1he Houorable Gareth Lvaus

I.ccot:o Hass At.cc:t:cs.

Hal:o 'Ncc. Aa:o a kcal:t,
Dclivcrcd ou t|c 12t| o April, 2007 at t|c
JOANBKROCINSTITUTEFORPEACEJUSTICE
Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo
Sau Dicgo, Calioruia
1he Houorable Gareth Lvaus
I.ccot:o Hass At.cc:t:cs.
Hal:o 'Ncc. Aa:o a kcal:t,
Lditor - Lui|o ioua
irograu Onccr - Diaua iutlo
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CON1LN1S
oau . iroc Iustitutc or icacc c usticc 4
oau . iroc Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics 6
iograp|y o 1|c iouora|lc Garct| Lvaus 10
Iutcrvic aud Studcut Mcctiug it| 1|c iouora|lc Garct| Lvaus 14
Vclcouc |y Diaua iutlo 46
Iutroductiou |y ulic Sullivau 48
lccturc - I::.:.. M.ss J:...:.:s. M.|.. N:: J... . :.|.:, S1
ucstious aud Auscrs 70
lclatcd lcsourccs 84
A|out t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo 86
!
]OAN . KROC INS1I1U1L iOR iLACL s ]US1ICL
1|c uissiou o t|c oau . iroc
Iustitutc or icacc c usticc Ii)
is to ostcr pcacc, cultivatc justicc
aud crcatc a sacr orld. 1|roug|
cducatiou, rcscarc| aud pcaccua|iug
activitics, t|c Ii ocrs prograus
t|at advaucc sc|olars|ip aud
practicc iu coulict rcsolutiou aud
|uuau rig|ts. 1|c Iustitutc or
icacc c usticc, locatcd at t|c
Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo, dras
upou Cat|olic social tcac|iug t|at
sccs pcacc as iuscpara|lc rou
justicc aud acts to prcvcut aud
rcsolvc coulicts t|at t|rcatcu local,
uatioual aud iutcruatioual pcacc.
1|c Ii as csta|lis|cd iu 2000 t|roug| a gcucrous git rou t|c latc oau
. iroc to t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo to crcatc au iustitutc or t|c study
aud practicc o pcacc aud justicc. irograuuiug |cgau iu carly 2001 aud t|c
|uildiug as dcdicatcd iu Dcccu|cr 2001 it| a coucrcucc, icaccua|iug
it| usticc: iolicy or t|c 21st Ccutury."
1|c Iustitutc or icacc c usticc strivcs, iu oau . iroc's ords, to uot ouly
tal| a|out pcacc, |ut to ua|c pcacc." 1|c Ii ocrs its scrviccs to partics
iu coulict to providc ucdiatiou aud acilitatiou, asscssucuts, traiuiug aud
cousultatious. It advauccs pcacc it| justicc t|roug| or| it| ucu|crs o
civil socicty iu zoucs o coulict aud |as a ocus ou uaiustrcauiug oucu iu
pcacc proccsscs.
1|c Voucu icaccMa|crs irograu |riugs iuto rcsidcucc at t|c Ii oucu
|o |avc |ccu activcly cugagcd iu pcaccua|iug iu coulict arcas arouud t|c
orld to docuucut t|cir storics, s|arc cxpcricuccs it| ot|crs or|iug iu
pcaccua|iug aud allo tiuc or rclcctiou ou t|cir or|.
A uastcr's prograu iu icacc aud usticc Studics traius uturc lcadcrs iu t|c
icld aud ill |c cxpaudcd iuto t|c oau . iroc Sc|ool o icacc Studics,
supportcd |y a $S0 uilliou cudoucut rou t|c cstatc o Mrs. iroc.
Vorldliu|, a ycar-rouud cducatioual prograu or |ig| sc|ool studcuts rou
Sau Dicgo aud aja Calioruia couuccts yout| to glo|al aairs.
Couutry prograus, suc| as t|c icpal irojcct, ocr idc-raugiug coulict
asscssucuts, ucdiatiou aud coulict rcsolutiou traiuiug or|s|ops.
Couuuuity outrcac| iucludcs spca|crs, ilus, art aud opportuuitics or
discussiou |ctccu couuuuity ucu|crs, acadcuics aud practitioucrs ou issucs
o pcacc aud social justicc, as cll as dialoguc it| uatioual aud iutcruatioual
lcadcrs iu govcruucut, uou govcruucutal orgauizatious aud t|c uilitary.

]OAN . KROC DIS1INGUISHLD LLC1URL SLRILS
Ludocd iu 2003 |y a gcucrous git to t|c oau . iroc Iustitutc or icacc
c usticc rou t|c latc oau iroc, p|ilaut|ropist aud iutcruatioual pcacc
propoucut, t|c oau . iroc Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics is a oruu or
|ig|-lcvcl uatioual aud iutcruatioual lcadcrs aud policyua|crs to s|arc t|cir
|uolcdgc aud pcrspcctivcs ou issucs rclatcd to pcacc aud justicc. 1|c goal o
t|c scrics is to dccpcu uudcrstaudiug o |o to prcvcut aud rcsolvc coulict
aud prouotc pcacc it| justicc.
1|c Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics ocrs t|c couuuuity at largc au opportuuity
to cugagc it| lcadcrs |o arc or|iug to orgc uc dialogucs it| partics
iu coulict aud |o scc| to auscr t|c qucstiou o |o to crcatc au cuduriug
pcacc or touorro. 1|c scrics, |ic| is |cld at t|c oau . iroc Iustitutc or
icacc c usticc at t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo, cxauiucs uc dcvclopucuts iu
t|c scarc| or ccctivc tools to prcvcut aud rcsolvc coulict |ilc protcctiug
|uuau rig|ts aud cusuriug social justicc.
~
lc|ruary 10, 200S 1|c iouora|lc lloyd Axort|y, i|.D.
ircsidcut, Luivcrsity o Viuuipcg
1|: :s..s.|.|.:, :. I.::.:. I:s..:... ;. . c|.|.| I||.. L.o...
Marc| 31, 200S Mary lo|iusou
lorucr ircsidcut o Irclaud aud Luitcd iatious
iig| Couuissioucr or iuuau lig|ts
Ho.. .|:s .. L:|...| c|.|.|...:...
Octo|cr 27, 200S iis Lxccllcucy ictuuilc Masirc
lorucr ircsidcut o t|c lcpu|lic o otsaua
I:s:.:.:s ..:. :|: C..;|..: .. :|: L:o...:.. :||.. .; :|: C...
.. C..::o.., I:..:|.|.. L;;.:s
auuary 27, 2006 Au|assador C|ristop|cr l. iill
L.S. Dcpartucut o Statc
U.`. I.|.., .. L.s: Js.. .. :|: I...;..
Marc| 9, 2006 Villiau l. Sc|ulz
Lxccutivc Dircctor - Auucsty Iutcruatioual LSA
1...:: L:..,. /11 .. :|: .. .; Ho.. .|:s
Scptcu|cr 7, 2006 S|iriu L|adi
2003 io|cl icacc laurcatc
I.. J.|:.... Ho.. .|:s, h.o:. .. Is|.o
Octo|cr 18, 2006 Miria Matcu|c, Alua \iviaua icrcz, Ircuc Sautiago
h.o:., h. .. I:..:. 1|: I.|.:..s .; I:..:|.|..
April 12, 2007 1|c iouora|lc Garct| Lvaus
ircsidcut - Iutcruatioual Crisis Group
I::.:.. M.ss J:...:.:s. M.|.. N:: J... . :.|.:,
DIS1INGUISHLD LLC1URL SLRILS SiLAKLRS
April 1S, 2003 lo|crt Ldgar, i|.D.
Gcucral Sccrctary, iatioual Couucil o C|urc|cs
1|: .|: .; :|: C|.| .. U.`. I.:.. I.|..,
May 8, 2003 iclcu Caldicott, M.D.
ircsidcut, iuclcar iolicy lcscarc| Iustitutc
1|: N: N.|:. L..:
Octo|cr 1S, 2003 lic|ard . Goldstouc
usticc o t|c Coustitutioual Court o Sout| Arica
1|: .|: .; I.::..:....| L. .. I::.:.. L:.|, C..;|..:
auuary 14, 2004 Au|assador Douald i. Stciu|crg
L.S. Dcpartucut o Statc
C..;|..:, c:.: .. Ho.. .|:s. L:ss..s L:..: ;.o :|: I.:|
April 14, 2004 Gcucral Aut|ouy C. Ziuui
Luitcd Statcs Mariuc Corps rctircd)
I.o :|: 3.::|:;.:| :. :|: N:.:..:.. 1.||:.
I::.:.. L:.|, C..;|..:
iovcu|cr 4, 2004 iauau As|rai, i|.D.
Sccrctary Gcucral - ialcstiuiau Iuitiativc or t|c
irouotiou o Glo|al Dialoguc aud Dcuocracy
C...::, C..::.: .. I..:ss .. I:..:o.|...
1|: I.|:s:.....~Is.:|. L.:.:..:
iovcu|cr 17, 2004 ioclccu icyzcr, i|.D.
Lxccutivc Dircctor - Luitcd iatious Dcvclopucut
luud or Voucu
h.o:., h. .. I:..:. M.|.|.... ;. `:..:,
.. js:..: .. :|: 21s: C:.:,
10 11
IOGRAiHY Oi 1HL HONORALL
GARL1H LVANS
Garct| Lvaus |as |ccu siucc auuary 2000 prcsidcut aud c|ic cxccutivc o t|c
russcls-|ascd Iutcruatioual Crisis Group Crisis Group), t|c iudcpcudcut,
glo|al, uougovcruucutal orgauizatiou it| souc 130 sta ucu|crs ou ivc
coutiucuts |ic| or|s, t|roug| icld-|ascd aualysis aud |ig|-lcvcl policy
advocacy, to prcvcut aud rcsolvc dcadly coulict.
oru iu 1944, |c cut to Mcl|ouruc iig| Sc|ool, aud |olds irst class |ouors
dcgrccs iu la rou Mcl|ouruc Luivcrsity .A., ll..) aud iu politics,
p|ilosop|y aud ccououics rou Oxord Luivcrsity M.A.). corc cutcriug
t|c Australiau iarliaucut iu 1978, |c as au acadcuic laycr spccializiug iu
coustitutioual aud civil li|crtics la aud a |arristcr spccializiug iu iudustrial
la. ic |ccauc a uccus Couuscl iu 1983.
A ucu|cr o t|c Australiau iarliaucut or 21 ycars, |c as scuator or
\ictoria rou 1978 to 1996, scrviug as dcputy lcadcr 1987-1993) aud
t|cu lcadcr 1993-1996) o t|c govcruucut, aud as a ucu|cr o t|c
iousc o lcprcscutativcs rou 1996 uutil Scptcu|cr 1999, scrviug as
dcputy lcadcr o t|c oppositiou 1996-1998). ic as a Ca|iuct uiuistcr
iu t|c ia|c aud icatiug la|or govcruucuts or 13 ycars, iu t|c posts o
attorucy gcucral 1983-84), uiuistcr or rcsourccs aud cucrgy 1984-87),
uiuistcr or trausport aud couuuuicatious 1987-88) aud orcigu uiuistcr
1988-1996).
Lvaus as ouc o Australia's lougcst scrviug orcigu uiuistcrs, |cst |uou
iutcruatioually or |is rolcs iu dcvclopiug t|c L.i. pcacc plau or Cau|odia,
|riugiug to a couclusiou t|c iutcruatioual C|cuical Vcapous Couvcutiou,
ouudiug t|c Asia iaciic Lcououic Coopcratiou oruu aud ASLAi
lcgioual loruu, aud iuitiatiug t|c Cau|crra Couuissiou ou t|c Lliuiuatiou
o iuclcar Vcapous.
c.::| L..s s:.|.. .: :|: j... 3. I.. I.s:.::: ;. I:..: c js:..:.
12 1`
ic as Australiau iuuauist o t|c Ycar iu 1990, ou t|c AiZAC icacc
irizc iu 1994 or |is or| ou Cau|odia, as uadc au Oiccr o t|c
Ordcr o Australia iu 2001, aud as aardcd |ouorary Doctoratcs o la
|y Mcl|ouruc Luivcrsity iu 2002 aud Carlctou Luivcrsity iu 200S. Iu t|c
Luitcd Statcs |c rcccivcd iu 199S t|c $1S0,000 Gracucycr irizc or Idcas
Iuproviug Vorld Ordcr or |is lorcigu iolicy articlc Coopcrativc Sccurity
aud Iutrastatc Coulict," aud as aardcd |y 1uts Luivcrsity iu 2003 t|c
Dr. cau Maycr Glo|al Citizcus|ip Aard. iis ot|cr iutcruatioual aards
iucludc t|c C|ilcau Ordcr o Mcrit Graud Cross), givcu iu 1999 priuarily
or |is or| iu iuitiatiug AiLC.
Lvaus |as rittcu or cditcd cig|t |oo|s, iucludiug C..:.:.. ;. I:..:. 1|:
c|.|.| J:.. ;. :|: 10s 1993) aud Js:.|..`s I.:.. :|.:...s 1991), aud
|as pu|lis|cd ovcr 90 c|aptcrs iu |oo|s aud jourual articlcs aud uauy uorc
ucspapcr aud uagaziuc articlcs) ou orcigu rclatious, politics, |uuau rig|ts
aud lcgal rcoru.

Iu 2000-2001 |c as co-c|air, it| Mo|aucd Sa|uouu, o t|c Iutcruatioual
Couuissiou ou Iutcrvcutiou aud Statc Sovcrciguty, appoiutcd |y t|c
govcruucut o Cauada, |ic| pu|lis|cd its rcport, 1|c lcspousi|ility
to irotcct," iu Dcccu|cr 2001. ic as a ucu|cr o t|c L.i. Sccrctary
Gcucral's iig|-lcvcl iaucl ou 1|rcats, C|allcugcs aud C|augc, |osc
rcport, A Morc Sccurc Vorld: Our S|arcd lcspousi|ility," as pu|lis|cd
iu Dcccu|cr 2004; t|c Couuissiou ou Vcapous o Mass Dcstructiou
spousorcd |y Scdcu aud c|aircd |y iaus lix, |ic| rcportcd iu uuc
2006; aud t|c Iutcruatioual 1as| lorcc ou Glo|al iu|lic Goods, spousorcd
|y Scdcu aud lraucc aud c|aircd |y Lrucsto Zcdillo, |ic| rcportcd iu
Scptcu|cr 2006.
ic prcviously scrvcd as a ucu|cr o t|c Carucgic Couuissiou ou ircvcutiug
Dcadly Coulict, co-c|aircd |y Cyrus \aucc aud David iau|urg 1994-
97), aud is currcutly a ucu|cr o t|c L.i. Sccrctary-Gcucral's Advisory
Couuittcc ou Gcuocidc.
Lvaus |as uaiutaiucd stroug acadcuic aud sc|olarly couucctious t|roug|out
|is carccr, lccturiug at uauy uuivcrsitics arouud t|c orld. Iu May 2004 |c
as clcctcd as au |ouorary cllo o Magdalcu Collcgc, Oxord, aud is a
ucu|cr o t|c Iutcruatioual Advisory oard o L.i. Studics at Yalc, t|c
Advisory Couucil o t|c Iustitutc or Iutcruatioual Studics at Stauord, aud
t|c Lditorial Advisory oard o t|c Cau|ridgc lcvic o Iutcruatioual Aairs.
Auoug ot|cr currcut positious, Garct| Lvaus is a cllo o t|c
lorcigu iolicy Associatiou aud a ucu|cr o t|c Iutcruatioual Couucil
o t|c Asia Socicty, t|c Iutcruatioual Advisory oard o t|c ic
Glo|al Attitudcs Survcy aud t|c Iutcruatioual Advisory oard o t|c
Asia-iaciic Collcgc o Diplouacy, Australiau iatioual Luivcrsity.
ic is uarricd to irocssor Mcrrau Lvaus, au ccououctriciau |o is pro vicc
c|auccllor plauuiug) at Mouas| Luivcrsity, Australia. 1|cy |avc to adult
c|ildrcu, Caitliu aud Lauou. iis lcisurc iutcrcsts arc rcadiug aud ritiug,
travcl, arc|itccturc, opcra, gol aud Australiau lulcs oot|all.
1! 1
a|out $2 uilliou, rcally or|iug ouly iu Luropc aud a littlc |it iu Arica, it|
a |cadquartcrs iu russcls aud a suall oicc iu Vas|iugtou - t|at as a|out
it. Vc arc uo 130 pcoplc, it| a ull-tiuc |udgct o ucarly $1S uilliou; c'rc
ou t|c grouud iu a|out 60 dicrcut placcs o coulict or potcutial coulict
arouud t|c orld; aud c |avc uajor advocacy oiccs uot ouly iu russcls aud
Vas|iugtou, |ut also iu ic Yor|, it| suallcr liaisou oiccs iu loudou aud
Mosco, aud arc |opcully a|out to |c iu cijiug, |crc I as just a c days
ago ucgotiatiug a prcscucc t|crc.
V|at c |avc |ccu a|lc to do it| t|osc rcsourccs is rcally a|out our t|iugs.
lirst is to providc a rcally uscul carly aruiug systcu or glo|al policyua|crs
iu t|c Luitcd iatious aud uatioual govcruucuts aud clsc|crc. Vc producc a
uout|ly C.s.sh.:.| |ullctiu, |riugiug all t|is iuoruatiou togct|cr I t|iu| uorc
cousistcutly, aud |opcully co|crcutly, t|au auyouc clsc.
Sccoudly, c gct iuvolvcd iu pcacc ucgotiatious t|at arc ta|iug placc, alt|oug|
uot as t|c |iud o c|aractcrs you scc ou t|c V|itc iousc lau |oldiug |auds
L..s .:| IIj `.. 200 ..::.s .. U`L s::.:s |~, L...:|. L.., N..| L..o.., :|:... L::o.. .. c.|.:||. `:o;
IN1LRVILV AND S1UDLN1 MLL1ING VI1H
GARL1H LVANS
1|c olloiug is au cditcd coupilatiou o au iutcrvic it| 1|c iouora|lc
Garct| Lvaus couductcd |y Diaua iutlo, prograu oiccr at t|c oau . iroc
Iustitutc or icacc c usticc Ii), aud a privatc ucctiug |cld it| graduatc
studcuts rou t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo LSD) aud t|c grcatcr Sau Dicgo
rcgiou. ot| t|c iutcrvic aud ucctiug crc |cld ou April 12, 2007.
Q: Questiou frou iutervieer or stuJeut
GL: Auscr |y Garct| Lvaus
GL: lct uc just say a c ords a|out t|c Iutcruatioual Crisis Group. It startcd
iu t|c uid-1990s, as a rcspousc to t|c |orrors o Src|rcuica aud lauda iu
particular, it| a ccliug t|at t|crc |ad to |c souc |iud o uc orgauizatiou
crcatcd t|at ould |c ccctivc iu gcttiug govcruucuts to t|iu| a|out t|iugs
t|cy didu't aut to t|iu| a|out aud to do t|iugs t|cy didu't aut to do. It |cgau
vcry suall: just a to-pcrsou oicc iu loudou. ut it |ad vcry |ig| aspiratious,
dcsigucd to |c a coulict prcvcutiou aud rcsolutiou orgauizatiou it| a particular
ocus ou issucs o uass atrocity, |ut rcally |roadcr t|au t|at. Its uct|odology
as a t|rcc-lcggcd stool - icld-|ascd rcscarc|; policy prcscriptious loiug
rou t|at rcscarc| |ic| ould |opcully |c rcal orld aud uot out to spacc;
aud advocacy |ic| ouldu't |c so uuc| uass caupaiguiug aud druu |catiug,
|ut |ig|-lcvcl, usiug |at crc iutcudcd to |c airly |ig|-lcvcl rcsourccs. 1|c
|iud o pcoplc |o crc associatcd it| t|c orgauizatiou rou t|c |cgiuuiug
crc orucr prcsidcuts, priuc uiuistcrs aud orcigu uiuistcrs aud t|c li|c, aud
t|cir idca as to put togct|cr a group |ic| ould rcally |c a|lc to uo|ilizc
rcspouscs at a |ig| lcvcl.
Crisis Group |cgau iu t|c al|aus iu t|c latc '90s, |crc c |ad t|is succcssiou
o cvcr-uuoldiug criscs, aud it dippcd au carly toc or to iu t|c atcr iu
parts o Arica. ut |cu I cauc a|oard iu carly 2000, atcr a loug carccr iu
Australiau politics, it as rcally still vcry suall: 20 pcoplc, a ull-tiuc |udgct o
1 1
alot at t|c cud o a succcssul ucgotiatiou: c dou't do t|c orual couciliatiou
or ucdiatiou, li|c 1|c Cartcr Ccutcr or Saut'Lgidio or ot|crs o t|at |iud.
V|at c rcally do is or| |c|iud t|c sccucs, |ct|cr it's iu Acc| or icpal or
Sudau, iu uruudi or Cougo or |crcvcr - or|iug it| t|c ucdiators, it|
t|c partics, idcutiyiug proccss stratcgics, idcutiyiug su|stautivc solutious aud
puttiug prcssurc t|roug| pu|lic discoursc ou t|c various playcrs.
1|c t|ird t|iug c do is couc up it| a lot o graud dcsigu stu ou t|c |ig
issucs, |ct|cr it's Isracl aud ialcstiuc aud au cudgauc approac| to political
scttlcucut t|crc, or stratcgics or dcaliug it| Iraq, Irau, iort| iorcau uu|cs
aud issucs o t|at |iud. It's uot so casy to scc t|c iuucdiatc rcturu rou t|at,
|ut |opcully c arc siguiicaut iu iulucuciug t|c policy dc|atc t|at gocs ou.
Aud t|c ourt| t|iug c do is dcvclop stratcgics at all stagcs o t|c coulict cyclc.
Vc try to auticipatc t|iugs t|at |avcu't |appcucd yct aud uay uot or souc tiuc,
|ut surc as |cll arc li|cly to |ccausc o t|c iutcrual dyuauics o t|c couutry or
rcgiou iu qucstiou, or cxauplc iu Ccutral Asia. 1|cu, as situatious gct closcr to
actual coulict, c dcvclop stratcgics or avoidiug t|c out|rca|. 1|cu, t|crc arc
stratcgics or coutaiuiug aud rcsolviug coulict - pcacc ucgotiatious, pcrsuasiou
aud cocrciou, aud pcr|aps stratcgics or uilitary cugagcucut i at t|c cud o
t|c day t|at's t|c ouly solutiou; t|cu, as you couc out o t|c coulict cyclc,
stratcgics or post-coulict pcacc|uildiug, to cusurc t|at violcucc ou't rccur.
Vc producc lots aud lots o rcports |ic| go to govcruucuts aud uauy ot|crs
a|out |at to do at cac| stagc o t|csc cyclcs iu various parts o t|c orld:
all iu all, c producc a|out 90 to 100 rcports aud |riciug papcrs a ycar. Iu
additiou, c pu|lis| a|out 120 to 140 op-cds iu all t|c uajor papcrs o t|c
orld cac| ycar. Aud c |ad iu t|c ucs pagcs a|out 18,000 ucdia ucutious
last ycar, cvcu t|oug| c dou't rcally go c|asiug ucdia or t|c sa|c o it. Our
stylc aud stratcgy is uorc couplcx solutious or couplcx pro|lcus," rat|cr
t|au scvcu-sccoud souud-|itcs - |ut c do a |it o t|at uouct|clcss. Vc do
|avc pcoplc li|c o|u ircudcrgast, |ou you uay |avc uct ou t|is caupus,
1

|o is Mr. Grassroots Caupaigu, |ut t|at's a |it uuusual or t|c gcucral stylc
o t|c orgauizatiou. Vc |avc to |avc t|is capacity to uo|ilizc rcspouscs ou
particular urgcut aud iuportaut issucs |ic| arc |ciug iguorcd, |ut uost o
t|c rcst o t|c tiuc c'rc doiug our caupaiguiug iu a slig|tly dicrcut, uorc
uutcd ay.
Vc |avc a Vc| sitc |ic| |as |ccouc quitc a uajor rcsourcc aud uuc| utilizcd
|y studcuts all arouud t|c glo|c, as cll as |y, |opcully, policyua|crs, it|
a|out S uilliou visits to t|at sitc last ycar aud - or t|osc o you |o |uo
t|c dicrcucc - a|out 120 uilliou |its, |ut t|at docsu't couut: it's a|out visits,
pcoplc actually opcuiug t|c sitc aud loo|iug at it. iagc vics also couut, aud I
t|iu| c |ad a|out 2S uilliou o t|cu, it| cac| visitor iu ccct opcuiug ivc
pagcs ou t|c sitc.
As au orgauizatiou c |avc a|out 90 to 100 iutcrus a ycar couiug iu aud
or|iug iu russcls aud Vas|iugtou aud ic Yor| aud iu various ot|cr placcs
arouud t|c orld, or t|rcc uout|s or six uout|s or |atcvcr tiuc t|at pcoplc
cau givc. 1|cy arc au a|solutcly autastic rcsourcc, uo to ays a|out it, aud
c gct a |ugc auouut o iutcrcst rou graduatcs iu iutcruatioual rclatious
prograus, pcacc aud justicc prograus aud so ou, all arouud t|c plauct. Iu act,
c |ad ovcr 4,000 applicatious last ycar or t|osc 100 or so positious, so it's
uot casy to gct iu, |ut it's au iudicatiou o t|c |iud o stu c'rc doiug aud
|y pcoplc aut to gct iuvolvcd.
Q: Let ue start ith the criteria for ickiug the areas that Crisis Grou
focuses ou. Vhat kiuJs of criteria Jo you use auJ ho ofteu Jo you revie
those criteria: 1here are uauy areas of the orlJ that uust be clauoriug
for your atteutiou.
GL: Vcll, irst a|ovc all, c loo| to situatious |ic| arc cryiug out or
iutcruatioual attcutiou iu tcrus o cit|cr prcvcutiug a coulict or rcsolviug it,
|riugiug it to a satisactory, sustaiua|ly pcaccul solutiou. Sccoudly, c loo|
to |ct|cr c as au orgauizatiou cau add rcal valuc iu t|at cutcrprisc. 1|irdly,
c loo| at |ct|cr c |avc t|c rcsourccs, or cau raisc t|c rcsourccs, to put

1 ]ohu ireuJergast, seuior aJvisor at the Iuteruatioual Crisis Grou, soke at the iustitute ou ]auuary 22, 2007.
1~ 1
pcoplc ou t|c grouud to or| ou t|c issuc, |ccausc our |olc uct|odology
is |ascd ou a icld prcscucc, rat|cr t|au ly iu, ly out, or |ciug stuc| |c|iud
couputcr scrccus iu t|c |cltay. Aud ourt|ly, c loo| at ovcrall uauagcrial
tiuc couuitucut aud |ct|cr t|c rcsourccs arc t|crc to ollo t|roug| t|c
projcct it| ccctivc advocacy aud ccctivc dclivcry. I you sprcad yourscl
too t|iuly, it's uot possi|lc to producc cit|cr a irst-class rittcu product or
irst-class ollo-t|roug| product.
I t|iu| ouc o t|c sccrcts o suc| succcsscs Crisis Group |as |ad is t|at cvcry
rcport c producc is uot just a uattcr o t|roiug a covcr arouud souct|iug
t|at's produccd rou t|c icld. It's a vcry protractcd, ougoiug, itcrativc proccss
o iuputs rou Vas|iugtou aud ic Yor| aud rou our uost scuior |oard
ucu|crs as to |o t|c issuc s|ould |c loo|cd at aud rcsolvcd, aud a lot o
iutcrual discussious, particularly ou t|c policy rccouucudatious, iuvolviug
uauy dicrcut pcoplc it|iu t|c orgauizatiou. So, it's a gcuuiucly corporatc
product, aud as suc| t|crc arc liuitatious ou t|c uuu|cr o t|iugs c cau do
cll at auy givcu poiut o tiuc.
Vc do rcvic cvcry ycar |at c'rc doiug aud t|c rclativc prioritizatiou o
rcsourccs, aud luc|ily a vcry largc proportiou o our uudiug is corc uudiug
- t|c ratio is closc to 70 pcrccut corc to 30 pcrccut spcciic purposc, |ic|
ucaus c |avc a lot o lcxi|ility or potcutial lcxi|ility iu t|c ay iu |ic|
c cau uovc rcsourccs arouud to uirror issucs o rcal currcut uccd, rat|cr t|au
just |ciug stuc| it| doiug t|iugs t|at pcoplc |avc paid or us to do |ic| arc
rcally uot auy lougcr all t|at rclcvaut.
Q: 1he uext questiou that follos ou that is the questiou of lougevity iu
soue of these crises: You're talkiug about 20-year crises, oues that uay take
1 years to actually flare u, but hich you cau see haeuiug auJ builJiug
sloly. Ho Jo you fiuJ the iustitutioual resources, the focus, or ho Jo you
avoiJ hat e call crisis fatigue, both ithiu your ou orgauizatiou auJ
ith the eole you are tryiug to Jo aJvocacy ith:
GL: Vcll, c |uo t|at c'rc iu or t|c loug |aul it| a grcat uauy o t|csc
situatious, aud iu souc ays, gcttiug iu cll iu advaucc o a situatiou t|at |as
yct to rcac| au cxplosivc |cad is t|c |cst possi|lc positiou to |c, cvcu t|oug|
t|c tiuc rauc aud t|c couuitucut rcquircd is t|at uuc| uorc diicult to
sustaiu. ut advisiug govcruucuts a|out t|c dcvclopucut assistaucc stratcgy
- govcruaucc capacity |uildiug, gricvaucc rcucdyiug aud so ou - |ic| arc
|cst dcsigucd to avcrt a coulict, cau |c souc o t|c uost uscul or| t|at
c do. O coursc, as it| all prcvcutiou iu auy coutcxt |atsocvcr, |cu you
succccd at prcvcutiou uot|iug |appcus, t|crcorc uo|ody uoticcs, so t|is |iud
o activity is uot dcsigucd to iu you uauy plaudits or |ig uudiug iu t|c idcr
orld, |ut uouct|clcss, it's auoug t|c uost iuportaut t|iugs c do.
1|c uost |arroiug situatious arc t|osc |ot coulicts |ic| go ou aud ou, it|
uauy, uauy pcoplc sucriug aud dyiug, liviug iu couditious o uiscry, or at
t|c vcry |cst it| uassivcly astcd lic opportuuitics, |ut iu t|csc cascs t|crc's
a|solutcly uo c|oicc |ut to or| at it aud or| at it aud or| at it, aud try to
uauagc aud uiuiuizc t|c coulict as |cst you cau uutil suc| tiuc as you cau
iually crcatc cuoug| lcvcragc to cxtcrually or iutcrually positiou t|c playcrs to
rcac| souc political scttlcucut.
ut cvcu t|cu, o coursc, t|c tas| is uot couplctc |ccausc c'vc discovcrcd, i
uot|iug clsc, t|at t|c |cst siuglc iudicator o uturc coulict is past coulict, aud
t|at ouc o t|c ovcr|cluiug rcasous |y so uauy coulicts |avc rc-cruptcd
iu rcccut tiucs to dcvastatiug ccct - or cxauplc iu Augola aud lauda to
ta|c just to - is |ccausc iusuicicut attcutiou as paid |y t|c iutcruatioual
couuuuity to t|c ollo-t|roug| stagc. It as as i it| t|c siguiug o t|c
pcacc agrccucut aud uay|c t|c positiouiug o a c dcsultory pcacc|ccpiug
rcsourccs to uouitor a ccascirc, t|c jo| as douc. ut, o coursc, t|c jo|
isu't douc uutil you |avc dcalt it| t|c uudcrlyiug causcs t|at gcucratcd t|c
irst coulict aud arc quitc li|cly to lcad to t|c |olc ugly |usiucss |rca|iug
out agaiu i you dou't gct out o t|at cyclc. Aud t|at cau iuvolvc rcally uajor
dcvclopucut stratcgics; it cau iuvolvc t|c rcs|apiug o t|c coustitutiou o
t|c couutry iu tcrus o govcruaucc, autououy arraugcucuts, |uuau rig|ts
protcctious, aud t|cu cusuriug t|at t|c uac|iucry actually or|s.
20 21
1|c orst possi|lc t|iug is to |clicvc t|at you'vc accouplis|cd souct|iug |y
|aviug au clcctiou aud |aviug souc uotioually dcuocratically rcprcscutativc
lcadcrs|ip iu placc. lar too otcu iu t|c past t|at's |ccu t|c occasiou or closiug
t|c door aud sayiug c'rc o " as au iutcruatioual couuuuity, |crcas all too
otcu, uulcss you |ad a c|aucc to rc|uild civil socicty, you'rc siuply cudorsiug
prc-cxistiug pocr structurcs it| all t|c tcusious aud coutradictious t|at
gcucratcd t|c irst rouud o t|c coulict.
Vc'rc lcaruiug to do t|is stu a lot |cttcr. Vc'rc |uildiug, c'rc crcatiug
iustitutious li|c t|c icacc|uildiug Couuissiou uo iu ic Yor| t|at ill
|opcully uitigatc t|csc pro|lcus iu t|c uturc. ut agaiu, t|is is stu |ic|
rcquircs a loug |aul couuitucut, aud c, oursclvcs, iu iaiti aud clsc|crc,
|avc |ad t|is iutcrual dc|atc: Cau c al| aay |cu c'rc ritiug rcports
sayiug iu vcry loud ords o ouc sylla|lc to t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity, You
s|ould uot al| aay". 1|crc's a rcal casc or stic|iug arouud aud uouitoriug
aud scrutiuiziug t|csc post-coulict dcvclopucuts, aud to cusurc t|at t|c |olc
cyclc, as I said, docsu't start agaiu.
Q: You ueutioueJ Haiti, auJ it seeus to be that that's oue of the fe areas
iu South Auerica here Crisis Grou is orkiug ublicly, that there's beeu
a lot of focus ou. Are you Joiug uore ork iu South Auerica thau that:
GL: Vcll, c |avc to projccts iu latiu Aucrica aud t|c Cari||cau. Ouc is
iaiti aud t|c ot|cr is iu Colou|ia, |crc c'vc douc rcally quitc a lot o or|
uo, ovcr t|c last ivc ycars or so, iu dcaliug csscutially it| t|c civil situatiou
t|crc aud t|c ougoiug coulict it| t|c lAlC lcvolutiouary Arucd lorccs
o Colou|ia aud t|c Lli iatioual li|cratiou Aruy aud t|c parauilitarics,
aud, o coursc, t|c drug issuc |ic| ccds iuto t|at aud |ic| |as |ccu so
uuc| o a coulict rciuorccr or so loug. Vc'vc also douc souc or| iu olivia
aud Lcuador, aud uorc rcccutly iu \cuczucla, aud so c |avc au oicc iu
ogota, |ic| is trac|iug t|at part at lcast o t|c coutiucut. It's au arca |ic|
pro|a|ly dcscrvcs uorc attcutiou t|au c'vc givcu it, aud uorc rcsourccs. Vc'vc
dc|atcd t|is iutcrually quitc otcu, |ut or t|c uoucut, |cariug iu uiud t|osc
critcria I ucutioucd carlicr ou, t|at's t|c lcvcl at |ic| c'vc |ccu a|lc to ua|c
a couuitucut so ar aud uo uorc t|au t|at.
Q: Last year iu our couflict resolutiou class, e stuJieJ, auoug other
couflicts, the Neal couflict, auJ e reaJ the reort frou the Crisis Grou.
I'J like to hear your oiuiou of the eace agreeueut that they sigueJ. Vhat
Jo you thiuk the situatiou iu Neal is right uo:
GL: Vcll, c'rc rcasoua|ly optiuistic. It |ccps |ciug su|jcctcd to sidc iuds
o ouc |iud or auot|cr, iucludiug currcutly t|c squa||lc t|at's goiug ou dou
iu t|c sout|cru plaius part o t|c couutry. ut c, rat|cr uuas|ioua|ly, too|
t|c vic rou t|c |cgiuuiug t|at t|c Maoists crc rcally Maoists iu uauc
ouly - uot t|at t|cy crc cuddly social dcuocrats, |ut t|cy crc capa|lc o
|ciug |roug|t iu rou t|c cold; t|cy crc uot so cddcd to a sort o crazcd,
rcvolutiouary idcological agcuda t|at it as iupossi|lc to coutcuplatc t|cu
|ciug part o t|c dcal. 1|is is uot t|c vic t|at t|c Aucricaus could cvcr |c
pcrsuadcd a|out, iucludiug iu particular t|c au|assador ou t|c grouud, |o
rcad Maoist" aud rcac|cd or |is s|otguu aud t|at as t|c cud o ratioual
discoursc. ut dcspitc t|at, t|c dcal |appcucd.
1|c |iug uadc cvcry uista|c iu t|c |oo| t|at it as possi|lc to ua|c. V|at
startcd out as a couutry aud a couuuuity t|at didu't uuc| li|c |iu, aud
|atcd t|c idca o a succcssiou |y |is sou, |ut uouct|clcss crc rcasoua|ly
|ccu ou uaiutaiuiug t|c uouarc|y as a syu|ol o coutiuuity aud all t|c rcst
o it. 1|at sccucd to |c a rcal s|o-stoppcr iu tcrus o t|c Maoists, it|
t|c dcuocratic partics souc|crc iu |ctccu. ut t|c |iug so couprc|cusivcly
discrcditcd |iuscl |y |is ou |c|avior duriug t|at |olc pcriod, t|at rcally
uo it's pcrcctly t|iu|a|lc t|at t|c uouarc|y ill uot ouly |c strippcd o auy
pocr - |ic| |as |appcucd alrcady - |ut it ill disappcar altogct|cr. I
t|iu| you cau cuvisagc t|at |appcuiug it|out t|c couutry alliug apart aud
it|out t|c uilitary rus|iug to t|c dccusc.
So, it's rcally quitc ragilc, t|c situatiou iu t|c couutry. Crisis Group is still
t|crc ou t|c grouud, c |avc a projcct aud c'rc ritiug a|out t|is stu all t|c
tiuc. It asu't just ouc rcport, it's a |olc scrics o t|cu. ut, iu a ord, c'rc
rcasoua|ly optiuistic t|at t|is t|iug ill sort itscl out. iart o t|c pro|lcu
|as |ccu t|at t|c dcuocratic political partics, |o |ad to |c t|c rcal cugiuc or
22 2`
|oldiug t|c uiddlc grouud, arc rcally aluost as |ad as t|cy'vc |ccu gcucrally
portraycd: cc|lcss, it| a lcadcrs|ip it|out auy grcat capacity aud otcu
gcriatric to |oot. ut |it |y |it |y |it, t|crc arc sigus t|at t|c couutry is
gcttiug its act togct|cr. Souc |rig|tcr, youugcr pcoplc arc cxcrcisiug a |it uorc
iulucucc as t|iugs cvolvc, aud it's just possi|lc. I'u rcasoua|ly optiuistic.
Q: Vith the iuJeeuJeuce uo of the Ceutral Asia reublics auJ the re-
groth of Islau iu that area, it's obviously causiug soue teusious beteeu
the oulatious auJ their couuuuist leaJers. Vhat Jo you thiuk are goiug
to be the solutious to soue of those situatious:
GL: Vcll, t|c |cy t|iug is t|at |y t|cir coutiuucd rcprcssiou o uost orus o
civil socicty, t|c door o t|c uosquc is t|c ouly ouc t|at's |ccu lct opcu, aud
au aul lot o t|c rcsurgcucc o Islau is a uuctiou o just t|at rcality: t|at
it's t|c ouly oru o opportuuity pcoplc |avc to uix aud iud couuou grouud.
So, it's uo surprisc t|at iu t|at cuvirouucut you'rc scciug souc radicalizatiou
o souc o t|osc Islauic uovcucuts, iiz| ut-1a|ir aud ot|crs, t|at pcr|aps
iu|crcutly |avc uo particular couuitucut to calip|atcs aud t|c rcvolutiou aud
all t|c rcst o it, or to a ji|adist uiudsct, |ut iu a scusc arc |ciug pus|cd iuto
it |y t|c coutiuuiug ugliucss o t|c rcgiucs.
It varics a lot rou couutry to couutry. Iu Lz|c|istau it's as uasty as it gcts
auy|crc. Iu souc o t|c ot|crs, 1aji|stau aud so ou - iaza||stau's a |it uorc
rclaxcd - t|is is a loug-tcru cxplosiou aitiug to |appcu. It's uot goiug to
|appcu iuucdiatcly, |ut t|is is a classic arca o loug-tcru coulict prcvcutiou
t|at c'rc or|iug ou. Vc'vc produccd, as you pro|a|ly |uo, uauy, uauy
rcports cxauiuiug dicrcut aspccts o t|c situatiou, cvcryt|iug rou t|c cottou
iudustry to t|c couditiou o t|c prisou systcu iu 1aji|istau. It's all prctty cxotic
stu, |ut all rclcvaut iu gcttiug a picturc o |at is |appcuiug. 1|c Islauic t|iug
|as a uoucutuu t|at it s|ould uot |avc |ad, |ad t|crc |ccu auy |iud o ratioual
illiugucss to crcatc gcuuiucly rcc aud opcu civil socicty structurcs aud allo
a gcuuiucly coupctitivc dcuocratic discoursc. 1|crc arc |iuts o a illiugucss
rou tiuc to tiuc to do t|at iu souc o t|cu - 1aji|istau aud iyrgyzstau aud
iaza||stau - |ut it's vcry varia|lc aud uot a good picturc I t|iu|.
Q: 1raJitioually, Crisis Grou has Joue their reortiug by couflict or
regioual areas, but there are soue theuatic areas you've gotteu iuto. Are you
coucerueJ about Jilutiug Crisis Grou's efforts iu auy ay by lookiug at
these theuatic issues, or Jo you feel that they're uecessary because there are
overarchiug theues hittiug these Jiffereut regious:
GL: Our valuc-addcd is uucquivocally iu ocusiug ou particular gcograp|ical
situatious aud t|cir couplcx dyuauics it| all t|c actors t|at iupact upou
t|cu, t|cu couiug up it| rccouucudatious aud t|cu doiug t|c appropriatc
advocacy to ollo it t|roug|. Vc arc coustautly |ciug urgcd to pool t|at cxpcricucc
rou uauy dicrcut coulict situatious aud producc |ig t|cuatic rcports ou suc|
issucs as gcudcr aud coulict, or cuvirouucutal issucs aud coulict, or iI\,AIDS
as a sccurity issuc, or |atcvcr. My ou rcluctaucc to ta|c t|is ou is airly stroug
|ccausc c siuply dou't |avc t|c |iud o pool o rcscarc| rcsourccs t|at uauy
ot|cr t|iu| tau|s or rcscarc| iustitutcs do iu t|is arca, aud it ould |c a divcrsiou
o our |asic uissiou to put suc| a pool togct|cr.
I t|iu| t|c succcss o auy iustitutiou dcpcuds ou |aviug a vcry clcar idca o
|at your particular valuc-addcd uissiou is, |at ua|cs you distiuctivcly
dicrcut aud |at particular coutri|utiou you, aud pcr|aps cvcu you alouc,
cau ua|c. Aud it| Crisis Group c'vc dciucd t|at prctty clcarly aud I t|iu|
c uccd to stic| to it. 1|at docsu't ucau t|at c ou't rou tiuc to tiuc ritc
a t|cuatic papcr i c t|iu| au issuc is |ciug ucglcctcd or uot cll uudcrstood
aud is o rcal rclcvaucc. Aud a good cxauplc o t|at is t|c papcr t|at c did a
couplc o ycars ago callcd Ludcrstaudiug Islauisu." It as au attcupt to cut
t|roug| au aul lot o t|c gcucralizcd uouscusc t|at as |ciug rittcu a|out
t|c daugcrs o Islauic activisu iu t|c coutcxt o t|c auxicty a|out tcrrorisu.
y ucticulously uutaugliug t|c dicrcut strauds o t|at activisu aud ua|iug
clcar |o liuitcd a p|cuoucuou t|c rcally auxicty-produciug |raud o Islauic
activisu - uaucly violcut ji|adisu - actually as, I t|iu| c did quitc a
scrvicc to t|c policy couuuuity.
2! 2
ut ou issucs li|c gcudcr aud coulict aud so ou, I t|iu| c do |cst |y siuply,
iu a coutcxt-spcciic ay, ua|iug clcar |at t|c uaturc o t|c gcudcr issucs
arc - uot ouly |at t|c pro|lcus or oucu arc iu a particular situatiou, |ut
also, o coursc, t|c coutri|utious t|at oucu cau ua|c as pcaccua|crs. 1|at
is souct|iug, iucidcutally, t|at is |ciug iucrcasiugly uuc| |cttcr uudcrstood |y
t|osc iu t|c coulict rcsolutiou |usiucss t|csc days, iucludiug it| t|c |clp o
t|c or| o pcoplc at t|is iustitutc.
Q: Ve kuo that iu uauy couflicts the local Jyuauics that leaJ to the
couflicts are couuouly hat's aJJresseJ iu couflict resolutiou, but systeuic
factors that uay leaJ to couflict like orlJ traJe auJ Jebt issues, overty,
the global ar ou terror uay be a little uore coulex. Does Crisis Grou
aJJress the global coutexts of these local couflicts:
GL: It's vcry |ard to quautiy t|c dcgrcc o rclcvaucc or iupact souc o t|c
glo|al allpapcr is |aviug ou t|c iuucdiatc situatiou iu rout o you. Vc
ccrtaiuly |uo t|at povcrty as suc| is uot ucccssarily auy |iud o iudicator o
coulict - it's ouly povcrty |cu cou|iucd it| a scusc o group dcprivatiou or
iucquality or souct|iug o t|at |iud t|at it ta|cs o as a causc. Agaiu, rcligious
ailiatiou |y itscl is uot au iudicator o auyt|iug, uot lcast |ccausc t|crc arc so
uauy dicrcut strcaus, it|iu Islauic t|oug|t iu particular.
Ouc o t|c uost iutcrcstiug rcports c did - aud ouc o t|c uost douloadcd
rcports c'vc cvcr douc - is t|c ouc I just ucutioucd, Ludcrstaudiug
Islauisu," |ic| is au attcupt to pull apart t|c dicrcut strauds: t|c
uissiouary strauds |ic| arc uou-political iu c|aractcr, al|cit souctiucs airly
uudaucutalist, aud |avc uo particular siguiicaucc as coulict gcucrators; uorc
or lcss dcuocratic political strauds; aud t|cu t|c violcut ji|adist strauds - aud
uutaugliug t|at iu t|c parts o t|c orld |crc t|csc t|iugs |avc particular
rcsouaucc or appcal.
Vc ccrtaiuly ta|c t|c poiut ou ccrtaiu issucs, li|c t|c uurcsolvcd Isracli-ialcstiuiau
coulict t|at is a |ugc sourcc o ougoiug gricvaucc rig|t across t|c Ara| Islauic
orld. Vc ua|c t|c poiut ovcr aud ovcr agaiu t|at uauy, uauy o t|csc coulict
situatious or tcrrorist situatious ould |c a |cll o a lot uorc couorta|ly
rcsolva|lc, it| a lot lcss couuuuity support or t|c pcrpctrators o violcucc
aud so ou, i c could do a scrious jo| o tac|liug t|osc issucs. Aud t|at's ouc
o t|c rcasous c spcud so uuc| tiuc ou t|osc |ig, diicult aud iutracta|lc
issucs - |ccausc t|cy |avc so uuc| rcsouaucc clsc|crc.
ut |aviug said all t|at, |at c uaiuly do is just couccutratc ou particular
rcgioual situatious, couutry situatious, aud try aud uutauglc t|c dyuauics t|at
arc actually or|iug iu t|osc particular cuvirouucuts, aud lcavc it to ot|crs
to dra attcutiou to t|c grcat |ig t|cuatic gcucralizatious t|at it's possi|lc to
dra. Vc rcgard t|c rolc t|at rcsourcc s|ortagcs play iu coulict, t|c rolc t|at
cuvirouucutal dcgradatiou plays iu coulict, t|c rolc t|at grccd vcrsus gricvaucc
plays iu coulict - t|crc arc t|corics ou all t|is stu aud lots aud lots o
litcraturc, |ic| c rcgard as uscully iudicativc o |at uig|t |c opcratiug
iu a particular locatiou, |at uig|t |c a su|tcxt |ic| lics |c|iud souct|iug
uorc o|vious. Aud to t|c cxtcut t|at it |clps us ocus ou possi|lc causcs, t|is
|iud o aualysis is quitc uscul.
I dou't |uo i t|at auscrs t|c qucstiou. I'u uot uudcrplayiug t|c rclcvaucc
o t|csc t|iugs as actors. ut |ct|cr t|cy'rc dircctly cxplauatory actors iu a
particular casc ou t|c grouud is alays a |it pro|lcuatic. Lsually souct|iug
uuc| uorc iuucdiatc, iu tcrus o local gricvauccs or local pcrsoualitics or
local uaducu, is uorc cxplauatory.
You cau ccrtaiuly ucvcr uudcrstatc t|c rolc o iudividuals. lor all t|c t|corics
rittcu ovcr t|c ycars a|out t|c currcuts t|at gcucratc coulict, |ct|cr you |avc
t|c luc| o t|c dra it| iudividuals - a Maudcla or a Miloscvic |cu you'rc iu
trausitiou, au Araat or au Atatur| - it rcally is just |ugcly siguiicaut. 1|at is
vcry uuas|ioua|lc iu t|c litcraturc, |ut iu t|c rcal orld it is cuoruously rclcvaut.
Q: Iu Jealiug ith high levels of goveruueut or iuteruatioual boJies, you've
saiJ you cau aeal to the level of reasou or euotiou. ut is it a challeuge to
2 2
get ublic suort: Ve've talkeJ briefly about your ue cauaigu iug. Do
you feel auy ueeJ to look at ublic eJucatiou about reveutiou, about the
ossibilities for eacekeeiug, about the thiugs that uight builJ a geueral
uuJerstauJiug auoug the ublic that ill allo you to uobilize uore quickly
heu ueeJeJ:
GL: Vcll, I'u uot surc t|at pu|lic cducatiou is t|c rig|t ord |ccausc t|at
iuplics souc uassivc iustitutioual couuitucut, |ut c arc iu t|c |usiucss,
ccrtaiuly all o us iu t|c iGO aud acadcuic pcacc couuuuity, o tryiug to gct
pcoplc to uudcrstaud uuc| |cttcr t|c uaturc o coulict aud t|c rclcvaucc o
t|at coulict to t|cir ou livcs aud t|c ucccssity o t|cir ou govcruucuts to
|c playiug a uajor rolc iu prcvcutiug aud rcsolviug t|cu. 1|is is au casicr scll
t|csc days as t|c orld gcts cvcu uorc glo|alizcd aud iutcrdcpcudcut, aud it
|ccoucs t|at uuc| |ardcr to tal| as icvillc C|au|crlaiu did iu t|c 1930s o
quarrcls |ctccu pcoplc |ic| c |uo littlc iu ar aay couutrics," |ccausc
c |uo a|out t|c iupact o ailcd or ailiug roguc statcs |ar|oriug tcrrorisu,
c |uo a|out t|c potcutial iupact or t|c trausport o capous o uass
dcstructiou, c |uo a|out t|c iupact or rcugcc outlos, |calt| paudcuics
sprcadiug - all o t|csc t|iugs t|at arc vcry capa|lc o iupactiug vcry dircctly
ou pcoplc's livcs.
So, it's a qucstiou o |o c gct t|at ucssagc out. 1raditioual ucdia is t|c
classic vc|iclc or doiug t|at, aud so c do spcud a lot o tiuc tal|iug to
jourualists aud gcttiug t|cu to ritc storics a|out t|is; ritiug, dircctly, op-
cds or pu|licatiou iu t|c opiuiou pagcs or t|osc |o rcad t|cu; |ut also
or|iug it| t|c uorc uscr-ricudly orus o ucdia, li|c 60 Miuutcs," AC's
iig|tliuc," aud prograus o t|at |iud, aud cucouragiug t|cu - or iu souc
cascs usiug our rcsourccs to assist t|cu to put tcaus iu t|c icld - to actually
rccord |at's goiug ou aud to gct t|at iuoruatiou |ac| to a largcr audicucc.
Iu t|c clcctrouic agc, it| t|c Vc| aud pcoplc's ar grcatcr acccssi|ility to ccd
iuoruatiou t|roug| tcxtiug aud c-uail aud all t|osc ot|cr dcviccs, t|crc's a
|olc uc uuivcrsc o couuuuicatiou it| a uass audicucc t|at is opcuiug up,
aud c'rc just ccliug our ay as to |o |cst to utilizc t|at tcc|uology. icoplc
o uy agc arc rcuar|a|ly ill-cquippcd to |c crcativc a|out t|is, |ut c ccrtaiuly
|avc plcuty o pcoplc ou |oard |o arc.
ut all t|at said, t|crc's alays goiug to |c souct|iug o a divisiou o la|or
iu orgauizatious as to |o docs |at, aud I t|iu| Crisis Group's rcal, rcal
valuc-addcd iu t|c largcr sc|cuc o t|iugs is uot so uuc| grassroots caupaigu
orgauizatiou itscl, |ut as au outit |ic| is rcally gcttiug to t|c |cart o
uudcrstaudiug t|c dyuauics o t|csc issucs, idcutiyiug t|c appropriatc
solutious, aud cugagiug iu t|c |iud o advocacy |ic| gcts t|at aualysis aud
t|osc rccouucudatious iuto t|c |cads o policyua|crs aud t|osc |o arc
capa|lc o dircctly iulucuciug policyua|crs, |y |ic| I ucau ot|cr iGOs iu
t|c policy couuuuity, aud o coursc, t|c ucdia.
It's iuportaut to rccoguizc |ot| your strcugt|s aud your liuitatious as au
orgauizatiou aud or| to your strcugt|s, so t|at pro|a|ly ucaus t|at c'll
ucvcr gct quitc t|c dcgrcc o rccoguitiou t|at souc ot|cr orgauizatious do t|at
arc uuc| uorc ocuscd ou uass caupaiguiug: t|c Auucstys aud t|c iuuau
lig|ts Vatc|cs aud so ou. 1|cir csscutial raisou d'ctrc is to idcutiy a pro|lcu
aud t|cu to put t|c spotlig|t o rcally iutcusc pu|licity ou it, iu t|c |opc
aud cxpcctatiou t|at |y doiug so, policyua|crs ill |c uovcd to ta|c souc
actiou. Vc, |y coutrast, arc dcaliug uost o t|c tiuc it| ar uorc couplcx
pro|lcus rcquiriug couplcx solutious t|at dou't casily lcud t|cusclvcs to scvcu-
sccoud souud-|itcs or t|at oru o couuuuicatiou. ut c or| togct|cr vcry
|aruouiously it| ot|cr orgauizatious iu t|c pcacc couuuuity, aud t|at's a
vcry uscul divisiou o la|or.
Q: 1he Iuteruatioual Crisis Grou baseJ iu russels you're very ell
iutegrateJ ith the U.N. systeu, ith the L.U. [Luroeau Uuiou. Ho
effective has it beeu iu Jealiug ith the UuiteJ States' goveruueut auJ the
oers that be here:
2~ 2
GL: Morc ccctivc t|au you ould pcr|aps t|iu| givcu t|at so uauy o our
scuior ucu|crs arc rcugccs rou t|c Cliutou aduiuistratiou. 1|c trut| is c
|avc a vcry stroug oicc iu Vas|iugtou, lcd |y Mar| Sc|ucidcr, a orucr |cad
o t|c icacc Corps aud latiu Aucricau |uuau rig|ts spccialist, |o, alt|oug|
a Dcuocrat, |as spcut ycars or|iug across t|c aislc, aud is vcry cll-|uou
iu t|c aduiuistratiou. Morcovcr, c |avc ou our |oard, o coursc, a couplctc
cross-scctiou o lcpu|licaus aud Dcuocrats, iucludiug souc o quitc a |ard-
liuc, uco-cou pcrsuasiou. Aud t|at's ucaut t|at c'vc alays |ad prctty good
acccss to t|is aduiuistratiou, cvcu |cu c'vc |ccu quitc critical o souc o
t|c t|iugs it's |ccu doiug.
I, pcrsoually, or cxauplc, |avc |uou iaul Voloitz vcry cll siucc |c
as au|assador iu Iudoucsia aud |avc alays |ad a lot o rcspcct or |is
iutclligcucc aud couuitucut, cvcu t|oug| I couplctcly disagrccd it| |is rolc
iu t|c Iraq ar aud quitc a c ot|cr t|iugs as cll; |ut it as alays possi|lc
to uaiutaiu a civilizcd couvcrsatiou. 1|c trut| o t|c uattcr is our rcports arc uot
rittcu iu a stridcut, dcclauatory uodc. Vc cau |c quitc toug| iu our aualysis aud
our prcscriptious, |ut it's iu a ay t|at's calculatcd to |c iulucutial rat|cr t|au
couutcrproductivc, aud |asically aloug t|c liucs t|at c |avc a pro|lcu |crc, lct's
try aud iud ays togct|cr o solviug it - iu your iutcrcsts as uuc| as cvcryouc
clsc's." Aud t|at tcuds to |c rcasoua|ly productivc.
Also, o coursc, Vas|iugtou isu't aud ucvcr |as |ccu a uouolit|, aud t|crc
arc all sorts o iutcragcucy arguucuts goiug ou all t|c tiuc. 1|crc's alays
|ouud to |c soucouc souc|crc iu t|c systcu, cvcu iu t|c uost apparcutly
iupcuctra|lc o aduiuistratious, t|at li|cs t|c liuc you'rc ta|iug aud is prcparcd
to usc t|c uatcrial |ic| you arc supplyiug. Siuilarly, iu Cougrcss c |avc
cxccllcut rclatious rig|t across t|c party spcctruus aud spcud a lot o tiuc
giviug cvidcucc ou t|c iill aud tal|iug to pcoplc. So, as uuc| as auy siuglc
iGO cau |c iulucutial, I t|iu| c'vc |ccu rcasoua|ly siguiicaut playcrs iu
Vas|iugtou, as clsc|crc.
Q: All of the areas I have beeu stuJyiug are Jealiug ith couflicts that are
occurriug iuterually rather thau across iuteruatioual borJers. Vith this
roliferatiou of iuterual couflicts iu the ost-ColJ Var erioJ, hat Jo you
thiuk iuteruatioual orgauizatious auJ iutergoveruueutal orgauizatious, like
the UuiteJ Natious, ueeJ to Jo to ueet these challeuges of iuterual couflicts:
GL: It's truc t|at is t|c uaturc o coutcuporary coulict. I you loo| at a grap|
iu tcrus o t|c ay iu |ic| coulicts |avc |ccu occurriug, iutcrstatc oucs
just disappcar |y t|c cud o t|c '80s. 1|c iutcrual oucs arc rcally t|c gigautic
|ul| o it. Aud t|at t|rc t|c iutcruatioual systcu, t|c Luitcd iatious aud
ot|crs, iuto a |it o turuoil t|roug| t|c '90s, |ccausc you o|viously |avc a
uccd or iutcruatioual actiou iu a uuu|cr o t|csc situatious |crc tcrri|lc
t|iugs arc |appcuiug, aud t|c govcruucut iu qucstiou is cit|cr uua|lc to do
auyt|iug a|out it or is part o t|c pro|lcu |ccausc it's actually cit|cr cugagcd
iu slaug|tcr or ct|uic clcausiug itscl, or cucouragiug ot|crs to do it. So, t|at
as rcally t|c grcat tcusiou iu t|c iutcruatioual systcu, |ic| as ouc o t|c
rcasous or t|c |irt| o uy ou orgauizatiou: t|is iua|ility to rcact ccctivcly
to t|c lauda-typc situatious, to t|c al|au-typc situatious, culuiuatiug iu t|c
Src|rcuica uassacrc iu particular. V|at do you do a|out it.
1|c L.i. C|artcr sccus to say iutcrual aairs arc uo|ody clsc's |usiucss, aud
t|at's |ccu t|c grcat traditiou o iutcruatioual rclatious. Aud yct ou t|c ot|cr
|aud, t|crc arc |uuau rig|ts iupcrativcs, plus |asic |uuau iustiucts, cryiug
out to do souct|iug. 1|at issuc as just uot rcsolvcd duriug t|c '90s, aud t|c
Luitcd iatious totally louudcrcd or uost o t|at pcriod.
V|at actually |appcucd is, I t|iu|, t|at c'vc solvcd t|c pro|lcu couccptually
it| t|c cucrgcucc o t|is couccpt o t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct," |ic|
I'll |c tal|iug uorc a|out t|is cvcuiug. ut |at t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct
priuciplc |asically says is t|at dcaliug it| t|csc iutcrual situatious is t|c rout-
liuc rcspousi|ility o t|c statc itscl: c'll pay ac|uolcdgucut aud lip scrvicc,
c'll acccpt t|at priuciplc. ut i t|c sovcrcigu statc itscl lac|s t|c ill or lac|s
t|c capacity to do auyt|iug a|out civiliau protcctiou iu t|csc situatious, t|cu
`0 `1
t|c rcspousi|ility s|its to t|c idcr iutcruatioual couuuuity to do |atcvcr
is ucccssary to prcvcut a situatiou uuoldiug iu a catastrop|ic ay, or i it docs
so uuold to rcact to it appropriatcly, ultiuatcly |y uilitary iutcrvcutiou i all
clsc ails, iu rcally cxtrcuc situatious.
1|crc's |ccu a lot o rcsistaucc to t|is priuciplc o t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct,
or l2i as its |ccouc |uou, |ic| o|viously as rat|cr ucrvc-jaugliug to a
lot o govcruucuts arouud t|c orld. ut ouc o t|c |ig aud |croic t|iugs t|at
|appcucd as t|at, t|roug| a |olc scqucucc o cvcuts, culuiuatiug iu t|c Vorld
Suuuit iu 200S at t|c Luitcd iatious, t|at priuciplc as actually uuauiuously
acccptcd |y all t|c orld's lcadcrs. 1|c |ig tric| uo is to opcratioualizc t|at,
gct cvcry|ody to pay uorc t|au lip scrvicc iu particular situatious as t|cy arisc,
aud Darur is a good currcut cxauplc o t|c diiculty iu gcttiug t|at to |appcu.
ut I t|iu| couccptually c |avc ovcrcouc t|at |asic dilcuua t|at iutcrual
coulict as uo|ody clsc's |usiucss, at lcast iu t|c casc o t|c oucs iuvolviug
rcally catastrop|ic civiliau protcctiou issucs. So, lic docs uovc ou.
Vc iu act |avc douc a lot |cttcr as au iutcruatioual couuuuity iu just |clpiug
dcal it| ot|cr orus o iutcrual coulict t|at arc capa|lc o solutiou t|roug|
iutclligcut applicatiou o policy aud dcccut ucdiatiou aud a littlc |it o cxtcrual
|aud-|oldiug, a littlc |it o cxtcrual prcssurc o ouc |iud or auot|cr - uot
ta|iug t|c oru o uilitary iutcrvcutious, |ut just |clpiug situatious iud t|cir
solutiou. Lxauplcs arc t|c uort|-sout| situatiou iu Sudau - ucdiatcd |y t|c
icuyaus it| a lot o iuput rou a lot o ot|crs, iucludiug oursclvcs - aud t|c
situatiou iu uruudi |ic| |as, it| a lot o cort |y a lot o playcrs iucludiug
t|c Luitcd iatious, just uauagcd to |old togct|cr ovcr t|c last dccadc aud
a |al, cvcu t|oug| it |as cxactly t|c sauc dcuograp|ics as iu lauda, it|
iutu aud 1utsi tri|al traditious o coulict aud coutiuuiug local tcusious.
1|c trut| is t|at uorc coulicts |avc |ccu rcsolvcd ovcr t|c last 1S ycars t|au
|avc startcd. So, dcspitc popular opiuiou to t|c coutrary, aud pcr|aps all our
iutuitious to t|c coutrary, t|crc's actually |ccu a vcry siguiicaut dccliuc iu t|c
uuu|cr o coulicts, t|c uuu|cr o |attlc dcat|s, cvcu t|c uuu|cr o atrocitics
aud uassacrcs. Aud uaiuly t|at's |ccu attri|uta|lc to a lot o |auds-ou cort
|y t|c Luitcd iatious aud ot|cr rclcvaut playcrs, rcgioual orgauizatious aud so
ou, t|at |avc rcgardcd as t|cir rcspousi|ility to try aud assist iu t|c rcsolutiou,
rat|cr t|au just lcaviug it to t|c iutcrual playcrs.

... acs:tc cla. c:o:co tc tlc ccot.a.,, aoa c.las all c.
:ot:t:cos tc tlc ccot.a.,, tlc.c`s actall, lcco a c., s:o:j:caot
accl:oc :o tlc olc. cj ccojl:cts, tlc olc. cj lattlc
acatls, cco tlc olc. cj at.cc:t:cs aoa assac.cs.

Q: I oulJ like to follo u ou your couueut about the VorlJ Suuuit iu
200 auJ the oiut that resousibility to rotect as a coucet as actually
acceteJ iu riucile. I'u iuteresteJ iu your oiuiou of the ays iJeas
chauge over tiue is it just about uiche Jilouacy: Is there auy ay of
iustitutioualiziug that iu a ay that uore rogressive iJeas cau euter the
UuiteJ Natious or other grous iuteruatioually:
GL: Vcll, I t|iu| t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct is au iutriguiug cxauplc iu t|c
|istory o idcas |ccausc it's pro|a|ly t|c astcst iu |istory to |c acccptcd - to
uovc iu t|is casc rou a glcau iu t|c cyc o au o|scurc couuissiou t|roug| to
a uuauiuously L.i. Gcucral Asscu|ly-cudorscd couccpt. All o t|csc t|iugs
- a scrics o rcports, iucludiug o t|c |ig|-lcvcl paucl o t|c sccrctary-gcucral
aud a rcport o t|c sccrctary-gcucral |iuscl, t|c rolc at t|c govcruucutal lcvcl
o couutrics li|c Cauada - cauc togct|cr iu a rcuar|a|lc, aud I t|iu| a airly
ortuitous, ay. It docs uorually ta|c uuc| lougcr t|au t|at or idcas to catc|
|old aud to |c actually cu|raccd or to gct t|at dcgrcc o iupriuatur.
Idcas arc vcry iuportaut. 1|cy arc ays o rauiug aud couccptualiziug dc|atcs
aud cua|liug pcoplc, i you cau iud t|c rig|t idca aud t|c rig|t couccpt, to
iud at lcast t|c |cgiuuiugs o couuou grouud |crc t|at didu't prcviously
`2 ``
cxist. 1|crc arc alays all sorts o pcoplc |o arc vcry s|cptical aud cyuical,
|o say, V|y arc you astiug your tiuc it| all t|at ru||is|. ust gct ou it|
t|c |usiucss o tryiug to sort t|iugs out iustcad o orryiug too uuc| a|out
|o you uay drcss it up." ut t|is cau |c vcry, vcry iuportaut iudccd.
Q: 1he geueral coucet of resousibility to rotect has beeu acceteJ, auJ
the oular ercetiou of that coucet seeus to be acceteJ as ell, uot just
ou the goveruueut levels, but there as the receut reort that you JiJ a story
ou about the geueral oulatiou sayiug that this souuJs like a gooJ iJea. ut
here Jo you Jra the liue, or here Jo you thiuk the liue shoulJ be Jrau
for the resousibility to rotect: Does it cover lack of health care: Does it
cover oor treatueut of oueu: Is it strictly a questiou of violeut Jeaths:
GL: 1|c p|rasc itscl, rcspousi|ility to protcct," is o coursc capa|lc o |ciug givcu
a vcry gcucral applicatiou, cxactly iu t|c ay t|c p|rasc |uuau sccurity" as capa|lc
o |ciug givcu vcry |road applicatiou. My iustiuct is to try to prcscrvc it or t|c quitc
uarro situatiou o uass atrocity criucs, rccoguiziug t|at alt|oug| t|is is ouly ouc
o t|c orld's pro|lcus - aud uot ucccssarily |y auy ucaus t|c |iggcst - it's au
arca |ic| |as sccu souc catastrop|ic |orrors iu liviug ucuory, aud just iu t|c last
couplc o dccadcs, aud |crc it's critically iuportaut to try to crcatc souc |iud o
iutcruatioual couscusus as to |o to dcal it|. 1|c trut| o t|c uattcr is t|crc as
uo couscusus at all uutil vcry rcccutly it|, as I'll say iu t|c lccturc, a lot o rcsistaucc
to t|c couccpt |ic| prcccdcd it, o t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc."
1|c poiut a|out c|augiug t|at lauguagc - turuiug t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc upsidc
dou aud couiug up it| a couccpt o uot a rig|t" |ut a rcspousi|ility," aud
uot to iutcrvcuc" |ut to protcct," or iu ot|cr ords, loo|iug at t|csc issucs
rou t|c victius' poiut o vic rat|cr t|au t|at o t|c |ig guys t|roiug t|cir
cig|t arouud - as to crcatc t|c possi|ility o a couscusus |cu uouc |ad
prcviously cxistcd as to |o to addrcss t|csc issucs. Aud I t|iu| it's iuportaut
iu t|at coutcxt uot to dilutc t|at |y ua|iug l2i au all-purposc vc|iclc or
uauy arcas o pu|lic policy |ic| uay |avc t|c capa|ility liuguistically o
|ciug cu|raccd uudcr t|at uu|rclla.
Q: 1he Jiffereuce there also I thiuk is that a lot of these other issues alreaJy
have structures set u to Jeal ith theu, couseusus ou theu iu other laces,
so you Jou't ueeJ uecessarily the resousibility to rotect structure.
GL: Vcll, t|at's truc. You |avc t|c Millcuuiuu Dcvclopucut Goals, al|cit uorc
|ouorcd iu t|c |rcac| t|au t|c o|scrvaucc: t|crc arc s|ortalls iu dclivcra|ility
aud dclivcry, aud s|ortalls iu uatural couuitucut, |ut you dou't |avc arguucut
a|out t|c |asic couccptual issucs t|at arc iuvolvcd. 1|is is au arca |crc t|crc
as a |ugc arguucut, aud t|is littlc p|rasc |as scrvcd to dcusc a grcat dcal o
it - uot it|out potcutial or |ac|slidiug, |ut it's au arca |crc you'vc just got
to |aug ou to suc| gaius as you'vc |ccu a|lc to ua|c.
Q: No, iu au iJeal orlJ, there oulJ be a relatively quick rocess by hich this
coulJ be brought to bear iu a couflict situatiou here there ere a lot of Jeaths
occurriug. Vheu you look at hat you oulJ iJeally like to see haeuiug ith
this coucet beiug iuleueuteJ, ho Jo you euvisiou that haeuiug:
GL: Vcll, I cuvisagc carly-aruiug alaru |clls goiug o cvcry|crc. I c
cuvisagc, or cxauplc, auot|cr lauda - it| vcry carly cvidcucc cucrgiug
ou t|c grouud o uot just souc uiuor ordcr violcucc, |ut potcutially uassivcly
orc|cstratcd violcucc o a vcry scrious |iud - |cu t|at |appcus uo, uuli|c
t|c carly '90s, I t|iu| you cau |c assurcd t|at t|crc arc cuoug| rcsourccs rou
uy ou orgauizatiou aud uauy ot|crs ou t|c grouud uo or t|c alaru |clls to
riug. It ou't |c a uattcr o pcoplc |ciug a|lc to iguorc aud prctcud t|at t|cy
dou't |uo a|out |at's |appcuiug. It's t|cu goiug to |c a uattcr o uo|iliziug
rcsourccs |ot| iu a top-dou aud |ottou-up ay.
I t|iu|, too, t|at arucd it| t|c couscusus |ic| uo cxists at t|c Vorld
Suuuit aud arucd it| t|c Sccurity Couucil itscl |aviug acccptcd t|c
priuciplc o rcspousi|ility to protcct, c |avc uo a vc|iclc to go dircctly to t|c
Sccurity Couucil, it| t|c c|aucc t|csc days o uuc| lcss iuucdiatc rcsistaucc
t|au ould prcviously |avc |ccu t|c casc. You ill still gct rcsistaucc o t|c
|iud t|at c sa just a couplc o uout|s ago to |uuau rig|ts violatious iu
`! `
Myauuar, or urua, it| C|iua aud lussia aud souc ot|cr couutrics or|iug
vcry |ard to cxcludc t|cu rou cousidcratiou |y t|c Sccurity Couucil - |ut
t|cy crc uot rcspousi|ility to protcct situatious o actual, iupcudiug uass
|illiugs or ct|uic clcausiug.
I t|iu| uo, iu a situatiou li|c iosovo iu '99 or lauda iu '94 or Src|rcuica iu
'9S - t|c classic cxauplcs c all t|iu| o - ouc or ot|cr couutrics ould |avc
t|cu iu to t|c Sccurity Couucil vcry, vcry quic|ly. Aud t|c sccrctary-gcucral
|iuscl |as t|c capacity to |riug uattcrs to t|c attcutiou o t|c Sccurity
Couucil, aud |c ould rcgard |iuscl as |aviug, uudcr t|c covcr o t|c Gcucral
Asscu|ly rcsolutiou at t|c Vorld Suuuit iu 200S aud t|c Sccurity Couucil's
ou t|iug, auplc uaudatc to do t|at. It's iuportaut t|at |c |c propcrly adviscd
aud supportcd iu t|is, aud t|us it's vcry iuportaut t|at c procccd it|
souct|iug t|at's ou t|c |oo|s at t|c uoucut, aud t|at's t|c cousolidatiou o
t|is positiou o spccial advisor ou t|c prcvcutiou o gcuocidc aud ot|cr uass
atrocitics or criucs agaiust |uuauity. I as ou a couuittcc t|at rccouucudcd
t|at t|at positiou |c uaiutaiucd aud iu act upgradcd. So, I t|iu| or all t|osc
rcasous, ouc could cxpcct t|c issuc to gct t|at |iud o attcutiou vcry quic|ly.
It's alays goiug to |c ucssy aud diicult, |ut I'u rcasoua|ly couidcut t|at
iu a rcally star|, uuau|iguous casc o iuuiucut violcucc or actually occurriug
uassivc violcucc, c'd gct a uuc| |cttcr rcspousc t|au c did iu t|c '90s. ut c
cau't |c couplaccut a|out t|at aud I just |opc to God t|c tcst ucvcr coucs.
Q: Vheu DoualJ Steiuberg as here, he really felt they haJ beeu souehat
bliuJsiJeJ by hat haeueJ iu RauJa.
2

GL: Vcll, Dou as iu t|c uiddlc o all t|at. ut it| t|c Mogadis|u syudrouc
aud all t|c rcst o it at t|c tiuc, it as uot a |appy uoucut or Cliutou or
Madclciuc Al|rig|t or auy o t|cu; t|cy just didu't aut to |uo at t|at
stagc. Aud, o coursc, t|cy couldu't |avc, I supposc, cuvisagcd t|c scalc o it.
ut uo t|at c'vc sccu t|c scalc, uo t|at c'vc sccu t|c rapidity it| |ic|
caruagc o t|is scalc cau occur, I t|iu| c just |avc a uuc| uorc |cig|tcucd
scusitivity. icoplc say Darur is t|c couutcr-cxauplc, |ut iu souc ays it is a
dcuoustratiou o just |o diicult it is to uo|ilizc au ccctivc rcspousc. ut
Darur as ucvcr quitc as uuau|iguous aud as casily dcscri|a|lc a situatiou
as t|c lauda ouc or t|c al|aus oucs crc. I dou't iu auy ay diuiuis| t|c
siguiicaucc or ugliucss o it, |ut it's a vcry diicult ouc or auyouc to |audlc,
cvcu it| t|c |cst ill aud capacity iu t|c orld.
Q: Vith the situatiou iu Darfur, the goveruueut is actually resousible for
these atrocities, or is assuueJ to be, auJ so this oulJ be a situatiou that the
iuteruatioual couuuuity has a resousibility to iuterveue siuce the sovereigu
goveruueut is uot. So, accorJiug to the couuissiou [ou Iuterveutiou auJ
State Sovereiguty, hat is the uext ste to be takeu: Joes their sovereiguty
ueeJ to be resecteJ or cau they take stes to iuterveue:
GL: Vcll, I t|iu| it is a casc o au applicatiou o t|c rcspousi|ility to
protcct iu t|c scusc t|at |crc's a govcruucut t|at, cit|cr t|roug| iua|ility or
uorc o|viously t|roug| |ciug uot illiug to do so, |as ailcd to protcct a
siguiicaut portiou o its ou populatiou - aud iu act uorc t|au t|at, |as
activcly cucouragcd t|c jaujaccd uilitia to go atcr particular scctious o
t|c couuuuity, startiug it| t|c origiual rc|cl groups, |ut t|cu cxtcudiug
out to a uuu|cr o villagcs t|at arc sccu as supportiug, tacitly or ot|crisc,
t|osc rc|cls, it| t|iugs dcvclopiug ou a vcry ugly scalc. It's lcss iutcusc at t|c
uoucut, pcr|aps |ccausc so uauy pcoplc arc alrcady displaccd or |avc alrcady
|ccu |illcd or |avc dicd. 1|crc's au uucasy stalcuatc at t|c uoucut, |ut souc
violcucc ccrtaiuly coutiuucs to occur.
So, |at do you do iu t|at situatiou. You cau propcrly rcgard it as a casc or
iutcruatioual iutcrvcutiou: clcarly t|crc's |ccu a ailurc to prcvcut it, so c'rc uoviug
iuto t|c rcactiou stagc o t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct coutiuuuu. ut |at oru
s|ould t|at rcactiou ta|c. It's uot a uattcr o rcspcctiug sovcrciguty uo; it's a
uattcr o just or|iug out |at is ou |alaucc li|cly to |c t|c uost ccctivc policy
approac|, aud t|c ouc t|at's li|cly to |avc lcast dousidc ris| couscqucuccs.

2 DoualJ Steiuberg soke at the iustitute as art of the DistiuguisheJ Lecture Series ou ]auuary 14, 2004. irou 1994
to 199, he as seuior Jirector of Africau affairs at the Natioual Security Couucil.
` `
1|c ay t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity |as |ccu approac|iug Darur so ar |as
|ccu to try aud gct a ucgotiatcd solutiou, |ic| iuvolvcs t|rcc |asic clcucuts:
irst, a ccascirc, so t|at uo|ody is doiug auy activc s|ootiug auyuorc; sccoud, a
civiliau protcctiou stratcgy to cusurc t|at pcoplc iu t|c displaccd arcas arc uot ouly
protcctcd rou auy urt|cr uilitary actiou or sporadic actiou |y raidiug partics
or uilitias aud so ou, |ut also protcctcd iu t|c scusc o cusuriug t|cir survival
it| ood, atcr aud all t|c rcst; aud t|ird, a political scttlcucut to rcsolvc t|c
origiual outstaudiug gricvauccs |ctccu t|c Daruriau rc|cl groups aud t|c ccutral
govcruucut. 1|crc's alrcady |ccu a pcacc agrccucut ucgotiatcd a ycar or so ago,
|ut t|at's cxtrcucly ragilc at t|c uoucut aud as ucvcr rcally good cuoug| to
rcsolvc t|c uudcrlyiug issucs. So, all o t|csc clcucuts arc outstaudiug.
1o addrcss t|c iuucdiatc issuc o civiliau protcctiou, t|crc |as |ccu t|is
Aricau Luiou orcc o 7,000; it |as gouc iu t|crc it| t|c couscut o t|c
i|artouu govcruucut atcr a lot o prcssurc rou t|c ot|cr Aricau couutrics.
1|c |ig issuc uo is |ct|cr i|artouu ill couscut to puttiug auot|cr 13,000
iutcruatioual troops, |asically rou t|c L.i. couutrics, iu t|crc as cll to |riug
t|at protcctiou orcc up to 20,000, |ic| is argua|ly |at is ucccssary to
protcct rou auy ougoiug violcucc aud also to givc pcoplc suicicut couidcucc
t|at t|cy cau actually uovc |ac| to t|cir |ouc villagcs aud |c sac iu doiug
so. ut t|at's souct|iug t|c i|artouu govcruucut coutiuucs to say it ill, it
ou't, it ill, it ou't. It's goiug |ac|ards aud orards, aud t|is is a staud-o
at t|c uoucut.
1|at's lcd to, o coursc, pcoplc sayiug t|is is just tcrri|lc - t|crc's so uuc|
sucriug, aud it uust |c tiuc or cocrcivc uilitary orcc to |c applicd. uitc
apart rou t|c issuc o |o is goiug to voluutccr to do it - |ic| is alays
a vcry |ig practical issuc - t|crc is a rcal, couccptual issuc o |ct|cr t|is is
a propcr casc or t|c cxcrcisc o uou-couscusual cocrcivc orcc. 1|is is |crc
you gct iuto quitc couplcx arguucuts a|out |at t|c propcr critcria s|ould |c
or t|c usc o uilitary orcc. 1|crc arc a uuu|cr o t|cu, aud cvcu i you'rc
satisicd t|at t|c suicicut t|rcs|old o rcal |aru is occurriug, cvcu i you'rc
satisicd t|at t|c rcspousc ill |c propcrly uotivatcd, cvcu i you'rc satisicd
t|at t|c rcspousc ill |c proportioual to t|c uaturc o t|at |aru, cvcu i you'rc
satisicd t|at all ot|cr uou-uilitary optious |avc cit|cr |ccu tricd or ould |c
li|cly to ail i t|cy crc tricd, you'vc still got ouc last critcria alays to apply,
aud t|at is t|c |alaucc o couscqucuccs: Vill a uoucouscusual uilitary iuvasiou
actually do uorc good t|au |aru or t|c couvcrsc.
Aud t|is is a vcry |ard qucstiou to auscr iu Darur. My orgauizatiou |as rcstlcd
it| it aud c'vc |asically ta|cu t|c vic t|at iu t|c prcscut circuustauccs,
puttiug iu au iuvasiou orcc - cvcu i ouc could |c uustcrcd - ould aluost
ccrtaiuly causc uorc |aru t|au it ould rcsolvc or to uaiu rcasous. Ouc,
it ould ua|c a|solutcly iupossi|lc t|c coutiuuatiou o t|c |uuauitariau
rclic cort, |ic| is currcutly ccdiug ovcr 2 uilliou pcoplc iu t|c caups
it| souct|iug li|c 13,000 |uuauitariau agcucy or|crs ou t|c grouud: t|c
rcasou |ciug you just couldu't givc t|cu t|c protcctiou t|cy uccd, aud t|c
logistical cutry poiuts iu tcrus o t|c supply c|aius arc so liuitcd t|at t|c
Sudau govcruucut could vcry casily c|o|c o supply aud ua|c it iupossi|lc
or t|c agcucics to do t|cir jo|.
1|c ot|cr t|iug t|at aluost ccrtaiuly ould |appcu is t|at t|c vcry ragilc
uort|-sout| agrccucut, |ic| rcsolvcd a 20-ycar civil ar |ic| cost t|c livcs
o ovcr 2 uilliou pcoplc a uuc| grcatcr scalc t|au Darur) aud is just |oldiug
togct|cr |y a vcry sliu t|rcad at t|c uoucut, ould uot |old it| a grcat
lood o iuvasiou orccs couiug iu to t|c cst.
3

Aud t|at's t|c |iud o calculatiou you |avc to ua|c. It docsu't ucau you
t|ro up your |auds aud say, Oi, t|at's it, t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct |as
uo applicatiou |crc. It's ailcd." V|at it docs ucau is t|at you |avc to start
ocusiug vcry |ard ou souc ot|cr prcssurc poiuts t|at ill actually c|augc t|c
|c|avior o t|c i|artouu govcruucut. Aud t|c trut| o t|c uattcr is t|at
t|crc's a |olc |uuc| o t|cu availa|lc, |ic| t|c Sccurity Couucil aud ot|crs
|avc tal|cd a|out otcu cuoug|, |ut just |avcu't utilizcd. 1|cy arc variatious
ou t|c sauctious t|cuc. It's uot just iudividually targctcd sauctious agaiust t|c
|cy playcrs - iuaucial aud travcl aud so ou - |ut rcally ccctivc sauctious

3 1he Coureheusive ieace Agreeueut that euJeJ the civil ar beteeu the uorth auJ south as sigueJ iu 200.
`~ `
agaiust coupauics doiug |usiucss it| Sudaucsc coupauics: t|iugs |aviug to
do it| t|c lo o oil uuds aud actual supply o oil os|orc, aud |at you
cau do t|roug| t|c |au|iug systcu.
So Darur is a casc o t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct, pro|a|ly uot a casc rcquiriug
t|c uost cxtrcuc oru o l2i rcactiou, i.c., uilitary iutcrvcutiou, |ut surc
as |cll ouc or applyiug ot|cr orus o prcssurc to c|augc t|c |alaucc o
calculatious. Aud t|crc'll |c uauy, uauy situatious li|c t|at |crc you just |avc
to ua|c souc rat|cr couplcx calculatious. Luortuuatcly, au aul lot o t|c
Savc Darur Coalitiou activity aud t|c gcucral caupaiguiug aud cousciousucss-
raisiug |crc iu t|c L.S. |as rcally rat|cr lcapt ovcr all t|c couplcxitics o
t|c situatiou. All t|osc uulti-uilliou dollar pagcs o ads iu t|c papcrs it|
t|cir ouc liuc, Savc Darur" or Do Souct|iug"- t|cy |avcu't rcally |ccu
rcspousivc to t|c rcalitics o t|c situatiou.
1|c ot|cr t|iug a|out Darur is t|at it is a classic cxauplc o t|c g" ord
- gcuocidc - |ciug couutcrproductivc, |ccausc t|c trut| o t|c
uattcr is t|at t|crc as ucvcr rcally vcry good cvidcucc t|at all t|c
ucccssary clcucuts o csta|lis|iug gcuocidc, particularly iu tcrus o t|c
ucccssary |iuds o iutcut to dcstroy iu |olc or part a particular group
ou t|c |asis o ct|uicity, uatiouality aud so ou, crc iu act satisicd.


Nc tlc .cscot aa:o:st.at:co ... .slca :otc s:o tlc ' c.a
c., ca.l, co, lt tlat lca tc alscltcl, oc a:jjc.coccs :o lcla:c.
tlao :j tlc, laa oct sca tlc c.a. Aoa tlc t.cllc as, l,
la:o sca :t, tlc, ca tlc aotc.

Vit| lauda, cvcry|ody as rus|iug arouud iu t|c Luitcd Statcs govcruucut
dcspcratcly auxious to avoid t|c g" ord |ccausc t|at ould crcatc souc scusc
o o|ligatiou to act. So, t|at is |at all t|c Cliutou pcoplc arc uo sayiug:
c didu't do it |ccausc i c ac|uolcdgcd it as gcuocidc, c ould |avc
|ad to act uudcr t|c Gcuocidc Couvcutiou, aud c didu't rcally t|iu| t|at as
politically sustaiua|lc. io, t|c prcscut aduiuistratiou - Coliu iocll aud t|c
rcst o t|cu - rus|cd iuto usiug t|c g" ord vcry carly ou, |ut t|at lcd to
a|solutcly uo dicrcuccs iu |c|avior t|au i t|cy |ad uot uscd t|c ord.
Aud t|c trou|lc as, |y |aviug uscd it, t|cy uppcd t|c autc. A L.i. couuissiou
cut iu t|crc aud did its ou iuvcstigatiou o |at as goiug ou. It dccidcd
t|crc crc all sorts o vcry ugly criucs agaiust |uuauity aud ot|cr ocuscs
agaiust iutcruatioual la |ciug couuittcd, |ut t|cy couldu't iu all |oucsty
iud t|at it as gcuocidc. Aud t|at t|cu |ccauc, o coursc, a |ugc propagauda
triuup| or i|artouu, cua|liug t|c rcgiuc to say, Vc'vc |ccu clcarcd." 1|cy
|adu't |ccu clcarcd at all, |ut t|cy crc a|lc to say, V|o. Ls. Gcuocidc.
io." 1|crc's a rcal dousidc ris| iu gcttiug ovcr-cxu|craut a|out souc o t|c
caupaigu stratcgics ou t|csc t|iugs. Au aul lot o t|is |usiucss is caviug
your ay t|roug| vcry, vcry couplcx t|iugs iu ordcr uot to do uorc |aru t|au
good aloug t|c ay.
Q: My questiou is about the iufrastructure of the iuteruatioual couuuuity.
If you take a class over at the la school, they'll tell you there's uo really
legitiuately recoguizeJ iuteruatioual la that is aJhereJ to locally. So, uy
questiou is, frou your ersective, Jo you feel like you have the roer
iufrastructure uecessary to accoulish the thiugs that you aut to: Is the
ICC [Iuteruatioual Criuiual Court able to Jo hat it ueeJs to Jo, auJ Jo
you have the tools uecessary to euact the chauge you're hoiug to:
GL: Vcll, iutcruatioual la is a vcry straugc |cast, it| uo ucc|auisus to
cuorcc it aud uuccrtaiu couuitucut aud uuccrtaiu coutcut vcry otcu. V|cu
part o t|c rcccivcd |ody o la is |at acadcuics ritc a|out t|c la, t|at's
a |it trou|liug. It's a coutiuuiug zouc o uuccrtaiuty, |ut it's a|solutcly
iudispcusa|lc t|at t|crc |c, gcucrally, rulc-|ascd ordcr. Ccrtaiuly souc o t|c
rulcs arc vcry, vcry clcar iudccd. Iu t|c L.i. C|artcr aud t|c Sccurity Couucil,
t|c applicatiou o t|c usc o orcc aud t|c iua|ility to |c actiug lcgally, |ocvcr
!0 !1
uorally you uig|t t|iu| you'rc actiug, dcpcud ou it |ciug a casc o propcr scl-
dccusc or o |ciug aut|orizcd |y t|c Sccurity Couucil: i it is ucit|cr o t|osc
t|iugs, you cau't do it. 1|is is a vcry iuportaut t|iug to |aug outo |cu all
clsc is s|itiug sauds.
ut |it |y |it |y |it, t|c iustitutioual raucor| is couiug togct|cr; iu particular
iu t|c lcgal arca, it is couiug togct|cr. 1|c Iutcruatioual Court o usticc iu 1|c
iaguc, t|c ouc |o docs t|c |ig stu |ctccu statcs aud so ou, is struggliug
|ccausc so uauy couutrics dccliuc to ac|uolcdgc jurisdictiou, aud cvcu |cu it
|as t|c jurisdictiou, it cau't rcally cuorcc its dictatcs. ut t|c iutcrcstiug arca is
t|c dcvclopucut o iutcruatioual criuiual la, |ic| |as |ccu |appcuiug apacc
iu t|c scusc o uuivcrsal jurisdictiou, |ic| docsu't dcpcud ou auy particular
court or lcgislatiou, |ut argua|ly is iu|crcutly cxcrcisa|lc |y statcs.
Au cxauplc is clgiuu, |crc I livc, |crc a supcrior court tricd a group o
laudau uuus a littlc |ilc ago - t|cy |ad activcly participatcd iu |crdiug
pcoplc iuto a c|urc|, loc|iug t|c doors to cua|lc souc|ody clsc to t|ro iu
t|c grcuadcs t|at cauc iu atcrards. 1|cy crc |olly couplicit iu souc vcry
ugly parts o t|c gcuocidc. 1|cy |ad lcd to clgiuu, |ut t|at didu't iuuuuizc
t|cu |ccausc pcoplc t|crc said, c'rc so |orriicd |y t|is t|at c'rc actually
goiug to usc t|c rcsourccs o t|c statc to prosccutc you. 1|c cxcrcisc it|
Augusto iiuoc|ct, iuvolviug courts iu ritaiu aud Spaiu, is auot|cr cxauplc
o |o t|iugs arc c|augiug - it| t|c li|cs o Dr.icury iissiugcr aud Mr.
Douald luuscld, |ciug, I suspcct, uorc t|au a littlc cdgy a|out it.
ut t|c rcal actiou is occurriug iu t|c coutcxt o t|c uc Iutcruatioual Criuiual
Court, |ic| is |aviug a lot o tcct|iug trou|lcs as you'd cxpcct, |ccausc it's uot
allocd to rcac| |ac| iuto t|c past. Its jurisdictiou ouly starts rou 2002 iu
tcrus o t|c cascs it cau ta|c. Aud it |as couroutcd vcry carly ou t|c dilcuua
o |aviug to dcal it| iupuuity cascs aud c|argiug pcoplc or ar criucs
aud criucs agaiust |uuauity, iu situatious o ougoiug coulict |crc attcutiou
cau vcry otcu arisc |ctccu t|c dcuauds o pcacc ou t|c ouc |aud aud t|c
dcuauds o justicc ou t|c ot|cr. laycrs aud |uuau rig|ts pcoplc tcud to loo|
at it purcly iu t|c dcuauds o justicc - striugiug pcoplc up |y piauo irc |o
t|oroug|ly dcscrvc it - aud pay uo attcutiou to t|c arguucut t|at t|is is goiug
to iu|i|it t|c ccctivc couclusiou o a pcacc ucgotiatiou |y t|osc pcoplc |o
dou't aut to |c so struug up.
Ou t|c ot|cr |aud, orgauizatious li|c ours ully ac|uolcdgc t|c |uuau rig|ts
iupcrativc, dcspcratcly aut t|c criuiual court to csta|lis| a trac| rccord o
couvictious t|at ill |c a dctcrrcut to pcoplc doiug t|is stu iu t|c uturc,
|ut uouct|clcss |avc to dcal - as I do or cxauplc it| t|c Lgauda situatiou
iuvolviug oscp| iouy, aud uorc particularly t|c currcut situatiou iu Darur
- |crc t|crc's a |ugc tcusiou |ctccu ouc's iustiucts to pursuc justicc, |ut at
t|c sauc tiuc |c illiug aud a|lc to givc auucsty iu t|c iutcrcsts o gcttiug a
pcacc scttlcucut.
So, all t|csc issucs arc ucvcr goiug to |c casily rcsolvcd cvcu i you crcatc t|c
iurastructurc, cvcu i you gct uuivcrsal |uy iu, aud cvcu i you gct a illiugucss
to cuorcc t|c outcoucs o t|csc tri|uual dccisious. You'rc still goiug to |avc
couccptual dilcuuas aud policy dilcuuas iu t|c ay you apply t|c la. ut
it is vcry iuportaut t|at c do coutiuuc to |uild aud cousolidatc a sct o
coupclliug iutcruatioual uorus.
1|c rcspousi|ility to protcct is a classic cxauplc o souct|iug |ic| is
ccrtaiuly uot a rulc, at t|c uoucut, o custouary iutcruatioual la, |ut it |as
t|c status o, pro|a|ly uo, au iutcruatioual uoru - |aviug at lcast t|at dcgrcc
o cudorscucut aud rccoguitiou aud acccptaucc. Aud uay|c it's capa|lc o
cvolviug iuto, it| practicc aud it| acccptaucc ovcr tiuc, a rulc o custouary
iutcruatioual la, |ic| |asically says t|at t|ou s|alt uot c|op up your ou
pcoplc or allo ot|crs to do so, aud i you do, t|ou s|alt |c prcparcd to acccpt,
it|out ussiug, your couutry |ciug iutcrvcucd iu |y ot|crs. 1|at's puttiug it
rat|cr crudcly, |ut t|at's t|c csscucc o it.
!2 !`
So, I t|iu| t|c tools arc t|crc iu tcrus o t|c |asic grouud rulcs o iutcruatioual
la. It's vcry iuportaut t|at t|cy |c o|scrvcd |y t|osc couutrics t|at arc vcry
iulucutial. Ouc o t|c alaruiug t|iugs |as |ccu, rau|ly, L.S. cxccptioualisu
iu t|c last six or scvcu ycars, t|c dcspcratc uu|appiucss a|out cousolidatiug
iutcruatioual uorus aud rulcs aud |uyiug iuto t|cu. ut cvcryt|iug |as its
scasou aud t|c |ccl is uo turuiug: t|crc's |ccu a |ugc |ac|las| agaiust t|at
uot ouly iutcruatioually, |ut also o|viously doucstically, so it| a |it o luc|
c'll |c |ac| ou souc |iud o trac| iu t|c ucar uturc.
O coursc, iu tryiug to prcvcut aud rcsolvc coulict, you dou't dcpcud just ou
t|at structurc o uorus aud rulcs aud iustitutious. A |cll o a lot o it is just
ucgotiatiou aud t|c cxcrcisc o lcvcragc aud prcssurc o au cxtracurricular |iud,
or|iug ou |at tools aud |at rcsourccs aud |at |iuds o iulucucc you cau
pcrsuadc pcoplc to |riug to |car. 1|crc's plcuty you cau do outsidc t|c raucor|
o t|at sct o las aud iustitutious, aud pro|a|ly t|at ill go ou |ciug t|c casc,
|ccausc iutcruatioual la is ucvcr goiug to |c as couprc|cusivc a raucor| aud
guidc, a coupclliug sct o rulcs or actiou, as is t|c casc it| la doucstically. It's
just a dicrcut uuivcrsc. ut it all coucs togct|cr aud you ccrtaiuly uccd to |uo,
i you'rc goiug to gct iuto t|c |usiucss o opcratiug iu t|is uuivcrsc procssioually,
|at is aud is uot possi|lc it|iu t|at iutcruatioual raucor|.
Q: Iu your 199 Ic.c:o Icl:c, article ou cooerative security auJ iutrastate
couflict, you talkeJ about roosiug iustitutioual chauges at the UuiteJ
Natious as art of soue of your aJvice. AuJ I'u just ouJeriug, baseJ
ou your exerieuce ith AiLC [Asia-iacific Lcououic Cooeratiou auJ
ASLAN [Associatiou of Southeast Asiau Natious Regioual ioruu, hat
oulJ you say are soue of the uajor iusights you've fouuJ iu terus of
iustitutioual chauges, both iu terus of obstacles auJ facilitators: I'u uostly
iuteresteJ iu oueu's huuau rights auJ ho the iustitutious iuflueuce the
evolutiou of oueu's huuau rights.
GL: Vcll, it's a vcry rustratiug |usiucss |ut souc|ody's got to do it. You'vc
got to |ccp or|iug aay aud uaggiug aay at t|is. I t|iu| souc o t|c
uorc ccctivc iustitutioual c|augcs |avc |ccu t|c crcatiou o t|csc rcgioual
orgauizatious arouud t|c placc. I ouldu't rcally rau| AiLC aud t|c ASLAi
lcgioual loruu |ig| auoug t|c succcss storics as couparcd it| t|c origiual
aspiratious; t|cy |avcu't rcally douc vcry uuc|. ut t|c Aricau Luiou, I t|iu|,
is ou t|c ay to |ccouiug a rcasoua|lc succcss story. Ccrtaiuly t|crc as a
|ugc c|augc iu t|c culturc o t|c rcgioual orgauizatiou |cu it uovcd rou
|ciug t|c OAL Orgauizatiou o Aricau Luity to t|c Aricau Luiou. 1|c
doctriuc is rcally tcrriic; it's just t|at t|crc's a |ugc gap |ctccu t|c doctriuc
aud t|c capacity to actually apply it aud practicc it: politics is politics aud it's
alays |ard.
ut t|at is goiug to |c a lot o t|c uturc: gcttiug rcgioual orgauizatious to
do uorc o t|c gruut or| iu t|is |olc raugc o pcacc aud sccurity issucs,
iucludiug prcvcutivc as cll as rcactivc ucasurcs - c'rc uot tal|iug just a|out
uilitary rcspouscs |crc. 1|c cvolutiou aud dcvclopucut o t|c L.L., as uot just
au ccououic orgauizatiou |ut as, sloly, sloly, sloly, a dccusc aud sccurity
orgauizatiou a|lc to actually scud its ou rcsourccs aud to gct its act togct|cr,
is goiug to |c iuportaut ovcr t|c loug |aul. lcpcat: You just |avc to |ccp
or|iug aay at t|osc t|iugs.
Orgauizatious li|c LiIlLM Luitcd iatious Dcvclopucut luud or Voucu
aud so ou, t|cy'rc vcry uuc| part o t|c systcu, aud |o ccctivc t|cy arc
dcpcuds vcry uuc| ou |o's lcadiug t|cu at auy givcu tiuc, I |avc to say.
You cau crcatc iustitutious uutil t|c cos couc |ouc aud t|iu| you'vc douc
souct|iug uscul a|out uo|iliziug ccctivc rcsourccs, |ut t|cy |avc to |c lcd
|y t|c rig|t pcoplc aud stacd |y t|c rig|t pcoplc aud |avc t|c rig|t cucrgy
coutcut a|out t|cu.
lor cxauplc, t|c Oicc o t|c iig| Couuissioucr or iuuau lig|ts, a positiou
|ic| |as |ad a uixcd rccord, |ut |ic| uo uudcr louisc Ar|our, is |ciug |uilt
iuto a rcally ccctivc iustitutiou - a ar uorc rclcvaut aud uscul iustitutiou iu act
t|au t|c ouc t|at all t|c dc|atc as a|out, t|c uc iuuau lig|ts Couucil. Lvcu
it| its uc ucu|crs|ip aud proccsscs, it coucs across as t|c sauc old collcctiou
o pcoplc doiug totally usclcss t|iugs or cudlcss auouuts o tiuc iu Gcucva, vcry
uuc| |y coutrast it| t|c couuissioucr's oicc.
!! !
Vit|iu t|c L.i. systcu itscl iu ic Yor|, ouc o t|c uc iustitutious or |ic|
I as arguiug uost ovcr t|c last c ycars as t|c crcatiou o a icacc|uildiug
Couuissiou to try aud ill t|c gap t|at cxistcd iu t|is post-coulict stagc. Vc
|avc traditioually |ad a s|ccd |cll curvc it| a |ugc auouut o attcutiou aud
rcsourccs goiug iuto coulict situatious iu t|c irst c uout|s atcr ccascircs
or pcacc agrccucuts crc cutcrcd iuto, aud t|cu a rapid alliug aay o iutcrcsts
aud couuitucut t|crcatcr. V|at sccucd to uc as rcally uccdcd as au
ccctivc iustitutioual structurc |ic| ould |riug togct|cr all t|c |cy |ilatcral
aud uultilatcral iustitutioual playcrs to just cusurc coutiuuity, t|at sustaiua|ility
o couuitucut. io, t|at idca is liupiug toard ccctivc iuplcucutatiou at
t|c uoucut. 1|c icacc|uildiug Couuissiou cxists; it's uorc a tal|iug t|iug
t|au au actiou t|iug, |ut it's potcutially quitc iuportaut. Iu t|c coutcxt o
t|c |ugc raugc o t|iugs t|at |avc to |c douc iu post-coulict cuvirouucuts,
iucludiug t|c arca iu |ic| you'rc iutcrcstcd, it's dcspcratcly ucccssary to |avc a
propcr iustitutioual raucor| to cusurc t|at t|iugs |appcu.

1lc l:cst :ost:tt:coal cst:co cj all aoa tlc la.acst
ot tc c.acl :s tlc cccs:t:co cj tlc \cc.:t, Ccoc:l ...

1|c |iggcst iustitutioual qucstiou o all aud t|c |ardcst uut to crac| is t|c
coupositiou o t|c Sccurity Couucil, |ccausc 60 ycars atcr t|c crcatiou o
t|c Luitcd iatious, it's uorc aud uorc o|vious t|at t|c coupositiou o t|c
Sccurity Couucil, t|c ivc pcruaucut ucu|crs i-S, is couplctcly out o syuc
it| coutcuporary pocr rcalitics. 1|c dcvclopiug couutrics iu Arica aud
latiu Aucrica aud clsc|crc arc vcry quic| to poiut t|at out. Lvcu t|oug|
t|crc's a rcally ugly couplaccucy ou t|c part o t|c i-S - t|at t|cy cau starc
t|is dou aud go ou cxcrcisiug t|is dicrcutial aut|ority iu pcrpctuity - t|c
trut| o t|c uattcr is t|at alt|oug| it ou't |appcu vcry quic|ly, t|crc's rcally
goiug to |c a coutiuuiug crosiou o crcdi|ility, o rcspcct or t|c iustitutiou,
uulcss c ua|c t|at c|augc.
ut t|c politics o t|at, aud I |uo it |ccausc I'vc |ccu iuvolvcd iu t|c issuc or
t|c last c ycars, arc rcally just uig|tuaris|ly diicult, aud it's goiug to |c vcry
|ard. I t|iu| iustitutioual c|augc iu structurcs is iuportaut, |ut so, too, arc t|c
ays iustitutious actually opcratc iu practicc. You |avc to rcally |c prcparcd to
or| arouud t|cu to gct t|iugs douc, as it| |at I as sayiug |corc a|out
iutcruatioual la, |ccausc you cau't just assuuc t|at you'll |avc t|c iustruucuts
at |aud to gct t|iugs douc t|roug| t|c iustitutioual structurcs at |aud.
! !
oucu aud c|ildrcu, as t|cir victius. Aud I au surc |is couucuts touig|t ill
cucouragc uc to t|iu| uorc a|out ot|cr issucs aud |opcully cucouragc you to
t|iu| as cll, |ut uorc iuportautly, to act ou t|cu iu our cvcryday livcs.
io, I au plcascd to clcouc ulic Sullivau, provost aud vicc prcsidcut o t|c
uuivcrsity, to iutroducc touig|t's spca|cr. 1|au| you.
VLLCOML Y DIANA KU1LOV, iROGRAM OiiICLR A1
1HL ]OAN . KROC INS1I1U1L iOR iLACL s ]US1ICL
Good cvcuiug. Vclcouc to t|c oau . iroc Iustitutc or icacc c usticc at t|c
Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo. I au Diaua iutlo, t|c prograu oiccr or t|c oau .
iroc Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics. I au vcry plcascd to |c staudiug iu touig|t or
our cxccutivc dircctor, oycc icu, |o is iu Vas|iugtou ou sa||atical at t|c L.S.
Iustitutc o icacc, aud also or Dcc A|cr, our iutcriu dircctor, |o is ou a |ric
trip to icpal, or|iug it| t|c coustitucucics or pcacc t|crc, or|iug |opcully
toard a pcaccul clcctiou.
1ouig|t is t|c last o t|c t|rcc Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics cvcuts t|is ycar. Vc
|avc |ccu vcry t|au|ul to |avc all iutcruatioual spca|crs t|is ycar. As part o t|c
uuivcrsity's drivc toard iutcruatioualizatiou aud produciug glo|ally coupctcut
studcuts, c ccl it is vcry iuportaut to |riug au iutcruatioual pcrspcctivc to t|c
issucs t|at arc aciug us iu today's orld. Vc |ad io|cl icacc laurcatc S|iriu L|adi
iu t|c all or a lccturc at t|c cuuy Craig iaviliou it| 1,800 pcoplc, iucludiug
uost o t|c studcuts at t|c uuivcrsity t|roug| t|c provost's cucouragcucut. Vc
|ad a oudcrul paucl it| cxpcrts rou Asia, latiu Aucrica aud Arica ou
gcudcr-iuclusivc pcacc|uildiug, rig|t |corc t|c Voucu icaccMa|crs Coucrcucc
iu t|c all. Aud t|cu touig|t, our spca|cr is visitiug us rou Australia, |ut |c is
ccrtaiuly a glo|al citizcu. 1|csc distiuguis|cd spca|crs |clp us to scc t|c orld
iu ays t|at c uay uot i c crc ouly loo|iug at it t|roug| our ou cycs or
t|roug| t|c L.S. ucdia. Aud |opcully, t|cy gct us to pus| oursclvcs to ua|c t|c
c|augcs iu t|c orld t|at c aut to scc.
Iu au c-uail cxc|augc it| our spca|cr a|out t|c titlc or touig|t's lccturc, I as|cd
a|out usiug t|c ord gcuocidc" iustcad o uass atrocitics." Aud |c told uc
|c clt t|at t|c ord |ad |ccouc vcry uarroly dciucd iu lcgal tcrus aud t|at
|c rcally autcd to loo| uorc |roadly at t|c |iuds o uass atrocitics t|at arc
|appcuiug all ovcr t|c orld t|at uay uot it t|at dciuitiou. iis t|oug|ts |avc
staycd it| uc as I t|iu| a|out |o cvcu lo-lcvcl coulicts cau sto|c t|c cyclcs
o violcucc t|at lcad to uass atrocitics, |ic| usually lcavc civiliaus, cspccially
L..s .. s:.: .:| L.... I:|., ..o .;;..: .: :|: IIj.
!~ !
U`L J..: I:s.:.: .. I..s: j|.: `||... .:| c.::| L..s
IN1RODUC1ION Y ]ULIL SULLIVAN, VICL iRLSIDLN1
AND iROVOS1 Oi 1HL UNIVLRSI1Y Oi SAN DILGO
Good cvcuiug. It is uy plcasurc to clcouc you to t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo aud
also to iutroducc our distiuguis|cd spca|cr t|is cvcuiug. Garct| Lvaus, siucc auuary
2000, |as |ccu t|c prcsidcut o t|c russcls-|ascd Iutcruatioual Crisis Group. 1|c
Iutcruatioual Crisis Group is au iudcpcudcut, uouproit iGO uougovcruucutal
orgauizatiou it| souc 130 sta ucu|crs locatcd ou ivc coutiucuts. 1|cy or|
orldidc t|roug| icld-|ascd aualysis aud |ig|-lcvcl advocacy to prcvcut aud
rcsolvc dcadly coulict. Garct|, |corc |c |ccauc t|c lcadcr o t|c Iutcruatioual
Crisis Group iu 2000, |ad a vcry auspicious, ovcr to-dccadc carccr iu Australiau
politics. Most o us |uo |is uauc as t|c orcigu uiuistcr o Australia. Duriug
|is tiuc t|crc |c |ad scvcral accouplis|ucuts, |ut scvcral t|at c ould pro|a|ly
|c uost auiliar it| arc |is or| it| t|c L.i. pcacc plau or Cau|odia, |is
siguiicaut or| ou t|c C|cuical Vcapous Couvcutiou, aud t|c uc Asia iaciic
rcgioual ccououic aud sccurity arc|itccturc.
Iu additiou to |ciug a politiciau aud a orld lcadcr iu arcas suc| as coulict
rcsolutiou, Garct| |as uaiutaiucd a vcry activc acadcuic aud sc|olarly |ac|grouud.
ic is t|c aut|or o uuucrous |oo|s, c|aptcrs aud jourual articlcs iu t|c arcas o
orcigu rclatious, |uuau rig|ts aud lcgal aud coustitutioual rcoru. ic uaiutaius
couucctious it| scvcral acadcuic iustitutious aud jouruals. At Yalc Luivcrsity |c
is a ucu|cr o t|c Iutcruatioual Advisory oard o L.i. Studics. At Stauord
Luivcrsity |c is a ucu|cr o t|c Advisory Couucil at t|c Iustitutc or Iutcruatioual
Studics - t|is is giviug uc souc idcas, |y t|c ay, Garct| - aud |c scrvcs ou t|c
Lditorial Advisory oard o t|c Cau|ridgc lcvic o Iutcruatioual Aairs. Garct|
also is a vcry valucd lcadcr iu iuput aud au advisor to siguiicaut policyua|crs. ic
is a ucu|cr o t|c L.i. Sccrctary-Gcucral's Advisory Couuittcc ou Gcuocidc
ircvcutiou - t|csc arc uuucrous, |ut vcry iuprcssivc. ic is c|air o t|c Vorld
Lcououic loruu's Glo|al Govcruaucc Iuitiativc, icacc aud Sccurity Lxpcrt Group.
ic is cllo o t|c lorcigu iolicy Associatiou, ucu|cr o t|c Iutcruatioual Couucil
o t|c Asia Socicty aud a ucu|cr o t|c Iutcruatioual Advisory oard o t|c ic
Glo|al Attitudcs Survcy.
0
I.ccot:o Hass At.cc:t:cs.
Hal:o 'Ncc. Aa:o a kcal:t,

1lc Hcoc.allc Ca.ctl Iaos
Clcarly |is isdou aud cxpcricucc |as |ccu siguiicaut aud valua|lc to pcoplc all
arouud t|c orld, aud it is rcally our |ouor to clcouc |iu to t|c Luivcrsity o
Sau Dicgo t|is cvcuiug. ilcasc joiu uc iu clcouiug |iu.
2 `
1|au|s vcry uuc|, ulic, aud good cvcuiug, ladics aud gcutlcucu. 1|au|s or
t|at vcry gcucrous iutroductiou. It rcally is au cuoruous plcasurc aud a privilcgc
or uc to |avc |ccu iuvitcd to participatc iu t|is lccturc scrics, uot lcast siucc I
iud uyscl olloiug iu t|c ootstcps o pcoplc o suc| cxtraordiuary cali|cr
aud glo|al rcputatiou as lic|ard Goldstouc, Mary lo|iusou, iauau As|rai,
lloyd Axort|y aud S|iriu L|adi. Atcr just a c s|ort ycars o cxistcucc, t|c
oau . iroc Iustitutc or icacc c usticc rcally is uo ou t|c uap, uot ouly or
its autastic |uildiug aud acilitics - |cttcr t|au I'vc sccu just a|out auy|crc iu
t|c orld - |ut as a ccutcr o cxccllcucc or policy-oricutcd dc|atc, dialoguc,
tcac|iug, outrcac| aud practical policy actiou iu t|c causc o glo|al pcacc.
Aud t|at is a tri|utc to t|c quality o t|c iustitutc's sta, |o ruu t|csc outstaudiug
prograus so cll aud |o - particularly Diaua iutlo, |o you |card rou at
t|c |cgiuuiug, aud Lri|a lopcz - |avc loo|cd atcr uc so aduira|ly duriug uy
visit |crc. It's a tri|utc also I t|iu| to t|c |rcadt| o visiou o t|c Luivcrsity o
Sau Dicgo aduiuistratiou, |ic| |as uudcrstood vcry clcarly - iu a ay t|at uauy
ot|crs uay uot |avc - |o au iustitutc li|c t|is, aud a Sc|ool o icacc Studics o
t|c |iud uo |ciug put iu placc, cau add rcal lustcr to a uuivcrsity's uatioual aud
iutcruatioual rcputatiou aud staturc. Aud a|ovc all, it's a tri|utc to oau . iroc
|crscl, |osc cxtraordiuary gcucrosity uadc t|c |olc t|iug possi|lc.
It is ouc o uy a|idiug sorros t|at I didu't ucct oau iroc |corc s|c dicd
our ycars ago. Aud t|at's uot just |ccausc soucouc prcparcd to spcud duriug |cr
lictiuc aud |cyoud souct|iug li|c $100 uilliou ou supportiug pcacc prograus
is t|c |iud o pcrsou prcsidcuts o orgauizatious li|c uiuc drcau o gcttiug to
|uo. It's |ccausc s|c as o|viously suc| a oudcrul, largcr t|au lic, c|aractcr.
Your ouudiug dircctor, oycc icu, told uc iu a ucssagc t|c ot|cr day t|at |ad
Saiut oau, as s|c dcscri|cd |cr, still |ccu it| us, s|c ould |avc |ccu sittiug
|crc iu t|c rout ro, a uodcl o pauac|c aud clcgaucc, uay|c uot a|lc to ollo
t|c lccturc vcry closcly |ccausc s|c |ccauc vcry |ard o |cariug iu |cr last ycars,
|ut cvcry uo aud agaiu iu|iug |roadly at t|c spca|cr. O all t|c distractious
I'vc cat|crcd ovcr t|c ycars, I t|iu| t|at ould pro|a|ly |avc |ccu t|c uost
discouccrtiug, |uoiug t|at to do t|c politc t|iug aud iu| rig|t |ac| - as I
ccrtaiuly ould |avc |ccu uiudcd to do - ould |avc t|c rcst o t|c audicucc
t|iu|iug I |ad lost uy uar|lcs.
1|c topic a|out |ic| I |avc |ccu as|cd to tal| to you t|is cvcuiug is ouc ou |ic| I
souctiucs t|iu| c |avc all lost our uar|lcs, or at lcast - |at uay or uay uot |c
t|c sauc t|iug - our scusc o couuou |uuauity aud collcctivc uorality.

Hc ao, c.c t:cs :ll c lccl lacl coac.:o, :tl
a.,:o ac.ccs cj :occ.clcos:co, lc..c., aoc. aoa
slac, lc ccla c lac lct :t all laco

icvcr agaiu" c said atcr t|c iolocaust. Aud atcr t|c Cau|odiau gcuocidc iu t|c
1970s. Aud t|cu agaiu atcr t|c laudau gcuocidc iu 1994. Aud t|cu just a ycar latcr
atcr t|c Src|rcuica uassacrc iu osuia. Aud uo c'rc as|iug oursclvcs yct agaiu, iu
t|c acc o uorc uass |illiug aud dyiug iu Darur, |ct|cr c rcally arc cvcr goiug to
|c capa|lc, as au iutcruatioual couuuuity, o stoppiug uatiou-statcs uurdcriug t|cir
ou pcoplc, or alloiug t|cu to |c uurdcrcd |y ot|crs it|iu t|cir |ordcrs. Siucc
2003, iu t|is rcgiou o Sudau, uorc t|au 200,000 |avc dicd rou outrig|t violcucc
or ar-rclatcd discasc aud ualuutritiou, cll ovcr 2 uilliou |avc |ccu displaccd,
pcacc|ccpiug corts |avc |ccu uauicstly iuadcquatc, pcacc ucgotiatious |avc gouc
uo|crc, |uuauitariau rclic is altcriug, t|c coulict is spilliug ovcr iuto ucig||oriug
tcrritorics aud couutrics aud t|c ovcrall situatiou rcuaius dcsolatc. io uauy uorc
tiucs ill c loo| |ac| oudcriug, it| varyiug dcgrccs o iucouprc|cusiou, |orror,
augcr aud s|auc, |o could c |avc lct it all |appcu.
1|c trut| o t|c uattcr is t|at it |as ta|cu t|c orld au iusaucly loug tiuc to couc
to tcrus it| t|c idca t|at t|crc is souct|iug uudaucutally aud iutolcra|ly roug
a|out statcs |illiug or orci|ly displaciug largc uuu|crs o t|cir ou citizcus, or
staudiug |y |cu ot|crs do so. lor ccuturics, goiug all t|c ay |ac| to t|c cucrgcucc
o t|c uodcru systcu o sovcrcigu statcs iu t|c 1648 1rcaty o Vcstp|alia, t|c vic
|as prcvailcd t|at, to put it |luutly, sovcrciguty - t|c posscssiou |y a couutry o
t|c rccoguizcd trappiugs o iudcpcudcut statc|ood - is a liccusc to |ill; t|at |at
|appcus it|iu statc |ordcrs, |ocvcr grotcsquc aud uorally iudccusi|lc, is uo|ody
!
rcspcct. ut, uotit|staudiug all t|c gcuocidal |orrors iulictcd duriug t|c Sccoud
Vorld Var, t|cy s|ocd uo particular iutcrcst iu t|c qucstiou o |at coustraiuts
uig|t |c iuposcd ou |o statcs dcalt it| t|cir ou su|jccts.
1|c statc o uiud t|at cvcu uassivc atrocity criucs, li|c t|osc o t|c Cau|odiau
|illiug iclds, crc uot t|c rcst o t|c orld's |usiucss prcvailcd t|roug|out t|c
L.i.'s irst |al-ccutury o cxistcucc. \ictuau's iuvasiou o Cau|odia, |ic|
stoppcd t|c i|ucr lougc iu its trac|s, as uuivcrsally attac|cd, uot applaudcd.
1|c traditioual vic o sovcrciguty, as cua|liug a|solutc coutrol o cvcryt|iug
iutcrual aud dcuaudiug iuuuuity rou cxtcrual iutcrvcutiou, as uuc| rciuorccd
|y t|c largc iucrcasc iu L.i. ucu|crs|ip duriug t|c dccolouizatiou cra. 1|c statcs
t|at joiucd crc all ucly proud o t|cir idcutity, couscious iu uauy cascs o t|cir
ragility aud gcucrally sa t|c uou-iutcrvcutiou uoru as ouc o t|cir c dccuscs
agaiust t|rcats aud prcssurcs rou uorc pocrul iutcruatioual actors scc|iug to
prouotc t|cir ou ccououic aud political iutcrcsts.
iot cvcu t|c siguiug o t|c Gcuocidc Couvcutiou o 1948 uadc uuc| dicrcucc,
dcspitc its apparcutly cxplicit ovcrridc o t|c uou-iutcrvcutiou priuciplc or t|c
uost cxtrcuc o all criucs agaiust |uuauity. 1|c coiuiug o t|c ord gcuocidc" |y
t|c lcgal sc|olar lap|acl lcu|iu iu 1944 - yo|iug togct|cr t|c Grcc| uouu or
auily, tri|c or racc, aud t|c latiu vcr| or uassacrc - as itscl au iuportaut
dcvclopucut iu t|c |istory o idcas, capturiug souc o t|c uoucutous quality o
actious t|at arc aiucd uot just at dcstroyiug iudividuals, |ut |olc uatioual, racial,
ct|uic or rcligious groups - targctiug, as lcu|iu put it, t|c csscutial ouudatious
o t|cir lic as suc| groups.
ut it as aluost as i, it| t|c siguiug o t|c Gcuocidc Couvcutiou, t|c tas| o
addrcssiug uau-uadc atrocitics as sccu as couplctc. It too| t|c uajor pocrs
ycars iu t|c casc o t|c Luitcd Statcs, 40 ycars) to ratiy it. It as rarcly iuvo|cd
atcr it as ratiicd aud |as ucvcr |ccu ccctivcly applicd cit|cr to prcvcut or puuis|
actual atrocitics. 1|c L.S. govcruucut's illiugucss to cu|racc t|c g" ord iu t|c
casc o Darur did uot ua|c a ccut's ort| o dicrcucc |cu it cauc to ta|iug
uorc ro|ust actiou iu rcspousc. Aud t|c loug-aaitcd tcst casc iu t|c Iutcruatioual
clsc's |usiucss. Iu t|c |istory o idcas, t|crc |avc |ccu souc vcry |ad oucs iudccd,
aud c uorc dcstructivc ovcr t|c ccuturics t|au t|is.
Ouc ould |avc t|oug|t iitlcr's iolocaust ould |avc put paid to t|at uotiou
oucc aud or all. Ccrtaiuly uajor gaius crc uadc. Iudividual aud group |uuau
rig|ts crc rccoguizcd iu t|c L.i. C|artcr aud, uorc graudly aud cxplicitly, iu t|c
Luivcrsal Dcclaratiou o iuuau lig|ts. Aud it| t|c dratiug o t|c C|artcr o
t|c iurcu|crg 1ri|uual iu 194S cauc t|c rccoguitiou iu iutcruatioual la o t|c
couccpt o criucs agaiust |uuauity, |ic| could |c couuittcd |y a govcruucut
agaiust its ou pcoplc, aud uot ucccssarily just duriug artiuc.
ut ruuuiug alougsidc all t|is as a coutiuucd, vcry clcar rccoguitiou o t|c
traditioual vic o statc sovcrciguty. 1|c lauguagc o t|c 194S L.i. C|artcr
says iu Articlc 27) t|at uot|iug s|ould aut|orizc iutcrvcutiou iu uattcrs
csscutially it|iu t|c doucstic jurisdictiou o auy statc. 1|c L.i. ouudcrs crc
ovcr|cluiugly prcoccupicd it| t|c pro|lcu o statcs agiug ar agaiust cac|
ot|cr, aud too| uuprcccdcutcd stcps to liuit t|cir rccdou o actiou iu t|at

Court o usticc, osuia agaiust Scr|ia, dccidcd rcccutly t|at Scr|ia |ad uot itscl
couuittcd gcuocidc iu Src|rcuica - t|oug| it did |avc souc culpa|ility or
ailiug to prcvcut it. 1|is s|ocd all too clcarly |at laycrs |avc loug carcd: t|at
t|c lcgal dciuitiou o gcuocidc iu t|c couvcutiou - rcquiriug, iu particular, vcry
particular |iuds o iutcut to |c provcd toard a vcry particular |iud o group
- is just so uarro iu scopc t|at t|crc arc vcry c |iuds o |c|avior |y cit|cr
iudividuals or govcruucuts t|at ill |c caug|t |y it.
Vit| t|c arrival o t|c 1990s aud t|c cud o t|c Cold Var, t|c prcvailiug couplaccut
assuuptious a|out uou-iutcrvcutiou did at last couc uudcr c|allcugc, as ucvcr
|corc. 1|c quiutcsscutial pcacc aud sccurity pro|lcu |ccauc uot iutcrstatc ar
- ar |ctccu statcs - |ut civil ar aud iutcrual violcucc pcrpctratcd ou a uassivc
scalc. Vit| t|c |rca|-up o various Cold Var statc structurcs, uost o|viously iu
Yugoslavia, aud t|c rcuoval o souc supcrpocr coustraiuts, couscicucc-s|oc|iug
situatious rcpcatcdly arosc.
ut old |a|its o uou-iutcrvcutiou dicd vcry |ard. Lvcu |cu situatious cricd
out or souc |iud o rcspousc - aud t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity did rcact
t|roug| t|c Luitcd iatious - it as too otcu crratically, iucouplctcly or
couutcrproductivcly, as iu t|c dc|aclc o Soualia iu 1993, t|c catastrop|c o
lauda iu 1994 aud t|c aluost uu|clicva|lc dcault iu Src|rcuica just a ycar
latcr, iu 199S. 1|cu cauc iosovo iu 1999, |cu t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity
did iu act iutcrvcuc as it pro|a|ly s|ould |avc, |ut did so it|out t|c aut|ority
o t|c Sccurity Couucil iu t|c acc o a t|rcatcucd vcto |y lussia, raisiug auxious
qucstious a|out t|c iutcgrity o t|c |olc iutcruatioual sccurity systcu.
Iu rcspousc to t|csc cucrgiug situatious a pocrul uc idca did cucrgc, aud
douiuatcd iutcruatioual discoursc t|roug| t|c 1990s. 1|is as t|c couccpt,
coiucd |y t|c ouudcr o Mcdiciucs Saus lrouticrc, cruard iouc|ucr, o droit
d'iugcrcucc," t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc," or uorc ully, t|c rig|t o |uuauitariau
iutcrvcutiou." 1|c trou|lc it| t|is lauguagc is t|at, |ilc it as rou uauy
pcrspcctivcs a uo|lc aud ccctivc rallyiug cry, arouud t|c orld it curagcd as uauy
as it iuspircd. 1|roug|out t|c dccadc arguucuts a|out t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc,
uostly rou t|c glo|al uort|, crc uct |y cqually vc|cucut claius, uostly rou
t|c glo|al sout|, a|out t|c priuacy aud coutiuucd rcsouaucc o t|c couccpt o
uatioual sovcrciguty. attlc liucs crc drau, trcuc|cs crc dug aud vcr|al uissilcs
lc. 1|c dc|atc as iutcusc aud vcry |ittcr, aud t|c 1990s iuis|cd it| it uttcrly
uurcsolvcd iu t|c Luitcd iatious or auy|crc clsc.
L.i. Sccrctary-Gcucral ioi Auuau at ouc stagc uadc |is ou cort to rcsolvc t|c
couccptual iupassc at t|c |cart o t|is dc|atc |y arguiug t|at uatioual sovcrciguty
|ad to |c cig|cd aud |alauccd iu t|csc cascs agaiust iudividual sovcrciguty, as
rccoguizcd iu t|c iutcruatioual |uuau rig|ts iustruucuts. ut t|is cll ou dca cars,
|ciug sccu uot so uuc| as rcsolviug t|c dilcuua o iutcrvcutiou, |ut rcstatiug it. Iu
|is rcport to t|c Gcucral Asscu|ly iu 2000, t|c sccrctary-gcucral |roug|t t|c issuc
to a vcry pu|lic |cad, sayiug iu lauguagc t|at as |ot| uoviug aud agitatcd, aud
|ic| rcsouatcs to t|is day: I |uuauitariau iutcrvcutiou is iudccd au uuacccpta|lc
assault ou sovcrciguty, |o s|ould c rcspoud to a lauda, to a Src|rcuica, to gross
aud systcuatic violatious o |uuau rig|ts ... ."
4

1|c tas| o ucctiug t|is c|allcugc cll, iu t|c cvcut, to t|c Iutcruatioual
Couuissiou ou Iutcrvcutiou aud Statc Sovcrciguty, |ic| as spousorcd |y t|c
Cauadiau govcruucut
S
- uorc particularly its ar-sig|tcd, t|cu orcigu uiuistcr,
lloyd Axort|y, ouc o uy prcdcccssors iu t|is distiuguis|cd lccturc scrics. I
|ad t|c privilcgc o co-c|airiug t|c couuissiou it| t|c Algcriau diplouat aud
vctcrau L.i. Arica advisor, Mo|aucd Sa|uouu, aud c |ad a grcat tcau to or|
it| - iucludiug as t|c L.S. rcprcscutativc, lcc iauiltou it|out |ou uo
paucl o t|c grcat aud good ould t|csc days cvcr |c couplctc). Vc prcscutcd our
rcport cutitlcd 1|c lcspousi|ility to irotcct," at t|c cud o 2001.
1|c o|jcctivcs o t|c couuissiou, as c dciucd t|cu to oursclvcs rou t|c
outsct, crc csscutially t|rccold: to producc a guidc to actiou ou rcspouscs |y
t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity to iutcrual, uau-uadc, |uuau-rig|ts violatiug
catastrop|cs, |ic| ould |c iutcllcctually crcdi|lc aud satisyiug, uot proouudly
ocudiug cit|cr t|c laycrs or p|ilosop|crs - cll-rcprcscutcd I scc |crc t|is
cvcuiug; sccoudly, |ic| ould |c politically crcdi|lc cuoug| uot to |c rcjcctcd out

4 See RelateJ Resources.
1he Iuteruatioual Couuissiou ou Iuterveutiou auJ State Sovereiguty is also referreJ to iu the lecture as the CauaJiau Couuissiou.
~
o |aud as a raucor| or actiou |y cit|cr uort| or sout|, |y t|c pcruaucut ivc
ucu|crs o t|c Sccurity Couucil or auy ot|cr uajor iutcruatioual coustitucucy;
aud t|irdly, coupclliug cuoug| iu its |asic ucssagc to |c a|lc iu practicc to actually
uotivatc actiou aud uo|ilizc support |cu a situatiou dcuaudiug suc| a rcspousc
arosc. Iu t|c cvcut, c uadc, I t|iu| it is air to say, our uaiu coutri|utious
to t|c iutcruatioual policy dc|atc |ic| |avc |ccu rcsouatiug cvcr siucc.
1|c irst, aud pcr|aps ultiuatcly politically t|c uost uscul, as to iuvcut a uc
ay o tal|iug a|out |uuauitariau iutcrvcutiou. Vc soug|t to turu t|c |olc
cary dc|atc a|out t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc ou its |cad, aud to rc-c|aractcrizc it uot
as au arguucut a|out t|c rig|t o statcs to do auyt|iug, |ut rat|cr a|out t|cir
rcspousi|ility - ouc, to protcct pcoplc at gravc ris|. 1|c rclcvaut pcrspcctivc, c
argucd, as uot t|at o prospcctivc iutcrvcucrs - t|c |ig guys autiug to t|ro t|cir
cig|t arouud - |ut rat|cr t|osc uccdiug support. 1|c scarc|lig|t as suug |ac|
|crc it s|ould alays |c: ou t|c uccd to protcct couuuuitics rou uass |illiug
aud ct|uic clcausiug, oucu rou systcuatic rapc, c|ildrcu rou starvatiou. 1|c
couuissiou's |opc as - aud so ar, |roadly, our cxpcricucc |as |ccu - t|at usiug
rcspousi|ility to protcct" rat|cr t|au rig|t to iutcrvcuc" lauguagc ould cua|lc
cutrcuc|cd oppoucuts to iud uc grouud ou |ic| to uorc coustructivcly cugagc.

Wc sclt tc t.o tlc lclc ca., aclatc
alct tlc .:lt tc :otc.coc co :ts lcaa ...

Vc vcry uuc| |ad iu uiud t|c pocr o uc idcas, or old idcas ucly
cxprcsscd, to actually c|augc t|c |c|avior o |cy policy actors. Aud a uodcl
c vcry uuc| |ad iu uiud iu t|is rcspcct as t|c ruudtlaud Couuissiou,
|ic| a c ycars carlicr |ad iutroduccd t|c couccpt o sustaiua|lc
dcvclopucut" to |ridgc t|c |ugc gap |ic| t|cu cxistcd |ctccu dcvclopcrs
aud cuvirouucutalists.
6
Vit| a uc script, t|c actors |avc to c|augc t|cir
liucs aud t|iu| arcs| a|out |at t|c rcal issucs iu t|c play actually arc.

... s:o '.cscos:l:l:t, tc .ctcct .atlc. tlao '.:lt tc
:otc.coc laoac ... coallc[s] cot.coclca ccocots tc
j:oa oc .coa co l:cl tc c.c ccost.ct:cl, coac.

1|c sccoud coutri|utiou o t|c couuissiou, liu|cd it| t|c irst aud agaiu
couccptually siguiicaut, as to iusist upou a uc ay o tal|iug a|out sovcrciguty.
Vc argucd, |uildiug ou au carlicr oruulatiou |y lraucis Dcug, t|at its csscucc
s|ould uo |c sccu uot as coutrol," as iu t|c ccuturics-old Vcstp|aliau traditiou,
|ut agaiu, as rcspousi|ility." 1|c startiug poiut is t|at auy statc |as t|c priuary
rcspousi|ility to protcct t|c iudividuals it|iu it. ut t|at is uot t|c iuis|iug poiut.
V|crc t|c statc ails iu t|at rcspousi|ility, t|roug| cit|cr iucapacity or ill ill, a
sccoudary rcspousi|ility to protcct alls ou t|c idcr iutcruatioual couuuuity.
1|at, iu a uuts|cll, is t|c corc o t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct idca, or - iu t|is
agc o acrouyup|ouauia - l2i, as c arc all uo calliug it or s|ort.
1|c t|ird coutri|utiou o t|c couuissiou as to ua|c it clcar t|at t|c rcspousi|ility
to protcct as a|out uuc| uorc t|au iutcrvcutiou, aud iu particular uilitary
iutcrvcutiou. It cxtcuds to a |olc coutiuuuu o o|ligatious: t|c rcspousi|ility to
prcvcut t|csc situatious arisiug - uost o|vious aud iuportaut o all iu au idcal
orld, |ut uost cousistcutly ucglcctcd iu t|c rcal ouc; t|c rcspousi|ility to rcact to
t|cu |cu t|cy did, it| a |olc graduatcd ucuu o rcspouscs, rou t|c pcrsuasivc
to t|c cocrcivc; aud t|c rcspousi|ility to rc|uild atcr auy iutrusivc iutcrvcutiou.
1|c rcuaiuiug coutri|utiou o t|c couuissiou as to couc up it| guidcliucs
or |cu t|c uost cxtrcuc oru o cocrcivc rcactiou, uilitary actiou, ould |c
appropriatc. 1|at's |cu t|c ru||cr rcally |its t|c road i you aut a uorality-
drivcu policy to |avc ta|c-up iu t|c rcal orld - i you aut idcalisu to |c
rcalistic. 1|c irst critcriou as o|viously lcgality, aud |crc c sa our tas| as
uot to try aud iud altcruativcs to t|c clcar lcgal aut|ority o t|c Sccurity Couucil,
|ut rat|cr to ua|c it or| |cttcr, so t|crc as lcss c|aucc o it |ciug |ypasscd.

6 1he ruutlauJ Couuissiou is also kuou as the VorlJ Couuissiou ou Luvirouueut auJ Develoueut, chaireJ by Gro Harleu
ruutlauJ. See RelateJ Resources.
0 1

W:tl a oc sc.:t, tlc actc.s lac tc claoc tlc:.
l:ocs aoa tl:ol aj.csl alct lat tlc .cal
:sscs :o tlc la, actall, a.c.

1|at as ollocd |y ivc critcria o lcgitiuacy, dcsigucd as a sct o |cuc|uar|s
|ic|, |ilc t|cy uig|t uot guarautcc couscusus iu auy particular casc, ould
|opcully ua|c its ac|icvcucut uuc| uorc li|cly. Alt|oug| I |avc to coucss I
didu't quitc |avc iu uiud t|is lccturc at t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo |cu c
cratcd t|cu, t|csc ivc critcria ould |c vcry auiliar to au audicucc o Cat|olic
iutcllcctuals |ccausc t|cy crc uuas|aucdly |ascd ou just ar" priuciplcs. Iu s|ort,
t|c priuciplcs c spcciicd crc: t|c scriousucss o t|c |aru |ciug t|rcatcucd; t|c
uotivatiou or priuary purposc o t|c proposcd uilitary actiou; |ct|cr t|crc crc
rcasoua|ly availa|lc pcaccul altcruativcs; t|c proportiouality o t|c rcspousc; aud
t|c |alaucc o couscqucuccs - |ct|cr uorc good t|au |aru ould |c douc.
It is ouc t|iug to dcvclop a couccpt li|c t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct, |ut quitc
auot|cr to gct auy policyua|cr to ta|c auy uoticc o it. 1|c uost iutcrcstiug
t|iug a|out t|c lcspousi|ility to irotcct" rcport is t|c ay its ccutral t|cuc |as
coutiuucd to gaiu tractiou iutcruatioually, cvcu t|oug| it as aluost suocatcd
at |irt| |y |ciug pu|lis|cd iu Dcccu|cr 2001, iu t|c iuucdiatc atcruat| o
9-11, aud |y t|c uassivc iutcruatioual prcoccupatiou it| tcrrorisu, rat|cr t|au
iutcrual |uuau rig|ts catastrop|cs, |ic| t|cu |cgau.
Iu just ivc s|ort ycars, a rcuar|a|ly |ric tiuc iu t|c |istory o idcas, t|c
rcspousi|ility to protcct couccpt cvolvcd rou a glcau iu au iutcruatioual
couuissiou's cyc to |at uo |as t|c pcdigrcc to |c dcscri|cd as a |roadly
acccptcd iutcruatioual uoru, aud ouc it| t|c potcutial to cvolvc urt|cr iuto a
rulc o custouary iutcruatioual la. Ou auy vic, t|at's au cucouragiug story, aud
c oug|t to |c cucouragcd |y it.
1|c couccpt as irst scriously cu|raccd iu t|c doctriuc o t|c ucly cucrgiug
Aricau Luiou, aud ovcr t|c ucxt to to t|rcc ycars it ou quitc a coustitucucy
auoug acadcuic couucutators aud iutcruatioual laycrs, |ic| is a uot
uuiuportaut coustitucucy, givcu t|at iutcruatioual la is t|c rat|cr odd |cast
t|at it is, capa|lc o cvolviug t|roug| practicc aud couucutary as cll as t|roug|
orual trcaty iustruucuts.
ut t|c |ig stcp orard cauc it| t|c L.i. 60t| auuivcrsary Vorld Suuuit iu
Scptcu|cr 200S, |ic| ollocd a uajor prcparatory cort iuvolviug t|c rcport
o t|c 2004 iig|-lcvcl iaucl ou 1|rcats, C|allcugcs aud C|augc o |ic| I
as, rat|cr couvcuicutly, a ucu|cr), |ic| cd iu turu iuto a uajor rcport |y t|c
sccrctary-gcucral |iuscl. ot| t|csc rcports cup|atically cu|raccd t|c rcspousi|ility
to protcct couccpt, aud t|c suuuit outcouc docuucut, uuauiuously agrccd to |y
t|c uorc t|au 1S0 |cads o statc aud govcruucut prcscut aud ucctiug as t|c L.i.
Gcucral Asscu|ly, uuau|iguously pic|cd up t|c corc rccouucudatious. Its lauguagc,
t|oug| a littlc ordicr aud oollicr t|au it uccdcd to |c, as quitc clcar-cut iu
pic|iug up t|c corc t|cuc o t|c couuissiou rcport. 1|c |cy ords crc t|csc:
Lac| iudividual Statc |as t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct its populatious
rou gcuocidc, ar criucs, ct|uic clcausiug aud criucs agaiust |uuauity.
... Vc acccpt t|at rcspousi|ility aud ill act iu accordaucc it| it. ... 1|c
iutcruatioual couuuuity, t|roug| t|c Luitcd iatious, also |as t|c
rcspousi|ility to |clp to protcct populatious rou gcuocidc, ar criucs,
ct|uic clcausiug aud criucs agaiust |uuauity. Iu t|is coutcxt, c arc
prcparcd to ta|c collcctivc actiou, iu a tiucly aud dccisivc uauucr,
t|roug| t|c Sccurity Couucil, iu accordaucc it| t|c C|artcr, iucludiug
C|aptcr \II
- |ic| is a|out t|c usc o orcc -
... s|ould pcaccul ucaus |c iuadcquatc aud uatioual aut|oritics arc
uauicstly ailiug to protcct t|cir populatious rou gcuocidc, ar
criucs, ct|uic clcausiug aud criucs agaiust |uuauity.
7


7 See RelateJ Resources.
2 `
1|at t|is cudorscucut |appcucd as auyt|iug |ut iucvita|lc. iot uuc| clsc o
auy siguiicaucc as agrccd to |y t|c suuuit, dcspitc all t|c prcparatory |uild up
aud |ig| cxpcctatious. A icrcc rcarguard actiou as oug|t aluost to t|c last |y
a suall group o dcvclopiug couutrics, joiucd |y lussia, |o |asically rcuscd
to couccdc auy |iud o liuitatiou ou t|c ull aud uutrauuclcd cxcrcisc o statc
sovcrciguty, |ocvcr irrcspousi|lc t|at cxcrcisc uig|t |c. V|at carricd t|c day iu
t|c cud as uot so uuc| cousistcut support rou t|c L.L. aud L.S. - support
|ic| atcr t|c iuvasiou o Iraq iu 2003 as uot particularly |clpul, it |as to
|c ac|uolcdgcd, |cu it cauc to ucctiug t|csc auiliar sovcrciguty couccrus.
1|c support t|at uattcrcd rat|cr as pcrsistcut advocacy |y su|-Sa|arau Aricau
couutrics, lcd |y Sout| Arica; a clcar aud |istorically quitc siguiicaut cu|racc o
liuitcd sovcrciguty priuciplcs |y t|c |cy latiu Aucricau couutrics; aud souc vcry
ccctivc last-uiuutc pcrsoual diplouacy it| uajor, avcriug couutry lcadcrs |y
Cauadiau iriuc Miuistcr iaul Martiu.
A urt|cr iuportaut couccptual dcvclopucut |as occurrcd siucc t|c Scptcu|cr
200S suuuit: t|c adoptiou |y t|c Sccurity Couucil iu April last ycar o a t|cuatic
rcsolutiou ou t|c irotcctiou o Civiliaus iu Arucd Coulict, |ic| coutaius iu au
opcrativc paragrap| au cxprcss rcairuatiou o t|c Vorld Suuuit couclusious
rclatiug to t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct. Aud c |avc uo |cguu to scc t|at
rcsolutiou, iu turu, uo |ciug iuvo|cd iu su|scqucut spcciic situatious, as it|
lcsolutiou 1706 o August 2006 ou Darur. A Gcucral Asscu|ly rcsolutiou uay
|c |clpul, as t|c Vorld Suuuit's uuqucstioua|ly as, iu idcutiyiug rclcvaut
priuciplcs, |ut t|c Sccurity Couucil is t|c iustitutiou t|at uattcrs |cu it coucs
to cxccutivc actiou. Aud at lcast a toc|old t|crc |as uo |ccu carvcd.
ut t|is is just a|out |crc t|c good ucs cuds. Vc siuply cauuot |c at all couidcut
t|at t|c orld ill rcspoud quic|ly, ccctivcly aud appropriatcly to uc |uuau
catastrop|cs as t|cy arisc, as t|c currcut casc o Darur is all too uu|appily dcuoustratiug.
1|c rcspousi|ility to protcct |as |ccouc a potcutially pocrul idca, |ut it ill
ouly |c rcally pocrul i it is iuplcucutcd iu practicc. 1|crc is uuc| uuiuis|cd
|usiucss to attcud to, alliug, rou uy pcrspcctivc, iuto our uaiu catcgorics.

1lc .cscos:l:l:t, tc .ctcct las lcccc a ctcot:all, cc.jl :aca,
lt :t :ll col, lc .call, cc.jl :j :t :s :lccotca :o .act:cc.

1|c irst pro|lcu is to |old t|c liuc agaiust |ac|slidiug. Vc cauuot, uuortuuatcly,
assuuc t|at t|c |ridgc|cad ac|icvcd at t|c Vorld Suuuit aud iu su|scqucut
Sccurity Couucil rcsolutious ill ucccssarily |old. Souc ucu|cr statcs, particularly
iu Asia, crc vcry rcluctaut to acccpt t|is part o t|c suuuit outcouc docuucut,
aud coutiuuc to ig|t a rcarguard actiou agaiust it. 1|cy |avc |ccu uuc| aidcd iu
t|is rcspcct |y l2i's alsc ricuds. Occasioual corts |y dccudcrs o t|c 2003
iuvasiou o Iraq, uota|ly t|c Li govcruucut, to paiut it as justiicd |y l2i
priuciplcs as ot|cr dccuscs iu tcrus o t|c posscssiou o capous o uass
dcstructiou or support or iutcruatioual tcrrorisu cruu|lcd aay) |avc uot |ccu
at all aualytically pcrsuasivc. ut t|cy |avc succccdcd aduira|ly iu rciuorciug
t|c arguucuts o l2i oppoucuts t|at auy couccssiou as to t|c liuits o statc
sovcrciguty ould crcatc au cxcusc t|at ould |c cxploitcd all too illiugly |y uco-
colouialists aud uco-iupcrialists |ccu to rcturu to t|cir |ad, old, iutcrvcutiouist
|a|its o dccadcs past.
Ouc sigu o possi|lc diicultics a|cad as t|c rcjcctiou |y t|c Sccurity Couucil iu
auuary t|is ycar - it| vctocs rou C|iua aud lussia cast togct|cr or t|c irst
tiuc siucc 1972), aud Sout| Arica votiug agaiust - o a rcsolutiou coudcuuiug
urua's, or Myauuar's, appalliug |uuau rig|ts rccord. 1|c arguucut o t|c
oppoucuts as t|at t|c govcruucut's |c|avior as uot a t|rcat to iutcruatioual
pcacc, aud t|us outsidc t|c Sccurity Couucil's jurisdictiou. It is ccrtaiuly argua|lc
t|at Myauuar's |uuau rig|ts violatious, |ilc dcplora|lc, |avc uot |ccu o t|c
sauc c|aractcr or scalc o t|osc iu Darur or iosovo or Src|rcuica or lauda
|corc it, aud as suc| do uot squarcly raisc l2i priuciplcs.
!
ut it is distur|iug uouct|clcss to scc prcvailiug a uarro vic o t|c scopc o
t|c Sccurity Couucil's aut|ority uudcr t|c L.i. C|artcr, aud t|c parallcl rcturu to
avor o a |roadcr vic o t|c protcctiou rou iutcruatioual scrutiuy aud ccusurc
coucrrcd |y statc sovcrciguty. As t|c rctircd Arc||is|op o Capc 1ou, Dcsuoud
1utu, put it: I ot|crs |ad uscd t|c arguucuts c arc usiug today |cu c as|cd
t|cu or t|cir support agaiust apart|cid, c uig|t still |avc |ccu uurcc." 1|osc
o us couccrucd to cousolidatc l2i as a uuivcrsally acccptcd iutcruatioual uoru
- aud ouc lcgitiuiziug closc attcutiou |y t|c Sccurity Couucil to t|c |c|avior
toard t|cir ou pcoplc o a uuu|cr o dccply uusavory rcgiucs - ill |avc to
stay ou our tocs or a good |ilc yct.
1|c sccoud |it o uuiuis|cd |usiucss is to adopt guidcliucs or t|c usc o
uilitary orcc. 1|c Cauadiau Couuissiou rccoguizcd t|at t|c issuc o |cu it
as rig|t to ig|t - to usc t|c uost cxtrcuc o t|c optious availa|lc to rcact to au
l2i situatiou - |ad to |c spcciically addrcsscd i t|c idcalisu o our couccpt
o iutcruatioual rcspousi|ility as to |c rcalistically applica|lc iu practicc. Vc
accordiugly idcutiicd, as I |avc alrcady ucutioucd, a sct o prudcutial critcria iu
t|is rcspcct |ic| c argucd s|ould |c adoptcd |y t|c Sccurity Couucil.
1|csc crc, agaiu, t|c scriousucss o t|c |aru |ciug t|rcatcucd, |ic| ould
uccd to iuvolvc largc scalc loss o lic or ct|uic clcausiug to priua acic justiy
souct|iug as cxtrcuc as uilitary actiou; t|c uotivatiou or priuary purposc o
t|c proposcd uilitary actiou |ct|cr it as priuarily to |alt or avcrt t|c t|rcat
iu qucstiou, or |ad souc ot|cr uaiu o|jcctivc); |ct|cr t|crc crc rcasoua|ly
availa|lc pcaccul altcruativcs; t|c proportiouality o t|c rcspousc; aud, uot lcast,
t|c |alaucc o couscqucuccs - |ct|cr ovcrall uorc good t|au |aru ould |c
douc |y a uilitary iuvasiou.
1|csc rccouucudatious crc su|scqucutly cu|raccd |ot| |y t|c |ig|-lcvcl paucl
I rccrrcd to aud |y t|c sccrctary-gcucral iu |is ou rcport to t|c 200S Vorld
Suuuit - |ut uot adoptcd |y it. Aud t|cy rcuaiu iu liu|o. 1|cy crc rcjcctcd,
t|osc critcria, |y t|c L.S. iu particular, |ccausc it didu't aut auy rcstraiuts ou its
uurcstrictcd rccdou o actiou iu situatious. Aud t|cy crc rcjcctcd |y t|c G-77,
t|c dcvclopiug couutrics, ou t|c rat|cr lcss t|au uudcrstauda|lc grouud t|at to
articulatc t|csc critcria as souc|o to cucouragc t|c grcat pocrs to uisusc
t|cu aud to apply uilitary orcc uotit|staudiug. c t|at as it uay, or |atcvcr
rcasou, t|cy crc uot cudorscd.
O coursc, uo critcria o t|c |iud t|c couuissiou argucd or, cvcu i agrccd as
guidcliucs |y t|c Sccurity Couucil, ill cvcr cud arguucut ou |o t|cy s|ould
|c applicd iu particular iustauccs, or cxauplc, Darur rig|t uo, |crc uy ou
orgauizatiou, t|c Iutcruatioual Crisis Group, |as ta|cu t|c vic t|at |cu it coucs
to cocrcivc uilitary iutcrvcutiou, at lcast rig|t uo t|c |alaucc o couscqucuccs
tcst argucs agaiust t|is. It ould vcry disastrously iupact t|c |uuauitariau rclic
cort |ic| is |ccpiug souc 2 uilliou pcoplc alivc, aud also, it ould pro|a|ly
lcad to total |rca|dou o t|c uort|-sout| pcacc agrccucut |ic| is |augiug |y
a t|rcad at t|c uoucut.
Vc'vc argucd t|at a cocrcivc, uilitary iuvasiou-typc rcspousc, cvcu i it could |c
put togct|cr, ould |c iuappropriatc or t|osc rcasous, aud t|at t|c rcal uccd is
or cocrcivc ccououic prcssurc to |c applicd, particularly |y t|c L.S. ut it is
|ard to |clicvc t|csc critcria ould uot |c uorc |clpul t|au t|c prcscut totally
ad |oc systcu iu ocusiug attcutiou ou t|c rclcvaut issucs, rcvcaliug ca|ucsscs iu
arguucut aud gcucrally cucouragiug couscusus.
1|c t|ird |it o uuiuis|cd |usiucss is to |uild availa|lc capacity. I l2i is uot to
rcuaiu uorc t|corctical t|au rcal, c uust souc|o solvc t|c pro|lcu o capacity,
cusuriug t|at t|c rig|t civiliau aud, as ucccssary, uilitary rcsourccs arc alays t|crc
iu t|c rig|t auouuts aud it| t|c appropriatc capa|ility. Aud t|at ucaus |aviug
rcadily availa|lc a sct o rcspouscs t|at arc souc|crc |ctccu, as lcc lciustciu
puts it iu a rcccut Couucil o lorcigu lclatious papcr, t|c star| optious o
'Doiug iot|iug' aud 'Scudiug iu t|c Mariucs'."
8

Vc uccd strougcr carly-aruiug coordiuatiou aud rcspousc uac|iucry at t|c ccutcr
- it| t|c L.i. sccrctary-gcucral |aviug a pcrsou o rcal iutcruatioual staturc,
or|iug ull-tiuc aud it| appropriatc support sta rcportiug to |iu as spccial

8 See RelateJ Resources.

advisor ou t|c prcvcutiou o gcuocidc aud ot|cr uass atrocitics - souct|iug t|c
sccrctary-gcucral is cousidcriug rig|t uo as c spca|. Vc uccd ccctivc diplouatic
capacity rcady aud availa|lc aud propcrly rcsourccd to ucgotiatc aud ucdiatc t|osc
situatious |ic| arc capa|lc o |ciug stoppcd |y ccctivc carly iutcrvcutiou o
t|is |iud. Vc uccd a rcpcrtoirc o carcully t|oug|t t|roug| sauctious ucasurcs,
it| au ccctivc, procssioually rcsourccd ucc|auisu rcady to |c put iu placc
iuucdiatcly to uouitor t|c applicatiou aud ccctivcucss o t|osc sauctious. Vc
uccd a ull raugc o civiliau capa|ilitics, cspccially ccctivc policiug, ou pcruaucut
staud|y it| t|c capacity to |c iuucdiatcly dcploycd.
Aud c do also uccd ccctivc prcparcducss to uouut uilitary opcratious or
civiliau protcctiou purposcs, it| t|c couscut, i at all possi|lc, o t|c govcruucut
iu qucstiou - as as t|c casc iu Last 1iuor, or cxauplc, aud |as |ccu t|c casc
it| t|c liuitcd orccs so ar scut to Darur - |ut iu rcally cxtrcuc cascs, i t|crc
is uo ot|cr ay o protcctiug t|c pcoplc iu qucstiou rou slaug|tcr aud ct|uic
clcausiug, it|out t|at couscut.
1|c cxpcricucc o t|c currcut A.L. Aricau Luiou uissiou iu Darur is a classic
dcuoustratiou o t|c pro|lcu o capacity - too c troops, too poorly cquippcd
aud too iuuo|ilc to pcroru ccctivcly cvcu t|c liuitcd civiliau protcctiou
tas| rcquircd |y t|cir prcscut uaudatc. 1|c Luitcd iatious is currcutly ccliug
dcspcratcly ovcrstrctc|cd, it| ovcr 80,000 uilitary aud 1S,000 civiliau pcrsouucl
dcploycd orldidc. ut it| t|c orld's arucd scrviccs currcutly a|sor|iug souc
20 uilliou ucu aud oucu iu uuioru - it| auot|cr S0 uilliou rcscrvists aud
11 uilliou parauilitarics - it |ardly sccus |cyoud t|c it o uau to or| out
a ay o ua|iug souc o t|at capacity availa|lc |cu aud |crc it's uccdcd to
prcvcut aud rcact to uau-uadc catastrop|c.
Auot|cr crucial, practical, opcratioual issuc is to addrcss t|c qucstiou, up uutil
uo aluost couplctcly ucglcctcd |y t|c orld's uilitarics, o dcvclopiug dctailcd
couccpts o t|csc l2i civiliau protcctiou opcratious, |ic| iuvolvc ucit|cr
traditioual ar ig|tiug, |crc t|c o|jcct is uot to stop violcucc as suc|, |ut to
dccat au cucuy, uor pcacc|ccpiug opcratious, |ic| alt|oug| t|csc days usually
iuvolvc uuc| uorc t|au t|c traditioual passivc uouitoriug, |avc still uot couc
to grips it| t|c |iud o rcspouscs uccdcd to copc it| t|c t|rcat or rcality o
atrocity criucs. It's uot just a uattcr o orcc couiguratiou, |ut o dcvclopiug uc
doctriuc aud uc |iuds o rulcs o cugagcucut aud uc |iuds o traiuiug.
liually, t|crc's t|c qucstiou, |cu you tal| a|out uuiuis|cd |usiucss, o gcucratiug
t|c political ill to act. As alays t|is is t|c |iggcst aud |ardcst piccc o |usiucss
to ac|icvc. ut c |avc to rccoguizc t|at iudiug t|c ucccssary political ill to do
auyt|iug |ard, or cxpcusivc, or politically scusitivc, or sccu as uot dircctly rclcvaut
to uatioual iutcrcsts, is just a givcu iu pu|lic aairs, doucstically or iutcruatioually.
Its a|scucc s|ould uot |c a uattcr or laucutatiou, |ut uo|ilizatiou. iolitical ill
is uot |idiug iu a cup|oard or uudcr a stouc souc|crc aitiug to |c discovcrcd:
it |as to |c paiusta|iugly |uilt.

Icl:t:cal :ll :s oct l:a:o :o a clca.a c. oac. a
stcoc scclc.c a:t:o tc lc a:sccc.ca.
:t las tc lc a:ostal:ol, l:lt.

All o us |avc a rolc iu t|is rcspcct, uot ouly t|osc occupyiug t|c couuaudiug
|cig|ts o policyua|iug aud dccisiou ua|iug, |ut acadcuics aud studcuts aud
iGOs aud ordiuary ucu|crs o t|c couuuuity o t|c |iud gat|crcd |crc
t|is cvcuiug. It is a uattcr o uot just top-dou cort - it| |cy oicials iu
|cy govcruucuts aud t|osc |o cau iulucucc t|cu dircctly as |opcully c iu
Crisis Group cau) ua|iug t|c cort to pcrsuadc aud uo|ilizc t|cir pccrs iu t|c
iutcruatioual couuuuity to ta|c t|c ucccssary actiou iu t|c L.i. Sccurity Couucil
aud clsc|crc. It's also a uattcr o |ottou-up uo|ilizatiou: ua|iug t|c voiccs o
ordiuary, couccrucd citizcus |card iu t|c corridors o pocr.
At auy lcvcl, t|c |cy to uo|iliziug t|c ucccssary political ill rou all t|c ucccssary
policy actors - aud t|crc arc a largc cast o t|cu, |ot| at t|c uatioual govcruucut
~
aud iutcrgovcruucutal lcvcls - is partly, o coursc, to |avc good orgauizatiou
aud good lo||yiug tcc|uiqucs aud good coutacts. ut a|ovc all it is to |avc good
arguucuts, iutclligcutly aud cucrgctically advauccd. 1|osc arguucuts uay |c party
iutcrcst arguucuts, dcsigucd to cousolidatc a govcruucut's vocal doucstic |asc
- alays au iuportaut clcucut iu t|c us| aduiuistratiou's iutcrcst iu Sudau,
suc| as it |as |ccu.
1|cy cau |c uatioual iutcrcst arguucuts, aud t|cy'rc iu act uuc| casicr to ua|c
uo iu rclatiou to quarrcls iu ar aay couutrics |ctccu pcoplc o |ou c
|uo uot|iug"- to rccall t|at auously disuissivc lauguagc o t|c ritis| iriuc
Miuistcr icvillc C|au|crlaiu at t|c tiuc o Muuic| iu t|c 1930s - |ccausc o
|at c do |uo uo a|out t|c capacity o ailcd statcs iu t|is glo|alizcd orld to
|c a sourcc o |avoc or ot|crs. 1|crc arc iuaucial arguucuts, iu tcrus o a uilliou
dollars ort| o prcvcutivc actiou uo saviug a |illiou dollars ort| o uilitary
iutcrvcutiou latcr. Aud t|cu, t|crc arc iu act uscully dcploya|lc uoral arguucuts,
givcu t|at |ocvcr |asc politiciaus' rcal uotivcs uay |c, t|cy alays li|c to |c sccu as
actiug rou |ig|cr oucs. So, it's iuportaut to givc t|cu t|c arguucuts to do just t|at.

... tlc casc jc. k2I .csts s:l, co c. ccco lao:t,.
tlc :css:l:l:t, cj :oc.:o tlc c.:cs cj a:o
aoa a:st.css cj c. jcllc lao lc:os.

Vc cau, i c uccd to, alays justiy ua|iug rcspousi|ility to protcct a rcality ou
|ard-|cadcd, practical, uatioual iutcrcst grouuds: statcs t|at cau't or ou't stop
iutcrual atrocity criucs arc t|c |iud o roguc statcs, or ailcd or ailiug statcs, t|at
cau't or ou't stop tcrrorisu, capous prolicratiou, drug aud pcoplc traic|iug,
t|c sprcad o |calt| paudcuics aud ot|cr glo|al ris|s.
ut at t|c cud o t|c day, t|c casc or l2i rcsts siuply ou our couuou |uuauity:
t|c iupossi|ility o iguoriug t|c crics o paiu aud distrcss o our cllo |uuau
|ciugs. lor auy o us iu aud arouud t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity - rou
iudividuals to iGOs to uatioual govcruucuts to iutcruatioual orgauizatious - to
yct agaiu iguorc t|at distrcss aud agouy, aud to oucc agaiu ua|c ucvcr agaiu" a
cry t|at riugs totally cuptily, is to diuiuis| t|at couuou |uuauity to t|c poiut
o dcspair. Vc s|ould |c uuitcd iu our dctcruiuatiou to uot lct t|at |appcu, aud
t|crc is uo grcatcr or uo|lcr causc ou |ic| auy o us could |c cu|ar|cd. 1|au|
you vcry uuc|.
0 1
ut t|c trut| o t|c uattcr is t|at or all t|osc sort o tactical aud stratcgic
cousidcratious, t|c orst possi|lc t|iug t|at cau |appcu |cu ouc is iu t|c
|usiucss o coulict prcvcutiou aud uass atrocity prcvcutiou is or just uo|ody
to rcally |uo |at's goiug ou, uo|ody to uoticc |at's goiug ou, aud or
t|at |orror to sort o louris| it|out auy attcutiou at all. 1|crc arc souc
dousidc ris|s, ycs, at t|c uargiu iu souc o t|csc cascs to giviug it attcutiou
|cu you'rc tryiug to ucgotiatc au outcouc. ut, |y aud largc, ovcr|cluiugly,
t|c |alaucc is ou t|c sidc o rcally closc aud iuucusc attcutiou.
DK: No, kiuJ of iu light of that auser, you haJ uauy choices heu you
left olitics. You coulJ have goue iuto busiuess, you coulJ have goue to ork
for the iuteruatioual orgauizatious at the UuiteJ Natious Jirectly, but you
chose to ork through au NGO. I'u curious about hy au NGO as the
sot you felt you coulJ be uost effective.
GL: Vcll, I asu't surc I as goiug to |c ccctivc at all, |ut it just souudcd
li|c a prctty good c|augc o pacc aud dircctiou rou 21 ycars o rclcutlcss
QULS1IONS AND ANSVLRS
1|c audicucc su|uittcd qucstious |ic| crc rcad |y Diaua iutlo.

DK: 1hauk you very uuch, Gareth. I'u goiug to start ith a questiou that
caue through cybersace via ]oyce Neu you kuo it's killiug her uot to
be here touight. Ve all realize the beuefits of focusiug ou articular crises,
of briugiug atteutiou to Jiffereut couflicts, but are there Jaugers as ell that
by Joiug that ublicly e iu fact are ushiug eole to try to cousoliJate
their ositious iu a ay that uay cause uore violeuce iu those areas:
GL: A|solutcly uot. 1|crc's ucvcr cuoug| attcutiou t|at you cau givc to t|csc
situatious, ucvcr cuoug| spotlig|t or pu|licity you cau put ou t|c ugliucss o
|at's occurriug. 1|c rcally |orri|lc actious o rcally |orri|lc pcoplc louris|
|cst iu dar| corucrs aud dar| spaccs aud aay rou t|at spotlig|t. 1|c |orrors
o lauda crc rcally ouly a|lc to |c pcrpctratcd |ccausc t|cy crc givcu
iusuicicut attcutiou, iusuicicut pu|licity, crc ar too rcadily disuisscd
as just auot|cr cpisodc iu t|c cudlcss rcpcrtoirc o coulict |ctccu tri|al
actors iu dar|cst Arica. 1|c ouly ay to |cgiu to dcal scusi|ly aud ccctivcly
it| t|csc issucs is to |riug t|cu iuto t|c spotlig|t o pu|lic discoursc aud
iutcruatioual discoursc.
It's truc t|at souctiucs |cu it coucs to solviug t|csc pro|lcus aud iudiug
solutious to souc o t|csc coulicts, aud t|c atrocity pcrpctratiou is goiug
ou, you do uccd to usc |ac| c|auucls to opcratc outsidc t|c raucor| o
t|at pu|licity, iu a ay t|at uig|t |c sccu as iuvolviug souc a|dicatiou o
rcspousi|ility to tcll trut| to pocr, or souc a|dicatiou o rcspousi|ility to
|ccp au issuc iu t|c spotlig|t. 1ruc it is t|at souctiucs t|at's |at diplouatic
ucdiatiou aud ucgotiatiou arc all a|out. Souctiucs you |avc to ucgotiatc souc
rat|cr uupalata|lc t|iugs, li|c possi|ly giviug auucsty to pcoplc sittiug across
t|c ta|lc rou you, |o you ould prccr to |avc struug up |y piauo irc.
2 `
cxposurc aud ucdia up cvcry uostril, caucras aud uicrop|oucs - aud it as
just a scusc t|at I autcd to ta|c stoc|. Aud t|c iGO t|at I cut to at t|at
stagc rcally as a c|augc o pacc |ccausc it didu't |avc, as it |as uo, 130
pcoplc or|iug iu 60 couutrics it| a |udgct o $1S uilliou. Vc |ad 20
pcoplc or|iug iu t|rcc couutrics it| a |udgct o lcss t|au $2 uilliou, stuc|
aay iu a uuuy littlc, sort o uaisou dc villc" iu t|c |ac| strccts o russcls.
So, it asu't t|at I t|oug|t I as goiug to c|augc t|c orld iu a dicrcut ay;
I asu't quitc surc I as goiug to |c a|lc to c|augc auyt|iug.
ut it rcally is iutcrcstiug: t|c rccdou o actiou t|at iGO iuvolvcucut givcs
you is vcry dicrcut o coursc rou t|c |iuds o coustraiuts t|at arc upou you
as a govcruucut. You rcally cau spca| out, spca| your uiud ou all sorts o
issucs. V|ct|cr auyouc ta|cs auy uoticc is souct|iug clsc, |ut you do |avc t|at
rccdou. V|at's lac|iug o coursc, aud |crc I do uoticc t|c coutrast, is t|c
lac| o auy actual cxccutivc aut|ority - you'rc uot actually sittiug iu t|c roous
|crc dccisious arc uadc. All you cau |opc to do is iulucucc t|osc |o arc,
aud to t|at cxtcut you arc alays goiug to |c a |it o a |it playcr. ut t|crc is a
rcally vcry siguiicaut aud iucrcasiug rolc to |c playcd |y t|csc |it playcrs t|csc
days, aud it rcally is quitc cxtraordiuary t|c ay iu |ic| t|c uougovcruucutal
couuuuity |as |urgcoucd aud grou so rapidly aud |as |ccouc suc| a
siguiicaut sourcc o iuoruatiou, aualysis aud idcas or policyua|crs.
Ouc o t|c t|iugs t|at |as stuc| iu uy uiud rat|cr vividly as a couvcrsatiou
I |ad it| ioi Auuau just a couplc o ycars ago. ic said, loo|, |cu I rcad
your rcports," aud iutcrcstiugly, |c did rcad our rcports, I |uo t|at |at
I'u vcry otcu |cariug is t|c voicc o uy ou L.i. pcoplc ou t|c grouud t|at
I'u uot |cariug couiug up t|roug| t|c systcu iu t|c L.i. itscl," it| all t|c
scl-ccusors|ip aud all t|c prcssurcs aud all t|c coustraiuts aud all t|c |ac|sidc
protcctiou rou t|c |ig|cr ups, all t|c auxicty uot to ocud ucu|cr statcs
t|at coucs it| t|c tcrritory iu a lot o t|osc iustitutioual cuvirouucuts. ic
said, I |uo |ccausc o your iudcpcudcucc aud |ccausc you'vc got acccss
to all t|csc pcoplc, you'rc rccordiug |at t|cy'rc rcally t|iu|iug a|out t|csc
situatious, aud I'u gcttiug aud |cariug t|c uuvaruis|cd trut| o all t|is." Aud
t|at as cucouragiug.
It's cxtraordiuary |o uauy govcruucuts support au orgauizatiou li|c uiuc
- a|out 24 o t|cu at last couut, it| rcally quitc largc suus o uoucy. Aud
t|cy do so |ccausc |at is lac|iug t|csc days rou so uauy govcruucuts, cvcu
grcat aud pocrul couutrics li|c t|c Luitcd Statcs t|at |avc uo particular
rcsourcc coustraiuts ou puttiug pcoplc iu t|csc situatious, is t|c capacity o
diplouats to do t|cir traditioual jo|s. 1|cy'rc all loc|cd up |c|iud |ig| stouc
alls aud |ar|cd irc aud it| all sorts o coustraiuts a|out |o t|cy cau
tal| to, aud it's vcry diicult to gct t|c scusc o t|c pulsc o |at's goiug ou
iu t|csc situatious, |o t|c rcal actors arc, |at t|c rcal dyuauics arc. So,
orgauizatious li|c uiuc aud li|c ot|cr iGOs t|at arc or|iug ou t|c grouud
iu t|is coutcxt |ccouc rcally quitc siguiicaut sourccs o iuoruatiou aud
aualysis iu a ay t|at rcally docs ua|c you ccl t|at at lcast you'rc coutri|utiug
souct|iug o rclcvaucc to t|c idcr situatiou.
DK: 1he questiou of sauctious as oue that you brought u as erhas
beiug very effective iu Darfur. Cau you be uore secific about the kiuJs of
sauctious you thiuk oulJ be effective there:
GL: Vcll, stoppiug jaujaccd caucl drivcrs it| Ai-47s rou s|oppiug iu
iarrod's is clcarly uot goiug to |c a |ugc coustraiut, so t|crc's ouly up to a
poiut t|at targctcd sauctious ou travcl aud cxtcrual |au| accouuts aud so ou
|avc au iupact. ut t|cy surc as |cll |avc au iupact ou t|c political lcadcrs|ips
o t|csc couutrics, aud t|cy'rc a vcry iuportaut diucusiou, |ut |y uo ucaus
t|c cud o it. V|at you'vc got to start loo|iug at oucc you'vc uovcd past
t|at group o sauctious arc t|osc t|at rcally do |itc ou t|c largcr ccououic
iutcrcsts, particularly i you cau uarro it iu souc ay to t|c iutcrcsts o t|c
pocr clitc it|iu t|c couutrics iu qucstiou. \cry otcu t|crc arc particular
|usiucsscs t|roug| |ic| t|cy act aud raisc t|cir rcvcuucs. 1|at's ccrtaiuly t|c
casc iu Darur: a lot o t|c uilitias arc supportcd |y particular |usiucsscs t|at
|avc vcry closc associatious it| t|c govcruiug rcgiuc aud could |c spcciically
targctcd. 1|crc arc all sorts o ays iu |ic| oil rcvcuuc aud ot|cr siguiicaut
iuputs could |c dircctly targctcd aud acctcd i t|c iutcruatioual couuuuity
as scrious a|out applyiug sauctious.
!
Aud t|crc arc, iu particular, |at c'rc uo lcaruiug agaiu to |c t|c uost
ccctivc o all ccououic sauctious: t|c sort o |au|iug rcstrictious, a lot o
t|cu quitc iuorual iu c|aractcr, t|at cau |c iuposcd to stop ccctivcly t|c
lo o iuvcstucut uuds, t|c lo o tradc iuaucc aud ot|cr |iuds o t|iugs
t|at ua|c t|c |ccls turu rouud. 1|c L.S. iu particular is vcry, vcry capa|lc
o applyiug t|is |iud o sauctiou, otcu t|roug| iuorual rat|cr t|au orual
ucc|auisus, just ua|iug it clcar to various iuaucial actors iu t|c L.S. aud
L.L. aud clsc|crc t|at i t|cy cugagc it| or support t|csc various uusavory
rcgiucs, t|cy ill |avc diiculty t|cusclvcs doiug |usiucss it| t|c L.S. |au|s
or ot|cr actors iu t|c L.S. iuaucial systcu. It docsu't ta|c too uauy uods aud
iu|s aud ucssagcs o t|at |iud or a lot o |usiucss to dry up. 1|c L.S. |as
|ccu quitc |appy to cuploy t|osc tcc|uiqucs, as I cll |uo, iu t|c coutcxt o
iort| iorca aud Irau aud cvcu iu t|c coutcxt o iauas iu ialcstiuc, |ut so
ar dccply rcluctaut to do so iu t|c casc o Darur.
So, t|at's ouc o t|c arcas iu |ic| I t|iu| a |cll o a lot uorc could |c douc
aud is |ciug douc at t|c uoucut to c|augc t|c cost-|cucit calculatiou o t|c
lcadcrs|ip o t|at rcgiuc, aud t|at's rcally |at t|c sauctiou stu is all a|out.
You'vc got to |c vcry carcul a|out |luut, idcsprcad sauctious |ic| iupact
dircctly ou populatious at largc, aud c'vc |ad a lot o cxpcricucc o sauctious
ovcr|ill iu t|c past aud t|at's uadc sauctious to souc cxtcut discrcditcd as a
policy tool. ut propcrly, carcully, surgically, cliuically applicd to t|c pcoplc
|o dcscrvc t|at |iud o attcutiou, t|cy cau |c vcry ccctivc iudccd. Aud I
or ouc ould lovc to scc a |it uorc o t|at |iud o prcssurc |ciug applicd iu
t|c currcut situatiou iu Darur.
DK: Vell, of course, after Darfur there are a uuuber of other laces
auJ I'u sure this is hat haeus heu you have the resousibility to
rotect coucet everyboJy auts to fit their articular couceru iuto
it. ut three questious here: Ho Jo you see the resousibility to rotect
orkiug iu Ziubabe: Vhat about uortheru UgauJa here 1,000 eole
are Jyiug every eek: AuJ the Israeli-ialestiuiau couflict, here I kuo the
Iuteruatioual Crisis Grou has orkeJ exteusively: Do you see a ossibility
of iuteruatioual iuterveutiou:
GL: Vcll, cac| ouc o t|csc arc coulict situatious or |uuau rig|ts-violatiug
situatious, |ic| cutircly justiy iutcruatioual attcutiou, cugagcucut, prcssurc,
various orus o actiou, |ut arc uot ucccssarily c|aractcriza|lc as rcspousi|ility
to protcct situatious. 1|c casc o Ziu|a|c, or cxauplc: cvcu t|oug| t|crc
|avc |ccu souc s|oc|iug violatious o |uuau rig|ts rcccutly couuittcd |y
lo|crt Muga|c, t|crc |asu't |ccu auyt|iug rcally rcuotcly coupara|lc to
|at |c iu act did iu Matc|clclaud iu t|c 1980s, |ic| did iuvolvc t|c uass
|illiug o political oppoucuts iu ouc particular part o t|c couutry, coupara|lc
to Saddau iussciu's tactics ou t|c iurds iu t|c uort| iu t|c latc 1980s aud
t|c S|iitcs iu t|c sout| iu t|c carly 1990s. ut iu t|c casc o Ziu|a|c, t|at's
uot currcut |c|avior |ic| satisics t|at sort o t|rcs|old.
1|c currcut |uuau rig|ts-violatiug |c|avior, |ilc pcculiarly |orri|lc, is uot
rcally all t|at distiuct rou t|c |uuau rig|ts violatious o uauy ot|cr actors,
dictators, tyrauts arouud t|c orld. Aud you |avc to |c vcry carcul a|out
sayiug t|csc arc rcspousi|ility to protcct situatious |ccausc iu doiug so, you
play iuto t|c |auds o t|osc uauy couutrics iu t|c dcvclopiug orld t|at scc
t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct couccpt, as I dcscri|cd it, as |ciug siuply a dcvicc
or giviug t|c old iupcrial pocrs t|c scusc t|at t|cy cau oucc agaiu iutcrvcuc
it| iupuuity iu just a|out cvcryt|iug t|at's goiug ou iusidc t|c dcvclopiug
orld, cvcryt|iug t|cy dou't li|c.
It sccus to uc t|at |at you'vc got to try aud do is rccoguizc t|at uot
all iustruucuts arc appropriatc to dcal it| cvcry class o pro|lcu. 1|c
rcspousi|ility to protcct, |ilc t|c lauguagc purcly liuguistically is |road
cuoug| to apply to all sorts o t|iugs - iucludiug t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct
pcoplc rou cuvirouucutal dcgradatiou, t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct pcoplc
rou iI\,AIDS paudcuics aud t|iugs o t|is |iud - to usc t|c lauguagc
iu t|at ay ould dilutc it o all its utility, o all its rclcvaucc iu |uildiug a
couscusus to dcal it| ouc particular |iud o pro|lcu it| |ic| it s|ocd it
as spcctacularly iucapa|lc o dcaliug iu t|c 1990s.
V|at t|c rcspousi|ility to protcct is all a|out is iudiug, as I'vc tricd to
dcscri|c, au altcruativc to t|c rig|t to iutcrvcuc lauguagc iu t|c casc o rcally

catastrop|ic |uuau rig|ts violatious iuvolviug uass |illiug or largc scalc
ct|uic clcausiug, |cu rig|t to iutcrvcuc lauguagc just didu't |avc auy |iud
o rcsouaucc, didu't attract auy |iud o couscusus at all. So, |at c - just
ou t|c priuciplc o solviug ouc pro|lcu at a tiuc or iu t|c |cst ay c cau
- rccoguizcd as t|at |crc's a pro|lcu still cryiug out or solutiou. Vc |avc
to courout t|c possi|ility o couscicucc-s|oc|iug situatious o t|is |iud
rccurriug, aud lct's rcscrvc t|is couccpt to t|osc sorts o situatious it| rcally
uajor t|iugs |appcuiug |crc aud uo - uot iu t|c distaut past - aud as a
rcsult, uaxiuiziug t|c c|auccs o iuuiug iutcruatioual couscusus to dcal at
lcast it| t|osc situatious iu a ay t|at c cau cusurc t|at t|cy ill ucvcr agaiu
rccur. So, t|at's t|c ratioualc aud a siuilar ratioualc as I cau spcll it out iu uorc
dctail c |avcu't tiuc.
DK: A quick questiou about iuJiviJual couutries takiug ou this resousibility
to rotect: If the iuteruatioual couuuuity cauuot agree ou the beuchuarks,
cauuot agree ou heu those beuchuarks have beeu uet, hat resousibility
Jo iuJiviJual couutries have to resouJ:
GL: Vcll, t|crc's a |ugc auouut o rcspousi|ility to protcct t|at cau |c
cxcrciscd alliug s|ort o a couscusus iu t|c Sccurity Couucil. I ucau,
t|c rcspousi|ility to prcvcut iuvolvcs all sorts o stratcgics, dcvclopucut
stratcgics, political ucdiatiou aud ucgotiatiou aud support stratcgics t|at arc
pcrcctly it|iu t|c scopc o iudividual couutrics to apply it|out auy largcr
raucor| or doiug so. Siuilarly, it| t|csc lcss-t|au-cocrcivc uilitary orcc
optious t|at c'rc tal|iug a|out - sauctious iu particular - you dou't uccd,
as iutcruatioual la uo stauds, Sccurity Couucil support or cudorscucut to
apply vcry toug|, cocrcivc ccououic sauctious ou auy|ody. ilcuty o t|osc
|avc |ccu applicd iu t|c past |y t|c L.S., |y Luropcaus agaiust couutrics t|cy
didu't li|c or ouc rcasou or auot|cr, justiicd or uot. 1|crc's uo pro|lcu a|out
doiug auy o t|at. 1|c pro|lcu is ua|iug t|cu ccctivc |cu t|cy'rc crratic,
or iucouplctcly or uot uuivcrsally applicd. ut t|at's a dicrcut issuc, aud souc
sauctious cau |c, as I'vc tricd to cxplaiu it| |au|iug sauctious a uoucut ago,
vcry ccctivc iudccd |cu applicd iudividually.
So, t|crc arc all sorts o opportuuitics, aud t|is is part o t|iu|iug a|out
rcspousi|ility to protcct as |ciug a|out uorc t|au just uilitary rcactiou.
V|cu it coucs to uilitary iutcrvcutiou, or cocrcivc or uou-couscusual uilitary
iutcrvcutiou at lcast, t|crc is o|viously a rcal pro|lcu i t|c Sccurity Couucil
ou't go aloug, ou't agrcc, i souc|ody t|rcatcus a vcto aud stops t|crc |ciug
t|at cudorscucut. 1|is is cxactly |at |appcucd iu 1999 iu iosovo. It as
a situatiou |ic| sccucd to cry out or t|at |iud o uilitary iutcrvcutiou:
ct|uic clcausiug as occurriug, |illiug as occurriug, Miloscvic |ad a trac|
rccord - it as t|crc star|ly or t|c orld to scc. V|at cau you say a|out
t|osc situatious.
I dou't t|iu| you cau cvcr say scusi|ly, iutclligcutly, t|at iu t|csc circuustauccs
t|crc is a lcgal rig|t to |ypass t|c Sccurity Couucil, t|at it's pcruissi|lc or a
coalitiou o dcuocracics or a coalitiou o t|c cll-iutcutioucd to go past t|c
Sccurity Couucil. I dou't t|iu| you cau cvcr ua|c t|at couccssiou, |ccausc oucc
you do it's a tcrri|lc slippcry slidc to t|c |iud o orld t|at Mr. us| sccus
to |c couorta|lc it|, |ut I |ct uost o us iu t|c rcst o t|c orld arc uot
- t|at is, a orld it|out rulcs, a orld it|out t|at raucor| o ordcr.
V|at you cau say t|oug| iu t|osc situatious is |at c said iu t|c rcport o
t|c Cauadiau Couuissiou - aud I |avc to say t|is as ouc o t|c |ardcst
|its o t|c rcport to ucgotiatc it| lcc iauiltou |ccausc |c, as a good L.S.
guy, as a|solutcly dctcruiucd to prcscrvc souc sort o rig|t o rccdou o
actiou or coalitious o t|c illiug to dcal it| t|c iosovo sort o situatiou,
aud |c aud I cut |auucr aud tougs ou t|is or days ou cud |corc c
|auucrcd out t|is couprouisc. V|at c rcally cauc up it| as souct|iug
t|at still ocuds, I t|iu|, t|c couccptually clcau-uiudcd auoug t|c laycrs
aud p|ilosop|crs arouud t|c placc, |ut actually carrics a |it o rcsouaucc
it| t|osc |o arc uorc auiliar it| political dcals, |ccausc t|is as rcally a
political dcal, a political propositiou.
V|at c agrccd to say as t|is aud I t|iu| it rcsouatcs vcry cll. V|cu a
couscicucc-s|oc|iug situatiou coucs aloug, |crc all t|c critcria or uilitary
~
actiou - t|c oucs t|at I spcllcd out - sccu to |c satisicd a vcry |ig|
t|rcs|old, satisicd iu tcrus o t|c |aru t|at is |ciug causcd; t|c propcr
iutcutiou, it| uo ot|cr uotivcs at issuc ot|cr t|au to protcct pcoplc; t|c
proposcd rcspousc |ciug quitc proportioual; it |ciug t|c last rcsort, iu t|c
scusc o all ot|cr optious uauicstly ailiug aud li|cly to coutiuuc to ail; aud
t|crc is uo o|vious rcasou to t|iu| t|at t|c rcsults ill |c disproportiouatcly
|ad, iu t|c scusc t|at t|c |ad ill outcig| t|c good i you go a|cad it| it),
t|c Sccurity Couucil t|cu, |ccausc o lussiau or souc ot|cr pig-|cadcducss,
says io, c'rc goiug to vcto t|is"; aud i uudcr t|osc circuustauccs, ouc
or uorc li|c-uiudcd couutrics say, V|at t|c |cll, c'rc goiug iu to do it
uouct|clcss |ccausc t|c situatiou crics out or it," aud t|cy do it aud t|cy'rc
succcssul; aud t|cu i t|c orld says, You arc succcssul, c agrcc it|
|at's |ccu douc, it as t|c rig|t t|iug to do" - i all t|osc couditious arc
t|cu satisicd, t|c s|ort poiut is t|at politically, t|at puts t|c Sccurity Couucil
rig|t out ou a liu|. It crcatcs a situatiou iu |ic| t|cy'rc t|c oucs lac|iug t|c
crcdi|ility, iu |ic| t|cir crcdi|ility - t|c crcdi|ility o t|c Sccurity Couucil
as au iustitutiou - is at ris| |ccausc t|cy'vc uisrcad t|c play. Aud t|c s|ort
poiut is, too uauy crrors o judgucut o t|at |iud |y t|c Sccurity Couucil
ill |c rcally quitc catastrop|ic or t|c crcdi|ility o t|at iustitutiou, aud
s|ould lcad ovcr tiuc to a rccoguitiou |y t|c Sccurity Couucil ucu|crs t|at
t|cy cau't aord to ua|c t|osc uista|cs agaiu.
It's a sort o rouuda|out political arguucut, |ut it's a ay o approac|iug it
|ic| docsu't say t|at uudcr uo coucciva|lc circuustauccs cau you do it, i t|c
Sccurity Couucil says uo or |atcvcr roug-|cadcd rcasou - uo, you cau't do
it, ull stop, t|at's t|c cud o t|c arguucut, lct's atc| pcoplc dic. It docsu't say
t|at. It says you do it iu t|c |uolcdgc t|at i you gct it rig|t, you'vc t|rou
t|c ouus |ac| iu t|c ot|cr dircctiou. iopcully t|at ill lcad ovcr tiuc to a
c|augc iu t|c Sccurity Couucil |c|avior.
DK: You ueutiou olitical ill as beiug erhas the toughest art of hat
ueeJs to haeu for soue of these thiugs to uove forarJ. Ve have to
questious about olitical ill. Lookiug at grassroots orgauizatious like Save
Darfur or Nouvioleut ieaceforce, hat cau these orgauizatious Jo, auJ
shoulJ they be giveu uore resources if that's such au iuortaut art of it:
GL: Vcll, political ill, as I said, uccds to |c gcucratcd iu a rat|cr top-
dou scusc aud a |ottou-up scusc - t|c |ottou-up scusc particularly iu
urgcut situatious as t|cy couc aloug, |crc t|c top-lcvcl policyua|crs arc
dcuoustratiug iudicrcucc or orsc. Grassroots caupaiguiug uudcr t|osc
circuustauccs - aud uy collcaguc o|u ircudcrgast, |o souc o you
|avc uct aud |o |as appcarcd ou t|is caupus aud ill agaiu s|ortly at
couucuccucut, is au a|solutc uastcr at gcucratiug t|at |iud o rcspousc - to
siuply s|o loudly aud clcarly t|at t|crc rcally is a coustitucucy out t|crc t|at
c cau't aord to iguorc: it ua|cs pcoplc sit up aud ta|c uoticc iu t|c corridors
o pocr. Aud |y saturatiug cougrcssucu it| c-uails aud ucssagcs aud so
ou, you rcally do c|augc quitc cousidcra|ly t|c dyuauics o iudicrcucc |ic|
uig|t ot|crisc apply. So, it's a vcry iuportaut part o t|c rcpcrtoirc.
V|ct|cr cvcry orgauizatiou s|ould |c tryiug to do cvcryt|iug iu t|is rcspcct is
sort o au issuc t|at c discuss iutcrually auoug oursclvcs iu t|c Iutcruatioual
Crisis Group. Vc tcud to do t|c rcally |oriug, |ac|roou stu: grassroots,
icld-|ascd aualysis; policy rccouucudatious; |ig|-lcvcl advocacy; or|iug
|c|iud closcd doors; ritiug couplicatcd rcports it| couplicatcd solutious
to couplicatcd pro|lcus. Vc tcud to lcavc t|c scvcu-sccoud souud-|itcs to
ot|crs, |ut it's uot |ccausc c dou't agrcc t|at's a |ig|ly rclcvaut part o t|c
raugc o rcspouscs t|at arc ucccssary to gcucratc a rcspousc. It's just t|at souc
orgauizatious arc |cttcr doiug souc t|iugs aud ot|cr orgauizatious arc |cttcr
doiug ot|crs, |ccausc, or cxauplc, |at c |avc to do is to prcscrvc at all
costs our crcdi|ility it| t|c policyua|crs aud uot |c sccu as out t|crc to gct
t|cu, to caupaigu, to cu|arrass t|cu. Our rolc is csscutially to say t|at t|is is
|at's |appcuiug aud t|is is t|c ay you cau |clp rcsolvc it aud t|is is a |olc
|uuc| o rcasous, political aud iuaucial aud uatioual iutcrcsts aud uoral, |y
you s|ould do t|is.
~0 ~1
V|at c uccd to do I t|iu| iu t|c casc o l2i is to dcvclop - aud a group
o us arc tal|iug a|out t|is rig|t uo as c spca|, aud I'u goiug to ic Yor|
touig|t to |avc a ucctiug a|out t|is touorro - a glo|al coalitiou to dcal
it| t|c uccd or urt|cr cousolidatiug t|c l2i uoru iutcruatioually, |ut
also gcucratiug a uorc co|crcut aud systcuatic rcspousc auoug t|c grassroots
orgauizatious t|at arc caupaiguiug iu particular cascs to ua|c t|is rcspousc
a rcality. iopcully c'll |c a|lc to gcucratc souc rcsourccs, i uot rou
govcruucuts - it's uot casy iu t|csc situatious - |ut rou ouudatious aud
|cucactors aud supportcrs, iu ordcr to try aud |arucss t|c cucrgy t|at is out
t|crc iu t|c couuuuity, aud t|c couuitucut aud t|c ill to rcsolvc t|csc
issucs. ut, it's a uulti-ticrcd, uultilaycrcd, uultidiucusioual rcspousc t|at's
ucccssary. iouc o t|is stu is siuplc. You dou't gct vcry ar just |y puttiug
uillious o dollars ort| o ads iu ucspapcrs sayiug, Darur is |orri|lc, do
souct|iug a|out it."
I s|ould iuis| t|is qucstiou I supposc it| au auccdotc a|out uy ou
rcspousc, aud it gocs |ac| to |y I joiucd t|is particular orgauizatiou. V|cu I
as a uiuistcr - as I as or 13 ycars, a orcigu uiuistcr or cig|t ycars, aud
doiug a lot o ot|cr t|iugs as cll - I as coustautly ucctiug it| groups
o iGOs |o ould say to uc, Miuistcr, you rcally oug|t to carc a|out t|is
situatiou. You oug|t to do souct|iug a|out it."
Aud I ould say to t|cu, Vcll, I do carc or I ouldu't |c spcudiug uy
tiuc ucctiug it| you across t|is ta|lc. ut |at I rcally aut to gct uy
|cad arouud is |at cau I do. V|at cau t|c Australiau govcruucut do, t|c
lig|tcig|t iu t|c iutcruatioual lcaguc list |cu it coucs to ccououic pocr
aud uilitary pocr, uay|c cucrgctically availa|lc diplouatically - |ut |at's
t|c lcvcragc c cau cuploy. V|o. V|at. V|cu. V|crc. io. ilcasc givc uc
souc auscrs to t|at."
Iuvaria|ly, iGOs ould say to uc, Vcll, t|at's uot our pay gradc. Vc'rc just iu
t|c |usiucss o scusitiziug you. Vc'rc iu t|c |usiucss o cucrgiziug you. Vc'rc
iu t|c |usiucss o tclliug you you'vc got to do souct|iug."
Aud so, I t|iu| t|crc is a prctty auiliar story. 1|osc Savc Darur Coalitiou
ads tclliug t|c Vas|iugtou govcruucut t|cy'vc got to do souct|iug, t|cy'rc
a littlc |it iu t|at catcgory. So, I said to uyscl, i cvcr I'u iu a positiou o
|ciug iuvolvcd iu t|c iGO uuivcrsc, |at I aut to do is to |c iuvolvcd it|
au orgauizatiou t|at actually auscrs t|osc sorts o qucstious: V|o. V|at.
V|cu. V|crc. io. V|at |iud o lcvcragc is availa|lc. V|at, i you arc
appropriatcly uiudcd, cau you actually do to c|augc t|c situatiou. Aud t|at's
t|c particular rolc t|at c'rc tryiug to play iu t|at rcspcct. It's uot t|at I, iu auy
ay, aut to diuiuis| t|at ot|cr rolc. It's just to say t|at it all |as its placc iu
t|is idcr uuivcrsc o activisu.
DK: Vell, I'u goiug to ask oue last questiou, auJ it's for the victius of these
couflicts. Soueoue askeJ a very iuterestiug questiou: Vhat voice shoulJ the
victius have iu these Jecisious about actious beiug uaJe ou their behalf, auJ
ho cau that voice be hearJ:
GL: Vcll, t|crc's uo uorc ccctivc advocacy t|at ouc cau uo|ilizc aud dcploy
t|au t|c advocacy o victius, to policyua|crs |o uig|t ot|crisc just
|c iudicrcut. I ucau, t|c grcat uirror is |ciug a|lc to gct Cii caucras
iuvolvcd - t|c old clic|c, |ut it's truc. I you cau gct t|osc victius' storics cast
iudcli|ly iu t|c uiuds o dccisiou ua|crs, it c|augcs t|cir pcrspcctivc. I ucau,
it just cuts t|roug| aud ua|cs pcoplc rccoguizc, or all t|c o|vious dicrcuccs,
t|crc is a couuou |uuauity t|crc aud t|crc is souct|iug |ic| crics out or
attcutiou. So, at t|c lcvcl o stiuulatiug cugagcucut, stiuulatiug a rcspousc,
victius' storics arc autastically iuportaut.
At t|c lcvcl o |at |iud o particular stratcgics arc uost appropriatc to
dcal it| situatious, cll, t|at ill o|viously dcpcud a |cll o a lot ou t|c
particular |iud o situatiou you'rc dcaliug it|. Souctiucs it's |ig|ly-couplcx
diplouatic uaucuvcriug, aud lcgal aud coustitutioual raucor|s arc goiug
to |avc to |c dcviscd to givc pcoplc a placc iu t|c suu aud so ou, aud |at's
ucccssary is just t|c uo|ilizatiou o t|at |iud o cxpcrtisc, rat|cr t|au t|c
cuotioual iupact.
~2 ~`
ut t|cu |cu you uovc ou to souc o t|c issucs li|c trausitioual justicc
- |at do you do iu t|c atcruat| o a coulict |cu it coucs to puuis|iug
t|c pcrpctrators o atrocity criucs aud to |at cxtcut s|ould you go dou
t|c pat| o criuiual justicc, to |at cxtcut s|ould you go dou t|c pat| o
trut| aud rccouciliatiou couuissious or souc ot|cr ay o accouuodatiug
t|at |urt it|out t|c orual trappiugs o lcgal trial aud puuis|ucut. - |crc
I t|iu|, agaiu, it's autastically iuportaut to listcu to |at t|c victius |avc to
say a|out t|at, |ccausc it's rcally quitc rcuar|a|lc |o otcu victius iu souc
o t|csc couutry situatious ill say, to t|c cxtcut t|at you cau gct a couuou
vic, t|at |at c rcally aut to do is just put t|is aul |orror |c|iud us.
Vc dou't aut t|c trappiugs o trial aud puuis|ucut aud cudlcssly protractcd
arguucuts aud itucss appcarauccs aud all t|c strcss t|at's associatcd it| t|at
- c rcally do just aut to uovc ou.
io, souctiucs t|at's |at souc pcoplc uscd to call alsc cousciousucss,
aud |at t|c victius arc rcally doiug is supprcssiug souct|iug |ic| t|c
laycrs rcally s|ould |c gcttiug out aud doiug auyay - aud I t|iu| iu a
casc li|c Cau|odia it's quitc iutcrcstiug t|at ovcr tiuc, vics ou t|is |avc
axcd aud aucd. 1|crc's uo dou|t t|at pcoplc crc just sort o uuu| iu t|c
iuucdiatc atcruat| o t|c civil ar t|at I |clpcd to ucgotiatc a solutiou to,
aud rctri|utivc justicc as t|c last t|iug ou t|cir uiud. ut as tiuc |as gouc
ou aud t|c iuucdiatc paiu |as oru o aud t|c largcr scusc o iujusticc |as
ta|cu |old, t|crc is uorc o a uood t|at c'rc uot goiug to lct t|is go it|out
|aviug at lcast souc o t|osc pcrpctrators up t|crc iu lig|ts.
ut or all t|c dicrcut uodcls t|crc arc or dcaliug it| t|csc situatious
- aud t|crc arc all sorts o iustitutious |ic| uo cxist to dcal it| t|csc
issucs - t|crc's uo coo|ic-cuttcr uodcl t|at's applica|lc, or t|at s|ould |c
applica|lc it|out |cariug aud listcuiug vcry, vcry carcully to |at t|osc
pcoplc, t|osc oucu, t|osc |ids, t|osc ucu, |o'vc sucrcd |avc to say. So,
it's a vcry iuportaut part o t|c |olc proccss, |ut |o it or|s out iu auy
particular casc is, as it| just a|out cvcryt|iug iu t|is |usiucss, vcry |ard to
gcucralizc. Lvcryt|iug dcpcuds ou rcally |uoiug aud rcally uudcrstaudiug t|c
dyuauics o cac| particular situatiou.
L..s .s.ss.. |.s |:.:: .:| . o:o|: .; :|: `.. L.:. ..oo..:,.
~! ~
RLLA1LD RLSOURCLS
D:scla:c.. 1lc cao . K.cc 1ost:ttc jc. Icacc c st:cc talcs oc .cscos:l:l:t, jc.
tlc ccotcot cj tlc sclcctca s:tcs c. ll:cat:cos, oc. accs :ocls:co :l, coac.sccot cj
tlc :cs .cscotca.
VL SI1LS:
Iutcruatioual Crisis Group. Crisis Group is au iudcpcudcut, uouproit,
uougovcruucutal orgauizatiou, it| souc 130 sta ucu|crs ou ivc coutiucuts,
or|iug t|roug| icld-|ascd aualysis aud |ig|-lcvcl advocacy to prcvcut
aud rcsolvc dcadly coulict. 1|c iouora|lc Garct| Lvaus is prcsidcut aud
CLO o Crisis Group. lctricvcd uuc 2007, rou .crisisgroup.org.

1|c 200S Vorld Suuuit. 1|c |ig|-lcvcl plcuary ucctiug o t|c 60t|
scssiou o t|c Luitcd iatious' Gcucral Asscu|ly as |cld Scptcu|cr 14-
16. 1|c Vc| sitc iucludcs liu|s to t|c outcouc docuucut aud statcucuts
|y ucu|cr statcs. lctricvcd uuc 2007, rou .uu.org,suuuit200S.
Luitcd iatious icacc|uildiug Couuissiou. Lsta|lis|cd iu 200S, t|c
icacc|uildiug Couuissiou ill uars|al rcsourccs at t|c disposal o t|c
iutcruatioual couuuuity to advisc aud proposc iutcgratcd stratcgics or
post-coulict rccovcry, ocusiug attcutiou ou rccoustructiou, iustitutiou
|uildiug aud sustaiua|lc dcvclopucut, iu couutrics cucrgiug rou coulict.
lctricvcd uuc 2007, rou .uu.org,pcacc,pcacc|uildiug,docs.|tu.
OOKS, SiLLCHLS AND AR1ICLLS:

ruutlaud, G., cd. 1987). C ..oo.. ;::. 1|: h.| C.oo.ss... ..
L....o:.: .. L::|.o:.:. Oxord: Oxord Luivcrsity ircss.

lciustciu, lcc. 2007). 3:,.. .s. 3.|.. .|| .. .....:, :. ::.:
o.: L.;s. Li Dispatc|. lctricvcd rou .uudispatc|.cou,
arc|ivcs,2007,02,|cyoud_ords_|u.|tul uuc 2007.

Iutcruatioual Couuissiou ou Iutcrvcutiou aud Statc Sovcrciguty. 2001).
1|: :s..s.|.|.:, :. .::.:. lctricvcd rou .iciss.ca,rcport-cu.asp. uuc 2007.

Luitcd iatious. 194S). C|.::. lctricvcd rou .uu.org,a|outuu,
c|artcr,. uuc 2007.

Luitcd iatious. Gcucral Asscu|ly. 1948). C..:.:... .. :|: ::.:... ..
..s|o:.: .; :|: ..o: .; :....:. lctricvcd rou .uu|c|r.c|,|tul,ucuu3,
|,p_gcuoci.|tu. uuc 2007.
Luitcd iatious. Gcucral Asscu|ly. 1948).U..:s.| :.|..:... .; |o.. .|:s.
lctricvcd rou .uu.org,Ovcrvic,rig|ts.|tul. uuc 2007.

Luitcd iatious. iig|-lcvcl iaucl ou 1|rcats, C|allcugcs aud C|augc.
2004). J o.: s:.: .|. C s|.: :s..s.|.|.:,. lctricvcd rou .uu.org,
sccurcorld,. uuc 2007.

Luitcd iatious. Sccrctary-Gcucral. 200S). I. |.: ;::.o. 1..s ::|.o:.:,
s:..:, .. |o.. .|:s ;. .||. lctricvcd rou .uu.org,largcrrccdou,.
uuc 2007.
Luitcd iatious. Sccrctary-Gcucral. 2000). h: :|: :.|:s. 1|: .|: .; :|: U..::
N.:...s .. :|: 21s: .:.:,. lctricvcd rou .uu.org,uillcuuiuu,sg,rcport,
ull.|tu. uuc 2007.

Luitcd iatious. Sccurity Couucil. 2006). :s.|:... 10. lctricvcd rou
.uu.org,ics,ircss,docs,2006,sc8821.doc.|tu. uuc 2007.
~ ~
AOU1 1HL UNIVLRSI1Y Oi SAN DILGO
C|artcrcd iu 1949, t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo is a louau Cat|olic iustitutiou
o |ig|cr lcaruiug locatcd ou 180 acrcs ovcrloo|iug Sau Dicgo's Missiou ay.
1|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo is couuittcd to prouotiug acadcuic cxccllcucc,
cxpaudiug li|cral aud procssioual |uolcdgc, crcatiug a divcrsc couuuuity aud
prcpariug lcadcrs dcdicatcd to ct|ical aud coupassiouatc scrvicc.

LSD is stcadast iu its dcdicatiou to t|c cxauiuatiou o t|c Cat|olic traditiou as
t|c |asis o a coutiuuiug scarc| or ucauiug iu coutcuporary lic. Glo|al pcacc
aud dcvclopucut aud t|c applicatiou o ct|ics aud valucs arc cxauiucd t|roug|
caupus ccutcrs aud iustitutcs, suc| as t|c oau . iroc Iustitutc or icacc c usticc,
t|c \alucs Iustitutc, t|c 1rausordcr Iustitutc, t|c Ccutcr or iu|lic Iutcrcst la,
t|c Iustitutc or la aud i|ilosop|y, aud t|c Iutcruatioual Ccutcr or C|aractcr
Lducatiou. lurt|cruorc, t|roug| spccial caupus cvcuts suc| as t|c Social Issucs
Coucrcucc, t|c aucs oud Stoc|dalc lcadcrs|ip aud Lt|ics Syuposiuu, aud t|c
oau . iroc Distiuguis|cd lccturc Scrics, c iuvitc t|c couuuuity to joiu us iu
urt|cr cxploratiou o t|csc valucs.
Iu rcccut ycars, t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo |as |ostcd uauy distiuguis|cd gucsts,
iucludiug io|cl icacc laurcatcs aud orucr ircsidcuts iuuy Cartcr aud Oscar Arias,
Suprcuc Court justiccs, Luitcd iatious aud Luitcd Statcs govcruucut oicials, as
cll as au|assadors rou couutrics arouud t|c orld. Iu 1996, t|c uuivcrsity |ostcd a
dc|atc |ctccu prcsidcutial caudidatcs ill Cliutou aud o| Dolc.
1|c LSD caupus, cousidcrcd ouc o t|c uost arc|itccturally uuiquc iu t|c uatiou,
is |uou as Alcala iar|. li|c t|c city o Sau Dicgo, t|c caupus ta|cs its uauc
rou Sau Dicgo dc Alcala, a lrauciscau |rot|cr |o scrvcd as t|c iuiruariau at
Alcala dc icuarcs, a uouastcry ucar Madrid, Spaiu. 1|c Spauis| lcuaissaucc
arc|itccturc t|at c|aractcrizcs t|c ivc-ccutury old Luivcrsity o Alcala scrvcs as
t|c iuspiratiou or t|c |uildiugs ou t|c Luivcrsity o Sau Dicgo caupus. 1|c
arc|itccturc as iutcudcd |y t|c ouudcrs, is|op C|arlcs lraucis uddy aud
Mot|cr losalic iill, to cu|aucc t|c scarc| or trut| t|roug| |cauty aud |aruouy.
lcccut additious, suc| as t|c statc-o-art Douald i. S|ilcy Ccutcr or Scicucc
aud 1cc|uology aud soou t|c uc Sc|ool o lcadcrs|ip aud Lducatiou Scicuccs
|uildiug, carry ou t|at traditiou.
A ucu|cr o t|c prcstigious i|i cta iappa, LSD is rau|cd auoug t|c uatiou's
top 100 uuivcrsitics. LSD ocrs its 7,S00 uudcrgraduatc, graduatc aud la
studcuts rigorous acadcuic prograus iu uorc t|au 60 iclds o study t|roug| six
acadcuic divisious, iucludiug t|c Collcgc o Arts aud Scicuccs aud t|c sc|ools o
usiucss Aduiuistratiou, lcadcrs|ip aud Lducatiou Scicuccs, la, aud iursiug
aud icalt| Scicucc. 1|c oau . iroc Sc|ool o icacc Studics is sc|cdulcd to
opcu lall 2007.


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