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Electronically Filed - EASTERN DISTRICT CT OF APPEALS - July 23, 2014 - 07:34 PM
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1 IN THE MISSOURI COURT OF APPEALS

EASTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI
2
3 RUSSELL S. FARIA, )
4 Appellant, )
5 vs. ) ED No. 100964
6 STATE OF MISSOURI, )
7 Respondent. )
9 IN THE LINCOLN COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI

FORTY-FIFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
10 JUDGE DAN DILDINE
11 STATE OF MISSOURI, )
12 Plaintiff, )
13 vs. ) Cause No. 12L6-CR001312
14 RUSSELL S. FARIA, )
15 Defendant. )
16
17 TRANSCRIPT ON APPEAL
2-20-13, 3-4-13, 5-21-13, 6-18-13,
18 7-2-13, 7-10-13, 10-28-13
11-18-13, 11-19-13, 11-20-13, 11-21-13
19 VOLUME 4
20
21 APPEARANCES
22 Ms. Leah Askey Attorneys for the Plaintiff

Mr. Richard Hicks
23
Mr. Joel Schwartz Attorneys for the Defendant
24 Mr. Nathan Swanson
25
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1 DONALD SMALLWOOD,
2 a witness, having been duly sworn by the Circuit Clerk to
3 tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so
4 help you God, under the pain and penalty of the Perjury Laws
5 of Missouri, testifies as follows:
6 MS. ASKEY: Thank you, sir. If you would
7 please have a seat at the witness stand.
8 May it please the Court?
9 THE COURT: You may inquire when you are ready.
10 DIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MS. ASKEY:
12 Q. Please state your name for the record.
13 A. Donald Smallwood.
14 Q. And Mr. Smallwood, where are you employed?
15 A. I am employed at the St. Charles County
16 Sheriff's Department in St. Charles, Missouri.
17 Q. And what are your duties there?
18 A. I am a crime scene investigator. As a crime
19 scene investigator, our jobs are to respond to crime scenes
20 and document and collect evidence, also process any items
21 that are submitted to our office for latent print evidence
22 and sometimes some biological evidence.
23 And another duty of mine is latent print
24 examination in our office that any latent prints submitted by
25 either our officers, investigators or other agencies will get

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1 examined for comparison and possible AFIS, if needed.
2 Q. At some point -- strike that.
3 What's the protocol with examining latent
4 prints?
5 A. Latent, let me -- shall I go through some
6 definitions here?
7 Q. Well, they've heard a lot about it. Well,
8 briefly if you want to.
9 A. Latent prints, they will be collected on crime
10 scenes or in a laboratory. Those latents, once they're
11 collected, they will be documented on a lift back card or the
12 item itself is chemically processed. They'll be submitted
13 for analysis to us.
14 We use a methodology called ACE-V, which will
15 be analyzed, determined if it is the latent print that was
16 submitted, if it has sufficient quality and quantity of
17 detail to be individualized.
18 If it does, we would call it, at that point, of
19 value. If it is of value for identification, we will then
20 move on to any comparisons, to any knowns that have been
21 submitted.
22 If no knowns are submitted, we will then enter
23 those prints into the AFIS database to search for any in the
24 database that might give us a match on it and, ultimately,
25 you do the analysis, the comparison. Then you do an

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1 evaluation and determine if it is a match or excluded.
2 And at the end of it, there's a verification
3 step where the original examiner came to their conclusion,
4 finishes up with their case file, that file is then passed to
5 a time second examiner who then conducts another examination
6 again to get a -- basically it's a checks and balances to
7 make sure we're coming up with a proper answer.
8 Q. And were you working as a latent print examiner
9 in December of 2011?
10 A. Yes, I was.
11 Q. Did you receive some latent lift backs from CSI
12 Tiffany Fischer from 130 Sumac in Troy, Missouri?
13 A. I did not receive them from Fischer.
14 Q. Who did you receive them from?
15 A. I received them from Investigator Hall.
16 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked
17 as State's Exhibit 22. Do you recognize these?
18 A. Yes. These, yes I do.
19 Q. Okay. And are you privy to -- strike that.
20 When you receive a latent lift back, whether
21 you are the primary or the secondary reviewer, do you, are
22 you privy to information as to where that lift back was
23 obtained?
24 A. The information I am privy to is what is
25 written itself on the lift back. So if there is a written

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1 description, that's the information I get.
2 Q. Was there any written description on those lift
3 backs?
4 A. I believe there was. I honestly don't
5 remember. I guess, yes. Yes, there were. Yes, there was.
6 Q. Do you remember what it was?
7 A. No, I do not remember what it was. I could
8 look at it and refresh my memory.
9 Q. If you would, please.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q What information were you privy to?
12 A. The lifts are reported from the glass window of
13 the sliding door and they are marked "Lift C" and then a
14 second one is marked a "Relift of C".
15 The third one is marked "clear glass lift from
16 the" -- the lift is from a clear glass window of the door,
17 relift, "Lift D" and then the fourth one is marked "Relift of
18 D".
19 Q. Okay. So they are from the glass portions of
20 the door?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Okay. Now I'm going to show you what's been
23 marked as State's Exhibit 23. Do you recognize that?
24 A. Yes, I do.
25 Q. And what is that?

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1 A. These are the palm print exemplars submitted
2 for comparison in this case from Russell Faria.
3 Q. And did you have an opportunity to do an
4 independent analysis of those lift backs and the defendant's
5 palm prints?
6 A. I did do a verification identification and on
7 these lift backs to this palm print, yes.
8 Q. And what were your findings?
9 A. All of the four latents that were marked on,
10 there's one per lift back, each one of them was identified to
11 the left palm print of Russell Faria.
12 MS. ASKEY: Thank you. No further questions.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Schwartz?
14 MR. Schwartz: Yes.
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
17 Q. Officer Smallwood, are you a commissioned
18 officer?
19 A. I am not a commissioned officer. I'm a
20 civilian.
21 Q. So it's Mr. Smallwood?
22 A. Correct, sir.
23 Q. How long have you been doing this?
24 A. Since 1998. Fifteen years.
25 Q. So in 2011 is thirteen years if my math serves

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1 me correctly?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. We're agreed on that, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You just don't just do homicides?
6 A. Oh, no.
7 Q. You lift things from all kinds of crimes.
8 Burglaries, for example?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Someone burglarizes a home and there's prints,
11 you are going to want those prints, right? You are going to
12 examine those to compare them to a potential suspect?
13 A. Yes. That's -- yes.
14 Q. That's protocol, right? That's the normal
15 course of your day, right?
16 A. That's hard to say. Our days aren't normal.
17 Q. The normal course of your job description?
18 A. Yes. I mean, our job is to collect and
19 document evidence from crime scenes.
20 Q. Prior to examining those lifts to compare them
21 to a potential suspect in a burglary, you are going to want
22 prints of people who reside in that home, correct?
23 A. We ask, part of our protocols would be that we
24 would like, anytime there's submitted latent lift backs for
25 comparison, we would like to get exemplars from any knowns in

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1 the house, that's correct.
2 Q. Why would you do something like that? It seems
3 like a big waste of time. You have to examine more prints.
4 Why do you want any knowns within the house?
5 A. Any knowns in the house --
6 Q. Right.
7 A. -- we would want to compare anyone that's in
8 the house to any lifts from the house.
9 Q. Right. Well, the people whom live in the
10 house, you essentially want to eliminate those people as
11 suspects in a burglary case, right?
12 A. Well, all I'm concerned with is identifying the
13 latent prints from the house to an individual.
14 Q. Right.
15 A. Whether or not somebody lives there, doesn't
16 live there, we'll figure that out. That's for the
17 investigator to figure that out.
18 Q. Right. But you want to know the knowns in the
19 house?
20 A. We would like that submitted in any case.
21 Q. And the knowns in the house, meaning the people
22 who live there or have permission to be there, right?
23 A. Have permission to be there, yes.
24 Q. Because those prints that are in that house
25 could be on a bed, they can be on a glass door, they can be

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1 on a kitchen table, right?
2 A. Latent prints can be on multiple surfaces.
3 Q. They can last for days and days and days,
4 right?
5 A. They can last a long period of time, that is
6 correct.
7 Q. Essentially, you had four latents but they were
8 two palm prints of Russell Faria from his back door?
9 A. That's my understanding, correct.
10 Q. And he's a known in that house, right, as far
11 as you know?
12 A. I would assume.
13 Q. You don't know if he has permission to be in
14 that house?
15 A. No. I don't know that.
16 Q. All you can say is his palm prints was on his
17 sliding glass, was on a sliding glass door, right?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And again, in the normal course of your job,
20 you always want to know the knowns in the house because,
21 generally, their prints are going to turn up in that house,
22 right?
23 You don't want to confuse that with a suspect.
24 A. In any case, we want to get any exemplars of
25 people that are known to frequent a scene and if their prints

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1 are in there.
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Nothing further.
3 THE COURT: State?
4 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MS. ASKEY:
6 Q. What types of things would disturb prints?
7 I think Mr. Schwartz was asking you, they stay for days
8 and days and days. That's if they are not disturbed,
9 correct?
10 A. That would be correct.
11 Q. And so if someone, if I laid my hand down here
12 and then Mr. Hicks came and put his hand on top of mine,
13 would it be more on top of where I had my hand, would it be
14 less likely for my latent to be pulled from there if his were
15 after mine?
16 A. It would be less likely. Fingerprints are very
17 fragile by their nature and they can be easily disturbed by
18 simply -- if you have seen a fingerprint smudge or a smudge
19 on a pane of glass, it is there temporary until you can wipe
20 it off. It's that easy to disturb fingerprint evidence.
21 If there was, you know, one left on a surface
22 and something is placed on top of that, there is a very good
23 chance of destroying it or, at the least, distorting it.
24 Q. Would weather conditions distort prints, as
25 well?
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1 A. Yes, any weathering. Extreme heat. Extreme
2 cold. Wind. Rain. Any of that will affect the latent
3 quality of a print.
4 Q. Can you explain to the jury the difference
5 between a usable and nonusable latent print?
6 A. For us, a print that we would say of "value" is
7 the term we use, if there's enough sufficient clarity and
8 quantity of detail in it to make an identification.
9 Even though you may have touched something, an
10 object, I may or may not have left that print there but when
11 it's developed whether or not that print has enough clear
12 detail, enough of the ridges, the fingers that will allow me
13 to make an identification of it.
14 If it's just a smudge, yes, you can tell
15 somebody had touched it. You may even be able to tell a
16 right hand because of the placement of the fingers and the
17 palm.
18 However, if there is not sufficient clarity of
19 detail, I may not be able to make an identification, so one
20 of value is one that I can identify. Two, has sufficient
21 detail and one of no value or not identifiable, no matter if
22 I had the best exemplars in the world, I couldn't make a
23 positive identification between the two.
24 MS. ASKEY: Nothing further.

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1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 MR. SCHWARTZ:
3 Q. So what you are saying is if somebody disturbs
4 a print it could be destroyed, but if it's undisturbed it's
5 not destroyed, correct, and it could last?
6 A. Latent fingerprints can last, in a protected
7 state, a very long time.
8 Q. Let's say, for example, you touch a glass pane
9 and it's not disturbed and it leaves a palm print or
10 fingerprints. Twenty-four hours later, you could go and get
11 that print off that glass, assuming you left a print, right?
12 A. Right. That would be correct.
13 Q. Forty-eight hours later you could, as well, if
14 it's undisturbed?
15 A. I would expect to, yes.
16 Q. All right. I'm not going to belabor the point,
17 but three or four days later you could as well, right?
18 A. It would be possible.
20 THE COURT: State?
21 MS. ASKEY: Just briefly.
22 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
23 BY MS. ASKEY:
24 Q. If there's a latent print on a glass door and
25 it's the middle of winter and this is a door that's used all
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1 of the time, would you expect that print to be disturbed in a
2 shorter period of time?
3 A. I really wouldn't have any expectation because
4 I just don't know how that door was affected, where people
5 place their hands, how they are opening it. There are so
6 many variables. I don't know.
7 Q. Okay. Thank you.
9 THE COURT: May this witness be
10 released?
11 MS. ASKEY: Yes, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may be
13 released. You are free to go.
14 Further evidence by the State?
15 MS. ASKEY: State calls Mike Merkel.
16 THE COURT: Mike Merkel. Sir, if you would
17 please come forward and be sworn by the Clerk.
18 MICHAEL ALLEN MERKEL,
23 THE COURT: Please have a seat at the witness
24 stand.
25 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

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2 BY MR. HICKS:
3 Q. Good afternoon.
4 A. Good afternoon, sir.
5 Q. Will you state your full name for the record?
6 A. Michael Allen Merkel.
7 Q. How are you employed?
8 A. As a Detective with the Lincoln County
9 Sheriff's Office.
10 Q. And how long have you been employed as a
11 Detective with the Sheriff's Department?
12 A. Approximately four years as a Detective.
13 Q. Okay. And prior to that, what was your law
14 enforcement experience?
15 A. I was a crime scene investigator and I just
16 held various roles within the Sheriff's Office since 2003.
17 Q. Since 2003. So you have been doing this about
18 ten years?
19 A. Just about.
20 Q. Were you involved in the investigation of the
21 death of Betsy Faria?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. And did you actually have an opportunity to go
24 out to the scene, I guess it would have been the early
25 morning hours, maybe, of 28th or late the 27th?

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1 A. Actually, I believe I arrived on scene, I was
2 one of the first Detectives to arrive on scene the evening of
3 the 27th.
4 Q. When you arrived on the scene, tell us what you
5 saw? Outside. What was going on?
6 A. Oh, outside?
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. There was medical personnel, medical vehicles
9 and some patrol vehicles that were stationary outside of the
10 residence.
11 Q. Okay. And so there were law enforcement that
12 were already there?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Were the medical people there yet or were they
15 still there?
16 A. I believe they were still there. Their
17 vehicles were still there.
18 Q. Okay. Did you talk to anybody outside before
19 going in?
20 A. Typically, we'll speak to the person that's
21 keeping the crime scene checklist.
22 Q. Sure.
23 A. So I probably spoke to an Officer. I can't
24 recall which one.
25 Q. Did you see the defendant, Russell Faria

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1 outside when you arrived?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And where was he?
4 A. He was actually located in the rear of one of
5 the patrol vehicles.
6 Q. So you observed him there?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you speak with him at that time?
9 A. At that time, no, sir.
10 Q. Okay. What did you do after? Did you go into
11 the house?
12 A. I did.
13 Q. Okay. Tell us when you walked into the house,
14 what did you almost immediately see?
15 A. I almost immediately upon coming in through the
16 front door, I saw a subject laying on the floor with her head
17 more towards the front door and her feet back towards the
18 back door.
19 Q. And what did you immediately notice about the
20 subject?
21 A. There was a large amount of reddish substance
22 beneath her, around her and then upon a little bit closer
23 examination, she had several cuts on her arms and her hands.
24 A lot of her person appeared to be covered with blood and she
25 had, actually, a knife protruding from her body.

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1 Q. Okay. Did you make any -- when you had
2 responded out there, what did you believe you were possibly
3 responding to?
4 A. I believe believed the way it is dispatched or
5 relayed to me was a suspicious death.
6 Q. A suspicious death at that point?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. So when you looked at it, when you saw Mrs.
9 Faria laying there on the floor, did the thought cross your
10 mind that this could be a suicide?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay. What did you immediately think?
13 A. That those were not self-inflicted wounds that
14 she had and that the majority of the wounds on her hands and
15 arms appeared to be defensive wounds.
16 Q. Did you go anywhere else in the house besides
17 the living room area?
18 A. We briefly took a walk down the hallway and it
19 may not have been in this order, but we walked towards the
20 kitchen and then down the hallway.
21 Q. Okay. Did you see anything unusual when you
22 went into the kitchen or down the hallway?
23 A. It was, I guess everybody's house is, you know,
24 in different states of disarray. Nothing really out of the
25 ordinary until you got down the hallway and when we looked
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1 in, it looked like a jewelry chest had been broken, leaned up
2 against the wall and we were looking with flashlights. When
3 I looked back at the light switch, it appeared to have had
4 the same type of stain on the light switch.
5 Q. A stain that appeared to you to be, to the
6 naked eye to be what possibly?
7 A. It could have been blood.
8 Q. Okay. That's what you noticed in a quick --
9 you went back to the bedroom and you saw this. Let me ask
10 you this. Was it a tall or short jewelry box?
11 A. It was taller.
12 Q. You just noticed immediately that it was
13 broken?
14 A. Yes. One of the legs was broken. I forget
15 which one it was.
16 Q. And nearby there was a light switch?
17 A. The light switch was just inside the door to
18 the right.
19 Q. Okay. That's where you noticed what you
20 thought might be blood at the time?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. Did you do anything else? Did you go
23 anywhere else in the house doing a sweep of it?
24 A. Not that I recall, no, sir.
25 Q. This is pretty standard procedure. You do a

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1 protective sweep to make sure there is nobody left in the
2 house?
3 A. Yeah. It wouldn't have necessarily been for a
4 protective sweep because I think one of those had already
5 been conducted. Just a brief overview of the entire scene.
6 Q. Okay. From this scene, where did you go?
7 A. Myself and another Detective, actually,
8 escorted Mr. Faria back to the Sheriff's Office.
9 Q. Okay. And at this point, was Mr. Faria under
10 arrest?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. Okay. And so he went back to the Sheriff's
13 Department with you all?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. But you didn't escort him? Another Officer
16 escorted him?
17 A. It was me and another Officer.
18 Q. What did you guys do when you got back to the
19 Sheriff's Department?
20 A. We asked if Mr. Faria would like to sit in one
21 of our interview rooms and he said "yes", and we sat him in
22 there until we could kind of get some more facts about what
23 happened and then began gathering facts from him.
24 Q. Is it fair to say, at that point, it was just
25 kind of fact gathering?

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1 A. Oh, absolutely.
2 Q. He wasn't necessarily, at this point, a
3 suspect; is that right?
4 A. At that point, no, sir.
5 Q. Let me ask you this. In this room that you do
6 the interview, did you have the ability to record it?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. And so the interview that you had with
11 Mr. Faria is on recording?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Completely?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. All right. How long did you speak with him or
16 how long was he in that room initially with you talking, do
17 you recall?
18 A. It was -- and I had spoken with him
19 intermittently throughout this time. It was in excess of
20 four hours.
21 Q. Okay. So during this four-hour period, are you
22 speaking with him constantly or are you kind of in and out?
23 A. More in and out.
24 Q. Okay. Prior to speaking with him, are you able
25 to see on camera what's going on inside the interview room?

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1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. All right. Did you make any observations about
3 Mr. Faria while he was alone?
4 A. Well, on more than one occasion it appeared
5 that his demeanor was, I'll call it erratic. He would be
6 overwhelmed with emotion at times and then what appeared to
7 be completely emotionless and just stoic at other times.
8 Q. Would this happen pretty quickly, going from a
9 high emotion to almost nothing?
10 A. Absolutely.
11 Q. What about any observations you might have made
12 about him crying? Was he sobbing or crying?
13 A. I think when you say "crying", was he shedding
14 tears? Not necessarily. He would sob, but it didn't appear
15 as though he was, any water was coming from his eyes, any
16 tears were coming out.
17 Q. It appeared to you that he was, I mean, he was
18 sobbing, making noise, but there were no tears coming from
19 his eyes?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. You noted that in your report, correct?
22 A. I believe so. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. So at some point, were you able to
24 actually sit down with him and begin talking to him about
25 what had happened that evening and what he had to say about
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1 it?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Okay. And again, I know it was a four-hour
4 interview so I'm trying to, I don't want to play that in its
5 entirety for the jury. It would take a long time.
6 A. Right.
7 Q. I just want to get a few points here, okay?
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. Did Mr. Faria tell you where he had been that
10 evening?
11 A. Yes. He had said he had been in several
12 different locations but, yeah.
13 Q. Was he specific about where those locations
14 were?
15 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
16 Q. I mean, he kind of laid out -- he had gone to a
17 Conoco station, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And that he had gone to a Country Store?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. He had gone to another U-Gas station?
22 A. Yes. I believe he went to two U-Gas stations.
23 Q. Then he went to a QuikTrip?
24 A. That was the other one, QuikTrip.
25 Q. So he kind of laid out where he had been,

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1 right?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. This was all before 6 o'clock according to him,
4 right?
5 A. To the best of my recollection. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And then from 6 o'clock to roughly about 9
7 o'clock, where did he say he was?
8 A. He said he was at a friend's house.
9 Q. He was at a friend's house, correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. At a friend's house with some friends?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Did he tell you when he had last spoken
14 with his wife?
15 A. I believe he did, but I'd have to refer to my
16 reports for that.
17 Q. If that would help, if that would help refresh
18 your memory?
19 A. Yes, please.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don't mind if you lead.
21 MR. HICKS: You don't mind if I lead him a
22 little bit?
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
24 MR. HICKS: Okay.
25 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) Do you recall him telling you

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1 that he remembered getting a call from her about 5:15 to 5:30
2 or talking to her?
3 A. Yes, I believe that's correct.
4 Q. Didn't he tell you at that time that what she
5 relayed to him was he didn't need to pick her up down in Lake
6 St. Louis, she would be getting a ride with a friend, Pam
7 Hupp?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. So he's relating that to you that was his
10 understanding he no longer needed to pick her up?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. He was going to his friend's house?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Did he also relate to you that in that
15 conversation she told him, "she" being Betsy Faria, that she
16 had some good news for him?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And that she wanted to talk to him that night?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. Now there came a point during this
21 interview with him where he explained where he is that
22 evening, that you decide to read him or advise him of his
23 Constitutional Rights, correct?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. One, explain to us what's going on. Why not

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1 just do that at the beginning?
2 A. I don't think any of us had a real good grasp
3 of what was occurring, so to do some rapport-building and
4 maybe get a time line of each one of their lives for that
5 evening, we just sat down and spoke with Mr. Faria.
6 But in the event we were to go into questions
7 that would require Miranda, I wanted to already have that
8 base covered.
9 Q. Okay. So preliminarily, you kind of find out
10 who he was, who his wife was, where he had been that evening?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Now you are going to have to ask him more
13 direct questions, so you wanted to advise him of his rights?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. That's what you did, correct?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. He agreed to keep talking to you, right?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Is it at that time that he actually, you began
20 to ask him more specifically about where he had been prior to
21 going to his friend's house?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Okay. Is that when he actually began to
24 provide you with the exact times he was like -- didn't he
25 tell you that, well, at 5:15, around there, 5:15, 5:30, I was
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1 in front of Wal-Mart here in Troy and that's when I was
2 talking to Betsy?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Then he told you that he was headed towards
5 Highway 61 and it was at the Conoco station that he stopped
6 and purchased some gas; is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Then he said he headed on down towards
9 Wentzville area, right?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And as he was heading down there, he stopped at
12 the U-Gas station in Wentzville, correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. To get some cigarettes?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Then he told you that he went to the Greenes
17 Country Store to get some dog food, --
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. -- right? And then he told you that he went to
20 QuikTrip after that and he purchased two iced teas?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. That's what he told you, right?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Then he went to his friend's house?
25 A. Yes.
685
1 Q. Did he also advise you during that time period
2 he had called his mother and cancelled or let her know he
3 wasn't going to be coming over for dinner?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. All right. So he was pretty specific about
6 where he had been all the way up to 6 o'clock, correct?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. All right. You asked him about what time he
9 left his gathering with his friends, right?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And he told you he thought it was around 9
12 o'clock, somewhere in there, correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And that, in fact, he had gone to Arby's?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Gotten a sandwich, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And that he had gone on back to Troy?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. All right.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I'm going to object to the
22 continued leading at this point.
23 MR. HICKS: Okay. Sorry. I didn't know when I
24 could stop. All right.
25 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) When he got back to Troy, how

686
1 did he describe what happened when he walked in the house?
2 A. Throughout the interview, he had kind of given
3 me a couple different explanations, but the one that stood
4 out was he had offered the explanation that when he walked
5 in, he had started calling for Betsy and not gotten a
6 response.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. He had a bag of dog food on his right shoulder.
9 He had his keys in the left hand. He sets the bag of dog
10 food down, I believe, by the garage door.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. It's the door leading from the foyer up into
13 the garage so it was an interior door. And he said that's
14 when he noticed his, Betsy on the floor.
15 Q. After he set the dog food down and then he
16 had --
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Well, you had been there that, just a few hours
19 earlier, correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. You walked into the foyer and you looked right
22 to the right, was there -- did you have any difficulty at all
23 seeing Betsy laying on the floor?
24 A. When you walk in, you would actually look a
25 little to the left.

687
1 Q. I'm sorry.
2 A. No, I didn't have difficulty seeing.
3 Q. I got my directions wrong. When you walked in
4 and looked to the left, you didn't have any trouble seeing
5 Betsy lying there on the floor?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. What did he tell you he did after he saw Betsy
8 lying there on the floor?
9 A. He was actually pretty descriptive and said
10 that he had fallen to his knees and subsequently laid down,
11 what he and I had come to understand, it was ten to 12
12 inches, roughly a foot from Betsy herself.
13 Q. I'm going to stop you there. You said, one,
14 you said you and I came, he and you came to understand. How
15 did that come about?
16 A. When I asked him how close he got to her in the
17 interview, he actually put his hand up in between us and came
18 closer, and we readdressed it later.
19 And he had actually laid down on the floor to
20 show me how he was laying on the floor, and that's when I
21 asked him, well, so it's about, again, I asked him, so it was
22 about a foot away? Yeah, about a foot away.
23 Q. That he was laying there on the floor next to
24 her?
25 A. Correct.
688
1 Q. Why were you concerned about how close, maybe,
2 he had gotten to her on the floor?
3 A. I tended to, and I briefly explained this to
4 Russ during the interview, I'm always thinking, in a crime
5 scene perspective, for trace evidence and whatnot, and I was
6 a little, with what little I had from the scene and then from
7 what little I had spoke with Russ, I had kind of wondered how
8 he didn't get any blood or anything on him having laid down
9 like that on the floor.
10 Q. That was your concern?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I mean, the question that you had?
13 A. Yeah. Not a concern. More of a question in my
14 own mind.
15 Q. More of a question. So you wanted to clarify,
16 okay, I want to make sure I understand when you say you laid
17 on the floor and got close to her, how close are you talking?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. He demonstrated that for you?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Ultimately, what he demonstrated is that he
22 laid on the floor next to her and he was within ten to 12
23 inches of her face?
24 A. Yes, sir. Approximately a foot.
25 Q. Did he tell you whether or not he touched her?

689
1 A. I don't recall if we ever got into, did you
2 touch her or did you not touch her? I think I did ask him
3 something in regards to, did he embrace her? And then I kind
4 of put myself in that situation and what my reaction would
5 be, but I don't think it went much further than that.
6 Q. Let's skip back, then. He actually
7 demonstrated for you how he laid down, correct?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 Q. In his demonstration, was he just on hands and
10 knees or did he actually get down on his belly in his
11 demonstration?
12 A. In his demonstration, he laid flat on his
13 stomach. He had his elbows propped on the floor and his
14 hands up a little bit.
15 Q. Saying his face was about ten to 12 inches from
16 her?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And then, again, you had been out at the crime
19 scene and seen it, correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Did you question him about how that could have
22 happened if he had no blood on him?
23 A. I don't think I questioned him as directly as
24 that sounds. I more inferred that I had needed to understand
25 if there was any trace evidence from the person that did
690
1 that on him and if we needed to collect any of that from
2 him.
3 Q. All right. Did you make any observations of
4 him?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. Did you guys ultimately take his clothing?
8 Q. All right. Did you ever find any drop of blood
9 on him?
10 A. Not that I know of.
11 Q. Okay. Now you said -- did he tell you about,
12 did he tell you how long he laid there on the floor?
13 A. I don't recall him giving me a time frame.
14 Q. All right. What did he tell you that he did
15 next after he laid there on the floor? Did he tell you that
16 he thought that he could tell that she was dead?
17 A. Yes. He described how he thought she was dead
18 and then said he knew he needed to get her help and when he
19 went -- how did he say it?
20 He said he knew he needed to call to get her
21 help and when he reached -- and actually in the video, he
22 reaches for his cell phone but then he stops in the interview
23 and says, but I know I needed to -- something to this effect.
24 But I know I needed to call from a land line.
25 Q. So what did he say he did?

691
1 A. That he got up and went to the kitchen to call
2 9-1-1 from a land line.
3 Q. Okay. All right. Did you ask him whether he
4 had gone any place else in the house besides the foyer,
5 living room area and the kitchen?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And what did he tell you?
8 A. He said that since he arrived home, those were
9 the only places he had gone.
10 Q. When you asked him about embracing Betsy, why
11 he didn't or if he did, what was his explanation for why he
12 said he didn't?
13 A. I don't think he really provided an
14 explanation.
15 Q. Okay.
16 A. I don't know that he was expecting that
17 question or even knew how to answer it.
18 Q. Okay. I want to point you to your report, I
19 think it's Page 5 of 6?
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. The next to the last paragraph, I'll ask you to
22 read silently to yourself that first line there?
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. Okay. Does that refresh your recollection at
25 all about whether, one, whether you asked him if he embraced

692
1 Betsy and what his response was?
2 A. It does.
3 Q. Again, it sounds like you did ask him, hey, did
4 you embrace her? What was his response?
5 A. According to my report, when I asked him that,
6 he said she was already gone.
7 Q. So it was, I didn't embrace her. She was
8 already gone?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Did he tell you what he believed had happened
11 as far as why she was dead?
12 A. He stated at that point that he thought she had
13 killed herself.
14 Q. You said he thought she had killed herself.
15 Did he also make a statement along the lines of, but I didn't
16 touch her in case that wasn't the case?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Okay. And you documented that in your report?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. I understand that this interview was about four
21 hours long and that you were in and out. Was he, was the
22 defendant subsequently interviewed again or was the interview
23 continued by another Officer?
25 Q. Okay. And you weren't involved in that?

693
1 A. No, sir. I was not.
2 Q. Now I want to take you to, after you did this
3 interview of the defendant on the 27th, like the 27th, it
4 sounds like, into the early morning hours of the 28th, right?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Did you, on the 28th, attend the autopsy?
7 A. I believe it was on the 28th. Yes, sir.
8 Q. You were at the autopsy whatever date it was?
9 A. I was.
10 Q. Whatever date it was, you were at the autopsy?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. There were other Officers as well?
13 A. I believe I was the Detective assigned to that
14 one and there was a crime scene technician from St. Charles
15 County.
16 Q. Okay. And at the autopsy, do you recall that
17 there was a knife still in Betsy's neck, the knife that you
18 had seen there that night?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you State's Exhibit
21 14, when we -- previously the medical examiner already talked
22 about, but I want to show you, ask you if you recognize this
23 object in here? Do you recognize that item?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. All right. And what does that appear to be?

694
1 A. That appears to be one and the same that was
2 taken from the scene and the body at the autopsy.
3 Q. It appears to be the knife that was taken at
4 the autopsy?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And then that would have been taken by law
7 enforcement and packaged. Have you seen one of these
8 containers before?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. Okay. Does it go this way?
11 A. That way.
12 Q. So what would happen to this knife after it was
13 packaged? Where would it be taken?
14 A. It would be logged into evidence.
15 Q. Taken back to the Sheriff's Department?
16 A. Yes, sir. It actually goes in that portion.
17 Q. Yeah, you're right. All right.
18 MR. HICKS: Your Honor, at this time, the State
19 would move to admit into evidence State's Exhibit 14.
20 THE COURT: Any objection?
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: State's 14 is admitted into
23 evidence.
24 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) I want to jump ahead a few
25 days. I believe on early January at some point you had an

695
1 occasion to go back to the residence, 103 Sumac?
2 A. 130 Sumac.
3 Q. 130 Sumac. Sorry.
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. What date was that?
6 A. According to my report, it was on January 3rd.
7 Q. What was the purpose of going back on January
8 3rd?
9 A. To process the scene still for any further
10 evidence.
11 Q. Okay. Now, meanwhile, going back to the 28th,
12 sometime within that 24-hour period, the defendant was
13 released, correct? He wasn't arrested at that time?
14 A. I believe he was. I'm not entirely sure.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I'm going to object. That's
16 incorrect. I'll get into it later. He wasn't released on
17 the 28th.
18 MR. HICKS: Okay.
19 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) Well, after his initial, we'll
20 get into it with Floyd. On January 4th was the defendant --
21 on January 3rd, had the defendant been arrested yet?
22 A. Not that I'm not entirely sure of.
23 Q. You are not sure?
24 A. I'm not sure.
25 Q. Okay. All right. You are out here at the

696
1 residence, though. Was he present? Was he there?
2 A. No, he was not.
3 Q. Okay. And what was your purpose in being out
4 there? You said to further process the scene?
5 A. Right. We were actually going out there to
6 process the scene for any blood evidence, using a Blue Star
7 product called Blue Star.
8 Q. All right. And what is Blue Star? Can you
9 explain that to the jury?
10 A. It's a chemical reagent that, when applied, it
11 produces a blue, bright blue chemical luminescence to show
12 the presence of what is supposed to be blood.
13 Q. Do you have a report of that day, of that
14 incident that you generated or is it somebody else?
15 A. It's one that I wrote.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, may we approach?
17 THE COURT: You may.
18 (Discussion at the bench.)
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, this witness
20 indicated he has a report that he prepared from that day and
21 it appears that it was approved April 9th, 2013, of Ryan, by
22 Ryan McCarrick.
23 It also references some photographs that were
24 taken and seized for further examination. I've never
25 received nor seen nor heard of this report. I've asked

697
1 because I knew there was a canvas of the area.
2 I've never seen this report. I've never seen
3 any photographs. I would ask that any testimony regarding
4 this investigation be excluded and not gone into any further
5 at this point in time. Mr. Hicks has also indicated he's
6 never seen this report.
7 MR. HICKS: I've not seen this report.
8 However, what he was getting ready to testify about is them
9 putting down the Blue Star, the very subject matter of their
10 Motion in Limine, which I know they know about this being
11 conducted, so I don't know what the issue is besides that I
12 haven't seen this report.
13 I am just trying to figure out what is it that
14 you are surprised by here? You knew, we talked about it in
15 opening. You have a Motion in Limine that you filed with
16 regards to the test that was done in the kitchen. So I'm
17 trying to figure out --
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: The fact that we were told it
19 was done doesn't suffice for furnishing us of a report on
20 positive results. The fact that we were told it was done --
21 who told us?
22 MR. SWANSON: It was referenced in the Probable
23 Cause Statement.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: It was referenced in the
25 Probable Cause Statement, which has otherwise turned out to

698
1 be false. We made a specific recommendation from the State
2 for any reports reflecting this forensic examination and
3 canvassing of the house, and we've been told that it doesn't
4 exist. It's in a letter to us from the State.
5 MR. HICKS: Okay. Again, they knew about this
6 because they filed a Motion in Limine about it. Now I just
7 got this report.
8 MS. ASKEY: I've seen the report but I think it
9 was in reference to when you asked Detective McCarrick about
10 it. He hadn't approved it. It was evidently in a queue.
11 That's why it was a late generated report. He had generated
12 it earlier and subsequently -- I'm not telling them the
13 photos had been sent. I don't know, because I don't know if
14 I have seen photos.
15 But at the same time, it would have just been
16 generated right back out the same way any report that comes
17 in. But the point is, we've discussed it numerous, ad
18 nauseam we've discussed it, hence the Motion in Limine.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: All we discussed and filed a
20 Motion in Limine because there was a sentence in the Probable
21 Cause Statement. That's our only basis for the filing of a
22 Motion in Limine.
23 MS. ASKEY: We talked about it in depositions,
24 as well.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: They said there was no report.

699
1 MS. ASKEY: At that point, which is what
2 generates --
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: It generated regarding a walk
4 through of the house in a forensic examination of the house,
5 which we have not been made privy to, nor any photographs of
6 that report. We're entitled to those things.
7 THE COURT: Right, but I guess my question is
8 other than what's already been testified, how much further is
9 it going to go?
10 MR. SWANSON: How did we receive the report?
11 We would have asked about these pictures. Leah is not sure.
12 But we've never seen them.
13 The issue here is there's going to be evidence
14 from Dan Fahnestock that says we received various things from
15 the home and we attempted to test them for human blood. He
16 was unable to locate it.
17 Now this would seem to indicate that under Blue
18 Star there was a positive test result. We would have loved
19 to see those picture to figure out what they're talking
20 about.
21 MS. ASKEY: That reminds me. Thank you for
22 that.
23 The whole reason, and they also deposed Dr.
24 Fahnestock, who -- I don't know if he's a doctor, but at any
25 rate, the reason, a lot of his evaluation was based on the

700
1 tiles and/or drawer facings and/or whatever from the house
2 that had the positive reaction to the Blue Star.
3 The whole purpose, and what we talked about in
4 depositions both of Fahnestock and McCarrick, was regarding
5 those things. We didn't just randomly pick tiles and swabs
6 just, oh, hit or miss. Here, let's grab one.
7 So clearly there was a reason that certain ones
8 were seized and submitted to the lab for further testing.
9 Hence, the Motion in Limine which came about that we couldn't
10 say for sure it was blood evidence.
11 That's why we passed this out. It's a back
12 door way to keep -- and it's --
13 THE COURT: That's my question is since it's
14 already been talked about, is it actually that piece of paper
15 we're worried about or is there more to come?
16 MS. ASKEY: No.
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don't know. I assume he's
18 going to ask questions about the testing. I assume he's
19 going to ask questions that are reflected in the body of this
20 report.
21 Regardless, there's no back door situation
22 here. We weren't given the report. We have never seen it
23 before. We have no idea what tile he's talking about. We
24 were told that the lab received the tile.
25 MR. SWANSON: Had we received the report, had

701
1 we known there were pictures, we would have demanded the
2 pictures. We would have reviewed them. We would have
3 deposed Detective Merkel on just this issue, but we didn't
4 know who he was. We didn't know who this was.
5 All we knew is some of the tiles showed up in
6 the St. Charles County laboratory. That's where this
7 surprise comes from.
8 THE COURT: Should we just let them break?
9 It's been two hours.
10 MR. HICKS: That's fine.
11 THE COURT: Let's do that. Then we can hear,
12 too.
13 MR. HICKS: That's fine.
14 (End of bench discussion.)
15 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
16 at this time we are going to take a recess. The Court again
17 reminds you of what you were told at the first recess of the
18 Court.
19 Until you retire to consider your verdict, you
20 must not discuss this case among yourselves or with others or
21 permit anyone to discuss it in your hearing. You should not
22 form or express any opinion about the case until it is
23 finally given to you to decide.
24 Do not do any research or investigation on your
25 own about any matter regarding this case or anyone involved

702
1 with the trial. Do not communicate with others about the
2 case by any means. Do not read, view or listen to any
3 newspaper, radio, electronic communication from the Internet
4 or television report of the trial.
5 At this time, we will be at recess for about 15
6 minutes.
7 (The jurors left the Courtroom.)
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Judge, this report shows it was
10 generated January 3rd of 2012.
11 MR. SWANSON: 2013.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: No, 2012.
13 THE COURT: Approved --
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: And approved April 9th of 2013.
15 This was November.
16 MR. SWANSON: This was entered--
17 MR. HICKS: Why do you say it was generated
18 January 2013? That's the date they did it.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: The date this was conducted was
20 January 30, 2012. Apparently, the report was generated April
21 9th of 2013. We're now in November.
22 The State is under a duty to disclose discovery
23 and reports within its possession. My client is on trial for
24 murder. He's facing life imprisonment. This is a discovery
25 Brady violation. It does need to be disclosed. That's

703
1 number one.
2 Number two, it contains information that we
3 haven't received before and they are saying that the solution
4 presented, positive indication for the presence of blood with
5 the blue color luminescence.
6 Now we had, they had information on probable
7 cause in the Probable Cause Statement and we did have
8 information from the lab, but we have no idea where that
9 stuff came from. We have never seen this report for this
10 witness to testify.
11 MR. HICKS: Can I stop you right there? I'm
12 not trying to -- I'm going to let you continue your argument.
13 Didn't you depose Ryan McCarrick and you guys talked about
14 what they did in the deposition. So it wasn't -- I think you
15 learned something in the deposition about this.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: But we had no notice. We did
17 not have this report.
18 MR. HICKS: I understand.
19 THE COURT: I mean, is the argument not that
20 they didn't know, that they just didn't have this
21 memorialized physical piece of paper?
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: That's one, which is discovery,
23 but, two, it's that there was the presence of blood that
24 indicated positive.
25 Now we had that information in the Probable

704
1 Cause Statement. Officer McCarrick testified in deposition
2 that while he said to the best of his knowledge and belief,
3 so wasn't perjuring himself if it wasn't blood.
4 We filed the Motion. I think our Motion should
5 still stand that this Officer can't testify. He can show a
6 positive hit, but can't talk about the presence of blood.
7 THE COURT: I thought that's all we were
8 testifying to anyway in regard to the Motion.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: That's what we agreed to with the
10 Blue Star.
11 MR. HICKS: Right.
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: But you're not going to say it
13 was blood?
14 MR. HICKS: No. No, I was going to say it
15 showed positive, which is a presumptive -- just like what we
16 talked about in the pretrial Motion in Limine.
17 You are going to have experts say they did the
18 further testing. It's not blood, but cleaning agents could.
19 We are not arguing it's blood. We're arguing that it's
20 evidence of cleaning in that area.
21 Judge, the State will agree that if they did
22 not receive this report, and I trust these guys when they say
23 they have never seen it because I hadn't seen it, okay? That
24 that is something that, under the discovery rules, should be
25 disclosed.
705
1 That doesn't mean, though, that this witness
2 can't testify about anything. You have to the next, the next
3 thing that you consider is, all right, is there prejudice
4 here?
5 And I agree with you that when we're putting on
6 a witness and we had never told them about Blue Star and that
7 we were going to do any of this, that would be a surprise
8 discovery violation and we would have a real problem here.
9 It's not a Brady violation because there's
10 nothing exculpatory in it. They may want to try to argue
11 there's photographs they would like to see and, from my
12 understanding, we can provide those photographs, but they are
13 going to be black. There's nothing on them.
14 So again, I think what we're looking at is, is
15 what is the prejudice here in this witness testifying? What
16 has changed because of the existence of this report?
17 MS. ASKEY: I'm pulling the rule on it, Judge.
18 There's no surprise. He's deposed two witnesses and
19 referenced the Blue Star reactant on those specific items in
20 depositions months ago.
21 They filed who knows how many Motions to Compel
22 on me and Motion sanctions and the first time I'm hearing
23 about, oh, guess what? Here we are in the middle of trial
24 and I still don't have it until we show it to the witness?
25 Give me a break.
706
1 MR. SWANSON: This is not the first time I have
2 specifically -- I have --
3 MS. ASKEY: I've asked you -- as a matter of
4 fact, I sent you a letter saying, let me know if there are
5 any other discovery issues you have.
6 MR. SWANSON: My response was this.
7 MS. ASKEY: He just said, I have asked you for
8 it many times. If you knew you didn't have it --
9 MR. SWANSON: We went down this road with the
10 T-Mobile stuff where I have described stuff and you said, oh,
11 no. You have got it. You said on the record, you have got
12 this material then found out that you didn't give it to us.
13 MS. ASKEY: My point is that we went in. We
14 sat down and we looked piece by piece and we figured out,
15 hey, look. Guess what? You didn't have it. I apologize.
16 That is how we rectified the problem. We
17 didn't wait until trial and then say, oh. That's ridiculous.
18 It's not like it's a surprise.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: We haven't seen this.
20 MS. ASKEY: It's not like anything in there is
21 a surprise.
22 THE COURT: I think what you are saying is the
23 same exact thing they've been saying all along. It's just
24 they are not going to say it's a positive blood.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: All right. That's fine.

707
1 THE COURT: That's what I think the rule is.
2 MR. HICKS: I thought the objection was he
3 shouldn't be able to testify. We don't have this report.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: It's two-fold. As long as we're
5 where we are, he's not going to testify it's positive for
6 blood, we're okay.
7 THE COURT: My understanding is there's not a
8 soul in here who is going to testify that means a positive.
9 That's my understanding of what the whole point of that
10 Motion is.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Correct.
12 THE COURT: Everybody can say it's a
13 presumptive. Could be, couldn't be and you could say it
14 couldn't be, right?
15 MR. SWANSON: No one is going to object when we
16 cross-examine, according to your report, you took a series of
17 pictures, but those pictures did not turn out.
18 Those pictures would have been important to
19 document your investigation, and none of those pictures
20 developed. You don't have any of those to give to anybody?
21 MR. HICKS: I think he will tell you, sadly,
22 that is the case.
23 THE COURT: I mean, you weren't going to
24 introduce the piece of paper anyway, I'm assuming?
25 MS. ASKEY: No.

708
1 MR. HICKS: No. I think he had it for himself.
3 (The jury entered the Courtroom.)
4 THE COURT: Thank you. You may be seated.
5 Again, we'll do a call of the numbers for each
6 juror. Number 2, 3, 4, 11, 12, 15, 27, 29, 35, 38, 39, 44,
7 51, 58 and 61. The Court will note all jurors are present.
8 State may proceed when you are ready.
9 MR. HICKS: Thank you.
10 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) Detective, I think we were at
11 January 3rd, 2012. You are back at the house at 130 Sumac?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And my question to you is, could you explain to
14 the jury what Blue Star is?
15 A. Probably the easiest explanation is Blue Star
16 is a chemical reagent. It's a serological fluid visualizing
17 agent, so when you spray it on something, it shows the
18 presence of --
19 Q. I'm going to stop you right there. The
20 possible presence of?
21 A. The possible presence of.
22 Q. Because it's a presumptive test?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So go ahead. Possible presence of what?
25 A. Any type of serological fluid, which would

709
1 simply be your body fluids.
2 Q. How do you, for instance, -- I want to try to
3 simplify this as much -- let's say you are curious about the
4 bar right here?
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. Whether there was the presence of a serological
7 fluid?
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. Would you just take the Blue Star -- is it
10 sprayed? How do you apply it?
11 A. It's actually an over-application. So what you
12 would do is take, they call it a fine mist atomizer, which is
13 really just a spray bottle. Take a tablet. We actually use
14 magnum, which is a stronger version of Blue Star. There's
15 different levels of it, I guess.
16 We mix it according to the directions in the
17 package and then it has a limited amount of time to where it
18 is reactive to the possible serological fluids. So then we
19 spray it and overspray an area to make sure we've got the
20 whole area covered.
21 Q. Okay. So and that's what you would do here if
22 you were interested in trying to find out if there was any
23 reaction, correct?
24 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Now in the house there, I mean, did you spray

710
1 the entire house?
2 A. Not the entire house. No, sir.
3 Q. So you focused upon certain areas that you were
4 possibly interested in, correct?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. Is one -- what was one of those areas? Was it
7 the kitchen?
8 A. The kitchen and the dining room. Yes, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Let's go to, I think it's State's
10 Exhibit 9 that's already entered into evidence. If we could
11 put this up on the screen.
12 MR. HICKS: Yes. That's the one I want.
13 Q. (By Mr. Hicks) I'm going to hand you a copy of
14 it so you can see it.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. They have seen it. We'll get to that in a
17 minute, but do you see the linoleum area that you would
18 describe as the dining room area, the kitchen in this
19 photograph?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Okay. And if you want to get -- maybe if you
22 want to come down here?
23 A. Do you want me to come down there?
24 Q. Sure.
25 A. Okay.
711
1 Q. When you talk about the dining room, what are
2 you talking about?
3 A. The dining room area would be where the table
4 and chairs are and, actually, it begins where the carpet ends
5 right here.
6 Q. Okay. That's all linoleum?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Did that linoleum run into the kitchen?
9 A. It did. If you were to follow the linoleum
10 back this way, what would be to the left of the table from
11 this angle, it goes back in the kitchen.
12 Q. I want to take you to State's Exhibit 39.
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. Okay. We just saw the other end of that table
15 in that other picture?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Can you see the linoleum between the chairs and
18 -- is that what you are talking about, the linoleum going all
19 of the way back?
20 A. Yes. It goes back up into the kitchen here and
21 then the carpet will be kind of to the left by the island
22 there.
23 Q. Okay. So did you apply any Blue Star to the
24 linoleum area?
25 A. Yes.
712
1 Q. Did you apply it to all of it?
2 A. I wouldn't say all of it, but a fairly generous
3 portion of it. I'm not sure that we went too close to this
4 side by these windows.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Because once we start applying, once we fail to
7 see any type of response from it, we'll kind of go in a
8 different direction. So we just follow it. It's like just
9 follow a trail of breadcrumbs, essentially.
10 Q. Is that what you did here in the kitchen?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Can you describe, between these two pictures,
13 what areas, if any, alerted -- what's the proper term when it
14 actually --
15 A. It shows a positive chemical luminescence.
16 Q. Yes. A luminescence. It kind of brightens up?
17 A. Glows, essentially.
18 Q. Glows. Could you describe for the jury the
19 areas after you applied the Blue Star that began to glow?
20 A. I'd have to see this picture, also.
21 Q. If we can go back to 9, I believe.
22 A. There were some areas on this side of the
23 table, on the linoleum, and then they extended -- if you
24 could go to that next picture.
25 Then they extended into this linoleum area up

713
1 into the kitchen area.
2 Q. Okay. So was the entire, all that kitchen area
3 or was it, like you described breadcrumbs?
4 A. Just intermittent spots. I mean, it wasn't
5 completely inundated with the luminescence.
6 Q. Were there areas, like you described over here.
7 You didn't remember getting anything. Were there areas in
8 the kitchen where you didn't see anything?
9 A. There were. There's always voids.
10 Q. It looked to you like, again, you used the term
11 "breadcrumbs". Did there seem to be a track or a trail, a
12 path?
13 A. Yes. I would call it more a path. It wasn't
14 as finite as a specific trail, but there seemed to be a
15 general direction.
16 Q. Again, you said that was -- going back to that
17 one picture, starting at the doorway going to --
18 A. Maybe not all of the way to the doorway. Maybe
19 in front of this rug and then extending into the kitchen.
20 Q. Into the kitchen?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that.
23 A. No problem.
24 Q. Have a seat there.
25 A. Thank you.
714
1 Q. Now you can't. I lied to you.
2 A. I can't?
3 Q. Besides the linoleum in the kitchen, did you
4 put any of this Blue Star in any other items?
5 A. We did. We sprayed the cabinets. So when I
6 say "the cabinets", we didn't spray the interior of the
7 cabinets. We sprayed the faces of the cabinets.
8 Q. Both the bottom and the top?
9 A. We didn't go all of the way to the top and
10 that's only because -- what we would have done is, we started
11 spraying the tops and we would have disturbed what we already
12 sprayed.
13 It would have just dripped down. All it is is
14 water and a tablet, so it's not a thick liquid to where it
15 sticks. If we would have sprayed further up, it would have
16 dripped down and run this off.
17 Q. Are you also looking for places that had been
18 touched or there's been blood transfer --
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. -- or any other fluid transfer?
21 A. Serological fluid. Yes, sir.
22 Q. What do you recall, if any, luminescence from
23 spraying or applying the Blue Star to the cabinets.
24 A. To the best of my recollection, the only area
25 that showed the luminescence was this cabinet to the left of

715
1 the stove, and not even the lower portion but the upper
2 portion.
3 Q. That drawer there?
4 A. Yeah, the drawer. The face of the drawer.
5 Q. Do you recall what was in that drawer?
6 A. If I recall, there were towels.
7 Q. Just dish towels?
8 A. Hand towels.
9 Q. Hand towels. Similar to the ones that are
10 hanging on the stove there?
11 A. And they may have been the same one.
12 Q. Thank you. I appreciate it.
13 A. No problem.
14 MR. HICKS: I don't think I have any further
15 questions. Thank you.
16 THE COURT: Thank you.
17 Mr. Schwartz?
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
19 (Defendant's Exhibit L marked for
20 identification.)
22 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
23 Q. Is it Officer or Detective Merkel?
24 A. Detective, sir.
25 Q. Detective Merkel, this canvassing, search of

716
1 the house, when you administered this Blue Star -- where's
2 your report?
3 A. Right here.
4 Q. It was conducted what date?
5 A. This would have been conducted on January 3rd
6 of 2012.
7 Q. Now Russ Faria had been released approximately
8 48 hours on December 29th after he was arrested, correct?
9 A. That I'm not aware of. I mean, if that's what
10 you are telling me, then I have to agree with you.
11 Q. And the house had been released to him,
12 correct?
13 A. Not that I'm aware of.
14 Q. Well, by January 3rd there was no longer a
15 barricade around the house, correct?
16 MR. HICKS: Your Honor, I object to the
17 relevance. He's already asked and answered. He's not aware
18 of --
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 A. Not that I'm aware of, sir.
21 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) There was no barricade
22 around the house on January 3rd, correct?
23 A. Not to my recollection, sir.
24 Q. Russ, along with family members, had been going
25 in and out of the house?

717
1 A. Again, not that I'm aware of.
2 Q. There was nothing preventing anyone from going
3 in and out of the house prior to January 3rd, was there?
4 A. Sir, not that I'm aware of.
5 Q. Let me clarify. My question is you are not
6 aware of anything preventing Mr. Faria or his family members
7 from going in and out of that house, are you?
8 A. Correct. Not that I'm aware of.
9 Q. So followup. As far as you know, his aunt, his
10 sister, could have gone in that house?
11 A. Again, I'm not aware of any barricades or
12 anything, the status of the house.
13 Q. On January 3rd, just so we're clear, Betsy's
14 body had been removed?
15 A. Yes, sir. That I am aware of.
16 Q. When you went back in there, was there a
17 massive blood stain still on the carpet?
18 A. I don't even believe the carpet was still
19 there. I think it was removed by other crime scene personnel
20 but I would have to refer to my photographs.
21 Q. There was evidence of clean up by the time you
22 went back there on January 3rd, correct?
23 A. Crime scene processing. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Crime scene processes as well as clean up of
25 the house?
718
1 MR. HICKS: I'm going to object. It's vague
2 what you mean by "clean up".
3 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) You have no idea if anybody
4 cleaned the floors or the carpet prior to your arrival on
5 January 3rd?
6 A. In my profession, in my duties of crime scene
7 investigation and forensic analysis of a scene is different
8 than clean up. We usually leave that to other people.
9 Q. That's my point. You don't know if Russell or
10 anyone in his family, prior to January 3rd, went in that
11 house and cleaned it?
13 MR. HICKS: Objection to the form of the
14 question. There's a lot that he doesn't -- I mean, --
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: He doesn't know.
16 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) The point is, you have no
17 idea, correct?
18 A. Correct. Not that I'm aware of.
19 Q. Someone could have. Somebody may not have?
20 A. Somebody may not have, correct.
21 Q. All right. And when you went in on January 3rd
22 and did this Blue Star, you took photographs?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Where are those photographs?
25 A. I believe they are, they were saved.

719
1 Q. They were saved?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. Did you ever review those photographs?
4 A. I did.
5 Q. What did they show?
6 A. Absolutely nothing.
7 Q. They showed absolutely nothing?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. Because why?
10 A. Because of a malfunction in our camera that we
11 have had since been repaired.
12 Q. And this report that we're talking about that
13 you are refreshing your recollection with was approved April
14 9th of 2013; is that correct?
15 A. If that's what it says there, yes, sir.
16 Q. All right. And there's no photographs of this
17 applying of the Blue Star?
18 A. There are photographs. However, --
19 Q. There's no photographs we can see?
20 A. -- they did not produce any results because of
21 the camera malfunction.
22 Q. Okay. So you know the body has been removed.
23 You know the carpet has been removed. Yet, you have no idea
24 if anybody has actually conducted a clean up there?

720
1 Q. But you do know there was no barricade and the
2 house was unlocked?
3 A. Not that I -- to the best of my recollection,
4 not that I'm aware of, sir.
5 Q. Not that you're aware of which? I may be
6 asking questions that are confusing you. Was the house
7 locked?
8 A. That, I don't know of.
9 Q. Okay. And the house was, was the house
10 barricaded with the police tape anymore?
11 A. I do not recall, sir.
12 Q. All right. So you talked about this. It's a
13 presumptive test?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. It doesn't necessarily indicate blood. It
16 doesn't mean that there is. You can get false positives,
17 correct?
18 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir.
19 Q. One of the things that would cause false
20 positives is common household cleaning agents?
21 A. That I'm not aware of. I'm not an expert in
22 this matter.
23 Q. You don't know that?
24 A. I do not know that.
25 Q. During the course of the investigation, drain

721
1 pipes were removed from the side of the house?
2 A. I believe so, yes, sir.
3 Q. No blood was discovered in any of those drain
4 pipes?
5 A. I haven't reviewed those forensic reports, sir.
6 Q. Was there any potential cleaning devices and/or
7 tiles were removed and there was no blood or clean-up
8 evidence that was recovered from the house?
9 A. Again, I'm not aware of any of the forensic
10 analysis.
11 Q. All right. Now you also talked about this
12 broken jewelry chest in State's Exhibit 4. You talked about
13 that on Direct?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. You saw that?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And it was broken. Did you come across
18 information that that was broken prior to December 27th?
19 A. Yes. I had actually spoke with Russ about that
20 during his interview.
21 Q. Okay. Did you come across additional
22 information from another Investigator that was broken prior
23 to December 27th?
24 A. I may have. We share information amongst the
25 investigators during the investigation itself.

722
1 Q. Okay. Now you said when you first met Russ you
2 took him back to the station?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. He accompanied you?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. And one of the things you said that struck me
7 was that you wanted to create some sort of relationship with
8 him?
9 A. I believe I used the word "rapport".
10 Q. Why?
11 A. Just so we could figure out what happened.
12 Q. You told him, look, we need to figure out what
13 had happened here, right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And he talked with you for four hours?
16 A. Total, yes.
17 Q. He was in that room for four hours with some
18 bathroom breaks and you gave him some cigarettes?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And water, right?
22 Q. In that room, you said the whole thing was
23 audio and videotaped?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. What does that camera look like?

723
1 A. The camera itself is, I may not be using the
2 correct terminology here, but is a pinhole camera.
3 Q. How big is it, if you could show us the size of
4 that camera? It's the size of a pinhole, right?
5 A. Maybe not that small, but yeah.
6 Q. Its lens is the size of a fingernail?
7 A. That's fair to say.
8 Q. All right. So you don't tell somebody when
9 they are in the room, you are being filmed, do you?
10 A. No, sir. We do not.
11 Q. You didn't tell Russell, hey, Russ, we're going
12 to be filming these entire four hours, did you?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. So the first thing that happens is you left him
15 alone in the room for a relatively significant period of
16 time?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. He cried?
20 Q. He continued to whisper, "No, no, no, no, no,
21 no, no, no"?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. He prayed?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. In the room alone?

724
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And then you went in and you talked to him for
3 a few minutes. You got him a bottle of water and then you
4 left again and observed him again, correct?
6 Q. He hit his head against the wall, banged it
7 against the wall?
8 A. I would have to refer to my report. I don't
9 remember him hitting his head against the wall.
10 Q. Well, let me go through this. "He sighed
11 deeply" was, I think, your term. The fourth paragraph, first
12 page down. Maybe third paragraph.
13 MR. SCHWARTZ: May I approach, Your Honor?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 Q. Do you see what I'm talking about?
16 A. Yes. Right here.
17 Q. He continued to hit his head against that back
18 brick wall, right?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. He repeated Betsy's name and said, "No, no, no,
21 no, no, no, no"?
22 A. According to my report, yes, sir.
23 Q. He put his head into his hands and sobbed on
24 that table in the room?
25 A. Yes, sir.
725
1 Q. And you were watching him the whole time?
2 A. Not the entire time that I recall.
3 Q. And he was in the room alone?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. With a pinhole camera the size of less than a
6 fingernail, watching him, at least taping him?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. And then you went in and you told him, look,
9 Russ. You have got to calm down and we have to find out what
10 happened. You established that rapport?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. As a matter of fact, one of the things you
13 utilized -- you want to find a commonality, right, when you
14 try to establish rapport?
15 A. Absolutely.
16 Q. One of the things you utilized to calm him down
17 and establish a rapport was his religion --
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. -- and Pastor Mike?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Do you actually know Pastor Mike or did you
22 just tell him that?
23 A. I do.
24 Q. And you told him you know Pastor Mike. You
25 talked about Pastor Mike. Pastor Mike at the Morning Star

726
1 Church?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And Russ calmed down and you continued to try
4 to keep him calm and then you left the room again to get him
5 a bottle of water. And then, last paragraph, first page, he
6 continued to say "no" and he became emotional and his "no's"
7 became louder and, ultimately, you then entered the room and
8 you told him, look, we need to understand who you and your
9 wife are, correct?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And you talked about whether or not he thought
12 Betsy could do this to herself, but he described her as a
13 positive person, didn't he?
14 A. He did.
15 Q. And you continued and, you know, what could
16 bring her down? And he said, lately she had been depressed
17 about the cancer diagnosis; is that correct?
18 A. To the best of my recollection.
19 Q. Well, he said she did not seem depressed. I'm
20 sorry.
21 A. I was going to say. I don't think she was.
22 Q. I misspoke.
23 A. I think it was based on recent conversations
24 with a friend of hers.
25 Q. Yeah, a friend. She was depressed over a

727
1 friend of hers who talked about she needed to prepare for
2 death, and that's what he said got her depressed at some
3 point in time; would that be correct?
4 A. I don't recall the preparation for death
5 comment. I believe it was just a conversation that she had
6 had with a friend.
7 Q. All right. Well, --
8 A. I'll have to locate that in my report.
9 Q. At any rate, before you started talking to him
10 about the events of that night, he left the room. He used
11 the restroom and he went back in the room and he was in the
12 room alone. At that point he got on his knees and began
13 repeating "no", didn't he?
14 A. Was this after his restroom break? Is that
15 what you're referring to?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. You then came in and started talking to him
19 about him, his relationships, the family dynamic, correct?
20 A. Briefly. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And you talked about his daughters and some
22 issues with the daughters?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You talked about stress in his life and how he
25 could find peace through religion?

728
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Then you talked about his actions during that
3 night. As Mr. Hicks went into, he told you where he was. He
4 told you that he stopped at the Conoco.
5 He told you he worked all day and ultimately
6 left around 5 o'clock, correct?
7 A. I don't think he ever articulates when he stops
8 working for the day.
9 Q. So didn't tell you when he stopped working?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. But he told you ultimately, eventually -- to
12 encapsulate it, every Tuesday night he goes his friend's and
13 he plays this game?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. He talked about where he stopped on this
16 particular night?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. That would be the Conoco, the U-Gas, Greenes
19 Country Store and the QuikTrip, correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And ultimately, did you participate in the
22 canvassing of those locations?
23 A. I believe I responded to one of the locations.
24 Q. And all of those, all of the information he
25 gave you turned out to be accurate?

729
1 A. To the best of my knowledge. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And he said he arrived at his friend's
3 approximately 6 o'clock?
4 A. Yes. I believe he said that.
5 Q. He told you, however, on his way, he called his
6 Mom because he usually eats dinner there and he told her he
7 wouldn't be having dinner with her that night because he had
8 some errands to run, correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. He also called his wife and was informed by his
11 wife that he didn't need to pick her up because Pam Hupp had
12 offered her a ride home; is that correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Now he stated when he got home, well, before he
15 got home he said he left approximately 9 o'clock from his
16 friend's?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. And that they didn't play the game that night
19 because a person was missing, so they watched movies instead?
20 A. I'm not aware of why they didn't play their
21 game.
22 Q. Okay.
23 A. They just watched movies. I do know that.
24 Q. He told you the movies they watched?
25 A. I believe he just told me one of them.

730
1 Q. Okay. "Conan"?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. He didn't tell you they watched "The Road"?
4 A. He said another movie. I don't think he was
5 able to --
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. I don't recall.
8 Q. Then he left approximately 9 o'clock and
9 stopped at Arby's?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Did you participate in the canvassing of his
12 vehicle?
13 A. Not to my knowledge.
14 Q. Were you aware that an Arby's receipt was
15 ultimately discovered in his vehicle?
16 A. Not to my knowledge. No, sir.
17 Q. Okay. He told you he got home and he put the
18 dog food down next to the garage door?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 (Defendant's Exhibit M marked for
21 identification.)
22 Q. Let me show you what I've marked Defendant's
23 Exhibit M. Do you recognize what's contained within that
24 photograph?
25 A. It appears to be the entryway into the

731
1 residence.
2 Q. Does that appear as the way you saw it, without
3 maybe some items moved when you got there? Were those items
4 there? You didn't take that picture?
5 A. No. No, sir.
6 Q. All right.
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, I would ask for the
8 admission of Defendant's Exhibit M.
9 THE COURT: Any objection to Defendant's M?
10 MR. HICKS: No.
11 THE COURT: Defendant's M is admitted into
12 evidence.
13 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Now when you walk in --
14 could you show that to the jury? That's the hallway. That
15 is a picture of the hallway when you enter into the
16 residence, correct, from the front door foyer?
17 A. Front door foyer. Yes, sir.
18 Q. There appears to be a bag of dog food on the
19 left by the door, correct?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. And that door leads to the garage?
22 A. Yes, sir. I believe it does. Next to the
23 stairwell.
24 Q. And that would be exactly as Russ told you he
25 did. He told you he that had a big bag of dog food over his
732
1 shoulder. Laid it down. Correct?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And then he told you he threw his jacket on the
4 seat. Let me show you what's been marked as Defendant's
5 Exhibit F. Do you recognize what's in that photograph?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. And that was when he noticed Betsy?
8 A. When he was taking his jacket off.
9 Q. When he was taking his jacket off?
10 A. That's what he says, yes.
11 Q. He told you he fell down to the floor, correct?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. And you said you were showing with your hands
14 and it was approximately, it came to about a foot away?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And you continued to tell him, you know what?
17 Why is there not -- you were concerned there wasn't blood on
18 him if he was a foot away from her head; is that correct?
19 A. Blood or trace evidence.
20 Q. Blood or trace evidence. Let me show you
21 what's already been admitted -- no, I'm sorry.
22 I'm going to show you what's previously been
23 marked as, admitted as State's Exhibit 10, and I want to show
24 you what I'm now marking Defendant's Exhibit L. Could you
25 say what's in Defendant's Exhibit, State's Exhibit 10?

733
1 (Defendant's Exhibit L marked for
2 identification.)
3 A. Is that going to be this one?
4 Q. It's the one that has no marking on the back.
5 A. Okay. All right.
6 Q. What is State's Exhibit 10?
7 A. That appears to be Mrs. Faria from that
8 evening.
9 Q. All right. And Defendant's Exhibit L?
10 A. The same, just from a different angle.
11 Q. And you can see a little bit of a distance from
12 her head, can't you?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. And I understand it's plain view, but if you
15 were a foot away from her head, can you show that --
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Judge, I would ask that
17 Defendant's Exhibit L be admitted into evidence.
18 THE COURT: Any objection regarding Defendant's
19 Exhibit L?
20 MR. HICKS: No.
21 THE COURT: Defendant's Exhibit L is admitted
22 into evidence.
23 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) If you look at Defendant's
24 Exhibit L and State's Exhibit 10.
25 A. Yes, sir.
734
1 Q. Can you show those to the jury?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. One is just basically from a different angle
4 and showing a little bit further away from her head. "L"
5 shows a little bit further away than 10, right?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Can you look at those pictures and is there any
8 trace evidence or blood evidence a foot away from her head
9 visible to the naked eye that you see?
10 A. To the naked eye, there's some small droplets
11 which would be on the lower portion of this photo.
12 Q. Right.
13 A. And would really be on the lower portion of
14 that photo.
15 Q. So those same photos that are sort of down
16 toward where her arms are that you are referring to?
17 A. Yes. From this angle, it looks like it's more
18 down.
19 Q. So he told you he laid approximately a foot
20 from her head and he could tell she was dead. She wasn't
21 breathing. Her tongue was hanging out and she had a large
22 gash on her arm; --
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. -- is that correct? You asked him why he
25 didn't embrace her and he said because he could tell she was
735
1 already gone; is that correct?
2 A. Correct. Yes, sir.
3 Q. And he stated to you at that point he thought
4 maybe she had killed herself?
6 Q. But he said, you know what? He knew that if
7 she did kill herself, if he touched anything, that would
8 disturb any sort of investigation; is what he said to you?
10 Q. You went on and asked him about him calling for
11 help and again asked him, you know, if she did this; and he
12 said he was unsure if she did it or someone did it. When you
13 asked him if he thought Betsy would do something like this to
14 herself, what did he say?
15 A. He stated he would like to think not, according
16 to my report.
17 Q. You said you thought you went to -- what was
18 Russ wearing when you interviewed him?
19 A. I don't recall the description of his clothing.
20 It was so long ago.
21 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I stated
22 to you he was wearing an orange T-shirt, blue jeans?
23 A. That sounds familiar.
24 Q. And boots?
25 A. It might have been midtops. I don't know that

736
1 they were fully boots.
2 Q. Okay. Fair enough. And those items were
3 seized, correct?
4 A. To the best of my knowledge. Yes, sir.
5 Q. And those items he was wearing in that
6 interview with you appeared to the same items he was wearing
7 on that -- where did you go to seize a videotape from earlier
8 that day?
9 A. To the -- what was it? A Conoco gas station.
10 Q. And those items, he appeared -- at the Conoco
11 gas station, he didn't go inside the Conoco, did he?
13 Q. He just stood at the pump and pumped gas,
14 didn't he?
15 A. Again, I'm not aware of whether he went inside
16 or not.
17 Q. Well, you seized the tape?
18 A. That I don't recall if I did. I'd have to look
19 at a record.
20 Q. Did you ever review that tape, that video?
21 A. I may have looked at it at the gas station, but
22 I don't recall reviewing it at after the fact.
23 Q. Okay. But you know the cameras there were at
24 least working that night because you reviewed it?
25 A. Yes, sir.
737
1 Q. He appeared to be wearing the same clothes at
2 that Conoco gas station that you interviewed him in, in
3 addition to the black jacket and baseball cap, correct?
4 A. I don't recall a baseball cap, but similar
5 clothing. Yes, sir.
6 Q. He didn't have the baseball cap when he talked
7 to you but he was wearing the baseball cap at that point in
8 time on the tape, right?
9 A. I don't recall.
10 Q. Eventually, you seized his clothing or someone
11 seized his clothing?
12 A. Someone did. Yes, sir.
13 Q. But not you?
14 A. Not that I recall.
15 Q. I think Mr. Hicks asked you what time did your
16 interview conclude?
17 A. That I'm not sure what time it concluded.
18 Q. Sometime in the morning hours?
19 A. It was early on the following day.
20 Q. All right, then. Are you aware as to who
21 conducted the next interview?
22 A. I believe it was Major Floyd and another
23 Detective. I'm not sure who the other Detective was.
24 Q. And are you aware as to the length of that
25 interview?
738
1 A. I am not.
2 Q. Just so we are clear, and I think I asked, you
3 didn't tell Russ there was a camera on him when he was alone
4 in that interview room?
5 A. No, sir. I did not.
6 Q. That would be breaking protocol, wouldn't it,
7 to tell someone you are filming them? It's an investigatory
8 tool, correct?
9 A. It's an investigatory tool, but I don't think
10 it's part of policy or protocol.
11 Q. But you didn't tell him and he had no way of
12 knowing?
13 A. Correct.
17 BY MR. HICKS:
18 Q. Are you familiar with luminol?
19 A. Yes, sir. I've had experience with luminol, as
20 well.
21 Q. Luminol is kind of one of the older presumptive
22 tests that are used before Blue Star came around, isn't it?
23 A. Blue Star is a more advance version of luminol.
24 Q. I think you were asked on Cross-examination
25 about false positives with Blue Star. With luminol, are you
739
1 familiar with, because I think you specifically, you were
2 asked about cleaning agents?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Are you familiar with luminol showing false
5 positives for cleaning agents?
6 A. Again, I'm not familiar with the analysis --
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. -- or the materials safety data sheets for each
9 one.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. I'm trained on the application and the
12 documentation of each.
13 Q. The application and documentation?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. You guys used to use luminol, but now you use
16 Blue Star?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Okay. I want to talk about the -- you said you
19 went back to the Sheriff's Department, right? Where did you
20 take Mr. Faria on the 27th?
21 A. To the Sheriff's Office.
22 Q. Okay. And I want to just -- this room that he
23 was interviewed in?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Are there other rooms around it? Where is it

740
1 in location to Detectives and everybody else? Explain it to
2 us.
3 A. Well, it's actually on the administrative side
4 of our building. So the door that you walk in is actually
5 our command staff hallway and you pass our department lunch
6 room and go down a hallway. At this point, they don't have
7 pictures, but there used to be pictures and a trophy case and
8 stuff like that.
9 Then you walk in and there's a computer station
10 and just a couple other rooms that are interview rooms, as
11 well.
12 Q. Are there people in the Sheriff's Department?
13 A. During normal business hours, yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. That night, when you placed Mr. Faria in
15 the room, did you need the aid of a camera or audio in order
16 to hear him in there?
17 A. In order to really know where he was in the
18 department, yes.
19 Q. I'm talking about -- I know you were watching
20 on audio/video, all right?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Could you hear him through the door or did you
23 need the assistance of that audio and video in order to hear
24 what was going on?
25 A. We were in such close proximity. I was in and

741
1 about the media room, which is just off from the, one of the
2 two interviews rooms. And the way our interview rooms are
3 set up, sound just travels. So I mean I wouldn't have
4 necessarily needed it.
5 Q. Okay. So you could hear it without the aid of
6 some sort of equipment?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. Were you the only one there that night?
9 A. No. There was another Detective with me. I
10 believe it was Detective Harney.
11 Q. All right. You talk about smoke breaks and
12 water breaks?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Bathroom breaks?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Because there was a long period of time?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Did you ever have to go retrieve a Kleenex or a
19 handkerchief for Mr. Faria to wipe his tears?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. All right. You've interviewed people before
22 who have cried and shed tears, haven't you?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You can go get Kleenexes for them to help them
25 clean up, right?

742
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. So you could continue to talk to them?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Did you ever have to do that with Mr. Faria?
5 A. No, sir.
6 MR. HICKS: Thank you, Detective.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: No questions.
10 May this witness be released?
11 MR. HICKS: Yes.
12 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You may be
13 released.
14 THE WITNESS: Thank you, ma'am.
15 MR. HICKS: Raymond Floyd.
16 RAYMOND FLOYD,
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: The State has informed me at
23 this point with this witness they intend to get into Mr.
24 Faria's beliefs regarding his life insurance on his wife.
25 I would ask that any line of questioning

743
1 regarding the life insurance be excluded based on my Motion
2 in Limine, Number 1, and based on the fact that I was not
3 able to get into the actual application of life insurance
4 that had been altered and put into a witness's name,
5 specifically Pam Hupp.
6 MR. HICKS: Well, there's no information -- I
7 think this has already been ruled on previously, but Mr.
8 Faria, during his second interview, they were talking
9 about -- it was brought up about the life insurance policies.
10 He acknowledged that there were three. One
11 that he owned through his work on her, but it wasn't -- that
12 he was a Beneficiary. He had through his work and that he
13 was the Beneficiary, and that there were two other life
14 insurance policies where he also believed he was the
15 Beneficiary and they totaled at least $300,000 that he was
16 going to be, that if he was still the Beneficiary, that he
17 would receive those funds.
18 So he's just showing that he did know about
19 these and, again, I think that that goes to directly to a
20 motivation to why he might have killed her for money.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would simply retort that that
22 would be the same as Pam Hupp; that she might have killed her
23 for money. If that's the motive, I was not allowed to get
24 into that with Mrs. Hupp.
25 MR. HICKS: And I would agree, absolutely, that

744
1 that would be motive for Pam Hupp. But Pam Hupp, that's not
2 relevant for us to bring up because there's no direct
3 evidence of her involvement. That's the difference.
4 THE COURT: So basically, you are going--
5 COURT REPORTER: Judge, I can't hear you.
6 THE COURT: You are going to ask that he
7 acknowledge the employment policies?
8 MR. HICKS: Did you guys discuss life insurance
9 policies? Yes. What did he tell you? That they had three,
10 that he was the Beneficiary and that it was sum of at least
11 $300,000.
12 THE COURT: And I guess I'm not clear. I mean,
13 that's different than Pam's because of the other ruling.
14 More of an opportunity to have jury causal.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: I can't hear you.
16 THE COURT: On Pam's, didn't we have motive
17 possible but not the causal to try deference?
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: That's where I would beg to
19 differ because we can show she was with the decedent at that
20 time that we believed she died.
21 The Court has ruled on that but has ruled that
22 that doesn't come in. I would argue that there's less,
23 significantly less direct evidence that Russell Faria was
24 with her at the time of the death.
25 For the same reason the State has argued they

745
1 want to get into the life insurance, and I would argue any
2 life insurance policy is misleading to this jury based upon
3 State's argument earlier regarding Pam Hupp.
4 MR. HICKS: There is much more evidence against
5 Mr. Faria than there is against Pam Hupp. There is a history
6 of animus and anger and fighting between these two.
7 There is her blood, he has her blood on his
8 slippers in the closet. There is him finding her and
9 claiming that she committed suicide when it's clear to
10 everybody else that she didn't commit suicide.
11 I think that that in and of itself, it may not
12 be enough direct evidence to ultimately convince a jury. I
13 don't know. We're going to find out, but that is much more
14 direct evidence than they have than just her mere presence,
15 Pam Hupp, dropping her off during that time period. That's
16 the whole point.
17 I don't disagree that if there was direct
18 evidence and they could have gone down that road with the
19 life insurance policy, they would be up here saying that they
20 want to be show that she's the Beneficiary to show, that they
21 would want to be showing it's for motive. The same reason we
22 want to do it for Mr. Faria because we do have direct
23 evidence that he caused her death.
24 THE COURT: At this point, the Court is going
25 to allow it to the extent you described, just to show it

746
1 existed.
4 BY MR HICKS:
5 Q. Would you state your name for the record?
6 A. Yes, sir. My name is Raymond Floyd.
7 Q. And what is your title?
8 A. I'm a Major.
9 Q. A Major. And where do you work?
10 A. I work for the Troy City Police Department.
11 Q. Okay. And so Major Floyd, that's how I'm going
12 to address you if that's all right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. What was your involvement in the
15 investigation of the Betsy Faria homicide?
16 A. I was also attached to the Major Case Squad as
17 an investigator at the time.
18 Q. Okay. So you did get involved in this
19 investigation?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. All right. Could you tell us, in the early
22 morning hours of the 28th of December, where were you?
23 A. I was home sleeping.
24 Q. Okay. And at some point, did you receive a
25 call?
747
1 A. Yes, sir. I did.
2 Q. All right. And where were you asked to go?
3 A. The Lincoln County Sheriff's Office.
4 Q. Is that where you went?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. What was the purpose of going down to the
7 Lincoln County Sheriff's Office?
8 A. There was a Major Case call out in Lincoln
9 County.
10 Q. Okay. Did you meet with other Officers there?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. All right. Ultimately, did you -- and those
13 are -- sometime on the 28th, did you have an opportunity to
14 sit down with the defendant, Russell Faria, and interview
15 him?
16 A. Yes, sir. I did.
17 Q. Where did that occur?
18 A. In an interview room at the Lincoln County
19 Sheriff's Office.
20 Q. Okay. And was it daylight by then?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. So it was still dark?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Do you recall approximately how long you
25 interviewed the defendant?

748
1 A. The interview would have started roughly at
2 4:00 in the morning and probably concluded somewhere around
3 4:00 in the afternoon.
4 Q. All right. So you interviewed him for a good,
5 long time, 12 hours?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Okay. We're not going to play that for the
8 jury, okay?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. During that 12-hour period, though, were there
11 many breaks?
12 A. Yes, sir.
13 Q. Was he provided anything to drink?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. To go to the bathroom?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Smoke breaks?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Do you recall, was he offered the opportunity
20 if he wanted something to eat?
21 A. He was offered and also did eat.
22 Q. Okay. So it wasn't like you guys were keeping
23 him in a room, starving him to death or anything?
24 A. No, sir.
25 Q. Let me ask, again, I know it was a long

749
1 interview. I know it's a 12-hour period. You didn't
2 interview him the entire 12 hours, right?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Do you have any idea, a rough estimate, about
5 how long you guys actually spent talking during that 12-hour
6 period?
7 A. Probably over five or six hours.
8 Q. All right. So almost half of it?
9 A. Probably.
10 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this. During those
11 conversations that you had with Mr. Faria, okay, did you at
12 all discuss -- they had a dog, correct?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. And did you have any discussion with him
15 about that dog?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this. Did he tell you
18 where the dog was when he first entered the residence on the
19 27th?
20 A. Yes, he did.
21 Q. And where did he say the dog was?
22 A. He said it was chained outside in the back.
23 Q. Okay. Now did you have -- in discussing with
24 Mr. Faria this dog, did he tell you, one, what kind of dog it
25 was?
750
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. What kind of dog was it?
3 A. If I remember right, he said it was part Golden
4 Retriever and part Chow.
5 Q. What about it's temperament. Did he describe
6 that at all?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. What did say about the dog?
9 A. He said that strangers, it would probably come
10 at them. Friends and family it was friendly with.
11 Q. All right. So people that it knew, friends and
12 family, friendly. Strangers, not so much?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Did he describe it as being protective?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. Okay. And in fact, did he recall incidents
17 even with the mailman and people like that?
18 A. I believe there was one incident he described
19 about somebody working on an air conditioner and how the dog
20 kind of let him know that he was there.
21 Q. All right. So this was a protective, could be
22 aggressive-type dog?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. According to the defendant?
25 A. Correct.
751
1 Q. All right. Did he even go as far as to say
2 that it was his belief that a stranger would not be able to
3 put the dog on a leash?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. When he, do you recall what he told you
6 about when he first walked into this house on the 27th and he
7 discovered his wife? He said he discovered her there on the
8 floor, correct?
9 A. Yes, sir, he did.
10 Q. That's what he's telling you?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Did he tell you whether the lights were on?
13 A. Yes, he did.
14 Q. What lights did he say were on?
15 A. He said the light in the foyer was on, the
16 light in the living room was on, and the light in the dining
17 room was on. And I believe he also said the back porch where
18 the dog was.
19 Q. Okay. Did he indicate whether any other lights
20 were on in the house other than those?
21 A. No, he didn't.
22 Q. Okay. Did he tell you any rooms that he went
23 in?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. What rooms did he say he went into?

752
1 A. The living room and also the dining
2 room/kitchen, which is kind of connected.
3 Q. Okay. Now prior to interviewing him, you were
4 aware that he had been interviewed by Detective Merkel,
5 correct?
6 A. I knew that he had been talked to by Lincoln
7 County Sheriff's Office. I wasn't sure which Detectives or
8 Officers may have spoken with him.
9 Q. Had you been provided any information up to
10 that point about what he had said?
11 A. No, sir.
12 Q. That is what I'm trying to establish here. You
13 were kind of going at it fresh, right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. So is it fair to say you hit a lot of the areas
16 that maybe Detective Merkel hit with him?
17 A. Mostly likely, yes.
18 Q. Unknown to you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you ask the defendant whether or not he had
21 actually touched his wife while she was down on the floor?
22 A. I did.
23 Q. And what did he tell you?
24 A. He said that he may have touched her on the
25 arm.
753
1 Q. Okay. Did he go any further than saying he may
2 have touched her on the arm?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this. Did he, during
5 this long conversation, you know, this almost six hours, did
6 it ever come up when the last time that they were intimate?
7 A. Yes, it did.
8 Q. When did he say was the last time they were
9 intimate?
10 A. He stated it was Sunday.
11 Q. Did he specifically say it was Sunday evening?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Did you ask him several times what he
14 thought had happened to her? What had happened? How this
15 had happened?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And consistently, what was his response as to
18 why, I mean to what had happened?
19 A. He believed it was a suicide.
20 Q. Okay. And did he say this more than once?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did he say it several times?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And would keep coming back to it, right? He
25 believed that she committed suicide?

754
1 A. He believed she committed suicide.
2 Q. Did he admit to you, though, that he had seen a
3 knife sticking out of her neck?
4 A. He did.
5 Q. And that he had seen her wrists deeply slashed?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. Even after you asked him about that, he still
8 maintained that he believed she could have committed suicide?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Did you ask him about what he had been doing
11 earlier in the day?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. Okay. And during -- I'm talking about the
14 workday?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did he tell you where he was working that day?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What did he say?
19 A. He indicated that had he worked out of his
20 basement for Enterprise Leasing and he worked there from 7:00
21 in the morning until 5:00 in the evening.
22 Q. Did you specifically ask him what he was
23 wearing?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. What did he tell you he was wearing during the

755
1 day when he was working?
2 A. I know that he said he had, I believe he
3 thought black shorts on. The same shirt he was currently
4 wearing and slippers because he said he works in his
5 basement.
6 Q. Works in his basement and he likes to wear his
7 slippers?
8 A. Because it's cold, yes.
9 Q. Going back to this -- again, his belief that
10 she could have committed suicide here. Did you -- you knew
11 that he had told you that -- did you know he had, I mean, did
12 he tell you that he had actually talked to Betsy around 5:15,
13 5:30?
14 A. At some point in the interview, he admitted
15 that he had talked to her on the telephone sometime after 5
16 o'clock.
17 Q. Right. And that she had some good news to tell
18 him and wanted to talk to him later that night?
19 A. That's correct, sir.
20 Q. Right. But then did you ask him why she would
21 have committed, why she would -- if she committed suicide,
22 why she would have picked this time to do it?
23 A. Yes. I asked why he thought that date and that
24 time.
25 Q. What was his response?

756
1 A. He thought it was because he was going to be
2 away from the house at that time.
3 Q. All right. But then he also told you, though,
4 he knew that she wanted to tell him good news when he got
5 home?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about after he
8 left work. Did he tell you where he went and ultimately
9 where he ended up that evening?
10 A. Yes, sir, he did.
11 Q. And according to him, where did he basically
12 spend 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock?
13 A. At a friend's house in Lake St. Louis.
14 Q. Okay. Now did he give you the names of these
15 friends and everything?
16 A. Yes, he did.
17 Q. All right. Did he tell you what they were
18 doing there?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What, according to him, were they doing?
21 A. They watched the movie "Conan" and they also
22 started to watch the movie called "The Road", but he left
23 because the movie was boring.
24 Q. During this time period, did he tell you what
25 he was doing besides watching movies?

757
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What?
3 A. He indicated they also smoked some marijuana.
4 Q. Did he indicate whether he was drinking
5 anything?
6 A. He said just iced tea.
7 Q. Iced tea?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. In fact, didn't he tell you that he had
10 purchased a couple of teas?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And for that three-hour period, he was sitting
13 there, smoking a little bit of marijuana and drinking his
14 tea?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And that he left at 9:00?
17 A. Somewhere around 9:00, yes.
18 Q. Just a couple more areas here. During that
19 time period, did he also tell you that he recalled or he said
20 that he had gotten, that he didn't do anything on his phone
21 during that time period?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. From 6:00 to 9:00, he didn't text or play on
24 his phone or do anything?
25 A. He did nothing. He only received a call.

758
1 Q. He received one call. And what time did he
2 believe that was?
3 A. He believed it to be between 8:00 and 8:30.
4 Q. Okay. That he received a call?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. That he didn't answer?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. That he let it go to voicemail?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. That's what he told you?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. All right. So again from that 6:00 to 9:00
13 period, he does not have any contact with anybody other than
14 these friends, according to him?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. All right. Now did you ask him at all about
17 any possible life insurance policies that they may have had?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. And did he acknowledge to you in any way
20 whether Betsy had, that there were life insurance policies on
21 Betsy's life?
22 A. Yes, he did.
23 Q. How many did he say there were?
24 A. He said he believed there were three policies.
25 Q. Okay. And did he, in fact, claim that one of

759
1 the policies was his from work, correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. That he had, that was for her but who did he
4 say was the Beneficiary on the one that was from work?
5 A. He said he was the Beneficiary.
6 Q. Then he said there were two other insurance
7 policies, correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And they were ones that she had obtained?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Okay. And who did he say was the, according to
12 his knowledge, who was the Beneficiary of those?
13 A. He said he was also the Beneficiary for those
14 policies.
15 Q. What did he believe the total amount was that
16 he likely could get if Betsy died?
17 A. Somewhere between 300 and $400,000.
18 Q. So he put it at a minimum of around 300 to
19 $400,000 is what he believed?
20 A. Yes. I know, later on, he believed it was
21 somewhere around 350.
22 Q. He wasn't sure, but he was putting it at a
23 minimum of $300,000?
24 A. Correct, sir.
25 Q. Finally, did you ask him at one point about his

760
1 friend, Pam Hupp?
2 A. I did.
3 Q. Not his friend, but Betsy's friend, Pam Hupp?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. Did he indicate to you that he and
6 Pam -- what did he say about, one, the relationship Pam had
7 with Betsy as far as what he could see and observe?
8 A. That they were friends. Close friends.
9 Q. Close friends. Okay. Did you ask him about
10 whether Pam and he had any issues?
11 A. I asked whether they were friends and I believe
12 he considered her a friend, as well.
13 Q. Didn't have any issues with Pam, as well?
14 A. Thought she was a nice lady.
15 Q. Thought she was a nice lady?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. In fact, did you ask him about what, maybe, Pam
18 thought about his and Betsy's relationship?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What did he believe Pam would say about their
21 relationship?
22 A. He said their relationship would be good, that
23 she would think that.
24 Q. So to him, Pam was great. A good friend of
25 Betsy's and everything is fine?

761
1 A. Yes.
2 MR. HICKS: All right. Thank you.
3 MR. HICKS: I don't have any further questions.
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
7 Q. You talk about these life insurance policies.
8 As far as -- in your discussions, he was well aware that his
9 wife had been diagnosed with terminal cancer?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And had been given a certain period of time to
12 live?
14 Q. And you talked about -- you said to him that
15 you didn't think it was typical for someone to commit suicide
16 in a manner which was described, correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. And he advised he would not think so?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. So he didn't think someone would commit suicide
21 in that manner, either?
22 A. He said it wouldn't be typical.
23 Q. Right. But he said he didn't know anybody who
24 would hurt her?
762
1 Q. And he hoped she did not commit suicide?
2 A. That's correct, as well.
3 Q. But you asked him why he would think suicide,
4 had she ever contemplated suicide in the past?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And he said, as a matter of fact, she had left
7 a note once?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And she had talked about suicide once?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And attempted to do it once?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Are you sure?
14 A. I know that he said that she had talked about
15 suicide and left a note and that she had had a knife, but her
16 real intent wasn't that she actually got hurt in the process.
17 Q. It was actually for attention, but she actually
18 had a knife at one point threatening suicide?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Now you said he was in there with you for 12
21 hours and about six of those you talked to him, five or six,
22 I think you said?
23 A. Probably. Yes, sir.
24 Q. During the course of those times, you would
25 leave to attempt to verify things that he told you, correct?

763
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What would you do?
3 A. Go talk to the Commander.
4 Q. And the things he told you were, in fact,
5 verified?
6 A. Many of them. Yes.
7 Q. Were you able to view the videos that were
8 seized from those locations?
9 A. I have not, no.
10 Q. Did you ever seize any of them?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you ever receive any information that he
13 was wearing the same clothing that he was there for that
14 interview?
15 A. I don't know for sure.
16 Q. So your interview concluded at approximately
17 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. So while he was talking to you, he had been up,
20 according to him, since at least 6 o'clock on Tuesday?
21 A. 6:30, I believe.
22 Q. 6:30 on Tuesday?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So how long had he been up when you were done
25 talking to him?
764
1 A. Thirty-six hours.
2 Q. And he wasn't released your, from the Lincoln
3 County Police Department until sometime the afternoon of the
4 following day, which would be the 29th?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Regarding touching his wife, he wasn't sure,
7 but he said he may have touched her arm?
9 Q. And regarding his conversation with Betsy, he
10 told you what she told him is she had some good news she
11 wanted to talk to him about?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. But he never found out what that was?
14 MR. HICKS: Objection--
15 A. Not from Betsy.
16 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Not from Betsy.
19 BY MR. HICKS:
20 Q. That last question, he's telling you that he
21 never found out?
23 Q. You don't know if he ever found out or not, do
24 you?
25 A. I know that he didn't -- that he later found

765
1 out from us, from me.
2 Q. But what I'm saying is that you're going by
3 what he's telling you?
4 A. Whether he knew what the news was at the time
5 of the interview,--
6 Q. Right.
7 A. --that's correct, that's what he said, he
8 didn't know.
9 Q. He didn't know?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Just one area. When the defendant started
12 talking about these past suicidal thoughts that he believed
13 his wife had had in the past,--
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. --did he put any kind of time frame on it?
16 A. I believe it was when they were having
17 problems, which was like five or six years ago.
18 Q. Okay. So any kind of suicidal ideations he was
19 claiming she had, he was even putting back five years before?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Wasn't claiming that this was a recent thing
22 that she was--
23 A. Correct.
24 MR. HICKS: Nothing further.

766
3 MR. HICKS: He may, Your Honor.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Thank you. You may be released.
6 Further evidence on behalf of State?
7 MR. HICKS: Yes, there is. May we approach?
9 MS. ASKEY: The State intends to call the
10 insurance agent. Lee Lester is his name. The State is
11 providing the call notes of the State Farm insurance policy.
12 I'm not going to ask him about any Beneficiary
13 or anything like that, but I expect his testimony to be that
14 Russell called him on the evening of the 31st of January or
15 December, rather, asking for money for the insurance policy.
16 That was supposedly a holiday so he couldn't
17 get to it, and obviously, he had knowledge of the policy.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, the knowledge of the
19 policy has come in over my objection. The State is the one
20 who filed the Motion to Preclude any testimony regarding
21 those policies and the Beneficiary and it was granted.
22 Now they are saying they want to show that the
23 defendant had knowledge and tried to get the proceeds of the
24 policy. That violates the terms of their Motion, the Court's
25 Order, and it wasn't given to him.

767
1 It wasn't his policy at that time. It had
2 already been changed, and to do that is patently unfair.
3 MR. HICKS: No. We're arguing two different
4 things. Our Motion didn't go to the defendant's knowledge
5 of the insurance policies, that he thought he was the
6 Beneficiary. This is showing he's been released from custody
7 or interrogation.
8 It's December 31st, New Year's Eve. He's
9 calling the agent on New Year's Eve wondering about, can he
10 get the money.
11 I think it shows, I think it's very probative
12 of where his mind was, what he was concerned about, that he
13 was concerned about the money, which goes all of the way back
14 to what we believe is a motivation that he had to kill her.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Judge, the policy had been in
16 place, that they are saying is a motive, for ten years, and
17 she had terminal cancer. The motive for him to murder her
18 now is ludicrous.
19 MR. SWANSON: But you established already that
20 he knew about the policy. If you want to argue motive --
21 MR. HICKS: Right. But this is different. It
22 compounds this. It's not just that he knew about it, but he
23 was concerned about it. He was interested in it just a few
24 days after his wife's death. He's interested in, can I get
25 this money? I don't see how it's probative.

768
1 MR. SWANSON: What's the relevancy?
2 MR. HICKS: There's nothing relevant about it.
3 Nothing probative about it. Why don't you put it in?
4 MR. SWANSON: Because it's not relevant and
5 probative--
6 MR. HICKS: It goes directly to motive--
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: We know it doesn't go to Pam
8 Hupp's motive.
9 COURT REPORTER: You are talking at once.
10 MS. ASKEY: There's no direct evidence.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: There is evidence. That's
12 argument for the jury. I understand but to go further and
13 say now that was motive for him is -- I don't know how to
14 address that.
15 MR. HICKS: You think it's motive?
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: When a witness testifies, it's
17 clear their interest and bias come in. To say Pam Hupp gave
18 him $150,000 is not interest or bias to her, I strongly
19 disagree with. The Court has ruled, but now to say his
20 knowledge of this in making a phone call, in fact, is
21 completely irrelevant to what happened on the evening of
22 December the 27th.
23 He didn't call beforehand to say, hey, do I
24 have this policy. They are saying he called four days later.
25 The Court has already ruled.

769
1 MR. HICKS: Judge, if Pam, if there had been
2 direct evidence that Pam Hupp -- hold on a second. At least
3 hear my argument. Then you had evidence that four days
4 later, she's calling the insurance company saying, hey, can I
5 get my money, you would want to present it as motive as it
6 goes to her and I get it. That's the same thing we're doing,
7 but we have direct evidence connecting him.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: No.
9 MR. HICKS: He's making my argument.
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: Just so I'm clear. Are you
11 saying that her getting the $150,000 is not an interest or a
12 bias?
13 MR. HICKS: I'm not saying that. I'm saying
14 there's no direct evidence.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. There is and we were
16 precluded from getting into that. That's not--
17 MR. HICKS: I don't understand why you can't
18 follow this argument.
19 MR. SWANSON: You have established already that
20 he knew about it. You have got that.
21 MR. HICKS: Yes, that's the difference. Not
22 only did he know about it but I'm trying to get at, I'm here
23 four days after her death. I'm going to get the money.
24 MS. ASKEY: And he's been released.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: He's been accused.

770
1 MR. SWANSON: Did you tell him he was free to
2 go? Did you tell him he wasn't coming back?
3 MR. HICKS: I don't want to argue about all
4 that. That doesn't matter.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Judge, you do what you want.
6 It's absolutely unfair.
7 MR. HICKS: Unfair is not an argument. The
8 issue is is it probative of anything? I think it's
9 absolutely probative that just a few days after her death,
10 he's calling on New Year's Eve, the insurance guy to find out
11 if he can get money. This goes directly to his motive.
12 THE COURT: I think during the timing of it is
13 probative.
14 MR. SCHWARTZ: So if he had waited a month?
15 MR. HICKS: What if he called beforehand?
16 MS. ASKEY: If he waited a month, probably not.
17 THE COURT: That in conjunction with it being a
18 holiday is a little strange, especially like New Year's Eve.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Can we revisit the issue
20 and recall Pam Hupp and get into her interest and bias in
21 this case?
22 MS. ASKEY: Oh, god. We've revisited it three
23 times.
24 MR. HICKS: Only if the Court believes there's
25 direct evidence of her involvement in the crime.

771
1 MR. SCHWARTZ: That has nothing to do with the
2 witness's interest and bias.
3 MR. HICKS: Motive. You can't get into motive.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: You keep saying it, but it
5 doesn't make it so.
6 THE COURT: Here's what I will do. I will
7 revisit the interest and bias tonight, and I will revisit
8 that tomorrow because that is a separate issue.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: That's what I argued. At the
10 time, --
11 THE COURT: You're pointing to someone else.
12 So I will look at that. For now, I'm going to allow you to
13 proceed on the policy.
15 MS. ASKEY: The State will call Lee Lester.
16 THE COURT: Lee Lester. Sir, if you would
17 please step forward and raise your right hand to be sworn.
18 LEE LESTER,
19 a witness, having been duly sworn by the Circuit Judge to
22 of the State of Missouri, testifies as follows:
23 THE COURT: Please have a seat at the witness
24 stand.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, may we approach?

772
2 MR. SCHWARTZ: Judge, I didn't know who this
3 person was. This witness has been sitting in the Courtroom
4 watching for the entire day.
5 MS. ASKEY: I didn't know who he was either.
6 MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, that doesn't change the
7 fact that he's now a witness and sitting in the Courtroom.
8 Based upon that, I would ask that he be excluded.
9 MS. ASKEY: I didn't see him sitting in here
10 myself.
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: He was.
12 THE COURT: And the only things you are
13 specifically going to ask him have nothing to do with
14 anything that's been brought up today.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: The fact is he's a witness who
16 was sitting in here.
17 THE COURT: It doesn't matter.
18 MR. SWANSON: We did ask yesterday that all
19 witnesses be excluded.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: I specifically said family could
21 stay in here.
22 MR. HICKS: We understand that and that he
23 shouldn't be in here. I think the issue is if there has been
24 something testified in here today that somehow could impact
25 his testimony, I think the Court would have the discretion to

773
1 say, I can't let him testify because --
2 THE COURT: I agree with that. I mean the fact
3 is that what they have said so far has nothing. Either he
4 made the call or he didn't. No one else would know that but
5 him and that hasn't been discussed so.
8 BY MS. ASKEY:
9 Q. Mr. Lester, please state your name for the
10 record?
11 A. Lee Lester.
12 Q. And where are you employed, sir?
13 A. I'm a State Farm agent in Lake St. Louis.
14 Q. And how long have you been a State Farm agent
15 there?
16 A. Six years.
17 Q. Did you insure Elizabeth Faria?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And do you know approximately when you had her
20 insured?
21 A. I do not. The policy was written before I was
22 an agent, I believe, and it was transferred to my office.
23 Q. So she was insured with your company --
24 A. Right.
25 Q. -- when she passed away?

774
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you were the agent?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you ever have any conversations with her
5 husband, Russell Faria?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And when was that, sir?
8 A. New Year's Day.
9 Q. New Year's Day?
10 A. Uh-huh.
11 Q. And do you remember approximately what time?
12 A. I believe around 2:00 or 3:00.
13 Q. And do you remember what that conversation
14 entailed?
15 A. He called my office which went to my voicemail,
16 and I called him back; and I had heard about the case before,
17 but he wanted to get the money, he said, for her funeral.
18 Q. And --
19 A. I told him--
20 Q. And did you respond to him?
21 A. Yes. I said there was going to be an
22 investigation before that can happen.
23 Q. And what did Mr. -- how did Mr. Faria respond?
24 A. It's been two years ago, but he was kind of
25 like maybe surprised by that. He was like, really? An

775
1 investigation? I was like, yeah. Any kind of case like this
2 gets pushed up to our special unit.
3 Q. Did he tell you how she had passed away?
4 A. No.
5 Q. He just indicated to you that she had passed
6 away?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. So he didn't tell you she was murdered?
9 A. No.
10 Q. At some point, sir, did you have interaction
11 with Mr. Faria wherein you had to call police to your office?
12 MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection, Your Honor. This
13 goes beyond the scope.
15 MS. ASKEY: Goes beyond the scope of what?
17 MR. SCHWARTZ: It was identified as his sister.
18 MS. ASKEY: Oh, okay. I'll withdraw.
19 MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. That's fine then. Fine.
20 MS. ASKEY: Nothing further from this witness.
24 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
25 Q. Do you keep notes when you contact or are

776
1 contacted by somebody, correct?
2 A. Sometimes.
3 Q. That goes into the policy into their file,
4 right?
5 A. Sometimes.
6 Q. In this particular case, you said on or around
7 the end of December, December 31st, January 1st, you were
8 contacted by Russell Faria?
9 A. 31st.
10 Q. And your recollection is he needed money. Did
11 he discuss that the funeral home had suggested to contact you
12 to get money for funeral expenses?
13 A. That's correct, I believe.
14 Q. That's correct. And this policy that you are
15 aware of that you are testifying about had been in place
16 since August 30th of 2001 --
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. -- with him as a Beneficiary, correct?
19 A. I think that's correct.
22 MS. ASKEY: Nothing further, Judge.
23 THE COURT: May this witness be released?
25 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You are released.

777
1 You are free to go.
2 Further evidence on behalf of the State?
3 MS. ASKEY: The State would call Captain Mike
4 Lang.
5 THE COURT: Mike Lang.
6 MICHAEL LANG,
7 a witness, having been duly sworn by the Circuit Judge to
11 THE COURT: Thank you. Please have a seat at
12 the witness stand.
13 State may proceed when it's ready.
15 BY MS. ASKEY:
16 Q. Captain Lang, would you please introduce
17 yourself to the jury?
18 A. My name is Michael Lang. I'm Captain with the
19 Lincoln County Sheriff's Office.
20 Q. And what are your duties with the Sheriff's
21 Office?
22 A. While I was at the Sheriff's Office, I was in
23 charge of the Criminal Investigation Division.
24 Q. And when you say when you were there, where are
25 you currently employed?

778
1 A. I'm still employed by the Sheriff's Department
2 but I'm currently detached to the St. Louis DEA Field
3 Division.
4 Q. What does that mean, "detached"?
5 A. I work there as a Task Force Officer.
6 Q. How long have you been working for the DEA?
7 A. Nearly two years now.
8 Q. And so, roughly, January of '12?
9 A. Yes. Late January.
10 Q. Prior to that, you supervised the Detective
11 Bureau; is that right?
12 A. Yes, that's correct.
13 Q. And that was at the Sheriff's Office?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Were you also a member the Major Case Squad?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What were your specific duties with the Major
18 Case Squad?
19 A. I was an Investigator for the Major Case Squad
20 and what they call a "TOG", a Technical Operations Group
21 member.
22 Q. And what does a TOG do?
23 A. The TOG Officers are responsible for taking
24 cellular telephones and analyzing the data that may be within
25 them.
779
1 Q. As a TOG, would you be the one responsible of
2 actually completing all these tasks or just more or less
3 overseeing them?
4 A. Sometimes it could include both.
5 Q. Are you familiar with -- strike that.
6 Were you employed in that capacity and with the
7 Major Case Squad in December of 2011?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And were you assigned to the case wherein Betsy
10 Faria was the victim?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And do you, did you respond then to the Major
13 Case call after that?
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 Q. Are you familiar with a -- I'm going to call it
16 the wrong thing but software called a Cellebright?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What is that?
19 A. The Cellebright is a -- technically, it's a
20 small computer. It's called an UFED, the Universal Forensic
21 Extraction Device. I believe that's what that stands for.
22 Essentially, it's a small computer that I can
23 take a cellular telephone and connect it to and, if
24 everything works correctly, it will peek inside that phone
25 and extract all of the information out of it.

780
1 That could be the call logs, that could be text
2 messages, it could be pictures, it could be videos. It just
3 depends on what's in the actual phone and what the device is
4 actually capable of talking to the phone and getting out of
5 it.
6 Q. And in fairness, can the Cellebright look
7 inside of every phone?
8 A. No, unfortunately. It won't communicate with
9 some phones. I'm guessing for software reasons. I don't
10 understand.
11 Q. And would it be possible for it to communicate
12 for some things out of the phone but maybe not all things?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And would it indicate that it couldn't
15 communicate, I suppose is my question, if it weren't able to
16 retrieve those other items?
17 A. Yes. Yes.
18 Q. And how would it indicate that?
19 A. Whenever the phone is connected to the device,
20 I will look at the screen on this computer and tell it, here
21 are the things I'm looking for and I will select call logs,
22 pictures, text messages, audio recordings. Things of that
23 nature.
24 When the device communicates with the phone, it
25 will then generate a report for me. On that report, it will

781
1 show me what things were selected, which I ask the machine to
2 do and it will tell me if it was able to do it or not.
3 MS. ASKEY: May I approach, Judge?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Captain Lang, I want to show
6 you one of the many binders prepared by the Major Case Squad.
7 Do you recognize this report?
8 A. Yes, I do.
9 Q. And what type of report is that?
10 A. This is one of the reports that comes from the
11 Cellebright.
12 Q. Okay. And can you tell by the phone number on
13 this report whose phone this report, the Cellebright
14 generated this report for?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And whose phone was it?
17 A. Russ Faria's.
18 Q. And the report under Russ's phone specifically
19 gives you all kinds of information; is that right? Contacts,
20 text messages, etcetera?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. At the beginning of the report, it
23 indicates some of the, I guess for lack of a better term, hot
24 buttons, so you can call to get your minutes and call to get
25 voicemail and those sorts of things?

782
1 A. It's the contact list. Those are the first
2 entries on the contact list, yes.
3 Q. And it indicates numbers all of the way back to
4 those that are also saved; is that right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Now I have prepared State's Exhibit 36.
7 (State's Exhibit Number 36 marked for
8 identification.)
9 Q. (By Ms. Askey) State's Exhibit 36, which is an
10 excerpt of the 27th of December, 2011, and I want to -- from
11 Russ Faria's phone.
12 I want to draw your attention first to the
13 difference in time based on what's on the State's Exhibit.
14 And can you explain to the jury the difference in time?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And?
17 A. Okay. The difference in time, whenever I get
18 an examination report from the Cellebright, it gives me a
19 time and date stamp. The time and date stamp is actually the
20 Greenwich Mean Time, so it is, what, hours ahead of what our
21 Standard Time is here.
22 Q. So in order to extrapolate State's Exhibit 36,
23 we had to back those times up six hours?
25 Q. Did you have an opportunity to review State's

783
1 Exhibit 36 compared to the date in question from the
2 Cellebright analysis of Russ Faria's phone?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And does Exhibit 36 fairly and accurately
5 represent that analysis that came from the Cellebright
6 analysis?
7 A. Yes, it does.
8 MS. ASKEY: I'd ask permission to admit State's
9 Exhibit 36.
10 THE COURT: Any objection to State's 36?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: No objection. Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: State's Exhibit 36 is admitted into
13 evidence.
14 (State's Exhibit Number 35 marked for
15 identification.)
16 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Captain Lang, before I get rid
17 of that giant binder, back to the contact section?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Is there a specific phone number that indicates
20 what number to call for voicemail?
21 A. Yes, there is.
23 A. It is marked as "1-805-637-7243".
24 Q. Thank you. But it has memory numbers, right?
25 A. Yes.
784
1 Q. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to show you
2 State's Exhibit 35?
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Do you recognize those documents?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And what are they?
7 A. These are the results from a Court Order that
8 was served to T-Mobile.
9 Q. And the phone number that you indicated out of
10 that binder earlier, was that phone number the number that we
11 requested to T-Mobile?
12 A. I don't believe it is the same.
13 Q. The 565-9207?
14 A. Yes, that is. Okay.
15 Q. And was that Russ Faria's phone number?
16 A. Yes, it is. According to T-Mobile.
17 Q. I'm going to draw your attention to the second
18 page, then, really into the third page of that document. And
19 if you scroll down the page a bit. There on the 27th, after
20 6 o'clock, rather, after 5:22, which would be 1722?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. There is a phone call for 13 minutes; is that
23 right?
24 A. Yes, that's correct.
25 Q. And beyond that, on the 27th, is there any

785
1 other phone call usage, like anything other than data, coming
2 into that phone?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And at what point do you see -- now and I want
5 to back up. Behind this document, this is only to represent
6 incoming and outgoing calls; is that right?
7 A. And texts.
8 Q. And what about missed calls?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So what the record is showing is that there was
11 no activity on the phone for a period of at least three
12 hours; is that fair to say?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And then if you go to the back, and I think
15 it's numbered because there's a deeper analysis. It looks
16 like 19.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. And if you look down to an incoming phone call
19 at 8:57 p.m. on December 27th, so three minutes ahead of 9
20 o'clock, do you see an incoming phone call?
21 A. I do.
22 Q. And it says it's a voice call, correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And what is that phone number? Is that the
25 265-2643?
786
1 A. Four-three, yes.
2 Q. That's area code 636?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. At some point, the Major Case disbanded in this
5 investigation; is that fair?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. And did you continue working on the case
8 because you work at the Sheriff's Office?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Based on that, did you have any interaction
11 thereafter with Russ Faria?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what interaction did you have with him?
14 A. I was present when the arrest was effected on
15 him.
16 Q. So you went down to effectuate the arrest?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did you go inside the home?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. Do you remember where that was?
21 A. The home?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. It was in Lake St. Louis, I believe.
24 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what's been
25 Marked as State's Exhibit 28. Do you recognize this

787
1 envelope?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And does that envelope contain evidence that
4 was seized at the time of Mr. Faria's arrest?
5 A. It appears to, yes.
6 Q. I'm going to open it up. Do you recognize
7 those documents?
8 A. Yes, I do.
9 Q. And what are those documents?
10 A. These are notes that were beside Mr. Faria when
11 we encountered him in the home to arrest him.
12 Q. And what do those notes indicate?
13 A. One has a phone number and it says (as read),
14 "Sergeant Ryan", one has the name "Ryan Lance" and a phone
15 number and then one says "Mike" and a phone number and then
16 "Elizabeth policy" and a number and then "Russell S. Faria",
17 "Mary Rodgers" and "Deb Schomsky" and "150,000".
18 Q. And do you know what that was in reference to?
19 A. For certain, I don't know. It appears to be a
20 insurance policy.
21 Q. Thank you. When you say this was next to the
22 defendant when you arrested him, where was it?
23 A. It was sitting at the desk where he was seated
24 at the time we encountered him.
25 Q. Thank you.
788
1 MS. ASKEY: I'd ask for State's Exhibit 28 to
2 be admitted.
3 THE COURT: Any objection to State's 28?
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Pursuant to my earlier
5 objection, under those.
6 MS. ASKEY: I'd also ask that State's 35 be
7 admitted.
8 THE COURT: I'm not clear what you are
9 referring to as to earlier. You need to approach on 28?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: I would object to this coming in
12 based upon my earlier objection regarding any issues of the
13 life insurance company.
14 THE COURT: Twenty-eight is admitted.
16 MS. ASKEY: State would ask for admittance of
17 Exhibit 25 at this time.
18 THE COURT: Which is what?
19 MS. ASKEY: Which is part of the phone records
20 from T-Mobile. Okay. Let me get the binder.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: I'll stipulate.
22 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Okay, Captain. We also did a
23 Cellebright analysis of Betsy Faria's phone; is that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And that number that I previously read to you

789
1 -- sorry.
2 A. That's all right.
3 Q. The number I previously read to you, which was
4 the -- the number that the defendant received the phone call
5 from at 8:57, this (636) 265-2643 is actually Betsy's
6 mother's number; is that correct?
7 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, I ask if he doesn't
8 know, we'll stipulate.
9 MS. ASKEY: You'll stipulate that that's her
10 Mom?
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes.
12 MS. ASKEY: Okay.
13 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Then I'm not going to make you
14 look for it?
15 A. Fair enough.
16 Q. Detective, based on that, is there anything in
17 these records that we've submitted that actually indicate
18 that the defendant has listened to the voicemail that was
19 left by Janet Meyer, Betsy's mother?
20 A. Yes.
22 A. A call to the number that was listed as
23 voicemail.
24 Q. And how long after the phone call that Janet
25 Meyer left in that voicemail did he call to check his

790
1 voicemail?
2 A. About 30 seconds later.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MS. ASKEY: I don't have anything further for
5 this witness.
6 THE COURT: Mr. Schwartz? Mr. Swanson?
7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. SWANSON:
9 Q. Captain Lang, with regard to the note that you
10 said was seized when you effected the arrest of Mr. Faria?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. That was at his mother's house, correct?
13 A. I believe it was. A family member. I'm not
14 certain.
15 Q. You said it was on a desk near him when you
16 found him?
17 A. It was at the desk where he was seated when he
18 saw him, yes.
19 Q. An the note of Mary Rodgers, that was Betsy's
20 sister, her name on it?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Had his name on it and it had a third name. Do
23 you remember who that was?
24 A. No. If you would let me look at the note, I'll
25 be sure to tell you. One of them said, "Sergeant Ryan". I

791
1 know that.
2 Q. There was a police officer's name on that?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. You don't know who wrote that note?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Did you have information at the time that Mr.
7 Faria had been advised by the funeral home to contact the
8 life insurance company to request money for her, Betsy
9 Faria's funeral?
10 A. No.
11 Q. You didn't know that?
12 A. No, sir.
13 Q. All right. Turning to the Cellebright
14 analysis, it indicated that Russell Faria missed a phone call
15 from Janet Meyers' land line at 8:57; is that correct?
16 A. Is Janet the --
17 Q. Janet is the mother.
18 A. Yes. It was from a phone number from her. I'm
19 not sure if it was from the land line or not.
20 Q. (636) 265-2643.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now do you still have State's Exhibit 35 in
23 front of you?
24 A. No, sir.
25 MR. SWANSON: May I approach, Your Honor?

792
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 MR. SWANSON: Thank you.
3 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) If you look at the second and
4 third page. Those are the ones that Ms. Askey referred to
5 when she was asking you about a three-hour gap where there's
6 no activity on the phone, correct?
7 A. She asked me about a three-hour gap without a
8 phone call, yes.
9 Q. And can you show me on that where this missed
10 call from the 636 number we were just talking about, where
11 that came through?
12 A. Let me look. It's not listed on here, sir.
13 Q. But we know the phone was active during that
14 period? Russell Faria's phone got a call, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. It's just not listed on this?
18 Q. Can you explain that discrepancy?
19 A. No, sir. I can't.
20 Q. Now correct me if I'm wrong. Ms. Askey asked
21 you to look at these two pages, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And she said there was a three-hour gap where
24 there was no activity on the phone, right?
25 A. She said no phone calls, yes.

793
1 Q. No phone calls. My mistake. Could you turn to
2 Page, let's see, 17 of the, I guess it's the second section?
3 A. Yes, sir.
4 Q. Do you have it in front of you?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. I apologize in advance for being super tedious.
7 Bear with me.
8 A. That's fine.
9 Q. There's an outgoing data connection at 4:35
10 p.m.; correct?
11 A. Yes, sir.
13 p.m.?
14 A. Yes, sir.
16 p.m.?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. At 5:10 p.m., that's an outgoing voice call?
19 A. That is a voice call, yes.
20 Q. Incoming voice call at 5:10, 30 seconds later?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Outgoing voice call at 5:11?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Incoming at 5:11?
25 A. Yes, sir.
794
1 Q. Outgoing data at 5:13?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q. Incoming at 5:22. I'm sorry --
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Outgoing voice call at 5:22?
6 A. Yes, sir.
8 A. Yes, sir.
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Incoming text messages at 6:58?
12 A. Yes, sir.
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Outgoing data at 7:35, again? That's on Page
16 19.
17 A. Yes, sir.
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Incoming data or incoming voice at 8:57?
21 A. Incoming voice call at 8:57.
22 Q. Outgoing voice call 8:57:50?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Now you indicate that was a call to the
25 voicemail, correct?
795
1 A. The outgoing phone call at 8:57?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. That is an outgoing phone call listed to the
4 number that, in the contact list, shows up as his voicemail,
5 yes.
6 Q. Right above that, there's and 8:57 and 27
7 seconds incoming call?
9 Q. If you look at the next page, it says that call
10 lasted 69 seconds, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And we know that's a missed call from Mrs.
13 Faria, I'm sorry, from Ms. Meyer?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And then at 8:57:50, so 23 seconds later,
16 there's the outgoing call to the voicemail number?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. That couldn't be a call to get the voicemail
19 because the call in hadn't completed yet?
20 A. It could be a call to the voicemail, it just
21 wouldn't be able to retrieve the voicemail yet.
22 Q. So there's no evidence that Russell Faria ever
23 listened to the phone call from Janet Meyer?
24 A. No.
25 Q. The reason I went through that whole tedious

796
1 thing --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. I apologize is -- was there ever a gap of more
4 than approximately, of less than one hour from Russell
5 Faria's phone?
6 A. At which point? I mean, --
7 Q. At any point from 4:00 p.m. onward?
8 A. It looks like the longest was from -- or are
9 you speaking specifically about voice calls or data?
10 Q. I'm talking about gaps in the phone's activity?
11 A. The phone shows the last activity was outgoing
12 data at 10:23 p.m.
13 Q. Right. I'm sorry. Let me rephrase that. From
14 4:57 p.m. to, let's say, 9:40. It's the last item on Page
15 19?
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. Is there ever a period of longer than one hour
18 and seven minutes where Russell Faria's phone is not turned
19 on and connecting to the T-Mobile network doing something?
20 A. No, sir.
21 Q. So it's on the whole time, except for you could
22 say an hour and seven minutes?
23 A. I can't speculate to whether it was on or off.
24 I can say you are correct in your assertion that there's no
25 longer than an hour and seven.

797
1 Q. So it's active almost that whole time?
2 A. Presumably.
3 Q. All right. And then State's Exhibit 36.
4 MR. SWANSON: May I approach, Your Honor?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 A. I don't have it, other than 35. That's all I
7 have.
8 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) This is State's Exhibit 36?
9 A. Thank you.
10 Q. These are the text messages from Russell
11 Faria's cell phone on December 27th.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. And they are corrected times, is my
14 recollection?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. At 10:33, Betsy Faria texted Russell (as read),
17 "You were supposed to get dog food tonight", correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And she texted him, "You got game tonight"?
21 Q. At 10:41. He said, he responded to Betsy
22 Faria's number at 10:41 a.m., "Yeah. I will get it when I
23 come in".
25 Q. 10:41 a.m. And at 10:43 a.m., he texted both

798
1 Ann Corbin and Mike Corbin (as read), "I know no game
2 tonight. Is it still cool to come over? Maybe play
3 Talisman"?
5 Q. Did you have information that Talisman is
6 another board game they play?
7 A. I did not.
8 Q. And Ann Corbin texted Russell back, "Yes"?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 Q. He texted back to Ann Corbin, "Sweet. See you
11 then"?
13 Q. He got a text message from someone named
14 Brandon?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Inviting him to a Year End party?
18 Q. He texted back to Brandon, "Got a gig. Sorry.
19 Going to Mike's tonight if you guys want to come over and
20 maybe play Talisman".
21 Then Brandon responds, "Yeah. I was thinking
22 about it. Will most likely come down"?
24 Q. And Russell responds to Brandon's number,
25 "Cool"?
799
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And then he texts Betsy Faria, "Yeah. Going to
3 game and then come get you. Will call when on way. Should
4 not be too late"?
6 Q. This is all up to about 12:15 p.m. At 12:13
7 p.m., Betsy texts him, "Okay great, honey"?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And then they have a conversation about Mo?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that's about she's having trouble at work,
12 correct?
13 A. I'm not sure what that's in reference to.
14 Q. That her work is giving her trouble so I'm
15 heading up there. That's Betsy Faria?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. At 3:46, Betsy Faria texts Russ, "I got TP and
18 Pam Hupp wants to bring me home to bed"?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. "I need rest. WBC --", which were you aware
21 that was white blood count?
22 A. I presumed, but I wasn't for sure.
23 Q. -- "is low but got infusion anyway"?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. And then he texted Betsy Faria, "So you coming

800
1 home here"?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. She says, "Yes. Troy"?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. He asks Betsy, he sends "SHR" which appears to
6 be a typo?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. He texts Betsy Faria, "She is bringing you"?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And Betsy Faria texted back, "Yes, she offered
11 and I accepted. Didn't get much sleep. Mom snored"?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. He texted Betsy Faria, "Okay. See you then"?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. At 3:57, he receives a text message that says,
16 Betsy is saying, "Okay. Great"?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Is there anything odd about that conversation
19 to you?
20 MS. ASKEY: Objection. Calls for speculation.
21 THE COURT: Sustained. You can rephrase.
22 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) Are there any gaps in that
23 conversation?
24 A. What do you mean by gaps?
25 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object again. It

801
1 calls for speculation.
2 THE COURT: Sustained. You can ask something
3 more specific so he knows what you mean.
4 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) Betsy Faria asked Russell
5 Faria a question?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Then he texts friends to confirm plans?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And then he texts Betsy Faria and asks her a
10 question?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So it's a fairly linear conversation?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. That's what I mean when I said are there any
15 gaps? Are there any questions that are unanswered?
16 A. There don't appear to be, no.
17 MS. ASKEY: Object.
18 THE COURT: Overruled.
19 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) Are there any statements that
20 don't appear to be connected to other parts of the
21 conversation?
22 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object. Calls for
23 speculation. You're taking one side with one phone.
24 THE COURT: Mr. Swanson?
25 MR. SWANSON: He's testified these are all the

802
1 text messages sent and received from this phone. So it's not
2 one side from one phone. It's all the conversation that
3 phone was engaged in.
4 MS. ASKEY: He's misstating his testimony.
5 He's testifying that those are all the text messages that
6 were retrieved via the Cellebright on Russ Faria's phone, not
7 all that were sent and received because we don't know what
8 were deleted and what weren't.
9 MR. SWANSON: I can ask a followup question to
10 clarify that.
11 THE COURT: That will be sustained at this
12 time. You can follow up.
13 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) Would the Cellebright find
14 deleted text messages?
15 A. No.
16 Q. No?
17 A. No.
18 Q. So you can delete something and no one would
19 ever find it through Cellebright? The Cellebright's forensic
20 analysis of the phone doesn't find deleted text messages?
21 A. No, it does not.
22 Q. But there don't appear to be any deleted here?
23 MS. ASKEY: I object because it calls for
24 speculation. How would you know that?

803
1 Q. (By Mr. Swanson) Betsy offered to take Russ or
2 Russ offered to bring Betsy home. That's correct from those
3 text messages? He told her he would come get her?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. She told him he didn't need to, that Pam Hupp
6 had offered. She accepted and Pam Hupp would be bringing her
7 home?
9 Q. And he said, okay. Great. See you then?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. SWANSON: Nothing further.
13 MS. ASKEY: Briefly.
15 BY MS. ASKEY:
16 Q. Captain Lang, when you direct your attention to
17 all of the pages at the back of Exhibit 35, you still have
18 that in front of you?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. And Mr. Swanson is asking you about this data.
21 Can you explain to the jury -- strike that.
22 If my phone has been sitting there for the last
23 however many days and I've not been on it, would it still
24 send and receive data?
25 A. Yes.
804
1 Q. So regardless of if I'm using it, it's still,
2 as long as it's on, it's receiving and sending?
4 Q. So the fact that his phone is sending and
5 receiving data is really insignificant?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. If you direct your attention -- and sadly, we
8 only have records from Russ Faria's phone from December 26th
9 through, I believe, the 28th or 9th. Maybe the 26th through
10 the 28th. So two days.
11 Absent data, are there any places, and absent
12 the midnight hours, obviously sleeping time, but during the
13 daytime hours of 8:00 to 10:00 p.m., are there any other
14 instances in that three-day span, including the time which he
15 was next door talking with Detectives, that there's a
16 three-hour gap where he's either receiving phone calls, text
17 messages, pictures and/or sending them?
18 A. Excluding the normal sleeping hours, there does
19 not appear to be.
20 Q. So only time that all he's receiving, or all
21 his phone is receiving is data, is during the time that he
22 says he has an alibi?
25 THE COURT: Mr. Swanson or Mr. Schwartz?

805
2 BY MR. SWANSON:
3 Q. This is a two-day span, correct? This is the
4 26th through the 28th?
5 A. The information that's been provided to me
6 here, yes.
7 Q. Now you said besides sleeping time, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. From 10:23 p.m. on December 27th until 8:00
10 a.m. on the 28th, there are three data connections and two
11 SMS connections; is that correct?
12 A. I'm sorry, sir. I'm still trying to get to the
13 27th. What time frame?
14 Q. Page 21.
15 A. All right.
16 Q. 10:23 p.m.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. To two -- I'm sorry. Till -- let's -- until
19 8:00 a.m. on the 28th?
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. There are two SMS and three data; is that
22 correct?
23 A. Two incoming text messages, three data
24 exchanges, yes.
25 Q. And admittedly, that's sleeping time for most

806
1 people?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Except for on that night, Russell Faria was
4 awake and with law enforcement the entire time? In fact, he
5 had his phone with him. Were you aware of that?
6 A. I don't recall, to be honest with you.
7 Q. Would you have any issue with other Officers
8 having been in here and testifying that Russell Faria was up
9 for that entire period in Lincoln County jail?
10 A. No.
11 Q. But there's a gap where the phone is not being
12 used at all there. So it wasn't accurate when she said there
13 wasn't any problems except during sleeping time.
14 MR. HICKS: Objection. What are you getting
15 at?
16 MR. SWANSON: Withdraw. Nothing further.
20 MR. SWANSON: I'm sorry.
21 FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. SWANSON:
23 Q. You don't have the previous Tuesday? The 22nd
24 or 21st?
25 A. Not sitting here. No, sir. I don't.

807
1 Q. You don't know what that would have looked
2 like?
3 A. No, I don't.
4 Q. Or the Tuesday before that?
5 A. No, I don't.
6 Q. You don't know if there would have been a
7 similar period of time?
8 A. No, I don't.
9 MR. SWANSON: Okay.
14 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You are free to
15 go.
16 MR. HICKS: We have one more.
17 (Off the record discussion at the bench.)
18 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we are going
19 to adjourn for the evening.
20 The Court again reminds you of what you were
21 told at the first recess of the Court. Until you retire to
22 consider your verdict, you must not discuss this case among
23 yourselves or with others or permit anyone to discuss it in
24 your hearing.
25 You should not form or express any opinion

808
1 about the case until it is finally given to you to decide.
2 Do not do any research or investigation on your own about any
3 matter regarding this case or anyone involved with the trial.
4 Do not communicate with others about the case by any means.
5 Do not read, view or listen to any newspaper,
6 radio, electronic communication from the Internet or
7 television report of the trial.
8 And just kind of as a housekeeping, do you have
9 just an expectation of how many days?
10 MR. SCHWARTZ: We believe that we should be
11 able to get all of our evidence on tomorrow.
12 THE COURT: Okay. So just for the jury to
13 know. There is a possibility that we may be able to conclude
14 tomorrow.
15 If that were to happen, that would obviously
16 depend on how long you would deliberate, I would assume,
17 because it would probably take a good chunk of the day.
18 I'm just kind of giving them an idea. We could
19 possibly conclude tomorrow or Thursday.
20 MS. ASKEY: Thursday.
21 MR. SWANSON: Your Honor, I think Mr. Schwartz
22 meant we would be finished with our evidence tomorrow. Not
23 so much we would be arguing.
24 MR. SCHWARTZ: It's possible to argue tomorrow.
25 I would think it's not likely Thursday morning.

809
1 THE COURT: At this point, we believe we would
2 not be into Friday and, of course, anything could happen.
4 THE COURT: We're just guessing, but we're
5 trying to, in fairness to you, give you an idea of where we
6 think things stand at this point.
7 So with that, if you could please return at
8 8:15. We're going to try to get started as soon as we can
9 tomorrow to finish up with the State and we'll go from there.
10 Thank you.
11 (The jury left the Courtroom.)
12 THE COURT: Court is in recess.
13 (Court adjourned at 5:55 p.m.)
14
15 ***
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
810
1 (The following proceedings were taken on
2 November 20, 2013, Day 4 of the Jury Trial, in the case of
3 State of Missouri versus Russell S. Faria, in Lincoln County,
4 State of Missouri, with Judge Chris Kunza Mennemeyer.)
5 THE COURT: Are we ready to bring the jury
6 in?
9 I'll call through the jurors numbers for the record.
10 For the record, we are back on the record in
11 Cause No. 12L6-CR001312, State of Missouri versus Russell
12 Scott Faria.
13 Juror Number 2, 3, 4, 11, 12, 15, 27, 29, 35,
14 38, 39, 44, 51, 58 and 61. For the record, all jurors are
15 present.
16 It's my recollection that as of yesterday, the
17 State concluded it's evidence, is that correct, at this time?
18 Are we ready to proceed or did you have one more witness?
19 MS. ASKEY: At least one.
20 THE COURT: State may proceed, then.
21 MS. ASKEY: The State would call Daniel
22 Fahnestock.
23 THE COURT: Daniel Fahnestock. Sir, if you
24 would please step forward and raise your right hand for the
25 Clerk to be sworn.
811
1 DANIEL J. FAHNESTOCK,
6 THE COURT: You may proceed when you are
7 ready.
8 MS. ASKEY: Thank you.
10 BY MS. ASKEY:
11 Q. Please state your name for the jury.
12 A. My name is Daniel Fahnestock.
13 Q. And where are you employed, sir?
14 A. I'm with the St. Charles County Sheriff's
15 Department Crime Lab.
16 Q. And what do you do there?
17 A. My position is DNA Technical Leader. I perform
18 biological analysis and DNA analysis.
19 Q. What kind of training do you have to be able to
20 do that job?
21 A. My educational background is in biology as well
22 as I have a Master's Degree in Forensic Science. I underwent
23 formal training at my previous employment in Wichita, Kansas,
24 as well as I do continuing education as well as proficiency
25 testing twice a year.

812
1 Q. And in the laboratory, what typically does a
2 day look like for you?
3 A. Well, it varies, but my primary duties are to
4 screen evidence for biological material, identify what that
5 material may be and perform DNA analysis to determine who may
6 have contributed that material.
7 Q. And when we talk about who may have
8 contributed, tell the jury a little bit about how that works
9 in narrowing the scope for DNA purposes.
10 A. As far as DNA analysis goes, the basic process
11 is we're going to extract any DNA from any cells that may be
12 present.
13 We clean it up, purify it, quantitate it so we
14 know how much human DNA is present and then we perform a
15 process called "PCR".
16 "PCR" stands for Preliminary Chain Reaction and
17 that's really just an overcomplicated way of saying that
18 we're making copies of very specific regions of the DNA
19 molecule that we're interested in.
20 We're interested in those regions because they
21 exhibit differences among most people. Most of us, we have a
22 pretty good understanding that there are differences encoded
23 in your DNA, and so that's really what we're interested in
24 because by doing so, we can individualize or attempt to
25 individualize people and determine that they exhibit genetic

813
1 material that is unique to them.
2 Q. Okay. And I guess once you receive a sample,
3 how do you compare it? Is there a system that you put it in
4 or what is it compared to?
5 A. Well, there's not very much I can tell you from
6 your DNA profile simply by examining it. I can tell males
7 from females, but as far as hair color, eye color all of
8 those types of traits, that's not what we're testing for. So
9 for that to be useful for identification purposes, we have to
10 do a comparison.
11 So what we're going to do is we're going to
12 generate or develop DNA profiles from crime scene samples.
13 We're going to generate DNA samples for known individuals and
14 then we do a comparison to determine could that person have
15 contributed to that material or not.
16 Q. And when you say "known individuals", who
17 specifically are you talking about?
18 A. It could be people who are suspected of crimes.
19 It could be victims of crimes. It could be elimination
20 samples.
21 In other words, it might be individuals that
22 have nothing to do with that event but we have an expectation
23 their DNA may be present. So oftentimes, people living in
24 the same home, for example.
25 Q. Okay. As far as fingerprints go, you don't do

814
1 an analysis of that; is that fair to say?
3 Q. So you are strictly focusing on the DNA itself?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Were you employed in that capacity in December
6 of 2011?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And have you had the opportunity to do the
9 analysis of specific forensic items that were sent to you
10 from 130 Sumac in Troy, Missouri?
11 A. Yes, I was.
12 Q. Specifically, I'm assuming you have your report
13 in front of you?
14 A. I do.
15 Q. Okay. I'm going to draw your attention to Item
16 Q1 and Q2, which are the slippers that were seized and they
17 are State's Exhibits 27. Do you have that in front of you?
18 A. I do.
19 Q. And I'm going to ask you just to look inside
20 Exhibit 27. We don't have to actually get them out. Do you
21 recognize those to be the slippers that you analyzed?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. What portions of the slippers did you test?
24 A. I believe the slippers that I examined were
25 heavily stained with what was apparent to be blood.

815
1 Q. Okay.
2 A. So we were interested in a couple different
3 things with respect to those. "A", is that blood? Is it
4 human, consistent with human blood? And whose blood might it
5 have been? In addition to that, I'm also interested in who
6 might have worn those slippers.
7 So I took several samples, both of the staining
8 that was present and of the interior of the slippers, and so
9 then those samples were analyzed separately.
10 Q. And what were your findings of the analysis,
11 first, of what appeared to be blood on the outside and of the
12 bottom of the slippers?
13 A. Yes. I tested positive in the presumptive test
14 for blood as well as a portion of those stains also tested
15 positive in a test for human blood.
16 So it was consistent with human blood, and the
17 DNA profiling was obtained from that.
18 Q. What were your findings you obtained the DNA
19 profile?
20 A. Well, on the right slipper, a swabbing of the
21 stains, a DNA profile was developed and that profile was
22 consistent with the DNA of Elizabeth Faria.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. Therefore, we could not exclude her as the
25 source of that material.

816
1 Q. When you say couldn't "exclude her", explain to
2 the jury what that means.
3 A. Yes, whenever we do a comparison, there are
4 three possible conclusions that we can reach. Either it's
5 consistent with that individual, we would say we can't
6 exclude them as being the source of that material.
7 The other two would be excluded, meaning that
8 they did not contribute that material and then there's
9 inconclusive. Sometimes we don't have enough information or
10 the quality of the information present is not such that we
11 can draw a conclusion as to who may have contributed that or
12 not.
13 Q. Meaning you don't have enough information
14 present. The sample just wasn't good enough in some cases;
15 is that correct?
16 A. In some cases, that's correct.
17 Q. Then you would say inconclusive or we didn't
18 have enough information present?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. So I'm going to draw your attention to your
21 analysis of item Q1-A1 of your report?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And at the bottom of that analysis, which I
24 think for me at least helps clear up kind of what that meant,
25 that when you are saying that it was consistent and Elizabeth
817
1 Faria couldn't be excluded from that blood sample, can you
2 tell the jury what the, I guess, the chances that it would be
3 someone else?
4 A. Yes. And it's typical when we draw a
5 conclusion that someone can't be excluded or it's consistent
6 with their profile or "match" is a term that's sometimes
7 used.
8 We will calculate a statistical estimate and
9 that, that number means something very, very specific. It
10 means that if we go out into a given population and we pluck
11 someone at random and we type their DNA, what's the
12 probability that they are going to exhibit that same DNA
13 profile just by chance?
14 And the populations that we look at tend to be
15 in racial groups, so we will, a standard analysis, we're
16 going to calculate the three most common racial groups that
17 we see, which is Caucasian, Black and Hispanic.
18 Q. From the Caucasian group, what were the chances
19 that you could pluck somebody out of society and their DNA
20 would be the same or similar enough that you would make the
21 same finding with regard to the blood on the exterior of the
22 slippers?
23 A. Yes. The probability in the Caucasian
24 population is one in 178 quadrillion. Sometimes those
25 numbers sound a little, not what we're used to.

818
1 So if you think millions, billions, trillions,
2 we're used to. After trillions comes quadrillions.
3 Q. So highly unlikely?
4 A. That is, yeah, it's a fairly individualizing
5 type of a number.
6 Q. Now with regard to those blood stains on the
7 outside of the slippers, did those stains appear to be drops
8 of blood or did they appear to be smears of blood?
9 A. The stains on the lateral portion or the
10 outside portion of that right slipper appeared to be
11 droplet-type stains. They weren't smears. They didn't
12 appear to be transfers.
13 Q. So not like someone could pick up the slipper
14 and rub it in the blood?
15 A. That's not what it appeared to be to me.
16 Q. Let's move to the analysis done of the interior
17 of those slippers.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And were you able to obtain a profile from the
20 interior of the slipper?
21 A. The right slipper in particular, yes, and that
22 profile was a mixture of at least two individuals. And this
23 is fairly common with what we do is that often we have DNA
24 for more than one person is intermingled and we get mixtures.
25 Q. I'm going to stop you there. Why would that

819
1 be?
2 A. It could be for a variety of reasons. It could
3 be the mixing of, you know, two people bleeding in the same
4 region. It could be we have two people touching the same
5 region. There could be a wide variety of reasons why we
6 would see the commingling of DNA from multiple people.
7 Q. Perspiration?
8 A. Sure. We can sometimes recover enough
9 recoverable DNA from perspiration or from saliva or any
10 number of biological sources.
11 Q. Okay. So I apologize for interrupting you
12 there.
13 A. Yes. So the DNA profile from the interior of
14 the right slipper was consistent with a mixture of at least
15 two individuals.
16 The major contributor is consistent with the
17 DNA of Russell Faria. Therefore, we could not exclude him as
18 contributor to that profile.
19 Elizabeth Faria also could not be excluded as a
20 contributor.
21 Q. And when you talk about major contributors,
22 explain to the jury what you mean in an analysis because you
23 essentially do that throughout when there are more than one
24 comparison, correct?
25 A. Yes. It very much depends on the DNA profile

820
1 that we're analyzing, but very often we can determine what we
2 would refer to as a "major contributor".
3 In other words, one person in that mixture is
4 contributing more DNA than the other contributors.
5 So it becomes very clear to us which of those
6 is an allele. That's a term you may hear me use. An allele
7 is simply one of those differences that I described earlier
8 that we're looking for in the DNA molecule.
9 Some alleles may be present in a greater
10 quantity than others. Those very often can be used to
11 determine who is contributing the most DNA and what their
12 genotype or what their DNA type would be.
13 Q. When you say on that analysis that the major
14 contributor is consistent with the DNA of Russell Faria, back
15 to your sort of comparison, what was the chances, what were
16 the chances, rather, that you could have plucked someone out
17 of society, ran their profile to compare with the inside of
18 that slipper and they would have been as close of a match as
19 the defendant with regard to the Caucasian population?
20 A. Yes. Probability is one in 930 trillion.
21 Q. So again, highly unlikely?
22 A. Yes. It's a fairly individualizing type of a
23 number.
24 Q. I'm going to draw your attention now to your
25 Item Number Q4, which is our Item Number 14?

821
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And that was the knife that was submitted to
3 you; is that right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. I hate this thing.
6 A. It's for your safety.
7 Q. Right. We've only done this way too many
8 times. And do you recognize this to be the knife that you
9 examined and performed testing on?
10 A. Yes, I do from my identifier placed on the
11 packaging.
12 Q. Were you able to come up with the profile?
13 A. Yes, I was.
14 Q. And was that specifically from the blade or
15 from the handle, as well?
16 A. I took several samples from that knife, again,
17 with two purposes in mind. It was very saturated with what
18 was apparent to be blood and later, upon testing, determined
19 that it was, in fact, consistent with human blood.
20 But so collected samples to determine who might
21 have been the source of that blood. As well as, I processed
22 the handle of the knife in an attempt to determine who might
23 have had contact with the handle of the knife.
24 Now as I had previously stated, the entire
25 knife was pretty heavily coated with blood, and so the only
822
1 DNA profile that was obtained was consistent with Elizabeth
2 Faria.
3 Q. And going back to the concept of a major
4 contributor, I'm going to say "minor contributor", which I
5 know probably isn't probably saying the right word?
6 A. No. We would often refer to minor
7 contributors, as well.
8 Q. Going back to that concept, can you explain to
9 the jury why it would be difficult, with the amount of the
10 blood on the knife and the handle, to derive any other
11 contributors?
12 A. Yes. Sometimes when we're dealing with a body
13 fluid like blood, which has a very high concentration of DNA,
14 and we're mixing that with what might have a very, very low
15 concentration of DNA, it's going to be very unlikely that
16 we're going to detect that second contributor or multiple
17 contributors simply because there's not very much DNA present
18 compared to that in the blood.
19 Q. So essentially, the one DNA just overpowers the
20 other one?
21 A. Right. And I was not surprised at the results
22 that the only profile that was detected was that of Ms.
23 Faria.
24 Q. I will draw your attention next to your Item
25 Q5, which is my Item 25, and that was the switch plate from
823
1 the master bedroom door.
2 THE COURT: It should be Number 25, but I don't
3 have it.
4 MS. ASKEY: I don't have it down here.
5 Thank you.
6 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Do you recognize this to be the
7 switch plate that you performed your analysis on?
8 A. Yes, that's it. It looks much different than
9 when I saw it because it's had additional processing, but the
10 presence of my identifier on that is exactly what I examined.
11 Q. Okay. And can you, were you able to derive a
12 profile from that switch plate?
13 A. Yes, I was, and the focus of processing that
14 plate was specifically for what appeared to be blood on that
15 because there was some concern that there was potential ridge
16 detail in the blood stain, and so we knew that there would be
17 additional processing for fingerprinting. So the approach
18 was taken just to type what appeared to be blood.
19 Q. And what were you able -- were you able to do
20 that?
21 A. Yes. It was consistent with human blood and
22 the DNA profile was a mixture of at least two individuals, at
23 least one of which is male.
24 The major contributor is consistent with the
25 DNA profile of Elizabeth Faria. Therefore, we could not

824
1 exclude her as a contributor to that mixture.
2 Q. And since she was the major contributor, again,
3 there was more of hers than anyone else's?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And that's because it was blood?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. But the other contributor was a male?
8 A. Yes. Now the minor contributor to that profile
9 was really of no comparative value.
10 When we say that, what we mean is that there is
11 DNA present. There is data that we were able to detect, but
12 either due to quantity, which would be the case in this
13 instance, there's certainly not a preponderance of data there
14 present that we could do any type of a comparison to an
15 individual and say, this person is included. This person is
16 excluded.
17 In this instance, the minor contributor was of
18 no comparative value.
19 Q. I want to back up, which I should have done in
20 the very beginning. Prior to analyzing these items?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You received a buccal swab or DNA sample from
23 the defendant; is that correct?
24 A. I would have to look in my records to determine
25 when I received it but, yes, I did receive that.

825
1 Q. At some point you had that?
2 A. Yes, correct.
3 Q. Additionally, you received, which is our Item
4 34, the victim's blood for comparison analysis?
5 A. Yes. I received blood that was recovered at
6 the autopsy.
7 Q. Okay. Now I want to draw your attention to
8 Items Q16, 17 and 19 specifically, which go along with our
9 Item 26, which is the rape kit?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And do you remember receiving a rape kit for
12 comparative analysis in this case?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And is that common?
15 A. Yes, it is.
16 Q. And when do you receive those sorts of things?
17 A. Well, if there's a potential sexual assault,
18 very often, and also very often in homicides just as part of
19 routine analysis we'll do that.
20 Q. Do you recognize this to be the rape kit that
21 you used for analysis?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. And explain to the jury, then, what you do with
24 -- Dr. Sabharwal was on the stand and kind of talked about
25 the different types of swabbing and that sort of thing that

826
1 you do.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Explain to the jury, then, what you do with the
4 rape kit in an effort to analyze it. What are you looking
5 for?
6 A. We are primarily looking for seminal material,
7 especially if we're taking vaginal swabs.
8 A sexual assault kit has a variety of different
9 things in it, as it sounds like you have already been
10 educated on, but the primary evidence that we're looking for
11 is vaginal, rectal, oral swabs, looking for the presence of
12 seminal material.
13 Q. And additionally, Dr. Sabharwal talked about
14 pubic combings that they took.
15 A. Very routinely they will do pubic hair
16 combings, and so often we will examine hairs to see if, "A",
17 are they human and, "B", do they lend themselves to doing the
18 type of DNA analysis that we perform.
19 Q. With regard to Item Q16?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I believe that's the vaginal swab?
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. Were you able to detect any -- I'm going to
24 back up. There's a difference between semen and seminal
25 fluid; is that correct?

827
1 A. Well, what I would say is that seminal fluid is
2 a complex of multiple components. There is a liquid
3 component. If we want to get really technical, we call that
4 the seminal plasma. And then there's a solid component, a
5 cellular component which are the sperm cells, spermatozoa.
6 We would make a distinction between sperm cells
7 and seminal fluid, because seminal fluid may or may not
8 contain sperm cells for a variety of reasons.
9 Q. Why wouldn't it contain sperm cells?
10 A. Well, if that individual has been vasectomized,
11 then those spermatozoas will produce but they don't find
12 their way into the seminal fluid.
13 There are many disease processes which result
14 in sterility. So there could be a variety of reasons.
15 Q. Now if you have semen with sperm, living sperm
16 in it?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. At some point, those sperm die, is that
19 correct, or they are no longer active? I don't know what the
20 right term is.
21 A. That's not inappropriate to say that.
22 Certainly after a certain amount of time after deposition,
23 especially if that stain, if that fluid dries out, then,
24 yeah, they would no longer react.
25 Q. And then would it, would you be able to yield a

828
1 sperm cell fraction from seminal fluid or from semen wherein
2 all of the sperm had died?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Is there a time when that fluid would then have
5 absorbed in a way that you wouldn't be able to obtain a sperm
6 cell fraction?
7 A. Sure, if we're talking about a penetrated
8 orifice like the vagina, over time then, yeah, through either
9 gravity or, and just the normal metabolic processes, then
10 eventually it would get to the point where we would not be
11 able to detect that.
12 Q. But you may still be able to detect the seminal
13 fluid?
14 A. Potentially.
15 Q. With regard to Item Q16, which is the vaginal
16 swab of Elizabeth Faria, were you able to detect any sperm?
17 A. Yes, I was, and how we do this is we extract
18 material from the swab and we'll put it on a slide and we'll
19 stain it so we can actually observe those visually and so,
20 yes, I underwent that process and sperm cells were detected.
21 Q. And specifically, how many sperm cells?
22 A. Well, how that process works is we'll have a
23 sample, and we're going to take a random sampling of that.
24 So it's going to be a subset of the total amount that's
25 present, and what I observed were eight sperm cells.

829
1 Q. Now you said earlier before when I brought the
2 rape kit forward, you process rape kits in cases where there
3 isn't a homicide; is that true?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And you have the opportunity to process rape
6 kits in crimes where a person is raped and then immediately
7 go and get the rape kit done; is that correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. What are you looking for in your lab, what
10 would you say is a good number or a good sperm cell fraction
11 that is achieved immediately after a rape?
12 A. Well, I mean it could be anywhere from, you
13 know, I've seen slides where I've been able to identify
14 hundreds of sperm cells or, you know, very often we're going
15 to look for about 25 and then we kind of stop because beyond
16 that, we've pretty much done the job.
17 A good rule of thumb that we use, we like to
18 see about 15 sperm cells on a slide to know we've got a high
19 probability of getting a good DNA profile, and we simply just
20 use that. If we have multiple samplings, we may use that to
21 choose which one we proceed to do analysis on.
22 Q. And that's within a couple of hours,
23 essentially?
24 A. It could vary. A good rule of thumb, as far as
25 recovery of seminal material from the vaginal vault is about

830
1 72 hours. There's some variation within that, you know,
2 especially if that person is deceased. Then that might
3 extend that a little bit.
4 You know, it becomes very, very difficult for
5 us to time the event and put a time stamp on when that
6 happened, but 72 hours we usually have a high probability to
7 be able to detect seminal material in the vagina.
8 Q. Until 72 hours has lapsed?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. You also received -- strike that.
11 On Q16, you were able to detect sperm cell
12 fraction, semen?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Were you able to develop a profile based on
15 that?
16 A. Yes, I was.
17 Q. And whose profile was it?
18 A. And to give you a little frame of reference on
19 how this process works, we do have ways of exploiting
20 differences between sperm cells and other types of cells.
21 Skin cells that may be from the vagina, for example.
22 Sperm cells behave a little differently, so we
23 can use that to our advantage and what we attempt to do is to
24 separate sperm cells from other types of cells and then we
25 analyze them or do DNA analysis separately. So when we use

831
1 terms like "sperm cell fraction" or "non-sperm fraction",
2 that's what I'm referring to.
3 It's all an attempt to separate what we know to
4 be male, because females don't produce sperm cells, from what
5 potentially is female.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. As far as the vaginal swab goes, the sperm cell
8 fraction, I was able to generate a DNA profile. That profile
9 is a mixture of at least two individuals and was consistent
10 with combined profiles of Elizabeth Faria and Russell Faria.
11 So we don't have a situation where we have a
12 major contributor or minor contributor. Essentially, it's a
13 pretty even, well, it is consistent with a pretty even
14 mixture of those two individuals.
15 Q. Now you also did analysis on your Item Q17?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Which was a rectal swab?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And were you able to develop a profile from,
20 specifically, the exterior of the rectum?
21 A. Yes, I was able to develop a DNA from the
22 rectal swab. From the sperm cell fraction, specifically.
23 Now this profile is a mixture of at least two individuals, as
24 well.
25 At least one of those individuals is male, so

832
1 we did have an indication that it's a male. Now the major
2 contributor is consistent with the DNA of Elizabeth Faria and
3 the minor contributor was essentially inconclusive, of no
4 comparative value, just not information there for us to do a
5 comparison.
6 Q. And that specific sample was not, you weren't
7 able to yield a sperm cell fraction; is that right?
8 A. Yeah, that's correct. I was not able to
9 identify sperm cells. As I alluded to before, there's many
10 other components in seminal fluid and we can test for
11 proteins that are specific to semen.
12 So that was performed in this case and that was
13 positive. So it was consistent with a weak amount of seminal
14 fluid, but no sperm cells were identified.
15 Q. Can you explain to the jury how that would
16 happen?
17 A. It could be a variety of ways. It could be the
18 situation we spoke of earlier where you have got an
19 individual who doesn't produce sperm.
20 It could happen as a result of preejaculate,
21 which has a very, very small quantity of sperm cells,
22 sometimes so small that it's not detected.
23 It could be the result of drainage of the
24 vagina, which we see very often. We'll often see very trace
25 amounts or small amounts of seminal material on the rectal

833
1 swabs due to drainage. It doesn't mean there was penetration
2 of that orifice, but gravity working how it does, there's
3 very often drainage into that area.
4 Q. Even though there might be a sperm cell
5 fraction in the vaginal cavity, there could very well not
6 yield a sperm cell fraction on the exterior of the body?
7 A. That's certainly possible.
8 Q. And when you talk about drainage and gravity
9 working, we're talking about a person having intercourse and
10 then going about their day; is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And so explain to the jury what you mean by the
13 natural process of gravity.
14 A. Well, I mean seminal fluid being a liquid, then
15 gravity working upon it means that it can leak from the
16 vaginal barrel into the exterior.
17 Q. And is that something that if a person is up
18 walking around, going to the doctor, taking showers, those
19 sorts of things, that you are still going to find that
20 secretion 70 hours after intercourse?
21 A. Not really knowing, I mean, there's many
22 factors that are going to be involved in whether we can
23 recover material or not, and much of that has to do with
24 hygiene practices of that person because there have been many
25 instances where 72 hours later, yes, we can recover material.

834
1 It depends on how that sample was collected,
2 where specifically it was collected from. It may depend on
3 did that person put the same pair of underwear back on.
4 So there are a lot of factors involved in that
5 and they are certainly not questions that I would have the
6 answers to.
7 Q. Let me ask you --
8 A. It's hard for me to speculate.
9 Q. If a person took a bath?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Took a shower, washed --
12 MR. SWANSON: Objection. Calls for
13 speculation.
14 THE COURT: Overruled at this point.
15 Q. (By Ms. Askey) -- used the bathroom,
16 defecated, would those things affect your ability to be able
17 to see seminal fluid on a rectal swab?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Finally, you analyzed Q19, which was a pubic
20 combing?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were you able to detect any hair other than
23 Elizabeth Faria's?
24 A. Yeah. That combing did have a hair present in
25 it and it was examined microscopically, and we're looking for

835
1 characteristics that are specific to humans.
2 And the result of that examination was that,
3 that particular hair disclosed characteristics that were not
4 consistent with being human. So it was a not a human hair.
5 Animal hair.
6 Q. Okay. Thank you, sir.
7 MS. ASKEY: I have no further questions.
9 MR. SWANSON: Yes, Your Honor.
11 BY MR. SWANSON:
12 Q. Hello, Mr. Fahnestock.
13 A. Hello.
14 Q. Now in addition to the DNA analysis you talked
15 about, you also did, you said you did biological analysis?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. What's that?
18 A. Well, some of which we've already spoken about
19 and it involves many chemical tests. It might involve
20 microscopic examination.
21 So it might -- so when I've described testing
22 for the presence of blood or doing a microscopic evaluation
23 for spermatozoa, those would be the examples of biological
24 analysis.
25 Q. Basically, you are looking for biological

836
1 material?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Were you provided with clothing for Mr. Faria?
4 A. Yes, I was.
5 Q. Specifically, you were provided a pair of his
6 jeans?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. His shirt?
9 A. It's in my list here. Pardon me. Yes.
10 Q. Two socks?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. A belt?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And his watch?
16 Q. To the best of your knowledge, that was the
17 clothes he was wearing when he contacted the police on
18 December 27th?
19 A. I didn't have any knowledge of when he would
20 have been wearing those.
21 Q. Did you look for blood on any of those, on
22 those clothes?
23 A. Yes. I looked for blood on all of those.
24 Q. Were you able to locate any blood?
25 A. No, I was not.

837
1 Q. Okay. And then --
2 A. I did detect one blood stain. It was
3 consistent with not being human, however, on a sock.
4 Q. On a sock?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. All right.
7 A. But in conclusion, no. I wasn't able to detect
8 any that was consistent with human blood.
9 Q. Were you provided any of Betsy Faria's clothes?
10 A. I was provided a shirt and, I believe, a bra,
11 which was not examined by me, but we did receive that. I did
12 receive and examine a black T-shirt with a lobster logo.
13 Q. Did you -- and you examined that?
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 Q. Did you find human blood on it?
16 A. Yes. It had extensive amounts of blood
17 present.
18 Q. Did you perform DNA testing on that?
19 A. Yes, I did. I took several swabbings of a
20 specific region that was pointed out to me by, I believe it
21 was Amy Pratt, who is a crime scene investigator, and she had
22 some specific interest in a region of that because it looked
23 like it might have been -- someone had grabbed it and
24 twisted. It looked twisted.
25 So didn't really examine the entire shirt to

838
1 any great extent. We weren't really focused on that
2 particular region.
3 Q. Fair enough. And actually, you work with Ms.
4 Pratt fairly frequently; is that fair to say?
5 A. We work for the same agency, yes.
6 Q. She processes items and gives them to you for
7 further testing?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. She gave, processed the shirt and gave it to
10 you for further testing?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Did she ever give you a pair of pants?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did she ever -- so you never saw a pair of
15 Betsy Faria's pants?
16 A. No. I did not.
17 Q. Would it be standard practice if Ms. Pratt or
18 Ms. Tiffany Fischer located a blood stain on something sent
19 to you for DNA testing?
20 A. I mean, they send many items to me for DNA
21 testing. Victim's clothing, in a situation where there's a
22 vast amount of what we presume to be a victim's blood, I
23 would say that would be pretty rare that they would send that
24 to me unless they had a specific reason.
25 Q. If Ms. Fischer had a specific stain she was

839
1 interested in, if she did testing and determined that was
2 blood, she would send it to you for further testing?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. You didn't get a pair of pants?
5 A. No, I didn't.
6 Q. All right. And again, just to clarify, you
7 looked at all of Russell Faria's clothing that you were
8 provided and found no blood?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. You were also provided tile samples from the
11 Faria household?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did you examine those to see if you could
14 find any blood?
15 A. I did.
16 Q. Were you able to locate any human blood on
17 those tile samples?
18 A. I was not able to confirm the presence of any
19 human blood on those, no.
20 Q. And how many samples were you given?
21 A. Of the tiles, let's see. They were "A" through
22 "I", so that would be nine.
23 Q. And of the nine, none had blood?
24 A. I did have one that initially appeared like
25 there could be a trace amount of blood. The type of test we

840
1 were using at this point is called luminol, or Blue Star is a
2 commercial manufacturer of that, and so what it does is it
3 fluoresces in the presence of blood.
4 So I did have one of those samples where I did
5 get it to fluorescence. I was not able to tie that to a
6 particular stain or, therefore, confirm that that was blood
7 and especially human blood.
8 Q. You mentioned luminol and Blue Star?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Those are presumptive tests?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And do they have a high false positive rate?
13 A. Yes, they do.
14 Q. What gives, what produces a false positive?
15 A. A variety of things, and that's where they are
16 presumptive in nature. Really, those types of reagents are
17 best for enhancing patterns. So if you have something
18 that's, that was made in blood that gives some sort of a
19 pattern, they are great for that.
20 For the detection and evaluation of blood, they
21 are not primarily what we would use. So, I'm sorry, I forgot
22 what your initial question was.
23 Q. I almost did, too. False positive?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. False positive?
841
1 A. A false positive and another reason why we
2 don't use it typically for the detection of blood is because
3 it does have a lot of false positives.
4 So that could be things like plant materials.
5 It could be dirt, bleach. A lot of cleaning supplies will
6 give false positives.
7 Q. When you say "cleaning supplies", are these
8 like esoteric cleaning supplies or industrial or fairly
9 common?
10 A. No, fairly common.
11 Q. Stuff you get at the grocery store?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So with all that, you weren't able to locate or
14 confirm any human blood?
15 A. Correct. It's because of those false positives
16 that I would make attempts to confirm anything that I
17 collect.
18 Q. You were also provided cabinets?
19 A. Yes. Some doors.
20 Q. Were you able to locate any or confirm the
21 presence of human blood on any of those?
22 A. No, I was not.
23 Q. Now Ms. Askey asked about the sexual assault
24 kit, and there's no evidence of sexual assault here, that's
25 the term, rape kit?

842
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You said something about 72 hours?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So depending on the person's hygiene, what they
5 did, you would expect to find evidence of sexual intimacy, if
6 you want to call it that, for up to 72 hours?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So from Sunday to Wednesday, you would expect
9 like if something occurred on Sunday and the sample was taken
10 Wednesday, you would expect to find evidence of sexual
11 intimacy then?
12 A. Well, there would be a potential of that, yes.
13 Q. It wouldn't be odd?
14 A. No, it would not at all.
15 Q. Fair. And I want to go back to samples Q1 and
16 Q2. Those are the slippers?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Now the exterior stains on the slippers, that
19 was Betsy Faria's blood?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. But do you have any idea how old that blood
22 was?
23 A. No.
24 Q. You don't know how it got there?
25 A. No.
843
1 Q. The interior swabbings, did you locate any
2 blood on the inside of the slippers?
3 A. No, I did not.
4 Q. And the interior swabbings, they gave you a
5 mixture of DNA?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right.
8 A. I believe some of them did.
9 Q. For -- on the Q1 --
10 A. Yes, on the right slipper, the interior of the
11 right slipper was a mixture, yes.
12 Q. According to Q1-B1, that was all -- the
13 interior of the left slipper was also a mixture?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Let's see. For Q1-B1, it says the major
16 contributor is Russell Faria, are consistent?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. But you don't know who the minor contributor
19 was?
20 A. No. Actually, Elizabeth Faria could not be
21 excluded as a minor contributor.
22 Q. That just means that she could be. It doesn't
23 me she is, correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. It could be someone else?

844
1 A. Yes, it could be. Sure.
2 Q. And similarly for the minor contributor to the
3 interior of the left slipper?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. It could be someone else. It's not necessarily
6 Betsy, or Elizabeth Faria?
7 A. It is consistent with her DNA, yes.
8 Absolutely.
9 Q. But it's not -- how do I put this? It's
10 consistent with her DNA but it's not inconsistent with
11 somebody else's?
12 A. Okay. Sure.
13 Q. It could be, they could be somebody who isn't
14 Betsy Faria?
15 A. Yes. And that's precisely why we do the
16 calculations that we do, to put a framework around that on
17 what's the probability of that happening.
18 Q. And for neither one you don't have -- for
19 neither Q1-B1 or Q2-B1, for the interior of the slippers, you
20 don't have a probability of minor contributors?
21 A. No, that's correct. We certainly could
22 calculate that, but given the fact that the outside had a
23 high degree of her blood, we felt there's a reasonable
24 expectation that her DNA would be present. It's also in her
25 house.
845
1 Q. Similarly it's Russell Faria's house, so you
2 would expect to find his DNA?
3 A. Exactly. We determined that, that was not
4 necessarily probative but we could certainly make that
5 calculation.
6 Q. Just to back way up.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. There's, is there anyone else in the laboratory
9 at the St. Charles County Crime Lab who would have tested
10 Betsy Faria's pants for DNA?
11 A. No.
12 Q. The last item I'd like to call your attention
13 to is Item Q21-A.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Those are fingernail clippings from Elizabeth
16 Faria's right-hand?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Why do you test fingernail clippings?
19 A. Well, it's pretty standard in a homicide that
20 they will collect those fingernail clippings in case there's
21 any scratching, you know, as part of defense. Then
22 oftentimes we can recover material from underneath the
23 fingernails.
24 Q. And then you developed a profile from the
25 fingernail clippings?
846
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. That was consistent with Elizabeth Faria?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. You excluded Russell Faria as a source of that
5 profile?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you find any other genetic material
8 underneath or in the right hand fingernail clippings?
9 A. Okay. Yes. The DNA profile that was detected
10 was a mixture of -- actually, let me back up.
11 We wouldn't really even characterize that as a
12 mixture of two individuals. We did find a single allele at a
13 single genetic location and so --
14 Q. A single additional to Betsy's, or Elizabeth's?
15 A. To Mrs. Faria's, yes.
16 Q. It's not enough to make a full profile?
17 A. Not by a long stretch, no.
18 Q. Fair enough. But you know it didn't come from
19 Betsy?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Could it have come from Russell Faria?
22 A. It's not consistent with coming from Russell
23 Faria.
24 Q. So you found one gene at least?
25 A. One allele.
847
1 Q. One allele?
2 A. Allele would be the appropriate term, sure.
3 Q. That was not Betsy Faria's?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And it was not Russell Faria's?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. It was under her fingernails?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. SWANSON: All right. Nothing further.
12 BY MS. ASKEY:
13 Q. Mr. Fahnestock, what does that mean to you that
14 there was one additional allele under Betsy Faria's
15 fingernail?
16 A. It means very little to me. I mean, DNA can be
17 recovered in many different situations, and the presence of a
18 single allele is, from our prospective, not meaningful.
19 It's certainly not meaningful for our analysis.
20 However, we do report its presence.
21 Q. How could a single allele wind up under a
22 person's fingernail?
23 A. A variety of reasons. A variety of ways. You
24 know, just coming in contact with people on a daily basis,
25 you can accumulate material.

848
1 I'm sure if you have small children, you
2 definitely are going to find traces of their DNA under your
3 fingernails.
4 A single allele like that, frankly, it could be
5 from the collection tool that they used or from the person
6 who did the collection. All of those things would be
7 possible. I can't speculate in this case how that would
8 happen.
9 Q. Now are you sent or is the crime lab sent every
10 piece of evidence that is sized from a crime scene?
11 A. Typically, no.
12 Q. Why would -- let me back up. If I have a pair
13 of pants that have what appears to be obvious blood stains --
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. -- on the person that's deceased, would I
16 necessarily need to send those to you for you to tell me
17 those are her blood stains?
18 A. No. Typically, they would not send that to me
19 and if they did, I typically would not examine it unless
20 there was a specific reason to do so.
21 Q. Okay. In all of the profiles that you
22 developed, when analyzing the items that both I've presented
23 to you and Mr. Swanson?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You developed a profile at some point on some

849
1 of those of Elizabeth Faria?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And you also developed a profile at some point
4 of Russell Faria on some of those?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. You were able, were you ever able to develop,
7 on any one of those pieces, a third profile that was unknown?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Mr. Swanson asked you if it's consistent that
10 up to 72 hours you could tell that a person had sex?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I think your answer was "yes"?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You wouldn't find that uncommon?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Up until 72 hours?
17 A. Correct. And maybe even beyond that.
18 Q. But if a person were showering, defecating,
19 changing clothes, would you find it common 72 hours, three
20 days later, for a woman to still have drainage after
21 intercourse?
22 A. I would say all of those activities would
23 lessen my ability to detect that material, but I cannot rule
24 out that it may still be present after 72 hours.
25 Q. Mr. Swanson asked you about the tile samples

850
1 that were submitted, as well as, I believe, the fronts of
2 drawers or cabinets?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When those are submitted from law enforcement,
5 a control sample is sent along with, I guess, the one that
6 reacted; is that right?
7 A. Very often that's the case, yes.
8 Q. Okay. And so you'll have one that they know
9 didn't react along with one that they know did?
10 A. Sometimes that would be the case, yes.
11 Q. Okay. And can you explain to the jury what
12 process you used and why, then, it would be unlikely for you
13 to be able to determine blood on the non-control sample, on
14 the reacting sample?
15 A. I'm sorry. Can you restate the question?
16 Q. I know. That was an awful question. I
17 apologize.
18 A. I think I understand what you mean, but I want
19 to make sure.
20 Q. When you get the sample, what do you do to try
21 to determine if there's any blood present?
22 A. Okay. These tiles that I received, I was
23 contacted because I was told that there were some stains
24 detected with, I believe, Blue Star at the crime scene.
25 Those were, these were kind of a peel, you

851
1 know, you peel the adhesive back and you stick the linoleum
2 down type of a situation. So these were peeled up and they
3 were sent to me.
4 Now another reason of why, in the laboratory,
5 we don't typically use luminol or Blue Star is because you
6 have to spray this on a surface, and so that tends to dilute
7 your sample and, especially if you reapply, you are
8 continuing to dilute that sample, which can be problematic
9 from my prospective.
10 Once it gets to me, because as I explained
11 before, we have to do some additional testing to, in fact,
12 confirm that yeah, this is, in fact, blood before we can ever
13 get to any DNA analysis because it wouldn't be that
14 meaningful if we can't confirm that's blood.
15 So this is something that had already been
16 processed. Linoleum is not a very absorbing type of a
17 material, and so what you do is we've laid these things out
18 as carefully as we can and unrolled them and we tried to
19 reproduce what the crime scene people did, which is to
20 reapply and see if we can find that region so we can do
21 additional testing on it.
22 I wasn't able to do that, and when you hit
23 linoleum with what is a mist of a liquid, it starts to roll
24 everywhere, and so it very quickly became apparent to me that
25 this might be very difficult to reproduce. Does that answer

852
1 your question?
2 Q. Yes. So if I have whatever substance,
3 chocolate milk on a tile?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And I cleaned it up and I can't see it anymore,
6 and I apply whatever product to allow me to be able to see
7 it --
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. -- that application within itself dilutes any
10 evidence of chocolate milk further beyond my cleaning agent?
11 A. Correct, especially on a nonabsorbent surface
12 like that.
13 Q. Then when I send it to you, you were going to
14 further dilute it, thus minimizing the possibility to be able
15 to detect the chocolate milk further?
16 A. Correct. So I was unable to reproduce and
17 confirm those results. That doesn't necessarily mean those
18 results were incorrect.
19 MS. ASKEY: I don't have anything further.
22 BY MR. SWANSON:
23 Q. You were only provided two known DNA samples?
24 A. I was provided a third from a Mr. Hillman, Mike
25 Hillman.
853
1 Q. Were you?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you create a sample for that?
4 A. I did.
5 Q. Or did you process that?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. If you were provided additional samples, you
8 would compare them?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. And you might find some of the mixtures would
11 be perhaps not exclusively consistent but consistent with
12 those additional samples?
13 A. That's potential, yes.
14 Q. And with regards to Blue Star, I think you
15 mentioned earlier, Blue Star is great for enhancing patterns?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And if there's a pattern that one of the people
18 in the St. Charles County Crime Lab thinks is important and
19 they apply Blue Star to it, they would hope to enhance it?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. If they think it's blood?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. If they are especially interested, they would
24 provide it to you for further testing?
25 A. Depending on--
854
1 Q. That's what Ms. Fischer did with the shirt, for
2 example?
3 A. Correct. Correct.
4 Q. And that didn't happen with a pair of pants?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And then last, you said Blue Star has a high
7 false positive rate?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. I want to make sure I say this right. Because
10 of the high false positive rate, positive Blue Star result --
11 I may paraphrase you, but tell me if you agree.
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. --is not meaningful if you can't confirm it?
14 A. It's not meaningful for us to continue with
15 doing DNA analysis. It may still be meaningful in the
16 reconstruction of the crime, but for me to proceed with DNA
17 analysis, that's only meaningful if I can confirm that it's
18 blood.
19 Q. But if you can't confirm it, it could easily be
20 the false positive?
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. You were not able to confirm any blood here?
23 A. I was not.
24 MR. SWANSON: Nothing further.

855
1 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MS. ASKEY:
3 Q. Mr. Fahnestock, the shirt?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. It was black, correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. So from the naked eye, you couldn't tell that
8 the substance was red, yellow, white, whatever; is that true?
9 A. True.
12 MR. SWANSON: Nothing.
16 THE COURT: Mr. Swanson, may he be released?
17 MR. SWANSON: Yes.
18 THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You are released.
20 THE COURT: Any further evidence at this time
21 on behalf of the State?
22 MS. ASKEY: The State would call Janet Myer.
23 JANET MYER,
856
3 MS. ASKEY: May it please the Court?
4 THE COURT: You may proceed when you are ready.
6 BY MS. ASKEY:
7 Q. Janet?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. First, I apologize for calling you to the
10 stand, but would you please introduce yourself to the jury?
11 A. I'm Janet Meyer, Betsy Faria's mother.
12 Q. And Janet --
13 THE COURT: I think her microphone is off. Is
14 the light on? Thank you.
15 A. I'm Janet Meyer, Betsy Faria's mother.
16 Q. (By Ms. Askey) Okay. And you have been in the
17 Courtroom for the last couple of days?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And unfortunately, you've seen some of the
20 pictures that have been on the screen.
21 A. I put my head down. I didn't want to see them.
22 I couldn't see them.
23 Q. Were you able to identify whether or not that
24 was your daughter?
25 A. I just saw the head, the hair and it did look

857
1 like it. That's all I looked at was the head, the hair.
2 Q. Do you have any reason to believe it wasn't
3 your daughter?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Janet, I'm going to draw your attention to the
6 evening of December 27th, 2011. Did you make a phone call to
7 Russ Faria that evening?
8 A. I did.
9 Q. And what was that phone call regarding?
10 A. Well, I couldn't reach Betsy. So I didn't know
11 the time, but they said it was 8:57 p.m., so I'm sure that's
12 right.
13 I called to see if he knew where she was. I
14 was worried sick because I couldn't reach her.
15 Q. Did you leave him a message?
16 A. I did.
17 Q. Is that the message that you left him?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did he return your call?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Had you ever left him similar messages in the
22 past?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Would he return your call then?
25 A. Anytime it pertained to Betsy's whereabouts, he

858
1 always called me back to assure me where she was.
2 Q. But he didn't call you that night?
3 A. Huh-uh.
4 Q. Betsy stayed with you a couple of days there
5 prior to?
6 A. The night before.
7 Q. And was she the kind of person that would
8 shower and -- I'm not going to ask you if you went in the
9 shower with her, but did she typically shower before she went
10 to events or chemotherapy or those sort of events?
11 A. Yes. Yes. Yes. She was a very clean person.
12 Q. Thank you.
16 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
17 Q. Ms. Meyer, Betsy had spent Sunday night at home
18 with Russ, correct?
19 A. Sunday night, yeah. Uh-huh.
20 Q. That was Christmas night?
21 A Christmas night, yes.
22 Q. You heard testimony earlier that she had said
23 she was, they were intimate on that night?
24 A. I heard that, yes.
25 Q. And the next day they had come to, that's the
859
1 day they went to his family, they were at his family's and
2 then over at your ex-husband's house to celebrate
3 Christmas --
4 A. That's the 26th.
5 Q. -- which is when Mariah got sick, correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Betsy was wearing a certain amount of clothes
8 that day, right?
9 A. I hope so.
10 Q. She was wearing the things she was ultimately
11 found in on that day. She came over to your house in those
12 clothes on Monday?
13 A. I don't remember what she was wearing.
14 Q. She wore those -- she did have a change of
15 clothes. She spent the night at your house and went to
16 chemo, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. She went home in those same clothes that night,
19 correct?
20 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object as to asked and
21 answered. She testified she doesn't remember what she was
22 wearing.
23 A. I don't remember what she had on. I'm sorry.
24 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Okay. You did say she had a
25 change of clothes?
860
1 A. Yes. I'm sure she did.
2 Q. All right. And how did she get home?
3 A. Let's see. This is the 26th we're talking
4 about?
5 Q. No, on the 27th. How did she get home?
6 A. Oh, the 27th we're on?
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. Pam Hupp took her home.
9 Q. And would you consider Pam one of her closest
10 friends?
11 A. Yes and no. Yes, I guess.
12 Q. So maybe --
13 A. The last few years, maybe.
14 Q. And Pam had come to your house earlier that
15 day, right?
16 A. She did.
17 Q. And was Pam supposed to go to chemo with her?
18 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object as it calls for
19 hearsay and speculation.
20 THE COURT: Sustained at this time.
21 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Did Pam go to chemo with
22 her?
23 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object as it calls
24 for, unless she was there and knows firsthand. She would
25 have to derive it from somebody else.

861
1 THE COURT: Ma'am, if you know firsthand, if
2 you were there, you can answer that question.
3 A. She came to my house and they had already left.
4 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Who had already left?
5 A. Betsy went with Bobbi to chemo.
6 Q. And then Pam ultimately went there?
7 A. Pam went, yes.
8 Q. Where do you live, Ms. Meyer?
9 A. In an apartment in Lake St. Louis.
10 Q. And that's, from where Betsy was living up in
11 Troy, that's about 30 minutes?
12 A. Around 30 minutes, yes.
13 Q. And did you know earlier that Russ was going to
14 come by and pick up Betsy and take her home?
15 A. No. I had no knowledge of that--
16 Q. --You had no knowledge?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Ultimately, where did Pam live in relation to
19 you?
20 A. She lived in O'Fallon, which is 20 minutes
21 maybe.
22 Q. All right.
23 A. East of me.
24 Q. Yet she ended up taking Betsy home that night
25 to Troy?
862
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And the reason you called Russ to find out
3 Betsy's whereabouts was why?
4 A. Because I didn't know where she was, and Pam
5 Hupp called and said she was concerned. She had tried to
6 reach her and didn't know where she was or why she wasn't
7 answering.
8 Q. Pam Hupp called you--
9 A. She did.
10 Q. --Right before you called Russ?
11 A. Well, not right before because I was trying to
12 reach Betsy myself before I called Russ.
13 Q. But it was about five minutes before you called
14 Russ, almost 9 o'clock when you got the call?
15 A. I can't remember when she called me. It could
16 have been like a half hour even before I called.
17 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I showed
18 you a copy of the statement you gave to the police?
19 A. I can't read it, remember? I have macular
20 degeneration. I can't read it. You can read it to me.
21 MR. SCHWARTZ: Is it all right if I quietly
22 read it?
23 THE COURT: Sure. You can read it.
24 (Counsel read statement to the witness out of
25 the hearing of the jury.)

863
1 A. Okay. Then that would be right. I did not
2 remember the time.
3 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) So you told Officer Mauzie
4 and Officer Queen when they came that you had a call at
5 approximately 8:52 from Pam that she couldn't reach Betsy; is
6 that correct?
7 A. Okay. That's correct then.
8 Q. All right. And then you talked to Pam and you
9 told Officer Mauzie that Pam indicated to you that she did
10 not go in Elizabeth's residence?
11 MR. HICKS: May we approach?
12 THE COURT: You can approach.
14 MR. HICKS: Our objection is that this would be
15 hearsay that Pam told her that she didn't go in the house.
16 That would be the first objection.
17 Even if there was an exception for it to get
18 in, it's not relevant because this witness, Pam is not on
19 stand to be impeached with this statement.
20 The third reason is that if she was on the
21 stand, per the Court's prior ruling, there would be no reason
22 to impeach her with the statements except to show that maybe
23 she was involved in this crime.
24 So if they brought into direct evidence that
25 Pam went into the house and I questioned Pam and if you
864
1 recall, she told the Detective and admitted that she had told
2 the Detective at first that she did not go in the house, but
3 then she actually did go in the house while she's calling her
4 an hour and a half later. I have a right to impeach Pam with
5 what she told her. It's a prior inconsistent statement.
6 THE COURT: But on the stand she said that she
7 didn't and --
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: She said she didn't tell Janet
9 that. What reason would she have to tell Janet that?
10 MR. HICKS: No. My recollection is that she
11 said, well, I may have told her that just like I told the
12 police officers that initially.
13 MR. SWANSON: Additionally, it's not hearsay.
14 It's what she told Officer Mauzie.
15 MR. SCHWARTZ: Right.
16 MR. SWANSON: Being offered to explain her
17 subsequent conduct of calling Betsy and calling Russ.
18 THE COURT: She can say what she said. She
19 can't say what anybody said to her.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: She can if it's impeachment.
21 MR. SWANSON: I told the Officer this and
22 that's why I was doing these things.
23 MR. SCHWARTZ: If I asked you, did you tell
24 Nate you went to the grocery store and you say "no", I can
25 get on the stand and say she told me she went to the grocery
865
1 store.
2 MR. HICKS: That's true, but you first have to
3 have a witness who says either I did say that or I don't
4 recall saying that.
5 THE COURT: I don't recall her saying that
6 about that. I'm recalling her say she did and she didn't.
7 She didn't even know what she said.
8 MR. SCHWARTZ: I'll ask what she told the
9 police.
10 THE COURT: You have a right to ask her what
11 she told anybody.
12 MR. HICKS: But regardless, this ultimately
13 goes to the issue that it has been a part of the pretrial
14 Motion.
15 THE COURT: Right.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: Then why did you guys bring in
17 that she was in the house and spent, in the house, 45
18 minutes? That's the fact that she told her that is
19 important. It's relevant.
20 MS. ASKEY: How is it relevant at all? How is
21 it relevant at all to this case?
22 MR. SCHWARTZ: Because she's saying she gets a
23 call that Pam was worried about her. That's why, and Pam
24 testified that she went in the house. At first she told the
25 Detectives she didn't. It's an issue of her credibility and

866
1 said she was explaining her subsequent conduct.
2 It's absolutely relevant.
3 MR. HICKS: And You are attacking her
4 credibility to try to point the finger at her. That's the
5 point.
6 MS. ASKEY: Right.
7 THE COURT: You can ask her what she said, but
8 we're not going to go over and over and over the issue.
10 THE WITNESS: Will somebody give me my water?
11 Thank you.
12 THE COURT: You may proceed.
13 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Okay. You told Officer
14 Mauzie that, what we just talked about that you had gotten a
15 call around 8:52 from Pam, correct? That's what I just asked
16 you. Do you recall?
17 A. I told Roger Mauzie that?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Okay, if that's what you have got, I guess I
20 did.
21 Q. All right. And then did you also tell him that
22 Pam had indicated to you she did not go into Elizabeth's
23 residence because the house was dark and the door was
24 unlocked?
25 A. I think so.
867
1 Q. And you had just talked to Pam some several
2 hours earlier before conveying that information to Detective
3 Mauzie? You didn't make that information up, did you?
4 A. I'm going to tell you I don't remember this.
5 Q. All right. You didn't make that information up
6 if it says it in your report?
7 A. If it says it, yeah, right. It would be true,
8 yes.
9 Q. All right. Do you know why Pam went to chemo
10 with Betsy that day?
11 MS. ASKEY: Judge, I'm going to object. Calls
12 for speculation.
14 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Do you know why Pam took
15 Betsy home--
16 A. No, I do not know.
17 Q. Do you have any idea what time Pam took Betsy
18 home?
19 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object. It's calls
20 for --
21 A. What time she took her home?
22 MS. ASKEY: It calls for speculation.
24 A. What was the question? I didn't hear it.
25 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) Now that prior summer, your

868
1 daughter had had a prior episode where she called 9-1-1
2 because of bleeding; is that correct?
3 A. Uh-huh. That's correct.
4 Q. And that was as a result of this surgery?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And as a result of the surgery, she was, I
7 think the term was "bleeding profusely" and ended up calling
8 the hospital?
9 A. Yes, or the ambulance.
10 Q. The ambulance.
11 A. They came and took her.
12 Q. Did she ultimately went to the hospital as
13 result of that?
14 A. Yes. She called me on the way.
15 Q. That was at home?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And as a result, they were able to eventually
18 stop the bleeding and she was okay?
19 A. Yes. Uh-huh.
20 Q. All right.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And that was sometime, well, it was sometime
23 the previous summer?
24 A. Yes.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Nothing further. Thank you.

869
1 THE COURT: State?
2 MS. ASKEY: Just briefly.
4 BY MS. ASKEY:
5 Q. Janet, Betsy stayed with you a lot, didn't she?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did she keep clothes at your house?
8 A. Yes, she did. A few. Uh-huh.
9 Q. So it wouldn't be unheard of for her to just
10 have clothes there and to change when she got there?
11 A. Uh-huh. She would change, yeah.
12 Q. That evening, you received a call from Pam
13 Hupp?
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. You also received a call from your daughter,
16 Julie, did you not?
17 A. And that I can't remember. I just remember the
18 one from Pam Hupp.
19 Q. Julie and Leah had gone to the Verizon store?
20 A. Yeah, uh-huh.
21 Q. And you also tried to call Betsy; is that
22 right?
23 A. Oh, yes, several times, up until I went to bed
24 that night.
25 Q. And when you couldn't get a hold of her is when

870
1 you called and left a message for Russ?
2 A. Well, I tried after I called Russ because he
3 didn't call me back. So I kept trying myself to reach her.
4 Q. Okay.
5 MS. ASKEY: Nothing further. Wait. Nothing
6 further, Judge.
9 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
10 Q. Ms. Meyer, you did testify earlier that it was
11 unusual for Russ not to return your call, correct?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. Yes?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. That night--
16 A. He usually called me back.
17 Q. Well, that night when you spoke to Detective
18 Mauzie, you had told him that you had tried to reach Russ on
19 his cell phone but you were unsuccessful, correct?
20 A. Correct. No. Yeah, I reached his voicemail.
21 Q. Right. He didn't answer?
22 A. No, he did not answer.
23 Q. And you told Detective Mauzie that it was
24 normal for him not to answer his phone because on Tuesdays he
25 goes to a friend's residence and plays cards? Would it

871
1 refresh your recollection if I --
2 A. No, because if it was pertaining to Betsy's
3 whereabouts, he always called me, always called me if I was
4 worried about her. That's the only time he called me.
5 Q. So are you saying that you didn't tell that to
6 Detective Mauzie?
7 A. I don't remember saying that.
8 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I went
9 over that with you?
10 A. No.
11 MS. ASKEY: I'm going to object because it
12 mischaracterizes the statement that Counsel is reading to
13 her.
14 The statement, if she said he didn't answer the
15 phone, that's one thing. She saying he didn't answer the
16 phone but normally he would call her back. So he's
17 mischaracterizing by reading her statement.
18 MR. SCHWARTZ: That's fine. We'll go on.
19 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) After that, he asked if you
20 left a message and you said you did, right, but you didn't
21 receive a call back?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. But you also then told Detective Mauzie it was
24 not uncommon for Russ to not return your phone calls,
25 correct?
872
1 A. I don't remember saying that. I'm sorry.
2 Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I showed
3 you a copy of your report?
4 A. Probably wouldn't. If it was down there, I
5 guess that's right, but I don't remember saying it. When it
6 pertained to Betsy, he called me back.
7 Q. But you indicated that you did not receive a
8 phone call back from Russ, Janet, and you just stated it was
9 not uncommon, either, for Russ to not return phone calls.
10 A. But it pertained to her whereabouts. That's
11 the difference.
12 Q. So you did say that to Detective--
13 A. That's correct, if that's what's there.
14 Q. But if he didn't listen to the message, he
15 wouldn't have known -- if he didn't listen to the message, he
16 wouldn't have known what it was pertaining to, correct?
17 MS. ASKEY: Judge, I object as argumentative.
18 A. I feel like he listened to it and didn't call
19 me back. That's how I feel.
20 Q. (By Mr. Schwartz) You feel like he listened to
21 it?
22 A. I do.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. That's my feeling.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: I don't have anything further.

873
1 THE COURT: State?
2 MS. ASKEY: Nothing further for this witness,
3 Judge.
4 THE COURT: Thank you, ma'am. You may step
5 down.
7 THE COURT: Further evidence on behalf of the
8 State?
9 MS. ASKEY: No, Your Honor. The State rests.
10 THE COURT: Did you want to take a break before
11 you begin your Case in Chief? It's up to you, before you do
12 your first witness?
13 MS. ASKEY: I need to approach.
14 THE COURT: Yes.
16 MR. SCHWARTZ: At this time, I file a Motion
17 for Judgment of Acquittal at the Close of the State's
18 Evidence.
19 THE COURT: Motion for Acquittal at the Close
20 of State's Evidence is hereby filed. At this point, the
21 Motion for Judgment of Acquittal at the Close of State's
22 Evidence is denied.
23 I believe defendant indicated they intended to
24 admit Exhibit F, which they used yesterday. Is there any
25 objection to Defendant's Exhibit F?

874
1 MR. HICKS: No.
2 THE COURT: Defendant's Exhibit F is admitted
3 into evidence.
4 MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you.
5 MR. SWANSON: I need to file this, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
8 at this time we are going to take a brief recess.
9 The Court again reminds you of what you were
10 told at the first recess of the Court. Until you retire to
11 consider your verdict, you must not discuss this case among
12 yourselves or with others or permit anyone to discuss it in
13 your hearing. You should not form or express any opinion
14 about the case until it is finally given to you to decide.
15 Do not do any research or investigation on your
16 own about any matter regarding this case or anyone involved
17 with the trial. Do not communicate with others about the
18 case by any means. Do not read, view, or listen to any
19 newspaper, radio, electronic communication from the Internet
20 or television report of the trial, and we will be at recess
21 for about ten or fifteen minutes. Please rise for the jury.
22 (The jury left the Courtroom.)
23 (Recess.)
24 THE COURT: Please bring them in. I had told
25 you I would revisit the issue about cross-examining Pam. So I

875
1 just want to put that on the record.
2 We are back on the record outside the presence
3 of the jury, and the Court had told the defendant that the
4 Court would revisit the issue of allowing further inquiry to
5 Pam Hupp regarding the insurance policy and the change of
6 Beneficiary being to her and the like.
7 The Court had previously ruled in a Motion in
8 Limine that the issues could not be brought up and that they
9 were prejudicial and confusing to further highlight that
10 issue.
11 The Court has reviewed State versus Clark,
12 which is a Supreme Court case from 2012, 364 SW 3d 540, which
13 it finds to be controlling and also within that case, the
14 Court has reviewed Mitchell versus Cardesh, 313 SW 3d 667,
15 which is Court enbanc from 2010.
16 State versus Gardener, 8 SW 3d 66, which is Mo
17 banc from 1999 and State versus Winfrey, 337 SW 3d 1, as
18 those cases were also referenced in State versus Clark.
19 State versus Clark makes it clear that the
20 Court cannot prohibit cross-examination of a witness to test
21 that witness's accuracy, veracity or credibility.
22 Although the Court has discretion in limiting
23 the scope and extent of that cross-examination bearing on the
24 witness's bias or interest, the Court cannot completely bar
25 cross-examination.
876
1 Further, it is established that the interest of
2 a witness is never irrelevant. However, in this case, after
3 reviewing those cases and being present for our case, the
4 Court has found that defense has not been prohibited from
5 cross-examining Pam Hupp completely, and there's been several
6 items along the same line that the defense would like to get
7 into which the jury has already heard and, therefore, the
8 Court believes delving into it further would cross the line
9 to where, at that point, it would become prejudicial and
10 confusing to further highlight issues of the insurance
11 policy, particularly since the previous Motion in Limine
12 addressed the issue that you cannot try to show motive and
13 opportunity without the third element of having some direct
14 evidence.
15 And while defense would disagree that there is
16 direct evidence linking Pam Hupp, that is not the finding of
17 the Court at this time, and that was the prior ruling that
18 they may have an interest to show motive and opportunity, but
19 without that direct evidence, that was improper; and as far
20 as showing her bias or interest in the case, they have been
21 allowed to cross-examine to a large extent and just going
22 further with that would be prejudicial and confusing.
23 Specifically, the daughter of the deceased was
24 asked about if she would have any idea who would have the
25 policy or the money; she brought up Pam Hupp. So the jury

877
1 already has some information. The jury already realizes Pam
2 was the last person with the victim on the day of the
3 incident where she passed away.
4 The jury would know that Pam was the last one
5 to see her alive, that Pam took Betsy home that night; and
6 the jury also heard Pam be cross-examined on what they could
7 perceive to be inconsistencies wherein Pam said she didn't go
8 in the home and then she said she did, and where she made a
9 statement that she was home and she was defining "home" to
10 mean "home free" by out of Troy limits and on the highway and
11 could make it home. So with that, the Court believes that
12 and other testimony.
13 Also, Pam's testimony was directed more so to
14 her actions and her interactions towards Betsy and not
15 directed towards who does Pam think did it or pointing
16 fingers at the defendant and, therefore, as far as the
17 credibility to Pam's own testimony, her testimony wasn't
18 directed towards the defendant but more towards her own
19 involvement in what she saw.
20 So for that reason, the Court has reconsidered
21 that and at this time believes that it has made the right
22 decision on that issue and further questioning into that
23 subject will not be permitted.
24 MS. ASKEY: Thank you, Judge.
25 MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Your Honor.

878
1 THE COURT: Are we ready to call the jurors in?
2 (The jury entered the Courtroom.)
4 For the record, we will call each juror by
5 number. Please raise your right hand. Number 2, 3, 4, 11,
6 12, 15 27, 28, I'm sorry, 29?
7 JUROR NUMBER 29: Yes.
8 THE COURT: 35, 38, 39, 44, 51, 58 and 61.
9 Thank you. For the record, all jurors are present.
10 EVIDENCE ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT
11 MR. SCHWARTZ: Your Honor, at this time
12 defendant would call Captain Robert Shramek.
13 THE COURT: Robert Shramek, please.
14 ROBERT LOUIS SHRAMEK,
19 THE COURT: You may begin when you are ready.
21 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
22 Q. Would you please state your name?
23 A. Robert Louis Shramek, Jr.
24 Q. Could you spell your name for her, unless you
25 already have?
879
1 A. I just did, sorry.
2 Q. Mr. Shramek, what do you do for a living?
3 A. I'm a firefighter here in Lincoln County,
4 District 1.
5 Q. How long have you been a firefighter?
6 A. I've been a career firefighter for 14 years. A
7 volunteer for 30 years.
8 Q. So 16 and then 14?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So the total is 30?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And what sort of things does a fireman, does a
13 Captain do? You are a Captain?
14 A. Yes, I'm a Captain. I'm in charge of my crew
15 on a day-to-day basis. I'm the first one on a structure fire
16 that gets off, goes around the building. I kind of lead my
17 guys on any scene, medical or fire.
18 Q. So you just don't go to fires?
19 A. No. We have medical. We have car wrecks, haz
20 mat, a whole array of things.
21 Q. And how much training did you receive and what
22 sort of training of these types of things?
23 A. To start out being a firefighter we had 260
24 hours of training and then I continue about 200 hours every
25 year of officer trainings and other, on daily trainings.

880
1 Q. Would that be medical, haz mat, fire?
2 A. Medical, haz mat, fire, yes. We get trained by
3 medical through our fire or our ambulance district here in
4 Troy.
5 Q. Lets me direct your attention to the late
6 evening, early morning hours of December 27th, 2011, about
7 two years ago. Did you receive a call?
8 A. Yes, we did.
9 Q. And what was your, what was the nature of that
10 call?
11 A. It was for -- I'm not exactly sure. I was told
12 it was a medical call. They said it was an unknown
13 situation. Said it was a possible stabbing, if I recall.
14 Q. Do you recall the address?
15 A. It was off of Waterbrook. I believe Sumac
16 Drive, but not the exact address.
17 Q. Does 130 Sumac sound correct?
18 A. That sounds correct.
19 Q. Did you proceed to that address?
20 A. We proceeded to go near the address to stage
21 until law enforcement arrived.
22 Q. What does "staging" mean?
23 A. We stopped before the scene until law
24 enforcement gets on scene to advise us the scene is secure;
25 that there's no danger for us to continue.

881
1 Q. Essentially, that it's safe to go inside?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And did you?
4 A. After we staged approximately three minutes,
5 yes, we did. One County Deputy arrived on the scene prior to
6 us.
7 Q. All right. Other than that Deputy, you were
8 the second on the scene?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And who was the first firefighter to go in?
11 A. That was myself.
12 Q. All right. What did you see once you went in?
13 A. When I went up to the front door, I asked the
14 Deputy if it was secure and he said "yes". The front door
15 was already opened.
16 I walked through the front, a little entryway,
17 and you entered into the living room, and then there I found
18 a female laying on the ground.
19 Q. Prior to entering, did you see anyone outside?
20 A. Yes. There was -- the Deputy was to the right
21 of the door and there was another male subject that had his
22 hands kind of over his face sitting there on a bench.
23 Q. Would you recognize that male?
24 A. No, I just seen his hands. It was just like
25 this.
882
1 Q. The motion you are making is your hands over
2 your face?
3 A. Hands over my face, correct.
4 Q. Then when you went inside, you saw this person
5 lying on the ground?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What did you notice, specifically, about the
8 person?
9 A. There was an object that was sticking out of
10 her neck.
11 Q. Was that a knife?
12 A. That's what it appeared to us, yes.
13 Q. All right. Did you touch this individual?
14 A. Yes. We went in and we wanted to verify if she
15 was breathing or not. I went to check for a brachial pulse
16 on her upper arm, and when I did, she was cold to the touch.
17 When I tried to move her arm, her whole arm
18 moved.
19 Q. What would that mean to you as a firefighter
20 for 30 years?
21 A. That she had been there for some time and that
22 rigor mortis had started to set in.
23 Q. Did you notice anything specific with the,
24 regarding the blood?
25 A. When I went in the front, the entryway, there's

883
1 a hallway that kind of went to the right. There was a spot
2 of something, approximately the size of a basketball there
3 and I don't know what that was, but then near the body there
4 was blood kind of on her right side, right there on the
5 ground and then some out have her mouth.
6 Q. Did you notice the condition of the blood?
7 A. It was set up. It was coagulated, I guess you
8 would call it.
9 Q. What does that mean in layman's terms?
10 A. The blood was cold. It had been there for some
11 time.
12 Q. All right. And what time did you arrive?
13 A. Somewhere around 9:30 p.m. In that area.
14 Q. Potentially, it could have been a little bit
15 later?
16 A. It could have been. I don't recall.
17 Q. You don't recall the exact times?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. You are just going from memory?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. At the time you arrived, what you think is
22 around 9:30, if I said it was 9:50, would that --
23 A. That would be close, yes.
24 Q. Fair enough.
25 A. It was before 10 p.m.

884
1 Q. Before 10 p.m.?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You noticed blood was coagulated and the body
4 was stiff and cold to the touch?
5 A. Yes. Yes.
7 THE COURT: State?
8 MR. HICKS: Thank you.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. HICKS:
11 Q. Good morning,
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. Your position that you hold doesn't require you
14 to hold any kind of medical degrees or medical training, does
15 it?
16 A. We are EMTs. We are not a paramedic, but we
17 are EMTs that we are required to have.
18 Q. Right. I understand that, but I mean as far as
19 no formal medical training?
20 A. No. Like doctoring, no.
21 Q. No trick question here. Basically, what you
22 are testifying here today is about, based upon your personal
23 experience because you have responded to situations where
24 people, you found people who are dead, correct?
885
1 Q. Nothing wrong with that. I mean, this is based
2 upon your experience in life and as a firefighter; is that
3 correct?
5 Q. Now when you walked in the house, were the
6 lights on or off when you got there?
7 A. The living room light was on.
8 Q. The living room light was on?
9 A. I don't know about the hallway light.
10 Q. What about the kitchen light?
11 A. I'm not for sure.
12 Q. Now when you got there, the door was open,
13 right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Because there was people already there?
16 A. There was one Deputy plus another individual
17 there, yes.
18 Q. But the door was standing open, right?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. In a situation like this where you have got
21 firemen, EMTs, police coming, it's typical for this door to
22 stand open and people are coming in and out, correct?
23 A. I would say typically, usually the door is
24 closed.
25 Q. That door was opened?

886
1 A. That door was open, correct.
2 Q. When you walked into the house, you only had to
3 take two or three steps into the living room, right?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. When you did that, that's when you immediately
6 noticed a lady lying there on the floor?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. All right. And I heard you testify and you
9 said immediately what you noticed was there was an object, a
10 knife sticking out of her neck?
11 A. Uh-huh.
12 Q. That wasn't difficult to see, correct?
13 A. That was not difficult to see, no.
14 Q. I mean that was something that, of all of
15 everything, that's what you noticed, correct?
16 A. Yeah. That's what I pinpointed on, yes.
17 Q. Yes. When you looked at that, did the thought
18 even cross your mind, this lady could have committed suicide?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Okay. You've seen suicides before, correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you've seen things that aren't suicide,
23 right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And when you saw this, you weren't thinking

887
1 suicide, were you?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Okay. Now I understand that you have got to
4 then touch the body to make sure possibly if she's still
5 alive, correct?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. It's my understanding that you moved her arm?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And it was that moving her arm slightly and
10 trying to check for her pulse that she was cold to the touch?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And that based upon your experience, you
13 believe that there was at least maybe the onset of rigor
14 mortis?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And again, you are not medically trained but
17 it's your understanding that rigor mortis can begin to set up
18 within, at least can begin to set in within a couple hours,
19 correct?
20 A. A couple hours, correct.
21 Q. All right. And you got there at 9:50?
22 A. Like I said, I'm not exactly sure. I know it
23 was after 9 o'clock, before 10:00.
24 Q. Okay.
25 MR. HICKS: I don't have any further questions.

888
1 Thank you.
3 MR. SCHWARTZ: No further questions.
5 MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Shramek. You are
7 released.
8 Call your next witness.
9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Michael Corbin.
10 THE COURT: Michael Corbin?
12 THE COURT: Michael Corbin, if you would step
13 forward and raise your right hand to be sworn by the Clerk.
14 MICHAEL CORBIN,
19 THE COURT: You may proceed when you are ready.
20 MR. SCHWARTZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
22 BY MR. SCHWARTZ:
23 Q. Would you state your name?
24 A. Michael Corbin.
25 Q. Mr. Corbin, how old are you?

889
1 A. I'm 41.
2 Q. What do you do for a living?
3 A. I'm a signmaker.
4 Q. All right. Is it your own company or do you
5 work for a company?
6 A. No, I work for a company.
7 Q. Okay. Do you know Russell Faria?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How do you know Russell?
10 A. A friend that I met through another mutual
11 friend. We have been playing games for maybe 15 years.
12 Q. All right. Who would that friend be?
13 A. Richard May.
14 Q. All right. When you say "playing games for 15
15 years", what do you mean "playing games"?
16 A. War games, card games, board games. Games.
17 Q. All right. Do these games have names?
18 A. Yes. I've got War Hammer, Role Master,
19 Talisman. There's a few names.
20 Q. You have been doing this for how long?
21 A. I personally have been playing games since
22 grade school.
23 Q. All right. Well, how long have you known
24 Russell?
25 A. That we played together?

890
1 Q. Yes.
2 A. About a year as of the time he had been
3 arrested.
4 Q. Do you see Russell in the Courtroom?
5 A. Oh, yeah. Sorry.
6 Q. Have you seen Russell since December 27th of
7 2011?
8 A. Just on television.
9 Q. Have you talked to Russell since 2011?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Now what nights did you play the games that you
12 played?
13 A. It originally started on a Monday night. Then
14 there was a scheduling conflict. Somebody ended up having to
15 work Monday night, so we changed it to Tuesday nights.
16 Q. All right. When Russ joined your group, who
17 was in that group?
18 A. When he first started playing, it was myself,
19 my girlfriend, Angelia Hulion, and our friend, Richard May,
20 along with Russell.
21 Q. And then Russell. Angelia, how long have you
22 been with her?
23 A. I've been with her 20 years.
24 Q. Do you guys have children?
25 A. Yes.
891
1 Q. You're not married?
2 A. No.
3 Q. How old is your child?
4 A. He's 13.
5 Q. Okay. Interesting age, isn't it?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All right. So you play these games on Tuesday
8 night?
9 A. Yeah, typically.
10 Q. Was it every Tuesday?
11 A. Not always. If somebody had a scheduling
12 conflict, they would end up getting in touch with me and then
13 I inform the rest of the group we won't be playing but we
14 might watch a movie instead.
15 Q. Why wouldn't you play if somebody had a
16 scheduling conflict?
17 A. The game really requires continuity. We'd been
18 playing the Role Master game, kind of a storytelling game.
19 If somebody doesn't show up, much harder to try and invent a
20 reason why that person wouldn't be there. We just postpone
21 the game.
22 Q. Could you explain that a little further?
23 A. Yeah, it's a role playing game that people that
24 play the game take on the roles of any one of a number of
25 different characters, as if from a book.

892
1 Q. For example, what was Angelia's character?
2 A. Angelia was an elf investigator. Essentially,
3 just a detective-type of character.
4 Q. Do you remember Russell's character?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What was his character?
7 A. His character was a monk.
8 q. All right. Do these characters, is there
9 violence involved in the game?
10 A. Well, it's a storytelling game so there's
11 abstract violence but, you know, nothing more than would be
12 figured out with rolling a couple of dice.
13 Q. So is it a board game?
14 A. There was a board to it, yes. We have a board,
15 pieces and dice and the board I can erase and redraw,
16 Whatever needs to be drawn on it.
17 Q. What was your character?
18 A. I have none. I run the game. I come up with
19 the scenarios. Essentially, like an author of a book.
20 Q. Okay. So it -- correct me if I'm wrong, but if
21 somebody is not there, it would be like writing a book
22 without them being present?
23 A. It would be like writing a book without one of
24 the main characters being present, correct.
25 Q. Okay. Do you remember Marshall's character?

893
1 A. At that time, no, but he's gone through a few
2 characters since he first started playing. He had just
3 started playing very recently at that point in time.
4 Q. Who else was playing at that point in time?
5 A. It was -- well, I was running the game. My
6 girlfriend, Angelia, was playing. Brandon Sweeney, Marshall,
7 Rich and Russell.
8 Q. Okay. What was Brandon's character, if you
9 recall?
10 A. You know, it's hard to say because, again, him
11 and Marshall have changed characters a few times. I can't
12 say exactly.
13 Q. All right. And you typically play, or you
14 always played on Tuesday nights?
15 A. Yeah. Well, like I said, originally we had
16 started on a Monday but there was scheduling conflicts where
17 somebody had to work and so we changed it over to Tuesday
18 about a year into it.
19 Q. Where does this game take place?
20 A. At my house.
21 Q. Where do you live?
22 A. I live in O'Fallon.
23 Q. Okay. And so everybody would come to your
24 house. Now did you guys drink during these games?
25 A. Some of the people did. I never did.

894
1 Honestly, I would have a hard time keeping track of the game
2 if I drank, so I always had coffee.
3 Q. You did drink. You just didn't drink alcohol?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Sometimes was marijuana smoked?
6 A. Occasionally, yeah.
7 Q. All right. Let's go to December 27th. What
8 was the time that everyone usually arrived? What was the
9 time the game would begin?
10 A. Standard procedure, there would have been
11 everybody shows up around 6 o'clock and the game usually
12 broke around 9:00.
13 Q. All right. December 27th, 2011, there was a
14 game that night?
15 A. No, we did not play. There was a game
16 originally scheduled for that night, but our friend, Richard
17 May, had to work. So I ended up texting everybody telling
18 them there would be no game. You are more than free to come
19 over and watch a movie.
20 Q. And did people come over?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Who came over?
23 A. Russell. He showed up first. And Brandon and
24 Marshall showed up probably within five minutes.
25 Q. Where was Angelia?

895
1 A. She's there. We live together.
2 Q. Okay. What did you guys do that night?
3 A. We ended up watching two movies.
4 Q. What time did Russell show up, if you recall?
5 A. Between 6:00 and 6:15, I would say.
6 Q. All right. Did you have a specific
7 recollection or that is your best guess?
8 A. That's my best guess. I don't wear a wrist
9 watch. I didn't look at the clock.
10 Q. All right. And you watched a movie, you said?
11 A. Two movies.
12 Q. What did you watch?
13 A. We watched "The New Conan", then we watched a
14 movie called "The Road" after that, or at least we started
15 it. I believe everybody ended up leaving before "The Road"
16 had finished.
17 Q. Was "The New Conan" a good movie?
18 A. I don't know if I would say it was an Academy
19 Award Winner or anything, but I was entertained.
20 Q. How about "The Road"?
21 A. Very slow.
22 Q. Where did you guys watch it? In your living
23 room?
24 A. Yeah, in my living room.
25 Q. All right. Do you recall, do you recall what

896
1 Russell was wearing?
2 A. You know, really, I do not recall. I believe
3 he was wearing a hat, but he always wore a hat so that would
4 wouldn't be unusual.
5 Q. Do you recall where people were sitting?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Where were people sitting?
8 A. I was sitting to the furthest left on my couch.
9 My girlfriend, Angelia, was sitting next to me on the right.
10 Next to her I believe it was Brandon Sweeney,
11 and then a friend of ours, Marshall, had pulled a chair from
12 our dining room to sit next to the couch and then at the end
13 of the line was Russell sitting in a leather chair.
14 Q. So who was on the couch?
15 A. Me, Angelia and Brandon.
16 Q. Was there food? Do you guys eat during these
17 meetings?
18 A. I don't think there was any food, no.
19 Q. Do you guys generally eat during these
20 evenings?
21 A. Occasionally, I might pop popcorn or somebody
22 might bring chips or something.
23 Q. But not dinner?
24 A. Oh, no. No.
25 Q. Was there much conversation that night?

897
1 A. Not really. I had actually started the movie
2 before anybody showed up, and so there was maybe a
3 paragraph's worth of conversation the entire night.
4 Q. Do you recall any specifics?
5 A. Yeah. Really the only thing that I recall is
6 Russell had said he had had a discussion with Betsy about his
7 motorcycle and he was going to sell it and buy his late
8 uncle's motorcycle, I believe.
9 Q. All right. Any other conversation you recall?
10 A. Nothing. Nothing really. Maybe some comments
11 about the movie but nothing I remember.
12 Q. Do you recall if -- you live there. Your phone
13 is in there. Do other people bring their cell phones?
14 A. I would assume everybody does. Most people do
15 nowadays, so yes.
16 Q. Do you guys typically have conversations on
17 your phones?
18 A. People have. If they have gotten a phone call
19 in the past, there have been people who have taken calls or
20 texts.
21 Q. Do you recall if Russell received any calls
22 that night?
23 A. I heard his phone go off. I don't know if it
24 was a call or a text message, but I do recall his phone going
25 off. He has a very distinctive ringtone.

898
1 Q. What is his ringtone?
2 A. It's the Imperial March from Star Wars.
3 Q. I'm unfamiliar with that.
4 A. It's very distinctive, yes.
5 Q. All right. At what point did people leave?
6 A. Right around 9 o'clock. That was the general
7 time when the game usually let up. Since we weren't doing
8 anything but watching movies that night, the second movie was
9 really kind of slow and boring. Everybody ended up leaving
10 around 9 o'clock.
11 Q. Did anybody leave from the time they arrived at
12 6:00 to 6:15 and 9 o'clock?
13 A. No. Absolutely not.
14 Q. You are 100 percent certain of that?
15 A. I am positive of that. We all sat within eight
16 foot of each other the entire evening except if one of us got
17 up to go to the restroom.
18 Q. Did Russell ever leave that night prior to 9
19 o'clock?
20 A. Oh, absolutely not.
21 Q. Did you see Russell socially outside of this
22 game?
23 A. Occasionally, I would see him on a weekend if
24 he would come over to an MMA fight party that a buddy of ours
25 would have.
899
1 Q. Other than that, have you ever been to his
2 house in Troy?
3 A. No. No. In fact, prior to hearing everything
4 on the news, I didn't even know where he lived. I knew he
5 lived out west.
6 Q. So you don't know how far away his house was or
7 any of that?
8 A. No. No idea.
9 Q. All right. Now were you contacted the next day
10 by law enforcement?
11 A. Yes. Actually, they showed up, sheesh, it was
12 probably about 6 o'clock that morning. I was still in my
13 bathrobe.
14 Q. Did they talk to you about Russell's
15 whereabouts and your game the night before?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you tell them what you were talking about
18 here today?
19 A. Yes. Although, quite honestly, at first I
20 thought Russell had been hurt in a car accident and, in fact,
21 I even asked them if Russell was okay.
22 Q. Okay. And were you interviewed again by the
23 police?
24 A. Yes. I believe it was the morning of New
25 Year's Eve.
900
1 Q. That weekend?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. That Saturday?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. That particular -- let's go first. The first
6 interview, were you interviewed by yourself the next morning?
7 A. No. The police showed up to our house and
8 Angie and I were still getting ready for work, still in my
9 bathrobe, and they talked to us there for, I would say,
10 approximately 15, 20 minutes.
11 Q. Okay. And did you know they were coming?
12 A. No. No.
13 Q. All right. Did you know they were coming back
14 that Saturday?
15 A. No. No idea.
16 Q. That Saturday, when you spoke with them, do you
17 know if that interview was recorded?
18 A. I would assume so, though I saw no cameras or
19 anything in the room that I was in.
20 Q. And were you alone in the room with the police
21 when you made that, when you gave them this statement?
22 A. Yes. Although they left the room a number of
23 times and came back and talked to me some more. I think it
24 was a process that took about two hours.
25 Q. But you were separated from Brandon, Marshall?

901
1 A. Oh, yeah. Everybody was separate.
2 Q. Did you tell the police what you are telling
3 this jury here today?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. December 27th, 2011, between the hours of 6 and
6 9 o'clock, where was Russell Faria?
7 A. He was at my house.
8 Q. No doubt about that?
9 A. No doubt about it.
10 Q. Absolutely certain?
11 A. I'm positive. One hundred percent.
12 Q. And you told the police that the next morning?
13 A. I told them that the next morning and every
14 time that I've talked to them since.
16 THE COURT: State.
18 BY MR. HICKS:
19 Q. Good morning, Mr. Corbin.
20 A. Hello.
21 Q. You met the defendant, I guess it was about 17
22 years ago today?
23 A. Today, correct.
24 Q. But from this incident, it was about 15 years
25 before that?
902
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You met him through a mutual friend, Richard
3 May, correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. And about six years previous to this event is
6 when, on a routine basis, and what I mean by "routine", maybe
7 every couple of weeks, you started playing games with Russell
8 Faria; is that correct?
9 A. Yeah. I would think it's probably in the four-
10 to six-year range. I didn't really keep track of when we
11 started playing our games together.
12 Q. So you had known him for 15 years when this had
13 happened and began to see him almost on a weekly basis when
14 you began playing this game with him?
15 A. Yeah, for a couple, three hours once a week.
16 Q. Right. And every once in a while, if there was
17 a fight on the weekend or something and you guys wanted to
18 get together, there may be weeks where you got together a
19 second time?
20 A. Occasionally, although he didn't come out to
21 the MMA parties very much so.
22 Q. I understand. I believe you described your
23 game group as kind of containing a core of you, Rich, Angie
24 and Russ, meaning those are the players?
25 A. We were the ones that started the game

903
1 originally, correct.
2 Q. Correct. And then in the last, oh, six months
3 to two years prior to this event is when Marshall Bach and
4 Brandon Sweeney had joined the game, correct?
5 A. That's correct. Brandon had joined first and
6 then Marshall had just recently joined prior to this.
7 Q. Although there were many games that you guys
8 would play around this time period, primarily what you guys
9 were getting together to play on Tuesday nights was this role
10 playing game known as Role Master, correct?
12 Q. I'm not going to delve too far into it, but you
13 had been playing Role Master for a few years, correct?
14 A. With them, yes. I had also played Role Master
15 back in middle school and probably high school, as well.
16 I've been playing games for a long time.
17 Q. So middle school, 13, 14 years of age. You
18 said you are 41, so you've --
19 A. Right.
20 Q. -- been playing?
21 A. Since the mid-80s.
22 Q. All right. Your role in this game was what you
23 call Role Master, right?
24 A. I'm a referee. That's what the game refers to
25 the person that presents the story.

904
1 Q. All right. So you are presenting the story.
2 You have got to kind of have somebody who is giving the other
3 players direction?
4 A. I am the person that does that, correct.
5 Q. All right. So you don't have a character?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Okay. And in order to do this, to do this
8 game, you have got to -- you've got to be imaginative, right?
9 A. Somewhat.
10 Q. I mean, I can't imagine -- what do we do next?
11 A. You have got to be able to think on the fly.
12 Q. Right. You are thinking on the fly. You're
13 trying to come up with story lines, adventures, I think you
14 used the term "missions"?
15 A. Yes, that would be one way to look at them.
16 I usually refer to them as adventures.
17 Q. Adventures or missions where a particular
18 character has to go accomplish something?
19 A. Usually it's the entire group working together.
20 Q. But you -- sometimes a character can be written
21 out of the story, correct?
22 A. Could be. It's just difficult to do because
23 there's no continuity. Like I say, it would be like writing
24 a book and suddenly the, one of the main characters
25 disappears for no known reason.

905
1 Q. I understand. So what I'm getting at -- for
2 instance, like since December 27th of 2011, the defendant
3 Russell Faria has not been involved in your game. You said
4 you haven't seen him since then?
6 Q. Did you continue playing the game?
7 A. Yes. We wrote his character out.
8 Q. With the same players?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And then you had to write his character out,
11 right?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. I think you mentioned in the deposition that
14 you kind of just, he just kind of wanders off into the woods,
15 his character?
16 A. Yeah, his character played a monk that was a
17 pacifist anyway, so he just kind of wandered off into the
18 woods and nobody ever heard from him again.
19 Q. He was a pacifist?
20 A. Yes, his character -- relatively speaking, yes.
21 He was pretty peaceful, monk-type character.
22 Q. I thought you told me in the deposition he was
23 a martial arts expert?
24 A. He did have those skills, but he didn't use any
25 weapons, typically tried to defuse situations in the game so.

906
1 Q. Okay. These missions or adventures that you
2 would have these different characters do, --
3 A. Yeah.
4 Q. I think I asked you in the deposition about the
5 types of missions that would go on?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. And you have been doing this a long time?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. You are familiar with Dungeons and Dragons?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you heard the name "Magic: The
12 Gathering"?
13 A. It's a card game, I believe.
14 Q. It's an offshoot. I believe it's from the same
15 makers of Dungeons and Dragons?
16 A. It may be. I don't really know.
17 Q. Have you heard of the role playing game called
18 "Vampire"?
19 A. Yes, I've heard of that game.
20 Q. Or "Conan the Barbarian"?
21 A. I believe there is a Conan game, but I don't
22 know much about it.
23 Q. I understand you don't know about that. When I
24 talk about those types of games, I think you said in your
25 deposition those are what you would call "evil-oriented"

907
1 games?
2 A. That, I don't know about. "Magic" is a card
3 game. I know that. "Conan" I really don't know anything
4 about. I would assume it's about the movie or the series of
5 books written years ago.
6 Q. Right. Do you remember in the deposition
7 because I brought this up, and the only reason I brought it
8 up is just because it just so happened that that night on the
9 27th, you said you guys were watching the movie "Conan the
10 Barbarian"?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I asked you about if you had heard about the
13 game?
14 A. I knew about the game, but it had nothing to do
15 with why we were watching it. I had just gotten the movie.
16 Q. I understand. Then, in that same deposition
17 I'm asking you, do you remember me saying, well, when I asked
18 you about "Conan the Barbarian", your response was being, oh,
19 well, we don't play those types of games?
20 A. Actually, you had asked me about missions that
21 involved kidnapping people, and I stated that no, we don't
22 have any kind of ill will in any of the games.
23 Typically, I run a heroic-type game where these
24 are good guys trying to defeat bad guys.
25 Q. There are non-heroic-type role playing games?

908
1 A. There are people that do that, but I think
2 that's kind of an unhealthy thing.
3 Q. I think that's what you said before. You
4 didn't like the psyche of that?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. Somehow for you, that's different from just
7 watching the movie "Conan the Barbarian"?
8 A. I guess watching the movie is much more passive
9 type of activity.
10 Q. Rather than to actually become the character?
11 A. Than to actually play out or act out -- I mean,
12 you know, we don't dress up or anything. This is just a
13 board, pieces of paper, dice.
14 Q. Okay. And you had been playing these, your
15 games with Russ for several years?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And known him for about 15?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. All right. And it's my understanding that's
20 primarily what you guys did together, although every once in
21 a while you would do something else socially?
23 Q. Ever been on a canoe trip with him?
24 A. No.
25 Q. So it was mostly just watching, maybe getting

909
1 together for a fight or something else?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Barbeques?
4 A. You know, honestly I don't know if I ever had a
5 barbecue with Russ.
6 Q. I want to ask you, do you recall, I guess it
7 was this last summer when I took your deposition?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. To find out what, you know, more about this
10 night.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I guess before we go into that, I understand
13 the first time you were ever interviewed was on the 28th,
14 that morning, early morning hours, and the police came by
15 your house and they talked to both you and your wife,
16 correct? Well, Angie?
17 A. Girlfriend. We're common-law married.
18 Q. Your common-law wife?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. And they are talking to you, and they are just
21 trying to get some basic information about was Russ there
22 last that night?
23 A. Right. That's what I gathered. They were
24 writing down anything that I saw.
25 Q. Right. It wasn't like they sat you down

910
1 separately and were trying to interrogate you in any way?
3 Q. Just trying to get some basic information from
4 you?
6 Q. You said, I think your characterized it as
7 being at the most a 20-minute visit?
8 A. Yes. They weren't there very long. Honestly,
9 I would have been late to work if they had stayed much
10 longer.
11 Q. Fair enough. Then it is a few days later, the
12 morning of New Year's Eve, when they came back?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. They wanted to -- they didn't want to call it a
15 reinterview, but they wanted to talk to you again?
16 A. I looked at that as being the official
17 interview.
18 Q. That's what I was getting at. You didn't feel
19 like you were being browbeaten or anything?
20 A. No. I halfway expected something like this
21 because of the severity of the charges so.
22 Q. Sure. So you went down to the police station,
23 you and --
24 A. They separated us and brought us separately to
25 the police station.

911
1 Q. And that's where that's different from the
2 first interview is them bring you down there?
4 Q. They take you to the police station and talk to
5 you separately?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. And then it was really almost a year and a half
8 later, correct, that just this last summer that you sat down
9 and did this deposition, correct?
11 Q. So it had been almost 18 months when you
12 finally sat down under oath and --
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. -- talked about what had happened that night,
15 correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Do you remember in that deposition, I
18 asked you that when Russ showed up, when the defendant showed
19 up, if he had anything with him? Do you remember me asking
20 you that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. Do you remember telling me that he had
23 actually brought, what you remembered him bringing was his
24 cell phone?
25 A. Yes. I know he had his cell phone because it

912
1 did go off once that night.
2 Q. But you didn't recall him bringing anything
3 else?
4 A. Not that I'm aware of, no.
5 Q. I'm not saying that he -- I'm just saying what
6 your testimony was, I don't remember him bringing anything
7 else. I know he brought his cell phone.
8 A. Well, it was wintertime, so I'm assuming he
9 probably wore a coat as well but.
10 Q. I'm talking about drinks, food?
11 A. Not that I know of.
12 Q. Not that you could recall?
13 A. No.
14 Q. But you did recall him bringing his cell phone?
15 A. I heard it go off.
16 Q. You said that you knew this because you heard
17 it go off?
18 A. Very distinctive.
19 Q. And did you remember, do you remember as you
20 sit here today, did it go off during the "Conan" movie or the
21 second boring movie, "The Road"?
22 A. I'm going to think it went off during "The
23 Road".
24 Q. You think it was in "The Road"?
25 A. I think was in the latter half of the evening.

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Electronically Filed - EASTERN DISTRICT CT OF APPEALS - July 23, 2014 - 07:34 PM

1 IN THE MISSOURI COURT OF APPEALS

5 vs. ) ED No. 100964

9 IN THE LINCOLN COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI

13 vs. ) Cause No. 12L6-CR001312

22 Ms. Leah Askey Attorneys for the Plaintiff

2 a witness, having been duly sworn by the Circuit Clerk to

5 of Missouri, testifies as follows:

6 MS. ASKEY: Thank you, sir. If you would

7 please have a seat at the witness stand.

8 May it please the Court?

9 THE COURT: You may inquire when you are ready.

12 Q. Please state your name for the record.

14 Q. And Mr. Smallwood, where are you employed?

15 A. I am employed at the St. Charles County

16 Sheriff's Department in St. Charles, Missouri.

17 Q. And what are your duties there?

18 A. I am a crime scene investigator. As a crime

19 scene investigator, our jobs are to respond to crime scenes

20 and document and collect evidence, also process any items

21 that are submitted to our office for latent print evidence

22 and sometimes some biological evidence.

23 And another duty of mine is latent print

24 examination in our office that any latent prints submitted by

25 either our officers, investigators or other agencies will get

1 examined for comparison and possible AFIS, if needed.

2 Q. At some point -- strike that.

3 What's the protocol with examining latent

5 A. Latent, let me -- shall I go through some

7 Q. Well, they've heard a lot about it. Well,

8 briefly if you want to.

9 A. Latent prints, they will be collected on crime

10 scenes or in a laboratory. Those latents, once they're

11 collected, they will be documented on a lift back card or the

12 item itself is chemically processed. They'll be submitted

13 for analysis to us.

14 We use a methodology called ACE-V, which will

15 be analyzed, determined if it is the latent print that was

16 submitted, if it has sufficient quality and quantity of

18 If it does, we would call it, at that point, of

19 value. If it is of value for identification, we will then

20 move on to any comparisons, to any knowns that have been

22 If no knowns are submitted, we will then enter

24 database that might give us a match on it and, ultimately,

25 you do the analysis, the comparison. Then you do an

1 evaluation and determine if it is a match or excluded.

2 And at the end of it, there's a verification

3 step where the original examiner came to their conclusion,

4 finishes up with their case file, that file is then passed to

5 a time second examiner who then conducts another examination

6 again to get a -- basically it's a checks and balances to

7 make sure we're coming up with a proper answer.

8 Q. And were you working as a latent print examiner

11 Q. Did you receive some latent lift backs from CSI

12 Tiffany Fischer from 130 Sumac in Troy, Missouri?

13 A. I did not receive them from Fischer.

14 Q. Who did you receive them from?

15 A. I received them from Investigator Hall.

16 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked

17 as State's Exhibit 22. Do you recognize these?

18 A. Yes. These, yes I do.

19 Q. Okay. And are you privy to -- strike that.