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Airsoft Retreat > Airsoft General > Sniper's Perch > The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete

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Topic: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete (Read 1463 times)

lulukchoo23
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The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
on: December 20, 2010, 04:00:38 PM

Posts: 989

The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works


by: lulukchoo23 *Important! Whenever you see Important! in this guide, it is a key phrase that must be remembered. This guide is intended as a sort of "stepping-stone" guide to the rest of the vast seas of information out there in ASR. Use it as a sort of dictionary. It may not answer your questions on certain detailed topics such as DIY (Do-it yourself) mods, how to snipe effectively, how to maintain your gun, what bb's to use, whatever, but there is loads of info on that. Like I said, this guide is a "stepping stone" to the rest of the loads of information. I recommend to newbs, after reading this, to go through the stickies. This guide will arm you with the definitions and names of parts that will be listed in those guides, like a dictionary.

Do work, son.

1. Introduction

Now, everyone was once a newb when they first stepped into the sniping realm. Some may have come from the AEG realm already knowing some airsoft jargon, but there are those who had no idea what was going on. The talk of "sears" and "pistons" and "trigger mechanisms" and even "hop up" at one time had once confused even me when I was a newbie. After gaining much experience and knowledge, snipers begin to talk amongst each other using all of their fancy jargon and such, and newbies just can't keep up because they don't know what those big sniper guys are talking about. I know when I first decided to be a sniper, when I first signed up for ASR to gain more information, I had a lot of trouble because I couldn't understand what people were talking about in their posts when talking about their guns. Of course, there are many newbs who ask people questions in threads on this site, and the only answer they get is, you guess it: SEARCH. I admit, even I have said this to some newbs, but yet, they don't know HOW to search. People recommend them to read threads like "The Cost of an Upgrade Sniper Rifle" thread, which is 1200+ posts. Even if one post took 1 second to read, that's 20 minutes of reading, and the average newb has the attention span of 20 seconds. Plus, all the information in that thread and others is too detailed and mind-numbingly confusing to the newb. tl;dr Basically this guide is for all the newbies who decided they would be snipers, and tried to gain information from this site and other sites but were lost because they had no idea what they were reading. Or, if you're maybe even a somewhat experienced player who is a little confused on how something works. I, among many others, must say that sniping is very hard. You need to know if you're ready. Many other

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threads already preach of this, so there's no point going on and on about it. Basically, IF YOU'RE A STARTER INTO AIRSOFT, DON'T SNIPE. GET AN AEG, LEARN THE GAME, PLAY A LOT, IF YOU LIKE IT AND THINK YOU'RE UP FOR SNIPING, THEN GO FOR IT!. . Reason is: Sniping is EXPEN$IVE!! The cost of ammo alone is twice as much because sniping ammunition is much higher quality and much heavier, meaning more $$$. Not to mention precision-made internal parts that range from $5 to $150 per part, and there's a lot of parts in a gun...... If you don't follow that, don't come crying to me or your parents that you spent a $600 (which is the average cost of a decent upgraded gun) on a piece of junk and still are getting raped by your neighbors Crosman MP5's they got at Dick's. Anyways!

2. The Gun
-Note, all the guns I talk about are going to be SPRING AIRSOFT SNIPER RIFLES, not gas or co2 or whatever.

Basically, when I say "Spring Sniper Rifle", that means it is a gun that uses a SPRING to shoot a bb. I'll go into more detail on that later, but that's basically how it works. There's a million of them, but not many that are really good enough to actually use competitively. Important! You see, what is the main reason there are snipers? Simple answer: TO OUTRANGE. There's also like stealth, accuracy, stopping power, etc. but they all revolve around OUT RANGING. If you can't OUT RANGE an AEG (Automatic Electric Gun), there's absolutely NO POINT in getting an airsoft sniper rifle. Why have the ability to shoot 1 bb 150 ft. every second, when you can shoot 15 bb's 200 ft. every second? There are few airsoft sniper rifles that have the potential to OUTRANGE an AEG. The ones you'll find at Dick's Sporting Goods are obviously not going to be good enough.

Basically, here's a list of guns NOT to get because they don't have the potential to outrange without total reconstruction (not limited to these guns only): -UTG M324 (a.k.a. master sniper series) -TSD m100, TSD m116, basically any gun that looks like an m14 and is a springer -Any Swiss Arms gun -Any AGM gun -Any UHC gun, like the silly Super-9 or Tac-9 or whatever -ANY GUN THAT TRIES TO COPY AN AUTOMATIC GUN BUT SAYS IT'S A "SPRING POWERED RIFLE" OR SOMETHING

Now, as a newbie, there are really only 2 guns that you should ever consider. These 2 are the 2 guns that have the most upgrade parts out there, the most potential to outrange, the most known about in the community, and more importantly, the guns I know most about. LOL! Really, as a newb, you should ONLY think about these 2 guns. There are others out there that may seem sexy and cool, but it's like jumping in the deep end before you ever learn how to swim. Need to develop a good foundation on one of the easier guns before moving on to guns that are less known about. The guns are: The Tokyo Marui VSR-10 and the Maruzen APS96 (for the VSR-10, there's the g-spec version. I don't recommend it. It has a shorter barrel, which means less fps and it hurts you're out ranging potential) Here they are, respectively:

Hold you're horses cowboy! I'm sure you just googled those and saw the ridiculous price, but luckily, there are guns we consider as "clones": guns that replicate these super expensive guns, but reduce the price to a fairly reasonable one, around $100 give or take. Here are the names of the clones that you should get. There are some who "claim" to be clones, but really aren't. To be safe, ONLY get ones on this list: -TM VSR-10 clones:

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-JG Bar 10 (most common) -Socom Gear R700 -Maruzen APS 96 clones -UTG/TSD/WELL Mk96 (most common, they are LITERALLY ALL THE SAME) -Bravo Mk98 (Same as the guns above) Important! Now, for the rest of this guide, it will basically be only limited to how a VSR-10 works, because this gun can solely represent EVERY SINGLE airsoft sniper rifle, since INTERNALLY, ALL AIRSOFT SNIPER RIFLES ARE ABOUT THE SAME (including the APS96). When I say VSR-10 in this guide, it also applies to its clones.

3. A List of Every Part in a Tokyo Marui VSR-10


A TM VSR-10 is not so complex as you think. There are basically 3 main parts in the gun that work together to propel a bb forward. The 3 main parts are: the cylinder, the trigger, and the hop up system. We'll get to see HOW these work in the next section. The body of the gun (EXTERNALS) are basically what hold these 3 parts together so they can work together. Think of the gun as the skeleton of a body and the skin, basically provides structure and protection. Think of the 3 main internal parts as if they were organs in this body that work together to allow the entire body to function. Outside of the gun, we have several parts that provide structure and protection for our 3 internal systems. We have: -The stock -The reciever -The outer barrel

Inside the gun, we have its 3 main parts: Cylinder, Trigger, and Hop Up System. Within the Cylinder, we have: -Cylinder -Piston -Spring Guide -Spring -Cylinder head

Together: -Important! Some pistons have a special piston head (top of the piston) that has a "cup" that can be put on the piston head to help air seal and "dampen" the impact of the piston (we'll talk about this later). Only a few upgraded pistons have it though.

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Within the Trigger, we have: -Trigger Box (shell encasing the sears) -Trigger -Trigger Sear -Piston Sear -Safety Sear -Spring Guide Rod (Goes by many names, like Spring Guide Stopper) -Various springs that allow the sears to return to its original position once the gun has been fired.

(Taken from http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/1640/guide5un2.jpg)

Together: Withing the hop up system, we have: -Hop up chamber -Bucking -Nub -Hop up arm -Inner Barrel -Various other parts to load the bb from the magazine

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Together: Then, of course, we have the magazine which holds the bb's you are about to shoot:

Next, we will see how EACH system works by itself!

4. How each of the 3 systems in our gun works


Cylinder: The cylinder is the simplest system in the gun. Basically, the cylinder functions as an air compressor. Within the cylinder, we have the spring guide, spring, and piston as said before. Basically, inside, the spring guide is INSIDE the spring, and the long rod "guides" the spring. On the opposite end of the spring is the piston, which is wrapped AROUND the spring. Say, if both of these objects came close together (which they do), then obviously the spring, which is in between the piston and spring guide, will Compress. And, if the force that was applied to Compress the spring were to disappear (which it does), then the spring obviously will Decompress, rather violently at that. So, basically that's how it works. Piston is pulled back towards the spring guide (which is what happens when you pull the bolt back). The piston then "locks" with trigger, and once the trigger is pulled, the lock disengages, the piston flies forward and pushes air out of the cylinder head, and propels the bb. How does pulling the bolt (cylinder) back cause the piston to move back? Won't the spring guide move back too, if you pull the bolt back? Well, no. The spring guide actually remains stationary the whole time. The Spring Guide Rod in the trigger (spring guide stopper) allows the spring guide to remain completely stationary the entire time.. So when you pull the bolt back, the entire cylinder moves back, which means the piston moves backwards. But since the spring guide stays still, really, the piston just gets "pulled Into" the spring guide, compressing the spring. Then, as said before, the piston "locks" with the trigger. Then, once you push the bolt back forward, since the piston is "locked" and the spring guide ALWAYS REMAINS STATIONARY, nothing inside the cylinder is moving. Only the cylinder moves forward, allowing air in FRONT of the piston. Then, once the trigger "unlocks", the piston flies forward, pushing out all of the

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air in the cylinder and out through the cylinder head. This picture from ASF should explain it quite well:

From: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Python890/boltoperation4.jpg Trigger: The trigger is slightly more complex in how it all works. It's easier to understand once you actually own it and can play with it. Basically, all the trigger does is exactly what you think. Basically, once you pull the trigger, the trigger "unlocks" and allows the piston to fly forward. Simple as that. HOW it does it is quite complex though. Basically, first, the piston "locks" onto the "piston sear" of the trigger, and once the trigger is pulled, the TRIGGER sear moves gets pulled down, then the PISTON sear moves down with the trigger sear, unlocking the piston and allowing it to fire. This system is generally the same in most spring airsoft guns, except some piston sears don't "move down", some may "rotate" and unlock the piston (like in the APS96) Important! Like I said, it's much easier explained if you can actually get your hands on it. Reference the picture above in the cylinder section for help. Hop Up System: Out of all the systems, the hop up system is the most complex. Basically what the entire system does is applies backspin to the bb. Why do you want this? Well, ever heard of a CURVEBALL in baseball? It's when the pitcher throws the ball, but applies TOPspin on the ball. The ball spins forward, pushing air UP, causing the ball to dive downwards. The Hop Up System does the opposite. Applying backspin makes the bb push air DOWN, causing the ball to sort of "float", meaning it travels much further and also travels straighter. This is not only in airsoft. People also use backspin in other sports such as tennis, ping pong, golf, and billiards. How does the system do this? Well, basically, once the bb has been "fired" (after both the cylinder and the trigger have completed their function), the bb quickly moves through the hop up chamber. Inside the hop up chamber, the bb "strikes" a piece of rubber (the bucking) protruding into the hop up chamber above the bb itself. Contact with this rubber at high speed makes the bb start to spin backwards, backspin. the bb then travels down the inner barrel, with the air from the cylinder constantly pushing on the bb itself, constantly gaining speed, until finally it leaves the inner barrel and smacks your friend in the head. This diagram from Airsplat.com does a great job to explain this:

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From: http://www.airsplat.com/Images/Airsoft-HopUp.jpg The "bucking" is what causes the backspin, a.k.a. the hop up. The bucking cannot do it alone though. In order to "protrude" into the hop up chamber as mentioned in the last paragraph, the bucking needs something to PUSH it INTO the hop up chamber. The hop up arm does this. On the very "tip" of the arm is the Nub, which is what directly makes contact with the bucking. Once the arm is moved downward more, the nub pushes into the bucking more, the bucking then protrudes more into the hop up chamber, and there is naturally more backspin that is applied. It would be opposite if you moved the arm up. This ability to adjust how much backspin applied is called Adjustable Hop Up. In the VSR-10, the hop up can be adjusted with a small knob that you can push forward and backwards. Other guns may require an allen wrench to turn a knob to adjust (like the APS 96). This Picture shows the hop up chamber of a VSR-10 and what goes on after the bb is fired:

*Note: That picture is a TM VSR-10 with a special bucking, so if you're gun doesn't look like that, don't worry. One note, one might wonder, why is the inner barrel included in the hop up system? Well, you see, the BUCKING is actually wrapped around the inner barrel, like in the picture.

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Okay, well if it is wrapped, how does the bucking protrude into the inner barrel and make contact with the

bb? Well, the inner barrel actually has a HOLE in it, a.k.a. the "cut". Important! Different guns have different "cuts". AEG's usually have an AEG "cut", VSR-10 and a few other guns have a TM "cut", Maruzen APS-96 has an APS "cut", and KWA AEG's have a special K "cut" (IIRC). Naturally, with different cuts, we have different buckings, so it's important to make sure, if you get a replacement or upgrade, to get a TM cut bucking. So, now you know how each of the 3 systems work and how they work together. That's pretty much the entire make up of the gun internally. There may still be some terms that come up when reading these threads, so the next section will talk about other terms you may encounter while on ASR's Sniper's Perch.

5. Other commonly mentioned terms and jargon


You may run into several terms not yet mentioned in this guide while trolling the forums. Here are some of the more common ones: 45 Degree and 90 Degree Pistons and Triggers: These terms describe the angle at which the piston and piston sear meet. The TM VSR-10's piston and piston sears meet at a 45 degree angle and are the ONLY guns that use a 45 degree system (besides another TM gun that you really shouldn't worry about since it is much harder to upgrade, and you are a newb), shown in this picture from www.x-fire.org.

http://www.x-fire.org/vsr10/img_trigger_problem/2.jpg In other guns like the APS 96, the piston and piston sears meet at a 90 degree angle, as shown in another picture from www.x-fire.org.

http://www.x-fire.org/vsr10/img_trigger_problem/3.jpg The 45 degree system is very prone to breaking, since the piston always has the possibility of "slipping" off. It's like standing on a slanted 45 degree roof versus standing on a flat roof. You can slip off a 45 degree roof and fall to the ground much easier, especially if you're shoes are very worn down (you'll get this analogy once you read the next section). Important! As you may have assumed, if you have a 45 degree trigger, you must have a 45 degree piston, and same with 90 degrees. A 45 degree trigger will NOT work with a 90 degree piston. Flat-nub, V-Nub, U-Nub, Concave Shaped nub (SCS, PCS), H-nub, BLEH-nub: (There's no bleh nub, just kidding on that) describes the shape of the nub. Many believe the shape of the nub can affect the hop up pattern in a gun. This thread on another forum explains one man's thoughts on it (which is generally what most people think): http://shredderscs.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=scs&action=display& thread=33 ABB rings (Anti BlowBy Rings): A ring wrapped around the bucking to prevent air from the cylinder to escape when the gun is fired. Dramatically improves FPS and consistency. For more information, contact MarineSGT and Noobie, ASR member's who coined the term. Barrel Spacers: Basically, it's an object or objects that fill the space between the inner barrel and the outer barrel (the outer barrel is simply a long hollow tube). Prevents the inner barrel from wiggling around during firing. Shimming: Shimming in general means to fill in a space and prevent wiggling (common in AEG's as well), but in the Sniper realm, it will usually just mean shimming in terms of the hop up arm. A common problem in the VSR-10 is that the hop up arm can wiggle left and right, so "shims" (little brass sheets) can be applied to the left and right of the arm to prevent it from wiggling. Contact forum member SVTCobra for more information. Tightbore Barrels: As the name implies, the diameter of the barrel is very "tight", allowing less wiggle room for the bb, more consistency, and higher fps because of less air possibly flowing "around" the bb. Tends to cause more jams in the guns though. Twist barrels: Inner barrels with a spiraling "twist" down the inner barrel that (with physics even I don't know) help the bb make less contact with the inner barrel while it travels down the inner barrel, causing increase in consistency. Generally only for guns under 350 fps, as going higher takes the effect away. Upgraded Trigger Mechanism or Trig Boxes (Zero Trig, M-Trig, V-trig) Basically, these are upgraded triggers. All upgraded triggers are 90 degree systems, so they are much stronger than the 45 degree stock trigger mechanism. Rebrands: Rebrands are when one company takes another companies gun and slaps their own companies name on it and put it in their own box. Basically, WELL/UTG/TSD/Bravo Mk96 (Bravo MK98) are all rebrands of each other. Key: They are all the SAME GUNS.

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Imitations: An imitation is ALMOST a clone (as said before, a clone is a complete copy of a higher quality gun like a VSR-10, i.e. a JG Bar 10) but has some differences. For example, the Well MB02 is an imitation VSR-10. It has slight differences in the size of the receiver which can lead to problems when buying an upgraded cylinder. Mag Catch: Guns require something to hold the magazine in place, obviously, or they'll fall out. They also need to be able to have a button or switch to push to allow the magazine to "eject". The mechanism that does this is a "Mag Catch". In a VSR-10, these are 2 tiny plastic pieces and a spring that goes in a hole by the mag "well". In the APS-96, it is a metal odd-thing that is near the top of the mag "well". "Real-shock": TM makes a special VSR-10 that incorporates a "Real Shock" system that gives the gun a higher amount of recoil. Ball Bearing spring guide: A spring guide that has a ball bearing at the bottom where the spring rests on. It allows the spring to freely rotate and not "torque" up, or coil up. Makes the spring more efficient and puts less stress on the sears because the spring isn't so resistant. Can lead to higher fps. "Slotted" pistons: Pistons that have a sort of cut out around the sides of the piston that lets the piston be lighter. Adds fps. Spring Spacer: A "spacer", or just an object or thing, that is placed around the "rod" of the spring guide at the very bottom. It shortens the spring, leading to higher resistance by the spring. Only advantage is higher fps, but leads to higher wear on the sears (only a problem in 45 degree systems) and also can weaken the spring over time. Slam Firing: See next section. Feel free to comment if you want me to add more or to clarify something.

6. A Note on "Slam-Firing"
Important! This usually only happens in a VSR-10/clone, though other guns are still vulnerable. A common problem with the 45 degree system in the VSR-10 is that the piston will occasionally "slip" off the piston sear, leading to what we call "slam-firing". In the human world, it is the equivalent of something we call Premature... well..... you know. Basically, the gun fires itself without you pulling the trigger, and it only gets worse over time. Not only is slam firing dangerous for other people who may be accidentally shot, it is also very bad for your gun. Constant slam firing puts huge strain on the parts in your gun, and what will usually happen is that small screws, most like the one connecting the rear of the trigger to the rear of the receiver. The screw will strip, leading to MOAR slam firing and eventually the gun will just fall apart and fail to function. There are many causes. I'll list them in order of how common they occur: -Wearing down of the piston sear (occurs over time, but is accelerated by stronger springs) -Loose spring guide stopper (occurs if you are very rough with your gun) -Stripped screws or screw holes in connecting trigger to receiver (same cause as before; can also be caused by over-tightening screws) -Loose trigger/receiver screws (could be bad assembly at the factory or by you) There are other causes, but are usually tied to one of these causes. Most common ways to fix it if it's caused by wear of the sear are to either get new sears in the gun or to get a new, 90 degree trigger mechanism and 90 degree piston. As for stripped receivers, you don't have much of a choice. You may choose to re-tap the screw hole and get larger screws or just get a new receiver or gun. There are other things that can be done to help delay or prevent it from happening, like getting a ball bearing spring guide, downgrading springs, and all in all just being careful not to throw your gun around or leave it cocked for a month. There really aren't any special causes for slam firing. It really is just one of those 4 causes. If you decide to get an APS 96 or clone or really any other gun that isn't a TM, you pretty much don't need to worry about this happening unless you're over-tightening your screws that connect the trig mech to the receiver or being to rough and end up stripping screws.

7. Sidearms

There are also few threads on this, and many say just to leave it up to common sense, and really, that is the answer. There is no single, perfect sidearm. It's up to you. Personally, I like the KWA m93r for it's full auto capabilities and also how easy it is to store. Really, for a while I rolled with a Crosman Tri-Shot shotgun, and I loved it. Really, all you can do is just explore. See what you like. I'd recommend starting out with a shotgun or a Gas Pistol.

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8. A Final Note for you now not-so-Newbie's

The Sniper's Creed: "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing."

Really, after reading this, everything should be self explanatory. You should be able to learn from other threads on HOW to upgrade now that you are armed with a better vocabulary and understanding of your gun, which is why I will NOT mention how to upgrade. This guide was written because I don't know of another that explains HOW a gun works, but there's a million guides that explain how to upgrade, so it is YOUR responsibility to read those. I also won't mention how to maintain your gun, clean it, silence it, decorate it, love it, whatever, since there are millions of other guides out there as well to tell you how to do that. It is you're responsibility to search for those. In fact, I'll be nice here. Here are some helpful "other" readings you can do that have helped me in the past understand my gun much better. First 2 are stickies. Highly recommend the 1st one; should be read through after reading through this guide: TCF's Complete Guide To Snipers and Sniping (Death to 56K) written by The Crimson Falcon. If my guide left you with a question, this one will solve it. It's got everything you need, from maintenance to disassembly to even troubleshooting, and even has upgrading. You may have to do some wading through, but, like sniping, you need to learn to be patient. SVT Cobra's BAR 10 Magazine Maintenance Guide written by SVT Cobra Great guide on how to maintain you're VSR or clone's magazine. The cost of an upgraded sniper rifle thread started by Marine SGT There are countless upgraded guns in this thread with many pictures that you can model you're very first gun after. These include costs, which I know will be a major concern. Majority is VSR-10 user's guns. Great to learn how to upgrade your gun. APS 96 Disassembly and Reassembly VideosPart 1 and Part 2 Though it seems silly, these are actually really friggin' good videos on how to take apart your APS 96. Really clear and thorough and pretty fun to watch, and even though it includes a guide to the PDI chamber (which I found very useful since the chamber itself comes with japanese incstructions), you don't really need to watch that part. Just watch the other parts. Cheap-as-Possible L96 build, doing mostly DIY mods A great thread with a lot of useful info on it to help any L96 user learn about upgrading their gun. Why aren't there 8 mm airsoft sniper rifles? Reasons why and why not Not for the stupid. Explains why 8 mm bb's (rather than the standard 6 mm), though attractive, is a stupid idea for snipers. Warning: There is science in this thread.

To all those who are APS 96 users, don't feel like I didn't talk about that gun enough. Everything in this guide can be applied for the Mk96, so if you're a newb who's considering it, all this knowledge you gained still can and will translate to your gun as well. Like I said, since you're a newb, you really should be only getting either a VSR-10/clone or a APS 96/clone. I know you see other sexy looking guns like the Echo 1 ASR, the Javelin M24, Classic Army M24, Snow Wolf M99, TM L96AWS, Sun Project M24, Maruzen APS2 and it's counterparts, Well MB07, Bravo BV7, etc. but trust me, you need a good working foundation with an easy gun before moving on to much harder guns to upgrade like those. Gotta learn to hit off the tee before you can hit a live pitch. Gotta learn your alphabets before learning to read. Gotta learn how to crawl before learning to walk.

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Important! To be honest, all in all, the best way to learn how a gun works is simply owning one. I really started to learn my gun inside and out and actually started to understand advice given on this website once I actually got it. Besides that, read other guides. Read guides in the stickies on how to snipe. Read how to upgrade. SEARCH! The more you learn, the easier it gets to understand what people are talking about on this thread. Have fun and be safe! -12/20/10
Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 07:58:06 PM by lulukchoo23 Logged
Quote from: XavierMace on January 22, 2011, 01:17:19 AM I play with woman ALL THE TIME.... Oh, you meant in airsoft.

L96 Mag Catch Mod

xbeeongx
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 09:04:03 PM

Posts: 514

Didn't one of the admins already make something like this?


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A sheepdog can bite from any distance.

lulukchoo23
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 10:37:14 PM

Posts: 989

Not one about how a gun works internally. Just how to do maintenance, how to mod, and stuff, but not one guide says exactly how one works internally.
Logged
Quote from: XavierMace on January 22, 2011, 01:17:19 AM

Do work, son.

I play with woman ALL THE TIME.... Oh, you meant in airsoft.

L96 Mag Catch Mod

gunfighters
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #3 on: December 21, 2010, 10:45:34 AM

Posts: 2221

very nice notes.. tsd/utg/well l96 are all the same maby add some info on piston heads
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #4 on: December 21, 2010, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: xbeeongx on December 20, 2010, 09:04:03 PM Didn't one of the admins already make something like this?

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its all spread out in 10 different threads and the 90 page bar 10 thread nobody wants to go through.
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 01:27:24 PM

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Well researched, nice compilation. Of course, you're missing the point of WHY we tell the new players to search. If we just waste our time hand-making guides for them on material that they can find with a fair amount of ease, then they just ask questions, and instead of getting intelligent threads based on research, you just get a bunch of the same old questions. As for you, congratulations, you've proven to me that you are not a waste of my time. You put together a pretty decent guide. Unfortunately, after a few months, it's going to be hidden in the perch, and nobody will read it (just like the other stickies). So if we don't tell people to search and read the stickies (which is not the same thing as telling them to search; they're linked at the top of the perch,

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and the forum rules recommend that newbies to the forum read the stickies before they post) then they just don't, and we spend all our time answering the same tired questions, or Atilla just drops the ban-hammer and they're gone. If you care about the newbies, then do as we do, and tell them to search. We don't do it to be jerks. We do it because if we don't, this forum gets reduced to their level. The other point I would like to make regarding this topic is that, and forgive my bluntness, if someone doesn't have the patience to read through the stickies, or the long threads (which are long BECAUSE they are full of USEFUL AND IMPORTANT information), they have no business being a sniper. A sniper without patience is a waste of space on the field and the team. Finally, as I said before, it's very easy to find takedown guides. A google search will easily pop some up, and I went to the trouble of combining many of them on ASGAR: http://groups.google.com/group/asgar/web/disassembly-guides?pli=1 As I keep saying, they can look at pictures all they want, but it's no substitute for experience. A takedown guide will help them disassemble the parts, and any reasonably intelligent person (and the idiots get banned extremely quickly around here) should be able to figure out how they work (especially when they put it back together wrong and then the gun doesn't work). But reasoning behind the "search" mantra aside, good work. It appears to be largely correct, although you're missing a substantial amount of information about hopup dynamics, barrel mechanics, etc, that they would have gotten if they read the threads I mentioned. If you're going to make a truly comprehensive guide, I would like to see takedown guides for all the major gun types, discussions of hopup mechanics (and overhop), barrel mechanics (and barrel suck, porting, crowning, cleaning, barrel shape, consistency, and material), ammo mechanics, etc. As I understand it, this thread is intended to help them understand the nuances of how their gun works, without having to blow through all the threads where we've developed the concepts. Might want to talk about maintenance, managing trigger pull, managing the magazine issues on the BAR-10, trigger box reinforcement on the L96 (gunfighters is the real expert on L96's, so he'll be able to help more with that if you need it). I'm also curious why you recommend the Mauser style guns. I recall those being garbage. And what about the M24 variants? Or the SVD variants, which are fantastic? Keep up the good work, and we'll have another sticky worthy thread perhaps, although the cynic (or realist) in me wants to warn you that it probably won't get read once you're done unless we tell people to read it.
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #6 on: December 21, 2010, 03:16:49 PM
Quote from: gunfighters on December 21, 2010, 10:45:34 AM very nice notes.. tsd/utg/well l96 are all the same maby add some info on piston heads

Posts: 989

Will do.
Do work, son.
Quote from: The Crimson Falcon on December 21, 2010, 01:27:24 PM Well researched, nice compilation. Of course, you're missing the point of WHY we tell the new players to search. If we just waste our time hand-making guides for them on material that they can find with a fair amount of ease, then they just ask questions, and instead of getting intelligent threads based on research, you just get a bunch of the same old questions. As for you, congratulations, you've proven to me that you are not a waste of my time. You put together a pretty decent guide. Unfortunately, after a few months, it's going to be hidden in the perch, and nobody will read it (just like the other stickies). So if we don't tell people to search and read the stickies (which is not the same thing as telling them to search; they're linked at the top of the perch, and the forum rules recommend that newbies to the forum read the stickies before they post) then they just don't, and we spend all our time answering the same tired questions, or Atilla just drops the ban-hammer and they're gone. If you care about the newbies, then do as we do, and tell them to search. We don't do it to be jerks. We do it because if we don't, this forum gets reduced to their level. The other point I would like to make regarding this topic is that, and forgive my bluntness, if someone doesn't have the patience to read through the stickies, or the long threads (which are long BECAUSE they are full of USEFUL AND IMPORTANT information), they have no business being a sniper. A sniper without patience is a waste of space on the field and the team. Finally, as I said before, it's very easy to find takedown guides. A google search will easily pop some up, and I went to the trouble of combining many of them on ASGAR: http://groups.google.com/group/asgar/web/disassembly-guides?pli=1 As I keep saying, they can look at pictures all they want, but it's no substitute for experience. A takedown guide will help them disassemble the parts, and any reasonably intelligent person (and the idiots get banned extremely quickly around here) should be able to figure out how they work (especially when they put it back together wrong and then the gun doesn't work). But reasoning behind the "search" mantra aside, good work. It appears to be largely correct, although you're missing a substantial amount of information about hopup dynamics, barrel mechanics, etc, that they would have gotten if they read the threads I mentioned. If you're going to make a truly comprehensive guide, I would like to see takedown guides for all the major gun types, discussions of hopup mechanics (and overhop), barrel mechanics (and barrel suck, porting, crowning, cleaning, barrel shape, consistency, and material), ammo mechanics, etc. As I understand it, this thread is intended to help them understand the nuances of how their gun works, without having to blow through all the threads where we've developed the concepts. Might want to talk about maintenance, managing trigger pull, managing the magazine issues on the BAR-10, trigger box reinforcement on the L96 (gunfighters is the real expert on L96's, so he'll be able to help more with that if you need it). I'm also curious why you recommend the Mauser style guns. I recall those being garbage. And what about the M24 variants? Or the SVD variants, which are fantastic? Keep up the good work, and we'll have another sticky worthy thread perhaps, although the cynic (or realist) in me wants to warn you that it probably won't get read once you're done unless we tell people to read it.

Thanks TCF. Actually, I really do enjoy any type of constructive criticism in all honesty and respect. I mean, to be honest, I really am quite smart in fact, and when I first was interested in sniping, those takedown guide's did really help me out with understand what it all LOOKS like, but not how it WORKED. I honestly did in fact take all the time to read through the stickies when I started, but I could never really get the big picture, at least not until I actually ordered my Bar-10 and put my hands on it and took it apart to see how all the parts worked together. Part of me knows that this might be a waste of effort and noobs might still

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continuously be flocking on ASR, not reading this, and not understanding what a "sear" or "nub" is, but the other part is sympathetic for the noob, considering how I, along with everyone else, was at one point a newb as well. I know what happens if we don't tell them to search. I think we all know it by one name: ASF. If any of you go to their Sniper's section, you will find your palm subconsciously moving at a quick speed into your face. The reason I wrote this was so a newb could reference this guide sort of as their dictionary of what the names of parts are and how they work and not have to wade through tens of pages to finally learn what the "piston sear" does (been there as well). I don't mind bluntness, Honesty is the best policy. I understand that reading through long stickies is important, which is still quite necessary, but reading through the stickies as a newb didn't answer all of my questions. I still didn't know what some things were or how they worked because I simply didn't know what the writer was talking about, specifically what parts they were talking about, how it worked in the system, and even where it was located for some. I can tell you in full honesty that the link you posted, I had actually read through it before I got my first Bar-10. I couldn't agree with you more when you say experience is the best way to learn, because I answered all my question once I opened up the brown box that was placed upon my doorstep by a fine man in brown. But it did take me a bit of courage and daring to finally order my gun, considering how I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. I know that AS sniper rifles are under $150 now, but I'm just a 16 year old, which is around the age of your average newb. $150 to me and other 16 year old Americans is the same as an amount 10 times as much for an adult, and spending that amount on something that could be considered a gamble isn't exactly something that helps you sleep comfortably. This guide was to help that teenager understand exactly what he was spending a good amount of his or her money on, and really, if it just helps out one person, then I'd feel this was not a wasted effort. Thank you TCF. It means a lot. I know I didn't put a lot of specific stuff in there, but really when it comes down to detailed stuff like that, the person probably isn't a newb anymore. Complex things like that are better off learned through firsthand exposure to help them understand what they are learning about. That's why I didn't explain much on how the trigger mechanism works. I even said "it's much easier explained if you can actually get your hands on it". And that's not even as complex as things like hop up dynamics or even cylinder-barrel volume matching. I don't think I'll need to put up takedown guides because really, there are a million out there. In fact, when I got my L96, I referenced that youtube video of the guy in the ghillie suit, the one that EVERYONE has seen, taking his gun apart. It's actually a great guide. There's guides on maintenence (millions out there), trigger pull (stickies), mag issues (SVTCobra's guide), uhhh... there aren't any on trigger box reinforcement (actually, I have a guide that I wrote on it stored in the PM's. I know about it as well hehehe) but again, that's really too detailed for the newb. I really don't put the detailed things in there because there are a million guides on the detailed. I even have my own guide on Mag Catch Shimming to provide loads more consistency in the L96, but that needs a basic foundation of understanding how the gun works. This guide is really just the stepping stone to the other side where all of the real golden knowledge is; sort of like a "read-me first" guide. As for the Mauser's, really? I had no idea. I just figured they were another clone/imitation L96. I also mentioned that I wouldn't talk about other guns like the M24's, the APS's, and others simply because this is a Newb's guide, and really a Newb must learn how to work an easy platform before moving on to the others more advanced ones. It's actually what I finish off the guide saying. Thanks for all the feedback guys.
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Quote from: XavierMace on January 22, 2011, 01:17:19 AM I play with woman ALL THE TIME.... Oh, you meant in airsoft.

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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #7 on: December 21, 2010, 04:31:13 PM

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"Only a few upgrade pistons have it though"-I think you meant to say "Only a few upgraded pistons have it though" This is a very nice guide that I thoroughly enjoyed reading. This has helped me, as an average AEG/Gas Pistol user to understand the larger picture of sniping, I really wanted a guide that wasn't about the details, because I am more than likely not going to get into sniping, but a guide that could give me a larger picture so I know what some of the snipers are talking about and can get the general gist of a conversation. One helpful thing might be to add a list of stickies that you found especially useful, so that the "newbs" can read the 1,200 long page discussion and stop being a "newb". Thanks for taking your time to write this informative guide.
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 05:41:07 PM

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All of the spring rifles are based on the same principle. The CA M24 actually uses a vertical sear, and the SVD's really deserve to be discussed, since both the AtoZ and its clone, the A&K, are great out of the box. The Mausers are...finicky. Plus they look nothing like an L96.

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I think the important part is where you're talking about how many airsofters are young and don't have access to a lot of money. This is PRECISELY why I advocate buying AEG's instead. You can get a decent AEG for the same price as a sniper rifle platform, and go out and play. You're going to have to do some serious saving to get a sniper rifle up and running, and there's nothing that I hate more in airsoft than kids with crappy spring sniper rifles going out and calling themselves snipers. There were actually people last weekend when I went to play CQB running around with L96's. Complete waste, really. Unless you're doing a 1j setup with a TK twist, spring sniper rifles have no place in CQB, IMO.
Quote from: lulukchoo23 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:49 PM I couldn't agree with you more when you say experience is the best way to learn, because I answered all my question once I opened up the brown box that was placed upon my doorstep by a fine man in brown.

See, this is exactly what I'm saying. I never really saw the need, because while your guide makes sense to those of us who have already been into the gun, if you haven't opened up the gun and experienced it first hand, pictures very rarely make sense. Basically, I think new players need to follow the same process that you did. We all experienced the fear of opening up a gun for the first time (AEG's are far worse, even though they're still pretty simple). I tend to think that's a good and necessary part of airsoft. One correction I noted. You say that slamfiring only happens in VSR's. That's not true. Slamfiring can occur for a variety of reasons. With a VSR, it's usually piston stripping or sear degradation. With the other models, it's usually receiver stripping, so the trigger mech is slipping down. It's still slamfiring, and can happen on any spring sniper rifle model.
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Re: The Newbie's Answer-All Guide to How a Spring Sniper Rifle Works ***Complete
Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: Cyrils Scribe on December 21, 2010, 04:31:13 PM "Only a few upgrade pistons have it though"-I think you meant to say "Only a few upgraded pistons have it though" This is a very nice guide that I thoroughly enjoyed reading. This has helped me, as an average AEG/Gas Pistol user to understand the larger picture of sniping, I really wanted a guide that wasn't about the details, because I am more than likely not going to get into sniping, but a guide that could give me a larger picture so I know what some of the snipers are talking about and can get the general gist of a conversation. One helpful thing might be to add a list of stickies that you found especially useful, so that the "newbs" can read the 1,200 long page discussion and stop being a "newb". Thanks for taking your time to write this informative guide.

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Do work, son.

Hehehehe I'll fix that. I'm happy to have at least helped someone out TCF, yeah I know of the CA. I noted that all guns are vertical except for VSR-10 clones/imitations I think. I didn't mention the CA since it's also known to be extremely finicky from what I've heard, definitely something that someone with more experience should be handling. I don't really know much of the SVD springers besides that they take AEG buckings and springs and aren't they supposed to hurt real bad when you pull them back with a heavier spring? Not sure, I'm willing to take a donation of info on the SVD if it really is quite necessary and if anyone's up for it. As for the Mauser's, are these the ones you're talking about? Cause they're the ones I was thinking of: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Mauser_Spring_Sniper_Rifle/1488 . And from what I've heard, http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Mauser_Pro_Tactical_Sniper_Rifle/1688 this is the same gun, but just on a different stock. Hehe I know, I've saved up money and I've used an AEG before. Actually, I used a Cybergun Thompson, which wasn't a very bad gun. I really only got my Bar-10 when I was really curious on sniping after playing a good amount with the Tommy. I do say in the intro in big bold and underlined that people should always be doing just that, getting an AEG first. CQB with L96's? That's....... gross. Yup, but I guess I'm being a little too nice here with my guide. I mean, airsoft is a ballzy sport. Gotta have balls to go out and get shot, gotta have balls to take a gamble with a new gun. Well, I said ONLY just to put an emphasis on how much I hate the 45 degree system, and how it really isn't even such a common a problem in other guns as the VSR. I'll take my bias out hehe...
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