Disclaimer

About researchers and whistleblowers :

We, Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, do not necessarily agree with or endorse all of the views
presented here. What Camelot is about is the investigation into the mysteries that surround
us. We are all, in a sense, investigators of our world. And while we, as individuals, may not
agree with everything presented on our site, we fully support freedom of thought and speech
as well as the Quest for truth.
31 December 2008

Laura knight-jadczyk - The Cassiopaeans

Laura Knight-Jadczyk | The Cassiopaeans

Los Angeles, April 2010 | .mp3 | .mov

I went to France in February to interview Laura Knight-Jadczyk. She lives in an 18th century
French chateau with her extended family. She and her company--both operate out of this
splendid but ancient building. Heating 10 foot ceilings is not an option so in winter, Laura and
her crew gather in the old fashioned kitchen around the wood burning stove to eat and share
stories.

We were privileged to be guests there for a couple of days during the filming of this
fascinating interview. Laura is a brilliant researcher into the nature of consciousness, the
matrix and the underlying psychology of pathology. In addition, she has created a unique
approach that she calls "critical channeling" to a recurring telepathic contact with an ET group
who call themselves the Cassiopaeans who said to her "we are you in the future."

Using a Ouija board (also known as a spirit board) and a small group of people, she made
contact and then in a series of controlled experiments verified the level of material she was
receiving (whether her source could be trusted) by asking questions then researching the
answers and checking on the veracity and intention of the source in predicting future events...
In touch with this source for roughly 16 years, she and a small group of people have
accumulated a vast amount of information. She has never stopped questioning or researching
what she is getting.

Laura's intelligence is tenacious and uncompromising. Her inquiry into the supernatural, past
lives, and the unknown has taken her down many roads. Along the way, she became a
hypnotist, an exorcist and a highly perceptive chronicler of what it means to be human.

Highly recommended:
Thomas French article "The Exorcist", St. Petersburg Times,

Websites:
Cassiopaean Experiment
Sott.net
Laura's new breathing and meditation video
Interview TRANSCRIPT
Laura Knight-Jadczyk | The Cassiopaeans

Los Angeles, April 2010 | .mp3 | .mov

KERRY CASSIDY (KC): So Laura, it is wonderful to be here at your French chateau.

I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot Productions and we are here with Laura Knight-Jadczyk
and she’s got a huge body of work that I’m amazed by. You’re intellectually very astute;
you’re an amazing researcher. You’re also a wonderful channel, if you want to call yourself a
channel, kind of a loose term.

LAURA KNIGHT-JADCZYK (LKJ): I avoid that term.

KC: Okay, fine. I’ve studied your work and I’m really impressed.

LKJ: Thank you.

KC: And that’s why we’re here today, because we want to hear more about it. I want to
introduce you to the world that doesn’t know about you. I want them to learn what you’re
really about.

Give your own introduction of yourself.

LKJ: Well, I guess it depends on the individual. Some people are very happy to be asked to talk
about themselves and I don’t really like to talk about myself that much because I’ve spent
most of my life putting the attention on other people.

I guess that’s why we live here as we do, rather privately, so that I can work because I work
best when I’m not disturbed by, you know, unforeseen events. If my family is around me and
happy, then I’m happy and I work well, so that’s how I live, with my family, so that I can
concentrate on my work.

So, right away, I didn’t say anything about myself, did I?

KC: No, but you’re doing very well anyway because you’re giving us a little background to who
you really are and what you’re motivated by.

What would be great is to hear a little bit about your intellectual history because you’re an
amazing writer and you’re very clear. You’re very clear in the way you think. That’s what I’ve
gathered from reading your work and I think that that’s a special skill.

And so maybe you could talk about just the very basics, because some people out there are
going to want to know. Did you graduate from college? You know, that kind of thing.

LKJ: No, I didn’t graduate from college. I had children instead and that’s a fairly common story
for many very bright, intelligent women who are brought up to take care of other people –
they have children or they have families. We were taught that that’s the most important thing
for a woman – my generation was taught that – and when the family comes along, everything
else gets put aside.

It was rather difficult for me because I did have a very powerful curiosity. It’s been described
by other people as an epic curiosity and I would say that if anything describes me, it’s
curiosity. I’m a walking question-mark. I literally want to know everything, and I know that it’s
impossible to know everything, but I want to grab everything I can as long as I’m alive.

I did go to college. I was kind of a professional student for two or three years. But then, like I
said, I had a baby and that was the end of my college career, but it wasn’t the end of my
intellectual pursuits because I had developed the habit as a very young child of reading
approximately an entire book every day.

That really started after I had been in seventh grade when I was, what, 13 years old? We had a
teacher who taught us to speed-read, which was a very clever thing. He had a machine that
he brought into class and taught everybody to speed-read. I thought this was the greatest
thing since sliced bread because I can read very, very fast, and I was blessed with a
photographic memory so that I could not only read but I could remember everything I read.

KC: Mm hm.

LKJ: This was very handy at test time because I could pull everything out of my memory for
taking tests.

So, you know, I was very good at taking tests but I was really bad at doing homework,
because, for me, homework was just drudgery. Why should I sit there and write down for
somebody else, you know, to prove that I have done this busy-work? It didn’t interest me. I
mean, I had read the book, I had the material in my head; I didn’t see any point in belaboring
it. I wanted to go to the next thing. So I didn’t turn in a lot of homework but I made A’s on all
my tests, so that kind of confused teachers who like things to be done by the book.

So I continued this habit all through the time my children were little, and as I’ve written, at the
point that I’d had my fourth child, I was bedridden. So not only did I pursue my habit of
reading as much as I possibly could, but I got into some other things because there was a lot
of stress in my life. So, I began practicing things like meditation and so on and so forth.

KC: And how old were you approximately during this time, when you started mediating?

LKJ: When I started meditating? Let’s see, my fourth child was born in 1985, so that would be
when I started meditating.

KC: Mm hm. And how did that go for you?

LKJ: Well, I had extraordinary results in a very short period of time – and that’s a whole other
story because we’ve developed a meditation, a breathing meditation program, based on the
technique that I developed more or less on my own, which is based on reading some material
about meditation.

It was a combination of meditative techniques and hypnotherapeutic techniques, because I

had also trained as a hypnotherapist.
KC: When did you train as a hypnotherapist?

LKJ: When I was going to college. I was, what, 21 years old?

KC: Oh, really. So, you had already decided to go in that direction.

LKJ: Yeah, because I wanted to know everything. One of the things I wanted to know was:
What goes on in the human mind? What makes people act the way they do? What makes
people think the way they do? Why is it that people say that they love something and then
they treat it so abominably? Why do people say “I’m a good person”, and act so bad? – All of
the contradictions of life. Because, you know, people say things but then you see in reality
that that’s not exactly what really happens.

And of course there is a religious impetus. I was brought up in a very religious family. We were
Methodist when I was growing up.

KC: Well, we actually want to go there slightly. I know that you had a time in which you were...
I don’t know if you want to call it kidnapped or something of that nature, by a family member?
I think someone related to you?

LKJ: Yes, stepfather.

KC: That seems to have…

LKJ: That was kind of the... Yeah, it was the trigger. I was 2, 2½, 3 years old and my mother
and my father had been divorced when I was very young, I would say, because they were
divorced before I was 2½ or 3.

My mother had remarried a man who was an ex-Navy man that she met in Orlando where she
was living and working at the time we were living there... a very definite whirlwind courtship
and I think it was because he danced so well. [laughs] My mother was a dancer.

And so he moved us to Jacksonville and it was in Jacksonville that he started behaving rather
erratically, to say the least... doing strange things. Like, she would come home and find him
huddled in a fetal position in the closet with his hands over his head and saying that
somebody was coming to get him, or something was going on.

He was extremely paranoid and my mother knew this wasn’t normal behaviour. And it got
worse, so there was a separation, and I, being a child... You know, in those days parents didn’t
really tell children what’s going on. It’s not like: Oh, you’re not supposed to talk to your
stepfather anymore, you know. Actually I liked him. He was kind of fun, he was entertaining. I
mean, he was good to me.

So, he had been showing me pictures of cars in a magazine and asked me, you know, he said
he wanted to get a new car and if he was going to get a new car, what color of car would I
want? And I said, yellow and black.

And so, several weeks later – and this was after he was gone – he drives up to the house in a
yellow and black convertible, and: Do you want to go for a ride? And since nobody had told me
I wasn’t supposed to speak to him or go anywhere with him, of course I’ll go. So I went for a
ride.

We went down a long drive through a lot of forest, came to a road that turned off into the
forest, drove down this long road and at the end of this road there was a clearing like a
perfectly square, well-mown clearing... you know, grass. And in the center of the clearing was
a small white clapboard house with a porch. It just looked like an ordinary... like a farmhouse,
even, except that there was nothing anywhere around this. I mean, it was smack in the middle
of this very large clearing that was very well manicured.

There were two men in khaki-looking uniforms and a woman in a white dress that were
standing on the porch. We drove up to the house and they said: Well, we’ve been waiting for
you, and welcomed me to come inside the house and sat me down at the dining room table. I
remember sitting at the dining room table, and they were asking me questions. I don’t
remember the questions.

Then one of them said: You must be very tired. You need to take a nap. I agreed, and they
took me into this room. There was a stainless steel baby bed [laughs] and they put me in this
stainless steel baby bed and gave me a bottle. And I’m thinking: I’m 2½, 3 years old, you
know. I didn’t think that, but I’m thinking: I’m too big for a bottle. But they gave me this bottle
and said: Here, no, it’s okay, you can have this. And so I started to drink this bottle because I
was hungry.

And that’s the last thing I remember until I was in the... I remember sitting in the car with my
stepfather and we were driving very fast through a lot of flashing lights, so it was like in the
city, and we were being chased by the police. He was trying to weave around to avoid capture
and going very fast and turning corners and so forth. He ended up... because apparently there
was another one that was coming around from the front and so he drove up on somebody’s
lawn and crashed into a palm tree, and I hit my face on the dashboard.

I remember the policeman coming and taking me out of the car, and then I remember the
policeman handing me over to my mother. And that’s basically what I remembered for most of
my life. Everything from the time I drank that bottle until I came to myself in this car was a
complete blank.

KC: And when did you start to recover those memories?

LKJ: Well, the first problem with something like that is – you know, we’re talking about the
memory of a 2½, 3-year-old child – is the child remembering. I understood this: Am I
remembering everything accurately?

And so, of course, I had to question my mother about it and she gave some details on what
had happened, though what is known from the outside is that as soon as she had discovered
that I was missing, she called my grandmother in Tampa. We were in Jacksonville.

She called my grandmother in Tampa. My grandmother called my grandfather who was in

Nassau. In fact, I don’t think he was in Nassau, he was on an outer island working on an
engineering job, and they sent a plane to pick him up from the outer island to Nassau. He flew
from Nassau to Tampa, got in his car, drove to Jacksonville – so at least two full days, possibly
three, had passed before he went to the police station with my mother.
My mother had gone to the police station and they had told her that because she was married
to this man and he was my legal stepfather, she couldn’t file any kind of kidnapping charge
against him because, you know, he was entitled to take me where he wanted to take me.

KC: Hm.

LKJ: So, when my grandfather got in there, he apparently was a little more forceful than my
mother and they began to take it seriously, which is why, when they spotted my stepfather
driving down the road with me in the car, they began to pursue. So, that’s kind of the back-
story.

KC: Do you know how many days went by?

LKJ: Well, my mother, when I finally questioned her, she didn’t really remember, she just said
it was “several days”. That’s what she said, so I figure it must have been two or three because
of the time that... It could have been three or four, because of the time it took for the
information to get to my grandfather. For him to get there, it had to have…

KC: Were they wealthy? I mean, you’re saying he flew from here to there and so on and so
forth.

LKJ: My grandparents were, you know, like middle-class people. He was a marine engineer. He
designed and supervised the building of ships. Before that he’d done bridges and dredges and
so forth. He was very well off.

KC: Was your stepfather employed at that time?

LKJ: That I can’t tell you. I don’t know. I don’t know.

KC: Did you ever see him in uniform?

LKJ: No, but that was a peculiar thing because after this event, according to my mother they
went to the police station to sign papers to press charges. When they got there, they found
that he had been taken into custody, that the Navy Department had showed up to take him
into custody because he belonged to them.

Later on, it was suggested that he worked for ONI, and I, of course, read a great deal about
the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people.

KC: Did you have brothers and sisters?

LKJ: I have one brother.

KC: Okay. And he wasn’t kidnapped?

LKJ: No.

KC: Interesting. And what is your... if you don’t mind my asking, are you Celtic?
LKJ: Well, I suppose.

KC: The reason, you know, there’s a basis for that. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Duncan
O’Finoian, the Super Soldier that we interviewed, but his background is Celtic and Native
American, and they were looking for... He was basically picked up as a child. His father worked
for the CIA. And so, what they seem to have done, especially back in the ’50s, was to target
the children of people that were related to the military Special Services.

LKJ: Well, I can tell you a little. My genealogy is up on the internet on my website. I got into
genealogy at one point pretty obsessively, you know, nine or ten hours a day for a year. [Kerry
laughs] And finally my husband said to me: When are you going to be satisfied? When you get
back to Adam? And then I realized I had been giving it way too much time!

I descended from the Pearces [pronounced Percy] of [unclear] fame. That’s an interesting
family. That’s also their…

KC: That’s an Illuminati name though, isn’t it?

LKJ: I don’t think so because the Percy family that now carries the name is not even a blood
relation to the original Pearces.

The Pearces spent a lot of time in opposition to the royal ruling families of England. Quite a
few ancestors ended their days in cages hanging from the outside of the castle walls. Their
castle, which of course no longer belongs to them... there is a family called Pearce that’s
there, you know, the Duke of Northumberland. It is the castle that they filmed the Harry Potter
films in, by the way.

KC: But you’re saying that’s not your family…?

LKJ: No, the people who are currently carrying the name aren’t the Pearces.

KC: Interesting.

LKJ: They took the name and… [overtalk/ inaudible]

KC: So, their real name isn’t listed… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: Actually, their listed name was Smithson, and they are directly related to the individual
who went to America and created the Smithsonian Institution.

And also, there’s another branch of the family... [laughs] I hate to admit this, but I’ve got to
tell you, that another branch of the family are the Pierces that gave birth to Barbara Pierce
who married George Bush. [laughs]

KC: Really! [laughs]

LKJ: A very distant relation, though, very distant.

KC: Well, it’s all in the human family, right?

LKJ: They spell their name with a P-I-E. My Pearces, when they came to America, they spelled
it P-E-A-R-C-E. There was an immediate split, like in 1600, that’s how long ago it was? So,
don’t put me in with those people.

KC: No, I hear you. But to get back to the story, so when did your memories of this incident in
which... We don’t know what happened exactly; I don’t know... at least you’re not telling me at
the moment, but what... Did you find out what exactly happened to you during those four days
in some kind of regression therapy?

LKJ: Well, this was something that really bothered me because as I said, I have a pretty
photographic memory and I can remember all the way back to being an infant in a high-chair,
being fed. Those are among some of my earliest memories, not even being able to handle a
spoon myself but being conscious, you know, fully conscious of myself and the people around
me in the room and having these memories of what’s going on.

So, having a period of my life that was just like... that began rather dramatically and ended
rather dramatically of which I had absolutely no memory, was something that really bothered
me, so I worried with it for years. And, of course, a lot of my work in hypnotherapy was helping
people recover memories, but the unfortunate thing is that I do not hypnotize well.

KC: Oh really.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: And did you find that out when… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: When I trained in hypnotherapy, [laughs] you know, because you have the teacher and
you work on each other, you practice on each other. The teacher works on you, practices on
you. And you know, I’m really not hypnotizable, so... Even trying to deliberately go into a self-
hypnotic state, when I’m not concerned about somebody else or giving up control to
somebody else, even that doesn’t work because there’s this conscious, watching part of my
mind, this analytical thing, that never, never turns off.

So, it worried me and I thought about it a lot over the years.

KC: [inaudible] …memories back.

LKJ: And it became even more of a worry because after Tom French did his article about me in
the St. Pete Times back in 2000... Was it 2000? Yeah... He spent five years practically living in
our house because he thought that what I did was interesting. And, you know, we talked about
this and he was curious about it, and that kind of reawakened it.

KC: I see.

LKJ: And like: What happened, what happened? He interviewed members of the family and
confirmed my memory, but we never... nobody ever really knew what happened.

So it started to worry me, you know, like in the sense of nagging in my mind, and I asked my
husband to go with me to a highly recommended hypnotherapist. I was going to try again. I
thought if I could just try, if my husband’s there in the room with me and I could really, really
relax, you know, maybe, maybe I could get there and I could do it.

So we went and we tried; it didn’t work. This woman tried everything, every trick in the book.
And she was good; she really was good. But you know, I’m sitting there... the whole time I’m
analyzing her technique, you know? [laughs] “I would have drawn that out just a little longer; I
would have phrased that slightly differently. Ooh, good touch, yes, like that. I’ll remember how
to use that.” You know, that sort of thing.

But then what I started doing, I started doing pre-sleep work which was... I would start to
really think about it every night before I’d go to sleep, really get intense and think about it,
and go through everything I could remember right up to that moment, and then... what I could
remember, and just, you know, like slice by slice.

My husband and I were talking about a lot of things and I was going through a lot of emotional
releases on many things because I was using my own breathing program. We had a breathing
meditation program that…

KC: And what year was this, would you say?

LKJ: This was in 1997, ’98.

KC: Um hum.

LKJ: So, what happened was, I started having very vivid dreams that I thought were related to
this and one night I actually had a dream, where I had gone to sleep thinking about everything
right up to the point where we arrived at this house and went inside, I got the bottle... And the
dream continued on with what happened, and it was like SO intense and so real that I woke up
sobbing, you know, just sobbing uncontrollably.

And my husband, you know: What’s going on?

And I said: I remembered, I remembered, I remembered.

KC: Wow.

LKJ: And I’m really convinced that I did remember. But this is one of those things where you
have no empirical evidence, you’re still depending on a very fallible human mind. The human
mind... I know as well or better than anyone how fallible it is, how impressionable it can be, so
I can tell you what I remembered in this dream but I cannot tell you that it’s a fact.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And I cannot even tell you that I believe it. This is where you’ll find me a little bit different
than most people, because I don’t believe anything. I assign probabilities, and probabilities
can change, you know, with the addition of new information. But I would give it greater than
50%, maybe going up towards 65 or 70% probability of being probably what happened.

KC: Okay. Do you want to share it?

LKJ: Well, it’s something that I’m sure that other people have talked about, these things where
you...

I remember being in a room and it seems to me that they were using some kind of drugs like
LSD to experiment on me, to put me in an altered state, to then try to program me. The
programming was designed to make me repressed, shy, withdrawn... ah... what would you
say? Somebody who doesn’t like to make friends or can’t make friends, or is afraid to make
friends, or is afraid to speak to other people.

KC: And this was at the age of two?

LKJ: Three, two or three.

KC: Three. Yeah, incredible. The fact they start so early is fascinating.

But this is where you actually had that... I mean, I think you should describe this. We talked
earlier about the actual vision that you saw and the repeated... because that is a
programming technique, I believe.

LKJ: Well, it started out that first I was in a room, just a bare room with a wooden floor, sitting
on the floor. I’d been given some little toys to play with. I don’t even think there was a blanket
or anything; I think it was totally bare.

I was sitting there and somebody came in and gave me something and then they said: You
just wait here and we’ll be back.

And so I’m sitting there, just, you know, looking around at the room. As I was looking around,
all of a sudden the walls started melting, and I understand that this is a fairly common effect
of hallucinogenic substances.

The next thing was, I remember being taken into what was like a classroom scene. I was taken
in, and in front of the class this, you know, a woman took me in and introduced me to a
teacher and the children. And everybody was very friendly and smiling and I was a very happy
new kid at school, totally accepted by everyone. You know, “Here’s your seat”, everybody
friendly, all the children saying all these nice things; sitting down in my desk.

And the little girl next to me says: Can we be best friends? – which is what any little kid wants
to hear. And of course to me it was very wonderful because my dream at that age was to go to
school. Here I am in a real school, there’s other children and they like me and they accept me,
so I’m going to sit down.

And this little girl passes me a note, and the next thing that happens is all these soldiers come
exploding into the room with guns firing, and everybody gets blown to bits. Just really horrible,
with bodies bouncing and flopping around, and brains coming out, and blood, and bits of bone
and gore and everything, and it’s splattering all over me, and I’m the only one left standing.

KC: Incredible.

LKJ: And it’s like: Aahh! You know, screaming and crying, and screaming and crying.
So then the next scene is me walking in like a park setting, and there’s this old man with a
dog or something and he’s sitting on a park bench. He’s got some cookies or cake or
something and he invites me to sit down and offers me some. He’s talking to me, a little kid,
and telling me a story or something.

And then he gives me like a piece of paper or something and the instant he gives it to me, all
of a sudden the soldiers reappear, and they’re blowing him to bits, blowing the dog to bits,
blowing, you know, maybe people in the park. It seems like there were vague images of other
people in the park. You know, blowing everybody to bits – blood, gore and bits of bone and so
forth. And I’m left standing. I’m the only one left standing.

And the third one was we were like standing in lines. I was in line with a lot of people and it
had kind of like this feeling of a concentration camp sort of thing.

KC: Oh.

LKJ: These lines... And it was like we were standing in line to do something or go somewhere,
or something bad was supposed to happen. And I knew we had to escape, I knew I had to
escape.

And there was this little girl. It’s like the same little girl that was in the classroom?

KC: Um hum.

LKJ: She was in the line next to me and she recognized me, and I saw that she recognized me.
I knew that she better not say anything to me because if she does, the soldiers will come and
they’ll blow everybody away again, so I kept my head down. I was talking to her like out of the
side of my mouth: Don’t look at me, don’t say anything to me. You know: Don’t act like you
know me. Please don’t recognize me, because if you act like you even know me, they’ll kill all
of us.

She just looked at me and smiled and handed me a piece of paper – there was supposed to be
like a note on it – and the instant she did that, in come the soldiers again, blowing everybody
away, and I’m the only one left standing.

KC: So you had these three consecutive dreams in the same night?

LKJ: Yeah. Oh, it was all one dream.

KC: I see. And at that point, was that when you…?

LKJ: That’s when I woke up screaming and crying.

KC: Incredible. So at this point... I mean, I understand you have now extrapolated from that
dream, or series of dreams, that in essence you were being programmed in a sense to be
reclusive, not to share, that if somebody gives you information or gives you something, that
you’re going to be... they’re going to die.

LKJ: Not so much if they give me information, but if they attempt to engage me in a friendly
way and ask for it, because it was like they were asking for help, you know, they wanted
something from me. They wanted my friendship, they wanted me to share with them,
something.

And basically, it was, yeah, last man standing.

KC: So you’re recovering this memory... And this is actually not that long ago. It’s what,
maybe ten years ago, maybe?

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: Yeah. And this basically impacted your entire life.

LKJ: I’m sure it did. It was totally subconscious. I mean, how could something like that not
impact your entire life? How could it not make you really, really paranoid, in a sense?

KC: And slightly antisocial, maybe?

LKJ: Antisocial, absolutely. Reclusive.

KC: So, if you have special gifts... In other words, in your investigation of your own self, did
you reach the conclusion that perhaps you had special gifts, and that was the reason you were
selected, and that they wanted you to keep those secret or separate in some way? Was that a
conclusion that you came to?

LKJ: Well, sure, because of the things that have happened at other times in my life, and the
things that have happened subsequently. What it did was, it drove me to the necessity for
being just plain normal vanilla, not standing out – don’t do anything that draws attention to
yourself, because if you do, people are going to get hurt.

KC: Um hm.

LKJ: And that was probably the most profound thing that it did. So I spent many years trying to
dissolve into a really normal, banal life.

KC: That’s fascinating, yeah. So you kind of tried to camouflage yourself with a pretty normal
life. At what point did your life stop becoming normal?

LKJ: When I started meditating; that really was... And as I said, that came about because after
I had my fourth child I was bedridden. And when you have a really active mind like mine and
you’re under this kind of stress, you need to relieve that stress and frustration.

Of course, trying to live a normal life was extremely stressful and frustrating, so everything
kind of like came to a head and here I was, bedridden, and I decided to learn how to meditate.

I combined some clever hypnotherapy techniques with some standard meditation techniques,
as I understood them, and started having really extraordinary experiences very, very fast. I
mean, you could say that I had your typical shamanic initiatory experiences.

KC: Are you familiar with kundalini? Do you feel that you awakened your kundalini?
LKJ: I know what people talk about kundalini. I don’t know if kundalini is exactly what
happened, but what I had was a powerful cleansing experience. You know, certainly the way
some people describe their kundalini experiences could describe what happened to me, but I
don’t know that that’s necessary. That is, once again, one of those things: Where’s the
empirical evidence? [laughs] I don’t believe anything.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: I had a powerful, powerful experience and it had extraordinary physiological symptoms;
and it had extraordinary psychological effects, you know, freeing, liberating.

I went through this whole period experiencing psychokinesis to such an extent that I actually
got afraid to go places because I was afraid something was going to break in my presence –
windows, electronic objects, glasses, pictures. Sometimes I only had to look at something.

And in fact that still happens now if I tend to not listen to myself and not take care of myself or
take care of things. Or if there is something out there that’s threatening, you know, things
break. And in fact I’d like to show you the most recent object.

KC: [laughs] Okay.

LKJ: I’m going to send someone to go and get it and you can have a…

KC: That’s a good idea.

LKJ: You can have a look at one of my most recent psychokinetic experiences. [laughs]

KC: Okay, so you access, basically, these…

LKJ: I graduated from glass.

KC: ...special powers in yourself as a result of this meditation and moving into that place. But
at what point did you also get into the contact with the Cs, as you call them, the
Cassiopaeans?

LKJ: Well, I think that actually began at that time, 1985, because what I was doing was, I was
doing these... I mean, when you’re laid up in bed, you can sometimes meditate twice, three
times a day just to keep your stress level down. The thing is, I went at it just for stress relief. I
mean, that was what I was after.

KC: So you weren’t seeking enlightenment per se?

LKJ: No. The technique I designed was designed for stress relief.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: I had no idea it was going to do what it did.

KC: Okay. So at that point, when you say you think you contacted the Cs then... in other
words... because I understand that you worked with a Ouija Board.
LKJ: Um-hum.

KC: And there’s a group, actually, that you worked with.

LKJ: Um-hum.

KC: And I want you to describe all of that. But how did you get to that point if you started with
the meditation?

LKJ: Well, what happened was that when I wasn’t meditating during this period, I was reading
and I subscribed to a library-by-mail service and I would read these books, because...

This is where the whole religion thing came in because I decided: Okay, this is the time to read
about those things that are in my mind that I’m curious about. I’m curious about this issue of
good and evil and the end of the world, and eschatological ideas... because I’ve always had... I
had dreams when I was young about the end of the world.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: These were recurrent dreams of what I perceived or understood or explained to myself as
the end of the world. Whether it was the actual end of the world, I don’t know, but they were
some pretty troubling and repetitious dreams.

KC: So you saw, I’m assuming, cataclysms of some kind?

LKJ: Oh, yeah. Mm-hm.

KC: Did they have water, tsunamis, that sort of thing?

LKJ: Cataclysms, smoke, fire, scorched earth, cracked earth, dinosaur-type creatures striding
around, reptilian-looking creatures, serpents slithering everywhere. It was some pretty creepy
stuff for a young kid who had never been exposed to today’s form of horror flicks to be seeing
in their dreams.

I was never exposed to a movie, a book, a photograph, an image of any kind that would ever
put that kind of thought in my mind at that age. I was growing up in the ’50s – come on! – that
stuff wasn’t available.

So, back when I was like 21, 22, I remember having some more of these dreams and I told one
of my girlfriends. We were driving on the road and I says: You know, things are going to get
very, very bad on this planet. I have the feeling that by the time I’m 50 years old, things are
going to be very, very bad. I just feel this, there’s something inside of me says this.

Well, you know, you just kind of brush that stuff off. It’s just stuff that you think or say when
you’re young and impressionable.

KC: So, fast forward, you’re meditating, you think you’re having some contact with the Cs, but
how does that manifest?
LKJ: Well, I was reading these books, and I read Immanuel Velikovsky’s Worlds In Collision
because I’d read an article about eschatological scenarios and it mentioned Velikovsky, and I
said: Well, I’ve got to get this book. Well, finding his book was a little hard but I actually went
to the library in town at some point and found a copy of it on, you know, selling off their books
that they were taking off the shelves, for 0.25¢. [laughs]

Anyway, I got a copy of it and I read it, and I was reading this stuff and it like opened a whole
new view of the Bible to me.

As I said, I was raised in a very religious family and I had read the Bible completely through,
cover to cover, several times, and this was like a whole different way of looking at the Bible
than the faith-based way. Although, actually, Velikovsky was writing from a kind of faith-based
perspective – it was just a Jewish one, not a Christian one.

His belief was that the Exodus really happened, so he was interpreting these things as the
events of the Exodus. But I think that they were much older stories that were later conflated
with still other stories to create an Exodus story, because the Exodus that’s described in the
Bible never happened.

But anyway, so I would be sitting there and I would read something that he had written and I
would stop and I’d look up and think to myself: Wow, is that possible? And as soon as I would
say this in my own head, in my own head all of this information would begin to flow.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: And it would be like... like my own thoughts! It would be like: Yes, not only is it possible,
consider this: Da-da-da-da-da.

And it absolutely could be just rearranging, reorganizing all the material that was in my brain
from years and years and years of reading a book a day, that was just being sorted and
reorganized in my brain and spit back in response to my question. You know, the brain’s like a
computer. Who knows what it can do? It’s amazing.

KC: Absolutely. But was there information that also you hadn’t maybe studied, new
information that came in?

LKJ: Yes, and there were ways of putting things together that were totally unique. The funny
thing about it was that I would start to write this down – and here’s where it got really weird –
because I would start to write things down, and I would write things that I didn’t know what
was coming.

KC: What do you mean?

LKJ: I would have asked this question in my mind, like: Is it possible for the sun to do this? You
know, here they’re describing the temperature of the corona, the temperature of the surface
of the sun, the temperature of the interior of the sun: Something is wrong with the way these
numbers are adding up, you know: What is the reason for this? And I would start writing things
and they were like... I never heard of them before, and I didn’t know...
Because, you know, when you’re talking or when you’re writing... You’re writing a letter: Dear
so and so, I’m writing to inform you that I’ll be coming to visit you on Tuesday next... you’ve
got in your mind what you’re going to put in this letter.

KC: Right.

LKJ: You know what you’re going to say and it’s just a question of putting it together. That’s
different from writing when you don’t know what’s coming, which is kind of a unique thing.

And then I would say: Well, I have to go and take care of the children. Or: I have to go cook
dinner, or something. Or: I have to go do this or that, or whatever. So I would put it down and
it would like stop, but it would be like it was backing up in my head, and it would back up to
the point where I felt it was like pressure, like I was having a headache, you know, just like a
headache. And I’d say: I’ve got to go. Because some parts of it would leak out, like words, like:
wait a minute, you know. And it just seemed like I was just thinking.

Okay, now I’m supposed to be cooking here, but I’m really thinking about the relationship
between the magnetism of this planet to that planet, and the solar radiation and gravity and
planetary distances and blah-blah-blah. And: What do you think would happen if that
happened? And you know, thinking about these things, and they would, you know, leak out of
my head.

KC: So, at some point you would go and have to…

LKJ: So I had to stop and go write it down. And I have boxes full of this material.

KC: Fascinating. So how did you make the transition, then, from doing that?

LKJ: The problem was I didn’t trust it as channeling.

[Someone brings an item to LKJ. It looks like a round black item the size of a frying pan with
the handle separated from it.]

KC: Okay. So... that’s amazing.

LKJ: See, this is my most recent…

KC: [laughs] I can’t believe it.

LKJ: This is a cast iron skillet. It was one of my favorites. It belonged to my great-grandmother.

KC: Amazing.

LKJ: And it wasn’t even hot when I looked at it. I had just, you know, it was there and I was…

KC: Were you upset at the moment?

LKJ: Well, there were a lot of things going on and there were a lot of things that I needed to
“get a handle on.” [Kerry laughs] You know, the universe and the subconscious mind is
marvelously metaphorical, so this is a message to myself.
KC: Okay.

LKJ: Which is what most psychokinetic activity is, by the way, it’s people sending messages to
themselves that... I mean, even a lot of poltergeist-type activity, but that’s a whole other
topic. Yeah, spitting it all out, all that sort of thing.

KC: Well, did it scare you when this happened?

LKJ: No.

KC: There had to be a loud noise, right?

LKJ: Yeah, and everybody else was in the room, too.

KC: Oh, really?

LKJ: Oh yeah. I mean, Anna, you were there weren’t you?

ANNA [speaks from off screen]: No, but I heard about it right after. I was in the office.

KC: Oh, okay.

LKJ: Well, there were four or five people in the kitchen when it happened. We were all just
standing there going... [opens her mouth into an O].

KC: Uh-huh.

LKJ: And then I turned around and I said: All right, who’s pissing me off? [laughs]

KC: [laughs] Incredible. Well, okay. Have you ever hurt yourself?

LKJ: No. Never.

KC: And what about hurting other people?

LKJ: No.

KC: No just kind of…

LKJ: I send messages to myself.

KC: Right. I understand.

LKJ: And usually it’s pretty clear what the message is.

[laughs] One of my favorite ones was... I have a bust of Edward VII that my grandparents
acquired prior to the coronation that never happened because he abdicated to marry Wallis
Simpson. They had acquired it as a souvenir and it was something that I acquired when my
grandparents died.
But anyhow, so I’ve got this bust of Edward VII and he’s sitting up on top of a bookcase and
my youngest daughter came in. I was reading a book, and actually I was reading about
Templars, and she came in with a piece of gold foil paper and said: Mommy, can you cut me
out a crown to wear?

I said: Sure. I put my book down and I got the scissors and I sat there and I cut her out a crown
and taped it so she could wear this crown on her head.

As soon as I handed it to her, all of a sudden Edward VII came tumbling off the shelf, broke
into pieces, dented my end table. And then, I turned the page... after all this was cleaned up
and everything. I was very upset about it because there was no ostensible reason for Edward
to come tumbling off the shelf.

But then, [laughs] I turned the page, and there’s, in the book that I was reading, they were
reciting the old nursery rhyme about Jack and Jill went up the hill, you know, and how this had
come about as... it described a certain... royal battles or something.

Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.

Jack fell down and broke his crown...

KC: Right.

LKJ: And here I had just made a crown; Edward VII, who never was crowned, fell off the shelf;
and I turned the page and I read about Jack breaking his crown. So, I never figured out what
the message of that one was, but that was one of those really weird things that just happens
to me.

KC: Well, are you familiar with your prior lives?

LKJ: Most of them, yeah.

KC: Okay. And do you think that you were a king at any point?

LKJ: No.

KC: You don’t?

LKJ: No. I don’t think it really had anything to do with that, no. Oh, God! [laughs] I wouldn’t
want to be a king! No. In my immediate past life I was just a German housewife in Nazi
Germany, married to a Jew. The Nazis came and took my husband and my children and I
committed suicide. So, I did fall down and break my crown.

KC: So at this point... we are at this point where you are putting two and two together – you’ve
meditated, you got contact in essence with the Cs although you don’t actually know it’s the
Cs.

LKJ: Well, you have to understand that during these meditative experiences or during
meditation, I would tend to... Some people call it samadhi when you’re just kind of like “gone”,
and you’re just gone for extended periods of time, so I guess if that’s what you want to call it,
that’s what was happening. I would be gone for extended periods of time.

And what was going on inside my head was not something that was foreign or different; it was
essentially myself in the future. It was just a wider scope of consciousness.

So when people talk about the Cs, it always entertains me because they’re saying: Oh, I’m in
touch with the Cs. And I’m thinking to myself, well, I didn’t remember talking to you lately.

Because it’s basically, as they’ve said and as it has proven to be through the years, it’s just
really a highly expanded state of consciousness that expands into the future and the past, and
laterally, I suppose.

Because, you know, if you’re members of a soul group, certainly there would be other
individuals on the planet who might be, you know, [making quotation marks with her fingers],
“part of the Cs’ soul group”. So it’s not like a singular thing, but I would say that it’s not all
inclusive of all of humanity either.

KC: And that makes sense.

LKJ: But it never was an intrusive thing. It never felt like anything other than the action of my
own brain working through a problem.

And in fact, there have been many times when I was... like in school, when I would be working,
like, for example, on mathematics. You know, when you work very hard on a math problem,
how you feel this pressure right here, you’ve got stuff going on in this forward part of your
brain, and that’s in a sense how it felt. It felt like my brain was applying something kind of like
sheer brute thinking power on a problem, sorting it out. That’s how it felt. Maybe that’s what it
is.

KC: Okay. So at that point, though... I’m just kind of putting myself back where you were at
that point, because you went from that place to actually using a Ouija Board, and I’d like you
to describe…

LKJ: Well, there was a lot of water over the dam and under the bridge between then and then,
because... 1985... there was a good seven more years of studying and researching a lot of
things before I began the experiment that led to that other form of communication with the
Cs.

There was a lot of experimentation in many things: hypnotherapy – I was doing exorcisms; a
lot of studying, a lot of research, trying to find out what was... And of course I became kind of
obsessed with the material that had come through my own head and I wrote it down.

I wrote this manuscript that I called The Noah Syndrome because everything kind of focused
on the idea that formulated in my brain, of quantum metamorphosis on a macrocosmic scale,
because it seemed to me that this was the central idea of the eschatological thesis. And I
began to research to see if this was actually something that was possible.
I did a lot of studying, reading in quantum physics (certainly not as a professional in any
respect), and following up all the trails and all the clues that I had put together in this
manuscript to see if any of it was even remotely possible.

Because the scenario that presented itself in these thoughts, shall we call them, that I was
having was pretty horrendous... which was that – yes – the planet does transform, but a
transformation of the planet is essentially to us, at our level, a cataclysmic event.

If you say, if an atom goes through a quantum leap transformation or acquires electrons or
loses electrons or whatever, you know, changes from one state to another or maybe from one
element to another by the acquisition or losing of some particle or some part of it, at that level
it’s got to be cataclysmic for that atom.

And if you think of the solar system as a giant atom – and I know that’s frowned on by certain
mainstream scientific thinking, but I still think that it’s a useful metaphor. But if you’re
thinking about a solar system going through a quantum transformation to become something
else, alchemically speaking, it’s going to be cataclysmic. It can’t be otherwise.

Cataclysm on that level does not bode well for humanity.

And I began to think that this is what these dreams, these things that I had seen, that they
were pointing to this cataclysmic transformation. So, of course, if you’re thinking about a
cataclysmic transformation of your world, the first thing you’re going to think about is: Oh my
God, you know, I mean, where’s Noah and the Ark when you need him? [laughs]

And that concept of Noah and his Ark captured my attention because all of these stories of
former cataclysms that you can possibly relate to transformations in the state of the world,
you know, such as the [making quotation marks with her fingers] “fall from Eden”, other
cataclysmic transformations, they were probably other transformations that were cataclysmic.

If you read the science, study the geology, the archeology, the paleontology, you realize that
these cataclysms have recurred repeatedly on this planet. We don’t know with each one of
these cataclysms what life was like for the beings that occupied the planet.

For example, a solar system that exists in a different cosmic ray environment could be very
different from the solar system, or the Earth, or reality, as we experience it now.

KC: Okay. Let me ask you this, though. At this point, because we’re kind of following a
chronology here, and you’re going through an experience, your mind is opening up to all these
aspects and you’re thinking about them, and obviously you’re now encountering, you’re
putting two and two together and you’re getting the notion of a cataclysm and something
coming on in the future of the world.

You’re looking at... Are you concentrating on 2012 at all, or are you just all over the place?

LKJ: Well, at this point, you know, come on, this was 1985, 1986. Was anybody really talking
about 2012 then? Maybe a few French people, you know, but it wasn’t like anybody was
talking about it.

KC: Okay.
LKJ: So, what I was concerned with was the concept of Noah and the Ark because all of the
stories talked about a “fall from Eden”, or a fall from a higher state, that humanity was once in
a different state of existence and that he fell. This was undoubtedly basically a description of a
cataclysm, a global cataclysm.

KC: Okay. At that point were you aware of ETs, for example?

LKJ: Absolutely not.

KC: Okay. But, is this the…

LKJ: I was a good Christian girl. What do you think you’re saying? [laughs]

KC: Okay, that’s fair. But you’re also talking about... This is when you started meditating,
right?

LKJ: Uh-huh.

KC: You’re having all these experiences. You’re going to make a transition. You’re actually
saying it took seven years to make a transition to using the [Ouija] Board?

LKJ: Mm-hm.

KC: So, you’re getting information from those seven years, and did that continue? In other
words…

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: ...that you were writing down. You’re saying you have records, but you didn’t trust it.

LKJ: Well, it’s not that. The problem was that I didn’t really realize what I was doing because I
thought that: Okay, that’s just happening in my head. I’m just thinking. I want to know more
than what I just think of.

KC: Okay. You didn’t think you were channeling at that point, is that what you’re saying?

LKJ: No, of course not.

KC: Had you read channeling at that point or anything?

LKJ: At that point, no. I mean, I’d read Edgar Cayce, I think I read... I’d read a lot about…

KC: Did you read the Ra Material, for example?

LKJ: Oh, no, not until way later.

KC: Okay.
LKJ: It was probably somewhere along in the very late ’80s, very early ’90s, probably ’89, ’90
that I started really reading channeled material because I wanted to know if anybody else was
thinking the same things that I was thinking, you know, about this macrocosmic quantum
transformation, basically an alchemical event.

KC: But you’re also married to an expert on hyperdimensions.

LKJ: I wasn’t married to him then.

KC: Okay. So, when did that happen?

LKJ: All of that came... well, he came after the Cs.

KC: Oh, I see.

LKJ: But... and the funny thing was, as I was doing all this, in a sense it was destroying my
marriage, because you can’t be a good Christian girl and... you know. I mean, I was already
stretching being a good Christian girl by being involved in doing hypnotherapy and some of
the other things that I was reading and studying about.

KC: Right.

LKJ: I was really pushing the boundaries on that, and I didn’t talk about that in my Christian
environment.

So when you start little by little divesting yourself of all of the things that once held big places
in your life and the other partner doesn’t want to go there, and you realize: I can’t deny my
brain, my mind. I can’t deny my questions. I can’t deny the fact that I must seek.

And his solution was: If you want an answer, it’s in the Bible. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s satanic.

KC: Um-hum. I see.

LKJ: I couldn’t live with that, and I tried to open his mind but he was too afraid.

But anyhow, so years went by and I continued to study and research, study and research,
study and research. I mean, God, you have no idea the books I went through. You’ve seen my
library.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: I’ve read nearly all of them. You’ve seen the ones that are stored upstairs – that’s my
current reading list. [Kerry laughs] And then there’s all the library books that I had to return.
[laughs]

KC: Yeah. Absolutely.

LKJ: So, it’s a lot of material that I’ve gone through and so I didn’t think I was channeling, no.
KC: Okay, so how did you make the leap to the Board? Was that just one of your trials and
errors?

LKJ: Well, I’ve really talked about that. [take a book off the shelf] You know, these books are
going to fall down here, but let me show you… In Amazing Grace I go into extreme detail. This
is no longer available, by the way. I’m going to try to put it back up on the internet so people
can read it for free.

KC: That would be great.

LKJ: I went into extreme detail of all the thinking that I went through when I selected the
Board. And I just want to say this for the whackos out there that think that a Ouija Board has
some power to demonically possess you: A Ouija Board has no power whatsoever. It is a tool.
It is a tool, purely and simply.

If anything weird comes around or manifests in your life as a result of interacting with a board-
type instrument, it’s because it’s already there, it’s just covert. All you have done with your
board is flush it out and come face to face with it.

And I would much rather come face to face with anything that’s hanging around in my
environment and be able to deal with it than to have it continuously subtly or constantly
influencing me from behind the scenes.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: See? But that’s been my experience and my observation with a lot of people who... I
mean, come on, it’s one of the finest instruments for psychic and spiritual development that
was ever invented.

I mean, what’s his name, Pythagoras used it. The ancient Chinese used it, you know. And we
still speak of Pythagoras with tremendous respect for his mathematics, for his Pythagorean
Theorem and that sort of thing, and the guy was using something that was very similar to a
pointing... you know, a device that you touch and it points out letters or numbers or whatever.

KC: I understand.

LKJ: The finest, the finest channeled material in existence either began with or came entirely
through a board-type instrument. The stuff that they call channeling nowadays, where
somebody sits down and puts a tinfoil pyramid on their head and starts talking to a Lord
Whoever on their spaceship – that’s trash, it’s garbage.

Read the history. Read the Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research. Read some of
the experiments they did.

The whole research into real paranormal phenomena was completely sidetracked by the
scientific establishment at the end of the 19th century, the beginning of the 20th century,
when these societies were trying to get real scientists working on it. They completely moved
in and they destroyed it.
And what has come in to fill the gap? Quacks! Quacks and people who do not know the history
and do not know the instruments and do not know that they’re doing. If you do not know...

I mean, it’s like my husband with the physicists. Some hot-shot physicist comes along and just
says: Oh, I had this great idea, blah-blah-blah, and he writes his paper. And then he publishes
it and he comes to find out that he was... that somebody thought of it 100 years ago and there
are ten papers written on the same topic. He’s not reading other people’s work first. He thinks
he’s invented the wheel.

[speaks heatedly] All these people, they think they’ve invented the wheel. There is tons of
good channeled material out there, excellent channeled material, but very little of it has been
produced since 1915.

KC: Okay. [laughs]

LKJ: Sorry.

KC: Okay, well, I’m sure you’ve done your history in that area.

LKJ: Oh yeah.

KC: And I’d love to find out what you consider to be the good channeled material. For
example, are you saying the Ra Material, do you consider that…

LKJ: The Ra Material is an exception. That was research. It was experimental research. It was
undertaken under controlled circumstances. It was a group effort. It was not just somebody
sitting down one day and having their free will violated.

And, oh, this is another one! This drives me nuts – people who say there’s a difference
between channeling and being a medium. The medium goes into a trance and her Control
comes in and lets you talk to the dead people and so on.

And then they’re saying, okay, that’s one thing, but that’s different from channeling because
when you channel, a space alien just downloads into you.

I mean, tell me – “downloads into you and speaks through you” – tell me how that is different
from your Control coming in and using your physical sensorium, using your mouth, your eyes,
your whatever, to communicate?

KC: Okay. So, for example, can you name some of the channels out there that in the past or
even current ones, like, I think his name is [unclear]... is that his name?

LKJ: I would rather not do that, if you don’t mind. It’s easier just to…

KC: That’s absolutely fine. How about in the past? Would you go into the past?

LKJ: Allan Kardec. The Patience Worth material. Those are fantastic works. The Ra Material
certainly. The work of Jane Roberts, you know, the Seth Material. She began with a Board.

KC: Um-hum.
LKJ: It’s a way to develop your own internal communication.

KC: Yes.

LKJ: And of course, even with the Seth Material, Seth says: I am an alternate of yourself, you
know?

KC: Mm-hm. At this point you actually started working with the Board, I’m assuming. Did you
work by yourself? I mean, how did you...?

LKJ: Okay. I came up with the idea, first of all, that to think that... I mean, when you read the
history of the paranormal, so to speak, you realize that some of these people who really did
some fantastic work, I mean amazing work, that enormous stresses were put on their bodies.

There is the whole gang of the skeptics society that will try to tear apart some of these
wonderful cases. And I think it’s Deborah Blum who wrote a wonderful book called the Ghost
Hunters. There is also another one out about Daniel Douglas Home, called The First Psychic.
[written by Peter Lamont]. Highly recommended books.

If you really want to know some truly extraordinary paranormal phenomena going on, read
[Arthur] Conan Doyle’s history of the paranormal, [The History of Spiritualism], where he gives
extraordinary analysis of the Fox sisters and the introduction of the so-called channeling
contact phenomenon.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: So it’s clear that it put extraordinary stresses on these people, on their lives
psychologically, in some cases on their physical bodies. I mean, some of the great mediums of
the past were known to lose up to 15 pounds in a single sitting. I mean, that’s a lot of weight
to lose.

And then there were these wonderful mediums that would produce ectoplasm. And, skeptic
society, just back off! I mean, I say I don’t believe things, but let me tell you, the testimony,
the photographs, the witnesses – I am 99% convinced all of these things happened and that
they happened as they were described by these really extraordinary witnesses – so just leave
me alone. Don’t even talk to me. [Kerry laughs]

There was fantastic work being done, fantastic material, and I wanted to study this before I did
anything.

I had read all of the stuff that was published as channeled material up the point in the early
’90s and I thought: This is like word salad. I call it salad-shooter channeling. You know... salad,
[makes noise of machine chopping vegetables] you know? It had no depth, it had no meaning.
It was all platitudinous, it was like intonations of “Love and Light and Good.”

We can clearly see that what these channels are saying, what these entities, whatever they
are... has no practical application in our real lives. Sure, somebody says: Oh, you just have to
love and you have to ... [unclear]. I mean, just give me a break! [Kerry laughs]
So I was reading the history. I wanted to know what other people... and I saw that there were
people that had done fantastic things.

Because, if you want to channel and you say: I am Lord High Poobah of the Intergalactic
Command, and I’m going to tell you all this stuff, and you’d say all this wonderful stuff – fine.
Who can prove or disprove it?

KC: That’s right.

LKJ: The work that was being done by these experimenters in those days, they were seeking to
validate what they were doing. They were doing what was called cross-correspondence
experiments where they were having experiments that were taking place on two sides of the
Atlantic. And this was at a time when there was no communication, there was no instant
communication, so sometimes it took weeks for the results of the timed experiments to be
brought together to know that everything had happened in a certain way. Some of it was
amazing stuff.

They were actually working on something that was worthwhile. What good are you doing
anybody if you’re just channeling stuff?

I just love the ones that are saying: Oh well, there was supposed to be an asteroid hit the
planet but thanks to the kind offices of the, you know, Lord High Council of the Galactic
Federation, or whatever, we diverted the asteroid from the planet and saved Earth.

Okay, first of all, nobody knew anything about said asteroid except that they predicted it so
you have only their word. And then, since it didn’t happen, you only have their word that they
diverted it. I mean, we’re talking about... It’s like Jehovah of the Bible: I am the only God. You
shall have no other God before me. And the reason that you’re supposed to believe this is
because I say so.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: Excuse me??? [Kerry laughs]

KC: Okay. So at this point, you wanted to work with the Board, and you must have… [overtalk/
inaudible]

LKJ: I had decided to work with the Board at that point. I went through all the material and it
was because of the historical material that I determined that the Board is the way to begin. It
is the way to really begin, because there’s a lot of work to be done to channel. You can’t just
sit down one day and talk. Oh, you can talk to dead dudes; anybody can talk to dead dudes.

KC: Right.

LKJ: But, come on, it’s like Cayce said: A dead Presbyterian is just that, a dead Presbyterian.
[Kerry laughs] He’s no better and no worse than any other dead…

I don’t want to talk to dead dudes. I’ve talked to plenty of dead dudes. I did spirit release for
years. I have never yet encountered anybody that I put under hypnosis who didn’t have spirit
attachments.
KC: Okay. So you had an incredible background when you actually sat down at the Board with
what? One other person? Or were there more than one?

LKJ: Well, usually there was one or two others, and I was changing them because I was
experimenting to see... I was trying to get the right energy mix.

I had one person who was... actually, the reason he was there for most of the sessions or
nearly all the sessions was because he was simply the only one who showed up that regularly.
Other people came and went. People would get bored. They weren’t getting what they
wanted. They didn’t immediately get their lottery numbers; they didn’t get their predictions
for the horse races or whatever – and I did a lot of experimenting with that to see what kind of
possibilities there were.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And then I found out that some of these people who were coming and using this... I was
doing it because I wanted to write these things down and then check. I wasn’t playing these
numbers, I was just checking any kind of... I mean, prophecy is supposed to be part of
channeling, right?

It didn’t occur to me that most prophecy is BS because either it’s being created by the one
that’s prophesying – they’re making the prophecy come true to give themselves validation –
because the universe really is open. And then there are some things that, you know, that the
probabilities narrow as you get closer to the event. You know, there are those things.

But I had the idea this is what I wanted to do, and I knew I needed somebody else to do it with
me, and I wanted to find somebody whose energy was just right. And that’s what we did – we
sat and we went through loop after loop after loop of... I mean, you talk to lots of dead dudes
when you’re using a Ouija Board. Believe me, you do.

But for me, having the experience that I had with spirit release therapy, with exorcism, it was
easy for me to use the Board itself as a medium of exorcism, because instead of having a
person under hypnosis who...

You communicate with their “attached entities” through them. You know, you say to the
person under hypnosis: Okay, you’ve got your attached entity. Would you ask them when they
came? And then they ask them mentally, and then they hear the answer, and then they repeat
it back to me, so you’re getting things, and you’re having this conversation with somebody
under hypnosis.

Okay, you’ve asked your attached entity what his name is.
Well, his name is John.
When did John come?
Nineteen forty-five.

And they’re having to stop and ask the entity, and of course you don’t really know, you know.
I’m just telling you how the technique is done.

KC: Right.
LKJ: You don’t know for sure if it’s true or not. I just know that the therapy really works.

So, here, with a Board, you’ve eliminated having to use somebody under hypnosis as your
medium for talking to this dead dude, and you talk to dead dudes more or less directly, you
know?

KC: So, assuming you did that, okay? And you began to also get feedback… For example, did
you find that you were getting, I don’t know, a lot of negativity using the Board, in the initial
phases?

LKJ: No.

KC: No. Okay.

LKJ: No. We talked to a lot of dead... but I knew what to do with them. If you get some creepy
little dead guy that comes along and says: Hi, I’m a dead hippie. Peace. Love. Yeah. Far Out…
And we had them, you know?

KC: And the other thing that you would have been on the lookout for, obviously, is platitudes,
which these people…

LKJ: Platitudes. Allan, would you go get the Board Notes? I’d like to show them to Kerry.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: Because, one thing…

ALLAN (A): You want them all?

LKJ: The whole stack, yes. One of them is up in my office but don’t worry about it, it’s just a
thin one.

A: All right.

LKJ: We kept notes because this was in the nature of an experiment.

KC: Yes.

LKJ: I wanted to record…

KC: You were doing the scientific method.

LKJ: ...every motion of that Board, everything it said, and I did that for two solid years,
sometimes twice a week.

KC: Um-hum. I’m assuming your hand is one of the... at least on one side of this…

LKJ: Usually it’s three fingers. Yeah, I’ve usually got three fingers on it.
KC: So you’re touching it. I was just wondering. And then you get another person to touch it.
Do you have more than two people or only…

LKJ: Well, at least two; sometimes three or four.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: There are many times... well, for the longest time we had three. Three was really good. It
was a good number at the time because the third person kind of balanced out this other
person that was there, whose energy was a little on the negative side, maybe. He was a
fantastic psychic, amazing psychic.

KC: This is something you found out subsequently?

LKJ: Yeah, but that’s all recounted in my Wave series.

KC: Okay. Well, that would be also fascinating for people to read.

LKJ: So usually we had at least two, three, and it changed. You know, it changed from time to
time.

KC: I am curious whether that... because you spent years before you actually got to the Board,
and you had material of your own that in many ways you were saying was coming from your
own mind. But at the same time you’re saying that it contained information that wasn’t – you
were writing and you didn’t have it in your mind prior to when you were writing it.

LKJ: It wasn’t in my conscious mind.

KC: Okay. So when you got the Board and when, maybe – let’s assume that at some point you
contacted the Cs, or even before then – did you ever see parallels in what you had gotten prior
to that showing up?

LKJ: Only after the Cs.

KC: Only after the Cs. Okay.

LKJ: It was like, in a sense it’s kind of like creating or grooving a circuit that goes directly from
my higher consciousness to my arm.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: In a sense it’s kind of like ... [crosstalk/ inaudible] …

KC: It’s also like tuning in a radio.

LKJ: It’s tuning in a radio, yeah.

KC: …that you were doing over the years…

A: [brings book to Laura] This is what was in the Podcast Room.

LKJ: This is what we have. Well, there’s more but this is just a sample of what I call my Board
Notes.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: Every single movement…

KC: Okay, yes. So you must have had an extra person here writing, taking notes and stuff.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: Did you record the sessions as well?

LKJ: We didn’t record them until well after the Cs were... I mean, we didn’t have recordings of
some of the earlier Cs sessions because recording is expensive, you know? We were trying to
keep notes.

KC: And again, what year are we in when you…

LKJ: We were in 1992, 1991, ’92, ’93.

KC: So you’ve been in contact with the Cs since ’93?

LKJ: Since ’94.

KC: Ninety-four. Wow. That’s incredible.

LKJ: July ’94... July 16.

KC: Okay, and this is 2010 so that’s a long time.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: And so you’ve been able to also validate a lot of what they’ve been telling you.

LKJ: Oh, Lord. I mean, come on, I’ve read the historical channeled material. I’ve read modern
day channeled material. I have an entire bookcase in there that has nothing but modern day
channeled books from, oh, probably the last 15, 20 years. And the Cs are very spare; they are
not verbose.

KC: Yes, I’ve noticed that.

LKJ: But what they say is so loaded and so damned accurate, you know. Sometimes they’re
spectacularly, or apparently spectacularly, wrong or off on something, and then you find out
later they were right.

I mean, one of the things that really, really got me was, we had one session one night and one
of my girlfriends was present. She asked about something and I asked if there had been
cometary bombardments over Europe during the time of the origins of the King Arthur
legends.

And at this point there was a group of people working on this. I think they were archaeologists
or geologists or somebody, who were working on this theory. They were writing scientific
papers on it but they hadn’t been published yet, it had not come to the attention of the
general public. So the information was out there in the biosphere somewhere, but nobody else
knew about it.

And so, for them to say it was... like, they even gave the year... and then to find this in a
scientific paper like four, five years later it finally got published, you know, was just one of
those amazing things. And then things about biology, things about ancient history…

And of course, the biggest thing has been their predictions about what our world was going to
be like in the future. Now, remember, this is back in 1994, pre-9/11, and they described what
was coming, how it was going to play out. I mean, they didn’t say: Oh, there’s going to be 9/11
on 9/11. This is how it’s going to... But they gave enough hints and enough…

You know, part of the problem is we didn’t ask the right questions, too. But they did, in many
cases, voluntarily give clues and hints to information that there was a government conspiracy
that was underway. It was going to change our world. And that it was going to be a huge,
huge, huge thing. And they even said that: Big! Big! Big! Big! with multiple exclamation
marks. (They do their own punctuation.)

So, you know, their whole description of our reality – past things, things that we have been
able to verify, things about ancient languages, things about DNA – and we try to research, to
verify. And I know most channels: Oh, well, it’s channeled, we don’t have to research. I’m
sorry. I’m going to research it and I’m going to try to validate it if I can, because this is an
experiment. This is not somebody talking to God here. [Kerry laughs] Forget about that.

KC: There’s also something that they do repeatedly, which is say that they won’t answer a
certain question because they won’t interfere with free will. I mean, there’s certain indications
that come through, and maybe you could talk a little bit about that, in terms of the positive
and the non-interfering level, the non-controlling aspect of the channel itself.

LKJ: Yeah, this is something that’s frustrating for some people because, you know, they want
somebody to underwrite their experience on Earth. They want insurance that everything is just
so. The Cs are basically saying this is a school and you’re here to learn and you can learn
things by doing a little studying and having a study guide, you know, Cliff Notes, but there are
many things you really have to experience.

And then of course we all know, and I’m sure everybody’s had the experience where as a
young person somebody told you: Oh, you’ll understand that when you’re older, and you were
thinking at the time: What are you talking about? I understand perfectly. And then a few years
go by and you have some experiences and: Oh my God, that’s what they meant. Now I
understand.

How many things are like that in our lives, where we can’t really understand until we’ve had a
certain experience? And when you’ve had the experience, you understand in a way that no
amount of anybody telling you could make you understand.
And then of course there’s an old legend about a magic alligator skin or something, that every
time you made a wish, the skin got smaller and smaller. And getting your answers handed to
you on a plate, you know, makes the skin get smaller and smaller. The skin kind of like
represents something of you, because whenever you don’t do your own work it’s like being
carried, it’s like a child.

KC: You don’t develop the muscles.

LKJ: You do not develop. You do not learn how to walk. You don’t learn how to think.

The Cs have said repeatedly: We are here to teach you to use your most valuable asset – your
mind – and to use it well, and to use it in the way it was intended to be used... not as
something to run programs that are put into you by your family, your society, your religion,
your politics, or your belief system.

Beliefs... you know, we don’t deal in beliefs. We’re trying to learn to use our minds without
believing. Believing is a cheap thing to do with the human brain. The human brain is a
marvelous, marvelous instrument and it is at the disposal of this Higher Essential Being that
you are, a Mind that interfaces with our reality through this brain.

You know, have some respect! Don’t ask to have everything handed to you.

Somebody asked me once, you know, what is the most important thing I’ve learned from the
Cs? And I thought, well, the most important thing I’ve learned is that I don’t have to ask them
everything anymore. I can think things through on my own. I can figure things out on my own.

They have taught me how to think. They have deprogrammed me from my illusions. Some of
that was very difficult. I had illusions, like everybody. I believed the whole, you know: “Love
and light, and just think nice thoughts, and nothing bad will ever happen to you.”

Well, you know, the controllers of this world, The Powers That Be, the hyperdimensional
denizens that have designs on your future and your energy, would love for you to believe that:
“Just think nice thoughts”.

Well, I’m telling you, there’s an old Indian story about that, about the Mahout and the
elephant. You know, the Master is telling the disciples: Everything is God, God is in everything.
It’s all God, you know, just become one with everything and be one with God.

So they go out for a walk in the forest, the Master and his disciples, and along comes an
elephant handler. He’s running and screaming madly: There’s a mad elephant on the
rampage. Mad elephant. Get out of the way! Get out of the way! So the Master and most of
the disciples, they all run and climb trees.

And this one thinks: Well, the elephant won’t harm me because all I have to do is remember
that the elephant is one with God, I am one with God, and the elephant won’t… So he stands
there being one with God and the elephant tramples him.

So he’s laying there, smashed in the path and the Master comes to him and he says: Why
didn’t you get out of the way?
And he says: I was being one with God and one with the elephant.

And he says: Well, the elephant handler, who was one with God, was telling you to get out of
the way!

KC: [laughs]. Right. Absolutely.

LKJ: So, God has many faces, not all of them pleasant to behold.

KC: Um-hum. Absolutely. Yeah... and that’s very wise.

So, what I’d love is to find out, or actually have you talk about, is what the Cs are talking about
now and what they’re saying about the future, and what, if anything, they’re saying about
2012.

LKJ: Well, the Cs led us through a whole learning process where we learned a great deal about
pathology in humanity. We had to actually go through certain experiences before some of the
things that they said to us could even be taken onboard.

For example, one of the things that they say is that there are human-looking beings who do
not have souls as we understand it, as individuated souls, that they are basically animated by
the equivalent of an animal soul that goes back into a soul pool when the body dies.

And this of course really explains one of the problems which plagued human beings for
millennia, that there are people who are really convinced they have a soul and people who
declare that it does not exist. Well, what if they’re both right?

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: You know, what if the people who really know that they have a soul and really believe in
the existence of a soul are those who have one; and those who simply cannot ever under any
circumstances conceive of such a thing, or believe in such a thing, or see evidence for such a
thing, or have experiences of consciousness that is not directly connected to a physical body –
maybe they’re telling the truth. And this is a really big conflict among human beings.

So, there is a form of this aberration, of this... You can’t even call it an aberration because if
that’s what is existing on the planet, if there are souled beings and non-souled beings, that’s
just what is.

But there is a defective version of the non-souled being which is what we have come to know
as the psychopath. Our definition of the psychopath is really specific. It’s a genetic thing.
You’re born that way; it’s not something that you acquire or get. And it’s also not something
that necessarily anybody can see from outside behaviors.

You may have to interact with an individual for a very long period of time before you come to
realize that they have no conscience and that they simply will do everything they do to further
their own ends and that nobody and no thing else ever turns them from what they want to do,
you know, their immediate gratification. And I’m sure every one has had somebody like that in
their life and in their experience.
But the bad thing about it is that these kinds of people tend, because of their nature, to rise
into positions of power, also, just as there are the ordinary garden variety sort that just live
out their lives as parasites on other people.

So that was the first thing that we had to learn about.

KC: Right, and those kinds of people actually tend to mirror behavior that they intuit, or they
realize that you want to see, and then they mirror that back. And so, of course those people
rise up in through the ranks, because if an authority figure gets “Yes” all the time and gets
what they want, the kind of behavior they want in the person working for them, they are going
to promote that person.

LKJ: It’s not just a question of mirroring, because they are great mimics and mirrors, of course.
But the bigger problem actually is the fact that the psychopaths took over religion, like
thousands of years ago, and they began to structure religion so that it would create belief
systems that would service their agenda.

And it is our understanding that these soul-less beings and psychopaths themselves are the
instruments of hyperdimensional beings, i.e., paranormal; i.e., alien.

Now, if you’ve studied the works of John Keel, and I know his book Operation Trojan Horse is a
little hard to get, but anybody who is interested in the subject of UFOs or aliens really, really
needs to read this book, because aliens, so-called aliens, are not a new thing. They are not
aliens from outer space, although I’m not excluding the possibility of extraterrestrials. But the
UFO / alien phenomenon, by and large, is a paranormal phenomenon.

And if you understand that there are soul-less beings in charge of the governments, in charge
of religions, in charge of academia and positions of power – judges, lawyers, doctors,
psychologists, psychiatrists, school teachers, they have moved in and taken over these
positions – that you would be living in a world that is pretty much focused on a materialist way
of life.

And even if you think about it, they use religion to create a belief in some Resurrection of the
Dead at the End of Time, where all the “saved people” are going to be resurrected to have a
physical body. So this actually is a materialist view of the world, even if you say you’re
believing in God who is supposed to be a spirit, or you’re believing in Jesus, or whoever, it’s a
…

KC: Yeah. There’s an apparent contradiction also in going to heaven, you know…

LKJ: Right.

KC: ...even as certain forms of Muslims believe, in other words, that you’re going to be
[unclear] with virgins, and… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: Yeah. And of course, you know, the Jewish religion believes that it’s going to be an Earthly
kingdom, with the Jewish Messiah ruling over the entire world, on Earth. So, you’ve got just
variations of the same materialistically created and propagated belief systems. So you’re
also...
KC: And when you say, in terms of... You’ve got non-physical beings, hyperdimensional beings.
You’re also talking about going cross-dimensional, so it can be termed “outer space” because
space, going through space, and different planets…

LKJ: Oh, certainly.

KC: And beings from other planets can be other-dimensional.

LKJ: Certainly. Absolutely. Very early in our sessions with the Cs we were really taken with the
idea of maybe communicating with some aliens. Everybody else was doing it, you know; we
wanted to communicate with some aliens, too. So, it’s like: Are you aliens? We asked the
question: Are you alien?

And they said: From your perspective.

Of course people immediately jumped on that, saying: Oh, they’re aliens.

And then later on when they came back and said: We are you in the future, we are you in the
future, we are you in the future, people couldn’t forget that they had said: We are alien from
your perspective. But that wasn’t exactly what they’d said, so…

KC: But at the end they also say that they were the aliens, right? And they’re a different being,
in essence, depending upon… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: If you read that particular passage and you understand, you know, that they’re talking
about information, that these are different information sources that may not necessarily have
anything to do with an actual extraterrestrial being, as in something or somebody from
another planet...

Although other planets, other star systems, we don’t know that what we see is exactly how
things are. We have scientists and they have instruments and they have telescopes and they
say: Oh, this galaxy is umpteen zillion light years away.

Well, maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Maybe that’s just a matter of our perception, you know, just
like time is a matter of our perception. Maybe it’s really right next door, but the dimensional
differences are perceived by us as spatial differences. We may say: Oh, it’s billions of light
years away, and it’s really in another dimension.

KC: Exactly. So that’s the same premise with, for example, Venus appearing to be an
uninhabitable planet, when in reality it may actually be inhabited in a different dimension. And
so we’re looking at that through a telescope, so we’re seeing a certain dimension.

LKJ: That’s entirely possible, because anybody who’s looked at the matter knows, Venus is
hotter than hell. I mean, if there is a hell, that’s where it is. [laughs] I mean 900º, acid rain
falling 24 hours a day, and they don’t have 24-hour days, but you know what I mean.

I would say it could definitely be that our perception of it, from our state of being, we perceive
it as 900º and hotter than hell, and maybe in another dimension or density of...
And the Cs make a distinction between dimensions and densities. Dimensions are lateral and
infinite, and densities are vertical and only seven.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And density refers as much to state of awareness, you know, because obviously if you’re
in a higher density, you’re more aware of the multiple dimensions on the density “below” you,
and as you go up, this just increases. Because we as human beings are extraordinarily aware
of many creatures inhabiting the animal kingdom and the world around us, the natural world
and so forth, so we’re aware of many dimensions below us.

We’d have to say that these higher dimensional or higher density beings have the same
perspective on us that we have on…

And that’s kind of a scary thought, especially if you realize that they may not have your best
interests at heart. And just as a farmer has a lot of awareness of the many dimensions of his
herd of cows – he knows them very well because he knows which ones he’s going to butcher
to put in his freezer.

KC: Right. And this is where we get into... I mean, you obviously also got into what you call the
Lizzies, but we’re talking about Dracos or Reptilian beings, through... You have had interaction
with them, I assume, through the Cs or at least…

LKJ: Well, I don’t know that we’ve had interaction with them. We’ve certainly acquired some
information, because you know, you read these things.

I have people under hypnosis, they’re telling me they’re having interactions with reptilian
beings if you take them into a hypnotic regression of an alien abduction experience, and
they’re telling me about getting raped by a reptoid... Well, I’m hearing these stories and I’m
asking these questions and I’m going through all of this, so I’m going to ask to see the
validation.

And we did adopt very early on this term Lizzies. I think that was from Barbara Marciniak,
which we thought was just such a handy term because it kind of diminished the terror.

Because, if you really think about it, it’s really kind of a terrifying thing to think that there are
creatures that apparently, according to the best information we’ve collected – circumstantial,
no proof, but I’m giving it high probability because of the volume of witness testimony – that
there are aliens, and a lot of them eat human beings. And they particularly prefer vegetarians
who don’t smoke, so there’s a big camp... I mean, they’re influencing the governments of the
world to ban smoking.

And, you know, there’s a strong influence coming down the pike, and you’re going to see it, to
minimize and eliminate the eating of meat, even. You saw... I mean, there’s the scare of mad
cow disease and then the bird flu, and the millions and millions of chickens that were
destroyed and the millions of cows that were destroyed. And now they’re talking about cows
contributing to global warming.

Global warming... which, by the way, is a crock, because the Cs have been telling us since the
1990s that we’re going into an Ice Age and that it’s going to be really serious.
KC: Okay.

LKJ: But that’s a whole other... but that’s where we get to the topic that you’re interested in,
2012, yeah.

Well, 2012 is just an approximate marker. I think the number 2012 came from somebody’s
interpretation of a Mayan Calendar, and there are various interpretations of the Mayan
Calendar. We don’t know that that’s necessarily the correct one.

We also don’t even know if it meshes correctly with our own calendar, because our own
calendar has been changed more than once. But for general references, it’s kind of like an
approximate date, close enough for horseshoes.

KC: Well, okay. But you’re basically getting information from the Cs about not only... I mean,
you were talking to them back in ’94; you were getting information about now. Okay? And
you’re also getting information…

LKJ: And it’s happening.

KC: And you’re seeing it happen. And then you’re also getting information, in other words,
going forward through whatever year. I don’t know how far forward you’re going.

LKJ: [speaking to Allan] What year did they say things were really going to transition? What
was Year One? How many years forward is it?

A: It was five years, about six months ago.

LKJ: Six months ago they said we have five years.

KC: For?

LKJ: Before Year One of the New Reality.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And as you know, the way they put things, there’s ways you can interpret that. Either
that’s the end, or it’s the beginning, or it’s both. What it means in terms of a beginning? Well, I
think it’s up to us to create it.

KC: Um-hum. And that’s very significant also.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: But at the same time, there is a sort of playing out of the scenarios and the agendas, for
example, that they’ve talked about, in terms of the Illuminati.

LKJ: Oh yeah.

KC: And that that agenda now is being put into effect.
LKJ: Yeah, it’s happening. I mean, the whole... They’ve said that the frantic drive for control by
these [making quotation marks with her fingers] lizard beings, or for the self-service
individuals, is going to become so oppressive that people are going to get to where they don’t
even want to leave their homes.

And I think we’re kind of already there, you know, for the most part, except for the ones that
are being evicted from their homes because they don’t have homes to live in anymore, which
is another part of it. That’s their drive to control the money system.

So, they’re driving to control every single aspect of our lives, and there’s been the... At one
point we asked about: Was there going to be an alien invasion?

Well, I’ll tell you just off to the side here, who needs aliens when we’ve got psychopaths? You
know?

KC: But the psychopaths are being motivated by other-dimensional beings.

LKJ: Yes.

KC: And also Lizzies and Grays – right? – who are on the fourth…

LKJ: Yes. Well, Grays are cybergenetic probes, they’re not even real beings. They’re almost
like, they’re plant-like living robots.

KC: Sure.

LKJ: They’re like a cross between a plant and a critter, and they grow up like plants. And they
send them because they can function in our reality much more easily than the Overlords, who
have great difficulty making their vibrations match with our reality.

They’ve also been working on hybridization projects to hybridize beings that can cross
densities, that can be bi-density, that can move between densities, because they want to use
these bodies themselves as incarnational opportunities when they... you know, in a sense to
use them as portals into our world.

KC: Which they are doing, and they have been doing.

LKJ: Oh, they have been doing it.

KC: Okay. You’re saying you went through the pathologicals…

LKJ: Well, we didn’t start with pathological beings. We started asking them a lot about aliens
and we got a lot of answers. It’s in... I have this little book called A High Strangeness, where I
collected together all of the material on the subject of aliens, UFOs, that sort of thing.

KC: And I think that’s a great summation of your work, by the way.

LKJ: Yeah, on that topic at least, because there’s so much more because, me and my passion
for history, these transcripts are just full of historical questions that I actually had to ask.
In any event, yeah, any time we would read something, or see a video, or hear about some
new little bit of information... And this was back in the day when I sat down and read Val
Valerian’s Matrix books 1 through 4 in a continuous sitting. It took a couple of weeks because
they’re pretty thick, but I read it from cover to cover without stopping until my eyes literally
bled because I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I mean, oh my God, it was crazy stuff! And
I even make mention of the Matrix books, and having read them, in the sessions because it
was at that point in time we had a lot of very unusual experiences.

But then we got to the topic of pathology because the Cs kept trying to say: There’s more to
this phenomenon than you’re asking about. There’s more going on than your simplistic
questions are allowing us to give to you.

We had to really start expanding our thinking and expanding, you know, the possibilities. And
we had experiences that led to the topics of pathology in human beings and how pathological
human beings... And maybe pathology is even kind of the wrong word to use because if
something is genetically born that way and it’s born that way for a purpose, how can we say
that it’s pathological? It is what it is.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: “Pathology” implies that there’s a sickness. Well, it’s a sickness from the point of view of
normal human beings, you know, human beings who care about one another, that constitute
the majority of humanity – or did.

That’s rapidly changing, because, apparently, according to the Cs, and it seems to be
happening before our eyes, they have been creating a ruthless race in which to incarnate
themselves at the time of this upcoming macrocosmic quantum event so that they can rule
over the rest of humanity, whatever remains, in the higher density state.

In other words, they want to lock this planet into their evil garden spot, for them to have
control and domination they think, of course, for all of eternity. That’s their plan, that’s their
intention.

We would like to see that that doesn’t happen. We would like to see a future of freedom for
people. And the Cs have said that that also is possible, but the people can’t do it until they can
connect together in a certain way. And they cannot connect together in a way that can block
that hyperdimensional… In other words, what we want to do is we want to cut off their power
supply.

There are all these pathological people on our planet and they’re getting fuelled by these
hyperdimensional negative beings that are negative – you can’t even plumb the depths of
their negativity. You read about the most horrible crimes that have ever occurred, committed
by so-called humans on this planet, and you’re getting a little bit of the picture of what their
internal landscape is like. Okay? So, pedophilia, snuff films using children, cannibalism…

KC: Exactly. And we can allow people’s imaginations to go…

LKJ: Okay. So that’s the kind of beings that they are trying to engineer. You know, I want you
to really understand how horrible a world it would be if they succeeded, because they would
have the total freedom to do whatever they wanted with any normal human being who has a
soul and who has a conscience, and make them suffer as much as they possibly can in order
to feed off that energy of suffering.

Because that’s what they do. They feed off of that energy of suffering. They’re not psycho-
paths, they’re psycho-phages. They are soul-eaters. They eat souls. They are light eaters.
They eat it.

So the Cs have said that there is a way that we can cut off the power supply of these
pathologicals that are taking over our planet, but it involves connecting ourselves together in
a very specific way. And I can’t give you all the exact details right now because I don’t have
the text in front of me.

But it involves clearing out your emotional garbage, getting free of your programs, you know,
the manipulated programs that have been put into you since you were born – cultural
programs, religious programs, political programs, and so on, because what they’ve done is
they divided us and conquered us this way.

It’s like men against women, straights against gays, blacks against whites, Hispanics against
whites, you know, all these superficial differences that mean nothing, have nothing to do with
the real essential core difference, which is the difference between an individual who has a soul
and has compassion and empathy for other human beings, and those who do not. We’re
calling them pathological and I explained that, but we’ll use that for the sake of convenience.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: So, the real difference is whether there is a soul or there isn’t a soul. And the story of how
the blood got mixed is in our most ancient legends, that somewhere along the way there was
a mutation. Maybe it was a deliberate engineered being or a group of them that were put on
this planet, you know, to spread these psychopathic genes throughout the population.

Any family can produce a psychopath, some more than others because, you know, multiple
strains come together. So it’s not a question of black or white or any of those things. The
question is soul or not soul.

And even people, the so-called “organic portals”, people who don’t have souls, just because
they aren’t individual souls doesn’t mean that they’re bad, either. It’s just that they are more
susceptible to being used by the negative forces because they follow the leader. And who is
the leader on our world? Psychopathic individuals in positions of power.

So, we have a chance. We can... and the Cs have given us techniques, specific instructions.
We have been putting them into practice. We have a breathing and meditation program that is
specifically designed.

The Cs have said that this program is even more ancient than anything you could ever learn
from yoga, that it is the same techniques that were used by the Paleolithic peoples who built
the megaliths, who put the megaliths together, you know, the ones who did the cave
paintings?
These people had stable societies. There was no warfare on the planet. The archeology does
not show violence and warfare for 25,000 years – 25,000 years! These people lived in basically
what was an Edenic state.

And then there was a cataclysm, a catastrophe about 13,000 years ago. The megafauna all
over North America and Europe was destroyed in a single instant, you know? And another Ice
Age was initiated, a temporary one. It was a shorter one than the long one we had just come
out of. But this was the time, I believe, that the mutations that we now deal with, the
psychopathic mutations, originated. They began at that point.

KC: Okay, are you talking about before Atlantis or after?

LKJ: Well, I would say that probably that is what is remembered as the Atlantean Deluge.

I just finished reading a really marvelous book that collects the legends and myths from
Eastern Europe and from Central Asia and from even Northern Europe and compares them one
to another. Because, you know, most of us, all we know about is the Oriental or the Middle
Eastern thing, you know, the Bible, the Bible story. And the Bible story of The Flood is a rather
late-comer and it’s been highly edited and modified.

There are some really ancient stories of this event and they come from other countries, from
Native Americans, from Australian... the Aborigines. You have stories from Pacific islanders.
You have South American stories.

There are a lot of stories that are much older and more authentic than this highly edited,
sanitized version that we get from the Bible which has permeated our culture. We need to
learn about this because this happened.

And there’s a lot of scientific work on this, like Victor Clube and Bill Napier. And right now
there’s Richard Firestone, Alan West, and Simon Warwick-Smith who wrote the book The Cycle
of Cosmic Catastrophes, about this event. There’s a lot of science being done that validates
everything the Cs have said about these events.

KC: Mm-hm.

LKJ: And of course these guys, they don’t want to know that some so-called channeled source
– you know, me-in-the-future, called the Cassiopaeans – talked about what they are proving
scientifically. But, you know, there it is.

KC: Well, actually, that’s an interesting question to think about, which is, whether or not your
husband, and, how do you say it, Arkady? Is that how you say his name?

LKJ: Just call him Ark.

KC: Ark, okay.

LKJ: I found the Ark!

KC: [laughs] I hear you. How would he deal with the science end of things?
LKJ: He’s working on this. He’s working on a lot of the things, a lot of clues that the Cs have
given, you know, mathematical clues about modeling dimensions and densities and gravity
and those sorts of things. And he’s making excellent progress. I don’t want to talk about that
too much, but he’s making some really good progress with that.

You know, science has been taken over by pathology, too. There are many good scientists who
are interested in these topics, who are interested in the paranormal, who are interested in
what we’re doing, and believe it or not, we get together with them and talk about the Cs.

I get emails from people across the world who are doing, you know, real scientific research
and they ask me: Well, what do the Cs think about this? And I give them… Of course, I would
never bring their names out in public. I would not embarrass, I would not cause them
problems with their institution.

Come on! Brian Josephson started – a Nobel Prize winner – started talking about the
paranormal and so it’s like, you know, the rumors started immediately, propagated like
wildfire in the scientific community, that he needed... he was having a nervous breakdown and
he needed a long rest. This is what happens.

KC: Yeah.

LKJ: Because in science they do not and cannot allow consciousness that exists outside the
body to be demonstrated as a demonstrable effect. I don’t say that we’re ever going to prove
it in any satisfactory material way – a non-material phenomenon – but we can demonstrate
that that’s the way it is.

I mean, if you’re sitting there on the side of the road and people keep walking by you on the
road and they say around the bend there they just crossed a bridge over a river... And you, for
some reason, you can’t get up and walk and go around the bend, but 500 people have passed
by and some of them even said: I stopped and got my feet wet. You see them with wet feet.
Or: I fell off the bridge into the river, and they’re soaking wet. And all these people are walking
by you telling you about this river and this bridge.

You know, that’s pretty convincing that that bridge actually exists and that river is actually
there. And maybe you can even hear the rushing water. And maybe you can hear steamboats
or people splashing in the water. You can’t see it with your eyes, you haven’t put your foot in
it yourself, but it’s convincing. That’s how paranormal events are.

KC: Absolutely. And that’s actually what we’re doing here today. We are talking to a witness of
these events, of this information, and actually that’s our portal into the unknown – are the
people. We are actually portals, in essence, bringing back information about what cannot be
seen in this reality, this 3D materialistic reality.

So we’ve got to move beyond it, and we’ve got to use the eyes that we have and the senses
that we have, and we certainly have more than the traditional number of... What is it? They
tell you you have five senses? I don’t even know, I’m so used to so many more being a part of
my understanding.
LKJ: Part of the problem there is that paranormal phenomena are like macrocosmic quantum
phenomena. In the quantum world you can observe momentum or position, never both at
once. Once you’ve observed momentum, you’ve changed position and vice versa.

So, the materialists... and I think that there should be some kind of testing process to
determine if an individual has a soul or not before they’re allowed to become a scientist.
[laughs] I’m sorry, but I just think that people without a soul, who also don’t have a
conscience, should not be in positions of authority in any sphere of activity.

But they say: Oh, you’ve got to prove, you’ve got to be repeatable. Well, how repeatable is it,
observing the same atom in the same momentum or position over and over again in a
laboratory? It’s absolutely, utterly, even theoretically impossible, yet they want to impose that
demand on paranormal phenomena – phenomena that are non-physical, that are basically
macrocosmically quantum. So, you know... And Carl Sagan: Well, extraordinary claims demand
extraordinary proof.

Well, come on, if this were a murder trial in a court of law, there would have already been a
hanging hundreds of years ago.

How did we go so wrong? Because pathologicals took over our government, took over our
religion, took over our society, took over our education…You know, they completely removed
spirit, consciousness, soul from the entire equation. We live in a post-modernist, rational world
where being human means to be a machine.

KC: Exactly. Absolutely.

LKJ: Even if I’m scientific and I want evidence, but I want evidence that gives me probabilities
because I know, I understand my phenomena. And I have experienced it.

And let me tell you a funny little story before we close here.

There was a linguist who got in touch with me, and he was interested in my book, Secret
History, because I get into some linguistics in there. He picked it up at a Fortean Times... one
of their conventions. And Fortean Times is another one of those things that’s really gone off
the track because, you know, Charles Fort, he said: I think we’re property. [Note, exact quote:
We are someone else’s property. Wikipedia].

I mean, he got into Fortean phenomenon because he knew it was evidence of some other
reality. And now, the Fortean Times and the Fortean people spend all their time debunking. I
mean, they have article after article. I mean, they debunk UFOs, they debunk this, they
debunk alien abductions. They spend all their time debunking. It’s like they’ve got to be
approved and patted on the head by the scientific establishment in order to find their reality,
you know, that there’s a reason for being.

KC: Right. Especially materialistically.

LKJ: Oh boy.

He wrote to me because he found my book at this Fortean Times Convention, or

Unconvention. We had a few little exchanges, and he didn’t like a certain book that I had cited
as being a very interesting read, which is Where Troy Once Stood by Iman Wilkens – a great
book.

I think that what he’s proposing in there – while it may not be exact as to timing and it may
not be exact as to every single detail – but I think that what he’s proposing is basically a very
valid hypothesis, that Troy did not exist in the Mediterranean, that Troy existed in an area in
England, and that all of these difficulties that scholars have had for years of trying to figure
out what Homer was talking about with this “wine dark sea”, and these weird sailing directions
and these weird places, was because all of these things took place in a different place and a
different time.

Of course, the archeology does not bear out Troy in the Mediterranean. I mean, if there is a
Troy, then it was certainly not as described by Homer.

KC: Um-hum.

LKJ: So, we were talking about Iman Wilkens’ book... highly recommend it if you can get a
copy. And Iman, you know, no, I don’t get any kickbacks. [Kerry laughs]

But we went back and forth and I explained to him that the main thesis of the book is to talk
about this underlying hyperdimensional reality that is behind our history and how it extrudes
itself into the historical timeline, and how you can observe these long historical events and
see the movement of that hyperdimensional energy through the actions of human beings,
through historical cycles, through the behavior of groups of people, through the
manipulations. Things emerge, you know?

So he came back: Well, he’d never experienced anything and blah-blah-blah, and I was talking
about something that I couldn’t prove.

And I realized I could get into a whole long debate with this guy and I could fight all of this. If
he really wanted the evidence, it’s there. Go to the library. Look it up in the card catalogue.
Read the books. If you haven’t read the books, don’t talk to me. The guy was putting down
Sheldrake, who he hadn’t even read his book.

KC: Sure.

LKJ: You know, don’t do it. So I said: I’m not going to get into this argument. I’m not going to
engage, I’m not going to give this guy my energy. So I just wrote him back and told him what I
said awhile ago, you know, that I realized after a long period of observation that there are two
basic kinds of people on the planet, people who believe in souls and people who didn’t.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: And I explained to him that we have all been programmed with this Judeo-Christian thing
about: All have souls. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, or whatever, and it
permeates everything. It permeates even science. A scientist cannot grow up in our society
and do science without having it influenced by this Judeo-Christian world view. It pollutes
everything we think, do, and say.

So I said this to him and he wrote back: Well, I’m anti-religion.

And I wrote back and I pointed out... because he talked to me about etymology... I says: Just
think about the fact that you were criticizing these etymologies, which is finding out word
roots. And I said: Where do you get your etymologies?

Well, from Hebrew and Greek.

I said: Okay, and if you read the Bible and you understand where these etymologies come
from, you understand that they made shit up to explain the origins of words according to the
way they wanted it to be made up.

I said: The whole foundation of your science is based on something that’s made up and can’t
be trusted.

I said: So the whole problem is that there are two kinds of people – those who have souls and
who have the experiences that I have had. I cannot convey to you my experiences. If you
haven’t had them, you haven’t had them and there’s no way that I can convey it to you.
There’s 10,000 people can tell you that they have them, but if you don’t have them and have
never had them, you can’t know what they’re talking about.

It’s like somebody talking about the color blue and green, and the differences, to somebody
who is blue-green colorblind. Okay? You don’t have a soul. You can’t... you don’t see those
colors. You’ll never see it, you can’t understand. So there’s these kinds of people.

So I told him: You’re probably one of those that doesn’t have it, so for you it’s true. You have
never had those experiences, you will never have those experiences. Many people have them.
I have had them, many other people have had them. For us it’s real, for you it isn’t, because
there’s two kinds of people – those who have souls and those who don’t.

Well, let me tell you what. This member of the skeptics society, this totally scientific, post-
modernist, rationalist linguist, who wanted to shoot... you know, who bought my book no
doubt so that he could criticize it, wrote back and: How dare I suggest that he didn’t have a
soul! The thing he denied existed, he now wanted to have!

KC: Exactly.

LKJ: Isn’t that amazing?

KC: Well, it actually makes sense. The trouble is, with the pathological individuals, whatever
you want to call, the ones that are basically service-to-self and the ones that do not have
souls, the ones that are service-to-self and don’t have souls, because there are service-to-self
that do have souls and are working through an evolution of going back to who they once were.

But, in essence, those beings are also claiming to have souls because they want to fit in and
so they are some of the most rabid fundamentalists and whatever, because they are actually
almost mimicking what they think a being with a soul would be. It is a hall of mirrors out there,
and so discernment is absolutely... I mean, in other words, if you have a soul it’s not
something that you can... Again, how do you prove it?

LKJ: How do you prove it? You can’t prove it.

KC: And that’s actually the nature of…

LKJ: It’s like the river around the bend. You can hear intimations of it. You can see some bits of
evidence that keep coming around from the people telling you stories and people have their
feet wet or their clothes wet, you know?

KC: Yeah. And then they’re all different, because there are so many disguises that we’re
talking about that beings, and humans, so-called humans, wear and so on. So we’re talking
about some people think that because a person behaves in a certain way, that means they’re
a good person and they have a soul.

LKJ: No. Now remember that…

KC: Actually, it’s the ones… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: Evil insinuates itself by appearing to be good. Human beings have an inter-species
predator that mimics them and mimics…Think about the guy down in Australia that was found
out for being a complete fraud, a complete psychopath, and for years he had been like a
philanthropist and he had funded organizations that helped battered women, or helped
children, or whatever, and it turns out that he was the biggest pedophile and woman batterer
of them all.

Because that is the essence of the psychopath – a mask. They have a public life and a private
life, and that’s why we make the distinction between psychopaths and antisocial personalities.
In a way, the psychopath is ultimately antisocial but you will never see it on the outside. It is
covert. It is hidden.

KC: Yes.

LKJ: They truly are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

KC: Yeah. And I think, whereas that appears to be really disheartening information for people
to get, I think it’s among the most valuable things that you’re doing and that you’re revealing
to the world. In other words, it is the fact that the dark side has a face but it’s a face that looks
like light.

If there’s any single thing that I think you’re bringing to the table that is missed, in especially
the New Age community, however you want to look at it, that’s probably the biggest thing.

LKJ: How many people in the New Age community are psychopaths? Because, it’s wide open,
it’s unregulated, it’s a place where people are looking for answers, they’re looking for gurus,
they’re looking for somebody to lead them. They’re looking for everything that the psychopath
says: I could give that to you. I can give you what you... just believe in me, just do whatever,
pay me your money, come and…

KC: Absolutely.

LKJ: Come to my sessions, or whatever. And this is, in a sense, one of the reasons I’ve been so
reclusive, you know? I don’t want to go down that path.
KC: Absolutely. Well, we’re going to have to wind this up at some point here, but I do want to
give you a chance to talk about, for example, one of the things you’re doing here is smoking
on camera and I’d like you to talk about smoking, a little bit more about that, because you
have a philosophy about that.

LKJ: It’s more than a philosophy. I mean, the Native Americans used tobacco in a sacred sort of
way, and the reason they did was because they knew that the use of tobacco helped them
connect to their higher self, their inner self, the Ancestors, if you want to call them that. But it
helped them to tune into what was really going on, to see, to perceive.

KC: But there’s a reason for that, there’s actually chemicals…

LKJ: There is actually... because when you smoke tobacco it mimics acetylcholine, which is the
neurotransmitter that is produced by thinking, by really the act of thinking. It’s also produced
by other activities, but this is one of the main things it does.

And it also stabilizes your parasympathetic nervous system because when you stimulate the
vagus nerve, which is one of the things that I teach in my breathing program, it also causes
the body to produce acetylcholine, which puts you in a state of calm alertness, you know. It
stabilizes you, relieves you of stress.

So what is more natural for the Powers That Be to do than to deprive us of one of our most
convenient and useful tools? I mean, it’s like they made a movie about The Exorcist, you
know; they took Ouija Boards away because everybody is scared of that, and they made them
terrifying. I mean, it’s almost a parallel phenomenon.

KC: Yeah, it’s fascinating.

LKJ: They terrified people of ever using a Ouija Board. Now everybody’s going around saying:
Oh, Ouija Boards! Oh my God!, you know, and: It’s haunted, and: I burned it because when I
used it there were all kinds of things happening. And then, same thing with tobacco, I mean,
the campaign and the lies about tobacco.

Now, let me say right up front that the chemicals that are put into many cigarettes, if not most
of them, you know, burning agents and so forth, that they put in to flavor them or to make
them burn longer, you know, some of the things in papers – those things are definitely evil.

But let me tell you what, the worst thing you get from smoking a cigarette is a teeny, tiny
amount of cadmium. Yes, cadmium is a carcinogen, but you know what? You get more
cadmium riding in your car to the supermarket, breathing the air outside, than you get from
smoking cigarettes.

And if you read the book Detoxify or Die by Sherry Rogers, which is a great book, she’s
compiled a lot of great evidence. You’ll notice that she does mention it, but she mentions in
passing, en passant, that the amount of toxicity that you get from a cigarette is so small
compared to what you’re getting from your food, from the exudate from your carpets, from
your clothes, from using plastic cookware, from using Teflon, from the air from the combustion
engines on the road, from factories, you know.
Just about everything in your environment is totally deadly and poisonous, not to mention the
gender-bender chemicals that are in plastics, the mercury that’s in vaccinations…

KC: Also, we have to talk about the mind, you know, the role of the way people are thinking…

LKJ: All those things are poisoning your mind.

KC: ...is also what creates disease, because that’s what we get to the root of what causes, for
example, cancer.

LKJ: Well, what changes your thinking? Your chemistry. What changes your chemistry? What
you put in your body. And, let’s face it, we can’t avoid, we cannot...

You know, we did not evolve in an environment that was as toxic as the one we live in. And
the toxins that are out there, you know, our systems cannot keep up with it.

Everybody is a little bit different. Some people have better detox systems. You know, the liver,
the kidneys are your detox system, and some people have very sensitive ones.

Did you know that there’s, what is it... 40... is it 40-million? Forty-million people in the United
States suffer from autoimmune diseases that are caused by chemical toxicity from clothing,
paint, preservatives, pesticides, their household cleaners, you know, whenever you clean
anything… I mean, it’s just really... Look at my video on the topic and you’ll see that this is
just an incredible problem.

So it’s handy to have a scapegoat. Cigarettes are the scapegoat. If you’re sick, it’s because of
cigarettes. Okay, well, most people stopped smoking. Okay, it’s second-hand smoke. Okay, it’s
third-hand smoke. You know, pretty soon it’s going to be you’re going to get sick and die from
imaginary smoke. It’s going to be like terrorism, you know – we’ve got to go and kill those
people because they might think about becoming terrorists at some point.

The whole thing is that neurochemistry is a very delicately balanced thing and it can’t be
balanced if you’re in a situation where your fight-or-flight mechanism is turned on
continuously, repeatedly, because you’re afraid.

People are so stressed. I mean, depression is a killer. People are dying of depression. Look at
the number of people in the United States that are on antidepressants, you know, people that
are going off and shooting and killing their families or their friends or whatever.

This is a serious problem, and it’s because people are not smoking. They don’t have outlets,
they don’t have anything to help them balance this other toxicity. Because at least, if you’re in
a toxic state and you’re toxified from having been outside… [or] you went into a Wal-Mart
which is so loaded with chemicals you should drop dead upon walking in the door...

KC: Absolutely.

LKJ: ...and you get out of there and you light a cigarette, the cigarette gives you enough
acetylcholine to stabilize your brain so that you don’t fall over dead and you can get your
detox system going. But they’ve deprived you of that. They’ve deprived people of nearly
everything that could help them to stabilize or deal with the environment. And not only that,
they’re poisoning their food.

KC: Well, and then we’re not even talking about chemtrails here.

LKJ: Don’t even go there! [Kerry laughs] I mean, we’re talking about what’s in everyday food,
the everyday water, you know, your dental amalgams, the fillings in your teeth.

KC: Well, also there’s electromagnetic, I mean, electrosmog. We’re basically talking about...

LKJ: The worst thing, the absolute worst thing – the microwave radiation from your cell...
People are walking around with these things stuck... And do you know there are oncologists
who will not use cell phones because they know that they cause brain cancer? They won’t let
their children use them. But they won’t make a statement against them publicly because if
they did, the medical establishment, which is owned and run by pathologicals, by
psychopaths, would destroy their careers.

KC: Sure. Yeah, it’s an amazing thing.

LKJ: Everywhere you look you see the evidence of pathology and control, you see the evidence
of normal human beings being beaten down, controlled, everything taken away from them.
Now they’re taking their homes away from them. They’ve taken their money away from them.
They’ve taken away your right to privacy. You got to go and show yourself naked, you know,
to get on an airplane?

I mean, it is the lizard’s drive for total control that is manifesting in these pathological people
on our planet. And if you think aliens are the problem, okay, yeah maybe they are. But who
needs aliens when we’ve got psychopaths to deal with?

KC: Um-hum. Okay Laura, any last minute... because we do need to wind this up. And it’s been
fabulous and I really value and appreciate your insight, your willingness to have such an open
mind and your willingness to speak outright about it and truthfully. I think this is something
that we need more of – okay? – and so that’s why I’ve asked you come forward today.

But is there anything else? Why don’t you talk a little bit about what you’re going to be
packaging into DVDs for people, and then give your websites?

LKJ: We’ve already done, we’ve got this breathing program, but we’ve got people who are
going to be teaching the breathing program because one of the techniques really is a little bit
tricky, and even though I teach it on the video and I go into it in several ways approaching it
so that you can get a complete picture of how to do this breathing program, it still really is
good to have a teacher. And we’re having the teachers coming here.

This is a breathing technique that I developed and it’s the one I used that took me very quickly
into these really amazing meditative experiences and really kind of brought on the shamanic
initiation. And the Cs were kind of the result of this breathing program, if you really go back to
it.
So we’ve got that kind of packaged up. We’re going to be making a version of it that we’re
going to try to distribute as cheaply as possible, if not free. If we can get enough financial
support, we’re going to distribute it to soldiers.

Come on, let’s face it, if people start getting in touch with their higher selves; if they start
breathing properly and learning how to stimulate the vagus nerve and get acetylcholine in
their bodies... If they start learning how to do some of these things, you know, they’re going to
be able to become more understanding of one another, and they’re going to be able to get
together with one another, and they’re going to be able to see things shamanically that they
could not see before. And they’re going to be able to see where the real enemy is, you know?

KC: For sure. And discern truth when they’re…

LKJ: Discern truth. [overtalk/ inaudible] It is a program that definitely will bump up your
discernment levels, I mean rapidly.

We’ve got people that have been doing it now since the summer. Some of them had almost
immediate results; some of them have taken a little longer. But every single one is having
gradual, incremental improvements in not only how to cope with their lives, but they’re having
these wonderful, these marvelous experiences with their own selves, with their own higher
selves. It’s a really beautiful thing to see.

KC: What I would like to tap into here at the very end is talking about what we’re looking at in
the near future, in terms of what’s set before you, why you’re doing what you’re doing right
now, because we’re actually talking about a transition in which getting into that place of
higher consciousness is so important.

LKJ: Okay. It is important because the Cs have said that, yes, we’re coming up on what they
call The Wave. They’ve been talking about The Wave since 1994. So we’ve been talking about
this and publishing this, and other people have picked up these terms and they have,
whatever. But anyhow, we’ve been talking about it since 1994.

The thing is, it is kind of like a macrocosmic quantum wave collapse, and the reality on the
other side of this collapse is going to depend upon the state in which humanity is in.

We need a large number, a huge number, of people who are in the right state of being able to
see. It’s not where you are that matters when this happens, it’s who you are and what you
see.

Who you are means Are you sold? And what you see means Can you really see the energies?

And that’s what this program is really designed to do. It’s to take people to that state of being
able to be in touch with their own higher self, their own me-in-the-future.

KC: That’s right. And we need a critical mass…

LKJ: We need a critical mass.

KC: ...in order for us to make this transition in a positive way, in order for the Earth and
humanity...
LKJ: Right, because, as I said before, their plan is to lock it into their little private, evil garden
where they rule over humanity and have their, you know... it’s Bosch’s Garden of Earthly
Delights.

KC: Right. But part of the manifestation of this, of going into The Wave and this change that’s
going to happen... and this is one other part of your work which is really important, which is
this comet cluster that is part of that. You know, we’re entering this area and it’s coming
towards us.

LKJ: Sure. As I said, a macrocosmic quantum wave collapse cannot happen other than
cataclysmically. However, there are possibilities that we have toyed with, that if there is a
sufficient amount of conscious energy that supports it, the possibility that the Earth can be
spared some of this real serious cataclysm exists.

So, I mean, I don’t want to give false hope. I only know that after all this research I know the
science. The science says it’s going to happen. That’s the hard science.

There’s going to be the day – it’s already happening – the magnetic field is degenerating. That
means that magma is going to start welling up under the oceans. It’s already happening
because it’s heating the oceans up. When the oceans start heating up, that means more
evaporation.

When that happens at the same time that the planet is being clouded by volcanic eruptions,
which is cooling the atmosphere, you have precipitation that comes down as snow – and the
geological record shows that the onset of every Ice Age was so sudden as to be unbelievable.

In other words, next winter could be the winter when, you know, a lot of undersea volcanoes
begin to erupt and dump magma into the oceans. A lot of evaporation takes place. If it
happens in the wintertime... if it happens in the wintertime that means that snow can fall in
amounts that are beyond your wildest imagining. It’s happened. It’s geologically a fact. It’s
happened repeatedly.

Can you imagine nine stories of snow in a single day?

I mean, what if one day you’re sitting there in your house and it starts to snow, and you’re
thinking: Oh, we’re going to get snowed in and tomorrow we’ll have to get the shovels out and
we’ll have to shovel the snow – and you wake up the next day and you’re under nine stories of
snow that has compacted into solid ice? And it never stops snowing, and it never warms up
again?

Think about it. That can happen, and it can happen at any time.

KC: Okay.

LKJ: That’s the science.

KC: I understand. But there is also a comet cluster headed this way, so talk about that.
LKJ: And that can happen. Now, the science shows that there was in the past a giant comet
that broke up into pieces and it terrorized people in the skies, and these are the origins of
religions. Read Victor Clube and Bill Napier; Cosmic Serpent and Cosmic Winter; and read
Firestone. There’s a lot of material.

KC: But the Cs have also talked about it.

LKJ: They were talking about this in the very beginning before I ever came to these books that
talk about this. Now, Clube and Napier had written about their Cosmic Serpent and so forth,
but kind of in a different way, but those books were not available to me at the time that the Cs
were talking about it.

It’s only as I continued to do research that I came upon the fact that there is an enormous
amount of scientific validation of what they have insisted is what’s going to happen, that there
is a cluster of comets in our solar system that cycles around, and it’s coming our way and
when it does…

KC: People mistake Nibiru for this.

LKJ: Yeah, this whole Nibiru, Planet X business, that’s, you know, that’s all distraction,
disinformation, to distract you from the real science. The real science is that these things,
most of them, many of them, can’t be seen until they impact because they’re like
carbonaceous bodies that have had the ice burned off of them, and they hit the atmosphere.

Can you imagine having thousands of Tunguska-like events all over the planet? The Earth is
turning and these things are coming like this [making circling motion with her hands] and they
enter the atmosphere and explode?

I mean, look at the Carolina Bays. The Carolina Bays... there were bays in Tunguska that
resembled the Carolina Bays. They’re from overhead explosions of this matter, and they cause
this elongated shallow formation in the ground, you know, from a shock wave hitting the
ground.

Okay, how many of them are there in America, of the Carolina Bays? There’s hundreds of
thousands of them. And that’s the time of the extinction of the megafauna. And there are
hundreds of thousands of dinosaur bones – or not dinosaur, but mastodon and mammoth and
all these creatures.

And mammoths... they were frozen standing on their feet, solid, because they happened to be
there when this…

Because when this happened, it also caused many volcanic eruptions. And these volcanoes
were heating the ocean. The water was evaporating as fast as it could evaporate and then the
clouding of the atmosphere and the explosions and everything were cooling everything
down...

And then there were these violent storms, very similar to this Day After Tomorrow or The
Ultimate Storm. This was written about in a book years ago called The Mother of Storms, and
then later on Whitley Strieber and what’s his face, they wrote a book about it. But the whole
idea that they were writing about was originally written about in this book, Mother of Storms.
So imagine these things happening. And this is basically the scenario that the Cs have
painted, but they’ve said we can possibly do something.

The science supports what they’re saying. That’s the bad news. The bad news is that the
science supports what the Cs have said.

KC: Okay. But we also are talking about actually the span of years when... we’re actually
arriving in it at this time. I know the Cs were talking about it back even when you first were
contacting them around ’94. So here we are in 2010. So we’re moving into this time and
you’re saying that the last time you talked to them there was a five-year window…

LKJ: Yeah, we have a five-year window.

KC: ...for the exact change, so to speak...

LKJ: We have a five-year window in which…

KC: [unclear]...because even the Camelot witnesses, we have a lot of witnesses that are also
substantiating this information. And so, what’s happening is we’re moving into this Event
Horizon, so to speak, in which we are going to approach a time in which consciousness may be
the only thing that saves us.

LKJ: This is true.

KC: And so that’s why we’re doing this interview and that’s really where push comes to shove,
because we want people to understand that it’s not only that there are events happening but
that you need to prepare yourself in a certain way. And that’s what you’re working towards at
this time.

LKJ: Absolutely that’s what we’re working towards. We have people that are going to be
teaching this breathing program. The meditation is very, very specific. It’s designed to
activate…

You know, for a person who doesn’t have a soul, it’s going to help them a lot because it’s
going to help them understand. It’s going to awaken their thirst for knowledge, at least, and
help them grow. Because people who don’t, you know, they can grow to the point where
eventually they transition to having a soul, eventually. They can build one, maybe.

But for people who have the shamanic blood line – and there are many shamans in the world
today who have not been activated – this will activate their true shamanic...

And we’re not talking Ayahuasca or any of that supernatural BS because a true shaman
doesn’t need a drug, and the shamanic experiences you have without drugs are so amazing. I
mean, I’ve had them. I’ve read about these people who try the drug way. Nothing they have
experienced, nothing they describe even touches what happens with the natural brain
chemistry when you’re in the shamanic initiation. So don’t buy that.
This is a technique that’s really going to awaken true shamans and other people. It will put
them in touch with yourself in the future in a very real way. And it will clean out your
emotional baggage, your programming…

KC: And get rid of stress, and the fear. Because we’re talking, we’re living in a world now
where actually, the Powers That Be…

LKJ: They want us all ready.

KC: They want fear to be part of, and it is part of everyday life. And so this breathing
technique, especially, is moving towards getting rid of, being able to deal with the fear.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: “Getting rid” would be maybe the wrong way to put it because… [overtalk/ inaudible]

LKJ: Getting into a state of alert watchfulness.

KC: Exactly.

LKJ: Because having fear... When you’re threatened, it’s fight-or-flight.

KC: This is what’s going to save your life.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: It’s turning that fear into this positive thing, action, and that becomes courage.

LKJ: Yeah.

KC: And so these techniques could be very valuable.

LKJ: These techniques are going to... Hey, the feedback we’ve been getting has been
marvelous, it’s been wonderful. We never dreamed, or I never... I mean, jeez, if I’d known it
was going to... You know, I created it just for myself. It never occurred to me somebody else
could do it or would do it, you know, that I could take this technique and I could teach it to
other people and that they could be having similar experiences.

I never thought... It’s like one of those things where you go, Duh! [slapping her forehead;
Kerry laughs] because all this time that’s been wasted since 1994...!

And maybe part of that is because of my lack of confidence in sharing these things, and
maybe that was part of the program that they tried to put into me that we talked about at the
beginning, to prevent me from sharing this with people because it is that powerful.

It really is that powerful.

KC: Okay. Laura, thank you very much for your service to humanity.

LKJ: Thank you.