Purn%c%ndr% Siv%rup% (In Pe%ce Profound)

On August 22, 2016

 
FALCON BOOKS INTERVIEWS
EXPLORING ENLIGHTENED LIVING
THROUGH HERMETIC MEDITATION
AND BEYOND
With Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9

F9lcon Books is presenting 9 series of interviews with se9soned

Hermetic pr9ctitioners 9nd those who follow 9 spiritu9l discipline.
The 9im being to sh9re the wisdom, knowledge 9nd underst9nding of
these se9soned pr9ctitioners with those just beginning the p9th 9nd
9s 9n inspir9tion to us 9ll. The focus of these discussions 9re guided
tow9rds the spiritu9l seeker.

Presenting tod9y 9n interview with Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9 some m9y

know him 9s ‘In  Pe9ce Profound ‘who sh9res his wisdom on
F9cebook 9nd h9s 9 blog with the s9me n9me ple9se view it here In
Pe9ce Profound. His blog focuses on Perenni9l Philosophy,
met9physics,, 9nd his own journey into the religion of S9ivite
Hinduism.

 When I discuss B9rdon, people often 9sk me, given th9t I 9m now 9
S9ivite Hindu 9nd pr9ctitioner of Yog9, 9nd no longer identify 9s 9
Hermetist, “How f9r did you get? Did you get to step 10?” My 9nswer:
I got to step 10, 9nd 9m still there. I h9ve met 9 few who h9ve
cl9imed to h9ve “completed” the tenth 9nd fin9l step, but w9s never
convinced. The tenth step is focused on re9lizing fin9l Unitive
Re9liz9tion, 9nd th9t is not the work of 9 few ye9rs, not does it le9ve
oneʼs person9lity 9s egocentric 9nd obsessed with “m9gic9l powers”
9s when one beg9n. If 9nything, B9rdonʼs Initi9tion Into Hermetics
 when pr9cticed with p9tience, diligence, 9nd sincerity will prep9re
you for 9nd le9d you tow9rd wherever your true spiritu9l home m9y
be. 

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9 

Firstly F9lcon Books would like to cordi9lly welcome Purn9c9ndr9

Siv9rup9  9nd th9nk you for sh9ring with us your time 9nd wisdom
with us.

M9ybe to st9rt with 9 contempl9tion on this poem th9t you wrote in

2013. Would you be h9ppy to exp9nd your experience 9nd the
outcome 9s 9 w9y of introduction to your journey.

Tried for Truth (2013) by Purn%c%ndr% Siv%rup%

In my soci*l life
I *m forced to st*rt over;
my person*lity w*s burnt to the ground
in * livid confl*gr*tion
whose p*in I w*s not sp*red by merciful *sphyxi*,
but m*de to feel *ll the w*y down.
I le*rnt of friends whose smiles for me rem*ined,
*nd discerned those who would be *s *nvils
*s the blows r*ined upon me.
Old friends m*de *new,
new friends m*de vener*ble,
f*lse friends left to flutter *nd f*de
like misprinted book le*ves ripped *nd tossed *w*y.
I do not rise *g*in from my own *shes, triumph*ntly,
but offer myself up *s bh*sm*
to gr*ce, *s l*urel crown,
the shining brows of those whose love st*ys true.

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9:: Interesting th9t you chose this p9rticul9r

poem. It c9me out of 9 period of time when I h9d to figure out who
my re9l friends were. More import9nt th9n the soci9l 9spect, though,
is the lesson th9t no m9tter wh9t is going on in your life, no m9tter
how difficult, 9 solid spiritu9l pr9ctice 9nd eng9gement with the
Divine c9n c9rry you through.

Z. F9lcon Books: Wh9t would you s9y h9s been the most
ch9llenging 9spect of your spiritu9l development ?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: I would s9y the gre9test ch9llenge is how the

spiritu9l life forces me to const9ntly reev9lu9te my own p9tterns of
thought 9nd beh9vior. You c9nʼt t9ke 9nything for gr9nted 9nymore,
not even your own ide9s 9nd emotions. In the modern school of
occult Hermeticism embodied in the works of Mouni S9dhu, V9lentin
Tomberg, P9pus, 9nd so on, it is commonly recognized th9t m9ny of
our thoughts 9re 9ctu9lly not our own, but inv9de our minds from our
environment, the people 9round us, the medi9 we t9ke in
(consciously or otherwise). It is therefore import9nt to me to be
vigil9nt 9nd deliber9te with my own ment9l environment, 9nd th9t is
f9r from e9sy; the mind gets 9w9y from us 9nd c9uses most of our
problems.

2. F9lcon Books: For those seeking 9 spiritu9l p9th wh9t 9dvice

would you offer ?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: This is 9ctu9lly one of the big re9sons why I

point people to Fr9nz B9rdon. The first four or so steps of Initi9tion
Into Hermetics, even if 9 person never goes p9st them, is the
found9tion of 9 lifetime reg9rdless of where else the spiritu9l life
goes from there. For those who donʼt feel quite re9dy for th9t sort of
commitment, though, I couldnʼt do 9ny better th9n to recommend
wh9t P9t9nj9li does in his Yog9 Sutr9s: Body conditioning, self-study,
9nd 9ttentiveness to God.

P9y 9ttention to your he9lth, p9y 9ttention to your ment9l hygiene,

9nd pr9y, pr9y, pr9y!

3.  F9lcon Books: As you w9lked 9long your p9th how h9ve you been
9ble to b9l9nce ‘being in the world but not of the world ?ʼ

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Itʼs 9 const9nt effort. I h9ve met 9 sm9ll

h9ndful of people who seem to h9ve this one down p9t, but for most
of us, I think itʼs 9 m9tter of cultiv9ting equ9nimity. The world is not
9n evil pl9ce, 9s some would h9ve it, but it is overflowing with
ch9llenges for our inner lives. The studies of history 9nd 9strology
9re of gre9t help for me, 9s they both reve9l how much th9t h9ppens
in the world is k9rmic in n9ture. Neither one m9kes me feel 9s if
things 9re predetermined, but cert9inly everything h9ppens
9ccording to est9blished p9tterns. Once we st9rt to recognize those
p9tterns, it becomes much e9sier to hold ourselves 9loof from them
9nd observe. Itʼs sort of like medit9tion on the m9cro level.

4. F9lcon Books: Could you ple9se sh9re with us your journey to

S9ivite Hinduism wh9t brought you there 9nd the benefits th9t 9re
offered to you?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Itʼs been more of 9 c9lling th9n 9nything. I

donʼt necess9rily refer to myself 9s 9 Hindu, these d9ys, though the
term fits 9nd serves 9s 9 useful shorth9nd. I 9m blessed to pr9ctice
Yog9 9nd T9ntr9 under the guid9nce of 9 mentor 9nd 9 Guru in the
gre9ter N9th tr9dition. I c9me to this point through ye9rs of
experiences in which my eyes would flood with te9rs 9t the sight of
cert9in im9ges of Siv9, 9nd in which I found myself spont9neously
writing devotion9l poetry to Him. Much like B9rdon, the tr9ditions of
Yog9 9nd T9ntr9 m9ke use of devotion to 9 person9l deity while
recognizing the tr9nsperson9l Divinity underlying 9ll forms, 9nd on
th9t person9l, devotion9l level, I felt irresistibly dr9wn to Siv9. I think
itʼs in Memories of Fr9nz B9rdon th9t 9 recollection is given of
B9rdon suddenly turning to 9 student 9nd dem9nding, “Who is your
person9l deity?” If he 9ppe9red before me 9nd m9de th9t dem9nd of
me, I could inst9ntly respond: Siv9!

N9th pr9ctice h9s given me not only 9 solid devotion9l b9se, but 9lso
9 deepening medit9tive pr9ctice, 9 very 9d9pt9ble ritu9l structure,
9nd—most import9ntly of 9ll—9ccess to 9 te9cher who is the most
9dept spiritu9l pr9ctitioner Iʼve encountered.

5. F9lcon Books: Since to follow 9 system like B9rdons requires 9 high

degree of discipline wh9t g9ve you the endur9nce 9nd drive to c9rry
on working through to step 10.
Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: I first st9rted, 9s so m9ny do, in se9rch of
m9gic9l powers. Th9t w9s enough to sust9in me for 9 bit, but very
quickly the process of le9rning 9bout my own inner workings 9nd my
proper rel9tionship to the m9crocosm took up the bulk of my interest.
Discipline 9nd endur9nce sort of come of themselves, 9fter 9 cert9in
point, or 9t le9st th9tʼs been my experience. Perh9ps th9tʼs one of
the roles of gr9ce: we cre9te or open up the ch9nnels 9nd gr9ce
flows into them.

6:.F9lcon Books: How would you s9y your life h9s ch9nged since
entering the spiritu9l p9th 9nd now where you perceive the world?
How h9s your inter9ction 9nd perception of the world ch9nged?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: These 9re big questions, not e9sy to 9nswer.

Cr9ig Willi9ms, 9uthor of C9ve of the Numinous, 9 wonderful book on
T9ntr9, often uses the phr9se “s9cr9ment9l vision” in convers9tion.
He me9ns by this the experience of sensing the essenti9l Me9ning of
phenomen9 in 9nd through the phenomen9 themselves. Modern
k9bb9list D9vid Ch9im Smith spe9ks in terms of dissolving the
b9rriers of perception which keep us from consciously experiencing
the oce9n of Me9ning in which we perpetu9lly swim. In the N9th9
tr9dition, it is the experience beyond du9lism 9nd nondu9lism. The
go9l is for this experience to be perpetu9l, every moment of every
d9y, even during sleep, but even 9 t9ste of it is life-ch9nging.

7. F9lcon Books:  For those f9cing gre9t ch9llenges on the p9th, wh9t
encour9gement would you offer them?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Wh9tever im9ge of the Divine you feel dr9wn

to, infl9me yourself in pr9ying! Pr9yer gets 9 b9d r9p, these d9ys,
especi9lly 9mong m9ny of those interested in “m9gic” 9nd “the
occult”, but pr9yer is the gre9test key to spiritu9l he9lth 9nd 9n
undefe9t9ble 9ttitude th9t I know. Pr9yer doesnʼt h9ve to be 9 bunch
of words, but c9n be just 9 silent 9bid9nce in the Presence of the
Deity. B9thing in gr9ce like this e9ch d9y is refreshing 9nd
strengthening in 9 w9y th9t nothing else is. Get close to N9ture; if
possible, spend time in the woods, in the w9ter, in the mount9ins,
wherever you feel dr9wn. In 9ny c9se, get out of doors, get exercise,
bre9the fresh 9ir, let the light of the Sun 9nd the Moon w9sh 9cross
your skin. This 9ll sounds trite until you re9lly need it, 9nd then it c9n
s9ve your life.

8. F9lcon Books: Is there 9nything you would like to p9rticul9rly sh9re

with us 9ll?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: I think itʼs f9nt9stic th9t there 9re people like
you out there keeping Fr9nz B9rdonʼs wisdom 9live 9nd m9king it
9ccessible to those who need it. I once spoke on the phone with
Gerh9rd H9nswille of Merkur, prob9bly 9bout 9 dec9de 9go, 9nd he
s9id something th9t I will never forget 9s long 9s I live: “The pr9ctice
of Hermetics is nothing without love. Trying to pr9ctice Hermetics
without love is like trying to drive 9 c9r 100 miles per hour without
9ny g9s.” I think th9tʼs the thing. It isnʼt 9lw9ys e9sy to keep it in
mind, but itʼs worth the effort to try.

Specific B%rdon Rel%ted Questions

1.  Wh9t would you consider the most v9lu9ble 9spect of the B9rdon
Tr9ining?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Like so m9ny other spiritu9l pr9ctices, I think

the biggest thing is how much you le9rn 9bout your own mind. Even if
9 person gets nothing else out of the pr9ctice, th9tʼs 9lre9dy
enormous.

2 .F9lcon Books:  For those who 9re st9rting out wh9t 9dvice would
you offer?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: T9ke the e9rly steps seriously. It is e9sy to

become tempted to skip the b9sics, thinking th9t youʼve seen it 9ll
before, especi9lly if youʼve worked with some other system or some
org9niz9tion, but t9ke it slowly 9nd eng9ge with e9ch 9nd every
pr9ctice to the full 9s you go. Itʼs worth the extr9 effort.

3.F9lcon Books: Some will be 9w9re th9t you h9ve posted 9 series of
blog posts on IIH 9re you like to continue this?  

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Yes, I fully intend to post more on IIH 9nd

B9rdon gener9lly. Thereʼs so much to s9y! Besides which, I
underst9nd th9t not everybody w9nts or needs 9 “religious” focus 9t
9ny given time, 9nd B9rdon presents such 9 good spiritu9l pr9ctice
for those people who feel the need for spiritu9lity but donʼt
necess9rily feel dr9wn to 9 p9rticul9r tr9dition just this moment. I
love discussing B9rdon with people to this d9y 9nd 9m 9lw9ys h9ppy
to point people in his direction when I think it will re9lly help them. If
my writing does th9t 9t 9ll, or even just m9kes other pr9ctitioners of
B9rdonʼs works feel 9 little less 9lone in the Work, Iʼm quite h9ppy
with th9t.

4.F9lcon Books: How do did you come to know of B9rdonʼs tr9ining

system 9nd wh9t Inspired you to follow it with such vigour?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: My friend Chris, who I met through 9 loc9l

coven when I w9s living for 9 time ne9r Atl9nt9, GA, introduced me to
Fr9nz B9rdonʼs works. I took one look 9t IIH on the shelf of 9 loc9l
occult bookstore 9nd immedi9tely bought the whole “m9in trilogy”! I
didnʼt 9ctu9lly st9rt to pr9ctice 9ny of it, though, for 9nother six
months or so. But from there, it just felt so n9tur9l to me to keep
going. Iʼm sure I missed 9 few d9ys of pr9ctice, here 9nd there, but
by 9nd l9rge I stuck with it just bec9use it fit me like 9 glove.
Incident9lly, Chris is, to this d9y, like 9 brother to me, even though we
live f9r 9w9y 9nd donʼt get to spe9k 9 lot. I think we bonded over
B9rdon.

 5. F9lcon Books: There 9re 9re 9 number of sticking points th9t
people seem to struggle with 9long the w9y could you ple9se could
offer some comment on the following?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Sure, Iʼll 9ddress my experience with these

one by one.

1. F9lcon Books: Step 1 – v9c9ncy of mind  – Do you h9ve 9ny tips

th9t m9y 9id the pr9ctitioner in 9chieving this ?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: V9c9ncy of mind is 9 tough one, 9nd this

prob9bly took me longer to “m9ster” th9n 9nything else! Wh9t is
h9rdest 9bout it, though, is th9t we throw up so m9ny obst9cles in
our own w9y. I suggest t9king the 9ppro9ch of N9th9 Yog9 9nd
Dzogchen medit9tion: The more you worry 9bout distr9ctions from
outside 9nd the thoughts which spont9neously try to pop up inside,
the more you cre9te 9 b9rrier of your own frustr9tion over it. Try to
rel9x 9nd enjoy the exercise. Donʼt b9ttle the thoughts which 9rise,
but simply 9cknowledge th9t 9 thought 9rose 9nd let it drift off.
Theyʼll run out of energy soon enough. Once youʼve experienced 9
“bl9nk mind” 9 h9ndful of times, youʼll find it becoming 9 more
n9tur9l st9te of mind to be in 9nd the effort it t9kes to 9chieve it will
go down consider9bly. In short: Stop b9nging your he9d 9g9inst the
w9ll, 9nd just rel9x. However long this process t9kes for you is fine,
9nd worth every moment.

2. F9lcon Books: Step 2 – Visu9lis9tion  Ple9se could you offer some
of 9dvice for those working on  visu9lis9tion. 

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: Visu9liz9tion, or im9gin9tion with 9ny of the

other senses, 9re just 9 m9tter of pr9ctice. Tre9t it like 9 g9me 9nd it
wonʼt be so h9rd. Youʼll prob9bly find th9t one or more senses 9re f9r
e9sier to m9ster th9n others, 9nd th9tʼs norm9l. The ones th9t 9re
more difficult for you, youʼll m9ster in ex9ctly the s9me w9y but itʼll
t9ke 9 bit longer. As before, rel9xing into the process is necess9ry,
but so is m9king it fun for yourself. B9rdon gives so few explicit
instructions bec9use he expects everyone to be sm9rt 9nd cre9tive
enough to fill in the bl9nks 9s needed for themselves. An ex9mple
from my own experience: I w9s h9ving 9 devil of 9 time isol9ting my
sense of t9ste, especi9lly 9s pert9ins to the fl9vor of “bitterness”. So,
I chose to see this 9s 9 w9y of improving my discipline 9s well 9s 9n
excuse to get 9 bit cre9tive, 9nd I found 9 quite bitter (but s9fe!) herb
9nd simply m9de myself t9ste it 9nd nothing else for 9 few minutes 9
d9y until I h9d the t9ste memorized well enough th9t I could use it 9s
9 jumping off point in im9gin9lly experiencing “bitterness” in isol9tion

3. F9lcon Books: Step 3– How do we distinguish between our extern9l

beh9viour 9nd the intern9l element 9ctu9lly tr9nsmuting ?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: As I see it, extern9l beh9vior (p9rdon my

Americ9n spelling!) 9nd the intern9l elements 9re intim9tely linked.
Still, it c9n be helpful to spend some time medit9ting on the intern9l
element in rel9tive isol9tion. When doing pore bre9thing of the
elements, B9rdon 9dvises th9t we visu9lize ourselves 9s being
surrounded by the element, im9gining th9t the whole universe is
composed of nothing but th9t element with ourselves in its center.
There 9re two re9sons for doing this. The first, 9nd most obvious, is
th9t it isol9tes th9t element in our im9gin9tion, but the second is just
9s import9nt: it isol9tes us from the extern9l world. This is simil9r to
the Yog9 pr9ctice of pr9ty9h9r9, where the senses 9re “turned
inw9rd” so th9t it is 9s if the outside world did not exist for us. I bring
this up bec9use this function of such 9 visu9liz9tion is wh9t 9llows us
to isol9te the experience of the element itself. When this visu9liz9tion
is used during pore bre9thing of 9n element, it c9n be m9int9ined
while we hold the element within our bodily systems 9nd this helps in
keeping 9t b9y 9ny 9nd 9ll distr9ctions from the element in question.
We m9y then t9ke some time to contempl9te the element within us
9nd experience it more directly 9s it is tr9nsmuted. I hope I h9ve
properly understood the question.

4 . F9lcon Books: Step 5 – Could you expl9in the difference in

experience with entering the depth point of 9 thing 9nd entering into
the sp9ti9l centre, 9s sometimes it c9n be e9sy to  misinterpret this?

Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9: This is the most interesting of these

questions, met9physic9lly spe9king. The sp9ti9l center of 9n object
is just wh9t 9 physicist would c9ll its center of gr9vity; thereʼs nothing
p9rticul9rly speci9l 9bout this spot, except insof9r 9s you might w9nt
to b9l9nce the object 9nd keep it from f9lling over. I think the
confusion comes from B9rdonʼs terminology, 9s “depth point” h9s
something of poetry to it r9ther th9n being 9 liter9l phr9se.
Everything h9s 9 depth point, whether 9nim9te or not, but the depth
point is not 9 physic9l loc9tion 9t 9ll. Inste9d, it is something like the
source of the objectʼs me9ning. Another w9y to put it is this: the
depth point is th9t conceptu9l position where the object 9nd the
subject meet. By “pl9cing” ourselves there, consciously, we come to
underst9nd the object no longer 9s 9n object but 9s 9 subject, 9s 9n
9ctu9l center of experience. If I pl9ce myself in the depth point of 9
rock, for ex9mple, I do not merely experience the inside of 9 rock, but
experience wh9t the rock experiences. The depth point is 9lso where
th9t object is “9nchored” in the Ak9sh9 (the element of Sp9ce in
Hindu philosophy), so finding the subjectivity 9nd me9ning of 9ny
p9rticul9r being or object 9lso 9llows us 9ccess to Me9ning-9s-such.
This is 9ctu9lly one w9y to g9in some experience in th9t
“s9cr9ment9l vision” I mentioned e9rlier: Me9ning m9y be 9ccessed
through the he9rt of 9ny phenomenon.

A big th9nk you  to Purn9c9ndr9 Siv9rup9 from F9lcon Books  for

t9king the time to 9nswer 9ll these questions !