Newswatch Magazine

Why I Buy Dead Companies

Contributed by Site Admin Friday, 10 September 2010

Jimoh Ibrahim, businessman and managing director, Global Fleet Group, speaks to Bala Dan Abu, executive editor, Maureen Chigbo, general editor, Chris Ajaero, assistant general editor, and Demola Abimboye, principal associate editor, on his business empire, his gains, his losses and his forays into politics.

Jimoh Ibrahim, businessman and managing director, Global Fleet Group, speaks to Bala Dan Abu, executive editor, Maureen Chigbo, general editor, Chris Ajaero, assistant general editor, and Demola Abimboye, principal associate editor, on his business empire, his gains, his losses and his forays into politics. Excerpts: Newswatch: Let us begin with this lecture you just delivered. What is the purpose of it? Ibrahim: The usual thing every Monday is for the CEO to give the staff lecture for about two hours. But in the past four weeks, I've been out (of the country) so, I haven't had the time to give the lecture. When I came in this afternoon, we worked for sometime and then tried to cover up. We talk on management, turnaround, organisational development and other issues. Newswatch: We suddenly began to hear about you not two long ago. How did you come into business and in such a very big way? Ibrahim: You can't just be hearing about me. I left the university 20 years ago. And Global Fleet is seven years old. The Bible says the eighth year is for harvest. Anything you are doing for seven years, the eighth is for result. And we are eight now. Twenty years after I left the University of Ife is not a joke. Within those 20 years, I've been to Harvard where I studied business. The technique now is 'acquire and grow.' When we acquire, we build it, get the right staff, the right equipment. These we do aside from the fact that we heavily believe in God the Almighty. Newswatch: You believe in acquisition rather than building? Ibrahim: Yes, there is nothing we built. We acquired all of them including this building from the NDIC. This building was the headquarters of areas boys on the Island but we have turned it to the headquarters of Global Fleet. When we came in, many of them had their rooms on various floors. So, we had to provide alternatives for them. When we started business, I've said it severally, we started with a debt equity loan of N500 million against my property in London. We used that loan and asked people who had petrol stations to sell to come forward. Over 700 people came forward. That money was enough to buy 30 petrol stations. And from there, we began to do turnaround activities. We improved ourselves in knowledge on turnaround. We then began to look at when we would be like G.E where you have G.E Insurance, G.E Mortgage, G.E Electronics. Now we have Global Fleet, NICON Insurance, NICON Luxury, etc. Very soon, we will have a common name. Newswatch: So, you intend to change the name of your outfits? Ibrahim: Exactly, so that we have a common name for all of them. That is the GE strategy and we copied that. Newswatch: You have become the grand master, dwarfing every other person. How have you done it? Ibrahim: The grace of God. More importantly, intellectual enquiries. What I discovered is that there are a lot of dead companies in Nigeria. And the focus I see for the younger generation is to acquire those companies and refocus them and life goes on. Those who made money yesterday were trading in goods - Papa Odutola was one of the outstanding examples. He was trading in tyres. Olorogun Michael Ibru was trading in fish. They won't sell until they knew the prices at which they bought and at which they should sell. The difference is their profit. But those who made money after them traded in invisible goods - selling shares. Now this time around, it's paper - things like future contracts, forward contracts. How many tyres, fish will you sell to make a billion Naira profit? So it doesn't work again in that side. Where it worked just before yesterday was in share trading. Some people bought at N50 and when it went to N120, they sold and took their profit. Now greater risk is coming into that because of credibility. So, those who will make money in the future after us will be on ideas. Newswatch: You have so many investments in Nigeria. Does that suggest that you believe so much in this country? Ibrahim: Yes, I believe so much in Nigeria. I am a Nigerian and I don't see any place like this outside Nigeria. I've been to Harvard for one year. Newswatch: You did that to … Ibrahim: (Cuts in) I did that because we needed to compete with other intellectual entrepreneurs. When I fly to Chicago and see Bill Gates landing, I need to ask what business he has there. If he flies to Nigeria, I need to ask what business he has here. David Dell said: "I am retiring at the age of 40, I've succeeded in locating my company in 48 countries across the world." Newswatch: In which countries are you now doing business? Ibrahim: We are already in Sao Tome and the United Kingdom. We are now in Ghana, we have got a banking licence.
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Newswatch: What do you have in Sao Tome? Ibrahim: An insurance company. Newswatch: Is it true you have an oil exploratory company? Ibrahim: No. I don't deal with oil wells. Those are capital intensive. I don't go into things that cannot happen during my lifetime. There was this company at Falomo, Ikoyi, a British company, that drilled for oil for 13 years. It could not find oil. It lost all its investment, all the time. But the moment it sold the company to another person, the person found oil the following year. Newswatch: How much investment did you have in Nigeria now? Ibrahim: I cannot quantify it because I don't know what I have beyond the cash in my hand. Newswatch: You are at a loss, you can't count? Ibrahim: That is not my focus now. My focus is to plant. It is not yet harvest time. When it is time to harvest, we will do that. But the focus now is to look for opportunities. For example, a foreigner came to Nigeria and invested money in Virgin Nigeria, brought everything. When he came, he was dressed in Yoruba dress with a Malla cap to match held our flag with a dummy of the plane. After some five years, he sold his company. He had his own reasons and we cannot blame him for that. But the implication to us was the international arena. We needed to go in and rescue the company. These are the adventures we need to go into. We are at a level where we had to invest in national interest. We had to come in and invest about $300 million. Newswatch: How do you react to the feeling by some people that the airline you just acquired will go the way of EAS you acquired some years back? Ibrahim: Forget about that. We are not negative thinkers. We've bought an airline with two aircraft, today, we have eight. By the time you are publishing, we will have 10. In 100 days of turnaround! People are now using Virgin Nigeria as a case study. When I was to pay a visit to Oxford, they asked me to send an e-mail where I should do my profile. Less than three hours after I did it, I got the invitation. Newswatch: There is something magical about your success. What is the secret? Ibrahim: What secret? You borrow from the bank, you pay back. (He brought out an advertorial of how he paid back loans from banks as at August 2009). There is nothing magical. Every month, you pay back what you borrowed. If you pay back don't you think the banks would want to continue to do business with you? What is magical about it? The business of the bank is to lend. Now, because of these financials, I don't need to borrow from Nigerian banks. We now have access to borrowing from the international market. Newswatch: It is one thing to borrow and another to use it well. Ibrahim: That is why we said intellectual capacity and leadership direction matter. If you borrow and go and buy a house in London, or America, or buy a yacht, the money will go off. The bank won't get it back and new people can't borrow again. Your job is to return what you borrow. All assets created by that money become yours. You can enjoy it forever. Newswatch: Some of your companies were listed as debtors when the CBN criminalised borrowing in the country. How do you see the banking reforms in the country? Ibrahim: I think one of the areas that Sanusi got it wrong was to talk about debtors. He didn't classify the debtors. He wasn't happy with certain debtors who will never pay back but there were some who are doing their genuine business. They will borrow and pay later. But everybody was lumped together. Actually, there is no reform that will not have its mistakes. But that shouldn't prevent people from going back to borrow and repay. And I think he responded by apologising that there were mix-ups in the figures, that people should go back and reconcile their figures. I still borrow from the system. I don't find it difficult to access credit. To me, what the bank reform is all about is credibility. Newswatch: The result was that some debtors paid up. How did you get enough to continue in business? Ibrahim: That is the area we said you can reschedule the debts. You don't have to pay in one deal because the money had been invested. For God's sake all these deals, who did I give the money to? I gave it to the federal government. NICON Hotel, Nigerian Re cost me N37 billion. If you add the N17 billion of Nicon Group, it cost me about N57 billion, at the interest rate of 15 percent. If you had given this guy 10 years, he will create more jobs and employ more people, and allow other people too who are not Jimoh Ibrahim, not Dangote to have access to freedom of borrowing and help develop the economy because the economy cannot be developed by Jimoh Ibrahim and Dangote alone. Newswatch: Some of the debtors were forgiven huge billions, some as huge as N7 billions by their banks. Why didn't you seek debt waiver? Ibrahim: I don't like debt forgiveness; I don't want any bank to give debt forgiveness. I also don't want banks to overcharge me. There are agreements we signed. If you go through some of the statements sent to me, you would see how excess charges were refunded to me. One bank even overcharged me by over N1.9 billion. Another bank overcharged us and I took that one to court. These are some of the areas I think if the banking reform is well coordinated we will not have problems again. Why will a bank overcharge me after paying interests?
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Newswatch: You believe in acquiring and growing dead companies. Some of these banks in which the CBN intervened last year are up for sale. Are you thinking of acquiring any of them? Ibrahim: No, I cannot buy any of the banks because they are tainted by litigations. You know I am a lawyer. I cannot buy something that the Supreme Court will describe as a Christmas gift. If you look at the case of Saraki and Kotoye and CBN when the bank did not charge consent fee for perfection of the title documents, the Supreme Court said that is was a Christmas gift. Newswatch: Do you foresee the possibility of these litigations preventing investors from buying the banks? Ibrahim: I think the CBN governor should have a rethink. If I were him, I will return the banks to the shareholders and give conditions to recapitalise. Honestly, that is the practice all over the world. The shareholders will not allow the CBN to sell them because they already have some litigation. If you look at the case of Ojukwu and Lagos State government, the court said executive lawlessness was tantamount to violation of the constitution. The court ordered the houses to be returned to Ojukwu. So, I don't want to go into that area. How can I put my money there and then the Supreme Court orders that it should be returned to Ibru or Akingbola? I have given this advice that if CBN believes Akingbola had taken properties worth N346 billion which may not be true or may be true, and Akingbola is saying 'it is my bank, I started it 30 years ago and built it to this level," call Akingbola to a table and say notwithstanding the criminal charges we have against you, forfeit your properties to the bank. Let the bank be the owner. Now, Intercontinental Bank will have value for N346 billion. What it means is that Akingbola will have his shares intact; the shareholders will have their shares intact. Now that the properties are with one bank, now give an order to sell those properties in one year and turn them to cash. Now form an Asset Management Company as CBN has done now, let it give you the cash equivalent and give it to the bank. The properties then move to the asset management company which will sell and return the money to CBN. You have your peace and everybody will be participating. If you don't want Akingbola as managing director, under the Companies and Allied Matters Act, CAMA, a 10 percent owner of a company has the right to a director on the board. If Akingbola had 40 percent of the bank, he has four people; and if others don't have up to 40 percent, he will produce the chairman. But if the Banks and Other Financial Institutions Act, BOFIA, says CBN must approve the chairmanship appointment and it says it doesn't want Akingbola, then, he can send in his nominee. That solves the problem. Newswatch: Don't you think there were some things wrong with the way the banks' chief executives ran the banks before they were sacked? Ibrahim: I think there were little bits of issues I was worried about, especially the issue of so many subsidiaries. I was wondering where was the money coming from for the subsidiaries? Definitely, it must come from the profits of the banks which is capitalised into equities. But in this sense, it was the depositors' money. And who owns the subsidiaries? If it is 100 percent owned by the banks, sell the subsidiaries. But the issue is: are they viable? The job of a banker is not to set up subsidiaries. Leave that to entrepreneurs. But when you are buying properties then you are competing with other entrepreneurs. There was the case of a bank managing director who got a proposal from a customer to set up a cellular outfit. The next thing he did was to doctor the proposal and set up a telecoms company. This is not right. The customer applied for loan based on the proposal. This is unethical but not criminal. There is a difference between criminality and unethical practice and the stealing which under the Criminal Code is 'with intent to deprive the owner permanently of his property.' Where is the intention of Akingbola or Ibru to deprive the banks permanently of their profits? And the bank chiefs are part owners. It is difficult to prove sometimes. But if the CBN has a better way to prove it without any prejudice to the cases in court, it can go to any extent to prove it. Newswatch: Have you at any time regretted any of the companies you acquired? Ibrahim: All of them are regrettable. If I knew the extent of work we have to put into these companies was of this magnitude, I would have declined. All of them like NICON Insurance. All that advertisements they are doing about insurance companies are bravado. Somebody comes to insure his car for N3,000, if armed robbers take the car away, he will collect N2.5 million. What business will the insurance company do with N3,000 that will generate N2.5m? Now, you have an airline, you know the cost of maintaining an airline is dollar-based and you are charging the customer in Naira. How do you make profit? You need extra intellectual adventure, extra turnaround, extra commitment. When you talk about staff salaries in the Airline, this is between N200 million and N300 million per month. If you carry customers to Abuja at N20,000, how will you meet up? You need about N400 million for fuel, N400 million for spare parts and another N400 million to service the loan. Who are you working for? These are all the indices. If one is not careful, you will die poor. It is very challenging. If you have petrol station in Owo, I need to move fuel in a tanker there. Sometimes the driver involved would park on the road and steal half of it. I remember one of our drivers who phoned that the tanker caught fire, a brand new tanker of about N18 million. I got the police to go there and see what happened. They called back and confirmed that it is was burnt but that they would detain the driver because he was able to recover the extra tyre. They asked how he did it. After about two hours of questioning, the driver confessed that he sold 15,000 littres and set the tanker ablaze. You can imagine how many of these we've lost and yet when you want to deal with the case, people say the rich wants to punish the poor. And the bank doesn't want to hear that the truck caught fire. The computer calculates your interest at the end of the month. So I think this is an adventure. An entrepreneur must be well prepared. Newswatch: In spite of all these troubles, you have kept on acquiring. You have even gone into the media industry. So when will it end?
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Ibrahim: I cannot stop. The only thing I can do is to draw a time frame, make sure the companies stabilise and then quit. I am already in it, in a deep sea. You have to find a way for survival. You cannot think of trekking back or that you cannot continue the journey. So acquisition after turnaround becomes very profitable such that it assists other companies that refuse to recover because you have a group cash flow that helps. Again my age, I am in my 40s. I need to help my country. If I am 55, I can think of retiring. This is the age my country needs me; what will I be doing? If I am not doing what I am doing now, I will be lecturing in the university. Newswatch: You are investing heavily in the media with the acquisition of National Mirror and Sketch. When will they take off? Ibrahim: We did not acquire Sketch. We acquired Mirror. It will soon come out. We are doing the training. We have installed the press in six locations in the country. Newswatch: What do you want to achieve with it? Ibrahim: Why I took the Mirror was part of my own contribution to the development of the media. When we had problems, the media rose to the occasion telling the truth and asking for justice. We are indebted to the profession. But rather than donating money to media houses, why not set up one and employ journalists to run it? Newswatch: What happened to the Sketch deal? Ibrahim: We just did expression of interest, it is not yet ready for acquisition, but when it is ready we will buy. I think somebody saw us when we went to submit the letter and he went to press. You know I have a problem now. I visited a friend sometime ago, Reuben, a motor dealer. He was very excited. We had lunch. But he called me later that his staff gathered in the office to ask whether I had come to buy the company. He told them his company was not for sale. I was greatly embarrassed. Newswatch: Most successful businessmen are not contented, they also want political power. We know you will go into politics. How soon? Ibrahim: Political power is natural. But I tell you I will not contest for the governorship of Ondo State if Mimiko performs. If he doesn't, even if I don't contest, we will remove him. Whatever it takes, even if it takes my life. We are just two million people in Ondo State, so I see no reason why the governor wouldn't perform. Newswatch: Why are you campaigning for President Goodluck Jonathan? Ibrahim: Oh yes, Jonathan is my age. I don't want to vote for a 70-year-old man. Jonathan wants the private sector to survive. Today, all over the world, the economy is about the private-public sector. But here, the old people are saying the public-private sector. I don't understand the meaning of that. It is the private sector that must lead the economy. When you allow free market economy, things will move on very well. But people don't want to adjust to changes. You cannot be paying salary by subvention. You must generate your salary. Jonathan believes in it. He wants to sell the Power Holding Company of Nigeria. I am not interested in that. But the idea is good and the Ministry of Finance that said it is going to provide guarantee for the funding means the economy is in the hands of private individuals to rule it. Former President Olusegun Obasanjo gave the telecoms sector to private individuals and now, each Nigerian has access to the telephone. May be with the PHCN, we may now have metres in our pockets. Jonathan believes in those reforms and the economy is doing well. If you give him the chance, I believe the economy must develop. The late President Yar'Adua did very well. He brought the seven-point agenda and whether you like it or not, he laid the foundation for the rule of law. Now, before you do anything to anybody, he says he is going to court. People are now conscious of their rights. Now Jonathan came in and said he wants to be cautious about economic deregulation. If the banks were not recapitalised who will borrow us the billions we have been talking about? Before recapitalisation, a bank's capital base was N2 billion. If you pull the total money in the banks together, it wasn't enough to buy Air Nigeria. If you don't recapitalise the banks and open up the economy for foreign investors and provide opportunities to access foreign credit, how will the economy develop; how do we employ the university graduates? The universities produce a million people for us to employ every nine months. Where are the employment opportunities? And we've been told now that the universities will be producing three million people every nine months for us to employ. Where are the jobs? With all my efforts, I've employed 21,000. We need to develop so many of the Dangotes, Adenugas, Jimoh Ibrahims and allow them access to credit to develop and build the economy under a deregulated environment. Jonathan did not disturb the working of the EFCC. They are doing their jobs and everything is going on well. And Jonathan doesn't have the propensity to acquire and acquire. I don't know where his properties are. Under him you can abuse any government authority; PHCN workers can go on strike. Newswatch: Do you think Jonathan can overcome all the obstacles from the North? Ibrahim: It will be embarrassing if Jonathan thinks that there will be no obstacles to becoming president of Nigeria. Even when we were doing a chieftaincy title in my village, people were burying goats, cows. We are talking of the president of Nigeria and you say there will be no challenges. He is a PhD holder, he knows the challenges. It is normal. But already, he has block votes in the South-West and South-East and we expect him to have about 90 percent vote in the SouthSouth. Whatever you get from the North is enough. And I don't think the North is desperate. What they are saying is that in leadership, we have been up to this level and we don't want to be truncated. And I believe if adequate arrangement is made for them, what are the problems. For instance, in 2015 if power shifts to the North, what is bad in it? Northerners are good leaders, the only thing is that they must realise that we have to coexist. I don't think we should take this thing of
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where you are from into government. Otherwise that is the beginning of the end of Nigeria. Newswatch: What is your assessment of the president? Do you think he is lily-livered? Ibrahim: How can he be lily-livered? The president is like Obama. All Obama knows is work, work and work. Obama controls 5l states and Jonathan 36. Newswatch: What we mean is whether he can be firm and take difficult decisions. Ibrahim: He will take it. The issue with Jonathan is that he wants to be democratic and that is good for us. Jonathan is accommodating everything. If the people say you are not good, he removes you. When reporters do credible editorials on people in government and say you are not good, when Jonathan sees it on his face book, he will check you out. That is government listening to the people. Although I believe there should be limitation, especially in critical cases where government's integrity is at stake, the fact remains that we are in for democracy. And I think every educated youth will want to vote Jonathan. When Obasanjo took over, the airports were dry. I think Aborishade recorded four or five crashes. Obasanjo was unhappy with it. He went abroad and started talking with entrepreneurs whom he didn't have in his country. Obasanjo went and begged Richard Branson to come and fly the national carrier. Today, the economy has produced many Richard Bransons. And people are still dwelling in ignorance whether their sons are not richer than Branson. I can name 10. Branson himself knows they are his masters when it come to this entrepreneurial acumen. Newswatch: You are a lawyer, and we have seen this nightmare over the allowances of legislators. What do you say? Ibrahim: I think in fairness, their salary is too much. I think this has to do with their commitment to their environment. You see a senator who goes home and is confronted with request from his constituents: my wife or children are sick. But I think we should provide them with jobs rather than cash. What the National Assembly should have done is to channel that money to constituency projects and ensure that there is a monitoring committee that implements them. That will take away the pressure from them. Newswatch: These allegations by workers of the Corporate Affairs Commission, CAC, that you have conflict of interest etc. How do you react to this? Ibrahim: I don't want to talk about this because I've come to a maturity whereby if I talk about certain things, this nation will go on fire. What I can say at this time is this: has the CAC ever produced a chairman who did not have a company? Are members of staff of CAC not having their own companies registered with CAC? Where does conflict of interest occur? Two, they say I interfere in the day today activities of the Commission. What should I interfere with? Bode George is serving a two-year jail sentence because he refused to interfere. He went to the board and approved. Now, they said there was contract splitting. He said it came about because of the urgency to decongest the ports. But the court said no, it was against the law. When the late President Yar'Adua appointed me as board chairman for CAC, I was in the village to bury my great-grandmother. He told me, "Ibrahim, I want the CAC to work the way your companies work. Please do your best to help that place." I said yes, sir. The chat was barely for two minutes. It was after that that I asked people what CAC meant. I thought it was Christ Apostolic Church. The president charged me to do everything to turn the place around. So if there is a court case in future, I cannot distance myself from it. Somebody said there was abuse of privilege or promotions, chairman what should we do? Suppose government sets up a commission of enquiry, will I say I did not act because I was not supposed to interfere? With the other issue - tramppling on the rights of workers- what are their rights? Salaries? Are we owing them? When I came into that place, the money they had in bank was N1.2 billion. By the time you pay N500 million monthly salary, it remains N700 million. If they continue like that, we will go back to government to ask for subventions. The first thing I did was to block all the loopholes such as where you installed generator with N29 million, where you buy automatic folder file for N281 million for 100,000 copies. Where do you put the files? All these areas we blocked. And then we started the process of change and reform and then we want to fill vacant positions. Naturally, people will say no to changes. Then there are other reasons why this strike happened that cannot be said on the pages of a newspaper. So you see the hand of Jacob, the voice of Esau. But at the appropriate time, we will let you know. As at today, we have about N4.8 billion in the account. And I am just one year, three months in office. If you are collecting N4.8 billion and you want salary increase of N200 million to make it N700 million, I will pay it. The N4.8 billion can carry me for six months. But I have vowed that never in my time will CAC go back to government to draw from the federation account to pay workers' salaries. Newswatch: How did you perform the magic? Ibrahim: We did a bit of turnaround. The first thing I asked was how much do they use to run the commission? It was N110 million over N100. That means for every N100 made, the commission spent N110, a deficit of N10. I said you don't run a company like that. You go to N60 to N40; meaning that for every N100 you make, spend N60, and keep N40 for government. If you can recruit more people and the N60 covers it, fine. If you want to go to London 10 times and the N60 covers it, good. We will not control expenditure pattern on the N60 but on the N40, it must be returned to government by December. But in the event that you need to spend more, say to go to N70 to N30, ask for board approval. They accepted the N60:N40 proposal. They began to adjust. On promotion, I accepted to promote, those I can but that I will not promote those who are due in 2010 and sign it now because they have not written the examination and management has not written the board. That is post dated promotion.
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I cannot do that. But I think that has been resolved with the workers. But the issue of corruption, we are going to fight it, and nobody can stop us. Newswatch: It is going to be difficult? Ibrahim: Whether they like it or not, for the time I will be there, we will fight it. I don't want to stay a day longer. Newswatch: Corruption has eaten deep into Nigerians. We are 50 years now. How do you think we can fight it? Ibrahim: The EFCC approach is very good, neat not vindictive. If your issue comes up, the EFCC will write you. They have a committee that would have diagnosed the issues even before inviting you. They would have seen links in the allegations before inviting you. You clear yourself. If they are convinced, that is the end of it. If not, they move forward. For instance, when we had this issue of taxation in the aviation industry, they invited us. I told them that an item like lease of aircraft which is foreign is not subject to tax unless the lessor has a representative office in Nigeria. We reconciled that. Secondly, withholding tax of five percent is payable to the state. If I sell a ticket in Warri, it is payable to Delta State government, not federal government. You cannot tell me to draw a cheque to pay Abuja. They looked at the law and agreed. On the remaining areas, we agreed we are liable. We then asked for their payment schedule. Nobody wants to close down your business. What is so special about EFCC inviting Jimoh Ibrahim? Anybody can be invited. Even sometimes when I am not invited, I visit there. When the issue of bank debt came up, I went with all my letters and was cleared. Newswatch: In the past one year, banks have refused to lend to businessmen, given the banking reforms of the CBN. How has that affected your group? Ibrahim: There is a recession. It is a global thing. If banks are not lending, I envisaged that a long time ago. We operate a group cash flow that can withstand any request of our subsidiaries. But it is not that banks are not lending, the problems is that they are afraid to lend on longer terms. But Sanusi has come out to say he is reviewing the Prudential Guidelines to see how they can accommodate long-term lending. I think that is OK. So sectors like the aviation industry get 15-year loan at seven percent backed with adequate collaterals. The collaterals could be the aircraft. That should not be a problem to the lender. In fact, we just secured about $300 million from abroad. What we did was to have asset debenture on some of our companies. Now EximBank of America can lend you 40 percent of your balance sheet if you are a group without any local bank providing collaterals for the lendings. If my balance sheet is $1 billion, I can borrow from EximBank $400 million. Newswatch: You have a mission in business. How close are you to realising it? Ibrahim: We are very close because I will soon retire. When I am 45 in about two years to come, I will leave management. I will only be on the board for five years as chairman, come to board four times a year to satisfy the legal requirement. After five years, I will leave the board and face other things. All our companies are running without me. The airline, passengers are boarding and flying all along the West Coast. I am not there. Newswatch: There was a change of government in Ondo. Has that affected the companies you acquired there? Ibrahim: No. The governor understands what the business climate is. He is even abroad looking for investors. In fairness to him, he has not given me any crisis. But if tomorrow morning, he wants the hotels back, he can have them. I only have two staff there doing the turning around. Those staff can hand over. I will just make a telephone call. The hotel is on lease. If the lease expires and he doesn't want to renew it, no problem. Newswatch: Are you growing any of your children to succeed you? Ibrahim: Unfortunately, my children have a different approach. My first born wants to be a pastor and in his room are two giant Bibles. The next to him wants to be a professor and already they call him Prof. in school. My daughter, I don't know what she wants to do. The last one, I don't think that one can run business. He likes dressing to match, doesn't wear pants that don't match the clothes. I cannot give my companies to that kind of person. I think those who will run the companies are in this corporation. I don't encourage family to come in. Let those inside run it, declare profits and let the family go and spend it. Newswatch: What has been the greatest problem in running your companies? Ibrahim: Human resources. We have to train them. What the universities give us to employ is substandard and we need to train and retrain them. Newswatch: What is the place of God in your business? Ibrahim: Number one.

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