Roy Thomas ’ Flashy

Comics Fanzine
CELEBRATING
SCHWARTZ • KANIGHER
INFANTINO • KUBERT $
6.95
BROOME & 1956’s In the USA

SHOWCASE #4! No. 60

July
2006

Twin BONUS!
FIFTY YEARS HAVE TONY
PLUS:

DiPRETA
GONE BY IN A FLASH! & KLAUS
NORDLING
Flash TM & ©2006 DC Comics.
Vol. 3, No. 60 / July 2006 ™
Editor Special Issue
Roy Thomas
Associate Editors CELEBRATING SHOWCASE #4
Bill Schelly
Jim Amash
Design & Layout
Christopher Day
Consulting Editor
John Morrow
FCA Editor
P.C. Hamerlinck
Comic Crypt Editor
Michael T. Gilbert
Editors Emeritus
Jerry Bails (founder)
CONTENTS
Ronn Foss, Biljo White,
Mike Friedrich
Writer/Editorial: Fifty Years Have Gone By In A Flash! . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Production Assistant Life From A Flash Of Lightning. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Christopher Irving on the significance of Showcase #4 (Oct. 1956)!
Eric Nolen-Weathington
Cover Artist Julius Schwartz & Carmine Infantino . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Carmine Infantino A ten-years-after interview with Showcase #4’s editor and artist, by Shel Dorf.

And Special Thanks to: “Written Off 9/30/49” – Part VII. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14

Deane Aikins Christopher Irving Art from a never-published, Infantino-drawn “Flash” story from the Golden Age.
Heidi Amash Larry Ivie
Murphy Anderson Gene Kehoe “I’m Responsible For The Silver Age” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
Manuel Auad Robert Klein Robert Kanigher on many subjects—including (briefly) Showcase #4.
Mike W. Barr Jim Kingman
John Benson
Daniel Best
Bob Koppany
Joe Kubert
Now You Don’t See Him—Now You Do! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26
The Flash-y disappearance and reappearance of Joe Kubert, 1947, viewed by Al Dellinges.
Dominic Bongo Richard Kyle
Ray Bottorff, Jr.
Peggy Broome
Ron Lim
Mark Luebker
“I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30
John Broome in San Diego, 1998—with Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr.
Mark Cannon Russ Maheras
R. Dewey Cassell
Bob Cherry
Dennis Mallonee
Joe & Nadia
“We Were A Very Happy Group” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43
Jim Cleary Mannarino Artist Tony DiPreta to Jim Amash about comic books, comic strips, & the people behind them.
Ernie Colón Maureen McTigue
Ray A. Cuthbert Sheldon Moldoff Tributes To Alex Toth & Dick Rockwell . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
Al Dellinges Matt Moring
Michael Dewally Brian K. Morris Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!: Twice-Told Gilbert!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63
Roger Dicken & Edwin & Terry Michael T. Gilbert presents more scenes that have been depicted twice—or even thrice!
Wendy Hunt Murray
Tony & Frances Jim Murtaugh The Fabulous ’40s – The First Full Decade Of Comic Books. . . . . . . 69
DiPreta Marie O’Brien A 1966 panel featuring Golden Age artist Klaus Nordling at the one comicon he ever attended.
Shel Dorf Denny O’Neil
Don Ensign
Mark Evanier
Andy Patterson
Joe Petrilak
re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
Michael Feldman John G. Pierce
Patricia Floss
Ron Frantz
Craig Popplewells
Ed Quinby
FCA (Fawcett Collectors Of America) #119 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80
P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze and Alex Ross.
Keif Fromm Dan Raspler
Bob Fujitani Linda Lessman About Our Cover: Quite frankly, we’re unsure precisely how this issue’s cover illo came to us,
Carl Gafford Reinhold though we’ve had it sitting around for a while now. That it’s a probably-unpublished, full-color
Earl Geier Alex Ross Flash drawing at least penciled (and signed) by Golden/Silver Age great Carmine Infantino,
John Gentil Marie Severin the man who drew Showcase #4 and the first decade of The Flash, we have no doubt… but as
Frank Giella Keif Simon
Joe Giella Robin Snyder to who inked it, or colored it, we’re less certain. Carmine opines as how he might have inked it,
Janet Gilbert Marc Swayze though it doesn’t strongly resemble his other work… and he probably didn’t color it… but
Glen David Gold Tony Tallarico that’s the way it came, so that’s the way we printed it. The pluperfect cover to a book
Matt Gore Dann Thomas celebrating the 50th anniversary of Showcase #4! And thanks to those listed below for carica-
Ron Goulart Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. tures of the 5 creators. [Flash TM & ©2006 DC Comics; caricatures [l. to r.] ©2006 Estate of
Arnie Grieves Mark Waid Gil Kane; Ernie Colón; the respective copyright holders; Estate of Norman Maurer; Shane Foley.]
Jennifer Hamerlinck Ted White
Irwin Hasen Marv Wolfman Above: Just for kicks, here’s a wide-angle panel from Carmine’s triumphal return to The Flash:
Fred Hembeck Rodrigo M. Zeidan issue #306 (Feb. 1982), to be exact. Inking by Bob Smith, script by Dan Miskin & Gary Cohn.
Heritage Comics Michael Zeno
Carmine Infantino Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, with thanks to Michael Zeno. [©2006 DC Comics.]
Alter EgoTM is published monthly, except Jan., April., Sept., and Nov. by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614,
This issue is dedicated to the memory of USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews,
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a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada.
FIRST PRINTING.
2 writer/editorial
Title

50 Years Have Gone By

In A Flash!
I t was July 4th, 1956.

Or maybe—just maybe, mind you—it was the day before

July 4th, 1956.
This comic was new—and it was old—all at the same time!

And it was wonderful. Purely, completely, utterly wonderful.

I probably bought the fireworks I’d come in for—but all that was
What is certain is that I was on my 15-year-old way to buy really on my mind as I raced the half dozen or so blocks home was
fireworks at Fulenweider’s Drug Store, on Main Street, Smalltown, reading this exciting new comic book. Before it could fall by the
USA. Well, actually, it was Main Street in Jackson, Missouri (1950 wayside, like the revived Human Torch, Captain America, and Sub-
census population, 3694). Same thing. Mariner had at Atlas… or Blue Beetle at Charlton… or Stuntman at
Harvey... or The Flame, Phantom Lady, & company at Ajax… or last
I don’t recall precisely what fireworks I intended to buy. But it year’s Fighting American, or The Avenger, or even Captain Flash....
couldn’t have been anything more dangerous than a few strings of
firecrackers. Maybe a couple of cherry bombs, now that I was a bit I was young. I lived for the moment. The Flash had returned! He’d
older, but at most only a couple, because my parents knew those things been a member of my beloved Justice Society of America, so if he was
were dangerous, bless ’em. back, even in new garb, maybe
one day they would be, too!
But it doesn’t matter what Maybe…
fireworks I was going to buy,
because the only pyrotechnics Naw! It was too much to
that counted that day were the hope for. That was the future,
ones that erupted from the and the future’s a million years
comic book rack. away when you’re 15 and a
color comic book still gets
Because that was the day I your pulse racing every bit as
first laid eyes on Showcase #4. much as a good action movie
That was the day that gave or an exciting program on that
new life to an old favorite— grainy new thing called TV
The Flash. He of Mercury’s hat or… or that cute blonde you’d
and sandals and the tucked-in ask out if you were old
red shirt and no mask. Now he enough to drive and thought
had a streamlined costume that there was a chance in hell she
really looked like it was built wouldn’t laugh at you.
for speed. Lots of hot Probably better to stick to
crimson—with golden movies and TV and
lightning bolts emblazoning it comics…for now, anyway.
here and there. And what’s That July 4th? I’m sure it
faster than a lightning bolt? It was a good one.
reminded me, the instant I saw
it, of Captain Marvel’s outfit, But I’d already had my
only with hood instead of fireworks.
cape—but I’d loved Captain A doubly-classic panel from Showcase #4. [©2006 DC Comics.]
Marvel, and anyway he’d been And those colored lights
gone from the comics shelves for three years now, and it didn’t look have been exploding ever since.
like he was ever coming back. So I didn’t mind this new guy borrowing
one of his old suits and customizing it a bit. Years later, given my dual interest in comic books and history, I’d
wonder how Showcase #4 came about. After three lackluster issues of
I’m sure I flipped through the comic right then and there and was
firemen, animals, and detectives, DC had finally gotten it right. Fully
thrilled to see Barry Allen reading an old issue of Flash Comics—same
aware of how so many great super-heroes had bitten the dust over the
as I had done eight or nine years earlier!—and there was the old Flash,
past decade, I dared hope there were lots of other people like me who’d
as well. The guys who put this comic book out knew what they were
just been waiting for the heroes to come back.
doing. They knew what I wanted—even before I did. I remember being
amazed to see falling objects floating in mid-air before Barry’s eyes in If I had heard, at that time, that the folks who put out comic books
that diner… the way a man with super-speed would see them. The first believed that their audience “turned over” every five years, so that
Flash had certainly seen them that way, too, but we’d never have virtually nobody reading comics in 1956 had been reading them in
known it from reading his adventures. And there was even a Turtle 1951, when All-Star Comics (the first Flash’s last venue) had been
Man—a new version of The Turtle whom I recalled fighting the canceled, I’d have been incredulous. I’d been reading comics ever since
original Flash. 1945, at the age of four going on five, and I wasn’t tired of them. Too
old for comics? No more than I was too old to enjoy the few recycled
 writer/editorial 3

movie serials… or The Adventures of Superman on TV, on those rare
occasions I saw it at a neighbor’s house (our local channel was a CBS
station, and to see Superman on ABC you had to have a good
antenna—which cost money).
I’m sure I was disappointed, two months later, when Showcase #5
featured not The Flash but The Challengers of the Unknown. Even if
the art and story looked and read like that Simon & Kirby team I liked
so much, I’d have preferred to see the Scarlet Speedster whizzing off
another cover straight at me. I kept looking, and hoping, for the eight
months until Showcase #8 came out, and The Flash had returned—for
one more audition.
He was coming back awfully slow for a guy with super-speed… but
at least I had hope.
If I had been able to gaze into a crystal ball and see what lay in store
for me—the whole glorious Silver Age, first at DC, then at the
company that would eventually call itself Marvel again—let alone my
own breathless part in same—I’d have thought I’d died and gone to
heaven.
I guess I could’ve used this space—since it isn’t covered in depth in
the pages that follow—to hash over yet again the creative process
which led to The Flash’s return in 1956. I could’ve recounted the tale
that has become a legend, in which editors Julius Schwartz and Robert
Kanigher and others are at a DC meeting and someone suggests
bringing back The Flash—RK suddenly seemed to remember, late in
life, that it was he, but I’m not sure about that, and anyway it’s enough
that he wrote that first story and did it very well.
But that tale’s been told, endless times—by the late great Julie
Schwartz alone! Robin Snyder pieced events together nicely in his
article “Who Created the Silver Age Flash?” that appeared in A/E
V3#10, along with an interview with artist Carmine Infantino. It’s still
available from TwoMorrows, so we don’t need to go over it again.
This issue is a celebration. For it was fifty years ago this month—
this month—that The Flash came back.
And, whoever wears his costume these days, he’s never really been
away since.
And as long as The Flash is around—somewhere, it’s still the Silver
Age of Comics.
Bestest,
P.S.: Our apologies to Mike W. Barr, and to Patricia Floss (who had
given us her blessing to run an article by the late Rich Morrissey). Both
their pieces about John Broome will see print in a near-future issue.
P.P.S.: And while we’re at it, we want to acknowledge the generosity of
Carmine Infantino, who donated his fee for this issue’s Flash cover to
ACTOR, the organization—often noted in A/E—created to give a
financial helping hand to longtime comics pros who could use one. For
more information, try www.ACTORComicFund.org

#
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Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part one 5

Life From A Flash

Of Lightning
The Significance of Showcase #4
by Christopher Irving
W hen the revived Flash made his first
appearance in Showcase #4 in July of
1956, he was a bolt of lightning that
The Dawn Of The Silver Age
You’ve probably seen ’em before, but
we couldn’t do a celebration of
energized the struggling comics medium into a Showcase #4 (cover-dated Oct. 1956
Silver Age. but on sale in early July) without
showing the cover and both splashes
Fifty years after, one can still wonder what from that legendary landmark issue.
formula made the Barry Allen Flash the harbinger It’s fitting that the first splash had the
of new life where other heroes had failed. Sure, hero rocketing out of an old issue of
Flash Comics, ’cause in a sense that’s
there’d been speedsters in the Golden Age: the
just what he was doing. Art by Carmine
original DC Comics Flash and Johnny Quick, Infantino (pencils) & Joe Kubert (inks),
Quality’s Quicksilver, Comic House’s Silver and scripts by Robert Kanigher and
Streak, Timely’s Whizzer (with his unfortunate John Broome, respectively, under the
costume, as if he were a Yellow Streak) and strong editorial aegis of Julius succeeding the Nazi and “Jap” antagonists of the
Hurricane… there was nothing new about Schwartz. [©2006 DC Comics.] ’40s, while atomic power proved itself (in comic
running fast, not really. books, film, and television) either the cause of mass
So what was it that made this second Flash work? It may not have destruction, a mutating horror, or the source of great power.
been the power alone, but the approach given the new Flash: one more Atlas (earlier known as Timely, and destined one day to become
sophisticated and non-political than many of the other super-heroes Marvel) was the first to try to revive the super-hero, bringing back
making comebacks and debuts in the 1950s.... Captain America, The Human Torch, and The Sub-Mariner in
December 1953’s Young Men #24. The Carl Burgos-drawn cover
Comic books had been dominated by funny animals, teenagers, heralded a very short-lived return for the characters, in their new roles
cowboys, soldiers, ghouls, and spacemen for the early part of the 1950s, as “Commie-smashers” (a term plastered across each issue of a soon-
amid what eventually
became a disastrous slump
for the struggling industry.
After 1953, when Fawcett
threw in Captain Marvel’s
towel and Quality’s Doll
Man was discontinued, the
only super-heroes still in
print were the (dying)
latter company’s Plastic
Man and DC’s Superman,
Batman, Wonder Woman,
Aquaman, Green Arrow,
and, ironically, through
1954, Johnny Quick. When
The Adventures of
Superman television show
starring George Reeves
became a commercial
success in the early ’50s, a
few companies had either
dusted off their old heroes,
or invented new ones,
trying to cash in its success.
In some instances, the
“Commies” were the new
formulaic villains,
6 The Significance Of Showcase #4

tales of Communists and

aliens. Sub-Mariner lasted
for ten issues of his own
book, primarily because of
eventually failed negotiations
with a producer for a live-
action television version of
Namor. Sub-Mariner #33
was dated April 1954, while
#42 wrapped up his return in
October of the next year.

It’s very likely that Joe

Simon and Jack Kirby, the
team that had created Captain
Sunrise of Steel America in 1941, came up with
It was doubtless the success of The Adventures Fighting American in 1954 in
of Superman on TV in the early 1950s, which response to Cap’s revival: the
meant increased sales on the Man of Steel’s red-white-blue-and-gold-clad
various comics titles, that led to attempts by enemy of Communism was an
Timely/Marvel, Simon & Kirby, and others to increasingly satirical look at
“revive” the super-hero… but oddly, DC itself their earlier creation. When
made no attempt to bring back its own Golden patriotic newscaster Johnny
Age stars during this time, contenting itself
Flagg is brutally beaten by
with stories like this one from Superman #78
(Sept.-Oct. 1952), as scripted by Edmond Commie agents, his physically
Hamilton and penciled and inked by Al Plastino. frail brother Nelson’s mind is
Thanks to Ray Bottorff, Jr., & the GCD. transferred into Johnny’s well-
[Superman, et al., TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] built, revitalized body.
Continuing Johnny Flagg’s life,
following Captain America comic). The Nelson dons the Fighting
run of appearances of all three in Young Men would be American costume and, with
over with by #28, eight months later; the trio had also shared billing sidekick Speedboy (who bears an amazing resemblance to Bucky and
during this period in two issues of Men’s Adventures. Sandy, the Golden Boy, both of which Simon & Kirby had developed
In the lead story, The Human Torch comes back in the ’40s), fights the Red Menace. Jack Cole’s lingering Plastic Man of
from the dead and avenges himself by using his now
atomically-powered flame to free his sidekick Toro
from Communist brainwashing. An interesting
detail thought up by the writer established that in
1945 the Torch had killed Hitler (who would return
as The Hate-Monger a decade later in the pages of
Fantastic Four). Russ Heath drew that first
adventure, with subsequent “Torch” stories done by
Burgos, Dick Ayers, and one still-unidentified artist.
The Torch lasted through only three issues of his
own revived book, 1954’s #36 to #38, which had
picked up the numbering from where it had ended
in 1949.

Steve Rogers was now (as he had been in the late

’40s) a teacher at Lee School, teaching Bucky and his
classmates about Captain America, his flag-wearing
alter ego from World War II. As luck happens, Cap
and Bucky are forced to suit up and go into action
once again as The Red Skull strikes at the United
Nations. It seems the Skull’s allegiance to the Nazi
party is a thing of the past—he’s now a (surprise!)
stinkin’ Red! Cap continued through three issues of
his own series: #76 was cover-dated May 1954, the
last issue, #78, September ’54. Much of the art was Back From The Dead—But Not For Long
provided by John Romita, who in the 1960s would As detailed in Alter Ego #35, Martin Goodman, Stan Lee, and Timely/Atlas brought back
draw The Amazing Spider-Man. The Human Torch, Captain America, and Sub-Mariner with Young Men #24 (Dec. 1953), but
the revival didn’t last long. Neither did Simon & Kirby’s Fighting American, though happily
Last but certainly not least, Prince Namor the entire seven issues plus were beautifully reprinted in the 1990s by Marvel in a deluxe
returned in the capable hands of creator Bill Everett, hardcover edition that belongs on any comics fan’s bookshelf. Charlton also briefly revived
who produced slick and beautiful “Sub-Mariner” the 1940s Fox hero, The Blue Beetle. [Young Men cover ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.;
Fighting American ©2006 Joe Simon & Estate of Jack Kirby.]
 Life From A Flash Of Lightning 7

Through his four-issue sojourn,

the Captain encountered such
villains as The Mirror Man, a
reptilian alien who traveled
through mirrors (much like the
later Mirror Master of Flash fame);
The Black Knight, a crazed
scientist who stole a missile
guidance system to sell to
Communist nations; and The
Actor, a master of disguise who
tried to smuggle radium out to the
black market. There were also
some out-of-space aliens whose
modus operandi uncannily precur-
sored the theme of the later short-
lived TV series The Invaders.

Another Cold War hero who

made his debut at roughly the
same time was The Avenger. The
red-clad enemy of Communism
premiered in the first issue of his
own title in 1954. Published by
Magazine Enterprises, a company
known primarily for Western
Two Flashes of Silver? comics (the original Ghost Rider,
It’s ironic that some would credit the Silver Age as beginning with the debut, at the start of 1955, of Sterling Comics’ Tim Holt/Redmask, Straight
Captain Flash. Pencils for all three issues’ worth of “Captain Flash” tales were by Mike Sekowsky, later the original Arrow, and Durango Kid), The
artist of Justice League of America, a feature would would owe its life to a different super-hero with the word “Flash” Avenger was its only conventional
in his name. However, certainly neither Captain Flash nor Magazine Enterprises’ short-lived Avenger (drawn above by super-hero… though ME also had
Bob Powell) made a strong enough impact to inaugurate the Silver Age. Charlton likewise launched its new Nature Strong Man, who fought crime
Boy at the turn of 1956, still in advance of Showcase #4—but it was the DC comic that finally made things happen! wearing a leopard skin.
[©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
When his brother is killed by
the 1940s was the only straight man in a world of oddball criminals; the Russian spies, millionaire scientist Roger Wright becomes The Avenger.
same can be said of Fighting American and his rogues’ gallery: Hotski With the help of his aide Claire Farrow, and armed with a Dissolver ray
Trotski, Poison Ivan, Commissar Yutz, and Count Yuscha Liffso, to gun, he travels around the globe in his Vertical Take-Off and Landing
name a few. Although it only lasted seven issues, Fighting American aircraft, the Starjet.
was the one Cold War comic that took the global contest between the
“Free World” and the “Iron Curtain” countries lightly. The first issue of The Avenger was drawn by Dick Ayers, with the
origin written by Paul S. Newman. The other writer on the series was
Gardner Fox, who had cut his eyeteeth co-creating such Golden Age
While the Atlas experiment failed, it didn’t keep other companies features as “The Flash,” “Hawkman,” and “The Justice Society of
from taking a stab at their own Commie-crushing or atomically- America” for All-American/DC. By the second issue, artist Bob Powell
powered heroes. A small company by the name of Sterling Comics, reportedly undercut Ayers’ page rate and took over the art chores for
which lasted only a couple of years, became one of the first to hop on the remaining three issues.
the nuclear bandwagon, and created what some consider the first
original Silver Age hero: Captain Flash. The Avenger was as steeped in Commie-smashing as the Atlas
Captain America, yet was much more intelligently done. While he did
Captain Flash was actually Professor Keith Spencer, of Atom City, fight the occasional criminal like The Player (a sports prodigy), or a
who gained atomic powers when he was forced to shield an atomic runaway robot, he primarily took the Starjet behind the Iron Curtain
isotope with his body. (There are enough “atomic” references in his or fought Red spies aiming to destroy American freedom from the
origin to amount to an entire nuclear stockpile!) When Spencer clapped inside. Where the benefits of atomic power were the focus in Captain
his hands, he was transformed into the blue-and-red-garbed Captain Flash, its destructive abilities were the focus of many “Avenger”
Flash; he had to clap his hands periodically to recharge the super- stories, as a purple ray beam cut a swath of destruction in “The Metal
powers which enabled him to do everything from causing an avalanche Menace,” or a warhead threatened to detonate in “The Three Faces of
(via hand-clapping, what else?) to encompassing his body in atomic Death.” The Avenger, for all its Red-baiting, was a fine comic that
fire. A young boy named Ricky was his partner, wearing a Bucky-like may have been ahead of its time. Gardner Fox would contribute to
costume, and, like his forebear, still going by his real name. National/DC’s impending Silver Age—

Captain Flash lasted a mere four issues, from November 1954 to
May of 1955, ending when Standard itself folded. Although uncredited,
all of the artwork was penciled by Mike Sekowsky, who half a decade
later would draw Justice League of America for DC. Sekowsky’s
artwork, though it often appeared rushed, had a quirky and kinetic
quality.
—which brings us to Showcase #4.
The Silver Age of Comics officially started (not that the term was
coined by fans of the medium till a few years later) when Showcase #4
(Sept.-Oct. 1956) introduced the new Flash, just a month before
8 The Significance Of Showcase #4

Quality and Plastic Man both bit Broome’s script features what
the dust, leaving DC as the only would become an earmark of the
company still publishing any Barry Allen “Flash” stories: a
comics starring costumed healthy dose of scientific theory.
heroes—the more so since DC (“By traveling fast enough, close
took over Quality’s Blackhawk at to the speed of light, I can set up
that time. vibrations that will project our
bodies into the future!” Flash says
The Silver Age Flash was a as he propels both himself and
retooling of his Golden Age Mazdan into a later century.)
predecessor, and foreshadowed
the return of the super-hero as a For a time the “Flash” stories
formidable genre in comic books. would be alternately written by
Barry Allen, the new Flash, was Kanigher and Broome, with
linked to his Golden Age prede- Gardner Fox being added later.
cessor, Jay Garrick, only through Bits of science thrown into stories
his knowing Jay as a comic book would eventually come to be
character. When Barry is hit by known as “Flash Facts.” While
lightning and doused by many of the prior super-heroes
chemicals, he gains the super- introduced (or, in many cases,
speed of his childhood hero. reintroduced) in the 1950s leaned
toward the political (the afore-
The debut story, “The Mystery mentioned Commie-smashers) or
of the Human Thunderbolt,” was the fantastic (mirror dimensions,
written by Robert Kanigher (who as per Captain Flash), “The
had worked for DC, MLJ, and Flash” kept the fantastic grounded
Fox Comics in the ’40s) and was in real science... or at least in
penciled by Carmine Infantino, a reasonably believable psuedo-
DC regular. Both men, as well as All Carmine, All The Time!
science. As a result, the adventures
the magazine’s editor, Julius For a special “All-Infantino” issue of DC Special in 1968, Carmine’s cover
of Barry Allen felt more real and
Schwartz, had worked on the showed him surrounded by the DC heroes with which he was most associated.
And, while Batman (a character the artist has said he never particularly sophisticated, standing out from
Golden Age Flash, so one would the pack.
enjoyed drawing) was placed front-and-center, prominence was also given
expect this one would be more of
to the Silver Age Flash, easily the creation on which Carmine had the greatest
the same... right? impact. With thanks to Raymond A. Cuthbert. [©2006 DC Comics.]
“The Flash” would start the
ball rolling on future Golden Age
Infantino’s art had improved in revivals, edited by Julius Schwartz, particularly “Green Lantern,”
leaps and bounds over the seven-year stretch between his stint on the “Hawkman,” and “The Atom,” culminating in the formation of the
two Flashes. While he had earlier been a Milt Caniff clone (particularly “Justice League of America” (which actually pre-dated the latter two
in his work on the super-heroine “Black Canary”), his work had grown returns). Justice League of America, DC’s Silver Age answer to the
more cinematic, utilizing close-ups and “widescreen” panels. Added to Golden Age “Justice Society of America,” would enjoy sufficient
the visual equation was the embellishing by Joe Kubert, whose ink line success to spur Martin Goodman’s Timely Comics (or what was left of
lent Infantino’s pencils a grounding weight. The heavy Caniff-inspired it) to launch The Fantastic Four... and that Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
blacks gave the artwork a more real-world feel… the folds in the creation would, in turn, jumpstart the once and future Marvel’s
characters’ clothes had a weight that added to the visual believability. position as contender and lead to the debut of Spider-Man and other
Kanigher’s writing brought a new level to super-speed. Kanigher Marvel mainstays.
focused on that ability from the hero’s perspective: it was all relative. The Flash became the linchpin for the DC Universe, the character
Barry Allen’s first burst of super-speed (manifested when he tries to from whom new things would spring. While Superman and Batman
catch a fleeing taxi), is less shocking than the scene a page or so later, in had been a team in World’s Finest Comics since 1952, the more
which he perceives falling dishes at a diner... hanging in mid-air as if occasional team-ups of the new Flash and Green Lantern (originally in
falling in super-slow motion. Sure, speedsters had always moved the former’s mag) became a special event. The introduction of Earth-
quickly and caught bullets with their hands, etc. But Barry Allen was Two, the parallel world where the Justice Society (including the Golden
perhaps the first speedster who explored his super-speed with the Age Flash) lived, would also occur in the pages of The Flash (#123,
reader. Rather than leaving it a gimmicky super-power, Kanigher made Sept. 1961). The JSA itself would return in The Flash #137 (June 1963),
super-speed a way of life: Barry Allen didn’t just run fast, he saw things which would lead immediately into Justice League of America #21,
at an equally accelerated rate. initiating the first of many annual crossovers between the JLA and their
The villain in that first story was the Turtle Man, not one who Golden Age predecessors.
would go down in the ranks of the Flash’s distinctive Rogues’ Gallery,
but an amusing start. The focus of Barry’s conflict with Turtle Man was In Graeco-Roman mythology, one of the tasks of Hermes (a.k.a.
reflective of Barry’s learning his new powers: while Barry thought in Mercury), the speedy messenger god, was to spirit the departing to the
terms of super-speed, the Turtle Man thought in terms of being super- Underworld. His super-hero counterpart—the Barry Allen Flash—
slow, creating a conflict of wits. But, the story of the Tortoise and the served as a harbinger for other heroes to return from limbo, and for
Hare to the contrary, it was a decidedly unequal battle. the comic book industry to be reborn.

The second story in Showcase #4, “The Man Who Broke the Time And he was a harbinger announced by a sonic boom
Barrier,” written by John Broome, placed The Flash against a slightly called Showcase #4.
more conventional super-villain—Mazdan, a criminal from the future.
Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part two 9

JULIUS SCHWARTZ &

CARMINE INFANTINO
Ten Years After Showcase #4, Two Of The Creators Of The Silver Age Flash
Just Happened To Be In The Same Room…
Interview Conducted by Shel Dorf Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

T his previously-unpublished interview took place on April 26,

1966, in the office of National Periodical Publications (now
DC Comics) editor Julius Schwartz, then the overseer of The
Flash, Green Lantern, Justice League of America, Batman,
Detective Comics, and several other comic magazines. Also present
from the outset, in addition to Schwartz and interviewer Shel Dorf,
was DC production man Ed Eisenberg. While the interview was in
progress, they were joined by “Flash” artist—and, as it happened,
near-future editorial director and publisher—Carmine Infantino.
—Roy.

SHEL DORF: And when did you first become a member of the
Communist Party?

JULIUS SCHWARTZ: Next question.

SD: How did you get into comics?

SCHWARTZ: I’ve told the story a hundred times. I don’t see why I
have to repeat it.

SD: On tape…?

SCHWARTZ: [sighs] Very briefly, I was a literary agent. One of my

clients was a guy named Alfred Bester, a well-known science-fiction
writer. He was writing “Green Lantern” at the time, and he was
working for Shelly Moldoff, who was the editor of the All-American
Comics group.

SD: Sheldon Mayer.

SCHWARTZ: Oh, did I say Shelly Moldoff? I’ve got Shelly Moldoff
on my mind. I mean Shelly Mayer. His [story] editor left, and he
desperately needed an editor, and Bester recommended me, and I went
down. I was interviewed by Mayer in 1944, and two days later I was an
editor up at All-American Comics. My God,
I’m actually an editor more
than 22 years. Next Got A House That’s A Showcase…
question. At the All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention
held in June 2000 in White Plains, NY, both artists and
ED EISENBERG: What is the editor of Showcase #4 were on hand: (left to right:)
your favorite type of Carmine Infantino, Joe Kubert, and Julius Schwartz.
magazine? There were panels on the 60th anniversaries of the
original Flash and Green Lantern, but this particular
SCHWARTZ: Playboy. occasion was a panel just about that immortal issue of
Showcase—ending with a surprise 75th birthday cake
EISENBERG: We’re for Carmine. Photos courtesy of the con’s host: “Where
talking, now, about comics have you gone, Joe Petrilak?”
magazines. Above, John Broome, writer of the 2nd “Flash” story in
that issue, gets the first of his many chances to really
SCHWARTZ: Playboy show what he can do with the concept of super-speed.
comics. [laughs] Art by Infantino & Kubert. [©2006 DC Comics.]
10 Two Of The Creators Of The Silver Age Flash
SD: “Little Annie Fanny,” right?
EISENBERG: Which kind of magazine would you
prefer to put out, if you had a choice? The detective
type, or science-fiction?
SCHWARTZ: I like all types. Whatever I’m doing at the
moment is my favorite. Science-fiction, mystery, super-
characters. Even Westerns, which I abhor, I enjoyed
doing while I was editor of a Western magazine.
SD: Why have you taken the mystery out of
“Batman”?
SCHWARTZ: Well, the mystery was only temporarily
taken out. It’s now back in full force, if you’ll be patient
and read the magazines as they come out. They’re full of
mystery.
SD: And why are these beautiful covers full of
garbage?
SCHWARTZ: What do you mean by “garbage”?
SD: It’s a fantastic cover, but we open it up and we’re
disappointed in the contents. Now, “Batman,” in the
early days—it had a sense of mystery and intrigue. He
scared the **** out of me when he put on that outfit. I
don’t have that feeling any more.
SCHWARTZ: Well, you’ve grown up now, and things that intrigued
you and sounded mysterious before no longer intrigue you, and don’t
sound as mysterious. But if you’ll be patient, and read the forthcoming
issues of Batman, you’ll see they’re full of the “Batman” stories in the
grand old tradition. As for the interior artwork, you’d
be surprised how many readers think the interior
artwork is great. They say, “Bob Kane is the greatest,”
and “Nothing compares to him,” and why did we
have anyone else do a “Batman” when only Bob Kane
can draw “Batman”? And he’s the greatest writer of
“Batman.” Didn’t you know Bob Kane writes
Batman, too? It says so on page one: “Bob Kane.”
You don’t want to disillusion the little kids. You must
believe everything you see in print that says “Bob
Kane” on page one. I believe it.
“Ed Eisenberg—
The Quiet One” EISENBERG: That doesn’t imply that he writes it.
Yeah, yeah, we know we
printed the full version of this SCHWARTZ: No, but the readers say, “Why don’t
panel from Strange you have Bob Kane write the stories the way he used
Adventures #140 (May 1962), to, in the old days?” I’m saying he’s writing as much
“The Strange Adventure That now as he did then, and that’s the answer. But it is
Really Happened!,” only three amazing. I receive so many letters from kids that think
issues ago. But this art is the Bob Kane is the greatest of artists.
only source we have at
present for an image of SD: He never reached his potential.
production sub-chief Ed
Eisenberg. Dig us up an actual SCHWARTZ: Well, that’s another story. You’ll have
photo of Eisenberg, and you to ask Bob Kane.
darn well know we’ll print it!
[©2006 DC Comics.] SD: Of course, you have to understand the person as
a whole, and know what he’s gone through in life.
This is an area that we’re trying to correct. Jerry Bails lost his father
and his mother, and in the last six months, he withdrew [from most
fandom activities]. And the kids are writing in fanzines a lot of
nasty things about Bails, because he was interested in comic fandom,
and then he’s withdrawn, that he’s aloof, and all these things. “He
didn’t answer my phone calls, so he’s—”
SCHWARTZ: Well, let me tell you something. These kids who are now
writing in and are disillusioned that he quit on comics will be the very
kids that will no longer be with comics four or five years from now.
These are the kids who write in, “I’ll be a comic book reader forever
and ever.” But two or three years later, you’re never going to hear—you
don’t get another letter from them, these Paul Gambaccinis, and so on,
that were so enthusiastic, wrote letter after letter, [that] you’d think
they were going to make a career out of comics. They disappeared.
SD: Well, it’s a stage.
SCHWARTZ: Those who are writing in now, I won’t hear from four
or five years from now. So these people who are bawling out there
without knowing the story, I should be—
Four On The Floor
In this interview, knowledgeable readers will notice that Julie Schwartz is
being coy and ironic when he says that in 1966 Bob Kane was “writing as
much now as he did [in the old days]”—i.e., he wasn’t writing at all, since
Batman’s artistic creator never wrote a single “Batman” story. At this time,
Sheldon Moldoff had been ghosting Kane’s art since 1953, though he now
had to produce art more in the vein of what Carmine Infantino was doing
for the “New Look” Batman Julie had inaugurated.
But why, on p. 9, would Julie say he had “Shelly Moldoff on my mind”—
unless he was aware that Shelly was ghosting Bob Kane’s “Batman”
stories—supposedly a deep, dark secret?
Anyway, it seems serendipitous that collector Arnie Grieves recently sent us
this (color) page of four sketches by Golden Age artists done for him on the
floor of a comics convention: “Shelly” doing his early-60s “Bob Kane look”
Batman next to a profile of the Silver Age Flash by Carmine! And, for good
measure, above it are illos of the original Flash by his artistic co-creator,
the late Harry Lampert… and of the Batman-influenced Wildcat, drawn by
his original artist and co-creator, Irwin Hasen! Your cup runneth over,
Arnie—and thanks for letting us share in the bounty, at least a little.
[Flashes, Batman, & Wildcat TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
 Julius Schwartz & Carmine Infantino 11
The Golden Age Of Comic Fandom—In The Flesh
Great of Julie to defend Jerry G. Bails in this 1966 tape, at a time when modern
thoughts of their own,
comics fandom’s virtual founder was being criticized in some unenlightened they just quote someone
circles for abandoning fanzines he had launched, such as Comicollector, The else, and I get letter after
Comic Reader—and Alter Ego—and largely withdrawing from fan-related letter where they make a
activity. But JGB let it roll like water off Aquaman’s back, and has never comments about, say,
forgotten his roots… as witness the monumental Who’s Who of American Batman or Bob Kane. The
Comic Books 1928-1999 (see p. 61 for website address). Here, seen at the way they’re being difficult
Fandom Reunion Luncheon hosted in Chicago by Bill Schelly and others in was something I read in a
1997, Jerry (on right) converses with fellow oldtime fans Mike Touhey (who’d fanzine. And the pity is
helped him with the cover of A/E V1#3 back in ’61) and Joe Sarno (the latter
they probably didn’t even
with his back to us). It was a combination of memories of the Golden Age,
and the then-current Silver Age—what Jerry preferred to call “The Second read the issue they
Heroic Age”—that had begun with Showcase #4 that had led him to do all the commented about.
things he did. Photo courtesy of Russ Maheras.
SD: And they want to see their name in print.
SD: Yeah, but they’re putting it in print, which hurts even more. It’s
SCHWARTZ: Well, that’s all right.
a low blow. But Jerry doesn’t retaliate.
EISENBERG: May I interrupt for one moment? We would like those
SCHWARTZ: Well, he shouldn’t retaliate. He should ignore them,
kids who are so concerned about fanzines to know that we don’t
because we won’t even know those names three, four years from now.
publish our magazines for the limited amount of exuberant fans out
SD: I went over to the kid that publishes a couple of these fanzines there.
and I told him, “Cut this stuff out.”
SCHWARTZ: Well, I’ve said that time after time again. I’ve even given
SCHWARTZ: I don’t think Bails has to make any excuses. I think he the maximum number of fans that you can imagine, say, 5000. And
should be complimented, because I think, without Bails, this comic when you consider that a magazine can have a circulation of 500,000—I
fandom would never have arisen in the first place. don’t know, it comes out to one out of a hundred or something.

SD: But these kids forget. EISENBERG: You have to consider all the readers, not just those who
write in letters. And we can’t be involved in their petty squabbles, even
SCHWARTZ: I think the whole comic fandom started when he came though we have an opinion of who is right.
up here—how many years ago was it? I don’t know, maybe eight, nine
years ago, ten years, whatever it was. [NOTE: Actually, it had only
been five. —Roy.] And he became so enthusiastic that he started
Alter-Ego, and he practically organized fandom single-handed. So he
more than did his share, and even if he left the organization two years
later, his name should be immortalized in comic fandom. These kids
don’t understand it, that’s all.

SD: Wally Wood was infuriated by some of the things that the fans
wrote about him, because they are not professionals; they don’t
realize the working schedules, and the pressures on the cartoonists.
And some kid wrote a nasty letter saying that he knows Wood’s
style, and that on the cover on this particular comic Wood only did
the faces, and yet it’s signed “Wally Wood,” and that this is wrong,
and so on. And Wood got very angry.

SCHWARTZ: Well, the kid must be just as mad whenever President

Johnson makes a speech. He doesn’t believe that President Johnson
writes them, does he? Does he believe that Senator
[Robert] Kennedy writes all his
speeches?

SD: Well, I know what’s wrong “I Don’t Do Sketches”

with fanzines. There’s too much Keif Simon (center), who’s teamed up with Jim Murtaugh to take
infighting. There’s too much misin- numerous photos for once and future issues of A/E, is sandwiched
formation. They sit at home and here between Carmine Infantino (seated) and Dondi/GL/JSA artist
they can pick up a comic and Irwin Hasen at a New York comicon in 2006. Keif writes: “I met
analyze it, and rip it apart, and Carmine for the first time at the first Wizard World East [con] in
write a nasty letter. Philly. I was getting my Archives signed, and was chatting with
him about his work, when a gentleman came up and asked him for
SCHWARTZ: Not only that, but a sketch. He looks up at the man and says, ‘I don’t do sketches.’ As
when they analyze it, they automati- he is saying this, I notice him doing a head sketch of The Flash in
cally analyze it in the manner in my Archives [above]. I was astonished. He hands me the book and
says to me, ‘If you show anybody this at the show, I’ll kill ya.’ We
which they read an article in another
both laughed. Carmine has done a few drawings for me since then,
magazine. And they quote verbatim but that first one holds a special place, for not only did I meet one
things about a magazine or a story or of my idols but made a new friend.” Great story, Jim—and thanks
an artist or a writer, something they for sending us a copy of that page, and of a later one! Thanks, too,
happen to read in another magazine. to Carmine, for giving you his blessing to relate that anecdote.
They’re very unoriginal; they have no [Flash TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
12
SCHWARTZ: And the kids also can’t
understand why they like something when
they’re 8 to 12, and somehow it seems
different when they’re 16 to 20. As I said,
they grow up. But unfortunately, they don’t
realize that comics are not aimed at them,
any more than you expect a 16- to 20-year-
old to sit down and watch a Superman
cartoon show or a Mickey Mouse. They
loved it when they were 8 or 10 years old,
but they wouldn’t come close to it at 20.
Why should they read comics at 20? If they
can read comics, they must read them with
the understanding that the magazine is not
designed to interest them. If they get
enjoyment out of it, it must be for another
reason. They can’t get the same kicks out of
it they did when they were eight or twelve.
I’ve said this for 20 years, or more. I don’t
see why I have to keep repeating it.
SD: As an afterthought, this incident with
Wally Wood was credited to Richard
Buckler, who wrote him a letter. Rich
publishes a super-hero fanzine, and said
that the article he was given to edit was
the one panning Wally Wood. He wasn’t
aware of the repercussions it would have,
and he put this in the letter to Wood, and
Wood didn’t realize the kid was 18. And
so they’ve patched up their differences, but
this was enough, and Wood just
completely disassociated himself from
fandom, and this is what’s happening with
a lot of pros. And these kids all just bring
it all upon themselves. Yet, I do believe
that fans and pros can help each other.
SCHWARTZ: Speaking of a pro, one of
them just walked into the office. I’m going
to turn the mike over to him and bow out
of here because I have work to do. Ladies and gentlemen of Detroit,
Detroit Con, on the Con Detroit, I present Carmine Infantino.
SD: Oh, boy.
EISENBERG: Now, how about that, Shel Dorf?
SD: Mr. Infantino.
CARMINE INFANTINO: My pleasure.
EISENBERG: You look absolutely gorgeous today there, Carmine,
boy. Beautiful suntan.
SD: How many fish did you catch?
INFANTINO: Just a sailfish, that’s about it.
SD: How did you get into the business? Can you give us a short
biography?
INFANTINO: I really don’t know. This man here, Ed Eisenberg, was
the one who brought my work in to National Periodicals. He brought
the work in, and sold me.
EISENBERG: Who?
INFANTINO: You did.
Two Of The Creators Of The Silver Age Flash
EISENBERG: Who? Who am I?
INFANTINO: Ed Eisenberg. That’s four
plugs you got. How many do you want?
[laughs] But this is true. This is the guy
EISENBERG: I also brought your little
friend into the business.
INFANTINO: Frank Giacoia. That’s right.
And this is some 20-odd years ago, and
neither one has forgiven him yet. [chuckles]
There isn’t much I can tell you. Hard school
and hard work, I guess.
SD: Well, this tape is going to be heard by
a lot of young cartoonists who are coming
from underprivileged families, and are
under pressure from their parents to put
away their comics and get to the
textbooks. And yet, they still have such a
deep love of comic art, that it’s in their
blood, and probably always will be, and
they need encouragement at this point. I
think you, of course, are idolized among
“A Golden Man For A Silver Age”
the fans as being one of the greatest
Julie Schwartz may or may not not have been the
draftsmen of all time.
precise DC staffer who, in an editorial meeting in early
1956, suggested bringing back The Flash after a half- INFANTINO: Well, thank you, thank you.
decade absence—but he became the editor who
ramrodded Showcase #4 and decided the new Flash SD: And I thought, maybe you could
should look considerably different from the 1940s hero. have some words of encouragement for
And later, after The Flash was a hit, he presided over these kids. You can think back to some of
new versions of Green Lantern, The Atom, and
the turning points in your life where you
Hawkman—the return of The Spectre—and the debut of
the Justice League of America. Even if we discount had to make certain decisions—
Adam Strange, The Atomic Knights, the “New Look”
SCHWARTZ: But you’d be leaving out the
Batman, and his later contributions to Superman, that
part about all the hard work.
definitely earned Julie the title emblazoned on the cover
of Jim Kingman’s 2004 fanzine Comic Effect #39! Thanks
INFANTINO: Oh, I don’t know.
to Jim and to artist Ed Quinby. [Julie caricature ©2006
by Ed Quinby; comic characters TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] SCHWARTZ: It’s work, right?
SD: Let’s not rush. There’s plenty of tape there. If you have a couple
of minutes, just think it over.
INFANTINO: I came from the same kind of situation and
background, I think, that these kids did—the Depression days, when I
was born—so I know the feeling, the attitudes of the parents. But if the
will is there, no matter what the attitudes, you’re going to make it. I
don’t think you can even help yourself. It’s hard work. It’s still hard
work to Eddie. Eddie can testify to that. Do you agree?
EISENBERG: I most certainly do. I think I explained this whole part
of development from an aspiring young artist into a professional on the
tape before. But unless you really want to do it, you’re not going to do
it.
INFANTINO: It’s still hard work, and becomes harder and harder.
And the hours get longer.
SD: They seem longer. [chuckles]
INFANTINO: You keep getting tired, but you do it, and you keep at
it. If it’s instinct, I don’t know what the hell it is. I’m becoming at a loss
for words.
EISENBERG: Actually, what you have to do is keep up with the
times.
INFANTINO: Yeah.
 Julius Schwartz & Carmine Infantino
EISENBERG: You see, one of the reasons you have been as successful
as you are is that you’ve been able to adapt to different styles. No,
seriously. You’ve been able to adapt to different styles, and roll with the
punches, so to speak. If a strip goes great, fine. If it’s on a down—take
“Johnny Thunder.” You did “Johnny Thunder.”
INFANTINO: In the end, I did.
EISENBERG: For a while, and then you did that “Pow-Wow Smith”
thing. Great, fine. So what happened when they didn’t sell any more?
INFANTINO: We switched to something else.
EISENBERG: Right. Science-fiction.
INFANTINO: You’ve got to gamble.
EISENBERG: And how many people can really do this and do it
13
successfully?
INFANTINO: Not too many people.
EISENBERG: Very few people. You took over “Batman” after so
many years, right? And then what happened?
INFANTINO: We were told to build it up, and we worked very hard. I
don’t know if we built it up, whether we did it, or the radio show did it.
“The radio show”—listen to me; TV. But it’s coming back, ever so
slowly. And this is not a one-man operation. It starts with one, and
everybody up in this office has something to do with it. These
production people work harder than any of us, because their job is to
see that we’re at our best, to make sure we do our best, and to
get it out. And this is the most difficult job of all. They’re the
unheralded and unsung heroes of this business.

Addendum: CARMINE INFANTINO On The Creation Of The Silver Age Flash

T
he following is a brief excerpt from an extended interview
with the artistic co-creator of the 1956 Flash, conducted by
Jim Amash. It will be printed in its entirety in a future issue
of Alter Ego, but we felt this portion of it deserved airing
here, with Carmine’s permission:
JIM AMASH: Why did you change The Elongated Man’s costume?
feature in the 1980s, you beefed him up.
INFANTINO: I gave The Flash a slim build because he was a runner.
Runners are usually slim and trim, not very muscular. That was the
point I emphasized. I did make him stockier in the 1980s. I hadn’t
drawn the character for a long time, and I had seen what other artists
had done with him, so I tried to draw him as he had been developed.

CARMINE INFANTINO: Because I didn’t like the first one I
designed. I asked Julie if I could change the costume and he said I could.
The old one had that drab purple color, and purple was never one of my
favorite colors. As a villain, which The Elongated Man originally was,
the costume was okay. But now that he was a hero and had his own
feature series, I thought it was time to
brighten up The Elongated Man.
JA: In the 1980’s, you returned to DC
and started drawing The Flash again.
How did it feel to draw that character
again after all those years?
INFANTINO: I felt like everything
fell back in place again, like I had never
stopped drawing him.
JA: When you drew the Golden Age
Flash in the 1960s, you changed him
just a little.
INFANTINO: Yes, because he was
older now. He had a little more weight
on his body and I made his hair grey at
the temples. If you notice, I also tilted
the angle of his helmet, like he had a
little more bravado.
JA: In the 1940s, you drew The Flash,
more or less, in the style of the
previous “Flash” artist, E.E. Hibbard.
Were you told to do that?
INFANTINO: No. I drew him that
way because I didn’t feel like I could
change the look of the character. I
adapted my style to suit the style of the
feature, for continuity’s sake.
JA: When you originally drew the
Barry Allen Flash, you drew him as a
slim man. When you returned to the
JA: I’ve noticed that when you’ve drawn The Flash in your
retirement years for commissions, you’ve kept the bulkier look.
INFANTINO: Yes, because he’s the character [DC] has ended up with,
so that’s the way I draw him now.
JA: When you first drew Barry Allen,
how old did you imagine him to be?
INFANTINO: He was about 22 to 25
years old. I wanted him to be boyish
looking; that was important. I gave him
a bow tie, which was his trademark, and
a sports jacket. I gave him a crewcut
because guys coming out of college then
wore crewcuts. I didn’t base his features
on any particular person, though.
JA: How old did you imagine The
Elongated Man and Adam Strange
to be?
INFANTINO: The Elongated Man,
Ralph Dibny, was about 30 years old.
His wife Sue was a little younger. I
enjoyed drawing that series. As for
Adam Strange, I had to do a take-off on
Gil Kane’s original cover. I’d say Adam
Strange was about 30 years old.
JA: When you drew super-heroes, did
you usually consider them to be in
Flash Of Two Ages their twenties or maybe 30 at the
After the early issues of Showcase and The Flash, Infantino’s most oldest?
important work was perhaps “Flash of Two Worlds” in The Flash
#123 (Sept. 1961). That justly-famed cover has been reproduced ad INFANTINO: Not in their 30s...
infinitum. Here, repro’d from a photocopy of the (autographed) almost always in their 20s. The human
original art, is the Carmine Infantino/Murphy Anderson cover for figure is basically at its
Flash #137 (June 1963), the third two-Flashes story, with villain physical peak between 20
Vandal Savage… the one that brought the Golden Age Justice and 30, so that’s why I
Society of America into Silver Age comic books with a bang that drew heroes at that age.
still reverberates! Thanks to Bob Koppany. [©2006 DC Comics.]
Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part three 14

Art From A Never-Published, Infantino-

Drawn “Flash” Story From The Golden Age
Part VII Notes by Roy Thomas

W e won’t go on yet again in detail about how, in the late

1960s, DC “intern” Marv Wolfman saved hundreds of
pages’ worth of Golden and Silver Age art from being
destroyed by DC Comics years after it had been “written off” for tax
purposes in 1949—that story is told most completely in the new trade
paperback The Alter Ego Collection, Vol. 1 (see TwoMorrows ad
block on pp. 90-96). Among the work thus preserved for posterity
was a considerable portion of two circa-1948 “Flash” stories penciled
by Carmine Infantino; the inker is uncertain. One of these is a riff on
Mark Twain’s A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court.
The other tale, featuring the recurring foe The Thinker, was once
scheduled to be in Flash Comics #112, but was left unpublished when
that mag was discontinued with #104 at the turn of 1949. Other art
from this tale has appeared in A/E V3#5, et. al. Here’s a bit more, all
courtesy of Heritage Comics’ archives, as retrieved for us by the
hardworking Dominic Bongo. The following three pages illustrate how
Infantino was drawing the Golden Age Flash, less than a decade before
he helped revitalize the speedy super-hero in Showcase #4….

In this grouping of four panels—two “tiers”—which may or may not have remained together when
Marv was forced to slice pages into pieces so he wouldn’t be taking home complete pages, The Flash has
somehow been outwitted by The Thinker. Well, that’s why they called him “The Thinker,” right?
 Written Off 9-30-49 –– Part VII 15

There seem to be a number of “exceptions proving the rule” with regard to this salvaged “Flash” tale!
Here’s an entire page—the 5th, following right after the quartet of panels printed on the preceding page.
Judging from those pale lines between tiers, it may have been cut apart at one time, and later re-pasted
together.

No need to comment, since Chris Irving did so earlier, on the Caniff influence then apparent in
Carmine’s work (as in that of so many comic book—and comic strip—artists of the Golden Age). But, in
the last two or three years of Golden Age “Flash” stories, the art on the feature suddenly took a more
realistic and illustrative turn, as first Joe Kubert, then Lee Elias, then Carmine, were given the series by
editor Sheldon Mayer. (For more on this, see pp. 26-29 in this very issue.)
16 Art From A Never-Published Infantino-Drawn “Flash” Story From The Golden Age

Comic book stories in the 1940s tended to be highly formulized. Here, after a coin saved a man’s life
back on p. 5, another gent tells The Flash how a tiny flashlight, given him by a “little old man” (the same
guy who’d earlier given the Scarlet Speedster a book) prevented him from being killed:

And below, in a tier from the final (probably 12th) page of the story, we see that “little old man” who
handed out the bell, book, and candle—whoops, we mean the coin, book, and flashlight—demolishing his
“time machine” after The Flash has mopped up The Thinker’s gang.

Clearly, the senior-citizen type invented some substance that, perhaps by coating those three objects,
saved the lives of two other men—and probably, at some point, The Flash’s, as well. Now, what those
objects had to do with the so-called “time machine” of the old man’s which The Thinker discovers on
p. 5—and which he’s apparently destroying in the panels above—

Well, like they used to say in all those old Universal horror flicks: “There are some things that man was
not meant to understand!”

Nice art, though, huh? And Carmine only got better and better…!
Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part four 18

“I’m Responsible For The Silver Age”

ROBERT KANIGHER On Many Subjects—Including (Very Briefly) Showcase #4
Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Christopher Irving

R obert Kanigher, the writer of The

Flash’s origin story in Showcase #4,
passed away in 2002. Chris Irving
interviewed him in 1999, ostensibly on the
Canary (Canary sings the birds out of the
trees). Anyways, they changed the names of an
entire frontline company!

subject of the Fox hero The Blue Beetle, for CI: That’s something else. That has got to be
his upcoming book on that super-hero for pretty flattering.
TwoMorrows… not that that proved to be KANIGHER: It’s unbelievable. I just found
exactly RK’s favorite topic…! —Roy. out that, all of a sudden, I seem to be getting
Internet messages: I seem to be in the Internet!
CHRISTOPHER IRVING: I wanted to see
if you had any insights that you could offer
me.

ROBERT KANIGHER: I wrote 100 pages a week. The Bouncer was

the first character I created. After that, I created the rest for DC,
probably 100 characters, from Sgt. Rock to Metal Men, Black Canary,
Rose and Thorn. The Fiddler was a villain. Lee Elias complained; he
played the fiddle and said, “I can’t use the fiddle like a bow and arrow.”
Every time he did the strip, he kept complaining about it. I also created
Poison Ivy, who became a movie star.

CI: Yeah, Uma Thurman.

KANIGHER: Yes, that single character made her a movie star. She
went from there to other pictures. Schwarzenegger bought the movie
rights to “Sgt. Rock and Easy Company.”

CI: Do you know if he’s doing anything with it?

KANIGHER: I destroyed it. I did about 420 stories about Rock and
Easy. They were so realistic that I received mail from servicemen who
claimed to have served with Rock. I received a letter from Vietnam; the
sergeant said he was calling himself Sgt. Rock, they had renamed
themselves Easy Company, and the other men were taking the names of
the characters that I created: Little Sureshot, Loudman, Bulldozer,

“FLASH TAB RTLEM”

R. Kanigher and daughter Jan, in a photo taken some years ago in a restaurant in
Paris—juxtaposed with two “Flash” images.
(Left:) The final four panels of his justly-famed origin story for Showcase #4.
Always wondered about that newspaper headline in the last panel: “FLASH TAB”—
with a word ending “RTLEM” which reads like someone starting to write “Turtle
Man” and running out of room. Art by Carmine Infantino & Joe Kubert.
(Right:) The splash of the Kanigher-scripted story “To the Nth Degree” from The Flash
#197 (May 1970). Pencils by Gil Kane; inks by Vince Colletta. Thanks to Bob Cherry for
the scan. [Photo ©2006 Estate of Robert Kanigher; pages ©2006 DC Comics.]
 “I’m Responsible For The Silver Age” 19

I don’t know who did it. I don’t

bother to seek those sources... I like
it, because it ranges from somebody
from Montana to [Robin] Snyder:
“I understand that you received a
letter of recommendation for
Kanigher’s story…do you like it?”
“Like it? I’m rabid about it! I have
a friend who is even more so!”
Another one came that said:
“Kanigher should be stood up
against a wall and shot for writing
Blitzkrieg and ‘Enemy Ace’ and
‘Panzer.’” I wrote those from the
German point of view. “Enemy
Ace” is considered (I’m quoting
and not making it up) “a world-
wide achievement. There is nothing
like it in Europe or anywhere in the
world.” I made a sympathetic
character who kills French, British,
Americans. Neal Adams told me
that, in Europe, they consider him
the most psychological, complex
character in all of American comics.

CI: You said that you wrote some

“Blue Beetle” stories.…
RK reveals that he received hate mail, as well as plaudits, for both “Enemy Ace” and his Blitzkrieg series,
KANIGHER: [This magazine] is which were “written from the German POV.” The series itself has a “by Kubert & Kanigher” byline—and indeed
called The Comic World, Vol. 1, #18; Kubert was the editor at this time—while the art on this double-page splash from Blitzkrieg #3 (May-June 1976)
bimonthly by Robert Jennings, RFD
2, Whiting Rd., Dudley MA. 01570.
This is [the issue for] September 1978.
Victor Fox was the publisher [of Blue Beetle].
CI: I’ve heard he was a former accountant at DC.
KANIGHER: Fox had nothing to do with DC. An accountant!? Jack
Liebowitz was an accountant for Harry Donenfeld, who was a certified
alcoholic. There are so many things that they get wrong that it’s
unbelievable.
CI: Did you write the first “Blue Beetle” story?
KANIGHER: [quoting] “Kanigher may never have written for comics
before”—it’s true; I never wrote comics, I never read comics, I never
looked at comics—“but he was a natural-born storyteller with an
ability to build fast-moving plots and intricate subplots into the
framework of a short comics story. Once he ironed out his weak
points, he began to turn out stories by the hundreds. He sold work to
the MLJ titles, and then some to DC. He sold so many to DC, and
they were of such consistently high quality, that he eventually landed a
job as editor there in 1945.” I didn’t land a job—they called me up and
invited me as a writer/editor. [Co-publisher Jack] Liebowitz and
[DC/AA editor] Shelly Mayer invited me as an editor. I said, “I can
make more money without even getting out of my pajamas at home.”
They said, “We want you to be a writer and an editor; to be a staff
editor and to be a freelance writer.” Anyway, Jennings writes: “Mixed
in with the bad or foolish were occasional episodes that really stand
out. Episodes that were so good, it seems incredible that any Fox
character, even The Blue Beetle, should be entitled to that. One such
adventure involved a scientist with a substance called ‘homodesiline,’
which has the ability to clone double cells of animals and humans. In
other words, rapid cloning process.”
I was the first for many things. There are some things that Jenette
All’s Not Quiet On The DC Front
is by Ric Estrada. [©2006 DC Comics.]
Kahn killed. I could have been with the first female astronauts.
[NOTE: Too bad RK didn’t elaborate on this point. —Roy.] This is
why I left. I was the sole editor and writer of Wonder Woman for 22
years. Remember, I never read or saw a comic book. Even after I began
writing them, I never looked at them. Once I proofed a book of mine, I
never looked at it. Or anything that anybody else was doing while I
was there as an editor/writer… or at Marvel.
I was visiting Marvel. Joe [Kubert] told me to come over. When
[Marvel editor-in-chief Jim] Shooter heard my page rate was $50 a
page—[DC managing editor Dick] Giordano didn’t want to give me
more; Carmine [Infantino] said that they wired up the sales; war books
were very high sellers consistently—anyway, Jim says “$50 a page for
you? You’re getting $65—my rate, retroactively.”
I don’t know why you’d want to write about “The Blue Beetle.”
CI: I’m doing a comprehensive story because nobody has before.
There’s been an issue recently as to which artist created the
character.…
KANIGHER: I’m a painter, and when I say painter—there are no
artists in the field. They are illustrators. They illustrate the written or
verbal word. I am a writer and an artist. I’m an artist because I start
with a blank canvas.
I promised Ross Andru the wedding present of an oil painting. This
story is legendary. So, I brought along paints, pigments, a brush, a
pallete knife, and a stretched canvas. It was after work and people
gathered around. I got down on my hands and knees (that’s the way I
do oils, on the floor). One person said, “Where’s your sketch?”
I said, “No sketch.”
“What’s your subject matter?”
20 Robert Kanigher On Many Subjects–––Including (Very Briefly) Showcase # 4
“I Don’t Know Why You’d Want To Write About‘The Blue Beetle’”
That was one of several subject-changing comments by RK on the official topic of
Chris Irving’s interview—but the intrepid Chris stuck at it, and we’re glad he did.
It’s very unlikely that Kanigher wrote this story from Fox’s Blue Beetle #28 (March
1944)—but we thought we should at least show you the character about whom Chris
is prepping his book. Artist uncertain. [Blue Beetle TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
“No subject matter.”
“What are you going to paint?”
I said, “The painting will tell me what to do.” I always start with a
wet canvas. In less than an hour and a half, I had a painting.
He said, “If I painted like that, it would kill me.”
He’s very famous, and he became the head of an Oregon advertising
agency.
He said, “Kanigher eats artists for breakfast and spits them out for
lunch,” which is ridiculous! I say I’m a writer because I start with a
blank page. No plot. That’s why Fox hired me. I know nothing. I
answered an ad (things were very bad at our house, economically) and
walked into an office about a mile long. At the end of it is a desk about
the size of a football field. Behind it is a bald head.
The bald head tells me, “Tell me a story.”
Without breaking stride, I said, “A skeleton is driving an open
convertible in Times Square (not someone in a costume, but a real
skeleton), and people are running in sheer panic.”
He said, “I like a man who thinks on his feet.” C.W. Scott was my
editor. That was it.
When I started “Rock and Easy Company” thirty years ago, as I
was writing, I realized what I had and said, “Look, Joe, I’m going to
write a novel of Rock and Easy—a novel for Random House, or
Putnam, and you’ll illustrate it. It has never been done before, and the
movies would grab it because it’s all down there. My captions and
dialogue and your illustrations are all the same; it’s what Hitchcock is
like, scene by scene.” But, he was building his house. We could have
been first. Anyway, that’s it. Is there anything more?
CI: No, I don’t think so, since you can’t recall who [Charles]
Nicholas was.
KANIGHER: Oh, God.
CI: Would you happen to know who Chuck Cuidera was?
KANIGHER: No. Let me put it this way: my work is in comics,
but I would never read comics. I never ate with, drank with,
gossiped with the comic people. Their world is comics. That’s
why comics is a bunch of crap. They know nothing of the
outside world. They know nothing of art, of music. Everything I
learned from Raphael (you name it)... I put in my stories. Not
pedantically, but inside they give me levels which [other comics
writers] can know nothing about, because all they do are
rewriting comics. The illustrators (or, as you would call them:
artists) copy from each other and, if you go back long enough,
you get some intelligent ones that copy from Beardsley or
DaVinci, but they don’t know that.
Mort Meskin is the guy that said, “If I painted like that, it
would kill me.”
Demonology is spread about me, which is untrue. A lot of
people think I fired Alex Toth. I would never fire talent—
number one. Number two—Alex Toth was drawing my “Johnny
Thunder,” the Western “Johnny Thunder.” I also created “The
Trigger Twins.” Anyway, Julie Schwartz was the editor. I
couldn’t have fired Alex if I wanted to (and I wouldn’t have),
because I wasn’t the editor. Julie fired him for this unbelievable
reason. We shared an office together. I had nothing against him.
Whenever he got into a jam, he asked me for a script. What I did
was, since our offices were ass to ass, I built a tiny wall of books
between us so I didn’t have to see his face. He was very methodical: he
always ate in, and he would play cards with Milty Snappin. Alex used
to come in at noontime for work he’d already done. His check was in
Julie’s desk, in the top drawer. All he had to do was open it and give it
to him.
How long would that take? Five seconds. He refused to give it to
him because he “dared to enter the office of an editor at lunchtime.”
Alex started to yell, Julie started to yell, and Julie fired him. Julie didn’t
have the guts to say that he fired him, not me. But people thought I
did, since I created “Johnny Thunder” (which Alex drew) and I created
“The Trigger Twins,” and I designed all the covers. (I always designed
the covers of any books that I edited and any feature stories that I
always did; I happened to have the gift for that.)
When Joe Kubert left to do The Green Beret, I took one look at
the strip and said, “It’s a still-life, it’s not as good as any of the ‘Easy
Company’ work he did. There is no passion, there is no emotion, there
is no movement.” Despite all of the publicity, and John Wayne posing
for Joe, it bombed.
Who did I have to do “Rock” and “Haunted Tank”? Russ Heath,
who had been in Chicago doing [Little] Annie Fanny. I sent him
scripts, and when he said he started it, I knew he hadn’t started it.
When he said he was halfway through, I knew he had started it. When
he said he’d mailed it, I knew he hadn’t finished it yet. I described the
covers (this is over the phone), and, as Joe said, I speak in pictures. He
said he could draw, without having ever been there, something I
described. The covers came back from Russ: perfect covers, over the
phone, while he had been in Chicago. That’s never been done before.
Have you ever heard of it?
CI: No. But I have to say that your skeleton driving put a pretty
vivid picture in my head.
 “I’m Responsible For The Silver Age” 21

KANIGHER: “Metal Men.” There is a legend about “Metal Men.”
[NOTE: At this point RK tells the story of his creation of the concept
for “Metal Men.” Since this was already related, in his own words,
in A/E #53, it is omitted here in the interests of space.] Do you know
how many characters there are in “Metal Men”?
CI: Five of them, right? Lead, Mercury, Gold, Tin, and—I want to
say Aluminum, but I know it’s not right.
KANIGHER: Tina—Platinum! Dr. Magnus, and the villain was
Chemo! Anyway, I did the 23 pages on Saturday. My wife typed it up
on Sunday. I had called Ross [Andru] to come in Monday morning. He
came in Monday morning. I gave him page one of the script, and I gave
him a single page of blank typing paper. I said, “Go into production.
No matter how many panels I may have, I want you to get it all on one
page. When you’re finished, come back to me. You can give me a
vertical line for a figure, horizontal for horizon, a circle for a head. I
don’t give a damn what, just do it.”
I was then conducting my editorial business. He came back to me,
and I told him I wanted it rough, so I was able to make one panel
across out of three or four, or three or four across out of one. I was
able to make a vertical out of a horizontal, or a horizontal out of a
vertical. I was able to tell him, “I want you to make this panel one inch
shorter or one inch less than the regular size, so that you’ll be able to
have an action break through the panel.”
really tough to find any first-person accounts. Unfortunately, not too
many writers or artists are easy to find or even around anymore—
KANIGHER: They’re all dead, Goddammit! It’s shocking—out of all
nine editors at DC, two are left. It’s a tragedy, and people like you are
trying to get the so-called Golden Age. You know that I’m responsible
for the Silver Age?
CI: Are we talking about the Barry Allen “Flash” in Showcase #4?
KANIGHER: Correct. Not only that, but I designed the legendary
cover.
CI: The filmstrip with The Flash bursting out of it.
KANIGHER: That’s right. Julius told everyone that Carmine did it.
Carmine denied it twice in a great big interview. The editor called me
up, and I said “no” before he asked me what he wanted to. He
questioned Carmine twice about “The Flash,” and Carmine said,
“Kanigher all the way.” [NOTE: For Carmine Infantino’s take on
this matter, see a future issue of A/E. —Roy.] Not only that, but he
gave me a rough of the cover that everybody credits me with. You see,
there’s a lot of things going on comics because of stupidity, lack of
integrity. If I were to tell you the truth.…

I read Mark Evanier’s column. He said that he interviewed Ross,

and knew that Ross was unhappy with the work that he did. There
was always something more that he wanted to do. Ross said (I don’t
have it here, so I don’t remember exactly what he said), “When Bob
gave me the script to ‘The Metal Men,’ I knew that I had an impos-
sible deadline, but I also knew that if I could get it in in the time he
gave me, it could be mine. Of course, I was sure there would be a
series, and [Kanigher] designed it so that there couldn’t be one! The
one thing I couldn’t understand was, why did Bob create characters
which engendered 7,000 complimentary letters for the first issue—
why did he kill them all in the first issue!?” [laughter] I did it
because I didn’t want to do another one!

CI: Yet DC brought them back.

KANIGHER: I didn’t have a choice. What gave me the idea? A

single sentence. I never took science, I regret to say. I prefer to make
up my own world of science. I read in a science book before I
started. It was a battered old volume. It said, “A single strand of hair
can be stretched the distance of a mile.” That told me how to handle
them all. I used their characteristics, metallic characteristics for all
those weird shapes. All I could remember about Mercury was that
my mother stuck it in my behind when I was a kid and it went up
and down. When Mercury got mad, he went up and steam came up
from him and so on. He thought he should be leader. Tin, I made
him with an inferiority complex. How did I show it? I gave him a
stammer. That’s the way I write. It flows, and I never plot. I start
from a line, and it just flows. I don’t know how they do it.

CI: I know people who will toil away at something for years, and
keep writing and writing with the belief that if they keep plotting
it will make it a good story. But it’ll be crap if you don’t start out
with a good idea.

KANIGHER: I feel that there is some force inside me, using me as a

conduit. There is no hesitation that just flows. I write poetry. I look at
it ten minutes later, and I don’t know how it got there. I just don’t
know.
I can’t tell you anything more about “The Blue Beetle.”
CI: I do appreciate everything you’ve told me, Mr. Kanigher. It’s
A Prince Of A Fellow
Robert Kanigher as writer (and often editor) and Joe Kubert as artist was a
longtime team supreme at DC, particularly on “Sgt. Rock.” One of their earlier
and also well-remembered collaborations was on the “Viking Prince” series
that ran for several years in the 1950s in The Brave and the Bold. In this page
from issue #10 (Feb-March 1957), the amnesiac Jon accidentally discovers
America. [©2006 DC Comics.]
22 Robert Kanigher On Many Subjects–––Including (Very Briefly) Showcase # 4

I took the place of an editor who died. At breakfast I came in.
Naturally, I called switchboard and said, “Reroute all my appointments
and calls to his office. I’m setting up HQ here.” I looked to see what
inventory he had. I found out that he’d kept every carbon of mine for
the past several years, and drawn a line through my title. He also got
kickbacks from DC: $76,000. You’d never know it; no one would
know that.
CI: My God!
KANIGHER: I saw it first. I picked up twelve scripts of mine. I said
“I’m not gonna tell anyone, I don’t want to embarrass the family. I’ll
write one script a month with his title, because the inventory people
won’t have a script. They only have the ones that I did. All right, that’s
not bad, I’ll do one a month.”
Then, 12 became 20, became 30, became 50. I called Mort
[Weisinger] and Jay [Emmett] and said “For God’s sake, come in here.”
They said, “You ought to speak to Jack [Liebowitz].”

“I can’t do it.”

They said, “You’ve gotta do it.”

Did you know that? Nobody knows that; it was kept

secret.

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81,

Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

Fred’s Flash
Since Carmine Infantino’s monumentally important (and eye-catching)
cover was seen on p. 5, here’s a somewhat stylized version by
cartoonist/commentator Fred Hembeck. Of the importance of this book to
him personally, Fred writes that, at age eight: “I began buying DC Comics
on my own in the late spring of 1971. With absolutely serendipitous timing,
along came the perfect primer for this novice comics reader: DC’s first
giant-sized Secret Origins edition! Yeah, I realize the topic here is Showcase
#4, but consider this—without Showcase #4, there is no Secret Origins
collection! More than half the book was made up of stories drawn directly
from DC’s tryout title (‘Green Lantern,’ ‘Challengers of the Unknown,’ ‘Adam
Strange,’ and of course ‘The Flash’ himself). And of all the stories in that
issue, the one that made the biggest impression on me, the one that still
resonates with me most to this day, was the ‘Flash’ debut yarn. Okay, sure,
The Turtle Man was hardly a foe worthy of The Flash’s latter-day Rogues’
Gallery, but there are so many other iconic images in that first story that,
well, who really cares if the bad guy was so badly contrived? Was there
ever to be found, for instance, such a memorable depiction of frank and
beans nestled between the glossy covers of a comic book as there was in
this, with Barry Allen’s stunned eyes popping unforgettably as the
dislodged food seemed to hang eerily still in mid-air? Brother, that was all
it took. Carmine Infantino immediately became my favorite Silver Age
artist, The Flash my favorite DC character who wasn’t from Krypton, and
Barry Allen far and away my favorite busboy of all time! That earlier
landmark comic [Showcase #4] provided a foundation for all that
followed!” [Flash TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
 “I’m Responsible For The Silver Age”
Golden Age “Flash” Stories Scripted by Robert Kanigher:
[Listing by Robin Snyder; number at end of each entry is pages in story. A “?” notation behind the story title means Robin isn’t certain if that
story was, indeed, written by RK. If not, it is most likely the work of John Broome. Anyone out there have any additional information?]
1946:
All-Flash #24 (Aug.-Sept.) – “Appointment with Destiny” – 13
“Fourth Dimensional Follies” – 13
All-Flash #25 (Oct.-Nov.) – “The Flash Cuts a Rug” – 12
“The Mermaid and the Dopes” (?) – 13
“The Man Who Led Two Lives” - 13
1947:
All-Flash #26 (Dec.-Jan.) – “Secrets of the Criminal Cake” – 12
“The Man Who Talked Too Much” (?) – 13
“Mrs. Bramley’s Boarding House” (?) – 13
All-Flash #27 (Feb.-March) – “The Thinker Cooks with Gas” – 13
“Fighting over Fish” – 13
“A Boat Can Be Bad Business” – 13
All-Flash #28 (April-May) – “That’s Right, You’re Wrong” – 13
“The Disappearing Diamonds” (?) – 10
All-Flash #29 (June-July) – “The Thousand-Year-Old Terror” – 12
“Accidents by Appointment” – 10
A Flash Of Gold…
A Kanigher-scripted, Kubert-drawn “Flash” page from Flash Comics #88
(Oct. 1947), with thanks to Al Dellinges. See pp. 26-30 for more Kanigher-
Kubert “Flash” art! Thanks to Al Dellinges. [©2006 DC Comics.]
23
“The Secret in the Chest” – 13
All-Flash #30 (Aug.-Sept.) – “The Vanishing Snowman” – 12
“The Land beyond the Picture” (?) – 12
All-Flash #31 (Oct.-Nov.) – “The Secret City” – 12
“Twisted Destinies” – 12
“The Planet of Sport” – 13
Comic Cavalcade #20 (April-May)
– “Turnabout Is Foul Play” (?) – 12
Comic Cavalcade #22 (Aug.-Sept.) – “Beware the Ice Age” – 13
Flash Comics #81 (March) – “The Flash Plays Football” (?) – 12
Flash Comics #82 (April) – “Who Is Walter Jordan?” – 12
Flash Comics #83 (May) – “Twelve Jurors on Trial” – 12
Flash Comics #84 (June) – “The Changeling” – 12
Flash Comics #85 (July) – “Impressario of Crime” – 13
Flash Comics #86 (Aug.) – “The Stone Age Menace” – 13
Flash Comics #87 (Sept.) – “The Phantom Bell of the Bayous” (?) - 13
Flash Comics #88 (Oct.) – “The Case of the Vanished Year” - 13
Flash Comics #89 (Nov.)
– “Introducing The Thorn, The Flash’s Newest Opponent” – 12
Flash Comics #90 (Dec.) – “Nine Empty Uniforms” – 12
1948:
All-Flash #32 (Dec.-Jan.) – “The Amazing Star Sapphire” – 12
“Duet of Danger” – 13
Comic Cavalcade #24 (Dec.-Jan.) – “The Slow-Motion Crimes” – 12
Comic Cavalcade #25 (Feb-March) – “The Return of Kiua” (?) – 12
Comic Cavalcade #26 (April-May) – “Crime Has Many Faces” – 13
Comic Cavalcade #27 (June-July) – “The Trees of Terror” – 12
Comic Cavalcade #28 (Aug.-Sept.) – “The Flash Concerto” – 12
Comic Cavalcade #29 (Oct.-Nov.) – “The Last Man Alive” – 12
Flash Comics #93 (March) – “Violin of Villainy” – 12
Flash Comics #94 (April) – “Images of Doom” – 12
Flash Comics #96 (June) – “The Flash and the Thorn Stalk” – 12
Flash Comics #97 (July) – “The Dream That Didn’t Happen” – 12
[NOTE: Robin says the above list is probably incomplete; RK may
have written both earlier “Flash” stories, and other adventures
between Flash Comics #97 and #104, the series’ final issue. In DC’s
hardcover Flash Archives, Vol. 1, RK is given credit for the last
“Flash” solo tale printed in the Golden Age, in Flash Comics #104
(Feb. 1949), but Robin feels that story was not his. —Roy.]
1970:
The Flash #201 (Nov.) – “Finale for a Fiddler” – 7 (first publication of
a new story of G.A. Flash)
1971:
The Flash #205 (April) – “Journey into Danger” (?) – 12 (first publi-
cation of a previously unprinted story of G.A. Flash)
1995:
The Comics! #10 (Oct.) – “Strange Interlude” (written in 1948; previ-
ously unpublished except for two pages, which appeared in color in
Lois Lane #113 (Sept.-Oct. 1971; see p. 27 for details.)
[Continued on next page]
24 Robert Kanigher On Many Subjects–––Including (Very Briefly) Showcase # 4

Silver Age “Flash” Stories Scripted by Robert Kanigher

(list may not be quite complete):
Showcase #4 (Oct. 1956) – “Mystery of the Human Thunderbolt!” – 12
Showcase #8 (June 1957) – “The Secret of the Empty Box” – 12
Showcase #13 (April 1958) – “Around the World in 80 Minutes” – 14
Showcase #14 (June 1958) – “Giants of the Time World” – 13
The Flash #161 (May 1966) – “The Case of the Curious Costume” – 14
The Flash #192 (Nov. 1969) – “The Day The Flash Failed” – 23
The Flash #195 (March 1970) – “Fugitive from Blind Justice” – 16
The Flash #197 (May 1970) – “To the Nth Degree” – 7
The Flash #198 (June 1970)
– “No Sad Songs for the Scarlet Speedster” – 14
The Flash #199 (Aug. 1970) – “Flash? Death Calling” – 16
“The Explosive Heart of America” – 8
The Flash #200 (Sept. 1970) – “Count 200—and Die” – 23
The Flash #201 (Nov. 1970) – “Million Dollar Dream” – 15
The Flash #202 (Dec. 1970) – “The Satan Circle” – 15
The Flash #203 (Feb. 1971) – “The Flash’s Wife Is a Two-Timer” – 22
The Flash #204 (March 1971)
– “The Great Secret Identity Exposé” – 15
The Flash #206 (May 1971) – “24 Hours of Immortality” – 15
The Flash #208 (Aug. 1971)
– “A Kind of Miracle in Central City” – 14

2006:
Script excerpt from unpublished RK “Flash” story “Flash—Are You
Listening?” published in Robin Snyder’s The Comics! – May issue.

[NOTE: Of the story “To the Nth Degree,” Robin Snyder, who then
worked on staff at DC, writes: “I remember everybody and his
brother was raving about it at the time. [Gil] Kane was
the illustrator, and he was still excited about it over
lunch in the 1980s. Rightly so. An exceptional story.”]

…And Two More Of Silver!

(Above:) An action page from The Flash #192 story “To the Nth Degree,”
art by Kane & Colletta, script by RK. Thanks again to Bob Cherry.
[©2006 DC Comics.]
(Right:) A script page from Kanigher’s unpublished final “Flash” script,
“Flash—Are You Listening?” Courtesy of Robin Snyder, who informs us it
was written for then-editor Ernie Colón in 1982 and intended to be drawn
by Carmine Infantino. Hey, DC—Carmine’s still around and draws when he
feels like it! Why not get this story done, even at this late date? A/E readers
should check out the ad for Robin’s publication The Comics! on p. 22 to see
more of this script. [©2006 DC Comics.]
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Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part five 26

Now You
Don’t See
Him—Now
You Do!
The FLASH-y Disappearance And
Reappearance of JOE KUBERT, 1947
by Al Dellinges
J oe Kubert has gone on record more than once as saying that
he wound up inking the two “Flash” stories in Showcase #4
in 1956 merely because he happened to be around at the
right moment. And true it is that, when the character next
appeared eight months later, he was too busy with other assign-
ments to continue the on-again/off-again series. So we opted
instead to spotlight Kubert’s nearly-as-small body of work on the
Golden Age “Flash,” done circa 1947. And who better to put it in
context for us than Kubert fan supreme Al Dellinges? —Roy.
Sgt. Rock Jumped For Cover When He Saw Hawkman Coming
Many questions still remain unanswered about the sudden departure
(Above:) Several years ago, Joe Kubert drew a wonderful cover for a limited-
of DC’s latter-1940s “Hawkman” artist, Joe Kubert—who, at the peak
edition volume by Al Dellinges. We printed Joe’s illustration in A/E V3#4; here
of his game, disappeared like Houdini performing a magic trick. Even is a version which Al has altered somewhat by replacing the Sgt. Rock figure
the powers of the great Sherlock Holmes would have been challenged on the original with his own tracing of a 1946 Kubert Hawkman. Joe seldom
did even a spot illo of the Silver Age Flash; even here, he depicted only the
1940s version.[Art ©2006 Joe Kubert; DC heroes TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
(Left:) Well, at least the post-1956 Crimson Comet makes a (minuscule)
appearance on this cover Joe did some years back for a kids’ Super
Dictionary! [Heroes TM & ©2006 DC Comics; portrait ©2006 Joe Kubert.]

by the lack of evidence associated with this case.

I believe it’s fair to say that Kubert probably took the Golden Age
Hawkman character as far as it could possibly go, perfecting it with his
gorgeous illustration during his tenure. His work on the Winged
Wonder appeared in 15 consecutive issues of Flash Comics (#62-76)
and in 12 issues of All-Star Comics (#24-30) during the time period
1944-46.

But his “Hawkman” story in Flash Comics #76 was the last work of
his that would appear in a DC mag for nearly a year, except for the
Hawkman cover of #83, which looks as if drawn somewhat earlier.

His next published artwork for DC was the “Hawkman” tale in

Flash Comics #85 (July 1947)—in my view, not his best work, but he
was back! Precisely what Joe was drawing, and for which companies,
during much of the preceding year seems a bit vague. Joe maintains he
has no memory that there was ever a period of a year or more when he
didn’t work for DC after doing his first art for the company in early
1944 (a “Dr. Fate” chapter in All-Star Comics #21)—although, during
this time, he did turn out some superb art jobs for Avon Publishing
Company: two Western stories for Cow Puncher Comics and an
adventure story for Eerie Comics.
 Now You Don’t See Him–––Now You Do! 27

But that changed a bit when Joe Kubert became involved with the
character in Flash Comics #86. Surprisingly, for that issue, Kubert illus-
trated both “The Flash” and “Hawkman” stories, as well as the cover,
which in this case featured the Scarlet Speedster. (Flash and Hawkman
generally appeared on alternating Flash covers.)

Up to this point, the “Flash” feature had always had a kind of

“cartoony” look, while both Moldoff’s and Kubert’s versions of
Hawkman were more accurately proportioned, anatomically, as well as
infinitely more dramatically posed. In addition, both always interjected
a sense of realism into the feature. After Kubert, while stories drawn by
Hibbard and Naydel continued to appear from time to time (probably
from inventory), “The Flash” was drawn mostly by a new breed of
artist, represented by Lee Elias and, prophetically, Carmine Infantino.

Although none of Kubert’s “Flash” forays was signed as many of his

“Hawkman” tales were, Joe drew five “Flash” stories in the 1947-48
period; all of these, later analysis indicates, were scripted by Robert
Kanigher. Four were published in Flash Comics, two of them featuring
the dual menace of Rose and The Thorn. Their fifth “Flash” tale
together, a third Rose and Thorn encounter, was shelved when the
magazine was canceled. It only turned up decades years later in Robin
Snyder’s newsletter History of the Comics (now The Comics!).

But the question remains unanswered: Why did Joe Kubert leave
DC for more than a year’s worth of issues—where did he go—

And why did he draw not only “Hawkman” but also nearly half a
dozen “Flash” stories when he abruptly returned?

Well, whatever the ultimate answer, at least Joe got in a bit of

practice on the Fastest Man Alive—practice which served him in good
stead, when he was tapped in 1956 to ink Carmine Infantino’s pencils
on the first two tales of the Silver Age “Flash” in Showcase #4!
If This Is A “Stone Age Menace,” Then Where’s Tor? NOTE: More Golden Age “Flash” art by Kubert follows on the next
Kubert’s debut on “The Flash” appeared in Flash Comics #86 (Aug. 1947), two pages....
with the above splash page doing double duty as the cover—only
“flopped,” so that on the latter the Scarlet Speedster is rushing in from the
left. (The lightning bolt symbol on his chest was reversed, as well.) Joe has
said editors liked to have the hero placed on the left on covers, since comics
were often stuck on newsstand shelves with only their left sides visible.
Notice that, according to its “job number” at lower right (“AF 32 A”), this
tale was originally scheduled to appear as the lead story in All-Flash #32,
the mag devoted entirely to his adventures. We figured we’d also show you
how the hero defeated the (robot) dinosaur on the story’s final page, seen
at right. [©2006 DC Comics.]

During Kubert’s absence, “Hawkman” was mostly illustrated in

Flash Comics by Chester Kozlak, with one story each as well by Paul
Reinman, Everett Raymond Kinstler, and Bob Oksner. Kozlak also
drew the only two non-Kubert “Hawkman” segments in the “Justice
Society” stories in All-Star Comics (#31-32) that were done after
Kubert replaced Sheldon Moldoff as artist in 1944. (That’s a lapse of
only four to six months, not a year, in All-Star; but then, we now
know that numerous issues of the JSA’s quarterly/bimonthly magazine
were published out of order, and that #30 in particular had sat on the
shelf for a year and a half before being used, thus eating up some of
that slack time.)

The Golden Age “Flash” series, from its inception, had evolved a
style all its own. In my mind, most of the artists who worked on the
feature pretty much retained the original look, almost as if the same
artist were doing all the stories, when in fact there were a number of
different artists who worked on the Fastest Man Alive during the
period 1940-46. The most notable of these were co-creator Harry
Lampert, longtime regular E.E. Hibbard, Hal Sharp, Martin Naydel,
and (only once, in a Wheaties giveaway) Irwin Hasen.
28 The Flash-y Disappearance And Reappearance Of Joe Kubert, 1947

It Was A Very Good Year

(Above:) Once again, for Flash Comics #88 (Oct. 1947), Kubert’s splash was also used as the cover; but this time, since the hero was
already racing in from the left, the art wasn’t “flopped” there. On p. 8, Jay Garrick discovers he’s “gone backwards a whole year in my
life”—to 1946! Hey, maybe he could’ve found out what Joe K. was drawing all those months he wasn’t doing anything for National/DC!
[©2006 DC Comics.]

A Rose By Any
Other Name
With super-heroes’
sales in decline, or
at least
stagnating, editor
Shelly Mayer once
again used a
Kubert splash as
the cover in Flash
Comics #89 (Nov.
1947). It was
probably a cost-
saving measure.
At story’s end, it
was clear to the
readers, if not to
the hero, that The
Thorn had
survived, since she
was actually an
alternate persona
of her “sister”
Rose. It was rare,
in the Golden Age,
for a villain to
“escape” at the
end of a tale.
[©2006
DC Comics.]
 Now You Don’t See Him–––Now You Do! 29

“The Flash And The Thorn-Stalk!”

Since we ran the splash for this second Thorn foray back in A/E V3#4,
above, at right, and below are 2+ action pages therefrom. Reportedly,
co-publisher Jack Liebowitz decided her costume in her previous
outing had been “too sexy.” So Joe had to give her a more sedate one
in Flash Comics #96 (June 1948), complete with jodhpurs.
Barbara Stanwyck or Joan Crawford would’ve made a perfect Thorn!
[©2006 DC Comics.]

The fifth and final Kubert-and-Kanigher “Flash” (see panel directly

above) was never printed by DC, and was probably destroyed in the
late 1960s along with other art that had been “written off” for tax
purposes on Sept. 30, 1949, some months after Flash Comics was
canceled. But, happily, E. Nelson Bridwell, then editor of Superman’s
Girlfriend Lois Lane, saved photocopies of the entire story and
printed its two final pages in LL #113 (Sept.-Oct. 1971), after
launching a new version of “Rose and The Thorn” written by
Kanigher and drawn by Ross Andru and Mike Esposito.
Thanks to Robin Snyder for the above information. See
Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #4, and other early issues for more art
from that final Kubert “Flash” adventure.
Celebrating SHOWCASE #4, 1956! part six 30

“I Think I Was A Natural-

Born Comic Writer”
JOHN BROOME In San Diego, 1998—With MARK EVANIER,
JULIUS SCHWARTZ, MURPHY ANDERSON, & MIKE W. BARR
Recorded, Transcribed, & Photographed by Don Ensign
A/E EDITOR’S
NOTE: The
following panel
JULIUS SCHWARTZ: [South Seas magazine] was
edited by Ray Palmer—who was the real Atom.
[NOTE: In 1961 editor Schwartz named the Silver
took place at the Age Atom’s secret identity after a real-life science-
San Diego Comic-Con on Aug. 14, 1998, fiction writer who was quite short. “Lance
to (ahem!) showcase writer John O’Casey” was a regular feature in Fawcett’s Whiz
Broome, who was making his first Comics. –Roy.]
appearance ever at a comics convention.
Mark Evanier, writer for TV and EVANIER: At that time you wanted to write
comics, was the moderator. Also on the professionally and write comics.
podium were Julius Schwartz, original BROOME: I think I realized that I wasn’t good
editor of the Silver Age “Flash” and enough to be a real top-notch science-fiction writer.
“Green Lantern” features, among You know, these things happen. You just want to be
others—artist Murphy Anderson, who something and you don’t get to be it. Your wishes are
often inked Flash and Green Lantern completely disregarded by somebody who regulates
material, and also drew the Broome- these things. [audience laughs] And so when I found
scripted “Captain Comet” and “Atomic out that I could make money in comics, I became a
Knights” features—and later comics comics writer.
writer & editor Mike W. Barr. Don
Ensign’s transcript of this panel first A New-Flash Broome Sweeps Clean! SCHWARTZ: I must interrupt, Mr. Broome. I was
appeared in full in Gene Kehoe’s It’s a John Broome on the panel in his honor at the 1998 your agent for a while and I sold at least 12 science-
Fanzine #48 (Winter 1998-99). Another San Diego Comic-Con—juxtaposed with a super- fiction stories. That’s not too bad!
version of the panel appeared in The speed action sequence from his very first “New
Comics Buyer’s Guide. Our thanks to Flash” story, in Showcase #4. Art by Carmine BROOME: Not too bad. But they weren’t very good.
Brian K. Morris for retyping the Infantino & Joe Kubert, who else? [Photo ©2006
Don Ensign; page ©2006 DC Comics.] SCHWARTZ: I sold them—they must have been
manuscript. We’d have loved to append
a “John Broome Checklist,” and hope to
print one in the near future; but there just wasn’t room this time
around. For more info about Gene Kehoe’s It’s a Fanzine, contact
him at fangene@aol.com. We thank him and Don for their blessing
in reprinting this landmark interview.

‘I Wasn’t Good Enough To Be A Real

Top-Notch Science-Fiction Writer”
MARK EVANIER: You have an enormous number of fans out here.
We have all loved your work for many years, and I can’t tell you
how much I have stolen from you over the years. [laughs] I want to
go back to the earliest part of your career. I believe the first comics
you wrote were for Fawcett. What was the first?

JOHN BROOME: I remember the very first one—I don’t remember

much after that. [laughs] If I’m correct, and I might not be entirely
correct, because that has been a long, long time ago, the first one
wasn’t a super-hero at all, but was an ordinary guy in the South Seas
called Lance O’Casey. It was just an adventure story, just like you
might read in the South Seas magazine.
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 31

Dais Ex Machina
great. [audience laughs] the conclusion that it was a
We don’t have any photos of the entire grouping from the actual 1998
good friend of John’s—I think he
BROOME: You were one salesman! panel, so we’ll show you its peerless personnel in palpitating pieces.
(Left to right:) Mark Evanier from an earlier con… Murphy Anderson went to Brooklyn College with
EVANIER: What were your influ- and Julie Schwartz, on the 1998 one… and John Broome and Mike W. you—named David Levine at that
ences as a writer? What did you time. Then he changed his name to
Barr, in a photo taken later that day. (Mike didn’t speak on the panel,
read that excited you? but later recorded his own interview with Broome, which was printed David Vern and wrote science-fiction
in Comic Book Artist #5.) Anderson-Schwartz photo by Don Ensign, and many comics under the name of
BROOME: I read everything. I read Broome-Barr photo by Maureen McTigue; with thanks to Mike. David V. Reed. Also, David knew
everything. I was a reader. I wasn’t a [DC editor] Mort Weisinger, and he
writer, I was a reader! I loved reading. I loved them all. All the great came up and did some comics and he brought John along. This is about
writers—H.G. Wells, Bernard Shaw, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky. All of them. as close as we can get.
I read them all. That had nothing to do with my comics career. Comics
is a very special field. And somehow, it suited me. That was what made BROOME: This is so long ago it is very hard to come up with details
me realize that somehow I was being cared over by something, from that period. Especially when we were so young, we just didn’t
somebody, somewhere. Somebody was taking care of me! I realized think about things like we do now.
that all of a sudden—later on, it became more obvious. But at that time EVANIER: Did you do any super-hero stuff at Fawcett?
it was the first inkling that I wasn’t going to have to go out and hold
out a tin cup in order to make my dinner. I could make my money BROOME: Yeah, I did “Captain Marvel.” I know I did “Captain
writing comics. That was the big event of my life! Marvel.” Captain Marvel was a good character. He wasn’t up to
Superman or Batman, but he was a good character.

“I Heard That Fawcett Was Publishing Comic Books”

EVANIER: What was your first page rate?
BROOME: A dollar a page. [audience laughs] Julie, is that right?
SCHWARTZ: Not at DC—I beg your pardon. [laughs]
EVANIER: You worked for Fawcett. How did you get into Fawcett?
BROOME: That’s a good question. I think I heard that Fawcett was
publishing comic books.
SCHWARTZ: Was it through Otto Binder?
BROOME: No, I’m quite sure it wasn’t. I knew Rod Reed. Maybe
Rod Reed told me.
SCHWARTZ: Rod Reed was the editor-in-chief over at Fawcett at the
time.
BROOME: Then there was someone named Wendell Crowley who
was editor at Fawcett, and somehow I got the chance to try out. To
write a story and have it looked at. From then on it went like that.
EVANIER: Was this before or after you sold the science-fiction
stories?
BROOME: I think it was right in the middle of it.
SCHWARTZ: Yeah, right. I think he was doing both.
BROOME: Julie and I were trying to figure out when we first met.
SCHWARTZ: Not just when, but who first introduced us. We came to
“I Immediately Put John On ‘Green Lantern’”
EVANIER: How did you get from Fawcett to DC?
BROOME: Julie, whom I was getting to know fairly well. Then the
Army intervened. I was in the army for 2H years. After I came out,
Julie was already established as an editor at DC, so all I did was to go
up to Julie and start writing.
SCHWARTZ: That’s not quite right. [audience laughs] When Alfred
Bester, who got me my job at DC—or All-American, in that case—
when Alfred Bester left, and he was writing “Green Lantern,” I
persuaded a science-fiction writer named Henry Kuttner to do some
“Green Lantern.” Which he did for a while, and then he decided to
move on. I was doing fairly well with John on science-fiction. I said,
“How about trying some comics?” That is about the most reasonable
explanation I can think of.
BROOME: Do you remember some editor of Amazing Stories, I
think, or Astounding, [who,] when he read one of my stories, said,
“This guy’s science is terrible!” Remember that?
SCHWARTZ: No.
BROOME: You sent him the stories and he told you, “This guy’s
science is terrible.” Well, I never claimed to be a great scientist!
[audience laughs]
SCHWARTZ: But I bet I sold the story anyway! So, I think, I immedi-
ately put John on “Green Lantern” because I needed someone. And
eventually he did some occasional “Flashes,” but the main thing he did,
as far as I was concerned—he took over the stories that were appearing
32 “I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer”

in All-Star Comics that dealt with “The

Justice Society of America.” He wrote many
of the later stories before the magazine was
discontinued. I hope there is an expert in
here. I said to John, I think you did a
backup story in All-Star Comics about a girl
in the future called “Astra.” Does anyone
know anything about that?... Oh, Mark
Waid… oh, okay. [audience laughs] Tell us
about it. [audience laughs, as comics writer
Mark Waid comes up to the platform]

MARK WAID: That was actually in

Sensation Comics.

SCHWARTZ: Oh, really?!

WAID: Yeah. [Panelists look at a copy of an issue of Sensation

Comics with “Astra” provided by Mark Waid.]

SCHWARTZ: That was a forgotten gem.

EVANIER: Now, since you started working for DC, did you work
for any other comic book companies in that time?

A Best(er)-Selling Author
Alfred Bester, later the acclaimed author of the science-fiction masterworks
The Demolished Man and The Stars, My Destination, wrote numerous “Green
Lantern” stories in the mid-1940s… including the one in All-American Comics
#61 (Oct. 1944) that introduced the monstrous Solomon Grundy. The photo of
Bester appeared in James Gunn’s excellent 1975 book Alternate Worlds: The
Illustrated History of Science Fiction. [©2006 DC Comics.]

BROOME: Any other comic book companies?

SCHWARTZ: The answer is no. No, you worked exclusively with DC

once you got started.

BROOME: I wanted to make sure my answer was true. I don’t know. I

don’t think so. Julie?

SCHWARTZ: You may have written an occasional story for Mort

Weisinger or Jack Schiff. Once he got started at DC, he was treated
very well. He got a fairly good rate, as high as any in the field, and he
was—that was it.

EVANIER: Now, John, in the 1950s you wrote the Nero Wolfe
comic strip, right?

BROOME: That’s right. Is anyone going to ask me about the first

[comic book] union that ever existed?

Astra Projection
Julie Schwartz credited John Broome with writing (probably from the start
in #99) the “Astra” feature in late issues of Sensation Comics, when she and
other female headliners replaced the other features backing up “Wonder
Woman.” This splash from #106 (Nov.-Dec. 1951), apparently penciled by Gil
Kane, is from a scan sent by Michael Feldman. With #107, the comic was
briefly given over to vaguely supernatural stories and became Sensation
Mystery before being canceled outright. [©2006 DC Comics.]
“I Went For The Money… But I Did The Best I Could”
EVANIER: We’ll get to that. [audience laughs] Let’s discuss the way
you worked with Julie. Tell us first how many pages did you write a
week?
BROOME: I think I did enough to make a living. As I said, I wrote for
money. I don’t want to disguise it. I wasn’t working to try and make a
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 33

lot of friends. I seem to have a lot of friends—I didn’t work for that. I
went for the money. But I did the best I could. And Julie and I turned
out to be a good team. We complemented each other, we supplemented
each other, and I could always rely on him to have a good reaction to
any ideas that I would bring up. People would often ask me, “Where
do you get the ideas?” Well, I don’t think any comic writer can ever tell
you where ideas come from. If you are a comics writer you get ideas—
that’s your business, to get ideas. I remember I got the idea for the
Guardians of the Universe. That was an idea. I knew that they didn’t
exist. As far as I know they didn’t exist. [audience laughs] That didn’t
keep me from writing about them. That was a kind of an idea. That is
what the stories were based on—ideas.

SCHWARTZ: That originated in a science-fiction story, I believe, that

appeared in either Strange Adventures or Mystery in Space. It was
called “Guardians of the Clockwork Universe”... the first one... and
that eventually led into the Guardians that appeared in the Green
Lantern series. Incidentally, why do aliens have to look different from
the way we do? Maybe in this particular universe all the aliens looked
alike, and the Guardians of the Universe were all based on one
character, the prime minister of Israel, Abin Sur.

MARK WAID: No, not Abin Sur—Ben Gurion.

SCHWARTZ: Oh, right! [audience laughs]

EVANIER: Abin Sur was the first Green Lantern, Julie. [to
Broome] Would you describe for us what it was like to work with
Julie in the typical session? You would come in in the morning and
he would tell you what he needed?

SCHWARTZ: He would probably say, “What are you going to have

for lunch!” [audience laughs]

BROOME: He would say what he needed. For example, he would say,

“I need a 12-page story—“Flash” or “Green Lantern.” We always knew
the number of pages ahead of time. That was very important. And an
idea for a story had to be bigger for 12 pages than for 6 or 8. You had
to get the right kind of idea for the length of the story. And that came
with practice. With practice you were able to do that.
“I Think Sometimes I Was Inventing A Film”
SCHWARTZ: Well, of course, we came up with the idea of having the
cover first. We had a provocative cover, and it was a challenge to us to
look at the cover and figure out how a thing like that happened. A
typical example was the Flash cover in which there was a red back-
ground in which The Flash was holding up a big hand toward the
reader and the copy read, “Stop! Don’t pass up this magazine! My life
depends on it!” [audience laughs] We worked it out and it became a
beautiful story. Another reason, incidentally, why we had the cover
done first: after the artwork was done, there might not be a decent
cover scene in it. So it was much better to get the cover beforehand. It
was in our interest to work out ideas based on a provocative cover.
Poor Murphy, poor Gil Kane, poor Carmine Infantino, poor Mike
Sekowsky would pace up and down trying to think up an original
cover idea. Sometime nothing came out and sometime you’d get three
or four. And every once in a while I’d present the cover to John: “OK,
let’s solve it.” And it was a lot of fun. We had a great time doing it.
BROOME: That’s right, the cover sometimes provided the story in a
sketchy kind of way. Then I’d work out some kind of understanding or
explanation of the cover. The cover usually presented some kind of
mystery. Something was happening, someone was getting poisoned or
frozen or killed or something like that. I think sometimes I was
inventing a film.
SCHWARTZ: Yes, right, in color.
Must Be Accompanied By A Parent Or Guardian
John Broome (writer), Murphy Anderson (artist), and Julie Schwartz
(editor) were the ongoing team on the “Captain Comet” feature. In issue
#22 (July 1952), they introduced “The Guardians of the Clockwork Universe”
in a story of that name. On this page, Comet—a mutant born 100,000 years
ahead of his time—is taken to meet that group. Note that the word
“Clockwork” has been dropped in the actual story, making their name
identical to the one Broome would use a decade later in the Silver Age
“Green Lantern” series. [©2006 DC Comics.]
BROOME: That was almost my specialty. I didn’t invent any of the
main characters. I didn’t invent Batman. Of course, I didn’t invent
Superman. Everybody knows who invented Superman. But I did invent
many villains.
SCHWARTZ: Exactly. In fact it was John who suggested—now when I
think about it—when we started The Flash on a regular basis, he told
me, “I want villains. I’m going to create a Rogues’ Gallery.” Remember
that? We had crazy ones like The Top... the guy would spin like a top
and things would happen. We had Mirror Master; he would go into the
mirror world. We had Captain Boomerang, who would throw those
things around. We had a lot of fun. There would be good action in the
story, because of these colorful villains. John did them all. He did them
all! [audience applause]
EVANIER: Julie would tell you he needed a 12-page “Flash” and
then you would start throwing ideas around, back and forth. You
would come up with ideas, and then he would come up with ideas.
BROOME: Yeah. I would usually have a day or two, because he would
contact me by telephone or some way like that and give me a little
time. And in a day or two, I would come in with some ideas for a story.
34 “I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer”
Two-Way Two-Lane Blacktop
One super-speed “gimmick” Schwartz and/or Broome dreamed up involved
the hero’s heating a blacktop road to ensnare a criminal—then freezing his
feet fast in that same substance. From The Flash #146 (Aug. 1964). Repro’d
from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Edwin & Terry Murray.
[©2006 DC Comics.]
I might have several ideas, and he would pick one of them. He’d say,
“Let’s do this,” or “I think this might work.” Something like that. He
knew what was good and what wasn’t. So in that way we could get
started. Then we began the most intricate or interesting part of our
meeting, which was the plot.
SCHWARTZ: Oh, no—where are we going to have lunch!!? [audience
laughs]
BROOME: Where are we going to have lunch? [laughs]
EVANIER: After you settle lunch... you’d talk through the plot,
you’d take notes?
SCHWARTZ: John never took any notes.
EVANIER: He would go home and write the script in a couple of
days.
BROOME: Maybe two or three, maybe a week.
SCHWARTZ: No, let me interrupt again. John would say, “When do
you want the story?” I’d say, “Wednesday,” for example. He’d come in
Wednesday and have the story done, and the beautiful part was, I had
the check ready for him. In Mort Weisinger’s case and Jack Schiff, you
ordered the story and he said, “OK, we’ll bounce a check,” and make
you wait a few days to a week. But my writers—when I knew they
were coming in on time or the artwork also—the check was waiting in
my drawer. And that is why most preferred to work for me. [audience
laughs and claps]
MURPHY ANDERSON: Not true. [audience laughs] That was a
factor, but that was not the big thing.
SCHWARTZ: Is that all you say?! [audience laughs]
“I Would Admire My Own Work!”
EVANIER: Julie, how often did you want rewrites on these scripts?
SCHWARTZ: When the rewriting had to be done, I did it. Yes, I
would say, “John, I didn’t like this.” I would rewrite it myself. John—
very little rewriting. Gardner Fox—quite a bit. It would be easier for
me to do it than try to explain. A terrible example of that was Gardner
Fox. He brought in [one] story we had plotted and I said, “Oh, my
God, there’s a hole in the story,” and Gardner said, “I know it.” I said.
“Why did you write it that way?” And he said, “That’s the way we
plotted it!” [audience laughs] When Gardner left, I made him
[indicates John Broome] sit in the bullpen there and write out the plot
and I would check it over. John always brought it in on time and with
very little rewriting.
ANDERSON: I can attest to that. I’d get John’s scripts and there
would hardly be any editing at all. But with Gardner it sometimes took
quite a bit of figuring out.
SCHWARTZ: With all the scrawls.
EVANIER: Did you read the comics? Study them at all?
BROOME: I think I did in the beginning. Yeah, I used to read all the
writers. Find out what they were doing and maybe learn from them.
EVANIER: Do you like the way your strips were illustrated?
BROOME: Yes, I think so. I found that DC had good artists and they
did a good job of illustrating the story. I think so. As I said, this is all
long, long ago.
SCHWARTZ: I never thought to ask. After the story appeared in
print, did you look at it? Did you re-read it after it had been in print?
BROOME: Sometimes I would re-read it. I would admire my own
work! [audience laughs] I worked on a kind of philosophy of comics. I
said that “The essential of comics is a gimmick that works. A
gimmick!” And Shelly Mayer, who was my editor sometime before
Julie at DC... Shelly Mayer said about me... I’m boasting a little now,
because I don’t have much chance to boast, but this is one chance
[audience laughs]... he said he never came across a writer who, when
he hit it—that is, when the gimmick was operating—when he hit it, he
never came across a writer who hit it as hard as I did. [audience
applauds] I would work up a kind of a curve of [an] idea. It would
start off low and finally, all of a sudden, pow! That is what I prided
myself on when writing the story.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Were you familiar with “Batman”
before you wrote him in 1964?
BROOME: Sure, sure. I wrote “Batman” for Mort Weisinger.
[NOTE: Does Broome mean Jack Shiff? —Roy.]
EVANIER: When was that?
BROOME: That was before Julie took over.
SCHWARTZ: How well John knew “Batman” and how well I didn’t
know it became apparent in the first story that appeared. I was looking
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 35

Going To The Dogs—Among Other Species

Two oddball features that Broome wrote were “Rex the Wonder Dog” and “Detective Chimp,” both of which appeared in the former’s title. Gil Kane penciled
most “Rex” stories after the early ones by Alex Toth—and Carmine Infantino, who says “Chimp” was his favorite feature to draw, got to both pencil and ink
that series. Both these pages are from Rex the Wonder Dog #43 (Jan.-Feb. 1959); the splash of the “Rex” story was seen in A/E #32. John Broome’s favorite
feature to script, though, was Hopalong Cassidy. [©2006 DC Comics.]

over it with you today, or with someone, and we pointed out the error,
the first error: Batman was on the hunt for the villain during the
daytime. The second horrible thing was when Batman caught up with
the villain and overcame him. He pulled a gun on him and held him at
bay. Neither one realized that Batman didn’t use a gun. But we learned
quickly. I introduced what was called the “New Look” Batman. I put a
yellow circle around the Batman [emblem]. We introduced things, a
new Batmobile, new way to get down to the Batcave, and so on. And
we had a great time doing it. I brought back the villains that Jack Schiff
had neglected to put in. Thankfully, it worked out to where we brought
back The Joker, The Riddler, and Penguin, and those were the stories
that prompted Bill Dozier at 20th Century-Fox to do the Batman
television series.
EVANIER: Rich, have you figured out which stories John wrote for
“Batman”? [Audience participation here is difficult to understand.]
That was Rich Morrissey, who was responsible for getting John here
this year. [audience applauds] All right now, you wrote Westerns,
science-fiction stories, super-heroes. What was your favorite? Did
you have a favorite? Favorite genre—Rex the Wonder Dog?
[laughs]
BROOME: “Detective Chimp.” Rex the Wonder Dog was an impor-
tant character. I remember being in someplace like St. Tropez and
writing “Rex the Wonder Dog” or “Detective Chimp,” and it seemed a
little odd that I should be writing things like that in such a setting. But
that was OK. I did the best I could, anyway.
EVANIER: No preference for any type of story?
BROOME: Yes, I think I prefer “Hopalong Cassidy.”
EVANIER: Did you prefer to write stories with continuing charac-
ters, or the one-shot science-fiction stories?
BROOME: I liked writing “Hopalong Cassidy,” because I could work
a more human kind of story into these. I can remember telling Dave
Berg, who I spoke with a few minutes ago—giving him some advice
about breaking into comic books. Start with the character, I told him,
start with the character. So when I was writing “Hopalong Cassidy,” I
would think of some doctor who has a problem, some lawyer who has
a problem—something simple. And work out from there. That is the
way I enjoyed doing it.
“The Atomic Knights”
EVANIER: Let’s talk about some specific strips. Let’s start with
“The Atomic Knights.” What do you remember about how that strip
came to be? How did it start, how was it created?
BROOME: I think Julie and I talked it over. We wanted to make a new
36 “I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer”
comic series of stories, and one of us...
SCHWARTZ: I think we anticipated what would happen after the next
world war. World War III. What would happen. And then we dealt
with the radiation, and one of us came up with the idea—maybe
wearing armor would shield them. John [or I] had the wonderful idea
of them going from city to city trying to find survivors and having a
different adventure—the highlight of which took place in New
Orleans. John and I were both crazy-wild about New Orleans jazz. We
worked out the whole sequence and Murphy—tell them want
happened—well, I’ll explain. [audience laughs] He’ll tell you the
sequence. After the story appeared, I got a letter from the New Orleans
Jazz Museum, who loved the artwork. Could they possibly have it to
display in the New Orleans Jazz Museum? Of course, we sent it to
them. And when Murphy and Helen [Murphy’s wife] went down...
ANDERSON: Anyhow, she went down with my daughter to a beauty
convention. Helen had a little time on her hands, so I said to her, “If
you have time, why don’t you see if you can find the museum and see
if they actually have the artwork in [it].” And after some trial... I think
the museum had moved or something and she finally tracked them
down... and when she walked into the vestibule, or whatever you call it,
of the museum... lo and behold! On a case, there was an “Atomic
Knights” story. It’s still there, as far as I know.
There Weren’t A Thousand And One Atomic Knights, But…
This first “Atomic Knights” story, by Broome and Anderson, appeared in
Strange Adventures #117 (June 1960). The series has had a cult following
ever since. This origin was reprinted in the Mike Uslan-edited trade
paperback Mysteries in Space from Simon & Schuster in 1980. Strange to
say, there are two totally different tp’s with that same title—each
containing science-fiction stories published by DC! [©2006 DC Comics.]
EVANIER: What do you remember about drawing “The Atomic
Knights”?
BROOME: I remember, in the beginning, we both got the feeling that
it had something to do with King Arthur and the Knights of the Round
Table. We thought, if we could make a modern version of the spirit and
the feeling of the Knights of the Round Table, that would be a new
kind of comic that hadn’t been done. And [we] would enjoy doing it.
So we worked out a Third World War where everything was destroyed,
where life was almost destroyed and crime was dangerous and rife all
over. And The Atomic Knights stand for justice and faith and all that.
So that is the way the story began.
EVANIER: Murphy, do you remember starting out on “The Atomic
Knights”? Was it one of your favorite assignments?
ANDERSON: Oh, yes, I remember. Yes, that is something I really
enjoyed doing. Except it was a backbreaker, and I was thankful it only
appeared every three months.
EVANIER: Julie, what was the thought behind rotating the strips in
Strange Adventures—“Space Museum,” “Star Hawkins,” “Star
Rovers”—rotating them?
SCHWARTZ: All I can say is, when I read science-fiction with a series
of stories about one character, the same character, I always looked
forward to reading it.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: While we are on the topic of The Atomic
Knights, I just have to know this. Where did you get the idea for the
giant Dalmatians? [audience laughs]
BROOME: That was one of the stories?? [audience laughs] That’s
been long ago! Sorry.
“Flash Was A Good Character For A Writer To Write”
EVANIER: Let’s start on the book [The] Flash. You did an awful lot
of “Flash” stories. You took it over after Robert Kanigher, and one
day Julie called you in and said, “I want you to write ‘The Flash.’”
Special assignment. Did you like this?
BROOME: Sure.
SCHWARTZ: Now, wait a second, I think you may have it wrong. I
think the first story was written by Kanigher, but the backup story was
written by John Broome. So John immediately started writing for
“The Flash.” When Kanigher was no longer available, or whatever, I
said “John, you are doing all the ‘Flash’ stories.”
BROOME: Flash was a good character for a writer to write, because he
had a wonderful talent—his ability to go at express-train speeds.
SCHWARTZ: What do you mean? Fast as light! We thought of scien-
tific things to do. Whirling around and stopping storms. He could walk
on water, vibrate through walls. That was the fun of doing it.
BROOME: Yes, there [were] many different aspects of his speed that
could be turned into different ways of using his speed. That made it
more interesting for a writer than one simple ability. Green Lantern—
he only had the ring—he couldn’t do anything else. [audience laughs]
SCHWARTZ: I beg your pardon?!
EVANIER: Do you remember any ‘Flash’ stories that stand out—
that you were especially proud of?
SCHWARTZ: John, I would have a question, I don’t recall the details.
We were thinking about coming up with a new character, and one of us
came up with the idea of a super type of a person who would be born
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 37

EVANIER: How about the villains? Favorite villains?

BROOME: Oh, yeah. I’m afraid I’ll get it mixed up with “Green
Lantern.” Captain Cold.

SCHWARTZ: And, of course, Heatwave. If you have cold, you have

to have heat. The craziest villain—and I don’t know how I okayed it; it
could be me who thought of it—and it was great—was The Top. And
they would spin a top and strange things would happen. Wild idea. We
were desperate at that point! [audience laughs]

EVANIER: What do you remember about The Elongated Man?

BROOME: Everything he did, he could elongate himself, that’s all I

can remember.

SCHWARTZ: We came up with a thing called Gingrich. [audience

laughs] [A/E NOTE: The actual name of the substance was
“Gingold.”] We liked the idea that Ralph Dibny, The Elongated Man,
was a braggart. He entered the country from Canada and he said he
was Ralph Dibny and they said they didn’t know who he was. “I’m
The Elongated Man.” So one day, they decided to get married and
announced it to the world that The Elongated Man married... whatever
her name was.

Destination Down Under

A “Captain Comet” splash reprinted from an Australian b&w reprint,
with thanks to Shane Foley. In fact, this story must have been reprinted
from a US reprint, since Broome’s and Anderson’s names were never on
the original 1950s versions. Many of the early stories did sport the fictitious
byline “Edgar Ray Merritt”—but they were all written by Broome.
[©2006 DC Comics.]

100,000 years ahead of his time. Do you remember that one? I said,
“How would he get his powers?” And “I” could be John or me. What
would happen if a comet went through the sky at that point, and what
would happen and would give him strange powers [so he] would be
called a man born 100,000 years ahead of his own time? And that was
the origin of Captain Comet.

BROOME: It could be. Sounds right. [audience laughs]

SCHWARTZ: We shot ideas back and forth.

AUDIENCE COMMENT: Murphy drew that one, too.

SCHWARTZ: Yes, that’s true. He was the first mutant. Incidentally, we

called him the man born 100,000 years ahead his time. He was the first
mutant, so we scooped Marvel on that, too. [audience laughs and
applauds] [NOTE: Carmine Infantino penciled the first two
“Captain Comet” stories in Strange Adventures #9-10 (June & July
1951); Anderson and others drew him later. —Roy.]
EVANIER: Do you remember any ‘Flash’ stories that stand out that
you liked?
BROOME: No, I can’t say that I do.
Rogues’ Gallery In The Art Gallery
In 1998 Carmine Infantino drew this (full-color) re-creation of his classic
cover for The Flash #174 (Nov. 1967), which depicted several of the villains
of the Rogues’ Gallery which he and John Broome had created for the mag
with Julie Schwartz’s input. It was sold via All Star Auctions (see p. 25 for
their display ad.) At the time the piece was estimated to sell in the $2500-
$3500 range; it’s probably worth a wee bit more nowadays. Thanks to
Joe & Nadia Mannarino. [Characters TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
38 “I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer”
“Green Lantern Was Personally More My Character”
EVANIER: Sue. What do you remember about Green Lantern?
BROOME: Green Lantern was personally more my character. I never
really felt that way about The Flash. But I felt that way about Green
Lantern. That’s it. I wrote most of the main stories about Green
Lantern, so I felt he was my character. And... sorry, once again it is very
hard to remember individual stories.
SCHWARTZ: We had a thing about origins about this wonderful
Power Ring. You, I’m sure, came up with the idea of one of the Green
Lantern Corps crash-landing on Earth and desperately trying to find
someone born without fear [to] whom he can pass the ring, and he
latched on to Hal Jordan. And that’s how the ring was passed to Hal
Jordan. From Abin Sur to Hal Jordan. At that point, we knew nothing
about the Guardians of the Universe—that came in later. The terrible
flaw was, why would Abin Sur, who was a Green Lantern, be
hampered by the radiation of the sun?
EVANIER: Why was he in the spaceship?
SCHWARTZ: Yes, why was he in the spaceship when he was a Green
“He Only Had The Ring—He Couldn’t Do Anything Else”
So says John Broome at one point about the Silver Age GL he had co-created.
Somehow, though, the Emerald Gladiator always squeaked by. This page
from Green Lantern #24 (Oct. 1963), penciled by Gil Kane and inked by
Joe Giella, is repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of
Edwin & Terry Murray. [©2006 DC Comics.]
Lantern and could fly through space without any problem? Whether
we ever had an explanation for that later on, I didn’t know?
AUDIENCE [DON ENSIGN]: Yes, you did—GL #16 [October
1962].
EVANIER: The original Green Lantern, whom you also wrote, was
more of a supernatural character. That was deliberate, I assume, to
make him more of a...
SCHWARTZ: I had nothing to do with the origin of the Golden Age
Green Lantern.
EVANIER: Right, but you decided to go with the science-fiction
emphasis in the 1960s.
SCHWARTZ: Oh, yes, everything I did was based on my reading and
knowledge of science-fiction—including Adam Strange, which was
strictly a science-fiction character.
BROOME: What were the creatures of the Golden Universe called
again?
SCHWARTZ: You talking about Qward?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Maybe you are talking about] a story
called “Secret of the Golden Universe”? This was a “Justice Society”
story back in the 1940s where the universe was gold and the aliens
came from that and they fought the Justice Society. [NOTE: Or
maybe “Land of Golden Giants” in The Flash #120 (May 1961)?
—Roy.]
EVANIER: Do you remember other stories about Green Lantern or
any villains that you especially liked?
SCHWARTZ: Maybe if you gave me a clue? [audience laughs] Did
you create a villain that was quite unique called Hector Hammond, the
immortal villain? Did you create that, John? Everything was created
through the brain. [This is followed by some audience discussion.]
BROOME: Could you tell me a little more about it? [audience laughs]
EVANIER: In Green Lantern, you did a villain called Black Hand.
And he spoke in clichés. Do you remember Black Hand, Julie?
SCHWARTZ: Of course! I’ll tell you who Black Hand really was!
Black Hand was Bill Finger, who created Batman. Literally created
him—and [the Golden Age] Green Lantern. Bill Finger would always
carry around a notebook and make notes, and Black Hand is really Bill
Finger.
AUDIENCE: The character’s name was William Hand.
SCHWARTZ: Of course. [audience laughs and groans]
“Boys, I’ll Give You A $2 Raise”
EVANIER: Let’s talk about Batman now. Were there any favorite
Batman villains?
BROOME: I didn’t invent villains for Batman. He always had his
own—
SCHWARTZ: Wait a second, John. You may have come up with the
idea—I’ll give you credit for it. You decided to do a story about
famous villains. We did a takeoff on Charlie Chaplin—yes, a Joker
story. Who were the other comedians that we used? Buster Keaton and
Fatty Arbuckle, too.
BROOME: That was one story that we did.
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 39

EVANIER: Let’s talk about—toward the end of your all. He knew I was a danger to him. I was going to cost him
career at DC, there was an attempt to form a money! [audience laughs] So he didn’t like me, but he really
writers’ union. couldn’t get rid of me too easily.

BROOME: Oh, yeah. That was kind-of a EVANIER: So that was sometime in the ’60s. The story
memorable period of my career at DC. I we’ve had for years is that some of the writers tried to
developed a fixed idea that DC should pay us for unionize or organize for health benefits and other
reprint material. In other words, if we wrote a story things, and [that] eventually a lot of them got fired
and Murphy Anderson drew the pictures and so on— from DC. You didn’t work for DC much longer
when DC paid for it, and then six months later or a than that.
year later, reprinted the whole story without paying
us, that was a kind of stealing of our abilities. It was BROOME: Not much longer.
stealing something away from us. I felt when I wrote a EVANIER: How did that come about?
story, it somehow belonged to me even if they paid for
it. It couldn’t be taken entirely away from me. I BROOME: You mean my going? I wasn’t fired or
admit it is hard to justify in a court of law, but I anything like that. I just lost momentum. I lost steam, I
wasn’t operating by courts of law and I was not just couldn’t keep going. And so I went into the business
a lawyer and kept telling everybody what they of teaching English and went out of comics. And that
were doing was a kind of crime in not paying was the end of it.
us. And I knew that in movies and television
and ASCAP, they paid royalties. So I thought EVANIER: Julie, was that why he went out of
comics should pay royalties. comics?

I thought to talk to the other writers. I didn’t talk to SCHWARTZ: All I know is that John and I were
the artists—they were above me, anyway. We were bridge partners. He was more concerned with being a
low-level employees, especially in that period. But good bridge partner than a writer at that point. But I
there were about five or six writers—there was can’t recall.
Eddie Herron, [Bob] Haney, Otto Binder, Gardner
Fox—anyway, I think it took six months or eight
months or something like that until one day I got
“Your Stories Are Cold…
them all together and in the same room and all There’s Always A Joker In The Pack
ready to do what they had to do, which was This Joker drawing was done by Carmine Mine Are Warm”
march into Liebowitz’s office—Liebowitz was Infantino especially for Arnie Grieves. But the
problems the DC writers had in trying to EVANIER: Any questions from the floor?
the boss, the millionaire boss—and demand a
form a union or guild at various times were
raise in salary or reprints. No, we didn’t ask for a AUDIENCE: [Question about how Broome
no laughing matter. [©2006 DC Comics.]
raise in salary. We asked for reprint rights. wrote “JSA” stories]
Liebowitz (who I understand is still alive)—it
shows he is a smart cookie. He’s about 95 or something... BROOME: It was a real challenge. You have to make a story that
could be 26 pages long or more, and it had to be a big story. You
SCHWARTZ: Or more! couldn’t write it about some little event. So each time I did an All-Star,
it was an achievement. I felt that I had achieved something in the All-
BROOME: He didn’t waste any time. He said, “Boys, I’ll give you a Star. I can remember feeling that—I can’t remember the stories. I’m
$2 raise,” and immediately my union afraid I’m disappointing everybody, but
collapsed! [audience laughs] That is the I can’t help it.
end of the first union at DC.
[From the audience, Roy Thomas asks
EVANIER: Can you give us a year on Broome if he recalls where the name of
that? the villain “Per Degaton” came from
in All-Star #35, John’s first “JSA”
BROOME: What year it was... maybe
story.]
Julie knows.
BROOME: That was All-Star? Yes,
SCHWARTZ: No.
now I remember that. Yes, Per
EVANIER: About ’68 or so? Degaton—yes, that was a good question.
[audience laughs] Was it somehow indi-
BROOME: By ’68 I was already cashing cated in the story? What was his power?
out of the picture. That would be earlier, He stole someone else’s time machine,
maybe ’65 would be about right. yes.
EVANIER: Now, were there other AUDIENCE: John, I was wondering if
grievances besides the reprints? Didn’t there was any sense of competition
some of the guys want health between you and Gardner Fox. I
insurance? always felt that you guys were the two
The Bat And The Bolt
giants of DC writers. Did you ever feel
BROOME: Maybe. Maybe. I think Another Infantino sketch done for fan/photog Keif Simon—of
Batman, this time—drawn on an inside page in a Flash
competitive with him?
maybe they had other demands, but
that’s the only part I recall. Liebowitz Archives volume. Seemed appropriate to feature this illo here,
BROOME: I’m afraid when it came to
was afraid of me. He didn’t like me at since John Broome scripted both heroes in the 1960s… and of
course Carmine drew both! [Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
comics writing I never recognized that I
40 “I Think I Was A Natural-Born Comic Writer”

On A Picnic Morning…
(Left to right:) Julie Schwartz,
Peggy Broome, & John Broome
on an idyllic day in 1946. From
the Julius Schwartz collection,
with thanks to Bob Greenberger.
EVANIER: I am curious about
something. How many people in this audience, just by a show of
hands, have written comics professionally? [Lots of hands in the
audience go up.]
had any competition. [audience
laughs and applauds] We were good
friends. Friends like two comics
writers, not like two real friends, but
we were friends. [audience laughs]
He was an honest man and never did
anything that in any way could hurt
me—like somebody might have done.
I had a very enviable position. I
remember Eddie Herron—some of
you may remember—a giant of a
man. He said to me, “Your stories are
cold... mine are warm.” He was
trying to make up for the fact that I
had this great in with Julie. So I could
travel around the world and he was
jealous of me. As I am afraid other
people have been.
ANDERSON: I have a question for
John. Maybe he was angry because
he had a bottle? [audience laughs]
I really worked it up. And that’s why I was successful in comics,
because I had this feeling about the gimmick. The gimmick was the
important thing.
“Tragedy Struck And Fate Intervened”
AUDIENCE: John, when did you start living overseas? Was that
during your comics career or was it after?
BROOME: My wife can tell you better that I can. Why don’t you
stand up and tell them about our life overseas? [audience applauds]
MRS. BROOME: [mostly inaudible] We lived in France. Our
daughter was there and went to school there, and in the meantime John
was writing comics...
BROOME: Tell them how long we’ve been married.
MRS. BROOME: Do I have to!? [audience laughs] Well, our next
anniversary will be our fifty-first. [audience applause]
EVANIER: I thought you were going to say five years. [audience
laughs] Another question—you had this big fight with DC about

SCHWARTZ: Wow!

EVANIER: There are a lot of people here.

MARV WOLFMAN: [from audience] Julie’s books and comics

back in the ’50s and ’60s for a long time never had credits.
However, there’re always stories that somehow resonated a lot
more than a lot of the other comic stories we’ve read. Later on,
when I became a professional or had access to DC office files and
such and checked out all the stories from my childhood that I liked,
there were so many, so many that you wrote that I want to thank
you from my childhood and probably [from] any one else, also.
[audience applauds]

EVANIER: [to Broome] He’s basically saying we all stole all our
ideas [from you]. [audience laughs]

AUDIENCE: Mr. Broome, I had a question regarding the current

direction of Green Lantern. How do you feel about DC taking
your baby and Hal Jordan and turning him into a mass murderer?

SCHWARTZ: He knows nothing about that.

EVANIER: DC has done a story line where Hal Jordan has

become a mass murderer and gone crazy...

BROOME: I would never write that story! [audience applause and

shouts of approval]

EVANIER: You loved traveling. Did your traveling impact your

work? Did it change the way you wrote?

BROOME: I don’t know, I suppose it had some effect. It is very hard

to say what effect. I think I was a natural-born comics writer, because
I never really felt that I was doing exactly what I could do best until I
came to comics. I wrote, as Julie said, 12 science-fiction stories, but I
never felt that I was a paramount science-fiction writer. But in comics
I felt just at home! I was just right. I got this gimmick, you see. I
loved gimmicks, and I would get one and all of a sudden it would It’s a Looonnnng Story…
explode—blam!! And when it hit like that, it made Shelly Mayer say Here’s a Flash/Elongated Man page from The Flash #138 (Aug. 1963). It was
that “No one ever hit it as hard as you did.” And I felt the same way. autographed by Julie Schwartz, Carmine Infantino, and Joe Giella for the
latter’s son Frank, who kindly sent us a copy. [Page ©2006 DC Comics.]
 John Broome In San Diego, 1998–––With Evanier, Schwartz, Anderson, & Barr 41

not paying reprint fees. One day,

years later, they started sending you
reprint checks.

BROOME: That’s right.

EVANIER: Those hardcover books of

The Flash. You must have gotten
some pretty nice checks. How’d you
feel the first time you got a reprint
check?

BROOME: I loved it! [audience

laughs and applause] I feel that I had it coming to me. For some
reason, I felt they would be very generous. The new management,
Jenette [Kahn] and a couple of others, seem to me to be a new breed,
different from the old breed hanging on to their money.

SCHWARTZ: To show you an instance—when The Flash went on

television, I received a check, Robert Kanigher received a check,
Carmine received a check—they sent you a check for how much? [to
Broome]

BROOME: It was $5,000. [audience applauds]

SCHWARTZ: They didn’t have to do it.

AUDIENCE: I would like to know if you are doing any kind of

writing at all.

BROOME: Yes, as a matter of fact, I spent the last 15 years writing

what I call an offbeat autobio. It’s been published and two people in
the audience got a copy.

EVANIER: And the rest want to know where to go to get one.

[audience laughs]

BROOME: But you know—I could only bring a tiny amount and I
can’t offer—I brought only four copies and I’ve given away two and
there’s only two left. If you want to make a lottery...

EVANIER: There’ve got to be more copies somewhere else. How

many people here want copies of this book? We need to make
arrangements.
BROOME: All right, if you make arrangements, I’ll cooperate.
EVANIER: Watch my column and I’ll tell you how to get them.
[audience applause; then, repeating question from audience] Why do
you feel that the artists were more important than the writers? What
was the status of the writer?
BROOME: First, the artist pay rate was about twice our pay rate.
That’s the beginning—they simply got more money. That made me feel
that they were more valuable. But not only that. I mean, deep down, I
got the feeling that those who appreciated comics... [A short period is
lost here as a tape ended.]
ANDERSON: [picking up in mid-sentence on new tape] —the artist
is responsible, but nothing could be further from the truth. The story is
the thing. Without the story, the most beautiful artwork means
nothing. [audience applauds]
DAN RASPLER: [from audience] I’m an editor at DC Comics. I
would just like to cordially offer you the opportunity—if you have any
interest in writing a story for DC Comics, we would always be inter-
ested in talking with you. [audience applauds]
AUDIENCE MEMBER: [different person?] First off, I should like
to point out that it should be a story with Murphy Anderson art.
[audience applauds] I wonder if you recall any of your favorite
As Crime Goes By
John Broome retroactively admires a page of original art from The Flash #142
(Feb. 1964), signed by editor Julius Schwartz, penciler Carmine Infantino, and
inker Joe Giella—again autographed for Joe’s son Frank. John, of course, had
scripted—and obeyed DC’s then-dictate that super-heroes didn’t break the
law, even in a far-flung future. Thanks to Joe & Frank for the photocopy.
[Page ©2006 DC Comics; photo ©2006 Don Ensign.]
gimmicks that you came up with?
BROOME: That’s a good question! As I’ve said, I think that is the key
to good successful comic. It’s very hard to say what a successful
gimmick is. A gimmick could be something like a banana peel. A
typical example: in newspaper comics in the old days they used to
show a guy walking along and he would slip on a banana peel and land
on his head and that was considered very funny. But if you put a
banana peel down on a villain who starts running away from Green
Lantern or Flash and you want him caught, because he is an evil
person—well, he slips on that banana at the right moment and the
reader feels great. The reader feels fate overtook him. It’s that what you
used to say, Julie—“Tragedy struck and fate intervened!” That was the
slogan. We would joke and say, at this point, “Tragedy struck and fate
intervened!” [audience laughs]
EVANIER: I have to call a halt to this because we are out of time.
But let me first thank Julie Schwartz, Murphy Anderson,
my friend, and writer Mike Barr, and Mr. John Broome.
[standing ovation]
 43

“We Were A Very Happy Group”

Artist TONY DiPRETA On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them
Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash
Maulers & Monsters
Tony DiPreta in the 1960s, at work on the Joe Palooka
“Boy, We Were
newspaper comic strip—flanked by a daily whose
original art he generously inscribed to A/E editor Roy
Millionaires,
Thomas, and the splash page to a DiPreta-drawn story
from Journey into Mystery #15 (April 1954). The horror
I’m Telling You!”
art, too, is repro’d from a photocopy of the original JIM AMASH: I’d like to get
art. [Joe Palooka TM & ©2006 McNaught Syndicate, a little background info first.
Inc., or its successors in interest; Timely page ©2006
When and where were you
Marvel Characters, Inc.; photo ©2006 Tony DiPreta.]
born?

TONY DiPRETA: Stamford,

Connecticut, July 9, 1921. I was
the first of three boys, and the
only artist. My brother Joe was
just as good an artist as I was in
high school, but he went in

T ony DiPreta is the perfect example of a

young man who climbed the ladder of
success step by step. He started out at
McCalls Photo Engraving as a colorist
another direction, which was
electronics.

I took art in high school and

for Busy Arnold’s Quality Comics line, then decided to become an artist in
became a staff letterer for Arnold. Before junior high school. I was a fan
long, he became an inker, and worked his way of the newspaper strip artists.
up to doing complete art on his stories. Tony The paper we read was The
spent a long time in comic books, working for Advocate, which only carried
publishers Hillman, Lev Gleason, Timely, four strips: Salesman Sam,
among others. He got a toehold early on in Wash Tubbs and Captain
newspaper strips as a letterer on Tim Tyler’s Easy, Freckles and His
Luck and later became Lank Leonard’s Friends, and Boots and Her
assistant on Mickey Finn. He eventually did Buddies. I also took life
full art on strips such as Joe Palooka and Rex drawing classes at the
Morgan, M.D. Tony looks back with fondness Silvermine Guild, as did a lot
on those times, and helps us see comic book of guys—including Elmer
talents like Charlie Biro, Bob Fujitani, Fred “Red” Wexler and Bob
Kida, Ed Cronin, Gill Fox, and a host of other Fujitani—who were both
fantasy makers in their element. Special thanks very good. I took these
to my friend Bob Fujitani (not a bad artist classes after high school, and
himself) for putting me in touch with Tony. took them for years. It was
Except where otherwise noted, all photos & art one of the few places where I
are courtesy of Tony D. —Jim. could draw from models.
44 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

JA: You also took

some writing classes
at Columbia
University and at the
University of
Connecticut.

DiPRETA: They were

two different situa-
tions. One of them was
in the early 1950s,
when I was working
for Lank Leonard on
Mickey Finn. Someone
told us Al Capp had
taken a writing course at Columbia University, and I thought, “That’s a
good idea.” I went down to Columbia and enrolled. The teacher was a
writer of Westerns and he taught me a lot. When he found out I did
comics, he was so fascinated that all his teaching became about writing
for comics. That course helped me in my own writing, which I did on
Joe Palooka. A couple of times when I went to McNaught Syndicate,
Frank Markey wanted me to write the strip, and I said I didn’t know if
I could do it. He said, “Of course you can do it. You’ve been doing
comics for so many years now—how come you can’t write a story?!”
[laughs]

JA: Bob Fujitani told me you two met at McCalls Photo Engraving.

DiPRETA: Right. I read an ad in the paper and applied for the job.
That was in 1939. When I was in high school, my art teacher sort-of
got me a job at an advertising agency. Let me explain what I mean by
“sort-of.” They used to put out sales bulletins with comic art on them.
I went to work for this company while still in high school. Now, you
must remember this was 1938 and the Depression was still going on.
This job paid me $8.20 a week—if I worked a full week—which was
about 21¢ an hour.

My boss was a guy named Mr. Spears. One time, I was working
down in the basement and he came down there, with a cigarette butt
hanging out of his mouth—almost like Busy Arnold—and said, “How
are you doing?” I said, “You know, Mr. Spears, there’s an article in the
paper yesterday that the minimum wage is 25¢ an hour.” [laughter] He
just looked at me, turned around, and went upstairs. I was worried
about what was going to happen to me, but that raise was in my next
check.
I worked there for less than a year when my father saw this ad for
McCalls in the paper that said, “Artist wanted.” I went there, and there
was a mob of people wanting an artist’s job. I got that job, which paid
$15 a week, and I thought things were beginning to hop. Then my dad
got a job as a defense worker, and that was for $25 a week. Boy, we
were millionaires, I’m telling you!
JA: What did you do at McCalls?
DiPRETA: This is where Bob comes in. We all sat around there,
waiting for work to come in. One of the photo engravers was a very
good artist. Photo engraving was very big in those days and they had a
strong union. This guy, Tony DeCamillo—and Bob Fujitani—were the
two best friends I had in my whole life. We were all up there in a big,
long room in the factory, sitting at art benches. Tony sat behind me;
there were two people in each row, and of course Bob was there, too,
along with Chris Hansen. There were four of us in that group. One
time, somebody said that someone was half-Japanese—he was speaking
about Bob. I looked at Tony and I looked at Bob. I thought that guy
was talking about Tony, but he was talking about Bob. Shows you how
much attention I paid!
Portraits Of The Artists As Young Men
Tony D. (on left) and Bob Fujitani. The note on this photo reads: “Tony
DiPreta – Bob Fujitani – April 1, 1941 – venture into NYC, in search of
freelance work. We found it—first time around.”
Above is a page from Fujitani’s “Shock Gibson” story for Speed Comics #38
(May 1945), repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Ethan
Roberts. More pages from this story can be seen with Fujitani’s own in-
depth interview, in A/E #23… see TwoMorrows ad bloc at end of this issue.
[Art ©Harvey Comics or successors in interest; photo ©2006 Tony DiPreta.]
Anyway, we heard that Quality Comics was going to have their
comics colored by our firm. There were four black-&-white pages on a
flat, and our job was not to color the comics, but to mask out the
colors. As an artist, you know what I mean: you masked out every-
thing that didn’t have yellow in it. You masked out everything with
red, and everything with blue. Boy, was that a boring job!
JA: Who decided what colors were going to be used?
DiPRETA: We did. Tony DeCamillo said he wanted me to color, and
not to mask. I said, “No, no, I can’t do that.” I was dying to do it! But
I couldn’t bring myself to say it. Thank God he didn’t take me at my
word. All four of us colored.
Chris Hansen was a very creative, funny comic artist. He had a
sense of humor, and I thought he would be the first of us to get a
syndicated comic strip. Chris and Bob had a fellowship to one of the
New York schools, and they went back to school. But he got married
soon after, and that was the end of his comic book days. He went into
advertising art and was more of an art director than an artist. And Bob
only worked there for that summer. I worked there for about a year.
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 45

A Cole Hard Look

Three photos of writer/artist Jack Cole taken by Tony D. at the Quality
Comics bullpen in Stamford, Connecticut, in 1941. The bottom one, Tony
notes, shows “Jack Cole mimicking FDR, or was it Eleanor?” These are
juxtaposed with the two pages of original “Dan Tootin” art by Cole (as
“Ralph Johns”) from Hit Comics, which DiPreta owns—and a splash featuring
Cole’s greatest creation, Plastic Man. The latter, on which Cole gave himself
an unaccustomed byline, is from Police Comics #69 (Aug. 1947), recently
reprinted in Plastic Man Archives, Vol. 6. Keep goin’ till the last 1956 issue,
DC! [Dan Tootin art ©2006 the respective copyright holders; Plastic Man
page ©2006 DC Comics; photos ©2006 Tony DiPreta.]
46 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

I saw all the books that Quality printed, including Lou Fine’s work.
I was inspired to try my hand at drawing comics. I put together a
portfolio, which included these pages and samples of my lettering—
which I did on [Lyman Young’s newspaper strip] Tim Tyler’s Luck,
though that’s another story. I went up to Quality on my lunch hour,
since they were only half a mile away from us. I showed my stuff to
publisher Busy Arnold and, being no fool, figured that if I was good
enough to letter Tim Tyler’s Luck, then I was good enough to letter his
comic books. He gave me a staff job right on the spot: 25 bucks a week.
I thought I was really moving up the ladder now.
Ed Cronin was there, and so was Gill Fox. Ed was the editor and
Gill was his assistant. In fact, Ed was editor the entire time I was there,
which was about one year. I remember that on April 1, 1941, Bob and I
went to New York with our portfolios.
“Jack and Dorothy [Cole] Used To Come Up To The House”
JA: Besides Busy Arnold, Ed Cronin, and Gill Fox, who worked in
the Quality offices?
DiPRETA: Nobody else worked there at that time, except for the
secretary, Miss McKenzie, and me. Then, others, like Jack Cole, started
floating in to work in the offices. Jack Cole was a tall man, who was a
little bit heavy. He was married to Dorothy, a warm and gracious lady.
They were very friendly people. Jack had a great sense of humor and he
was a very hard worker. You know, we all came from the Depression
and, boy, we were all so happy to make a buck.
You know Alex Kotzky? He worked in the offices a few times. One
time, Alex and I were having a big, long talk and it turned out that—
well, he had it worse than I did. His father died when he was a kid and
the family had to work to make ends meet. Alex was married to a
lovely woman. Anyway, most of us were happy to have a job and we
were going to bust our tails to do the best that we could.
JA: Did you spend much time with Jack and Dorothy Cole?
DiPRETA: I can’t remember how I ended up with these two gag pages.
Did Jack give them to me? I can’t say after all this time.
JA: What do you remember about Jack and Dorothy’s relationship?
DiPRETA: They were in love! They didn’t have any children. I kind-
of think they couldn’t have any, and they would have loved to have had
children. At least, I know that they were married long enough by the
time I met them that they could have had children. Now, Jack came
from hard times, too, and he was making money now, so he could
afford to support a wife and children.
Dorothy had a sister Janice, who was recently divorced. She came to
Stamford, and the four of us used to go out together. A couple times,
Janice and I took the ferry boat from Stamford to Rye Beach, New
York, which was sort-of like Coney Island. I dated Janice for just a
short time.
JA: Did you ever see the Coles have any martial difficulties?
DiPRETA: Never! Never! Dorothy was one of the most understanding
women I ever knew. She was great to me, and so was Jack.
JA: Was she a strong-willed woman or was she the type to defer to
Jack?
DiPRETA: She was not a domineering wife. Now, one time, when we
were walking around my yard, near my studio... well, I was buying
plants in those days. Before that, plants and flowers were things you
got from your neighbors. But now, I was starting to make money, and I
was looking through all these catalogs for plants to buy. I bought a
plant called a Red Weigela and stuck it in the window outside of my
studio. I was so proud of that plant!
So Jack, Dorothy, and I were
walking around the yard and I
said, “Jack, look at that plant I
bought. It’s a Red Weigela,”

DiPRETA: Outside of the office? Yes. Jack and Dorothy used to

come up to the house. My mother was so in love with them that
you couldn’t believe it. You know Italian mothers: they have to
cook, cook, cook for whomever they liked. She was always putting
out a spread. Now, by this time, Jack had finally bought a house.
Before he bought this particular house, Jack and Dorothy lived in an
apartment, which was why he worked in the offices. At least, that’s
what I thought, unless Busy Arnold wanted him to work in the
office. By the way, I have a couple of Jack’s originals, signed “Ralph
Johns.”

JA: Boy, we’d love to have copies of those!

You know, it’s a shame none of Jack’s
“Plastic Man” originals seem to have
survived.

DiPRETA: That’s a real shame. I wish I had

been greedy and taken more originals. But
we never thought much about things like
that. I’ve asked myself why I never took
any “Plastic Man” pages, because I was
crazy about that comic. I guess Jack took
them all. Did Gill save any?

JA: No, he didn’t, though in retrospect,

he wished he had. But Gill told me that
most of the original art was destroyed by
Busy Arnold. We have no idea if Cole
saved any pages.
 “We Were A Very Happy Group”
and told him what I read in the catalog about it. Jack said, “Awwwww,
that is not a recommended plant.” He was reading books on plants,
too, because he’d just bought that house—which, by the way, is now a
condo in a condo complex. Jack said, “It grows into a terrible shape
and gets lopsided. It’s not recommended by the book I’m reading.”
Then Dorothy said, “Jack! How can you say that? He loves that plant
and you are disparaging it!” [laughter] That’s the only time I ever them
argue. Incidentally, the bush still grows.
JA: Then she was a very social person?
DiPRETA: Well, she was a little shy. Friendly, but shy. She got along
with my mother, though my mother was very easy to get along with.
Dorothy was still a young woman.
JA: Right. Well, you know, I’m just trying to fill in details about the
Coles, and of course, you know what happened to Jack... [NOTE:
At the height of his success in 1958, as a popular cartoonist for
Playboy and having just launched a newspaper comic strip, Betsy
and Me, Jack Cole committed suicide.]
A Fine Bunch Of Photos
Tony sent us a virtual treasure trove of photos (see facing page) of the very
fine Lou Fine, which abut the original art for a “Black Condor” page from
Smash Comics #19 (Dec. 1941)—and, as a bonus, even a pencil sketch done by
Fine on the back of that page of original art. As for the photos—from lower left:
(1) “Lou Fine - Quality Comics – Stamford, CT 1941.” Photo by Tony DiPreta.
(2) “Tony DiPreta – Lou Fine – Stamford Square – original offices of Quality
Comics 1941.” That’s Tony next to the parking meter. The latter photo may
have been taken by Gill Fox.
(3) “Lou Fine – Stamford RR station 1941.”
[Black Condor TM & ©2006 DC Comics; photos ©2006 Tony DiPreta.]
47
DiPRETA: It was a total, total shock that that could ever happen to
Jack—that he would be unhappy about life! To me, he had the world
by the tail. He was creative: as far as I’m concerned. Everything he
touched, worked.
JA: Did you ever see him in a bad mood?
DiPRETA: Yes, but I’m a little embarrassed about it. At my young age,
I thought it funny to take a rubber band between my fingers and use it
like a slingshot. Then I’d take a little wad of paper and shoot it. This
time, I shot Jack in the rear end. [laughter] Jack turned around—
mad—and looked at me and said, “Don’t you ever do that again.” I
could have crawled under a rock. I just loved the guy and never wanted
to do anything to upset him. Ordinarily, he was very, very friendly. He
liked everybody and everybody liked him. We were a very happy
group.
JA: How long were you personally associated with him?
DiPRETA: Jack moved into that house that I told you about, but for
some reason, he later moved into a great big house in Great Barrington,
Massachusetts. He was still working for Arnold, but I moved to New
York and never saw Jack again.
JA: Did you ever work on any of Jack’s stuff?
DiPRETA: No. I don’t even think I lettered any of it.
“[Lou Fine] Never Took Short Cuts”
JA: Tell me about working with Lou Fine.
DiPRETA: Lou Fine was so meticulous in his work that I figured he
had to be slow. His work was so fussy because he never took short
cuts. He’d draw an arm outside of the panel, just to make sure he had it
at the right angle and proportion. Then he’d erase what wasn’t going to
show in the panel.
I worked with Lou in New York for two weeks. But that’s as
misleading a statement as I’ll ever make. I didn’t work with Lou Fine;
I went down there and hung around. What happened was that I’d just
got the job with Quality. Now, Busy Arnold and Gill Fox were going
on separate vacations. Arnold said to me, “I’m going to send you to
New York to Lou Fine’s studio, and you can learn from him.” Boy,
that was the happiest thing in my life. I never even made a mark on his
work. I went down there and it was great! Now, he had a guy who
worked with him. He was very technical, almost like an engineer. I
can’t remember his name right now.
JA: Do you remember Bob Fujitani breaking down stories for Lou?
DiPRETA: I remember Bob breaking down for Lou, and I remember
Tony DiPreta breaking down for Lou. I did it while I was working in
the offices of Quality Comics. What happened was that Mr. Arnold
came in from New York one unpleasant afternoon, with the startling
news that Lou couldn’t “break down”—meaning he couldn’t make a
story interesting with breakdowns. “We have to find someone to break
down for Lou.” He turned to Bob Fujitani and said, “Bob, do you
want to break down a story for Lou?” Well, who’s going to say “no” to
Busy Arnold? So, Bob broke down a story for Lou. And Arnold
wanted me to break down a story for Lou, which I did. The “Hack
O’Hara” story you printed in Alter Ego [#17] was broken down by
Bob.
JA: What story did you break down for Lou?
DiPRETA: It was an “Uncle Sam” story. If I ever see it, I’ll remember it.
JA: Did Lou Fine complain?
48 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

DiPRETA: Oh, I think he was JA: I wish I had been able to

devastated. Can you imagine this do that, too. Getting back to
crap that was coming down, and he the Quality offices, was
had to ink it? I’m sure that every- letterer Martin DeMuth
thing he got from us was repen- there?
ciled by Fine and that was that.
DiPRETA: I’ve never heard of
JA: What do you remember about him. I know Gill Fox did some
him on a personal level? lettering, as did I, of course.

DiPRETA: He was a little guy, you JA: Speaking of letterers, do

know. He was as mild as a man you remember Zoltan
could possibly be. A gentle, gentle Szenics? You probably knew
soul is what he was. He wasn’t Busy Is As Busy Does him as “Zully.”
talkative, but he was a friendly talker Photos of Quality publisher Everett “Busy” Arnold are rare indeed—but
and would talk with you. He wasn’t Tony DiPreta managed to take two of them in the bullpen at the Gurley DiPRETA: Holy cow! I
a recluse and wouldn’t hold anything Building in Stamford, CT, in 1941! Here they’re juxtaposed with an haven’t though about him in
back. He was lame, you know. Oh, original-art page of “The Ray” drawn by the great Reed Crandall for over 50 years! Well, he was a
Smash Comics #27 (Oct.1941). Crandall had inherited that feature from its cheerful guy who always
he used to work in the Quality
original artist, Lou Fine. The story was done on left-over Eisner & Iger smiled. He was always a very
offices at times, too. paper. [Photos ©2006 Tony DiPreta; Ray page ©2006 DC Comics.] happy, pleasant man.
He was a very nice man. I went
up to his apartment a number of times. His wife Mary was a very nice
woman. I remember he had a model boat, very meticulously made. I “Busy Arnold Was The Best Tipper At The Golf Course”
think it was a tiny junk. Lou loved beautiful things—especially hand-
JA: What did you think of Busy Arnold?
made stuff.
DiPRETA: I’m going to backtrack on him. He belonged to the old
I remember one time when I was at the Fines’ house for dinner.
Greenwich golf course. These were the days of poverty, before I started
There was something about the meat—I think it was Kosher. Another
working and all that. My brother Joe used to caddy down there. Chic
time, Lou was invited over to my house for dinner. I said, “Lou, we
Young of Blondie used to play there. Lyman Young, who did Tim
don’t know anything about Kosher.” He said, “Don’t worry about it.”
Tyler’s Luck, used to play there, and my brother was once lucky
So my mother made a regular Italian feast. I don’t think Lou was
enough to caddy for Lyman Young. He told Lyman Young that I
particularly religious. I never heard him talk about religion in any
wanted to be a cartoonist and Young said, “Well, bring him down.”
context.
That was a wonderful thing for him to offer.
JA: I’ve heard that Arnold gave Fine his own office and paid the
I went to see him and he said, “Why don’t you letter my strip?” But
rent on it, too.
this wasn’t a permanent job. He’d call me on a Saturday afternoon—
DiPRETA: Oh, he must have! That was in Tudor City, which was when he wanted to play golf—and I’d come over and letter his strips.
where I went when Arnold sent me to see Lou. Eisner had a studio in That was great! Joe never made any contacts with Chic Young, though.
Tudor City, too, but I never went to his studio. I never got involved
Busy Arnold was the best tipper at the golf course. Joe got to caddy
with Will Eisner. I’m sure Arnold paid for Lou’s office and also paid
for him once, and told him about me. This was before Arnold got into
Lou’s background man.
publishing. He was a printing press salesman and made money, I guess.
One of the guys who worked there was Paul Gustavson. He drew
When I went into his office to look for a job, I knew who Busy
“Alias The Spider,” and was a marvelous artist. He came up to the
Arnold was—he was the big tipper at the golf course. I told him that I
office once, but I didn’t have a chance to talk to him. I wish someone
was lettering for Lyman, and I’m sure they must have known each
had interviewed him before he died.
other, since they played golf at the same club.
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 49

Arnold was a great guy and very nice to me. When I told him I was
leaving and going to New York to work, he was a little bit upset, but
he didn’t resent me or anything like that. Right after that, Arnold ran
into Lank Leonard on a train, and Leonard said he was going to lose
his assistant to military service. He asked if Arnold knew anybody and
he said, “Yeah, Tony DiPreta. He’s a very nice guy. Give him a call.” So
Leonard sent me a telegram—I didn’t have a telephone. And I started
to work for Lank.
I think everybody liked working for Busy Arnold. He always had a
cigarette hanging off the bottom of his lip. It must have just stuck
there! He was generous and he didn’t have to give me $25 a week when
I started. He was very finicky about the artwork. He used to take the
pages and go around whiting out marks and smudges. If he didn’t like
the tail on a word balloon, he’d correct it. [laughter]
He had a big barrel in the studio where he trashed the original art
when it was returned. All that great artwork destroyed! Some of us did
take a few pages out when he wasn’t looking, though. Now, when
Eisner was doing The Spirit, those pages didn’t come to the office—
they went straight to Eisner. You couldn’t sneak a page of that stuff
out. You know, those pages went to the engraver and they didn’t come
back to the artists.
Anyway, Arnold used to have the pages stacked up—he had that
barrel in front of him and the cigarette dangling from his mouth, and
he took the pages and ripped them in half. This included Lou Fine, Jack
Cole—everybody’s work! Oh, it was just unbelievable to see that. I
don’t know who was the first to ask him for originals. One time, I said,
“Mr. Arnold, can I have a few pages of that artwork?” And he let me
have some. I know I got some, Gill Fox got some, but I don’t think Ed
Cronin took any. I guess he was too old and sophisticated to take that
stuff. [laughs]
word misspelt. Sometimes he’d see something I wouldn’t and say, “You
missed one.” [laughs] That’s how he read the books so fast. I mean,
there were a lot of books to read, and he had other chores to do.
I was very friendly with his wife and two daughters. He had a very
nice family. I remember Ed told me that he had worked for Ham Fisher
at one point. They were both from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. He also
knew Phil Boyle, who had been penciling Joe Palooka for Ham. You
couldn’t tell his work from Ham Fisher’s. There were other people, like
Al Capp, who worked for Fisher down through the years, but Phil and
Ed were there very early on. But Ed left, went to New York, and how
he got to Busy Arnold’s place is something I never knew.
JA: What do you remember about Gill Fox from that time?
DiPRETA: He was another wonderful person. He showed me all kinds
of things about comics. He was the first guy to show me how to use an
Ames guide for lettering. He taught me how to make my work look
more professional. He also taught me what brush to use for inking: a
Winsor & Newton Series Seven number three. But I’ll always
remember one thing he told me about the brush: “You know, dried ink
accumulates around the ferrule and gets hard as a rock here. What you
want to do is to wash the brush with soap and water. Lay the brush flat
on a bar of soap and then roll it—don’t jab it or you’ll ruin the brush
hair. That’ll keep the cake off.” Then he said, “Whatever you do, don’t
do it in the bathroom or leave the black ink on the soap because your
wife will kill you.” [laughter] He must have had experience with that,

JA: Do you know anyone else who took art?

DiPRETA: No, I don’t know if anyone else took any art work. Most
of the artists weren’t there to take them. Gill got a lot of covers—he
was into that.

JA: So Arnold wouldn’t have cared if you took pages.

DiPRETA: Arnold would have let you take all the pages that were
there, if you wanted them. I’m sure of that. You could have carried
them all home; it was as simple as that. He just got rid of the stuff
because it was always piling up and piling up, and he needed the space.
How about the syndicates? You know, I couldn’t find one page on my
Joe Palooka strips. I searched and searched those offices, but I couldn’t
find any. They didn’t even bother to return the work to artists. They
just threw everything out.

“All These Guys Were Wonderful”

JA: What a shame! Well, let me ask you what you remember about
Ed Cronin.

DiPRETA: You know, I keep saying all these guys were wonderful—
and to me, they were. You must remember that I was 20, 21 years old
and I was in paradise. It was a dream come true. I had barely been out
of high school, dreaming of being a cartoonist, and all of a sudden, the
doors magically opened and here I was.

Ed Cronin was another saint, as far as I was concerned, but boy, he

was meticulous. We had to proofread the stories, and I sure learned a
lot about spelling from him. He’d say, “Okay Tony, we’re going to read
this together. I think we’ll proofread this stuff faster if we read it
The Quality Of Military Is Not Strained
together.” I’d start reading aloud first, and then Ed would do the same Another artist who did good work for Quality was Alden McWilliams, who drew this
page for an early-’40s issue of Military Comics. Repro’d from a photocopy of the
right behind me. Every so often, we’d notice a comma missing or a
original art, courtesy of Tony DiPreta. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
50 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

and I have never washed a brush without thinking about Gill. Bob got married very early to fellow art student Ruth, who is best
friends with my wife. Many, many years ago, they bought a choice
Of course, Gill talked about comics and cartoonists all the time. In house on Long Island Sound. He went from being the young man on
fact, even as an old man, Gill did that. And he was a good cartoonist. In the block to being the old man on the block. [laughter]
fact, I have one of his sports pages here. I wish I had one of his “Poison
Ivy” pages. One time, I built a small boat and I named it Poison Ivy. JA: Bob told me that his house is just a couple of houses away from
where Busy Arnold used to live.
JA: Even though Bob Fujitani didn’t work in the offices, let’s talk a
little more about him. You two hit it off pretty early, didn’t you? DiPRETA: Exactly! One day, Ruth said they were building a new
house a couple of houses away and we went to check it out. Turns out
DiPRETA: Right from the beginning. He went to Greenwich High and that they tore down Busy Arnold’s old house and put a new one up in
I went to Stamford High. I was the best artist at Stamford High School, its place. That’s not uncommon, though.
and then I met Bob. I not only met my match, but I also met my
master. [laughter] I have to say I have a grudge against my high school JA: I’m afraid that’s true. Well, on the day that you and Bob went
because they never told us that art scholarships were available. looking for work, you were already an inker, weren’t you?
Greenwich High School not only mentioned it to their students, but
they encouraged them to go to art school. Chris Hansen went to art DiPRETA: Oh yes. I was lettering for Arnold and making that $25 a
school on a scholarship, and so did Bob. So did Fred Kida. week. I did some inking samples. I had a cousin who was a little older
than me who worked in a plumbing supply house. He went to work
I told you we both went to New York looking for work on April there as a kid, and when he was 70 years old, he was still doing the
Fool’s Day in 1941. We went to MLJ and they were not interested in same thing he did when he was 14 years old. He never became the
my work at all, but they sure liked Bob. He got to do “The Hangman” manager or the owner of the place. I wasn’t going to go work
and a bunch of other features. And Bob used to write some of that someplace and give myself to that business and leave at the same
stuff. I think editor Harry Shorten just gave a few sentences of plot, position I started at. So I decided to become a full-blown cartoonist.
and Bob’d go home and write and draw the story.
JA: This was in 1941, right?
Funny, but Biro did that once in a while. There was a story about
Lucky Luciano, and it was the worst script I ever saw. Biro said, “Well, DiPRETA: Right. I went to New York on a Saturday and the first
why don’t you write the script yourself? There’s a bunch of books place I went to was Timely Comics. They were in a new building on
about crime in the library, and there’s crime magazines at the store. 42nd Street—the McGraw-Hill Building. I met this young guy there,
Read them and change the script around a bit if you want. You can fill sitting at a table stacked with a lot of pages, and flipping through them.
up 7 pages, so go write the story your way.” I did exactly that and it I said, “Would you like to see my samples?” He said, “Why, sure,” and
wasn’t hard at all. That’s when I got interested in writing. he did. He asked me if I’d like to ink a feature called “Ziggy Pig.” I
agreed and was paid either 7 bucks a page or 8 bucks a page. The story
Getting back to Bob... he was the quarterback of his high school was 7 or 8 pages long. However it all worked out, I was going to get a
team. He was the best artist by far that you’d ever see. He was the $57 for this job.
president of his senior class. Everywhere he went, people treated him as
well as they could. Everybody loved Bob. I used to go and visit him at I took the pages home and set up a little studio in what had been my
his house. He was renting a nice Tudor style house with a front porch, mother’s sewing room. I was inking away and my mother and grand-
and we worked there. father came in to see what I was doing. I told them I was doing this on
the side from Quality Comics. I told them how much I was going to
We’d also go fishing out in the sound nearby. We
learned about striped bass, and Bob was quite a smart guy.
He figured out how to catch the big ones. He became the
legendary catcher of big bass in this town. Bob figured out
that everyone who caught bass caught ones that weighed
about five pounds or so. Somebody caught one that was
21 pounds, and that was the record for years. And
through observation, Bob figured out how to catch big
fish. He noticed that big bass went after herring, so he
tried using that for bait, instead of sandworms, which was
the most commonly used bait. The live herring was on the
hook and swimming around in the water and the next
thing you know, a 35-pound bass went for it. That was the
dawn of a new era. He ought to tell you the story of how
the secret got out and everyone was catching 30-pound
bass.

Bob’s brother was at a tavern, bragging about Bob’s

catching 30-pound bass. Nobody believed him, and they
bet on it. So Bob went fishing and caught a 30-pound
bass. He took it to the tavern, plopped it down on a bar,
and said, “There it is, boys. Pay your money.” As I said, it
was the dawn of a new age! And now, they have a
restriction on what size bass you can catch, and what you
can take in, because catching all that big bass devastated
the bass population. Eventually, the striped bass
recovered.
The Clock Strikes One…
George Brenner, besides being an editor at Quality for a time, created the series “The Clock,”
featuring one of the first masked heroes in comics. The character started out at Centaur, then
jumped to Quality’s Feature Funnies/Comics and then to Smash Comics. These panels, repro’d
from an English boys’ annual of some years back, looks to be one of the earlier Quality
entries. Thanks to Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 51

get paid, and my grandfather tapped me on the arm and said, “Good
boy. Good boy.” [mutual laughter]

JA: Hey, $57 was good money back then.

DiPRETA: Oh, yeah! And this was besides what I was making from
Busy Arnold. And two years before, I was making $8.20 a week!
Anyhow, everyone around me was making a lot less. I want to say one
thing, and this has a little sarcasm in it: what they pay cartoonists today
isn’t worth beans. In those days, we got 15 bucks a page and we did
one page a day. People were working for $15 a week, so if you did 5 or
6 pages a week, and some people were real pushers; I’m sure they did
more than that in a week. That was a lot of money to bring in.

Anyhow, it didn’t occur to me that people didn’t work in the office

on Saturday. And the guy working there at the desk that day was Stan
Lee. I brought the story back the next week and Stan liked it. I
thought, “Hey, $25 a week from Arnold is pretty good, but $57 a week
is better.” I decided to go freelance, so when Bob and I went to New
York that April Fool’s Day, we got it! I’ve freelanced ever since.

“Quality Objected To My Working At Other Companies”

JA: Before we get into that, let me stay with Quality for a second or
two. Did you do any inking while on staff?

DiPRETA: Yes. I did some “Doll Man,” and even have a page of it.

JA: The other Quality credits I have for you are “Windy Breeze” and
“Mayor Midge.” And, in 1944, I have you listed as doing “Blimpy.”

DiPRETA: I remember “Mayor Midge,” which was a take-off on New

York Mayor LaGuardia. I also remember “Blimpy.” The year sounds
right, because I was in New York at the time. Gill Fox had taken over
for Ed Cronin at Quality, and then George Brenner became the editor
when Gill went into the Army. George also did “The Clock.”
The other day, you asked me if anyone at Quality objected to my
working at other companies. Well, I was working for Biro and Wood at
Lev Gleason on Crime Does Not Pay and for Ed Cronin, who had
become an editor at Hillman Publications, when I got a letter—maybe
dictated by Arnold to George Brenner—and I think Brenner signed the
letter. The letter said, “We understand you are doing work for Hillman
Comics”—I don’t think they even honored Cronin by using his name,
and said—“You should working for us exclusively, and if you’re not,
you’d better.” It was that kind of letter. He signed it, “George.” I was
not too happy about it because Ed Cronin was a friend. I was a friend
of his family—they used to come to my mother’s house. I mean,
[laughs] it sounds like everyone came to my mother’s house, but that’s
the way communities worked in those days. Now, I don’t even know
my two neighbors here.
When I started doing artwork, I was doing all humor work. Bob
was doing illustrative work. Then, it seemed like the bigfoot stuff was
losing money because more and more super-hero comics were
appearing on the stands. I went to see Vin Sullivan at Columbia
Comics, who was somehow associated with the McNaught Newspaper
Syndicate. Vin gave me a war story to draw and said, “Do you think
you can handle this?”
I wasn’t going to refuse, because humor work was getting scarce. I
said, “Oh, I can do it.” I took the script home with me and thought,
“How the hell am I going to do this thing?” I took an issue of Life
magazine and used the photographs of the people in there. I wasn’t
much good there, but it was good enough to pass. I did some more war
stories, but I wasn’t really crazy about it. I even did a few romance
stories.
The Real “Skinny”
For Hillman Publications, Tony DiPreta did “Skinny McGinty”—and managed
to walk away from time to time with a piece of his original art, like this one,
which seems to be from 1946. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
JA: What do you remember about Vin Sullivan?
DiPRETA: Another friendly guy. You know, these guys weren’t hard
on me, but I guess it was the times. They needed guys to do the work.
If I went out there today with the ability I had then, and the lack of
knowledge—that’s the key word—I couldn’t even get a job. But even
with the high quality type of work that’s out there today, I could
convince myself that I could do it, too. You do an awful lot of cheating.
That’s what I felt I was doing in those days. Now, Bob never copied
anybody. He had such a mind that he could just draw anything—he
didn’t believe in copying at all. You hear guys say, “Oh, I was influ-
enced by Milton Caniff, “ or “I was influenced by Hal Foster on
Prince Valiant.” What they’re really saying is that “I used to copy
Milton Caniff or Hal Foster.” They used to just swipe the stuff! I was
too stupid to be influenced by anybody. [laughter] My breakthrough
was courtesy of Life magazine, though I didn’t think I was copying—I
was working from photographs. Somehow, that seemed different.
I penciled and inked my work for Vin Sullivan, though I don’t
remember whether I lettered it or not. When someone wanted me to
letter, I lettered, though I wouldn’t if I didn’t have to.
JA: When you did complete story art, did you have to get the pencils
approved before inking?
DiPRETA: No, nobody ever asked me to do that. They were just glad
to get the work in on time.
52 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them
We Kida You Not
A Fred Kida page from an issue of Crime Does Not Pay, repro’d from a
photocopy of the original art. Was Bob Bernstein or Charlie Biro or whoever
wrote this particular story having a private laugh by talking in panel 4
about “William Gaines,” the “ex-con”? At right: Kida’s sketches from the
back of the page. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
JA: I’d like to back up to Timely for a minute. How many “Ziggy
Pig” stories did you do?
DiPRETA: Just that one, in 1941.
JA: I also have you listed as doing “Ziggy Pig and Silly Seal” in
1944.
DiPRETA: The thing about Timely was that I seemed to work for
them “on and off.” Whenever I went there, Stan Lee gave me work.
The thing was that, after I did that one story for Stan Lee, Ed Cronin
started feeding me work at Hillman. So I’d do a job for Ed, and if he
had another story waiting for me, I’d take it. But there would be times
when Ed didn’t have something for me to do that week. Well, I wasn’t
going to just sit around. I’d go back to whoever would give me work,
whether it was Stan Lee or Vin Sullivan or Ray Herman. So I might
have done those “Ziggy Pig and Silly Seal” stories that you mentioned.
JA: You said you didn’t get a job at MLJ the day you went there
with Bob Fujitani, but I have a 1943 credit for you on “The
Hangman.”
DiPRETA: I don’t remember doing anything for MLJ, but if I did, it
was probably backgrounds for Bob Fujitani.
JA: You started working for
Hillman in 1942. Some of the
features I have you listed as
doing were “One Wing
Spin,” “Stupid Manny,”
“Zippo,” “Iron Ace,” “Boy
King,” “Buttons The
Rabbit,” “Captain Codfish,”
“Earl The Rich Rabbit,” “Fatsy McPig,” and “Skinny McGinty.”
DiPRETA: “Stupid Manny” and “Skinny McGinty “ were regular
monthly features for me, and I enjoyed doing them. I remember
drawing all of those features, except for “One Wing Span,” “Boy
King,” and “Captain Codfish.” I wouldn’t be surprised if I did that
bigfoot stuff even after I started doing adventure work.
JA: Was there a difference in pay between drawing adventure stories
and humor stories?
DiPRETA: It was the same pay. Why do you think I preferred doing
humor stories? [mutual laughter]
“Hillman... Was A Real, Legitimate Publishing Company”
JA: Did you letter your Hillman stories?
DiPRETA: Let me tell you about that. Recently, Bob reminded me that
we used to take the pages to Ed Cronin’s house in Darien, which was
the next town over from Stamford. Ed used to letter our stories. We
paid him to letter for us, as we would have for any letterer. Hillman
paid us to do the lettering, and we paid Ed for his work.
JA: From 1943 until 1946, I have you listed as doing work in Airboy
Comics [formerly Airfighters Comics]. Did you do “Airboy” stories
or backup stories?
DiPRETA: I did back stories, though I might have done one or two
“Airboy” stories. It was not my thing, though. Fred Kida did a great
job on that series.
JA: Did Cronin have an assistant editor? And what were the
Hillman offices like?
DiPRETA: Not that I remember. I don’t think he did. As for your
second question, I must say that some of the places I worked at had
dinky little offices. Hillman Publications was a real, legitimate
publishing company and also published magazines. Some of these
places had a receptionists’ area when you entered, like most real
businesses do. Well, some of the other places that I’d go, I’d practically
hit the editor in the rear when I opened the door. I really don’t
remember much about Hillman’s offices.
JA: Both Bob Fujitani and Sy Barry described Ed Cronin as a very
nervous person.
DiPRETA: He was. He was very conscientious. I don’t think he
suffered from a lack of confidence, but I told you how he had me
proofread along with him. I think maybe he just needed reassurance
from someone else.
Having said that, Ed would take my pages and...let’s say the name of
the feature was “Stupid Manny.” Out loud, he’d say, “Stupid Manny,”
go through one page and say, “One, one , one.” He’d go to the next
one and say, “Two, two, two,” and continue in that fashion until he
counted all the pages. That was something no one else ever did.
Here’s another story about that. All of us had just come out of the
Great Depression. There was a time after he worked for Ham Fisher in
Wilkes-Barre, and before he went to Quality, that Ed was out of work.
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 53

I don’t know what the situation was—whether Ed’s parents were still
alive or if he had any siblings. I know he was married when I met him,
and was on the way to an upper middle class life.
He was very concerned when I told him that my father didn’t work
during the Great Depression. My mother worked in a sweat-shop for
$7 a week and had to sew the collars on 42 dresses for six cents each.
She really had to work her butt off. But we were able to live on that.
Ed was the type of guy who worried about finances. He said, “How
did you live? How did you get by?
The gas bill was a dollar a month. The electric bill was a dollar a
month and we made sure we didn’t go beyond that—my parents made
sure of that. I told Ed that we got by. We had our own vegetable garden
and my mother canned everything in sight. If someone had an apple
tree, my brother and I would pick them for people, give them half, and
we took the other half home. My mother made applesauce. We got by.
Ed was asking me about all this because he was worried about what
he’d do if he lost his job. He was worried about how he’d support his
wife and two daughters. It was a big thing to him that it was possible
for the DiPretas to live on almost nothing. And it was possible. There
was never a day when there wasn’t food on the table or that I went
hungry. But, if you asked me what Tom Mix did in the latest movie...
well, I didn’t even know what Tom Mix looked like. [laughs] We didn’t
eat candy bars, but we made it through the tough times, and
somehow or another, my father paid the mortgage. And Ed Cronin
couldn’t get over how we made it through.
The publisher was a kindly old man; he was a little guy with a
mustache, bald-headed, and always had a cigar in his hand. He came
somewhere from Pennsylvania. He didn’t know a helluva lot about the
comics publishing business, but he wanted to be in that business. Why,
I have no idea. He walked around the office a lot, but I don’t remember
what he did. I can’t remember his name, either.
JA: The publisher’s name was Frank Temmerson. Does that name
ring a bell?
DiPRETA: No, it doesn’t.
JA: Will Eisner once described Temmerson as having no teeth.
DiPRETA: [laughs] Oh, well, now that I think about it, he looked like
he didn’t have any teeth. Anyhow, the next thing I knew, they bought
some stuff and then they slowed down on buying work. The next thing
I knew, they were out of business, and they owed me some money,
though they kept the offices open. It wasn’t a lot of money, but it was
the only time I didn’t get paid in comic books. I was lucky.
The company was working on a shoe-string the entire time. Every
once in a while, I sent them a bill. And one time, I sent them a
Christmas card and enclosed a bill in the envelope. And he actually sent
me some money! He probably took it out of his cigar money.

“It Was The Only Time I Didn’t Get Paid”

JA: While you were working for Hillman, you did “Magno” for
Ace Publications.

DiPRETA: I know I did something for Ace, but I don’t remember

anything about it.

JA: Okay. In 1944, and ’45, you worked for L.B.Cole at Holyoke
Publishing Company.

DiPRETA: Lenny Cole! He

was a little bit stocky; I don’t
think he was too tall. He was
extremely friendly to me. I
showed him my work and he
was doing covers, which he
loved doing. He’d proudly
show me those covers and they
were meticulous pieces of work.
I did a feature about a girl
named “Sherry something-or-
other”—I can’t remember the
title. I also did “Might Mite.”
Ray Herman was there, too. She
was second in command. The
offices were on 42nd Street in
New York.

Slip Me A Mickey Finn

Lank Leonard (at board), creator of the long-running newspaper strip Mickey
Finn, with Tony DiPreta, then his inker, in a 1943 photo taken in Miami Shores,
Florida. The Mickey Finn page above, an earlier one by Leonard, was reprinted
in a Quality comic—and later in a b&w English boys’ annual, from which Roger
Dicken sent it to us. The sketch at left is from the back of an image on p. 55—
a page DiPreta drew for Lev Gleason Publications, as he notes: “Back of Page 1
– Uncle Phil of Mickey Finn strip – ‘Daredevil’ – copied from Lank Leonard by
Tony.” [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
54 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them
War Is Hell
DiPreta did see some World War II action—in the pages of Magazine
Enterprises’ American Air Forces #3 (Feb. 1945), published by Vin Sullivan. This
black-&-white image was reprinted by Ron Frantz in ACE Comics’ Fantastic
Adventures #3 (Oct. 1987). [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
Sometime after that, I was going up to a new company in Columbus
Circle and that was where Ray Herman was. I don’t remember the
name of the company, but I think she owned a part of it.
JA: Was the company name Orbit?
DiPRETA: It could have been, but I’m not sure. Ray was a very nice
person. I went there, she gave me some work to do, and I left. I
remember a guy selling hot dogs at a pushcart stand. I didn’t eat too
many hot dogs, but I bought one this particular time. It had sauerkraut
on it and I remember Ray Herman saw me eating this hot dog. She
said, “You shouldn’t be eating those things.” And... [laughs] of course,
I don’t think I ever ate a hot dog from a vending stand again.
JA: Describe Ray Herman to me. [NOTE: Some spell her first name
“Rae,” but Mort Leav said she spelled it “Ray.”]
DiPRETA: She was kind-of tall, and she was built! She was blonde and
she had everything going for her. She was about 30 to 35 years old at
the time.
“Dissemination Of Public Information”
JA: You weren’t in the service during World War II, were you?
DiPRETA: No, because I had a heart murmur. It goes beyond that,
though. When I was a kid, in spite of our lack of money, my mother
believed in doctors. If I had to go the doctor, I went to the doctor. The
doctor told me that I had a heart murmur when I was 13 years old.
When the war started, I went for a physical and took along a note from
my doctor. I didn’t want to go, and I’ll tell you that some of the guys
we talked about didn’t want to go, either. So this doctor told another,
older doctor, that I had a heart murmur. That doctor looked at me,
took my form, and with a big rubber stamp, he labeled me “4-F.
Rejected.” So my fledgling art career was not nipped in the bud!
There was some sergeant there, and he must have been a redneck.
All through the examination, he stared at me for some reason; he just
didn’t like me. He probably didn’t like my attitude because I didn’t
want to be cannon fodder. He couldn’t wait to get hold of me if I had
passed that exam. He was going to show me what Army life was all
about. When I got that “4-F,” I had to wait in another line and gave
that sergeant one big smile, and he gave me one nasty look. That was
the end of that, for a while.
So I went to work for Lank Leonard, as I told you earlier. I was
working, working, working, and one day, there was an article in the
paper stating that anyone not doing war work was going to be drafted,
no matter what their physical condition was. I wasn’t anxious to give
up comics to work on a drill press in a factory. I showed the article to
Lank and expressed my unhappiness. The paper listed different jobs
that qualified as “war work.” One of them was “Dissemination of
Public Information.” I chewed down those big words and came up
with “propaganda.” I thought, “We’re doing propaganda.”
At that time, Lank was doing a story about submarines. Mickey
Finn enlisted in the submarine corps up this way in New Rome,
Connecticut. He showed the whole process of how they went through
this, that, and the other. I thought, “This could be listed under propa-
ganda,” so I went to my draft board in Stamford. And who was the
clerk but someone I went to grammar school with—she was a lovely
girl. I told her I was working on this strip, saying, “It’s for
Dissemination of Public Information,” and she said she’d bring up to
the board’s attention at the next meeting. And at that next meeting,
they decided I was doing war work and qualified for an exemption. I
was then categorized as “4-C,” and when I saw Lank, I told him that I
didn’t know what that meant.
Lank said, “I’ll find out about this right now.” He talked to
someone, who said, “Tell Tony 4-C is on the very bottom on the pile.”
And I never heard from my draft board again. I did my time with the
Army when I went on at least five or more USO trips to Japan,
Vietnam—while that war was going on—France, North Africa, among
other places. I entertained soldiers with caricatures, and I feel I did my
part. And I gave my son to the Army for ten years.
Chris Hansen was in the Coast Guard for most of the war. He was
on a cabin cruiser going up and down the New York City harbor. Then
he’d come home on his days off—he was married. I thought that
sounded good, and Bob and I went down there. I offered my services
and the guy said, “You’re too short,” and dismissed me. [laughs] That
was the only attempt I made.
JA: Tell me about about Fred Kida.
DiPRETA: Fred Kida was another very pleasant, tight-lipped guy, and
a very good artist. He paints and plays musical instruments.
JA: How was he tight-lipped?
DiPRETA: Bob and I used to get $15 a page, and the last place I
worked in comics paid $35 a page. I don’t think we were at the $35
price range yet, but whenever Bob got more money from someone, he
told me. If I got more money from somebody, I told him. So that way,
we were able to get a little more money. If you asked Fred Kida how
much Ed Cronin was paying him, he’d never tell you. Fred subscribed
to the war slogan “Keep a Tight Lip or Sink a Ship.”
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 55

Don’t Be A “Wise Guy”

Now here’s the front of the page on whose backside Tony drew Mickey Finn’s Uncle Phil (see p. 53), plus another one: a DiPreta splash and final page from
a “Little Wise Guys” story in Daredevil Comics #119 (Feb. 1955), one of the first Code-approved issues. The Wise Guys had started out as a kid gang that hung
around with the original Daredevil—but in the early 1950s they had taken over the mag completely, as super-heroes fell from favor. Repro’d from photocopies
of the original art. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: Bob told me that both of you were a little sore at Kida when you
found out that he was getting $5 a page more from Cronin than you
were.
DiPRETA: That’s right. The three of us were working there at the same
time. But Fred worked his tail off on his art and did first class work.
His sister was into fashion, and Fred always made sure that his
characters were fashionably dressed.
“Charlie Biro Was The Kingpin; Bob Wood Was
never gave any thought to the fact that Biro’s name was on the printed
comics. You know, people always talk about this being “The Golden
Age of Comics.” We never thought like that. We were too concerned
about getting a job and paying our bills. Actually, when you look back,
there was a lot of good stuff in those old comics.
Here’s how things worked. I got a script and went home to pencil it,
penciling in the dialogue so I’d know how much room I’d have left to
draw the panel. I turned in the penciled pages, which were then lettered
by Irving Watanabe. When he finished lettering, I got the pages and
inked them.

Sort-Of… Well, I Don’t Know”
JA: Tell me about working for Charlie Biro at Lev Gleason
Publications.
DiPRETA: I did the “Three Wise Guys” [NOTE: actual title: “The
Little Wise Guys”] in Daredevil for a time, among other things. And
Bob Bernstein was doing a lot of the writing for Biro. I knew that
because it was Bernstein’s name, not Biro’s, on the scripts. And Bob
Bernstein was the windiest writer that you can imagine. He wrote copy
that went deep into the panels. He was verbose. I always knew a
Bernstein script from anybody else’s.
JA: But it was Biro’s name on the printed comics, not Bernstein’s.
DiPRETA: It might be that Biro gave Bernstein a plot, or he could
have dictated the story to Bernstein, but I doubt that very much. I
One day, my mother asked if she could help me. I let her pencil-
letter in the dialogue, which made her very happy, so I put her on my
staff. [laughs] I used to pay her, and I paid her Social Security.
JA: Did you ever check out the comics when your work was printed?
DiPRETA: All the time. I loved to see my work in print.
JA: When you turned a story in, who did you give it to: Biro or Bob
Wood?
DiPRETA: I seldom ever turned in a story to Biro; it was Bob Wood—
and he hardly even looked at it. He just gave the pages to Irving to
letter. He had several women who worked there, who I think were
proofreaders. One time, one of the women was looking at a crime story
of mine. The crooks were getting out of the car and the front door
opened—the hinge was towards the motor—the front part. So the door
56 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

guy with blond, curly hair. I remember that he had a red convertible—
either a Dodge or Plymouth—which he sold to Bob Fujitani. At that
time, it was very difficult to get a car. Charlie, with his charm, got a car
from a dealer and was ready to get another car. Bob was in the market
for a car, so he bought Charlie’s red convertible. We went out to Long
Island to pick it up and drove it back. And it was snowing like hell! We
could hardly find our way back home, but we made it.

You asked about them checking out our work. One time, I brought
a story in and Biro looked at it. A crook was holding up a note that
said something like “Give me $10,000 or you’re dead.” I wrote that on
one side of the paper. The guy
reading it has the writing
facing him. Biro said, “What
the hell is this? We don’t
know what’s on the note.”

I said, “Well, what should

I have done? The guy’s got to
read the note.” Biro said,
“You could have written it
on the back side, too.”
[laughter] Who’s going to

Crime Doesn’t Pay, Can’t Win, And Must Lose—So There!

In those days, if Gleason, Biro, & Wood had Crime Does Not Pay, Martin
Goodman and Stan Lee’s Timely Comics had Crime Can’t Win. Tony D. drew
for that one, too! This page from issue #11 (June 1952). Timely also had
Crime Must Lose. Martin Goodman must’ve stayed awake nights thinking
up those titles! Repro’d from photocopies of the original art—including TD’s
sketch from the back of the page. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

swung out towards the reader. The hinge on the back door was next to
the trunk and the door swung out towards the back of the car. She
questioned me. “This is ridiculous. Car doors don’t open that way.” I
said, “Oh, yes, they do.” I had a lot of photographs of old cars, because
I spent time photographing them, and could prove what I said.

JA: That’s what good reference is for! How big were the Lev
Gleason offices?

DiPRETA: They were on 32nd Street. They had a receptionist area,

and on the right hand side was Irving Watanabe’s office. There was
another Japanese fellow lettering, and he never said anything, but he
smiled a lot. Bob Wood’s office was adjacent to theirs. There was a big
room after that, and Charlie’s office was more of an official-type of
office. To me, Charlie was the kingpin; Bob Wood was sort-of...well, I
don’t know.

JA: Biro and Wood were supposed to be partners, but you seem to
think that Biro was the senior partner.
Crime On Their Hands
DiPRETA: I’d say that he was, but I don’t know that for a fact. I
Following the post-WWII success spurt of Crime Does Not Pay, Lev Gleason’s
always had the impression that it was Bob Wood who made the initial
editors Charles Biro & Bob Wood launched a second such title: Crime and
contact with Lev Gleason, though I don’t know that for a fact. I think Punishment. Tony kept the original art for this tale from an issue of C&P.
Wood brought in Biro after that. Of course, Biro was a live wire. The Biro/Wood/Gleason comics were like little B-movies made by Warner
Bros. All they needed was Jimmy Cagney and Edward G. Robinson!
Biro was very friendly and always had a smile on his face. He was a [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
big, hulking guy and was quite the ladies’ man. He was a handsome
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 57

write a note like that on both sides of the

paper? I thought that was the dumbest thing
I ever heard, but I didn’t say that to Charlie.
I said, “Yes sir, I’ll write it on both sides.”

I was acquainted with Charlie when we

were both members of the National
Cartoonists Society. I was doing comic books
when I joined the NCS at the end of 1946,
and I dare say that I was the first comic book
artist to join. I was working for Lank
Leonard at the time, too.

Generally, only newspaper cartoonists

were members: Milton Caniff, Hal Foster,
Bill Holman... people like that. Lank was
anxious to go and talk to all those guys, but
he wanted someone to go with him. Not that
he was timid; Lank was a great diplomat and
personality. Lank said, “You know, Tony, I’m
going to try to get you in as a member so we
can go to the meetings together.” He got me
in with no trouble at all.

Russell Patterson, the great girlie
cartoonist and illustrator, was the man who Still, DiPreta had briefly drawn the costumed character “Zippo,” who appeared in Hillman’s Clue Comics #1-8
sponsored Charlie Biro’s membership. between 1942-44… and in the 1980s worked with comics fan, writer, and longtime Mad associate editor
That’s how people got in as members. Jerry DeFuccio on sketches (for a possible revival?) of the hero. This art was published in Ron Frantz’s
Fantastic Adventures #3 in 1987. [Art ©2006 Tony DiPreta.]
Charlie fit in perfectly, especially at the bar.
[laughter] Then they got the idea to get the
USO to sponsor their trips. A group would consist of five cartoonists
and one model. Basically, we did caricatures of soldiers. Charlie Biro
was one of the first guys to go on these trips, along with Russell
Patterson. Lank Leonard never went on those trips, so I really didn’t
go, until much later. These trips lasted about five weeks and I had to
have my work done before I could go. Lank Leonard was never that far
ahead. I don’t know what Charlie did on those trips, but I’m sure he
was great at it! [laughs]
JA: What do you remember about Bob Wood?
DiPRETA: He always seemed to be half out of it. Personally, I never
dealt much with Bob. I got as many scripts from Charlie as I did from
Bob. I don’t know whether that was the same situation with others or
not. I hate to say this about the guy, but he did practically nothing. He
didn’t draw anything and I never saw him doing anything creative. I
thought Bob was very sullen, and I don’t think I was one of his favorite
people in this world. I have no idea why, though. I always did my work
as best I could and got it in on time.
JA: What do you remember about their Christmas parties?
DiPRETA: I went to all of them. Charlie always wanted to give us
something special. One year, he gave us all a plaque that said, “To the
best cartoonists in the world.” It was a wooden plaque, about 8 by 10.
There was a big medallion in the middle, 3 or 4 inches in diameter.
There was an inscription in the medallion that said something about the
philosophy of comics and ends with the phrase, “This plaque is awarded
to Tony DiPreta for excellence in comic art.” Everybody got one and
they all said the same thing, except that the names were changed.
I had that plaque for years, and believe me, it’s around. The last time
I saw it, the medallion had fallen off. Boy, that thing was beautiful! If I
can find it, I’ll take a picture of it for you. But if I find it, it’ll be by
accident. I’m not the most orderly person in the world.
JA: Yeah, and what cartoonist is?
DiPRETA: Right! I just remembered something else I did for Biro,
“[Super-hero comics] Never Did Much For Me”
besides the crime and romance stuff. It was a commercial comic book
for Big Boy hamburgers. I also did one about a clown—it might have
been “Bozo the Clown.” That particular one was one of the rare times
I penciled a job for someone else to ink. We had deadlines on those,
and Biro rented a hotel room on 57th Street and set up drawing boards
for all of us who worked on these books for him. I don’t remember
who inked that job or who else was working there.
I was happy that I didn’t do super-hero comics; they never did
much for me. I could do my own work and not have to worry about
drawing something in someone else’s style. You know what I really
liked drawing? Horror comics! Boy, I was in my glory doing those
things. I also liked doing bigfoot stuff.
“Stan Lee Was Handing Me Work Right And Left”
JA: You told me about working for Timely, but they didn’t really
become a big account for you until 1950.
DiPRETA: That was a period of time when Stan Lee was handing me
work right and left. I did crime stories, weird and horror stories, some
Westerns, some war—I did whatever he wanted me to.
JA: The titles your work appeared in are varied: Police Action,
Spellbound, Strange Tales, Tales of Justice, World of Fantasy,
Journey into Mystery, Menace, All True Crime, Amazing
Adventures, Battlefront, Battleground, Crime Must Lose, Crime
Can’t Win... the list goes on and on. You were everywhere!
DiPRETA: Stan Lee must have really liked me. [laughs] I always dealt
with Stan. I know there were other editors around, but Stan was my
editor. Stan was a great guy; always happy and always smiling—he
never criticized anything I ever did.
I never spent any time in the offices, except for delivering and
picking up work. Once, I went to a Christmas party at his home, along
with some other cartoonists. I think Dan DeCarlo was there, and even
though it wasn’t a big party, I can’t remember who else was there.
58 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them

there without my wife. I only

went there when the deadlines
were tight. Otherwise, he
mailed the strips to me in
Connecticut and I’d work
through the night to get them
done, then deliver them the
next morning. And boy, they
liked that! If anybody wants
to know the secret of success
in that field—it’s that you
must deliver the work on
time. Mildred liked me
because I delivered!

One day, I got a call from

Lank Leonard’s wife. She said,
“Lank is in the hospital. His
appendix burst and you have
to come down.” I said I’d be
right down, and Miss Bella got
me a flight down to Florida.
The syndicate knew about
Lank’s situation—that he was
in the hospital and couldn’t
work. Up until this time, I had
never penciled Mickey Finn;
“You Know What I Really Liked Drawing? Horror comics!” all I ever did was ink the strip,
That’s what Tony D. says, and we’ll take him at his word. Here are two examples of same from Timely—the one on and I didn’t even ink the faces.
the left definitely pre-Code, the other most likely post-Code, and both ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.: Lank said, “Tony, you can do
(Left:) “One Foot in the Grave” was reprinted in black-&-white, with gray tones added, in Marvel’s Monsters Unleashed! #1
it. Just go into the files, take a
(1973). Editor Roy Thomas recognized DiPreta’s name from the Joe Palooka strip, and had several of his comic book efforts Sunday strip out, and revise
reprinted in those mags. But we wonder—was “Edward Hannigan” really the name on the tombstone in the 1950s comic, or it.” I did just that and came up
was that added by the young comic artist who would soon make a name for himself doing cover layouts for Marvel and DC? with a new page. I sent the
(Right:) The considerably milder “When the Eggs Hatch!” is reprinted from the Alan Class mags published in England strip to New York and they
in the latter 1970s—we can tell because there’s an ad on the inside front cover for medallions featuring Spider-Man, were delighted. Then I did the
the Hulk, and Conan the Barbarian. This story popped up in Class’ Secrets of the Unknown #143. Thanks to Aussie dailies, which Lank wrote
collector and comics biographer Daniel Best. from his hospital bed. Again,
the people in New York were
In later years, I used to brag to my son that I knew Stan Lee. My
delighted, and they knew I did them. People always wonder who does
son was a collector of comic books, and once I encouraged him to
what on a strip.
write Stan a letter and mention my name. He did, but never got an
answer. Some time later, I was at a Christmas party at King Features, At this time, the estate of Ham Fisher had the Chase National Bank
and in popped Stan Lee. [laughs] I gave him hell for not giving my son as trustees. The people doing Joe Palooka were wanting a better deal;
an autograph, which embarrassed him, so he gave me one for my son. their contract was coming up, and there was some bickering going on.
The Syndicate called me up and asked if I was interested in doing it. I
JA: You also did Beetle Bailey comics for Dell from 1957 until 1959.
said I was. When the last of the strips were done by the guys doing
DiPRETA: I didn’t do those for Dell. I did those directly for Mort Palooka—and it was in the middle of a story—they got a new writer
Walker, who lived right around the corner from me at the time. Mort and I was the new artist. I did the strip for 25 years. We had a number
was a saint! He gave me all the money and didn’t keep a cent for of writers, but for about the last 15 years, I wrote the dailies and
himself. He didn’t need the money and was just as happy to make sure Sundays, too. I did the strip from 1959 until November 1984.
he had a good product coming out.
I left the strip because it had lost so many papers and I was tired of
doing it. I decided to retire—can you imagine that? In 1984! My local
“In 1959, I Got The Joe Palooka Strip” paper got the news that Joe Palooka was going to end and decided to
do a feature story on it. The editor put it on the press wire. No sooner
JA: Why did you quit doing comic books? than the story appeared that I was blitzed by radio stations, CBS, NBC,
and ABC. They all came over to my studio, one at a time, and did
DiPRETA: In 1959, I got the Joe Palooka strip. Mickey Finn had been
features on me doing the last of Joe Palooka. I was on Good Morning
my side job; I worked two days a week for Lank Leonard on that. You
America and other shows. The newspapers carried the story. I thought
want to know how I got the Joe Palooka job? It’s a long story, but I’ll
that, when I quit the strip, nobody would care. But they did care.
tell it to you. Mildred Bella was the editor for the McNaught Syndicate.
Whenever the deadline was tight on Mickey Finn, I personally The syndicate was unhappy that I was quitting because they wanted
delivered the work—otherwise I’d just mail the work in after I inked it. to make a movie about Joe Palooka and it’d be a difficult sell if there
was no newspaper strip. They even had Nick Nolte lined up to play the
I used to go to Florida with Lank Leonard and work with him there
part, just in case the movie got made. They did not want me to quit and
every winter. After a while, I cut that out, because it was so lonesome
 “We Were A Very Happy Group” 59

asked me to do one more story. I said

I was out of ideas, but I was talked
into it, so Joe Palooka had one more
fight. I drew my entire family in the
strip the last week, and Joe Palooka
retired and went back home to
Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.

JA: That’s what you were supposed

to do, but instead, you went on to
do Rex Morgan, M.D.
Tony & Joe
DiPRETA: That’s right. Even Tony in 1966, drawing the Ham Fisher-created
before I gave up Joe Palooka, Dr. Joe Palooka, in Old Greenwich, Connecticut,
Nick Dallis, who wrote Rex surrounded by daughter Janet, wife Frances,
Morgan, M.D., called me and said, and son Edward; another son, Richard, was not
“I got your name from Alex yet born. In this undated daily, Joe is still the
Kotzky and was wondering if you heavyweight champ, as he had been for
were interested in drawing Rex decades—but soon, to meet changing public
tastes, he’d hang up the gloves and become a
Morgan.” I told him that I just gave
golf-playing family man. Wonder if Tony
up Joe Palooka and was retiring. played golf…! [Photo ©2006 Tony DiPreta; Joe
He said, “Okay,” and that was that. Palooka art ©2006 McNaught Syndicate, Inc.,
or successors in interest.]
Then I called my wife and said,
“Frances, this guy named Nick how Lou Fine couldn’t break down? Well, Alex could really break
Dallis called me up and asked me to draw Rex Morgan. The money’s down. He knew how to make everything interesting and worked very,
good.” She asked me what my answer was and I told her I wasn’t inter- very hard. He didn’t even know what it looked like outside of his
ested. So she called our daughter, who was just getting out of college studio. [laughs]
and was planning on going to medical school. She said, “What is he?
Crazy? Tell him to take that job, because I want to go to medical JA: I know it’s hard to believe, but I forgot to ask you a question.
school.” [laughter] Well, I said, “Okay,” and I called Dallis back and Around 1973 until 1977, you worked for Charlton Comics.
told him I had changed my mind.
DiPRETA: Oh, yeah! At that point in time, I needed money because I
Now, it was Gill Fox who told Alex Kotzky to call me. Alex was was putting my daughters through school. Jay Roberge, Mort Walker’s
drawing Apartment 3-G, which Nick had created and was writing. I assistant on Beetle Bailey, told me that Charlton Press needed artists. I
did Rex Morgan for 14 years. I put two kids through medical school went to see them and started working on The Great Gazoo and
with that strip. I also put another one through law school. Of all the Flintstones comics. I wrote and drew and maybe even lettered them.
things I’ve done in my life, that was the most important to me. I’ve had That was a money-maker for me, because it was bigfoot stuff, which I
a good career, but I am most proud of my daughter and two sons. could do very easily.

JA: I can understand that, because family is what matters most. By
the way, tell me about Alex Kotzky.
DiPRETA: Alex Kotzky was a genius. Seven other people had tried out
for Rex Morgan, but Dallis didn’t like their work. I guess I got the job
because they ran out of people to try. [laughs] In the beginning, I
would go see Alex and show him what I was doing on the strip, while I
got my feet wet. When he had time, he’d critique my work. He’d say,
“Don’t just have Rex stand there talking. Have him drink a cup of
coffee.” He was great at things like that. Remember what I said about
My editor was George Wildman, who also did the Popeye comic
books. George was an amiable guy who was very proud of his Popeye.
I stopped doing those books because they canceled the titles.
JA: What do you do these days?
DiPRETA: I’m completely retired now, though I paint for
fun. I paint mostly Hawaiian landscapes. My wife and I
travel a lot and enjoy life. I tell you, it’s the greatest thing
to go around the world and see what’s there. There’s a lot
to see!

The Doctor Is Still “In”

Ye Editor was pleased as Punch and Judy to receive this inscribed original daily of Rex Morgan, M.D.
from Tony D. The self-caricature at left was done in the 1990s. [Caricature ©2006 Tony DiPreta;
Rex Morgan ©2006 McNaught Syndicate or its successors in interest.]
60 Tony DiPreta On Comic Books, Comic Strips, & The People Behind Them
TONY DiPRETA Checklist
[This Checklist is adapted from information supplied by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of American Comic Books 1928-99. See
facing page for information on this invaluable website. Names of features which appeared both in comic books of that particular title and also
in other comics are generally not italicized below, e.g., Silly Seal and Ziggy Pig. Reprint comics are generally not listed. Some data below was
provided by Tony DiPreta, via Jim Amash. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (let) = lettering; (d) = daily
newspaper comic strip (Mon. through Sat.); (S) = Sunday newspaper comic strip.]
Name: Anthony Louis DiPreta (b. 1921) (artist)
Education: Silvermine Guild (art school); writing at Columbia
University, NYC, and University of Connecticut
Influences: Lank Leonard
Member: National Cartoonists Society
Print Media (non-comics): illustrator: advertising – Electrolux,
Georgia Pacific, General Foods 1975-90
Fine Arts: mosaic murals for church in Stamford, CT; painter – water-
colors (studied with Herb Olsen)
Promotional Comics: Popeye (a) 1972/75 for King Features Syndicate
– Career Awareness Program
Syndicated Credits (newspaper comic strips): Joe Palooka
(d)(S)(w/a) 1972-84 for McNaught Syndicate; Mickey Finn (d)(S?)(asst
a) 1942-59 for McNaught Syndicate; Rex Morgan, M.D. (d)(S)(a) 1983-
The Voice Of The Turtle Cries “Werewolf!”
Tony and wife Frances in a 2002 photo; they’ve retired to Turtle
Bay, Oahu, Hawaii…and clearly, it’s aptly named. And, just because
he says he really dug drawing horror comics, here’s the final page
from “Wanted: One Werewolf” from Journey into Mystery #15.
[Photo ©2006 Tony DiPreta; art ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
99+ for Field Enterprises/News America Syndicate/North America
Syndicate (name changes due to mergers/purchases); Tim Tyler’s Luck
(let) for King Features Syndicate – dates unknown.
COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers):
Comics Studio (Shop): L.B. Cole Studio (a) 1944-45
Ace Periodicals: Magno (a) 1945
Archie Publications: The Hangman (a) 1942-43
Aviation Press: Contact Comics (a) 1945
Charlton Comics: covers (a) 1973-77; The Flintstones (w/a/let)
1974-76; The Great Gazoo (w/a/let) 1973-77; Popeye (w/a/let) 1972
Dell Publications: Beetle Bailey (a) 1957-59 – done through
Mort Walker
Hillman Periodicals: Airboy (a) 1943-46; backup feature (a) 1944 in
Airboy Comics; The Boy King (a) 1944; Buttons the Rabbit (a) 1944-
45; Captain Codfish (a) 1942-46, 1948; crime (a) 1948; Earl the Rich
Rabbit (a) 1947; Fatsy McPig (a) 1944-45; The Flying Dutchman (p/i)
1943, 1946; The Iron Ace (a) 1944; Private Skinny McGinty (a) 1943-47;
Stupid Manny (a) 1942-44, 1946; Wun Wing Span (a) 1942 filler; Zippo
(a) 1943
Holyoke Publications: Mighty Mite (a) 1945-46; Power Comics (a)
1944; Suspense Comics (a) 1944-46 [imprint: ET-ES-GO]
Lev Gleason Publications: crime (a) 1954-55; Crime and Punishment
(a) 1948-53; Crime Does Not Pay (a/some w) 1948-50; Dangerous Dan
(a) no date; Daredevil (a) 1940s; Desperado (a) 1949; Little Wise Guys
(a) 1955; romance (a) 1950-51; Western (a) 1950
Magazine Enterprises: American Air Forces c. 1943; US Marines (a)
1944-45
Marvel/Timely Comics: Adventures into Terror (a) 1952-53;
Adventures into Weird Worlds (a) 1952-54; All True Crime Cases (a)
1951; Amazing Detective Cases (a) 1951-52; Astonishing (a) 1952,
1954, 1957; backup features (a) for Western Kid and Billy Buckskin
Western; Battlefront (a) 1956; Battleground (a) 1954; Billy Buckskin
(a) 1955; Crime Can’t Win (a) 1951-52; Crime Cases Comics (a) 1951-
52; Crime Exposed (a) 1952; filler (a) 1957; Homer the Happy Ghost
(a) 1957-58; Journey into Mystery (a) 1952, 1956-57; Journey into
Unknown Worlds (a) 1955, 1957; Justice Comics (a) 1952-54; Marvel
Tales (p/i) 1952-54; Matt Slade (a) 1956; Menace (a) 1954; Mystery
Tales (a) 1952-56; Mystic (a) 1952-56; Mystical Tales (a) 1957; Police
Action (a) 1954; romance (a) 1951;
Silly Seal and Ziggy Pig (a) c. 1945;
Spellbound (a) 1952-54; Strange
Stories of Suspense (a) 1957; Strange
Tales (a) 1952-57; Strange Tales of
the Unusual (a) 1957; Suspense (a)
1950, 1952; Tales of Justice (a) 1956;
Two-Gun Western (a) 1957;
Uncanny Tales (a) 1953-54, 1956;
war (a) 1951-56; World of Fantasy
(a) 1956-57; World of
Suspense (a) 1956-57;
Young Men (a) 1951;
Ziggy Pig (a) 1941,
1944-46
 In Memoriam 61
trated the adventures of quite a few

Alex Toth of them, including Green Lantern,

Dr. Mid-Nite, The Atom, and The
Justice Society of America. By this
time he’d fallen under the spell of
“The Artist’s Artist” the newspaper work of Milton
Caniff, Frank Robbins, and Noel
Sickles, his lifelong idol. “What I
(1928-2006) gained from Noel,” he’s said, “was
an appreciation for economy,
clarity, line, mass, pattern,
by Ron Goulart perspective, dramatic movement,
We’re sorry to announce that Alex Toth, the legendary artist who has subtlety, light source and drop
been a regular contributor to Alter Ego for the past few years, passed shadow mechanics, negative and
away on May 27. Although the interview he and I had recently positive silhouette values, shapes
discussed was destined never to come to pass, our December issue and the overlapping of same,
(#63) will be a special tribute to this comics genius. The following tension.” Toth’s stuff in this period
Alex Toth in the 1970s, and
piece by comics historian Ron Goulart appeared in his 1986 book The is very good, but he still looks like a
(below) original pencils from
Great Comic Book Artists [Vol. 1]; it is © 1986, 2006 by RG and gifted disciple of the Caniff school. Superman Special #9 (1983),
reprinted with his permission. —Roy. He hadn’t yet assimilated all that illustrating the master’s minimalist
Sickles had to teach. His work

O
magic. Thanks to Al Dellinges.
ne of the real mavericks of comics, Alex Toth has been in the stood out, though, and he was soon [Art ©2006 DC Comics.]
business for forty years and has yet to settle into a rut. His a star at DC.
next job won’t be exactly like the last one, and you can be
Toth moved around a good deal in the 1950s, changing his style
certain he won’t be drawing next year the way he was last year. He
several times. He likes to quote some advice Roy Crane once gave
considers himself to be still learning and believes that the most
him—“Don’t draw too much into each panel. Throw out everything
important ability an artist can develop is “the ability to tell the story.”
you don’t need to tell the story!” He did some exceptional work for an
Toth’s restlessness, his need to push into new areas and try new ways of
issue of Crime and Punishment, using doubletone paper to get his
telling his stories, coupled with his willingness to speak up for his
depth effects. He drew romance comics for several publishers, devel-
views, have kept him from settling into a comfortable niche. This has
oping a fresh, cinematic approach that other artists went on imitating
meant that the majority of comics fans, who tend to favor year-in-year-
for years. He ghosted the Casey Ruggles newspaper strip, spent some
out consistency in their cartoonists, have been more perplexed than
time in the service, and then settled in Southern California. From the
enthusiastic about his work. In the introduction to a Toth interview
middle 1950s into the 1960s, he did most of his comic book work for
published in Graphic Story Magazine in 1970, Gil Kane implied that
Dell-Western. Toth’s specialty was comic book adaptations of movies
Toth—“one of the finest artists comics ever produced”—was not for
and television shows—Zorro, 77 Sunset Strip, Rio Bravo, Sea Hunt,
the average reader and was basically an artist’s artist. Fifteen years later,
The FBI Story, The Real McCoys, etc. He was constantly experi-
The Comic Journal reprinted the
menting, even with the basic tools he
interview under the title “Still the
used. He was one of the first in comics
‘Artist’s Artist.’” This may be the tag
to use a Rapidograph pen and the now
that’ll stick to Toth for the rest of his
fairly common markers.
career.
Living in Southern California, Toth
Alexander Toth was born in New
became interested in animation. He did
York City in 1928. An only child, he
his first work in the field in 1964 and has
found himself with a lot of time to fill:
been in and out of it ever since, mostly
“I began to doodle at age three, but
as a character design man for outfits like
couldn’t sell a thing until I was fifteen.”
Hanna-Barbera. He still works in comic
He attended the High School of
books now and then. He did some
Industrial Arts, where he rubbed
excellent artwork for the Warren black-
shoulders with other would-be
&-whites. His major job there was
cartoonists. While still in high school,
“Bravo for Adventure” in The Rook,
he started getting assignments from
which allowed him to indulge his
Steve Douglas at Famous Funnies, Inc.
fondness for the 1930s, airplanes, and the
This consisted of two- and three-page
movies. It’s no coincidence that Jesse
stories and spot illustrations for text
Bravo, the daredevil stunt flyer, looks an
fillers in Heroic Comics. In 1947, after
awful lot like Errol Flynn. Toth has also
“pestering” him for several years, Toth
worked for European publishers, on
was hired by Sheldon Mayer to work
features like Torpedo 1936. Toward the
for the All-American division of DC.
end of that 1970 interview, he admitted,
“He was terrific,” Toth has said of his
“I expected to have done a lot more with
editor. “Warm, wildly funny, unpre-
it than I have. I am my biggest disap-
dictable from moment to moment, and
pointment.” It’s that disappointment, of
with a great flair for dramatic impact
course, that keeps him going
and zany antics.”
and keeps him always
The super-heroes were still thriving several lengths ahead of the
in those early postwar years. Toth illus- pack.
62 In Memoriam!

Dick Rockwell
(1920-2006)
“He Deserved More Time In The Spotlight Than He Received”
by Mark Evanier
C omic book/comic strip artist Richard Waring Rockwell passed away on
Tuesday, April 18, at the age of 85.

Dick was a charming gentleman who lived too much of his life in
From The West To The Wild Blue Yonder
Dick Rockwell, and samples of both his comic book and comic strip
work: a bylined splash page from Lev Gleason’s Black Diamond
Western #32 (March 1952)—and a domesticated Steve Canyon daily
the shadow of others. His name was rarely mentioned without noting that he
for June 14, 1957, which no doubt he largely ghosted for Milt
was (a) the nephew of the great illustrator Norman Rockwell, and (b) Milton Caniff. Thanks to Michael Dewalley for the comic book page.
Caniff’s uncredited ghost on the Steve Canyon newspaper strip for some 35 [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
years.

Dick began his comic book career in 1948 working for Stan Lee at what was
then called Timely Comics. He also drew for Lev Gleason, Dell, and several
other publishers before (and occasionally after) connecting in 1952 with Caniff.

The way the story is told, Rockwell applied for membership in the National
Cartoonists Society, which involved submitting a sample of his work. Caniff,
who was then in charge of looking over applications, saw Rockwell’s art and
immediately called him to say he qualified for membership and to ask if he was
available for work. Rockwell was… and he was soon drawing a lot more of
Caniff’s strip than Caniff was. For much of the next 3.5 decades, Milton would
write the strip, Rockwell would pencil and ink in everything but the main
characters, and then the art would go to Caniff, who would finish things off
and retouch wherever he deemed necessary.

After Caniff passed away in 1988, Rockwell brought the strip to a proper
close and then turned his attention to his other projects. All the time he’d been
working on Steve Canyon, he had also been drawing editorial cartoons, illus-
trating books, and working intermittently as a courtroom sketch artist.

Dick also taught art for over thirty years at New York University and the
Parsons School of Design, and had recently been teaching at the Fashion
Institute of Technology in New York City.

I was privileged to work with Dick on a few projects, including a

Blackhawk story of mine that he illustrated. He was a dedicated professional
who deserved more time in the spotlight than he received.

[A full-scale interview with Dick Rockwell, conducted by Jim Amash a year

or two ago, will see print in an early issue of Alter Ego. Our
thanks to Mark Evanier for his permission to reprint this short
piece, with minor editing, from his website newsfromme.com.]
©2006 DC Comics

Justice Society of America Characters TM & ©2006 DC Comics

64 Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Art by Gil Kane & Murphy Anderson

Twice-Told Gilbert!
by Michael T. Gilbert
We’ve seen numerous examples of comic book recycling in
previous installments of the Comic Crypt. For simplicity’s
sake, I call any such creative reworking a Twice-Told Tale.

Sometimes cartoonists recycle older art to save time or

money. Sometimes they just do it for fun. What comics fan
hasn’t looked at a favorite cover and wished they could have
drawn it? Or wondered how it would look if he had?

Long-time fan Fred Hembeck has redrawn numerous

covers over the years, and even pros like Neal Adams have
been inspired to re-create favorite covers they admired from
their youth. Such homages are not surprising. After all, most

[All characters this page TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

Art by Fred Hembeck. Art by Bob Kane. Art by Neal Adams.

 Twice-Told Gilbert! 65

Previous page: Cover of Green Lantern #20 (April 1963), by Gil Kane
and Murphy Anderson (top left)—plus (top right) my Golden Age
re-creation thereof. (Bottom left:) Fred Hembeck’s re-do.
(Bottom right:) The cover of Detective Comics #31 (Sept. 1939) by Bob
Kane, and Neal Adams’ stunning re-do for Batman #227 (Dec. 1970).
This Page: (Bottom left:) Steve Ditko’s unused cover to Amazing
Spider-Man #10 (March 1964). (Bottom right:) The published cover
by Ditko and Jack Kirby. Ditko drew The Enforcers; Spidey was
penciled by Kirby and perhaps inked by Ditko (or maybe, Jim
Amash suggests, by Sol Bgrodsky).

cartoonists were fans long before they were pros. Such re-
creations are an indulgence—but a fun one!

I’m as culpable as anyone when it comes to doing such

tributes. Consider it my guilty pleasure. Take for example, my
Twice-Told Green Lantern cover on the facing page.

Earlier this year, collector Craig Popplewells commis-

sioned me to draw a pin-up featuring the Golden Age Green
Lantern and Flash. His request immediately brought to mind
a series of classic Flash/Green Lantern crossovers in the early
’60s, so I suggested re-doing one of those covers, but
replacing the featured Silver Age heroes with their Golden
Age counterparts. I also added GL’s original 1940s logo for a
more authentic look.

Twice-Told Ditko!
Then there’s my piece done for Ron Lim (the fan, the not
the cartoonist of the same name!). Ron requested a picture of
Spider-Man battling The Enforcers for his online Spider-Man
gallery. Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby first drew The Enforcers
on the cover of Amazing Spider-Man #10, seen at bottom
near-left. However, editor Stan Lee had previously rejected an
earlier version by Ditko (bottom far-left), making the
published cover a Twice-Told one. I thought it might be fun
to try a Thrice-Told cover—as seen at top left.

I had a great time on that project—and why not? Steve

[Spider-Man & Enforcers TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
Ditko remains one of my strongest influences. His brilliant
storytelling and unpretentious drawings are truly inspiring,
particularly his classic ’50s and ’60s work for Marvel and
Charlton. Whenever I’m offered a chance to “channel” his art
on a project, I take it. Last year my good friend and fellow
Ditko-maniac Batton Lash made me an offer I couldn’t
refuse.

When not publishing his own Supernatural Law comic,

Bat scripts the Simpsons spin-off super-hero spoof
Radioactive Man for Bongo Comics. Last year, Bat wrote
and penciled three short “Radioactive Man” stories,
parodying some early-1960s “Captain Atom” tales originally
scripted by Joe Gill and drawn by Steve Ditko for Charlton
comics. When Bat asked me if I’d be interested in inking his
Twice-Told Take-offs in my best pseudo-Ditko style, he
didn’t have to ask twice! (See next page.)

Another Twice-Told Tale also involved Steve Ditko. In

1953 Steve drew his first comic book story, “Stretching
Things,” for Farrell’s Fantastic Fears #5. (It was reprinted in
Mr. Monster #6.)

Almost forty years later, Bruce Hamilton began a short-

lived line of black-&-white comics, Hamilton Comics.
Knowing Bruce was the very person who had scripted
[©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
66 Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!
Steve Ditko’s “Captain Atom” splash panel from Charlton’s
Space Adventures #33 (March 1960). [©2006 DC Comics.]
“Stretching Things” in 1953, I convinced him to let me write and draw
a sequel, recapping the original and then continuing it. Though
Hamilton Comics folded before “Revenge of the Boneless Man!” could
see print, it finally came out earlier this year in a Mr. Monster special
from Atomeka.
(Above:) Ditko’s splash for “Stretching Things” from Fantastic Fears #5
(Jan. 1954). The villain dissolves into a puddle of gooey flesh in the final
panel. Ikk! [©2006 the respective copyright holder.]
Lash and Gilbert’s parody from Bongo’s Simpson’s Super Spectacular #1
(Sept. 2005). [©2006 Bongo Comics.\]
Twice-Told Terror!
And, of course, how could I resist doing a Twice-Told “Mr.
Monster” story? In 1947, cartoonist Fred Kelly had Doc battle “The
Terror of Trezma!” in Mr. Monster’s only Golden Age appearance.
Decades later, I retold part of that story in my Mr. Monster: Origins
graphic novel. Looking back, I still find Fred Kelly’s straightforward
(Above:) But he’s back in Gilbert’s sequel, “Revenge of the Boneless Man!”
in Atomeka’s Mister Monster: Who Watches The Garbagemen? (Jan. 2006).
[©2006 Michael T. Gilbert]
 Twice-Told Gilbert! 67

An action page from Fred Kelly’s “The Terror of Trezma!” from Super Duper Comics #3 (May 1947), and Gilbert’s re-do from Mr. Monster, Vol. 2, #1 (Feb. 1988).
[Art at left ©2006 the respective copyright holders; page at right ©2006 Michael T. Gilbert.]

bullet-in-the-head approach the more powerful version.

That’s it for now. I hope you enjoyed my little Twice-Told art

gallery. And before anyone asks… yes, I do occasionally take art
commissions like the ones you’ve just seen. These generally go in the
$200-$500 range, depending on complexity. For more information,
write to me at: mgilbert00@comcast.net

While you’re at it, feel free to ask for a free e-mail catalogue filled
with all kinds of neat “Mr. Monster” products. We still have copies of
Mr. Monster #6 from 1986 (with the reprint of Ditko’s “Stretching
Things!”), as well as a recently-published Mr. Monster special from
Atomeka, featuring my sequel, “Revenge of the Boneless Man!” It’ll
melt your bones!

Next issue, we’ve conjured up some Twice-Told “Dr. Strange”

covers-that-never-were. You Ditko-maniacs won’t want to miss this
one!

Till next time…

Turn the page to see Michael T.’s sequel to this Howard Sherman
cover for More Fun Comics #56 (June 1940)! [©2006 DC Comics.]
68 Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Bonus points!
These aren’t
exactly Twice-Told
covers, but we
thought you’d
enjoy them! This
imaginary All-Star
Comics #31 cover
at left, first
printed in Alter
Ego #14, illustrates
an unpublished
mid-1940s “Justice
Society” story,
“The Will of
William Wilson.”
And the imaginary
More Fun Comics
cover at right, a
sequel to that of
More Fun #56, was
drawn in April
2006 for collector
Deane Aikins. [JSA,
Dr. Fate, Spectre, &
Wotan TM & ©2006
DC Comics.]
 Comic Fandom Archive 69

The Fabulous ’40s – The First

Full Decade Of Comic Books
A Panel Discussion With OTTO BINDER, LARRY IVIE,
TED WHITE—And, For The First And Only Time,
KLAUS NORDLING
Part VII of “1966: The Year Of (Nearly) Three New York Comics Conventions”
Edited by Bill Schelly (with Roy Thomas) Transcribed by Brian K. Morris
either in print or in public, and there
Introduction were virtually no true reference works

A s reported in previous install-

ments of this series (which
began in issue #53), the first of
three seminal comics conventions held
on comic books.

Thus, Benson put together a panel

composed of moderator Ted White
(already a professional writer, though
in New York City between mid-1966 in non-comics fields such as jazz
and very early 1967 was hosted by criticism and science-fiction), Larry
comics historian John Benson in July Ivie (a knowledgeable fan artist and
of ’66. Although by then certain basic writer who had done scripts for Marvel
facts about the history of comic books had and Tower and would soon publish his
been clearly established, it must be remem- own pro magazine, Monsters and Heroes),
bered that only a small number of comics Otto Binder (Golden Age scripter of
professionals who had been active during Fawcett’s “Captain Marvel” and other
the Golden Age had ever been interviewed, features, who in the mid-’60s was writing

…And Four To Go!

Panelists (l. to r.) Klaus Nordling…
Otto Binder… Larry Ivie… and
moderator Ted White—juxtaposed
with: (a) a Nordling “Lady Luck”
splash… (b) the first meeting of the
World’s Mightiest Mortal and Oggar,
the World’s Mightiest Immortal, in
Captain Marvel Adventures #61 (May
24, 1946) with story by Binder, art by
C.C. Beck… and (c) the climactic
page from Ivie’s solo scripting foray
for Marvel, from Strange Tales #132
(May 1965), with art by Bob Powell
& Mike Esposito. Ted White was
about to commence writing the
Captain America prose novel The
Great Gold Steal. [Lady Luck art
©2006 Will Eisner Studios; CMA art
©2006 DC Comics; Human Torch/
Thing art ©2006 Marvel Characters,
Inc.; photo ©2006 Jack C. Harris.]
70 Klaus Nordling

for the “Superman” group of comics at DC), and artist/writer Klaus

Nordling. Nordling was noted especially for his work done directly
for Quality Comics in the 1940s and early ’50s, and on the feature
Lady Luck, which for most of the ’40s had appeared each week in
the Sunday Spirit newspaper comics supplement, which was
packaged by Spirit creator Will Eisner.

We take you back now to July 24th, 1966, at the Park Sheraton
Hotel in midtown Manhattan, courtesy of John Benson’s audio
tapes. Partly because of the poor sound quality of this particular
tape, and partly because so much of the information divulged on the
panel has been covered extensively elsewhere since (e.g., Otto
Binder’s remarks partly duplicated those he made at David Kaler’s
1965 comicon, as transcribed in the still-available Alter Ego #20), we
have concentrated on the part of the panel which featured Klaus
Nordling—who had appeared at no previous convention and, to the
best of our knowledge, never again appeared at a comicon before his
death twenty years later. Considerable editing has been necessary,
because certain words, or even sections, were unintelligible on the
tape to transcriber Brian Morris, Fandom Archive editor Bill Schelly,
and A/E editor Roy Thomas, all of whom went over it with a fine-
tooth comb. Here and there,
the latter will briefly
interrupt the proceedings to
advise (in italics) of some
uncertainty.

Our focus here on

Nordling is not in any way
meant to slight the other
members of the panel. Larry
Ivie gave the mostly-young,
Marvel-and-DC-oriented
audience an informed
overview of the Golden Age
of Comic Books; and Otto
(Eando) Binder had some
wry things to say about the
Big Red Cheese. For
instance, when first intro-
duced by Ted White, Otto reminded people that he had not created
the super-hero with whom he was so closely associated from 1941-53:
“I didn’t make Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel made me!”
Mid-point in the panel, Ted White asked Klaus Nordling to speak:
KLAUS NORDLING: Dealing with the artists of that time, and the
writers—it was like a big plant with a lot of camaraderie and a lot of
fun and a lot of bounce and vitality. And I haven’t been in this business
for, oh, 15 years, so I don’t know what it’s like today, but if it’s
anything like it used to be…!
One thing I thought of while listening is that the comic books in the
’40s had a much bigger impact on the social scene than they do today.
That’s because there wasn’t television then…. [several unintelligible
words] I don’t mean that the impact was either good or bad, but there
was some squabbling about it. There was a lot of censorship that was
threatening all the time. Actual censorship never did happen, except
they did form a little self—what do you call it?—
LARRY IVIE: Self-censorship.
NORDLING: —self-censoring body for a while, at the end of the ’40s.
But there were parents who were tearing up their kids’ magazines—and
even some of us, ourselves, thought they weren’t worth much anyway.
I threw a lot of my own stuff away that I wish I had today.
IVIE: That’s why they’re all rare.
Cartoonists & Detectives
Klaus Nordling, circa 1958, at a time when he was directing and acting
in stage productions—and a splash he signed “Nord” for a 1940s story of
“Pen Miller,” the “cartoonist-detective.” The publicity still, taken by one
James F. Dugan, appeared in ACE Comics Presents… #3 (see next caption);
courtesy of Ron Frantz. Thanks to Shane Foley for the art, from an Australian
reprint. [Art & photo ©2006 the respective copyright holders.]
NORDLING: [Parents’ Magazine?] kept a monthly list of which
comic books were taboo and which you were permitted to let the
children read. Of course, they had the driest stuff—the “historical”
things. Straight history, not comedy—no blood, no guts, or anything.
But they were on the top of the list. But, of course, hardly any of the
kids that I knew read those things. What would happen is you’d go to
Grand Central and you’d find a parent buying the historical things—
Bible stories for the kids to read on the train—where the kids are
looking at all the other stuff, especially the ones that had a blonde on
the cover.
Now, as far as all the titles you mentioned, they were around all
through this period. A lot of fly-by-night publishing companies came
up. They’d publish maybe one or two or three months. With so many
books on the stands, everybody started losing a little, and these fly-by-
nights would probably be out for a while. And then, a few weeks later,
you’d have some more fly-by-nights. The outfit I was with, the
Quality Comics Group, managed to last all through the period, up
until around ’51, I think. When television came in—when did it start,
really? About ’49 or something like that—that’s when TV programs
started affecting the comic book sales. [NOTE: Actually, “Busy”
Arnold’s Quality Comics lasted through 1956, though with
decreasing circulation and distribution.] So a lot of even the old-time
companies started folding, because sales just didn’t keep up.
Now as far as myself, if anybody’s interested in any of the titles that
 The Fabulous ’40s 71

And I did a series called “Bob and Swab”—[one] about a boxer, a

heavyweight champion, “Kid Dixon”—“Greasemonkey Griffin,”
airplane stories—“Shot and Shell,” a couple of adventurers; “Spark
Stevens,” a radio Navy man; “Powder Burns,” an adventurer; “Lt.
Drake,” Navy stories; “Crash, Cork, and the Baron”—that was a real
clinker! That was the first thing I ever did. When I look at that stuff, I
don’t recognize my [unintelligible]. “Wonder Boy” was a take-off on a
young Superman; “Shorty Shortcake” was funny animals. As a matter
of fact, if I read you [Larry Ivie’s earlier remarks?] correctly, my
animal stories may have become musical animated features, is that
right? And what else have I got here? [Unintelligible name of series]—
that’s not important. [audience laughs] Then I wrote a few things. I
did “Buckskin Benson” for the publisher that did Airboy…

IVIE: Hillman.

NORDLING: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now [all] that was a lot of work.
When I look back on it, I wonder how the heck did I ever manage to
produce all that stuff? But I used to think it easy, and they were a lot of
fun because I had a free hand. And another thing I might bring up—
most of these yarns, in that period anyway, were done sort-of serious. I
don’t mean that anybody took them serious, but they were written and
drawn seriously, whereas there were a few like myself—and Jules
Feiffer, incidentally, did some for the Quality comic books… [unintel-
ligible comment from Otto Binder]

Yeah, I remember he [Feiffer or someone else?] never used his own

name, but he did something. A few of us, and I, especially—my attack
was never to take my own stuff quite seriously. But later on, I started
poking fun at my own stories, a sort of tongue-in-cheek approach, and
I tried to introduce an element of satire into things. I can’t keep my
mind, for instance, on my cooking or counterfeiting or chewing gum or
anything, and I try to play up a story around that and make a satire of

With Frantz Like These…

Nordling splashes for two of his features, “Bob and Swab” and “The Barker.”
Both were reprinted in black-&-white in Ron J. Frantz’s Ace Comics Presents…
#3 (Oct. 1987). Ron prepared the issue as a special tribute to Nordling only
a few months after the artist/writer’s fatal heart attack: “He had been
shoveling snow in the throes of a harsh New England winter, and we all
felt the cold.” Great book, R.F.! Contact him at magilla445@aol.com to
learn how to get a copy. [©2006 ACE Comics, Inc.]

I did—I did quite a few titles. Incidentally, come to think of it, I should
mention this: today, they may be done differently, but in those days,
you’d have a writer, and an artist. Then you’d have a lettering man, and
then you’d have a girl in a bullpen booth who did coloring. They were
mostly done that way.

I didn’t do mine that way. I wrote and drew my own stuff. I hand-
lettered it, drew the boxes, and drew the whole shebang. Very seldom
was anyone else involved. And I also did a thing called “Lady Luck,”
which appeared every Sunday in a [newspaper] section called The Spirit
Section. The Spirit was done by Will Eisner. I did the second feature,
“Lady Luck,” and the third feature, which was done for a while, was by
Bob Powell—called “Mr. Mystic.” Bob Powell was there about 5 or 6
years [of the period] that I’m talking about now. But Will Eisner and I
stuck with this for over about ten years, I think it was, actually.

And if any of these titles are familiar to you, I could go down the
list. I did an awful lot of them. “The Barker” was a circus story, and
later appeared as its own book. “Pen Miller” was a cartoon detective
which was very popular—relatively popular with kids. Incidentally, I
found that my stuff was very popular with the other artists, and they’d
come up to me and tell me that they liked to read my stuff—so this
probably had a bad effect on me, because I started putting a lot of
inside humor into the things, which wasn’t good for the reading public.
72 Klaus Nordling

the [unintelligible] scene. So I had
a lot of fun, but maybe that’s why
it appeals to so many adults—my
stuff, particularly. Now, maybe it
wasn’t good for sales, because kids
were the prime buyers. But
anyway, I had fun and I made a
little money at it.
IVIE: Can you tell us how old you
were at the time?
NORDLING: Oh, I must have
been about five years old.
[audience laughs] When I started,
let me think, I must have been
about 24 or 23, something like that.
I don’t quite remember the exact
time. I sort-of leaped into it. Oh,
one thing that Jerry DeFuccio
[then associate editor of Mad
magazine] has told me, and several
[other] people [have, is] that my
stories reminded them of plays or
movie scripts. I hadn’t thought of
that until it was mentioned to me,
and then I realized why it was so.
It’s because concurrently with all
that time drawing, I read plays.
And so I guess [that affected] my
writing approach to these things.
And, as a matter of fact, I did
write a few scripts occasionally for
other people. They’d be written
like movie scenarios in a sense, but
I might put in a twitch of an
eyebrow or something. In each
panel, I tried to have everything
that could go into the picture. But
this sometimes threw the artists
completely, if they just weren’t
very good artists, or [if] they just
drew them. Is there anything else
you can think to ask me? Now you
can ask me how old I am.
TED WHITE: How closely did
you work with Will Eisner?
Well, I’d go home and I’d figure
out some characters and also the
first story, and he [Will Eisner]
would say, “Well, this is good, this
is fine, but let’s change this and
change that.”
With others, he and whoever
else he’d talked the story over with
would develop the whole theme,
and Will Eisner would even draw
the characters to begin with, and
then they would plan it with the
artist together with the script.
They talked with another writer,
and now the writer’d be in on the
deal, and they’d handed the artist
the job so all he had to do was
interpret the script, and he didn’t
have much of the original creation.
He wasn’t a midwife in any sense.
Is that clear enough for you, or do
you need any more clarity on that?
WHITE: Well, let me ask you
another question. The Spirit
Sunday Section was a unique thing
in the history of either newspaper
or comic magazine publishing. Do
you have any idea how that got
started, and what role both you
and Eisner played?
NORDLING: I don’t know
anything of how it got started.
After The Thin Man Will was always looking for a buck
So far as Jerry Bails’ records show, Nordling’s lone job for Timely/Marvel wherever he could see one, and he
was the origin of “Thin Man” in Mystic Comics #4 (Aug. 1940), a hero who’s just thought this was a great idea.
appeared rather more often since Ye Editor retconned him as a member of He wanted to make money with it,
the WWII “Liberty Legion” in the mid-1970s. Surprisingly, this one-shot hero and he just thought it out of his
was in several key ways a harbinger of Jack Cole’s 1941 “Plastic Man,” own head, as far as I know. And he
though the powers he gained in the “Mystic” East enabled him only to invented The Spirit and he needed
grow super-thin, not stretch or totally reshape himself. Both Nordling and
two more features for it, and he
Cole, of course, would later do the bulk of their comics work for Quality
Comics Group, and both would be involved with Will Eisner’s Spirit section. asked me if I’d handle one of
Chances are Nordling both wrote and drew this story, springboarding from them—that’s about the size of it.
the name of the detective novel by Dashiell Hammett and the popular series All I knew was that it was his idea.
of 1930s movies starring William Powell and Myrna Loy . With thanks to
Matt Moring, who restored the art. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.] BINDER: He’d been in this
business before.

NORDLING: Oh, I worked very close with him. Will Eisner had a
tremendous capacity for ideas and a terrific comedy sense. A real satire
sense. With a lot of this stuff, when he was with Quality Comics at the
same time I was, often what would happen is this: Will was really what
you might call the editor or the prime-mover guy, the guiding genius.
He’d say, “Why don’t you do a new feature for the book?”
NORDLING: Will had been in this business. I had originally done the
syndicate thing way back… the Baron Munchausen strip, but that had
nothing to do with it. That was before I got into comic books.
WHITE: Do we have questions from the audience? Don? Go ahead,
ask your question.

You realize he did not do this with everybody. He did it with me
because we had a certain rapport. He called me into the office—he
called me at home, but into the office—and say we need a new feature
and he’d say, “I have an idea. I want this kind and this kind of area, a
milieu. Now you dream up a set of characters, and it operates in this
particular theater.” Let’s say it’s like this, say, “Pen Miller,” a cartoon
detective that I did. He’d say, “I want a cartoon in the paper, do it up.”
Once I did a little character who was Japanese, so he’d be foreign. I had
to change him from Japan when the war started. I had to change it from
Japanese to something else. It was Filipino or Chinese or whatever he
was. Suddenly, I had to change his name in mid-stream [unintelligible].
DON THOMPSON: Klaus, today, you are not in comic books. When
did you leave… and why? [audience laughs]
NORDLING: Why? TV. In those days, TV had a real strong effect…
and I left the comic books around1951, I think. And it wasn’t so much
my leaving as the comic books leaving me. I did all of my work at that
time for Quality comic books, and they were losing money fast all of a
sudden, starting in the year of ’50 to ’51, maybe even ’49. Sales went
down—they went down all over—and they began suffering. And
Everett Arnold, or “Busy” Arnold as we called the publisher, kept
dropping books, one after another, one after another.
 The Fabulous ’40s 73

Luck, Be A Lady Tonight

“Lady Luck,” whose back-up adventures during Nordling’s reign were allotted just 4 pages to The Spirit’s 7 or 8, wasn’t an action feature—but Nordling
could handle action, as well as cheesecake, when the occasion arose. Prior to his tenure, she didn’t wear even a flimsy veil to protect her secret identity.
Repro’d in the 1980 Ken Pierce book Lady Luck, Vol. 2. Hey, anybody out there got a copy of Vol. 1 they’d like to sell? Please?? [©2006 Will Eisner Studios.]

I know mine went on for a while and then suddenly, boom! And at
one point, I think the only thing that he was left with—I think, maybe
in ’52—was Blackhawk, and he was sticking with that. And I don’t
know how long Blackhawk lasted. [NOTE: Till 1956, actually—
along with a handful of other Quality titles. —Roy.] It wasn’t very
long. But I did continue to make a lot of the Sunday features for a
while…. [Several sentences unintelligible at this point, alas, although
the audience apparently found what Nordling said hilarious.
Someone asked what he was doing now.]
I’m doing mostly—well, it’s not exactly commercial work. I do
some jobs in the comic book mold for commercial jobs. For instance,
Wonder Bread or [unintelligible] and earth-shaking things like that. I
also do little 16-page booklets, 5-by-7 size, and all this for many organ-
izations. I do stuff for the Army. A lot of it is promotional, some is
sort-of inspirational stuff, like about giving blood to the Red Cross.
This time, we finally get you to give some.
BINDER: We’d love to.
NORDLING: What was I saying? Oh yeah. A lot of Army stuff,
right—and then I did posters and—well, maybe twenty years from now
I’ll get a little organized. [audience laughs]
[After a few more questions from the audience, primarily
about the “Superman/Captain Marvel” lawsuit, the
panel ends.]

KLAUS NORDLING Checklist

[This Checklist is adapted from information supplied by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of American Comic Books (1928-1999),
formerly Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books. See the display announcement on p. 61. Names of features which appeared
both in comic books of that title and in other comics are not generally italicized below, e.g. Lady Luck. Reprint material is generally not
included below. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (d) = daily comic strip; (S) = Sunday comic strip.]

Name: Klaus F. Nordling (1915-1986) (artist, writer) Print Media (non-comics): artist - commercial art; communications
art for Will Eisner, late 1940s
Pen Names: Klaus, F.; Nord; Clyde Norris; Ed North; Fred North [at
Harvey]; Ken Norton Commercial Art & Design: designer – instructional materials,
American Dental Association, Esso Corporation, American Trucking
Birthplace: Finland Assn., Continental Baking, Brazil Labor Unions, American Medical
Performing Arts: actor: stage - many productions. Director & actor: Assn., Junior Achievement; Lionel Corporation; Maryland Game and
stage - little theatre. Fish; South Korean Army, Mental Health Assn., National Safety
Council, National Board of Realtors; Red Cross; Snelling and Snelling
74 Klaus Nordling

Employment Service; Society for Prevention of EC Comics: Mad (a) 1959

Blindness; Turkish Army; YMCA; US Army; US Fiction House: Captain Derek West (w/a) 1940-
Labor Dept. 41; Greasemonkey Griffin (w/a) 1941; Powder
Comics in Other Media: gag cartoons & carica- Burns (w/a) 1940; Strut Warren (w/a) 1940
tures (w/a) for Americana magazine 1930s and Fox Comics: Lt. Drake (w/a) 1939-41; Shorty
for Golden Books; “Joe Dope” (w/a) in PS Shortcake (w/a) 1939-40; Spark Stevens (w/a)
magazine 1939-42

Promotional Comics: advertising comics (a) for
the Borden Company
Syndicated Credits (Newspaper Comic
Strips): Baron Munchausen (S)(w/a) c. 1939;
Lady Luck (S)(w/a) 1946-46 for Register &
Tribune Syndicate; Spark Stevens of the Navy
(w/a) 1939-40; The Spirit (S)(bkgd) 1945-51 for
Register & Tribune Syndicate – (some w) 1946
COMIC BOOK CREDITS
(MAINSTREAM US PUBLISHERS):
Comics Studio (Shop): Eisner & Iger Studio (a) 1939; Iger Studio
(w/a) 1940-41
Better/Standard/Nedor/Pines: Make-Believe Mickey (w/a) 1940
Harvey Comics: Crash, Cork, and the Baron
(w/a) 1939-41
Hillman Periodicals: Airboy (w); Buckskin
Benson (w); The Heap (w) – all late 1940s
Holyoke Publications: Crack, Cork, and the
Baron (w/a) 1940
Marvel/Timely Comics: The Thin Man (w/a)
1940
Quality Comics: The Barker (w/a) 1947-48; The
Blue Tracer (w/a) 1941-43; Bob and Swab (w/a)
1944-47, 1948-50; Kid Dixon (w/a) 1941; Lady Luck (w/a) 1945-48
(reprinted from Spirit newspaper section); Odd Jobs, Inc.
(w/a) 1946; Pen Miller (w/a) 1940-49; Shot and Shell (w/a)
1941-43; Spudo (a) 1947; Wonder Boy (w/a) c. 1942

Exit Stage Right

[Above:] Klaus Nordling in a publicity photo taken, Ron Frantz reports in ACE Comics Presents… #3, “the day before his untimely death”.
Nordling was one of the good ones! [Photo ©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

Graphic Storytelling
Eisneresque storytelling from a Nordling “Lady Luck” tale. From the Ken Pierce Vol. 2. [©2006 Will Eisner Studios.]
 Available Again—At Last!

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76

Giant-Size Invaders #2 and Stoker’s Dracula, two favorite Marvel

projects. As is known by those who care, I was also invited to submit an
idea for a limited JSA series to be drawn by my old pal Jerry Ordway,
and naturally I jumped at the chance… but when it became clear to me
that the editors wanted me to do their kind of story rather than my
own, I basically withdrew. I still like writing comics, but I figure if I
have to do any more stories in order to secure my own modest niche in
the history of the field, it’s already too late for me. But again, thanks to
one and all for the kind words!
Now, on with the scribblings re A/E #50, starting with one from my
old friend and colleague Dr. Jerry G. Bails, who in 1961 was the
founding editor/publisher of the first edition of Alter Ego:

Dear Roy,
I just finished up reading Alter Ego #50. Great issue! Great
subject! It demonstrates what I’ve always believed. It is our empathy
that makes you a great writer. It shows up in your respect for your
collaborators, and makes you quite exceptional as an editor. You’ve
made a real significant contribution to the art form as writer, editor,
and historian.
I am so glad that you were also strong enough to avoid being
beaten down as so many talented folks were. I truly enjoy following
“my” alter ego in his career—the one I might have followed. I think
you deserve a new appellation: You’re THE MAN. I’m really proud
and pleased to have known you all these years.
Bestest, Jerry

(Sound of RT blushing.) The pleasure’s been all (well, mostly) mine,

Jerry. And comics fandom would’ve sailed along quite nicely if there’d
never been a Roy Thomas, but I’m far less sure where it might have
been if you hadn’t been around to jumpstart it!
Next, a most welcome missive from a most wonderful collaborator

T he cover of Showcase #4 has been reprinted more often than

perhaps any other DC cover from the Silver Age. Here, our Aussie
artist colleague Shane Foley has playfully put our “maskots”
of mine in the 1960s and ’70s—none other than Mirthful Marie
Severin, with whom I worked on “Dr. Strange,” Sub-Mariner, and
Not Brand Echh!
Alter and Captain Ego into the layout for that famous cover.
Shane also drew the John Broome caricature
on this issue’s cavortin’ cover. Thanks, twice
over, mate! [Art ©2006 Shane Foley; Alter &
Captain Ego TM & ©2006 Roy Thomas &
Bill Schelly; A & CE created by Biljo
White.]
Alter Ego #50 was perhaps, to use the
phrase Pete Von Sholly devised for the mag in
his recent TwoMorrows parody mag Comic
Book Nerd, an “Ultra Ego” issue, since along
with half a hundred issues of A/E, it celebrated
my (Roy Thomas’) 40th anniversary in the
comic book field. And while, due both to the
changing vagaries of (perceived) public taste and
a touch of rampant ageism, I’m no longer super-
active in the field, I wish to thank up front all
those well-wishers who expressed unhappiness
that I’m not writing more current comic product.
Still, I’m keeping busy, and not just with A/E,
a few comics-related book projects for
TwoMorrows and others, and the occasional text
[Hulk TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
intro for Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, and Dynamic.
Besides the current Anthem series for Heroic
Publishing (which bids fair to continue), I’m
currently finishing up a special issue of Red Sonja for Dynamic; also, Wonderful drawing, Marie—it’s going up on my wall right next to
Marvel and I are discussing a possible limited series I can’t divulge at your cover for the color Crazy issue that showed the Fantastical Four
present—and of course it was a delight in the past year or so to work on battling Stuporman! I’m only sorry Dark Horse’s Escapist comic bit the
 re:
dust before we got our shot at doing more than a few panels of our
parody of Michael Chabon’s hero… but at least that most recent collab-
oration of ours made it into print! I’ve nothing but fond memories of
our work together. (And, before somebody asks—yes, we definitely do
plan a Marie Severin interview for a near-future issue! Meanwhile,
check out the conversation she, Ramona Fradon, and Trina Robbins had
in an issue of TwoMorrows’ Comic Book Artist a few years back.)
A fellow Missourian I’m proud to have helped enter the comics
industry back in the mid-1960s (along with Gary Friedrich and, a few
years later, Steve Gerber) is Dennis O’Neil, who’s also a fellow
member of the ACTOR board:
Roy—
Just checked out A/E. A deep bow to you, my brother. Great job.
Your memory is amazing and the in-depth interview with you is
gracious and fair. Bravo.
Denny
Thanks, Denny. Again, you’re someone we want to interview for
A/E about his first decade of work. Meanwhile, you’re being aptly
covered, we’re glad to say, in other publications, such as Back Issue.
The inker of the first two stories I ever sold—what turned out to be
the final issues of two Charlton series, Son of Vulcan and Blue
Beetle—was Tony Tallarico, so it was great to get this note from him,
which we reproduce here in its entirety:
Roy Thomas wrote, Bill Fraccio penciled, and Tony Tallarico
inked the story in Charlton’s Son of Vulcan #50 (Jan. 1966), RT’s
first script sale, made by mail from St. Louis. [Son of Vulcan TM
& ©2006 DC Comics.]
Glad to hear from you, Tony. And my condolences on the
recent passing of your good friend (and collaborator) Bill Fraccio.
Here’s a piece of welcome info from Fred Hembeck, who has
spent years straddling the parallel worlds of fandom and prodom:
77
Hi Roy,
The 50th issue of Alter Ego is just a delight to read. I’m only a
few pages into the interview, when I saw something that struck me.
Knowing you to be an admirable stickler for even the smallest of
details, I figured the reason you didn’t identify the origin of the
montage of Spider-Man characters by John Romita on page 30 was
simply because you just didn’t know!
Well, I recognized it—the pencils for a full inked centerspread
John did for Fantaco’s Chronicle Series #5, focusing on Spider-Man.
This zine also featured freshly commissioned work by John Byrne, Joe
Staton (front and back covers, respectively), Steve Leialoha, A/E’s very
own Michael T. Gilbert, and (you guessed it) me! Not that my memory
of this 1982 publication is that good—turns out I had just pulled it out
the other day to look up something for my website and saw the Romita
illo while paging through it. Rare is the chance for me to add anything,
however minor (and yes, this is minor!) to your lovingly produced
mag, but seeing my opportunity, well, I’m grabbing it! Keep up the
great work!
Fred Hembeck
We’re on it, Fred—and thanks for the printed version of that Romita
drawing, which we’ve printed on the next page. Also, on p. 22, readers
can peruse your own rhapsodic rendition of the cover of Showcase #4
and your comments thereon.
Reader Earl Greier had this to offer:
Roy,
I just read and enjoyed Alter Ego #50 (Happy Anniversary to
A/E and RT). In it, you give an example of the non-communication
between Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. You said you’d like to see a better
one. I think I can do that.
In Amazing Spider-Man #30, a story about a lone burglar
called The Cat, there is a scene where The Cat’s “gang” is seen
pulling a job. As a kid I was confused why The Cat’s gang was
dressed the same way The Master Planner’s (Doc Ock’s) gang would
dress in #31-33. Of course, the robbery, which is even shown to be
of radioactive materials such as Dr. Octopus would pursue in the
next issue, was actually supposed to be a prelude to the coming
story. And either Mr. Ditko did not make it clear, or Mr. Lee
misread, or read and forgot, the note explaining it.
The problem is as mentioned in Alter Ego: writer Lee was too
close to editor Lee. On one hand, one regrets that rifts drove Kirby
and Ditko away. On the other hand, we should be happy the
partnerships lasted as long as they did.
Earl Geier
Heroic Publishing head honcho Dennis Mallonee also
mentioned the “Cat” thing, Earl.
Methinks either
example of Lee-Ditko
non-communication
would suffice.
Recently, longtime
comics and sf fan
Richard Kyle seems
to be becoming a
virtual fixture on this
letters pages, prejudiced
as we are in favor of
missives such as his,
which always offer
plentiful food for
thought:
78 [comments, correspondence, & corrections]

no Woolfolk? And what about Jack Kirby? Frank

Miller is mentioned as a writer, but Kirby is not. Yet
John Byrne wore himself out switching Jack Kirby
stories. Shouldn’t Jack have got honorable mention
as a Byrne assistant—a “with” credit, at least?
Nothing for Jack Cole, either, writer of the early
“Plastic Man,” among others.
The poll had one value, though. It nailed
exactly what has always been wrong with comics
fandom. It has lived entirely in the moment. The
deep historical sense that early science-fiction
fandom possessed was never alive in comics. Science-
fiction fans went on to become writers, artists,
publishers, critics of real stature. Comics fandom had
the writers and artists, all right. But they never had a
decent critic, or a good editor, or an intelligent
publisher, except for Bill Spicer and you and John
Morrow (and—and god I have reservations—Gary
Groth).

Returning to Jack: I’ve wondered for years

about that “SHIELD” story supposedly written by
him [in Strange Tales #148, Sept. 1966]. There was
Jazzy Johnny Romita’s cover for Fantaco’s Chronicle Series #5; with thanks to Fred Hembeck. Jack’s credit, there was Stan’s editorial comment that
[©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Jack was writing the story—and there was the story
which sounded as though it was written by Stan.
Dear Roy, Turns out, it was. Well, maybe the readers wouldn’t have liked Jack’s
A terrific issue. Maybe you should move these 40th-anniversary dialogue. But… did you read it? What was it like? What was wrong
issues up to an annual event. The Thomas interviews, editorials, with it?
articles, commentary, and asides were all immensely enjoyable. Fine “The Inhumans” [in Amazing Adventures #1-4, 1970-71] doesn’t
Ordway cover! tell us much about Jack’s writing at that time. He was clearly getting
[NOTE: Wish we had room to print the mid-section of ready to leave Marvel, and his art for that strip is the most knocked-out
Richard’s letter, which has quite a bit to say about how Marvel that I can remember. “SHIELD,” however, seems as though it could
might have retained its more mature audience.] have been another matter.
Jack was a good writer when he was impelled to do his best. The
[Mort] Weisinger was a caution. You wonder what kind of a guy trouble is, few seem ever to have demanded his best. Or understood
Julius Schwartz was. And E. Nelson Bridwell? I’d like to know more what he was saying. Stan, on the “Him” story, threw out Jack’s whole
about Bridwell. All I seem to remember reading about him was that he story because of a difference in philosophy, then wrote another in its
had few social skills, and a mind like a steel trap for DC history and place, one that contradicts the drawings and tosses away what could
trivia. I’ve read a few stories by him, have been one of Marvel’s greatest
too, I believe. All were professionally characters. Jack once talked about
executed, with a good grasp of the “Him” to me. It was a great idea. It
characters. His story-judgments seemed could have been one of Marvel’s
sound. Is there more to know? keystone series.
You’re awfully polite about the Richard Kyle
CBG [Comics Buyer’s Guide] poll.
“Favorite Editors of the Century”: As Fast responses, in order:
you say, where are Whit Ellsworth, (1) I didn’t know him that well
Charles Biro, Al Feldstein, Bill Parker, myself, but we’d welcome a study on
the Dell editors? E. Nelson Bridwell, who I feel was, in
But what about Simon & Kirby? the long run, treated unkindly by an
Their editorial impact was incalculable, ungrateful comics industry. But see at
infinitely greater than many of those least the comments of his first cousin,
who scored well in that poll. And what on the very next page.
about Funnies, Inc.? Who was the editor (2) The CBG poll simply was what
there? Was it Bill Everett, who’s it was, and I share your misgivings
sometimes described as “managing about it… but since it both amused
editor,” or who? No one cares, appar- and, I’ll admit, flattered me, I appre-
ently, although two of the greatest ciated Krause Publications’ permission
characters in comics came from there— to run some of its results in A/E #50.
along with other memorable strips like Still, you’re dead right about the over-
“Dick Cole.” emphasis on recent and thus more
And “Favorite Writers”… as you Re A/E #50, Robert Klein sent this missive—whose ultimate source
familiar work and creators.
write, no Bill Finger, no Biro, no Binder, one or two of you may recall. [©2006 DC Comics.]

(3) While not as wild as you about much of
Jack Kirby’s Silver and post-Silver Age
writing—I always admired the art, but
winced at much of the writing, on New
Gods and most of Jack’s later product—I
concur wholeheartedly that he was an
important writer in the field, including back
in the ’40s and ’50s, even though it’s often
hard to know what he wrote, as opposed to
Joe Simon or others, for the Simon & Kirby
team. But seems to us like that topic is
adequately handled in a magazine we’ve
heard of called The Jack Kirby Collector….
(4) As for Jack’s “SHIELD” script in
Strange Tales #148, I’m afraid I have no
precise memory of it, except that Stan felt a
need to rewrite much of it. Sorry.
Now, this note from Andy Patternson:
Roy, Roy, Roy,
I must say you really outdid yourself on
Alter Ego #50. I can’t tell you how much I
dug all the little anecdotes about how things
This 1970s cartoon depicting artist Dave Hunt (left)
where, when they came about, who said and Marvel artist/production manager John
what, who created what, and who eventually
Verpoorten was drawn by then-production person &
got credit for it. All that stuff is gold. colorist Linda Lessman, who for some years now has
Fascinating. One throwaway sentence in a been married to artist Bill Reinhold. [Art ©2006 Linda
story can really bring a situation to life. This Lessman
was my childhood, man. And now I see some
of what went into making it. How lucky you are to have been part of
that great period of history. How lucky I was to be witness to the
outcome.
I would beg to differ on one point, though. It was stated on p. 47
that [the work of] Ross Andru (my favorite Spider-Man artist) “never
quite looked as good inked as it did in pencil.” I admit I haven’t seen
much of his bare pencil work, but I would argue that he never looked
as good as when he was inked by Frank Giacoia and D. Hunt. (Who
was D. Hunt, anyway? And why did it take two people to ink Andru?)
And I would argue further that, even through all the all-star contrib-
utors that Back Issue reports happened on the Superman/Spider-Man
crossover (Neal Adams, Dick Giordano, etc.), it was still never better
than with Giaocia and Hunt
Andy Patterson
Dave Hunt did a lot of fine inking for both Marvel and DC,
Andy—and even contributed an article to FCA some time back about
his inking some of Kurt Schaffenberger’s Shazam! work. And the reason
it took two people to ink some Ross Andru stories is that the main inker
of record, Frank Giacoia, was a super-talented procrastinator of the first
order, and often needed help to finish (or even begin) an assignment
(see, for instance, his friend Joe Giella’s comments in A/E #52). For a
caricature of Dave, who plans another article for A/E soon, see the art
spot above.
This from Jim Cleary:
Hi Roy,
Just finished reading Alter Ego #50, which I picked up on
Saturday along with 12 new comics, a variant (House of M #4), and 8
back issues. I didn’t get a chance yet to read any of my comics, I was
too into A/E #50, which, I think, is the best comics-related mag I have
ever read! I just loved how you discussed all the early Marvel people
from your point of view.
I have wanted to write you (and Marvel) many times over the
years, but never have. You have always been my favorite creator/writer;
re: 79
I love all your Marvel work: Avengers, Thor,
Conan, Invaders, etc. You gave us The
Vision (one of my all-time favorites), Black
Knight, Grim Reaper, just so many great
characters and stories, including my favorite
comic story, the Kree/Skrull War. I’m a big
fan of Marvel, thanks to you and my grand-
mother. She used to work for Curtis [for
some years Marvel’s distribution company]
in Philly, and every weekend when we would
visit my grandparents she would give me a
big brown paper bag filled with everything
Marvel published that week—and I do mean
everything. This occurred from the early
1970s to the early ’80s, when she retired. I
tell everyone Marvel taught me how to read.
I would see these fantastic heroes and just
had to find out what they were talking about.
Jim Cleary
Thanks for the kind words, Jim.
Marie O’Brien is the first cousin of
E. Nelson Bridwell, who in 1964 entered pro
comics as editor Mort Weisinger’s assistant on
the “Superman” titles and who worked, with
increased tenuousness, in the field until his
death slightly more than two decades later.
Reinhold.] She sent this e-mail to “Comic Crypt” editor
Michael T. Gilbert, who forwarded it to me,
concerning an incident late in ENB’s life, when he was accosted by a
would-be robber on a New York street and fought the guy off:
Dear Michael,
I remember Mother telling me Nelson was attacked when he was
living in NYC by a criminal when he was walking home. Luckily,
Nelson walked with a cane and used the cane to defend himself.
Mother talked to Nelson when he called, and we were all horrified, of
course. Nelson, as I am sure you know, was a very gentle soul. So for
Nelson to strike anyone, the attacker must have been very threatening
and aggressive. I am not sure if the criminal was captured of if he got
away. I do know it was truly scary for Nelson. The attacker could have
severely hurt or even killed him. However, Nelson “fended him off”
and we were all very thankful and proud of Nelson.
Marie O’Brien
Great story, Marie—wish we had more details. And, as we said
above, we hope to do more about Nelson one of these days.
Well, that’s it for another go-round. Send your comments and criti-
cisms to:
Roy Thomas e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com
32 Bluebird Trail Fax: (803) 826-6501
St. Matthews, SC 29135
Don’t forget—this month also sees the debut of the trade paperback
Alter Ego Collection, Vol. 1, reprinting A/E V3#1-2, with the 1995
Stan Lee Roast, Thomas and Ordway on the origins of Infinity, Inc.,
interviews with Jack Burnley, Irwin Hasen, and Larry Lieber, and
many other goodies, plus more than two dozen pages of added
material—including a number of unpublished 1940s art pages of
“Flash,” “Green Lantern,” etc., by the likes of Irwin Hasen, Carmine
Infantino, Paul Reinman, et al.! And you’ll dig the great “JLA Jam”
cover by Joe Kubert, George Pérez, Dick Giordano, Nick
Cardy, Ramona Fradon, Joe Giella, and George Tuska!
[Jackson Bostwick as Captain Marvel — Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]
 Previously Unpublished Art by Frank Brunner

Art ©2005 Frank Brunner; Characters TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.
ATTENTION:
FRANK BRUNNER
ART FANS!
Frank is now accepting art commissions for
covers, splash panels, or pin-up re-creations!
Also, your ideas for NEW art are welcome!
Art can be pencils only, inked
or full-color (painted) creation!
Contact Frank directly for details and prices.
(Minimum order: $150)

Visit my NEW website at:

http://www.frankbrunner.net

COMICS’
GOLDEN AGE
LIVES AGAIN!
SPY S M A S H E R
BLACK TERROR • AVENGER
PHANTOM LADY • CAT-MAN
D AR E D E V IL • C R IM E B US T E R
CAPTAIN FLASH
M R . S C A R L E T • M I N U T E MA N
SK Y M A N • ST U NT M A N
Art ©2005 AC Comics;
THE OWL • BULLETMAN
heroes TM & ©2005 DC Comics.
FIGHTING YANK
P Y R O M A N • G R E E N LA M A
TH E E A G L E IB I S
Th e abo ve is ju s t a p a r t i a l l i s t o f c h a r a c t e r s t h a t h a ve
appeared in A C Com ics’ r epri nt tit les suc h as M EN O F
M Y S T E R Y, G O L D E N A G E G R E AT S, a n d A M E R I C A’S
G R E AT EST C O M I C S . V ir tually all issues published to date
are available at $6.95 each. To find o ver 1 00 quality
G olden Age r epr ints, g o t o t h e AC C o m i c s website at
<accomics.com>.

AC COMICS Box 521216 Longwood FL 32752

Please add $1.50 postage & handling per order.

By
[Art
(c) mds& logo ©2006 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2006 DC Comics]
FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a
top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel
character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illus-
trated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story,
“Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel
Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett
Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz
Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many
Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military.
After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with
Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out
of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The
Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’
Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and
mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze
produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics,
including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased
publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications,
where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing
professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since
his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue Marc
explored a fictional scenario of being the one to have been offered
the Mary Marvel feature as a full-time assignment at Fawcett. This
time he talks about “doing it all” for a company that was producing
comic book artwork by collaborative means. —P.C. Hamerlinck.
It has been a long time, but I can hear my brother now. He had a
way of putting things in terms a fellow could understand … like
baseball:
“Here comes a grounder right at your feet. Your teammate over
there needs the ball in a hurry to put the runner out. Don’t just scoop
it up and give it a wild fling in his general direction. Make the catch
easy for him! Throw him a perfect strike!”
A perfect strike … meaning, right at his belly button. Now that was
a reminder you could carry with you … forever. In drawing board
language your teammate was your writer, who had a story to tell. Your
work was needed to help that story move along … make it better. Not
necessarily for the editors, or the publishers … or for other artists to
maybe admire … but for the reader!
So went my thoughts in 1940. And so they go today.
And so they went on a day in 1941 when I was called from my
board in the art department at Fawcett Publications. I was curious. My
job was drawing Captain Marvel and I had not heard one word of
criticism, pro or con, in the week or so of employment with the
company.
83
The Superhero’s name alone, spoken with such
obvious respect around the place, heightened my spirits
as I made my way along the hallway to the conference
room, fully confident of forthcoming praise.
It didn’t work out that way. My employers, editor
Ed Herron and art director Al Allard, were bent over a
page of comic book art. My work. I had changed the
layout art and they wanted to know why.
The roughly sketched layout pages had been
delivered to me to “finish up.” That meant do the
pencil work in greater detail, then ink. In other words,
ready them for production.
I didn’t see myself as somebody special there, but
recalling the courteous consideration shown by those two at my expla-
nation, I wonder. I was opposing something they definitely had in
mind … a system by which comic book art could be prepared
combining the work of several artists to appear as one.
The layout page was the first step in converting the typed script to
pictures. It served as a guide … like a blueprint … a plan of action …
for the succeeding phases in creating comic book art. The well-
prepared layout, I told them, went beyond the typed panel descriptions
and dealt with the characters and their performance and dialogue. A
carelessly conceived layout, I said, would be less likely to curb the
whimsical tendencies to get arty … so apt to result in needless
repetition, crowded panels, inappropriate “camera” angles, and
extreme, purposeless perspective.
The layout page carried with it certain responsibilities, I said, and
when it failed to accomplish what was expected of it, I changed it.
“Would you prefer to do layouts … and leave the finishing-up for
others?” I was asked.
I wasn’t ready for that. Since the pre-teen days my impression was
that the comic strip was the work of a solitary individual … the creator
… perhaps with an assistant, but primarily a one-man-doing-it-all
operation.
My being on the Fawcett payroll was due to a mistake … a misun-
Running On Different Ideas
Swayze art (and story) from Captain Marvel Adventures #5 (Sept. 1942).
[©2006 DC Comics.]
84 Marc Swayze

derstanding … my own failure to fully comprehend the

correspondence from France E. Herron of the comics
department. His letters had included the words: “as an
inker.” Doubtless, to Herron the phrase had a specific
meaning. But not to me. When I reported to the
company it was with the misconception that I would be
“doing it all,” the way I had learned the business, the
way I liked to work. I told them that.

I am thankful for that day … for that occasion. It

was a turning point. Most of my years in comics were
spent with Fawcett Publications, and never again was I
expected to work any way but from “script to camera-
ready.”

Marc will return with more anecdotes of his days in

comics next issue… and we couldn’t be happier
about it!

The 1941 letter from Fawcett comics editor France (Ed) Herron Advertise In
to Marc Swayze that offered him employment.
Alter Ego!
FULL-PAGE: 7.5" Wide x 10" Tall • $300
HALF-PAGE: 7.5" Wide x 4.875" Tall • $175
QUARTER-PAGE: 3.75" Wide x 4.875" Tall • $100

The TwoMorrows Two-Fer!

Prepay for two ads in Alter Ego, DRAW!, Write
Now!, Back Issue, or any combination and these
discounts apply:
TWO FULL-PAGE ADS: $500 ($100 savings)
TWO HALF-PAGE ADS: $300 ($50 savings)
TWO QUARTER-PAGE ADS: $175 ($25 savings)
The above rates are for black-&-white ads,
supplied on-disk (TIF, EPS, or Quark Xpress
files acceptable) or as camera-ready art.
Typesetting service available at 20% mark-up.
Due to our already low ad rates, no agency
discounts apply. Sorry, display ads are not
available for the Jack Kirby Collector.

Send ad copy and check/money order (US

funds) payable to:
We also accept VISA and
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Include card number and
1812 Park Drive expiration date.
Raleigh, NC 27605
Phone: (919)833-8092
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E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com
 85

Ross Roughs
A lex Ross needs no introduction to fans of current comics—the
more so if they’ve seen his beautiful Shazam! Power of Hope
book a year or two back. Thus, without further ado, except
to note that all art is ©2006 DC Comics—and to thank him for our
FCA cover a few pages back—here’s a dip into the Alex Ross Sketch
Drawer and Big Red Roughs:

CRISIS ON MULTIPLE EARTHS V.4 (a trade paperback

collection reprinting Justice League of America #122-124,
#135-137 and #147-148) - Ross: “The design for this cover is
clearly influenced by the classic Bill Everett [& Carl Burgos]
Human Torch/Sub-Mariner fight splash image, with one
figure being upside down in symmetry to the other. I was
hoping to try and wrestle the demon of doing my ultimate
image of the Captain Marvel/Superman fight to honor the
first moment in history they met. I imagine I’ll still be
trying this again in the future.”
86 Alex Ross

DC ENCYCLOPEDIA - Ross: “Originally this

was a much more shadowed piece, hiding
the characters with greater drama.”

PRIME – Ross: “Hopefully this won’t be the only

time I approach re-creating this classic Captain
Marvel/Billy Batson pose (from the cover of
Whiz Comics #22). At the time of the early ’90s,
Prime was Captain Marvel’s true inheritor.”

WORLD’S GREATEST SUPER-HEROES (a hardcover book collecting all the Paul Dini-Alex
Ross DC super-hero tabloid books) - Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are
depicted in their classic cover poses from Superman #1, Detective Comics #27, and
Wonder Woman #1; the other characters were designed to fit in around the big three.
Per the editor’s suggestion, Captain Marvel’s pose was altered for the final cover.
 Ross Roughs 87

“UPPER DECK” DC HEROES – Ross: “Captain Marvel’s pose here is actually self-referential to a cover I did for Marvel’s Captain with a new costume
I designed for the series.”

JSA #73 - Ross: “This began as a more solemn pose of

strength [left]; it changed (per the editor’s suggestion)
into a smirking, ready-to-fight Captain Marvel [right].”

Special thanks to Alex Ross and his wife T.J.

ULTIMATE BRAZILIAN BONUS: The final two pages from the 1964 Almanaque do O Globo Juvenil. The comics of Brazil produced new stories of Captain Marvel and his family for years after Fawcett discon-
88
tinued its comics line in 1953. On this page, the villainous Cobra is about to meet the fate that’s been in the cards for him for 17 pages. This 1964 art is by Rodriguez Zelis, with modern-day art recon-
struction and lettering for this issue by John Gentil. With special thanks to Rodrigo M. Zeidan and Matt Gore. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] “Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch” (Continued)
 It’s not the original Captain Marvel who flies in, but the original Human Torch—who in 1964 hadn’t appeared in a US comic for ten years and indeed had been supplanted by Johnny Storm in Fantastic Four three
years earlier. Apparently this Brazilian firm had once reprinted tales of the first Torch, and figured it retained the right to make up new ones! What’s more, The Cobra was modeled after The Python, whom Torch
and Sub-Mariner had battled in 1942’s Human Torch #8! Thanks to John G. Pierce for finding this classic, which has been translated from the Spanish by Mark Luebker. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics;
Human Torch TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
“Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch”

Y’know, we don’t think the Brazilians ever really did find Toro...!
89