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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK


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4 :
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA :
5 :
v. : 19 Cr. 373 (PGG)
6 :
MICHAEL AVENATTI, :
7 :
Defendant. :
8 :
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11

12

13
Recorded Conversation
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15

16

17 Date: 21 March, 2019


Participants: Scott Wilson, Michael
18 Avenatti, Mark Geragos

19

20
(U/I) - UNINTELLIGIBLE
21 (PH) - PHONETIC SPELLING
(UF) – UNIDENTIFIABLE FEMALE
22 (UM) - UNIDENTIFIABLE MALE

23

24

25

1
1 [U/I street noise]

2 UF: I can buzz you in, if you guys need.

3 WILSON: Oh, thank you.

4 [Footsteps]

5 UF: (U/I) Are you guys headed to four?

6 WILSON: Four.

7 UF: Okay. [PAUSE] I’m Tina by the way.

8 WILSON: Hi-

9 UF: I work for Mark and– (U/I).

10 WILSON: Scott.

11 UF: Nice to meet you.

12 UM: (U/I) you guys (U/I) just bring ‘em up?

13 UF: I did-

14 UM: Okay going in there, we'll kick you out, sorry.

15 (U/I).

16 UM: No permanent damage- (U/I).

17 GERAGOS: Um- so she’s gonna be alright?

18 WILSON: She’s gonna be fine.

19 AVENATTI: That’s good.

20 WILSON: It’s one of these- pasta, pot of boiling water,

21 on the stove, kids underfoot, um- (U/I).

22 GERAGOS: (U/I).

23 WILSON: Right um, right on to her, it was awful.

24

25
2
1 AVENATTI: How long ago did it happen?

2 WILSON: About a week.

3 GERAGOS: Who wants what?

4 WILSON: (U/I) Oh, I’m gonna– Perrier, thank you (U/I),

5 thank you Mark.

6 (U/I): Perrier looks great, thanks.

7 GERAGOS: I do what I do, captain.

8 WILSON: They- they had these big- they look like

9 mousepads - so they’re silver bandage - or

10 they’re silver infused, or something-

11 AVENATTI: Really?

12 WILSON: They’re big - they’re like the thickness of a

13 mousepad, and they put it on, and you can’t

14 bathe for a week, because I guess the only

15 downside is you’re not supposed to get them

16 wet, and we were a little intimidated by what

17 would be underneath when it came off- but it

18 was really quite shocking how well this -

19 AVENATTI: (U/I)

20 WILSON: Worked, so today - was the - they come off, so

21 it’s - it was good news, and thank you for

22 accommodating schedules this morning-

23 AVENATTI: Of course.

3
1 WILSON: You’ve been in New York?

2 AVENATTI: [Nods]

3 WILSON: I didn’t know if Mark would fly back from the

4 tropical paradise he was describing when we uh

5 talked - talked on the phone yesterday.

6 AVENATTI: How much space do you guys have (U/I), how long

7 have you been over at Hudson Yards?

8 WILSON: Weeks.

9 AVENATTI: Yeah.

10 WILSON: A matter of weeks - so we’ve been at the same

11 intersection uh, 51st and Lexington for years,

12 which is very dull. We took space very early in

13 Hudson Yards, um, and we have three full floors

14 of attorneys, half a floor that is more

15 administrative staff, and I think we have some

16 expansion options down the road, so.

17 AVENATTI: Yeah -

18 WILSON: (U/I)

19 AVENATTI: That’s a great development, I think that’s the

20 place to be.

21 WILSON: It seems that way, we have some (U/I) -

22 AVENATTI: CNN’s moving over there, you know that (U/I)?

23 WILSON: Really?

4
1 AVENATTI: Yeah, they’re vacating - it’s the same

2 developer- (U/I).

3 WILSON: Time Warner yes it’s Related, it’s

4 Related, that’s right. We um, we’re doing

5 something novel and radical which is the uh,

6 partners have glass fronted offices that are

7 around the core so to speak. And then the

8 associates and counsel are at open plan seating.

9 Not quite like a trading floor, but more like

10 pods.

11 AVENATTI: Really?

12 WILSON: And then we have a profusion of very interesting

13 breakout spaces, so you can go cloister

14 yourself in a room that’s just a call booth, or

15 we have reading rooms, and you know, having

16 practiced in East Midtown for a number of years,

17 it’s a nice shot in the arm to be someplace new.

18 AVENATTI: Cool.

19 WILSON: But you’ll see on Monday-

20 AVENATTI: Yeah no I’m interested to check it out. It's an

21 interesting space.

22 WILSON: Where are you, are you in, are you in Newport

23 Beach?

5
1 AVENATTI: No, I’m in West L.A., Century City.

2 WILSON: Oh, for some reason I thought you were in, you

3 were in the O.C.

4 AVENATTI: Um, I was for a while and then (U/I) in West

5 L.A., Just more views.

6 WILSON: I see we get casual Mark today.

7 GERAGOS: Very. You should’ve seen me yesterday, I was very

8 - I was decked out - I was also in kind of a blue

9 look.

10 AVENATTI: That’s my color.

11 GERAGOS: Blue’s your color?

12 AVENATTI: Um-

13 WILSON: You came back from Miami for me? That is, this

14 time of year, that’s a true-

15 GERAGOS: I was thinking -

16 WILSON: That’s a true courtesy.

17 GERAGOS: that this morning as I had the umbrella and I was

18 walking to Equinox - I can’t believe I came back

19 for him.

20 WILSON: [LAUGHS]

21 GERAGOS: I left Miami, which was gorgeous.

22 WILSON: Oh gosh, where do you stay?

23 GERAGOS: This place called the EAST, which I liked, at the

6
1 city center (U/I).

2 AVENATTI: They did a great job, heard about it. It’s right

3 there.

4 GERAGOS: Yeah! Yeah!

5 AVENATTI: Usually I stay at the SLS Lux.

6 GERAGOS: Right. Which is right across.

7 AVENATTI: (U/I).

8 GERAGOS: (U/I) but that city center (U/I).

9 AVENATTI: (U/I).

10 GERAGOS: I got a client who’s got a retail presence there

11 as well, so I looked at her store and I was

12 telling her the same thing I can do(U/I)-

13 AVENATTI: You know Casa Tua, it's the restaurant on the

14 beach-

15 GERAGOS: Yeah!

16 AVENATTI: They just built that uh, like Little Italy market

17 in that city center, it’s fabulous.

18 GERAGOS: (U/I).

19 AVENATTI: (U/I) that place is great-

20 GERAGOS: Spectacular.

21 AVENATTI: They’ve done a great job with that down town I

22 mean-

23 GERAGOS: I know!

7
1 AVENATTI: (U/I) downtown Miami has exploded-

2 GERAGOS: I know. I mean it’s just, it’s unbelievable -

3 WILSON: I had dinner at the uh, in the Hudson Yards mall

4 last night - I was shocked at how busy it was,

5 it’s been open for a week.

6 GERAGOS: What’s it called?

7 WILSON: Just The Shops.

8 GERAGOS: The shops (U/I)?

9 WILSON: Yeah they call it the shops. Busy, really, lot of

10 foot traffic-

11 AVENATTI: I heard they had seventeen thousand people for

12 the grand opening.

13 WILSON: Well.

14 GERAGOS: How many feet did you guys take?

15 WILSON: I was just telling Michael, I’m not good with

16 footage but we have three full floors of 55, half

17 of a fourth floor on which we have administrative

18 offices um, and I think we have options to

19 expand-

20 GERAGOS: Wow.

21 WILSON: You know the five year, the ten year plan so

22 (U/I)

23 GERAGOS: How many lawyers do you have in New York?

8
1 WILSON: About eighty, I think?

2 GERAGOS: Eighty?

3 WILSON: Bout eighty, ninety, something like that - it

4 fluctuates.

5 GERAGOS: You know, Quinn, John, expanded QE all on the

6 back of the New York office. (U/I) I mean

7 obviously they started as an LA firm, but all the

8 growth was New York and then Silicon Valley.

9 WILSON: We’re growing in California, we’re definitely

10 growing in California, and then we um, we uh-

11 GERAGOS: You took what, 20 lawyers out of Caldwell?

12 WILSON: We took the whole firm, a few people maybe didn’t

13 come, but it was - essentially the whole firm

14 merged with our firm. Um, and then there’ve been

15 some hires additional since then so -

16 GERAGOS: So who your place now, who’s the managing

17 partner?

18 WILSON: We have a management committee.

19 GERAGOS: You do?

20 WILSON: We switched from the main partners to a

21 management committee of four folks- David and

22 Jonathan are still managing partners um, Don is

23 retired managing partner, uh. It’s a management

9
1 committee (U/I) David and Jonathan, so -

2 AVENATTI: Any uh-

3 WILSON: Changing up, changing of the guard.

4 AVENATTI: Any update since we spoke yesterday evening?

5 WILSON: No. Just that the client knows that I’m here to

6 receive - you know, the demand.

7 AVENATTI: Okay. So um, we’ll start with the easiest part.

8 This is a draft-

9 WILSON: Okay.

10 AVENATTI: General release and settlement agreement.

11 WILSON: Okay.

12 AVENATTI: You can take that with you.

13 WILSON: Okay.

14 AVENATTI: Let us know if you have changes, it’s pretty

15 straight forward.

16 WILSON: Okay.

17 AVENATTI: If you need additional release language, or

18 confidentiality language, language relating to

19 uh, other terms - no problem, but we’re not going

20 to negotiate the amount or the date.

21 WILSON: Date of?

22 AVENATTI: Payment.

23 WILSON: Payment. Okay.

10
1 AVENATTI: So–

2 WILSON: But, but JAMS, things like that- I can have-

3 AVENATTI: Yeah-

4 WILSON: - I can have opinions on?

5 AVENATTI: What’s that?

6 WILSON: I can have opinions on-

7 AVENATTI: If you wanna make it JAMS in New York, you know,

8 fine. I, I don’t think it serves anybody to pick

9 a non-arbitration option.

10 WILSON: Okay.

11 AVENATTI: And again, if we’re arguing over this agreement,

12 ultimately we got much bigger problems, then-

13 WILSON: (U/I) Look, I don’t think that that the um, one

14 point five million dollars to settle the civil

15 claims will be the sticking point. I think the

16 sticking point-

17 AVENATTI: No.

18 WILSON: Will be-

19 AVENATTI: That’s why I said we’ll start with the easy part-

20 GERAGOS: We, we, we, said that, we thought that would be

21 easiest.

22 AVENATTI: But I wanted to give you something at least as a

23 starting place-

11
1 WILSON: Yep.

2 AVENATTI: -And I think that this is probably, you’ll see

3 the release language could not be more broad. If

4 you wanted to add other specified release

5 parties, that’s fine too-

6 WILSON: Yep.

7 AVENATTI: By name, subsidiaries-

8 WILSON: Right.

9 AVENATTI: Nike Elite Youth Basketball, or something like

10 that, no problem.

11 AVENATTI: But, I figured that it should be, uh we should at

12 least have a starting place.

13 WILSON: Okay, thank you.

14 AVENATTI: So, and I don’t know if Nike USA Inc. is the

15 right entity, or if you want-

16 WILSON: It’s probably Nike Inc.

17 AVENATTI: That’s what I thought but-

18 WILSON: Yep, okay okay.

19 AVENATTI: Whatever you, whatever you wanna comment on or

20 you wanna get back to me on or you wanna talk

21 about- but I mean, that should be pretty straight

22 forward.

23 WILSON: Okay, understood.

12
1 AVENATTI: Um, so here’s the ask on the uh internal

2 investigation. Uh first of all, we want to report

3 directly to uh the gentleman we met with uh, with

4 you-

5 WILSON: Rob.

6 AVENATTI: Rob.

7 WILSON: Okay.

8 AVENATTI: Or, the general counsel, or above.

9 WILSON: Sure, okay.

10 AVENATTI: Okay? Hopefully that’s not gonna be uh,

11 controversial. Um, 2, our retention uh shall

12 remain confidential fully, entirely confidential

13 and will only be disclosed on a need to know

14 basis by the company, with the understanding that

15 obviously over the course of us conducting our

16 internal investigation we’re gonna have to

17 disclose that we’re working for Nike.

18 WILSON: Okay.

19 AVENATTI: But we are not going to be issuing any press

20 releases or responding to any press inquiries- or

21 leaking anything to the press, or anything of

22 that nature whatsoever.

23 WILSON: Okay.

13
1 AVENATTI: None of that happens unless we're directed to do

2 so by Nike.

3 WILSON: Okay.

4 AVENATTI: Because Nike’s our client.

5 WILSON: 'Kay.

6 AVENATTI: 'Kay? Again, I don’t think that’s controversial.

7 Um, 12 million dollar retainer upon signing

8 Evergreen. Um, that’s gonna be deemed earned when

9 paid, we’ll cap it at 25 million dollars, minimum

10 of 15 million dollars, unless the scope changes.

11 WILSON: Kay. Changes from what?

12 AVENATTI: Changes from the original scope that we agreed

13 to, which I mean I think, we all understand what

14 (U/I).

15 WILSON: Okay.

16 AVENATTI: Which are payments made to players in order to

17 route them to various colleges, or shoe

18 contracts, prior to them being eligible to

19 receive any such payments.

20 WILSON: Okay.

21 AVENATTI: Um, the blended hourly rate of 950 an hour for

22 attorneys, 450 hour, uh 450 dollars an hour for

23 paralegal time etc. plus out of pocket expenses.

14
1 WILSON: Okay. I have a few questions but I wanna hear you

2 out, anything, anything else?

3 AVENATTI: (U/I)

4 WILSON: So what’s the additional documentation that you

5 uh, anticipate? Beyond, this settlement

6 agreement is just what it is, as to Mr.

7 Franklin’s civil claims.

8 AVENATTI: A confidential retainer agreement-

9 WILSON: Okay, with who would be the counterparty- would

10 it be-

11 AVENATTI: Uh, we have to figure that out.

12 WILSON: What’s- would it be your firm, would it be Mark’s

13 firm?

14 AVENATTI: It’s gonna be either my firm, or Mark’s firm, or

15 a new entity that we then form or we have to

16 figure something out.

17 WILSON: Okay, but one (U/I)

18 GERAGOS: Correct it would just be one entity.

19 AVENATTI: There’s only gonna be one entity, you’re not

20 gonna have- cause other- there’s no need for that

21 - it’s messy.

22 WILSON: Okay. Um, who would be doing the work?

23 AVENATTI: Mark, me, our staffs.

15
1 WILSON: Okay. Um-

2 GERAGOS: Uh, I anticipate that there would be a contract

3 for-subcontract for a PIs and things of that

4 nature-

5 WILSON: Okay.

6 GERAGOS: You need people on the ground to do interviews

7 and things of that nature along with as

8 witnesses.

9 WILSON: To be chosen, when?

10 AVENATTI: What do you mean? We would adequately staff the

11 engagement (U/I). Whether it be through

12 attorneys, or PI’s, or others. There’s not a

13 subcontract- we will retain individuals to

14 conduct the investigation- beyond what we already

15 have, as needed.

16 WILSON: Understand. Um and Michael, what you just said

17 may have superseded what you mentioned last time,

18 but you said something about a multiplier - I

19 wanted to understand what you meant by that.

20 GERAGOS: Oh, that, was your penalty clause favored

21 nations.

22 AVENATTI: We’re we basically-

23 WILSON: We’re beyond that-

16
1 AVENATTI: Yeah.

2 WILSON: Okay.

3 AVENATTI: Provided these terms are acceptable, if these

4 terms aren’t acceptable then we’re (U/I) gonna go

5 back.

6 WILSON: Um, okay.

7 GERAGOS: So what it does is, it ensures, I mean from

8 Nike’s standpoint look, I was explaining to, to

9 Michael beforehand, I’ve had it does not surprise

10 me this latest admissions scandal at USC. Why

11 doesn’t that surprise me? Three times I’ve been

12 down the road with USC in the last 10 years for

13 scandals. Every time USC hires the same law

14 firm, who will remain nameless, who does a quote

15 un quote, investigation, that quote un quote

16 investigation, is nothing but a white wash, and

17 doesn’t get to the bottom of what the root

18 systemic problems are- so this, kind of ensures

19 that we’ll get to the bottom of it, it’s not

20 gonna happen again, so-

21 AVENATTI: And ultimately it’s gonna be up to the client as

22 to whether they want to self-disclose, or whether

23 they wanna do it or anything else, just like any

17
1 other client.

2 GERAGOS: And we’ll, and we’ll get to the bottom-

3 WILSON: Okay.

4 GERAGOS: Of whether

5 AVENATTI: (U/I) those aren’t our decisions to make- our

6 decisions are to investigate this, report back to

7 Nike, and then Nike makes a decision on what they

8 wanna do.

9 GERAGOS: Right.

10 AVENATTI: Presumably in consultation with you and others.

11 WILSON: So, um, I think I know the answer to this, so

12 please lemme, lemme-

13 AVENATTI: Okay, no!

14 [ALL LAUGH]

15 WILSON: Let me include that preface-as I said before I

16 don’t think that the um settlement of Mr.

17 Franklin’s civil claims for 1.5 million dollars

18 is going to be the stumbling block here. Is there

19 a way to avoid your press conference without

20 hiring you and Mark to do an internal

21 investigation?

22 AVENATTI: I’m not gonna answer that question.

23 [WILSON SIGHS]

18
1 WILSON: Uh, okay.

2 GERAGOS: It’s kind of a strange question…

3 WILSON: Can we settle this under, could we do this all

4 under the civil settlement agreement? That’s

5 what I’m asking. Can we, even though, if the-

6 GERAGOS: Without doing any investigation?

7 WILSON: If the money went higher, could we do it all

8 under the civil settlement agreement?

9 AVENATTI: Well I mean perhaps, but why would why would you

10 wanna do that… I think-

11 WILSON: So tell me, what-

12 AVENATTI: I’m putting- so I’m gonna put my Nike hat on for

13 a minute. Okay. Just for the sake of argument,

14 I’m gonna put my Nike hat on.

15 WILSON: It’s got a swoosh and everything.

16 GERAGOS: Right, it has the little-

17 WILSON: Go on.

18 GERAGOS: Wait, I put on my Nike hat, I know why that

19 question’s being asked? Could I be so bold? You

20 don’t have to answer this question. They wanna

21 get rid of this in one fell swoop or swoosh, and

22 not have it hanging over their head, so to speak.

23 AVENATTI: Well they’re gonna have to do an internal

19
1 investigation anyway, but lemme just say this,

2 okay? I don’t think that it makes any sense for

3 Nike to be paying, um, an exorbitant sum of money

4 to Mr. Franklin, in light of his role in this.

5 WILSON: Okay.

6 AVENATTI: I mean, imagine that.

7 WILSON: What-here’s what I’m struggling with. As I’ve

8 said to you, I have, I have clients to convince,

9 and normally when we are confronted with the

10 threat of civil claims, it is resolved with- the

11 suit is filed or there’s a civil settlement. And

12 what do I tell the non-business people at the top

13 of the heap, why is it that we have to both um,

14 do a civil settlement, and hire plaintiff’s

15 counsel and his colleague or associate or friend,

16 to do legal work, for the company-

17 GERAGOS: It’s not so much legal work as-

18 WILSON: And that’s not something we’ve ever seen before.

19 GERAGOS: Right, but only because there is (U/I)-

20 AVENATTI: I have to say, I um, with claims this explosive

21 I’ve never sat down with the defendant before, I

22 usually just go directly to the New York Times

23 and have a press conference-

20
1 WILSON: But I-I’m saying, help me. I need- I’ll think of

2 my own ideas, but what is my talking point. What

3 is the answer to my, how do I-

4 GERAGOS: The answer to that is, that the uh, I think-

5 AVENATTI: Can you give us one minute?

6 GERAGOS: Yeah.

7 WILSON: Yeah, sure.

8 (U/I): You guys want anything else to drink?

9 WILSON: No, I’m good with my Perrier.

10 [AVENATTI AND GERAGOS EXIT]

11 AVENATTI: Thanks. Could I see that for a minute? I wanna

12 make sure (U/I).

13 WILSON: Sure.

14 AVENATTI: Um, so help me better understand, is there an

15 appetite to just be done? Is that the thought?

16 WILSON: Yeah, I mean I look. We’ve known each other for

17 what, 2 days? I appreciate you saying there will

18 be no press conferences during the course of your

19 internal investigation, but, you know you’d be up

20 all up in the business of the company for, for

21 years - ah look lemme, lemme, lemme be more

22 concrete. I have not done a 25 million dollar

23 internal investigation for Nike. I have not- we

21
1 have not done one for Nike that breaks 10 million

2 dollars. We’ve done internal investigations for

3 them that are a lot less than that. I am

4 struggling with how to sell, to, my client,

5 something that is outside of the civil

6 settlement, that is instead a separate um,

7 separate hiring of attorneys they don’t know, to

8 conduct an internal investigation, which is a

9 very sensitive thing.

10 GERAGOS: Well the, there are

11 WILSON: And I’m not sure, your press conf- sorry -

12 GERAGOS: (U/I)- First of all they do know me. Second of

13 all, I dealt with them in sensitive situations,

14 uh, which is why I picked up the phone and called

15 - in situations where they did not want a certain

16 story to be told, um, at the same time, and

17 that’s why I was givin’ the USC example, at the

18 same time there is something to be said for the

19 fact that one of the reasons we’re on the

20 plaintiffs’ side, besides cashing checks is, we

21 like to also affect change, just like Nike does,

22 and if there’s something that’s goin’ on there

23 and it’s more widespread, uh, than we even

22
1 suspect, it would be a good idea I think to root

2 it out and fix it, don’t you think? I mean, just

3 conceptually? And so, the idea of, and, by the

4 way-

5 AVENATTI: Look I know for a fact that these aren’t the only

6 payments and I know for a fact that the payments

7 didn’t only go through California Supreme.

8 WILSON: I’ve never gotten a 12 Million dollar retainer

9 from this client Michael.

10 GERAGOS: Yeah, but your, but your firm –

11 AVENATTI: (U/I)

12 GERAGOS: (U/I)I know, I know (U/I)-

13 AVENATTI: Have you ever held the balls of the client in

14 your hand where you can take 5, 6 billion

15 dollars in market cap off of ‘em? This is gonna

16 be a major fucking scandal, you said yourself,

17 that you’re surprised Adidas wasn’t indicted –

18 I'm going tell ya, if we don’t - if we don’t

19 figure this out, from moment one, I’m gonna be

20 asking, why Nike hasn’t been indicted.

21 AVENATTI: I’m gonna break, I’m gonna bring the power of my

22 platform to bear - to expose what the fuck is

23 goin’ on here - appropriately. If we can’t reach

23
1 a settlement in the next week. And that’s,

2 there’s nothing wrong with that. I mean Nike has

3 their platform, I have my platform.

4 WILSON: Okay.

5 AVENATTI: So, so so look- I mean, it doesn’t, ya know. Is

6 it a lot of money? Sure. Is it a lot of money in

7 the grand scheme of things? No.

8 WILSON: I’ve seen some press conferences in my day, I’ve

9 seen some of your press conferences, I’m not sure

10 I’ve seen a 25 million dollar press conference.

11 AVENATTI: Okay, let me just explain something to you. This

12 is not gonna be a single press conference, okay?

13 WILSON: Are they a million a piece?

14 AVENATTI: No, no this is gonna be, no this is gonna be a

15 scandal. This is gonna be the biggest scandal in

16 sports, in a long time. That’s what this is gonna

17 be. This is gonna be…

18 WILSON: Okay. Is there room to negotiate on the specific

19 millions we’re talking about?

20 AVENATTI: On what?

21 WILSON: On the dollar figures that you put on category 2.

22 AVENATTI: So, look. If you- look, I’ll say this. If, um,

23 if your client wants to have one confidential

24
1 settlement agreement - and we’re done, they can

2 buy that for 22 and a half million dollars. And

3 we’re done.

4 WILSON: That’s helpful.

5 AVENATTI: Fully confidential, we can leave it to Nike and

6 and its other lawyers to figure out what to do

7 with this and handle it appropriately- and full

8 confidentiality, we ride off into the sunset, if

9 you need assistance from us as it relates to Mr.

10 Franklin, uh, we’d be happy to provide that,

11 obviously we’re not going to do anything illegal

12 - or he’s not gonna do anything illegal -

13 WILSON: Okay.

14 AVENATTI: And, we can be done,

15 WILSON: Okay.

16 AVENATTI: And then they can hire Boies or whoever else they

17 wanna hire, to do whatever they wanna do, and you

18 guys can figure out what you wanna do.

19 WILSON: Okay.

20 AVENATTI: If that, if that is a more palatable option -

21 right? Now, I mean I think there’s positives and

22 negatives to that, but I’m not calling the shots

23 at Nike.

25
1 WILSON: Okay -

2 AVENATTI: But lemme, lemme, I just wanna share with you

3 what’s gonna happen, if we don’t reach a

4 resolution-

5 WILSON: I’m sure I’m gonna enjoy hearing this.

6 AVENATTI: No, this is not me pounding my chest, or any of

7 that shit. I’m just gonna, this is, I’m just

8 gonna have a very real discussion with you, that

9 this is what happens every time, okay? As soon as

10 this becomes public, I’m gonna receive calls from

11 all over the country, from parents, and coaches,

12 and friends, and all kinds of people, because

13 this is always what happens - and they’re all

14 going to say, “I’ve got an email, or text message

15 or – now. 90% of that is gonna be bullshit.

16 Cause it’s always bullshit 90% of the time.

17 Always. Whether it’s R. Kelly, or Trump, or the

18 list goes on and on. But 10% of it is actually

19 going to be true. And then what’s gonna happen

20 is, this will snowball. And then it will be 5

21 players, and then it will be 9, and then it will

22 be 15, and then it will be 25, and it's gonna

23 snowball - and every time we get more

26
1 information, that’s gonna be The Washington Post,

2 The New York Times, ESPN, a press conference –

3 and the company will die, not die, but they’re

4 going to incur, cut after cut after cut after

5 cut, and that’s what’s gonna happen. As soon as

6 this thing becomes public. So, it is in the

7 company’s best interest to avoid this becoming

8 public, and to deal with this in an organized

9 legal manner where the company self-reports in

10 some way, shape or form. They’re gonna have to

11 self-report, in my view. Now again, that’s not

12 ultimately up to me. And we haven’t even, you

13 know we touched on it briefly - I don’t know what

14 they did relating to, responding to that

15 subpoena, I don’t know what the scope of that

16 subpoena was. But, I mean, that - that could be a

17 major fucking problem.

18 WILSON: Okay. So, we have your demand. I thank you for

19 spelling it out. That gives us something to, to

20 um-

21 AVENATTI: I mean is there an appetite to just be done? Or

22 I’m just tryna-

23 WILSON: There’s an appetite to just be done.

27
1 GERAGOS: [LAUGHTER]

2 WILSON: But I-I understand- the two scenarios. There’s

3 the 1.5, plus the internal investigation and

4 the parameters you described, or 22 and the-

5 AVENATTI: And a half.

6 GERAGOS: [LAUGHTER]

7 WILSON: It’s gone up -

8 AVENATTI: No it's 22 and a half. It was always 22 and a

9 half, there’s something magical about that

10 number.

11 WILSON: 22 and a half Michael, alright okay, um lemme

12 get working. When can we reconvene? Monday

13 morning, Monday afternoon?

14 GERAGOS: Monday, uh Monday at noon-

15 AVENATTI: 11?

16 GERAGOS: I’m just if there’s a… if I’ve gotta be in

17 court at 9, I’ll be back up here - could we

18 just do noon, are you okay with that?

19 AVENATTI: Yeah that’s fine.

20 GERAGOS: Are you good with that? Yeah? Monday at noon?

21 AVENATTI: So look, this is not-

22 WILSON: Now we said my offices-

23 AVENATTI: Listen that’s right, listen this is not an

28
1 indicator, this is not a shot at you and the

2 situation with your wife, which I fully

3 understand, but lemme just explain something, so

4 that there are no misunderstandings.

5 WILSON: Alright.

6 AVENATTI: If this is not papered on Monday, we’re done.

7 WILSON: Okay.

8 AVENATTI: I don’t wanna hear about somebody on a bike trip,

9 I don’t wanna hear that somebody has, somebody’s

10 grandmother passed away or something, I don't-

11 look - the dog ate my homework, I don’t wanna

12 hear, none of it is gonna go anywhere unless

13 somebody was killed in a plane crash. It’s going

14 to go zero, no place with me. So I have against

15 my better judgment, um, I have parked this thing

16 to try to give peace a chance-

17 WILSON: [LAUGHTER]

18 AVENATTI: Okay?

19 WILSON: Yeah.

20 AVENATTI: Recognizing the difficulties that you guys have

21 had. Um and by the way, I’ve assumed that for the

22 sake of our discussion here today, that all of

23 the parameters for 408, confidentiality and

29
1 everything from before, carried over.

2 WILSON: We can stick with 408.

3 AVENATTI: Right, strictly confidential-

4 WILSON: 408.

5 AVENATTI: What’s the difference between 408 and strictly

6 confidential?

7 WILSON: What do you mean by strictly confidential?

8 AVENATTI: Well, see that causes me a little concern. What

9 is the issue relating to the difference between

10 strictly confidential and 408?

11 WILSON: Michael, I don’t want you to have a press

12 conference. I have to be able to talk to the CEO,

13 General Counsel-

14 AVENATTI: Oh- of course you do.

15 WILSON: Potentially disclosure counsel, you know uh-

16 AVENATTI: Well, there’s no disclosure of this meeting to

17 disclosure counsel.

18 WILSON: I mean SEC disclosure counsel.

19 AVENATTI: (U/I)

20 WILSON: No, you’re threatening a giant press conference,

21 I- if something happens and there’s an effect on

22 the stock price, you don’t think that I would

23 need to- uh again, all under the company’s

30
1 privilege, I…

2 GERAGOS: Correct, if it’s broad enough to come under a

3 mediation, a 408 in confidentiality.

4 WILSON: (U/I), this meeting is under- I’ve assumed all

5 our conversations since we sat down, were 408,

6 and believe you, me, I intend to keep this

7 confidential.

8 AVENATTI: Ok. Well, do you think that if I had a press

9 conference I could recount what happened in this

10 meeting?

11 WILSON: [LAUGHTER] Do I think you will or you won’t-

12 AVENATTI: No, no, I mean- is it your understanding that the

13 parties have the ability to do that? ‘Cause that

14 is not my understanding, but if we’d like to have

15 a different understanding we can reach it.

16 WILSON: Look I’ll be totally candid. If you have a press

17 conference, I’ll be watching very closely for

18 what you say, and I reserve my right to take the

19 position that you’ve waived, because you’ve said

20 things, that I think violate the confidentiality

21 of this discussion- if you go in and say Nike was

22 willing to, you know, pay whatever, which I would

23 think would violate our agreement, then-

31
1 AVENATTI: I would never say that.

2 WILSON: I don’t know what you’re gonna do Michael-

3 AVENATTI: (U/I)

4 WILSON: We’ve known each other - we’ve known each other

5 for two days-

6 AVENATTI: I understand that, but I would-

7 WILSON: You might say that in order to make it seem very

8 real, to make it seem very big-

9 AVENATTI: No, I would, I would just – just so you know, it

10 would not be my intention to do that-

11 WILSON: Okay-

12 AVENATTI: That’s not, that would be a violation of, of the

13 spirit of what we’re trying to do here…

14 regardless even if we're not able to reach a

15 deal, that’s not, that, that is not my intention-

16 WILSON: Okay that is not my intention either.

17 AVENATTI: So, it’s not my intention to disclose, that we

18 met, that- what we talked about- that I mean

19 we've had a very candid talk-

20 WILSON: Nor is it mine.

21 AVENATTI: Okay, alright, so then we’re square on that-

22 WILSON: Yeah.

23 AVENATTI: I mean look, if we-

32
1 WILSON: We’re on the same page.

2 AVENATTI: If we, if we are not able to resolve this as far

3 as I’m concerned, we go status quo ante to before

4 we sat down-

5 WILSON: Yes. How um, the client will ask me this, you can

6 answer, you can not answer. If we’re not able to

7 resolve it on Monday morning how quickly will you

8 go to the press?

9 AVENATTI: I’m not gonna answer that question.

10 WILSON: You know I gotta ask those things. Um okay. I

11 will come with authority on Monday.

12 AVENATTI: Okay.

13 WILSON: I’ve got your ask. Thank you for the courtesy,

14 personally and professionally.

15 GERAGOS: Is your wife okay?

16 WILSON: Yeah, she’s good.

17 GERAGOS: Okay. How long have you been married-

18 WILSON: Amazing medicine, it’s bad that it takes me a

19 minute to figure the answer to that question out,

20 isn’t it? Since 2007.

21 GERAGOS: Wow okay. What’s the longest you’ve ever been

22 married?

23 AVENATTI: 13 years.

33
1 GERAGOS: 13?!

2 AVENATTI: Yeah!

3 WILSON: I’m trying to-

4 AVENATTI: Fuck you!

5 ALL: [Laughter]

6 WILSON: May I, may I have my draft settlement agreement

7 back?

8 AVENATTI: I’m gonna hold onto this, in light of the uh,

9 discussion about the, changes (U/I)-

10 WILSON: Fair enough (U/I)

11 (U/I): (U/I)

12 AVENATTI: But lemme just say this. If there’s something

13 (U/I) if you wanna bring your own version, or if

14 there is language - specific release language

15 that you want-

16 WILSON: Well as Mark for example, as Mark will know from

17 his dealings with the company, this may be the

18 least important thing we discuss, but Oregon law

19 is virtually all they’ll ever put in any of their

20 contracts.

21 AVENATTI: Okay.

22 WILSON: So, things like that.

23 AVENATTI: (U/I)

34
1 WILSON: I believe, I believe Mr. Franklin’s contract-

2 around or rather Cal Supreme’s contract, is in

3 fact Oregon law.

4 AVENATTI: That’s fine (U/I).

5 WILSON: So, there may be-

6 AVENATTI: I’m not-

7 WILSON: Things like that-

8 AVENATTI: (U/I), that’s fine.

9 WILSON: And, I didn’t see an exception in the confi for,

10 you know, a uh accountants, audit committee.

11 AVENATTI: No, it’s there-

12 WILSON: Oh, okay then I just didn’t(U/I)-

13 GERAGOS: The disclosure?

14 WILSON: Yeah, the company will need to- if the company

15 makes multi- million dollar payments - the

16 auditors will need to be able to-

17 AVENATTI: You know what? We uh- I’ll tell you what, I’ll

18 tell you what. So you have something to take

19 with you?

20 WILSON: Yeah.

21 AVENATTI: I will, I will make a revision to this.

22 WILSON: Okay.

23 AVENATTI: And then we’ll print you 2 copies- we’ll print

35
1 you a copy (U/I)-

2 WILSON: Okay (U/I).

3 AVENATTI: (U/I).

4 GERAGOS: (U/I).

5 ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF MEMBER: Mark said you needed something

6 printed? You can put it on there if you want when

7 you are done.

8 AVENATTI: (U/I). How long have you been at Boies?

9 HOMES: Uh, a year and a half.

10 AVENATTI: Did you clerk before that or were you at another

11 company?

12 HOMES: I was straight through law school.

13 AVENATTI: Where’d you go?

14 HOMES: NYU.

15 AVENATTI: Good school. Did you summer at Boies?

16 HOMES: I did.

17 WILSON: See we aren’t so bad. We got him back.

18 AVENATTI: It’s a good place to be.

19 HOMES: It is a good place.

20 WILSON: Michael, do you have a place here in the city? Or

21 you staying in a hotel?

22 AVENATTI: Um (U/I), I have a place off 25th–

23 WILSON: Oh cool.

36
1 AVENATTI: Yeah.

2 WILSON: How many lawyers do you have in Century City?

3 AVENATTI: Um, nine, and then we have four out here.

4 WILSON: Oh.

5 AVENATTI: Where’s your LA office?

6 WILSON: Oh Gosh. Um-

7 AVENATTI: Are you out that much?

8 WILSON: I am, but I’m bad with uh, its downtown, it’s uh,

9 there’s a brand new- it’s an Intercontinental?

10 AVENATTI: Yeah.

11 WILSON: It’s really high-

12 AVENATTI: Yeah.

13 WILSON: It has like a sky lobby.

14 AVENATTI: Is it in that building?

15 WILSON: No, it is the immediately adjacent tower-

16 AVENATTI: 'Cause that’s where right across the street from

17 Mark’s place.

18 WILSON: Oh really?

19 AVENATTI: Yeah.

20 WILSON: (U/I) so yeah, oh! (U/I)-

21 AVENATTI: That’s literally (U/I) Mark (U/I)-

22 WILSON: Mark might be in the same building as Caldwell

23 Leslie-

37
1 AVENATTI: No, he owns the building.

2 WILSON: Ha! (U/I), but it’s a high rise, whatever it is.

3 We also have a beachhead in Santa Monica- which

4 we had that for a long time, but it’s always only

5 like a few lawyers.

6 AVENATTI: Is there anything you don’t (U/I)?

7 WILSON: Anything what?

8 AVENATTI/WILSON: [LAUGHTER]

9 WILSON: Beachhead in Santa Monica. We um- I was um, I’ve

10 done some litigation in California, and the thing

11 that I um find unnerving about it, I'll state is

12 the practice of tentatives. Absolutely- maybe

13 just when you’re an East Coast lawyer and you fly

14 out for an oral argument, and you land, and then

15 you get your inbox with the judge’s ruling, and

16 then you have two options: you go-

17 AVENATTI: You don’t like it?

18 WILSON: Right. You go to tell them why they’re wrong,

19 like you’re only showing up as far as I can tell-

20 AVENATTI: Right-

21 WILSON: Tell them they made a mistake, or they’re just

22 wrong, or you get back on the plane east. That

23 was an unnerving feature, of California state

38
1 practice. The other thing I found funny- I was

2 litigating in Santa Ana Superior Court, in Orange

3 County, and opposing counsel was from LA. And one

4 always worries about, I’m not from California, uh

5 you know you always worry-

6 AVENATTI: That might as well be two different states my

7 friend.

8 WILSON: That’s what I learned! I don’t think that the

9 big city LA lawyer was is-

10 AVENATTI: Well it’s always- I mean Orange County has always

11 kind of been the Wild Wild West to a certain

12 degree, I mean, and its- I mean politically it’s

13 the- a dichotomy between Orange County and LA.

14 WILSON: So I felt, I felt very (U/I)-

15 ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF MEMBER: there was nothing on there (U/I)-

16 AVENATTI: Did it save?

17 GERAGOS: Did you print it?

18 ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF MEMBER: it didn’t go on there

19 GERAGOS: Do you wanna just do it from here? (U/I).

20 UF: Yeah just email it (U/I).

21 WILSON: What I like best about L.A. are all the

22 restaurants. I'm a Jonathan Gold devotee,

23 Guelaguetza, Oaxacan. I think you can eat better

39
1 in L.A. than anywhere.

2 AVENATTI: No, not better than N.Y.

3 WILSON: Maybe not on the high-end, but I think there are

4 much better options. And frankly, the high-end

5 sushi, the sushi is better in L.A.

6 AVENATTI: You got that? Sushi’s better in L.A.

7 WILSON: Do you want their names and addresses? Michael do

8 you have a plane? I think of plaintiff attorneys

9 as having planes.

10 AVENATTI: I have an interest in a plane. Mark’s got two

11 planes. (U/I). Your clients gotta have some

12 planes – they should fly you out.

13 WILSON: Well I wish you had set this meeting in Sydney,

14 Australia.

15 UF: Are you sending it to Tina or are you gonna put

16 it on the USB?

17 AVENATTI: I’m gonna put it on this USB.

18 UF: Okay.

19 AVENATTI: The prior version was on here.

20 UF: Right.

21 AVENATTI: Actually you know what, this is (U/I).

22 WILSON: Kaylee, have you worked here long?

23 UF: Well, I worked for a year for Mark in between

40
1 college and then I went to law school and then I

2 interned I guess for him, like one summer when I

3 was in law school and then I came back in

4 October.

5 WILSON: Very good.

6 UF: And yeah I just took the New York Bar and am

7 waiting for my results. So we’ll see what

8 happens.

9 AVENATTI: Thanks.

10 WILSON: I’m not worried.

11 AVENATTI: How long have you been doing stuff for Nike?

12 WILSON: uh about five years.

13 AVENATTI: Five years?

14 WILSON: I was in the government until – from 2011 to 2013

15 I rejoined the firm.

16 AVENATTI: SDNY or?

17 WILSON: No, the New York Attorney General’s Office.

18 AVENATTI: Oh.

19 WILSON: And I joined, I re-joined the firm in 2013. So I

20 do miss I do miss government work. It’s fun to

21 have subpoena power. It’s – I suppose a

22 plaintiff’s lawyer building a case pre-complaint

23 is more difficult, simply as a plaintiff’s

41
1 lawyer, then it is when you can do some pre-

2 complaint discovery through all the tools the

3 government has. So it was a great experience, and

4 I miss it. But some trials, you know as I tell

5 anyone who would listen, one of the best ways to

6 get trial experience is in government.

7 AVENATTI: Oh unquestionable. Well especially now, it’s not

8 like it was twenty or thirty years ago; the

9 number of trials are far fewer.

10 WILSON: I also think that there is, or so I’m told, I

11 don’t wanna pretend I was trying cases twenty

12 years ago, that there is a time when a client, a

13 large corporate client, might engage a law firm

14 as basically its law firm, and that law firm

15 would handle M & A, and it would handle major

16 corporate litigation, and it would handle slip n’

17 falls you know all the way up and down.

18 AVENATTI: Right. One-stop shop.

19 WILSON: And those slip n’ falls or what have you –

20 UF: Sorry (U/I). You wanna just email it to me and

21 I’ll print it from here?

22 WILSON: What are the changes? Did you just wanna mark

23 this thing up? I wanna get on the horn with my

42
1 client.

2 AVENATTI: Here. I have it right here. I don’t understand

3 what’s going on.

4 UF: Yeah it only shows me the one you sent me from

5 the letter (U/I).

6 AVENATTI: Do you not have a wireless printer?

7 UF: Yeah but you have to connect to it; your computer

8 has to be linked.

9 AVENATTI: (U/I) Here I’ll email it (U/I).

10 UF: Just email it to me and I– (U/I).

11 WILSON: Did you do any corporate work Mike?

12 AVENATTI: Mhm. I started off doing a fair amount of

13 corporate work. Because it was ’99, 2000. It was

14 right before the crash so, if you had a pulse and

15 could read, you would’ve been a corporate lawyer.

16 You mean M & A work and– ?

17 WILSON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18 AVENATTI: What’s the email?

19 UF: Kaylee –

20 AVENATTI: K – A ?

21 UF: Y – L – E – E. @Geragos.com

22 UF: You want one or two copies?

23 AVENATTI: Two please.

43
1 AVENATTI: (U/I). I’ve got to hand it to – I’ve got to hand

2 it to Trump on one thing. And that is that he was

3 one of the first people to identify and

4 appreciate the power of Twitter – as a platform.

5 WILSON: Were you the second?

6 AVENATTI: Well, I wasn’t the second but I mean I, you know,

7 I would say it’s a very powerful tool. You know

8 it used to be when you wanted to disseminate

9 information for the press, you would have to have

10 a press list and things of that nature and when

11 you reach a certain point, depending on who your

12 followers are and the like, you don’t have to do

13 that. So I mean when you have you know, every,

14 not every, but he’s got thousands of major

15 journalists around the world that follow that

16 account.

17 WILSON: Right.

18 AVENATTI: So he’s able to communicate directly with the

19 press at a moment’s notice, and it used to be

20 that if you issued a press release, you would

21 send it to your press list where you put it out

22 on the wire. And then you would hope that the

23 press would use a particular quote in the press

44
1 release.

2 But the thing, the beauty about twitter is, is

3 that especially when you reach a certain

4 threshold and prominence they just print your

5 entire tweet.

6 WILSON: Right, right, I understand the implication of

7 what you’re saying.

8 AVENATTI: No, I’m not, I’m really not implicating

9 anything, there is no implication I’ve said this

10 repeatedly publicly I was just checking my

11 twitter and I had a couple messages about

12 something so that’s what caused me to-look

13 that’s not how I operate if I wanted to send you

14 a message I would just tell you flat out. I mean

15 obviously I use twitter, with success and it’s a

16 good way to disseminate information. I mean

17 anybody

18 WILSON: I think it’s gotten to the point where it would

19 basically be journalistic malpractice not to

20 follow newsmakers on twitter. What journalist is

21 going to ignore the tweets of

22 AVENATTI: But see Trump figured out a long time ago that

23 they’ll print and show his entire tweet.

45
1 WILSON: Right.

2 AVENATTI: It’s his way of conveying the message directly

3 to his audience

4 WILSON: Sure.

5 AVENATTI: Without having to have it watered down by the

6 press or have them selectively quote from it.

7 So. Alright sorry for the delay.

8 [OVERLAPPING CONVERSATION]

9 WILSON: I wouldn’t let you watch me try to use

10 technology either.

11 AVENATTI: I'm glad to hear your wife is feeling better.


12 WILSON: Thank you, I appreciate that. Good seeing you.
13 U/I: Good to see you.
14 WILSON: So meeting in our offices noon Monday 55 Hudson
15 Yards. 20th floor.
16 WILSON: We’ll do that. (U/I)
17 AVENATTI: If you have any questions or want to talk about
18 anything it will probably would be prudent for us
19 to do so before Monday so that-
20 WILSON: I agree.
21 AVENATTI: If we’re going to do something if we’re not
22 that’s fine but it just it will cut down on
23 anything that has to be discussed like Oregon law

46
1 for instance and things of that nature.

2 WILSON: Okay.

3 AVENATTI: I don’t think that’s the issue, the issue is

4 dollars and cents.

5 WILSON: Thank you sir.

6 AVENATTI: Enjoy the day.

7 WILSON: You too. Mark-

8 GERAGOS: Are we coming to you on Monday?

9 WILSON: Yes I’ve done this twice. I think we…

10 GERAGOS: But this is a much this is a very nice place

11 though don’t you think.

12 AVENATTI: I’m sure their offices are very nice,

13 GERAGOS: Yea we'll see.

14 AVENATTI: I’m late for I’m going to have lunch with the

15 Mooch.

16 GERAGOS: I saw him this morning, didn’t I?

17 AVENATTI: He was on CNN.

18 GERAGOS: Yea he was good actually I thought, I saw his

19 face what has he done?

20 AVENATTI: I don’t know, I don’t know.

21 GERAGOS: He done like he lasered his eyebrows and a little

22 Botox or something.

23 WILSON: We’ll see you Monday at noon.

47
1 AVENATTI: Okay bye.

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