Powers FBI Interview Transcript

Case 1:19-cr-00213-RDA Document 55-1 Filed 11/08/19 Page 1 of 55 PageID# 203
UNCLASSIFIED
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
9325 Discovery Boulevard
Manassas VA 20109
File Number 318B-WF-2919820
Requesting Official s and Office s SA Jamie Vera WFO
Task Number s and Date Completed
Name and Office of Transcriber OST Rebecca Nelson WFO
Name and Office of Reviewer
Source File Information
Name of Audio File or CD Andrew Powers Interview 121818 File 0008
Date Time Duration 12182018 04 45PM Pacific Time Duration 01 0414
VERBATIM TRANSCRIPTION
UNCLASSIFIED
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
CD Andrew Powers Interview 121818
Session 0008
Participants
JV SA Jamie Vera
CM SA Cameron Mizell
AP Andrew Powers
UMI Unidentified Male I
UFI Unidentified Female I
U172 Unidentified Female 2
Abbreviations
U1 Unintelligible
OV Overlapping voices
SC Simultaneous Conversation
PH Phonetic pronunciation
Italics in second
Spoken language
RC Recorded message
I I Exegesis or TranslatorTranscriber's Notes TN
UNCLASSIFIED
2
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV This is Special Agent Jamie Vera and Cameron Mizell It is Tuesday December
eighteenth at four-forty-five P-M Pacific Time Doing a subject interview with
Andrew Powers at the Westdrift PH Hotel in Manhattan Beach Address is
fourteen hundred Park View Avenue
Only background noise heard from 0022 until 0044
CM Can you pop the trunk real quick
CM Hello
AP Hey UI how are you
JV IA
AP UI Andy
CM Hey Cameron
AP Cameron
CM UI nice to meet ya
AP OV How are ya
CM Good
JV Um wanna is there a place maybe like a table or something UI that

you
wanna grab
AP Um
JV UI where we should Ul
AP Do you wanna just get a cup of coffee or something
JV IA yeah
UNCLASSIFIED
3
FBI-00034171
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP UI
CM Yeah
JV UI
AP We do yeah we're working on UI

JV Okay
AP UI organize UI
JV Alright UI
AP UI
JV Yeah Yeah
CM Is it like self-service here or
JV OV UI Okay we'll grab UI

CM UI
UMI Hi how are you
AP Hi are we okay to grab a seat
UMI UI anywhere you'd like Ul

AP OV Thank you very much
JV OV Thank you
UMI UI be right over here
JV Okay thank you
CM UI
UM2 How're we doing UI

JV UI
UNCLASSIFIED
4
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP IA So you all came up from Virginia
CM We did yeah
AP Yep
CM Yep work out of Manassas
AP Okay
CM Got an office out there
AP 0 we can probably sit in the corner
JV Yeah Ul
AP OV UI when they come over I'll uh
JV Yeah
CM Please excuse me I'm getting over a sinus infection so I sound a little bit
congested
AP What's that
CM I said you'll have to excuse me I'm coming over a sinus infection so I'm a little
clogged up UI
AP Oh yeah no worries
CM We have a flight today wasn't uh

AP The uh
JV UI
AP Air travel-air travel will do that to ya Ul

CM OV Yeah-yeah
AP Ul
CM Yeah so anyway
UNCLASSIFIED
5
FBI-00034173
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV OV Yeah UI It's a long flight
AP Yeah
JV Did you guys um moved out here recently
AP We moved out here about four months ago
JV Okay
AP Um had to drove so we had the dogs and five kids
JV You drove
CM OVI lull
JV all the way out here
AP OV Uh somy dad and I took a week uh drove out and um it wasn't bad it
was you know was a fun way to spend some time at try to uh find enough to
UI hang with him whenever I can
CM UI
JV Well that's good
AP Yeah uh we did
JV OVI Lill
AP uh Nashville Oklahoma City New Mexico L-A four days
JV Okay
CM Nice
JV OV lull
AP OV Got the dogs out Ul

JV OV UI yeah
AP we were worried about the dogs in the uh pressurized cabin
UNCLASSIFIED
6
FBI-00034174
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV Oh yeah
CM OV Mm
JV that's true
AP OV There have been some issues lately My wife knows more about it
UFI Hi
JV How are you
UFI UI
AP Hi
UFI Would you like a menu
AP Just a coffee please
UFI Just coffee Okay
AP Yes
UFI Yeah
AP Black
JV I'm good
UFI UI
JV I'm-I'm okay
UFI Oh you Ul
JV OV I'm okay yeah
CM I'm fine too thank you
UFI Okay Ul
CM OV Appreciate it
UNCLASSIFIED
7
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV lull
JV Thank you
CM Brought a water
JV Yeah I know I drank all my water on the way here
AP So uh yeah in UI the kids flew out uh with my wife So yeah
JV Okay
AP They uh they did the trip But 1-1 do it all the time so we have business back in
JV Yeah
AP New York and uh D-C Boston uh
CM OV Do you drive all the time or you fly
AP 4-1 make the trip all the No I don't drive UI

CM OV Okay UI
JV OV UI lotta driving
AP Uh
CM OV That's a long haul
AP I've only driven it once Uh we did that just for exploration but uh yeah
CM Okay
JV UI
CM OV Yeah I've done the-the drive to Utah before
AP Okay
CM But never as far as California I've flown here a couple times but yeah My wife's
got family out in uh like Utah and Idaho
UNCLASSIFIED
8
FBI-00034176
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Okay
CM So we've done that drive since getting married d-yeah it's
AP Yeah
CM Road trip
JV Yeah Virginia to Florida that's about as far as I drive
AP Okay
JV But
AP Yeah
JV Bout twelve-thirteen hours So yeah I can't imagine driving all the way out here
AP Four days of that So yeah it's the same thing
JV OV That's a lot
AP just for four straight days so
JV That's a lot
AP Yeah it was cool Uh it was s

JV OV Yeah
AP you know like I said it was uh good way to see the country Uh
JV OV Yeah
AP never done that before Ul

JV OV Yeah Pause Um Ull so generally before we go talk to anybody we
always you know run the address and make sure everything and I noticed that
um that your daughter she was actually at the I guess was at the-the shooting
AP She was
JV Ul T-was she
UNCLASSIFIED
9
FBI-00034177
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP She's okay
JV OV Okay
AP Yeah she's okay Thankfully
JV OV She was there nothing
AP She was standing right beside the uh the cop that was shot Yeah so she uh she
witnessed the uh the guy that ran in
JV Are you serious
AP Uh yeah
JV Oh boy
CM OV Jeez
AP Thank you very much
UFI No problem
JV OV How's she um How's she doing Is she okay
AP You know um she's nineteen and really fragile and
JV OV Yeah
AP so I um I can't tell you that she was doing great before it

happened Um just
because she's nineteen and yeah um kind of UI in a-in a crazy stage of life
JV Yeah
AP Um so we'll watch her closely uh it's
JV OV Yeah
AP just happened so like yeah
JV OV Yeah it's very recent
AP it was literally W-within a week uh you've been to my home so the-the last
UNCLASSIFIED
10
FBI-00034178
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
active fire in Malibu was
JV OV Yeah
AP about a half a mile away from my house
CM I didn't realize that
JV OV Oh
AP Um so within a week we had that and the fires
CM Jeez
AP And so yeah it's been uh it's been a hell of a month
JV Lot going on
AP OV Um yeah
JV Yeah
CM OV Now the F-B-I knocks on the door so
JV yeah-yeah well we didn't-we didn't
AP OV Uh thanks for asking thanks for asking but yeah-yeah she-she's
JV OV Yeah when I thought about it
AP unharmed um
JV OV Good
AP herShe had uh three friends with her and all of them harmed
JV Oh my gosh
CM That's good
AP Urn so yeah it was a

JV OV UI still traumatic to be there Ul
UNCLASSIFIED
I I
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV Incredible yeah no it was incre Thank you for asking She's uh she's
UI
JV Okay well glad to hear that
AP OVI Lill
JV Ul Well we didn't wanna alert anybody knocking on your door but um

well hopefully your you know your wife is not too alarmed
AP UI yeah she-she
JV OVI lull
AP understands what's going on Uh

JV OV Okay
AP I think we both um You know she's been um um a part of uh you know

a lot of the relationships that we had
JV Yeah
AP A lot of the relationships that have stayed consistent so yeah she's not alarmed
JV OV Okay good
AP at all It's not anything that uh
JV OV We didn't mean to scare her or anything So

AP Ul
JV OV Good good
AP I appreciate the uh-uh position
JV OV Yeah we don't like to
AP Yeah
JV Scare anybody Um
UNCLASSIFIED
12
FBI-00034180
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP So how can I help you
JV So yeah so you mentioned um We just wanna be you know very clear make
sure everything's clear from the beginning Ul
AP OV Yep
JV this is voluntary You know we're not-we're not forcing you to talk to us you
know you can tell us you know what
AP OV Okay
JV I don't wanna talk to

you I don't wanna answer any questions um that is
AP OV Lill
JV one hundred percent your choice so you know even if we start talking right
now and you're like I'm done tell us
AP OV Thank you
JV um we will leave
AP Okay
JV Um but the reason we're here today is you know kind of as I mentioned on the
phone you know obviously you know there's a lot going on with Virginia
AP Mhm
JV Urn they've put a lot of information out there You know we are seeing that
information we're just getting kinda their side what-what they're saying um
AP OV Yep
JV so we're out here today to talk to you and just to kind of see-get your take on
that get your side
AP Yeah
JV Um cause you know what we do so we work financial crimes that's what we
look into
UNCLASSIFIED
13
FBI-00034181
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV Sure
JV if we
AP OV lull
JV see if there's anything going on um and a lot of times when we do
investigations they can get UI like very invasive UI people and we want to
see if there's UI that it's kind of UI quieter and
AP UI
JV Um talk to
you and see if we can straighten things out and see what's going on
here
AP Okay
JV Urn so I know that you recently had made a blog post on your website and
AP Mhm
JV You know just us from the outside reading it it sounded kind of like there were
some things that you maybe felt a little I don't know if remorseful is the word or
if you felt like um I mean the title of it is I Screwed Up So we're kind of
hoping
AP OV Yeah
JV to get your take on that and kind of what-what did you mean
AP Sure
JV By that
AP Yeah um so 1-1-1 am Urn you know 1-1 think one of the-the mistakes that I
made I didn't trust investors enough to appreciate the fact that we were in a
position as a business and then we were pivoting to another place Um we started
this company um UI through a channel so I don't-I don't know how familiar
you are with technology so stop me if there's uh you know anything that I can
explain
JV OV Yeah
UNCLASSIFIED
14
FBI-00034182
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP but um We started the business um going through integrators and resellers so
people would take our product and build on top of it and deliver it to a customer
Um we You know for the last I'd say thirty-six months have been in the process
of moving to a more direct model um and that's really for the um primary reason
of improving our gross margins So when people do valuations on companies in
our space they try to get it um uh they-they give it a valuation based on its ability
to produce gross margins Gross margins are severely depressed when you go
through a channel cause you gotta pay a partner to-to get to the customer right
CM Right
AP And so um what we did was we presented the story that we wanted to be and
and where we were going as opposed to where we were
JV Okay
AP And so when I said I screwed up that-that's what I screwed up 1-1 didn't trust
our you know investors Um now I also went after a less sophisticated investor
um and my understanding at least initially was that the give and take there was
that they would sign a subscription agreement essentially saying that they have all
the information that they need in order to make the investment they're a qualified
investor um and I had the ability as long as I retained control of the company
which I have to
go you know file know
forward and-and try to get you as
much make as much progress you know on the business as we have as I
possibly could Um well you know when um the state of Virginia
JV OV lull
AP investigated us initially um they sort of keyed in directly on our business model
and then immediately um started cold-calling all of my investors and saying did
you know that Andy's going to market this UI Um well tha-that first of all
wasn't part of our original discussion We-we were having a very friendly
discussion just like this and
CM OV With Virginia State Corpor-yeah
AP With the state of Virginia and then the next day they just you know I started
getting calls from my investors saying that the S-E-C is calling me UI C-C
UI
CM OV Right right
UNCLASSIFIED
15
FBI-00034183
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV OV Right right right Yeah
CM OV Yep
AP they live in this ambiguous kind of universe right
CM OV Sure
AP And so 1-1 guess 1-1 screwed up in two ways 1-1 misled investors um we were
you know intending to get to a direct model but we went through a channel uh
we probably didn't uh present that as well as we could've Uh I also screwed up

cause I went after a less sophisticated investor uh that when you know initiated
when-when the state of Virginia initiated communication with them they just
panicked and said
JV OV Yeah
AP yeah screw Andy right And so You know my response to that has been just
to not contest the state of Virginia you know effect-effectively say hey if
investors don't wanna be here then I don't want them to be here Um and we're
working my family the company we're working to liquidate and buy investors
out
JV Yeah
AP So that's a UI our position
CM OV With Communiclique that is or
AP yeah Communiclique
JV OV lull
AP so we've shed cost we've you know 1-1 don't know you've ev Or how much
how closely you've been paying attention to my website but none of my
executives that were drawing huge salaries work for the company any longer
JV Yeah
AP I'm-I'm working to you know um try to create as much capital as I possibly can
to buy these investors out and-and move on um you know the-the order from the
state of Virginia was a little bit ambiguous as well and kinda like It
says that
you know that we have to provide offers of precision to nine million dollars
UNCLASSIFIED
16
FBI-00034184
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
worth of investors Well those investors don't all want to get out right So what
we're doing
CM OV Right
AP right now to try to figure out which ones do and which ones don't
JV Mhm
AP Um and so that's kind of the-the situation that we're in today
JV Yeah
AP Um I've got one particular indiv-uh investor he's suing me personally for three
million dollars
UF2 Yeah
AP Uh we've made an offer to him his name's Jason Padadeu PH

CM Okay
AP Um so if you don't know him I

JV OV Yeah
AP I don't know what you know so um he's you know we-we've made an offer
uh to settle with his attorney
JV Yeah
AP Uh we haven't gotten a lot of communication back from that We have a court
date set in the state of Virginia Um and um

CM OV Settle for a-a lesser dollar amount
JV Andy what's your plans to uh

AP It's for the exact amount that
CM OV Oh
AP he invested yeah
UNCLASSIFIED
17
FBI-00034185
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
CM OV Oh
AP it's literally recision PH to the letter Yeah so it's recision PH to uh to the
dollar amount I think the uh the court suggested a percentage over that what
we want to do is get investors their money back first and then start to make advan
payments on you know what would UI Urn you know we're not a profitable
company we never claimed to be I think that's one of our other challenges with
this proceeding is that we never claimed to be making a lot of money um at least
not in profit um you know the company's uh overall profile was based on its
impact on the market and that was through a channel and yeah UI so
JV UI
AP That's kind of our position So that-that's the latest with us is you know we my
family and I have been-we've been planning this move to Los Angeles for uh a
number of years this summer um because of my oldest daughter's sort of move

into college and everything else kind of presented itself as an opportunity so
that's what we chose to do
JV Yeah
AP I-it worked out to be okay timing to get away from Virginia but I mean I
JV Yeah
AP We've seen a couple of bloggers that have written you know that uh we're uh
somehow evading you know the state of Virginia but we're not really doing
that we're-we just happened to be moving Ul

JV OV Yeah you planned to move out here anyway
AP We planned the move Ul

JV OV Yeah that's fair Um so when you I know you chose not to contest the
state of Virginia I mean do you feel that there's UI what their-their order is
UI on point or are they completely wrong
AP Um no I think they're completely wrong
JV Okay
AP But I'm okay with it I mean 1-1-1-we-we want to be away from investors that
UNCLASSIFIED
18
FBI-00034186
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
want to be away from us And you know the-the state of Virginia um is a
commonwealth and i-there's two of those And so I've-I've
JV OV Yeah
AP learned more about this than I ever wanted to know but like the-there's some
pageantry associated with commonwealth law um and you know sort of like
pursuing people UI part of that sort of like um I think that uh that mantra that
they follow we just don't want anything to do with it So at the end of the day
like we see that you know UI to you know get o-get through this is just to
break buy investors out um you know at some point we'll establish a-a new
corp um move all the old shares into the new corp and then all the investors'll um
you know sign agreements saying that they're happy the way that we're-we're
moving forward It-we-you know the truth is is that a majority of our investors
are happy with you know what we're doing
JV Yeah
AP There's a handful that are not and we're working to-to satisfy the decision UI
so yeah
JV Yeah so 1-1 mean again so you know we just have what's been relayed
through Virginia Um so I know one of their biggest issues was the whole
revenue thing right
AP IA
JV That's kinda one of the biggest things that they talk about in there is that you
know you have claimed to make a hundred and sixty some million dollars in
revenue and they're saying that's not true so I mean
AP OV Right
JV What do you say to that
AP Well so we work through a channel um and you know the-the channel claim a
majority of that revenue um

JV What do you I'm Ul
AP OV W-we-we
UNCLASSIFIED
19
FBI-00034187
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV What do you mean a-a channel Are you saying
AP OV We work through channel partners So we go with a partner who then goes
to a customer the channel gets a majority of the credit for that revenue and then
we get the margin on top of that
JV Okay
AP What we were trying to present was our impact on the market
JV Okay
AP Um and so our ability to generate revenue with channel partners right So like at
the end of the day 1-1 think it-it probably sounded like a lot of revenue to
JV OV Yeah
AP the state of Virginia cause they usually investigate uh real estate you know
other sort of small you know uh scenarios um we-we felt like it sounded like a
small amount of revenue relative to the impact when you look at our competitors
So if you look at Twillio PH and all the other folks that are generating billions
of dollars
JV OV Yeah
AP of revenue we were just trying to make ourselves like stand out by comparison
JV Okay
AP Um so yeah i-it was never our intent to make our investors think that we were
bigger than you know maybe we were necessarily We just wanted to show that
we were compared uh we compared well to our um uh partners in our
JV OV Yeah
AP in our-in our sector Um so I-and I-and I get it but like Regard A-a million
dollars a hundred million dollars two hundred million dollars that's a lot of
money Um but
AP OVI lull
AP comparatively speaking a-all we were trying to do is show the impact that we

had on the market right And if we pivoted to a direct model that would be our
UNCLASSIFIED
20
FBI-00034188
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
revenue so when we pivot that will be-you will contract directly with customers
And that process is working it just hasn't I mean it definitely been slowed by a
lot of the information that's available out there Uh as I said we're just trying to
reorganize um yeah get rid of investors that want to be you know um that
want to move on
JV Yeah
AP And rebuild our company so
JV Yeah so does or did Communiclique have any revenue
AP Communiclique had about a hundred million dollars worth of revenue in two
thousand and seventeen
JV Okay and so just to make sure that when we say So when I say revenue so
I'm a
AP OV Yes
JV C-P-A okay So I have an accounting
AP OV Sure
JV background so um very familiar with emails balance sheets all that So umm
just want to make sure that our definition of revenue is the same
AP OV Sure
JV Uh so when you say that Communiclique has one hundred million dollars of
revenue or had in 2017 what does that mean to you
AP So that means both uh the combined margin that we received from our resellers
and the revenue that we booked directly to customers So that's not counting I
recognize the mistake now in counting all our partners revenue
JV UNI
AP That's not counting our partners revenue that's recognizing the margin that we
made so what we received directly as profit
JV Okay
UNCLASSIFIED
21
FBI-00034189
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP from the engagements and the direct relationships we had with clients in 2017 As
far as 2018 1 don't know what to expect yet
JV OV Right UI
AP we're still waiting for uh
JV OV So so you're saying in 2017 Communiclique had one hundred million in
revenue that's including the partners that you were
AP OV Not including
JV Not including
AP Not including So we removed that
CM What was uh represented to investors at the time though
AP One-sixty-five
CM Okay So sixty-five was
AP OV That was including partner revenue UI
CM So sixty-five was all partner revenue
JV I've got some other And who like what like what kind of partners are we
talking about
AP So everybody from IBM So big integrators to little boutique shops like The
Nerdery PH and people that have developers a lot of times out of India uh that
build on top of our platform uh that

engage with uh our clients on our
behalf uh so
JV So did these like IBM let's use IBM for example
AP OV Sure
JV So are they using like your product Is that how you're assuming this revenue that
they're generating
AP Yeah so more IBM is more famous for reselling products like UIcom or SAP
or in a small they'd resell our product too So they take our product and they
UNCLASSIFIED
22
FBI-00034190
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
engage with clients and they build uh multi-party calling phone systems
So uh conference calling on top of our solutions So UI
JV Okay So so that's the sixty-five coming from all those other companies So the
million let's talk about the million that UI like on your own not through other
companies Is that do I have that right
AP Yeah
JV Okay So
CM OV Is it a hundred million or
JV A hundred million
AP OV A hundred million
JV Okay So umm how how do you come up with that hundred million
AP Umm so it's either direct So it's either us going directly going to customers
JV OV Okay
AP and billing them directly and usually working with an integrator to sort of build
on top of that or it's margin that's paid to us by an IBM or somebody like that
JV Okay
CM It's exclusive of equity though there's no

AP I'm sorry
CM You don't include equity in that like uh investor money coming in
AP No no no no Yeah we don't include that
JV So that hundred million is just straight like revenue like you

AP OV that's right
JV So you sell your product and you get paid for it
AP That's right
UNCLASSIFIED
23
FBI-00034191
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV That's right Umm okay cause I know UI the thing that Virginia is saying of
course is where's the revenue So I mean that would be our question is where like
where is this revenue
AP OV Yeah
JV This hundred million dollars where did that go
AP Yeah I mean we we've spent more than that in order to make that So we
raised we we've never cut hidden from the fact that we've burnt capital
JV OV Yeah
AP In order to get to you know where we wanted to get to Uh so yeah it's
UI employees umm I mean you name it like hosting charges Like hosting
is one of the bigger uh charges associated with our uh the two big costs
associated with our service are either A-W-S or one of the other big hosting
providers or uh Sip UI So umm the phone system that we build has a
termination charge associated with it So when you and I make a call to each
other
JV OV Yeah
AP There's a termination charge uh associated with that Uh those two account for
you know sixty seventy percent of our calls
JV OV Right
AP Overall So that's where a big portion of our uh costs go
JV So those
AP OV and so if I
may
JV OV Yeah
AP I this is kind of where the conversation umm took a turn with the State of
Virginia because I started to tell them about our partners and our customers
JV Yeah
AP And then immediately the next day I got calls from everyone saying like I don't
want anything to do with this Like why is the State of Virginia why is the S-E-C
UNCLASSIFIED
24
FBI-00034192
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
calling me I don't want anything you know like yeah I'm not telling them
anything but like
JV OV Right
AP Yeah leave me out of it
JV OV Yeah
AP Is effectively what I got immediately and so you know when we did sort of a cost
benefit analysis of like proceeding versus just letting it

you know play out
JV Yeah
AP We chose to just let it

play out because it
was you know it was more
JV Expensive
AP It was expensive yeah
JV UI
AP And we were already burning money Right
JV Right
AP Like we're it's not a you know at the end of the day the ironic component of
this is I get called uh not a very good steward of capital Uh but I I'm actually
being a really good steward of capital by not fighting you know lawsuits
that
JV OV Right
AP I'll never win Right like we're not gonna you know umm Yeah So
JV Yeah Yeah and I mean Umm we want to uh clear that up because if what
Virginia is saying is true If there's like absolutely no revenue and you're
claiming all this revenue that's obviously a problem Right
AP Okay
JV I mean do you recognize how that is like an issue if you are telling investors you
have a hundred million dollars in revenue and you don't I mean
UNCLASSIFIED
25
FBI-00034193
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV I do Umm especially in a publicly traded scenario
JV Yeah
AP Right Like we're not publicly traded company
JV Right Right
AP We give investors uh about ninety nine percent more information than any other
private company you know has ever given
JV OV Yeah
AP Right And so I own sixty-eight percent of the company along with another
gentleman
JV Okay
AP Uh 1-1 do agree with you Umm So yeah I mean 1-1-1 do agree you but I don't
think that it's umm you know we're the one thing that's never been
proposed here is that we're doing anything criminal
JV OV Yeah
AP Uh with the-the money Like right I don't even own a home I rent a house
JV Yeah
AP I you know we've got my wife and I don't live lavishly but we're you know
trying to build a you know an honest business here Uh albeit with you know
uh some some outside factors that have happened with the State of Virginia and
you know other places but uh we're not like uh

JV OVUI
AP Yeah 1-1
guess let me ask you guys Like is that what's being proposed Is that
we
JV OV Well
AP Are some way in some way shape or form I mean do we probably have paid
other executives not me but other executives
UNCLASSIFIED
26
FBI-00034194
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV OV Yeah
AP More money than we should have but we were just trying to grow up as a
company
JV Yeah Yeah yeah No I don't think anybody is you know going to have an
issue with you know if you're trying to truly operate your business you got to
do what you got to do right
AP Right
JV You got to pay business expenses that's normal I think in any company
business small large Umm
AP Sure
JV But I guess what the issue that we are trying to understand here
AP Mm-hmmm
JV is the revenue thing So earlier when I asked you the hundred million dollars
where did that go
AP Yeah
JV You know you told me all the expenses which I'm sure there are tons of
expenses that you have pay in this kind of company but when I say where did it
go I mean like like what bank account did it

go to Like it-like we can clear this
up right now
CM OV Yeah like did they did they ever ask you in part of the investigation with
the Virginia State Corporation Commission did they ask you it seemed like they
would've been kind of put away if they'd ask you to produce
JV OV Yeah
CM Statements Saying can you show us

AP OV lull
JV OV lull
CM The revenue and then did they ask you do that Or did they leave it out
UNCLASSIFIED
27
FBI-00034195
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP So they asked us where we had banking relationships with
JV Yeah
AP Umm two of the three immediately called and canceled our credit lines there
CM Okay
AP Umm and Yeah So that kind of ended my interest in umm pursuing that Right
So I mean 1-1-1 guess I hear I see the little UI perspective but like
we're we're working to make this umm we're working to get true our ex
investors Umm you know I think uh at the end of the day umm that's going to be
what we're going to have a hard time especially based on umm where that
ended up almost immediately with our other banking relationships
JV Yeah
AP Uh So UI
JV Who do you bank with
AP Yeah I mean that like that that was the question that I answered the last time
JV OV Yeah
AP And then Like I said UI
JV Yeah Bank of America that's obviously one that they talk about Umm I mean is
there somewhere else that the is coming through

money
AP Yeah We have other banking relationships So every small company goes to
every bank that it can go to to get uh
JV Yeah
AP A line of credit
JV Right
AP Or you know a better uh percentage on payroll or you know whatever right
JV OV Yeah Right
UNCLASSIFIED
28
FBI-00034196
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP So yeah we have a handful of banking relationships
JV Okay
AP Umm and they're all they're getting to a point where they're actually healthy
again Uh the ones that have been you know engaged with by the State of
Virginia So
JV Yeah
CM Were you able to produce uh documentation without you know obviously us
having to
go through any kind of like a proceeding civilly or anything like that Or
not civilly but uh

you know going through like a grand jury or whatever
JV OV Right UI
CM Could you produce statements and documents that would basically back up the
revenue
AP With this point you know seeing as how we're looking to reset the business
CM OV I know you're going forward yeah
AP With separate investors why would we have to go down that path
JV OV Yeah
CM OV Just to put this piece to bed it's it's an issue obviously on on our side is
looking at that If the revenue is in question
AP Right
CM One of the things we have to look at obviously is is there backup for it
JV OV Right
AP OV Right
CM And obviously short of it sounds like you had problems once this investigation
went the route to the banks
JV OV Right
UNCLASSIFIED
29
FBI-00034197
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
CM The banks shut you down So I guess in in you know to try to get around
that I was wondering if you'd add documentation or statements that you could
provide that we could basically look at and figure out you know this revenue
exist is it there
AP OV Yeah
CM You know Without us having to go to banks and then causing additional issues
JV OV Yeah
AP Right So let let me ask you this So like assuming the fact assuming that we get
to a place where we get back to zero with investors
JV Mm-hmm
AP Umm we get all of my existing investors of which you know again still a
minority ownership stake in the business umm to a place where they UI we

understand the business we understand what we're engaging UI umm we're
happy with that And then I get you on the same page with that
JV OV Mm-hmm
AP Umm like why would we need to go back in time to to-to figure any of that out
JV OV Right
AP Is that a scenario that we can that we can discuss
JV UI
AP As opposed to going back into into the last Uh cause what what I want is to move
forward Uh it sounds like that's what you're here on a mission to do as well Uh
we want to get everybody on the same page and then just move forward Our
business is going to do a lot less revenue uh than we had historically in 2018 So
here's the other challenge that I had is now I go from reporting one-sixty-five to
actually doing a hundred to doing less in 2018 then everybody bails once they
hear that you know the F-B-I is involved
JV Yeah
AP Uh
UNCLASSIFIED
30
FBI-00034198
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
CM That's why we've done this as a courtesy to you I know it's kind of weird we
show up at your wife at your house there
AP OV I appreciate that
JV OV Yeah
CM We just did it to kind of keep it

you know as low-key as we can to kind of see
how guage you kind of get a feel for
AP We have a business that's looking to reorganize I have investors that are open to
that right now
JV Yeah
AP Umm I want to get UI with investors My plan is to do that within the next six
months so I have invested my own personal assets that are being liquidated
Things that are being sort of like umm you know effectively put in a place so
they can be moved to our investors uh if they want to take advantage of that and
then we just want to move on Uh is that uh something I can ask for Is there
opportunity to do that
JV Yeah
AP So that we get to a place where everybody's just happy and we're moving
forward
JV Well yeah let's hope Let's talk about that Okay
AP How do we do it
JV Umm so the situation that we're in now is that you know we have we have an
obligation right so you know we have to figure out what happened and the
reason for that is you're saying one thing UI so when the UI when people are
giving you money based on material UI right So you're counting someone to
have a hundred million dollars in revenue and someone's investing based on that
information we have to determine was that information accurate at the time
right
AP OV Right
JV So if it
was great we can we can end this right now I
mean we can just please
UNCLASSIFIED
31
FBI-00034199
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
look here's revenue You could say Jamie here's the revenue Here's a hundred
million dollars This is where it is Cameron and I will go back we'll check it out
we'll be like case closed nothing else to do here right we're good Umm and
that would be the end of it You know the problem is if that's not the case So
if if there isn't a hundred million dollars in revenue coming in umm we would
hope that you would know what guys I made a mistake

tell us right now and you
you know my this is what I wanted my business to be You know I I had these
dreams of having a great business You know You're a family man you have a
wife and kids and you just wanted to have a you know successful business and
make a good life for your family I get that and I respect that And you know
what if that was the situation that you were just trying to make this great business
and do good for your family then we respect that You know we see anybody
would do that Right But if the situation is here that you were lying to investors
just to get all this money just to go blow it and just to be rich That's that's a
different story
AP So if I may
JV Yeah
AP 1-1 don't think anyone invested in because of the revenue number I think they
may say they did now but the fact of the matter is is that our company whether it
is a hundred and sixty million or zero million right now
JV OV Yeah
AP Is not valuable until it's billions of dollars and every one of our investors knew
that going into it and so I would you know if 1-1 had the opportunity to fight
this situation
JV OV Yeah
AP With the State of Virginia that's the position I would have taken Is that people
that are standing beside us right now don't care What they know is that the
upside of what we're building is huge and they know that I'm not stealing from
the company they know that none of the employees are stealing from the
company that we're just trying to create a very valuable asset here
JV Right
AP Uh based on a compounding revenue Uh so 1-1-1 guess that's the only thing that I
would say to you is that no-one invested in the company or at least they
UNCLASSIFIED
32
FBI-00034200
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
shouldn't
JV Yeah
AP Have invested in the company based on some nominal amount of revenue
JV Well Right Well okay let's let's let's go along UI did your company have
a hundred million dollars in revenue
AP Then they should get their money back if that's all that they cared about then they
should and they are
JV OV But but can can you answer me questions if
AP OV Yeah We absolutely did
JV OV Is that revenue UI at the time
AP OV We absolutely did
JV Okay
AP Yeah I mean one hundred percent
JV So if we go and we try to find where that revenue is are we going to find it
AP Yeah
JV Okay where can we find it
AP We have a handful of banking relationships
JV But can you tell us where we can look Cause I am telling you we can we can
sweep the floor we can UI real quick if

you just tell us you know what Bank of
America that's where all the revenue is We will find it and we'll close it
CM We have to independently verify it or at least get something from you to like to
that we can basically look at and say
AP But I
guess here here's my challenge is that I don't know why we're going back
in time
JV OV lull
UNCLASSIFIED
33
FBI-00034201
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP When I'm closing relationships based on like if I wanted to fight this I would've
fought it
JV Yeah
CM Right
AP You see what I'm saying
JV OV Yeah
AP Like if I wanted to fight this I would've
CM What's the likelihood that you could be made completely whole with the investors
that
you got that that want to be out at this point I know you
AP Six months a hundred percent UI I'm going to liquidate real estate assets The
company's like I said shedding uh a lot of costs associated with the business Uh
so between those two things uh the culmination of those two things will make
that happen and then all investors will be uh
CM That's just initial principal like basically their initial investment there's no
additional on top of that just flat out whatever they put in
AP If I'm not mistaken I don't know off the top of my head but I think the State of
Virginia has asked for another ten percent on top of that
CM OV Okay
AP We can do the ten percent
CM OV Are you factoring that in as well yourself
JV UI
AP I'm factoring that in for the ten percent
CM OV What do you what do you look
AP OV Six months
CM What are you looking at that you ballpark figure to make yourself whole
UNCLASSIFIED
34
FBI-00034202
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Six million
CM Okay Have you done any paybacks yet to anybody to kind of
AP We've started that process
CM You have okay
AP So we've initiated paperwork umm and we haven't actually executed on the
payments yet but we've initiated paperwork
CM Okay
AP Uh with a thirty day grace period to make payments Uh which we're at the end of
that UI so we're we're we're about to make those payments
CM Is that paperwork just basically uh

AP Stock purchase agreement
CM Yeah okay So you're basically saying hey here's your chance to get out more or
less
AP That's right
CM Here's a Okay Is that uh is the dollar amount listed there with the ten percent
on top of it or it
just
AP The dollar amount initially for the stock purchase agreement just what they paid
CM Initialed yeah
AP We're going to go back afterwards and make the ten percent payments which
which I think is fair to get everybody their money back first that wants to get it
JV Yeah
CM Right
AP Uh So
CM Where's that going to leave you and your business going forward financially I
mean will you be able to operate effectively like
UNCLASSIFIED
35
FBI-00034203
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Like I said UI It's up here Right
JV Right
AP I mean there's no doubt about it we're bouncing back from a you know a
challenging situation So uh we're not uh we're not proposing to any of the
existing investors that none of this is happening We're being very upfront with
everyone about the process that we're going through Uh yeah We want to we
just want to reset and move on
JV Is there current revenue flow coming in that can use to pay the investors back
AP There is and that's what I'm using So between that and liquidating existing
assets like that's what we're using to pay them back Uh but we can't sell
securities uh under you know the State of Virginia so

JV Okay
AP UI
JV Okay Umm so what about the the whole Virginia thing about the UI the
customers I know FedEx is a big one that they're saying they're obviously
saying that FedEx is one of your largest customers and they're saying FedEx is
not UI Umm so is FedEx one of your revenue generators
AP FedEx through a channel partner is one of our revenue generators
JV Okay
AP Umm FedEx is one of the companies that called me the day after the S-E-C
called them Wilmer Hales PH is another one of the companies that called me
the day after the S-E-C called them and said I don't know why you're
representing us don't mention UI we work for partners UI

JV Yeah
AP That's debatable Umm so what we do is is a new tech UI TN

BACKGROUND NOISE I'm not going to lie to you this has been incredible
painful to us we've had to reset a lot of relationships We have a lot of customers
and partners and UI
CM OVI lull
UNCLASSIFIED
36
FBI-00034204
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP So Yeah it's not been something easy to process alone
JV Yeah
AP Uh but I think we can get it right I think we can definitely UI I think that uh
the investors that are in are happy to be in and happy to give us a chance to uh
turn things around I think everybody could adjust into the idea of the company of
what it could become apparently some folks want to use this as an opportunity to
get out happy to give them that
JV OV Yeah
AP Uh and I think you referenced my blog post earlier like that's what I meant was
like I counsel a lot of early stage entrepreneurs uh and historically I've said go
get money where you can get money I don't believe that anymore I believe we
should get money directly from sources that are willing to you know go along
on you know early stage tech ventures and not individuals that probably don't
have money to risk anyway
JV OV Yeah
AP That's not a shot at them Like 1-1-1 don't want uh anybody to not get what they
want out of this There has been a pile on effect though I'll tell you it's very
convenient that UI
CM As the opportunity to get out basically you're saying
AP Yeah
CM Yeah
AP Uh you know you-you-you invest in companies like mine to get none of your
money back or to get a hundred times your money back
JV Yeah
AP That's why you engage in in-in ventures like ours
JV Yeah
AP And whether we have you know whatever our revenue number is that's not
why you get engaged and our investors UI Some of them are using this as as a
way to get out and that's fine Like I want to give them that opportunity
UNCLASSIFIED
37
FBI-00034205
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV Yeah So if revenue UI What would be the main driver for someone who UI
AP Usage Usage Engagement Uh yeah the amount of UI usage consumption
that we have uh you know again I UI the big deals that we have sort of like
that we're that we're working on umm that's how you invest in a real estate
business Is the upside
JV When you say usage um like what do you mean by that
AP Consumption Yeah so our platform umm is a voice platform that people engage
using multi-party UI
JV Mm-hmm
AP Uh you know we're we're on a pace right now uh where we're consuming two
hundred fifty to three hundred million minutes a month we were up as high as a
half a billion minutes on a monthly basis uh about a year ago and so that's why
you engage with what we're up to I mean if
you read anything about our
industry um UI it's all about consumption So like UI is a good example
They do uh they do a metered consumption model we do a subscription based
consumption model uh but they do a metered consumption so every time you dig
into one of their investor calls they'll tell you how much you know people how
many times people are getting UI Uh and that is what is interesting about our
model is that UI turned upward people are going to pay more for it and they're
going to become more uh addicted to you know the uh the app
JV So what kind of people are using like using your product Is it

regular just
consumers like Cameron and 1 just using it as individuals or is it more like
businesses
AP Businesses So yeah it's what we define as knowledge workers So knowledge

workers are uh people that work in an industry with a specific strategy uh UI to
distribute to another knowledge worker Uh the Economist says there's like seven
hundred and fifty million of those worldwide And they spend a lot of their time
on conference calls Um and so what we've built is a platform that you can
consume through the apps that

you uh work with on a daily basis So like office
salesforce UI like any of those apps that people use your email we can push
our multi-party UI through it you can just press a button and be on the phone
with like a handful of people So think about like Skype but integrated in the app
that you use UI Like that's what we do Uh in a nutshell
JV Okay And is that like how you generate the revenue
UNCLASSIFIED
38
FBI-00034206
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV It is
JV Based on people so like what would it costs for I

guess maybe UI
AP Anywhere from three dollars a month to thirty dollars a month depending on how
much you're willing to commit to Umm so yeah It can be as little as three if
you've got thousands and thousands and thousands of seats uh or it can be as
much as thirty you know UI has got fifty to a hundred you know seats
JV Yeah Okay So so about how many customers do you have currently
UI because that hundred million dollars
AP Three thousand
JV Three thousand customers
AP Three thousand yeah customers So actual like enterprises using the uh using
the service
JV How does that get you a hundred million in revenue
AP Uh so yeah between three and thirty dollars a month per subscription uh a couple
hundred people per uh

CM Customer
AP Per customer yeah
CM Per customer
AP Per customer two hundred people on the average
JV Umm well so I guess I'm really I'm stuck on this whole revenue thing I don't
know if you feel good with the revenue but umm I mean you have to realize is
that a problem and why are we going back in time you know and UI it doesn't
really make the problem go away you know if the revenue doesn't exist So
you're telling me it exists and I want to believe you I want to believe you and I
want to believe that the revenue is there but I'm having a hurdle just getting over
that because I don't feel like
AP What if none of the investors exists I mean what if we just wipe all the investors
out would that be UI
UNCLASSIFIED
39
FBI-00034207
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV But yeah but yeah but that's not Ull so we have to deal with we have to deal
with what happened right So you can't just make it

go away right Well what
happened happened with UI and we have to figure out you know what the truth
is right now I'm really struggling with that and you know again I want to I
want to believe there was really this revenue but you're not really helping me get
to that point
AP You telling me that you want to believe it is like you telling me with all due
respect You don't need to do that like it-it's okay
JV UI
AP Again I mean I understand the position that you're in Uh I guess the question
that I had
JV OV Right
AP Was like if-if none of those investors exists
JV Mm-hmm
AP Which is something we talked about we talked about just wiping everybody out
buying them all out and then starting from the beginning where does that leave
you in UI
JV UI You know what we're looking at is

you know and let's just let's just talk
frank here because umm let's just say that there was UI right Say that a
hundred million dollar revenue didn't exist and you have no way to prove it we
can't find Let's say we dig and dig and dig and we can't find this hundred million
dollar revenue We can't find it anywhere Well then we have a problem because
now we have potential wire fraud okay UI I don't want to be too loud here but
then you have potential wire fraud are you familiar with what wire fraud is
when you were making this material misrepresentation UI in order to obtain
money and that's the material UI whether you think it is or not there are going to
be investors that say yes it mattered to me that this company UI a hundred

million dollars in revenue that's why I invested UI
AP Yeah
JV We do this every day we know what they're going to say they're going to say it
mattered to me so the investors are going to say If Andy had told me zero dollars
in revenue I wouldn't have given him the money
UNCLASSIFIED
40
FBI-00034208
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP OV Sure
JV If we then prove there is not revenue Well now we have an issue right
AP Yeah
JV Umm so that's why if that's the case just you know we would appreciate it if
you would just say you know what that's the case and let's do what we need to
do But you're telling us there is this revenue
AP Mm-hmm
JV So all we are asking you to do is tell us where we can find it and we can wrap it
up
AP Right
JV Or you can tell us you know what Jamie Cameron I screwed up and UI What
we cannot have is we can't have you sitting here telling us yes there was revenue
yes there was revenue UI I want to make that a hundred percent clear that we
are federal agents
AP Sure
JV And lying to a federal agent is a crime okay And we want that to be perfectly
clear
AP Yeah
JV So that
you you got that you're on board with that Can you tell us where we
can find this revenue
AP Okay I'm not comfortable engaging in this part of the conversation any further
JV Okay
AP Because like I said with the State of Virginia like this ended up like opening up
a whole can of worms I can tell you with the State of Virginia we're looking to
settle all those claims We want to make investors whole that want to be made
whole and then we want to move forward with investors that want to move
forward umm if that's the position that we're in
JV Okay
UNCLASSIFIED
41
FBI-00034209
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Umm I hope that that would satisfy you as well
JV Yeah well
AP And that we get to a place where we meet in the middle and you say you know
what no harm no foul nobody's upset nobody's uh
CM So here's the only concern there is like let's say let's say that this that this
could actually happen even if

you could make people whole
JV Yeah
CM I mean that does obviously make the situation better umm the issue is if you've
done it
once what's going to stop you from going out in
your new business
venture that's why we we I realize going forward we look at that yes but if it
happened it
happened and we have to kind of verify whether it did or didn't you
know what I'm saying and if uh even if
you clean it
up because this happens all
the time and we do this you know for a living
AP Sure
CM And we look at a variety of different scenarios and it's not that the intent was
nasty most of the time it's that I mean I couldn't tell you what UI I have no
idea I would not even begin to know what it's like to sit in your shoes
AP Yeah no I UI
CM And deal with the kind of like
AP UI The new version of me has no intent of ever raising money again I plan to
hire a C-F-O and have them come in and manage all of UI

CM Sounds like you're you're
AP UI That's my goal right
CM Sounds like you're quite gifted at actually raising capital cause 1-1 don't you
sound like you're really gifted at raising capital
AP But here's the challenge that I have and this is a similar position that the State of
Virginia put me in umm I'm actually not Our-our competitors have raised
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars I've only raised tens
of millions right
UNCLASSIFIED
42
FBI-00034210
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
CM Right
AP And so UI
CM Still I mean it's still impressive it's own right
JV UI
AP It's actually not like for our UI
JV Ull
CM Yeah okay I gotcha but
AP To To uh To look at it from your perspective and to

say potentially for it to be
acted
upon in a criminal way I
agree It's a lot of money right But as far as
companies like ours raising money we've struggled with that historically which is
why we've gone to some of these call it an angel investor types of sources uh
which are fine with respect to getting quick capital but they're not great for long
term investors UI but long story short I think you're actually paying me a
compliment it's actually not accurate what I'm good at is selling
CM UI
AP And getting in front of customers and closing deals uh our plan was to bring a C
F-0 so once we get back to even with all of these folks hopefully we get there
before you get to wherever you're going to wherever you're trying to get to umm
and then I can come to
you and I can say hey I don't want to sell securities
anymore I don't want anything to do with this Right What I want to do is run a
business that allows me to execute on the vision execute on the strategy
CM Right let someone else do the uh

AP OV Hire a C-F-0 to come in and like deal with UI So that's my goal
JV UI
AP I don't know how quickly you get to where you're going
JV OV Well
AP I can tell you I gave you the timeline for where I'm getting to where I'm going
UNCLASSIFIED
43
FBI-00034211
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
CM Yeah
JV Yeah
AP And that's kind of my path
JV Well as far as our end and how quickly we're going to get from A to B You
know I'll tell you I've looked at the bank records and it kind of looks like what
Virginia said and that's why you know and that's why UI time here umm you
know
AP Yeah from that account I

agree with you Yeah
JV OV Yeah
AP I mean a hundred percent Yeah from that from that particular institution with
that relationship
JV OV Yeah I mean you know what it

you know what the bank UI look like
AP OVI lull
JV I mean you know they're your they're your accounts right obviously
CM And we and we could get to where we need to be a lot quicker if we knew from
you like if
you provided us the UI you know what I'm saying that's
JV OV That's the thing like or just all you have to I mean is UI
CM OV If
you don't if
you don't have it that's one thing that's that's
JV OV lull
CM it is what is is And again I mean like I know you're I get where you're at
you want to this is it would be nice to have this all behind you and we just
have to do our job our part of it and uh our issue is always a balance between a
couple things One is you know what did happen and also as I mentioned is
like you know a lot of times you know we're not looking to send people to-to-to
jail for life for things that don't make sense to send people to jail for life for
anything like that or even to send people to jail for things they didn't really do
that were criminal you know But we do have concerns sometimes about the
future as well you know what happened So a lot of times when we're looking at
things you know we are concerned is this going to be a pattern cause that's what
UNCLASSIFIED
44
FBI-00034212
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
happens a lot of time we see with people is they they close shop and I
mean they open up shop and kind of do the same model with a different brand
you know what I'm saying and and
JV OVI lull
AP Not my intention like I said I don't intend to sell securities a-again I intend to
liquidate assets UI and I intend to shed profits from this company to pay
investors back Hire a C-F-0 and raise money if that's what we need to do in the
future
JV OV Yeah
AP So that's not my that's not really uh and I'm not like running from you I was
excited to uh to meet with you when I realized
JV OV Yeah no we appreciate that
AP I'm not in
any way shape or and I'm not running from any of our investors
JV OV No Yeah UI
AP 1-1 return calls to everyone that calls me uh yeah we-we uh we have only shut
down communication with the State of Virginia because we felt like I can say I
know for certain that I was being bullied there uh my customers were being cold
called like I
JV OV Yeah
AP We we literally uh we had a handful of very large deals with FedEx and the
Hartford PH and other folks that didn't happen because these guys just like cold
called and didn't uh

JV OV Yeah
AP Didn't give us any warning didn't give them any warning uhjust called straight
through so uh
JV OV Right
AP That's my challenge with the situation UI I've tried to be you know anything
other than proactive like it hasn't played well for me so I want to be proactive
UI get these investors happy and whole sign a piece of paper that says they're
UNCLASSIFIED
45
FBI-00034213
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
happy and whole and then move on And then what I'd love to do is come back
and present to you and again I I'll meet with you everyday but UI but what
I'd like to do is make these investors happy and whole then meet with you and
develop a plan going forward uh where you get comfortable with exactly where
we are
JV OV Yeah
AP Uh cause it's a challenging business model right like I mean it's we've had a
challenge explaining it it was a challenge explaining it to the-the State of
Virginia we had a challenge explaining it to some of our uh investors when
pushed to so umm that that I'm willing to be you know incredibly open and
yeah I it-it would actually make my life easier if you participated in that
process
JV OV Yeah
AP Umm I've got some work to do in advance of that uh I appreciate the latitude to
get that done but I you got a job to do too
JV Yeah I know and I mean we appreciate that you know We appreciate you
meeting with us and we-we definitely take that into account you know and 1-1
I'll tell
you what's probably going to happen umm is
you know we we're the F
B-1 we investigate this that's what we do We don't have any power to filing
charges or doing anything like that that's the U-S Attorney's Office right the
Department of Justice
AP Mm-hmm Yeah
JV So you know what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to go back
to the UI and talk to the prosecutor and we're going to have to tell him this is
what happened You know we met with Andy and this is what he told us this is
where we're at is what we have found in our investigation and then

this that
prosecutor is going to make their decision on if they want to actually move

forward with charges or not
AP Yeah
JV Okay UI
CM OV That's not really our position we basically just fax
UNCLASSIFIED
46
FBI-00034214
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV OV lull
AP OV lull
CM And the fact that
AP OV I get UI and I appreciate the clarity but I think I UI
JV OV UI So you know umm there is going to be probably more that we're going
to do on our end So I'm telling you that right now umm as a courtesy I know
you said you didn't get much notice from the state you know There will be
people getting calls we have to do that You know if we can't get to a point
where we need to be just through you we're going to have to what we have to do
right
AP Sure
JV Umm so head's up that's going to happen Umm and then you know we may
have to meet again under different circumstances You know just depending on
how things go you know with our case and and with the prosecutor and how they
feel If they feel you were being forthcoming with us

AP OV Yeah
JV Umm but you know I'm telling you I don't think you think it's that important
about this revenue but I'm telling you it is it is key
AP OV Okay
JV Umm you know especially having the accounting background like I revenueis
revenue you know What you can have you can run a tech business you can run
a vet clinic you can run whatever But revenue is revenue and it's either there or
it's not So if it's not there and you're saying it was there and you we have
financial statements that you were giving to investors that I can tell you right
now is it is a problem
AP OV Okay
JV Umm you know what I was hoping my hope for today was to more not
whether or not the revenue exists or not because you know I have my thoughts on
if it does or not umm it's more of a why you know You know why why did
you say it did if it didn't that kind of thing
UNCLASSIFIED
47
FBI-00034215
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Mm-hmm
JV Umm and that's kind of what I wanted to understand because you know when we
look at these types of things we're trying to understand more like what kind of
person are we dealing with You know Is it someone that is just a bad person and
is out to just to screw people over and steal their money and live a lavish lifestyle
or are we dealing with someone that is actually just trying to start a legitimate
business and you know maybe lied a little bit and made some mistakes and trying
to make good for the family and you know that's kind of how I envision you with
someone that is a family man UI You have five kids wife beautiful family and
I kind of pictured you as someone that just wanted to be a great father and a great
husband and you know screwed up screwed up you said you had a hundred
million dollars of revenue when you didn't You screwed up You know and it
happens well people screw up all the time you know And it's just about you
know why you did that and how we can overcome it now So that's kind of
AP Yeah
JV So that's my thought going into this umm

AP Okay
JV And you know
AP Well that's not the case
JV OV Okay
AP So yeah we have a good business Umm it's not you know as I said we've stated
the best version of what we believed our business to be just in hopes in showing
people the impact that it could have Umm But as far as uh proving that UI
I'm in a position where the State of Virginia has kind of ruined me uh
JV OV Okay
AP For opening up uh you know that side uh
CM OV UI
AP We're working to we're working to make right with investors that want to be
made whole
UNCLASSIFIED
48
FBI-00034216
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV Yeah
AP Umm and then you know I'd love to work with you in the plan going forward
but I understand that you have a job to do Uh yeah let's see what uh what
comes out of that UI It's not that I don't believe that it's a big deal
JV Yeah
AP It's a huge deal Uh there's just a lot at stake here relative to uh the big
opportunity for all of us to take advantage of this uh sort of business that
is that has a lot of momentum moving in the right direction So

CM So is there revenue that came into accounts that state did not look at
AP Yeah
CM Okay
AP Oh yeah
CM So the banks that are shut down your credit lines have they shut down your
accounts as well
AP UI
CM You said when they when they started doing some inquiries
AP OV Not all those UI
CM You had credit lines Okay so you still have so they just shut credit lines down
but they kept banking relationships open
AP Some did
CM Some did some didn't Okay So you had other accounts Now why did you not
provide those accounts to the state to kind of just appease the scenario you know
with them
AP Because I have credit relationships with those other accounts too right Like I
mean I I live on credit I'm a

CM You can still give the statements not even telling them you can provide
whatever documents you have you know as a
UNCLASSIFIED
49
FBI-00034217
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV OVI lull
AP But they would call that bank and they would tell them that I'm under
investigation and then that bank would call me and shut down my line of credit
Umm
CM UI
JV But would that be worth it to you than just to have this all go away You know
cause I mean you know if you if the revenue is there and you can just show me
UI everything we wouldn't be here we wouldn't even be here today right So
you know I'm just like why

AP UI
JV Why is it
important to you to have your
AP Well the opportunity for me is UI back from our existing investors So

JV Yeah
AP We have investors that don't see you know 1-1 you can you can roll your
eyes but it
is it's very cheap equity for us to engage in precision agreements and
then investors can either decide if

they want to invest when we go public or you
know never invest in us again Umm but for me personally what's about to
happen with this business and all the momentum that we have uh if they want to
get out I want them to get out And so when I looked at that as the only at least
initial downside from the State of Virginia that plus a percentage that to me is
the path of least resistance is buying that equity back and you know owning
more of my company Umm so
JV Well what I don't want to see happen is you start raising money from new
investors just to pay back these old investors because then that's going to open up
a whole other UI so you know that's we don't want to see that happen
AP We yeah we we're not allow to sell equity in our business so
JV Yeah but even if you're getting loans from people you know and then just using
that
money to
pay back investors just to get these investors away Then you're
going to get yourself into a bigger hole and you're going to have an issue with
these new investors so I'm hoping that's not what you're you're getting
yourself into
UNCLASSIFIED
50
FBI-00034218
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP No I think our yeah existing relationships are solid So

JV Okay
CM Well
JV Alright
CM Well anymore questions at all
JV No No Umm we're good
CM Any questions for us at all
JV Yeah I mean anything you want to know
AP OV No 1-1 don't think so Umm I uh no appreciate it uh

CM Well thanks for your time
AP OV UI Got to sit down with you Yeah no thank you And again 1-1-1 have not
dodged and or
JV OV Yeah
AP Missed an opportunity to engage with anyone other than the State of Virginia
when I said hey I'm just not going to participate in this you know any longer Uh
you know we we sort of disengaged umm but yeah I'm excited to talk about
our business I'm excited about the future
JV OV lull
AP Umm and what I would love to do is have an open dialogue with you about how
we disengage with investors so that we're doing it

properly right Like
when currently the State of Virginia you've seen the order it's pretty
ambiguous uh you know we have made a couple calls into the State of Virginia
to say hey is this S-P-A uh agreeable with you Do you have an issue with the
way UI Umm they've kind of been ambiguous umm my gut tells me that they
don't really deal with that they probably hand that to somebody like you Uh if
that's the case then we would love to you know engage with you and or you
know the prosecutor because UI I don't want to make this problem worse
JV OV lull
UNCLASSIFIED
51
FBI-00034219
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP I do want to disengage from our UI investors We want to reset we want to
present a story that everybody agrees with uh

JV Yeah And you know that probably will be the next step
AP Okay
JV That it
probably will get to the point where we have a prosecutor on board and
UI you may want to get an attorney
CM I guess not a just civil one I assume right what you have right now is a civil
attorney that's been
AP That's right
JV Yeah UI So
CM They're not usually the best well the most suited for what we do You know
what I'm saying everyone have their different specialties but
JV Yeah
CM Civil attorneys aren't always the most I mean unless you unless yours feel
competent to work through criminal matters as well
JV I don't Yeah I don't know that they even technically can represent you so
CM I don't think they can
AP No UI The inquiries that I've made is that if it escalated to this point that we
would need criminal representation
JV Yeah
CM Okay
AP UI
CM That's when I was asking earlier if

you had I didn't know
AP We-we've not gone that far but I recognize that that's the uh
JV Yeah Umm I think it
really is probably the best thing to do at this point just
UNCLASSIFIED
52
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
because you know once you're getting involved with a prosecutor they're
probably going to ask you that and it

may be you know so that's why we wanted
to talk to you today cause once we get past this point umm once you are
represented we're not going to really be able to talk to you anymore at that point
AP OV Okay
JV It's going to be more of your attorney talking to the prosecutor type of thing
CM OV Yeah we don't
JV UI Doing their thing at that point You know we don't communicate with you
any further Umm unless you initiated it we wouldn't be talking to

you
CM Yeah usually your attorney is present when we talk to you that ways
JV Yeah yeah I know be more of a probably like a situation where you would
come out toumm UI if it

got to that point so you would want to look for
somebody that can actually ummpractice law criminally in Virginia
AP OV Okay
JV They would they would have to be able to do that in order to represent you out
there Umm and then we would just go from there so umm that's it You know
we if anything else comes of this you know we'll move forward at that time
You know we may contact you and
AP I'll hear from you or I'll hear from someone else OV UI
JV Probably what would happen if you if you do end up retaining a lawyer
CM OV Yeah Let us know
JV Let us know
CM I think do you have your wife has her business card I believe but I don't
JV Yeah I can give you one
AP I have your card she said UI
CM Oh okay
UNCLASSIFIED
53
FBI-00034221
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
JV UI Yeah so umm my cell's on the back The number that you called me on
Umm you do retain
if an attorney umm let me know just give me their contact
information and I'll

pass it along to the prosecutor and then they'll probably just
be in touch that way
AP Okay
JV umm I think that's probably best
CM Yeah
JV Best way to
go about it Umm yeah
AP Alright
JV Let us know Alright
Only background noise heard from 0102 34 until 01 02 41 1
JV Thank you for meeting with us Umm UI

AP Hey yeah thank you I appreciate it
CM UI Thank you for your time
AP I appreciate it You're welcome
Only background noise heard from 0 1 0246 until 0 1 025 1
JV UI
CM UI use the restroom here UI
JV UI
Only background noise heard from 0 1 025 5 until 0 1 0303
AP When's your flights out to Virginia
CM Tomorrow afternoon
JV OV Tomorrow
UNCLASSIFIED
54
FBI-00034222
UNCLASSIFIED
File 318B-WF-2919820
Session 0008
AP Okay
CM Gives a little bit of time with
AP Right on
CM Not too much
AP Doing anything fun in L-A
CM Uh we have some dinner tonight but it's getting to be about uh

AP It's late for you yeah UI
CM Nine o'clock and I've got four children myself including a three year old little
guy at home
AP OVI Lill
CM So I tire out around nine nine-thirty myself So
AP Have a safe trip okay UI

CM Alright yeah Take care
JV UI
CM Yeah is it
right here UI
Only background noise heard from 0103 50 until 01 04 14
End of call recording
UNCLASSIFIED
55

Powers FBI Interview Transcript

Încărcat de

Informații document

Drepturi de autor

Formate disponibile

Partajați acest document

Partajați sau inserați document

Opțiuni de partajare

Vi se pare util acest document?

Este necorespunzător acest conținut?

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

Powers FBI Interview Transcript

Încărcat de

Drepturi de autor:

Formate disponibile

Case 1:19-cr-00213-RDA Document 55-1 Filed 11/08/19 Page 1 of 55 PageID# 203

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

9325 Discovery Boulevard

File Number 318B-WF-2919820

Requesting Official s and Office s SA Jamie Vera WFO

Task Number s and Date Completed

Name and Office of Transcriber OST Rebecca Nelson WFO

Name and Office of Reviewer

Source File Information

Name of Audio File or CD Andrew Powers Interview 121818 File 0008

Date Time Duration 12182018 04 45PM Pacific Time Duration 01 0414

UFI Unidentified Female I

U172 Unidentified Female 2

I I Exegesis or TranslatorTranscriber's Notes TN

Andrew Powers at the Westdrift PH Hotel in Manhattan Beach Address is

fourteen hundred Park View Avenue

Only background noise heard from 0022 until 0044

CM Can you pop the trunk real quick

Only background noise heard from 0046 until 0222

Only background noise heard from 0223 until 0233

AP Hey UI how are you

JV Um wanna is there a place maybe like a table or something UI that

Only background noise heard from 0254 until 0258

AP We do yeah we're working on UI

CM Is it like self-service here or

JV OV UI Okay we'll grab UI

UMI Hi how are you

AP Hi are we okay to grab a seat

UMI UI anywhere you'd like Ul

UMI UI be right over here

JV Okay thank you

UM2 How're we doing UI

AP IA So you all came up from Virginia

CM Yep work out of Manassas

CM Got an office out there

AP 0 we can probably sit in the corner

CM We have a flight today wasn't uh

AP Air travel-air travel will do that to ya Ul

JV OV Yeah UI It's a long flight

JV Did you guys um moved out here recently

AP We moved out here about four months ago

AP Um had to drove so we had the dogs and five kids

JV all the way out here

UI hang with him whenever I can

JV Well that's good

AP uh Nashville Oklahoma City New Mexico L-A four days

AP OV Got the dogs out Ul

AP we were worried about the dogs in the uh pressurized cabin

JV How are you

UFI Would you like a menu

AP Just a coffee please

UFI Just coffee Okay

CM I'm fine too thank you

JV Yeah I know I drank all my water on the way here

AP So uh yeah in UI the kids flew out uh with my wife So yeah

AP New York and uh D-C Boston uh

CM OV Do you drive all the time or you fly

AP 4-1 make the trip all the No I don't drive UI

got family out in uh like Utah and Idaho

CM So we've done that drive since getting married d-yeah it's

JV Yeah Virginia to Florida that's about as far as I drive

AP Four days of that So yeah it's the same thing

AP just for four straight days so

AP Yeah it was cool Uh it was s