Helen Abadzi

India Club presentation

March 2009

When India Conquered Greece

 Today Greece and India seem
remote
 100 years ago, there were millions of
Greeks in Asia Minor (Turkey) and India
was Pakistan.
 The chapters of a very long
dialogue
 Ancient years – Travelers, a doctor,
Alexander
 Indogreek kingdoms
 Islamic conquests and influences
 Greeks in British India
 Hindi movies and songs in Greece
 Indian soldiers buried in Athens and
Thessaloniki
Τα ηλδνπξεπή
Which song is this?
Βηβιίν
Greece and Hindi cinema of 1950s
Hindi movies in Greece
 Newspaper search
 1954-1968 -111 were found
 Really popular for about 4 years
 1958-1962

 Many important Hindi movies of the period

 Many secondary and forgotten ones
Appeal to the poor of the
period 50-60
 Economy – social problems
 Emigration – songs of longing
 Fantastic scenes
 Selling dreams
 Women‟s need for marriage and dowry
 «beautiful sacrifices»
 Family relations – good and bad
 Often an unhappy end
Γεκνθηιή έξγα
The movies inspired Greek
melodramas
 Accidents, strange plots
 Many songs, but in buzuki eating
houses – singers are musicians telling a
story, not the protagonists
 Tragic titles „a life full of pain‟
Movies played extensively in
Thessaloniki, Greece
 Aan
 Ghar sansaar
 Mother India
 Awaara
 Sri 420
Πξεκηέξα – Mother India
Γηαθεκίζεηο εθεκεξίδωλ
Κηλεκαηνγξαθηθά δεπγάξηα
Indoprepi songs – the Greek copies
 1959-mid 1960s found 105 copies and
remakes
 26 „ζπλζέηεο‟
 Νίθνο Καδαληδίδεο
 Απόζηνινο Καιδάξαο (όζν αμίδεηο εζύ)
 Βνύια Πάιια
 Μπάκπεο Μπαθάιεο (θαξδηά κνπ θαεκέλε)
 Καη άιινη
Διιελεο ηξαγνπδηζηέο ηλδηθώλ
Almost all pop musicians sang
them
 Μαλώιεο Αγγειόπνπινο (Μαγθάια,
πηθξακέλν γξάκκα)
 Νίθνο Καδαληδίδεο (απηή ε λύρηα κέλεη)
 Καίηε Γθξέπ
 Βνύια Πάιια
 Σηξάηνο Γηνλπζίνπ
Γηζθάθηα
The Greek problems were
moved to the lyrics
 Indoprepi became “heavy” pop songs
 Lyrics almost never coincided
 Emigration
 Being an orphan
 Need for marriage, marriage against a
woman‟s will
 Class differences (Sujata!)
 Jealousy, evil people
 Breakup of relations
Buzuki shops
Quality
 Often modest quality, poor recordings
 Simplification of the Indian tunes
 Change of instruments and gender of
singer
 Often speeded up
 Multiple editions of the same song
Similarity with original Hindi
 57% very similar
 24% significant differences
 16% fractional (π.ρ. Aajao tarapt)
 5% only some recognizeable parts
Voula Palla

Βνύια Πάιια
•
1. ΢ΟΤ ΥΑΡΘΖΩ ΣΗΝ ΚΑΡΔΘΑ ΜΟΤ - NATWALA
JIYA 7. ΑΘΝΣΕ ΓΕΘΑ - DUKE BHARE DIN 2. ΢ΑΝ
ΣΟ ΜΘΚΡΟ ΠΑΘΔΘ - CHUNCAL NAHI 8. ΓΗ
ΠΟΣΘ΢ΜΕΝΗ ΜΕ ΘΔΡΩΣΑ - CHUNDARIYA KATARI
JAI 3. ΢ΗΜΕΡΑ ΠΑΝΣΡΕΤΟΜΑΘ - PEECE CHAR
AAJ PYARI 9. ΑΓΓΕΛΘΚΗ ΚΑΡΔΘΑ - NA MAIN
BHACWAN 4. ΥΡΩΜΑΣΑ ΑΓΑΠΗ΢ - HOLI RE
KANHAI 10. AΠΟΡΩ - NACARI 5. ΢ΚΛΗΡΗ ΕΘΝΑΘ
Η ΖΩΗ ΜΑ΢ - DUNIJA MEN HUM 11. ΢ΣΑΜΑΣΑ
ΠΑΛΘΚΑΡΘ - O CADIWARE CADI 6. ΠΟΤ ΠΑΣΕ - O
JANEWALA JAO 12. ΓΘΑΣΘ ΝΑ ΦΤΓΕΘ΢ ΓΘΕ ΜΟΤ -
O MERE LAI AAJA
Naushad Ali
The middle class was not
interested
 Ridicule
 Songs sounded Turkish
Scandal
 Tsitsanis against Kaldaras and Bakalis–
1967
 Derveniotis – we are making byzantine
music !
 1968 almost prohibited - end
Naushad Ali ζηε Βνκβάε
Cultural product from this book
Greece and India
27 centuries of interaction
Although the copiers did not
exactly make byzantine music...
..they were not exactly wrong
 Mediterranean a musical mix

 Extensive relations between Greece and

India over the centuries
 Often the similarities are heard with
church music
 The role of the Asia Minor refugees,
who had the tunes closer to them
Common roots and ancient
relations
 Common Indoeuropean roots of north India
 Certain deities π.ρ. Γίαο, Οπξαλόο, Ηωο,
Ηιηνο, Δξκήο, Ηθαηζηνο.
 Sanskrit – Greek – Second cousins
 Alexander contemporary historians mentioni
music, eg. Shiva (Bhairawa) –Bhairawi raag
 Some influence to Indians: Yavanipuri toDi
raaga
Some Ancient Greek historians
wrote about India
 (Γ. Βειηζζαξόπνπινο: Διιελεο θαη Ιλδνί)
 Οη επαθέο ράλνληαη ζηελ ηζηνξία
 Αξραηόηεξε κλεία: Σθύιαμ ν Καξπαλδεύο, γηαηξόο
ζηνλ Γαξείν Α‟ (521-486 πΧ)
 Ηξόδνηνο: Θαπκαζκόο
 Δθαηαίνο: ιηγόηεξν βάξβαξνη από άιινπο
 Αιιά θαη πνιιέο αλνεζίεο
 Γηα ηνπο Ιλδνύο νη Διιελεο:
 Sarvajana Yavanas
Alexandeer: The great
encounter
 327 BC, only 6 years
 Military tourism !!!
 Relationships did not go well
 Ο Chandragupta Maurya threw out the Greek
guards after Alexander‟s departure
 Seleukos Nikator of Hellenistic Syria attacked
taking Punjab in 305 BC
 Samrat Ashok – his mother possibly Greek
 Rock inscriptions with Brahmi appear in India
Indogreek Kingdoms
 Bactrian kingdom (Afghanistan) by Diodotos
Soter (256 BC)
 – 40 kings up to 50 BC (or AD?)
 Demetrios new kingdom in northwest India
Ιλδία.
 Menander (155-150 BC) became a buddhist
(Milinda panha)
 Conquest by Scythians (Bactrian kingdom
141-128 BC)
Indogreek Kings
 Mainly known from coins
 Engaged in civil wars
 Buddhism common among them
 Indogreeks gave Buddha the face of
Apollo
 Left many works of art in stone
(Gandhara = Kandahar)
 Forgotten
Ιλδνειιεληθά λνκίζκαηα
Ιλδνειιεληθά αγάικαηα
The unknown Hellenism
 After the Scythians conquered the
Indogreeks, they imitated them
 Like Rome imitated Greek art
Οξγαλα
Γηπιόο απιόο
Παξαδνζηαθά΄όξγαλα
Metamorphosis Church, Kolkata
Monument in Dhaka, Bangladesh
Historical cemetery in Kolkata
with old graves
 1776 +
 Poetic gravestones, ancient language
 Hard to find in Greece
Metamorophosis Church
entry door inscription
The Indian Cemetery of
Thessaloniki

1916-1920
Τν ηλδηθό λεθξνηαθείν ηεο
Θεζζαινλίθεο
 Σηξαηηώηεο ή αθόινπζνη ηωλ Αγγιωλ
 Πεξίπνπ 504 άηνκα ζακέλα (105),
απνηεθξωκέλα (220) ή κλεκνλεπόκελα
 Πέζαλαλ ην 1916-1920
 384 Ιλδνπηζηέο, 107 Μνπζνπικάλνη, 26 Sikhs, and 1-
3 Χξηζηηαλνί - ζακέλνη όινη καδί
 31 Gurkhas ηνπ Νεπάι
 83% άκαρνη ππεξέηεο θαη βνεζεηηθνί
 (Τν Ιλδηθό Νεθξνηαθείν ηεο Θεζζαινλίθεο – Θεζζαινληθέωλ
Πόιηο, Οθη. 2000)
Indian soldiers in Thessaloniki, world war I
(ζπιινγή Α. Παπαϊωάλλνπ)
The story continues
 What does the future bring?
 Thousands of Indians, Pakistanis,
Bangladeshis in Greece
 Closer relations with India due to
terrorist concerns?
 Many history chapters yet to be written.
Which songs do you recognize?

Listen to the Greek first

Write down what you think it is
Beware of gender changes in voice!
Thank you for your
participation