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Forum Batheo Members Helping Members Defeating the Mutiny Outbreak / Troop Recoving Attack builds
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06-03-2011 12:54 AM

#1

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Defeating the Mutiny Outbreak / Troop Recoving Attack builds

OK, so I get this question a lot from mid-game players who start to see Dionysis and Thalia builds. Yes, they are over-built heros, espec ially Dionysis. Developers sc rewed the pooc h here. No hero should be able to nuke through heros/gear of the same level without problems, but Dionysis is way more potent than Thalia. Thalia's spirit stat is much lower. Its a noticable difference in PvP. The Mutiny Outbreak BM allows a hero to recover 100% of the damage they do to others on a BM hit. Troop Rec overing Attack BM allows a hero to recover 50% of the damage. Mutiny Outbreak BM users: 1) Thalia (Zues M26) 75/83/42, Flaming c alvary 2) Dionysis (Athena M25) 70/99/36, Treefolk 3) Antaeus (Jack & the Beanstock Merc) 43/67/33, Sea Giant Troop Recovering Attack BM users: 1) Rhea (Tartarus map Merc) 80/110/50 For those looking to get defeat these "c heater builds"... think Nocturnal Blitz and Moral Supression BMs, as well as elementalists. Mage hits do not give away free moral like valor hitters do, and these BM heros typically have poor elemental resistanc e. Mages of particular use here: Hephaestus (Poseidon M40) 110/83/113, Advanc ed Pyromancer - high spirit, strong elemental Asteria (Athena M40) 97/53/120, Thunderstorm Mage - Strongest mage attac k possible + stun Peneus (Poseidon M27) 74/28/97, Thunderstorm Mage - strongest attac k type + stun (which is VERY useful here) Akte (Athena M18) 63/41/83, Sunstorm Mage - if you're luc ky you c an get a stun Telchines (Poseiodon M24) 66/30/94, Sunstorm Mage - if you're lucky... you can get a free round. Helius (Zeus M30) 63/62/88, Sunstorm Mage - feeling lucky? A powerful tanking mage like Heph, or thunderstorm mages like Peneus and Asteria which can hit even harder and leave the target stunned are useful direc tly in front of your target. Sunstorm mages can be useful on the flanks as you may get a lucky stun or two to end the battle quicly. Sapping, zeroing, and supressing moral are all good techniques against these builds, and as disc ussedd above, a well placed stunn can result in the death of a Dionysis or Thalia build. BM Heros of use here: 1) Nocturnal Blitzkrieg - saps ALL moral, AND does SINGLE STACK damage to unit (even if moral=0). Glaucus (Poseidon M35) 79/102/77, Lightning Calvary - strong attack, and 0 moral. Target must be exposed. Medusa (Trial of Perseus Merc ) 64/90/84, Jormungand - solid spirit stat, beat Tantalos I guess Hestia (Athena M27) 79/79/50, Phantom Scythe Soldier - especially good against clavary like Thalia Argus Panoptes (Jack and the Beanstock Merc ) 31/[/color="darkorange"]79[/color]/30, Mammoth Rider Tantalos (Zues M13) 43/33/86, Soul Hunter 2) Moral Supression - saps some moral, but only on BM users with moral >1 Eurybia (Poseidon M36) 77/110/32, Soul Hunter (arc hers) - crits often Notus (Zues M35) 88/101/61, White Dragon Rider - high defense The Oneiroi (Athena M32) 73/97/68, Shadow Calvary - crits often Clotho (Athena M25) 74/85/42, Lightning Clavary -good dodge Hetaireiarches (Athena M10) 78/85/58, Golden Calvary -average dodge Apollo (Burning Sky Merc ) 87/77/37, Phoenix - dodges well 3) Moral Absorption - steals moral Ponos (Athena M33) 78/112/48, Griffin Rider Arce (Zues M16) 52/89/30, Lightning Calvary Prometheus (Heath Aflame Merc ) 72/88/43, Fire Sower - dodge and bloc k Calypso (Poseidon M22) 73/69/47, Phantom Phalynx - crits often. 4) Pandora's Curse - chance to put into chaos and get a free round. Feeling lucky? Daphne (Poseidon M25) 67/87/38, Flaming Calvary - highly mobile dodger, chance to stun. Pandora (Burning Sky merc ) 68/80/43, Dryad - mobile dodger/blocker. Electra (Zues M14) 57/78/41, Phantom Phalynx - crits often Obviously Pandora's Curse, and Moral Supression are nice since you can put them anywhere in your formation, they'll hit all BM users. Moral Absorption and Nocturnal Blitz need to be infront of your target to work since they are single stack attac kers. You should NOT put a mech unit like Thalamus in front of vampiric targets. They WILL c harge quickly and you'll never kill them off. They are designed to feed off mech units (or worse, a whole mech build). The only exc eptionm I know of are Burning Bulls. These spread-mech units attack everyone in formation, but only give the valor-hit moral boost the target enemy they hit. If your Mutiny Oubreak / Troop Recovering Attack target is the one taking the hit though, you're givin them moral boosts.

Last edited by SteveTheHammer; 06-03-2011 at 01:01 AM.

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06-03-2011 01:07 AM

#2

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Here's an example of a Dionysis killer build. http://b5.clapalong.c om/?fid=N201105106484951 a) Telchines tries to stun both Dionysis and any helper heros like buglars/dancers. b) Leuco is put in front to block/dodge the Dionysis hits/BM. c) Peneus is used to stun and kill Dionysis. The healer helps rec over troops for crippled heros that get hit by Dio... typically this is a bad idea against Dionysis units, but its almost a nessesity if you have a mage build. This one worked out alright, but it very c lose and needed Peneus to go on a roll with no help available.

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06-03-2011 01:14 AM

#3

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Here's an example of the Dio build nuking my mages. http://b5.clapalong.c om/?fid=N201106032898270 Notice how the healer is pretty much useless in this build. Without a stun to slow the onslaught, Dionysis pops his way though the mages. Quick fix? swap in Telchines for the healer, and swap in Heph for Charon (much stronger hitter and BM resistanc e). Best firing order would be: 1) Telchines (stuns), 2) Epimethius (sniper), ................................ 3) Heph (sniper tank) ..................................4) Peneus (stun sniper), 5) Psmathe (last c hance to hit Dionysis this round).

Last edited by SteveTheHammer; 06-03-2011 at 01:21 AM.

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06-03-2011 01:19 AM

#4

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Here's the saving grace for those looking to beat Dionysis builds... concentrate your fire. http://b5.clapalong.c om/?fid=N201106032287764 In this example you see how Dionysis is easily nuked when he's infront of 2 snipers. Being able to get in 3 sniper shots and a meterorite hit from afar before he fires off a BM makes him pulp quickly. When you KNOW your enemy has a Dio, Thalia, Rhea in formation GET TO HIM AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
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06-03-2011 03:35 AM

#5

Kyrtin
Junior Member

Nice guide! However, Noc turnal Blitzkrieg and Morale Absobtion BM aren't useful most of the time (Against NPC and other build), so it's not a good idea to train them. Morale suppression doesn't work well against players, it will not reduce morale by alot. Having at least 1 Bugler is very useful for reducing the morale, screw up the dancer or the 3 bugler build.

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Here's another stategy: Clear all other heroes with AOE, then have a sniper, mage at the bottom to kill the HP. http://b5.clapalong.c om/?fid=N201105256218728 Or you can have a huge BM sniper, like Triton, or Sac red Stardust heroes to 1-2 shot the recovering hero.

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06-03-2011 04:00 AM

#6

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Here's one that shows the advantage c haos can give. A Daphne bomber (Pandora's Curse) vs a Dionysis bomber: http://b5.c lapalong.com/?fid=N201106037260673 The Daphne Bomber is weak, his next Ren will be at lv88, he's only lv80 now... and the opponent is a purple archenemy on B5.
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06-03-2011 04:11 AM

#7

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

Originally Posted by Kyrtin

Nocturnal Blitzkrieg and Morale Absobtion BM aren't useful most of the time (Against NPC and other build), so it's not a good idea to train them. Morale suppression doesn't work well against players, it will not reduce morale by alot. Having at least 1 Bugler is very useful for reducing the morale, screw up the dancer or the 3 bugler build.
Yeah, Morale Supression is good for expedition maps (i.e. Titan Axes), but in PvP it's a pain only good for 25 moral hits... but the ability to do it from anywhere is nic e... not just from in front like Noc Blitz. A buglar or two is ok if you're already using more than 1 BM, but its a waste of a slot if you only have 1 BM user (i.e. the other 3 are mec hs, mages, or a healer)... and the benefit is limited... only makes the pop next round even more painful. If you have a healer in formation you really WANT BMs to fire 100 moral every round, instead of 200 every second round... the big hits make it harder to recover from (i.e. you may heal yourself from small hits, but get nuked from a larger one).

Clear all other heroes with AOE, then have a sniper, mage at the bottom to kill the HP. http://b5.clapalong.com/?fid=N201105256218728 Or you can have a huge BM sniper, like Triton, or Sacred Stardust heroes to 1-2 shot the recovering hero.
Yeah, the SS BM is tempermental though... you got to hope you get hit hard enough to take a chunk of troops, but not so hard you're dead. Its usually a 1 shot deal with SS heros. Put one in front and cross your fingers. If you're Poseidon like us, yeah, Triton looks like a monster. So does Poseidon. Defense is good... continous BMs are even better since you won't give away free moral boosts from your tank infront of Dio.
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06-04-2011 12:31 AM

#8

SteveTheHammer
Senior Member Join Date: Posts: Jan 2011 179

One last thing, Moral Supression does affect NPC's by percentage, and PvP by fixed amount. Moral Supression heros like Eurybia are very potent in clearing the map out, especially when Titan Axes (using the c ontinous-fire Troop Rec overing Attack) are frequently used, as is the case in Tartarus.
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06-05-2011 08:20 AM

#9

Wiseleo
Senior Member Join Date: Location: Posts: Feb 2011 HAVES-S8 // Serenity 100

Has anyone tested Rally against these attackers? Dio or Rhea hits Rallier and heals himself or herself for 1. Then something like Thalassa or whatever your choice of a sniper unit might be nukes him out of the sky.

Wiseleo, leader of Serenity on S8-HAVES. Send me a mail in-game if you think you qualify to join Serenity. The mighty Goddess Athena guides our actions. Featured battles: http://b8.clapalong.com/?fid=N201106204462423 - Alala - 39 levels difference http://b8.clapalong.com/?fid=N20110621708014 - Apollo - 40 levels difference
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06-05-2011 12:01 PM

#10

Trimgor
Senior Member

well, i have something to say. the effect that Morale Supression decrease enemy morela is from 20 to 60 there is the formula your Morale Suppression Hero's spirit attribute - enemy hero's spirit attribute

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Last edited by Trimgor; 06-05-2011 at 12:03 PM.

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