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thread : what do you do for... clerics?
started at 05-10-06 07:24 pm by nyaricus
visit at http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161828
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[post 1]
author : nyaricus
date : 05-10-06 07:24 pm
title : what do you do for... clerics?

dogmoon requested me to continue these what do you do threads, so folks here's the
next installment.

well, the last two threads are perhaps lost to the annals of history (although i
am planning to do a take-two sometime in the future), which leaves us with the
pressing question of what you do for clerics.

well, is it something as simple as using some of the other domains in the spell
compendium or are you like me and you've completely (or plan to) redone the cleric
over?

what do you do?

what do you do for bards and barbarians were lost in the crash and will be
restarted after we get through to the wizard class. thanks for your patience.

what do you do for... clerics? (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=161828)

part 3 of my house ruled classes series

what do you do for... druids? (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=164617)

part 4 of my house ruled classes series

what do you do for... fighters? (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=167223)

part 5 of my house ruled classes series

what do you do for... monks? (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=167689)

part 6 of my house ruled classes series

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[post 2]
author : tonguez
date : 05-11-06 10:19 am

i've renamed clerics to templars (ie knights of the temple) emphasising their
militant aspects. on the fluff side clerics are all low ranking members of
religious orders attached to temples and lead by paladins.

the religious aspects are attended to by the priest are homebrew class which bears
no resembalnce to the cleric

priests have the abilities to speak the words of the divine to effect people,
beasts, spirits and even objects
word of authority - the ability compel others, to inspire, to calm the masses, to
command, to rebuke (includes turn undead/spirits etc)
word of knowledge/wisdom - the ability to discerne and to understand with divine
insight, visions, knowledge of tongues and detection of the unseen
word of power the ability to speak blessings upon others, to sanctify and also to
curse, to heal or to wound, to give stength (buff) or to take it away
domain - the divine boon given to the priest to evoke and channel the power of
their god

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[post 3]
author : dog moon
date : 05-11-06 01:30 pm

hrm. well, i haven't actually thought about changing them until just this moment,
but my changes aren't going to be very big. essentially, they're going to deal
more with what their deity deals with. so the goddess of plants, the god of war,
and the god of civilization aren't all going to turn/rebuke undead because those
aren't their greatest enemies [on a side note, i've already done the same for
paladins].

btw, were you going to put these into a .pdf? guess i should search the caches
for the first two, unless someone already has them.

edit: bah, could only find the second page of the barbarian one, which is like the
last 4 posts of 44...

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[post 4]
author : aus_snow
date : 05-11-06 01:55 pm

for actual d&d (well, the closest i get to that), clerics have been templars for
quite some time - basically the same class though, only without heavy armour
proficiency, with a few domain powers altered, and with a few extra options for
different 'builds' (swapping out some things, and some others in).

then there's the priest, which is basically the cloistered cleric from unearthed
arcana (or the online srd - either way).

for other types of d20/ogl games, i have a number of 3rd-party classes, homebrewn
variants and 'new' classes that are somewhat related to the cleric i guess, but
probably not closely enough to warrant mentioning individually here.

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[post 5]
author : el-remmen
date : 05-11-06 02:12 pm

below i have re-posted my rules for "priests" (which replace both clerics and
druids):

you can read about all the specific types i have worked out by check out the
classes page (http://aquerra.wikispaces.com/classes) of the aquerra.wiki
(http://aquerra.wikispaces.com/)
--------------------------

the priest class

the priest class completely replaces the cleric and druid classes as described in
phb v.3.5, and represents the greatest change in an aquerra campaign from the core
rules.

each god (or set of gods) has its own variant priest class with its own abilities,
spell list, powers, and limitations.

below are some of the basic changes to the class, and a explanation of the format
used to detail the specific priest classes.

there are two basic kinds of priests. druids/changers and clerics.

druids/changers are more based on the druid class, and are priests that
eventually learn to take the form of animals sacred to their god by means of the
wildshape ability.
clerics/channelers are more traditional priests which can channel energy
(positive or negative), which is most often used to turn/rebuke/control undead,
but not all priests have power over undead, using the energy from other uses. some
can do both.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alignment: typically priests must be the same alignment as their god, however,
some priesthoods are allowed more leeway in their alignment. if at any time a
priest's alignment changes to one not allowed to the priesthood, he or she becomes
an ex-priest.

racial restrictions: as different gods serve the worshipping needs of different

races, there was usually racial limitations of some kind on who can join a
priesthood and serve the god. however, exceptions are sometimes possible (consult
your dm).

multi-class restrictions: often times a great amount of focus and dedication are
asked of those who would join a priesthood, limiting how much time, study and
training a priest can dedicate to another class. there are four kinds of possible
restrictions.

none: the character may multi-class freely with any other class allowed to the
priesthood (see allowed multi-class combinations below).
parity: the character's priest level must always be at least equal to the
combination of any other classes the character has adopted. if the character joins
the priesthood after already having two or more levels one of more classes, he may
bot advance in those other classes until doing so would not bring the combination
of other class levels higher than priest level. for example, a character who is
fighter 3, rogue 2 that joins a priesthood with this restriction would not be able
to advance in fighter or rogue until after achieiving 6th level in his priest
class.
dominance: the character's priest class must always be at least one level above
the combination of any other classes.
absolute : upon gaining his first level in this priest class he may never again
advance in any other class, or else become an ex-priest.

note: some priesthoods may have one kind of restriction for some class
combinations and a different one for another.
allowed multi-class combinations: this is the list of classes the character is
allowed to advance in once joining the priesthood. if there are any restrictions
on which classes the character was allowed to have levels in when adopting the
priest class they will be listed here as well. it is important to note, that
unless a character becomes an ex-priest, he is expected to follow all the
guidelines, taboos, ethos and restrictions of the priesthood no matter what the
combination of class and levels might be.

weapons proficiencies: any and all weapon proficiences the character gains for
taking levels in this class are listed here. in addition, any restrictions on
weapons members of the priesthood may use or learn to use will be listed here as
well. any such restrictions are followed regardless of any other class levels the
character may have.

preferred weapon: this is the weapon preferred by the god and/or priesthood. when
casting the spell spiritual weapon, it always takes the form of this weapon.

armor proficiencies: any and all armor proficiences the character gains for taking
levels in this class are listed here. in addition, any restrictions on armor
members of the priesthood may use or learn to use will be listed here as well. any
such restrictions are followed regardless of any other class levels the character
may have.

skill points at 1st level: (3 + int modifier) x 4. most of the priest classes
grant 3 skill points as their base, though a few grant more, and even fewer grant
less.
skill points at each additional level: 3 + int modifier. most of the priest
classes grant 3 skill points at each level, though a few grant more, and even
fewer grant less.

class skills: each priesthood has its own list of class skills based on the
portfolio of the god and the role the priesthood plays.

domains: these are the domains the priest may choose from. most often there is
one domain all members of the priesthood must take and they can choose other from
a list of two or three. sometimes, the priest may simply choose two from a list of
three or four. it is important to note that in aquerra priests do not gain the
domain power listed with each domain in phb v.3.5. in addition, most of the
domains have been changed (if some only slightly) from those listed in phb v.3.5.
spells from the domain lists may only be prepared as a domain spell unless it also
appears on the specific priest class' spell list.

spontaneous casting: many gods allow their priests to spontaneously exchange a

prepared spell for a spell of equal or lower level from one of their specific
domains. this takes no extra time to accomplish, but may only be done once per day
for each spell level. also, a spell gained as a domain spell may not be traded out
in this fashion. generally, it is priesthoods designated as warrior-priests (like
militants of anhur) that do not gain this ability.

spell lists: each priesthood has its own spell list based on the god's portfolio
and the priesthood's role in the world. note that the same spell can be two
different levels on two different spell lists, and a spell might be one level on a
domain list and another level on the main spell list. unlike what is listed under
cleric in phb v.3.5, priests do not automatically gain the ability to trade out
prepare spells to spontaeously cast healing spells. (see granted powers below).

time of prayer: priests must pray for/prepare spells within one hour before and
after the time listed here. preparing spells requires one hour regardless of the
number of spells being prepared when done at this time, otherwise it takes 10
minutes per spell level per spell to prepare a priest spell in a spell slot left
open. once prepared, priests may not change a spell in a slot except at the normal
prayer time.

powers/abilities: all priesthoods gain some form of granted power in addition to

their spell casting ability. for priests, these granted powers usually break down
to two minor powers, and one moderate or greater ability that functions by using
up a turn undead attempt (called channeling). most of the time, activating a power
that works through the channeling of positive (or negative) energy is a standard
action and required brandishing of your god's holy symbol, but occasionally
channeling is used to augment an attack or spell, in which case it is done as a
simultaneous action with the action it augments, and the holy symbol need only be
worn, not brandished. the individual priesthood character entries mention which it
is. druids/changers get a wider variety of powers spread out over their level
advancement, most of which are related to their ability to change shape.

restrictions/taboos: these are the priesthood�s limits as determined by custom,

god�s power, portfolio and the priest�s race or level. limits can range from being
unable to turn undead, to a very strict code of behavior, or something technical,
like a level limit. priests that violate these strictures may lose access to some
or all of their spells and/or granted powers until they atone. flagerant or
repeated violation may lead to the character becoming an ex-priest.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ex-priests
a priest that repeatedly or flagrantly violates a lesser restriction, or who
violates one of the greater tenets of his church becomes an ex-priest. an ex-
priest loses all access to spell-casting and all granted powers. he may not
advance further as a priest. in some rare cases, a priest may atone and regain, if
not his position in the church, then at least his standing with his god. these
priests are called pariahs.

occasionally, an ex-priest can adopt a new god more in line with his new point of
view, but such things usually require a great quest and/or sacrifice to prove
service to the new god and church.

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[post 6]
author : korimyr the rat
date : 05-11-06 05:30 pm

they're spontaneous wis+cha-- like the favored soul in reverse-- casters. they
pick a primary domain and four secondary domains at first level, with one spell
per level automatically coming from their primary domain and half their spells
known coming from their secondary domains.

they get to pick an extra domain power, from their chosen domains, at 6th, 11th,
and 16th class levels.

in return for all this raw power, their hd drops to d6, they have poor bab, and
they have to deal with asf like wizards and sorcerors do.

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[post 7]
author : aaron l
date : 05-12-06 05:13 am

i only use clerics for one religion, the militant mystic knights of the church.
the true priests of the religion are experts and archivists.

other religions use shugenja, druids, ardents, divine minds, and even sorcerers as
priests.

clerics only serve one religion in my world, but then again i dont use the typical
d&d polytheistic/polypantheonic religious setup with multiple omnipotent gods,
either.

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[post 8]
author : nyaricus
date : 05-12-06 05:31 pm

btw, were you going to put these into a .pdf? guess i should search the caches
for the first two, unless someone already has them.

edit: bah, could only find the second page of the barbarian one, which is like the
last 4 posts of 44...
i had the same results :\

i said it before - i am planning to make a pdf - but we'll have to re-do the
barbarian and bard threads. alas, but what can one do?

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[post 9]
author : ruleslawyer
date : 05-12-06 06:40 pm

reasonably priesthood-specific clerics (although, for my new ih campaign, there

are no clerics; "clerics" are just arcanists with initiate feats that allow them
access to deity-specific spells). my cleric may bear suspicious resemblance to
another d20 class of your acquaintance... ;)

da basics for d&d:

hd: d6
skills (4 + int modifier points/level): concentration (con), craft (int),
decipher script (int), diplomacy (cha), heal (wis), intimidate (cha), knowledge
(the planes) (int), knowledge (religion) (int), profession (wis), sense motive
(wis), speak language (none), and spellcraft (int).

patron deities and class skills: a cleric who chooses a particular patron deity
may add a skill or skill to the cleric class skills listed above. see deities for
more information.

bab: poor
saves: good fort & will, poor ref

spells: as normal but with no "+1" bonus domain spells

class features
1st: channel energy (1d8+level), divine feat pool, granted power
2nd: divine gift (lesser)
3rd: -
4th: channel energy (2d8+level)
5th: granted power
6th: -
7th: channel energy (3d8+level)
8th: -
9th: -
10th: channel energy (4d8+level), granted power
11th:-
12th: divine gift (greater)
13th: channel energy (6d8+level)
14th: -
15th: granted power
16th: channel energy (8d8+level)
17th: -
18th: -
19th: channel energy (10d8+level)
20th: granted power

weapon and armor proficiency: clerics are proficient with all simple weapons, with
their deity's favored weapon, and with light armor.

aura (ex): a cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly
powerful aura corresponding to the deity�s alignment (see the detect evil spell
for details).

spells: a cleric has access to all spells with the universal descriptor [ae/au
simple spells: assume these are the basic sorts of spells], and all spells with
the descriptors corresponding to the domains listed for his patron deity. however,
his alignment may restrict him from casting certain spells opposed to his moral or
ethical beliefs; see chaotic, evil, good, and lawful spells, below.

additionally, good clerics (and neutral clerics of good deities) treat complex
spells with the positive energy descriptor as if they were simple spells, and evil
clerics (and neutral clerics of evil deities) treat complex spells with the
negative energy descriptor as if they were simple spells. a cleric who is neither
good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil must choose whether to gain
this preferential access to spells with the positive energy descriptor, or those
with the negative energy descriptor. once the player makes this choice, it cannot
be reversed. this choice also determines whether the cleric channels positive or
negative energy (see below).

a cleric�s spells have only mental and verbal components, which imposes no spell
failure chance due to armor. to ready or cast a spell, a cleric must have a wisdom
score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. the difficulty class for a saving
throw against a cleric�s spell is 10 + the spell level + the cleric�s wisdom
modifier.

like other spellcasters, a cleric can cast only a certain number of spells of each
spell level per day. his base daily spell slot allotment is given on table: the
cleric. in addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high wisdom
score.

clerics meditate or pray for their spells. each cleric must choose a time at which
he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his
daily allotment of spell slots. time spent resting has no effect on whether a
cleric can regain spell slots. a cleric
spells during his daily meditation.
chaotic, evil, good, and lawful spells:
descriptor (chaos, evil, good, or law),
alignment component associated with the
may only change his allotment of readied
in order to cast a spell with an alignment
a cleric or his deity must have the
spell in question.

channel energy (sp): a cleric can call upon either positive energy or negative
energy and bestow that energy upon himself or another creature. with a touch, a
good cleric can heal 1d8 hit points + his level a number of times per day equal to
his wisdom bonus; clerics with no wisdom bonus can use this ability once per week.
likewise, an evil cleric can inflict the same amount of damage.

at 4th level, the amount of healing (or damage) increases to 2d8 points + the
cleric�s level and continues to increase every three levels thereafter: 7th level
3d8 + level, 10th level 4d8 + level, 13th level 6d8 +level, 16th level 8d8 +
level, and 19th level 10d8 + level. these changes increase the amount of healing,
not the number of times used. for example, if a cleric has a wisdom bonus of +3,
when he is 1st level, he can infuse someone with life three times per day, each
time healing 1d8+1 points. at 4th level, he can still heal only three times per
day, but each time now heals 2d8+4 points of damage.

divine feat pool: at 1st level, a cleric gets a divine feat pool, which he can use
to power various abilities granted by taking the appropriate feats. the pool
contains a number of divine tokens equal to 3 + the cleric's charisma modifier.
this number of tokens can be increased by taking the extra divine tokens feat. a
cleric's token pool refreshes after a night's rest and meditation.

granted power: at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th, and 25th level, the cleric gains a
special power granted by his deity. these powers depend on the cleric's choice of
patron deity.

divine gift (su): once per day, a 2nd-level or higher cleric can use his
connection with the divine to draw on the power of his deity and infuse it within
himself. he must be touching his holy symbol or something associated with his
deity's portfolio to activate this ability. he gains a divine bonus equal to half
his level. the cleric can add this bonus to any d20 roll he makes in the following
round. he can impart this gift to an ally he touches during the following round
(the ally must use the bonus in that round). he can even divide the bonus among up
to five allies that he can reach during the round, giving each a portion of the
bonus as he decides. thus, a 10th-level cleric could grant a +2 bonus to two
allies and a +1 bonus to another.

starting at 12th level, the gift�s divine bonus lasts 1 round per four cleric
levels (maximum 5 rounds). thus, an 18th-level cleric could grant a 4-round divine
bonus of +9 to one ally (or himself), or +3 to three allies, or +5 to one ally and
+1 to four others. each round, those granted the gift can use the bonus on any one
d20 roll of their choosing.

bonus languages: a cleric�s bonus language options include celestial, abyssal, and
infernal (the languages of good, chaotic evil, and lawful evil outsiders,
respectively). these choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to
the character because of his race.

ex-clerics
a cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god loses all
spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and
proficiency with simple weapons. he cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of
that god until he atones (see the atonement spell description).
a sample deity: bane, the black lord (fr)

cleric title: dreadmaster

domains: charm, destruction, evil, law, strength, suffering

additional skills: gather information

favored weapon: morningstar

granted powers:

* 1st level: insidious insight (ex). dreadmasters gain +2 to gather information

and sense motive checks.

* 5th level: dominating aura (su). a dreadmaster is immune to fear effects

(magical or otherwise). enemies within 20 feet + 10 feet/5 levels of a dreadmaster
suffer a -4 morale penalty on saving throws against fear effects.

* 10th level: enhanced leadership. free leadership feat or +4 bonus to leadership

score. a dreadmaster does not suffer the -2 cumulative leadership penalty for
causing the death of a cohort for one cohort per each dreadmaster level above 10th
(up to a total of five dead cohorts at 10th level).

* 15th level: fanatical loyalty. followers and cohorts of the dreadmaster become
fanatically loyal to the dreadmaster; only bane himself can inspire greater
loyalty in them. they will not balk at life-threatening actions or actions that
would normally lie outside their moral compunctions and normal behavior if the
dreadmaster asks them to perform such actions. spells that the dreadmaster has
cast upon his cohorts that normally grant a saving throw or saving throw bonus if
the subject is asked to take a life-threatening actions or actions contrary to her
nature do not do so if the subject is fanatically loyal to the dreadmaster.

* 20th level: additional cohort. the dreadmaster attracts a special cohort in

addition to any cohort already gained. if a leader loses this special cohort, he
can generally replace it, according to his current leadership score. it takes time
(1d4 months) to recruit a replacement. because of the lawful nature of bane,
special cohorts who are mutually inimical by type, alignment, or nature will not
be attracted to the same dreadmaster. dungeon masters can use the "example
dreadmaster special cohorts" table to select special cohorts gained through this
ability, or select cohorts of their own choosing or crafting.

creature alignment cohort level equivalent

doppleganger neutral 6th
helmed horror neutral 13th
gouger (beholderkin) neutral evil 14th
death kiss (beholder kin) neutral evil 16th
baneguard lawful evil 5th
banedead lawful evil 6th
hell hound lawful evil 6th
displacer beast lawful evil 7th
imp lawful evil 7th
banelar lawful evil 9th

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[post 10]
author : cheiromancer
date : 05-12-06 07:14 pm

for those who envision clerics as templars... what domains would you allow? i'm
thinking war and either law or good. not much customization, though.

what customization options would you give to a cleric templar?

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[post 11]
author : bront
date : 05-12-06 10:25 pm

i've renamed clerics to templars (ie knights of the temple) emphasising their
militant aspects. on the fluff side clerics are all low ranking members of
religious orders attached to temples and lead by paladins.

the religious aspects are attended to by the priest are homebrew class which bears
no resembalnce to the cleric

priests have the abilities to speak the words of the divine to effect people,
beasts, spirits and even objects
word of authority - the ability compel others, to inspire, to calm the masses, to
command, to rebuke (includes turn undead/spirits etc)
word of knowledge/wisdom - the ability to discerne and to understand with divine
insight, visions, knowledge of tongues and detection of the unseen
word of power the ability to speak blessings upon others, to sanctify and also to
curse, to heal or to wound, to give stength (buff) or to take it away
domain - the divine boon given to the priest to evoke and channel the power of
their god
this is interesting, and works well if you then change the cloistered cleric to
the normal cleric. though i've thought that the cloistered cleric was a little
weak and steped on the bard a bit.

in general, unless i'm playing a particular setting with gods, i'm always open to
allowing a player to create a god, as long as they create a unique and rpable
dogma and the deity is reasonable. (no lawful good god of travel and luck for
example).

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[post 12]
author : ciaran
date : 05-12-06 11:41 pm

i've gotten rid of clerics and divine magic entirely. spellcasting priests are
either wizards, or experts using ritual magic (incantations from unearthed
arcana).

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[post 13]
author : aus_snow
date : 05-13-06 02:14 am

for those who envision clerics as templars... what domains would you allow? i'm
thinking war and either law or good. not much customization, though.
to me, it's more a case of "what else would you call warrior-priests that go
trudging around in full plate?" yes ok, there are some other terms that might make
sense, 'cleric' most certainly not being one of them, but templar is immediately
recognisable and somewhat suitable. so anyway, all domains are still just as open
as they otherwise would've been.

what customization options would you give to a cleric templar?

and therefore, unsurprisingly, all the other options are also as open as when the
class was called 'cleric'.

but that's just for me, and my one (very nearly) actual d&d campaign. for others,
and certainly in other d20 campaigns of mine, answers would vary.

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[post 14]
author : risndevil
date : 05-13-06 09:11 am

all of my changes a fluff in nature (i guess there is slight crunch). to start

off with, it should be said that my gods are alignment free: they are truly
divine beings above such mortal "boundaries." as such, any god can have a cleric
of any alignment (this also expands out to any god can have paladins). divine
magic in my world is very pervasive, as such, clerics do not have to worship
anything to get 0th - 3rd level spells. 4th - 6th level spells are granted by
some form of a powerful outsider, who also is their guide to further "enlightment"
with the divine. the when they can cast 7th level spells, they "follow" a god who
then grants all their spells. (it is more like they follow a principle that is
lorded over by a god.)

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[post 15]
author : sir brennen
date : 05-15-06 04:10 pm

the clerics in my campaign just have a few changes to them.

first, they do not receive heavy armor proficiency.

the primary religion, consisting of nine deities, have the only clerics who
receive literacy as a class feature. bards and wizards also automatically receive
literacy, but not other classes.

the primary religion also has a little more flexibility in choosing domains: they
may select both domains from their own deity's list, or one from their god and
one from the sun god who established the religion.

lastly, i have pretty extensive house rules for turning undead

(http://home.comcast.net/~joemoon5/tian/index.html#turningundead), using a damage-
based system.

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[post 16]
author : ilium
date : 05-15-06 04:19 pm
my clerics are by-the-book, but fairly rare. most religious functionaries are
experts. empowered priests (as they are called) are recognized as having a
special status and respected as exemplars of their faiths (and yes they must
worship a deity). i also have a homebrew class called chosen, which i cooked up
before the favored soul came out, and is quite similar to that class. chosen are
so rare that even most clerics don't realize they exist.

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[post 17]
author : nyaricus
date : 05-15-06 10:15 pm

lastly, i have pretty extensive house rules for turning undead

(http://home.comcast.net/~joemoon5/tian/tianwiki.html#turningundead), using a
damage-based system.
dude, this is brilliant! i particularily like the burning light enhanced turning.

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[post 18]
author : rolzup
date : 05-16-06 11:05 am

clerics are gone...kinda.

i'm keeping the mechanics, but changing the flavor. clerics are now theurgists,
and they practice one of the few sorts of magic actually condemned by the church
(the others being warlockry, binding, and necromancy).

bascially, it works like this:

each cleric worships a "dead" god; a deity forgotten by the rest of the world.
they uncover these gods through research, by becoming an acolyte to an older
theurgist, or...other ways, which shall not be discussed.

but once they uncover the names of their chosen god, and make contact with him, a
symbiotic relationship is established. the theurgist worships the god,
strengthening him with the power of his faith...and the god, in turn, rewards that
faith with power in the form of spells.

the stronger the theurgist's faith, the stronger his god becomes, and the stronger
the theurgist's magic grows. it's a nice little cycle.

the church, on the other hand, cannot have theurgists. the sun god is the object
of worship from millions of individuals, and is immeasurably powerful as a
result...but with so many worshippers, he is unable to focus his attention on any
one of them. and how can he answer their prayers, when so many of them are
contradictory?

he can, and does, work big miracles when the occasion demands. earthquakes,
angelic visitations, and such. and he hand-picks champions to do his work in the
world, but trusts them to use their own judgement in the matter.

paladins, in other words.

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[post 19]
author : psion
date : 05-16-06 02:18 pm

i use priests (from aeg's good) and shamans (from shaman's handbook) to round out
my divine casters, as i feel clerics don't quite provide good enough coverage for
all possible faiths. i also provide homebrewed deities and bank heavily on
specialized domains.

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[post 20]
author : arkhandus
date : 05-16-06 06:19 pm

for one of my homebrews, i make a few tweaks to the cleric, making them a bit more
versatile while slightly toning down a few aspects (no automatic heavy armor
proficiency, 2-3 fewer spells per day of each spell level except orisons) to keep
them a little closer to arcane casters in raw power. aurelian clerics get a base
of 4 skill points per level, rather than 2, and get a few extra class skills:
knowledge (elemental lore) (int), knowledge (fey lore) (int), knowledge (outsider
lore) (int), knowledge (the planes) (int), knowledge (undead lore) (int), and
perform (cha). my aurelia homebrew also has 3 cleric variants, the friar
(skill/feat/healing/divination emphasis), the prelate (spell and energy channeling
emphasis), and the zealot (strength of arms emphasis).

also, however, i tweaked their turn/rebuke ability slightly in regards to what it

may affect. the wording's a bit clunky at first, but the latter half of the
paragraph is more clear. underlined the important parts for this post.

turn or rebuke the chosen: a good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good
deity) has the supernatural ability to turn either undead or evil outsiders,
forcing these chosen enemies to recoil from the channeled power of the god or
goddess whom the cleric worships, or they have the supernatural ability to rebuke
either elementals or fey, commanding these chosen allies through the channeled
power of the cleric's patron deity. evil clerics (and neutral clerics who worship
evil deities) instead rebuke either undead or evil outsiders, or instead turn
either elementals or fey. neutral clerics of neutral deities can do one or the
other (player�s choice), depending on whether the cleric is more proficient at
wielding positive or negative energy, based on their choice of converting prepared
spells to either cure or inflict spells. once the player makes this choice, it
cannot be reversed. this choice also determines whether the neutral cleric can
cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see above). the type of creature a
cleric turns or rebukes is based on their deity, as each deity has designated a
particular variety of creature to be enemies or servants to their clerics.
clerics who have no patron deity must choose a single one of the aforementioned
creature types, and either turns or rebukes them, based on their alignment and
their choice of positive or negative energy affinity. for purposes of turning and
rebuking, they treat all outsiders and fey as though they have turn resistance
equal to the outsider's or fey's charisma modifier, if positive. a cleric may
attempt to turn or rebuke chosen creatures a number of times per day equal to
three plus his or her charisma modifier.

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[post 21]
author : rhun
date : 05-18-06 10:20 am

to me, it's more a case of "what else would you call warrior-priests that go
trudging around in full plate?" yes ok, there are some other terms that might make
sense, 'cleric' most certainly not being one of them, but templar is immediately
recognisable and somewhat suitable.

what about "crusader."

crusader
a noun
1 crusader

a warrior who engages in a holy war;

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[post 22]
author : sir brennen
date : 05-18-06 10:41 am

dude, this is brilliant! i particularily like the burning light enhanced

turning.thanks. i'm still trying to decide if i want those enhanced turning
features to be separate feats, sort of like the feats that let rogues sacrifice x
number of sneak attack damage dice for some special effect.

speaking of feats, i wonder if anyone has ever thought about trying this variant
with clerics:

divine feats (complete warrior, complete divine, phb2) allow clerics (and
paladins) to use their turn undead attempts into other, useful abilities. to help
distinguish clerics of different deities, what about replacing turn undead with a
divine feat? the number of attempts per day remain the same, but they can only be
used to power the effect of the free divine feat.

edit: updated link in original post. please refer to that rather than the one in
nyaricus' quote.

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[post 23]
author : aus_snow
date : 05-18-06 11:36 am

what about "crusader."of course, no reason why not.

hence:
there are some other terms that might make sense:)

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[post 24]
author : tonguez
date : 05-18-06 01:58 pm
what about "crusader."

imo crusader has too much baggage and in fact implies a crusade
however imc templars might be members of crusading orders and thus known as
crusader

templar - knight of the temple is generic enough to cover many different types (as
determined by the temple)

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[post 25]
author : brother richard
date : 05-22-06 07:13 pm
title : interesting

i think the idea of worshipping dead gods is interesting. do you have any more
fluff on that as well as a few custom rules?

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[post 26]
author : brother richard
date : 05-22-06 07:28 pm
title : here is my extended version of the theurgist.

theurgist

adventuring: theurgists adventure to learn more of their found deity or to learn

the extent of their new powers. theurgists also adventure to become closer to
their god.
characteristics: theurgists are usually very intelligent and show disdain for
those who worship �new� deities.
alignment: any
religion: theurgists much worship or have faith in a dead god found by them. the
dead god gains powers because of the theurgist�s faith and grants the theurgist
divine might in return.
backround: theurgists are people who have discovered dead god�s and personally
worship one, gaining immense power while the dead god gains power as well.
role: theurgists are casters who help any party by being an arcane caster who is
versatile because of their selection of every rcane spell.
races: through all cultures, one may find a dead god. however people of studious
cultures are more likely to find a dead god because of the many resources of the
past to help them.
outlook: theurgists believe that the past is the secret to the future.
other classes: theurgists enjoy the company of all arcane casters and hate other
divine casters considering them traitors.

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[post 27]
author : brother richard
date : 05-22-06 07:29 pm
title : sorry

i forgot to say, i wanted the theurgist to be an arcane caster who cast like a
cleric. if you think, differently, please post. :)
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[post 28]
author : rolzup
date : 05-22-06 09:05 pm

i think the idea of worshipping dead gods is interesting. do you have any more
fluff on that as well as a few custom rules?

fluff is still being worked on -- i've got another two months before this campaign
begins, and i've got very little on paper thus far. that should change over the
next week or so.

mechanics, though...it's the 100% straight cleric, actually. i want the players
to be able to jump right in, using whatever god appeals to them. not that anyone
is likely to be playing a cleric, knowing these guys, but still....

why am i bothering, then? partially to keep things interesting to me, partially

to fly in the face of tradition -- divine casters are all heretics! -- and
partially to explain the lack of common healing. and hey, making raise dead into
a religious crime has all *kinds* of potential....

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[post 29]
author : sir brennen
date : 05-23-06 08:47 am
title : other rules

hmmm... forgot to mention a couple of my house rules, which, while not rules for
the cleric class specificially, do greatly affect them.

curses, disease and poison

curses, diseases and poisons can all be, in most cases, instantly removed through
a single casting of the proper spell. often in fantasy literature, however,
characters, sometimes entire families, are afflicted by a long-lasting curse or
disease. insidious poisons may linger in the body for years.

to better reflect this situation in the game, a degree of difficulty has been
introduced for spells such as remove curse, remove disease, neutralize poison,
break enchantment and heal.

to remove one of these afflictions, the spellcaster must make a level check (d20 +
caster level) against the dc indicated below. five or more ranks in an appropriate
skill will give a +2 synergy bonus to the roll.

for curses, and in some rare cases diseases and poisons, a character may not retry
a failed attempt until he advances a level in a class with access to an
appropriate spell, and is high enough level to cast it. characters with more than
one spellcasting class may still only make one attempt at each character level.

curses
dc: power of the original curse bestower (11 + caster level). for cursed magic
items, use a dc of 25.
synergy bonus: knowledge [arcana] or [religion], depending on the nature of the
curse. for curses cast by outsiders, knowledge [planes] may be substituted for
either of these two skills.
retry: only one attempt at each level.

disease
dc: saving throw dc of the disease. for lycanthropy, use the original dc of 15,
but follow all other rules as outlined in the monster manual.
synergy bonus: heal.
retry: normally, yes. the dm may rule for certain supernatural diseases that only
one attempt is allowed at each level.

poison
dc: saving throw dc of the poison. when using a spell against a poisoned object or
venomous creature, there is no caster level check, but the target makes a saving
throw as normal.
synergy bonus: craft[alchemy], heal or herbalism.
retry: normally, yes (if there's time.) the dm may rule that for certain
supernatural or magical poisons (such as those from the complete book of eldritch
might) only one attempt is allowed at each level.

learning new divine spells

to gain spells beyond those listed in the player's handbook, a divine spellcaster
may choose spells from any d20 source, subject to dm approval. however, the spell
must be conceptually related to their deity's areas of influence, or otherwise
appropriate to their class (such as combat-oriented spells for a paladin.)

to gain a new spell, a character must spend a day in prayer and meditation,
burning incense and other materials worth 100gp/spell level during the process. at
the end of the day, the character then makes a class level + wis modifier check
against a dc of 15 + spell level. a successful roll indicates the character has
been granted the spell by their deity and may add it to their spell list.
otherwise, the character has used up one half of the gp value of the materials and
can may try again later.

if a character performs the above check based on a spell they have found
transcribed on a scroll or similar object, they receive a +2 on the roll (provided
they are able to read the spell initially.) having the assistance of someone who
already knows the spell also gives a +2 bonus to the check.

estates
clerics may also chose to refine their domains a little further by selecting one
of the estates from the quintessential cleric, or by creating their own. not all
estates are appropriate for particular deities. consult with the dm first.

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[post 30]
author : herobizkit
date : 05-24-06 11:17 pm

imc, i've dropped clerics altogether. i use favored souls as the base class with
added access to knowlege(religion) on their skill lists.

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[post 31]
author : wmasters
date : 05-25-06 07:33 am
i've dropped clerics as well, they don't really fit into the setting i'm running
at the moment. i'm using druids and spirit shaman as divine casters.

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the messages has been download from en world - morrus' d&d / d20 news & reviews
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