trouble In tihe Levant;
there is going to be trouble in the Caucasus, in southern Russia: ant] I think
that there may very well be serious trouble, and there Is going to be trouble in
Egypt and northern Africa.
Mr. Box. Just roughly, what Is the population of the area to which you refer?
How many refugees might come from there within the next few years?
Mr. STODDARD. I should say, roughly speaking, the area that I refer to has
somewhere between fifty and seventy-five million people, and out of that very
likely anywhere from twenty to twenty-five millions will be refugees within the
course of a generation, very probably within the next 10 years. There is going
to be, In my opinion, a continuance of these troubles, and they are going to be
driving out the minorities. There is going to be q pressure and the distribution
of these minorities to go to other parts of the world, and a vast proportion of
them are going to seek admission to this country.
Mr. RAKER. Mr. Chairman, the witness has said that there would probably
be twenty-five or thirty millions compelled to leave.
Mr. STODDARD. Might be compelled to leave.
Mr. RAKER. Froln your knowledge of those people and their institutions,
do you think that they would be a desirable addition to our population?
Mr. STODDARD. I would consider them very undesirable. I can conceive of no
more undesirable type of immigrants than they would be. That is borne out
by their whole history, wherever they have gone, wherever the Levant peoples
have gone In any great numbers, from the days of Rome to the present time.
ADMISSION OF "NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 17
Mr. RARER. While we might contribute our funds, do what we can to relieve
their suffering, and help them, you do not think that we should go so far as to
allow them to tear down our very house?
Mr. STODDARD. No,sir; self-preservation is the first law of nature.
Mr. WHITE Now, Mr. Chairman, I beg your pardon for interrupting.
The CHAIRMAN, Will you explain the terms appearing, from time to time,
in the cablegrams from abroad concerning the situation, these two names,
Anatolia population and Roumelia?
Mr. STODDARD. The terms "Anatolia" and "Roumelia" are Turkish terms.
You see, as soon as the Turks conquered Constantinople they proceeded to
divide that territory into two parts, Anatolia being a Turk word meaning east,
and Roumelia the word meaning west. You will remember during and after
the Roman Empire these people considered themselves as Romans.
It is only since the creating of the national feeling, about a hundred years
ago, that they dropped the term "Romans," and adopted the term "Hellenes."
The CHAIRMAN. So that Anatolia means practically everything east of Con-
stantinople, Asia Minor?
The CHAIRMAN. Running clear up to Syria?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes. sir. In that brown section (referring to map].
Mr. WHITE. May I ask the witness, will there be any considerable portion
of these refugees that the witness anticipates make up part of the Balkan
Provinces?
Mr. STODDARD. Well, of course, that depends upon the course of events.
Mr. WHITE. Well, now, is there anything pointing to that movement that
you anticipate?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir; this place [indicating) half of the minority popu-
lations of eastern Thrace may pass itself on-
Mr. WHITE. But what I am asking you is Will it affect Rumania, Bulgaria,
Rumelia, and Czecho-Slovakla and those States?
Mr. RAKER. If I may interrupt, I would like to offer the suggestion that
those countries have already used up their quota for the liresent year. Bul-
garia has entirely used up her quota for tihe current year.
Mr. WHITE. Are these movements on foot now?
Mr. STODD.ARD. They are moving.
Mr. RAKER. In the same way, Greece has used up her quota. Now, as I
understand, Mrs. Leeds, wio married tilts prince, is coming over, and I pre.
sun.c that site will be admitted, notwithstanding the fact tlt Greece has used
up her quota for tils year. I suppose that sie will get in some -tmy. I say
that advisedly.
Mr. WlHITE. I would like to ask the witness another question on this point.
Is there any pressure from Mohammedans to enter the United States?
Mr. STODDJARD. Very few M1otaniedals come fim.
The CHAIRMAN. The reason being that the laws of the United S8tates pre-
vent ie admission of those who preach and practice polygamy, and most
true ,Mohaniiedans are unable to deny tha when they are asked.
Mr. RAKER. The Turks have already exceeded their quota.
The CIIAInMAN. I know, but those are Greeks that were born it Turkey
that are coming in. That have taken up their quota. They are Turks, as a
result of having been born in Turkey, but the Turks, if they are Mohammedans,
can not very well come in unless they deny the faith to which they adhere.
Mr. R.AKI:R. We have bad one demonstration of this situation. in one case
where they obtained charge of a city up in Mussachusetts, amd they took cinrge,
and took the city funds to deport about itthousand Spaniards.
The CHAIRMAN. Not a thousand.
Mr. RAiKER. Well, something like that.
The CHAIRMAN. Now, there are Russian refugees it tills country, litthe Near
East, are there not?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir; a great number of them, especially around Con-
stantinople.
The CHAIRMAN. Then, the Russian refugees have come down into this
country, across the Black Sea, and have been crowded down into this Levant
country?
Mr. STODDARD. Oh, vast numbers of them are there around in here (indicatting
on map) trying to get out.
Mr. RAKER. But is this Thrace East Thrace?
Mr. STODDARD. East Thrace. tits district around Adrianople. and down In
there.
Mr. RAKER. Now, that is the territory where the refuges are living In?
Mr. RAKER. That was originally a part of the territory of the Greeks?
Mr. STODDARD. No, It has not been Greek territory since 1918.
Mr. RAKER. That is what I mean.
Mr. STODDARD. Yes. I will tell you gentlemen why I say, and what I mean
by saying, that this large number of the population in there, this vast pro-
portion, are potential refugees.
Now, take Thrace, down in there, during the Balkan War of 1912 and 1918.
Those were Turks in there when the Bulgars came in there and they drove
them out in vast numbers. I do not know how many, but It must have run
into the hundreds of thousands of refugees, who were homeless, penniless, re-
fugees. Many of them drifted over into Asia Minor and many perished.
Then, in 1918. as a result of a second Balkan War, the Turks retook that
country and expelled lots of Bulgars.
At the time of the war in 1918. the Greeks came in and expelled the Turks
and Bulgars again by the wholesale, and now the Turks are coming back
again and the Greeks are being expelled wholesale again.
Now, gentlemen. from that, in that one littel piece of territory, I will bet
that there are a million people that have been dispossessed in the past 10
years, since 1912.
Mr. Box. You mean in Thrace? In that section?
Mr. STODDARD. In East Thrace. and including West Thrace but I will bet
that there have been a million people--of course, many of them have been
counted twice over because many of them have come back-but I will bet that
a million people have been dispossessed in that small section of the country,
this little spot on this great map. [Indicating on map.]
Now gentlemen, that has been going on, continuing for goodness knows how
long, so you can easily see how the number of refugees might be swelledl into
the millions.
Mr. WHITE. Can you state whether the conditions in Russia are liable to
swell the unmber of refugees?
Mr. STODDARD. Well, that depends again. That is an uncertain term. Of
course, the Russian revolution has been more. far more, than a political re-
volution. It has been a social revolution, and the refugees have been those
who have fled from the Soviet form of government. Therefore they are
hardly in the same class as the political refugees, ordinarily, since they are
people who are fleeing from not only a political revolution, but also a social
revolution. That was a social revolution. That is why the numbers are so
vast, sir.
Mr. WHTE. As a matter of fact, they left Russia in terror of their lives,
did they not, very large numbers of them?
Mr. Box. But their government was the preiloininating factor in that, was it
not, Mr. Stoddard?
'Mr. STODDARD. Yes, air: the establishment of thel Soviet government.
Mr. RAKER. That would be the saue way in Thrace, you think, that if the
trouble begins they would be driven out in droves, and that It is purely a
question of government.
'Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir; it is a question of government, with various rami-
fications.
Mr. VAI.E. What is tie approximate urea of Thrace?
Mr. STODDARD. I can n:ot tell you, sir, offhand. I should say that eastern
Thrace comprises a small area, perhaps a thousand square miles. or two or
three thouand square miles. I can not say offhand, but it is a small area.
The CHAIRM.N. Here it is on this map.
Mr. RAKER. It Is a very small area.
Mr. STODDARD. Twenty-five hundred to three thousand square miles, I should
say.
Mr. VA]Lr. About the size of a fair-sized county?
Mr. STODDARD. About the size of Rhode Island.
Mr. RAKER. May I ask you one other question with regard to the condition
lit Thrace, the Near East, where there has been an intermingling of these
people for a long time? From your observation, do they intermarry?
Mr. STODDAmD. There is very little intermarriage. The walls separating
*'Mese people are so high, and they are so thoroughly separated by these walls,
that there is practically no Intermarriage between the various branches; they
are separated trom each other to such an extent by these walls that there
Is practically no intermarriage.
Mr. FREE. Are they so intermingled through the entire territory. so that
you could not take these people and classify one territory as Greek and the
other as Turk, or Armenian, and are they mixed in their population?
Mr. STODDARD. Well, of course, you have a mixed people. There is a vast
mixture. I do not think there has been as much intermarriage hi recent
times as there has been in the past.
Mr. Fs. I did not mean to refer to the mixture as a result of Intermar-
riage, but I mean in occupation.
Mr. STODDARD. Oh1, I see. As I say, they are Intermingled ill through the
territory. You will see perhaps one village of Turks ahd the next village
will be Creeks, and when you get into the towns there will be half a dozen
quarters, in which you will find people of different natiomidities, an they
have different trades, different professions, different callings.
The CHAIRMAN. Something similar to New York?
Mr. STODDAxv. Yes, sir; and they keep themselves separate. and as I say,
there is a very great antagonism.
Mr. WHiTE. There is a great deal of truth In those words. Mr. Ciairiain.
Mr. STODDARD. They preserve their religion, their religious lift. and their
different customs, anti the condition is different from what it is in western
Europe. In France anti Germany and tile western countries in Europe they
are in amalgamated national people. They are one great group.
The CHIRMAN. Similar to what we have in this country?
Mr. STODDARD. I have not seen any great evidence of amalgamation in this
country between the older and the newer Immigrants.
Mr. WVnim. I am speaking of the western European countries . A French-
man's descendants. here in America. the second generation, sire as thoroughly
hnd completely American as the descendants of the Puritans.
Mr. STODDARD. That depends upon the individuals.
Mr. VAin. And it depends upon what you consider American.
Mr. WHIT& Well, my observation-
Mr. FREE (interrupting). Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask a question.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. We will have to suspend with Mr. Stoddard very
shortly.
Mr. FREE. I would like to ask one question of Mr. Stoddard. It may be that
he has already put It In the record, but I want to get it clear in my mind. I
want to ask one question and lie can r aswer.
Mr. Fn . I would like to get a statement from you as to the prevailing
religion of, first, the Greeks; and, second, the Armenians. Now. we hear a
great deal hWre about the Armenians, its to their being a (iristian people,
but what I really want Is what really their fundamental religion is.
Mr. STODDARD. I will tell you. Their religion Is a form, a very ancient form
of Christianity. The Armenians have been considered schismuatlcs ever since
early times. I forget when, but I think that it was in the sixth or seventh
century, as great church council was held at Constantinople, at which I believe
many articles of the Christian faith were lald down. At that tise condi-
tions were very disturbed, and the Armenian delegates did not get to the
Council, and the Armenian people refused to be bound by the church council
at which they had not been represented, anti. therefore, they have maintained
the older form of the Christian faith, as It was before this particular council.
So, therefore, it was cut off from communion with the main body of the Chris-
lan church, because, of course, at that time the split In the Eastern and West-
ern church had not come about, and from that time the Armenians have been
schismatic.
Mr. RAKER. What do you mean that they are schismatic?
Mr. STODDARD. Well, they have not been in communion with the min body
of the Christian church, because they stopped at a certain point and did sot
adopt the articles of faith which were drawn up at this church council.
Mr. FR=. There are Catholic and Protestant Armenians. are there not?
Mr. STODDARD. Yes, sir; but those are recent converts, comparatively recent-
in recent times.
The CHAIRMA,. The Armenians came under the domination of Alexander I

of Russia, who was later assassinated, did they not?
Mr. STODDAmD. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. I am sorry that we will have to suspend here. We thank
you very much. The record will be sent to you for any revision, if you will
give your name and address to the clerk.
Mr. Brainerd P. Salmon, the ex-president of the American Chamber of Com-
merce, at Athens, Greece, is present. We will hear Mr. Salmon.
Mr. WHrr. Mr. Chairman, If Mr. Bartoldl could have concluded his state-
ment, so that it might have all appeared consecutively In the record, I think
would have been better.
The CHAMMAN. Well. we can print the record so that his statement will
appear consecutively.
STATEMENT OF BRAINED P. SALMON, EX-PRESIDENT AMERICAN
CHAMBER 0F COMMERCE OF ATHENS, GOREECE.
Mr. SALMoX. Mr. Chairman, if I might be permitted to do so, before pro.
ceeding, I would like to ask the committee to let me refer to some statements
"
made by the previous witness. In the use of the term "Levantines, Mr.
Stoddard has used the terM entirely inaccurately. The term "Levantine"
we consider In the Levant refers not to the races who are established In
Turkey, such as the Greeks. Syrians, and Armenians. but refers simply to
Italians, French, and English, who are living there-and possibly born there,
but maintaining the nationality of their parents-and who live there under
the protection of a French, British, or Italian passport. I think there is no
question about that.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Are there many of those?
Mr.'SALMO,. Many, but not in proportion to the total number of people
living in the Levant. I should say in Smyrmi. before the fire, that there
were probably 20.000 out of . city of approxinmtely 400,000.
Now, Mr. Stoddard also referred to the people of the Near East who would
be brought in tinder this act as a mongrel race, and then afterwards in his
testimony he said that there were no intermarriages between the races of
the Near East.
The CHAIRMAN. Wait a minute. As a matter of fact, Is It not a matter
of history that the whole race in there has developed as a mixed race?
Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, I do not think that history will bear out that
st -ment. The Greek race, in Anatolie, are born Greek and the race has not
mi.. -d with other races, and they are descendants of the original stock in
that part of the world, and for hundreds of years before, have remained the
same.
With reference to the mixture of races referred to, a distinction should be
drawn between the Greek of the Byzantine period and the ancient Greek.
Between the days of ancient Greece and the time of the Byzantine Empire
there had been a certnin racial mixture. although authorities differ as to
the extent that this affected the pure Greek strain. It Is a fact, however.
that the Greek of to-day is of the same race is the Greek of the Byzantine
Empire and that for !AW)0 years there has been practically no intermarringe
with other races.
The CHAIRMAN. YOU are speaking now not of the Armenians?
Mr. SALSro. The same would apply to the Armenians; yes. sir.
Mr. RAKER. I understand that centuries ago that part of the country was
overrun by Africans, who took charge of It. intermarried, and left their trace
over every part of that country; is that so?
Mr. SALMON. I do not think so, Mr. Raker.
Mr. Wnrra. I would like to ask the witness one question, a very brief
one: Is It not a fact that even in the time of the predominance of the Persian
Empire, and all of those ancient empires, and down through, coming down
to the days of the Roman Republic. when those countries were subjugated by
the Roman Empfre. that all of those races and peoples preserved their spirit
of nationality?
Mr. SALMON. I think so; yes, sir. The previous witness also referred to
the people who would come under this bill as being parasites, not being pro-
ducers. I think the facts will bear out the statement that 75per cent of the
industry in Smyrna was In the hands of the Greeks, and that the Turks them-
selves did not control more than 5 or possibly 10 per cent of the Industry
of that city.
The CHAIRMAN. Vhen you say that, do you mean to say that the Greeks
dominate the Levantines also?
Mr. SALMON. I do not; no, sir.
Mr. Rarm. Mr. Stoddard stated that what really happened with regard
to those people, was that the Turks controlled the general business, but that
these other races, other peoples, lived by such things as petty trading.
Mr. SALMoN. A very large percentage of the Greeks in Anatolia are agri-
culturists. A very large percentage of the refugees were driven into the city
from the farms. In the cities they are engaged In various industries. They
are also traders. The Turk is an agriculturist, unless he can get a job as
policeman, a soldier, or as a petty officer where there is an opportunity to
get graft.
The CHAIRMAN. That is the Turk?
Mr. SALMON. That Is the Turk; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. We are getting the same charge against both races.
Mr. SALMON. Now, as to the character of the people that would be'admitted
under the terms of this bill, I can simply refer you to their character, the
police court records, the poor house records, of the Greeks and Armenians
who are here in this country at the present time.
You will find, if you will refer to those records, that they stand very high
in the life of the community.
Mr. FRF E. What about their honesty? Are they not actually dishonest, on
the whole? We have a colony in California and we have never found as dis-
honest and inrellnble lot of people as the Armenians and the Greeks.
Mr. SALMON. Well, sir, I have lived among them for a good many years.
They are like everybody else. There are good ones and bad ones among them.
Mr. FIn.. They are fundamentally dishonest though, are they not?
Mr. SALMON. NO.
Mr. VAItL We had a witness before this vomnmittee on this subject the
other day who devoted a great deal of time and gave a very detailed analysis
as to the occupants of penal institutions. reformatories, charitable institutions-
I am sorry that I do not have the records before me-but I remember one thing.
which was that the people of Greece, the Greeks, have two and one-half times
their normal proportion of people in these Institutions of the United States.
Mr. SALMON. What do you refer to by "normal proportion "? With what is
It compared?
i-'. V.%irx-. With all of the people in all of those Institutions, penal institu-
tions, compared with the total population of the United States.
Mr. RAKER. Oiving that as 100 per cent?
AMr. VAIi. Calling that 100 per cent. Then. he figured the number from each
foreign-bont group In the penal institutions, and he determined that, I think
by comparing that with the other nationalities, and lie found that for that
nationality, as compared with the total Imsputation. and the total number in the
country, and found that the Greeks had 250 per cent.
Mr. SALMON. I would hove to see those figures before I could give any credit
to them. because they do not ngi-ee with my own observation.
Mr. VA,.E. They do not agree with your observations of the people over
there?
Mr. SALI[o-. They do nt agroo with my observation of the people over there
or over here.
The CHAIRMAN. You live where?
Mr. SAIMON. Athens. I have also beeni in Smyrna and Constantinople a
great deal.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you been in Armenia?
Mir. SALMON. Not to any great extent.
Tite CAIRUMnA. Do you know anything about the diseases that are prevalent
over there, the prevalent diseases, such as smallpox, typhus?
Mr. SAT oN. Of course I know that the sanitation in the Near East is en-
tirely different from what it Is here.
The CHAIRMAN. Smallpox. cholera. syphilis, and other diseases rage over
there, do they not?
Mr. SATMON. Yes, sir.
The CHAiRMAN. They do?
Mr. SALMON. There Is no doubt about that, and there is no doubt but that
it is raging in Greece at the present time among the refugees.
Mr. RA.P=. Would it not be pretty dangerous to bring over those people,
under these circumstances, and turn them loose in the UnitedStates?
Mr. SALMoN. I do not think so, with the safeguards which you gentlemen have
thrown around them in the laws.
The CHAIRMAN. That Is, that this sieve, this law which is full of holes, you
think would hold out that type of people?
Mr. RAKe. There Is no inspection at all. They are not inspected for syphilis.
gonorrhea, and other diseases. It is a fact. We had testimony here showing
that about 40 per cent of them were suffering from some disease or other.
Mr. SALMON. With those remarks, I wish to proceed with my statement. Do
you have any questions that you would like to ask me?
The CnA vlAN. We would like a general statement from you, and your busi-
ness over there at the present time. I understand you are president of the
American Chamber of Commerce there?
Mr. SALMON. I was president of the American Chamber of Commerce in
Greece for about 18 months, and am still a member of It. A position of an
officer of an American chamber of commerce abroad is never one carrying any
revenue with it. The working staff are paid, but never the officers. I mention
my connection with the chamber simply to show a certain amount of knowl-
edge of the commercial and industrial sitliation ln Greece.
The CHAIRMAN. What is that organization?
Mr. SALMON. It is an organization the actual members of which are all
Americans. We only accept Greeks as associate members. They have no right
to vote in the organization.
The tHAIRMAN. Americans in America or Americans in Greece?
Mr. SALMON. Americans in Greece. We are affiliated with the Federated
American Chambers of Commerce of the Near East in New York.
The CHAIRMAN. What is that?
Mr. SALMON. That is the American clearing house of the American chambers
of commerce in the Near East, and it is through that that we get our American
members. Their members are concerns that are located here in the United
States. By Joining the Federated American Chambers of Commerce here one
becomes automatically a member of the different American chambers of com-
merce in the Near East.
Mr. FRz. What is the purpose of the chamber in the Near East?
Mr. SALMoN. To promote American business, and to facilitate business rela-
tions between the countries in which the chambers are located and the United
States.
Mr. F =z How is it maintained?
Mr. SALMON. It is maintained by membership dues, and in our own case.
Greece. as a result of the small number of Americans there, and we are operat-
ing only in a small way; we had to dig down into our own pockets and put
up the necessary funds to keep it going.
Mr. RAKER. Just what relation do you have to the chamber. are you the
president?
Mr. SALMON. No, sir; I am a former president. I have been in this country
for the past year.
Mr. RAKER. What are you now?
Mr. SALMON. I am a member at the present time.
Mr. RAKER. Where Is your home, in Athens?
Mr. SAL ON. Yel. I have been here in the United States for a year, Mr.
Raker, endeavoring to tell the people of the United States. and even presuming
to tell the State Department something about Greece, that apparently they
did not want to know; something that I think that the State Department did
not want to know. That has been my mission here during the past ycir.
Mr. RAKER. Who is paying your expenses?
Mr. SALMON. Now, Mr. Raker, I Iony my own expenses.
The CHAIRMAN. You are a citizen of the United States?
Mr. SALMON. I am.
The CHAIRMAN. Amd when you are in Athens you are temporarily located
there?
Mr. SALMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fax. What is your business, outside of your connection with the chamber?
Mr. SALMON. I am an engineer and contractor. I have a shipping office in
Athens; but as that might have a bad sound to this committee, I will explain
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST RXPUGERS. 28
by saying that we handle only merchandise. We never handled a passenger in
our life. If this bill goes through we will not make a cent out of it.
Mr. Foms What line are you connected with?
Mr. SALMON. I have an agency there and represent several lines, among them
the Bull Steamship Co., which, incidentally, the Shipping Board does not permit
to call at any port In Greece at this time. We see the vessels steaming past the
port of Piroeus, but we can not get them to stop at Pirieus.
Mr. Fm. Just tell us about that. Why are they not permitted to stop and
to do business there? Is that what you mean?
Mr. SALMON. That is right.
Mr. Faui For what reason?
Mr. SALMON. Because the Shipping Board has allocated this territory in the
Mediterranean to different steamship lines. They have allocated to Greece the
-Export Steamship Line. They have allocated the Black Sea to the Bull Line.
That Is a recent arrangement that they made.
The CHAIMAN. 'They have done that in order to consolidate the business.
Go on with your statement, please.
Mr. SALMON. But the effect, Mr. Chairman, has been that the percentage of
American goods carried in American bottoms to Greece is steadily decreasing.
. Mr. Chairman, you mentioned a few minutes ago your interest in the number
of people that would be admitted under this bill. That is something that it
Is almost impossible for me to estimate. I have made such inquiry as it was
possible for me to make, and from my own information and my own knowledge
of the situation I do not believe, so far as the Greeks are concerned, that this
bill will permit the entry of more than ten or twelve thousand.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the next after tie Greeks'?
Mr. SALMON. After the Greeks would be the Armenians.
The CHAtRMAN. How many would you estimate would be from there?
Mr. SALMON. I do not believe that there would be over two or three thousand.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the next titter the Armenians'
Mr. SALMON. I do not know of any other race that could come under the
terms of tlis bill.
The CHAIUMAN. What about the Russian refugees
Mr. SALMON. I do not see how they could be considered as coming under this
bill, because this bill specifies particularly the refugees from Turkish territory,
and states that the terms shall mean any person who has lied from his home
since the 1st of October, 1921.
The ChAIRMAN. Now, do you not think that that is rather an arbitrary state-
utent for the Congress to put forward, to reduce it to the refugees since a cer-
tain date
,Mr. SALMON. Of course, Mr. Chairman, I am not competent to pass on what
Congress should do.
The CHAIRMAN. I assume that you are as interested as other people who
would be ready with an amendment to set the date back or to enlarge the
numbers or include the citizens of other countries.
Mr. SALMON. Well, of course, that would throw my own figures entirely out.
I made my statement with regard to the Russian refugees; that is with regard
to whether or not the itussian refugees would be permitted to cole In under
this bill.
The CHAIRMAN. Why should we specify certain refugees, particular refugees,
designate them as persons who would be permitted to come In, as persons who
had been driven from their homes or had lied from their homes since the 1st
day of October, 1921. and restrict it to certain laces, when all of that country,
on all of that map. in eastern Europe and Asia Mlinor Is filled with refugees?
Why do you think that it Is necessary for us to miue to their rescue by desig-
nating any certain refugees, or a particular set of refugees?
Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, It seems to me that the reason for that Is within
the very comparatively short space of time a vast number of people have been
driven from their homes, and the only country to which they can migrate to-day
is Greece.
Mr. FIum. Has not that same tiling been happening for the last 10 years?
Mr. SALMON. No; not on the scale of the present time.
Mr. Fuss. They have not been driven from as large a city as Smyrut?
Mr. SALMON. Not only Smyrna, uay dear sir, but It is the whole of Asia
Minor, from which the Turks have said that the Greeks will be permitted to
leave by a certain time, which is simply the Turk's method of saying that they
must get out within a certain time.
Mr. TAYLoR. Did not the same thing exist In Russia?
Mr. Faz. What would be the conditions, what should be done, under such
conditions as they had in Russia, where they did not say that they had to
get out, but as a matter of fact the people did have to get out In order to save
their lives?
Mr. SA iqN.I do not think that they were given much of a chance to get
out of Russia, from what I have been able to learn from the newspapers. That
Is my only source of information.
Mr. FREr. When they were given a chance, they did get out?
Mr. SA.MoN. Titese Russian refugees at Cons'antinople are very largely the
remnants of Wrangle's army. They were given no opportunity to get out.
They got out largely because they were able to hold off the Reds until our
destroyers and certain merchant ships got Into the Black Sea and took them
to Constantinople.
Mr. CABLE. I think during the last several months the Soviet Government
has deported, according to the statements that we see in the papers, some
15,000 persons, who find themselves not in harmony with the Soviet Government.
The CHAIRMAN. There Is a very large number in China that are making
appeals to be admitted as refugees. I have a book here, "Armenia and
Kurdistan," published In 1920 in England for use by the peace conference,
containing matter collected at that time-rather, put out-by the historical
section of the foreign office in London, in which I find this statement:
"It is estimated that the Armenians once numbered over 20,000.000, and the
steady reduction of the population In modern times must be attributed almost
entirely to Turkish persecution in one form or another.
"During the war, and as a result of the deportations and massacres of 1915.
Lord Bryce estimated in i910 that of a total Armenian population in Turkey
of about 1,800,000 before the war, 000,000 were massacre, 600.000 were de-
ported, 800,000 remain In Armenia, and 300,000 survive In Constantinople,
Smyrna, other parts of Turkey or in adjoining territorie.s as refugees. Of
the 000,000 who were stated to have been deported to Mesopotamia in 1915.
the latest estimate received from Aleppo (December. 1918) puts the wimber
of survivors at 90,000 only.
"The Kurds have niso suffered very severely from the vicissitudes of the
war."
And so on.
Now, looking over the chronological summary, you cn begin as early as you
want to. back 833 It.C., but if you begin u.-late as 1877, you find:
1877. Armenians in Russia helping In the war against Turkey.
1878. Treaty of Berlin. The powers press for reforms In Armenia.
"1-'0. Identical note of powers to Porte concerning reforms.
"1881. Asasmmination of Alexander II. Depre&slon of Armenians.
"119. (lerinany refuses to join England In enforcing reforms.
1894-189M. Armenhins (accused of revolutionary schemes) attacked by
Knrds. The powers protest. Wholesale nmssacres. Russia refuses to support
England in putting pressure on the Sultan.
" 1004. Massacres In Mush district.
"1008. Revolution In Turkey. The Armenians support the Young Turks."
The Young Turks are now old Turks, I imagine.
"1009. Deposition of Abdul latuld. Massacre of Adana, etc., by the com-
nmittee of union anti progress.
"1914. Schemes of reformers stopped by outbreak of war.
"1915. Massacre of Armenians on a larger scale by the orders of the Turkish
Government ani with the tacit approval of the Central Powers."
And then right into the war, the attempt of the Allies to settle the matter;
tihe bringing In of 1 of 14 points by former President Wilson, which tried to
settle the question in all of this territory. Now comes the refugee situation.
What are you going to do with it? It is a big problem, I admit.
Mr. SAOtJoN. ,Mr. Chairminmi. when you get to the question of responsibility
itsto what has happened over there, you must not overlook the responsibility
of our own Government during the past two years when we have refused to
recognize tile constitutional, legal, and lawful (1overntuent of Grece. wlwn
we have refused to carry out our solemn agreements with Greece on financial
matters, and due to our action on those two matters-
The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Well, no one member of the Government, or
no one citizen can say that this or that party was responsible for this or that
incident. You can not settle these things. We are hearing from some people
who think that we have a debt of honor to Liberia, which should be paid, and
others think not.
But the question now, and our problem is. must we bring these refugees in
as against other refugees; and if we bring in these refugees will the others
make the sanie appeal for other refugees, both those that were refugees before
these Greeks hecaine refugees nd those that became refugees afterwards?
Mr. SALMON. Mr. Chairman, it you are asking what appeals we are likely
to have, I do not know. I think that you can say that we are obligated to
bring lit some of these refugees from this btulpoint, because we have men in
this country that have come here that are good, law-abiding, upright citizens, to
whom we have extended the privileges of American citizenship, and who have
unprotected sisters, old fathers anti mothers who are i-'ing in a country in
which It Is absolutely Impossible to give them more tlmi a bowl of soup and
sometimes nQt even atroof over their heads. I think that we have certain obli-
gatlons to those people.
The CHAIRMAN. What Is the number that would be affected?
Mr. SALMON. I do not think that the number would exceed 10,000 tlreek,4
and not over 2,000 Armenians.
The CHAIRMAN. Where will they settle?
Mr. SALMON. All over the United States, hecnuse the Greek and Armeniain
population Is scattered all over the United States.
Mr. FRYE. Mr. Chalrnmn, during the first part of tlhe hearings I understood
Mr. Bartoll, in a conversation, to say that there would he about 40,000 that
would come in uider this act; Is that correct Mr. Bartoli?
Mr. IIAKrOLT. Yes, sir; that figure is the number, in ty opinioil. There wouhl
be 80,000 refugees.
Mr. ItAKFR. I do not know-I an going to put this thing in a kind of a question
and a statement. nnd perhaps ask the witness the question. I would like for
Mr. Salmon to discuss tile connection, because tle Greeks came here and took
the opportunity afforded by this Government to become citizens or live here,
that thereby and thereupon the Government of the United States and the people,
irrespective as to the result that iay come to our people and to our Government,
owes a duty to bring all the relatives of those who heretofore have come to this
country. I do not see where our American citizens get that Idea. I would like
for him to explain it. I hear that so much.
Mr. WHITE. I submit that that Is a hypothetical question, and it Is not fair
for its to consider it. We do not make that iropositaill lit this hill.
Mr. IBAs . I did not say anything about this bill, Mr. White.
Mr. WHIT. Well, we are discussing this bill now. Therefore I say that the
question Is not fair.
The CHAIRMAN. The witness Invited questions, and therefore bit off a large
contract. Let me say that if we open the question of refugees, we will have
a situation wherein the quota Is filled; the men come In and fill the quota, then
their families become refugees, and as soon as 1ie tias become established hert
he must save his faniily. If we did not have anything in the bill with regard
to Olit- niul)ers, wizen the ieen got here and got established they wouhl at once
want to bring over their fanllles to make a inlt.
Mr. WIITE. Mr. Chairman, you are making ai argument.
'ile CIAIHMAN. I ain trying to bring this before this witne..
Mr. WHIr& I would llke to have an answer, but I ant not going to take up the
time of this coiiniittee to do that now, Mr. CIairman, because you know, and11l
every niloiber of this committee knows, that this will all be thrashed out in execu-
tive sesqlon of this committee, and if we refrain front the discussion of those
questions. I call nttenthon the other day to tile underlying principles of the
bill which we passed on in December, 1920.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; but that was not free from objection.
Mr. WiriTE. That h'll was based upon the samie proposition, and upon the 54111e
basic idea as this bill is.
Mr. VAILZ. Yes; let us hear the witness.
Mr. WHIT. Could you say how many would come Into the country?
26 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGeES.
Mr. SALMON. I am not supporting this or any other particular bill. I never
read the b!ll until yesterday, and 1 was asked by some people if I would come
down here and give my testimony; asked if I would come down here and appear
before this committee. I am supporting no one thing more than I am simply
trying to give these people-
The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Perhaps we have been on the wrong track. Are
you appearing for the admission of refugees, who are from Turkey, after a cer-
tain day, who have relatives In the United States, provided the relatives can
give a bond for them, preventing them from becomaig lublie charges or other
objects of charity?
Mr. SALMON. I do; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You do support that?
Mfr. SALMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAKER. Irrespective of the numbers?
Mr. SALMON. I would not say irrespective of the numbers; no. I would support
the b*ll us it is drawn, on my ow, estimate, and I would say that iny estimates
were checked lust night with an American who knows more about Greece than
tny olher person, Iossibly in America, Professor Capps, who for two years
was over there at the head of the Red Cross work, and was afterwirnls American
nadster. He went over iny figures very carefully, and his figures and mine
agree as to number, the numbr of people that tight be brought !n.
Mr. RAKER. Would you be willing to have the bill drawn in such a manner that
it would provide it aiaximniu, say, so that It would admit not in excess of 10,000?
Mr. SALMON. It is liy opinion that 10,000 would cover It. I do not think that
there will be more tiatun 10.000 Grtel
Mr. W1ITE. Then. woull this bill, ,in your judgment, admit ani unlimited-
number?
Mr. SALMON. No.
The CIAIRmAN. Proceed.
Mr. SALMON. While I un speaking as an American, citizen, I have a very,
very, vivid understanding of the situation in Greece at the present time. and
I feel that tot only America, but any other country In the world, should do
whatever they cam for the relief of that situation.
Mr. Fnu. You are speaking as an American now?
Mr. SALMON. I am speaking as an American. I have a very vivid under-
standing of the situation in Greece, at the present inoment, and I feel that not
only the United States, but every country in the world, should do what it can
to relieve anti alleviate the conditions there.
Mr. Box. Do you have anly connection with the Greek Legation?
Mr. SALMON. I have no conectlion with thv Greek Legatlon whatever.
Mr. Box. What relation is there, if you know, between Mr. Bartoldi and the
Greek Legation?
Mr. SALMON. I do not know of any relation of any kind.
I will qualify my statement to this extent. During the month of August I
went to Williamstown, as a representative of the Greek Legation, to the Insti-
tute of Politics, because they had no one available in the Legation that was
sufficiently familiar with the matter, so they asked me to go there and they
paid my expenses.
Mr. TAYLOR. When was that?
Mr. SALMOn. In the month of August. The institute was in session through-
out the entire month.
Mr. RAKER. All right. Let me ask you a question. Your business is in
Athens, Greece?
Mr. SALMON%. Yes, sir.
Mir. RAKER. Of course you are interested, are you not. in seeing that every-
thing is done there to build up that country?
Mr. SALMON. There Is no question about that.
Mr. RAxFR. And you feel as though we ought to relieve the situation there;
that is in Athens and Greece and the whole territory, as well us Athens, par-
ticularly and especially, and you think we should take in as many of these
Greek refugees. as have any relatives, as designated in this bill, into the country.
Mr. SALMON . Mr.'Congressman, taking in 10.000 refugees, Is not going to
materially alleviate the situation in Greece. You would have to take In a
million and a half, to relieve the situation.
The CHAIRMAN. That Is the very point that I am trying to get at, in con-
nection with this bill. While it only limits It to the provisions in the bill, do
you not think that there would be propositions to amend it a little later so that
all of them could come in?
Mr. RAKER. If that Is a fact, why put an entering wedge of this kind into the
Congress.
Mr. SALMON. Is it not worth while to sive the lives of 10,000 people?
Mr. RAKER. Yes, sir; it is worth while to save the lives of 10,000 people; but
is it worth while to save the lives of 10,000 people and endanger at the same
time the lives of 40,000,000 people?
Mr. SALMON. Well, I can not see the connection.
Mr. RAKER. I am putting a hylxthetlcal ques ion. You put a hypothetical
question.
Mr. WHrrz. Where do you get 40,000.000?
Mr. RAKER. Let him answer my question.
Mr. WnHTT I think that we should do our best to try to save all that we
can from distress.
Mr. RAKER. Irrespective of what the result is at home?
Mr. SALMON. Mr. Congressman, I should say. in replying to your question,
if you will permit Moe to say it-
Mr. RAKER (interposing). Say anything that you want to say.
Mr. SALMO,,. I should say that your question has no bearing on the subject,
but since the question has been put to me I will answer it as best I can. No.
Now. Mr. Chairman, I would like to go at little fvrther In conntctlin with
the letter which you read and explain the difference In the situation that is
proposed under this bill and the conditions which aire referred to in that
letter.
These people who will be brought in here at the present time under this
*#'l are people who have not been trying to come into Ilis country. They are
petrie who two months ago were living in a fair degree of prosperity. They
had their own houtes. They were living in a country which I submit, with
all due respect to my own country, Is just as pleasant a country to live in as
this is. I do not know of any more delightful town in the world than Smyrna
was before the tire. They were people, many of them well to do--I could stand
here if that would not be too much of an imposition upon the time of the vow-
mittee, and give name after name of Greeks I know here in this country. estab-
lished, well to do, educated, anal whose relatives on the other side up to two
or three months ago were happy, contented, prosperous, and with it fair degree
of the good things of this life. ant had nto more desire of coining here, to
American than you have of going to Asia Minor.
The situation in Greece to-day is that of at country with four million and a
half Ieople that have had suddenly dumped within its borders, practically
over night, through no fault of its own, atmillion ani a half refugees.
The CHAIRMAN. Was it through no fault if its own?
Mr. SALMON. Yes; through no fault of its own for this reason: The Greek
troops went to Smyrna, with the support of the Allies. That Is history. They
went at the request of Lloyd-George. The Greek army never would huve gone
into Asia Minor if it had niot had the promise of allied support. Shortly after
they arrived there, on count of dissention between the Allies, two of them
ceased to back Greece, and one of them started definitely backing the Turkish
revolution, which was also backed by Russian gold. You will find more Russian
gold there than you will find any place else in the world. You will find the
Turkish army armed ant equipped with munitions, goods they bought in
France, and many of theta that were bought by the French Govermuent front
our own supplies. You wlil find French guns, and you will find American
equipment and American uniforms in the Turkish army to-day.
Mr. RAKER. In the Turkish army?
Mr. SALMON. Yes, sir; which were sold to the French, and which equipment
the French, I believe, have not paid for, but have sold to the Turks.
Mr. RAKxrj. American uniforms?
Mr. SALMve. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rmm. And the Turks are wearing them?
Mr. SALMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. TAYLon Has not Greece recently gone through a revolution?
Mr. SAxMON. Yes, air.
The C1HARMAN. How do you think that these refugees should be selected?
Mr. SALMO . Under the terms of your bill, they would be selected after the
petition had been made on this side and examination had been made on the
other side.
Mr. WHim The same under the law as it is now?
The CHAIMAN. What would you do if there turned out to be 50,000 instead
of 10,000?
Mr. WHrr. Mr. Chairman, you have studied this bill very carefully?
Te CHAIRMAN. Yes. Would it apply to any relatives that were here last
year, applying for admission into the United States, not on amount of the
hardships In Asia Minor?
Mr. WiiiTz. Mr. Chairman, I have written an amendment, which I propose
to offer in the committee, which will clarify that situation absolutely.
Mr. BAxmE. Let me ask you this question. These statements which you
have just made to us with regard to the conditions in Smyrna, and the various
conditions, you get that from your personal information?
Mr. SALMOn. I did not get it from personal information. I was not present.
Of course, I have been in the United States since December, 1921.
Mr. ItAKxvi. Yes.
Mr. SALmON. But I know what the population of Greece was at that time,
and I know what the industry in Greece was. I have, or had until the Smyrna
disaster, representatives in Smyrna and Constantinople and correspondents
throughout the entire region who were making more or less regular reports on
the commercial conditions and alsn giving me certain information as to the
general situation.
Mr. It. us. Where did you get the information about the Turks having
American uniforms and the French having bought this stuff from America..
and then having sold the equipment and uniforms, sent it over to the Turks?
Mr. RAL,MO0. I get it now from persons who have been over there. I have
seen at number of people who have been over there.
Mr. RARER. You just get it from them?
Mr. SALMON. I would suggest along that line, if the committee wishes accu-
rate information, which can be had-it has never been published because, in
my opinion. the State Department does not want it published-if you will call
upon Consul General Horton. from Smyrna, I am sure he can give you all
of the first-hand information that you desire.
Mr. IIAK.R. What does Major Love know about it in the War Department?
Mr. SALMON. Who?
Mr. IAIKER. Major Love.
Mr. RAT.MON. I do not know the gentleman.
Mr. IIAKR. Your information, then. is all hearsay?
Mr. SALMoN. It is.
Mr. RAK'R. Just who called upon you to come before this committee?
Mr. SALM .O.. Reverend Bridgeman.
Mr. ItAxKEn. Who is Reverend BrIdgeman?
Mr. SALMION. I can not tell you that. I met Reverend Bridgeman at a meet-
Ing of the Near East Relief Society and had a conversation with hin on the
subject of Greclan affairs.
Mr. WwiTv. Do you know whether or not he iN connected with the Near East
Relief Society?
Mr. SALMON. I do not think so. I do not know.
Mr. RAREM. What 's his nationality?
Mr. SAlMON. He is an American.
The CHAIRMAN. He is an Episcopal minister, is he not?
Mr. SALMON. I think so.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further that you want to offer in connec-
tion with this matter?
Mr. SA rro. I do not think so. Mr. Chairman, except that I want to impress
this fact upon the committee: The newspapers said recently that if the Greeks
in this country were prepared to take care of their relatives over here, that
they should send money over there for their relief, Instead of bring'ng then
over here.
In answer to that, I want to say that It is not a question of the people
sending money to their relatives in Greece at the present moment, for the
reason that tlerei are no houses for them to live in nor occupations for the
people. In old Greece, a year ago, they had 44,000 people engaged in Indus-
try. The rest of the people were agricalturists. mariners, or traders.
It is impossible to swell their industry to take care of the people. They

have no building materials. It Is not possible to take care of them. to give
shelter to the numberof people that have been forced into Greece up to the
present time.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, they are existing.
Mr. SALMO,. The Near East reports, I was told yesterday, are to the effect
that in the neighborhood of Piraeus there are 180 children dying daily.
The CIAIRMAN. Well, we were hearing the same thing from Russia last
year.
Mr. SALMo. Ani, we gave all of the relief that we' could. We sent across
ome $30,000,000.
Mr. RAKim. That was before the war?
Mr. SALMON. Since the war.
Mr. Box. But the gentlemen says that Russii gold is being used to create
that very condition flown there now.
31r. RAKER. I remember that.
Mr. VAILF_ Outside of Russia, it is about the only place that there is any
Russlan gold.
The CHAIRMAN. What is tle next place that you think, perhaps, there will
he any refugees that will want to come Into the ITnited States?
Mr. SALMON. In the Near East?
The ClAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. SALMION. I do not know, 'Mr. Chairmnn. I do not feel nearly as pessi-
mistic as the preceding witness.
The CHAIRMAN. DO you see any of them any place where they are likely
to have a tremendous overflow In that part of the country?
Mr. SALMON. Constantinople.
Mr. RAKFR. There is a danger over there?
Mr. SALMON. Yes. And I would like to be permitted to say here that I
think our ambassador. Ambassator Child, has taken a very unwarranted posi-
tion In recommending that the Greeks stay in Turkey. If the newspapers
report him correctly, he has recommended that they stay In Constantinople,
which means that he is taking upon hiq shoulders the responsibility of the
lives of those Greeks, 300.000 people.
Mr. RA.KEs. Could you give us some estimate as to the number of Bolshe-
viks among these refugees, from Russia, that, if they were permitted to come
Into the United States, would probably destroy this country?
Mr. SALMON. Oh. I can not answer that question, sir.
Mr. RAKeR. There are a good many of them. are there not?
Mr. SALMON. Well. there are not from Greece.
Mr. RAftER. How many Greeks are there In this country that tire violating
the eighteenth amendment? There are 75 or 00 per vent of them?
The CHAIMAN. That Is too involved a question.
Mr. tAKEm.R. No; It Is not: I want to know for the record.
The ('JIAIRMAN. What Is tie Greek population of the United States now?
Mr. SAttoN. The Greek population of the United States. according to the
last eensu.. Is 175,072. Now, I have a tabulation here--
The CmfAnID3AN (interposing). That is. ninnaturaliztel?
Mr. SALMON. No. sIr; that is the number of Greeks who were born ii Greece
proper.
I have a tabulation here which has been worked out by a Greek naturalized
American citizen. an attorney here in the city of Washington. which gives not
only tle population according to the census but attempts to reconee state-
ment as to the population, tiiat there are 352,400 Greeks In time United States.
Of course, the Greeks consider that once a Greek a man iq always a Greek.
The CHAIRMAN. They do?
Mr. SALMON. Yes; and no matter whether lie has denounced his nationality.
having lived In Turkey or any other country and acquired tire nationality of
that country, if they were once a Greek the Greeks regard them and count
them as Greeks.
The CHAIRMAN. DO you think that they would continue to think that, in the
United States, if the United States permitted the Greeks to come here. do you
think that they would continue to consider themselves Greeks?
Mr. SALMo.. I do not think, Mr. Chairman. that they will act In any way
that woult he averse to the interests of the ITn'ted States. because as far as
my own knowledge goes, the ones that have accepted American citizenship are
very radically American, and when they go back to Greece they look down upon
the native Greeks and try to lord it over them.
Mr. Box. May I ask the gentleman a question? 0
The CHAmMAN. Yes.
Mr. Box. In stating the position for the Greek people now in America, when
they come here, have you read the articles on peonage and the padrone system
in the summary of the immigration reports, appearing on pages 443 to 451, and
the one on the Greek branch of that?
Mr. SALMON. I have not.
Mr. Box. On pages 891 to 408 of the same report?
Mir. SALMON. No, sir; I have not read those. I have not made a study of the
Immigration question. I have never read the report.
Mr. Fu:i.r. Mr. Chairman, I think that oght to go in tile record at this
place.
(The matter referred to is as follows:)
STATEMENT SUBMITTED BY H-ON. JOHN C. Rox.
Some people outside and nenbers of this committee speak of the distress in
the Near Fust as If It were new, creating an unusual present but temporary
emergency. Such cmndltions have been recurring lit that region for 3.0(0 years.
Tie story would be even older If history extended hack far enough to itord It.
Witnesses have testified before you that these Greeks are pure Ionln reekss
who have not been mongrelized by race mixture. To refute that. I quote a
few bits of history which I have gathered front a vast mss to the same effect:
"In racial characterlstics the Greeks belong to the Medlterruiteau rave aind
are ak'n to the Iberlan of Spliam and the Ligurian of Italy.
"In recent times education, Intermixture with other races, and commerce
have to a great extent removed their distinctive pecullarlti's.'
"The life of the true Greece was obscured for several centuries, only ap-
pearing as tile peninsula became the object of conquest or an areta of strife."
Front the sixth to the eighth century Slavic peoples from the north crowded
Into tile Balkan Peninsula. The invaders were merged to some extent with the
ancient race and remained in occupancy of Illyria and Thrace. producing it inix-
tare of nationalities which constitutes at the present day one of the chlef
elements of confusion in the puzzling problems of the Balkan Peninsula."
Of the present Greek army it Is said:
"Fifteen per cent of the army recruits call only read. amld ) per cent are
totally illiterate." (Tihe New lntermitonnai ,ncyclopedia. vol .10, pp. 2'2.
293, 297.)
That emergencies similar to thils have been arising for hundreds of years and
that serious consequences may result to outside countries front dealing unwisely
with them is stiva by tile following quotation frotr (ilbo s's ac.'counll of an
occurrence in the third century:
"But the attention of the emperor was most seriously engaged by the Im-
portant inte!!..nee whica tie rc:..Aved f.'om
tiMe civil and ti ilitm-y oflUcrrs who
were intrusted with the defense of the Danube. lie was Informed that the
north was agitated by it furious tempest: that the irruption of the Huns, an
unknown and monstrous race of savages, had subverted the power of time Goths;
and that the suppliant multitudes of that warlike nation, whose pride was now
humbled In the dust, covered a space of many miles along tile banks of the
river. With outstretched arms nind pathetic innuentatoas, they loudly de-
plored theh ,astinisfortunes and their present danger; acknowledged that their
only hope ot safety was in the clemency of the Roman Government; and most
solemnly protested that if the gracious liberality of the emperor would per-
mit them to cultivate the waste lands of Thrace, they would ever hold them-
selves bound by the strongest obligations of duty and gratitude to obey the
laws and to guard the limits of the republic. These assurances were con-
firmed by the ambassadors of the Goths. who impatiently expected from the
neamith of Valens an answer that must finally determine the fate of their un-
Iappy countrymen. The emperor of the East who longer guided by the wis-
doma and authority of his elder brother, whose death happened toward the
end of the preceding year; and as the distressful situation of the Goths re-
quired an Instant and peremptory decision, he was deprived of the favorite
resource of feeble and timid minds, who consider the use of dilatory and
anibiguous measures tim the most admirable efforts of consummate prudence."
"When that Important proposition, so essentially connected with the public

safety, was referred to the ministers of Valens, they were perplexed and di-
vided; but they soon acquiesced in the flattering sentiment which seemed the
most favorable to the pride, the Indolence, and the avarice of their sovereign.
The slaves, who were decorated with the titles of praefects and generals, dis-
sembled or disregarded the terrors of this national emigration; so extremely
different from the partial and accidental colonies, which had been received
on the extreme limits of the empire. But they applauded the liberality of fortune,
which had conducted, front the most distant countries of the globe, a numerous
and invincible army of strangers, to defend the throne of Valens; who might
now add to the royal treasures the immense sums of gold supplied by the pro-
vincials to compensate their annual proportion of recruits. The prayers of
the Goths were granted. and their service was accepted by the Imperial court;
and orders were immediately dispatched to the civil and military governors
of the Thracian diocese to make the necessary preparations for the passage
and subsistence of a great people, till a proper and sufficient territory could
be allotted for their future residence."
V V * I
"It was thought expedient that an accurate account should be taken of their
numbers; but the persons who were employed soon desisted, with amazement
and dismay front the prosecution of the endless and impracticable task; and
the principal historian of the age aos' seriously affirms that the prodigious
armies of Darius and Xerxes. which had so long been considered as the fables
of vain and credulous antiquity, were now Justified i the eyes of mankind
by the evidence of fact and experience. A probable testimony has fixed the
number of Gothic warriors at 200,000 men; and if we can venture to add lhe
just proportion of women, of children, and of slaves, the whole mass of people
which composed this formidable emigration must have amounted to near a
million of persons of both sexes and of all ages.." (Gibbon's Decline and
Fall of the Roman Empire, Vol. II, pp. 499 to 501.)
These imuingritlts atamia I e"tame restle.- mid lawlet amid raise In relhielion.
They defeated the Imperial army, slew the emperor who had admitted thent,
and, being Joined by masses of their kiasaqaeople from the home land, for n
long time overran the country. They were never expelled. Jtht tiey and
other invading Immigrants like then), finally compl-tely subverted the national
life and almost destroyed the civilization of IRone, and ushered In the long
dismal period of hunian history known as the Dark Ages.
The record of that transaction, and of the period to which it belongs, is
found i G1bbon'. I)ecline anti lall of the Rottais Empire, fit Myers' Ancient
illstory, West's Ancient World, ant olher authentic histories covering the
period front A. D. 200 to 800.
That region was invaded and subjugated 1300 years before Christ.
" We know that at a very early date ihekre wits a vigorous race dwellinig
lit central Europe. with the beginnings of a avilizAtion and with some knowledge
of the use of iro. Presumably about 1300 B. C., bands of these fair-haired,
blue-eyed, ox-eating warriors front the North, drawn by the sptlendor anti
riches of the Mycenaum South, broke Into GrUece, as men of the North sa,
many times have brokent Into southern Europ'. These mighty-limbed strangers.
armed with long Iron swords, easily tslablished themselves% among the short.
dark, bronze-weaponed natives, dwelt in their cities, became their chiefs.
married their women and possessed their wealth." (Ancient World, West.
p. 80.)
" What took place iere in the Greek Peninsula a thousand years before
-our era has been likened to what took iace lit the Italian Peninsula in the
fifth century after Christ, when the invading German tribes overwhelmed lite
Sivilization of Rome." (Myers' Ancient History, p. 120.)
25909-28-srR 1-c----3
When "the Turks captured Constantinople In 1453 there was a massacre of

Greek people in which thousands were slain, thousands of women outraged,
and tens of thousands of both sexes enslaved. The woeful story extends down
to now. Practically every witness before your committee who answered in-
quiries on the point expressed the fear that things as bad or worse are ahead
and must continue indefinitely.
I call your attention to the population of all that vast region, consisting of
scores of millions of antagonistic intolerant races and religions, and remind
you that no strong guardian appears to keep the peace among them. I see noth-
ing to change the current of history as It has flowed through that part of the
world for 8,000 years. You are not dealing with a problem of to-day merely,
but with a problem older than America and much older than modern Europe.
It Is folly to treat it as a temporary emergency.
America has sympathized with the Armenians because they are Christians.
America now sympathizes with the Greeks because of their past history and
present distress. These refugees came from both races. Their present plight
is due to defeat and withdrawal of the armies of Greece. Greece cut a queer
figure in the recent World War. At first its German King sided with Ger-
many. Later he was dethroned. Later still a German prince was called to
rule over the Greeks. Now he has been banished. Greek officers conducted
themselves so shamefully during the recent war with the Turks that they were
executed. They were either grossly guilty or the present Government of
Greece is corrupt and cruel. Consul General Horton, stationed at Smyrna at
the time of the recent horrible occurrences, testified before your committee
that the Greek Army, in its retreat before the burning of Smyrna and the
massacres there, had engaged in practices of a similar kind upon their re-
treat; that their general told him In advance that his army would have to
engage in such practices. Nothing can excuse the horrible crimes committed
by the Turks or equal them in enormity, but the Greeks. by similar practices
Just a few days before, had furnished them a horrible excuse, which they
probably did not need. You have race hatred against race hatred, religious
intolerance against religious intolerance, burning against burning, murder
against murder, cruelty against cruelty, following the precedents of thousands
of years and with those who are worsted now clamoring to us for an asylum
and for subsistence, Just as the Goths clamored to the Romans 1,000 years ago
In this connection I want to insist that whatever 'may have been the faults
or mistakes in America's foreign policy, no mistake or weakness in our foreign
policy makes us responsible for the woes of ' 3 foreign world to an extent
which obligates us to take their unhappy ti..sands, scores of thousands, or
millions Into our own borders to help reproduce here the conditions from
which they flee. Some of the very gentlemen who are before you urging the
admission of some thousands of these fugitives have based their demand for
the admission of these people on a statement that America is responsible for
their condition in part, at least. If America is responsible at all, I an. afraid
the bloody blot can never be washed out; but I do not believe that our people
should be made to atone for a mistake in foreign policy by their Government
in the manner here proposed. I quote from the News Bulletin of the Foreign
Policy Association, dated November 17, 1922:
"AMERICA WATCHES HELPLESSLY.
"The crisis In Constantinople continues desperately tense. It is fraught

with possibilities of tragedy of incalculable proportions. America stands
by helpless, watching intently and hoping almost against hope that peace may
be maintained and the Christian populations saved from slaughter and the
Turks from the inevitable bloody retaliation. Washington satisfies itself with
'observing.'
"WHAT IS THE UNITED STATES DOING?

"The United States does next to nothing. If a peaceful solution Is found,
this Government will deserve not of the credit. If the terrible calamity antici-
pated by many observers becomes a reality, the United States will inevitably
be drawn in. If massacres were to follow the withdrawal of the allied con-
tingents, it Is doubtful if Washington could resist the imperative demand for
action which, incited by evangelical forces throughout the country, might sweep
away all counsels of conciliation and restraint."
AMMICAN ISOLATION NONUXISTZN'.
"American isolation is a myth. The United States can not disassociate her-
self from a European question like the Near East. It touches too deeply many
of the most cherished interests of millions of our citizens. The difficulty of
the United States playing a successful rOle as mediator, or the even more
modest r0le of offering its good offices, has been made much more difficult, if
not hopeless, by the announcement of a policy of aloofness. No such announce-
ment, even when phrased by a brilliant advocate like Secretary Hughes, can
free Washington from its full measure of responsibility. Such a declaration
can have one result. It prevents effectively this Government having an op-
portunity for constructive helpfulness before the crisis becomes insoluble."
Mr. B. P. Salmon, former president of the American Chamber of Commerce
in Greece, appeared before you urging the passage of the bill Introduced by
the gentleman front Kansas, Mr. White. In the issue of the News Bulletin
mentioned above Mr. Salmon has a signed article, from which I quote:
"AMERICA'S RESPONsinLITY.
"Part of the responsibility for this situation (to-day in the Near East) is
due to our own lack of a definite foreign policy at Washington which in turn
is due to the fact that the American people themselves have no well defined
ideas on foreign policies, and therefore the State Department has been content
to do nothing in the Near East, thinking that this would be acceptable to the
American people. * * * The situation has become increasingly difficult
and the need of urgent action in connection with the final settlement is in-
creasingly apparent."
"Another matter on which I believe American sentiment should be clearly
defined is our responsibility toward Greece in connection with the so-called
three-power loan of 1918. In this matter, we have not only refused to pay
the balance due under the loan agreement, but what is worse, we have held
Oreece to a clause of the agreement which provides that she shall not pledge
security for further exterior loan until the so-called thrte-power loan has
been liquidated. In olher words, we have held the Greek security, while we
have only advanced a third of the money for which the security was given.
It is my personal belief that this loan agreement Is a valid contract antd that
the United States is morally and legally bound to recognize it as such. If, on
the other hand, the State Department can show that it is not either a legal or
moral obligation, they should reach some agreement with Greece on the subject.
The great problem which confronts Greece to-day Is that of constructive
relief which will enable then to place as rapidly as possible the hundreds of
thousands of refugees pouring into the country into gainful occupations, turn-
ing them froth a liability into an asset.
* 4 * * * * 4
"One of the first things that will have to be done will be to clear up the
unfortunate situation created by the present status of the American loatt to
Greece.
0"B. P. SALMON."
In a signed article appearing in a recent Issue of the New York Evening IPost.
Mr. Samuel L. M. Barlow says, among other things:
"The refugees are over the monthly quota, over the yearly quota, from Asifa
Minor. Some 50,000 of them, having relatives in this country to whom to go,
are knocking for admittance.
* 4 * * 4 4 4
"But Washington is alarmed. There is an air of foreign entanglement about

thi. and we must not be entangled. But we are; we are entangled I We are
entangled by a generous gesture!
entangled tip to our honor."

"We tire
If a mistake has been made In our foreign policy It does not entail upon the
people of the United States the obligation to provide a home for the people
34 ADMISION Or NEAR EAST REFUGBS.
made unhappy and homeless by the racial and religious antipathies of the
regions Involved. The acceptance of such a consequence would bring upon its
serious calamity, if not early, ruln.,
In an effort to persuade you to report favorably a measure providing for the
admission of some thousands of these refugees, the number of which witnesses
estimate at from 5,000 to 100,000, some have extolled the virtues of the Greeks
as prospective citizens of the United States.
That the people of tll that region are mongrels, mixed and intermixed from
invading and near-by races from the north, front the brown people of the east,
and the black people of the south, is well known to every student. That they
are Incapable of working out the problems of government and protecting then-
selves against the destructive forces moving among them is made plain by
their present plight and by conditions prevailing among them since antiquity
and proni.sing to continue forever. That such people will not contribute to
what is best in the life of America Is plain.
I call your attention to the fact that there is a vast system of peonage or
slavery practiced by, the Greek people in the United States now. I refer, gen-
tlemen, to the extensive report made on this subject by the Immigration Conk-
mission, composed of such men as Senators l)illingham ant Lodge. Hon. .oltil
L. Burnett, then of the House, and Prof. Jeremiah W. Jenks, which will be
found on pages 391 to 408 of volume 2 of Abstracts of Reports of the Iinmlgra-
tion Commission. I ask that the clerk Insert these extracts from that report
which I am handing him:
"The poorer classes in Greece, and particularly those of the provinces from
which bootblacks are drafted,. have little ambition to educate their children.
because they themselves are to a large degree Ignorant and unable to appre-
elate the value of education.
"The Greek peasant is therefore more conctricil with the income he is ubhe
to derive by placing his children at work than with clucating them."
In countries where the laboring classes are wholly wider the control of
their employers, the term ' padrone' is applied to the manager, superintendent.
foreman. or proprietor of any nlert-antile establishment. ati sgtifles that in the
person designated as padrone absolute authority Is vested to control enployees.
He has the right to prescr,be the character of the work that each laborer shall
perform, to increase or decrease at will the hours of work and the wages re-
ceived, and to lnish hih physically at times."
"Among the Greeks tile padrone system is in operation in every city of the
united States of over 10,000 population, with few exceptions, and is continue
In the main to shoe-shining establishirents, although it is to a considerable
extent prevalent among railroad laborers in the Western States and among
flower, fruit, and vegetable vendors In Chicago. The aliens utilized by the
system in peddling and In shoe shining are as a rule front 12 to 17 years of age.
while those employed on railroad work are generally adults."
"There are several thousand shoe-shining places in tileUnited States oper-

ated by Greek-s. and with few exceptions they are nnder tihe padrone systemm"
* 0 0 0 0 0 0
lit boys. In their helplessness, believe that were it not for tht' opportunity
of employment offered then by padrones they would starve because of their
Ignorance of the language and labor conditions in this country."
"In some cases padrones utilize the following means to compel boys to re-
main in their employ: As they pay their help their wages at the end of each
year, as a rule forwarding direct a draft to the boy's parents in Greece, they
claim they are short money, and fall in arrears in such payments. As a result
the boys remain in their service in the hope of receiving what is due them.
On the other hand, the padrones avail themselves of all technicalities in law.
secure numerous continuances, and. without exception, appeal all such cake!.
The young plaintiffs become gradually disheartened and abandon the suits,
deeming such a course the least expensive and most logical, awl convinced th.tt
there is no justice for the poor in this country."
* * * 0 0 0 0
"Though the shoe-shining business is tile main field of the system in tile
"United States, quite a number of Greeks are brought here In violation of law
and are placed at work on railroads in the Western States under lie Idrone
System." * *
.$He is generally brought here from Greece on an agreement, secured by a
mortgage or a promsfory note, to pay from $180 to $250 for his steamship
passage and show money.' Upon reaching his destination in the United
States, he Is usually charged $10 labor agent's fee, for putting him to work;
he is charged $1 per month interpreter's fee, as it Is commonly called, this
being the monthly tribute of each laborer to the interpreter of the gang, not-
withstaling the fact that be Is a atilar'ed employee of the railroad company.
Every three months the laborer Is told to contribute $1 or more, Intended as a
present to the foreman or roadmaster, and every spring and fall he may be
ctlled upon for another $10 by the labor agent, who promises to prevent his
discharge from work through his influence with the roadmaster or those
higher up.
"'The money for steamship tickets is often furnished by the padrone inter-
preters who are. In nearly all instances. in partnership with their relatives
In Greece: that Is. they divide their profits." 0 0 *
"It is, In my opinion, more humane and infiniltely better for young Greeks
to lie refused admission into the United than to he permitted to land If they
art intended for such ePnplayment." (N. Salopoulos, Greek consul general,
N-v. 10, 1910.)
Several Greek physicians In Chicago. I a joint letter to the Immigration
('onamiloner. dated November 10, 1910. say, among other things, the follow-
ing:
" We deem this occupation highly injurious and destructive to the physique
of young Greek boys, and believe that the United States. Government would
do hI tter to deport them rather than to allow them to land if they are destined
to this employment under existing conditions."
Without exception, all tile Greek physlcinns of our large cities who were
interviewed on this subject expressed substantially the same views as those
emibulolied in the foregoing letters."
Not all of the immigrants froin Greece and Turkey belong to the class men-
tomd or to other objectlonable groups. But the simple truth Is that they
are very heavily represented among the undesirable kinds. For Instance. the
evhence submitted to your committee in its hearings upon this proposition
shows that venereal and other dangerous diseases are widely prevalent among
these refugees.
In the annual report of the Commissioner General of Immigration for 1914
will lie found the report of n special Investigation of inmigratlon condltloms In
eastern Europe and As!atic Turkey. made by Mr. W. W. Husband to Hon. A.
'amilnettl. then Coumuissioner General of Immigration, which position Mr.
iluahand himself now holds. lit that report Mr. Husband repeatedly states
that diseases which bar Immigrants front admission to the United States and
Cmmilmi are' widely prevalent it that region. The following are. some of his
remarks on that subject:
"Diseases which liar Immnigrants from the United States and Ctminila are
very prevalent lit Turkey. hut is a rule emigrants are not examined in this
reogird until arrival at some intermediate port. Although strongly opposed by
the French Academy of Medicine. emigrants afflcted with tritchontn and other
diseases are fr 'ely admitted it Marseille."
"It Is said thaitIn one quarter of I'Parls trachoma has become quite prevalent
because of Syrian Immigrants who have settled there."
Mr. Husband even suggested that because of the number of diseased Imnmi-
grants coming from tit region through France and England some agreement
be made between tle United States and Fngland " ti nder which better protect
tion will be afforded the United States In that regard."
Mr'. Chairman, every group which presses a demand for the admission of
1lieIs to the I'llited States (.i'Ints that an .. iergency exists in their case. That
was the claim made three years ago wien you were asked to report a bill
nauthorizing the ndmisslon of 4.000.000 of Russians and Italians and their
fantilles. When the committee was urged to report a bill providing for the
.-
86 ADMISSION. OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
admbsdon of 40,000 Chinese. cooles to Hawal, It was claimed in support of

the measure that a most acute emergency existed. In all of the numerous
measures for the admission of the relatives of foreign-bomn people In the United
Stte an effort Is made to show a distresing emergency In each Instance.
:,On the two occasis when we have taken down the bars Imposed by the 8 per
*cent restriction It hasbeen done under the claim that an acute emergency
existed. Here comes another emergency. Every case of hardship and distress
presents an emergency to those concerned. There are enough such emergencies
to absolutely overflow America with their victims and to create here an
emergency, a tragedy, equal to the worst. When we have foolishly listened to
a sufficient number of such appeals to fill America with the pandemonium and
woe which now curse so many parts of the world, who will relieve our children
from the distress which we are cooking up for them now?
Mr. WHT. I want to ask the witness two or three questions before he leaves
the stand, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. RAxz. Before you get to that, I want to get some ideas from the witness
* as to what he means by once a Oeek always a Greek. Do they mean by that,
. those born In Greece, or If they are members of the Orthodox Church, they are
..always Greeks?
Mr. SALMON. Simply this: The reigning King of Greece does not call himself
the King of Greece, but the King of the Greeks.
Mr. RAKE. And they also hold him out as the ideal wherever they go?
Mr. SALMON. That has come about, Mr. Congressman, In this way, due to the
fact that the Greeks were In what Is now called Turkey long before the Turks
-were there. The population of large sections of Asia Minor, Eastern Thrace,
-as well as Greece,. was Greek. The Greeks have retained their allegiance to
Hellenism during the 400 or 500 hundred years that they have been under
Turkish subjugation, have clung to their national and religious feelings. They
did that because they stuck tenaciously to their Ideals; that is, they were
Greeks first and they were citizens of the Turkish Empire second.
Mr. RAKER Have they any of that stuff In them now, In this country, when
they come over here and become American citizens?
Mr. SALMON. I would not say so: not here.
Mr. RAxiK. All right.
The CHAMMAN. Now, this Is quite a complete table that you have submitted,
and I think that we had better place it In the record: There are 12 pages of it cov-
*erlng the Greeks in the United States. It Is stated by the geographic divisions,
the total population In the States, then it Is divided Into percentages of Greeks
from the following countries: Russia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Turkey in Europe,
Albania, Asia Minor. Palestine, Syria, and Turkey In Asia.
Then It Is again divided Into Greeks from Greece proper, Greeks from other
-countries, Greeks born In the United States, and the total from the census and
other sources.
So you see, folloting the witness's own statement, when they speak of Greeks
In the United States, and they become citizens of the United States, they divided
themselves right away Into people of other nationalities, who are considering
themselves Greeks.
(The mater referred to Is as follows:)
GREEKS IN THE UNITED STATES.
ICOmped by Soterlos Niboson.
Populationof the UnitedStater, ceneu of 1920, by geographicdi 'os.
Native and foreIgn born. Greeks.
SBorn in Total
Total. White. Negro. Indian. Chinese. Japanese. An other otr a t ndca
: of o l°nub!.M
goe
~~(eeusue (other
ore and othe
1o0., -
NW England.. . 7,40k 7,316,0 79,061 1,71S 3,002 347 is I1,8,654 32,186 3 2 00

Middle Atantic.... 22,261,144 21,041,840 000,193 5,940 8,812 3,205 1,103 4,9M2575 44,001 13,481 al- 1060
At1ti ......3,09, 272 9,648940 4,320; 120 13673 1,824 360 355 315,92 11,449 984 if,6 20,0%0
21,4754320962 514,584 1.,9m 3043 927 402 3,222,279 45,125 5,692 30,173 00,0m
EatWot'3599,07 0,67,54 2%m3,=3 1,623 642 as 28 71,92 2,014 3262600
West Nort m iii 12,54,4 122387 27,52 37,203 1,678 1,21 185 1,371,961 1120 1,9
I'm m -
W t outh C tr nl::: 10,242241 5115,727 2,03,579 00,618 I,53 578 188 459,333 3463 45e %,057 1,009
Mountain ......... 3;36101 3213,89 30,801 76,899 4,39 0,9 371 453 225 93 52"3 1 14,60
Pacfi * 56,81 5,385,08 47,790 31,011 j34,255, 3,490 , 68 1,608685 16455 1,198 1634 34,60
Tota............... 106,710,620 9#,8201 10,468131 244,437 61,639 111,0101 9,488113,71%,754O 17I7 28,00 17004 38000
Greeb and other nationalitiesin the UnitedStates, by eographicditaion.
Greeks in the United States. by geographicdivision, 'Ath total population of diviions.
Cowries. [Ges
Russia Rumaa
New Engnd ......... 7,400,909 1,473 155

Middle Atlantic..... 22,261,144 7,M3 ,9 2m,m 60,=W
South Atlatic . 1390,272 4M1 106 3,9 9 0,000
East North Centra ......... 21,475,543 2,350 17,W6 30,MK
Et South Central ............
West North Central. 12,544,20 1,17
74 ~ 1,485
20
345
West South Central:...........
10,31M224 146 30
Mountain .............. 3,336,101 266 50 2,067 6,00 s
Paefle................. 1347 14,00
,.5,71 4531 155
Total.................... 14,00 , ,1l0 147,M j 350,00 t
tnl
I.'
to
"d
Greeks in the United States, by geographicdivision with total population of Stae.
Countries. I rekL
II ......... lira
Bora In TOW
Turkey two
United
in Albania A"i Palestine
WsItai Rumanial Dulgaria Minor (5 per
0 . (other 8tates
coIr (Sp I Europe1 (25per
(SperOMM 4nt). 1920.e (other
cent). (50 Per cent).
Cent). cent). irom
cent). and
other
1-I - I-i - I - -1-1--

KWXHOWLAND.
768,014 671 5 66 403 •21 1,218 217
M .....ln ... 118 44 5,80 91 1,000.0
403,063 25 38
..........
New EampsIr .............. 191 6 10; 627W2 1 167 31 802
352,429 7
Vematt....
3,85,356 1,445 120
.....°...°
1,947 1I
1
14
W:~
7,128
1:285
1,247 20,441 2,364
261
7,196
odd 60439
................ 8,055 370 45 45 142 1k219
2041 17 3851
69 50 1,390 9,000~
.13W,719 1,202I 33
147,371
............ 3,128 214 631 2,819 581 271 11,l8t 1,685 32,186 3,382 2,222 0,000
-mmm -l -
!Mmm, - I--- wm -
MIDDiL ATL.1T4V.
New Yk ...... 10,38,227 52,2i)

. 40,116 614 2,050S 415 55 1,061 8,12 2,64 26,117 9,32t 14,M3 A000
3,155,90 73,57 4,56 66 196 54 106 160 2052 14*451 1,24 ,226 701
New Jer
Pensylvans . sy...... a.
8,7W,017 161,124 11,230 656 28W 687 154 ,312
528 541 13,=89 2 16,201 33,000
703,8M .
............ 53,910 1,336 2,534 1,156 814 1,4801 15,5011 3,521 44,01 13,481 31,0 00,000
a
T o ................... - ... -"
- -_I-- -,,
OlE ATLANIC. 0
Delaware. =,03 2,244 1O1 ......... .... ..... .. 10 2 6 2 30 3,ODD
1,449,661 241,791 537 is 19 1 1,735
5,181 861 5 72 3 19 711 28 1,207 121 1,672 3,000
,437,571
:23W,187 5,421 165 17 32 4 23 231 :a5 54 1796, 120 1,084 3,00
Va i r ...................
i 142 195 IN 63 4,00
1,463,701 3,911 625 98 23 2 15 2D 1,236
211,589,123 932 31 1 17 ...... 4 .22 5982. 19 2,8981 3,311
West..irgi..a.. 1,683,724 1,187 26 1 10 ......... 6
. 2 396 1 g 33 Im
North...o 3,452 111 5 21 1 16 16 473 33 1473' 75 3,4 U,01
ina.. 2,01,82
9,470 1,243 472 16 6 3 15 16 33 23 1,406 92 3,10 5000
OW aro..in....
..
.......
161 2163 10
48,32 19 =4333 13 33
32 1,44 o8n 17,56 30,00
00-
FAhT NORTI C4TKA..
Ohio................. 5,769,394, 43,60 13,069 2,5 569 432 145 IM:S 3,660 492 j 13,540 9,562 25,00
India.......... ... 2,930,390' 7,673 431 70 74 33 26' 717 125 4,182 3.0 478 5,29
I-'
2,7311
6 238' 940 111 151 75 232 1,148 427 16495 16, 742 25,000
Illinos ................ 6,415,240. 117,899 126 1,20 3;ooo
m 3,668,412: 45,313
T.a .................... 6,3311 1,692 179 291 16 3,
2,632253 - 21,447 .970 20 36 101 43 96 3m 795
90,0
m = ='I -
Total ............... ..... 36, 29,338 5,806 1,035 1,019 422 662 9,72 1,676 , 135 5,692 39,173
EAT q0171 C12ITRAL.
Kentucky ...............
2,416,630' 2,736 1921 21 22 116 309 16 401 73 i 1,026 1,500
5 215 49 490 I 1,;800
2,=3,8851
1,78,1
Mahsbms .....................
7.,1
2,262
82
12
931 is5
5 .......... ...
221270i
....... 2 16 482
Sa 915
0 1I 56
Mubdsppi ....................
Total ................... I 7.405
............ iu 51 501 23: 1.501 5so 2,0141 225 3,76 3,m o
TAW-
I=M= 441
-- 5__
I =a) ,1_ 23.. _ " I t - , i i
wuc WORTH1
CINITRAL.
31 41 818 641 %,391 390 3,M
Minesota .................... 2,i87,125 16100 2,385 456 .36 2S~
IowMa ,401,021 7,319
.......................... 10 22 512 41 ,4 145 471
.,404,055 1 769 1,647 145 44 202 21 6 848 62 3;022 4017 3,571
Missouri....................... 18 430 413 167
Noeth Dakota............ 646,872 29,617 3 5 29
Sou Dakota .............. 63,,547 11,193 154 97 3 1 255 9 3M5 -141
307
484
..
Nebrak .......... 1,206,372 15,718 37. 61 8 14 414 29 1,'0 1,20
Kanss....................... ,7 ,257 12,060 I 281 35 GI 2 41 12 290 21 0s0 in3 37
i --I 1 -I f -- I I
Total ................... - 10166 i
.......... 766
.1....... ,u1
Mi 124' 262r 1 r 1421 3,40 2Ii37 ~u]_
YE~ S 5 I CEMRAI..
62 17 16 213 27 21 23
Arknsa ....... ... . ..! 204
1
62
14 2 15 954 610 82 279
.............
oUMISM 1 14 619 102
If 1 691 69i I,9
Teas ................ 4,6,29 057 443. 70 75~ 8 I 45 105 1,578 1,97 205
- - - 3,4j3 = 4__
6,29 •
........ - ?lo
Total...................
Greek, in the United States, by geographic ditision with total population of States-Continued.
Countries. Greeks.
I
Poj~ula. BornIn Total
11On. Turkey From From the from
Russia Rumania B In Albania Asia Palestine, ria Turey Oreece
(Spar Europe1 (28per I 1 (5Per (5pw iAsia United. cents
08
(other State s ad
__!) c.ent). (n0 cl). cent). 01). (other othe
Mo ......................
ntana 2W 3"
Idaho......................... 431,816
125,412 51 2 1 122
1,482: 71 716 3 , i~
WoMe i .................. 100,3.0 10wI an4 1,82*

2541 8 20
A uizonaa
...................... =6 31 316
U .. a................... ..
77.407
6
37 .
413; 12,00
Nevada ....................... 26 I 134j
= SI
4,M
.Us[ I I
5 7O 5 5L......
.... .... I. .......
o.. 36,Mg i 1,053' 821 72; 143 471f 72,' =.=6
1 1 I 3,191 14,M1
•.. . 5
9,4J...
PACIFIC.
Oregton
Ca .....................
liforn........... 1 3,426,861
Total..........................
73,8
11,124.
6,9nh;
27,k
4,
1 ,327 i
422;
332
2,40,
3,177!
267
214
271
7521
229
41
2H:
5M!~
9
1:
43
1551
42:
151
176'
=
is
8
1ee
101
1
1,702
2 4,214
AM
1313'f
anu5 16,456i
,
330
126
732
1, US
I 1,4%
M
16,3471
6,00i0
3,0
KOm
;tzenship status offorig&.born wAites, 2l years of age and orer, by birth.
(Censms of 1920.
ForelMinborn whites 21 years of age and over. Greek%.
Naturalized. From other Born in the United Stat, ire-

Country of birth.
Snnmtries. spective of age.
Total. I first Aliens. Ship not .. ..........
Papers reported. Number Number
umber Per cent Per cent. ( Geogphie disions. (private
sources , sources).
Rumi.....................................1,3,7 1-.21,r 50.:

530 42. 1.i,:
o
Bulu2ia ....... , 37,463 3,436 5
42.............................2..........
194 Middle Atlantic ........ 1 O
0,964 1. I.16 11.7 1.607 6.660 440 5- .7 Suh tanic::X
Turkeyinurope..............................:::.... 4,601 96 21.0 Grb5 , $ 173 50 4
Alt.. .......................................... EastNorth 39113L..
Tuk F 2,5.7
46 1 1.1' 11.7 t 13 2.39,5O44 7 Mouta.............3996 17.
A.Albia..............................................
Paesin 3
o 5 1.3 WStt 113 92 Est ... 3.,261
2,"4' 7.36 34.4 36 West CeMn ...
retee......................................76.............1
-4%T9"/
.. 2,6,4 .1S.
3 : 1. WA' Iw 5oO 48Ws1ouh65M:: 6' 74
..................... t.5 ,-,72Mutan....... 39

........................................................... ......... %24.4,...........P17,367
-,Z 8,8726.2.7
.. ..................
Toter ... 39 ga iti
..........
i. ....................
_................................................ .
,,4.,M ......... ............
c.reeke idam-4 :
Greece proper (cert.,m
of 19X)......................
Otre ..........................
ntr ........................ ................. ..................................... 2....-
2
oa. ..........................................................................................-......-...-
Total.. ".. .........
44 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST BEFUGEES.
Mr. RAKR. The most remarkable thing that has been developed In these hear-
ings, according to my mind, Is the fact that while the Government of the United
States has failed to do so, each one of these nationalities has maintained a
minute record and classification of their own people. Do you not think that that
is a remarkable thing, Mr. Salmon?
Mr. SALMON. Well, I can not say that this Is a minute record. This is an
attempt to show and equalize the census record with the Greek's Idea as to the
number of (treeks that there are here. You will notice that they include Ameri-
can born, and there have been 175.000 people of the Greek race born In the
United States who are American citizens-
Mr. WHITE. Mr. Chairman, what is the purpose of this table?
The CHAIRMAN. This table, the witness states, is entitled "Greeks in the
United States," compiled by Soterlos Nicholson, an American citizen.
Mr. SALMON. Mr. Nicholson is an attorney located in the Southern Building,
Washington. D. 0. He served as a captain through the war it the American
Army and has been an American citizen for some years. Of course, he can
explain that table very much better to the committee than I can myself.
Mr. Famn. Is he of Greek extraction?
Mr. SALMON. Yes. sir.
Mr. WHITF. I want to ask the witness, Mr. Chairman, have you any state.
meant to make on the subject of the statement of the preceding witness. Mr.
Stoddard. as to the probability of 25,000,000 refugees front Anatolia within the
period of time he stated?
Mr. Box. He did not say Anatolia.
Mr. WHITE. Well. he said Turkey.
Mr. Box. He said Levant. He said Russia, that whole region, including all
the Balkans and all of the rest of that territory in there.
Mr. WHITE. I did not understand him so, Mr. Box. because lie was asked about
the Balkan States. as I remember, afterwards.
Mr. Box. He was first asked if the bill would admit all those refugees, and.
second. what he thought the possible number of Inhabitants of the region he faid
been discussing-the Near East-and the possible number of refugees from that
section might be.
Mr. WHITE. Well. Mr. Ilox, my understanding of the genatlema&n's statement
was that It covered tie refugees from Turkish territory in Asia--
Mr. SALMON (interposing). I should say. if I may be permitted to, that my
recollection Is that he rererred to the Near East, and the Near Est is a very
easily defined term. sir.
The CHAMMAN. Will you define it, calling out the countries?
Mr. SALMON. The Near East Includes Greece, Turkey, Rumania, the south-
ern part of Russia, and the countries surrounding the Blaek Sent.
The CHAIRMAN. What are the names of those countries?
Mr. SALMON. You will par-don me, sir, but they lmtage so Im-l., andasts
rapidly, that It Is hard to tell.
The CH-.AIRMAN. This map was made in 1921.
Mr. SALMON. It includes the territory surrounding the Black Sea. Turky--
Mr. RAKEn. Turkey litAsia?
Mr. SALMON. Turkey In Asia, and Turkey in Europe.
The CHAIRMAN. Georgia?
Mr. SALMON. Georgia, Armenia, Rumania.
Mr. Box. Egypt?
Mr. SALMON. Kurdistan.
The CHAIRMAN. Anything else?
Mr. Box. Did not he Include Egypt?
Mr. SALMON. Syria, Egypt, yes.
Mr. WmT. Did you hear the statements of Mr. Stoddard? What did you
think of them?
Mr. SALMON. Well. answering your question. I want to say that no man
in his right mind would make such a statement, and I would like to amplify
that a little bit. One of the three books which Mr. Stoddard said he had
written, and I have read them carefully, Is In the main, a statement to th:
effect that there Is going to be a great Mohammedan movement which will
result eventually in a religious war, and his fear is that the Mohammedans
are going to wipe the white race off the earth.
Mr. WHIT. It is a chimerical theory.
Mr. SALMON. Yes, air.
ADMIUSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 45
Mr. Wwmi. It might be designated as a figment of the brain.
Mr. SALMON. I agree with you entirely.
Mr. WlrriL I wan to ask you this question: Do you know of any of the
Balkan States now established, the free States, failing in getting their free-
dom from the Ottoman Empire?
Mr. SALMON. I do not.
Mr. W Tlr You do not?
Mr. SALMON. No, sir.
Mr. WHrm.. I want to ask you this question: Is it not true that the
Turkish Government is a government of Islamism?
Mr. SALMON. It Is.
Mr. WHrrE. Is it also not true that each country subjugated and brought
under Ottoman control is immediately Islamized as rapidly as it Is possible to
do so?
Mr. SALMON. No; I would not say that.
Mr. WHIT. Well, has not that been past history?
Mr. SALMON. No, sir. In the past the Turks have permitted the Christians
to maintain their own form of religion except that when the Christians began
to be prosperous or too numerous the Turks found some way of exterminat-
Ing enough of them so that they always hold control. The Turks wished the
Christians present there to do the work. The Turk wants to be a tax col-
lector, policeman, soldier, petty Government official, grafter.
If you will pardon me, may I amplify that just a little bit?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Mr. SALMON. In Angora recently the Government has decreed that Turkey,
being a Mohammedan country, the Christians should not be permitted to
establish themselves there. They will welcome Christian corporations, like
Americans, English, French, having capital to Invest, but they have recently,
by decree, Issued at Angora, decreed that tme Christian companies, banks, or
other organizations must employ 100 per cent Turkish staffs. In other words,
you can go over there and Invest your money, but you must employ Turks.
Mr. WHIT&. I want to ask the witness this question: Do you regard the
expulsion of the foreign population, the Greeks, Armenians, and other non-
Turk peoples from the Province of Smyrna as a commercial proposition or
as In line with their ancient, and present, policy of religious Intolerance and
national hatred?
Mr. SALMON. I think that national hatred Is first.
Mr. WIrE First?
Mr. SALMON. Yes. Religious Intolerance Is probably a secondary matter.
Mr. WHITE. And those you regard as the predominating inspirations for this
movement?
Mr. SALMON. Yes.
Mr. Wnr. And the Turkish justification therefor?
Mt. SALMON. The Koran says if your infidel neighbor-and, the Koran Is
the Turkish law, not only their religious, but civil law-the Koran says, if
your infidel nblghbors live with you In peace and do not trouble you In any
way, let them live, but If they trouble you-mind you, that word "trouble"
is an elastic term-if they trouble you, take any measures you see fit.
Mr. WHT&. Well, those are the statements I wish to bring out. I just want
to ask you one more question In passing.
Mr. Box. I want to ask you a question about the Koran. Are additions being
made to that book, or is it just as it was published several hundred years ago?
Mr. SALMON. Well, I think In a way it is possibly the same as the Bible. A
translation made" to-day of the Koran might be somewhat different from a
translation made several hundred years ago.
Mr. Box. But it is a closed book, was a closed book several hundred years ago?
Mr. SALMON. It is a closed book; yes, sir.
Mr. WITE.. I want to ask you one further question. Now, this is known to
everyone, and I base this question on that common knowledge that the French
and the Italians have secured very important concesslons.in Mesopotamla and
other parts of the Ottoman Empire in Asia. Is there the same prejudices
against what might just as aptly be designated as parasitical tendencies; is
there the same prejudices against those investments and those commercial ad-
ventures there under those concessions, which have been obtained by the French
and Italians, as the former witness claims was directed against these residents
of Smyrna In their treatment?
Mr. SALMON. I do not think so.
Mr. Wmv. You think not?
46 ADMISSION OF NEAR BAST REIUGFMS.
Mr. SALMON. No, sir; because the Turk has made his bargain when lie gave
these conceselons and he has had value received.
Mr. Wim. That Is what I understood, but I wanted to heer your statement
on that.
Mr. SALMON. I would like to add to that that the Turks at the present time
have taken the stand that no more concessions will be given to anyone, to any
company, except companies organized under Turkish law, lim which the Turks
shall control 51 per cent of the stock mnd the foregier shall not control to exceed
49 per cent.
Mr. RAxKm. We are doing the same thing here in America?
Mr. SALMON. But the conditions are different.
Mr. Itcxx. We are doing the same thing.
Mr. WusT. Certainly, we are doing that; but that is not the question.
Mr. SALMON. Conditions are different in Turkey. Turkey must have foreign
capital, foreign brains, foreign engineers, in order to develop her resources. No
Turk ever contributed one Iota to the progress of Il country. The progress of
Tprkey, such as she has had, has been by foreigners. A Turk may imitate, may
adopt; but If he wants a real piece of construction work, lie has to go to Europe
or America to get the brains mid the capital.
Mr. Wmma. I would like to ask this question, Mr. Salmon, if in your opinion,
your Judgment, has the fact that these very extensive concesslons In Turkey
are owned by the Italianis and French nationals and vaipitalists anything to do
with the withdra~aii of French support from tie (ireeks and the mandate they
were given in Smiyrnan?
Ur. SALMON. It has been alisolitely the fuindamentil ground of the French
policy.
Mr. ItAxici. Tiat is not very clear to ie: Just whuat do you neal lby tflt?
Mir. ALMON. I nlin timit tie French policy In Asitli Minor-
Mr. RAKE:Ra (Interpoing). l Io you niiuiml'ersnl the question as It Is down it the
record 't
Mr. SALMON. I do.
Mr. Fimia. I would like to get an miswer. Mr. ('lhirimmamin.
Mr. SALMON. I say that wn. a remi.1m1-
Mr. Fmn&. You did not compimlete your answer.
Mr. SALMON. I beg your pardon.
The French policy lit Asia Mimor lints lilw'mI ast-' very hairgely unpon the fact
that the French tire large owners of the hiolids of the Ottoman Emmipire. and
under the second treaty nmlale Iy Fiamnkli liomllhoii. Franve was given certain
concessions and rights, aid given it free himmnilin Syria. That treaty im11K been
published.
Mr. FRn. What was tiat treaty?
Mir. SALMoN. The treaty lmamde between .ranklii Itouliil iad tihe Aigorla
Government.
Mr. Fox. When was that treaty?
Mr. SALMON. I think that that treaty was made-I can not give you the exitet
date; the negotiations covered quite a little time.
Mr. RAK&nR. In other words, we are w-nding nomey over for the relief of tihe
sufferers In Rumia and Syria. and supplies to the Allies. and that gold; those
supplies are finding their way Into the hands of the Imople that mre bringing
about these conditions.
Mr. SALMON. I think that that io a fairly accurate statement of the situation,
Ir.
lr. WViiITx. I want to intake it plinm to lie eomminittee and to Mr. Salniomi that
this committee has no such policy and is not doimg that.
Time CHAIIIMAN. No. I)o you have anything further to ask the witness?
Mr. Bortoll wants son more time.
ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF MR. THEO BO TOLI.
Mr. Box. Mr. Chalrnan, I want to ask one iue.stion. I do not want to take
the witness away from Mr. White. lie is Mr. Whit's witness in a sense.
The (CHAIRIMAx. Ask him anything that you want to.
Mr. Box. I want to ask hini a question In eommneetlon with a question that lie
was asked in the Ieginning and in Justice to time witness as well no to myself.
Whit I want to ask you is whether or not yeo are conteted 1In auY way
with the Greek Legation.
Mr. ORnTOrI. I want to say that I ain not connected in miny way with the
ek Legaition. I went to the Greek ignition twice after coming, the same as
(rei
ADM31IOI OF NEAIt R&S1T BUFUGU.
to legations of other countries, and saw Mr.Ruras, and I went to the Greek
Legation to ask for Information about the present conditions. Now, maybe
the question has reference to and you want an answer to the question as to
whether I an supported by the Greek Legation. I will reply that I ant not.
Mr. Box. What I want to know is whether you have any connection what-
ever with the Greek Legatlon.
Mr. BoWroL. As I started to say, I have lived In Nice, and I had a very
dear friend that lived there, a Mr. Batlow, an American composer. I have
known hint for years, and lie Is ready to support mie In every way. I am not
making any Greek propaganda or Armenian propaganda. I am working as a
Christian, and I am working because I saw what happened and because I think
that It Is my duty to do it. There is no connection between me and the Greek
Legation.
Mr. Box. You made the statement to Individual members of the committee-
when you were talking to us last-week you said that the Greek Legatlon had
thanked you. That was In the press reports, but you say that you have no
connection with the Greek Legation.
Mr. BoRTOr. No, sir. I am sorry for this. The Greek Government, as I
,say, sent thank to me for this address. I replied to the Greek Government
that I was not working especially for the Greeks but for every Christian, for
those Christians who had been driven out of Turkey.
The CHAnRMAN. Just a minute. Let us put Into the record this clipping from
the Washington (D. C.) Star of Friday, December 14:
"Mr. Theodore 78ortoll, recently assigned to the Greek Legation, has arrived
In Washington and Is staying at the Hamilton Hotel."
That statement you deny?
Mr. BORTOLT. Yes, sir; I absolutely deny that.
The CHAIRM. And you say that yon did not make any statement of that
kind?
Mr. BOaTOL!. I did not make a statement of that kind, Mr. Chairman. I
have no connection with the Greek Legation.
Mr. WmT..Mr. Box, have you finished with your questions?
Mr. Box. Yes. I wanted to know whether or not he had any connection with
the Greek Legation.
The CHAItR.AN. I want to ask the irevIous witness whether he has been paid
for doing certain services.
Mr. SALMON. I think you must have misunderstood ine, 'Mr. Chairman. I do
not want to be misunderstood. I said that they paid my expenses for one
month at Willliamstown.
The CHARMAN,. Did the Greek Legation give you any credentiills of any
kind?
Mr. SALMON. They did not, except a letter to the seeretal' of the institute
at Williamstown.
Mr. RAuu-n. Wiitt was that meeting for?
Mr. PALMON. It Is a general conference for the purpose of discussing varlouts
political affairs. I went there because they had ito one In the legation avail-
able at the the that was familiar with the affairs in the Near Past. I was
asked by the Greek Legation because I had lived there and I had made a study
of the situation.
Mr. RAXER. You were there lit what capacity-as n citizen of tie Ulted
States?
Mr. SAMON. Yes. sir; as n citizen of the Unittl Wtates. Of course, yon
understand this whole proce ding at Wllilamstown wits entirely an Informal
matter.
The CH.IMMAN. All right, you were there, and yott were paid by the Greek
Legation for performing the services for them.
Mr. SALMON. I do not want the committee to misu nderstand ine. I was not
paid,
The CHAIRMAN. Were you Instructed In any way by tlhem is to what to do?
Mr. SALMON. I was not.
The CHIAIRUAN. I believe that is all.
Mr. WmTr. I do not care to ask any iore questions.
Mr. Box. I took the witness, Mr. Bortoll. away front Mr. White. Just ns lie
started his statement. I merely wanted to call the attention of Mr. White to
the fact that lieIs entitled to the witness.
25909---23-sEn 1-c- 4
48 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEBS.
Mr. Wrmt= Just now?

Mr. Box. Yes.
Mr. Warm. Well, I had nothing special.
Mr. BoToU. May I add, In answer to the question, that my only connection
with the Greek Embassy is embraced In the statement which I have handed to
Mr. Johnson, and the same thing which I am handing to Mr. White.
Mr. Box. Where are you stopping?
Mr. BoaTo. At the Hotel Hamilton.
Mr. Box. So that part of the press dispatch l correct?
Mr. Bomrou. Yes, sir; but I do not know how the Hotel Hamilton gpt the
Impression that I was connected with the Greek Legation In any way. It is
true that a member of the Greek Legation thanked me on the part of the
Greek Government for the endeavors I was making for the refugees.
Mr. Box. That a representative on the part of the Greek Government came
to thank you for the efforts that you are making here?
Mr. BoiTuO. Absolutely; but I have no connection whatever with the Greek
Embassy. I am not making any Greek propaganda, or any Armenian props.
ganda, or any other propaganda. I am simply endevoring to have this great
country understand the position of those refugees and see if they can be helped.
Mr. RAxu. Who Is with you-associated with you as Americans-in this*
effort to put this thing before the committee?
Mr. BoxToLi. I am associated with no organization. whatever, but I came in
connection with the conference on immigration policy, which Is working on
exactly the same thing, and they asked me to address a dinner.
Mr. RmE. What was the conference on?
Mr. BoaToLl. The conference was on immigration.
Mr. Wnrr. So. Mr. Bortoli, you did not come in contact with anyone else?
Mr. BoaTou. Yes; and I also have some other correspondence.
Mr. RAxn. You were met by the authorities of the organization, by a com-
mittee?
Mr. Boiou. I was met by Miss Mary Hurlbutt, of New York, and nhe asked
me to attend, to state what had been done and what the conditions were.
Mr. RAxzI. And, you explained this matter to the newspaper men.
Mr. BORToU. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAKEL And did you give them it written statement?
Mr. Bowmou. No, sir I only made a statement to them, which has been carried
In the newspapers. I can give you, I think, a clipping.
The CHAMMAN . Well, the newspapers took that up and broadcasted it?
Mr. BoaTno. Absolutely; but I gave them no statement, or made no state-
ment in writing.
Mr. RAx. Who engineered that meeting for this dinner?
Mr. BoaTOL!. The Y. W. C. A. that very same day of my arrival.
The CHAMMAN. I would like to say this for the information of those present:
That Miss Hurlbutt and others of that organization have twice arranged to
be present ahead of this witness, and twice have asked to have the meeting.
postponed, and it is expected that they will be here Tuesday.
Mr. RAKnn. Who paid for you?
Mr. BorOu. The Y. W. C. A. asked me. I came at my own expense.
First of all I want to make it clear to the gentlemen of this committee that,
although my factory in Smyrna was burned. I do not think that I will starve.
I have three life-insurance policies. of my mother's and sisters', amounting
to 2,500,000 francs, which will be paid; and if I stay in this country-in
America, which I will-I have some property which I will bring to this
country, so I am not in a position where I will have to ask for help from
anybody, because even what I do get I will give half of to the refugees. I
want to make this statement, and I want to say that I am not connected in
any way with any of the embassies. I have received a letter from the Argen.
tine embassy.
Mr. WHIMr. We are very glad to have that statement made, Mr. Bortoll.
Mr. RAXE. Who was Instrumental and behind the petition that is being
sent to Congress by the many ministers?
Mr. Bowro=. By the many minsters-I do not know. I want to tell you
this, that as soon as I left the immigration station in Boston I went just as
soon as I could-I went and took out my first papers, first citizenship papers.
After I went to see Mrs. Nathaniel Thayer, who is the chief of the immigra-
tion bureau at the Statehouse in Boston, and have fought the matter over with
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST DEUGEUS 49
her, and having explained the matter of the refugees in Smyrna, in Boston to
see if she could do anything for them.
The CHAIRMAN . How many of these refugees dre now at our ports waiting
to get in?
Mr. BOaTOL. I could not make any exact statement there. I went to see
Mr. White, the Undersecretary, and who told we there were 200 of these
refugees waiting a month ago, but out of that number there are only 45
remaining.
Mr. RAzxu. Who suggested citizenship to you?
Mr. lowgoLi. No, sir; I said Immediately I did not want to have anything to
do with my country any more. I see France, Italy, and Smyrna, and I am very
s rry to saya-
Mr. ItAKER (interposing). But you got in the United States temporarily and
expected to be deported, did you not?
Mr. BORTOL. 1 never expected to be deported; I have not been deported.
Mr. Tan.
s Who helped you get in?
Mr. BoaTOLI. My friend Mr. Barlow; and the matter hs been recommended,
and, I think, as I wa4 known for years, there has been an exception wade
for me.
Mr. THnE. Did the Greek legation hell) you?
Mr. IBo0TOLI. No, sir; the Greek legation did not help nmi,; 'i never knew Mr.
Vouros was stationed here.
Mr. Tsuz I know; but Mr. Barlow-who is he?
Mr. BORTOLL. He Is an American composer.
Mr. Tam How did you know him?
Mr. BoRToia. I happened to know him in France during the various times
when I was there with my mother, sisters, and niece.
Mr. ItAKER. The tact is you are the man who has traveled around a good
dealt
Mr. lloaToL. My business obliged me to travel.
Mr. t1IAKE.You have been In Paris and did business there, as welt as in
London?
Mr. BOaHoRT.I was there on business with France, England, Argentina, and
with America. But I was not doing any business In France.
The CHAIR AN. We will now take a recess until 2 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 12.25 o'clock V. w., the committee took a recess until 12
o'clock this afternoon.)
AFTER RECESS.
The committee reconvened at the expiration of the recess.

Tihe CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order. Mr. Bortoll Is ready to
resume his statement. Mr. White will ask him questions, if he wishes.
Mr. WHrrE. I do not care to develop anything further, Mr. Chairman. My
purpose in bringing Mr. Bortoll before this committee is to simply establish
the extent of this emergency in Its practical character, and I think, Mr. Chair-
man, we have the permission of the committee to insert that part of his
written statement; and I do not press Mr. Bortoli to continue at all unless
the other members of the committee want it.
Mr. RtAKE. Has lie stated all the general substance of what he desires to
state to the committee?
The CHAIDMAN. Is this statement you have Just handed me your statement?
STATEMENT OF MR. THEODORE BORTOLI-Resumed.
Mr. JOinrot.,. Yes. sir; that is for you personally, Mr. Johnson, Just to make
the situation clearer.
Mr. WHITE. I want to ask Mr. Bortoli this question: Mr. Bortoll submitted
to me a statement which he had tiled with the office of the Secretary of State,
did you not?
Mr. llouToJi. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHITE. That is, narratinp the circumstances of this horrible massacre.
Mr. BoaRToL. Yes, sir.
Mr. WIum Is It your purpose to insert a statement covering that ground in
the record?
Mr. BOTOLI. I gave that as information, but I have not the permission of
the State Department to make It public. But, of course, the Congress wishes
to know what happened there.
ADMISSION, OF NAR EAST REPU(*V,§.
Mr. Wurr. I would inquire of the chairman, possibly there would be some
Impropriety, would there? Of course, the members of the committee and the
Congress have access to this statement?
The CHAUIMAN. We had present here the other day the chief of the Near
East Division of the State Department, Mr. Dules.
Mr. Wicm. Not on this particular bill.
The Cn.AIMAN. Well, on the bill ahead of It, In which he discussed the
emergency and wlthhehl certain statements, but spoke of Information and
cablegrams received pertaining to It.
Mr. RAKes. From your Information now obtained at the conference in
Switzerland. it looks is though they are going to provide for the various
nationalities to return to Turkey and certain territories in Turkey, both In
Asia-and in Europe, does It not?
Mr. Boror. I understand that. In my opnlton. It would be a crime against
evilixation to send those people back to slaughter.
Mr. BAKR. Mo you say the territory should be turned over to then and
that they should be permitted to go to the various locallt'es and "Pnduct
themselves as of course, under the general law any other persons would be
required to conduct themselves; does not that look as though it would relieve
the situation very rapidly?
Mr. Boamou. Allow me to tell you that If the Turk was to be permitted to
govern those territories without a power, such as America or England, to
Impose the conditions and be ready to back the demand, that the Turk will
begin to massacre and do what he did. First of all. those Christians who
have had experience in Smyrna will not be ready to go back If the Tork Is to
be the ruler.
Mr. RAKER. Why not?
Mr. BonTOLt. Would you believe. sir, that I will be ready to go back to
Snyrna?
The CHAIMUAN . You were not a native of Smyrna, to begin with.
Mr. RAKER. Well, yes; they can not keep you from going there. When the
time cones and the conditions are right, what you say about not being ready
to go back will mean nothing; you will go to Smyrna Just as soon is things are
adjusted. You may not go back to live permanently, but you will go back.
Mr. BOuTOTA. I will go back to get the bodies of my' mother and sisters, but
never to remain.
The CHAIRMAN. I would say the Armenian people. if I am able to sense this
at all, are In a way helpless over there; and they are a mixed people and they
feel that the efforts to maintain homes are unavailing. So they are becoming
!n the position of the Jews of the world, and their hope is the United Statle.s.
Mr. BOITOLI. The hope of all those refugees is it the United States.
The CHAInMAN. You have said the whole thing. "The hope of all those
refugees is In the UnItel States."
Mr. loRToLI. The only hope. That does not mean that Amaer!ca should take
them ail In. But America, which has shown herself as the only Nation who
will protect them.
Mr. IIAK R. Tell us how you are going to do this, with the awful condition
we have here now, with so many alien people In our country. It is not that
we are against them coming lit reasomnble inunliters, under vertt'n proper 'i'mul-
tions, etc. But wihy is It that so niany of then here art reamly and willing to i'o-
late our laws and are ready mall willing to destroy fte Government thati imiakes it
possible? One of the things to-day that In concerning the American people
and the Asuer'eau Government Is ti fact that it has got to protect an1i Iprepare
to save itself as against the ah'ens that are here now.
Mir. llowTom. I think that America whit t was 3m aliy of hit' lnrpemlu
powers-
TJie CHAIR.N (Interposing). No; it was not; we were not an ally. We
went In to help the Allies.
Sir. IloiTomi. But you have helpetl us froni lhe destru(.tlon.
The CIAIRMAN. All that has been done, and you are right here in the middle
of a pmblem which is Just about to break. which was to be the demand of
large numbers of enpmloyers of the great labor units for the admission of more
laborers. itid they have been conipslInhng this last year that our quota bill
admitted the dlepenlents and kept out the brawn, and now they aro short of
labor. They were about to make that appeal, and the people desiring the
mitluivls'on of the refugees got in ahead of them. If you opened with a plan
ADMISSION OF XEAR EAST REFUGE 4 S° 51
to let In some tnore refugees, you will open up and let In some more laborers
almost Invariably.
Mr. BONTOL. Those refugees have only been saved by the Americans; they
have been taken front the fire; they have been brought to the ,Greek territory,
to Pirseus and all the Islands and they are there now starving and dying.
There are no house; they are without covers, and a telegram I may read to
you Is to tihe effect that the children are dying at the rate of 180 a day. They
mire without food or other help than that given by the Near East Relief.
What I was asking is that those persons residing here in America, and
among those Greeks. maybe, are 75,090 which have served it the American
Army anl, I might say. the good cause.
The CHAIRuvAx. They served as Americans, with Americans, in the cause of
the world.
Mr. BORTOLL And now among those refugees there are sisters, mothers dying,
who tire absolutely helpless and hopeless In that Greek territory, and they will
d!e. The population of those Islands will perish with the refugees, because all
those towns are overcrowded; they are parked on the streets. I saw the barracks
myself lin one barracks at Pirieus, which was built to contain 200 people, there
are over a thousand, and may even give the name of an American professor
at the American college at Beirut who has taken photographs of those camps.
I was not able to stay a minute on those barracks, and yet those people had to
live there.
Why can not a man. so long as he is able to support his family, take them
under bond? The Government could take all the guaranties It needs to see
that those people will not become public charges. The number is not so large.
But, for Instance. suppose I was a resident of the United States and served In
the American Arm.. do you not think that In such a horrible catastrophe as the
one of Smyrna I could come to you and tell you my sister Is dying and I can
send the money. ant she can not even come? She can not go to a hotel; she
Is on the streets. Winter is there, and they have no covers. What shall she
dot? Could you have the heart to forbid her coming?
Mr. lAxNY. People are coming to this country who could go to France,
where there is a splendid climate, plenty to eat and wear. They can get a vessel
and go right there and fiud shelter and provisions within 100 miles.
31r. BOTOLl. We are not obliged to follow her example. I do not think
there are any of those refugees who want to go to France or who want to go to
Italy, because they have seen those nations acting when they were In distress,
when they were flying from the fire and got to the wharf, and those nations
which were able to save them had to wait for the example of the great
America. which went there and saved 376,000 from the water front of Smyrna
under American protection for 12 days.
Mr. WUIM. lit other words, those refugees do not look upon the Italian Gov-
ernment. nor the Italian people, nor the French government , nor the French
people is their symmpathetic friends at all?
Mr. BonTOl.1. Absolutely )lot.
Mr. WITMr. 'haint stakes that clear.
Mr. iBoTon. Because time two (Niveitments which have enabled the Turks
to Ie victorious are the two allies of tht Greeks-France and Italy. They gave
tie arns and anmuilions to the Turks. France, ln I20. when the Greek Gov-
ernmient ant the Turkish ilovenainvit we-e asked by Lord Curzon to conclude
a pewce treaty on certain conditions thut were Imposed front the Allies upon the
(reeks and Turks-France has imostlivmied qlwaylt from period to period that
peime conference. Because sie wmmted to see the Turkish Armies stringer and
stronger: ind there we are.
I animonly slowing that there nre over a million refugees absolutely helpless
and iolnless.
The greatest number olf those refugees-- ll of them, practically-have been
sIvd hy lie Americans. There are among tihein hose who fire nteapbhers of the
ftMvlilihs elf Anrican citizens who are begghug to Join their brothers, sisters,
lliutlimr. land fathers. ail they are not Ible to oib
it.
V'iII n1ot the excepiicin be mllde for them?
The 'IHAIRMAN. Yes. It can. But it llimmliamtely runs counter to the favored-
nationm vhmtlles of time other nations. and they have either got to do one thing or
the other. The United States is viewed by all countries of the world, atil If
It begins to pick out refugees especially to be brought to relatives here from
one country they will have to do It for other countries. If you propose It
for one hill, you might just as well take the bull by the horns and propose
it for all of them.
Mr. WiH1TK Here Is a nation, the Turkish Government. They nre not asking
that we receive any refugees?
The A.IRMaw. No.
Mr. WHrt'. The fativored-natlon clause Is not luvolvtei for the simple reason
that no ftovernntient to-day existing In the world is going toi come out lu broad
daylight and assert in tents that we are oppressing certain of our subjects.
and we denmnd that those lIeople who are being compelled through want an
cruelties and our Iolley ,f government to get out of our country shall be
received It the United s$tales. What government, Mr. Joinsonl, would place
themselves In that posltionl;
There is no liffertiation alielitn this bill we are dis.Insslug. Thoe refit-
geft might as well Ie. from Engiid or frot termiany; they might have been
Gerlian natitinas or the nationals of any country. Now. Mr. Chairman, I
beg Iiardon for calling attention to that. I think we are lmloving along safe
lines.
The CHAMMAN. It would be ony a few weeks until we would have the
same thing from Constantinople and other refugees.
Mr. Wurr. I do not want to Interrupt the consecutive statement of the
witness to go Into that. It will all be threshed out In executive session.
Mr. RAKE. Did not those foreign nations, particularly Italy and the Italian
people, even though they were here as citizens, become very much incensed
over the attitude of our Government with reference to Flume?
Mr. BOROLI. Yes; they lid.
Mr. RAKER. I want to show by the witness that every time our country does
anything that it thinks Is right for America, these nationals of the country that
we deal with that feel so hurt, Immediately turn against the United States,
although Anricans by birth and naturalization.
Mr. Wur. What does the gentleman refer to?
Mr. RAKEM. I will tell you about It.
Mr. WHITE. I am asking you.
Mr. RAKSR. I say this, and I say it advisedly, that whenever America gets
in conflict with any nation that is opposed to It, the nationals of that country
iln the United States. It at greater or lesser degree, require watching, and i
great majority of them are going to be against America and for their native
country.
Mr. Wims. To what instance does the gentleman refer to?
Mr. RAKR.&.I will name England, to start with, in the war of 1812.
Mr. WHITE. Oh. well; the gentleman has not much international magna-
nimity.
Mr. RAKm. The Idea is we get an appeal from one nationality because of
this war because they are aU right and the others are all wrong.
Mr. WniT& Are you for absolute exclusion?
Mr. RAKER. For the present, yes.
Mr. Wurrn We have not got It.
Mr. RAWeM. We ought to have It until we get Just such things as this ad-
Justed. As the witness said, we are nearing and confronting one of the greatest
disasters that ever overtook this country, If we are not ready and willing to do
a little sacrificing nnd tend to our own household instead of looking abroad to
get some great humitarian problem and obtain some newspaper notoriety and
become humitarlans and forget our own home people.
I want to ask this witness: The climate is very mild dowi In the Mediter-
ranean countries. They say the people have not homes and houses to live In.
Have you thought. sir, that right within the shadow of this capital yon have
permitted and I have permitted American citizens to live In his a tent when the
thermometer waft 20 below zero; and has anybody raised voice against
those poor American citizens living in that manner? Not one.
Mr. WHIT&. I did not know of It.
Mr. RAFRn. Mr. Bortoli. where did you first see this hill that is being con-
sidered here"
when the bill
Mr. 1irTOLL. I Sav" it at the Senate nnd I saw it in *ew York
wits being prepared.
Mr. IR.nArC.Who Introduced this bill In the Senate?
Mr. Bfonxom. Senator Keyes.
ADMISSION OF NIAR EAST DUPUGZES. 58
Mr. RAKU. And you say that you collaborated by being present and dis-
cussed with parties who originally prepared this bill, before It was Introduced
in either House or Senate?
Mr. Boromu. No, sir; this bill was drafted in New York, and they were
asking me some information and I was giving it to them.
Mr. Wrmn Mr. Bortoll, I want to ask you this question: Is It not true that
the Turkish Government Is a government of Islamism?
Mr. Bowrou. Absolutely.
Mr. WmTr. Is there, to your knowledge, any strong spirit of intolerance of
religious or racial intolerance being exercised by the governments In the
Balkan States--that is, outside of those countries which have achieved their
independence from the Ottoman or Turkish Empire? I am speaking of the
Balkan Independent States. Do you get iny question? Is there any strong
spirit of religious intolerance?
Mr. BoTero. Absolutely no. Of course, this is the religion of the Turks,
to kill as many Christians as you can and the more you kill the quicker you
go to heaven; for example, a Turk can not kill a dog. Mr. Morgenthau and Mr.
Wharton also will say that.
I remember in 1914, before the Turks started to civilize, they were killing,
but not In the wholesale way. You could see in Constantinople over 5,000,000
dogs belonging to nobody. These dogs could not be killed by Turks, but when
the Germans went to reorganize the Turkish Army they took all of those dogs,
put them in ships, and sent them to certain Islands; and you see now every
morning two shilw Iided with bones and other kinds of food going to those
islands to feed tlit( dlogs. That shows you, sir, that the Turk in a certain way
has a religion. If a Christian touch a dog they would strike him immediately.
I reineinher when I was a lkiv going to college I learned the Christians can
not kill dogs, but the Christians are to he killed by the dogs. This is their
religion: Kill as ninny Christians as you can.
The CHAMMAN. If the witness will remember, the doctor here from Con-
necticut last year presented a pampliet lie ind written several years ago, it
which he undertook to explin" the religion of Mohammed; and we had all
these things in connection with the appeal for the admission of Syrians and
Assyrians to relatives, a large part of those at that time being in the State of
Connecticut.
Mr. WHIT. I am trying to establish that which has always been my belief
and which Mr. Simon confirms as to this situation, that the Turkish Gov-
ermnent is a government of Islamisn..
The CHAIRMAN. We almit flit ; and the Koran. their bible, calls for killing
their enemies.
Mr. RAKER. What difference would that make, Mr. White, if theirs is a gov-
ernment of isalism?
The CHAIsMA.. As a matter of fact. this country called Thrace belongs to
Greece.
Sir. BoTror. Thrace has belonged to Greece for 2,000 years.
Mr. JotHlcsoN. And that makes a lot of trouble?
Mr. BoSoLt. Absolutely. But I suppose if Thrace was handed back to the
Greeks in the I.usanm,. conference the refugee problem would be somehow
lighter, but the Turks must be chased out of there; for instance, the Turks
have just chased all the Greeks front Smyrna. and have determined to chase
all Christians out of Constantinople. The Turks would have those territories.
which are very rich. in their hands. All the commerce in Asia and In European
Turkey was held by English. Americans, French. and Italians and Greeks. So
all the freight was In the hands of the English. French. Italians. and Ameri-
cans. The Standard Oil Co. has concessions there. and now those concessions
have to be considered. What Is to become of that land? Are you going to
leave oil that precious raw material that that land contains Just to go-
Mr. Wnm-z (nterposing). It may not be especially necessary to bring It out.
hut since nil this other matter has been Intrdluced I want to ask the witness
if the Turkish concessions to foreigners now granted, and which have been
granted, the French and Italians predominate in the conces.sions they have
secured from the Turkish Government?
Sir. Bounou. Absolutely. sir.
Mr. WitT. Do they predominate to a very great extent?
Mr. BOsTOur. They actually do. And this Is the purpose of the evacuation
of Smyrna: The Italians were paying money to their own residents to go back
54 ADMISSION OF XEAR EAST RFVUGOS.
to Smyrna and reconstruct-I do not know what expression to use-I saw my

mother killed aed I saw my two sisters dead, and the Italian Government wants
to pay the Italians to go back to Smyrna to reconstruct, not to lose predomina-
tion. I can bring you newspapers which are stating that the Angora ambas-
sador made the promises to the Rome Government that Turkey would not forget
the French and Italian help.
Mr. WHiTE. They have asked you. would It be fair to conclude that the
Italians and French investors are inspired by the conviction that they can get
better terms from the Turkish Government than they could have secured it the
Greek control had been continued in Smyrna?
Mr. Bonrou. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHrrs. That would be a fair conclusion?
Mr. BosToU. Yes, sir.
Mr. Box. What do the American concessions consist tem?
Mr. BoxroLi. Oils.
Mr. Box. Anything else?
Mr. BoiroLi. Well. they hare most of the shipping.
Mr. Box. Shipping and oil?
Mr. BoRToU. Yes, sir; the Standard Oil Co. is established there. Their
properties have not been burned, for the simple reason that they were in front
of the position-
Mr. Box (interposing). You say they did not burn the Standard Oil prop
ertie.?
Mr. BorTOL. They were not touched.
Mr. Box. They killed men and imomen and turned the A.rlerin consulate
and other property, but did not touch the Standard Oil property.
Mr. Bouou. Yes.
Mr. CABLE. Was there anyone protecting the Standard Oil property there?
Mr. BoRTOLL. Yes; the Standard Oil is practically on the water front, in
the lower part of town, and a destroyer was in front of the Stnndard Oil's
building.
Mr. CABLE. The United States destroyer?
Mr. Bosrouj. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. I want to read this [reading]:
"It remains to treat as briefly as possible of the considerable Turkish
element in Thrace. It should be noted, in the first place, that in statistics
all Moslems regardless of race. are grouped together as ' Turks.' Indeed, the
Turkish element in Thrace is thickest in the highlands of western Thrace,
occupied almost exclusively by Poeank and Achriane mountaineers who hide
under conformity to Islam the mystery of their origin." Mosle preponder-
unce here, however, is irrelevant to an appreciation of Greek t'iiains. for
this territory P, left to Bulgaria. For the parts of Thra e actually claimed
by Greece. Turkish and Greek statistics are agreed in showing a Greek major-
ity (304,537 Greeks and 265,350 Turks in the one case, and 393,515 Greeks and
344.911 Turks in the other).
"The majority may not appear overwhelming, but three points should
he borne in mind. In the first place. the Turkish element in the country is
artificially swollen by an enormous floating population of soldiers and officials
recruited from the Anatolian homelands of the race. An illustration will
make clear tile force of tls point. Turkish statistics show that no less than
43,000 inhabitants of Constantinople are persons in Government service. If
we multiply this figure by five in order to include their familit we have
accounted for fully half of the Turkish population of the calsital. 8onlething
analogous, though in a less degree, obtains throughout Thrace. If we could
take Into consideration only the permanent and settled population. Greek
preponderance in Thrace would be much more striking. It is suggestive In
this connection that M. Berl, a publicist sent on special mission to the country
by the French Government a few years before the war. calculates that the
Greek element, though only about 35 per cent of the total population of Thrace.
has in its hands 50 per cent of the agriculture, 80 per cent of the industry.
and 70 per cent of the trade of the country, besides almost monopolizing the
lihtral professions.
"In the second lace., a glance at the ethnological maps will show that the
relative strength of the Greek and Turkish elements in Thrace has undergone
a considerable change, to the disadvantage of the Greek element, since 1877.
This Is due to the policy Inaugurated by Abdul Hamid of attracting Moslem

Innigrants (Mohadjirs) frots the former Provinces of the Empire, notably
Bosnia, Crete, and Bulgaria, and settling them In predominantly Christian
regions with a view to modifying their ethnological complexion. One estimate
puts the number of Mohadjirs thus settled in Thrace since the Russo-Turkish
War as high as 188,000. Since 1914, this process has been carried one step
further by the Young Turkish Government, which has seized the opportunity
afforded by the war to deport 120,000 Thracian Greeks from their homes and
settle Moslems in their place, not to mention several tens of thousands itwe
driven out and compelled to take refuge in Greece during the spring of the
same year. About half of these 12-0,000 have perished of hunger and priva-
tion. The repatriation of those still alive is an act of elementary justice
besides being, as the report of the Inter-Allied Commission already referred to
points out, 6by far the sonudest meamis of restoring prosperity in the country.'
It Is doubtful if after such a repatriation the Turks would have a majority in
Thirace, as the Turkish element has also been thinned by the war and epi-
denes, but. In any case, the majority that counts is surely the pre-war majority,
not the majority obtained through deportation and the I white massacre.' One
can not admit the assassin's claim to step into the shoes of h's victim.
"Finally, we must ask ourselves which Is the elcment which plays the music
of the Zukfunt. In all cases where the future of territories of mixed popula-
tion is under consideration, a long-sighted view is only possible If we also take
into account the tendencies and possibilities presented by the various elements.
One can not ignore such a fact as the strikingly higher rate of Increase of the
Greek element. The example of Cyprus Is there to show that under an"adminis-
tration which does not attempt to control racial growth through massacre, the
Ureeks increase three times as rapidly as the Turks. Nor can one deny that
the Greek element alone po&es the vitality necessary for reconstruction on the
ruins of to-(lay. A distinguished Italian publicist has well expressed certain
facts noted by every careful observer of the Near East. ' The Greek people
Ltlieve that their mission in the east Is not yet at an end. Their consciousness
of their own superiority, their intellectual gifts, their pride. their aptitude for
commerce and peaceful progrem generally, their family organization, which
aRsigns to women a post of action and direction worthy of them (even the
Turks respect Greek women and reserve for them the title of "kokona," or
"matron "). their taste for learning, their undying optimnisn. their inability
ever to feel disMouragement. iheir characteristic versatility. * * * antl their
profound knowledge of life constitute a ju-4titlcatlon of this idea.' (Amadori
Virglij, La question rumeltota, pp. 51-52.) 1In the Immobile Orient the Greek
nation alone personifies the western spirit of activity anit progress. * * *
The Moslems who in this nineteenth century repect and fear Greek nationality
wh'le fighting against It, show thereby their respect and at the same tine their
dread of the Invading civilization of the West.' (lb., p. 52.)
Anil. lastly, may we say a word to those persons who. wille anxions to 414)
Justice, are reduced to despair by the tangled ethnography of the Balkan region
and are Inclined to find refuge in mandates and international controls? These
expedients of the League of Nations are excellent in their appropriate place and
eason; but if applied too Indiscriminately, they may become engines of Injus-
tice belying that doctrine of self-determination and majority rule which supplies
the vet- raison d'Otre of the league. Thrace affords a test of the validity of
that doctrine, just as much us Transylvania or Bohemia. Minoritle, whether
large or small, should have every right assured to them short of the right to
deny self-determination to a majority.
"To put Thrace, the ' largest ethnological domain of the Greek race north of
Pindus,' as Reclus called it, under the mandate of a great power would only
mean turning it into a second Crete.
"The Greek element, already a relative majority numerically and enjoying
the higher birth rate, absolutely preponderant in economic life, an4 monopolizlng!
such culture as the country possesse, could not fall to assert its preponderance
more and more strongly under any civilized government and to press with ever-
increasing force its plea for the union of Thrace to the mother country. The
mandatory solution Is, above all, a compromise, and the precedents of eastern
Rumella and Crete are there to show that the Balkans do not take k'nlly to
such compromises."
The CHAIRit.x. The committee will now hear Mr. Capps.
STATEMENT 01 PIL01. RDWAD C"APMI PRINBCTON UNIVERSITY,

INCETON, N. J.
The CHAIRMAN. Professor, what is your business and place of residence?
Professor CAPPs. I am professor in Princeton University, Princeton, N. J.
The CH.AUMAN. The committee has been holding some preliminary hearings
for the purpose of considering H. R. 13209, a bill Introduced by Mr. White of Kan-
sas, who is a ipember of this committee, which bill proposes to admit refugees
from the Turkish territories, and we have had statements covering some of the
history and locations, and then there were some further statements of distress,
which are on file here, and some statements in reference to the possible numbers
of refugees who might be admitted from the total number of refugees. Any.
thing you can say we will be glad to hear.
Professor CAPPs. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I have not
had an opportunity to study this bill In any great detail, but I think I know the
general purpose of it and the limitations that are embodied In it.
My Impression is that it will not go very far as a measure of relief; that it
willi be a very great relief as to a limited number of families who are In very
great distress because of their relatives In Thrace and in the Near East. How.
ever, It would surprise me if, In conformity with these regulations, more than
10,000 to 15,000 should come in; and I should think, too, that the quality of the
Immigrants that you would get through these restrictions would be the best;
that Is, men and women of substance, whose relatives on this side have an
acknowledged position and are reputable citizens.
So that I think that you have very carefully guarded the quality and the
numbers of those who may come in.
Personally, I regret very much to see any restriction plac(ed by this country
against the victims of the very great disaster that is going on In Asia. because
we are the only country in the world (are we not?) that closes its doors
to a person who is suddenly driven out of his house and home. All the
near-by States must take these refugees, whether they wanit them or not,
these people who land upon their shores; and, of course, if the disaster were
near at hand asnd our own destroyers should land these refugees on our
shores, say in New Jersey, by the hundreds of thousands, we would take
them all and care for them until they could be repatriated.
The majority of these people will endeavor to' be repatrhted. The great
majority of them are small landowners. You may be interested to know that
every Greek farmer, who has reached the age of 40, with very few exceptions
owns his own homestead, a little plot of land, and is very thrifty and a very
able farmer.
I had some good testimony on that subject from Professor Cyril 0. Hopkins.
of the University of Illinois, whoam you may know as a great Amerlcan soil
expert, who went with me to Greece in 1918 for the Red Cross. He wanted
to see if he could tell the Greeks how to produce more food with the same
labor and from the same land in order to make themselves self-sustaining.
They were short about 40 per cent of their needs, so far as cereals were
concerned; and lie said he could not improve upon the methods of the Greek
f'irmer, under the conditions under which they worked. He could, however,
very much improve the soil of Greece. and he proposed to tell them, and
did tell them, how to do this.
I am speaking of the quality of the Greek peasant, not of the city Greek.
The city Greek is of a type quite distinctive of the Orient or rather of the
Mediterranean Basin. A considerable element of them are men who live on
their wits. But the great mass of this population we are speaking of now
that is emigrating, that is moving out of Asia and Thrace, consists of sturdy,
land-owning, conservative, thrifty farmers; and if they could he put on our
farms they would be a very valuable class.
Mr. RAKER. YOU are speaking, particularly, of the Thrace country?
Professor CAPPS. What I said is peculiarly true of the Greeks of Thrace.
I have had a considerable contact with them. I have lived in Greece about
six years and move_4 around a great deal, and have had to do with the Thraclans
and Macedonians during the period of the war as commissioner of the Ameri-
can Red Cross. The Thraclans, in my opinion. aire the most independent,
sturdy, and self-supporting thrifty people of all the Greeks in lauds until
recently Turkish.
Mr. RAKE1. Well, Professor. I have nt understood that any of the people
from Thrace want to come here.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUG11,8. 57
Professor CAPPs. I do not know that they do; but they would be very wise.
as conditions are now over there, if they started to move his way, in my
opinion.
The CHArsmA. That Is, If too many did not move?
Professor CAPPs. The Thracans are going to suffer by being in between
the Turk and the Bulgarian in the immediate future. Every tendency will
be to depopulate that region of its Greek population.
Mr. RAKm. And drive out the Greeks?
Professor CAPS. And drive out the Greeks; and I suspect, no matter what
the conference decides, that every prudent Greek who can get away front
the country will leave provided there is a place to go.
They are a very desirable body of citizens, so far as I know them.
Mr. RAxe, And provided there Is not quite an inmedlate hope of re-
capturing them and having It under Greek domination.
Professor CAPPS. They will go back in any ease. No. they have not much of
a sense of nationality.
Mr. Rzxn They have not?
Professor CAPPs. Only very slight. They have lived under foreign domi-
nation all their lives. There has been very little political agitation, although
a great deal of religious propaganda. Of course, they have a sentiment In
favor of i plitical organization that Involves the Greek Church. But, apart
from that, I do not think they are much concerned whether they are ruled
by Greeks, Bulgarians. or Turks. That is my own theory, and I have talked
to a great many of them.
Along that very line, if we should admit a large number of refugees who
have relatives here, and the country became somewhat peaceful over there.
there would be a desire on the part of those to return, it would be the able-
bodied that would return rather than the dependent; and It would he those who
have a stake in the land and who have acquired titles to the land.
The CnariMAN. They would be subject to the same charge in the United
States that we are now subjected to. that our quota law Is admitting a
rest excess of dependent peoples, and that the able-bodied from various
countries where conditions are becoming more firm are now returning, leaving
us the dependents, Poland, for instance. The outgo of Poland was in excess of
the income, and the outgo was the able-bodied, the man who was going back to
Poland to live. That is one of the complaints against the workings of the
quota law.
Professor CAPPS. I think there is a great deal of truth In that observation,
Mr. Chairman. But they are usually minors. The refugees will be almost
all dependents-women, children, and young boys-because the grown-up
men are not permitted to leave. To keep the Turks front getting then.
they have gone into the interior already-those who have escaped, rather few
in number.
Mr. RAKFR. So we would get not many able-bodied men?
Professor C*PPe. You would get only boys and not many able-bodied mi.
You would get some old men, women and children, from what I hear, and
I presume you hear the same thing. In Greece that Is true. I get my Infor-
mation from the Red Croqs, that there are nearly a million refugees in
Greece to-day, and they expect to have in the lower part of ireece. around
Athens. one refugee to take care of out of every two Inhatitantts. That is
an Intolerable condition. They can not feed them or shelter them. A good
proportion of them is dependent, and the great mass of then women tnl
children.
Mr. HAK.R. A great many of them came from the cities?
Professor CAPeS. No, I think the mass of them are the country people.
The CnATRMAN. Following out your statement that you hIate to see the
United States the only country with its doors closed: The United States is
farther removed than other countries from this place of trouble; the United
States is one of the principal countries that has Immigration laws. But miny
of those countries have only laws relating to exiles. They treat those who
come upon their soil only as visitors and transients. Does not that anike a
little difference in the situation?
Professor CArPS. I think It does. I think the fact that we assume that
everybody who lands on our soil Is a future citizen makes a considerable
difference. I do not see that this ought to be involved. I am thinking now
of the necessity of finding temporary shelter for these people, the most diffl.
58 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST UFUGEES.
cult I suplose we have seen In our Efetale, fair more difficult than anything
done InFrance and Belgium.
Mr. RAKR. Then we meet up with the condition right away that allthe
children born, no matter how they come here, are citizens..
Professor CAPes. Well, they would be pretty good citizens We certainly
would not turn our back to them, no matter whether good or not, If it happened
to be Cuba that was in trouble or any nearby country; and Bulgaria, Serbia,
Italy, England, and France-not one of.them 'loses its doors to these people,
no matter where they come from or how they are selected.
Mr. IlAx=s. They are having a difficult time, are they not?
Professor CAPPS. They are having their troubles.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you think it would be possible or advisable if this were
decided to consider such a bill as this to amend it to admit all of those who
are admitted as refugees purely as transients and temporarily?
Professor CAPPS. With the possibility of selecting out afterwards those
that were desirable to keep-yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. The further probability that every person who would come
here to a relative would find that relative and all his friends and his church
behind him when the time came to send him out, Insisting he had made good
and should have the opportunity of taking out lisfirst paperg and becoming
a citizen of the United States, except those who worked voluntarily to re-
patrlate themselves. That is what would happen?
Professor CAPPS. Yes, I think it would.
The CHAIRMAN. Because we tire having that saine trouble.
Professor CAPP14. Unless we have an organization bty which we can follow
them up. We would never tommit the Inhumanity of shipping them out of
the country.
The CHAIRAXN. That Is exactly the trouble we are httaving. even down to the
insane children admitted during the war on account of the perils of the sea.
temporarily. When the time comes for them to, lie whippedd Itack, sometines
there Is no family and seatetimes no country to seni them to.
Professor CAvPS. But the alternative Ishorrible to think of-lhtt is. earring
for them over there. It I.almost an endle Job.
The CHAIRMAN. It would lie worse Instead of better?
Professor CAP S. Very nutch worse instead of better.
The CHAIRMAN. And there would be more reqluests for refuges lit addition
to this request?
Professor CArPS. I do not know itsregar'dt, numtbers. I think dcalh will
take care of a good deal of that.
Mr. CAtLE. Th!s bill does not Ihmit tile number?
The CHAIRMAN. No; but It limits the locality.
Mr. RAKE11. One gentleman tohl us that the, territory called the Near East,
with sonic 50.000.000 or O0,000.NK0 people.
110 and that within the next 10 years.
by reason of their Ideas of nationality, there woild he about 25.000,000 or
30,000.000 of refugees in that country.
Professor CAPPS. No; that Is Impossl'le, I think, Mr. Congessamln.
The CHAIMAN. That etbree at very large territory.
Professor CAPPS. They do not want to colme over; lit Klurds aind Arabs, for
example. do not want to come over.
Mr. WHiTi. They con not qualify they are polygatnous. tire they not?
Professor CArPS. I presume they are theoretlctilly and ierha ps practically.
But it Is the Christians who are Involved. The only js'ople who are In danger
tre the Christians. They are the prol erty owners. of course: they are the
merchants and tie owners of farins. In ('onstant'nople about 00 per cent of
the business property. I am told, Is now in the hands of the ChrL'thans.
The CIAIRMAN. Following that tine right there. I will ask the gentlettal-
and you coin answer outside the record or not-alo you thitk that the United
States would he justified In underttaking to define refugee. as follows:
1'Itefugee' shall mean aiy iterson who Ittiw tied from las honim shelie the 1st
of October. 1921. tnd was president prior to ieinihg frot lit; homit. in (a) the
territory belonging to Turkey as defined by the treatty of SL~vres. or (b) other
territory occupied byaTurkish military or tivil nuthorit'.s since October, 1920."
That Is to say. there Is a definition of refugees. iteanitg certain refugees. and
It Is an admission that these people are recognized is refugees because they
tire Chrlstmns being persecuted by 3Mohnumiteflans.
Professor CAPPs. I do not think that quite covers the case. Mr. Chairman,
becase It does not. for example. clearly Include the territory of Smyrinm.
ADMISSION~ OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 59
does It? If Sniyrna did not belong to Turkey, as defined by the treaty of
Sevres and was not occupied by Turkish military authorities since October
30, 1920, it seems to me that Smyrna is not included; and yet the Smyrnn
district Is the district most greviously aflifted. You should so phrase the defi-
nition of refugee as to Include the refugees from Smyrna.
Mr. WHiTS. it certainly provides that It Include Constantinople, If the Turks
take possession of It in the next month, before this bill becomes effective.
Professor CApts. I think It would Include Constantinople, but I am not sure
that It would Smyrna and the refugees from Smyrna. Have you any knowledge
how many there are, Mr. Bortoli? I should say not less than 300,000 were
taken out by the Americans alone.
Mr. BoiRror. Three hundred and seventy-six thousand were taken out by
the Americans alone.
Mr. RAnxi. Altogether there would be a good many?
Professor CA, . There are 1,500o000.
Mr. CAD.IA It the United States would open its door to let some of these
people in. would not that Incite the Turks to go ahead and massacre morp?
Professor CAM. I do not think so. I think within a few years the Turks
will be begging these people to come back and do the business for them; but.
as they feel at present, they would like to murder them off and have them get
out of the country.
Mr. RAirn. Let me put this right squarely up to you: Why should we think
of joermnittlng Just refugees who have relatives here to come to tit's c1mntry
and exclude other refugees who have no relatives here? Why should we make
any possible distinction?
Professor CArPs. To me it I monstrous. I do not think there is anything
humanitarian about It. According to this, you would exclude the best kind
of persons, the most desirable immigrants, and take In perhaps a dependent
or cripple or old men, because they tire relatives. I do not see a proper line
to be drawn there, except that you guarantee the economical Independence of
the person coming In.
The CHAnRMAN. We to not guarantee that for any great length of thiae. What
Is the bond over a lifetime of some boy?
Professor CAPPS. These people will be prosperous In the Unilted States:
you will not have a large dependent group thrown upon American charity.
But you are not getting the best Immigrants.
The CIIAIUMAX. According to their standard of livig and not our sailut-rd
of living?
Professor C.%rrs" The Greeks are westerners. I do not know about the
Armenians. But the Greeks very quickly adapt themselves to tie western lift;
they are very frugal and they do not squander their earnings. The Greek
has almost an Ideal family life--divorce and Ininorality in the faintly air ex-
cedingly rare. The family is a very close-kit organization.
.Mr. llAxNu. What Is te attiMtde of muhid of lIte Greeks in your observation
as to sobriety?
Professor CArrS. It 1isthe rarest thing in the world to see a Irulnken timan.
have seen dmirnken sailors, but drunken citizens are almost unknown even In
the cile.. They are very sober.
Tihe (lIAIAJMAN. Dh, you ulnderslanld tis bill to alidy entirely to the sio-
called G;reeks?
Professor CA No. There might be a majority of m'Ieek-slk-aking and
'Ns.
Arimvithin-speaking penole tlint you will get as it result of this; there will be
-cattering
members of other Christian communities. neither Grtek mmr Armenan
Ih si cleh. I do nol know what race they will belomur to.
31r. I.NVIR. This question ha. been In iy anid it long time, and perlinps yon
(lii answer it: Russia Is a Christian nation, is It?
i'rofessor CAPPS. Yes; I think we wohul have to classify tMe lhtum.dans that
wAIly.
31r. ltAKERt. The expre.s'-in is used so mucih, " Christian " or " no a .-Chrisil lm."
an(] I just wanted it it tie record if Russin I-c put down as R Christian nation.
Professor CArPS. I think I would have to say, yes, sir.
The 0'ilAIRMAN. When you get down to nationality, the law reads, ns It used
to read. that the persons fleeing from relig'ous or political persecution should
be admitted. regardless of the Inmmigration laws.
Professor CArPps. I thik we ought to admit them.
The VIJARA%AM. That Is tie old law. Now, we are down to the problem of
this coimmittce. Every effort to restrht or control immigration legislation from
the time introduced in the first administration of Cleveland down to its intro-
duction during the last administration of Wilson received a veto on the ground
that the efforts to restrict destroyed the right of asylum, which has grown to
be a world-wide right. The asylum in the United States for the oppressed.
All such attempts of law were vetoed until we got this quota law, now in its
second year.
To start with a bill like this would probably wind up with a bill carrying
those words-to continue the United States as open as for the oppressed of
the world, if they are fleeing from religious or political persecution, and then
would come the fight that we have had here so many times, whether that
persecution was shown by overt act or not, and that fight hus always loeen led
by the Jewish people. In my opinion, it is almost Impossible to put out thi.e
bill with this definition of "refugee" without opening up and living added
to it all that other matter.
Professor CAPS,. I think "fleeing" is a hard word to define, sir. You have
guarded against it here, have you not. by the phrase, "Who are deportel, who
have been driven out"?
The CHAIRMAN. And we find you here, a very broad-minded man, yet you
are almost foiced to take the stand and say that you can not deny that the Roil
of the United States should le held open to persons who are fleeing from
religious and political oppression?
Professor OCspe. Let us call it something else. Let us look upon them as
victims of the war for which they are not in any way responsible. To the
people over there it is very much like an earthquake. One day they were
tilling their farms and herding their flocks and pursuing a fairly contented
life, and suddenly It was all wiped out, and they were driven front hou.*.
and home and their property taken away and they have no place to go to.
If it had not been for the American destroyers there would have been
200,000 or 400,000 lost.
The CHAIRMAN. They may have been peaceful in this generation; have
they not been on the go continually?
Professor CAPPS. They have been subjects of that country for 2,701 years
more or less.
Mr. RAKER. Nine hundred years before Christ?
Professor CAPPS. You can not find a more valuable population In the his-
tory of the world than those Ionian Greeks. They have been there since
niany hundred years before Christ. the dominant element all along the
shores of the Mediterranean, with the same characteristics and the same
prosloerity. Indeed, it is the only prosperous part Asia Minor, and that is
the most persistent fact In history. Where can you parallel it?
The CHAIRMAN. We are confusing them for the moment-the Armenians
and Greeks.
Professor CAPPS. The Armenians have had ups and downs, but they have
been persistent.
The CHAIRMAN. I would say the same thing about the Jews; we have only
in this particular hearing began to Introduce religion by words.
Professor CAPPs. Is the Jew involved in this?
The CHAIRMAN. All last year we had to stand out against refugees, com-
ing In.
Professor CAPPS. The Turks and the Jew get along pretty well togetlwr.
Mr. RAi..a. What is the explanation of that?
Professor CAePs. The .Tew will submit rather readily to any kind of im-
position, provided he has a free chance to carry on his trade. He will
submit to taxes, and oppression, and he is almost protected from the one
thing that outrages Christians: His girls are not taken off in the harems,
but every Greek and Armenian has suffered.
Mr. RAKVB. Why Is not that done?
Professor CAr s. Because they belong to the other race and are kept In
seclusion. The Greek and Armenian girl moves around very mueh as an
American, and is s en and coveted, while the Jewish girl stays at home and
belongs to a peculiar religion and is less easily assimilated, 1 think.
Mr. RAKER. What does the Jew say when the Turk begins to interfere
with his business? Does he make any complaint or anything?
Professor CAPPS. He submits. Anyone can get along very readily with the
Turk, if he will accept his way of doing business and pay him ever so often
an extortionate bribe. The Greeks have learned that, too; it is only when
aroused by the political situation or the religious situation that they become
ADMIMSON OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 61
objectionable citizens to the Turks. They live very happily side by side in
*normal circumstances.
Mr. RAKE. Then If we used the designation of religious persecution by those
,now fleeing from the Turks, It could be readily said to be fleeing from religious
persecution, could it not?
Professor CAPPS. No; I do not think that is the first motive. I think It is
political persecution that we are seeing, but, for the moment, religion and
politics are Identical.
Mr. RAKER. On just what basis do you mean, Professor? Why do you think
it is political?
Professor CAPrs. It Is because the Allies In fighting the war made the proc-
lamation that went to every hamlet of Asia, to the effect that Christian
minorities were going to be protected; and if they were not minorities but
majorities, they would be given their national rights; they believed In that
and they looked upon the next stage as the millennium and prepared for It.
Mr. RAKER. That Is, these various peoples?
Professor CAPPS. These various peoples. Their national sentiment was re-
vived by the church. The priests became very 'much more important; they
preached the reunion of the race, which they have not known since the days
of Christ, or at least since the fall of the Byvantine Empire. The movement of
the Turks was very similar; It was a revival of nationalism, based on re-
ligion, but it was political.
Mr. RAKER. You think, Professor, it did not extend to the territory, but
was confint'd-the territory limit-we have had the expression here that those
people were getting the Western idea, and they were trying to enforce It, of
having a nationality or the State control, and they were getting a pride in It
and trying to drive every other nationality out.
Professor CAPPS. You mean the Turks?
Mr. RAKER. Yes.
Professor CAPPS. I have not thought that at all. The Turkish situation
seems to me rather simpler than that. The Turks found it very convenient
Indeed to collaborate with the Italians and the French in double-crossing the
English and starting something at that time. They have started a good deal
more than they thought they were starting. That is my own feeling about it;
I do not think It Is really Turkish strength at all which drove the Greeks out
of Smyrna. but the Turks supported by two of the Allies.
Mr. RAKER. Just when were you last in the Far East?
Professor CAPPS. I left Athens about the 1st of June, 1921. and I have not
been there since.
Mr. RAKER. How long had you been there?
Professor CAPPS. I had been there Just a year as the American minister. I
have been there off and on at rather frequent intervals since 1893. I have lived
there six years altogether, the last time as the kimerlean minister.
The CHAIRMAN. Of the State Department?
Professor CAPPS. Yes. sir.
Mr. WHITE. I take It. Professor, from your statement that politics and re-
ligion are Inlissoluble In the Turkish Government?
Professor CAPPS. At the present moment.
Mr. WHITE. And the Government of Turkey might appropriately be said to be
a government of Islamism.
Professor CAPPS. Yes; at the present moment. But two years ago I had very
frequent testimony from the Smyrna district that the Moslem element was the
most contented element In the population. I do not think they object to foreign
rule particularly. I have known a great many Moslems from Crete and Mace-
donla-acting as governors and as deputies to parliament, and so on. They
seemed to live in perfect contentment as subjects of another race, provided they
are protected In their property rights and In the peculiar practices of their re-
ligion.
Mr. RAKFR. Just what was the cause cf this Smyrna trouble. as you see it
how?
Professor CAP's. The weakening of the magnificent Greek Army by the con.
eviction that whether they won or not they were going to lose: that the Allies
were going to make them withdraw from Smyrna whether they won or not.
When the army was convinced of that they would not fight. They were with-
drawing at the time Kemal attacked. They were pulling out. There was not
the slightest use of standing up and fighting. becnnse they had lost. Of course,
82 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEE.
Kemal knew all about that, and he was fighting with French officers and German
,guns and various other allied war material.
The CHABMA29. It is charged that they were fighting In American uniforms?
Protessor CAre. They may have had some, but they bad German guns.
Mr. ItAxim. They claim they had bought lots of American uniforms?
Professor CAPPS. So I have heard.
Mr. Wurn. It really amounts, did It not, to tile French clandestinely to-
operating with thle former enemies of tile Allies in that territory?
Professor CAPPS. Yes.
TIhe CHAIRIAN. Did not the Greeks set out to reclaim territory tr
Professor CAPPS. ANo; the Greeks never pushed their lines beyond the bound.
ary laid down by the Allies until recently. They went in by thle Invitation of
the Allies, and their military actions were controlled entirely by allied military
advisors until they were forced to act alone.
The CHEAIRMAN. The same thing might have happened In Italy, und then we
might have been calesl upon to aduit any relative refugees?
Professor CArPs. That Is a thing that could not lauve happened. You could
have anl earthquake in illy. Suppose you disl have an earthquake, which
devastated Sicily and southern Italy. we would have changed the law and
let them In.
Air. IIAKEU. No%'. We would provide for them.
The CHAIRMA~N. You have nao estimate whatever of the number that might
come In?
Professor CAPPS. I think under ths b~ii-wakcl Is n very cautions 1,111-a very
small number Indeed might come ii. I think you tu~ght get tider thim 15.00
as; a. maximum, or 12.000 to 15,000 people.
Mr. itAgmi. Are we not In a delicate position to take In as refugee people
when the English, lFrench, Italians tire so near to the scene of disaster and
abundantly able, to provide for their needs?
Professor CAPPS. If we could settle them all lin France, sir, or England, I
think It would be a juster solution ; that Is, If we could make tile powers over
there take care of their own product.
Mir. Itai*:n. The monecy could go to Italy, could it not?
I'rofes:Ror CAPP'S. Italy In ruspons~fle for atauch of what lati imailieaied.
51r. IIAxtm. It has been wid here that these Meoplo canl furnish plenty of
niontey kindl means, but they have not any homes anmd they can not get pro.
1 Uiss mixm. Tio mdnit itese liscole Is reftigees through relatives under the
bl its a nosw written miighat Indsicate lttu onvme these fiolkii arrived they would
take (out first papers. asusl then maisily for moisre refugee relatIves. There is thint
liissAil~Ihty that woulds bring It uplto more than ii.4*0. Have youi noy tlsmgmt
Jmto5 whsat t'hfy wouildl eile I'amsst f thesis?
lPiofetvssr ('.%w-ts. 'l'iere 1- ismot)hhig IefjIsgPPt's (1-01118111.%Imli. 'i'lhiIit~e. 115141
psrobaubly ('(Inst lit iimsplt wiltsIhave relatives fitis 1m untry vsull tint lIe :I
very large nmbaler. Iisw inny treehs liave- we lit ftiis ismultry?
M.r. WVairrr. 'Two liinuret"I tund niely-seven tltoussansi.
i'rotesswir 41.%rsn Ailmoxt mll of them eotte front (iee isroiiit and tile Isianidk;
onmthe other Wile, (sin file Ailrht~C side.
Thie t'llit.wI:M. We. linate giot thle (Ireekls dlrlslu's ills ass e~tilit-g front (irt.44-.
llummainma Tlurkishm .ral'la. kind Tumrhina Asia.
Profs1ti' (CAPPS. I lire you fileo numbers?
Tilt' ('stAmmM %.. Y04, lBnt It i1 sh dcii isdyVtI~tes, and1 It Is hard ito figure It
out. Bunt liafssre wi' s'iiild poss it bili of MhIN Uit lmi' N, iitary courses, even
If we shourldi drive aswitiuailIts we (could litl h t lime 1 Issus. andi Seate, thle Isrisi
libilitle;-t Ilre Ili.-It (he whosle 00tsiitsiltlopillt -4l1113t:4111 W4111ll lbe 111141(e4
tomthe dls*
tress over there. ansi that wmilsl sild mm very la rge numbeisr?
Professor CAPPSm'. Va's it woUuild 11-
iile latvsedl lmanit'alstey gmots'lr, and14tia'ia
iw.t wviiitl lst'.41lsiait i try much grcuter suaise.
'iTe ('aai~ivka. Anil thevn If we found a In(ons~t'nople
it there were a great
tummyj. liiissisa111s fatima Ititssias, ntil OsfasmayVusIlac' ae01lus, we W40sulul lie ilk slly
bosundi to take care of thei ats refugees, mad be doling still at greater serike,
would we mot?
Mr. It-%urn. W~outld It be your view tlhat It things should grow worse. Ili Hus-
smi that we should take ltusssain refugees?
Professor Cai-rs Nio; I tihiak time sutiton Is totaslly different. I sto not uni-
dersmns that time average Rtussian refugee was driven oult (if lIs hoatac. I
caught not to Say 11refugeCe "--thae yis'tiass oif file waur, tile people, we have been
ADMISSION OF Ni-,Al EAST RIEFUGEES.. 68
hleljlilig Ily Nl~mIyhagilj f004111 iiiiier regulatliis. Buit tire landi wits deviatatedl by
their own f1liaevist revolutam. and put out oft (lmtmiliois mtus wits not iiiis-
Ing the fawtit. So we went over there aid fell the people Ii border to rehahItitte
tlaeni In their own lioje.
P'rofesmsor CAPP8. I feel sometwhant differently myself about the ituswians.
partly because they brought tite trouble oil thenaselves. Hitt these people lare
innocent victims of the Allies, including time 1!nItsed Statesi. They hadl no part
In the war; they were not Interested In It.
All. RARY11. I do not get yet by wbin they were must cred and their prop-
erty hourried.
P'rofesstor ("Apps..It Is the work of taraatcai foolish faiiatics, riding tilt thle
ware of enthuslotm, after what they called a great victory over the English
and French.
Tilt- CHAIRMAN. We get It through the raewspaper-t by the itatemiteiat or is
Y. A~t.C. A. worker who appeared before the committee that the refugees
burned some of thle property lin a part of tile towni to stopt the etein..
M11.WrIam.-L Wits~ It not thle Hoping (Ireek army?
The- V'iutaAx. Possibly.
Mr. Wit IT#.. That burned somea of tile Chiristian villages that hiad bee~n attain-
dom-e1.
Air. lixit.oR It s a good deal like the story that tile Geranas destroyifl the
.emcterit's of France mad Belgium durhmig the war. Of course, they were dte-
jtroyed. Thle Germans destroyedl them partly by coming fit; and then whi
the anglsh anad tlt-i French qtutl the Blgians got after the Germans lamthey
fiti. 11114tried to le beiffd these ceinetery walls and we iiioatroyei and( rtized
themato the ground lii orde(r to destroy the enenaliy. that was natural. wait It 114t?
Professor CArPS-. Yes.
ilt- CIIAiniMAN. I want to astk you about your views on linnlgration gen-
eraily. Have you given uct~ih thought about Its applicability?
Professor CAPes. Very little, through I fill( some (omtact with the pr-eseas
imilgriii liaw when it wal. being punt into effect. because I liippeneod to he
over there lt tile lttle, I have tfal to it itood malty or oulr Anitericiiii ronxititi
ablsiad aibouit how it would work.
31r ltix. You ti * spjeakinag tiIout 10)177
Pl'rtm.r ( .las. Nis: 1 11111 sittalhig of the sict of 11)21. tile iquotia law: andl
I iiever tsaw aii Aiaii eo ini-Atinl who illih not think thnt lie could it aake it
very 1itaicia hislter ttelixctioa it Inte Interests otf Mhe Itnited Stautes If lie were
giveii the chaiiue tlia It would ever Ie miadle Ny the w4'lr$Cl44tliIJ JfT(Wi'R
Uitd iris behig folilowedt Ira the iiltllieittii of this lawr.
3Mr. Wiiam. It iN logical to believe thAt tile coaaanaltltee will give ufle Coll-
slilaiogu lin the matter. S~uipose they 111(1 introduce a law aind It prisseul the
House-
Tilt- CHAIRMAN (iaterltoimagbr. Vie oover pas.%W4 81lit%% liermling tile 4u-msmls
to make selection.
All. WnalTr. NO, lit IUP l1a15I'il wlm we think is aitlbetter laiw thuramigh the.
hisuuise. The j ertleuaaaii's stiteitielit wimitha"t those consuls11i tiaoagilit they 4-401i1d
have jutitisei a bet ter laiw.
irfetoctr C~APPS. Tlhey Coul1d Ihave 11111l0 It better selectiu'ri.
1Mr. Wliian;. I ayV 11h11t It 1 iiipsslidle thait tlabm comiittee tinak they elould
htine a1n114l0 a better h11w In passIng thle lill-
Thet CHIANr (Intertwshig). You art iroplthagito thie matter we hear
tll the tiae-seleitive imainnigaiI on.
.Xti. e 41141
WViua. Riot linve thll. eteaiient of itexihllity. M~r. ('laaa1nuii:
d11d we?
ill.(r~tA. No. But If we had ha11l ally flexibility lit t it. It would halivis
been till uctiled upby refugees. sluice tile tfirst lay (if tihe laiw. froalnl countries.
It was nott possible to write namythimag tinit carrlied ainy elaistIcIty without it belig
ftkeai lby Whitt it-Aith0u In sight.
.Mr1.W1uimT. mil yet we tire heinz clasmsd every dlay because we (lid niot ito It.
3Mr. 11A~rit. Altriamn ~inacoln and Gteorge Waishington were vv.'ssed ' hilt they
were great inert andi did the right tiing. nevertheleWss.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you studied or formed any opinions as to the regulation
of Immigration Into the United States, generally?
Professor CArps. Not at all since the law was passed. I was an Interested
observer and a somewhat sympathetic observer of the restrictions and I should
25900-28-aa 1-0----5
64 AD31ii4SIOX OF 'NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
like to see selective Immnigration sao that we could take our choice of such Ilile
its tire to come. But I wouldI not deny legal reniedy to a great naitional
disaster that calls for our contribution. The President wits good enough to
appoint wne it inenaer of tile great committee of Mr. Hayes, and I get till the
reports about the horrible things that tire happeig cover there. It seeans to me
that we should do our duty lIn providing homes for those homeless people, some-
flow; certainly there Is enough American ingenity to take care of tile problem
ats regards Immigration.
Mr. ItAxY.. There ought to lie, hul they tire lnot working very fast yet. Would
It not lie better to provided lionit' anti places for tihise hite)iole hit iaeajr4y territory,
Priofeiwor CAI-Pg. If we would do tMat, I think it wouldI ha. the( grelltet thing
[it thbe world.
Mr. H1ARMII Let ine cull your attention to something to show how Ilaejirsighteit
we tire. We have got ships bly the hundrls tiid ll to tile wttllis ot.n We
hanve got jun that con mnan them -: we have produce it( till kinds that Ns olecityijag
and rotting a114 going to waste. Wh~y cll we not lprovide for those peIcille where
thncy are antl close by, Instead (of bringing them over liere flow anid creating moure
Professor C,%n's. It would be a magnificent thing If you would 414)It: there
wouilld not lie anything finer in the wvay of relief.
Mr. CAnix. Would you think that a practical proposition
1M.. RIAKER. Certainly It would be, as compared to bringing a single one to
Ne* York. I want to go a little further with tile professor on the idea that
we ewe to a foreign person a living simply because they have a relative in this
country. Do we consider we do?
Professor CAP& On humanitarian grounds we do owe something to a citizen
who has a relative over there that has been overwhelmed In this disaster.
Mr. RtAxim. I nft talking about It solely on account of the relative. A man
coies here voluntarily, maybe against the wish of all his relatives, and becomes
a citizen. Do we owe anything to those who remain there because of the fact
there Is one who came over here and became a citizen?
Professor CAPPS. Not just for that reasons, liut we oiwe'sint'li turnthe wlli
who c-.inle here. If hte hnas at haian eart, ie Is thil:kinlIg aliuiut Ihiuist. relatijies
over there whent they are caught litit tinug like this. If %,fill were there. youl
would strip)yourself olf coat, shirt, sind sliliet.
Mr. it~un. Tfle trouble is. Professor. so inny witiest- and4 s4) mainy int'n,
yourll'f all.d myself inceludied, will Hot uiisass's'ilate this. 41 aIster fro the V'(li-
('Nell' questions. I ali getting down to, thie 'onc'rete3 quesCtion1, that there shouldm
lnot hie anly di-tinctionl between it main hei'e simply beenume lie hima relative lin
preference to thoxve ah'lns living abroad; that we should look to the question
of whether or not the alien will inake tinl American eitirzen first. lnst, ald aill
the time, excluding fiow questions (or (tisastel'. l)oes wit1 that aint tulilpeal tip
you "
Professor t e'.I think It Is very gootl Its ftiias it gres. '11it 1 1141not se
ill that11 clause, Mr. linker, regaribtig rehaionsipl inythinig hut lite gumral.1y
we 41e11a11d thilt there shall lie suilIiiC tIlltms of supplor't whienl they cmie owvr.
It Is evonini(' entirely.
The CHAIRtMAN~t. While43 We tire omstilerliq.g tis lill It is ailtogethier pos-sililt, I
plan1 wihl develop. just its hit regaii-l to) 4elitl'l Rulssia, lii te 4'uiinniitiinw iuir
flipe lihysicAll relief (if tine reftigees.
h'ro4fessor -!I't's. It ha~s got to lie mkore stlulieiclouls tiit itluimig eise 414111 Ili
"Ill thliy If it Is golig too lie effective. hilt. It Inight lie chneapei' 11114better rfir
oilir imt!onal life if weC4141 not hiaive to oletil within this prlemlht by Iiiillrilitg
these plet4111. Thiere is nlo question about tHat. But Maitt would tut tIlfeed illy
jud~gment onI such a. pi'oioosl as tlt. because' we are no4t lig the, otlher.
T4'IIAOMAN . lit on that Ilitc. the reprieselltsitive olf lte Near Eiastt itlief
Ass4K'initiotl statfllell ter' lin Atsihitoa testified the other (ilty. Illt I notitvil
that fte HElits'oiial hishoq% mii others were' intikitig tIis their r'eii~tt First,
that for tihose actually ait our doors, to Itie nitinlier nif I few hundreds. shiouild lie.
Illiitteid. an1d fimeti top itiake Ilossile. the tnmishiiof ta ihmilitel num101li hit
u'X'es (of lte il1laa c'iiiig to failies guano iteed not1 to become public vfitlil-
lies. So$ 111311 the iii'ohosai hlait anyone dhares too inta1ke 410 lnt go beyond
!-omnleilning flin l iuight lit' vouisider4I at llimltel numiber lit pr'oportin to) the'
-Ivatl itanubi'm lit distirss and ti lie a list ress. Wuld~ It hu it'ph iiti4'h liitlt'
If fthe 1ll4oveie'it ('401fi4'-tarlt Alo we' couild lit-Ili star It I(]it 41441mila ilio %-it
ADMISO)N *OF NEAR LAST REFUGEES.
time rest of file' woirfl IrnYputting these peopjlle back ol thmese very (arns Ilucy
hanve land'..
Prlfesvsor (CAm'as. That Is whot We miuglait to (to.
Thie C'HAlIRMAN. We must (10 It; till( tit* mere question of whether to) lilt ill
I0(xi or 12AMAtI Is milt a. diuie in the htuc'lat and is4 hardly to be considered 118
to lie coined Withitime whole prooiposItlon.
Pa'ftM..'s1o ('APiS. A very slight ileviata, but It Is at very definite mulevill-
tion, froin two p~ointit.'f view-it takes vare, of tis snaill number of people w~hio
arte 110 jitirtlenlai' detrimencat to tip; and. Ii the second place, It relieves the
animigisla of a goold manty families who are established over here.
'rie CHJAIRMAN. D~o you think that the ctmi1ttee would be justilitl lit thinak-
Ing that they would "'oine over lit Anmerican sh~p-A. either as firsI1-iaiss toi-
steeraige panssengers?
l'rmr."tr C'APP'. I think that It woldh lie.
IC.ANYa.a.Wfomldit make utiy miffenm'amee. lit tile relie-f of suffering hlian lity.
undelmr the clrcumstanae", whether Otey cammne til Amierican Ships for frim1
stll,,?' if they were broughIt till Amuerican shIjns that would idive siotme hullh-
vitiutl here it little profit.
'T'e ('i.xntis . E'x'epjt this. that tie steauilili. vlliilanks right tis filly.
ire' keeping amgt'zmi right around314 thhs rm1(iial ehildy 141m. Witli the himlk, thtat
Nsositlmhiiig, will lakhe ishaee Miait illh give theim uisi milalsatua~ty tooattiki' smlast'
P1w441t.
M~r. Wimiro:. I %vtouldli1ke- tip aisk you SIN qiiest , ;f we w'ntlh laot really ble Ii
at iar lp siti'i isr aNWipi. that we would imlit sa1ve froisa the buffetai waives.
uilli er shlip. atid it-Mrinit iltthe iije ton lilt- either ship.- to) be diwaxell. iSmat
thmat (pill lmslAtioi.. Wvmsiiiihiu't t hait practicably bie our position. anid shmouldln't we
ptr'ts'Isl fisilif at 11.111(l to0 -uifferinag lauiaity where tno 31111)1k Interest will lie-
.4411mi1aI'llifmi
YAmim Hid h1131t IN- What this amitasurm prevelits nbh~oiiitely.
lmsilsmir ('Art's. I think tit-it there' will lie itsolutt'ly no pulthic tercst
Jeu 'tll A4ibys thhill)I. lo'eaiase It shi1-e ist gol deepj e'iioigh Into the0 mjuestiml.
but Soill.sat amsit 414es gno It relieves smat, pseolie over iere front i~si hittist
slfl'r.iag. I limimie kiimwi it imibier mif isspie, whose brothers aiil slstms or
soul.' mafth fill't (over there, 14,ompi Aiimermai i-tizis, yout kimow. wipiuati. siilily
tili1m lit pleces lby auixiely mover Iate ivel-pMmii if their people over*therett. I tlhik
111'. WHITE. Under the isrovisiois oft tis 1,111, they ale tile llerslls I lint wIill
be bleielitted. Tme bill provides " thmat time petition must be acconilpaitlell by
the statentealt of twvo responsible citizens of the United States to whoma the
petititier Is kaowat (liat to the best of their knowledge the statemnimts iaide Iit
tile itithma 111.0 tamie and thait tile petitioner Is ta responsible person. able it) sup-
po~rt the refugee marrefugees for vhmose admission application Is anoie." That
iprovidles timat there must blintwo credible wititess--s, corroborating these fliits.
'The bill totally covers that.
31r.I~:. I wimlti iosk ymim a qltmm'siiton. 1ass Ymlsikil$%% ai11y"111- .1114411thi'iile
(.ilittmtif off I hail Mrls. l h
11m'ti l cintittin
4 1114 iv
w1:i 1il hs iva l.
i'iisit'ssiai' VAIi'iS. Ali1i1mi %V1211mI
.~Mr Z~m. I ol 3-Ell maouliythiii-.0141111ii whlat iMrs. iims hau1l thi wih i1:1
w"'aa.
I 'msit.ssim'r CIi's. Slit!1d1d 1su1t hlmve t15i im tin. mo %Iiilm it.
3m' r (~ia. himttlsa141lei wams itot uist'il isa iiac tag it. Ili siarnling It
i'is~f'smiaI APIS.I els amist tliaik o. Iia t ime first plawe she Is t rusteed. S~u iss'sw
limit 10111' vm'ry mmsmam'11l maimnaiy mlfherainil. Silm' Is t riise.. I Imicaili, shv. calsl am11t:
"et I ita, healhhami: lint slim 111m. vemy Iliserail iaam'mitse. 11 iN amamhle, 11ii1 shat m'issk
.i isfl'ity ismtgealb' Whieni slit' issat4-iticl ]tlet) 1li1t famisillyV. Tom aMV 1:1 maaaa
rh-mi sim's lit lham fammmihy .1aisi tlm'yV aill ii41t'd :mItl tasmima-y. I havte mass sl411mlit. .1ail
8imm.is- very~i i'ist'rols.
.Nhin'. 'misi:. m'assti1t lie smiioli iiem tin, limi le lK'g lback mn lte l inm'imt'l
I msfsiA''mP'S. it wamsIsa sutedo, hut I sit ittt think -.41. 1 wiams tiers' n11ilml],i-
Iig li1am 111sie. asmimi411ilm act see nimly evimim'aaes mlf thle uist.eof tOwtittoi'.y.
3a'. VmtAsS . I watmr If$ aa4sk iinliim' mjiin'stlms. I aivimt Ily tile lanl'li Mamlsilo
I'-
-5) 11IS 1isa m imtv m'Elilmg to) fiml, 4'esiiitm.y. Nfnaw. 1mi1wcamllshine ge-t 'am..,4 ille
t
S 1ams'am Wl.' W1t.ut iaim'asiis m'aim suit' use' Ill get i1top tin' -mumtl'y'
I 'as.mssira I' m'ms.Slit' I-.lii 51411 iiiig ist'i'e tO1live.
Wm11'i.m:.
11?sm
i'i'et'i'sssa'I
'A ' . 114 1as
i 1C. 1.4'
.'shill ltviin a,~ lilt itttgas
66 ADMI"*IOX OF NEAR EAST RPUGES.
Mr. Cxtnax. 'That does not make any difference. Her husband Is noe longer an
official of the present government?
iProfe'ssor CArps. No. But she could come here, to pass through, or she could
stay here three or four months. He would not think of coming here to live. He
ist too hakppy ii Par~s.
Mr1. (AFItn. NOW, I want to call your attention to this one element of these
people to be aditted~ its relative. Sect~on 0 provides "That there shnll be
received Its evidence opf tile residence of at refugee fit) anl extratt-t from any
Itrth registration kelit iby a cvli or ecciustical authority, or any official registry
certifyling to thle fact (if hig residence; (h) the ot1k-hal statti-anents of ail agenti
qif tny v orporationk orgaiitzed for philantaroaic purposes intilt- tilt ]laws oft thle
United ls'tates or muy State thereof engaged In the relief or reftigees aund ittilinted
with amly tiunni111ttee. iplpolutel by the iresitdlnt tAl' Nearl Pawli relief. if tile agent
:.s delegated yvIlils organization for the purpo:,e."
'Thlat language Is very loose, is it not? Trhey are, of cotirsi'. wit haul tiny civil
or ecistical records. ats thpy have been burned.
Professor CAPPS. They wvill be without those records. They will have beell
destroyed. Ninety-nun'e uer ce-nt of the refuigees will have left their isant's wtn-
out any kind of reu'erds. tii anythin.- else except tilt' dollies that they were
wearing.
Mr. RA1I1.R. Tn 'Sani Praic'seo, whenever we have found at '(linauaim that we
thought wlIs illegllY in thet COUntry he hits always had three or t~bir mlenl lest ify
that Is papers were destroyed In the fire, anid ni4 a result, they hayv' -rotten in
until they got rid oft that particular law.
Proft'sseu ('Acs. Von will hind. however. that at great deal elf loval Inrornia-
tiola I-an he ob~tinied li.v anfybodiy who knows that country. Th country there
Is, remuark~ably wvell organized aid vital stattistics well kept. I have liever Seen
anyting like it in flt cfiIitny Tlie president of at village conutunity knows
every ma.woiuni, aind cihlid. !Jratcutliy. and lparticiilariy their birth records
tire amiraibly kept. If you (lauld get it person to testify lis to those pelople
lit that -omairy, you could abisoluitely depeindil onIt. They are amuchl more strict
about keeping tioqe records than we, are. You (-tlt not jzet born over there with-
out lacing recortl. S.i that I bielieve- that therp ight be~ lier'ms ort it vowl-
ptnt coatill Wvit hias beenl there for stoime thite cotilti get fats lin a mainr
tMat would satisfy thet demuands and your njis.
The (IuAiMN~a~. Now. we id that right lin thle IUnted IStates that the ("reeks
tire dimn time%same thiig; keepinA tail onilt l of thoir people. tilt- number. the
kind tif husiess, thiat they are lin lin whiet aill of thle better (;reeks get lin, andi
yet they till object to registration on time- part of tlt' United States, awli till
other allen pohiulatiithnalqo.
Mr. 1t.ANFv. Th'iey are all foir themselves, atid lnt inuch for Ainurkic and *itas
whly is It?
IPi-tsexsor ('APm'S. I tihik flint the GreeRN alec pretty good vt'ltzenas. The Giee'k
from the niaihand. I -.ti sure is,. becuitse I have seen at great inny of those.
Unfortunately wvhen they come over lhere they are mnore likely to biecowe City
dwellers, although I think not probably more than any other iminlgrains. but
lie Is essentially a fiiriner. He Is not a eriiinal, but is very triswmitliy. P'er-
sonnaly. I inlik fliat tile Greeks are very luigh-graule Immuigrtats. Per-sonally. I
tink that they are very superior to the southern Itallatis.
Their family tratlitionis tire very excellent. The loyalty (if atsoni to lit-, fatheirs
and miothier is anl example for any Aniericain.
31r. Wht.mi~. How dotes It come flhat so inainy Greeks that have coto. over to
til- country, say 5 years back to 15i years bink, wvere single wmen*.
Professor ('.mvrs. Weause tile agricultural conditions were so baid. lit tile
first place, Greek custom requires the brother to work until lie has provided
Is Aister with a dowry before hie canil marry limitself. lie frequently gives up his
simmre in Is father's, estatte anid colles to the United States aind lets Is Aister
have It so tlhnt site can niarry. The women all have their lowers. The father
anti mother are also always caredl for. You never hear of any theirt to evalle
such an obligation. It Is a trait worthy of Imnitation.
Mr. lt.ixsn. flow lipig will It take th('u III tile VIslited States to) it,'.' fli-t'
clistoumsq,
Professor ('AP'S. I prestime tlhnt a generation will probably SluIli tlneii.
Mr. WiiE. it is the power of example.
ADMISSION OF "NEAR EAST REFUILIES. 67
I'VrfCeSsor ('si-is. The power of example. They do iot stay tiff fit herds by
tlaenaselves. Thiey naiiuihlte themselves with the people airomidu tisi:ns. We
wanit thact. Ini religion the-v stick to their church for quite a while.
5Mr. Wiiim. Let taeuin stick.
I'roreseeor us.Let them stick. Thien. they become *Bnaptists or I'resliy-
terans.
Tile ('li.AsaMAN. If there iR nothing more wo will now adjourn. Leave yoli*
initaol odersq so that the tralns(-riit can be sent to youl for revision.
I Whereiiion. -it 4.80 o'clock. the t-oiainittee adjourned.)
('os ii ETr-EF ON I MMIGtoRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

HOUSE OF RtEPRESENTATIVES,
Tuesday, D)cminher 19, 1922
The cooimiitteti this day met, Iloua. Albert Johnson (chaliman) presiding.
Trie IIIaiikiAN. The commnittre will be In order.
31r. WHTE. IVA-.Viiranian, Ii view of the suggestion youi made ait the herling
yesterday afte-uesn to thle effect that If we could do It. the witness should
lie iflioweil to proceed without Interruption, I would suggest that It be done.
TIPe persons here to-daty would like to. as for as liispssible. conchidee their state-
wsent.; to-da~y. You said, MNr.Chairman. that It was desirable to close the
bearings to-dlay If it could he done.
TIPP ('11AIRSIAN. Not necessarily. I have a long list of witnesses In addition
tea those present Iiow~.
3Mr. WHIiim. We hanve with us this morning Dr. Esther Lovejoy, who will
lie the first witnexs. and she will hie followed by Mr. Charles Vernon Vick-rey.
SIK-aklig rfor myself. I ow very muixiaits to hiear '.%r. G~eorge Horton. consul
getia-ratl. formerly stationed at Smiyrna. If It pleases the chairman and the
commisittee-. I shotailcl like to have D~r. ESther Lovejoy proceed with her state-
ment.
The CAiRminAN. I have here this morning a wtinber of telegramls addressed
itsanii- litit which-l belong- to the committee. They should be read Into the record.
The iirst Is a telegron from J. Drachsler. of New York City. of thne confer-
vi.-t ont Immiigrationi pollcy. It says:
Ni~w Yoi, ID'eelic 1., 1922.
li. Aintwirr IoiNxsox,
Ilouxiw of I11c~pr?nluftatrcs, l1a.-hImngton. . :
At M1is Ilkilanit's Suiggestion we have been preparing folders of Informiation
(in Ne'ar 1EaIsiKNiU110titai1i tihiniiig mapis. figures on distribution of Ghreeks and
Ar-zmenians fin United States, relief action of European governments, brief
historl'-sl stirvey of Turkish EKuropean relations, latest Near East relief
tables. anid other Inaformsationa available at short notice. We explevt to get this
off too-111s-ea'w 11aae-nlng specifil de-liver-y. to he lit onr- hands lay W~eliaesqlziy
J. DBACIISLEII,
(km ferctice oii Immingration Policy.
Tbe at~sss~ The ne(xtIis rrors Carrie K1 Woodlward, secretary to R1ev. 4
C. N. Lastharop.. i-xe-ci lyev Swretilry of ti- epartnmt )f Chsristian Social serv-
ie ea tif t-i l'i-utexhaiat Episv-eqin Church. 281 Foujrth Avenue. New York City.
It s, ys :
'i'ia-
I 's~aa '.N T lh~-1ext Iss itht-gnsaml fr-ila Cha11-f-s S. .1Mai'aarhsad. ge.ea~l
sa-s-itary V1.41-e1-1ai41111esicef
1 tihe Cilnr-ites of ( hrlsthimi Aaaseri-a. Neu Yor-k C'ity.
hiv- 'ayes:
Ilbieu. A1' ri.1a.eiaN~

I 'Ifirism iil IOU' Vw"i,mtilluc fill IInimhi!IfIiol.
11lasiiim, 1). V.:
Enru a- sl 141t yoiu wvillaasc lo'iri4aaa for refsage-s lecli-# tis willI i-ii
1HIeeit
Ilivi s.ji sit 4-f 46111-law~s 1cie-it I1i-c-
I li6nS11ahi 1411.% Thie metni :cii1
ist-4.ii ea is-t
W111114,ia11 ho 141iiele141t, 1il Nait in wee t* s- lie retfei.-up.
('stut.S.i.~e'Ai?.ANip.
Go-w! ~iJ - siliii (Vtt U'simit
tif lie Chicu, ha-v tif C/,a'jtjf.- .1me
Ipi. c
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST R1EFV(;EES.
'lie
'amAiillS.Nest Is emteh'trs.mnj (moan 1's W. 4C'.
tinon. S.elttle, AliVmssk,
SEATLE.WA~.. Drsrnaber isl,112

ili1m. AMIisTo .JOiiN-MN.
1i,,., 'is of Itspresentnfires, Wasuo8ilsutmn 1). C.:
sentimenat lin favor oaf Near- East refugee- att imogst aiozurelat. limccrutecl lay
Stli o' l'edenttem W maclia's Clulas. rel.reseittlug 42 orgaImzatiomis with 5.000 aieui-
laerslip. and lay Rainier Noble Post. Ammerican Legio. (Chamber Cotmmere
moltlocrlzo's I'nderwoool to) give It hoiletilito aittemitionl. Marit M~ttis'i alit]
collie" s'lergy iiaa urIginig pollimr tliiiort fromn ipulit. Mai5t' ittiulsi tippitiatt'
fmcvo-mrblo' aetloit froam youl.
Mrs. V. W. SM3iasos.
h t 'aIam.ivx. Nvxt Is amteeg-rm t11 31. %v. ialtlio'ws. seasttio. wisl. it
I-mo. ;%mtirr .Jtml N~oi.i.

WaxIlinilpt. 1). (C.:
Hive just been loforeis'si that 1)111 to sculmie Aramenim n'(nigeesN will c-one up
for tllsc'taslonii ts-enhrrow, Tmoeslay. stoo flail 301l tare ouocpto.iog It. This, Is an
e'meigeni-y. imi I tinhk fron every liu11ilte ro'as-obli thleset pol sulojetes4 should
IN"' amlcittesl. ('11ii 3'OIi susSISt?
M1.A. Mvla~s
Trilt' 4'i.%,ilim AN. Nt'xt is rrflO MrN. 4). l-X l.aom1suuao
Xo'actils. Wash. Itnaol
SE ATTI K WASm;ILs'rn I. 191..
lion1. AIMuERT .ToIMstaN.
lonsi' of ifeprics'ltre. llflfhini!t51f. 1). C.:
Wnslilitc mlolOtPO III sytitjtllmy for Neai' Mist refmigt'es. Avt lorsougimt
4s'lmaiaabl' of comiioitrc's. Aioo'k-4im 1.egim. Woeoao'os lPt'roen il I 'los. andmolrin
pulpits. Mother wvrltt' frm Albeit's. l1iuirl4,4 to-flill o'misls'a WmISiliig-too
men umnt) weo'ei will orimioerm'iumaths'r lio colt! bloc'0 )l-e orolopsia itoi to tik
lmumiariitarlanai it.
M rs. 0. F.1 it soNx.
.%N.Nt'xt is. is toitgosomi irtamie .1. Atitlne Y'-i.'r.Si'lft.Wso.
'Flat' ('am.%miam
1lou). AOIM~iT'i loiNoN

hauntm of !iij:'mwift
ssiao WIcxlslsa. ID.C.:
Itaile- NMille P'ot nuimoiiiusy t';cvosrs joassig'ft eof'Noser l':;osa m'fm~t'st.
v
i'lat ('ii AlusIN. Trit'vm tiaore Is. -o ssi it4'; zcmuIiamoi'

1114-1 t ! pa
1icon " Eoiio'igo'iioy
mol- 'osmls or'og'- eniiig tern
jlnin ieuatloua it'gisho ticoe foe- st'Ilef orf i 'c'lc :1o4
melaflatma'i iii Awiisots.'' It rs'ols:
N.EGE WY,~IMlIGRAtiTION LEI-SIlAIitN 1011 ito-:is04 OF, timO-K A~il A~itNO*xAN
usm1,44sE~ms
COINGxo TO RELKA'TIES IN AI.siOX%.
At Iilis1% Islanmat mosomy (iheck anmd Aine'Wim refugees fromi Asiso Mi auir anmdi
Tlcrate coming to relatives lit .Aimericas sort' bic'ag cls'ioieol sie1liisiomi ho-caus-e
amnnumal quota (Tuirkish, 2,399) are exhausted f'or the ycar.m
l'rosjvot'tis Amomtrl-ami (gi-etks anti Ar -imeniianus eo'sia' to, rin olo Aeio'miu reli
livtts 100owsu iffiog1J pria-tomu~ sftmot-uscit
l Ihi Sieymisst sol10 Tihracoe. it cale int
slo so be-so se sif quota lisoit ego'xbs ec .
Tor'fr'.C ooms- sat imic) lie siske'd to isass tooit'rL~t'amty Jj 1,111 ic iiat11 Ii
c'o'Sof tie 'Iso 4"reekh anmdc Ana t-ismi i0u'I'iL.tt' frm-ii 'i'm r~stiIoih ew ic Y~
sut milt'r ftim Th917 Isaw. oismhbr ea\om
ssr 1112-23.
1. meekp-s em-. Arealt-misco
114 thist lpao:' Tn-k-islh term-i story: 'Ilii vit-14'cmios masi-
lis Tum
o~, (~tou Int Atstiat rmcil siac relIi# utua mitiilt 'IieS III tlcci r territory.
Thooy aire ortlsi-iag them stilt. Lordl ('muma. alto' Timus. Nivt'aoho'i 9. stays:
-nt . 'ra --- oe iui ao lt lamwthl-sso t ialoaao'mot ocf nmcatmlI a;!i Turks. It
is so cselis-r SO sclmoacosl cmeA IIIl 1:atllo'ocma-trImcIit we ilsl swhuh owsa ll (boIlost'
tieso-ut-i-ra focr Its lift' Slimpily lotsoaw6' iiiy :11,4 fr'lootTclkP tft I1;41j, tile
Ai)MSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 69
Keatalist governor of Constantinople, Is reported, the Suiz, November 7, as send-
Ing note to 'allied commissioners demanding Instant expulsion of Greeks from
Constantinople. Smyrna is a tragic witness of their policy of banishment.
The roads from Thrace are crowded with refugees.
2. Greece can not support all the refugees: Even with the help of Bulgaria
andi Serba, Greece cUD not care for all the 1,000,000 refugees pouring upon her,
of whoiti more than 500,000 have already arrived. (Figures from Hays coor-
dinatinig commisittee on Near East fund.)
Thie jiojiulatioti1 of (Greece was 4,78,000. It Is an agricultural country that
,i: stists 711Iter centt of Its own food. A 120 per cent Increase In population
.;Aueing With only 44,000 employed in Industry, she can not readily
atestedo them. idustrially. BI. P. Salmon, ex-president American Chamber of
Commterce- In Greewc, says only 200.000 to 300,000 can be absorbed Into agri-
culture.
The Cioveranent Is feeding find sheltering the refugees, but can not con-
tinue unaided. They have only two months' supply of grains (November 8).
America will need to help through the Hays committee, not for one year but
for several.
3. America could receive a limited number of selected Imigrant refugees
without difficulty:
(it)- They would have to meet strict requirements of 1917 law.
(hi) They would come lit care of responsible relatives.
(c) They would not upset time labor market, being mostly women and Offli-
drem.. Last year America lost, net, 67,000 unskilled laborers, anid net gain in
nin poswer. clietly skilled. wvas only 0,518; 3,828 uore Greeks left Aumerica In
19,21-22 than entered.
(it) Greek4 and Armniuians have proven themselves readily assinmilabie. good,
Industrious workmen, eager for education, loyal lit the war, and good citizens.
4. itestrictive limnigitlon can be made compatible with Amercan tradition
tor to~lmi
4 vletims of suchi man umfors;ecalle emergency.
i. ('ongress. wivitiwmt ilstmrln thet immigration restriction policy, could
e'.r emrgcmacy ir.lk'. Jigs n' wffs11 lvlsg poissible Waiys:
1I':' Iy I Ithuu, flip sinoi re-striction on Tfurkishm territory for remainder of
ijiigrmtonu year 19522-23I to admit othmerwise nmdmissible mr'rugoes (imoneless
Ip'rsosv fdouilile l ii 'Frks territory prior to september 1, 1922), coining to
rlasrives wits sliml guinranutee, Malt they nt become public charges.
fbi 'I'iwe samet uIS aloli'. :aeimsunaxinium numbler-1500I or 100,000.
6;. BY Suchi slitmilly illesticle Iegslattiois We can give substantial relief to
.11fees obviate muchl lived fotr Ainmr:ciin charity. aind reunite famillies.
'The CHAIRMAN. And I have a letter from Mr. Charles T. Urlilgenmi, writteni
lit this city. It appears that Mr. Bridgemnian Is connected Willi thle C'onference
onttlnnigi~rtion Policy. 135 East iFifly-secomul Street, Xew York Vity. Th'le
letter says:
litmi. ALBERT .JOH!NSON,
"lilt ndt/cc'i on lin,,n !Iqul I Ion ad Natiorvlization.
11118e (AGIVee 11111l11111y. 1laxItinytonu. 1M V.
J;t ~i:.
311 f.XiiSoN: seventy-eiggit Greek anmd Armninin refuigees from
'Tiilik4y. elsusimg to restomtsihle relatives In Anmerica, nre hehi for tlt-hportatlomt
loack I(o Turkey bcase& fime manual quota for the year Is exhaustedl.
Whalt shall lbe 1l1wite With Such, cases? Theyshill arise' every nmimtlm froma now.
until Junly.
TiiI departmentt or Labor says It huts' nn mitithor1ity to) :11ul1t 1hem t fhey pl
not1 avi. itie ('Oltgtt' gives Iit11tii5i.
Th'le ipreveleutedl. itmforseen disaster befalling (Irek and Arnitian sifljects
of Ttirkey sg e em4rgency legislation.
Sticha i,. the purport of ih&' inclosed brief, whielh Ias the bomekim. of1 so)lit-
llizntt i! organization as flt, I'eermtl ("oMine!i] of ('hatrelme.
IlimWc(imtcsday I A1 l hc:- (lie privilege of speaking with y401 til this matter.
Nery truly yours.
4 s'. Ti~allamDGNcmIA.
Co,,(cretmce OnlIfllslligiraiof Policy,
1.35 Ea'st 'fqs~.om .S'rcct, Yeto York, N. 1'.
70 ADMISSION 1OF NEAR EAST 11EFUGHES.
Nr:w YoUK, De~cmber 18. 1.1121.
Tile lion. ALBERT JOHNSON,
House of Representative, lashington, D. 0.
31Y D~EAR SIR: D~eani IAltlro) has isked tile to mi to) yeti these signatures
that have conie in since those sent to you last. The coloy of tile signatures Is
not being sent to the members of the Immigration Committee.
Walter 'l'. Stumner, Bishop of the Diocese of Oregon.
Frank Hale Touret, Bishop of the Diocese of Idaho.
Benjamin Brewster, Bshop of the Diocese of Maine.
Win. A. Guerry, Bishop of the Diocese of South Carolina.
W. L. Gravatt, Bishop of the Diocese of West Virginia.
Wmn. Mercer Gieen, Bishop Coadjutor of the D~iocese of N.ississippI.
(I. C. Hunting, Bishop of the Diocese of Nevada.
Akark Itirenbairk (Rtev.), member of the socill service vomisioi of the
diocese of Utah.
George D. Keller (1kwv.), chairman of the social service department of the
dliocese of Minnesota.
John 11. Spencer (Rev.), chairman of the sticial service coimeisslon of the
diocese of Montana.
Chiarle's Leo Abbott (11ev.), chlairtmn of the scilol series depoartmient of
thle diocese of North Dakota.
Alfred W. Nclnolls (1 e.) ltirinan of thle social Service votililaissio'n (lf
the diocese of Arizona.
Very trly yours, CRI t ODAD
Scc,.tlarii to 11cr. V. NV.Lqier'iJo.
Tihe CHIAIRMAN. 'fle next iq it letter written Mr. M. T. Knaadjian, seere-
tary of the Armenian Department of the Young MNen's Christian Association of
thle City of New York. It salys: om 2,19.
Ilion. Atrii- J.OHNSON,
Holmc of Reprcacntatimc, Wiashington, D. 0.
Dr.AR Slit: Undler the auspices of the Ariidan department of the Younig
Mfen's. Christian Assoclition an Armenian immss mleetinig Was held at tile aludi-
toriuni of tliv- Twenty-third S.tree-t branch Elf the Yeain., Men's ('Ieistiaul
Association, New York City, on November 21, 1922. anid the following re'-414u-
tiofls wer-e unanimloutsly adopted:
WVhereas the evacuation of Asia Mlitor by the Greek Army has brought ai
great calamity to the Christian population there. anid more tuh half it miillionl
Armenians an(I Greeks have been driven ouit of their homes Ii Simyrna and else-
where and whio have takent refuge Ii Greek territories Ii utterly dobstitute
c'ond~ition;l and
"Whereas the P'resident of the LlnIteil States has officially recognized the
existence or am einn-rgene- Ii the N'aur Usast olte. to Smyr'na disaster. ande
ili border to giv'e expession to the humaitarian seutitaent of file PeoIle11of thle
Un111ite States. has aippoited4 a special commilittee to irov'iie funds filr thle
relief of these Christian refugees; and
Wh'iereas the Armenians and Greeks of Asia Mflnor, now rcfugees Ii
reek territories (Eonlinues Ii their evil plighlt ande they art, unale to retuirn
to their homes, their homes being. aIlreadiy In mbosp ass 4lestroyed antl the
Turkish authorities having rinled ?Iagainist the returns of Christi-in peollile to
their former hom"a ite nd
"Whiercas the spending evacuation of ( oliiiatiplee by the Allied Powers
mItIIitile EOcceupation1 of till, city by thle Turkish rulers will he followed uzielonhIt-
o-dly by tile exodus oif the Christian people from tile cit.. tilus. alhiling another
half a mlillion r-efngees and making tile burdveii (if Aimericanz relief orgttiza-
lions still heavier than at the present ; and
Whereas anton, ImN-refugees there are thoisanils whlo Wive doE)W reiivi-S
inl flie Ulifted States mho are- tintialy Ible scud ttiiwe that" willing" 14elsssane
tlte support (if their -relatives If they ar-cd lratelt rn litit over
to the United1 State.,; andi
-Whereas thle-se refugee-S, belig ;ucosthy w('u-i ad ell 111-ren. heiir a-m~IisA41iee
itoh thet 1 tilted Mtatt's willilIn owvIs aff-ct tlt- laliol si etthiu l111t wvill iIr.-niehi.
stIl ia :Way lii'itii t he tu1sk 41f Anll
Illdttles . re-lief ormanizia
hcierc-
I iocmcsaend mak11e it p~shi.the fmunk- ;prolviltel tov the, At1i4e01i01 Ptis'i101e 141 1I
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST JIEFUGEES.
used for flipi support only of those unfortunate refugees whio are absolutely
friendless and helpless: Therefore be It
1,lBeaolred, That the United States Government be respectfully requested1 to
open, the way by appropriate congressional action at the earliest moment AAo
to modify the act to limit Immnigration of allins Into the Unilted States as to
permit ulstil next fiscal year the entrance of more than the present quota of
IKersons born In the Near East from where tile Ntricken Christians are nlow
forced to flee, it being understood that lit all eases requisite evidlenee shll~
be given as heretofore by the relatives %)fthe refugees In the United 4tsites that
they will not become public charges;
"Resolved further, That a copy of this resolution be presente.I to tile Presi-
dent of the United States, the Secr etary of Labor and the Chairmian of the
Senate and Committee on Imumigration.'
Very respectfully yours. 3.T AA-IN
'I'h ls.ll lN Thle last is flOin %Ir. 11oavld Tiriaitslsnl. sviretnr or tile
Iilirews f Anllel I. 62 WitsIto1w~~la
Ieilersst isisi fof 111401i.41 1111111 ui41:11411
th.1e1is
streett. New Yisrk ('ity. lin tile form f -I printed staltemlent. It xils:
I i 1 Pol.1*411
oi.ii0 iiCHM S .03llIUA.
OFl~5
I Jive. 62 Wvt-40tiv iminllmd asgml lhirtcxanll *Striet.
Naw YORK, Norcibcr 29, 19222.

)
DrI ONs(sSSM
V.~ The I'k'serut on tot Pl'ish Hebrews of Amterica, aill
AN:
torgaiz~atiiin IltitledN 14 years ag-go, andt whose principal ollice Is at (I'2 West
111m.ilinhlll'e ali thiirteenlth Street. lit the city of New York. it.- it litlber-
--hill Of Over 75,(KN s(Itterel sill over tlilt- Unitedl States, Of which 90 per
evliar iltciizens Of the United States.
8ic tit- passage' (if the flew hiiligraltttf laws, numttlous appeals for help)
to bring over relatives of lilemlbers of the federation, which said relatives
reseite in European countries, have reached our office.
'ruIe prcsifieult of tile federation, M.%r.Abrabsin Iosenlberg. hlas julst returnedl
frons a trip lie madec il Euirope and after hearing his report as to the sittna-
futs there, the( fuilerat loll conutded to) callita miass nlleetingA for the purpose of
petitioning the Honorable President of the United State!. and tile Mlenihers elf
t.~ongretss to) amend thme lawv to cover certain cases,
'rilest vasce5 hasve' particularly called tile attention of thme members of tile
feulersutioll and shold appeal to every hullitn heart for special consideration.
The mass15mleetinlg war held on Thursday, November 23, 1922, ait Beethloven
Mali. ill Newv York City. alllu thle fohiowlillg resolutions were adopitedl mllilli-
1
Whereas tile attenltion of tile l-'ede4-rAIoa01 of Polish 110 ews
A fV IC&hs
Ions been called' that v hlve'IClunllberof mien who have come from vaoiiiOJ
counlties leaving- their wife will children filt the country of their bir'th, Ilaviliii
-it the t illle. ile Intention ol r iitgilg their sssii wife and childirenl to tile'
1tii States shortly after their arrival lil the Vnitedl States; 11111
-Whereas. lifter tip arrivall oft the "aid Inli, tile Unitedl States 'maacte-l Imi-
gliltion itiws seltillg .1 (jllOtfl Or per'sonls to he adlmittedl acit('lig to tile number~t'
of Joel.-oli~lii'e1-lly ill tills coun~try. *1111 thaSt for' tis IVIsOim, a great liihber
f inrrieui wVomlen withi their filirvit (-sill ilot joil their 11115151111, they lIit
liuiiig siillit. to havi. tlvir ilssitOlt visiteul Joy tile cotilsils abrhl'] . n111
W~hervals this ;tate Of affal5irs Is this vase thast mlemb~ers oof onet fanlliy aire
elpara~te.1s14tu will ml lit, fill illonl~tis to conl~e: It is4
II--
Ic.edeud 1itti1 tills A4ewiersll hl shuill as5he it lllliuile Pr'esillelit 4f
1,14 ,0 810St 4' il 4 %iilil11 5 for' I,11r
I11ie s Ii II
'sil I1111('114 Il it' cli iigrst iilahws lil
sIttu way sas10' :11i11W slt 11 slt-w1ilwi .mueu. toi illt- withI thleir u-iihh cell, wiosi,
ilwl)IlIShItsI.I 'esillt'tl illiv 111111 !StilFv. to) Iter
Vilt o01W colilry l'gsl less Or
the qnota allowed for the country Ii which tiiesi women and cililillrcll reside'
aliwavs. providilig that time hmllzbslll slollhil lit. wvellshut'to take i'lre oif his
said] wife and children andi Is wviliiiir: to give tmple gnasrallty Mhil they wvill
not1 lieconie public chasrges ; nd) it is further
Rjcsol4rCf, Th,1it the foreign colislll' Ahmidlu iihlll((lintly after t iei pa~ssa;lg.'
of Suich Islliclllvo law's lie ll1titieul so tha~t they uIllay withlolit de4laiy visc' Owi'
crN0114 'vi1 rculliesteh
lossiim-ts of sm-li pos1, to 010 50o.'
ADMISSION OF NEARi EAST REFUGEES.
Now, dear Congressman, if you have a human heart will you refuse to give
your assent to a law that will reunite husband and wife, children to their
father? Will you have pity on the poor woman end children who are suffering
by being separated from their husband and father? The federation asks you
to help In this matter and Is assured that you will see tile justness of Its
tipjeal In the matter. Help giving back the wife and children to their bus.
hand and father and the federation members are thankful to you In advance
ror whatever Mhare you will have In passing the amended law.
A copy of these resolutions has been sent to the Honorable Prelddent of the
funited States.
With our best wishes to you, we reititin
Wery mepettfihly yours, BJIA OEMAGtoCPH1
DAVIUD 'IRA1TTMANN, SewcrIr.
Tfhe 11'HAIIRMAN. I l1010lW40 thtikt is till this. niitw-~. .lIt list,. and iniii Wher
matter Is sent to the chairman for use tof the cicantlitee. andis the iuieabers
should look it over carefully when they have time.
.%r. WHITE. It Is proposed that Dr. I'sther I.ovejoy. of lilt- .1iterital Wecienl's
Hlospitall AsoiailonI. he valhed its ute llrst witness nme-day. Is 3Miss ILimvejqmy
present?
Lloct.ir Lovioy. Ytms.
STATEMENT OF DR. ESTHER LOVEJOY, CHAIRMAN OF THE EXECU-
TIVE BOARD OF AX RICAN WOMEN'S HOSPITALS.
Thie CIKAIItAN. i1ur'.Oi LOW-joy. IIIei-e give ytoiir- 114ltires~. tim lilt, stemio^-
riiihiir.
IPovtor I)VEJtoY. I live tit Q17 Nlaiisiont .Avonue. Newv Yocrk (lily.
Tile CHAiIMAN. Andu yon tire t1131inim of lilt- exetviitivi' Nocnni oit Ainerietii
womkenl's H~ospitals'.,
Doctor Lovxjoy. That Is true.
The CnIAuuMAN. 1s Wlf7AMadison Avenie, New Yoik 4 ity. your loc1aiiImlnt
address?
Doctor JLovujoy. That ;s may perinatent simlive. 31iy residence Is tit flak- Saivoy
liotel lit the present timie. M1y liermiueat Pdrs
slortl~ad. Olreg. 31y per-
inatuentt hinisi l8itPortland. [lilt I reside in New York City, tin Enroje. and11
elsewhere. I travel a good deal.
Theii CAIR~MAN. lItive youI a Stlitellivill yolu esire ito llaike to tile kvoimiiiitteel.
INimdcmr LovEjoy. I wits pileselit diirim' lime eiVaiiiiaton Of 81ifly-titi. bWIeen
filie '24th atnd, 20111 it Seliteincer. andit atlityhiim lilt- cininittie itesiren ti kno~w
of mie I shall be very glad to g~v if I can. Ilmn if you .hesive tile tol nate it
stittettict, I $113111 Irocceil that wtay.
The CHA.IRuMAN. 00m11head4 III thilt wa.I.
Doctor iLiviyiy. I walir 1-it1 lit 8iiiyiia 411itim1g that tiie. .11141.of ioit1Me.
it would taike at long9 1111ie to tell te ktoililikiit -stloty. I amn lilt it'l ea lf the
.lilericaiI 1Viisezi's 1ImSpltal-4. and11WI i- a iv en Oing ixork li Asia itor
imid iFramiee midac St-rviii andij (lit 1 af1:11
r emniiti'u civing the huN1s it'( 311111
.-eairs. I .vas lit l.'aris i rote its Itiissa whien this i uoibe iii Smiyrim a 4mie upt
:111dliiciiaa'ilhtely lilimiemi lily stttteuiliiim oo iiyriim. where I arri~e inmmi -loteit-
tier 2-1.
Th'le eviter of thil city wais rtii&1. 'rhese peolpie were luelttg takenl awny
hy thle warshlis at1tile timie the tire wits oil. It steaiiec that at uew order find
ibi'i'i tithipted and1the (liffit it were aill miintaIiiliiig wlintt time world wvas pleased
to) call tleiltrutllty ' at thant icarlictil~ir ltme. Theisie mtifirttmtce Ileilie galhii
ered together lwI'ot 31 41ity. It NS iliiv'I11 iiiossible foer tie tip s~iy liut- nuanlier
111.11gat 1s-red there. ]ilt thety wee it'ttt is titli as icl emicld be
1i1it1ig.i
Iim5ie tigt'ter. I have before fill,-. givth lit tirgies 2--t.O1fll :,z ati estimate;
,lilit I ha3ve feittiild Ill io n ft'ttitt with i ithicizi 15 li tile' St 14 imiile S)IIh 1.4 lilt
(aitic' shiotild Is- litim it 21 0.A)O. i diI Ili111411:iilel4
Twine lititu1444c . 11L4164- 104-4011 were
Izikemi :lwuy :1i reflagees.
Notne tof (131 inen *hiue Imipy lieeti-i 13101 years oftit'
15 ind ere
iec 'l. there-
Airme not dimmimht (lucre: %eri' 340.114I er 3140)I(K)mi~cll
ioersolit ii11114011i Ildk 4dimly.
111111_
3111d1they 113141Ice'ii siltilsg there' ill ltis' coililhisteies for lilit -t whilt- -5311C
.11)161[t !kehmcutcm' I.. AI Ien- th I m 114)t 11:1hda 1 ch'Lie )vem't m-dilllfmtailly,
fil' It Iced.
ADMISSION OF NEARI EAST HIEVL'OES. 73
I arrivelj there oil Septembler 24, tile) leaaa':cii that they iLadebeena houlding their
'places for quite at while. Nobcody ntor lit) jiua;nge eain fell what tit- terrible
condition wits. One taust have wittnested it w;;ith lls own eyes to appilreciate
thle mnititudee aind depth of the suffering. Then. toup, aimmy people tare Ini-
t'tiictt1lp of uaatelersta11inag the situation when they -ot It with their own eyes.
beli11ase they tire bilaid1ed by tile tragedly of It ;all. This quay- was wide. and
these unfortunates squtattel its closely tas they could. anda he~l their prices
beemaisp It was piresumaably the ili('Q oif greatest safety.
At night It was possible for the warships lia the harbor to throw oni this
group their searchilights wheni the women sereaaaaci for protection, as they id
night after night. That scene wits litdeserihalie. Ona (-ould constuaitly hear*
the sereais. tind) aaaois andl shrieks of these poor womnti nd] girls moving illt
tint] down that quaty. Certainly thact i, thep most terrible thing I every heardc
of or ever expect to heair of. There was" 10 retreat from thot position. It
they had triedl to go back to flie rihs of the c'ity they probably would have
loqt their lives.
The qUaty at 0-ct lieamme a roevkh-ic sewer. and lit least III- ev'acuaatio tw trted
on 8epteaaber 24, flip very dIlly I got there.
There wer'e P!ight reiare dllis oli I.ehclitalmcr 21. 4ti -Septemeber 25 ocie %-illj
,canto in and Itunele mid wetit awvy. Oil Seitemlbe.- 210.ait -light. 19) ships.. (-litte
lin fair refugees(. ail froma that tilu.' at Mi-argt Otf shijsI'aCe eVer'y cly
1111111114-1
until the Cilv of thle w~eek. It a11.1y he Said4thuat thalt Week with iN- knei 'Is all
evaciuationa week ii Smiyrna.
D)octora Lovv-iev. Tihae ships were' largely (Ibeek ships. tit I tink there'
%weaea fewv BItiis ships. That inf441111na0t41u, ('011d Iii' ", ttei fronge Air..eaiir
tlip 111111Wvhoehade beena set liat top -,Ot siip. Ti'iev :il-Wccgot celope 'atcit fromu
the( Greek government, as- I miader-tand it. Oal this joint1. thcwiah. I itata speak-
Ing front haearsny. ]it about other thuia I mpeak- f rom ls'a'snah kiia'cwieege.
Mr. Jenin~igs. after laehig out fotr qu1ite at 101-- tiutu'- - Id tiilt kem~lw ihic. 4hack'
N.e le'ft---waas hcrcil11al fh ~li
S el' 2011 ha if Seritithe r. aic' li tui~ liiia: hie'in
to come Ini onl Septeamber 24.
Oil Septembaler 25 tflip' iceople wvere Ill great desiai- laettiuse' itily fille Sill
cometiini. 'rihey- did tai know tine citae'rs Wt't' tilo 11w '400ul1.
he Tuirkisha nirplauacs hiadi gone over these place's amid eli' )pjij'l elini ta
lcrox-amatioa snyiitg thaat aill iveri' ti lit- *lt'corte flit Sit-ptiiii.'i 30 tio ft- Ili-
terna-. re.-arrdless of age or' sex. wccie'n ittu elldreii aw- well its aien. All fill,'
men iietivet'i 15 and -A)wvere delpotted tic the itlerioa'. imuywaay. ;%ilil thiey -Al
looke upona oleliortuatloti to tlie Iitera'ot- as ifiluii less titi a sthtemvce cit
death. It is lit fMet worse' titan 4clettl. bcc;is'it is. lauei'el lhy slaave'ry cc1iite
loart of thle ment antd evena woarst- Oil flie parit cir tihe .grIls tutuf wcmie'n. Fiially
tdeath eils all.
Ol Suepctaiember 261thei 19t -Aits lbe'rai a tooe'vaeua.ti' file 11c4'c1jc1t elf Iw iiuy. Thai'
sight wns iaeeitcbhe. Tie ga'etat ass ei' muise'riimv' Iclov iti ae'clvo
em deia
towairdli uetty ;lil lii lollu-, raillrocad Icier Iii crelc,'. ti tut't aili cadlt-ctheiisvititwe
Shihics.1'rne'rti'atlly llt of thiei% litill their limiek tillIic it ti114-11-
o's1icuac'
tat taltitlea. Manyt3 of thiema carried ItheirAM sick tatl 4 tilj iltaillis mlvilae'r l~c
Awiil iefii' ci icecs.'- 1)t'4ci0le' hle lhvechIl ii.Iuct 0lIv ria. 11i.11tv Years wt'c tit'ii
ffaiilile's haul lIe ila that1 uity Siauce Sail!at.11 Witti na'iicisitcila y ill 111.11
e'otiilry, low-,g bef'tore tipe e'(ciuiit' of the it i'i'nn111 Asl isitil (ill c.ci1iiiiily.
Ataicv (if 0lcist' l~ille lviii1 jil'e'ti wve'aailiy. ccNI-ce-ch lim'hi ccxiijiiaies. -.11aciwvere
MI-
Wcoill(- cif ule'e staitiller Ill tile' 'tI)iiiiiiiuiity. Siciii' ofi flie 11lates woee. lier-
ally milc'ikilii. inlte's: hlt .1ll I1:11iIo lei'-heN.A. The llaii'e that W,1'4 talke'i 1c'
thel Ameaaeana cimil wxa, :al.i1a'' i litialc ciael fiiiiii'1h'c wvithi a'ials. .I'
efe~t-
'Tleim c111aW ti'll ' i0gic1tit41saii"lc'cl taiiir: lile' 1111.1y. lc:1viiig- ill minde. ilcitahuite'ss.
l:aiI 1icc. w4411111 tio- 'h-c161t1'-4 ccl eitccm 30i. 'i'i'ey htnIl wily cccii flaiys icc _vt
IaIWmI".,
ai'lik- lccicz jcic'i ex'lecided 'ittce'k. w er. lic 11cc'wuActc'a ls at
%ivi'
fo 1l11-t"4c'ci'ac'ec :ccgcm ait
"'4i1.1l i sjcii''licliat
e fill- s's/c fir amPS141 c'c' t' dlt
OfaatIea
Oity hlv0'k Il' a11(
O cc'' water wuaus:' ati' (of' ilcaici a1iiiaii mtill iccia'ttulii'
the 11iclie's ici' aim'i. jtll-'i'c-ult oil' kililaZ cci li iglaIuh cii' alit' fir'e. uvitii 14.111t)
tilt:11.'1loce'tije's ofi 4jc0:1ci lc'cchcle' 1j1104-11l 1ile ft'iiii tilic' tic U1110'. Thie
gi'i:c
Ic-til 1 -ti"rcc c cvi lilt- fine. ainile lcei i't feaaccs. Tihee ~'olihi Ici' cue
fei.c. I Alage n-y. 2(m) ci' :i fc-- t'i'ccic fhoi c-e10cot fle (imy. 11ia111114ia alsiiaice-a
f4e11-i'a a 11ii' (.111 ccl' 1i14. ri'ac .14 14i'c .rc A .%till'
ccj l fi l ilie filert h t'ec i'e'tuc' 1i;1ci
Fief-a iiae \%jithim lciccu'. 'i-c, (eac-~ wcre sec ccua'4'iic'Icd ltat .-x'e'ryhmoly
W01Iiiiic' 4110i'_'441 Ill '.:0 611%-:a tlcal'cccazli :c fi%-4'
!wc teachP ti":
:1110c'- l -c'uhaJ -t cictilc's
ADMISSION' OF' NEAR KAST REVUGE.F.A.
line of Turkish soldiers for hliW4tli. The iKIIlt Was' that tile '1'rki-4la aau-
thorities did not want finy an to get away anid this plain nffordedi ain oppor-
tauity to search and rob the women. TFle surging crowd would crush against
the fence with terrible results, especially to tile Younag, the ol1d, and the( weak.
This iR true. I amn sure that the his-tory of Cihristian mnaratyrdoma dio's ntac
record anything thaat exceeds the suffering of these people of I.Miaayria. It wits a
matrtyrdona of 280,000 people, who were refugees, lin addition to those who were
taken to the Interior.
They came ilawit to tlis first fence, ainul I stood there b)etween tithe tirsi two
fences for' six hours on Tuesdaoy, Septembaer 1-0. aml watc'hed tlhat great vrowdf.
Thley catte down against that fencee. aien, wouaa'u, the old mA the youn-P, with
-resit force and ditmsta'oti results. Truly the .seie (clt nt IPe ule-Strihlt'li. lot'.
"alilse It was toot terrible. They voild not get through. 'Many wvere pulsheltil t
te water.
Not fir fromaa this mulass of dleal nitniaNh aind biesut. of htuan beings, which
wain washing to andiafro. there were these' uiifortunaate womn wiho, hadubeen
thrust Iinto the water. Ti( water Imptitaied tit liv simliow at tlhat ilie. Thv
atanig I stoodl there ulit- tidle wit- sto low%thait Itersoaas iitfi t- winter could stiail
u11.tile Witer eouthliag about tot their waists, and ft- oe w0ere11 W it oingi. tooi114-1i
elildreat. way~hao
had14barouight bandi41es front halie 11:1l tto abanldon thieim.
Then came the big rush toward tis glt('. I supliio I imighat its well tell You
gentlenten. most (of whnoma.or. hlenhis aill or whom, tare inaurried. ft, worst thing
volilliuL within illy ML. On aiccount of the liorrors of that 4city, with a
population of :100.00M). bereft' of their haomaes and burned out, naturally O;ere
wt-re among those people- al large atunher oif exp~ectant mothers. You aill
know whiat would happen lin these cases. Tihere were imny preaature a-
ternity cases oat account (of til, crushing aunl rushing. I wals nssigneal to
watch especially for thepse nmater-iulty eawes. atnda a% I 5104)41 there for six hours
ne roor woman fin thle agony of her labor was thrust Iltrouigiltis gate Just
is her baby camie Into the world. I give fliap details of til, (one( terrible ease
because It is thle worst filing I Ilive ever be'ard lir or sevia lit nmy life. Biut
therec were hundreds (of vases occurring tit that time.
A Turkish soladier would staidi on either side of tfi litt'4 (ft wooIliCei. 111ll If
they saw at prosperous looking woman they wouhd reach out. seize her. pull
haer asIde, examine her-g.oing over her bodly and. lifthig upt her skirls. sand
looking fatio her stockhings to see whether she hadl any mnvay they vitul take.
Whetaotoher wommn would pass aaiaa they would seli-~ anl( search her.
I nillauow lellitag what I saw with nlly own] eye., 11nal 1 wojuuld tiuk't loath tit wvlaat
I say.
Tilen, thle mein wolmld comuie througli. M)ae Tuirkishi soldici' would mllze a mian
iandl whispe~r to him. Thent the- man would paut his hatiul into his Ihtlf'et.
give the Turk somer uainey, and14tile na1tan wvas passed fill. Thena. tat a1ihUstiaave
of about 40 feet another solier would mehie, the saunar 111.1n:1114the 1111n woldi
lie vonapelled to buy him (off. Thias process would voaittite it-,slongp masthe, 11hno
mna lanaIny
d amocney. and then lie would suffer tiv soume rate itas the ra~iiialer
oif tle meni. Thi( mana would tha.aly fhid Ilainselt' iaa file prison groups. I saw
oaaltoatai at the flrst gaate clt is owai tiarat tas:i p~rotest twamhviat lu'iag taiken
thlrougha.
IMirtiier oni dlown' tfliilc I saw a yoilng. man wit aurmas hoid behind. They
tiulst havo especially itauntel I11ia1, so Il(h-ou
hain fill). lito siaw tit(%Possibihlity
of suicide anad made oae jimiaaa 'averhar Hit thul doire lhimtself.
Tro 4Ieserfle these hoibled awall reolting sevtia's is beyondai tin. iwier ort
laulagluage.
~Aong eha' twvo gials with i t ol1d womimn. -swemlinly t heir mouathmer. This
loor 011 womianl tiahy fell hatit fint or li s(title way. I do1 nt know what
thep trouble wiias. The( two girls knaell besiade haer. as If lit prnaye'r. aHIM kis~zeil
her hand and14smiootherd ]her brow. Trhey wea'e praying anlui istu"Iwng care
with tle allui feSt litia I l of teidertless%befitting halaglita'rs. No. one1 thimiulit
they would rall hier overboard. Biat they actually 41141 roll her overbardl Into
thep water nuda ,:!ai' wnqa pvoau. Mida yoaaw:. miiAaaaho ebcilareat w(ere lialslned
oftf thar- wharf tit lie. loist. Thlitm' poor11utfartaanaales hash bepen thert' from the
13th to the 20thi of 'Septembher. Ana l ilea 27t11. tiar 29th1 . and tht 2h0th of
September It was. the qaie.
Mir. VAI.. Hfow wais the weatherr,
Doctor Lovi-roy. Very hot.
Mr. VAuaE. How were they fed?
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES,
Iloctor LovEJoy. T1ho, Turkish childrent would oceile along andi sell them
things. The Turkish part of the city wam not destroyed. Many of these
refugees on the wharf had money, itid alsov the disaster relief committee, iniule
up of members of different relief organizations ti utulutess people of Smtyrna.
got together anduhad bread flaked nd distributed aniong them. Some of the
Jewish people were still doing business. The Jews were not sent away. They
were spared. The Jews, too. would come along an.1 sell thing-; to thle refugees.
The feeding- waas a terrible thing, beeaiaie It frequently started great rushitip
and a great criuh. li the agony of starvation the people could niot restrilli
themselves. And tOen, too. when tile ships eaie in they were not provlseuteui
They were without food. Thlt refugees were carried ever to Jin Island an.
there they were, dumped. You can not comprehend the thing.
This was thle moost terrible thing on the quay. The ftailies of five or six
members hail beent together onl the qluay. Or It may have beent iltan and wife.
mother and son. b)ttlers ad sisters. At oilt' of tip.-At gates it rohiler would
seize the man. while- iis wife would ehitg to lhiai and beg thle 'CAid4ler to) l0
him go with her. The baby would hanig to its mother iis ati attempt was mlade
to separate then lit driving the wonmen to the shirts. Thte soldiers were it-
tinuahlly saying to thent. " (let out ; he .-One." Alith the soldiers would heat
the women and mna with. a haunch of straps or with the butt,; of their gtns.
111114Invtatlinet'I ft. sodiers wouttinvairiably sehltritte families. Ini many
cases aittmother would cling to her son of 15 ats she was drivent away. hut the
soldllers held all men between 15 and 50.
The Turks have it prayer t'tancernlttg "Infidels " wih says, " andi mtay their-
wives be widows and their cildoiren orphatus." Tlhat prayer wnas answered fitt
that dock, because tlip Turks took thot feathers atnd tht'rchy 1titide widows atatti
orphans.
And now the women and ehilldrett are onl file Islatals f 4reeve. Mattiy f
them, I have no doubt. have died of pestileatee and starvatoat. and iph itten
have been seat away to tlie interior to death.
Mr. VAipn. Are these rc u-tgecs fetd on these Islantil?
Doctor Lovryoy. There Is not food) enoug-h to give them.
Mr. VAILE. By whom are they fed?
Doctor Lovnyor. By the Near East and the Itedl vxrss. Anti the ei'.'t'h
Government helps. I amn not well Informed on that phase of thle inatter. bae-
caulse I have not been there..
I came home front S.ryrnat. antI T ant telling you whlat I mtyself know. liosi.
tively, but I am getting reports from the head of our service there. She Is
itr-jking after the slek, the starving. tite tllstressed. antlte utursiuig. Thero
are about 1.000,000 of them. besides the people from Thracee. There i.. this
difference, though: those from Thtrace have their 11te11 with them11.
The CHArIRAN. What do you understand Anatolia toomeiO?
Doctor Litva.oy. It Is oni hirdeinite termn. T atletal thl- iterinsi it .'tw'en tlt-i
Blacek Sea and the Mediterranean.
The CJI.TIRMAN. 'Name tht couintries ieldlid i s youa use the word.
Iorwtor imryv.J. Ast tir and Tturkey it,.sit
The CHAIRIMAN. It ittehtite thlt- countries beyondo?
Doctor Lovriowa. No: thot Is JIot what 1 c'ttl-iler It Ba)lie. It Is jut Ii.-It
%trip of enountry liteeni f lie 'Meoil,'rtniiueautild tlif- li~ak-1 Sea. I h~ave 1ttit
a specific tern i inund.
'.%r. Vmix~a. D~o ire uuder-4and !hnt :all time IN4 pie- who were a10tu3lly takenl
away %verv~wonii or c-hhtret oir boys li'ss th-ta 15 or muent more that 50?
Doctor ILovr~rov. Yes. There inay have heeti smIutte few hoeweeti 15 311tmi 50
who got away, itt riot tty. 'kTe mten wtild mnake' every et'irt to get .iway.
ovent by switinug finthlp ight. The ment %wold.httttl fbverhioard anmd attempt
moSwill) to I ltlis 11'. wlili wnis thep euily slip that would receive thetal.
The slitp!; of otlier ititflotts wcmuhd refuse tltetit Itsyltttt ind311etapithe'm Itaek.
One Itight T saw Iwo) atteit swituanimugw. Refugees were lppeutg htaalt'd on1ships
that night andi the ships lin the htarbor threw their se4arcilhits over' the itlvr.
Ouit it tlie watter. lin the path of at sea rch Ighlt, we Could '-we tiaese two n11Ie
s4winuting. The Turks discovered titent anit stationed two scltiers to shoot
theta. pFhtso siltliers sto ott tlip elge fo thle Whtarf .11tushot .1ta4islot. qttll
the littl1ItS wituild -kip 1110o1a tite wtiner. The butllets: would rivt'ohtet and gm
over tite heads of the( swhrtiners.
i'lm~'
r'ft~''.if I lwty ivlit N I, a ttilig
lltymt hial Ill '.4hceit ott thel
k. --. 'Flwy carriml prlvta'uly *'veI3 llii oni their Nicks. whereas mrtir fof
76 AIiM ISSMN (IF NlHAII l.:AS.T lREFUCHS.
then 1104 beeni Iaccustomed'4 to coitafilts. 11ut tile Sittstlilt g11WtS tile Selt
eitiotais (of moifthers fiotti1 thelir ciaiidrvii. '[le wvomen were driven ouilto these-
ships without their children. One shipi would take the uiotlaers;:1 iti I tile
contusion wine of the children would lie eiiiburked on anuither shipi.
When these Turkish sohlilers were slhootinag at the two swimtnng Eaten. the
American boys got nervous, utad It looked as though Ilieve would be troiuble.
The American boys were helping to get the refugees. wouttet antd children. on
the ship. British boys wuere hling oil thle other endai 4of tilt dotk. Wheta
these Turkish soldiers were shooting, It looked it, though tout- Ioys.a aItight
Interfere. The Amecrican officers finally went i-ver and talked to these twa
Turkish soldiers ad slopjped tem,. utid tilt Autoriii heiit finally picked thoseP
inen up. I tlugU~ the United States was somaewhait ;ivclvetd wheim It phltkeol
those ineui up. These ineii could not lbe turned over tit tle. shipls .11141they
could not give them over to tile Turks. TheIy timok bleiat ;asluare. :1tac1 tlt(.
Tunrks stanin lig bky selAd ti eno.
'The CHuAIRMAN. You Sany yOII 1110119ht tile lI'led Stut's was .. 0iiibie-
comte Involved?
eiLovJAl4.
Doto 1 111$11401kilowv whiat Olao ositil III* cth iii. hnte-i iialtte ItI.-
wthetn they picked] those maentilut. %Vlmt -.11ouh14they l11ir (14,1ae withI thaemaa1
T'la- (IIt.RAIAN. Thie.V Could iatre taikoai caire of uhaew~. I isieuemat toa ask you
about thle United States boct $IuIm involved. hiod you()Isee ainy signal 1th1t tile
1,113W iStates wp!s ihlout to bevoti Inivolvedl?
Doctor I.OVirioy. I lilt 11int IlIIfit eiiiitloiaI lawyer flhtt I eli m'cit kaiocw thiout
[itho filligs.
M.r. V jicaiiu*
1ult%. 11i1mi1 o elss thian .541 years Od asre there awtiimIt these
r.fuigees?'
D octeor l.OvtE.Joy. You wrould) have to -e-t a Venlsus per-son to [iass oil that.
bitause tle irugees 111e) large faamellies. If you iiavo. samy, 'MO,000 refugees,
2IS(J,0K0 were taken nway ou those sldips. ThiN Is tile tigure given here lit the
MIate D eparatmetnt. Now whcat wold~e lbe ihv II'ci-4I1tiil tiW 11101 hetuveemi 15
1111454)?
Mr. Vmii.t:. I understand thaat itil inta betwevin 15 aeild 50 were stopped.
V oteior Lo4)IEmcl. Yes; and4 2ROOK)i4 were there bei-des that. A census expert
ciouldl probably tell us.
Mr. VAHi.- Thost 280,000 were at naJerity?
hDoct r Lovi;.oy. Yes. naatrailly it majority; lont ivic you take boys of 15
you art- getting Into the child's class.
Mr. Veanmr. Those who were tact stopped-4 anld got through dild so ;urely by
aceidetit.
h)4,euor Lovryioy. Yes, sir.
Mr1.VAuLM. WhIltt became of thein?
hDoetor Lovrjoy. They went with thet refugees; but there were very few of
thlem.
Mr. Vtu.What bcuame of those wrho were stopped?
Doctor Iiws~uov. They were senat to the Interior. I do not knowv what be-
camec of them. Nobody knows what hecoine of them. I saw some of then
taken away on a boat under guard, antd they took then away by water. This
is ihast they teil wec about Its: riieyv say they take then over tile hill.
tan I] you never see then afterwards.
Mr. VAILE. What I ami getting tit Is this: Is this true, that the prollei of
these refugees Is largely a problem of wvomen and children?
Doctor Lovrjoy. Yes, sir; largely. Doctor Elliot sends iiiany letters froll
thiat country telling about her work ani-ul.ii the w~ll altIe children who oire
left without breadwinners to help them.
Mr.n cr. iwouhl hike to as~k yoto i hviltc'r yciit vskI'ttl sniy .11~siilO '4117401,14W
lo abtlout 11411%
t11 Ihifili) ii4.r54lti5 list liht-'i I it~s ill tIaie I II-41e'. it ir ie;~t
Doctor ILovu~loy. it ivolf lot. Iii1lowuSsilil te'atst 14 la. btl'. eracr11.0 lil't.
was gil least 2 imile., hoIgeI, weei thlt- titnt gaate .itich 1tht. se'e.'tteh fir' IIce wh:i(.
aund alli I saw was what I coulud -we Wlhhii aMY vsisi N 1 at141e e1ljeaa'e
l14.stit'otieol. After the day qit whil-i 1 slioek- til' ti- sair.rea'i te1t I"
;Ilg-1taslie'el
iek after the mcatertuily talses fil thet i% 11te I~a wli t'd. ilt il uuld the it,ce. leiu-:
ul) uvoiwu' ini labor.' W e pout tleuta 4)ta a-atrotciers .1141iel it-illhti l 11111.4 1- .
.M'glity lit tle could lie done fir I lucit. evili when that MCI : ew .
formed.
The CHtAIRMAN. WVh101u dill you *11111 e
tti 10- e Utllt.l ISAt e's,
hieeI .m)r.?iav. I irtmtrie tthe1 1,11-11 ailed Sattes c 4111 cl. 'lot
'The comx.%lm1. Whmen you arrived lit tilt Unitedi Stites oin (11tmiher 20, dild %-oi
v sit the State D~epartmient?
I htcto Livijo. I saw the Stie D~elta iint three or (our ditypt ago.
Thie ('n.-um.1-%. Did4 you dhikaouim with lte State Dep'artnment time ease of ti-se
fort cular refugees [it Oreecelt
iDoctor LovrJOY. I mierely totld 51r. Pl'ipsi of thet, Wtite Depamrtmmenit amnd till.
tther genttlemantu w.th him just wbint itmpiened onl that ltoiig raelimimi lier lit
Smmyrzn. I did not ask anything nbout tis other business.
Mr. Vmlix. WVhere are these refugees?
Ikkior Io.i.ov. Al) through tilts !stand-%of Greece. Oreeve tikes tilt Arile-
Owl.-m pool. liiHte other nittiomis dlo not want to ftke people Ii
Time (m.mmt~.They liave troubles enough of their own.
Ditilomr il v is. 4ir; surely till titism mimntrie-z have' trwiltile enou.-4g (if
their own.
Mr. VAILE. What efforts have bEe-n made by these refugees to go tin. other i'4itt.
tries tiur the United States?
Doctor LovEJOY. I (d0 not know anything about that. The only part I have
been engaged In Is the matter of relief. I do not know anything about tis
101i, except I harie read it. It oems at decent thing for the pietple hetre to tiki'
(tire of them over there. We bave to take core, of thiien In a waty atnyhow wimeim1
they are over there.
'Te CAIAN%' 1111V-4 yolt 1Xivel any thought to time numialer flit inity lot-
btroughat fintthe United States?
Doctor Lovr~iov. I have not any Idea, but lin glancing over tilis bili, It seems
that onily those whlo have relatives here are affected.
The&C~~IM N Wuti thamt relitei IN-i silifalimium
t'etttgei' mttimi1 w.,i'g tiii Ill fli-' stalrved'
1?itotor iLorJOv. If I iimlipemeoi to)1 lov mm
tw dieatiit wvoa'il rel '"ye it tremibtiiimly fir milt-.
'lw ('tI.11143.1.N. Eol If i ydlu welre ri'ilevell. u-41iii41 Y11im(l- ipm
h free inl
ii m nd rmii' tilemitiir meiigevs?
i etetcar L.ovEyoy. 1 itoite ilmi. If I -.tli la 'itristmn.
'll110 'Iis miiijittAls tooa14i111itmm h'ev-ai liucre i'.iiiiiuili
T('hA lo3tAN lit(dlii)-
immimismati1 to I tose 1mw exisi11. lind mimi I t I k-ely to) be refulj.!ees wvitiinliii
(10ays.
This loill Is for liaiabuha refugees wheti wmmre driven froini Tiurkish terriory
since1. D ecemblier 1. 1W21. and tat-s ilt kamiwivige (if mefugeem('In till pars iof
Europe from other coiintm'its.
Doctor L~oIJY. There never htas been tmimytimin Ike tis hllng
'file CHAIRMANx. Are their needs nitre extrente tiat Iliose ii'oilier refugees?
Ifimator hlovn-iov. Th'iey ole immure exiritl. friomt ilt- angle. liithat tieir mieni
we-re taken fram titjm. Tiose frail) ItlisSiti hritilit their toittit.
'1r. Wui iTE. YoIli ute ivcai tills isiii muthmtiaeshiiia very tilomtiighiiy thaut Iil
thlis iiammni1ry we lhave .1i1ltumiimgratlhim iuaiiivy wit ei! tarmitmius li jiotett lush I-
miiiiiit or aq. ritlititmy. amii It Is fraiisi ilit Ii iirla'se iiii fit i~stul, the
voattinmh: ort inditstrial sitittitrn. rIhterefon- tlie hilt Is itaisci uplon time liripo.
5Itill that we* Phionil udtiit. uniderm te limitmitefs wili pit hamve rei Intot
IIIe.til. Ililse- Milt wep Calliith1
i w.ll1111I atistlilliltig,4111rsitimitfl here unimiuly.
" Ithomitl iml inny Way hmm1zmm ralitg Ilme Ilmi'itstrml sitlmit in.
oiiii.eitiui.ar
'I'hmeaetfimre dioes It nail :revnma11i.mt I S .lii 114-1mafitltty. Whe01m WC fil It %0;hi
"alit mmi 'aii
411ii1tilxtm
11atti' 111 1ilicy. too snvia wiiat w. rmi miler 11i41ss.litili.
latillils fof 1i1ts.i1101tim'iteilli?
i14,41mii . mr. It Is hi4 ntihiii ait .miii too 1i1it11.it1lty.
iMr. \V]Ilii I. 'i'mmtt Is 11t. lainriiase (of til, bill. Real m-rtl~ i imiken i tt
52'Ptfi11 tim'ilt-i .imlei*eati Asitmitimaris eaur lienoih-. iniltaer!-.aimtl itiloliiate It:
mi1i1Mooree aire inI i I)I liii It al imaii. 'aiit iialm'tsitimil. imiai'i si rh,'i. iniiire 4-x-
t1b.
i'l.l sinai I. i 1itt1li
1114m1a* tilase existilug liith itlrisrtt ii.. Wae Ihimk It is ii
111m1t1ti1.1 im i4, ifr wt.~iv witmi we u i i 'it t hitslie%muisht i me-sin_ mt 'iirgaey -
ill 1Itithil i litasif 114)t illkmali history. l)Ii X.4111
Sam11i14ii.1-4t1tt41 Ii*.
liath 'mlii .lo. Y'es 111mit1-It)w-
1114 I tillfairIt. I was oiskeol mmrlilestfl re-
.11.it'ng;.riile Naiw. It- 1 said l hifire. I ;tilt mot li tittertiatitmil lawyer.
bill 1 aim. knm'. timit Im Nimiitavdii 11mmi Ivrtln. where w.e wiirkem. wie got two
itim-immim loiels.;ls mlii wqtrkeal) ns 11ii-o-. mtimdl we firamlilit ti14-t1i Iii M114U'nited
atiti's.
~iMr. W.ill-mtr. Youii w411til4l 1111110c It a luiwstutiutirmil thing. ititemmi. fair ii,; to
.Q:l (t nl'smml' bilitisi'X4 4i11i 'miii m m~mi
t o( lmit-. i0ui0111.\\.A m'lta0miha
mt limit Smavi
alliy.
78 ADLISION OF KEAII C'A.T HFIUEGE$.
TiP CHAIRMAN. You would ussunie, also, that. the United States should not
Isthk and choose between refugees of a particular nation.
I Joetor [0vvwoy. I can not say as to that.
Mr. VAILI.. It is the same principle between the Greeks and the Armenian@
who are victims of the Smyrna disaster. The same principle that applies to
all of then applies to any of them.
Doctor Lo%*wo,. Yes, sir. Also, this Is true: In this one group of case as
I understand it. the relatives of those people stand here ready to support them.
Mr. V, LA . I was going to ask you one other question. Have you considered
whether it would be pruecal to relieve these refugees In any way other than
Irlnging then to the UnIted States?
Doctor LovEjoy. There are over a million of thea, and the only way they
are relieved is by going up and down the line begging for nickels to relieve
them. and it is rather an uncertain thing in every way.
The CHAIRSA.. There are over a million of them, you say?
Doctor Lovyjo. Throughout the whole country. Our information Is that
there are between 1,000,000 and 1,200,000.
The CHAIRMAN. Witnesses have endeavored to reduce the number likely to
come to the United States to a minimum, and they have got It down to 12.000.
I received a letter to-day placing the number between 50,000 and 100,000.
Are you able to classify these million refugees by races?
Doctor I)wv-1JY. No, sir; I can not. but Armenlins and Greeks are largely in
the majority. However. thereare others. There are some other Christian
refugees that would have to go out.
Mr. Box. In your judgment. whih race. the (rvek or the Arnelimn. pre-
dominates?
Doctor Lovjay. You see how uila.ssille it is to answer that quiesiol.
I stood on the dock, and they maUse. ime two or'threat ait i thae. I caim not tell.
I imagine they were people whose ancestors itmal beeni there foir tges and ages.
site St. Paul was a nmdi4loaary and before the adhient of the Turk. I ahl not -m
very active churchwonian, but inthe secomid thmaatetr of Ptevlathins there is :i
ln,.samge peculiarly adaptable to this sitmathons.
Mr. WHITM. Youl sald ili nutim\er to :miIlet e'ollay tIl
thelh'im4-ammm limit lie ialtis
of Europe have trolhl(s of their owim.
r)octor Lovu xoy. Yes., sir.
Mr. WHIMu. Of course. I presume you had in wind that the readjustmuents
from war conditions to peace conditions have pnreeiled very slowly over there.
Doctor Lovrwov. Yes: nmd the possibility of future wars. The Turkish gen-
eral is one greit genius that ctine out of the World War. tand it is only natural
for the Tuiks to follow him. I lave itmimd the fict that, say. Serbia, or some
other comtry in the Balkams. imay have to eet tt Turks. This Turkish mill-
tary leader is only 41 years of age. with Iis life before hia. and lie is a genius.
The ( HmfAIRMAN. You have lived in the United States, have been a student, and
have bven abroad sind seen the peoples of the world. Do you believe immi-
grition to the Unitedl States should be restrmcted?
Doctor Lovnsoy. Yes, sir.
Th CIAIRMAN. The committee Is. obliged to you for your statement, Doctor
Lovejoy.
Mr. WHiT. It has been suggested that we hear Mr. Charles Vernon Vickrey.
I do not know how long it will tke lim to testify. Is he present?
Mr. VxcKREY. Yes. sir.
Mr. ELLSwoRTH HUNTINTON. My name Is Ellsworth Huntington: I am a
geographer of Yale University; and I want to speak about the Armenian bill.
Can you put me on the program to be heard at the proper time?
The OHbAimLA. I suppose we can hear you right now.
STATEMENT OF 3M. ELLSWORTH HNT=INGTON, GEOGEAPHER,
YALE UNIVEESZTY, NEW HAVEN, CONN.
Mr. HUNTINOTON. I am here because I am much interested in this bill. I
4ave bad a great deal of experience as a traveler and geographer in different
parts of Turkey. •
This bill was sent to me with a letter asking that I endorse and write a letter
about it. When I first read the bill the humanitarian aspect appealed to me
very much, but I said, before I had read it, when I was first glancing at it.
that it Is one of those nany things concerning which we are working up our
"mpathles, but scientifically it 1e not sound. I thought at first I would have
to disappoint the friends who had sent me the bill asking for its Indorsement.
However, I read It over carefully and I began to think about It.
If you are willing, I would like to tell you what my work is, so that you
may twe what my reaction to the bill is. I am a geographer by profession.
and I have written various books along that line. I have written concerning
Asia, Palestine--civiliatlon and climate. In other words, my work has been
very largely a study of tile effect of environment oin human character, on human
activities, on human modes of living, and all these sor.s of things. And, of
Q .. 1 have studied a great deal the effects of social life, and one could not
I.e.
it. i geographer without being a sociologist. So, primarily, my tendency Is tip
empltasize the effect of an environment, whether a physical environment or at
social environment, oit mankind.
tn the other iand, as I have studied, I have felt that toy Ideas ns to the
effect of tnviromuent needed to be corrected and rounded out by a study of
all Pliases of the subject. Therefore. I have devoted myself to the study of
liertlity. I amil primarily t student of environment and, although my books
have be.n mostly on etivlronnient, nevertheless I have come to feel that the
very first thing to be answered lit any important question Is, What is tho
heredity of the lople who are going to do tany given work? Are they the material
tlt is going to be good? For that reason I am a strong believer in the restrlc-
tii of imntingration. Soi of my friends think I go too foar in that, and that
I ain not humiane enough in this question of how rigidly this bill should be
til nistered. I have stood strongly for the strict enforceiLent of immigration
liaws. Til- first thing for its to til Is to get In here people who have the type
of chiratcter that is going to elevate our people. I thought this bill over along
that line. lit considering this bill the thing for us to do Is to put away our
feeiijgs oil present atll to Judge Whit the future effect will be to our country.
When I did that 1 wats led to a study of the character of the Armenian people.
I halve silent four years of my life itt Turkey and four other years In dif-
ferent parts of Asia. The Armenians are to a peculiar degree a people who
have been subjected to a very strong process of natural selection, and that Is
wlat produces the character of a people-the fundamentals of that people. The
Armenian people have been through u great number of persecutiotis.
Mr. VAILV. Would you call that process a natural or untmtural selection?
Mr. HUNTIN00o1. Unnatural.
Mr. VAiLu. Is it not the reverse of a natural selection? Ate not the most
desirable ones the otes who are likely to be killed off?
Mr. HUNTNOTOx. That might seem to be the case.
MAir.VAiLE. Are not the younger and stronger men. who are to le carried
awity itto slavery, ad tile young girls and women who are forced into the
hareims, the more desirable?
Mr. HUNTINGTON. To answer that question io Just why I came here. Doctor
Lambiert, who wts the physician of the Red Cross lit charge of the lepers, exam-
itled some 250A0 Armenians who had been deported from Turkey down inte
the Satlarat Desert. What did he find? Doctor Ianbert wrote iin article iII
which lie stlaid that when those 250.000 Arnenians were exainlted there wits
an extraordinary condition of vitality. Of course, ther-e were nn.tny weak from
starvation, but orgatilcally they were till right. There had been atn unnatural
selection going otn among those 1,750,000 who died from some weakness or who
were mentally not alert.
31r. VAME. That wits lit the migration previous to this one?
31r. HI'NTINGTON. Ye, sir: lint we iust etsnlhlitsi the general principle.
There is otte of the niost specific facts we Ive.
Mr. VAI.. fs Ititt this the real sltuati-n : So fair as seleethm i concerned.
you rann compare it with war. Wtar tikes the best. Those who survive are,
to loe sure. whtat tlmght lie called, generally sipakibig. the stretigest of those
taikei. 1tt tlhe whole part of those taken are the best In the corlitnity. and
asish frietu those. ttose Whill tire left tire the weaker, or older. and less lit for
wai'. III a disaster like tile lreseit ene. tl.(, Turk culls itit till the anhe-hodled
nielt iietween 15 and l50. He hikes all. i)t i" l irge titnmier of. the young, strong.
and andulsote winiena. Of the rean'nder. those who survive are the strongest
of those reilnting. but they are not the strongest ol' mnost cable, 1f the whole
popituitleon.
.1r. HrNTI.oro.x. That is iartly true. buaiutah wholly. Let tae tell yost wiat
kim,,,- to have hapliened. I went ta Turkey lit 1897. I find just graduated
0V ADMi141H0N O(IW EAI i.A,4T RRYaTVIEA.
from college, and I taught out there in an American school after the sias-
sacre. Later, I happened to be in Turkey on a scientific journey In 1900
when the massacre occurred at Adana. What happened Is. as you say, a certain
number of the men, who were able, were selected. Anybody.who Is promi-
nent politically or In a military sense, is selected to be killed. But, on the
either hand. those who suffer most in the ordinary massacre are the less corm-
isetent o1,0. I have seen that in a great many cases, and It is true that a
number or the leaders are cut off. That Is one of the great defects of the
Armenian people-they lack lenders. The outstanding leaders have been cui
off, and that is why they are In their present position.
The Turks have leaders and the Armenians have none. The rank and file
of the Armenians are strong people. However, th-..re are certal.%things about
the Armenians that I (1o not like, and I say tbat with all respect to their race,
because there are doubtless sone Armenians here to-day. When I first met
themi they gritted on me. After I had lived nri-ong them long enough to find
their rezi good quallt'es. I had a kindlier feeling for them.
Mr. VAIL. Can you not say that ahout all peoples in the world?
31r. HUNTINaToN. Yes; but I liked the 'Turk when I lived with him beIause
he was a good fellow. On the other hand. if I wanted a Job done when I was
there, do you suppose I went to get a Turk to do it? No: if I wanted a car-
pester. I went and got an Armenian, because I knew he would do the Job
properly. I always got an Armenian. On the other hand. I had a most de-
lightful time with the Turks when I was there. I was their guest. I had a
gay time with them. but. nevertheless, I did not trust the Turks to do the thing
that was wanted.
There Is another thing which I think is one of the strongest characteristics
of the Armenhns. I remember traveling among the mountains there. There
are a lot of" villages In which people call themselves Turks nnd sometimes
Kurds. They make a sign of the .ross before their meals. The reason is that
those lpeple are really Arieniani-thHt Is. they were 200 years ago-and a
certain nummlir (f people at that time gave up the Christian religion and
turned Turk.
Here, again, I cnn speak from the people I actually know. There was a certain
group of Arnmmenian professors In the ,olleg' where I taught. Among them
was a iman who wiag Iess strong of will titan, the others. aid during the
nmmasacre lie turltm! Turk. That is what has happen-d. When there was a
persecution, those who had less tenacity of purpose and less of those ,!epend-
able qualities whhih make a man stick through thick and thin. they became
Turks, and therefore there has been a great selection going on. so that the
Armenian of to-day has a ivculhllr tenacity of purpose which is sometimes
asserted in ways we do not like. That Is one of the chief reasons, I think.
If we (arry out this bill, we tire going to admit people who have more than
the ordinary degree of ability. True, we are not going to admit leaders
If we could get leaders, that would be better. What I say Is this: Here
we have a certai degree of selection. When we get Immigrants from most
parts of the world, we have no selection. They come in almost. indiscrimi-
nately, and we usually get the very poorest. In Armenia. this process of
selection has gone on as among no other peoples in the world, so that they
have a character we can count on. I urge very strongly that this bill be
passed, because from a purely biological point of view I believe the people
who would be admitted under it wiuld be stronger, mentally and physically,
than the average people we get-perhaps stronger, mentally and physically,
titan the average of our own people.
Mr. VAiL. Do you think that would bring up the average of the people
now in the United States?
Mr. HUNTINGTON. I think that they will, probably, lut that Is a dillcult
question to answer.
Mr. VAiLE. That is the question we have to determine.
Mr. HUNTINGTON. I think they will.
Mr. Wnrrm. I gather from your remarks that you think they will not de-
grade the statue qf our civilization.
Mr. HUNTINGTON. No, they would not. Of course, they have got matty
things to learn. And the same, of course, Is true of ourselves. But, on the
whole, I believe they would raise the standard of our citizenship. If I weN
called upon to select a group of people to come here, I would go first for
high-grade Englishmen or Scots or Swedes or Irishmen, and pick out from
the top, hut we caitn not get that sort. We can not get the top, but. we can get
Ieoidle about the average.
Mr. VA ty.. I understand, the provisions of tlis bill would permit old women
and men and young children, but practically no boys or girls or inei or women
of middle age from, say, 15 to 20 up to 45. to come here.
Mr. HU.NTI.GTON4. There are few of them to come.
Mr. V.gHr. So that the argument you make on behalf of these people would
not apply. lecauqe they to not exist.
Mr. HI'NTI.ovo.,. So for as the old lwople are conterned, it (toes not make
any 4'iffereniee. We should admit them from a humanitarian viewpoint. And
Ihey will not live long. The ehihlren rvoing here are different, because they
are ,oiig to become part of our population. and they are going to marry and
have children. They tire going to*either raise or lower the standard of our
citizenship.
As I said before. I an In favor of a restrictive Immigration policy. it fact,
I would go so far as to say that we should not have any immigrants for a cer-
tain number of years. lit considering all classes of our population, whli(. we
must do. I would say these refugees and the children should be admitted.
Mr. RAMTR. Are you considering that this bill applies to Smyrna?
31r. HUNTINGTON. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAxFA.. A gentleman told us the other (lay it Applied only to East Thrace.
Mr. HINTIGTON. AAcording to tle provisions of the bili. it applies to any
territory that was a Irt of the Turkish Empire before the war.
Mr. RAun. Do you sienak now of East Thrace or Smyrna hi the discussion
you ive given?
Mr. HUNTINGTON. I am speaking more of the Armenian. I would not dis-
tingiuish between (i4reks and Armenians. I think the same argument, to at less
degree, applies i the case of the Greeks. because they have not been subjected
to as much persecution. I have many good friends among the Greeks, and
they know they have not been subjected to that persecution, and they have not
got that tenacity of purpose which.is so eharacteristie of the Arnienians. Under
the provisions of the bill. we get a goomd many kinds of selection. In the first
place. we get the selection I have talked of. In the second place, we get a
selection because the people who come front Turkey and Greece to this country
are above the average. They have to get up and go, anti they have more ambi-
tion than people who come from, say. Austria. These, Turks and Greeks who
come to this country have to have the ability to get together the money and to
get away.
The CHAIRMAN. YOU think that those that are here now are tot the chest?
Mr. HUNTIxoToN. The best stay In their own countr.v, because they are not
dissatisfied. Immigration never brings to our shores the best people. There
are a great many different types of immigrants. and I do not think we are
getting the most inefficient. They turn Turk and they are Iost. Wherever
there is persecution, they are lost to the Christian people.
Mr. ItAKi:. Do you make tit(. dstinction that one of these peoples who live
ii Aslb Miimnr or in that territory If lie turns Turk lie Is lost?
Mr. H'NTINoTOx. The same principle applies; it Is only a difference in
degree. lit Thrnee It applies Ie,- than in Asia Minor. but It applies. This
bill .imreirs to ie very carefully drawn. and I say tMt without knowing any-
thlin about the people who drew It. I believe I have heard the name of the
gentleiimn who drew it. but I know nothing about him.
Mr. ItAi:i:. Art- you in favor of leaving practically till these Armenian
I ftgeimm in .riena tov come to Ameri.a?
31r. H'NTlNttToY. I ain dt
favor of letting us many as this bill covers come.
This bill provides thait onmly those who have relatives here may come.
The ('t.\iaiix.%. How nu(.h of i guaranty would you reconnniend?
Mr. IH' .NTixToN. I think under ti' cireiilistances that the provlsons should
le very light it that respect.
The ('.tinx. . How long would you have the guaranty run?
Mr. HI- TIN6TO.. I think that guaranty should extend iitill they are 80 years
of age, and in time (se of children for a year or two.
The ('IIA11iiAx. That woihlb be enough to put them ot their feet and keep
them out of the poorhouse?
Mr. HVUTING0TO.'. Yes; we must satisfy ourselves front the s4ientifle point of
view that this bill is right toward the country and the future and ourselves.
While It does not make any difference to us, yet It Is going to have an tin-
82 ADMISSiON OF~ NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
jiortant bearing upon ouir ilesceniihnt. Anti I think we should also consider the
haumanuitarian point of view.
The CHaAIRMAN. Would youk lie lit favoer of aidotitting. say, 30.000 In at bill
which would lower the other countries' fquotas, so that the gross immigration
to(te United Mtates would not be larger?
Mr. HUNTINGTON. I dto not know hoiw aiany people would comale undier the
larovislone of t~i4 i;t1.
ilhe ('agAnwI-.%. I -lil aissuniug thaut wie cain set anl arbitrary number. Woulil
you, then, be killing for the linnilgrettits front till other ixitittrieo to be reduced
so that thle gross audanlssmlo to tile United Stuates would nt be enlarged by file
adnlntsslom of these refugees?
fAir. HUNTINGToN. Yes, s~r; I would inake tilt- reqirenjents froin otlier
oinatries more stringent.
Mr. ltAlItR. By wity of Illustratlin. Sill. hams - relative InI this country
all(d Brown haf4 none. They are two refugees. Sittith is it sort of weak char.
aeter, pahysically, anti it little weak inetitahy. tbut hie Is mint, so bad that lie will
ie excluded under the law: but Birown is4 at healthy. -;troam-.. robmwt fellnsw o1
alvami 25mWthaout relaives hecre. Woldl You extc1mle4 Itrowia alit] .11lim1t .8ni tIt
under this bill? Is that right? I
Mr. I-1rNTiNiITON. I ito not thlik It Is right. butt I thInk it is Reev'earv.
Mr. RIAKER. Why niecssary?
.11r. HUNTINMtON. I thilik 1 N11011ld limi1 It lit tfil- way: We ti A1imercit re
klytoo say anal feel. '6Atierlea first." Plerlinps we are wrong III that. P'er-
qomally, I tink we goatimo far lim thaat ilirectoa. If that Is4ouri fr miclale. If
we are goin.- to take -are iaf our owti peopple, saty. if :Ian ii s here anil Is a
eizeti, We owe it trtalm debit to hhin which we ito nt ow~e to thme eatmishder.
i'ersoiii'ly, I would be lIn favor of striking out time restritonmi reaeralig reha.
lives. If any-bodly would gutarantee agalInst the inaiframat liecoinitag at Iiiimlie
clmarge. I would he 1mm favor nf atliniitting hina. I thltak thme melef soi-eties
should lie given the pivilege of guaranteeing these reftagtes I, thpy haave lao
relatives. I tMink that would be wihser zandmiamke our tielecihota mnre strike.
I favor strictness lin selection ant1 iatmotive whielh ill tiieal to thi worlit all(]l
lip tile- people am worth while.
Mr. It~CAina. " Appeal to time world and thep country." That doies Plni soulnd
-rood to mep.
31r. llvxmiGTOX. That Is not the basis on whlea I cattle here.
31r. BAKER. It you are going to appeal to the world andi liuilty. wily do4
not these licopte that are trying to get time Atieman people over here get to-
gether and borrow stanue of these ships that are rotting lit thle hatrboirs oaf mair
country%tmil( take soine of time produce that Is wvorthaless muid send It to these
people lin the country where they are atii keep thi there so) that they coni
eventatuitly go to work. Instead of brIngia then ito adreaily voiigestil epittmws of
time Unilted States anmd scatter then abroaid here?
31r. HU'NTINOT4ON. They are doing smne of that.
Mr. RAKER. Why dot thoy not work up the propaganda iaid go tit It with z~est
atid4 vimi, Instead of trying to bring inore people Into the United 84tatesie
31r. HVINTI.Nao. Thle Iieople who have that opportunity tire doing their best.
However, our hest nallat not lhe good enioughm. I think that here lit thm'- iiethod.
it seelis to aie, Is one of thle itiost praetleatae imethols there could lie.
Mr. WHITE. I wmmlit to nsk you thtIs hypootheticlease ak w elosse~i
to come, Into this country. One Is it yuaaig in (if (te taiume of Browna. ige
15 or 18 years, able to take care of hln'.elf ailly laiit lin thle world. autu there,
Is ties eiiiergettiy. Tile other is; a starimg. lyig. relative of anl .%rieian or
a (Ireek lit this country whio guniranmtees aile fn rn Ishes two other guarantors.
c'iiitory to his staitemtemat thuat hig relative will iunt lieconie a public charge.
Would you adnilt the onte whose life is Pafe oit the omme whoise life is In Jeopardy?
Mmr. 1-HiTINSTO.N. If yomt1 spoeik of time- old hoeople. any iaiiaswer would be
411ferenit.
111'. WiVITh. YingII- Orm 111,1.
If they are. starriag. dlylmjg, refuges, -would youl
.qave the dying tim111 'I's aiim aq rt a huittaitaitatiiai, or would you atuit tile
stromug nate will) lit1141t aliaeed ammyiartlmnlhmr (are. anduwho) vouti take care ot
M'ur. IIuNTiNE'ro-X. It ay seuk Ilkwe u1w tle hsiit-I would admIlt tile
strong one.
Mr. WIME I a tit hlig alsoitt thmesoue whio ilit's not need it.
MrIt.HilxTaMITOx. I ito) m10t think the chlmoee Is between thte two alternates.
'%I". WHim17. W~ouldl you noct lie liuniaiie lit tis, eniv'ageiwey? TisIs le ntuer-
gi('3' l1ull. It is Ilet .1 lo1l1 see-king tia e'stabilih iloijley. It is4a bill maiking
tinl exeplt(in to all establlishgeed jplle'y fuir tile puriuise of saiviiig the lives of some
stavinig' deserving j~p
31r. HINTNOTON. I nii conistaiiitlyi. torn between my haunianiturinu feelings
whlic'h sa1y, 11Jet us aidilt tall these ise'ople." tine my seientific conviction that
we caught not tit aelnilt jI-eoqmhe whoieore going to have defective, children.
.1r. WHIM; Wit tire agreed fill that. This Is n emergency bill, aind the
parincipal of it Is to admait soel of these people ad to limit the number under
tile pirovisisons written lit fthe bill ennay and concretely, andeno more than
we call1 safely iieliiiit lntos tis- countryy alt this time. It Is not a general policy.
It (145s 11ot propose tot replidiate tli nnigratton law or naullify It In tiny way.
Mr1.JIUwN'rlaTON. If we are going tot have a limited number, they should be
.selected froiamilong these refugees. Selections should el insiide froml among
those who, nieed this ]tell). and tile ones who would he most valuable to the
country fit tile future. The strong chaildreni should be taken care of. However,
tile fatet that at child is weak at the present ailoment Is no reason for excame-
talg liia.
31r. Wiiiv-I~ Suiiose the O'iild Is starving find we (n save Its life?
MNr.HUNTINGTON. Bring the starving one here first.
The CHAIaMAN. We thank you for your conatributiona. andeIf there a~re no
further questionsa to he askedl by gentlemen of the committee we will excuse you.
STATEMENT 0F MB. CHLARLES VERNON VICKREY, OF NEW YORK
CITY.
'TillCH'AIRIMAN. Whaltt is *Vf~lll' aieieia'e'Ss, 3.11.Vie'ka'e'
31r.Veiai . 151 Fifth .e Nu't-Nw York C'ity.
'The ('Himt.%N. .%till yur bh~lie'$5?
Vie'Kittv. I 1111general seie'4lilry tfo tile Xejlt-r asi itehiei.
.1r.
Tile C~HAIRMAtN. in~idly iflrot'&'l w~ithi yvour stsitetietit.
Mr. VICKmEV. I 113lue Jus-t tilee *eeiser'VitietiS I Wfvtil t ill ike Ir If W:I
atate that I hanve renad tile lsill Ii question. Tile IIiii ilire.sses iii' as5 it
W~e tare wlli~ig tol tidillit Intoe ourii 4'Il1lilt' e iiievlliers efi elil i l faliiiis eta.
tiiose whote sire iiniill('l' of tle faiiies eof ourii O'tizent.
.%r. V.%iix:. OJr of Iteeliha r'esientt lhere.
.%r. VICKnEY. Who have eleelarefl their purpose to bh et-c(itiz.enis. We tire
not tihrowintg tile lodgates ophen ii.v tiny mueans. Fu~r. fair, firl fromu tllriwhin
tlie tiecodgates oen. We fire merely sttitng that we wIll lip huiallie. we
ili le normal, ndt we will give it haven to those jserse'euteel iii ehrs eof our
own fiamilly. Tme number Is relatively snaill.
Seeiensl. I would observe that tlte situation lia tile Xear Faist is c'ertaily
ilillelile. 1 still sKure hilt iiiwit't'e. else ell0tafile..v f Ill(- 6-111,01 4,11113'1ll'ollis
Pituntion lie foijud, and I doubt whlethier oaae can bte found anywhie' Ill his'
tory. We are dealing with peopi. whole, literally aned ubisoliltel3', hiave no4
country efo their own, tand wheo. thouagha thley may haave been hoorn Ii at eertalil
Area iaiid their parent-, ae) grndpa~)trets for generations have beenla ioa't
there. they are stow. whether Juistly or uinjuistly lt; a secondelary question, they
are ieew absolutely being puslaea i'ightt out Itioe the (wean. There is 1141 lIthwe
vii eartli wlaere tiie3 van1 geo.
At th1is ilol h
1-t14111 1lielleit. wh'ieelil 1aisife ill tht. 11ill-imit~ailtt'3 1XI41111(41
refiljrees I ilat havie liceta referr'ed tel uts coining fromn Asiai Minor find Thraile.
a godt iiany cif whiomi lre' Coreviks andeArimenians:, it taeditioan tel that 1.000.00
there tite'- on this whiter 411ayu1s we sit here, fIn a country thalt IF; Fitter ('(114
aind over' ground thait Is; covered thie'k with snowli. being str'iv'en tests of
theliS11ilels-. lelt-1his l..ilirt-4'1es eat' thelusaiones. of Ariie'nbuisom 50Wef wvhies.'
rellotives sire lit til% rowlil-they aii'e being comtpelled tea leai e tle 1,11111 fi
Turkey. tipe ships uinit provisions of the Near East Itelief are keeping tiet
alive unatil they val get lt varliousi 1141115 tip i illiailk fiol till iiikil'l le'stiiiteiett.
Thle (u seti.If that condition exists, tane) I amn sure It does, It would
iletili that :ill 11he1,41.ilielvilng Ist-hlt' we'ii aet'eigie s withilia tile in1tm-
tie come'ene
Ing of tis bill1.
MNi'.Vieviiia. Yes; h]tl aily3 ii sitiaill iol'lltll ef thiaci will hiatve relatives Ill
'ile' I i1.N But liife iiitll e'tllill l ie e'vei' fiieu'euasiait if wve littesaili Iol
take e4aa'e of those54 \VP 1-4d' tit til, Its a'e'ri;'evs \1itit reitives 'it till'
111401114'llt
84 ADION OF NUBE EAST DB1UGES.
Mr. V'tvicitm. lttil we have the usual restrictions with regardl to) Illness ainl
other disqualitientlions. and flt- usual laitigrittion laws that restrict ceetain
undesirable clatises. it affects only aleidiet ortil. weii-iataio.4 jt4,fle
who attay be aditltedl.
The third point: For six or seven years I have had close relationships with
the Greeks and Armenians In the United States and In the Near East. I have
traveled from one end of the Near FAst to the other every 81uininer ftor five
years. I know the Armienians and the Greeks fairly well On both %Aiq.ThIs
very week I have lIndled a cheek-it it; not unusual, I do It many ties a
year-for $17,000 troum three Armienin In this country whoi vinatributed inl.
vidually to inoventents with. wichl I oin connected. Awlh they represent it soine-
what larger group that have contributed something wotre than $2$MN1.OIt) front
Purely Armenian sout-ces fo)r the relief of their tfotrttunate lohtl overseas.
without re-trictions as to fte mnethith iif tlitriitithon. iit my minnd the-se Arine-
Mans. tire the ntiaot idustritius. fritgol. tit- isest-potii'ittel limphlpt'hat can he
fMind anywhere lit the( Near East.
Am to the pohbttllity oif their beaming jiilic charges, here lit .Au.erivit there
are naoproimately ItMt.49X) .4riiuans. I perminatly, itt heasi. loire never muet
an A~rmenian beggar lin Anterha. I lie inet lwggnurs- of1 thatr %C111111 sof bhwad-X
that I rontie frime. 31114i1 lhave miet ittiligent people Of that sttRain Of i1d1004 Mha
linnvs through may veias. but I do not revacll ever-inoving I-epti askedl for at cent
of inoney by n Armninan In the United States.
On the cointrury. they are ptrovIing ftor their ownt peiople largely. x-tsv
-of this $2.000A(01 which the prosperous, thrifty Aritenin citizens- oif om counm-
try have sent (Or general relief, uuit-estrie-tetl. we lie luanttiild another
$~X)fi.bringing the. total, to mo(re flunm IN)0IJ which we hiave spent.
its Mr. Morton indicatedPI to care foir their de-ar fathers and intthers andl tether
ra-lativesa overseas.
I wouldt like to in1troduce Miss Sattiifan linuleatingl wvithuoat asking hier lt
make any statement. although she can %peak English tluently. Sihe Is at lyje-
of the Armenians now being debarred. She is4In the United States unider bond.
lnuviig lnded at Elit- Island three wvtks ago. She was taken captive lit 1915.
Her father wasa a prinfent mierchaint. Thaith her father and her another wvere
killed and the fnaoiy scattered.
I have another letter fwin another MAr11411h111. It wats aiddressedl to tine (of
tour foniier anibassadors. He Is 'Mr. -. a college graduate. andu I wanit tot
paiuisp Jus&t right here to) say that the average college graduate lin the Near Viast
is&nti Arit-inlao nithter than. of tlip other races there. They are the best educated
classes. I hare seent lit flt- colleges. andt especilly In the re-kte homten andl
orphanalges, iitellY scores even hundreds, Of well educated, ctultured Ar-
nieniln girls of thle typ of 1iss Sh"ainhdan. bearing the sante typeo of Trkisi
tattoo on their faces., it-s MsShianitan liean. These girls, have jast ats utauch
cuttutre and education as thep average American girl.
The oine I Rspeak of atow Is 'Miss -. fron whoan I received it letter veq-
torday. She Is tit Ellis Island at ft lte. Her muothier and father have twen
killed, bttt she Ioas two brothers lit this country. Onie of thtemt Is tit (only it
c'ttllegt' grudttvate lttt lie Is a college professor at ('Orneli Untiversaity. He has
been mnade Armitenhait Instructor of American youth. He would like to) lhave the
privilege of caring for his sister. Site has another haother. a musc-lam,1 whlo
gets $150 a mntth. He In abundantly able to pare for his sister alnti lip wouldl
like to do it. but unider tlie present law It%v-aninot do so.
I inight have qoinitting different to) say It we contemplated titrowitg down.
the Immigration harm and saying "1Conip In."
'Mr. 1C;xczuK,. The relief would he grtited not only to thep Armnioatns hut to
the tither groups that occupied this territory.
'Mr. ViciKaEY. Yes.
'Mr. KL.ECZVKA. Has tlte Greek Gloverinent made any provision for tier nai-
tionals that were trIiven fromt Smyrna?
Mir. VICK-at. All site can, aoni It has dIone a thing that te Amtericant (11nvent-
ient refuses to do.
Mir. KiizcZA. What Is that?
Mir. VicKREy. Mie gives help to the Armnenin thtat coute there. Probably
there Isi no country Impoverished as Is Greece, yet despite her Imnpoverisheud
condition, the organization I represent to-day has more than 100,000 Armenian
orphans occupying one of the palaces In the city of Athens, while Greece has
10,000 of her owva citizens that would like to have a place on the floor.
Mr. JIAI(FR. These people are citizens% of Cireece?
AD4S O 0) EAR EAST fFUGMl~. 86
31r. Vxclany. No; they are Armenans. It is the feilowshila of suffering that
(1au5's the Greeks to eare, for these Arnieffaiaas, while we Lzm~e no room In our
iaunty for these persecuted peoples. The Lazarus who Is .ying at our gate Is
freely admitted while another poor nation, Greece, regardless ot ammy claims
Armnaas mnay have to Greek hospitality, has under her control a palace that
was once occupied by William, the Kaiser, on the Island of Corfu, and Is caring
for Aratienlatm therein. I hope William will never enjoy tilat puaac again.
It would be the natural thing for the Greeks to turn that palace over to somte of
her owat people; but, Instead, site has (lone something we refuse to d10. Greece
has inaee that palace aval-able for the Near East relief movement and we
leave in that palace to-day 3,148 Armenian orphans.
M r. BtAKEn. D~o you kncow how much America has contributed through dif-
fervet orgainboitios anud Individuals to tme Near Utisi?
Mr. V'lcKMEY. They have done It as iudividuels, not ato a Onimgresslonai aet.
%Ve have givr $70,00).010I foar the suppori of tlwse orphans, ande It i.s fair to My
that wile tvireeve furncishmes the palace, we pay for the food).
Mr1.It.AKi:R. Have we not co)ntributed caere. than $700O4)000?
Mr. Vic~EE. It may 1* $73,000,000. I have the whole figures.
31r. lIANXER. ]Beginning whent?
31r. VicammEY. In 1915. 1 erred a moment tigo. The Unitedl Stattes Govern-.
accenkt, in 1919, under Mr. Hoover, nadee a Ion). of $12,000,000 to the Armnenians.
andl this was spent for flour.
Mr. JIAKER. East Thrace are Greeks?
Mr. V'iciREY. Yes.
Mr. IIAmk3. Was Hot Smnyrnia Greek territo.,*y?
31r. VICKREY. Chi1elly. It wats Graek In tiLIE Moist people residiag lIt 1.- 4
"irncal
were Greeks.
Mr. ICAKES. What geverinment had Jurlolic'ece before lice var?
31r. VicKIEy. The Turkish Government.
M1r. UAKER. Dide not Greeve have It?
r.VwKme~v. Xeat fia recent years. SmyC.rna simneV'iontintiliqehe have for
recerct lon.;s atI feast 1)Iaet neer *lhe '1'irkish ibivermmment. Un~til the reent
ex04111' themet wer". 111411-t C'lar0t fias Mt~an Turks ii ('e'aistntiaepje. I will neat
are (larhatlims lit Smyraa thiin Turks. baut the niere ag-vessve. thrifty
inCY
Oiment wivc Ariita.. aandce 41ireeks.
Trice Arcacecalaes 1114lit loist hatthe 18inyini fccire3011e1 ('40111s841ti011 $118eiIJK)
IcyV
oafArmienian. amceaaay. fromacwild Ilcey au holie teoget noe ristur. 'ersoces whe
,Aere oance inillincalres an- noew liimcierislmee attachii ehire acecel. %Soaaeof
1hiPeSP hc&11ldhe
%V4111141
1111t11111axY
e1f 1. 0a11teaf lIIAWcleSS.
Mr. It.'scn. Are time Italiaen- jaroeliic for the- Ihillaucts ande ti'r relcelives
there'.
Mr. Vaiamty. Thata I vain tct anlswer.
Tme CHlAIRMsAN. Yeam slxoke aio the Arasienhetns putting its ecut of iacsiess"ot
Mr. VicnvRyi. I wceacat by that In point of mental acnebusiness aicuicen I
ssletedIs~n of thesew maen aire better leusiness men than 1 sin1.
The ( ~a~.'.Better laiesl~vss tilen ii Ureece tim you are lit Almeerivail
3P. lacHREuV. YeS: that amajclat bli eqlually SlgnltleC111t.
31r. ItAKER. We lauel it Hindeum laefare Mle committee, andaI tink every namemuher
of thp (eluilillttt'e would have eleiffe l ils it teathis nm.n lie was exeeptlanaclly
bright and well e'elccateel.
31r. Vm(Kciv. I tit neat knew. I was only trying teabring oaut oime isliat. Tils
lit noet teoualen tile tleoihgates of Imamigration.
Tme 4'HAIieMAN. Thigh coicmiltee- mat here tis very leescr oane year ageo
and lit-arel the amie appeal foar reftigees then In Polanel-elot the Identical
worels.
Mr. B1AKER. I an trying teaget hloled of may sympathetic feeling. ptullinlg It out
U-ithiput showing that there Is another situation. The American Government
and tite American people live here. We can not fearget that. We Just let our
symmpathr run away with us.
Mr. Vicnnrr. No: I think there Is a possibility of the Atneream Government
being so prosperous, so richm, so self-complacent that It will go the way of
ancient Rome.
Mr. BAXER. Where do you get that misinformation when you find people right
In your own country starving and living In tents?
Mr. VicEREY. I should be happy to care for anybody starving In America.
86 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST BEITGBES
" hle Ct1~1HilN. asnet-ent Wtoimp go?! It w~as bty the Infuit-on of otlier
lica 41111
elements Intot
ijitt JII.opsilation.
Mr. 1'iccN'VY. Yes.
Youa spoke (of Iiil. P'oland.i elf votulr14. i11.1 have it gtiv5rettiiet. tilthlin-thi
wre nty hiave different estitates of' tile strength (if that government tud lse
value, of It. Likewise. whent It coniem to Ruissiani rt'figepe. ittasIss~l 11if
t'rniatnt, whissiever may be our estilnate of the strengtil anti value of it:-,ut 3140.
hootly Ias being absolutely drivenl out into the seaI from tin 5113 t)ntty em'Xtt
Armenia.
Mr. KIjcczKA. Thn Is tlie jinlnt this 1,1illIises this relief et-ttgailis
grotsitsti-givling relief' to certain residents who lived li e'talit territory st it
tertain time. Do y'ou not think a dlistinctioni should he Inide rather oil the
ground of allegiance? I)o you not think that If there iosit government In ex-
istence and It Is able to take care of Its nationals, we should look to that gov-
ernmetnt for relief, aind tiiat It any relief hsi tmoirleil It ought ito lot- atveorohcl
to those who have no governtmient tit till to porttevt thleim?
Mr. NEtaKFy. Ys: 1 agree with you.
Mih.KIFCEZK.l. III tit C11et' It Witi ilmly l'rimsitrily to tlt' .Armnsutinwt who
Iive nso government. except at little territory lIn Noylet iussla, mid14whoo haivte
noe authority to look tatter then.
Mr. Vtcaarx. )in regard to Greece. you have all iIli~'iltop roe' wl~i lui
atmillion refugeCes tharowns upon them imtl sotan' oif tljeil are aulotlaeri. lbroti-.rs.
sisters. oir other ti-Itlivet'5o] hisgh].% 4-tiutatteel. prosperous 42r'eks wh~o re4s4u. lt' ,
thIsk country.
31r. KEmcm%.. fir tlt- twit tlzisses. till you lacit tislitk tut3111101 wiso, iss( nao
government andt nlolasly to care for thtema should revelvi first itsteiationtc
MrIt.Vaim I shmild say moi. All through this1 ltaw there Is at suiiiiiusillon
thatt tilt per-1son to whomt tile appolicanmt wouil primarily Icmik Ix tlt-. soto1tit- Ilt
brother whot hats comate to Attereai. established his eltizeashsip. lieriatli astitlied
$11foortuate, unci who would like (oi give at home toohis issiser andis slsters- lit
under the jiremsnt low hescan licit give usly relief.
'ritel t'tUHni. 'iThen let us, go Into 111ltll. Weinici yoiit eiaiatige I1 lt'ltt
tiota of " ref agee " tor [pa it('ew Inw?
31r. Viciy. Have unjust military operations imieie reflugees trolls l1,ti.
garit ?
The ('n1ArtAN. Not yet.
M%1r. Vzcmu?.. Til- law 18 sot-liveci. Andt I think It imwis' to htaves it siuit.
lived. It exl~ires Int a little tuore tlrnn it year. 1"41111111WIN licit ('1oa1~t'ilheI er
people to 1eant the country.
Mr. JtAKPn. It boItat'dlse OIl'tItVP aitti limits the time. Ytou spoke very en-.
I sisit illy In talvtol o! titc'se people that were dirivetn ouit mtill itav. tno relal-
fives.
Mr. Vzearkum Yes: it 1is petfectly lirolier tt have It ternate fin 1t little ovk-r
a1yeatr. We till have faiths enioughi to believe that wvithin at year's timea tings
%%Ill so tuijaist themselves tiver there that people iani get their hearings.
31r. ICAKF:t. itevently it gentieumin whio lute! traveled oiver that country till-
1-4-ered l'ef'et 11 ti commttee ind stated that ivitihis 10 yeats thjete will lie
25.4#KI(XXI or :l0.1(KI0K refugees lit tisitt routitry fiint wili iitt too euiott tei
Anmerica becatust'ost it' implitictil unid ruil confifltona existing there.
Mr. Vit-xiivy. 'lt'illl. liteit s It is mlyIlat tissuse-A liloilt relatives. ties's1
lict begin ft oWI ethie gate.
Mr. 1llIt1. If yout noii Ihe' gttt' lit favor of iote'. you (-till naot slits It Ili tile
fatte of' another.
Mr. V'lt-KRK. Yes; because there Is a great mtigrattionl going on there. It Is.
sio tilr as ity knsowledlge goes, unprecedented.
'rise ('tt.IttaiAN. Is It tit at thtat as refugees tit tils mtomlenlt tire beting
miovedouatt 1114iered for others tire pouring lin. c~laiing to lie of thle type that
:i,', tswtiiet by tile 'rurklshi iseople and11taking tile phice of the origilss refi-
gVees.11'i1ilttiliig to ihave been hotirn lit those places? Kurds. and people frot the
sothti (if Witusi i sre comIing fit. Ta the nmigration going on night antd tiay?
fr. VwaaIcry. I at not mire titat I tlersitunel.
Trite CHAIR1MAN. Here are n lot of' little countries. nt we call theta tile Near
uEatt. here nrt' some onl flie Black Sea lit foinent-the people moving, Oil
..sseasIi( to ibe seftigees. We htsve thsese refugees now ehemeaundliig the ]tell, sir
Met.(-ivillzeoi world. ind ltipe l'nltei States Iii particular.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST 1IEFIUElIE. 87
Mkr. VicKREY. I lin quite certain that nione but Turks will take the place of
refugees In Asia Mlinor, and the Turks are not Included In the bill and they
fire- not aipplyinig it loirge numb~lers for iihilssloii tot the Uniitel Statesi.
T'nw ('I1AIRM.N. I bePlt-ve- Ilw Turk Is not .i~linlsii'le. because we dcny atlinis.
shial t) I)lygaihsts. ('(4.
.11r. V.iiiith. I have- %itioh it aullegraii from Coitantinioplie, ii p'art of
which I volld I ike- to ri Into the records. It says, li part:
.AiliriiiIch ('lrisinns tieldus '.\Par ],;*lst Itellef working night and(day remov-
Ing lr*'Oatilllh (uulstlnhtinoiple orli11i jpinees greater security. It will inii-
orible yuletide tells housaitils who thank Ainerkeani 318413(1it e suemeeued reach.
Ing ne-" line.
"Allf Xnair E~ast Iteilef h11r111u31ing.'.'
Colluuilit.:ople %Vill i-voliittohy Chlrlstuias
DInii 3st lelllril3V3 1.240 ex tsh4liial1 embaiirkinig 21st spending Clhristmut::.i
limoiri sift wlieeoii 4'tisliiiai provihctl tree. lleiui Amiericani Chistnmas din-.
IIIe3*wilih lilwy 11l:itiiltii for 4cliittrt':i 18AN (Ireek-Arinaian refugees now
4'.ist iitol Ole. Theiy will lie guests (Vilin itliots obouaird Anterican dce
stfouyer I.itvh field. lei Armenia 20,(0) orphanii will plarticiplate t'hitiat 1 cele.
lOat .01 iiraigtil by3Near Havst flit-f lei Amiericani orphanii city Alextimliroloo1."
.Il. Vwititi. I'll:% iilllegraini is dlated I eceinla'r 18, 1922. und It; mignt-4
'i'l4 n~u~i. NMiily or Oli rt-fiigt". tit you linve lei itili tit ath(is 3314
1i14-ilt a1'*' lit 4 4isiilio ltt
Thtii (IliiI. liiita1ll333?

lo.
ilt-' C'HAiIRMAN. Whn'ltr ele are they?
.Nil. V'ICK34RE. A gret- iiiy of 1ti'i in' iili Greete temporarily. (itliers li-(
Coiiling Out of soilsolln.
Air. V'CIcilKy. Tile idilces Whilrt 50113' osirt113 (ivill Iem' t4(1iy wer'e 134.31
lie 1%itrsiv'oii Sivais. len(d elsewlipleii the Interior of Asia.
TllP4('iiAlIR.AN. 'T11418P 1d3111' Ill'e Iill outrie's (eslgiliattd its wliilt?
313'. 14iinvy. To list. 13 lit Tuirkey.
phelig3irose. We sloeilk of Aniatolia.
lit ai st-fui 1413ofTill'key3.
TIie I 'iilAIiMA.N. AI*P tlt-ea'e1I Iill i Arilueiiia 1Mimrove?
31r. V'IKN3V. Vinier 80VaI leti1(13451( there' tire iliouit a mlilli ArielanlI'c
but1 they 333-4'not, 1't-fiig-ve. 1311 tit) lnt coin iio 'thiii tlie provsion1s of this bijll.
.Ir. WYiTEr. How inity3 Arnians ore still tenider territory sub~ject to
Turkish rule?
31r. Vi-ity Ti'lllt Im.fif ,ourse, it V'ery vitgle qutestioni. %1r. Ninismn, ('033-
1i1illloiis. I111t 1 think (hi 1131y hi~lave loena high at tilelttle lie innte tihe Psti-
uii-. imiil Ilivre-Im 1311 stet'uly (ofltis ouit ufi that cuntry sliee that t'stl-
ateu3
1i1ul16.WIIs iiui11.l.
.1r. ltAIMC.10 1111111. iIaItIyefuge Will t1his hill let Into tue United States?
1'.Vic4xuu-Y. It 1i4l33hits only those whos lavte r''i-ltiisg' iilit' U1ite41 StUltS.
.I1r. It.ilxEl4. Iui your jliolgrieit. 10w 133311' W0111IE1 It 114iu1lt to theC I'liiti'll
Stati's It It i-v'a*ilii it laiw?
.1r. Vienuer:. I en give fipe threr ast It ('11131 143331 front high itlltority.
it114 50m().
31r. Wiii'rr. TIhait is 30133' ilgimient?
Mi'. vic's iurv. Wes luiseil ulif'il whiat I leave beenl lold].
.Ar. WviiTr'. It halt%lbeell sfatd by t(liIest authority' lialnilh after it most34
(iireftil coniislle'aitlon of everything Involved, tbat It might admit from 5,000
to 20.000.
.1'. lt.ieilt. How 31131 Elor t'e lis13 t ailed front tilese 'tleg thrnouhii
Ow34 slitow aindudrifts. si3341 lare lit it fi-eloie r41314llt14,1. could14not blirouight lip
tils ('ohlutry?
MNr.Vwithy. A majorityy. biwanhP (1his bll excludes them).
M.%It. lM. Youi wold toke 5i,000 of thein noed let the remndiler go?
1Mr. Vii'xiij.-. I would other save r).000 thon none. We all leave, I think,
it tviiulr pliu'e li our hearts for sister lend brothers, nee(d mothers and5 fathers.
i13i1 lbos.' (of our owvn blood. a1n1 this ill) would make It possible ait least to
sort'
T
those who nre meembers of families who are citizens of the(, IUnitedt Stotes.
liu 47u..ARnMAN. I (1o not mean to lhe offensive In asking questions. I ask
y'ouivs1 a lirnetleail man It yan think there Is any difference from the feeling
.88 ADMItI(O4 OF NEARl EAST R".FVUE1Sd
that Is centering on 4tis clowinittee, as is shown by telegrams and other ceto-

munlations reciveA 1by it, that the public isil is going to be ceatered on
the relief of a few thousands to the exclusion of a general relief which the
Americans will give to the whole relief question? Is not this effort a drop lin
the bucket and Is it not likely to weaken the move that would lead to a great
Christian move to (-tire for a suffering people by giving to them over there?
Mr. ViCiCREY. No; I do nat think it will in the least affect the continuation
of contributltns of the people of America to enable these people to come
here. I think it will, on the contrary, encourage the people of the Untited
States to give more liberally. They will be encouraged by the knowledge that
the Government of time United States is doing all It can for these miserable
people.
Mr. ltAKER. The witness put a very strong question to me a minute ago.
You say there would be about 5,000 a few more of these people that
lnd
would come to this country. Could not these 5,000 be nicely, properly, and
well eared for immediately, by sending them necessary things rather than
sending for them to come here?
Mr. Vtoicanty. I do not see how. because the one Is almost a debt continuous
year after year, a subsidy to an able-bodied man or woman. That able-bodied
one would like very much to come and Join his brothers and sisters in the
Greek candy shop here mand become a self-supporting, productive citizen. There
Is no expense whatever if that able-bodied person comes and is cared for by
those already having a competence.
Mr. IIAERI. It is said that the Smyrna dlistrict Is one of the greatest unde-
veloped countries lit the world-that the land there will compare favorably
with that in California. That being the ease. why do we not thihk of pro-.
viding for these people there and not bring them over here to take tMe places in
the candy shops?
Mr. VicKiixY. I aiU retnindi.d that I sat li your office, Mr. Horton, four years
ago. I was deeply impressed by what you told ae--that the region of Samyrna
an( the hinterland were tMe richest places lim the world--that, under a coin-
petent and proper government, they would (colupare favorably with southern
California It prluctiveness.
Mr. ItAKER. And northern California, too.
Mr. VievuEr. Yes; and I believed him.
Here Is a sad fact. Time Armenins fled from Smyrna because it was a ques-
tion of fleeilg or dying. This young lady o my left, Miss Shauinan. do you
think she is go!rg to return to Smyrna. the place where her another and her
father were killed, and where she herself was in prison, and where her brother
was taken prisoner. Would anybody advise her to go back to) Smiyrna and try
to reestablish hersIf?
The Armenian patriarch-I know him well-groans at the thought of his
people going front the place where they have for centuries maintained hoines.
It is the power of time swordtat the present thne- that makes it impossible for
Chrigtin people to remain on land which these Christian people have hal fol
centuries.
I believe that Is all.
The CHAIRMAN. We appreciate your statement, Mr. Vickrey. If there are
no further questions to ask Mr. Vickrey. the hour of 1 o'clock having arrived.
the committee will recess until 2 o'clock this afternoon.
The CHAIRMAN. Time next gentleman to be heard is Mr. George Horton, of
tIme State Department.
STATEMENT OF MR. OBORGE HORTON, STATE DEPARTMENT,
WASHINGTON, D. C., FORMERLY CONSUL GENERAL IN CHARGE
OF THE SMYRNA DISTRICT.
Time CHAIRMAN. When did you leave Smyrna?
Mr. HoRTON. I should like to say. If you will pardon mie, before answering
tiny questions at mill,that I notice these questions here frequently take on the
nature of opinions on various subjects. I should like to say that If I express
muy opinion, It is iny own personal one and does not In any naner Involve the
responsibilIty of tie Site I)epartment.
The CHAIRMAN. We are glnd -to have that statement. Te committee en-
deavors at all tines to protec-t witnesses tand especially those front the State
I)ellartmnent. so that If aliy iniproper questions are asked, you may either de-
t-liIIt to mIisw'r theum or 0tlilllmulte thmemm whn you revise your statement.
ADPAISION OF NEAR EAST 11FI'UGEEM. 89
Mr. liono. I would further Informs the mossssattt'. aind lhive It u~nderstoodl.
thiat I have hand lil istruction.4 from the State Deltjwrtillent im to the nature of
nnly answers to hle itacic here. it other words, anything I give does not cosie
front tile Ittt D department.
Tile CHIRMs~AN. Woulld yill IlkV to rcsceeid with a1Stitesliet'it tit pare tile
Mr. Ileaok-ox. I do lnt know exactly.
The C'Il.AuRMAN. I Maiy 811y tlt tile commiiilltmI aditstz the isItuotion as It
exit& and has held liesirinis for two daiys. tievoird prIneipally to tile unarstacres
andiethe action (of the Turkish (11overninept ill piK-'ktting tho$e uiot imissiaereel
tit move out. *.Intl inside at little study of tile kiuul of Pelotle in Alnatoias anti allied
regIonls. aind is, now uconsidering thle aidvisaibility of repjorthiftg this bill. Thle
41tiestion Is. Should we stand on the question of the deitnition of **refugees."
;I, found lit lines 4 aindE9 of the tirst page of the hill. It reads:
-That whaen ustedl in this act the terint1 refugee " shall sueon tiny gwiron whoe
IMSslIed1 fircii Ills 1ci011tP Mince tile 1st of Octobser, 1fR21, siltel was resident. prior
tot leaving from his lesnie In (a) tile territory befonglsig tot Turkey am definedi
by tile treaty of Sevres, or (bi) other territory eccuplei lby Turkish military
or' viVII authorities since October, 1920."
Mr. HIOUTON. I cani maiske a br.ef stuite'nivct that will give the coiiitlsittt'e all.
Idta of wihati tlie scope~ of miy knowledge Is. 1 wits 'is Mmuyis sit tilt time esf
ft- giving way of flt-G reek Aristy andi4the a~rrAval of the Turk At troops Ii
Sm~yrna. I wits there elur~ug three tny-, of imssacre, :lit] I wits there whent
tile city wats set oit tire. I sews filr litirsi uits to teiC and5 hell) Illt the li15
sister. and1(three dlestiroyers we're sent tile.
Wh'Ien the situation because very crltecsl, I dle'otel say entire (ttte to thiullig.
andic rouinsg up, stnt hefiti.l4g or corneeutritthig the X~int-ricani Vo.lonlt's Ili :I
jsire psitroleel by Amterican Marines, mid4tuder mys gt-end jur'xeictleoii. Whien
tit- lire got sit neart the 'onislaite thait It was jitillilssslih tol relmIn in it tinsy
longer. I took msy Auterlesin Colony ai evacuatsted thesis to Atheiss, where I
foundtt lodgings stud g.ot suoney for thesis. They arrived there absolutely ulesti-
tate. andt there were, alluin.g their tmtn a11t1 famsshle.4 who) had! prevlesiisiy ben 't
51pood lsiuchal condition, andewliss 1111(iset only beu'rs self-suppomrting. but pro~-
.ducing alit exporting.
Mr. Ks AaZlA.Xlt ts it*-liuppelued lit October?
Mr. HoRTON%. The ire Iii Ssusyrui broke ou1t sonie tiltie Ins fte orensoout or
toward noon11of 8ejiteisier 13, aspt~ ireatd w~tli -sihi great rtililehity, sandithe
inhaibitaunts colllectedl it suchi gresit crowVdsR about the contsulatte, wh cli Is netir the
harbor, that, sit flit- request (of the senior ntvid offices' present, I took thle
colony awily. abou4111 o'celock, S.eistestber 13-, when'i the flsames were itiresuly
apprsoach~isng flit- consiflate, ilul took them to .%then.%, where I cared for them.
Whi-si I reachsedl A'thesns. I gost Into !susstclhte telegrip)iii! e'oltitiiileaioln with
flse Sisiate 'Ltpartraeit. stnd It ;nstruetel sile ter reins there smid losik after the*
Atssercstn ('olousy. which I did( for Atbouit two week,%. or* until i masn wats senit.
TChis was 'Mr. fisem' S. ilzer, one of the consuls tt ostutsup I wits
eliiistijtlig sihl tel tse mnemtbers of the Atuercai (!olonyv, Who were at few
niative-biorni clt>,ens of the United States, hbtt largely nlaturalized tcizens.
htt'iaitAC5 of these people had been sepsuratell lit very inanuy vases from tih'
.Aiitliist (Iv .I itzes!nd e estash~ee a sort of bureauI of Informions. We
foundedI gcrod mansy of them find been killed or diled, sintd Whomer kept selseisg
11pfr-on thne to time., anti thtroughs itstrsictloii- front tis' Stuiti- Ithpaii'tient.
from whloms I retceived 31 sufficient sums of money, we gstve 5tW('oi. so) ittily
4liitehIS It eIIsy.. I flppon.ltI'd 0 comtmittee for that putolmes. 11j1e1 they gave. als.
succort to the el epelst reative,, of these Ametricuan etlzetis. The idea of tis
appropriation wsts thaut it shtould he used for the Istinudliste relief of these'
Ailiericstst citizenss .11141 tile t elenetsnt relitivs, muid thle relhattiistl( of Amuier
,van1 citizenis.
I understand there nre still In Athtens it large ntumbaer hteig relovveel by us.
1111( the question of repatriation of thle dependent relattives Is noew the burninlg
quepstom. I oumld control all these imen because I brought: mty books with nme.
We could control tite fact that sneh a114 -quell aj 1111111 wim11 Amier:csii cit scsi
andte had come to Suyntyii to sell property or for other hilesstiz4. He wouildi
shJow up ini a laty or two with his sister, who hail two or fltrecslle i
whose husband hal! beeni massacred. She would lnt have at con'. the children
were starving. anti4 we would have to hell) 1theml. Or mtaybe this American
ctih7en'q mtothier would show 111). and lip wold sav. , eIw (.,it I gosto kitericis
.111dl eave these ilc'ar relatIves behlssd'I If I aui t allowedl tot take thesis to)
90 ADMI."'iOX OF NEAR EAST. REMV ES.
America with tile, I cuminkeep) themma.- These Anueriam citizens utiily have
business interests here and( a~re lperreexiy ale to Nice ire oi these relatives
lit Smyrna over here. You cam not ask tiny ammima to accept free puissiage to
tile United1 States nd leave Is old mother or father for ilLs sister or Is
children fimSinyrnt. Tbmmt Is the poeiomI mif those people.
Mr. KLEVYJCA. What wits tihe nmetmbershaip oft time Atmer 41111 m'mbloimyundmmer ytiur
charge?
Mr. HonroN. It was not barge. I-wotim Ny ubomut 6-1)0.
31r. KLECZICA. Whilt would you estlimimite as being thei muitmmier iof tiepemidlem
relatives of American citizens!?
Mr. HORTON.%. They have a great mumm11y depenldenlt reiives. TIile number'
would not be very great. 1 could not say ; bitt time Ititter of repatriating time
American citizens amid their American relatives would not Involve time brmagimIng
over1 of a great manmy Ppe le from Smnyrnia, andu Smmyrna Is sill I know about.
31r. TrAytOR. How long didl you serve lit time capacity 'if 4-nsiml gellie'
M1r. HORTON. Nimne years. I wvent there, front Stinlki. Resides comasublir wvok
I handlee] mamny coimmunmiicationms. After time signing for' t arin'stice, andm
ifter lime landing of the Greeks, I wuts sent back to 1.4nym'mm.
Mr. TAYJ.0R. Whiat wits. time popultin~ of Smyrnam before time fire?
Mr. HORTON. It Would be diffi1CUlt to may. bemase Mier'e werme amahmay ek
troops there. I should( saty about 5O0tJ0.
31r. TAYwiJO. You hald becen servimg In Mot (eumpamety Its smimlymmami for 1aliiimit minle
years?
Mr. HoRTON.%. Yes, sir.
Mr. TAYLOR. Tile (ireek troops, thmou-, I. hamd Itot beein there very mimngC.
Mr. HOuTON. I do no,. niamam time Ureek timiojas fronma (lam Interiour; I ilmealtm imi
gitir.som timat used timmt city is at iasme. There were about 111.40W). mil optth'
it naumiber of Greeks hmad voimme fromt (mim(reeve to t'sMai'iisiaI fiieims'vesaimr.
There 10141 been am imtereamw. The oli fig-uare wits alantat 45amJM1 limamtiim, lbut
sit (imetime of time disaster It wits abom: 5i(N.IJIQ.
Mr. rAYA0mi. Whammt is tit(e momimatilom of Stnyit'n slime tis is-aster?.
Mr. HouToNv. I will give youa ammestiamte. Theme were, say. 1W..4)00 Tirks
tIn 84amyraa. 11114itime- 1-t-ama1uma ita illamilmhtmt of Saamyrnamwere lut 11-31ish'mma,
50.00 tir 60,4)(10 JIews. 150114NI 41reekls, 2.M") Arianemmms, Ifmiimms, Emmgiimmema.
'The (;reeks imusi live bieen moruhe it Ime ilme of time mlkmsts'm. Everyinily.
him'aitieaily. hias elm'mime I mint emcept time Timats. I siithla nt fliik timere mn'e
more timm 1-5t,M1 people 1mm Smy'mmm ait this tilme.
Mr. 'J'.YLOH. This mmmissmi(re wvas aot (tioledil o milemias mal01ne. WitmsIt?
M.Ir. I IoRTo.N. Thme n tinsiiet. whmen It comimemiiem, liii ke limitI icimli m'13 in
tiae limads of the Armwmmlamms. Thie Armenaliam quater wmms.systeniammiatlly
liliged anmd mmimcmed fr'omm ommiemad top timp other andi timemi fireud. Tile Aime-
iius were the one's whlo wvere particularly hmmnteol flotwn andc miuse 1it every
p osile wa'my. Thre. imnan~mimier-imclef onftime Turkish arnmales mamimaneed thliat
his trnois Itim] beeotmne -somexcitedi thmmt lin-e onimi not coinmtrol thmen]. Time fury
broke ouit oi time Armean s. Tmere' were. however, a great manmy (Greeks killedi.
SiMr.T.AyLOR. What itrot'itles mid tis vomiimmmbi'iiilbfcimphmimm
aiibiut?.
Mr. HORTON. It wats ehaiimed titat time U'reek ar~my, 1mmiti'etreait. set lire Ito
vilhiges amid killed mm good manimy Turmmks. Doubtless there wums it gtxinmcleat] of
triuthm In It, bitt I do0 mot know, 11114d 1 eimi only testify to tiimgs I saw.
Mra. TAy.om. Tim -.- W-t.% dnei willfully, wmthomat 31may immmcaiia
.~Mr.HOmRTON. 1 (10 miot Wmaamt. tam litit myself ill time jiositioumomitmiplogizitg fom
time Gireeks, lit any -wmiy. I 14i11111y Wimat to state fmts. I wims told by time Greek
gemteramti'im-elief tha~t If they vomaid wmitmake amit mritmmgemmemms wvlt time M~iles.
hamve somw sort of arramgemmenat waetvby they could make at treaty and( protect
ilmemiseives4 In failimmg back. tlmey would lie obliiged to dievastate time country.
Ilavinag timt statement fromt hint, I look It fomr ganteld that they dlidi buirn
%Iimges. They muiist hamve very genmeratlly riitmagedi minmmevmistitea tihe coitmtitryv
oil timeir desemat anid they mumlst hamve killed a goo I mmamny Tumrks. I knomw thmamt
at great immamy (;reek troops also were killed boy time Turks. iii of witom were
irmuem. One shldt state botha sides of the question. All stragglers had lhmmir
auariats cut. (;reeks mimd Tuarks bomthm were killed1. Amyioy that wvill tima
of It will see thmmt It aibust be so.
While time (,'reek% would ravage time vtiltmty andmkill time Tnrks. yet It wma,
nomte~ibx ~tiy a Stammm11lmyst'laiiuio 1m(eik fronta a1lay imoinmt of ' .
Mr'. '1'Ayi.it. flow liar is iti t'amsmymmam itm.%ties
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGERES.
Mlr. Iluit~iiro. I tdo isot know. I left $.11iuvi1iii on5 ti' iest oyvel att :11116111 8 or
11 Welock Ii flei evening. It wnis dark. si i e ould see flte whole. Liiio ('n3-
Ilograsllls'. I airrivedl Ini %then-, early Ii the miorninsg. Thle destroyer w~ent
about 30) miles ti hour. I think.
Mr. T.%viAoR. IUnt lte rout(- token by ft-e (liek Ainy k what I hall Ili iulind.
Iloiw fill 1%It itid~inga to the route taikei fy tile GIreek Aiiuiy?
Mr. IlowroTx. The asriuy vould not r'tre'st M at wity. Tuel( atriy fell liek
oil Smnyrna. ipissesi though undo went 4.vlois u (0114 to ('hesusi1. where It wils
covered by the (ireek lsttlesbuis autie eiiiark'd l tilitqiuttlt.
.%It. Vm.~. Xe'res tried fliat Iinrtl sills. without sit(-( z?
Mr*. IHoTox. Wes. sir: Ilie %vent siroieti Iby Cous~tantinole
Mr. U)us'iiis tlIN biurninug of 18iiyrna. wits there anyr ceilderale nun-
leer f British. itaiisil. Freitel. andt Asu&'rl-4i inmarines li tMe ilty? You15mail
flinit yon hadielite .Anivrivan eoloujo-alroeeted by Aisierirsis, ii1iles.
Mr. THOITON. rhe water- (ront Ig down hiere I liil'tlhoul. Here 14'leaesil
I( lipi5-- ivt ]tI4 Ifltip' water frouit vuiile fte panraillel street. 'T'e (olIsilas-
I,515 oil tMc panii1I4'l AsI t oil the vile'ner. so~ 11tht roll) flipi c-ees1,I'1iite wilehews.
lye rositee
ml thle -,Pa.
fit this. quarter 'vas tlie Amnericanli thienter. a larire heuflihig Ili whichl I told
thient they enould sleepl. reniaiii. or take' ir'fuig. I 1had it iaos-lne tun -.Intl
itheut 20 niarines there. I 1had4 20 lslueisieke't lit flit-' th'ste'r. 2 oir 3 Iii the conl-
-sultite. andh belw'iit 20 -Indl 30 doinge patrol diuly elsewhere.
Mri. TAYLO. Wer there ainy otlher Anwivan'tl iisriie' shoi~re
Mr. lioncox. There wvere at fewit-I tl'e iYasit, Wossien's Clsristlsen A"sovl-Ii
HIM. Which WON tMl1e41 With frig,h'ii'ell fue' ai III ere sosue fif tile-
wvi~i
hIdies aittarlied to the organsizaution. T64' l'se1Ies ,howtla great heroi. Tliere
wve somas flnt 'Istekets there sill the tiie.
Nit-. T.%vruoi. About hoew isssuny?
Mtr. Tionix. Feetir tor five. I slieslld think : nt iliore thian ui h". Thevre were
a number of min es at at utimurl 4 osr 5 ssihi. ut of 18e1Iyirn whp:*. e'is
.Ainerirgin college IQjlesitedl.
'Mr. TAYLOR. flow mny Id you have there?
Mr. HTORTO\. A odetachmvient or a 41o7.Cii or mo'. T eb0 nt l-e'ilaenilsr thle exatt
figure.
'Mr. TAYLiOR,. Were there aily 11ritilsi marines ashore?
M.
Ir. HoRTox. .Tiit ;I sonient. There N. the Standasrd OIil ("a). around the
quay. The quay Is Ini the shuape of ai semiucirlree. andfip tS standard il Coa. i.s
0e flit, endl of the iialf-nioolt at a small suburb between thip two pdaces. One
of nIII.-twei destroyers muoored at the Idel' of the Standaord Oi1 ('o. andI remialned
there.
Mr. Vmi n. Were there any British mrines ashore?
Mr. Iloniao. V1e'ry few.
Mr. VmixT. H~ow mniy. tin .%oul think?
'Mr. TIOsioN. t'e Were1-out (if faI-os- With the Turks. They could hasve
lauided :I gol inuisy If they hllt wanted ti). Nit there were few onl shore. They
were esigageel usosily Ini getting the 111ritisli colony together. T know there
wiss i very elsisguishel Briitishier who was a doctor' and had beenl in the
solodiers stroke lito IsiI- houze sit Buirsialat sil severely wounded- the doctor.
Tile lhrtshs e'onil asked1 ise for aild. Ire iqked( lite to srend outoinobles.
M\rt.ht.AuFsIn ThIs ~thle British?
311'. 11140snOx. The Bitisl esked iue, to send oitomuol'iles.
'.it-. lt.LTrn. The doctor was a BritIsli subject?
Mr. Ilonetex\. Yes. sir: lie was a distingulshed retired surgeon of tile British
Armiy. -isid was. there living on his pension.
mrI. V.vu-. flow inany Bitish marines were there altogether?
Mi1-.T1011Tox. InI tiII, city there were few. The British hod a dreadnough~t
thi-re. They ]untl several units. Andi the French and the IanR also.
Ir. VAIt E. How nsuaiy mueirlneps did they land?
M.
MAr. ITORTON. Very fewr.
Mir IT. A hundred?
Mil. H~ORTON. T should not think so.
i-. V.mix. Hlow many did the Prench landt?
M.Ir. ilowroxN. Tile French landed a few at the consulate.
Mr. VAuz.L As many as 50?
92 ADMI.%'*4I0N (IF XI.AII HA.ST IEUGUEE.
Mr. HORTON. The French had somne-a dozen or so, at the consulate, amnd Inside
of the Credit Lyonnais bank. They were not hII evidence very mucht, auit 1
should not think more than 50 or 00 strong. I did not count theml.
MrP. VAIEZ. Fifty' or sixty.
Air. HORTON. Yesi, I iltoul say so..
Mr. V'AtLEL.Were there any Italian murnaes there?
M r. Hoirtox. A few.
Air. VAiL&I Were there 50) or 00 of them?
31r. HORTON. Yes, sir.
Mr. VIL.. Were these different marines lantrolling tMe' quay tit :my iplawt
where the refugees were congregating?
M1r. losrIoN. Not while I was there.
Mr. VAIm& You left on what day?
Alr. HouToN. Sepatemnber 13, the night of thle fire.
Mr. ItAKER. idi the tire commence Onl Septemnber 13?
Mr. lloRTONc. Yes, sir; about noon of the 13th.
Mr. ItAIxsM. Do you know how lommng It lasted?
Mrf . Ilomwrox. It wats raging an1d hadl spread over a great part of the city while
1 waii there. The lust I saw of It wvis when I was Out On tmib ocean. How butg
it contnued I do, not know.
Mr. BtAKER. There were the Armemmiin qiurters. Whe IAltili quarters, tile English
quarters, tin( the Greek quarters. Diud all those various parts of the city jeiffer
by thi'( Ire'(?
Mr. HOUTON. It started [in the Arnmeniant quarter. It swelit down through
the Arnimiu quarter. spread to time quay, ant, through thle fhut residemiti
quarter, destroying nearly iti o~f it, mand swept on toward thle north. I believe,
udestroyinmg all the best irt (of tile c:ty. Tfie Turkish (ilriers were leaft intact,
ind thle Jewish quarters. wlml(h were awi ojff (j4wtf tit mimothunr Iirt of the city,
were not burmil.
.Mit. htasita. As 1 undertide. there itie thins' parts io thei city thatt wervu*mot
dlestroyved. the Trtmkib quarter. the Jhewish i duarer. ainthe tii'tamiilird i l iimoi-
erty.
Mr. HORtTON. The stlindird Oill proper-ty wits not destroyed. The sibmit Ii
whieht It w~as loctted wats not buirnedi. lbnt there wits at great et of pilla1ginig
anud killing In those suburbs.
Mr. lt.xvtn. Was that suburb Armemnian or Turkisli!
MAr. HOUTON. Mostly Ureek, and sonmc TIurks. Those sidlmnrbs sire mostly (,'reek.
31r. ItAnirn. Speaking of the Greek and thle Artnenhai, you make a. spietial
ihist metion. lDid the Greek aid the Turk have special quarters?
Mr. HouToN. There were Armenian and Greek quarters, but many wealthy
Armenians had houses also along the quay. The Armenian section wait maustly a
distinct quarter.
Mr. RAttan. Did you observe any particular intitreatnment of any poarticutlar
nationality or class of people while you were there, before K4eptenmtber i:11i
Mr. HloiroN. There seemed to be a definite lanm to cleani out time Aritenulauts
and loot and kill them, and carry off the (Ireeks tom deali with thitemait their
lidsure
Mr. VAiL. Was the American Comnsulate destroyed?
Mr. HourON. Yes, slr; completely.
Mr. KU.CrA. Was It Pillaged first?
Mr. HORTON. No, sir. The Greek army passed through Staiyrna for several
days In a state of extreme fatigue, and many of theta without aritis, anid
there was no clash of any kind, and no liarin done by theta. Whten they wvent
through Smyrna, they went through like beaten dogs. They simply tiled
along the quay and disappeared in the distance. Time last of tile army paisLsed
through Smnyrna on the evening of the 8th, Tite Kemnal troops caite on
the 9th and the massacre occurred that evening. Timo fire broke out in tile
Armenian quarter at noon on September 13.
Mr. KLECZJCA. If I understand correctly, whlen the nmassacere startisl thle
Greek army badl evacuated.
Mr. HORTON. Yes, Pir.
Mr. KLRCZKA. So tb at the Greeks aind the Armanai were sit tile nleriy of
the Turks?
Mr. HORTON. Yes, sir; the city was In time hands of the Turks.
Mr. RAWER. Was the Eniglish embassy or consulate destroyed?
Mr. HORTON. They hail a beautiful place andl It wats comaphtcly de(strIoyel.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST BEVUGEES1. 9&;
Mr. ItAKER. Was the French consulate destroyed?
Mr. HOUrON. The French consulate was destroyed, yes.
Mr. RAN=R Was the Italian consulate destroyed?
Mr. HomN'r . It was a rented building on a back street ansd further down
nearer the Point. Whether thle fire reached It or not I do not know.
Mr. RAKER. As a historical fact, were there not Englikh msasrisiei there to
protect and save the English consulate and Its people If they haid hauuled?
Mr. HOyrrON. They could net have saved the consulate because theremoms not
sufficient fire apparatus In town to checks a conflagration of that fury unt
,extent. They did evacuate their colony and got It out cf town, talsajg It
to Malta.
Mr. RAKER. And the same way with the French?
Mr. HoMTN. Yesi, a~r.
Mr. ItAicx. And tile same way with the italiassa?
Mr. Hoa'roN. Yes, sir.
Sir. UtAIER. Wits there any Isifoliiillei sent al tiwl:1re fte5ae~w~ 'ataiI1
ownSeptembler 9 to the effect that It wass going tit Aisir? lild etlser 41C
these consuslates bave knowledge. inclusding the%Asaer:van vs iitv. finat. youa
know of?
Mr. HorTON. The population uniderstoosd frims vertoi qinters that ftss-
Turkish troops wouilsd behave paerfectly ansd that there wits. iso iseed i st fear.
1, myself, felt a little eipprehientlve lbut I did iti tdo asaytithig too Spreadu :s
pate or exette manaay people. except tim wet the wso' of them together ass4
mnuch as I could.
.Ar. 11AW-1k. 18 it your ohsservatssas. froin the fact tats there wer Freslc
wsiships in the harbor with enough insrines altoirol. tissit til disa43ster visuhld
bave been prevented laudl It baeen dlesired?~
Air. HoiTwx. That Ia a questions which I do not carp to massaer.
Mr. HtAMM~. I wa-4 Just uiskitu for fitt. I dit ut wisast yoau ts) give assayv
opinison. All I witust Is tlit- faset to eorm,4laoitot with whaat ysni toald us. whesns
you 1ttrted.
31r. Uowl-O. I di4) not lielio-e r would better asasws'r that question.
Mfr. HA1mER Wid you see tiny peasmnm nualtreatteti of any of thie inblssihts.ts
'.%r. Hlowrox. AMssohutely. I slid: most lideoaui treatment.
Mmr. l(.%Kvit. Inajusd t aslort wily. tell lte csosusiuttes' wisast Is wits. IN) lhut
go Into details. for I just want at little Infoinatlou about It.
3Mr. Iloaro,%. Thie Tuorks have a special aaatilathy that usassuoits to it deep.
hatred for the A'rmnsiamns. I saw about 19(1 ohti usen with faces bleeding
front swvord cuts anit wounss Iniletedl by Turkish soildsierg inrixag111 ill fronit
of the consulate. (Ii either side were Turkish soldiers with dhrawnu laaiyonatts..
At tile easd was a bandmaster who would ery out "Hurrsh fur Khewal!"
Every thone he would say that theyv would sill cry tiut 16Hurraht for Kiewad V
These men went through the streets yelling that. I saw the refuts going
through towni staggering, some of them carrying their sick. I think if people.
lit Anterital could actually see those things It would give themn a more vivid
impression. I satw these refugees, who were formerly prosperous business
asuen, staggering through town, inasay of theni carrying their sick on their
backs. And I saw them troetd abominably by the, Turks. I saw a very
respectable old woman with a. Turk following behind her with as msusket.
He knocked her downs lby it low of hsi musket. .Sossie of those 1)(41111e in
that country lanve told sate stories nblout the treatassent given lay iles Tllrks.
ansi they would nll say. " Fear Goii's -sake, 11) lnt ssssathoul ally asnise. foll I
expect towlae ii luinesm In Turkpy againa."
Mr. VAILE. What kind of lacople wvere those?
Mr. HoRToN%. Naitlve-haor Atnerloras ('1t17,cs, san*' (if tlsent nuasuaget of a big-
Anterlsnn rovn Osse win' tile insanaer of a blur Americain toahoeo firm.
He told nip one tlny thqt lie had lust wituesseol soAnietaiuau horrible around
the corner. Four or five Tuirish solsilers rn up to atialArasestisn. eit hiR
wristq off nrtl thon splt his head open.
The CHIAMMTlfM. He did auot want anything sait] about It?
Mr. HORrON, Ile did atot want lis*aaaaie mentionued. Tihie head of a lig
Dutch firna. n main of great credeuce ande a gentleman thsat was not to be
doubted. He had a private yacht. He saw a lady andu gentlenasa, a Mar-
n~ed couple, with at tomali child wasilni Into the water. Wh'ien they got In
above their walsts, lie jumped Into a small rowboat, picked thein up. siase
94 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REF!'UGEER.
brought them to the shore. ]Ie asked the couple what they were golnng.to
do, and they told him they were going to kill themselves.
This Dutch gentleman took this couple w:tb their child up to the door fi
a building filled with refuges aind asked that they be taken ill. Tills wivs
refused, anti lie left them, on the doorstep to await their fite. Por this you
insiSt not blame anyone, because there wits an order saying that tilybl Mly
taking In an Armenlan would be court-martialed and punished.
Mr. RAKER. Would that Include Anericans, Englishnen. Frenchien. tint!
Italians?
Mr. HORTON. The foreign colonies were very uimucht rfaihl. Ii,-iss.' th:y.
thought that If a report was made aliut the Ariitislaits. it would ens(tasngsi"r
the lives of their colonies.
Four or five Turkish soldiers dashed til to the ds'r of the Aslier'('illi 4c'.lt-
sulate and claimed we had an Armenian In there. I think I haid thrie bll..
Jackets In there, sill of whom Jumped up and fixed bayonets. For a monintl we
cme near having the consulate Invaded. They found their Artsenilshll a few
nlnutes afterward Just outside and killed him.
Mr. WHT. How many Turkish soldiers were there In the army of occupa-
tion after the evacuation of the Greeks, at the time of this massacre?
Mr. Ho RON. I can not say. The general Impression was that very few catte
lito Smyrna, probably four or five thousand.
Mr. RAKPR. How many Greek soldiers evacuated Smyrna?
Mr. HorroN. We do not know how many passed through. Mr. Sterghyades,
the governor general. told me the Greek army of occupation was about 200.000,
but they did not all go through Smyrna. That wan for the whole district.
Some of them went out to the north. Some 40.000 were sent to Constantinople
and 30,000 were captured.
The CHAIRMAN. And for that the (Ireek olichils were executed by court-
martial, for that particular expedition.
Mr. HORTON. Yes. sir; for that, In part.
Mr. WHITE. You stated a moment ago in your testliniony that the Greeks
had undoubtedly burned soine cities or villages in their retreat.
Mr. HowroN. I do not know, but all the evidence is to that effect, and the
(ereek general told me that if he wis compelled to evacuate le would have to
lay waste the country.
Mr. WHITE. Do you know whether the villages tht were burned were villages
which had been occupied by Greeks. non.Moslens, or Armenians, and had been
abandoned in their flight, and that It was the purpose to destroy property that
would otherwise fall Into the hands of the Turks? Would you like to say ImI)-
thing about that?
Mr. HoRToN. I think somie of their hadbeen abandoned nid some had iot.
I know that in the Greek sphere of occuiatlion there were a good many Turks
living In their villages and working peacefully with the (reeks. Slne of
those were doubtless abandoned villages and some were not.
Mr. WHrra. Would you like to state to the conitltee something of the ]lalilts
said the character of these agriculturists? Were they the Greeksi? And were
they an Industrious, efficient. irosperosus class of piple generally?
Mr. HORTON. Smyrna wits one of the most pro-sperous cities on the Mediter-
rituean. The Greek element of that part of. Asia Minor wits at prgressive.
rather up-to-date agricultural element. The Turk Is a primitive former, who
farms along old-fashioned lines. A good many of the Greeks come to Am rica
and get new methods of agriculture. A Greek first Introduced thil' cultivationl
of the best brands of tobacco Into that region and had a large tobacco farm.
The Greeks were practically the sole cultivators of the Sultaniiva grape. the
best quality of which is raised there. When the Greeks were expelled from
that region in the beginning of the Great War, all those agriculturists, number-
Ins .g0,000 or 400,000. were driven out. Some of them were taken Into the
Interior and some of them took refuge in the Island. About 90.000 Turks, I
think, were put In their villages all along the coast, from above the old city of
l'ergaas clear olown to Lyidga, around the whole coast. They destroyed all
the houses. Some of the prettiest farina houses and villages that I have ever
seen were located tliere. It was terraced like Italian cultivation. They are
good gardeners and farmers. The Turks dug up the vineyards to get the
roots for firewood, and then made a ruin of practically the whole country.
When the Greeks landed In 1919. a large number of those people who hadh been
excelled. perhaps 50000 of theti, came back anti took shelter lis their ruinedl
hussilcs imil In tents. uid took a few boards to muaske it room. They worked
ADMISSION OF NEAR "'AST R*UOEES.
like bees until driven out this time, utid they lad restored a large pe*rcehtage
of their vineyardsg and farms.
M'. WuirnE. Ini addit:on to the religious and iI-I!a prejudice against the(
Oreeks mid Armenians, Is not the very facet that tiieie Greeks stud Armnians
are Industrious mnd. prosper'ous at the bottom of the Turks' antipathy and
hatred?7
Mr. HORTON. I have long thought so. If you gentlemen wll1 Jut recOlleet
Ttirkish history, you will find that the Turk io ilonlirogressive. People w~ho
have traveled Ili that country at one time and returned to It much later hatve
never been able to discover any Imp~rovemuent. It Is sat] that there has not
been any Imiprovemnzt (luring the last 500 years. The only thing they know
and have a genius for Is making wvar. From public speeches I have heard
made by isowe of the young Turks wvho have all education, I believe they feel
a jealousy toward the other races Ii Turkey by reason of thle progress of those
races.
.Mrt. Viintu. D o you know whether that Ii an habitual thing? A rather
general situation, for the Tillk to graft fihe foreign population, thle imanu*
fticturers and business wen, occasionally? I have had anl Impreson that'the
Turk is anl expert tit graft. The political situation Is such that lie bad It
wonderful opportunity to graft front [tie inore prosperous foreign populaion.
and that lie does so habitually ait every opportunity, and that they submit to It.
I at not t4peaking of Smnyrna pairtlcularly. but of the foreign population In
Asiatic Turkey mid Ii CIonstanitinople, and they suit to It because they are
a political minority and. at racial minority.
M-%r.HORTON. I think I canl answer that question, hut before I do so0 1 wouid
like to ask whether the proveedigs (if this commiittee are to lie laiblishel III
tue newspapers.
'fhe CHIR~iMAN. Tue(- inee-lngs are opien and.i at gooditsnny newspaper 111(11
are present. As I stated before, If you do not calre to answer, the committee
will not insist.
Mir. RAKYR. Wf'aS the property of yourself and( your wife, or either, taken
from you. or thle coiisiiliite by the Tiirk'sli Army?
Mr. HoRToNv. No, sir.
Mr. ltARit:. W11s th0 prpe y (if the, vonsulaite lulai~to thus Amiericanii
CUovcrniient taken boy tile Turkish Army?
Mr. HORTONi. No. sir.
M11.IIARKHi. Any of It?
Mr. 11o0RTON.. No, sir; not that I knouw Oif. Mly liroierty was :tit ileslroyed
by fire. I d1id iiot get anything out,
'Mr. RAKER~. hd'a you see or hiear of youing women allong the qulay beln:*%takent
ouit Of thle crowd andi their lieads ('lit off In the( presvir'e of thur- elrowd ati their.
hiead% ilropped Into the bay?
Mr. HORTON. I did not see that.
Mir. RIAKER. Wit you hear of or see tiny mal treatment of the wonlen by viola-
ioii lii the streets fit the hiresenee of relatives and frlenuls and lit Ilue- pr'esenice
of soldiers, botih I-'glish, French. aind Itnan, lin broad daylight?
Mir. IellioN. Yout refer particularly to the violation of women?
Mr. hIAKER. 1 (10.
Mir. HoRToN%. I saw nothing of that myself, but T ierd of It. ll:t I saw girls
who hind been violated.
Mr. HA.KFIL. Ini open day before Mhe officers? That statement has ticeeu made,
unt I want to learn, It lI)OSibie,. whetitem' W'th Anuerlenn soldiers anid niari'is
aid French soldiers and marines present. suich a thing could really exist.
.111'. HORON. SuchI It thlmg COUld haRve beenI P)OSSiI.
Mr. ht.wu. With these iiarines present?
.Mr1.HlORTON. 1.41101 a Illilug could4 have been, lit 1 di1d mlot See It. It c'ouldl
be i10oR1lil0 because thle bluejackets thn* iaillied were too few, nilt tfit.v' tush
niot Inter-fere, wi'th what was going onl.
Mrlu.RIt.u I':.TO your kiiowledtre, were anyl Or thiese( nrul( it, mnriii'i'*
'Mr. 1110ulTON, No,. -0r.
Mir, RVtu. D idi VOUiiui'' ii' IC-1'1 11.01i1tail'~o that kindl?
Mr. lfoimox. No. sit'.
Mi'. JAKEmm. 1111d It OC('iiii'M With Y111ylIniti liIeseiih. would You ihave IsvenI
li~t;Y to hav~e it called d to your aittemuhioui?
96 ADMISSION OF NEAR JEAST REFUJUEES.
Mr. H OUTON. 1 did itot see any of tile Turkish sokilers lin American uniform.
You asked mue whether It there had betua 1 would have known It.
MNir.ItAKEI. Would It have been likely, when You were there between the
9th and the 13th and when you went back?
,Mr. HORTON. 1 thluk 1 would hiave heard of It.
31r. itAKEH. 1)0 yout know front your own knowledge whether tor not the
Turks lit Invading Smnyrna used American anmulanitou and provisions
31r. HoRTOx. I do not know anything about that.
Mr. ItAKE.R. The U reeks Ihad possession of this territory, surrendered It to
the Turkq4 the Englishi were present, time Antericans were present. tile Italians
were present, anti the Frencht were present with destroyers. warships, and
initrines. There were tit least between 3W0 and 3,000 niarlnes present. This
was a war between these two veoples aid these four great powers stood by
and permitted thle 1)(rformiane to break (but, as You have dlescribedi to this
COntlilttee. Is that true?
Mr. HORtToN. 1 would not wvanit to say they permnitted It.
Mr. RIAKER. It w~its done~.
MNr. HORtTON. The historical fact Is that they were there and that It was done.
Mr. WHIT&. Would YOU care to MaY It W11s 1ot, a war ait till, It was a
iUlaSSacre?
MNr.HORTO.N. 'rite ('4*crrences lit 8mnyrna were not lit the nature or war. Thle
Grteek armny line left before the Turkiilk ttrools atrrived.
Mr. Wiim. I wankt to change It tO sAY1 it historical fact that the titig
did( occur its 1 have presented thtein, whether It was p~ermilttedl willfully.
Mr. HoiRToN. All thte timings8 we know Of dad occur amid the shipls were there.
31r. Winm. Ammdl the mecn were there?
31r. HoRtToNx. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHITE. Atid to have Interfered would have been til act of war.
21r. HORTON. I do not know about thatt. I tl not competent to Judge.
The CHiAIRiMAN. LeCt mUCask you at question. lid you lmam'- atity or mumch
difficulty wihm the vls~ling tf passes? for Aritienuitis aund Syrianms coining out
through inyriva murimg thle last Year andie it ha~lf? Did you Iii& wiore ittldlit-
tions thanm you could use onl accoilit of time qluota?
3Mr. HORTON. I 1111V no0t eX)HauSted limy quotal. When 1 arrived lit Mhlenls
1 itad lRt) Ot ilmy qtioi. lit Athtens 1 (1141ikOt ha1ve tim110 to USe thimeaUp.
'The C11AIRMAN. A year iago, ls'rote tite quo01t was exmimusted. did1 Volt have
aimmy dillicuilty with the vis~ling s.tuatIoun?
MNr.Ilowrox. No, -.ir.
'Tie umtiCmA. Your qluot wits niot exhimsted?
.Nr. IloirroN. The year before I believe my quota wits exhamisted.
'The to tims proposal to iduit refugees front at certain
Pu.maM~.lrelimnamry
territory, who flid after at certain date, Is the hil1l to tiake certalim actiont that
would4 31ttitl igtils lit immmmiigrimtt stileis her'e, iand amiong.- those tite 31
Arimemiatns and :%yrlans ait Angel Islanmd, Calif.. ind 30 amid] odd tit Vllis Islaitel.
These last naimmeil itave recently heemt triamisferred to Phaflaidejlmia, where they
l~t'i ite letm11in gtahttrittloitl butt lito initigramils.. Many of these 01 p~eo)1le
are Inimme, feeiele-iln~ded. I'uberctihtr, mnd ptersams suffering front tratchoia.
etc. Jhtat.' you anty views iwtsii. whether anty oif these refugees actually at
tile port. stutfering with these di1sellses 31tmdiiiints, Should mnothie 111tmmhttedI
now'~ 7
Mr. HhORTON. 'I'Iatt would bie at iersomnut ophitton. rThe condition being us- volt
deser.be It, I should think they would lie undesirable Itmmutmgraits. Could they
not, asi ii imamtter oif economtuy, be pimced lit somni institution where they could
he taken care of id litter taiketn lmie?
Tie 'iAItiMAN. Whit W411ld4 Vott do4; to whacit institutional would yolt sendi
thmeit Here we have amtomng time refugees that iave reached thle gates of the
tUamlteit Stautes it thur Putciflc* anid time Athlattic sides, umany who are diseased' and
uttitit Iot enter our country. Whamt would you, I)octor Leivejoy, do with then?
D octor IAWIoy. There ure, WtSI umnderstiand, only 00 of thmt.
Thle Ch1AIRMIAN. Yes.
i)otcor IMI5.1~oy. How Uiliy of these are disesedl.
Time CHAIRMAN. About 30.
Poctor LviA'toy. I think, perhaps, that IN il eXaggealtili, an14 liermaps Yolt
uvoul-I fimid only two tor three. Those should be subjected to the sainie law tht
affect other people.
The CHAIRMAN. Hlow umutuiy?
Dixctor LovEjov. It would lie altogethmer Unlikely titat there tire 30) diseased.
ADMISION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
The CHAIRMAN. I am sure It Is between 20 and 80, this sifting down process
having reduced these to this particular number, 61, at the several ports. The
ilutitof arises, 11What shallirwe da with them? Can you admit them under
bond, and can you send them arywherel"
Doctor Lovroy. I do not know whet the laws are.
Mr. BtAKER. Irrespective of what the law Is, you would not ailtmit them?
1doctor Li-vLJSy. It would depeni oni whether they can be admitted.
Mr. RtANKS. I left it meeting of rA1 men Just How thait tire doW1'i here In all
effort tto keep out1 one~ fig, but here you art- turning these*dliseased paeojp' looIse
and destroying the teatitl of the community.'
Mr. WHITE. Who jiroisoses to turn thein-looset
Air. RtAKER. I Hill asking the1qnlestio1.
,Mr. WITm She Is competent :and'a aa nswer It.
Doctor LovEyaov. loes this not bring upl quite at different qutestionl. Wh'lat oiw1
laws should dto, ats It seenis to lae, Is to lpr(Iiie for the inspection of Intal-
grants before they leave that Old World.
Tfhe CHAIRMAN. If you will write a plan to have that done, we will p~ut It
Into lawv at once. Call you write a p~lan?
i)octor Lovyjoy. No. sir,.
Mr. WHtiTtE. I would like to atsk that Mr. Horton be allowed to proceed.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you anything more to say?
Mr. 1011TON. Tu InP oriality of nations seenis to lbe entirely different from
(lie morality of Indilviduals. For Instance, If a person were sick and came to
you for hell) because lie had no one to lo)0k out for lii, you Would take that
lerson i uland udo .%our best for hlim. I li not believe lit bringing sick aund
diseased peolile Into tbis country.
Mr. ItAKEII. If you 11161it home Withi your wife, your sotas. midiiyour daughters.
and at man coae along wil.that snaiatllhox, you would not let bdlt ill?
.Mr. HORTON. I would not let lint Into the home. hut I would give h~lim ny
lost cent to provide for buhn.
Mr. Il.ticit. Thoses governnets tire inlakitng it rai gciici its 14) -allow llie.-
people to return to their own liomes lit Smyrna.
.Mr. IIOIITON. 'T'hey Vital no0t return there, I think it Is %cry evident. Them
Turks refuse to let then come back.
Mir. WHiiTE. Can yon state to this committee. if you ire informledl, 1114too
what the usual treatment of old ierswm~ Is lby their relatives At'( thli
mothers and fathers well cared for?. I ain referring to the .trileniins ittill
Greeks.
.Mr. IloitTox. Tfhe Arineniaza mid14Greek., are- flistinguilshed for ft! care Ihey
take of their old people.
,Mr. WHITE. I have lieard tha:t.
Mr. HORON. If there is anything oatl earth a Greek (or Armienianl will do.1
It Is to tiake goodl (-are (of Ihis pleopile. 'I hey. 'Seli Miotley. too. 1111d go Of t'r thella.
The CHA.IMAt.N. We light feel suire that If refugees aire admitted, thiey, will
soon1 be desirous7 of staidling, for mvore of their relatives, ats long as the suilhy
110od.. oitt.
Air. W~HITF. I shall proitose all inieniiient to) the seconat section of this bill,
In view~ of tha1t propi)Otionl.
31r. I loaiioN. (aii
llalwhs a systema of exauminationl for prospect~ive limnii-&its
before th1ey lezve the other 1.ie
111116f111ilia1 Wvilli the( dletills of that.
Mir. VAIn.:. Dfo you know ii what voluntrlei that is established?
Mr. 11011TON. No, Sir': 11ut I knu10W too a v4onisideritlIle degree It is effective. buat I
dlo itist know lit wha-t countries it i-, *'stilslied.
31r. VAIE I think you will find It Is establlishled lit otlher ilrit'sl territory
only.
Air. HIORTON. Yoti may be right.
The Cn.Anot.Mv. Anti Canada nowv Is not alluring to the class of people who
seek to conlic to the United States. She hits a population of only 7,O)00000 or
less, and shte lilts unilimited public land.
$lie sucveels lit gett lag at higher graudle oft lijnigraauts thall w~e do.
Mr. 1 B.i~.iecatuse she lilts pllty of good latil aind we have nlone left.
The (' 11AIRhIAN. It 11i19ht Interest those here to hearni that -. froml
Mlexico, liats ma11de the staltemlent tit ihs country would like to receive any
nllilmer (If these refugees. upl to many thiousands. Let that news be published
around the wvorld. andu' let steals. he taken toward lacing those refugees lit
Mlexico.
98 ADMI8S14)1 OF XHAII HAST IflKF1"ES.
A genlt'emtl) 11)4 Jd tol (411 tAthait (lt!e llitilhantinbawil iim

eLi l hcli m thin
114t41W1lim11 too take 5i.0W4. of thmv'se.
ANr. WVmrxi. 31ir. Vldkrey vium not utteid tit tiny other thne. andt I o.'k that
It ?er. lIecritom is through 31r. Viekimey tonly be imerilttell Ito givelm
islIie'iit..
T'lt-' ( ,'1Am.RlgAx. Atc' there umny further ciueltions tit ibe asked 31lr. Horton.
The4. ciiilittt' a'euissveie' tit ~2elkek 1).fi.. puilcsihitt tet i'e';O55.

Tlet will bie lii orert.
('i1I.itI~IAN. The clit'tiiititttee
31r. WVummr. XIr. l~ii-stion w~uants WeIake time huai tit 3 4o'hwk. nI should
like to' litve filmti heard iII'.
,rte 61mm.mN Very w~ell, let us hear la now. (live yeeur nmec and l.
41r1'5. Mhr. Weston.
STATEMENT OF G. K. WESTON, EAST ORANGE, N. J.

.1r. WVEroN. 31y mmile 14 Gs(. W.1.Wcin.m Haist ()rmmnge: traveling salesmanii ley
jer4ofessmi nitil Arecmem iajoir Ili filie Arumy. Tihait Is 4i111reimsumi why I inc here.
tinig that I wanted to) bring uil before this~ coinimittee Isjust it personal
1-171i1
mattter. I have iceemi lInterested it the Amierivna hAigoi bOjyH who leave families
oert'eiai that they curt' trying to g.et ii. I amlt it mue'ilicr (of tite Aiiirlrau
iA'geeim. I aim not speakling foir thee IkA-91031 lt I Olin spetkiaeg for soinme of tile
iiii.vifltlit11 'iiltO5. WI,' hlve lIn this room her' toiimy it young 1111111 WhOSE
iiothiermi 1114ister ire jimvi--
'The a~m~.N (hiateriminlig). Ili-for'e *voi get Ito thtt young imm, let us
seet whaet Le'gion. 1mys) .%oi repre'senit.
~,Ni.WKT1o4N. I linti i ntaemr of tilte Emmet Hvans Post, lhzuiJ.or, Pat.I un
eiesi'atieg thits yotng mnt lie pearticulaur, emilil I kntow (of otleta' cases whict
htave 4(41e11t. to my cittenttlon, traveling liver the country is I do. L~egion boya
who heave 4iiimle to) tile aild muild they hiave relatives overseas that they would
like ti bring over lhere.
The CIm i SIAN. Vr,11em1u1111(lie voumaclem overseas?
,%tr. Wr4sTolN. 1mm tlimse ctrilia (hatt we tire talking about aow.
Thei' CIIA1tlt1MAN. DO)yV011 Wilke your uppeu'ul to viiihircee tile relatives of ail be-
glom boeys wert, rilitim1 htilt whio put toat time muifomi amid served ili' Unilted
Slttes. (or lin hehalt of those from ity iparticumlar counts?
31r. I11
a i iilg
1si~ on1hieltulf of Amerein ctiem-q wvho camie frock
thi'e counrieis iiel this bill1 speelftienlly cmvems ib'. 'fiiyun O iitU1111 here Is an
"''Ie11,'AIRSiAi.N. Y011 (1ci 11ot mnakc' mil iel lit nehaif eif Pl'tmili-Americal
eltizema %%ilt fought 1mm time, Aimmy, liceilime time filet is thmmtthose P'olish boys can
brintg their falilits In because timt! quota is noet hikemi, ias I uinde'rstanid it?
1r. W ;t'nm. Nowv, time difference Ii time ijuacit betwcm tusa tor Poohmil maid
mm11lif el' tio~unet ry (if timt,Neam.i'.'ast, you will tllme], 1s conslmle'rnble. I believe
that time tWldu qimottm mssigamedi for tilt entire year for Armeam nuild Syria ait]
ill emfthese coiumtrm is Ilmimit 2,34) t s compuaredl with%Itu.la with maquota
oif immtwcem 20.00111 11am4l 30.404)). Niow it xtxmis thmt tim flit tushin quitmi wis ilot
hikem. midi whe iv e brimig til lilt trgmuteil or aimyleomy else bmrimngs tit time
mro-mimlmvnt ti1metthese itmisslittis sheutlci lie iciudled Iiitlia sort oif bill, If yu
,will refer to youm Aitisties you %Vill lthiel(limt (lhe ltmssi qtuctas never haenr
liven takeam.
Tl'hu ('m UIA.N. Yt's. bll time' Omimoti Is haiuil oin time- mumiler ct itpeopele of
certilmi ieaieemid ties imi time emimmt ry mimi a certaimi limte oft eius.
.Air. 't't'msTmi. Correct.
'lP (nAIMm iAN. sAiic your Arinetimim imtsle were not Iten' tint (fet( ditie id
youmr tMissin peomTeti were, It Immo; bet-u estamlillshec on thalt bss
.5r. Wirs'ro.. I see. Well, tle fmact reans that we hamve Soldliers who
feliitlt fiml timist cmllii my, ilumihave mothers. mid sisters right heie, ams tz
. eaielg inum. wh imieIm. it miuelter andiemmlser right domwni MtEh Islanld. lHe 14
wiliig tit give it gimamaily cef at t Imenisuiti dimlimirs mmjiimc' If they 4-4e1ilel and.
ttlier tlm luttimefimii sent lamb-.
Tilte CHIAIRMAN. I W111m111liik~ se tmeim-1i01 11i1m11.
~.W. wrsmoN. 'hmat Is just omic!thing I wouled like Ie, birinig eeut. timam tile Ammari'
Calt ion141,ait I11u11t. Will hlmmk Ill amlly smcim lireilisit luau amsfll,;. lie,ceehemes with)
it letter fromt his (own liist. snymag tlhat they will go it iamy length Iliorder
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGiEES. 99
to see that this mother anti sister are landed. This is one argument hitfavor
of the bill.
The CHAIRM.N. No; that Is an argument II favor of additional legislation
outside of tis bill.'The mere fact that Illsmother and sister happen to be
from souse locality that might be embraced within the very limited definition
of " refugee" 11N.1 i my opinion, in argument against the bill. lie Is not tho
only one who wore the uniform anti (kn not bring his other anti sister here
on account of quota restrictions.
Mr. WksiToN. We have never heard of any cases of that kind.
The CHAIRMAN. We have lad many of them here'. The Polish quotat will
be exhausted In another month, then we will hoar It from that on until July.
We had it here all last year.
Mr. WESToN. Well, I want to my that I have been over in tlhat country thre
years ago and conditions were terrible then, and I kuow that the 4.miltions
must have been all the more horrible during the Stayrnit llisaster, anti front
then oil,than they were three years ago when I wits there.
The 'iIAIRMAN. Ihow oag have the young tuna1's Ieoile been litEllis Ishnd?
1Rev. h. J. KAYA11JIAN . Kihl :I. (-lilPi*e
Th, CHAIRMAN. WhPIer 11s lit, live? We will hear hlim.
STATEMENT OF MR. DIKORN NAZAXETIAN, BIRMINGHAM, ALA.

Mr. NAZAE:TI.AX. I live In Itirmnlglunm, At. I have been away; I traveled
1,4s1 miles to see may mother.
Mr. WSTON. lie 111s traveled 1,4(M) nishe and tried to get Ipers through
for ltell).
Tite (IIRmA. llow old Is your sister?
M'. NVMEAiIrIAN. My :ist('r is 27 years old.
Tin' 4'IIAIRMAN. IloW 10n1g hlalVe you b)(en In te tedll|
iit( Sstes.
.ir. NAZAITIAN. SiIIo! 1913.
Thie ('IIAInMA.N. When did you go. Into tie Army?
Mr. NAZAtx.[flAN. In 1918.
Tihe ('IIIIRItAN. Were yeu drafted?
Air. NAZ.ItnlrsAN. I enlisted.
'The('IAIOIMAN. In 1918?
11r. NAZARITIAN. Yes.
Tle ('HAIRMAN. Witt wt re you dlstharget|?
Mr.NAsArETIAN. I Wits diselhairged lit1910.
The CusAIMt.N. Where 41uid you serve?
Mr. N.ui,', r... I served right hen' at Camnp liumphrey, Va.; Fifty-hfirs
EIaigineers.
Mr. WuisTO.. Il,wits itiJred in tlIt' kileliels, I believe. 8nmletlllg exploded
In tle kitchen antd blew his eye out.
IS. Naizaretills exhibited is ulisllrge fsi-Se the Army.)
The ('IIAIRNmA.. Well. I wisl WP coulhl help you. Where were yous hori?
XAN ithr;i.\*. I wits hrn i i Ttirkey.
311r. I ait itreshleet of 3k liffitret coul.
try. 1 behillSg to Ulleie SasIIlow.
Mr. Wt'sTox. lie Is is silsts'ait'ed cltizeii.
Tie ('esAllISAN. Vos h itsaturalized before he went hit.. Ite Arllay?
Mr. N.%ZAs AN-r..Nco I ihaive tiis Pller right her, now.
11t
Mr. .. Wheni wer( yol nt ti1'alizel?
M|r. N.%z.%k.Isri.N. In 1018.
Mr. hInr.i. lie was tituitillzei Is3 virlue of tl,lrovisius atlsthorhiig serv-
1'e mIlen tto le SIaturaliSei?
Mr. N.%zxtaaar.. Yes, sir.
Mr. WV')ro -. Ile i Isnarried to at .Amerian girl.
,1r. N.nR,A... 'To-uly I leave my wife and chilldreni 1.400 tiles to go and
acs my Itollr. MIly aotlh'r not starve. incle SInis needs every on of these
poor soldiers; the pmr sliler ne.lAs Uncle Som, too.
The sm. SitsnA.. flave you hlsen over" to MIs Island?
Mr. NAsAInrI.\N. Yes, sir.
The (7iSisNAN. liid you see yoursisother?
Mr. NAV.AIU.TI.N. I e'nnt see very mIh.
Thal' 41,IIAItMAN. Tol dild se4 lier? Sihe mlitghl
lie nltitltld Ic iay you a 'is'l.
Ie will it-eei, Mr. Veston.
100 AWi)M!SION OFt NEFAR VAAT REFUOIEES.
STATEMENT OP MR. 0. K. WESTON-Resumed.

4
Atir. WFbSToN~. 1'id wits illy malti aruntt Mr. (hlrian. Just onl behalf of
the iejgion boys.
iIThe (Ctmi-m.%x. I-iiiw you been down to see the S4eereiziry of L~abor?~
Air. WSTO.N. I ha1ve no0t: no0.sir'.
Thte ('v~m..Taike this tit n floawn these. As for tlip Assistanit Secretairy.
Who)isisyour iiixt witiiesui4?
MNr.WVIlITF I Will ('111P(K-tor Btowdlen. 1-4 lie ready to liroc'eedif
STATEMENT OF REV. HENRY BOWDEN, CONGREGATIONAL HOME
MISSIONARY SOCIETY, NEW YORK CITY.
31r. IlolviI:N. I voine p re slinply to) stale our Interest fin the loill. We hauve,
more to do 4 with~ the .rituinlotwt iI tMis country thianuany other of flte Protestant
gro,111. i1,ohusliy uteri' Massu any s44her g~routp. limeau-o1 otie-tiird tir ene-fuill
tii all flt-e Ariniint I iit-e -ouintry idi least utr. itiore or less t'imuut-et wth
us, .usa1 w. tilniik Wt. knobw~ sloniaeilbiu of Mustt their ft't'Iiw. N andu their pipsition
III the tIutter.
Thits bill ulsit miji'aus t0itus Is tnt t ittutter of inuilgrustiii, piolic. As fte
ilr tlip isieubers of lie votnutittee stolest thi morning, ItIs ntt excepiotoii ii
4'tooidheal soiley;: d'.thttely niuidoe th1.1.It Is sietititely ilutuited Is. ft-e Itco1e
it touchesQ~. id it-he urhad for Whi10h It 11 (400c. It (Iii'Stlot 3111110111110 11Itis
own (sus-ItyI.hoig-gitiite011 vou 50ile r ocotietit that culdt lie cuthlet it lirlivciple.
It is lout1 doswn 11'4it tineehtilg (if it articllar siseele cititlitit whIlth tiow eists-
III vtiult tsiH'cili andia Ililes territories.
.Nrl. lCi.KA.. IAt ]tile uSskVOU right there iI thiat cteetini- I wile tt
ask tis (if r.Vickery-arev yolIu.111.4011t41W11 wip theiter Ett WIWeI.*'
MNr.Kix.EczK.%. Well. flit- condilitionts thtat itaive iirseu here t iuithnot annual
sirestitinunat afftilis, are- they ntot. these persecutions and mtossacres?
Mir. Ulowiw-. Nts-luerxetiut (os und nluwsarres; yex: butt nto sulk thing as
tfil-; no; absolutely.
3Mr. Kiicz.%. What I mtean is. 1 thouightt soittehody tttliht salfer souse sort
of a solution. sonic sort of a lernlinueaut aini or base remedy for the reuuuoval
of tit(- cuuust-. No%%. (lire Is flteNear East rhf--oil otfer soini basic
reniedy for these. 4cut~nais?
1Air. ItowDNa. 1 think1 We ('41i11,1.ibtt I dlidi iot think thint wat% the sulojeet
tutnder diseuisit.
?.ir. HanczKA. W'ell. I think the votntiitteo would lie Interested. outside of the
littiedinte relief p~rolvided by tfil- bill, to see whether there is4any plan, tinky
remedy thint might he offered tiunt would remove those conditions oir at least
remove thle cause.
11r. IlowI)EN. Su ttlareinedy was suggested se.veral years ago.
31r. Ki.czx.%. Witt wits that?
Mir. itowmw~. Antd dleiitely finid distinctly sat down upon.
.%r. KiErvzKA. Wlizt wits thle relnedy. tlny I aisk?
Mr. Iowiwnsx. TIhe suggestion ftint Anterica shoatuld take lte responilitiy for
tiitge. III it farIshsol. I ''trkey.
,rite CHaA~IRAn~N. 114OW WIIs it gat down 01n1
',%r. ItANKKH. Let ]lint1finilsh.
'.%r. IloivoEN Iltit that Is not tite question under discussion.
Air. ItAtKER. YeS. It Is4. Give its your reciindtilons. We' want to know.
Mr. IlowviwN,. I dICnot3 want tit take uip the tinte of the coililiittee dlseuss~ng
itatters% o~f flintt Rlatute.
31r. IAE.Bitt we will take up mnore tulle If youf do uuot tell us.
MV. NI(AAJAIN. I wi cover that suuject when I address, the coinittee.
Mr. htAKIEs. lAt lte gentleman slieak for itself. le knows.
Mir. itowt*x. 'Tepese nett (4)114lhti1ous of tinigs have vomle, to pass it) A9ia
loeease thle attitude thant wvas taken at Veriuuiies wits never louit Into effect.
Conditions were nlowved to run onland ratnonl front bad to worse. WVhether
ainythinig else could have beeil d]ote or not is a question, of course. that must be
nitlthiiiu wiore tluitaa nisttier olfoplinion oai tite part of one person or another.
I do not &,ly that one won's opinion Is as good as another, because opinions
vary inI their quality. but It Is a toatter of opinion.
ADMISSION OF NIJAR EAST ]R*'tGEFS. 101
Mr. IKtrczx.%. Flimi1natIng tile political side. as a practical proposition, here
fit flie Near East relief: according to the figures they collected some $70,000.000.
The chanirmian hast made the statement that the government of Mexico Is will-
Ing to take these refugees. Now.' It hug occurred to mip that If It ist within thle
province of the Near East relief. outside of the relief that might he accorded
by this bill1. that those refugees taught lie transported to Mtexico aind perlinl'is
fRt In there very Well in the national situation.
31r. ilowoirN. It might lie. I can not sivy aimiyllig ilboit tnit, because T
neiathority to sctccab for tile Ntir Dist relief. amnoiI hmaive no authiority
htit)
III speak Air (lit Repbic of Mexitco.
Mr. K m.FZK.A. I W1t8 just tvctnlring If somne rtemed'cy filr the s- ition ight
lhefonui.
Mir. itA10ii. Yfom 1iciVi' aiithecfrity ito speak for yecirsel(. Whot 1tt youir view?
Mr. htoilFacN. Well. tiy view oin fliat lit s'nivljy I Iialveii't Sautlelet4-it Itiferi-1-
fin fmilte subcject icc exicress a lllol 411ci41 f aily value lit ]Ill. I do nott know
witilaei' fho'se pteole Iceinid Ito, trauserrel tic Mlexico. I do manot know Whiethe'r
311c'xico would ttike tlit'n. It itti nt're rumor. in iy micnd. I never liucaril oif
It 1u1til11 entered tis recelli.
Air. IIAKEL. If Mcvxiv wituld l(tie th1iemm. (lien Whlat dto You1Sa~y ailcoit It"
Mlr. ltocw:x%. If %[(-xl(-ti wtvoil fike tiiema-well. e'ventihlen there are othe,
tialiig.s to lit' taskela Into$ vonshieritlo. I 'culd not t'otimit mystelf to ip lilainon
tMat wo-fuld have aity imitt'1llvne Ill it. I think It Would N.' it Imiost emxcellemit
thla if' .AmxitI wvere. Ill a ctci in toc toimket' Iin. I i)imno know Whether stt
1-4fir ittt. Thiey tvOtild lit ilitic somile iart of Mexlvo. I hatve no doilit. I kttowv
what thety ore cihiig here linthi tlp
11164 Stest- 1111l 1 kixc1W t114-y fit 1ait61 tlip
ti'led Stiic's. Ti'illit 1iit1t11-r. ilclAvt't'. lit lim it i ll mhit101 Ist geciiig to ro,-'eve time
entir' Neatr HEast -shittail i. It Is n 1,111 too me1et tlip' coaiclitiim o1f 11 VeryV small
part cir ititi' icooe it'who ve bteeni driven cciii fromtl thiri homesi't. just tlinit
R-0t0111 cif tHoMse icecchclP Will) Wive beeni dlrivenmouit imi whot have relatives btert'
In tis country. and tmlillcamticcli lust lit tnucle before June 0, 19)24.
Their relatives must H lit pIositiodn tot make flint apphlicatilon hcefoae titt time.
av'irdhimnt to) tipe hill. It Is nmmllttr tit refers only. tnhits i11 sated here. tit
t'bee
5.W for perbails 20014N) lit-Oille-micchcly cain suy t'xwthly- lilt lit flit' iticst ft'e
nulimhctr is all ititdigii1olict Iimummmlir t'elli~t'col with thep iccluliticcn of the
t'nlte4' NaiteS. f0' illccaiil Ito tihe numbeiiir Wtho lime here.
Thme ( IiAIitMAN. 'T'litlt 11a0- lieiiil td abhiout e'vt'ry Imilgranlt thtit ever collie
Into flit' Unitec l taes.
Air. hIowitEN. Very trite.
'fist CHaAIRMAN. N11%.Wiltild el o cch~'t 1ci iliiI lug 11ilt to 5.tN(Wl'
.Mr. IlciwicrN. T should Objcect to limiting It tcc 5i4NK). yesi.
The CHIRMAN. Woultd you (abjeCt to limi1tinig It tot 20.000?
Mr. liolt'i'.N. T io not think I should; nto.
Mr. WHIiTE. DO, YOU tinlk the limfltationm Which tire written in tilie bill tire
seaslibie. praetktil limittions?
Mr. lHott'iam.. 1 think thle liltititthins that are tvriileis iii (lie hill tire nimic-
quitte. I do not see why tley should. ite iitit anly Wtronger.
'Il( CHAIRntMAN. 1114i th~e lfiuittutlolat Of tilie 11111say. tIaIYtimIIg shoiut lucite inch.
gile cl account Of it setase ftr iiitibillty to sutplucrt thlemtselvest?
MAr.hiowosxv. Not.
Mr. WHIME Ilariecl i'. Mlr. Chiairmnlan. time hill fit its ainiuistreitlimi lnust
c'onforml to tile lawh.
Mr. IIowUEN. Yes; nas I understand It, the standard law remains the same.
This exempts those from quota arrangements who might otherwise be eligible
and wl ie t relatives cif itiuhle liti this country.
A.ir. RtAKERI. Whatt ccrgtmitieoi dlid ycu mly voll 'it' iith"
w
MNr.Ilowt)KN. The (congri-gilI itiitl Hom Ieiit ' issiitiry Seociety.
Mr. RtAKERc. %titl what Is youir cictio?
Mr. iHcwOEN. I iii stitithtil tit chirmge Ocf lilt- %tirik Which We bave amaing
foneign-siceakimtg I-in'ple lin lte I'iiit'l Stalets.
Mr. Itowi*:N. lin New York C~ity.-
Mr. IIAKiu. Jumst Wiltt Is tie lie cof yccimr weirklo I wicutli Just like to get
thtf bcefocre I ask you it question or two.
.Mn. 14ikcon.- 'ITo 1i111t It tic this Arlllt'ainiti 1te r. weC hart' in thiti country
alcimt 17 om' IS Armteniain v'eugregtieus. Th't'Imfis inuore finns hacif cit till ti(
Armienin h'iott'tiait t'tllgregailettt tat lire li (ilie liltt'i Stites, anti we are
In totieh. whit all of flie others. Tthtese aire scatiereel fretn Mtttt115& tooti
102 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGES.
California. One of tile largest ones Is In Fresno. tinother In earlierr, another

In Fowler, Fresno County.
Mr. RAitxEt. Rtighnt out of Firesnmo?
Mr. HowDE*;. Yes; right out of Fresm All of these are large groups of
people and for thle niost part they are self-supporting chum-clesmei-sustaining
groups who are inamnaging their own affairs. I hamve general touch with all
of thmn. We know s.-onmetiing of their fremidsh: we know something of the
condition of these things. We have a young wonian working for its now on
Ellis Island, where we tire engaged In work with time kindergarten schools,
mind one of the teacehers womm we have there Is mum Armenianm fronti Smyrna.
Mr. RtAKER. Were the Aromenima sent to F'resnio anim F~owler frontm time East
here?
Mr. BowuEsx. Thmey went fromm the East; ye..
Mr. RAKER. And kept acuniula tint- mint)araImmrimht with~ timm those that lbe-
camme more Prosperous, and of course they began tit develop time eoulnry there?
Mr. hiowDEV. Yes; time group, Is an e~xceedlingly iarosirous Comamunity.
Mr. RIARE& And they lbrouglht otherr, with thmem to) Fowler mill into the agril-
cultural district outsIde of Frmesim: mmmmi yin m, lSee iee. lnng time streets andi
doing time work, time Hindu. thme JTaanese. time Mexiamn. amnd 111itime- otimers tire
practically driven out.
Mr. Bownv.x. But time Armeniamms nmmoumd F.resmno tire people whor am-e owning.
their hiones anid their vineyards amndm their omrca-hrds. They oawn A church
there worth $100.000. They paild $100.004) fair It. They mire, pilsIroms-m very
prosperous community. The sni tiing Is true. not t) flime some degree but time
same character of people. ait F-owler. I sp.Ient mm week with. time Amameniamn con-
gregation tint Fowler a year aigo last summnmem. so I know time details of these,
people and know what they%are.
Tme CHAIRMAN. How do time Arampieni gePt along- In New JTersey? What
work do they do there?
Mr. BownEN. They are engaged In the silk mils mint Paterso, N.\.J.. prmimcipally,
That is time lar-gest colonmy. I think. lmm New JTersey.
Tme CHAIRMAN. What do they dto In ('ommietlcnt, largely?
Mr. BowDmc-. In Conmnecticut therec is mo large nmumiber of thmen). There fimrc a
fewv In New Britn. Timot fis time largest cemnter-. I think, Imitime State of Coll-
necticut.
Mr. RARER. Why do you colonize them?
Mr. BowVOE.N. W~e do niot colonize them. Wi- dl" miot (tonnmytiing with them.
We hmmven't brought mtsingle Armmemnian to this coummt-y, so) fmmr mis-I know. ex-
cepimg omme girl who has gomme to school fit Cleveamnd. but whien these people
come they naturally associate with their relatives mimd people frqmmi their own
country.
'Mr. htAxsmm. You have them at Frcmio. at Fl~-er. andmI immve been tmrimmimui
there a niummber of tmmues when we %VeroInv-estigatimg other matters. amil what
I have seeni there years before saememed to be entirely elmimmge. There gremmme'l
to be ain entirely new population.
Mr. BIOWDEN. V'ery Ilkely.
Mr. RAKER. Tmm otfier woerhs. we amrc iii a foreignm country almost.
Mr. BowDEN. That niny be. Now, that sort of thing IN nt domn by people
from time outside; It Is time smem timmmg tlmt we wommid dto. For Instmane. I was In
time city of Drmesdeni before time war, and oi 'St. Jonlms Street timIPreslem you
would hmear as muchm Emgsh a-, voim would (einmmmmm. walkitig on time streets.
There was ain English and Anmericani colony of 5.000OO lit that city. amnd they
kept by tmnselves4 anti they went withm themselves. Any people will do that
anywhere. You cmant hmelp It. You taike amnArmenmiani faminmtly thamit comes In
here. ani their cousmas come. and those coims!n4 aire not going to Fettle a hun-
dred iules away; they are golig to get as irne to their owm people as they eall.
That Is all there Is to) it. That Is simply huimimmim nature. It is miot Armnian
nature.
Mmr. VAmL.:. Doctor. what pi-oportlom. moug.hy, of the Armnmian%. Ii this country
are farmmer-s?
Mfr. Bowns. W~ell. I dto not know. Tinere are perhaps 10O.*10 Anmienmtims Imm
this country. aind those wvho are Imm California are very largely fining. That
Is time largest single group, possibly, of Armenmians In mimny State ii the country,
the groups 1mm California.
In the East they are nt fanrmners too Any comnsideramble extemit. lmm ftom. in
Worcester, they ire engaged In wvoik fin the tmwii. huximiess of nile sort or anothmer.
ADMISSION' OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 101
Mr. VAtis. Do you know of any place except this colony here where they are
engaged in agricultural occupations?
Mr. BowDEN. Oh, yes-that Is the two sections In which we find them there
iii California, fi Fresno. Pairlier, 'owler, fnd ildley, all conparatlvely in the
same general neighborhood.
Mr. it.r.n. Parlier Is another place. I went through there two years ago.
just after working time. We slackened up the machine oand I talked with the
men that were with me. I suppose we saw 500 to 1,000 men, and I doubt
whether we saw three Amerlian citizens there.
Mr. Bowi s. Well, you will find that most of these Armenians are Amerl-
call citizens. In the census that was taken of Armenians who were engaged
in work in our nunufactures just before the war, 58 per cent were American
citizens.
Mr. ItAx(ER. What I meant was. we saw the Hindus, the Japanese, Chl-
nese and M51ex'cans so thick that they were touclnhig each other, and the
Americans were exceptional-it was an exception to see one.
Mr. BowDN. I int not speaking for the Hindhus or the Chinese or Japanese.
The CHAIRMAN. Are you fanlliar with tile refugee situation iII tile Sulyrna
district now?
Mr. llowisx. Ottly is I hter from it. I know people who Ive come from
there, and we are lit littimate touch with Armenians that come from there.
The CH. I.MAN. Are you fatnlihir with the refugee situation in Omstantl-
nople?
Mr. BOWDE.N. Yes. in that same way.
'riTe CHAIR qA.Just in the same way, but different people?
Mr. BowDEN. Yes.
The CHI1AIRMAN. Are yoU familiar with the refugee situation in Bulgaria?
Mr. BOWDEN. No, not directly.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you know anything about the refugees stacked up at
Marseilles in Frances?
Mr. BOWDEN. Yes. I know something of Marseilles.
The CHAIm. N. There is still quite at large number stacked up tt DIantzig.
Poland ?
Mr. BOWDEN. Well, that may be. I doubt it very much.
The (ufAsM.,N. There are several thousand in Habana, Cubit.
Mr. BOWDEN. I know somethhitg of Dantzlg. Poland.
The 'HAIRMAN. liteHfues art, in till the places I have named, and ltany
at1ore.
Mr. BowoiEN. Very true.
The ('|AIR.uN. iposay nothing of Itmu.zlit Itself, southern itislia.
Mr. BOWDEN. Undoubtedly.
Tite CHAIIMAN. DO you think the Congress of the Unitetl States would
he justified in enacting a law linlittVg refugees to the particular ones named
inI this hill by boundrles und dates?
Mr. lowurE. Certainly.
Tie CHAIRmAN. And overlook tile others? Why?
Mr. BowDEN. I do not see why not, because we are dealing with n entirely
different s'tuntiot.
Mr. CHAIRSIAN. If this solHer boy that has just come in here had been
born in Greece, and wanted his mother and sister to arrive and the quota
was exhausted, wouhln't hIs case be exactly the same as one of these?
Mr. lBowtwFz. His own individual heart case might he, but his own situa-
lon would tist It'. You have got to take the actual situation you have got,
not something else, it seeiVs to ime.
Mr. VAIL&- We have had a situatiM very similar to this in regard to Poland
that has been presing us for two yearm That Polish situation was the result
of the Polsh inasacres. wholesale nturders. and the destruction of towns.
Mr. BlowDEn. Yes: ttt not under the direction of the Government.
Mr. VAiLP. To he sure, a Government, such as it was, wuas still existing. but
that was the only ling that differentiates that situation from this. except the
added horror of tis which Is, I concede, a good deal worse.
Mr. IlownD,. But that is a great thing. It is a great thing. You can't play
Halet with Hamlet left out, and that is what you are trying to do.
Mr. VAuV.n. There is this distineiot theive: That there is a 0h1vernnilent still
remaining in Stynia-tlie Turkish Government.
31r. iowDEN. No; not it government for these leOile--a government of the
ineit who hi ve nurlered them, a government that is out definitely auid ubso-
104 ADMISSION (IF NEAR EAST IIEFIJOBES.
lately with its sword In handi to drive these people hiime the sea, anid which
definitely states at Jatusanne tilt its business Is to get these Artitenin-4i out,
and to get out every Christian fit Turkey. That is4 ltiti guess. You have
got no such situation In Poland nnd never had It.
Air. VAIs. W~ell. lte Pteople who have appearedl before uts have elitii that
they ii -1 a situation very similar to that.
Mr. iowiDEN. They never have claimed anly much Hxtiitiiiii.
31r. VAIM.s. They clainied they were driven (tout by tlte' sword, with ilmeir
houses burned over their head.
Air. BowvntN. Undoubtedly that was true.
Mr. VAns. By sanction of the Giovernment of Oldii country.
Mr. BowimN. No; by the perhaps passilve nonresis'ance oif fte UevermiuiilI.
That Is all. Here you have got thie dlutite action of the( Heverllelt elireteted
toward this definite end, and you call not put yoiur finger onl iine'ther cas-i
where you have got a stulilar conditoti.
Mr. R(AKERI. Is It your view that Aierivat should lalke tilt lte elidgeh tinl
imake a light against thait government?
Mr. BowDEN. No.
Air. TIKE. Buit what distinctioii do you uiiike. wow. lietween this 50"W) or
pom"ibly 15i.000 who inighit comec to relatives. andliotiI oilier imilioni andie live
hundred tliotisllnd that aire refugees?7
Mr. Bowow.. Whalt ditiereiwe dit I iiike?
Mir. RtAKER. Ye.
Mr. Jlowte*:x. The difference, thait Is made1 lit the lull. Th'lat i till. WVhat
I ani discussIng Is this particular bill.
M.r. ItAsFR. Youi i'eoi1he ildiW lirV llellig toil the gm'4)llllst of himnuinality L~a
protect these pteopjle, ande you pick lip 50(N) ande Vcll heove 1.7-AX.4XXI there yet
remaining uncared for. Now wvieire doe you get the ilstilie il?1
'.%r. IlowtuEN. I have no particular interest fit eilpilisizing the dihstinc(tionl.
Mr. WHIT&. I wosuldl like to interrulpt tile witness.
The
l(!u~o.x Let nipe ask one qiiesticni first. As aitimatter oif flict no(w.
would you object to simeplifyinig titl. wvhole thing ty reinsertioun lin time- flit
migration law~ of words whiichl wold uermilit the itludllsie'll of piersonls fleeing
from religious or political persecution. whether shown lby overt ilet or neot?
Would you prefer that?
Air. BowD.:x. I shoiluld.
The CHAutsmAN. You wvouhld he wilinig tit reopen the i'uited 81ates its tin
nsyliiii for thlt oppressed of the world?
Mir. BtOWDEN. Certainly.
The CHAIRSIAN. That is till.
Mfr. Bowo*;x. Vertaily I slicuici. lit( tillit fis ileit wiat tis-11
idli proposes
to do.
The CHAIR~MAN. But that light PflSIIY turn out tit lit, time essence of lte propo-
sition.
Mir. BowouEN. I tinik not.
The CHAIRMAN. This bill has undertaken it Ilintln o'f thalt probik asil.
the United States having experimented now for about 19I mloulill with it re'-
strictive bill, land when there developed refugees lil any part of the world
it disclosed the fact that the Unitedt States by that 3 per c-nit quota
net hat] ceased to he til asylum. So when You get down to till analysis, In.
stead of trying to specalize for certain refugees. yeat relil.e thatt If siuch it
hill1 were offered by this committee to the House that the logh' of the situa.-
tion would require thle proposition to be open for time refugees of the( Wvorld.
Mir. BowcN. I do not say that. No: I do nost think it does.
The CHAJUMAN. How can you get away frolm it?
Mr. Bowr.N. Simply that this bill (toes not atssunie tit all. lilt ce. of tilt
members of titls committee put It this inorning-ttie bill isl not at policy
of Immigration: it Is an exception to n established policy. tind) siply as-
sumes to be that exception to an established policy.
The CHA[RM.AY. WYell. If this is 01110 excptin. Wiii It ro1t 11l1viiYs lie Used
as at preced~ent for the very next tille there seems to lie it desire for an
exception?
Air. Bois It cotul be used as a precedent. logically, only when youl had
the conditions repeated upon which It Is established.
The CHAIRMAN. We hope we wvill not have It repented. but al refugee IS a
refugee. That Is the point- I ani trying to make.
Mr. Howaimi. But it refugee is not a refugee.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGOEES. 105
'thie Ctmasla.n. But the question Is,Axe we going to make the United States
sin itsylini or not liln asylum.,
Mir. Ilowi*:x. Ilnt thti im not thle point of tile bill. It you are going to nmake
tie tin examiple,. yo~u liutv got to recgnize my attitulde.
T le CHaAIRMAN. Will). I a~in diseloing lily oppossition to t:hiN jilme of It.
M1r. Ilowim:y. Thnat Isjilt excej4iti ilethiltely put as till exaIs'tioti. Now, per-
sotlatily. 111doittml Ieleve litotur p~resentt Imit~~grattion policy, but thaat Itnot under
fitlesill i mt under discussion ait aill.
Trhe 01ItiM AN. But t hetjtret 3 lier omnt. whkl In effect ended migrations
ful defiles thit thekUnlited Stattes Is it refuge for opplressted people beyonitti
lio.sile 3 p~er 4clkt lizasd Ilicmtn atcertain year's ('entsuq-aul the restrictive legls.
laitimi tilels'iiie have bmeen aisle toaget In .30 years' eifort-antsl 11w tIlls Ia pro.
plsstd tomIoe lit- first @,lemhu. of it..
Nir. llowimrx. This. however, is till ex'ep~tionail mlttter. and, so far its I can
se. ilowes nth ai ll cIon41ies under the htead of opening of tile' Kates to 1111tilgral n1.
Thae(IA~t~x Y4111t My tht. httlt yl still %'Ikitittit Vtiit Would have tile
1,'t1led 8Slattes tlite lisyluiam fi1r till.
.Nir. IIowIIEN. 1,1t11 Is illy townt ciltlilt wit sttilig lImwt'vi'. whatt til- bill
liroi~es.
Ahl'. Wit ITV. Your reaittettthmm Is that tim 1.111 would noit fttrnisth a Justifiaible
iulret"4lent fori tilt' faur-irtiwn oledution of the clmtatitian?
TIhe CH'tAIRtMAN. ItIs nomt fair drawnt IIl till. It NS thl, elitI stel. 11t11iIfWe
ir.' goIIIi tum s eaIt.
1 we light as well do0 It all lit onee.
.ir. RtAKER. WVily 114)*OU Call It finl i-Meelatiota
Air. llw. kceattise
tx It t-iliitly a1tsititts to heiImlie aal itself. T17111 Iswhy.
Mr. lt.%si.1t. Tihien wlmy vatli you ttilihe till excemtimi to let III 5.0W 114)jih' Ill
olistre-s~ mit of atttililt.ot itida hmair. awli what art, you gosig to) Io whit tite
ntimoam(i altti at1111tC.,
.Ill. IlowilE'N. 1 41o1t41t know fliat w~e itrt' goig to do wthl tit(, millioma tti a
11t1t17, bsut Imaiti6 atttoilatr ejiat'Stloam. Tle qJuestion VO fakr is (lt!i 1 Is immi
ve'rttei--
~.ir. Vmltt (lierimisltg). WViIfit atnotiher hill Ile presented it till tile tli-
ijtleati' 11tti1 t11illhit tri'*IIl'lilUs pesr litS tt~'f syimathy-won't tMait naext exreps-
Hiow Ine iort'seto,lte iii st the sametIwily that you folks tire presenting this mtIel?
MNr.ihowm.N. I slownot know whether it will or taot.
MNr.Vmx It htats heetn jirseatted before.
MAr.ltow.E.'. Itlthl%cause (ifPoilatnd. It hadl ievet' ibten lr.iaet #)im thp
Saitte g1,01ttd4.
.Ar. V'AtLH. NOt idematheatlly*; no.
.1r. iiowtenx. Wll,.that is till ituportatat poitit. '!'till Is extcly tile sole itoint
ttjtit which I lint resting lioy argument.
MNr. V'mix. Those cases tire ideical.
.%r. WtlE. I-inat thae gentlettitt's suggestion equivalent to saying that w~e
slicoalld never do gotod lest evil jny voitie front It In tile future?
A Ilowlln. Well, 1 would itot SHy that.
Ir.
M.%r. IIASEI. lnuiitaurily Itwould not be right to admit 5,000O tind exclude
-t miillion antd at hltl lit like circumstances, would It?
Mr. IlowiwN. Well, 14d0 not know whether It would or not. It would depend
titn the eircutstasnces. You hatvent got like eircuuasstonees. You adiuit vertaiti
15511114' Iiert ih at- it vertttltirt tattue That I111 tlhlit this 1.1111
dfes. It
tithitats thipso. whoii are lit tilist' (':rvuistant1es. It dloes not tidatat those whoii aire
nolt fi those ei reumntal tit's.
MAr.ItAKmt. I ktnow, but thtat setis to) he the strength of thle ltippeall to the'-
4'mintitttee.
Mr. Ilowiihx. I ai11 perfectly willing to tsiske tint appeal ott tile broader basis
if tht coattnuittee wants It.btut wha~t I tint itialcitg tin aplpeal for imow Is thse
blli.
Thet (?a.iliAx.. We itre trying to discover who wvillIhe till here towtltenext
uimpesll. We htave Wllt'4tiup ttgatist It quite frequently.
MAr.lloim x. I ni11not pr'oposaing any other appeal.
.Ar. ItAKEn. Wity nuke tue aippea~l so strong otid so direct for the relitive tand
mtot foir tite offers Inlike 4cireunistatces. who stand side bty side over in (ireece?
'51r. I~o~vaaix. Blet-tiuse It is at stronger tulilwail for time relative.
MNr. liAKns. Wily IS it?
1Mr. Ilol*:N. simplyly hiei'ousi they are relatives.
51r. htAxEs. And tltit lulolue?
.%r. llowiwx. TIltt lit Itself Itatkes itdifferent v-use.
i00 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
Mr. RAXK3. Is that the sole ground that makes a stronger appeal? I
want to get this definitely so I know where I stand. Is that the sole ground,
simply because they are relatives?
Mr. BowDzN. That Is the sole ground that the bill is interested in.
Mr. RAgMKL IS that your attitude in the admission of these people?
Mr. BowDsN. I am not appealing for the admission of anybody and every-
body who comes here. What I am appeallng for is the adoption of "his bill
which admits a limited group of people who have connections here in the
country now and can be cared for here. There are many of these refugees
who can be better cared for somewhere else, undoubtedly, and those who caii be
cared for somewhere else would rather go somewhere else than come here.
There are many of these people who would rather go into Mex:'o if Mexico
could be opened, but that Is so far a mere cloud In the sky. .Mexico Is not
open yet. It Is only a rumor.
Mr. WHIM. I want to ask the w'tnem this questimn: You have ex;ni'led this
bill?
Mr. BOWDEN. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHrrn. You have read it?
Mr. BOWDEzq. I have read it thoroughly.
Mr. WHim You clearly recognize that the supporters of this emergency, this
proposed emergency legislation, are keeping in mind the protection of all tle
Interests of this country; that they are not seeking to go further than we may
go safely and conserve all the interests of this country as we aplrec:ate them?
Mr. BOWDY.N. That was very clear to me as I read the bill.
Mr. Wrrm Then 3'ou do not have much sympathy with th!s idea that if we
canl save but 6,000 or 10.000 we should not exert ourselves to save any of those
that we may save, odd yet conserve all tile interests and protet nil the Interests
of tlis country?
Mr. BowDnzx. No; there are perhaps 5.000. perhaps 6.000-I doinot care any-
thing about what the nuniber is-of the people who have their relatives here.
whom tills b~ll would aid.
Mr. Wnrrr-. It haq got to be administered in colmpliute and eonfornity with
tie administration of the laws of this country.
Mr. BowDEN. Certainly, as I understand it.
Mr. ltAKm. Let me put this concrete question: Here is a gentlemn who has
in relatives over there at tll, but he has means. He has a home. He could
provide for three or four men and a family of two or three girls. Here is a
man over here who has relatives. You will pernft this man who his relatives
to britg them in, but you will not pert tile other one who Irl-s the means to
take care of them. Now, why do that?
Mr. BoWivnv. I do not know. I should permit that other one too. I should
like to see the bill extended to that extent, trt I am lint plead ng for aniextet-
sion of the bill; I am pleading for the hill as It stands, with as much freedom
mis we can get Into it, of course.
The ( tAIMAN. Let lin ask you concerning (ie phase of the bill: How fur
do you suppose the Commissioner General of Immigration would be able to
stand up against tills section 7: "'That If the Comnihsioner General of Imal-
gration shall find the facts stated In the petit'on to be true, the refugees named
in the pet'tlon shall be admitted to the United States. except that lit case of
atnuncle or aunt by blood the eommlssloner general may, In h's discretion.
refuse adm'.*slon If he believes that the refuge can be provided for elsewhere
than in the United States." How could he stand up against that?
Mr. BowDrzq. I don't know. I don't Imagine that would affect a great many
people n any way. That would simply depend on the ( ouraige tiat the eonilndls-
sioner general had.
The CHAIRMAx. That is all. we are much obliged to you. Who will le the
next witness?
ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF MR. ELLSWORTH HUNTINGTON.

Mr. Hu'rINTON. I sympathize with the attitude of the committee ibout the
danger of establishing precedents, and I want the committee to understand
that a good many of those who support this bill agree with them very strongly
on that point. I am glad to see tile coimnttee take tile attutmtde thit we ought
to inspect very carefully and ought to restrict Immigration, but it seems to
me no precedent Is going to be established as has been stated. We have already
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGHES. 107
established a selective precedent. That precedent is based on the fact that be-
cause we have a certain proportion from a given country in our country to-day,
we will take more from that country. In other words, because the people here
are related by blood to cert.. a people over there we say let them in such and
such a percentage. In other words, Ave have established the precedent of
letting relationship determine. It is now distant relationship and we are simply
carrying that principle n little further. Ve are saying that instead of be-
cause they are English and because there are so many English here, let in so
many more English; wb are saying that because they are family relations we
will let them in. I think that is a precedent.
The CHAIMNA.. Have you given any thought-you seem to have studiled (his
very carefully-have you given any thought as to whether this pmrticular provi-
.in will violate the favored-nations clauses of Ste treaties?
Mr. HUNTINGTON. I was going to speak of that. It might be wise to change
this bill so that it is couched in general instead of specific terms.
The CHAIRAI.x. You know it would violate the frientilly nations clause, do you
not?
Mr HUNTING*TON.. I think there would be danger; therefore I wouhl say this
bill should be couched In general ternus. Nevertheless It would apply In the
present emergency prilarily to Arnenatns, because there is where there Is a
great number of refugees. Now. the chance that we will have anything equal
to th's again is very slight, and we could Iidit the number.
The CHAIitIAN. Now, If you are through, call your next witness.
Mr. Vaile, will you take the chair. I have to appear before another con-
mittee.
(Mr. Valle took the chair.)
Mr. WHiTE. I will call this young lady here, .Miss Sbalnlain.
STATEMENT OP MISS ELIZA SHANINIAN.

Miss KHAHINIAN. It Is really awful for tr, to remember ny past life and
-cruelty of the Turks, but to make you understand this I will say that till
those people that have told you of the cruelty of the Turks are not exaggerating
the cruelties that have been done by the Turks. I am an eyewitness of this
cruelty. There are no words In the International dictionaries to tell these
cruelties that the Turks have done upon both nations, upon Christians, whether
on the Greeks or the Armenians. I say on the Greeks because I saw their cruel-
ties In Smyrna, too. this year, and on the Armenians front 1915. when they be-
gan; and I want you not to deny to do something that will cost you nothing
ant make 5.000 people very happy, and make them free. Why not d lIis thing
that costs ya nothing?
Mr. VAJi.. Io you care to say something. Mis Shchnlalan. about youtr experi-
ences with the Turks?
Miss SHAHINMAN. Yes: whatever you like to ask me I slual say.
My father was a merchant of Ketel. i Asia Minor, and we were quite rich.
I had five uncles. aid we were five sisters and brothers. and111ote of them yet
she Is lost. We don't know where site is now.
Mr. VAIcty That Is one of your sisters?
M3i88 SHAHINIAN. Yes: because she didn't know the name given her by the
Tarks. and it seems like we can not find her. We wrote several tinars to sec
if, perhaps. somebody knows about her; but nobody knows.
Mr. VAILE. When did she become lost?
Miss SHAHinIAN. In 1915.
Mr. VAtLr. How old was she?
Miss SFIAHUN AN. Just 5 years old.
Mr. VAIT. She was too young to remember her name or family?
M1iss SIAHINTAN. She can not remember it. That is why she got lost.
Mr. V.sy. Wns she taken away?
Miss SHAI nAxI'. Yes; site was taken away. She was captured by the Turks.
In 391--August 12-we were in our farm. We wuent from our city to pas: our
summer tine. My father was not there. He was In Constantinople. We wired
to hin that front the government two people caine and told us that we must
go out front our hone after three flays. And we didn't get the answer.
Aguln. three days after, three gendartues-Turk gendarmes--cvame and forces)
,s to coine out from our homes.
Mr. VAiE. Now, who was there?
.108 108
MiNs SHsAHINsAN. Mfy uncle, my granduncle, wits with uts. H-e wits about
60tyears oldi. We came out with horses and two carriages. We had with us
five ItorsPA aid two eitrrhsges. We (-uime out and we Asked, " Why aire we
going away?" They toldl us, "You must conme out fronti the Turkish terrn-
retry." We soid, "All right." We didn't know what they. mean, tint] they
told to uts, "You must go- to Konia." They%took us not iiroin the direct wav,
flit, shortest way, where tile carriage can go, lint they led tit; thsrougjh the
mioisntssin six dsiys. Theni one of them, one of the gensearines. came and Asked
nay clder uls(le. he. said that "Where im your b~rothier? " He said. '-Well, I
dit'st know." 'aNo." lie said, "you knowv about hilm. You uit tell where
lit Is." He said. " I don't know where lie Is. Maybe hep Is tit C'onstaisti-
implle: usneybe he 1-4 killed. We don't know nothing about him." And they
stonIedI isi and they killed hilia; they killed lilut there. We lost our siiwie'
silso, nuutl we were with my griundinother ande naxy mother And we went to
Konia. W~ell, the gendarmes go Into Koun And ask soilietlinsg About mny
father. We dionit know notthing about hins. Andlihe ileinandedl ie-ney front us.
We gave ii some pounds of Turkish amid lie left niy grandmother to go, andi
this time there was aniArnerican missionary ther-i don't rtemesniher Idis iaist..
His knew us hiecause say father aid them to feiat it chaurch over there lit tnit
country, anti smy grandmiother has asked liss. "D o you know about my son
anything. If he was tit C'onstantinople or wh'en-,*' lie tell miy grssndinssther.
"Yes; lie is here. We hasve kept him." "1 Oil." -lit'- said. 11hetnmust vcause out
isecause we Are going alesig. I'erhnpq thep gendames take off iny daugliter-Iln.
law, my children, and he must come." And this time they hasve written to say
fssther that. " Your mother Wantis vou to tossie here." and isy father lsit- comle
thetn Aid my grandmother suet Isim iid slit saiii, " Yon muist come with sin.
with yousr ehluiren. If they kill you. never mindl. orl let lucas kill you Wills
us." sind lie was obliged to coiie with if%..
We went front Koaila And again started to Byzsantlinm. There wats it boig
msounmtain anti It was lsiposmsllle to ciliry csrrisges (or to cairry horses. Aga'ss
tlie gtedrmes camne Asid cienineleel mssey fs'oii us. We said. 11We gaive fill ouir
1ss10si61y. e'Wir3thInig, We got notlilsig. lipe miii. "All right. If you have git
ssothtIsgr." Anil we msaw moinethaIiu 541 carriages ii'ti Arsienlniv; that hatve
tusii fromt Harpsit, front Sivas, fromt Erzerisi, Blursa. Therse were 401esirri-
sAges eoniisig smd( tile others were walking. rlTey began fronst .1 o'clock lit fte
evening to) lhk tlie nsi front us. TIhey pictked Mhlsitud they Rild( they wait
thises to snake soldiers lit the Tusrkishi Army. We know Mlt they~ Are golig,
to kill tisen. They put thisn awssy frosm us dowi ii the' valley. sand we'twere.
with fipt other gentinriis. lie was residing nts. At siislgit hep wass lesuling
Im uilswi Mie mountains Asid lie forced uts to leavre ouir cmrrim-igem "ill leave our
horse's sisd walk ens. We left everything aind we we're walkisw. We said,
4Well. where are our lit'? How shall we g.o4 Aloe!e ' Ile seidd. "Areni't wte
s11e'n1Aress't We Rentk'nesl ilih youl? Nt'ver mindiu. waslk oi. lint we were
hearing time shooting of thip guests said the eryisig oif the invii. siid we were sare
iioiit it : they were killiig our isess.
Abonat two (or thire'e sasntim ago. we weit' wialklsl'4 wit fil-eIsII misig uts fill
Mpi.ii413ieuitis. We tsiiusjs fiti 11(- iisotiiluis I lrtep or four daiys uisd tMens marchel
u's. waikisig fill. We vesit to .Mlemii M iskimis. It i.s 111-se1sintiis s1180. lu131ten'
sare ruiis oit mug ti'e.
meris' ''imi thi'y liertis tot plek IsN' girls. It wats soild-
sliiit. iue'a11 11slulisight. ls'u-aimp 11 wits dsirk. ande flist sliuautisg wsts e-onij.i frosm
the I-alills. - 0bi." s:14 ly ls~natler. ' Su011i0tiii19 hiass liIus 11s1111i." 111t We
dhin't know's wisit It was, stud we lueaii tint they are ple-kin.g flipi girls. My
ttlster saoid. " Voss issist wear thei detss of sin old ladly sisi luit lhiekin-ig sslsas
ye'ir hivee.-' I wis Just 12 years oid. - Let thesis not take you liwiy." It buegans
thle trying six clAys. SIx flas they gastlivedlip girls. After' all they (-sate to
east1.t-1111il,it little lilt of at u'sslsp. 'My eldler brgutlisr wass with its yet. They
tussleP 1isnel my brother wits oust. They said. "-0hl. here is A geiiteissss iloit 1ii
or 17 years old. Wh'ly dluhsit we (-stei hMl liefuure' " Asidt they iteli 1lilli Anih
tied ii issins and hide his4 eyes. and I caitle oist crying. I sid. "1 Whepre art'
you buying miy brother? "I And they said. " Never mind. we Are hasviung lissn
by your father." I linew that they are going tit shoot say brothier. Th'ien thiey
said, "1Oh. there In a young lady Also. Y'ou come with uts." I soid. "1No:- I ails
with usy mother here. I shall have her with me." They said, "1All right. you
can have her. Never mind, yost have your mother Also with you." But my
mother was uinsle to walk. I said,1"Conie. mother, let iff go together. I ans
Afraid I can not go with these people," but they are hioldinig their big knives
ADMISSIOI; OF NEAR EAST RtEFUGlEES. 109
In their hands anl they aire forcing utstit go with thema. I saW. "'11l right.
let mcy another comae within tie." We went about 40 or 50) steps. andi Iley Kail,
"Oi, you walk on, you oldi big holy," tol my itother, lentd shet said, *111ant
uabtlle to walk." Thley tildc. '1 Ohl, tare yoleuablle tto w~iike IM Uts take you
walk." Antdothey ;muolec tice knife upon hier boretast. anid site fell dlownc there.
I wats Just st'rmcttcltg iicr yitng.
Mrc.Ka'zc. WhVat Is file tteetl or her relating :11 thet terrible tilaig,?
Mr. Vm.t.x. We wll~ excuse you It you wish tit be excused.
Mr. ltRFnIt. IA't her tell hter stcoi'y. fThese things c.'otie. Yocatn not stlp
Mor. Ki.Et'ZK. Wat i11 they lit) with you thten? Jutst ticake It short.
31K, s4lJNlimAN. Triellth iey Jotit mie away hit a rotc-J well silocut 87#0 girls-
midloI it-iked one of thcemt, 11Why are you girlsq here!', " " 0," they mld, " we*
anti Itatiooy you tcae tcow~.Ytma would see what Iltjqeu. Sicce seven days
we art' ihuttgry mttid thirtsty." I saud. "1 What Is geoltag t hampeli ii usI " Andi
thety N.1l1lthat t ie rhch metn. tile Turks. mitt tilt- geacelarci are coming to plek
tihe liiitii beautiftul virls frotc htere, needt then we ont't kiww~ wvhitt will icappiet
Withc acs.I t'filifiittt1 1111411i1
fiotti't ys1.4(
tirsty umtid hautgry. We leadunothing
it, esch. mletn caftet' fistic' days they vatte tand took 15o or 2414) girl.4 mitd left thle
rvest or iiq. We were juast lltle-12 tsr 13~ years oild-tilci lite ugly, the honme. aind
mit'l kild of( girls, they tooki us atwauy tot lite river slele.. 'i'tet'e wits 11river. till
E1joicc'z1l4S Itiver. 11ctami hy ctue--otce'r gendairmies tued otlim t'a irkisc lK'olle-
accad1they Niguela top Italk. I ildct't icitow mie rurkish talk, tttnd oue t( ltce other
gtirs sud-i asked themt Wtat lit- they atlklttg. loetatuse, It wats it great ituttber
fof poe'. Shle satid thact it few oif thetm were styhig. 11Let imshodtot thict' antd
lilt'
1ollier S11.11c19.
" A IA't JIMtOlwen lit fit-Over." After' till they Ihee us
ogeilit' %Ville at1101P. fil ci'lt' Sid Ax for seveii gitls miad freac fte titlher six (it-
su'i'et gIis, ttecd (htey slte uis 1ict11 111uhts iti11 lilt- r'iver' 1it11lHwty leftthieti.
Frcopil ip t ither shit cof thel r'ivert tacte wot-i orfltip Turks-wcii mttidi tni-
tutu4 Pliy(Ilice rMP taitaghcol (of thet rols ode wlitttever they (-alit get
oe t4111-1t4
111t0l Nwil i it s 11c111 tooh itusstwiy frooaciltiollier side cofthe river. I said.
-"I hlcve itac44 iie'r. sister. .0h mie gi"."*Theuy maild. "' ()tc. tit-'ra mnid. Are'aa't yoll
1c111111y !hl Vilct get free frolic the deailthc S4ee. flti-. tlctrs acre going halit iirer."'
I stal." Nt'vea' icic. lilt mei flit- litlt% Ocerver.~
'They stal d: 'I No: We vac give yosiboretad acmid wctt. Ytn itre ,I (brsiaa.
Why dmoac't yottr. ('Ic1i+4 ecoiat accd save %-tic ficotitlec-i liut1'1. Se'.. we aire killing
yton: we it't icoiig ev'erytihca (hut we, waith lto do.,." I salet: - Nvve' tminde.
ii1oti11 sacyHitch things 1541'."
Tct'aa tht'y hall tivt %il le en. Wili at huoly. 111141theln f'oili t-t lciy 1111l
ismrsos wvithi tiea id we wetegool()iig tie. We' lmet at hig c'c'owti t1' rolot'as.
K~urd tciolba'. attid tlIvy oemlccaicmei ice fr'omc thetm. ovci they ocell lcit tot' akhoal
t0) et 1 Ito lis tclaccI. this. KImii'o. 8mt1ml they eC-1t4 htil- tool' mie 11i141fill ito at
chief or tlce kutc'oi. li. lic ii ic waty ie, his Icoouaso'. I rttmaaial4 tihee
siloom filte' yv'trs. I uchacil i'ttitmit'c (ltre' I ladthy diili lecilt-. (lii'
thatcg
that W~heel I Well there 1iie4i' tieto icffrte lcie tip Ili t Muisilatlac. Thle chief
wivc hcave lackt tael away. lie- wits 21ttolit M.4years coldi.Hei soledli' st'ccota
diay timdla heait% taketi lit-e nat' *Now. -44. icow%% we aic'e. loioweri'f tut we
('lilt fio ev.vtAlitg. NmoW i'l
ycctcioie 3ac1icot ite MtlIS4iltciacac :11mlycolc will bec
fret' Ill lietveti :a1tid lier' lit-to. tmid we -.4mll Iicok cclmc ypoll like icMucssicciim.
Yeot will lint frile m; wei ocre here'." I mild : "Never' iiccal. I haive lactard
Mmbohcait'l wics imt Me hormoll- lis moact' t' itWai.''" -01Ic." ite -44114." gi
i lct0l." 111ic1c1 le et mceiandatI fMull e flie Ml-ooc aciilai vicaitn'eacd t(ick lilt-
.%fie- tiliace days they c'ac14 ll'ect aigaili. Th'ey v'1114.4 c1i4.11c1cd Ilod ta'ii
0 lt-
ritof (of at little ciin lettd they sli i lat- lir'e mcidi crcoils doohcig scotcellicig.
Trhey sali: " Vileoli'e v4tt'cig thact , " I suld "1 Ye.%" I see- tlc-e'rce ('IcisIlim
ic'ests the-re. ilooit six cor sevel puriests they have lorcouglt hiltece. %till they
..,licl : " t'- 1ccoWis tlIi' MacIS4inicta : he Is lwowe'fi." Acce thecy lrtimgit themc
there antu .saild ** ' Acck lamwo~ ''tart' 4l1ol1ag," ftid theti1 they i11ull int1 thle 11111i4
iof thet pruiests. tafter t hey louit tolttal 'es tof lilt' liics, tacciticec~ly sucach
flv
XQepetite yote Pet'ing? Wee raniliePei tlag to~ycit' pri'ests. Vitcl vantitlemo
iingicot' ttlco ivtrftil Is ilt'-.'icsstltnattil. hi.. yoll Il'ecihsa' Ville will lotei 3Mtis
stilcaic," I mild:a "Neverc acaitac. 8ince may Parents have ied upon the
front tot histhcccty I alict perfectly killing too cite, bitt nott to~ he it Mloinl-
icteihat." MAni thety atai to eatt'c ealier. ' IA't utscclike Isietice oiahetr ftutl'.
lAct her Il tic) ilit-rtt. EB't'rylocedy wh'lo mt't's htr do cla icke uc clillet'eivae
110 ADMIssION OF' NEARI EAST RtEFrUGEES.
with our idles." And I -Ridt: -No; let imetilt, but not to dto such thimigs
upon me." And they have beaten tile awfully. Ko I Was sick timalt tike 1111d
they have done this to ine that timie that I wvas unconscious."
Mr. 1tit. That Is, they put those marks til your face whet you were
uniconsmcious?
MISS 81iAINIAN. Yes.
Mr. UAltER. Did they do It with the other young lad*les the saiIntL'
MISS SHAIIINIAN. Yes; there were six inore, young litdies there andm they
have done worse to thein than. to me; those pliti" oi the facee, on time lips.
allblack.
Mr. VAIl~a. NOW, whalt is tile purpose of putting those inarks on these
girls?
311-k 8flAIIlNdAN. 1so that there shall be no difference, Clars~tiam (or 3111-
hzaniiedan. They dto not know that 1 Imatki 4'iristiami or at Mohatntit-dan.
hctni-e they aire Muliniiedihii ind they hatve file (ustoill, their customs to do
this upon thle Mohanmmedan.
Mr. VAILE. All Molhammiedan women wear tile sautie marks?
Miss SHAUJINIAN. Yes.
Mr. KALAWDJIAX. EaIch1
Chief ha11 his ownVl nitirk, put onl his wives or com-
cubines.
Mr. VAimn Tiit Is what I waIs getting lit. 'Site hasi tile brand (of her par.
ticuhtir chief?7
Mr. K&LaIDJIN. Yes; that Is It.
Mr. RAKER. That will not cone off, will 117
MISS SHAHINIAN. I don't know If it will ever voitte off or no~t.
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. NO; It IS in tile blood.
Mr. VAiLE. Put In with a nepedle?
Mr. KALAiDJIAN. Yes.
Mr. RAltER. How early tio they voiminemice to imlulk young ladies and Moiaum.
meedan girls?
MISS SHAHINIAN. As Soon as title Is hont they illity do that thing.
M.%r.
RAKER. When shte Is a little baby?
Miss BIIAHINIAN. Yes. Then Once I heard thmit tlwey a1re going to kili 1ile
onl ncoumit that I ant not going to top a Mmdtttmedanm. I heard that because
there wits anl Armteniamn bigger thil tie, amid they have talked to her. Site
hasn't bcotne a M'.olmiinietlat hbnt She wtms mfmnid to tell thalt shte Is not it
Mohiiniediti. Every time they hi-t iler as they usedl to do ine. And site comec
In and said: 11You go away from here is soon as you (an, because timey are
going to Shoot you." I said: " Well, where shall I go?" She said: 111 don't
know. Go to the Arnietiis. They are' free. Tihtey tare niot uimder force its
we tire." I said: "All rgt, If I can, I shall go."
It was night. It was a very dark tnightt. There was a stable land I was not
under a chief. Nobody was keeping watch utpon tie that I do not escape,
because they never Inmaginied I can escape front timere for the desert. And
there was a stable that had a little wilndow theme, antd I Intended to go and
escape front tiis window. I make imyself through time widow and throw iay-
self down from tite window. I didn't know that time shepherd wvas 'ly.ng
under titat window, and as soon as I throw myself downt and begin to runi,
the shepherd get awake and lie began to scream. On this screamn tile chief
atwoke and lie come, because lie ham got 27 children antd 11
wives. I began to run. I tuned back and Saw titmit nobody was coining,
taikil I htegait to mmiimilton1 thle nioumtai. Afterwards there iegain scramimitgs. I
dlidn't pay any attenton aund again I begamn to run, and I turned bick lind I
saw timat five people tire coming on itomses. I stil 11 Now 1 limik going to)
die." Timey began to shoot, to shoot tile, gjois, andltI imave tint (.1o3k, It Is a
big cloak, atid burn tiili the sides,.n iml ins hair was all burned front time Shoot-
Ing, but not any tire catim any harmat to) ty hodly, lbut because they were ont
the horses, as soon as they camiie down time vitiley they caught tile and tiy
Said : "Are yon still resisting yet?" Anmd otie of them pitt ile tl the horse
andl I thrown myself (down froin the horse anid they tied mie frot here. id I
was oil tite other side tlied frimi tile saddle (of the hoirse. mid1( the horse wits
go~ng about-liere.I wits anid time imorse wits going fr-Omn there. They wen-.
dragging itle by time Imorse.
Mr. VAIL. Draiggl'ig you behht the hoist'?
XMiss SHAiIINAX. Ye-s. Tme horse wits going from there timd I wa going
front here, dragging upont tie stones. Whenm wet reached tihe house tmy body
wias just black like tis- imdleat~ing her' Mutck dress), anid I wats tmear to tile.
AD ISSiON' OF .EARK AST RE.I'OE S. 11
There was i chief of their religion Paid: "Do the renledy as soon nts yelt ran
to cure her. hecanse she op going to (ie in her religion. She tdidn't get Moham-
meda nid she is ioina to dile in her religion. aid we are s nful then because
we couldn't imke her Mohammedan." Andi then they put some medicine upon
my body. and six months I was sick In that way, six months. Then, when I
get cured. it was About six months, and that time Just was four years T have
been by there by the Turks. by the Kurds.
Mr. VAIE. flow did yon finally get away?
.11IS SV1AV1,1N1N. When the peav' eawiie over. iy brother heard that T am
there. nitl the English Army was saving the Armenians held by the Turks.
and my brother. they have caught him and tied his hands; was captured by
nn Arahin to be a servant: to he hi .servant: and when the English Army
has come to Damascus. my brother was saved by this English Army.
Mr. V.mix. And your brother got the English to look you up?
MiNs SKH.IINIAN. Yes.
Mr. VuIt. Where is your brother now?
31s.4 SUIAIIINTAN. lie was nt Constlntinople. hut I don't know where he Is
How.
Mr. VAI.E. The Pwlish didn't take inv of you folks with them. did they?
MI.N SHAHINIAN.. The Bngllsh brought us to Aleppo And give us-leave Is
In lie lied 'ross orphanage.
Mr. VAiI... P1.1 YoU have relatives here?
Miss SIA1I1IN.AN. Yes: I have an uncle here AndT came to my uncle. I
tlivlit I, ww& going aglhit to lie captured by the Turks. This Is the th'rd
timi-II-t third in.,ilasere I have been: first. In 1015: second. In 1022: and f
cinie to Slmyrna thilkin: that Smyrna if; the safest place. but it wasn't, And
the Tirks enie ind thev slaughtered again.
Mr. VAUI.X. You were ir, Smyrna?
MiNS SI.AllNIAN. Ye: I WAs at Sli.Vl'lla anid I eseaned from Sinyrna.
Mr. VAUI.. WVhen did you first come to the Vunited States?
Misq SHAIiNIAx. ThIs -ear. on November 1. T Ind on Ellis Island. miI T
wag on Ellis Island About three iveekR.
Mr. tAKr.R. Werp you in Smyrna during the fire?
Mis, SIIA11INJAN. For 24 hours, during the massacre I was there.
Mr. R.%xEB. Were you there on the 9th of Sentembhr and from that on?
MIM SIAHIN.AN. September 11 1 enme out from Smyrna.
Mr. lt.AX. You came out on September 11? The fire was on the 13th. And
where lid you go from Smyrna? You left on the 11th. and where did you go?
lisS StIAIN'I.IN. I come to Saloniki. I camp uln little ship. a Ireek ship.
the PaIrls. They brought us with wounded soldiers to Salonlki.
Mr. VAIT.v. With whomn were you staying at Smyrnn?
MIsS SII.INIAN. I was in the American college.
Mr. IIAXFR. And from SnlonikI. yoiu came where?
MIS SHAIIlNA.. To Athens. And from Athens I came here. Now I am
free Andi saved- in life. but my relatives, my nation, my sisters are still suffer-
Ing by the Turks. nnd I lmn sorry that you deny to help them, to open the
quota. to coine therein.
Mr. RAIK ER. Have ,oi any relallves back in that country that you knosw of.
except your brother. that you think Is in Ctonstantir.4ple?
Miss1SIJAHINIAN. NO: I have got only an aunt.
Mr. IRAlKFR. And where is she?
Mi.1 SHAHINTAX. I don't know where she Is. She Is by the TVrkC. "Rhe
was left when the Greek Army came back to Smyrna.
Mr. UAIXER. How old (I'd you say you are now?
Miss SHAHINTAN. At that time I wits 12 years oll.
Mr. IRfIEn. In 191157
MIsS SHAHINJAN. Yes.
Mr. RAI. And where did you say your uncle lived?
MISR SHAI.INTA,. My uncle is at New York now.
Mr. VATLE. How ohl were you when the Turks got you?
Miss S.HINTA. .Tnst 12 years old.
Mr. RAKR. Will you give you uncle's name?
Miss SiTARINJAN. His name is Vahanna Shavakeon.
Mr. RAKER. What Is his address?
Miss SHARINAN. Forty-four Lexington Avenue.
2590--23--~n -c-
112 ADMISSION' OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
Mr. RAxim Were there any number of young women left Smyrna on the 11th
of September, 1922, at the same time you did?
Miss SHAHINULN. With me?
Mr. RAKM. Yes.
Miss SHAXfINIAN. We were about 85 young girls when we left there.
Mr. BtAX How did you happen to leave at that time, before any trouble
really ensued?
Miss SHAHINIAN. The massacre was begun when we were at the American
college at the time, and Miss Mills, directress of the American College of
Smyrna, was there and we told to her what we are going to do, and she said
that It is going on like this massacre a few (lays, and site said: " I am sure
that nothing is going to happen, because so many warships of iEnagllsh, Italian,
und Prench are here, and I am sure nothing will go happen." I sald: ' Oh,
I can never believe the Turks, because I have seen their cruelty, and I can
not remain here." And I waid to the girls that were with Ine at the college,
and at nmldn'ght the American sailors were there and we asked (lie Maerican
sailors to bring us to the Italian school, to the seashore. ind they brought us
to the Italian school and there we had u nirse, ail Itallan atarse. We asked
her to aid us, to bring us to tie seashore by the ships, and she broiglit us.
With those girls are Greek girls, Greek girls that came with tne. We said:
"Let us aid the wounded soldiers and you let uisto go on the I'ntriu (hat is
going from here," and they sald, "No; It Is Impossible, because only tiet
wounded
soldiers are going olnthe l'alris." But we asked and we begged that we are
going to be nurses upon this shilp, and we ljromilw' to then that we shall 1io
our best for the wounded soldier if you will leave u% to go on. and they left
us to go on the Patrls. We were 11 hours on the Vcawtia. the warship Italian,-
11 hours, and after we got oalthe l'atris we came to SalonlkL.
Mr. ItAKEH. How lany young ladies were attending the Atmerican college
there at the tie you left?
MiSS 11AIIINIAN. )Il, lois of p~eople. Not tileg:rls only lout lots of ipeolh-
thousands.
Mr. WHITM. That had taken refuge there?
MIss SHAIIINIAN. Yes; they took refuge there front the immutacre, lots of
people.
Then I wet my mnissionary teacher at Pitrmu. $he said to mse: " You plroplhe-
sled this tine. You said that you never believed Ae Turks betouse you have
seen them, but I could never Intagino that the Turks can be so cruel. 1 saw
now with my eyes, and you Were right when you told tile you can not believe
them, because they ire so cruel. I saw It that they areIllore crl1i thall you call
ever tell."
Mr. IRAKvit. Do you speak the Turkish dialect or language?
Miss SHAHINIAN. Yes; I speak Turkish, Arabl; Greek, tad just itlittle bit
Kurdish.
Mr. RAKEr. How inany came over with you from Athens?
11s9KHAHINIAN. Nolesly Only I camte. Noldy eutnie with 1n.
Mr. IAKERI. You Just came alone?
Miss SHAIIINIAN. Yes; I nt sorry to say that I came alone.
Mr. VAILE. Are there any other questions?
Mr. WHITE. None, whatever.
We have another witness, Mr. Kalaidjian.
STATEMENT OF REV. M. T. XALAI IAN, SECRETARY Y. M. 0. A.,
ARMENIAN DEPARTMENT, NEW YORK CITY.
Mr. KALAIDJTAN. I nn ail Armenilan clorgynaan, now serving as the secretary
of the Y. M. C. A. for the Armenian department in New York City, and also
connected with the congregallonal board of pastors itlarge for the Armenians.
I wish to take just a few nlinutes to make a genentl statement about the
Armenians.
I wish the meniters of the eoattlttee will just forget about the Near East,
because that Is a goiierh, term. tiad just th!nk of Turkey before tis war, wdela
consisted of all that country south of tile Black ,geaand north of tle Mediter-
ranean extending east as far as this fluslinat border, down to ,Mesopotnalla,
Syria, then on tle Bosphorus taking IliConstantinople and that territory
which iA yellow on tie map Ilndientingi. That wns the Turkish Empire.
The CHAIRMAIN. That Is west of Constantinople?
ADMISSON OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 113
Mr. K.;%L_%tjjAx. Yes, sir; taking Thrace, going frontm Constaintinople mIs
far its Thrace, was Turkish Empire lia 1914.
Mr. RAKER. How far south did that extend.,
Air. KAI.%IDJiAN. Thait etemled as for is Syria, dlown tio Paiestime as fair
ams tile Suez Canail.
Mir. 10,Ksm. ])own to time Suez C!aalm
Mr. KALAIDI1AN. Yes; It took lit all l'ilestime, Sya, aind Mes if otamam.
Now, with that( area tof Turkey before time war there were fit round numbers
2.,000,t~ Armenmamim. Of these 2.0tJO,00t Armejulami people, 1,000,0M0 lived III tis
territory i.ndicatng], In the six Turks*Armmenam Irovince-;, Asmamar, Roth,
ilitils, Sivams, Ilarput, while time oilher million were divided, scattered all over
the Turkish Empqire.
Mr* tE. Now. whmen the division cine, Englanud took part of tinam
MAr. KA~D A.No; ii tile dlivisilon ii 1878 Rumssia took part of Armenmia,
part of Rtussliam Armenia. E0kigiamd hams no loart, (f Armenia. Emiglimm tisink
Mesomotama ajidu I'stlesimme; emanates over those territomries.
Mr. HA.KER. I SHY, Englmad got part of lte Arielaims.
Mr. KAAHAT'he ismrt of Turkisah territory which 4liid not hamve Armmenauas.
There were very few %ruieniauis lin MNesopaotitinia or loalestine before the war.
Thie CHtAIMAmmN. NOW then, Wiien Ithe qulotia was imuidie ump,flipe fjuota law, how
wats that country dilvidedl?
Mr. K.I-MIXIAI.Nx. Tei'i' oam was naude the first year because this was Turkey,
tis a%It Is shownm here with this blue color was Turkey [iaidiatiamgi, which
hadi only atlittle, 615I quotat for time aniual quota. Armimeaa, which is here
IindilcuthigJ as you see, was created by the treaty of Versailles, amnd time bound-
tiries ont time Turkish side were determined by P~resident Wilson, and was given
some 1,500-over 1,1500-quota. This year they changed It, because we presented
an argument to the department that while the Arumeniai that was created by the
treaty had 1,600 or so quota, us a matter of tact, of the Armenianms who were fit
the United States In 1910, '76 per cent of them were born outside of flhat terri-
tory, unit were born lin territory tha,-t was 'firkil-.i still, unit time people that were
timingg mostly were from that territory, so its qluota (of Armmenmmias Itusimm-
Armenianms, (lid not imeia time refumgees wvho (-.itle froin tipe Tuirkishm airt of Ar-
mamalim. The mlm'irtmiemt, thmerefoire. hias chammugee lime qumotams tis yeumr. anidu
mnaaue timg- umuim easier lby makiuag all im. formimer 'ruarkey' asr maltaquotmi fr
2,388, till(] by giving Arneii (itmms%ian-Arinma, which Is muly a sail ipart evenm
of the llussmim-Armmemla) about *230 mtyear. Now, SO) fair. till th lcumiitis, mimltm
D~ecembaer, every iti'iitli we haed aii trilhse With 4iimima lmrohalim'mms lumtil Jimw (of
course,
Time CHIII.-Ov. Nvow let lime as%,k viou, If imresmimath mildtum hemtamie that would
moralmime till of that territory Inmto) omme designtiom for qumota purlooses, emlline.g it
"Nemr Hust:' would It aili fit the situation of time Arnilman people?
Mr. NAA.A .. Well, thmatt, Will imicluule Ariniemi's, bit ** eami- Emi14," :mis
add.i Is a generic term. You cumn Include limthe Neair Eaust. Ilersimst aid pvirt of
Egyvpt; you cman Inaclude wvestrn %mrniemmidam or eorgia. lout, is immmal(em if fi-t.
this lill relates to amid tlie country that we it% Inteested it Iiis time Tuirkishm
Empire, the former Tumrkish Eiplre, or Turkey, tinat Is mnow belig reestilismutl.
The CitAiRmAN,. In your opinion, would It be possible to nimake it Combaimtion
softile countries lit the Near East, s~othat lte grand qimotai of till time countries
c-ontemnpated would he( emmough larger to considerably relieve thn witumaio In
regard to refugees of time- kind thmat we tire miw coammlcrimig? Is thmat possible?
Mr. K.ALuAtmIJAiN. Yes; but It will neat give anmy meiec qameata. If it Is lime oim
time 3 jier cenit qmio. unimes yiaim 4ceaimlmiam itmassimi with Turkey, it will amet lit-
('rise thmeiiumber timt yisi -ain imehuit. Trme timia of (Iireeve i. exhmasteil
the 111ab11tamof Syrims is exhaumsted: timi- quoita or ,Ifesealsmtnimi amiilissyria i ex-
leimmsted #is Othmer .%siat. so that lay enmmlilimim, them tumgetlmmr y4111m(-aim imietIll.
4fl'ise your quota.
M~r. RtARER. Tihie Turks have ectimme lhere mmidi
exmiustediili-lar iimmuat?
Mr. NALA..1Am.N. I 811y this. that wile the finotmu-mumw. tills 4i114t11 law inmiy
lie till right. liut there tire reramim things thamt mare,working Imirlships, and mne
(if theml is tis, that In 111) there were NOW.~ Ammiamemamms here, for e-xatiple,
let itmssay. mmii you give us 2..W (liotmi, bumt oamthmis qiimi there Is liothmmg to
Prevent time Turk frinai coming, liauset lie was bmorn there: andii they have voie.
The CHIRTMAN. Not In any number.
Mr. KALAWJIAN. Well. soine. Every Turk Ihant comes Is iuisheu lam witin time
Armenian%. Greeks. aild Assyrimns.
114 Al)M~ISION OF NE~AR EAST i1l*'LYCiES.
'.I r. Vmi t. There 1-1mua'tiies reasou1),thictasr, why flip Turk (141inot voue. 1ie
ts exc('iled undiier tlip general jirovislons tor tile law keep njg, out tlhse who ibe.
hlere lit or' lprsatlee iuyginnv.
Ply. iCATAIsNjs.N. Butt I ha1Ve knHOW:. of T1'irks thatt have beeun admsitted Into
111e 1111l1eei States.
Mfr. it.%Krn. ('ertailly they have.
M.Nr. K.ALA1l1..IAN. Andt they say. " Why, lte rellgin tenches tuat. lbut I don't
believe that 1Il13 self," 311i{d
they get Ill.
Mr. it.AKI:. Wit ha1Ve :1iilin*tt(41 during sill this tile, right olotag. haven't we,
siniething like 2,I401?
Mr. KALAD;.AinN. I have here the( stittistls lit 1104-2.327 ndinitted.
~'.fr. lli~t.~. That Is whal~t 1 mild41
Ma'r. l(.L.11IA.N. Ill 1t1W). PINf1: lit U910. 1,288: oi' soun. So. between 1908
staff 11110. 12.377 Turks haveYbeen ~itleilN. In "Pite oif tHIP fact that we have
31 h11wthutat I. 11'lyiliuhst efli not comle. I do not know how It 1-4.but they
aiihiiteil thinst. AndieI mloy say that it voolwi uny have golne back s41nce.
'hi'mVIIA.~IIIS.'c.A . iuilt aHnlnuite. Thosit figures. d11d you bring them til
Msr. 1(AIM.Ar.N. NO: t1his 1ha jiroliotly the first report that gives figures for
tlip Ttirks vejuartly. I have n report hepre for tilt- Armentluins.
Air. WI1iTV.. 1)it you hove them differentited?
.%r. 1ALATuil %'. I hiave it report of the Arinenhuvs anti it reptirt oi* the S.yr-
111111.as T take them.
Mr. lt.%xi:. 11--eptirate .midi Istict?
Mr. KALA.Isu1sa.'. YeS. Wr.
M.r. h(AIR. 'Tse Tusrks melaraiteid. tilt Arileisins w-pariated, iil lte Syini
sepa5rted?
Mr. KAALAlN. Yes. sir. I have the figures right here.
The CHAIMuAN~'. 'Now. thet largest number brought In In sily one year-Tiurks
t hat camsie to tilt rnlteal fStates hit any one year-is lIn 1914 ; 2.6*7?
'.%r. HI~Aas.11A.N. Yes. sir.
The 01AI.MANn.'. .nw, gong out were 890. leaving net. 1.800; dlorh'd. 8-
Nfr. RtAKER. Undeer this hil11 thot we ore eonsIerig flow. a Turk cuil conic
to this country.
AMIr.WIMi: I didn't know. Mr. ('Iiaiinn, that they Olast I them with
reference to race mid4 nationality ba0th.
T'he (mlARSIA.N. WePtire tryhs'ig to 110It 1141W.I think these figures are wrong.
M.Nr.11lxnir. We g'ot thiemi froniit l epiirtanent of idbor. Those fire tihe
Pepiti'tsnent of Lablor figures.
Thie (!f1Asnl~lAN. I know: but they only commnenced race classiflciAlton re-
cenitly. T suhpose lhe Is right. The nunthler of Turks In 12 years' tue Ins2,204.
Mr. K.ALArsuVAN. M1r. Chairmaisn. sice 1914 we have tile race class figures.
sudi I have figures Mlt I cant supply youl with if netex.sary.
Mr. HARKS:. Whilt territory was It figured on thott thep 11nited States should
hav1e the mnnate over?
Mfr. K.ALAII.JOAN. 'I'm' Unlit(41 Stntes miandlate. the first iiroiiosini wis that
thep 1Unteal Stattis isliili take n mindnate. according to tipe report of (leneral
1-orbord. over sill this country lindicant'lg on mail]. Including ohd Turkey. Has.
sisis Armenia. flcorght. mmii the country from tile Caspian Spai andl the MledI-
terrsineun: sinai the Idea was that we would have ail of IBstkt and wve would have
Coinstanitinopilhe. Stityrin. all thit rich territory which would have bieen co-
itoiicahly it Peitpiiuppirt'ng country antil n country which woulil have been
worth whvlpl for Anserica to tackle. That was tile Idea of tile mission that
went there. but lifterwards. fIn 1920. after the treaty of S8vres was signed-
Mr. HAKEu (Interposhig). That was the territory that we were to take the
miandote over: the United States was; tit takv- the mandate over?
Mr. 1HAr.AssuAN. Thast was thep original proposition.
Mr. IIAI(EII Abmout how manny 1*01)10 were Involved In that country?
Mr. KALAIDnJIAN. Well. lIn that country. If we hadl taken a mandate like that.
we wvould )lasve 11a41 ahout fifteen to twenty tumilon people-Turks. Gleorgians.
Armenians, Tartarv, anti Greeks,. ail Included.
IMr. IIAXEs. Now, thim wits not done; this mandate wvas not taken?
Mr. KAL.ATIPJIAN.%. No. Then. In 1920. when finally the treaty of %~vresq was
signed. this small Arnienta was created: atad then again, as you ill remember.
our I'reildent asked Congress to authorize to assume tile mandate over tHat
small Armefila.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST IIEFUHES. 115
Mr. RIAKER. Now, we stid not have anything to lio with time treaty of svarem.
4lid wed We didn't s1in It. because we land not decireil wair against Turkey.
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Butt we lint] Hi& imuch- totimle. tlhat ftim litiwerm_-urke3'
and Armenia ullso-sigmed It Bull they ail agreed iletilmtely that tile mmt-tration
of the P'resient of tile 1'niteil States Would lbe "tima 11tu4aiicepllme it) till
imigmator:eii: and so4our P'resid~ent was asked. amid lhe drew thle boiunaries. but.
of course, Cumstntinople. thle (iovernmlent or the Mum itam, . emteui intial signed
the treaty; luil then MUtluidaph Kenmi*~ia i CiniiiiO
came 1out sa reici-teci anoi
opposed1 It, antd to-sliy. its you ktiowi. tImatiks to the hielp that has been given
tm Mumitaishm Kernal Peaiat through out allies of Prance andii Italy. they have'
turn to jmecem the treaty of 80imres amnd haveetablismei time precedent that
treaties c1111lie t(Ii. Of coiur'se. we 4i41111 know Where It IN going to 14-11el.
Air. IIAKIFR. You say they violated tile treaty?
Mr. KAI.AImo IAN. Thme treaty of %'Lvreq lint be-en torti to IjimcS.
Mr. 1'Aii~p. Theiy imle anscull of paper of It?~
11r. KALIMIT.IN. Yes; they amuade at sirapi of imaiiwr of It. Thatt witN toile of
fll-i Issues that we fomiht time war foir.
All. BIAKER. Will signed the treaty of Sti'remt?
Mmil.K AI flUIIJAN. Ei-5glIti ih. JFromeie, Italy. Ilelgiim. Czechos10lo)vakia, Yamogo-
sli Int. (riece .A mmnla. and Tumrkey.$
Mr. %'AmK. lin other wvoriis. timt- sigailtoerlemi to t~wimebague of Nationsa?
Mmr. Km.u.mmIN. But nocw I wiat It) tell youi ahmant tle Aimemallin refugees.
Nemw imaniy andii where they tire. Before tile war we hiad 2i000t)(M~l of Aamealins.
Oif this 2,~.40.40 whmeni t- wili' broke out, abiouit 1)0I crossedl over fromt till,.
ici-mItury to Itassia. ammilto-lmy Ave imave abuit 2t1iA.000 Armetmlam refugees whmp
are ill Itumlam ArlIteflim, iand they asre stife andi they ore not masking fie e-imilt-
liere. Thmey nre there.
11r. it.Wmat. AI-i* they S-il ISli-l with flit- Ituimsm (itvriimc't ?
!.Mr. KAL I AN. AVVie.1t11tt Is Ime iolmy government limm1t11amsgirci 1Iimemi
isamtue sot far.
Mr. it.%mi. Th'Jey mm smlIslied wiithm It,
Mmr.hiALAImIIjIAN. TIheY arme simltd thamt the~y are sllmte.
'lime ('IIAIIImAN. Whimit IS lilt- jmrsm1VlmtP thait they amre ii
Mlr. i(Am.Am.iD-I. They amc1mtimei O 11'mmiiiiet sof Eliilli .mmiiiiir-ilim il mist
ErI-imi aimimd herem-i''mliealiimg i. Therme-' mmmre abe110e .m imliti1lm. at 111f1k lver ii
ililiemi Aramimilmis. 111i~riieiismidjelli. blt at elimlu-li'V (if It im1ll1l41ti (111-1 ii' ie.
thie'
Mr~' i.~. Ii limlt ilmit timIntrrupit you, biut 1 ites JUSt. ii imii Iirt',v
:ire nowmiv al stird. I. mlisi .1.4the'y i-imim lie, Witlli tilt' gove'rmtmmu'mt 11immi liet e.01miill-
Ilsms there.
Mr. KieAIII-IIAiN. Well. you0a11 -t'miiiiiiirtieamt 11m1920.) Wime11Ime iAmgmtc4 117Xil-
i11smmm s i l m i'55411 flei Titiks mllvaiiiii Ilimil Ilmet were-i still e'mmmigim Arm.'
mmiammms% aie hlialt Ilty were gcmlig tim ihave mit Arimiciiial. they We-ill lovr- Ilei imort'm-
mefihlisslill lamid %lilrtL'i.4 mi lk Nsisli iover there. 'Te Am'mliliis 41ii1 lomtsm i
mamy imi'lp fronti tMe Alies mudmm itmli'amgmmi' (if N-Xilisll 1lm.mt wmasit si'ssl alt t1i'
hu.immi time 1P1ISaislam '4m1i't .%-mmsyimalm 11m1 Itlitle 11i-m111 -1lahlieyi sr-mt trmimhis a116el
140m1i3MmslimiimltKelu i'amsia's re-c'imlititlive-s Ill 'get fmmmt a1mach I hey gillmout. m1ii4i
simei timeimsomlt. itIalssm trosmil tiiii'-ll AriilL'iiitli geii't'am halve kei l isau-'.
lerS
midi poori ltssim, stsiring liermsi'if. liam- immit fod andiei'imt1lies. in114t i'vi-i git-mm
goild toostiiiizm' lie imicmiit'y sumilmi I lms'm't So they have- gottenl 31114lare'i
gellimig at gooid off-Ill (mf ihelpi frommi ItiassIm timers', 1,1mel they hamidto i'k salishlc
1111mle4- time' io-ese'l il Imit I(smits. imetamlist tlmeim is lam eicive' Ir oi- mm iiismir
fsmlilmiei- 11iiiic' willi a4 etliip. ef 5-411m-se I hey Ilieamc to take wiiteit'r llm mim6'y
4-.i11ge't ri-cumin 18emrIIt Rumssia. loim.mm 111limit isliit- imam11 iillmit fei'sis ti4-mm1 allowv.
il. Wm. ''lme)- feel timi their lives asri saifee
M11r.KALIM.IiiiAN. Yes: 1i111IS It.
311'. HAKmE.Hi. Thisat IS 110t Ver-y i1111-11 'lmi'i si eralt IDl if evrimy citimem'I- ii1iaPm. voum
timiic for cimesam-tie is goile. Th,'lmiiri' fit, that you havre yomur tirfi' dicesim'l
imiolmil toomm i cItil f evecrything %-til stmiid fomrimmeamith1 is gomic'.
.Nml.Kiim.mmIiN. Well. lives i-mimi bumiil hmouseus, but limimses i-ama116t 11111111 hives.
Thammt IN cmDue' iminut I %vimmt te emphasize, thmat i at demim-im''iyll ummt Iintere-st is
mnmu-M 8smmimrem11e than proerieity interest. N.owi. If I till, tilmlAim-llm"4111 41'Itize'il II"
8tatc' D~epamrtiment. Imly Goevernumient, says it wiii proctect amy property rights.
bmmtif I have, iamotiier ill mister- time ciovelnmaii'mmt says. " We c-.iim Ito mouimtii."
fltow IN t[Is?
Air. HAKYR. Yout limemomt itipain to saty timat. 110 Vomm?
Mr'. HAim..iu1m Ni. immatIs. maiitis bill provides.
Mr. lIAKKIU. You are an American citizen, and you do not mean to tell this
committee that the United States hs ever promulgated or consented to such a
doctrine?
Mr. KAIAIDJIAN. Actions speak louder than any promulgation.
Mr. ItAKR. lint I want to hind you down clearly on that now. You have
itever seen an intlimation nor a suggestion front the Secretary of State. any
Secretary of State, ever promulgating that doctrine, but it has always been
the oihervway. strongly inclined and in favor of protecting the rights anti the
lives of Antriean citizens wherever located. Isn't that right?
Mr. KA..InMIAN. Not with the Turks. 'Tere are a good many Anerian
cltizi'ns whp lost their lives. ansi the Government lid nothing.
Mr. WHITE. I want to ask you this question if you will sallow Sit. A grat
deal 4of eliienraigensent Is now Ieing given to the Christian residents, foreign
resIdents, and maybe Chrlistin residents. of Con'tailli sqh. to lieleve thtt
they tre safe. flt they aie to staly there. That is Lord 4'uirzon's ohservaton.
and we do nol kiow al that Mr. ('hitl( has said. lie may not he correctly quoted
Iln the public hirints. There must be some feeling In the minds of the ministry
of these great powers that the Turk Is going to observe sonie honor In keep-
ing-that the Turk has given assurances that may be defended upon. Ihe-
Kemalist government.
Mr. HuN NrmN. Twenty different times In the past they have given is-
surances and they haveliever been kept.
Mr. KLAI..n . I may say that by the treaty of 1870 the powers agreed to
supervise the reforms which the Turkish Government promised to carry on.
and langhand separately, through the convention of cyprs. took unto herself
to give security of life -nd property to Christians: and If those six powers did
not protect the inissari's it I-W)i mid 1009 autu 1914 and now, and not even
now. that they have In tile armistice between the Allies and the Turks, tHint in
I.,1st,f disturlhIne. they suill linue the right to reoccupy the Arnienlan part
of the Turkish territory, yet nassaeres take Itla('e before their eyes and they
iever lift their hiid to say a word. Do you wonder that we can not believe.
thast we ('13 1nOt take hit, word of thi Turk, not even lit' word of ,1ulr ('hristian
Allies?
'i'he ('ll.iI-mAN. 'ihat Is a pretty gotd tirginvllelt l illst dlmirumliiint. Is
it not 't
Mr. KA.ADiJ AN. Yet, I believe that we ought to have disarniinicnt.
Mr. VAH.n. Disarsiament for the Turks first?
Mr. KALADJTIAN. Disarmament for the Turks first. that is right.
Thank you for the suggestion. [Applause.]
Now 'let ale give you the figures for the Armenian refugees.
Mr. RAKeR. What others would you disarm besides the Turks?
Mr. KAT.ATIJ.IAN. Well, I think what is good for one nation is goodl for iill
untlions. We oulight to lisarsn, all of us, and If they all disarm, they certainly
can't fight.
Mr. VA.Y. Wi'e had a youiug lady on the witness stand 0 nuiuil'tV agO who
told one of the iiost lathelct stories that we have listened to. and one of her
Intcles W1as stontd to deasth before her eyes. They didn't reqnfire a wI'almii to
do that. They had war before they had guns.
Mr. l .IAn.-IN. We ought to have policemen of lhs world. In Washing-
ton here we have Ito urny Ilt we have p~ollcemnl to mnke peace, so we ought
to have poliemen over there.
Mr. Tll.
hey generally carry a1 bludgeon andi a six-shooter and are
he.
ready to do business, as they ought to he.
Now let 11le isk you this liluqtion : Do you think the Alnerhiin Government
lis folilei to give the American .ltiz.ln protection under the Greek Glovern-
illtSit or the Turkish Government? Is that your view?
31r. KALAIJITN . It Is a fact that the American flag was fired at in the City
of Van. It Is a fact that the Christian missionary In Erfu was killed; It is a
fact that other Arienians, naturalized American citizens and Anesri'an-born
c.ltizens were killed ndwe took no action because we were afraid that it might
lead to war and we did not want to declare war. That Is a fact that tile
State Department wIll support me in my statement.
Doctor Lovejoy. May I say a word right there? I wish to say Just one
word In support of what has been said, if I may. If I understood you cor-
reetly-now of course I do not know anything about law-but If I understood.
you correctly. service, In tile United States Government constitutes citizenship?
"., CHAItBIAN. No.
)octor Lovzjo. Then I misunderstood that.
Tie CtAIRMAN. It constitutes a preferred step it ol)taining citizenship.
Doctor Lovruoy. I was going to say this, that while I was in Smyrna, tie
last day I was in Smyrna. for the week that I was there, I had noticed a
young man who spoke good English, standing in front of our rel!cf house.
The relief house was next door to the American consulate and he was used
as an interpreter between the Americans. who were helping these people-
that is, the soldiers. I mean, and the sailors and the relief workers, and lie
was a good interpreter and I didn't know who he was; I knew he helped
me and I asked hint about it, and the last day he was there he came In and
sald to me: "I have served 13 months In lite American Army; I was in
the United States and I served in the army 13 months, and now tie Turks
are golng to take tie." I tried to see the consul find tried to get some sort
of protection for him but I could not get it.
Mr. HIAKE. Now (o you know, taking that fact to be true, lie and he alone
is to blame, because during the war in every cantonment and in every place
where there were 20 men. there was an agent sent to these men to have them
naturalized, find we passed a law so that lie (ul be naturalized without any
trouble on earth.
Doctor JovyyoY. Perhalms lie did not know about It.
Mr. RAKER. The trouble of It Is they all knew it when they wanted to know.
Doctor Lovvjoy. I know at any rate that is what happened. I went with
him to see the American consul, and the consul said he could not protect
him. That was the 29Ith of September, and when I went away lie was still
stnndlng there and he was probably taken by the Turks. I simply wanted
to state that.
The CHAnRMAN. Did yon get his name?
Doctor LovY.oNy. No: but I will tell you who couhl tell you more about him
than I. I called on Mr. Morris, who was the publicity man for tle Near
East Relief, to examine his panrs, because lie took papers front his pocket
to show that lie Was a soldier.
The CtiRStAN. leAt 1his W11nmhe reported to the State Departnent. and let
hln remember till%, that the trouble we have had in the United States is
that aliens get their first papers and assume they have got citizenship. Now
this man served In the Army and assumed that he was a citizen, but lie had
certain stels to perform. very simple ones, in order to make hu it citizen.
Mr. lAK(ER. Before you leave that I want to ask you this question: During
youir experience over there, didn't you find that the Amerieit citizen was
protected and his rights looked after by his Glovernment?
actorr Lovrioy. What is the stltus of the child born in the United States?
The (HAIRMAN. lie i it: American citizen.
Doctor I,ovtptoY. Then I will say that their r'glits were not looked after,
hiecntis sontu of the children who were there wilth those (reeks tld beeil horn
It, the l'nited States, aid tiey were not protected.
'te Cut.x . Most of Ohiose countries. In spite of the fact that we give
cilizeimilp to those born here. of other nations, reserve the dual nationality
or tie parents. I think (ireece nnd nearly all the other countries deny, whean
thy wnitt to eny it. that tile notional of their country ttay expatriate himself
its lie pleases. so they always regard him as their citizen, ind we have no way.
w, have no registration, and the aliens Just Jtp up oil their hind legs aind
yell igii'inst the registration iif lhe t'lited States. and we have tn way of
finding those children or knowing they were born in tile United States, all
becallst. of isle conduct of tille licit countries and their nationals lit tis country
who do 10o1become cltiizels.
1Doctor LovwJ4v. I snll not pmithig liy bltue I am merely reciting in
icident.
The, ('tIAINIIAN. ioli IMi .I'usl
touched otilt lie on thtig tait iakes the int-
1011 l'ioll prolvlia No hnard.
Dtoetr Lovri.oy. I knew of o11e family wi're several children were iornt in
loclester. N. Y.. lht were i (hat group.
Mr. IARIMti. It wothd be quite difficult. under eireUinstti(tcs like you hIave
des(.rllied, to ileterlitte whether the chld was born intAimerica, or not, even If
flie liretils consented to registration.
Doctor Lovnioy. Yes, sir; and14 it was quite Impossible to say, on account
of that great stress{ .
118 ADMISSION OF NF.AI EAST REFUGKIEES.
Mr. RAKER. But tis gentleman rather started to make some damaging re-
flectlons on our country and I was a little afraid that he was go.ng rather
far afield.
Now let me ask you this question: Isn't this the situation, taking the state-
meat that was given this morning by our Consul General Horton, with other
facts that we know, that it is a sort of neglect by the various governments,
particularly the four named, that has brought about this difficulty in Smyrna?
Doctor Lovajoy. I should hate to go into that subject, you know. I cnn
state very brielly what I think created the situation. It was created In-
evitably by the actions and reactions of the Christian nations of the world.
The munitions were supplied to those people by the Christian nations, and then
tile Chrlstlans held up their hands after all the soldiers were gone and allowed
the Turks to reek vengeance on Innocent people.
Mr. RAxER. They walked off and left them there, Is that right?
Doctor Lovy:joy. They did not do anything.
The CH.%ItIIAN. Just name the Christian nations of the world, please. You
charge that against the Chr.stian nations of the worll and you want tolet It
stand that way, do you?
Doctor LovoyTO. I would qualify it it this way: The outstanding, strong
Christian nations of the world-
Mr. RAKEM. Just one other question. Thils Is not it new ti'ng. This his been
going on stow for centuries, has It ijot?
Doctor Lovsjoy. No; this went on-
Mr. RAKE (interposing). No. Not this lmrticular iniu s're. but tilesante
kind and character, maybe not so large, but the trouble between the Christians
and the Turks has bee going on as far its we olin read back alhosty
Doctor Lovsjoy. Oh, you are putting tile question so that you are inking"
it hard for me to answer-but I wait to say tills: Yol klnow it is Inmpossible
to answer your question exactly, because you are itlawyer nd you are puttinguz
forth qustions that bring forth a certain answer, but I will say this that so
far as the main thing was concerned, tile destruction of Smuyrna and the suf-
ferh'g that resulted front that destruction of Christian lIeople Is the greatest
and utost terrible thing li all the history of Christian inartyrlion. Thters, Is
iiothlg like it and n1o comparison call lie drawn with any other thing lhathtis
ever happened.
Mr. RAKEn. Now, that will be read In the record here. mid 1 wat! yost
to bear in mind what has occurred in years gone by illrelation to this sait
thing, when almost three times as nainy Imople were deported and1111 altered
as were massacred in this Instance.
l)oct' r Lovxiov. I aits speaking of one city, one happening. I 1an1 not speakilig
tiflolg vars of tinie; I nut speak'lng of olle happen log.
Mr. WuITV. I wold like to ask tills question. loetor: Is It not proler to
Indicate that the United States slipis 1ia4 the (reek shlps bad ,!ota, till they
could to relieve the sitlltlion by transliorting those vi.tinis of fhe ire?
Doctor Lovmjoy. While the tire wts oil, the ships of tilt- unitedd States and
other ships took away some of the Ieople. but afterwntils as son as tile fire
was over, they all got orders not to take any more. and .o they were uot taking
tiy more, and they just stayed there.
The CHAIRMAN. Did the UnIted States ships get orders nt to take tiny for'?
Doctor Lovriov. I don't know whether titey had orders, bit they quit.
The CHAtUMAx. To your own knowledge?
iPoetor Lov oy. To ity own ktowhedg-e. They were not taking themt. ini
they were sending aek nnr refugee whos'swnimu out to)the ship. aift"er a ci',-
ta'n time.
'ile CHAIRMAN. NOW \vasit 3t tihiltte. If we hlopl 1his bill mi1luake itlaw
of it. will we not be 'n the Paine pslistion. lt :nlilti, Iro:ller settle. that It one
t'collesttwho Is one day behind o one day itit"llh if tilt% retritionts ililits hill.
thint we will have to) send lsln Iback?
doctor iLovs.ov. Well. I am not sixeaking of lilt- tflect pion the li1ll: I :itt
nily reet1g things that hituppented it Kiny. nl.
STATEMENT OF MR. THEODORE BORTOLT.
ir. hlouToiT. It is itfi('t that oil tie very !iegttt'tlrz the Aliterbiin slllpsi-
the A niericatn warships--were taking only .Alilerleazt ,ltizens. but live days
mftpr instruclons were received by Adinmiral Iir'stol front lhp 8l4tte D}epart-
ient to make urrn tI'Ps Atmericamns
genpents to evacllale till the ('hristlaiq. allil
had then taken 17 Ireek shtIps unier thpir control. under the'r Itroteetion-
(Ireek ships with thatttlig-btt tley took Ihoss, lwople from i'ellsan Spit 2
ADMISSION' OF NEAR EAST REFUGRES. 119
lissle.- out of 8Smyrnas andi carrivid them for 12 ditys Journey to Mitylene, and4
they carried out all thlt- isristhins fromt Hinyrsta-4,0 nenl.
The ('miAmAN. That is it crrection of the statement jtis-,t made.
Mr. BOWrosi. That Is what I wanted to saiy.
Mr1.WHU*r. How inny sltiim did you. tiay?
Mr. Ilosrou. seventeenn (Ireek %fal)., were stakes under the control of tht.
Antertctns-Admirai Bristol. Three destroyers were isseeting the 17 Greek
4i511) ('very morinfg lit rt'lsvs Sit. osulslolve tf 8zyrni.
Trile CHAIRMAN. Asty statement as to what thle United Stattem did1or did not
(to should be inside to the C~ommsittee onl Foreign Affairs and stot to tills cofl5-
Isitlte.
Mr. KALA5tDj AN1.If Von Will UIiIlit
se, I Will j118t finlish Illy Stitetisent and Say.
thast out of these 2.000,000 people that were there before the war, there are
liow 780,000 alive, of which 25S0.000 are lit ltsnsslan.Arinenifl safe. We atre not
asking any favort; for thems. Absout 100.000 hasve taken refuge down fit Syriat.
Thsey aire safe there. That b. unsder Freiielh mnsdate. And there are about
MA)).0 lit ('otstanitinople who are Armntsasts. I amn Just ospeatkisg of tise
1,50,000 Armanisss, ot whichls erhapsm 40.000 already have left the city of Poll-
stasitliople, froif smy report (if yesterday front it Armsenians lawyer whso hal%
juist arrived.
Tihsen we nre tolid by thse nastiontal elega~stions, asul very brieflyv. that Isn tis
foriser TurkIsha territory there are now 130,0(W) Armianls who have been told
by thle Tsurks to pet out, mid they are corning to tlse- seashore to the number of
1.30.100 refugee coming oust of tie country.
The CHAImANm. Are tny other people beintg huIShe41dshOf thep elmltttry by tile
Tusrks?
Mr. KA(AIU A~N~s. . I (-till tell you mnly about the Armenians.
TheP VCHAiRSAN. How does It come you are only Interested4 ii the Armentias?
Mr. KAAD5~.Because I amt of Armnisian descent ansd itaturaily. I wuint to
tell osily what I know. Tisere oure Greeks also being drivent o1t, hut I cast not
tell hsowi many GIreeks are being driven froin there, but I alin only furnishing
yosu Informsatiuon lit regard to the Armisetan situation. One hundred ansi thirty
thtousands A riiniiiss are belmn, driven nowi~ from sits tolisi, bisrkey-Turkey
III Asius-isnd 18.0110 have 1.tku'ii refisget InsIlushgaria.
Mr. WHIMy. Are they safe?
Mr*. es: III illsiths. they sure safe. Of course. tivsy tire noit
Y(~.Is~s~.
houased. Onliy 8.000 hsave fond houses. residessees thse other 1110K) tire twtitteite
tall over, ansd deptendi for relief itiui others.
14o that ailto-et tier 7.38,(N) Armientis there tsire IIIT 'liskey. ('olsshitsstsose.
Sysiss anud Vauisssss tiull issehded. 0 f theset onsly those, who aire III 41'reek terri-
tosty. tIsotit 10 aW)urt ei4sussied4.
No0w. I WIvS11 tim Stay. g"eisltesies. Ilsist thei A~rmsenhin ulegssthon to-disy is lit
J,551555551te. tsil( they astuasusst sisy mass Immissgration of Armienians 'to tilss
c4osistry. Tlhey do not want thest, 710.000l Armsenilans to be, brought tiere-, even
thoulghilt V14 uitcil States Was ridy to Sensd tile shls lid~ii load thesisl nd
bring theist over, for tho sImltle reason., it-, olse other 'Mentlses tif Congress wits
asking its, It there are tuot so many others who would coenlIli tisser tils
inssdse. bust tisI' Ariialui n5ational5 de'legtion Is asking thp powers If they
slut not establish this Armsenlia that Wiss givens toI the MAtitiesshsius by thle treaty
of tlast to hatve pato of thust. aidd atpartt (of that territory to lite issim
lcreit
Ariseni. so that tll tilt refugees cosihd go undt settle there nsuil stirt to butibi
tIP their own hossus. or they Call be given sonie territory here lIn this part.
In Cilcia Iindlcsutiiigj, right here. mhis areek ts'iritory wiwt given by the(
treaty (if Sevres to Frasnce. but France. ats yosu ksiow. imile asseparatte agree-
ment with Turkey suid turned over tUit territory toothet Turks. Now the
ntiionail delegation Is asking tile, powers to create, at sustluisl hose iuhder tho
'Issndite of souse sleill niationi Ils EUsslope, so thant tlsese 700,0(m) refogees. eass Is(,
taiken over there aind rebiilitated.
Mr. llAsKu. 8.111p11o18
they Sliouhl provide it territory for them like that ; who
Isi goisig tot protect then aftes they tir thserel?
'.%r. lCLu.JY ITe TLestguse of Natos shld indidertske their Isrotectloss.
[lte Turks agreeing. of course, to their lii. "' fat. Issiet isha. tile spikes-
man of lte Turks. iis sitlu they have nsot else hutch of territory to give to lte
Arusininus. aissd they will lie gladl If the( powers will take every Arstenisin
asnd give thems sonie of their territory. If they love tise- Asalessiin-. give tsesin
sosti territory somsewhsefe else.
Mr. WirrunF. I thuisik I ttotlCM~ at tepVlt that these Iteolihs' were going to ihe
Pernsitted to go back tot their hiohiss'.
120 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST RBFUOKES.
Mr. KALAIDjxAN. They are not permitted. That is why I wanted to ask
you a question a few minutes ago. They would love to go back and build a
national home, but the Turks do not want one Armenian there; In fact, not
one Christian. They want Turkey for the Turks, and the Turks alone. That
is the policy and that is why It is not possible for these Christian refugees to
go back to Smyrna or any part of Asia Minor, to their former homes, because
to go back means death. They are being driven out, those who are already
there.
Now, gentlemen, I am sorry to say that in that Turkish territory where I
was born, right within Cappadocia, my father was killed, my brother died In
tile army, and my mother only passed away three months ago, so that I could
not get her out. I am an American citizen. I asked the State Departinent
If they could do anythin:,; and they sald they could not do anything. And my
brother's widow, with her two young daughters, were there until three of four
months ago. Now, I suppose they are among those refugees that are walking
down toward the seashore In this snow and winter In that country, and I
don't know that they will survive. That Is my situation.
Now, so far as the Armenians are concernel. the Armnentai leaders and
national authorities, they do not want their lieople to be brought over iere
en maspe.
Mr. RAKER. Isn't It dist'netly nnder-stonil that tao for as this conference
has gone In Switzerland, not on!y by E1nghtd amd IFractie aind Italy. but by
the United States as the onlooker, the observer. that there will be no large
deportation of nationals front nny country; thlt they would none of them
stand for it; and that they were arranging so that they would give these
people an opportunity to go back to their honme-?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Why. the Turks alre making ironises to give to minorities
the same protection as Is given to (other minorities in other c.tintries; at the
same time the Christian minorities are being drven out of the country, se
that I take performance better than promises. which are factK.
Now, as to how many Armenians will cona if tils law pa.les. I wish to sty
that very few will come frcm the Caucasus. very few from Syria. tind whether
there will be very many coming from ('onstiuttlnopi leepands 1ipt1 what ar-
rangements are mande In Lausanne.
The CHAIRMAN. NOW are you sjteaking of Armenians entirely'.,
Mr. KALAIJU 1JA.%.
Yes. sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Are any Syriatis coming front Syria?
Mr. KALAIITAN. NO; the Syrians have protection there. France iaIs a
mandate over there. They do10 ot have to run for their lives.
The CHAIRMtlAN. Are any of them desiring to come at thiR time?
Mr. KALAIDJI1AN. Well, of course, Just ns people come from ,lilin or
Greece-I mean Italy-or atny other country, I suppose the Hvyrians will
ccme and go, but they are not it tile emnergeney bill. The emergency bill
Is formed for the Armenians and Greeks. issibly. who have been driven
from their homes, and now they are in Greek territory.
My estimate Is that, knowing that we only have 100.000 in this country,
at the most they would net have more relatives than between ten nnd fifteen
thousand, distant or close relatives.
The CHARMAN. Now, I want to get this thing clearly. Po you say that
this bill applies entirely to Armenians?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. No; I mean that I am only taking them.
The CHAIRMAN. Walt a minute-you are estinmating tile number of Ar-
menians?
Mr. KALA)JIAN. The number It will bring; yes.
Mr. WHITE. What do you base that on?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. I base it on the number of Armenians who tire In this
country and who have relatives.
Mr. WHITE. Just let tue Interrupt. You understand that this bill mipplies
only to the refugees?
Mr. KALAD)JIAN. Yes.
Mr. WHITE. Driven out of Smyrna and lrlhen out In these recent nnasi-
eres, who have relatives here that can give assurance that they will not
become a public charge; then they will have to met all the other conditions
of the law.
Mr. WHITE. Now. there might be it very snmll-and it Is generally conceded
in tie Ju!gt1lnent of tite Im:tJority of the witumsses who have been before this
-omimtte-there !s a very maill number of relatives of these particular refu-
Mr. KALAIDMAN. Yes.
ges who are in these dire conditions, living here who might avail themselves
of the provisions of the bill.
The CHAMIMAN. That is Just what we are going to get at. Your estinitte
is there are 100,000 Armenians, either naturalized or with first Ilprs--
Mr. KAAINJ AN. Ye; or donmicled. permanently domicile,!, here.
The CHAUIIAN. Without any papers?
Mir. KALAIDJIAN. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Your estimate of the number of Armenians that niuhit ixpo-
bly at the outside come to these relatives i shout what?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Well, not over 15,000.
Tihe CHAIRMAN. Armenans?
Sir. KALAIDJIAN. Yes, the number of Armenulns.
Tihe CHAIRMAN. NOW, will you 'give me the names of any other refugees.
any other nationalitles?
Mr. KALAIMIIAN. Greeks.
The CHAIRMAN. About how many?
Mir. KAIAIMIAN. Now. I wish to make a distinction. There are Greeks who
tare Greek subjects. This bill will not bring them. This is only for (lreek.4
who formerly were Turkish subjects.
Mr. RAKRR. No; it does not say that.
Mir. WHIT:. No; it says residents in Turkish territory.
Mr. KALAILJIA.'. tteidents ili Turkish territory, not Greek territory, you
see. So that is a distinction we have to make, because they are not coming,
as Greek citizens do not cotne under this bill from Greece proper.
The COTAIRMAN. Now give us your estimate.
Mr. KATAIDJIAN. My estimate i that while in the United States we may
have a halt million Grceks, not mnore than fifty or sixty thousand Greeks are
in the United States who come originally from Turkish territory; therefore
their relatives will be less than the Armenians, so they will have less relatives
than Armenians, because there are not as many Greeks from Turkey in the
United States as there are Armenians, so that your Greek problem is not so
tig, because you only take Greeks who have relatives in Turkey or are refugees.
Mr. It.'xnm.. Well. Greeks in Turkey; now that Includes the territory that
you have designated. all the Turkish territory?
Mr. KALAIJIAN. Fortner Turkish territory. That includes the Smyrtia dis-
trict and also the Constantinople district.
Mr. ItAKER. It takes all that territory?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. And Thrace.
The ('HAIRiAN. Now we have got the Greeks. Wht other nationality would
lie likely to li included in the terms of this I)i1l?
Mr. KAT.AMI)JAN. Well, there are very few others.
Mr. VAtir:. How about the Assyriamns?
Mr. KAi.AiJIAN. The Astsyrlans come froim Alesolotaila mostly. There are
not many Assyrlans in tmat patrt of Turkish territory that we are speak'ng of.
The CHAIR1A.x. Are there any?
M1r. KA.TAL.1.U1A'. Hardly alny; very few.
1r. WIilis. Are there uny Assyrhln refugees that you know of?
Mr. I(.CAAIuul.Y. A\syrlan refugees': Well. there are Assyrians who have
been driven froa 'ersla and would want to eonme here-fron Mesoiotania and
Bagdad and sonie of them as far is InIth.
The (HAmIrmx. They were refugees ntead of the date fixed iII this lll-
that is. Assyr:ans?
Mr. KALAID1AN. Yes.
Mr. Ha.
laven't we had a coullfitee of thetil before us at the last se-
sloni? But they left their homin- before December, "?2i, so that bill will not
cover them.
Mr. ItAKrit. This would include the Ittalhui Ilt lIart, il that territory that
are Christians?
Mr. KAIuAuI.IA. They have a Government of their own.
Mr. ltAIKR. That is not the p,):nt. It would lue ilde Italians tlt were In
this Turkish territory.
Mr. KAToAINI.AN. Well. how many ltallans were there il that territory?
Mr. RAKER. I am asking you, Just front your observation, as Infornmtion for
the eonumittee. If It would not Include the Italians that were living in this
Turkish territory who had relatives In the United States that they could bring
here?
IN o
122 ADIIMSSION OV NPJAR EAST ]REF110SRS.
Air. KMAIA1A. If they llved---nceording to this bll, If they lived in tilt

inyrna uilstrict nd tire refugees, they insty conte, bill this whole number of
Italiassn Is only a few. so that flint wold not ninke, a Isrobletu.
Mr. Wisrrn. It might Inelude on English refugee If lie halt a relative here
and wanted to bring Win.
Mfr. KAT.ATIMIAN. Yes.
Tlts ('FIAIRMAN. INow. tflat is interestingv; Itaian, Engllsli--ony either iii-
Mr. KAi. %i.1s.X. It Is not for uie to say. Did4 you onsly waot to know ho4w
insny ('bristians there fire? That iq the idea'?
,rte CHAR.1MAN. I oit) not may Christians: I inwan people thint were $1s
Anatolia.
MP. KALAIDJI1AN. I sany this, that It the eossunittee thinks that tile Mglsh
and Itallins have their own governmentss and peoploi to look after. they (-ar
niake tin amjendmient to thfis bill. We do not clahii thigh bi~l to be it p)rfeet
bill. You canl nake atnendmneits to It.
Mir. WHImH. It does not require any itendmient. It auIsiltsI theml withilut
nimendmnent.
Mir. HAKFuE. It -wouldiadit tile- Turks also. You talk about the (Thristiim
nsow and sionCrisln-thIs would admnit the Turk as well. would It not, If
lie wanted to clam to be a refugee? He could may"! ant against these Tuirksg
title) what In being (lone by then, and I want to get out of this territory."
Mir. KArAIDJIAN. You hare another iioratIon bill, you minser.s'anmill?
Mr. JIAIiCI. No; let tict hang right onto this. You ore- talking about fte
Christian and. the non-ChristIan. If It was a Turk, lie eold vintii here slider
this bill If lie hall relatives In the United Statex.
Mrf. WHIT& I It(li were a refugee.
Mfr. IIAKER. Yes; a1nd he could be a refugee under thUR bill. couldn't hip?
Air. KALAIDIAN. I have miy doubts that lie i~ll Ipbe a refugee, lie would not
lie it refugee because Iw Is not being inurderted, not beige ruibbl.i noltu~i
inolested. The Turk Is the offender, nt the victi1w.
MrV.HIxsAM.Theni you findh no Turk onl eairthu that Is agist tMvi Turk'sbAl
(Ioverninent? Is that right?
'Mr. KALID.AlsNA. You isight soy, i(-rlinaps. it the s'x-t.Klas elf Tre
milght want to get lit as it refugee.
Mrf. RAKER. Cou(ln't lie COMe In?
Sir. KALAnUJIAN. Well, IeQ i4 11411t ierssultle'l tinder tihe law prii'islhitilsrt
pulygarny.
1
M .r. lt.%l(ER. C'osudtit these girls Cse-Etlsut sat thne boaress?
Mr. KAIAITMlIAN. Thast Is til to you.
Mi. itAKIIs. Now, let lte ask you-now. lie frasik aboust tIb: don't sIt offt
thiat way. This would Iuilit nll these girls front i arenils. would It notd?
Mr. KALTIMJAN. Nip.
IMr.ItAKER. If they could get awaly?
Mr. KAL.A11.1N. 'rise biitigratioii law says polygastiisfiists intsd0 voiue.
All. RItKIKR. Tile girls sire not to blame.
AMIr. KALAIDimqA. They have no relatives here.
Mr. RAKEIRt. NOW, yolt cll not say thast: flthnt youIlvan1 Just go iisi wsid ic~k
fui fte bpest young pcile or the rosmntr' thant youl call gel hold f antd 1int
they have no relativesiii tisfi country.
Now, let nie ask you thism olmston: ]Ip youl kiiow~ whev Net Iwss In
Mas'4achssewtt..?
M1r. HLA.s.iDAMN.~. Wel I Ihuts'i Minhk 1 ksu..b~' vermy ltsitfehy. wit1 1 harev
Isearul of It.
Mr. RIARVst. All riught. %re time Aisnisii soi eossiiltoilea like ollis's' 104)11'%"
thatt If they.. get till. iu:jority tlIsey i1-01)t' i'onfri'al tlsiis like onsy ofier ntion.iti
nity does?
'MP. K.AAnDus.1N. WP'eL iii aitheI144isueey thle 1susjor-ity mlbitrol.
311i'. RARER:s. DTl Vout get us.VlyquStili?
Mr. ICAL~AIDu31. 'Yes.
Mr. ll.wiiu. Thle%- do it, then. Just like any other people? If they are lit thle
tuuss1jority they run Isings, juxt like any other tntionality rnts thle goveruitent
If tiley.% get cosutrol of It, don't they.
Air. KALAID-1IAN. Well, we of this country stanud for manjority rule: yes.
Mr. WaIITs. Bint yolt don't claim they run things like thep Turk d1oe.?
Mr. K.%TLArnJ5AN. NO: this control would nlot be mizssnriiig thin. They
wvould not1 decide to mmtas.acre people.
AAIMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUORUES. 128
lr. RAKiER. If there wits it large tuniier of oilier natlotalltlm lit the ola-
lnnlty where they hve a niajorlity nal they did not like their, they would
immediately proceed to deport them, Juqt like we do in Newtown, Maim.?
Mr. KALAII)IAN. No; I do not think there is any such record.
Mr. RAxrnt. Have you looked that up to see? Do you rentemher what up-
peared before this committee, when a gentlenian came here ant testified that
they made arrangements and took the town's money to get rid of ahut 2,(XI0
Spaniards that were in this town slid had a majority of Armenians?
Mr. KALAIIDJIAN. Well, I don't think i Newtown we have so linny Armenians.
Mr. ItAxhit. Well. Newt BrtIdn, It was.
Mr. KALIDJIAN. No; we have not very suany Armueuias: I Can tell you
liere. I hive the statistics of every towel in thee ulted, Stptes, how ilnity
Arineians there are, iandl I Cailstell 3e01, idilthere are no suci h"l inubiihers of
Arielilans in New Britain. It Is Assyrlan.. I Chi give .igl the tOWos wlen'e
there ire no iore than 1,00 Anuenlinm, aimitl5,000 or 3,0.X), if the coelillilttee
wants to. I have the whole farts here.
The .jInAxIm. Ptil that In the i'.itrd, will yon?'t
(Tie palmer referred te follows :1
stollslehs takua from i cjrl of Connsntionur rh,neral of imurigratlon, 1919,
Tables x|', XVII. X11lil.
ARMENIAN.
b INet in-
End-
I gration. Net Im- Dcorte lderw or
ntilganti. lic rer c
I ................................................. 3,299 234J 13 5

3:05
2. 542
ten ................................................. 3,108 9991
1910 ................................................ W4 4:9K7
1911 ................................................. 0'2 718 2,09W
4,1 ii1 4,495
1912 ......................................... ........ .,32'
1914................................................. ?,333 8,677 31N 14,329
20 6, 51:i
1914 ................................................. 7,7K 12 476
1915 ................................................. 932 14
.................................................
191................................................. 3,
1,2"i14
305 81 2Z)
191"/ 133a 2 1,1
19138...................................21 I1- I - -1017 - 1021
1919 ....................................... 270
Total ..........................................
40,%7 7,,44 j 33,ii3 7631 3-,7s0
TURKS.
I0w ............................................ .... 2,3297 1,700 027

1...... ..................... M20 1,114 -3K4
1910.................................................. I," Ara -5
1911 ........... ........................ 91%Mf 1,3M l_7S 9
211 -721
N
9
1912 .................................................. -30 97
-39
1913 .................................................. 2,015 I 1,297
1914 .................................................. 7,114 1,795
19t .................................................. IMl 3 62
i11
1918 .................................................. 216 41 42
1917 ............................................. 40D p
3W
191k ............................................ 24 ss -31 3 -37
1919 .................................................. Is 275 -257 0
Total1 .......................................... 370 2,204
12.377 9,103 2,674
SYRIAN.
5,520 1,700
................................................. 3,M) 31
3,614
1 ................................................. 2,454 1 12 2,462
1910 0,317
................................................
3:077 S.240, 50 4,60
16 44
iv3................................................. 4,271 "2 4,23
1912
.................................................
,52 4,513 31 4,62
1913 1,g210 132
................................................. s,413 891 7,762
1914
.................................................
1 0 7,742
97 1,334 44
1,70
1his................................................. 120 N0! I 641
ill?.................................... I 978 Ito so0 7W M89
l1t ................................. . 210 10 36
1219....................................... 231 132 73.
Total ................................ 48W6?894j
I toTaL 40il 1,,96
149 37,904
30
Mr. KAA I)JIAN. I made this a study several years ago. for the interchurch
movement of the Armenians of America, so I have made a study of the cities
where there are 3.000, 1,000, 2,000, 100. I can furnish you all the details.
The CHAIRMAN. That Is very good. We have got the same things for the
Greeks.
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Now, I have not finished my statement. I want to say
this In regard to the Armenians In America, that the Armenians that are here
they have made good. That is not our own assertion merely, but the records
show it. Here I have the record showing the character of the Armenians,
the records of the Commissioner of Immigration. Take the question of liter-
aey test. The Armenian people are the most literate people ailiong tile new Ini-
migrants. The report of the Commissloner of Immigration shows that of all
the Immigrants admitted Into this country between 1899 and 1910. the Arme-
nians 24.1 per cent; Greeks, 26 per cent; Rumanians, 35 per cent; Polish, 35.4
was 24.1 per cent; Greeks, 26 per cent; Roumanlans, 35 per cent; Polish. 35.4
per cent; Russlan. 38.4 per cent; Bulgarians, 41.8 per cent; Syrians, 53.3 per
cent; Portuguese. 68.2 per cent. This Is a wonderful showing when you think
that every Armenian had to steal his education; that they had to work under
difficulties to get an education, and yet they are the most educated of all the
peoples in southern Europe, including southern Italy. Rumania, Bulgaria,
Russia. and all these territories. Furthermore. about the citizenship, tile
result of investigation among the Immigrant employees in the manufacturing
and mining Industries has shown the following results: &8.2 per cent of the
Armenians were naturalized; 32.0 per cent of the Ital.ans.
Mr. RAKER. Where was that?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. This Is in the manufacturing establisiments In the United
States. Thirty-td-o and nine-tenths per cent of the Italians were naturhilsed.
24.1 per cent of the Hebrews, 21.9 per cent of the Lithuanians were, 20 per
cent of the Syrians, 17.1 per cent of the Czecho-Slovaks. 14.7 per cent of the
Ruthenlans, 5.3 per cent of the Portuguese, 3.7 per cent of the ("reeks: and the
Bulgarians-none of the Bulgarians were naturalized.
I might say also that the Armenians have made some contributions to this
country that are valuable.
The (',HATRMAN. Up to what date are those figures?
Mr. KALAInJIAN. These were taken between 1899 and 1910. the Armenians.
Mr. RAKER. What point are you trying to make before the committee now?
Mr. KArLAmIAN. I nm trying to make this point, that the Armenians who
come are the most literate and they make citizens and that they don't stay
here a!ens very long when they come here. They stand tile highest aniong
new inndgrants on literacy and citizenship.
That is one point I want to make.
Another point Is that during this war. the late wnr-
Mr. RAKER. It would seem from your statement that till' iers Peopile are
persecuted the more they get busy and the better they do and tile better clti-
zens they make and tile less illiteracy there is among them.
Mr. KALAID.1IAN. Professor Huntington seems to think that the Armenian
peIople, if tiley have survived for 2,000 years ifter persecution. there iusltt
be something to then that made them survive. I thihk that Is only historical
proof. No one can dispute that that Is a fact.
Now, here may I saly that we have in this country Armenians who have
nmaide contrilutios to Amuerican life. For exoanple. ninybe you do not know
that the greenback color In the American dollar bill is it cotrinibuton of 11ln
Armenian. Doctor Seroplan made this invention anid sold his patent to the
United States (overnment.
Tile first silk Industry was introduced into this country Iy in Armenian
In Virginia, and the General Assembly of Virgin iii D nceml)ubr. 1(r(1. passel
the following resolution: "That George. the Armenian. for his encourage-
ment in the trade of silk and to stay in the country to follow the' sanic. hilve
4,000 pounds of tobacco allowed him by the assembly."
Mr. HAKER. That is too much tobacco for one mon.
Mr. K.A.AIn.uIiN. Then. in education, we have about 40 Armenian professors
teaching in the United ,States universtles. We have 200 Armenian practicing
physicians. We have over 50 ministers who are preaching to Anlerican con-
gregations. The first soldier, I am told, who landed at Manilan was an Arnie-
•nian. Ten thousand Armenians were serving in the last war in tileUnited
States Army, which is quite large when you consider that out of the 100.000
Armenians that means children and all.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGES. 125
The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you, when you get down to the second genera-
lion, do they still carry on the statistics and call themselves Armenians?
Mr. KAiAtIDjAN. YOU mean do we call them Armenians?
Mr. V.%iL. He means whether your figures there Include only the first or
also the second generations.
Mr. KALADJIAN. Mostly the first generation. The children have not grown
big enough yet to get into the records. I felt very proud last week when I
saw that a young man who is in Brown University, Gulilan, who played on
the football team of Brown University, that ranks with the 16 great teams
in the country, unit this young man won put on the team as left tackle, one
it the best in the ouintrv. So you see that is a good sign that they are be-
coming Americanized when they- begin to play football and baseball.
Mr. R1AIKEn. YOU miy there were 10,000 Armenians who were in the service
of the United States in the last'war. Were they mostly horn litthis country?
Mr. KALAUIDAN. Ni: they were mostly young men who ran away from
Turkey in 1008 amd 1009 to escape Turkish massacres and served In the Army
and came here. A good many of them enlisted voluntarily. My own nephew
was one of them. Without my knowing It he went in and enlisted and went
to Frane mind fought there. and he Is now In this country.
Now. I do not want to take too much of your time, but here Is a state-
ment from the former ambassador to Germany, Andrew D. White, who says
that "The Armenians are a people of large and noble capacities. For ages
they have maintained their civilization tnnder oppre.ion that would have
crushed almost any other people. The Armenian Is one of the finest races
litthe world. If I were asked to iamUi, ihe most desirable races to be
added by immnlration to the American population. I would name among
the very first the Armenians."
I have a similar statement from former Ambassador Gera'd, and if we
had the time I could read you a statement even better than that from our
present Secretary of State, Mr. Hughes.
The CItAIARMAN. Do you think It is necessary to Incorporate that Into the
record ?
Mr. KALAIDITAN. I do not know that It is. 1 wish to say this-ust one
more word. This thing attacks me personally. I had in Smyrna my brother
with his wife and 10 children. He was a prosperous shoe manufacturer.
Here is a letter front his ion. who Is about 22 years old. He was one of the
boys. Doctor LoveJoy. who. In order to escape the Turks. threw himself Into
lite water and swani toward the American battleships. The American sailors
picked him up, brought to Greece, and from there he writes and says: "My
father has been carried away by the Turks. Don't know what happened
to my mother and to my other sisters and brothers." I am glad to say that
since then I have received another letter from his sister saying that "Mother
sind the rest of us arrived here. but father, we don't know whether lie is dead
or alive."
Now. tijose 10 children, from 8 months to 21 years old. are there, mad
they have only one carpet and one blanket as earthly property upon which
they must sit and sleep day and night, and they are housed In one of the
schools In Athens. They do not know how long they are going to be allowed
to stay there. Now, if you were in my position as an American citizen, how
would you feel? Now, If I have property, property right is something, but
T feel that every American citizen has some consideration. I want to at
least do some service to my brother's wife and children, to bring them over
here. I am not the only one. The brother's wife has a brother here and I
have another sister and they have another brother. They are all willing
to go and help this family of 11. now without a father, but we can not do
It unless this bill passes. We guarantee that If these people come they will
not become public charges. As the Y. M. V. A. secretary, I am making affi-
davits for people. I have had about 434 people come to my office every month.
asking me what to do. Here Is a copy of on nffldait T have prepared for
other people.
UNITED 181TATPH o AsEIIIA, STAi: OF Nyw YoH ,
(.omwtp of New York. R*:
Hunmayak Timaxian, being duly sworn. depose and sayys that he resides at
317 East Twenty-seventh Street, New Tork City: that he Is a citizen of the
United States. having become a citizen of the United States on November 30.
1920: that his certifleate Is No. 14.554 . Issued nt New York City by the dis-
tritl court of the United States; that ie is the brother, brother-in-law, tind
uncle. respectively, of Mrs. Elinas Sour:in. aged 42, KrIkor Sourtiln. age 45.
and their son, Antranilk Sourian. age 17, now residing at Constant nssple: that
ie desires to bring his sister, her husband, and their son to tils country: that
lieIs employed by the I'ennsylvania IRailropad Co. ats a storekeeper at a salary
of $150 per month and is making nt least $1,&)U per annum, and Is able to
support bWs fainlly and his sister, with her husband sid son, in their accus-
toed station In life; that lieguarantees that if allowed to come to this t-oun-
try the said sister, with her husband and son. will not become a pubi'c charge.
but that liewill supiwrt then, if necessary.
On the 15thl day of Deeenmber, 1922, Ix-rsonally sifipeared before iue Hnanysik
Tinaxi n, who. being duly swors. stated that the above statemnents sire true.
I have examined carefully the above-menticsned v,,iflcate of naturalization and
am satisfied ihnt it belongs to the deponeit.
Notiry )'Pidbli.
The CHAIRMAN. llow long do you ninke the gunnitity?
Mr. K.LAIM.IA.NX. That guaranty is for life. You know that after five years
there is n law that If they hecotise public chargess within five years they cmn
ie deported. so anyone that makes that nitdavit they have to guarantee the
five years. After five years, If it ,rsin here can't snaking n livln.g., lit is in
good.
The Cmaincm... Now, let we usk you. If we uidert, k to moi.ly Ids .ill to
make this bond en ssntetlilisg. we woulil loe entitled to inake ftli bind rusn
for five years. muid witsln't that be offensive to the institutions of thie unitedd
States?
Mr. KALAIDJtAN. I do not see iny tieces-lly of having tMe boid fur five years.
behiuse these petiple guarantee. anti It they do not do whait they sisy they will
be deported.
The CHfAIR A. No: we hInve not succeeded In depsorting anyone.
Mr. KA AIDJIAN. Yes: we have deported every slay people that I know.
The CHAIRMAN. We have not succeeded in deporting anyone who has been
admitted under any of these emergency bonds. temporarily admitted, and I
believe we have not collected on any of these bonds, and that in itself isqa little
m!ofortune in the law. Now. I doubt very much if thi, United States wants to
he in the position of admitting people to a free country under hInd to lit
United States. Have you thought about that phase of it tiny? You talk against
the bond of five years and yet the period In which one may be deported for
liability to become a imblic charge Is live years. A bond for six amlths is
nothing; n bond for one year Is nothing, because we are all prosperous this
minute. The soul does not live that can guarantee that I will not wind tilIn
the poorhouse. Don't you Pee what I uietan? It nmy be only three or four years
until I am broken inhealth and the bond that could be put up for sue would be
an offense in a free country. Now that Is one of the things to look tit ii
this bill.
Mr. R Misforlune is wiat we are all struggling to prevent. but we look
tAKg.
around and find about two-thirds go. that way.
Mr. KALAWDJAN. I massy say, Mr. Chairman. if I 1had my wily ti our (ituo1ta
law.
I would rather see the quot, reduced to 2 Ier cent. or I per cent. and in tie
law that preferential claua where we say that the citizen's wife antichildren,
etc., are given preference, are made nit exception.
Mr. WHarF. Mhy don't you eliminate all the percentage antijst admit the
relatives, not admit anyone except the relatives?
The CHAIRMAN.. You know the flaw tit that, do you not? You know what ire-
vents that. Complaint Is made by those who seem to want common labor, alien
labor, against bills of that kind, and even the quota hill Is admitting dependent
people and not working people. Now Just as soon as we get through with tils
hearing we will be ready to hear those who elaini that they tnist have cheap
alien labor in the United States In order to keep the wheels going around.
That Is the next labor for the committee, and there is something to it. The
fact is that we (an not be always admitting dependent people, ns rouch as we
would like to do it. I would like to give every boy a chance to bring his mother
here, if he thinks he Is able to support her. Whether he can or not Is another
question. I would like to take him on his word that he would like to try,
hut you see the situation it breeds, don't you?
ADMISSION OF NAR FeAST RBEFUGEES. 127
Mr. KALAItAN. I-see this, that the present law is retarding the process of
Americanization In this way, that those who are citizens and are here per-
manently, when they see that they can not bring their fathers and mothers,
brothers and sisters, they are not so contented. Of course, you can not make
people contented when you keep their families apart.
The CHAIrMx.. I will tell you what Is retarding Americanization, If you will
permit me, the everlasting fact that every people that comes here and becomes
citizens persists In keeping close statistics on their people and encouraging them
all to believe that they are another people, a different people. That is what
hurts us,
Mr. RAxran That is it exactly. You will find everyone that ever comes here-
nobody has ever questioned it, and it hurts. Every man that comes belongs to
an organization. His people are the only ones that are good people; the rest are
no account.
Mr. KALAwiDJAN. They are all good people.
The CHAmiN. Of course they are good people. We don't deny that at all,
and that is another flaw in the bill. We are picking out-we are listening to
you now by the hour in behalf of the Armenians as above other refugees. Now,
I will tell you, that so fas as I am concerned, If I have my way about It and
bring this bill out, refugees will be refugees. It is not for me to say that one is
a preferred class over another.
(The pamphlet offered by Mr. Kalaidjian follows:)
THE AR E.%A. ssI AMERIcA..
The Immigration of Armenians to the United States Is of comparatively recent
date. While there were a few Armenians in America, even In the early seven-
teenth century, their number was insignificant. The Armenian immigration
may be classified into three periods for convenience. First, the period of the
pioneers. Those who came up to 1894, about 4,000 altogether. Second, the
period which we may call suppressed Immigration, which falls between the
years of 1894 and 1908. The majority of those who came to this country at this
time were from Armenian Proyinces where Turkish oppression was most severe,
where massacres were beyond description, and life was unbearable. Third,
Immigration which we may call the period of larger immigration which falls
between the years 1908 and 1914. According to the most reliable sources of
information, there are at the present time in the United States approximately
100,000 Armenians. In the early years most of the Armenians in the United
States lived in the North Atlantic States, but to-day, while most of the Ar-
menians are still to be found In the Eastern States, there are Important colonies
in the Middle Vest, and especially on the Pacific coast. There are about 25.000
in the New England district, aoout 20,000 in the north Atlantic district, about
15,000 in the central district, about 5,000 in the southern district, and about
20,000 In the Pacific coast district.
CHARACTER F ARMENIAN IMMIGRATION.
"The Armenians are a people of large and noble capacities. For ages they
have maintained their civilization under oppression that would have crushed
almost any other people. The Armenian is one of the finest races in the world.
If I were asked to name the most desirable races to be added by Immigration to
the American Ropulation, I would name among the very first the Armenian."
(Andrew D. White, ambassador to Germany.)
'"Over 40 per cent of the Armenians admitted into the United States are,
according to the classification of our Immigration Bureau, skilled laborers and
educated professional men and women. The record of their character, life, and
activities in our country brings to light the substantial qualities of Armenian
people. By comparison they stand head and shoulder above all other Immi-
grant races from southeastern Europe and Asia Minor." (Hon James W.
Gerard, former ambassador to Germany.)
ARMENIANS AND LITERACY.
The Armenian people are the most literate people among the new Immigrants.
The report of the Immigration Commission shows that among the Immigrants
admitted into this country between 1899 and 1910 Armenians were the least
illiterate.
25909-23-sta 1-c-9
Per cent
Illiterate.
Armenians ----------------------------------------------- 24.1
Greeks -------------------------------------------------- 26.0
Rumanians ----------------------------------------------- 3.0
Polish -- ------------------- 5.4
Russian ------------------------------------------------- 8.4
Bulgarians -------------------- --------------------------- 41.8
Syrians -------------------------------------------------- 53.3
Turks ------------------------------------------------------------ 58.9
Portuguese ----------------------------------------------- 63.2
AIMENIANS AND NATURALIZATION.
The result of investigation among the Immigrant employees in the manufac-
turing and mining industries has shown the following results:
Per cent
naturalized.
Armenians ----------------------------------------------- 58.2
Italians ------------------------------------------------- 32.9
Hebrews ------------------------------------------------- 24.1
Lithuanias ----------- --4 -------------- 21.9
Syrians -------------------------------------------------- 20.0
Czecho-Slovaks -------------------------------------------- 17.1
Ruthenlans ----------------------------------------------- 14.7
Portuguese -------------------------------------------------------- 5.3
Greeks --------------------------------------------------- 3.7
Bulgarians --------------------------------------------- ---- 0.0
ARMENIAN CONTRIBUTIONS.
Armenian people have not been In this country long enough to make many
Impressive contributions to American life, but they have made some Im-
portant contributions to It, nevertheless. One of the earliest Armenhmn con-
tributions lies been in the care and in the raising of the silkworm. Two
Armenians came here as expert cultivators of the silkworm and their work In
the Virginia colony was so successful that In December, 1650, the Assembly of
Virginia passed the following resolution: "That George, the Armenian, for his
encouragement In the trade of silk and to stay in the country to follow the
same, have 4,000 pounds of tobacco allowed him by the assembly."
At the present Dr. Vartan Osiglan, of New Orleans, Is the director of the
largest silkworm farm in America. After 10 years of experiment Doctor
Osiglan has succeeded by changing the quality and quantity of food to produce
silk In 18 different colors. This discovery is bound to revolutionize the silk
industry.
Another noteworthy contribution of the Armenians Is the green color used In
the American dollar bill. Doctor Seropin made this invention and sold his pat-
ent to the United States Government and thus contributed in standardizing
American currency.
The beautiful oriental rugs were introduced by the Armenians. Originally
they controlled the entire business in the United States, and at present at least
80 per cent of the oriental rug business is In the hands of this rate. The beauti-
ful Herati rug, which Is recognized as one of the finest domestic rugs in
America, Is manufactured by the well-known Armenian firm, Karagheusian &
Co., of New York City. The Armenians also have developed an extensive busi-
ness in the Importation and sale of beautiful handwork and objects of art.
The fermented milk called Zoolak is recommended highly by the doctors both
as a healthful diet and beverage. It was introduced by Doctor Dadirlan, an
Armenian.
The Armenians have been pioneers In the art of photo-engraving. They have
made some important Inventions In this line, and at present they control a good
deal of this trade in New York City.
There are also Anomnians who are engaged in manufacturing hardware,
machinery, tools, shoes, jewelry, domestic rugs, embroideries, clothing, and silk
goods. The number of Armenians engaged In the export and import business
and banking and financial institutions are constantly on the Increase, and there
Is hardly a trade but what tihe Armenians are represented In it and are in
general very successful.
ASUENIANS 1'. EDVCATION.
The Armenians in the United States in proportion to their number, as com-
pared to other races, have produced the largest number of professional men,
some of whon have attained marked distinction in their professions. There
are over 20 Armenian professors and instructors in the leading universities
and colleges in the country such as Harvard, Cornell, Columbia, Pennsylvania,
Lehigh, Chicago, Wisconsin, and Trinity. During the World War some of the
Armenian scientists serving the Government In research work rendered note-
worthy service. Aniong these it is worth mentioning the service of MaJ.
Varstad H. Kazanjian, professor of oral military surgery and dental science
tit Harvard University. who headed the Harvard Medical Mission wfilch ren-
dered such conspicuous service in the World War to the British armies. His
wonderful facial operations have attracted the attention of the medical profes-
sion all over the world. England hits conferred ulon bhi the order of the
Companion of St. George and St. Michael for his distinguished service in the
war. There are over 200 Armpnian practicing physicians and dentists. Some
of these pliysiclans are recognized as leaders in their professions. In this
connection It Is worth mentioning Dr. Minas iregory, the noted alienist at
Bellevue Hospital, New York City, and also Dr. H. Mulejan. of Detroit,
Mich., formerly instructor in orthopedic genito-uriinry surgery at the Univer-
sity of Michigan, who served with the rank of lieutenant colonel tit Camp
Custer. Also Dr. A. (1. Hejinin. chief surgeon in charge of Mercy Hospital,
Animosa, Iowa, a leading surgeon of the Middle West. who served during the
war as a medical member of the Exemption Botird for Iowa.
The first American soldier landing at Manila was an Armenian. Over
10,000 Armenian young men served it the American Army during the last war.
There are over 50 Armenian clergymen who are preaching to American
congregations of various denominations. There have also been some Armenians
who have achieved distinction in the realm of art and music. Haig Patiglan
is one of the leading sculptors in this country who was awarded a prize for
his mnument to conmmemoratte the rebuilding of San Francisco, and who
served as one of tie judges of the art department In the World's Fair. The
Armenians have especially distinguished themselves in the engineering profes.
sion. There are several hundred engineers, chemists, and architects, some of
them occupying Important positions.
Flora Zabel, wife of Raymond Hitchcock, the well-known star in the theatre.
cal world, Is an Armenian. There are Armenian singers prominently Identified
with the opera both it New York and Boston. There are over 300 Armenian
students now studying in the universities and colleges of this country.
ARUIXIANS IN GI11Tx
The Armenians in Californla have inadt, Important contributions to the

agricultural development of the State. The total acreage producing grapes in
California is 250.000. anti tihe Armenian farmers of Fresno County control 40
per cent of the acreage devoted to the production of raisin grapes. The famous
Kasaba melon was Introduced into the United States by the Armenians.
Arakelyan. of Fresno, controls the nelon business on the Pacific coast and has
won the title of "melon king."
The Immigration Conmmission reports: "More Interest attaches to the immi-
gration activities and progress of the Armenian farmers than those of any
(other race * * * found In Fresno County.
"The Armenians have Iaid n higher price per acre for the farms purchased
iy them than any other race Investigated.
"By working hard. by living frugally, and by good management the Arme-
ninas have usually succeeded better than any other race in accumnulatng
property."
The rank and filhe f the Armenians all over the country have won the
respect and esteem of the Aniera.m people is law-ahdling ani industrious
citizens. As shopkeepKers, small tradesmen, laborers, and farmers they are
doing their humble part In the making of America.
fIzv. MIIiRAN T. KALAIJIAN, M. A.
STATEMENT OF MS.. ABISTIDES E. PHOUTRID3S, ASSISTANT

PLOPE03SOR OF GRBEEK, YALE UNIVERSITY.
Mr. PHotvDs. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am assistant professor of
Greek in Yale University and a major In the United States Reserves.
The COHAnMAN. How long have you been In the United States?
Mr. Pxouvninms. Since 1906. I have been asked ever since the great crisis
broke out to speak in behalf of various bodies and organizations, and I have
found myself lacking in the ability to control my emotions as my Armenian
friends here have been able to do. It was impossible for me to control my
emotional being to such an extent as to address any gathering on this great
crisis. Itfe reason is that 8,000 years crowd into my memory. I have been
studying the literature and history of a nation that for 3,000 years lins existed,
and I could not do it without bursting with emotion. I thought when the call
came to address this committee that I ought to do it, and fearing the very th!ng
that actually is happening now, I have prepared a statement which, with your
permlsison, I may read to you. It will not last longer than 10 minutes and I
certainly will be very glad.
The CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to hear you.
Mr. PHOUTEWES. I am afra!d that the good friends who culled upon me to
present before this honorable gathering an impassioned appeal for the unfor-
tunate Greek people as affected by the bill under discussion wlill be disap-
pointed in me. I can not be Impassioned. There are disasters that reach too
profoundly even for tears. The disaster that has overwhelmed the Greek peo-
ple snce last September is such. The loss Is not a losq of territory only; It Is
the kind that crushes body and soul, and may I have your permission to say,
the body and soul of a great nation in spite of its small number and size.
Every emotion in me is unleashed nt the very thought of this calamity. I think
I feel its blackness more because I grew among these Greeks of A9'a Minor.
I was born under the terror of the Turks. With them I was consclous of the
splendor of the past, of the glory that was Greece's. and with them I dreamed of
the great day of freedom which was to unite the people of Ionia with their
mother Hellas.
It was my good fortune to tear myself from that world of gloom and find
a home upon these shores but they. the mass of the people, stuck to the country
of their fathers and waited for the great day. All the terrors of brutal
tyranny could not drive them away and faithfully they clung to their dreams
through four centuries and a half of life haunted with agony and fear. At
last their great day seemed to dawn. Two years ago a Greek army landed
on their shores bringing the freedom to which they had sacrificed nearly 500
years of sad existence and then, just as their long-cherished vision seemed to
become a reality, the powers of darkness proved once more victorious. Greece
was betrayed by her own leaders and by her allies; her armies were broken
and the Turkish hordes burst in a devasting flood over Thrace and Ionia.
You know the sequel. There are 2,000,000 refugees upon Greek soil today,
2,000,000 helpless beings added to the 5,000.000 of a land worn out with domes.
tic strife and external war. Greece with a population of 5,000,000, Greece
with an area of more than 45,000 square miles, which is 5,000 square miles
less than the State of New York itself, without resources certainly equal to
the State of New York, and nine-tenths of it mountains, 20 per cent only cul-
tivatable, with 5,000,000 already crowding upon their shores and 2,000,000
more regardless of race, regardless of religion, regardless of health, whether
they were sick, whether they were Insane, not only from Turky but even from
Russia.
A week ego I received a letter from my brother, an abbott on my little
island of Icarla, telling me that there came to this rocky Island 3,000 refugees.
and that the day on Iwhich he was writing was the tenth since they had a
meal, in spite of the kindness of the Islanders to divide everything they had
with them. This is one of a thousand Illustrations of what is happening there,
and surely it Is not the worst.
The bill provides that of this unfortunate nation of refugees, relatives of
persons who are citizens or declarants. should be admitted. Is this so great
a sacrificefor a great and affluent country which is already so nobly Interested
in relieving this stricken mass of humanity?
t spoke to you of 450 years of this people's sad existence, but this covers
only the period of their struggle with the Turk. Their history In connection
with these lands goes much farther back than that, tolthe very dawn of Euro-
ADMISSION OF EAR EAST REFUGEES. 181
penn civilization. From Thrace comes the cult of Dionyslus, which Is in-
separably connected with the tragedy and comedy of Greece, and hence with
the drama of the world, while In Asia Minor, Europe was first born, In 1,000
B. C.; with the wonder that was Homer. Surely there Is no man among us
here-I should say there Is no eivilized man In the world-who has not some-
time in his life come under the spell of such shining figures as the heroes of
the Trojan myth. All of us have dreamed the dreams of Achilles and have
listeneC spellbound to the stirring tales of Odysseus's wanderings. The last
thing I 'ias reading just before boarding the train to come here was the Odys-
sey. I was reading how Odysseus, shipwrecked, with all his treasures lost and
all his companions lost, was cast by the waves upon a distant happy Island
kigdon, the land of the Chalclons, where gods are the constant companions
of men, and where life Is spent in great affluence and undisturbed happiness.
Before the rulers of this land Odysseus comes alone and destitute, begging for
hospitality.
Mr. VAIL&. Doctor. let me ask you a question about Thrrce. We had a
gentleman before us the other day who described somewhat the history of
Greece, showing that Its population had been shifted in and cut several times;
that the Turks had taken it from tho Greeks. the Greeks had taken it back
from the Turks. That happened several times. If this bill %?ere enlarged so
as to cover other dates than the month of October, 1921. the Tarks who would
have been driven out would be refugees, would they not?
Mr. PHoTiD.E. The Turks were not driven out, air. It is one of the noblest
things. I think of the present state of Greece that although occupying the dis-
trict of Thrace as Greek territory that was united by the treaty of Svres,
without any modifications about It, whereas Smyrna was not, Smyrna was
only a mandatory of the powers, whereas Thrace was an actual possession.
Having there a Turkish population of at least more than half. they did not
drive out the Turks by any means. They actually, the very next day, elected
12 members, if I remember right-I am not sure of the number, but it is a
respectable number-12 members of the Greek Parliament were representa-
tive Turks themselves, representing the Turkish population of Thrace and
speaking in the parliament for the Interests of that population.
Mr. VAU.E I was not referring to that particular Incident. I have no doubt
the freeks dealt very generously In that Instance with the people who were
there, but I was referring to a series of moves of the population back and
forth in there. Wasn't there any time when the Turks were forcibly ejected
from Thrace by the Greek inhabitants, possibly, the original Greek Inhabitants?
Mr. PHOUTRIDES. No, sir; the key to the situation-that Is. the question that
we must realize before we go any further-the key to the situation is the
Byzantium Empire, which is the Greek Empire now; It being around 1458 when
Constantinople fell. Therefore, those lands which were under the Greek Gov-
ernment became Turkish then. Now, since that time It has been the dream
of the Greek race to oust the tyrants.
Mr. VAJli. And that dream was partially accomplished from time to time?
Mr. PHOUTRTDL. It never reached Thrace. This is the time it reached
Thrace. It began with the liberation of Pelleponesus and Hellas. About
25 years later Thessaly was liberated, and then Macedonia was liberated,
ani in this last great war Thrace and Asia Minor.
Mr. VAIL. Possibly I am wrong in mentioning Thrace. but other parts of
this territory, which was formerly the Byzantium Empire. having been taken
by the Turks nnd retaken by the Greeks. they were held alternately, and when
the Greeks were in control what became of the Turkish population? Was it
allowed to remain ?
Mr. PHOUTRTI)F.. It was allowed to remain there.
Mr. VAiJE. All the time.
Mr. PHOUTUTDRS. All the time.
The CHAIRMAN. Was its nationality changed?
Mr. PHOUTRIDES. It is true that In the older part of Greece there are very
few Turks left as nationalists.
The CHAIRSIAx. That is, they have been absorbed into the population?
Mr. PHOUTRIDES. I should think so, to a large extent.
The CHAIRMAN. Has the religion changed?
Mr. PnouTR=s. The religion has changed In those parts. In Macedonia
and Thessaly It Is not so. The Turkish element Is still there In large
132 ADMISSION OF NEAR FAST REFUGEES.
numbers. It Is represented in the parliament, and it comes up to over halt

a million.
ite CHAimMAN. You are from one of the islands?
Mr. PourTnws. I am from one of the islands.
The CJIAXRMAN. YOU spoke here of the mythical proposition of the mar-
riage of Ionia and HellaS. That was a dream, this proposed marriage of
Ionia and Hellas?
Mr. PnouTrmDs. The union of Ionia with Hellas; yes.
The OHfAIMnAy. Now, then, that is a desire that is strong among the
original Greeks yet, 1 It not?
Mr. Pnounmwuz. I should think so.
The CHAMMAN. And you spoke of a large number of fine characters In
mythology and later history. How does It come that the Greek population
coming out from Greece now does not show us some of those noble charac-
ters?
Mr.*Pnounwcs. They are there If you will look for them.
The CHAIRMAN. You think they are there?
Mr. l'jioTtuyms. Yes, sir. I have been doing my part, I think, in bring-
Ing that out.
The CHAMMAN. What caused the fall of the empire?
Mr. PouTrra s. The great virtue as well as the great vice, anl that was
great individualism.
The CHARMAN. DO you think that a hybrid population had anything to
do with that?
Mr. PHouTnIDES. No.
The CHAIRMAN. You don't think that had anything to do with it?
Mr. PnouTums. No.
The ChIAMMAN. Do you think that has had anything to do with the bulk
of the Greek population at present?
Mr. PHouTzmzs. No.
The CHAMMAN. It Is not a mixed population?
Mr. IPHouIRTitill. It Is not I mixel poloulat oi-yes; there is a great deal
of Christian blood mixed with them, but certainly no Moslem blood.
Tie CHAIRMAN. Even If the Turks did stay in there, there is no Moslem
blood?
Mr. PHouTUIDEs. No; unless it comes through legal channels, and it Is
impossible to conceive a situation of a Christian girl marrying a Turk, and
vice versa. There may be a streak, therefore, but that streak must be very
little.
Mr. ltAutm. That thing will continue on Indellnltely until one ram, or the
other Is exterminated. Is that right?
Mr. I2Ho rTnEs. With regard to places where the two populations are-
Mr. RAKs (interposing). You say it is an inconceivable thing for a
Christian girl to marry a Turkish man or a Moslem, or vice versa?
Mr. PHouTrmtus. Yes.
Mr. RAKMs. So, as a matter of fact, this hatred and this feeling, thi4 fight
will continue on until one race or the other Is exterminated?
Mr. PHOuTRIDES. No. sir; as long as the Turks are there it will continue-
I mean as long as the Turks are there as a governing power.
Mr. RAKER. Certainly. when the Turks are lit the indorlty then. of course,
the trouble will cease. Isn't that right?
Mr. I'PnotrmtIww. Yes. They are not persecuted.
Mr. BAKR. I did not say an.1hung ailout Irs citi': I slniily sailh this
constant war lat has len goillg lonfor 2.0i4k years or iaore-2.4() lit le st-
will continue. so filr as the Turks tire conuverni-J vi ilit It that way-ulntil
(ne or the other Is exterminated litthis territory?
Mr. I'ilOINTniI)FA.Weil. no: I do tot believe your statement is right. It call
he' answered that. first. the Turk's history there is only Just i little less thnit
five centurles.
Mr. lRAFI:t. Well. that I4 some tinP--five pnturies.
Mr. 'IIOt'TRIDES. Secondly. the Turks. whet they are ruled by another power.
give the least trouhle,.ecaitnse they are treateil hiumanely. For example, yont
have in *Serbla now u million Turks. amnl you hear nothing of that. do you?
31r. lIANES. Yes: we had a witness here that was down through thern, and
lie said they were the most lissatisfied ail] ilseotented people lill earth.
Mr. PnOUTRIOFA. Have you heard of any persecutions, of any massacres, or
anything of that sort?
Mr. RAKER. The number is so small you can't persecute many of them.
Mr. I'HouTRtWA. A Turk who come from Serbiat here will tell you that the
population resent it. but there Is no doubt that they are treated humanely.
Mr. RAKER. Unless they are under a majority government or are extermi-
nated the Turks will pop tip. and it will Ie an element of discord from now
until eternity unless one of the two things occurs.
Mr. l'1notrhIDs. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAKYE. How does the Turk look at the other side? Does he believe tile
same way? Doesn't the Turk bIlieve It will continue unless lie Is the dominant
factor?
Mr. [oin ,Fq. In the one case you speak the point of view of every sane
man in the world: in the other you would speak the point of view of the
Turk.
Mr. RAKER. I an willing to put It that way if you want to call me a Turk,
all right.
'Mr. IluouTRiDiE5. If you balance those two answers together.
Mr. TAKER. You know some men are cowards when they get before the public.
Some are afraid to express their honest Judgment: stme will be ready and
willing to let the whole population Wnk over and above a little personal
aggrandizement of the present time.
Now. I am asking you If It Is not a fact that the Turk feels ihat If he were
running the thing there would be no trouble?
Mr. PHouirUws. Well. suppose I nnswer-what would you do with it?
Mr. lIAxi. That is not the question. You know something about the Turk.
Mr. PoUTaHvl.s. Naturally the brigand always thinks that it will be better
if he is allowed to rob and pillage.
Mr. RAKER. Certainly; that is the situation.
IMr. Pnol'0,TRnrwA. But you take him and you put him into prison and reform
him. which Is exactly what should he done with the Turk.
Mr. RAKER. So. as a matter of fact, this thing will continue on until there I4t
some definite separation of thl people in that country?
Mr. PV0UoTaRWFs. Yes.
The ('HAIRIAN. NoW. let me ask you-you are quite a student antl a pro.
fessor In Yale; you have paid a good deal of attention to the affairs of Europe.
Mr. PitoTtioms. Yes. sir: as n member of the military intelligence it was my
duty to he faol.liar with the political situation In the N.ear East. epecilly in
the Moslem country In general.
The (IIAIRMAN. Would you he willing to express an opinion as to whether
the population, generally speaking, of the Continent Is not in a Iife-and-death
struggle with questions of food for its people and avoiding freezing In the
winter? Isn't that really the question, and brought about largely by over.
population?
Mir. PuouTRIDEs. I do not think I have gotten the question.
The IimusiA.x. Isn't that whole country over there overpopulated?
.%r. PIOITTRInEs. Yes. sir.
The CIIAI1M.A5". Anil isn't there i great struggle for food in every one of
those countries?
.%r. Pnox-rir.s. In GIreece there is: yes. I would not say that Turkey is
overpopulated in the least. Asia Minor is the granary of the whole Byzantium
Empire. one of tile richest Provinces under Buropean control nt tlt time, and
Asia Minor now is a desert. Why?
The VI'Atm.n.X. Whtch is Avia Minor? Show it to me on the map?
(ir. Phoutrhles indlentes ol map.)
The (iIAIRM.,.. You smoke of It ns i Province now: existing a As!n Mnllor
or as a Province until what year?
Mr. PIImO1TRIaaFS. Asia minor was it Province of the flyzantun Empire until
it was overpowered by Ihe Turk-. which happened in the beginning of tile
fourteenth antl fifteenth centuries.
Mfr. RAKaE. A long thne ago.
The 'ITAIUMtAN. So now when you speak of tile prosperous country, you mean
you go hack to the thirteenth century?
Mr. Pimoumuwos. It Is still there.
Tile ,iHAIRUMA. Nhw, which was Asia Minor then?
Mr. PHOuTrtuw8. The particular region which I think is especially so quali-
fled Is this one here. from here down to the shore (indicating on mapi. Then
the coast region here laos been also very productive in mineral resources.
184 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REPUGERES.
L ev
The CHAIRMAN. Is that where the people live that have this name " an-
tines"?
Mr. PnoUTvas. "Levantine" is a term that should not be used seriously,
because It doesn't mean anything.
The CHAIRMAN. 'Levantine" means Greeks In Asia Minor. doesn't it?
Mr. PuovTsaws. It may mean Armenians; it may mean Italians that have
colonized there: it may mean French who are there-any term referring to
Christians who live in that territory.
The CHAMIMA. It does mean exactly that thing, doesn't it?
Mr. PHoTitIDs. Yes; but It Isa vague term. It doesn't carry out at all any
definite meaning.
The CHAIRMAN. What part of the population does It apply to?
Mr. Pitouwras. It Is applied In all kinds of ways, and therefore It has no
definite value.
Mr. WRie. It refers to inhabitants, residents, but not to the territory?
Mr. Pnoummus. It refers to territory, too. It refers to Christian inhabitants
of Asia Minor.
Mr. Wurr. But not to well-defined national territory?
Mr. Paoumins. No. air.
Mr. Wnrrm. It refers to a population who are there?
Mr. PHotrFTrDEz. Yes.
Mr. WniT. And who have been and are in a sense foreigners?
Mr. RAxrR. Professor. I understood that taking south of the Black Sea, east
a little-well, commencing about south of Constantinople-and coming along
the Mediterranean. and then dropping east of the Caspian Sea. south of Russia,
there would be about 15.000.000 people In that territory at the present time?
Mr. PnorTRmwy. No.sir: the territory there would not Include that many.
Mr. RAKER. This territory commencing there [indicating]; taking that terri-
tory about like that |Indicating].
Mr. Pont-Mra. That would not take. in my mind. any more than. say, in
the neighborhood of 17.000.000 to 20.000.000.
Mr. ItAKER. That Is what I say. Now. I am told-I want you to give your
statement about it-that this is one of the richest countries In the world, and
that It Is capable, properly cultivated and taken care of-the mineral and other
natural resources properly used-of easily providing for a population of
seventy-five to ninety million people.
Mr. Pnourumn s. I should not wander in the least if it would.
Mr. RAIUn. 2o that. as a matter of fact. this terror. this trouble, is not
because of overpopulation?
Mr. PouTR JDs. No. Now may I say that the plight of the refugees affected
by the hill Is a striking parallel of the episode described by the supreme of
poets. These people, too. have had their days of happiness, their past of great
achievements, their hosts of dreams that have gone out like a candle in the
evening wind. They now stand upon the shores, stripped of all except their
dreams, begging for your hospitality.
I wish you would forget my inqignifieance when you hear my words I
would rather you would imagine before you the great bard himself. old with
the hurden of 3.0W yearq, leaning upon his staff, stooping and trembl'ng, with
face saddened by the tragedy of life which he knew more than anyone else.
and with blind eyes. blind to all that Is transitory as they are all seeing for
life's holiest dreams. He and not I should plead before you now. for he is
Homer. and these refugees of life are Homer's children.
The CHAIRMAN. If that completes your statement we will hear the next wit-
ness.
Mr. KALArDJIAN. May I be allowed to finish?
The CnAmA.'Y. It is 5 O'CloCk. How many witnesses have you here that
want to be heard?
Mr. Wurir. Well. Mr. Chairman, there is Mr. Watson. I do not know that
I am anxious to introduce any more witnesses.
STATEMENT OF MR. E. 0. WATSON, SECRETARY OF THE FEDERAL
COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, WASHIGTON, D. 0.
Mr. WATSON. I am secretary of the Federal Council of Churches, detailed
to the Washington office. I have only to say, first, what the Federal Council
of Churches is, If you desire to know, namely, the official organic and repre-
sentative body of 32 of the large asr Pome of the smaller Protestant denomina-
AMEMBOl OF NEAR PAST RRFUORM. 136
tions of the United States of America. It Is officially constituted-made up of
representatives of all those bodies officially appointed as a council, not as a con-
trolling body at all. I am asked by them to come before you on this occasion
and submit to you these facts: That they regard this matter as very urgent,
one to which the Federal Council is closely committed by its previou, official
actions, and one which, so far as we can judge, has the warm approval of our
constituent bodies.
I am asked to lay before you, In this connection, first a copy of action taken
by a conference of many organizations, Including the Federal Council, interested
In the Near East, as reported In the Federal Council Bulletin for OctoberNovem-
ber, 1922.
(The paper referred to follows.)
En',ussuo TIM CAHMTIA1 CoxscuccEu Nz&, EAsT Onists.
Nothing which the Federal council has done In recent months has been the
subject of so much favorable comment as Its prompt and vigorous action when
face to face with the crisis In the Near East.
The letter which has been sent to 100.000 Protestant churches in the.country,
dealing both with the International problem and with the question of relief,
is printed on another page. Nearly 1,000 replies to this letter have already
been received, telling what churches in every part of the country are doing
to arouse and create public opinion on our Nation's responsibility.
On November 8 an all-day conference of representatives of the religious and
charitable organizations Interested In the Near East was called by the Federal
Council to consider policies and to reach, so far as possible, agreement as to
plans for future work. The findings, presented to Secretary Hughes by Doctor
Finley, Bishop Brent, and Dr. Stanley White, are as follows:
"Whereas Secretary Hughes has definitely stated In his recent address at
Boston, when referring to the situation In the Near East. that this Govern-
ment has pledged Itself to see that the international obligations of the United
.States shall be met and that there shall be no confiscation or repudiation of
America's rights; and
"Whereas we believe that even more important than property rights are
human rights, Involving other people than ourselves and laying upon us in-
escapable moral obligation: Therefore be It
"Resolved (1) That we respectfully assure the President that we welcome
the statements of Secretary Hughes in regard to this Government's Intention
to stand for-
"(M) The freedom of the Straits:
"(b) The protection of religious minorities in the N.ear East.
"(c) The protection of American property rights and the lives of American
citizens;
"(d) The freedom to carry on religious and educational work.
"We believe these things can be more surely accomplished by the ap-
pointinenC of accredited delegates at Lausanne clothed with more power than
mere observers, and we believe this can be done without entangling America
in European political affairs.
"We also hope that America may have among her representatives at the
Lausanne conference some one from this country who is Intimately acquainted
with the humanitarian interests of the-Near East, and who Is so closely in touch
with present-day public opinion in America that he can voice the sentiment
which has expressed itself in the gifts for relief, missionary, and educational
work of over $120,000,000. In making this request we believe that we are
expressing the sentiment of approximately 50,000,000 members of the Chris-
tian churches of all faiths in America.
'(2) That we make definite request of the% administration at Whshington to
open the way for appropriate congressional action at the earliest moment, so
to modify the Immigration laws as to permit for a short time the eiltrance
of more than the present quota of persons from those countries from which the
stricken people of the Near East are now fleeing; it being understood that the
requisite evidence shall he given that they will not become public charges.
"(3) That we make an earnest plea that this Government use its powerful
Influence to secure for the Armenian people a protected national home, so that
the stricken people may not find in Soviet Russia their only friend, and that
America may enter Into its present opportunity of expressing again its historic
interest In oppressed peoples of other lands."
186 ADMIMSON OF NEAR EAST REFUGBES.
MASS MEEnO TO AOUSE PUBLIC OPINION.
On Sunday, September 24, only a few days after the tragedy of Smyrna, the
federal council held a great mass meeting at the Cathedral of St. John the
Divine, in Synod Hall, to voice the Christian sentiment of the country in
behalf of the American Government's assuming Its share of responsibility for
the prevention of further massacre. The crowd was so great that the police
had to close the doors, and an outdoor overflow meeting was held on the
cathedral grounds.
The speakers were Dr. Robert E. Speer, Rev. Harry Emerson Fosdick, and
Rev. James L. Barton. The presiding officer was Dr. John Finley, chairman
of the Federal Council's commission on international Justice and good will,
and editor of the New York Times. The keynote of all the addresses was that
the United States must assume at once its share of moral responsibility for
securing protection of the minorities in the Near East.
Doctor Speer, in announcing the purpose of the meeting, said:
"We are not here to feed the fires of hatred against the Turk, nor to pro-
pose war, nor to urge our Government to take sides on disputed political
issues. But we are here to declare our conviction that religious minorities
are entitled to protection, to appeal to our Nation to accept Its inescapable
duty in aidit-- and establishing a righteous peace in the Near East, and to
insist that the Armealan people are entitled to some home of their own where
they can be safe and able to take care of themselves."
APPEAL TO WASHINOTON.
The following resolutions were unanimously adopted and -forwarded to

Washington:
"The tragedy of Smyrna has astounded the world, and shocked the sensi-
bilities of all peoples of all creeds and religions. We, therefore, voicing, as
we believe, the strong conviction of the philanthropic and loyal people of
America, make the following appeal:
"First. That an immediate and generous response be made to the need for
food and clothing for the hundreds of thousands of absolutely destitute refugees
whose chief hope Is in America, and that the Near East Relief be requested to
use Its organization for this purpose.
iSecond. That we entreat the United States Government, the Allies, the
IAague of Nations. and especially France, wyhlch has entered Into treaty rela.
tionas with the Kenmalist Government, that measures be taken at once to pre-
vent future dtrucities und afford an adequate guaranty and protection to the
minority populations left under the rule of the Turk.
"Third. That because of the wide Interests of America In the right settle-
meat of these questions, the United States be represented In the forthcoming
conference on near eastern affairs."
A cablegram was forwarded to the secretary of the League of Nations, at
Geneva, "congratulating it for Its stand In behalf of protection of minorities
and the establishment of an Armenian national home." A cablegram to Mon-
sieur t'oincare, the French prime minister, appealed to France to take the lead
in affording protection to minorities.
()TILR SIAS$ MEETINGS AND APPEALS.
Similar mass meetings have been held In Chicago. Philadelphia, Boston, Seat-
tle, fmisville, aid other cities.
I ama asked al.soto)call your attention to the resolution adopted by the ad-
mlnistrative conmittee of the Federal Council, November 10, 1922:
"Whereas at Ellis Island many Greek and Armenian refugees from Con-
stantinople and Asia Minor coming to relatives in America are being denied
admission because the annual quota if innlgrants from Greece and Turkey
is exhausted; and
"Whereas American Greeks and Armenians desire to bring to safety in
Amer:ca their relatios now suffering privations after evacuating Smyrna,
Constantinople. and Thrace, but can not do so because the quotas for the year
are already full; and
"Whereas the enactment of restrictive immigration legislation can be made
compatible with the traditional American policy of offering an asylum In
emergency to victims of religious and political persecution: Therefore be It
"Reolved, That the Federal Council of Churches urge the administration
to take appropriate action to prevent exclusion of those refugees from Asia
Minor and Thrace now at our ports of entry, and to make possible for a
short time the admission of a limited number of such refugees in excess of
quota, coming to families who shall guarantee that they shall not become
public charges."
I am also asked to call your attention to the fact that the local federations
that have been formed in different cities of the churches, as organized in
these cities, have communicated their will and their wish that something
of this sort be done by this Congress.
I have here copies of letters front Dayton, Ohio, and Louisville, Ky., feder-
ation of churches. and letters that have just been received by the president,
Doctor Speer, setting forth some peculiar Individual conditions.
The CHAIRMAN. Without objection those may be placed in the record.
(The impers referred to follow:)
DAYTON CoUNCL. OF CHUscHXS,
Dayton, Ohio, December 11, 192.
31r. SAwuzii McCnw OAvzwS,
General Secretary, Federal Council of Churchee,
New York City, N. Y.
DEAR Ma. CAVEuT: I am glad to get a copy of Senate bill No. 4092, intro-
duced by Senator Keyes, concerning the admission of refugees from Turkish
territory. The Dayton Council of Churches, the Dayton Federation of Women's
Missionary Societies, and International Institute have been in touch with the
President and the Secretary of Labor concerning some refugees now being
held at Ellis Island. In addition, I have been in touch with our Senators and
find that they are willing to support a carefully wrought-out plan which will
meet this situation without breaking down our present immigration restriction
laws. Our Representative 14 Congress from this district Is also sympathetic.
Senator Willis, of Ohio, is a member of a committee on immigration to which
Senator Keyes's bill will no doubt be referred. He has promised me to vote
in favor of reporting out any such measures as may come before the committee.
Thanking you for drawing my attention to this matter, I am,
Very sincerely yours, I~tvIN E. DEnB, Elreective Scretrrj.
CHURCHMEN'S FEDERATION,
Loulsrille, Ky., December 13, 1922.
Hev. SAMUzE.3 CCREA CAVEt,
New York City.
Sin: Oftr federation, at its monthly meeting yesterday, wus unanimous In
favoring the passage of Senate bill 44)92. an act to permit the admission into
the United States of refugees front Turkish atrocities.
I am writing our Senator and Congressman to-day.
Yours, X. P. HUNT, E.recutire Rcretar.
r)r. IROBEnT E. SPtE..

Yew }aork City.
DEAu DOCTOR SPEER: We, Mr. and Mrs. Yervad Nlbantldian, UniteLd States
citizens, serial No. 1267547. beg you on banded kitee to save our long-lost but
nowly gained sister, Miss Shenorlidg Topouslan, on-ly living relative, frt de-
portation due to the Arnionlan quota, being fill(.
We belong to one of the oldest, largest, most united, inseparable, and loving
families of Sivals (our city fit Turkish Armena), and hare references to prove
the same. Twenty-one of the 25 members of our familly have suffered massa-
crage at the hands to tiWe slaughtering Turks. We beg you most hatbly to
save our poor sister, who already has suffered four years' slavery, from slavery
that knows no end and Is most degrading.
We sent a telegram (December 12) to President Harding and are awalt'ng

his favorable reply, yet, nevertheless, we beseech you as Christians to save her
from the hands of the torturing Infidel, and we feel sure that God wIll reward
you for your trouble and mercy. At present she, a good, upright, God-fearing
Christian, Is awaiting her fate at the doors of this country (Ellis Island). Oh,
please don't close the only portal of refuge from this poor girl who already has
nown so many years of the cruelest kind of torture, misery, and unhappiness--a
mere child of 10 torn from the side of loving friends and already a witness of
the massacre of 21 of her relatives.
We are more than willing to furnish any bond or any vou-her that you deem
necessary.
Thanking young again and again for your kind considerntlon of this prayer as It
were, and hoping that you will hear our cry and open your ears to our plea, we
beg to remain,
Gratefully yours,
AzNrv TOPOUSIAN NALANDIAIN.
YTRAND NAEnANDTAN.
FOR URGENT ACTION.

FEDERAL COUNCIL OF THE CHVUcHES OF CHRIST IN AMERICA,
New York, December 7. 1922.
The movement to secure permission for at least a limited number of refugees
from the Near East to enter America has now reached a point where vigorous
action Is needed from all of the local federations and councils of churches In
the country.
A bill was Introduced on December 4 into the Senate, known as Seiate bill
4092, by Senator Keyes, of New Hampshire, entitled "An act to permit the
admission Into the United States of refugees from Turkish territories." A
copy of the bill is Inclosed herewith. You will note that it guards the matter
carefully by requiring that all who come shall conform to the present Immi-
gration standards and shall come In care of relatives so that it will be! certain
that they will not become public charges.
There are already at Ellis Island Armenians and Greeks who are denied ad-
mission on the ground that the quotas for these groups are already full. Ac-
cording to the best estimate, the refugees from Turkish territory will total
nearly a million. It is obviously impossible for Greece alone to carry this
whole burden, as it means an addition of nearly 20 per cent to Its own popula-
tion. America must help in some way. Those who have studied the matter
most carefully, including representatives of the Near East Relief, the Y. W. C.
A., the Federal Council of Churches, and several of the denominations sep-
arately, agree that some such measure as that which is proposed by this bill
is called fur. The administrative committee of the federal council at Its last
meeting unanimously Indorsed the proposal that the council should use Its
Influence to create public opinion to make it possible for refugees to be ad
mitted.
Will you not do everything possible to secure the Interest of the Christian
forces of your city in this matter? We would suggest that letters be sent,
from as many quarters as possible, to representatives both in the Senate and
in the House, and that full publicity be given to whatever you do in the way of
resolutions or other measures.
Very sincerely yours, SAUVEL MCCSKA CAvar,
General Secretary.
Mr. !tANRa. When was this action taken?
Mr. WATsoN. On the 8th of November I believe the first acth'll was taket.
and It was reaffirmed this past week most emphatically lin IndianapolS, 1d.,
where there were gathered members of the executive comiIuittee, made up of
direct representatives of these churches.
Mr. IANE. Weje was it ,riglnlly acted upon? What ity?
Mr. WATSON. In New York City by the administrative tvimmittee.
The CHAIIA.. What was the (iate of the adoption" In ndlanpolts.
Mr. WATSON. In Indianapolis this past week, frow the 12th to 15th.
The CHAIRMANX. Did that have anything to do with the requ,st that these
hearings be postponed? Were there request.4 made ihat the.e iearing.s he
postponed on that occasion?
Mr. WATmON. Not that I know of.
Mr. WniT. Of coUrse, you understand that the administration has go power
In this matter and has no discretion.
Mr. VAivz. The resolution was not referring to the administration as the
,executive branch of the Government, but referring to the Government gen-
rally, I th!nk, congressional as well as executive.
Mr. WATSON. I, with Dr. John H. Finlay, Bishop Brent, and Stanley White.
appeared before Mr. Hughes and we discussed the matter in full detail with
reference to ill these questions.
Mr. RAKFM. Were you present when this matter was taken up by the confer-
ence In New York?
Mr. WATSON. No. sir.
Mr. ItAimL Nor Indianapolis?
Mr. WATSON. I heard the papers that were read there.
Mr. RIAKER. Would they have any testimony before them as to the general
conditions?
Mr. WATSON. We hied man after ian who was fresh from the field to make
addresses, such men as Bishop Nuelsen, whom you may know, and Robert
Speer, who liso Just come back from tours through that country.
Mr. HAKERH. 1 notice by that resolution you said they should be admitted
temporarily. Do you stand for that?
Mr. WATson. Yes; I stand for the admission in this particular case tempo-
rarily. I want to say, if I may, personally I am for a larger and wider thing
than is asked for.
Mr. RAKEK. What do you mean by that, Doctor? Explain it.
Mr. WATSO,. 'ersonally, I would like for this to be very much what our
chairman here ha% indicated that lie would stand for, "refugees." Personally
I feel and believe that the doctrine of the good Samaritan must apply indi-
vidually and that it must apply nationally, and If our American country Is to
live Is it has lived in the past there must be regard for the humanities; we
must meet such situations as this helpfully.
The CHAIRMAN. You are not in favor of restrictive immigration?
Mr. WATSON. Yes; I am decidedly, and particularly at this tihe III favor
of restrictive Immigration. I do not believe that te amne impulses that
existed lit the minds of the pioneers exist In the hearts and minds of thousands
who would now come to- America If those gates had not been put up, and 1.
thank God that they were put up just as they were. Now I will not go *on
speaking before you, but you understand me. I am tin favor of restricted
Immigration. Just now In the face of this emergency I am In favor of doing
something even larger than is proposed here in this bill, but'when you tell me
that we can not consistently---and I take it that you men know better titan -.
that we can not conslstenly do all that I would Ukeito do, then I say in (70d's
name, the least that we could do Is to let this man (referring to a naturalized
Armenian present) who is himself an American citizen, bring-his own mother,
If she were across there, here. Now then, I want to enlarge that as to all such
men in America who are American citizens. That, I say, is the least that we
can do. I
The CHAIRMAN. Then you came for a little more than this bill?
Mr. WATSON. I did not come for that. I came for that bill. I am telling
you that personally I would like to see something more In that bill, or some-
thing more than that bill.
The CHAIRMIAN. While you were at the State Department did you diseims
whether a bill of this kind would be a violation of the favorel-nations clauses
of our treaties?
Mr. WATSO.q. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You Fay you think the immigration restriction, which is
the only one we ever really had in the United States. was put tip at the right
time?
Mr. WATSON. I think it would have been very unfortunate if It had not been
put up. I wonder if it would not have been wise to put It up before it was
hit 11).
The CHAIRMAN. The various Congresses could not do It. Every restrictive
bill since the first administration of Grover Cleveland to the last fidmininstra-
tion of Woodrow Wilson was vetoed, because primarily it ended the United
States as an asylum. Now you come after a good deal of study and compli-
ment this committee and others by saying that the bars were lut up in the
nick of tim, You do not mean to apply that to any race of people, do you,
or any religion?
140 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEESS.
Mr. WATSON. That is not in my mind at all. Then I -%vish to say to you
that on the principle of humanity, If I follow you-I want to qualify what you
make me say by saying that on the principle of all the humanities, when you
put those quotas there properly, then there is a tragedy and a calamity such as
has been clearly shown you, aq has never been before in all the world's his-
tory: the least thing we can do it that wlien one of my own blood Is out
yonder in wreck and ruin. that I, as a eitizen-an American citizen-be
allowed to bring that one In.
Mr. RARM. You would make no distinction?
Mr. WHITE. You are in favor of all the restriction's that are written in the
law, the general law?
Mr. WATSON. So far as I know them I am.
Mr. WHITE. You are not In favor of admitting anyone that is criminal or
diseased or liable to become a public charge or that lelleves In the overthrow
of government by force mild violence?
Mr. WATSON. Certainly not.
Mr. WHITE. And you recognize, do you not, that this is an emergency
proposition?
Mr. WATSON. Certainly.
Mr. WHITE. And you know that we have already passed to the House and
the Senate one emergency proposition, nothing like as distressing as this nor
so extensive, and on account of the iniflexibility of our law, which is an experi-
ment and we think it hs succeeded remarkably well, being the first time we
have tried It in 135 years; that in this emergency, which is much more dire
and distressing. which appeals to all humanity, that we ought to go as far
as we can go.
Mr. WATSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHITE. And protect all of our Interests and not go any further?
Mr. WATSON. I think we could go even a little further than this.
Mr. WHITE. I say, as far as we can go safely.
Mr. W.%TSON. But when you men tell me that this is as far as you dare go,
I think you ought to go that far.
Mr. WHITE. I think so, too.
Mr. RAKER. It i8nice to play the part of the good Samaritan.
Mr. WATSON. Nice? It is salvation to your soul, brother. If you don't do it,
your soul is lost; I will tell you that right now.
Mr. RAKER. I want to ask you a question. It is very well for a government,
as far as It can, to play the part of the good Samaritan, bnt would you draw the
line as to whom you would apply it to?
Mr. WATSON. I do not.
Mr. RAKER. You would make no distinction?
Mr. WATSON. No.
Mr. RAKER. You would let the fellow come In here-now let me ask a ques-
ton-
Mr. WATSON (interposing). You are asking me leading questions--trying to
lead me.
Mr. RAKER. You would let the fellow come In here, then, who the very moment
he lands on our shores begins with his knife and torch to destroy the very Insti-
tutions that we have created?
Mr. WATSON. Haven't I answered that question?
Mr. WHrm. That Is not playing the good Samaritan.
Mr. WATSON. That Is not the question at all.
Mr. RAKER. Yes; It IS. You have to make a distinction, don't you?
Mr. WATSON. If there is a man out here to-night, and I hear him cry from my
home-I live Just out in Virginia-and I go out and find that some Ku-Klux, or
others, have attacked some poor fellow, I am going to try to help him. That Is
the individual gospel law. My gospel requires it of me. When I get to him I
am going to relieve him so far as I can. If I find that he Is the type of man
that you are Just now describing, I will turn him over to the authorities that
will take care of him under the powers of the law.
Mr. RAKER. Exactly. And you feel as though such laws and such restrictions
and such regulations shbuld be applied?
Mr. WATSON. On the other hand, If I find that It is a tender, sweet little baby
girl that has been abandoned out there, I will take her to my home, and my wife
will take her to her heart and say, "You can't take this darling away from me."
Mr. RAKER. That is good argument.
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES. 14i
The CHAIMAN. Now, I am afraid we have gotten into that very pickle our-
selves.
Mr. WATSON. Several times in my own life I have had some child come into
my life Just that way.
Mr. RAKER. We have two here now. We have the gentleman sitting at the
end of the table on my right and the lady sitting at the end of the table on my
left. Her story is wonderful, her personal experience is excellent, and then
from that reason, because we have let her In temporarily, you come and say we
should throw down the bars to all the balance. Isn't that about the situation?
Mr. WATSON. No; I have not said anything like that.
Mr. WHiT& You did not say that at all, did you?
Mr. WATSON. I have not said anything like that.
Mr. CHAIRMAN. Now here Is about the situation we are In. We saw fleeing
people everywhere as a result of the Word War; we saw broken people helpless
everywhere, and we felt that for the protection of the United States we should
have some restriction as quickly a% we could. We tried to get one form and we
got another. We sat here by the week, day and night, trying to write a little
flexibility in the law, to give somebody the last say. It was not possible to
write more. Then the first year of the new quota law we admitted in excess
about 2,400 aliens. We desired to Justify these admissions, all of which were for
various reasons, and last March, nine months ago, we managed to pass such a reso-
lution in the House and the Senate committee has Just passed it. In the mean-
time the number is a few hundred more. In the old immigration law there was
a clause permitting a person to be admitted under bond, under certain conditions.
That clause is In the nature of a loophole, and it had been used to Justify these
admissions under bond and the appeal continued and each time one is denied
the cry goes up, "You admitted this man's brother, why can't you admit my
sister?" And we all know pretty well that persons so admitted will be deported.
In addition to those persons admitted under bond, it the peculiar position
of being In the United States under bond, supposed to be temporarily in, we
have 200 feeble-minded and insane persons, who were admitted also under
bond, who were able to cross the seas iln time of war, but were unable to leave
in time of war on account of the perils of the seas, and they are in the country.
Mr. WATSON. With their bond expired?
The CHAIRMAN. The bond expired, and they are either in the homes of their
families or in the State institutions, and do you suppose there is any power
that can pick them up In spite of the heartrending appeals and get them out,
when the family is all here and all cry, " W here shall we send them Y The
boundaries of countries have changed." Now, see the predicament we are in.
Mr. WATSON. I know. I have in mind your difficulties. I have had many
of the same questions up and had to go through with them.
The CHAIRMAN. If an alien's nephew comes to our gates, and the nephew
turns out to be a feeble-minded boy of 10, he is at the door, and you couldn't
keep him out any more than you would out of your own house.
Mr. WATSON. I am not going to fall to save one Individual-or 1,000, I should
say, or 5,000, for fear I will save one wrong one.
The CHAMMAN. That is Just it. I have been over this thing from every
angle, and I find that all the people of the United States will rise up to save
one, and then say keep out 1,000,000.
Mr. WATSON. I know that, but all the same-
The CHA=RMAN (interposing). There has hardly been a day for a year and a
half that there hasn't been from one to five at my office begging and begging.
How long will a man stand it?
Mr. WATSON. I understand that, because even where I am hundreds of those
come to me who have nothing to do with the question and appeal to me. I
know what your troubles must be.
Mr. RAKER. I find some of my colleagues get a little bit cross at me becaurm
sometimes I am a little persistent in getting out the facts. Because I ask a
question it is sometimes taken that my opinion is so anl so. But be that as
it may, let me ask you this question: Have you stopped to think that what
the chairman has said that these 2,400 or thereabouts were at our shores
begging admission when this emergency resolution went through? A great
many opposed it entirely on the plan of the Good Samaritan, who was desirous
of getting money for bringing them over, and when we passed a law to make
a penalty on him, that Good Samaritan Is not bringing those people to our shores
Have you stopped to think about that?
Mr. WATSON. I have never thought of that, because you put altogether out,
if you will excuse me, of its meaning the word "Samaritan."
Mr. Rami. I know, I put it out strong.
Mr. WATSON. You are trying to use the word "profiteer" instead of "Samar-
itan."
Mr. RAx
K. No; I used the word "Samaritan" because you used it in the
sense of helping them.
Mr. WATSON. You use the word "1Samaritan" in the sense of a scoundrel,
a rascal; therefore I had never thought of the Good Samaritan as being that,
for he never was that, and the Good Samaritan ought not to be used as any-
body who does that sort of business. That was not the Good Samaritan, the
work that you are talking about.
Mr. RAKzE. Taking the view as you do In regard to the use of the words,
the Government was deceived by virtue of men who desired to make money.
Mr. WATSON. Possibly.
Mr. RAKER. And who had the same sad story, to a certain etxent, not
quite as much as now, to let those refugees into the United States. Did you
know anything about that condition when they sought to have these refugees
admitted?
Mr. WATSON. I do not know Just what you are talking about. I do not
see the bearing of Just what you are saying now.
Mr. RAKER. Don't you know that a year and a half ago there were some
15,000 people who desired to be admitted, that had been brought across from
the old country by the ships when this 3 per cent law took effect?
Mr. WATSONi. I know there was quite a bit of trouble on this side because of
that fact.
The CHAIRMAN. Who else wants to be heard now? I wish to thank all the
witnesses for their patience here today and the information they have given
the committee.
STATEMENT OF MRS. MeCORMICK, 14 WEST FRANKLIN STREET,
BALTIMORE, MD.
Mrs. McCoRMICK. I just got back a little while ago ftwu Constantinople,
where I helped to get a good many thousand people away from there. I was
very grateful to have been able to get them out.
The CHAIRMAN. You are connected with what organization?
Mrs. McConuicx. The Near East Relief.
The CHAIRMAN. How many employees has tiat association?
Mrs. MCCoRMICx. I have no idea. I happen to be a volunteer worker myself.
I have been there for four years.
The CHAIRMAN. Now your statement?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. My statement is simply this, that in those that I helped
to get out-not Near East Relief work but merely as a private individual-
every one of them had to go through a medical exauination with three Ameri-
can physicians-one for trachoma, one for mentality, and one for physical
fitness generally. Those were examinathns which had to be gone through
with and had to be paid for.
Mr. RAKER. How does it happen that. according to the Surgeon General's
report that was put in here, thousands of iople conste to this country diseased
and ought not to be admitted?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. I do not know. I cain only speak to you about the number
that I am familiar with. I know that they must have that examination before
they come. One boy was deported on the ship tht I went on-that I wenl
over on this summer. By one physician he was said to have trachoma; an-
other physician examined hint and said he did not have trachoma, and finally,
after nine months, he was deported.
The CHAIRMAN. These people were examined where?
Mrs. MCCORMtcK. In Constantinople.
The CHAIRMAN. At what place?
Mrs. McCoRMtCK. It was an American physician. I think it was the Greek
Tubercular Hospital where he had his headquarters, but he was an American
physician.
The CHAINMAN. NOW. they were examined prior to starting to the United
States by United States people, who assumed that authority because that
whole country is under a protectorate. Isn't that about It?
. SSIoN 41 NEA4 EAST Ruo S. 143
Mrs. MCCoamtCK. Because they do not want thema to come over to the United
States, knowing that they can not get in.
The CHAeMAn. But It Is possible for the United States, having something
to do with the Near East Relief, to set up that kind of a requirement-that
kind of an examination?
Mr. VATLK. And it not being necessary to negotiate with any foreign gov-
emnt by way of treaty, possibly, to do that.
Mrs. McCoRuicK. Yes. And I know that the American consul would not
give the passport-no; I am wrong about that. The passport was given with-
out that, but they would not receive them On board the ship. That was It.
3hv. VAiTJz. That was an arrangement fixed by the Near East relief for the
protection of these people.
Mrs. McCoRMicK. I do not know, but I know that was the arrangement, so
that I feel that those people who were over here in New York and who came
in recently It Is ilpossible that they can have trachoma and tuberculosis and
insanity and various other diseases, as has been reported.
Mr. BAKER. Isn't it strange that the Surgeon General and his assistants re-
port that, and they are among the best physicians In the world?
Mrs. McCon iucx. I do not know.
Mr. VAIL. I do not think that applies to those people, Sudge.
The CHAIRMAN. Were you In Constantinople at the time irregular Greek ships
loaded up with refugees from Constantinople for the United States, regardless
of quota?
Mrs. MCcORMICK. I was there during the mouth of October this year.
The CHAiRMAX. That was just prior to Christmas a year ago?
Mrs. McCoaRuct. No; during the month of October this year, 19..
Mr. RAKvR. How long were you in Constantinople?
Mrs. McCOMCK. I was in Constantinople about two weeks and a half, and
the Near East, and all, about five months.
The CHAIRUAN. Let us have your opinion as to the number of refugees in
Constantinople about the time you left.
Mrs. MCCoRMIcK. It was reported that there were 300,000 Greeks there be-
fore Mustapha Kemal Pasha ordered them to leave.
The CHAIRMAN. How many refugees are there In other countries?
Mrs. McCoRMCK. There were 12,000 orphans, and there were five refugee
camps that had just been established for the refugees from Smyrna, and the
number fluctuated for the reason that they were coming in every day.
The CHAIRMAN. You say there were 12.000 orphans from Smyrna?
Mrs. McC4RUICK. No; 12,000 orphans In all. A great many orphans had
been sent there from the Interior to Constnntinople because it had been con-
slderel safe. Then 1.000 came in just the week before I got there from Harput,
way up in the interior, up in here (indicating]. They were bound down here
to Bierut. and then for safety and convenience were marched up here to Con-
stantlnople. nobody believing that the Turks would be allowed to come Into
Constantinople.
The CHAtR AN. Now that last set of refugees was what nationality?
Mrs. McCoRmtcK. Altogether Armenians and Greeks.
The CHAIRMAN. Were there any Syrian refugees in there?
Mrs. McCoRuMcK. There are Assyrian refugees. There were a few Syrians.
The CHAIRMAN. When you say at few, about how many do you mean?
Mrs. McCosMiCK. Well, I think the Syrian refugees were put at 1,000. the
Syrians down h-re (indicating on map]. the As.yrIuns frot over in here.
There were supposed to be about 5,000 Assyrian refugees. They were driven
out of here and up Into Ru.sla, and finally worked their way either through
Russia down this way. most of them down this way [indicating), across the
Black Sea, and there was an Assyrian refugee camp there.
The CHAIRMAN. Are there any Russian refugees?
Mrs. MCIORMICK. Twenty thousand; yes.
The ChAmAN. That is a smaller figure than I have here.
Mrs. MCCORMICK. It is much smaller than It was, but that is the number
that was given when I was there.
The CRAIRMAN. That is much less than the number a year ago.
Mrs. MCCORMICK. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Were there any Persian refugees?
Mrs. McCoaucK. I think that the Assyrians probably would be clard
as Persian refugees, because you see they came from Persia. This section
25000-23--ssn 1-c- 10
144 ADMMSION OF NZ"A EAST PUGUME
in here (indicating on map] to Persia, and they were driven out from there
in the year 1918, a id marched down here 800 miles.
The CHArmAn. They have been marching all over that part of Asia, haven't
they?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. Yes, anywhere to find a home.
The CHAmAN. That gives quite a large number of refugees in Contanti-
nople about the time you left that are not included in the refugees now in
Greece at all.
Mrs. MCCORMICK. Yes, but I know .that a considerable number of those have
been taken out, and that many more orphans, refugees also, will be out by
the 21st of December.
The CHA/nMAN. Where will they be taken?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. They will all be taken down to the Nospitable shores of
little Greece. And I do not think we can give enough credit to little Greece
for the fact that she opens her arms and takes in all of these Armenian
children.
The CHARMAN. Hers is the principal responsibility, is it not?
Mrs. McCoiticx. She is not responsible for the Armenians any more than
we are responsible for the Armenians.
The OHAIRMAN. Didn't Greece inaugurate this last warfare?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. Absolutely no.
The CHARuAN. What have they been holding court-martials for and killing
their officials ?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. They have been killing the officials because they believed
those officials were responsible for the death of possibly 700,000 people, and
they killed them as you and I would have a court-martial and kill any man
whom we believed had committed a crime. I think it was a mistake on the
part of the Greek government, nevertheless that was the feeling that they had.
The CHAIRMAN. The mistakes of the Greek Government brought about a
great deal of this refugee situation.
Mrs. MCCOaMICK. I do not think it was a mistake of the Greek Government.
France, Italy, England, and Japan, the four great powers, and many others
that consummated the Versailles treaty, and by that treaty Greece was given
a little parcel of land here, and she was given a mandate over it; it was not
to last but five years, and at the end of five years there was to be a plebescite,
and It was to be decided then what their government should be. Greece held
to her part and the Turks did not, because the Turks by the same treaty were
to disarm their forces, and they did not disarm their forces; they kept coming
down here and attacking the Greeks, and the Greeks, therefore, had to drive
them back, and they were encouraged by England on the north and by France
on the south, down here In Cilicia, to come and help protect them, and then
at last France made her ignominious secret treaty in April, 1921. It was not
discovered until November, 1921, and then when she had done that, then the
Greek debacle began, ending in Smyrna, and when I was in Constantinople
there was only one country that stood firm, and that was England, and but
for England there would have been a massacre when I was In Constantinople.
Mr. RAKER. Why do you say these people were responsible for the destruc-
tion of about 850,000 people?
Mrs. McCoRMIcK. You mean those leaders that were killed-the Greeks?
Mr. RAKER Yes.
Mrs. McCOkMiCK. I do not think they were; I say that was the Greek
feeling.
Mr. RAKER. What people were those 850,000 that were killed?
Mrs. MCCORMIK. Those Greeks killed were-I don't mean that they were
all killed; I mean killed and driven from their homes. I did not mean to
say they were all killed. I mean killed and made homeless. Of course, that Is
the approximate number-not the exact number.
Mr. RAKe. Isn't this whole thing sort of a national and racial and religious
fight?
Mrs. MCCORMICK. The whole thing is war between Moslemism and Chris-
tianity. Every Moslem beliees-the Turks will tell you that it Is not true,
but the Koran teacher and they believe that every Moslem that kills a Chris-
tian is entitled to a place in heaven, if he kills two he gets a higher place, and
I suppose If he keeps on he gets to the top of heaven and goes right out through
the roof, because there would be no place high enough for him.
Mr. RAKER. And they have been working that thoroughly right along?
ADMISION OF NEZA FAST REFUGe. 140
Mrs. MC(a0n xcK. It has been entirely on account of the disagreement of the
Christian nations at the end of the war, on account of our withdrawal into our
splendid Isolation, so that we had no responsibility at all for anybody else
in the world. The Turk was absolutely whipped-a whipped dog. He I
a. bully and, therefore, a Coward, as every bully Is, and when the Christian
nations began to quarrel among themselves he began to get up, and when at
last It was determined that we were not going Into the League of Nations but
would keep our splendid isolation policy, and when It developed that France
and England were pulling away from each other, the Turk got up and said:
"I won the war. Death to the Christian." And the Turk to-day Is saying
that he won the war, and he is encouraged In that by the attitude of the
United States, England, France, and all the rest of the world.
Mr. RA n. Your theory I that as long as the Turk exists with his Ideas,
with his Koran as his guide, this constant friction of war and fighting will con-
tinue?
Mrs. McCoamwic. Will this be made public? Can I make a statement from
Admiral Bristol that will not be made public?
Mr. VAILE. Make It.off the record,-if you wish.
Mrs. McCoumcuc. I had better not. I will say what my personal opinion Is.
My personal opinion Is that so long as any Turk rules over anybody else save
himself-and he can not rule over himself even-but so long as he rules over
anybody else save himself, then so long will he be a nucleus for war.
The CHAiMA.. We agree with you, and that statement was made to this
committee over a year ago. All this thing was brought out here a year ago.
Mrs. McCoRMcK. But what has been done?
The CHAIRMAN. At that time the prediction of the massacre was frequently
maile. and It Is now predicted you wl have other massacres..
Mr. ItAlxk. How can this be helped?
Mrs. 3McCocic. It can be helped if the United States will stand with the
rest of the world and take Its place as a factor in the world.
Mr. ItAKEn And send our boys over there to fight with those fellows?
Mrs. McConIIjcK. I could go out here and in a week get 10,000 volunteers.
Those splendid Greek boys that fought In our Army during the war, and the
Armenian boys, would enlist and go over there and fight. And don't forget
that from here, from Batoum to Baku, the Armenians held that line for seven
months and a half against the Turks, so that Gen. Igna Patra said, "Had it
not been for the resistance of the Armenians in the Russian Caucasus we
would have had the entire Mohammedan world at our backs and defeat would
have been Impossible." And the German commander In chief of the entire
Turkish Army said, "Had it not been for the Armenians in the Russian au-
easus I would not have been forced to divide my army and leave only one
division of my army for General Allenby to fight against." And don't forget
that General Allenby had to stay for 24 days in one place fighting that one
division, and if he had had two divisions of the Turkish Army to fight he
might not'have won.
Mr. R&in. Have you thought about the fact that with the Moslems or the
Turks, with our situation over here in the United States. that if we sent our
hoys in there. no difference what their nationality might have been. American
citizens, that we would simply he entering into a religious war tlat would
nmean either the exterminatlon of one or the other?
Mrs. McCoRmneK. Absolutely not. We have te golden apple of Hesperides
and the Turk wants a bite. The American flag is potent to-day over there and
American citizens are protected simply because the Turks are afraid that
some day we might wake up. we might do something. and the 400 boys that were
saved down there in the Armenian orphanage. how were they saved? By the
power of two American flags* nothing else in the world but those American
flags.
Mr. RAKER. Well, the statement hos been made here. Mrs. McCormick. that
Americans were not protected in thit country; tlt they killed them. took their
property. and killed them.
Mrs. McCoRitcx. Up In the interior. You remember thitt Tlat Bey fi oe
of his official messages captured at Alleppo by General Allenby said: "The
American consul and others are beginning to doubt the truth of our statements
that the deportations are for agricultural purposes; therefore let a show of
gentle feeling and courtesy be made toward Christians when they are near
cities where there are foreigners, and let the usual measures be carried out In
the usual places." That was one of the "usual places" In the Interior wJiere
the Turk did not think anything would happen.
Mr. ItAXes. Is it your view, now, from a personal Inspection, having traveled
over that country and having given a great deal of thought to the sltuat'on in
the Near East, that with the Turk as the disturbing element, situated as we are,
the United States, do you think that we omld go over there and adjust this
matter?
Mrs. McCoMxicc. Absolutely we could. But that, of course' Is entirely off
the question that we are discussing to-day. Now, please remember I am not
discussing that question, because that Is taking it entirely away from the
subject. I simply came to discuss one question which was In the chairman's
mind, and what I have been saying now is all say own opinion and must not
Interfere with the thing that is before you. Personally I believe like Mr.
Watson, I should make It stronger if I was doing it myself, but we are talking
for the bill now before you.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you read Stoddard's book on "The Revolt of Islam"?
Mrs. McConMicK. I have only read a small part of that.
The CHAIRMAN. Are you Inclined to agree with it?
Mrs. McConutcK. Absolutely.
The CHAIRMAN. We are much obliged to you. Mrs. Meorm!ck.
Now, did you want to complete your statement, Mr. Kulaidjtan?
Mr. KA ATwiANf. I have not much more to say. except this, gentlemen, that
we are not esking you to open the gates; we are only asking that the rights and
feelings of American citizens who are here In this country should be considered
by the committee and Congress and should he given at least a very small privi-
lege to do what they can do for their blood relations who are now it desperate
condition. And one more word, we would like to have whatever action you
propose to do done as soon as possible. It the committee will report it to the
House, we would like to know If the H~ouse Is going to do something or not.
because It is winter and those people are dying. In fact, some of the refugees
that came this month, on December 8, after they had taken the train and were
under way one woman who came to see Mrs. KalaidJian died. I buried her.
She was from Greece. and she has a daughter there very sick. and I don't know
whether she will survive. There are hardly any of those people but have
been to the hospital. and If those people are in that condition when they get
over here you can Imagine what the conditions of the people must be over
there.
The CHAIRMAN. NOW, would you agree to have this Ill amended so that it
would read that those who had taken out their first papers not less than two
years ago might bring certain refugee relations?
Mr. KALATDIAN. Well. I suppose-- would rather have it that it a tian ha
declared his intentlon-I do not want it so that If a man has not been here
more than a year and a half he will ip prevented from bringing Ids mother or
sister. It a man Is bona fide and going to stay here and make this country his
home, I do not see why we should not help h,.
The CHAIRMAN. If he had been here a (lay and a halt you would not like to
have him have the same privilege? He can get hi, papers in a day. can't lie?
ri. KALAIDJITAN. Well. If he is In a position to say, and to show by other
witnesses, that he can take care of the relative that he wants to bring, I do not
see why we should put any restrictions, because, as you say. the number fiq
not very many.
Now the question has been asked several ties. Mr. Chairman, why is there
so much propaganda on the part of the Christian people of America for only
5,000 people? Well. I am going to ask the question why is the committee rising
so much question If It is only 5.000. That will only be a drop in the bucket to
this country. It Is not going to hurt anybody. I think we ran stand 5.000 more
Armenians and Greeks.
The CHAIRMAN. I am trying to find out If It Is only 5.000, and I can't find
anyone that will say that the Armenians ad Greveks combined would litonly
5.000.
Mr. KAL Ar.wAN. Well, as far as I can see-
Mr. WiIITr. (Interposing). They can not say that.
Mr. KALAIITAN. Nobody can say any definite number.
Mr. Wnt=. In my bill I do not say that. We did not know how manny English
we would admit; we did not know how mny Germnns we would admnt. We ail
missed our geRss. We can not krow about those things.
ADMI88ION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEE, 147
The CHAIRMAN. You could state the maximum. Vouid you be willing to
have a maximum figure placed in this bill of 90AMO00
Mr. KALA.IDJLI.N. Well. I would not for this purpose, that every nuto or
American citizen, his relatives aie as dear to him as yours and mine are to on,
tnd by putting any limit-! would hate to leave out anyone just now because
they happen to be the unlucky number. They are just as human as we are
and I would hate to place any limitation In number. Not that I think there will
be over 80.000, but I do not want to have any limitation that will deprive any
single Individual from coming.
The CHAIRMAN. How long did you say you have been in the United States?
Mr. KALAaIDAN. Twenty years.
The CIIARUtAN. Did you get any of your relatives In?
Mr. KALAiDjiax. Well, I have got a sister and a brother in this country.
The CHAIRUAN. How long have they been here?
Mr. KALAIDIAN. My brother came only about a year ago. My sister came
before the war, I am glad to say.
The CHAIRmAN. How many relatives are you calculating on bringing In?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. I have only one brother and sister in this country, and my
brother's son, my nephew. That 1i all the relatives I have.
The CHAtaMAN. Are you connected with any of these committees on immigra-
tion policy?
Mr. KALAiDJIAN. No; I an not a member of them. I am a member of the
Y. M. 0. A. staff. I am not a regular member of the immigration policy com-
mittee, except that I have made a study of the Armenian Immigration to this
country. Of course, I do not think the committee-I did not understand the
committee was blaming me for knowing these figures, because they are public
property. I think every man ought to know something about the conditions
of Immigration. Of course, naturally, I have made a study for the interchurch
world movement.
Mr. RAxzm. Nobody is blaming you, only the fact is that for the last 12 years
every effort has been made to get a registration of the people that come to this
country, or those that are here that are not citizens, and we always find organi-
zations preparing to defeat such legislation.
The CHAIRMAN. Let iue ask you this: Would you favor a registration law
for aliens In the United States at a low fee, If that fee was In lieu of other
naturalization fees?
Mr. KMAJDAN. Well, I think that there i no harm In that. I would not
oppose any such movement, because my position is that If I had a part in
making laws I would not admit anyone to the United States who Is not coming
bona fide to become a citizen and make this country his home. And another
thing, that whatever I charge to the Immigrant or alien, that money I would
use for the work of Americanization. I see from your report that over
$11.000,000 has been taken from the immigrants, but very little of that money
has been spent for Americanization.
Mr. ItAKI. Have you observed how much has been expended to take care
of these same aliens?
Mr. KA L-AIAN. Well, I notice our chairman says that 7 per cent of the
money received has gone to the support of these dependent aliens In this
country.
The CHAIRMAN. Seven per cent of all the money raised from State taxation
in all the States.
Mr. KALAJOJIAN. But I would say this, that our immigrant population, aliens,
are about 88 per cent, so that perhaps 7 per cent is not so much when you
compare that with the number of people here.
The CHAIRMAN. I do not mean the Immigrant population naturalized; I mean
the unnaturalized alien in the country.
Mr. RAxn. May I ask the source of your Information?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; the printed copies of the committee's hearings on that
subject will be ready soon. The figures are based on the census of peniten-
tiaries and eleemosynary institutions of the State.
Mr. KATIDJIAN. That may be a liability against the aliens, but we must
consider the assets; what they have contributed.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you favor restriction of Immigration?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Well, I believe in selective Immigration.
The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by "selective Immigration "?
I48 ADMISSIO OFIA
N EAST RBFUBES.
Mr. KALaINJIAN. That we should br;ng here all those who are fit physically
and mentally to make good Amaetlan citizens.
SThe OHAmMAN. From any and all countries?
Mr. KAijkuN. Yes, sir. I do not think, so far as the new Immigration
and old Immigration is concerned, that so much distinction ti made. I do not
think there is much difference. At some time In the history of every race that
race has shown superior qualities, like Greece In olden times; Rome in olden
times. Nations, like individuals, come up and go down. To-day America is at
the height of Its glory, but who knows where we will be 100 years from now?
Mr. VAILE. That is Just what we want to prevent.
Mr. KALAIDJJAN. I am Just as Jealous as anyone of this country and Its
success.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you given any study to what sent tihe nations of Greece
and Rome down?
Mr. KAL.DJIrAN. Well, yes; it was indulgence more than anything else-
decay, demoralization. I think that the Idea that mixed races make weaklings
of people is not true, because our country Is an example of that.
Another thing I might say of the Turks. A few minutes ago you were ask-
Ing the Greek professor about them. They are the most mixed people In the
world. They used to be Tartars, Turcomans; to-day they are almost like Cau-
casions because they have Intermingled so. They have taken so many of the
Armenian and Greek and other Caucasian people, and have taken their bodies
into their national life, that they have been changed altogether.
Mr. RAKEn. That is what I asked you awhile ago-if that occurred, and I
was told. It did not. Now, as a matter of fact, there is a very large amount
of Intermarriage.
Mr. KALAIDJIAX. As a matter of fact, Mustapha Kemal Pasha is a Spanish
Jew from Saloniki, who has become a Mohammedan. His father was a Jew,
a Jewish convert. Kemal Pasha is a Mohammedan now, but so far as his
blood Is concerned he Is a Spanish Jew. He has blue eyes and light hair.
There is nothing Turkish about him, and you can say that about many of them.
Some of the worst Turks are second-generation Christians. That is a fact.
Some of the worst Turks are second-generation Christians who have forgotten
about their past.
Mr. RAKER. Then, as a matter of fact, Doctor, it is not a national question
so far as the racial question-so far as the Turk Is.concerned? He is mixed
up with everything from the wild man to the Negro. Isn't that right?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Yes; every mixture. You see, Mohammedanism Is a very
democratic religion. Whenever a man becomes a Mohammedan he marries any
race without distinction, so It is a very mixed race.
The CHAIRMAN. The same thing Is permissible In the United States, Is it not?
Mr. RAKEs. It Is not In California.
Mr. KArAIDJIAN. Now, the whole thing Is this: The common Turkish people
are so Ignorant and so fanatical that when the leaders rule that they must
wipe out the Christians, which Is the opposition to their government, that is
a political business. This Is not a purely religious fight; the Turks say:
"Now we want one race-the Turks, no Christians--so that the European
powers will not interfere with our internal affairs."
Mr. RAxEn. May I put it this way: The Turks are an intermixture. The
first race was--what did you call it?
Mr. KALArDiJAN. Tartars.
Mr. HAxu:. Now that Includes the Russians, it Includes the Jews, It In-
cludes the Armenians, It includes the Negro-in fact, all of them, doesn't It?
Mr. K4 AwInaN. Well, there is some blood of all, at one time or another.
The Arabs have mixed with them, the Saracen Turks, the Yuryuk, and
Ottoman Turks, and they have mixed with Tartars and Greeks. You see
when they invaded Asia Minor in those days they killed a man and took
all the women and the little boys and girls an.d brought them up as Moham-
medans, Just as they intended to do this tirte.
Mr. RAKER. And they are good strong Mohammedans now? Once a man
is a Mohammedan he Is a good one?
Mr. KALAIDJUN. Well, usually there is only one kind of Mohammedan.
MHIs religion rules him.
Mr. RAxza. That Is what I meant. He believes strongly In that particular
doctrine.
Mr. KALAIDJ AN. I have one of the official prayers, Mohammedan prayers
here. Shall I read it?
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEE. 149
Mr. RIjzr Yes; it may do some of my colleagues here some good to read it.
Mr. KAlmIAN. This is an ofielal prayer of Islam, which is used through-
out Turkey daily:
"I seek refuge with Allah from Satan the redeem (the accursed). In the
name of Allah the cmpassionate, the merelful! 0 Lord of all creaturesI
0 Allah I Destroy the infidels and poly-heists, Thine enemies, the enemies of
the religion ! 0 Allah I make their children orphans, and defile their abodes,
and cause their feet to slip; and give them and their families and their house-
holds, and their women, and their children, and their relatives by marriage,
and their brothers, and their friends, and their possessions, and their race,
and their wealth, and their lands, as booty to the Moslems, 0 Lord of all
creatures I"
That is just exactly what they are practicing, you see. That Is their religion.
Mr. RAIME. Well, as I asked one of the other gentlemen, It Is a fight to the
death, and in this country as long as there is that division between the
Christian and the Turk, the Moslem, who believes in the Koran, there will
be that cleavage and that fight for territory.
Mr. VAmt& And there will always be refugees.
Mr. KALAtIMIAN. No; this will be the last one. I think I may say thatnow the
Turks will clean up the whole country and there will be no Christians left, so
there will be no more massacres.
Mr. VAttz. Mrs. McCormick stated that as long as the Turk was fit control
there would he these clashes.
Mr. KA!AimiNiAN. There will be nobody else to control. They have cleaned
up the whole country now. The last of the Armenians, 180,000 of them, are
being driven out, so that if they carry on their plans, there will be no other
race there, no Christian race under Turkey. They will be all Mohammedans.
Mr. WHiTe. What do you know about (onstantinople?
Mr. EALAIDIAN. Of course, I don't know what they are doing in Con-
stantinople during the discussion at Lausanno.
Mr. RAKER. You made a statement that may he very widely published.
What is your authority for the nativity and racial character of the present
ruler of the Turks!
Mr. KALAIDJAN. Well, I have an article written by a Turk In this country
and In that article lie says that Mustapha Kemal is of Jewish origin; that lie
is from Saloniki, and there are a good many Mohammedans In Salonlki, like
Kemal Pasha and others, who have been very prominent In the young Turk
movement. Mostly they are what they call "durnemat "-that Is, converted.
They were converted years ago, but nevertheless, like the Armenians, they are
of other blood but they have been converted and become Mohammedans. So
after they become Mohammedans in Turkey nationality Is not based on race,
it is religion. If I decided to become a Mohammedan to-day tley would call
me a Turk. They would say, "Mr. Kalaihjian has become a Turk." They do
not say, "He became a Mohammedan," but that I became a Turk, Instead of
"Mr. KnI&idjian has become a Mohammedan," or "Mr. Kalaidjian has become
a Moslem."
Mr. RAKER. There might he some in this country that do not have to go
there to become Turks.
Mr. KALAIDJAN. And I might say that most of these prominent Turks, the
leaders, foreign ministers, and generals, it you will investigate, are of
Christian origin. The Turks themselves are bankrupt. In fact, the German
doctors who went there said that the Turk is fast disappearing as a race,
because of his racial Impurity and because of their unclean living and Ignorance
of sanitary conditions. They are passing away except they have been recruit-
ing from the Christians.
Mr. RAxKER. Then, these leaders that have been conducting this warfare, that
have been perpetrating these massacres, are converted Christians who have
been converted to the Moslem faith?
Mr. KALAIDJIAN. Or of Christian descent.
Mr. RAKER. They are the ones that have been creating this trouble?
Mr. KALAIDAN. Because they are Mohammedan and they have become
Turks. Everybody knows that Mustapha Kemal Pasha is of Jewish origin.
The CHAIRMAN. If there are no more witnesses, I think we can adjourn now.
(Mr. Kalaidjian submitted the following papers:)
150 ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGES.
ARMENAN FAMILIES WHO HAVE NEi AELAIV. M TIns COVNTRY-SMYRNA CASES.

I. Mr. Aved Ergat, age 29, address 4029 Broadway, New York City; American
citizen; ex-serviee man; father, Rev. Ashod Ergat, of Ciesarla, aglnlster of
Armenian Church, killed brutally in the massacres of 1915. The rest of the
family, mother, Mrs. Isgouihie, and youngest sister, aged 14, were sent to exile
in Syria; also two married Sisters, Mr. and Mrs. Arulanan, amd Mr. and Mrs.
Sashbtoullan. The husband of the second sister was killed ois the way. The
Arslanian family returned to Cecilia after the armistice as the safest Spot for
Armenians under French protection. Mother and youngest daughter came to
America to join the son. In the evacuation of Cecilia of October, 1921, t
Arslanlan family fled to Smyrna. Husband died on the way from exposure.
Then the Smyrna disaster. Sister and three children, also other sister, both
widows, are now waiting in Constantinople to join their brother here.
2. Dr. and Mrs. Housepian, address 124 East TweLty-fonrth Street, New York
City; American citizens. Mrs. Housplan Is it native of Ismudt, Asia Minor.
Parents, Mr. and Mrs. Kirkor AshJian and four sons, OinUg, Stepan, Kegham,
Artaki. Deported to the Interior of Asia Minor in the deportations of 1915.
One son, Artaki, was an officer Ii the Turkish Army. They returned to Smyrna
after the armistice. During the Smyrna disaster the father was killed just as
he was stepping into one of the boats carrying refugees. The two older
brothers have been taken captives by the Nationalists. One brother Is a student
In Germany, and the fourth Is studying art In this country. The mother has
been taken all alone to the Island of Mytilene with the rest of the refugees. She
has no one on the other side. Her daughter and son-in-law are most anxious to
have her Join them In this country.
8. Mr. Mugrditich Topallan, bookkeeper; address, Palais des Beaux Arts, New
York City; American citizen, 12 years in this country; native of Smyrna;
father, Takvor Topalian, prosperous merchant in Smyrna; mother, Mrs. Nouriza
Topalian, was in this country with her son for five years; returned to Smyrna
to bring the family over. Now their home has been burned, the shops looted.
father killed, mother and three daughters, Shahnaz, S'ranoush (graduate of the
American College in Smyrna) and the youngest daughter, Zurvert, under 16
years of age, are now refugees in Athens waiting to join their son In the United
States.
4. Paul Papazian, 10 years In this country, American citizen, ex-service man:
address, 510 West Seventy-sixth Street, New- York City; mother, Marian Papa-
slan, sister Artemian, and brother Aram, all In this country. Her home has heen
burned in Smyrna; father is the only one on the other side; is now refugc4, in
Athens; would lke to join his family in this country.
r-. Sarkis Sarafmn, American citizen; address, 288 Audubon Avenue, New
York City. Just returned from Smyrna, representative of an automobile supply
company; was in Smyrna during the disaster. Escaped on the U. S. destroyer
Simpyon. Father and mother killed on September 11. Sister with three daugh-
ters (Siralpi, 15 yeais old; Shake, 2; Alice, 11). Four brothers in this country,
two of them American citizens, one of them ex-service man; have been 10 years
In New York City.
6. Mr. Hagop Tomasslan, 52 Grant Avenue, Staten Island. American citizen,
business man, established 11 years. Parents, 8 sisters, and brother (whole fam-
ily) is with him; has a sister, Mrs. Rosa Bedrosslan and four children, refugees
at Skopelos Island, Greece. Ifer husband, Nlsak Bedrossian, missing; ages,
Rosa Bedrosslan, 80; children between 8 and 9 years.
7. Rev. Katteos Manigulan, farmer, R. F. D. No. 1, Belle Mead, N. J.;
Hapet Manigulan taken captive by the Turks; the wife, Mrs. Arshaloisbrother Mani-
gulan, and four children-Ashken 16, Egul 18, Alice 11, Garabed 6, are refugees
in Patras. Address Mrs. Arshalois Manigulan, Rue Yerocostopoulo No 3, Patrnas,
Greece.
8. Takvor Hagopian, 90 Lexington Avenue, New York City; American citizen;
was In Smyrna during the fire; rescued on U. S. destroyer Simpson. His brother,
Stepan Hagopian, American citizen; another brother, Armonag Hagoplan; sister,
Anniaga Hagopian; and married sater, Haiganous Yeranlan, and three children
are refugees in Smyrna waiting to come to the United States.
0. Hrant Tashj!an, 134 East Twenty-seventh Street, New York City; American
citizen, ex-service man; the father killed in the Smyrna disaster; the mother,
ADMIION OF NEAR EAST REFt.TOES. 151
Elizaboth Tashjian, the sister, 19goulle Tashjlan, are in Athens. The brother,
Onnig Tashjian, and h's wife are in Marsetlte-all refugees waiting to come to
the United States.
10. Takvor Firehadourian, citizen, ex-service man, 90 Lexington Avenue; was
in Smyrna during the fire, was rescued on destroyer Simpson. Cane to New
York on the steamship Oonantinepl6 on December 8. His parents, Rev. Kapriel
Hachadourian, mother Flor Haehadourian, sister Marie Hachadourian, are all
refugees In Athens waiting to come to United States.
11. Arshag Avaklan, 128 East Twenty-seventh Street, New York Oity; Amer!-
can citizen ; ex-service man; father killed during Smyrna disaster. The mother
Serpouhle Avaklan, the uncle Yngla Avaklan, are refugees In Salonlca wa't.ng
to come to United States.
Mr. WnzT. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cotton has some evidence that he wants to
put Into the record. I will ask that it be admitted. He will give his name to
the reporter.
STATEMENT OF THOMAS L. COTTON, 215 WEST TWENTY-TIRD

STEENT, NEW YORK CITY.
The CHAIRMAN. What Is your business, Mr. Cotton?
Mr. COTTN. Y. M. C. A. secretary.
The CHAIlAN. How long have you been in the Y. M. C. A.?
Mr. CoTToN. Five years.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you been in the Near East?
Mr. COTTON. I have been to tussta and the Scandinavian countries mostly.
I never got into the Near Est, but I have very close connection with the Near
East through my work, which is with Greeks, Armenians, Russians, and
Italians.
The CHAIRMAN. In the United States?
Mr. COTTON. Here in New York City.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you favor restrictive immigration?
Mr. COTTON. I favor immigration selected.
The CHAIRMAN. What do you menu by "selected "?
Mr. COTON. I mean selected on the other side, the only way it can be
worked out.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you think it can be worked out?
Mr. CoTrox. I trust to the brains of our statesmen to get It worked out.
The CHAIRMAN. Would it be done by treaty or would it be done by law in the
United States?
Mr. COTTON. I think it would have to be done by treaty.
Mr. ItAKER. You would have some men selected at a point out here, 10 or 15
people, and they would pick the ones they wanted to come to this country?
Mr. VAXUC. No; the people would have to pass certain tests.
Mr. IAjER. Now, I want to know the gentleman's viewpoint. He knows
what he means by "selection"; what is it?
Mr.CorroN. I mean this, gentlemen, that there would be an attach, a consul,
or some man designated in each place where we have a consul, to look after
this matter; that he would find the people in that neighborhood or In that
locality that want to come to America, pick out the best ones, and let them
come to America.
The CHAIRMAN. YOU understand the other countries are objecting now to
the fact that we are asking the consular offices for a little bit more than wa
agreed upon when these consular offices were set up? You realize that?
Mr. CoTrON. Yes, sir. I wish to submit the following resolution:
" RESOLUTION PASSED BY THE INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION OF Y. M. C. A'S., AT
ATLANTIC CITY, NOVEMBER 14-10, 1922.
"Be it resolved, That this convention express its profound s.npathy for the
persecuted Christian minorities in the Near East; that we commend the great
work of the Near East Relief; and that as citizens of the United States and
Canada we request our respective Governments to use all reasonable and
152 ADJMION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES.
righteous means not only for succor and assistance but for the prevention of
a recurrence or extension of the present terrible conditions."
This represents the attitude of 800,000 members of the Y. M. 0. A.
Mr. C orroN. I arise in the midst of all this recitation of the moving scenes
In the Smyrna catastrophe to bring your minds back and rivet them with
renewed attention on the bill which the honorable Congressman from Kansas,
Mr. White, has introduced into this committee. This act-
1. Defines "relative" so as to cover (a) immediate family circle and (b)
blood relations only for uncle, aunt, orphan, nephew, or niece.
2, Defines "refugee" so as to make it Impossible for any person not a bona
tide refuge from Turkish territory and Turkish aggression to be benefited
under this act.
3. Places responsibility upon persons now living in the United States of
America. A citizen or declarant for citizenship way petition for the right to
bring over relatives who are refugees as stipulated.
4. Such petitions are safeguarded by certain requirements and regulations
defined in detail.
5. The locating of and verification of such refugee, relatives as are petitioned
for Is arranged for by (a) coopertlon of consular representatives in the Near
East. (b) cooperation of agents specially des!gnuted to do so. and (c) ofli-
clally recognized American relief organizations.
U. Admits such refuges petitioned for under this requirement without dis.
turb.ng fle quota regulations for those nationalities.
7. Does not Interfere with the operation of quota regulations over all other
persons.
8. Poes not modify in tny respect the operation of the regular Inmigration
law of 1017.
9. Is clearly, as its nanie implies, an act for Near East refugees only.
This act itis nothing to do whit tile deliate on restrictive ininilgration ; not
over 5.000 or 1O.4") will colmt. It is an emergency act designed solely to bring
some measure of relief to tie misery ilitile Near East and to permit families
to be united amd thus to take care of their own. The piassage. of tills hillwill
lave i10inflluence whalsoever upoLn lip colivtr.vrsy iow raging over te whole
great imniwgratilon problem. because--
(a) It Is lot till llttack t11 laio'r. for largely wi.nten and children are
coming.
b) It is not lttting in vast uuassimilable uasses-not over 10,000.
(r) It is not a precelent. because tile situation is without parallel..
(d) Those let li will not lbecotie public charges.
(e) It is not contrary to " ftvored-nations" clause in our treaties, because
refmegees (if any citizenslill may come in from stipulated territory.
I hall from Wyonmlug, arid perhaps you wonder why I am Interested in this
hill.
Well. first,because of tilevery nature of lily work. I ani li charge of the
deparlnellt for work with foreigmi-horn men at Twenty-third Street Y. M. C. A.
In New York City. I have associated with lie seven men and wonien who are
foreign born. Since tie Samyrm disaster we have had a veritable stream of
it-ople through our office seeking tt kiow the fate of theIr relatives who
were lit8nmyrna. I)o yoll 411ilssepIlat I could go to my ofllce tiay by day
to hear such tile. as lave been to.,! here this morning aid return to lilyown
healthy. happy child in his (4z.p'cornier tiid not feel guilty If I didn't do
something? /
lint after all, it Is not a nvll:Jr of uogh. it is a matter of humanity.
Have any one of you ]lad|jA olnle ini lost it? ]lave you known tile sound
of a voice or tie louch of n hand that is goni?
Have you known tlie love of little ciildrei? (ill you imagine yourself torn
from them mid (lie uncertainty of their subsequent existence without you?
Is there one here who has not known tile comforts of a holite and the tender-
ie" of a wonm1ami?
Thank God, I have a home dear as life to me and a heart which drives tie
to plead for mercy for he les fortunate. To give my last ounce of energy
for the passage of this bill Isthe least price I can pay at this joyous Christ-
mas time for my home and comfort. Gentlemen, can you do less?
Mr. Wnrm. I would like to have you hear Mrs. Bremer, of New York.
STATEXENT OF MRS. MANY X. 2=3MU, NATIONAL ROAXD,
Y. W. C. A., NEW YORI CITY.
Mrs. Bitemys. I am the head of the national department for work with
foreign-born women.
The CHAIRuMA.. That location Is down among them. is it?
Mrs. Brnuro. Very much among them. I have been doing that Amerleaniza-
tion work for 12 years. I would like to submit a witten statement before the
time is gone.
The Ci AmMA.. I want to ask you, Is that a pretty good American conuunity
down there around Iexlngton Avenue, New York?
Mrs. Bnumz. Oh, yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there any part of it that Is not so good?
Mrs. Bnnzitn. My work is national work. I have work in niany cities.
The CH.itu.%N. But your headquarters are in New York City?
Mrs. BREMEn. The national office is in New York City.
The CHAMMAN. In what cities do you work?
Mrs. BREaIE. In about 200 cities of the United States--all the larger cities.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you travel and visit them?
Mr.s. BREMER. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. What cities have the largest alien population?
Mrs. BHnuMmt. The 10 largest cities in the country have the largest alien
population.
Mr. RAKER. What did you say .,our work was?
Mrs. BREmER. I am the director of the national department for work with
foreign-born women, for the National Young Woman's Christian Afwociatlon.
The CHATIRAN. You said something about Americanization.
Mrs. DPi,.%fmu. I said that is what It is. I have given you the label because
I thought you would wont it for the record. My work Is Americanization work.
I am the director.
Mr. RAKER. How many directors are there working with you? You may you
art, a director of this organization.
Mrs. lBitn En. I say I am the director of the national department. I sa
the executive director of the department, the head of it.
The CHAIRMAN. You work among all races of foreign people?
Mrs. BrEstEr. Yes; among about 33 different nationalities that are found in
family groups in this country.
Mr. R.%xrn. ,May I ask you this question: low nany foreign-born yonleni have
you in your orgainiztion-that is, as the directors of the organization? Do
yi know? Are there any?
.Mrs. Ii:.xtim:. 'itere are none. The National Young Wonien's Christian As-
s.aiilltion is very much of an old and established American organizaton.
The 'IiAunM.. it las no antipathy to naturalized Amcrican women, has it?
Mr. lIRF.stn. Certainly it has not. We have many friends among them. Mr.
hak,"r nskt'l me how iany ive had in our directorate. and I sald none.
Mr. R.A FE. Why not? I anm Just asking for information now.
Mr.. Bli .imtn. I can not tell you why not. They just did not halpen to come
along. There is no obJection to them. I am simply slating tihe fact that the
Icmnljterslhiji of the national loard are all American-horn women.
The ('l..x.Now, is it possible that there are in other organizations
Ilehse nalm rallzE.l American woinen'?
Mrs. Itu:sti:m. Probably; yes.
The ('Imiim.sx. You iay proceed with your statement.
Mrs. Ihui ins. This lill that Mr. White has introduced, I believe, should ho
jiassel as an emergency measure, because it is conservative; it is designed tit
ring relief in a small measure, but t measure that will count, relief to hiunan
misery and it is conserves this idea, that the United States flaA extends to its
citizens the privileges of looking after their own. The measure which Mr. White
has Introdueed would permit the admission of persons who could cnini lit
anyway tinder the regulations and the immigration law, and under th' quota.
were this July instead of December.
They might wait until July to come In, were Ii not for the extraordinary ir-
cumstances which have been described to you at great length to-day. It is
extraordinary to the extent that those who would he henefitted under this iil
atre men and women that can not stay there and live. That is wily those who
ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUORKS.
have studied this matter believe thWt this bill that Mr. White lies Introduced
should be passed, and passed now, and that It will not upset time country, nor,
In any sense, modify the Immigration law, and. Its desirable quota. It simply
extends to these people now, who, under the restrictive legislation, can not
come in, the privilege of coming In now, people that could qualify It it were not
for the quota law.
Mr. VA"a. Just a minute. Let me ask you a question there. You say thlt
It will not seriously affet the country.
The CHAIRMAN. Could we not do that same thing, carry out that Idea by a
resolution that would permit these people to come in now that will lie eligible
to come In next July?
Mrs. Blmman. Yes; I qualified it by stating that umder the present law they
would be permitted to come In next July.
The CHAIaMAN. Would it not save some of these people if we would palms a
resolution, in lieu of this bill, to the effect that the quota which might be used
next July might be used in December Instead?
Mr. VAIrz. In advance?
The CHAiRMAN. YC-S.
Mrs. BRMn . If you were not dealing with the Turk, Mr. Chuirnia, that
resolution might solve this dilemma, but you are dealing with the Turk.
Tie CHAIRMAN. It would permit their quota to come li InIJunuary instead of
July.
Mrs. BuxEima. Tho difficulty with this situation Is that you are dealnhg with the
Turk, and the Turks have driven out such large numbers of people tmt the next
year's quota of 2,000 would only partially alleviate the conditions.
The CHAIRMAN. No; we can pass this resolution with the idea that that number
might be relieved, which you state numbers 2,000 or l,000, by authorizing the
use of their quota for next year ahead of time, immediately, wS a necessity.
Now then, that would take care of that number, muil the others might be given
immediate relief through the Near East Ielief .Asclation, and we might hope
that withina very short tiue the situation will right itself somewhat In Asia
Minor countries, so that the necessity for bringing the others it will &lotexist.
Mrs. Bissine. Are you asking we a question?
The CHAIRIMAN. I am Just suggesting that us a possible way.
Mrs. BIhmt)IE. I believe that your hope there Is futile, that It is impossible,
and It has been proven that It Is, tigain and again, that the situation will change
for the better, so that these people will be permitted to return to their homes,
and they will have to go to other countries. They are permanent exiles, with
no place to go, and no hope of them being taken back. The problem before the
world is what to do with them, not merely to give them temporary old, such
as the Red Cross, or the Near East Relief Amoclutiom, amd time generous fill-
pulses of other countries can give them, or little Ureece can take care of them
in a temporary refugee camp, that will merely keep soul and body together;
but the permanent solution of this difficulty Is a victorious army that will
drive back the Turk and so defeat him that the people will be permitted to
return to their homes rnd may return to their homes.
I believe that Mr. Whlte's bill Is a sane, sensible, logical imeaietre, because
It peritmits the United States to let Its citizens do some small share, which Is
humanely, and naturally, and the right thing to do.
Mr. itAKEI. You are in favor of that?
Mrs. Disire. I am here speaking for this bill; I am It favor of the passage
of this bill. because I do not see any army to beat the Turks.
Mr. RAKER. Are these conditions to be permanent?
Mrs. BREMER. I say that the Turks have driven them out in such large
numbers-
Mr. ItAKR (interposing). I understood you to say that the refugees that are
now being driven out, that they are being driven out permanently, those that
have already been driven out.
Mrs. BRt t:s.I saild they were permanent until some victorious army beat
the Turks and beat them back, and liermitt(l1 these peipple to turn to their
homes. I rio not see nly prosple.ts of any such a victorious army.
Mr. RAKER. Then, thatbeing 4he case, according to your presentation of this
natter, you believe that the refugees now being driven out are behig driven
out of that territory permanently?
Mrs. BmstIr. I do.
Mr. ltAKm Therefore, tine special legislation that you are now appealing for,
you think, will relieve about how many?
Mrs. BiREmxn. WVell. I do not kniow.
Mr. ltAKER. What Is your estimate?
Mrs. ByimitEK. I omuno authority. I aim merely taking the estinates that
have been givent, sonnewbete Itetween 5,OOO and 6OOOO.
Mr. flAnmt. 11oW inhout the million and a half that have been driven out?
Finey are not going to get bick, according to your statement. That Is right,
Is% It not?
Mrs. liRnemri. If tinose are authentic figres.
MAr. ItAKEtI. Yes: I say, assunlg that those are correct figures. now what
are you coing to do with these other million and four hundred and some odd
tihousandl?
r The CHAIRMAN. We have been all over that a great many times.
Mr. ItAKsn. Well, I want to know what the witness thinks.
Mrs. Hitaiwn. It Is a tremendously serious problem. I believe that every
country that Inas a civilized population as America has should take some
share in It. It Is a question, of course, as to what share-and I. want to
congratulate Mr. White on his courage in Introducing this bill, which does
make possible, at leasut, a small share on the part of the American peope,
and I want to say that this hill should he passed Immediately, and that there
Is necessity for us to hurry up In this matter.
Mr. WVHIME Mrs. Bremer will be given an opportunity to Insert her state-
mient?
The CHAIRMAN. Vertninly. You believe In the restrictive law yourself?
Mrs. lIiRtsti. I believe that each country has the right to protect Itself,
anti I believe that the present legislation, the Immigration law, Is the
lnt'tt intw that this country has haul, and I know from experience that it Is
being administered In at better way, rind I know that the country was never
so secure as It is t-ay.
Mr. VA1LIr. Mrs. Bremer. you have touched one polut right there that Is one
of fihe most serious flings flhat comes before this committee. You say that
every country has a right to protect Itself. Do you not think that It Ip the
dluty of the United States to protect itsef?
Mrs. BREMER. Yes.
Mr. Vix. In other words there Is only the question of ilecluing what in
protection. Now, we mien here om this committee feel that we are charged
with that duty. It we (-anind aita way to help some oine and still protect
flie Interests of fte 11'nlted States, I am sure that we are willing to do It,
andi we tire really for you to convince usp. nail I do not may that I nun not
conivitnce-I ami merely putting the proposition. If we can he convinced that
we will still lie p~rotectedi by doing what you are asking, that will be one
thning. hut If lihe coutry is not inroti--ed, no jiq)*nl to our syipnlity should
swerve us lin four duty, should It?
',%irs. h1lvit. No. I iII'hin've tl a r. WhIte's 1)111
1 ,int riqr nniaasiire. lbe-
:aulse I ineleve IIt t dnoes~ Absolulely pnrotect tie Viiltml tntes, ainn that It
't4nes int1l openi till lit lidly wily tine while 4uttunaloll. Wiehl tiht tinuintry is4 not
* unnitednilt. 31114wh thisconniltie.
11ch tiliparently. Iselig rcelspntatlve of tWe
wilkit 4'ollry Is n144 t mulled onl ,ithIis w~niei qunesto i for Iilliiigrt t) ieif:bi-
Th'Ie reasail tlntlt I liethi-ve lit this, lill] annd tinl' reasin thtil I kmnow lie ii-
telhigeni eItl~,.ens sfi tin. In0ounnlry inehieve li It is lictniuse they knotmw. when they
slittly fint- 1.1111 tin11t It III lit) winY il-trrerex withk lt,-citizens. lit tit way einnges,
tine 4%stnlits 111i4.111nth I itlieve that Ihe intelligent pi-OlilC tnlink tHint 1111K bill Is
till rigilt.
,'neit ~N jnnive yisi iward Inn New~ Vork naout i dntinil for wtore
chnea in hor?
Anr%. hlttv~lnwit. I hnive nennel I it t(le newsian('rs.
TIhea ('u1i.lm'.q. Donyou knnnbw wvhetne'r (her'e IS suchn :1 flennnlnnn or iot?
Mfrs. hlu~~.No.
''ln'(nne nI;~~ You1 14 141,nt kitnm winlettr there fis nany stit'h it ilemninin or
int1l?
. The CHAinMAN. You do not know whether there is any demand for cheap-
alien labor or not?
Mrs. BREMER I do not. All I know about that, Mr. Chairman, ts what I
have read in the newspapers.
The CHAZRMAN. You are not sufficiently acquainted with the methods of
legislative procedure to be afraid that a measure seeking relief for these-
refugees may have a "cheap labor" provision added to it.
Mrs. Burning. I should have confidence enough in this committee to believe
that they could protect themselves from any such a ueAsure. They seem to be
able to protect the country under the quota law.
Mr. RAxE. They will bring that up.
The CHAIRMAN. You know that some people want cheap labor. aund that they
will be the next to be heard from.
Mrs. BunKE. Personally I believe that this bill should be p sei imme-
diately, not next week or next month, and that whatever issues face this.
committee on the question of cheap labor can be debated on Its merits. and
that the passage of this bill will have absolutely no effect upon It.
The ChADRMAN. You do not want to let the demand for cheap alien labor
come up on this bill?
Mrs. Bumm.I absolutely do not. If I may give my personal reasons as to
why I believe In this bill, I would may that I have made a painstaking study of
its provisions and because I believe that It is a refugee measure; because I
believe it is conservative, and because I believe that it extends to our citizens
certain rights, and I believe that this bill will save those citizens certain rights,
and I believe that It will save the lives of thousands of people, and I believe
that It should go through because of those facts.
Mr. VAnx. Do you believe that the United States should have a policy or
assume the burden of being an asylum for political or religious refugees?
Mrs. BuMK . Frankly, I will tell you that I have studied the history of the
immigration legislation of this country, and that I have believed and have
been proud of the fact that that has been the traditional attitue of this
country.
Mr. VAnz. Is that still your belief?
Mrs. BREn. Conditions have been changing. I ant open-m.inded student
enough and take the student's attitude, and will say that wen,such a measure
before Congress I should be unable to tell my representative what I though,
until I had looked Into it further.
Mr. RAKEn. Let me ask you a question: Is it because of the relief for these
refugees now that you are so strong for this measure?
Mrs. BaminE. Yes.
Mr. RAxER. Well, now, could not relief be had by sending them aid abroad?
Mrs. BauEm. That could be done, Mr. Raker, and is being (lone, but I want
to say that if my sister were. over there, I should resent like everything it I
had to go down Into my pocket to hand money over to an organization to go
over there to feed my sister, when, if she were in this country, I could take
care of her and help her, and she could get a job and take care of herself;
whereas the way It is now, in 10 years from now she might be beyond any help.
Mr. WHrrm. You are In favor of this as emergency legislation. In favor of us
doing what we have been doing under our Constitution for 12-1 or 134) years,
all of the time bringing in relatives of American citizens?
Mrs. BREKn. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wn . And that is whnt all races that make tip the An erieant popila-
tion have been doing constantly?
Mrs. BREBE. Yes, sir.
31r. RuKEB. Po you know how nanny of these iwolile have been he,re for a
great many years. and have had no relatives come to this country.
Mrs. BREMER. I do not know. The census figures 41o not show that.
(Thereupon, at 0.30 o'clock p. ni.. the conimittee adjourned to meet at the
call of the chairman.)

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ADMISSION OF NEAR EAST REFUGEES

DECEMBER 15, 16, AND 10, 192"2

COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION.

ALBERT JOHNSON, Washington, Chairman.

CoMMIrrm ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

was made necessary on account of the inflexible elements of that law is a

Mr. BOEIOL. In Smyrna, Asia Minor, of Italian parents, my father and

COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

The CHAIRMAN. That was the original melting pot?

The CHAIRMA,. The Armenians came under the domination of Alexander I

It is impossible to swell their industry to take care of the people. They

"When that Important proposition, so essentially connected with the public

When "the Turks captured Constantinople In 1453 there was a massacre of

"The crisis In Constantinople continues desperately tense. It is fraught

"WHAT IS THE UNITED STATES DOING?

"But Washington is alarmed. There is an air of foreign entanglement about

entangled tip to our honor."

"There are several thousand shoe-shining places in tileUnited States oper-

admbsdon of 40,000 Chinese. cooles to Hawal, It was claimed in support of

Native and foreIgn born. Greeks.

NW England.. . 7,40k 7,316,0 79,061 1,71S 3,002 347 is I1,8,654 32,186 3 2 00

New Engnd ......... 7,400,909 1,473 155

1-I - I-i - I - -1-1--

New Yk ...... 10,38,227 52,2i)

WoMe i .................. 100,3.0 10wI an4 1,82*

ForelMinborn whites 21 years of age and over. Greek%.

Naturalized. From other Born in the United Stat, ire-

Rumi.....................................1,3,7 1-.21,r 50.:

..................... t.5 ,-,72Mutan....... 39

Mr. Wrmt= Just now?

The committee reconvened at the expiration of the recess.

to Smyrna and reconstruct-I do not know what expression to use-I saw my

This Is due to the policy Inaugurated by Abdul Hamid of attracting Moslem

STATEMENT 01 PIL01. RDWAD C"APMI PRINBCTON UNIVERSITY,

('os ii ETr-EF ON I MMIGtoRATION AND NATURALIZATION,

Ilbieu. A1' ri.1a.eiaN~

SEATLE.WA~.. Drsrnaber isl,112

I-mo. ;%mtirr .Jtml N~oi.i.

1lou). AOIM~iT'i loiNoN

i'lat ('ii AlusIN. Trit'vm tiaore Is. -o ssi it4'; zcmuIiamoi'

I Jive. 62 Wvt-40tiv iminllmd asgml lhirtcxanll *Striet.

Naw YORK, Norcibcr 29, 19222.

Thtii (IliiI. liiita1ll333?

that Is centering on 4tis clowinittee, as is shown by telegrams and other ceto-

A genlt'emtl) 11)4 Jd tol (411 tAthait (lt!e llitilhantinbawil iim

The4. ciiilittt' a'euissveie' tit ~2elkek 1).fi.. puilcsihitt tet i'e';O55.

STATEMENT OF G. K. WESTON, EAST ORANGE, N. J.

STATEMENT OF MR. DIKORN NAZAXETIAN, BIRMINGHAM, ALA.

STATEMENT OP MR. 0. K. WESTON-Resumed.

California. One of tile largest ones Is In Fresno. tinother In earlierr, another

ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF MR. ELLSWORTH HUNTINGTON.

STATEMENT OP MISS ELIZA SHANINIAN.

122 ADIIMSSION OV NPJAR EAST ]REF110SRS.

Air. KMAIA1A. If they llved---nceording to this bll, If they lived in tilt

I ................................................. 3,299 234J 13 5

I0w ............................................ .... 2,3297 1,700 027

The Armenians in Californla have inadt, Important contributions to the

STATEMENT OF MS.. ABISTIDES E. PHOUTRID3S, ASSISTANT

numbers. It Is represented in the parliament, and it comes up to over halt

The following resolutions were unanimously adopted and -forwarded to

()TILR SIAS$ MEETINGS AND APPEALS.

r)r. IROBEnT E. SPtE..

We sent a telegram (December 12) to President Harding and are awalt'ng

FOR URGENT ACTION.