Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, June 14, 2012 Partial Howard Griswold Conference calls: conf call (talkshoe)

724-444-7444 95099# 1# (non-talkshoe members must use the 1# after the pin number) Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time. Talkshoe mutes the phone lines Conference Call is simulcast on: www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m. Note: there is a hydrate water call 8 pm, Eastern Mondays, 218-844-3388 966771# Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.) Check out: www.escapeharrassment.com www.escape-tickets-IRS-court.org All correspondence to: Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940 (do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in that mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable future.) Donations are accepted. "All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, has been gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and "Information packages" listed at www.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONS and/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line) Dave DiReamer can be reached at: notaxman@dmv.com Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer: Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality. Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping ($35 barebones minimum) www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958 ******************** Christian Walters (trusts) is on Mondays, Tuesdays and Saturdays at nine o'clock, Eastern Time. The number is 1-712-432-0075 and the pin is 149939# (9 pm EST). Wednesdays number is 1-724-444-7444 and the pin is 41875# (8 pm, Eastern) or tune in on Wednesday at Talkshoe.com at http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp? masterId=41875&cmd=tc

Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth Howard approves or disapproves all postings to this yahoo group. Send potential posting to Howard. Note: questions to Howard are now submitted to Howard, preferably typed, to Gemini Research rather than fielded on the call live. It would be desirable to send a couple of bucks for mailing, copying and printing costs. ********************* Extra legal help is available from the firm, Ketchum, Dewey, Cheatham and Howe. ******************************************************************* **************************************** A recording of each Howard Griswold Thursday conference call is available from Dezert Owl upon request for any sized donation. Go to the following link: www.TheRealPublicRadio.Net/Archives.html . For donations to desert, send them to Free America Radio Network, 121 Seaparc Circle, Suite B, Kingsland, Georgia 31548. Phone number: 912-882-2142. Cell: 304-629-7169. For reference: Jersey City v. Hague, 115 Atlantic Reporter 2nd, page 8 (A 2nd ) ********** Project for all: Howard needs information on how to write a complaint for breach of the trust. Hit the libraries! He would appreciate any research help. ***************************************************** Start ***************************************************** {01:53:12.486} [Howard] One of our assistant researchers with Gemini wrote a notice to the court for somebody and sent me a copy of it and in that notice he quoted something from a case and said that the courts are always there to uphold the rights of property of the individuals in America. Well, lo and behold, he quoted a very old case. Dave mentioned it tonight. It was in one of the e-mails. It is United States v. Lee at 106 US Rpts, p. 196. Now, this is old. Its an 1882 case. They dont pay any attention to those cases if you put them into court unless you do the kinds of things that I try to do and that is I try to show the old cases and I try to show the new cases or I try to show the new law and show that the law has never changed. The only thing that has changed is the corruption of the law by appearance created by

corrupt lawyers. In 1882 in this caseand believe it or not this is a very interesting case this case is about a piece of property that was owned by Lee and a friend of his owns another part and another lady owned a very small part and it involved 1100 acres of ground in the Arlington, Virginia area which today is known as the Arlington National Cemetery. The United States government tried to steal that piece of property from Mr. Lee and the other two people. Now, Mr. Lee owned the bulk of it. It was inherited by him from the family after someone older than him had passed away and left it to him as his inheritance. And the United States government created a tax on certain property and it applied to that property and he didnt pay the tax. He was late anyway in paying the tax. Well, he made an attempt once he was notified to pay the tax and by the way the law was written the commissioners who collect the taxes were not able by law to accept the money except from the individual himself and by a certain time and if he didnt then they could refuse to accept the money. Well, this case went all the way up to the US Supreme Court which is why its got the number 106 US, p. 196 and the Supreme Court looked at the case and they made some comments and one of their comments was, this court in a series of cases established the proposition that where commissioners refuse to receive such taxes their action in thus preventing the payment was the equivalent of payment in its effect upon the certificate of sale. And they cite Bennett v. Hunter 9 Wall 326, Taxey v. Irwin 18 Wall 549 and then the later case, Attwood v. Weems 99 US Rpts, p. 183. Now, Wall and Howard and a few other different lawyers back in the early days of the United States wrote the Supreme Court Reports. Those reports were called by the name of the writer and Wall was for Wallace and How was for Howard and there was a few other ones that wrote some of the reports. In the early US cases those names were used instead of calling it a US Report. But theyre still United States Supreme Court Reports the court said that it was not within the authority of anyone who was offered a tender of payment to pay a debt such as a tax debt that it could be refused. Now, like I said, these are very old cases. The courts today pay no attention whatsoever to these old cases. The court went on to say in that case that it would be an idle ceremony for any of these to make the offer and an actual tender by such person as it would certainly not be accepted need not even be made. And in most cases this is what educated stupid Americans would do. They would not tender the payment. If theyre behind and they cant afford it and it has become a large amount of money they would just back off and go away and not tender the payment but Mr. Lee did tender the payment including the interest charge for being late and they refused to accept it. So, that the commissioners in the execution of law acted upon a rule which deprived the owner of his land and an important right and that is the right of property, a right which went to the root of the matter, a right that has no instance known to us. In other words, they had no right to take his property, no instance that was known to the Supreme Court or cited by the council on this case and refused to a taxpayer. Thus, the court said, the sale made under such circumstances is invalid as much so as if the tax had actually been paid or tendered. Now, Dave has many times in discussions that he has brought up mentioned Section 3-603 or 3604 depending upon which state code youre looking at of the Uniform Commercial Code which reads under 3-604 in Delaware and very similarly I just looked it up in Illinois. Its under 3-603 out in Illinois. It says, any party making a tender of full payment to a holder of a note when or after it is due is discharged to the extent to all subsequent liabilities or interest, costs and attorneys fees. Now, this is the modern law. Todays law, Subsection 2 of 3-604 of the Delaware Code goes on to say that the holder and his refusal of such tender

wholly discharges any party who has a right of recourse against the party making the tender. They are discharged of the debt. Now, these courts, today, will not pay any attention to that at all. Talk about a breach of fiduciary duty claim against a judge, heres the law, and you dont have to go far to find this. You dont have to call me or Dave. It is in the commercial code books of your state code at Section 3-603 or 3-604its one of those sections. It is todays law and it is backed up by the common law and has been the same thing since back in the early 1800s all the way through to the United States v. Lee case in 1862 and beyond. Im sure if we did a little searching in the cases related to the subject matter, Im sure we would find other cases along the way too that have said the same thing or the court has refused to address the issue again because they have already ruled on it, certiorari denied in some cases. Once the court has ruled on the same subject several times they refuse to do it again in some cases. And you cant blame them, why would they repeat themselves over and over and over again? Theres no need for it. The case law established the fact that if you offer payment and it is refused by the creditor, whatever type of creditor it may be, that discharges any further debt related to that amount, whatever that amount is. And it also, it goes on to say, that it discharges any interest, costs and attorneys fees. So these scum lawyers cant even collect their lawyers fees when they attempt to collect the debt that has gone into default for non-payment where there was an attempt to make the payment. Now, this brings up an interesting little subject, these mortgage foreclosures that are going on. You havent lost until you lose and you dont have to lose. Here is a possible subject matter for anybody thats in foreclosure to muster together one months payment. No matter how far behind you are one months payment is due. Maybe ten months payments are due. But an attempt by you to make the first payment that youre in default on and a refusal by them to accept it discharges the debt of that payment and any further interest charges or costs of going to court and suing you or attorneys fees and stops them cold but you better back it up with the case law of the past as well as the present law of the future and the present day. And the future is controlled entirely by the commercial codes. So, the case law can be looked up on the internet or found by somebody going to a library and looking up United States v. Lee 106 US at page 196 and then go to your state code on commerce and trade or commerce or Uniform Commercial Code or whatever they call it in your state and look up 3-603 and if its not there look at 3-604. Its in one of those sections. If its not there it might be in 3-60 I dont know, there might be a state where they put it there. I havent found that but so far every one I found is either 3-603 or 3-604. But there might be one that stuck it somewhere else, a little bit further up or a little bit sooner. Maybe its 3-602 in some states. I dont know. I havent covered every state but the states Ive covered I have found this section and it is called tender of payment. If payment is tendered and payment is refused the debt is discharged. Now, only to the extent of that particular amount of the debt that is due at that time. That doesnt extinguish the entire debt unless you offered to pay the entire debt with money. Dont think that you can go in there and offer them one months payment and extinguish the entire debt. Thats not the way it works. But they cannot continue to foreclose on property if you offer a payment and they refuse. They have to reinstate and start accepting your payments. And if they proceed in court to close down a foreclosure action through the courts it should not be done. This would definitely be a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the attorneys for the bank or debt collection lawyers or whatever they profess to be. And even a breach of fiduciary duty on the part of the judge if

he ignores it. You might have an interesting lawsuit against them to upset their apple cart to turn around the foreclosure action. It takes a little initiative on your part, a little bit of study and learning these few simple things that we just talked about on your part and, of course, reading a little bit about breach of fiduciary duty from the information that we put out about that and made available. By the way, if you get on talkshoe.com, Google the Gemini Research Group and you will find a lot of information on there about fiduciary duty including the form for how to do a breach of fiduciary duty lawsuit. Now, that form came out of Colorado. Thats not going to stop you from using it. Its the same format all over the place, whether its the federal courts or any state court. Its the same form. You just dont use the Colorado cites that are in there. The best cite to use is that its equity and it is under the authority of the courts to have jurisdiction over law and equity. Dont put any particular statutory cites in there because when you put a statutory cite you put the case in administrative courts under the administrative procedure. If you want to stay in equity you just have to put in a pleading in equity such as breach of fiduciary duty and dont quote any statutes at all because that keeps it in equity and that puts it, believe it or not, in Article 3 jurisdiction even in the state courts under law and equity. Thats the jurisdictional authority that Article 3 established. You could stop tax foreclosures by justtake somebody with you as a witness in any case or have somebody as a witness that can make you an affidavit stating that you put the money in the mail to make this payment that you were behind in and to try to catch up on the payments. And that proves that you tendered the payment. If you dont have a witness then you cant prove that youve tendered it so you really do need somebody to be a witness that you put it in the mail or you went to them in person and attempted to make the payment and they refused it. When they refuse it then you have this situation that were talking about that it is discharged to that extent of that payment and they cannot continue on by adding interest, by going to court and charging costs, by charging attorneys fees and once the attorney cant get his fees Attorneys are there for money just like doctors and preachers. Theyre all there for money. If theyre not getting their money they wont continue to do the job so the lawyers will quit when they know they cant get their attorneys fees and they wont be there for the good of the bank. And now you have an advantage that youre in the court against the foreclosure action with no attorney against you because he isnt going to be there. Hes not going to make any money. Alright, thats one thing I wanted to bring up tonight. Another thing I want to bring up is using your brain, thinking, learning to think instead of following the program weve been taught to follow. Theres a fellowI think hes down in Arizonanamed Marc Stevens. I am really impressed with what hes come up with. It shows me that some people can use their brain and can think. This is something even I didnt think about. I guess I understood some parts of it but I never really analyzed it and thought about how to do something with it but he did. Hes come up with a very interesting approach to a court case. He saysand if you get a chance to get on any calls that hes on you ought to listen to him because this is not a patriot nut with a bunch of stupid things like write across the document accepted for value and send it back. Thats not going to work. It does not work. So whoever came up with that shenanigan did not research the law clearly enough to understand what that means and what can be done with it. It does not apply in the way that theyre trying to apply it. Writing silver bonds to pay your debts it is a good way to get yourself in trouble. Thats accepting the debt. Both of those functions are accepting the debt. Once youve accepted the debt youre liable for it. So you put your foot in your mouth by using those kinds of

procedures. These are the kinds of things that you will not hear Dave reading e-mails about as new information and knowledge coming out. Dave wont read those kinds of things because we know better. We dont put that kind of stuff out. We dont follow that line of thinking because we researched the law. [Dave] Marc Stevens website is called the adventures in legal land.

[Howard] Ok, I wasnt aware of thatAdventures in Legal Land. Well, you can look him up and learn something from him. He has a unique approach. When you go into the court the first thing you do, he says, is you ask the judge if you are entitled to a fair trial. He says, naturally, the judge is going to say, yes. Then you ask the judge, well, in that case can I get a fair trial? And naturally the judge will say, yes. Then he says, you ask the judge who do you work for? The judge either works for the United States government who has filed a case against you or he works for the state government who has filed a case against you. If he wont answer you, you say, well, look, judge, you and I both know that you work for the State of Blank or for the United States and the United States or the State of Blank is who has made this claim against me. Now, if you work for them then you are part of them. If youre part of them there is no way that you could be fair. According to Marc when you do this most of the time the judges have thrown the cases out of court and told you to get out of the courtroom. They dismiss the case and its an excellent point that hes bringing because actually it is a conflict of interest for the judge to be a party to one of the parties. And he indeed is. And that article that Dave brought up earlier tonight that there are no judges is absolutely correct because there really are no judges. The judges are supposed to be independent not employees of the state or employees of the United States. If they are then it is a conflict of interest for them to sit on a case with the United States v. You or the State v. You. They are supposed to be there to settle a dispute between you and I. Theyre not supposed to be there to execute state laws against the private individuals. Theyre getting away with doing this and have been getting away with doing this for quite a few years in this country because of the ignorance of the people. And I dont mean to insult you but you have to realize that education never taught us these principles of law and the principles of government that exist and we have pointed this out many times. The United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 gives the Congress to the United States all the power and authority that it needs to make laws to regulate themselves. The state constitutions give each one of the state legislatures the power to make all the laws that are needed to regulate themselves, the state. The state is the government. That is another name for government. Their laws are internal. They apply only to the government, the governments personnel and the governments property. Those laws cannot be applied to you and I out here in society. Theyre not actually part of government. The application of such law is a misrepresentation. It is fraud upon the people. It is corruption by lawyers to bring this kind of stuff into the courts and the courts are going along with it. So its corruption by the courts too. We do not come under their internal rules and regulations, statutes and codes because they apply only to what government has created and what government owns and can control within itself, not to us in our private capacity. Any contractual agreement for registration of property that we have made is a taking of private property without just compensation for the benefit of government to profit off of us and our property and, again, is a breach of their fiduciary duty. Now, this is broad in the way Im

explaining it. You have to have enough ability to think to be able to apply what Ive just said to the situation that you may be in. But it applies in almost all situations. It is not possible at all to tie this down and create a prototype that will cover everybodys situation. But the form that is available is vague. It has blanks to be filled in and the reason it does is because thats where the particular situation gets explained by you and you fill in the blank explaining the particular situation. So the form is already available to create a prototype that will fit your situation. Thats not possible. Maybe we can create something for one person that somebody else might be able to look at and see how parts of that would fit theirs with their situation, their experience, their facts have to be put into it separately. We have to learn to think. We have to learn to be more like Marc Stevens and some of these other leaders today who are starting to think and actually read the law and apply the laws. You cannot come up with a broad statement and think that thats sufficient. You have to be specific about the details, about whatever actually were the circumstances that occurred. And youre not lacking the capability to do that, youre just lacking the initiative to muster the capability that you have and put it to use when you dont want to do it. So, if you dont want to do it, fine, dont bother, dont get involved because youre going to blow it anyway. Youre going to lose unless you want to put out the effort to learn enough to put it together properly. So, I may again be insulting people but Im sorry that youre insulted. If you dont have the initiative then you should not become involved. That may insult you but tough. Im sure that our Creator would look down upon you and say, If you dont wish to pull yourself out of the mess you got yourself into, its your own fault. Im not helping you either. I dont think our Creators real happy about a lot of whats going on here on this planet today. And youre going to see a wrath brought upon us and its already starting and its only going to get worse and more intense because of peoples lack of desire to put out an effort to learn and then do something to straighten out the wrongs that are going on. So, you suffer for your own, I guess we might call it laziness. And I cant do anything about that. All I can tell you or say is that there are many people like Marc Stevens and numerous other onesI cant even run down the whole list. There are so many of them today that are putting out good information that have spent an awful lot of time finding out how this stuff is done, putting the information out which isboy, thats a job in itself. Researching it is a job in itself. Putting it out and distributing it is a job in itself. It really takes two people to handle those two jobs. Im thankful I have people like Dave DiReimer who is helping me get the information out and people like Marylou thats helping get it out on the computer today. And people like Jim McNeil who normally is making the transcripts of these speeches and getting them out to people. If I didnt have people like that helping me I couldnt be getting this information out as well because Im so busy helping people that need help and researching and learning these things. Every week I talk about something different and a little bit more knowledge is brought to you. Do you think that just comes to me because I look up and say, hey, God, tell me what to do? No, it doesnt because God doesnt tell me what to do. God doesnt help me. Its up to me. He gave me a brain to do it with. He wont give it to me. I got to find it myself and that takes time and effort. Well, that time and effort is part of life, but its a big part of life. That doesnt leave me a whole lot of time for an effort of distributing the information so thank heavens for the people that are helping me distribute it. And youll notice that a lot of the information that I put out in the past is starting to come from other people and theyre starting to back it up and some of them have found even more than I found and are adding to it. And God bless those people.

The knowledge is starting to return as was promised in the Bible. It will return in these last days. I dont think we have a whole lot of time to absorb that knowledge so you people need to pay attention and apply yourself and absorb that knowledge and apply it because the time is shortvery shortin front of us. Some very exciting things, Im not sure youre going to enjoy them but theyre going to be exciting that will be transpiring in the very near future and its already starting to happen in a small scale. But its going to amplify tremendously as the next month and year or so go on. So things ought to get to be very exciting and you can make them exciting even more exciting if you will just apply yourself and go back after some of these scum that are doing these wrongs with breach of fiduciary duty cases. Now, theres a bunch of people starting to put these together. Im getting calls all the time from people now that are asking me questions about little details about how do I do this and how do I do that. Theyre putting a case together. Some of them have already filed a case. Didnt even call me. Im hearing from some people that they know other people that have been listening and researching on their own and putting cases together and already got them filed. So, were making progress. Were going to upset this corrupt system because it is dishonest. And thats how simple breach of fiduciary duty is just prove their dishonesty. Thats why it would be so important for you to get those emails that Dave was talking about, about the purpose and principles of this government, the Constitutional rights and duties and authorities of government because if you understand what the purpose was behind that and what theyre doing today you can understand that they are breaching their fiduciary duty. And you could bring these cases and it wont hurt you. They cant come back on you. Now, they have these plans to arrest the few that they thought there would be that might stand up against it. Well, if enough people are standing up against it they cant arrest them all. They dont have a place to put them all. They wont even bother, not when they realize there are so many people waking up and doing something about it. So, its up to you. Its up to the American people in this country. Its up to the people of each and other one of the countries around the world to look up their laws, to understand how theyre not following their own laws and bring claims against them. Now, I dont know if every other country in the world has breach of fiduciary duty but any foreign country theyve got laws and the people in those countriesif youll do a little research checking I think you may find that something similar or identical may well be available in your countries to bring the same kinds of claims against your government officials. Right now in Syria theres a awful lot of upheaval inside the country and a number of countries outside saying the government is wrong. Theyve got to stop doing what theyre doing. Well, thats just one example. Theres something going wrong in every country because every country is following these evil ways {Khazarian Bolsheviks in every government at work?}. Theyre depriving the people of their liberty and their private property rights and every country guarantees to some extent your right of property and your right of liberty. Even within government if you are a party to government because the government made you a party to it. They still have internal rules that they have to protect your rights of liberty and your rights of private property. So, look it up. No matter what country youre in theres a lot of people on these calls that are actually here from foreign countries. Everything today goes through the internet. The internet allows distribution of this type of information all across the world on the worldwide web. Other countries have similar laws, maybe not identical, but it requires you to look. And in this country weve looked, we pointed out to our people, if our people are afraid to do it, are reluctant to step

forward, if they keep sitting back and doing nothing then theyre going to suffer a whole lot worse for what they allowed to happen and the same things true in every other country. Theyll suffer a lot worse for what they allow to continue happening. Weve allowed it for too long worldwide already. We dont have much time left to do something about it, to bring these scum bags that are doing this to us to their knees. By the way, these scum bags are not always claiming to be Jews. Some of them claim to be Christians. Some of them claim to be Islams. Some of them claim to be Buddhists. It matters not what they claim to be. It matters what they are and what they are is Canaanites and they are the evil lot that are bringing evil upon the people. I think the Bible says something in the Islam text and in the Christian text and in the Old Testament text that you will recognize Gods people by their conduct and you will recognize his enemies by their conduct. Well, first, before you could recognize their conduct you would have to understand the conduct of righteousness and the conduct of evil. And if you dont understand that youll never recognize anything. So you better start paying attention and applying yourself and learning to use the brain that God gave you and think. Dont believe, dont follow the beliefs, but think. Thinking involves more than just following what youve been told to believe and the program youve been taught to follow. Thinking involves applying yourself. The application of mind controls everything. If you think youre going to fail, by God youre right. You will because you thought it. Thought actually materializes. If you think youre going to prevail you will but you cant think youre going to prevail based on application of beliefs. You have to study and come up with the actual law, things like we talked about tonight, US v. Lee and the commercial code duplicating the same thing that the common law that many years ago set forth is still in the law today and if you cant understand it then you need to do more study, you need to research further. Maybe you need to get out a law dictionary and start looking up the meaning of some of the words that you dont understand when youre reading these things like what is tender? Thats an offer to pay. But look it up. Look up the whole definition. Read it, study it, think about it, read it more than once. Thats the only way that youll absorb it into the brain and begin to utilize it and be able to think with it. This is another direction that you can apply and arrange for breach of fiduciary cases in such things as tax collection cases, mortgage foreclosure cases. If you tender the payment, muster a little bit of money, go tender the payment. When they refuse to accept it which they do because their laws and rules say theres a certain breakpoint and once that breakpoint comes they will not accept Well, thats exactly what the law was all about that George Lee brought the argument in front of the courts back in 1882 that the federal law said that there was a point where they wouldnt accept any more and they also wouldnt accept from anybody else except the person himself. So apparently George Lee sent some representative of his to go pay the tax debt. Well, they wouldnt accept it. It was late and it wasnt by him in person because their law said so. Well, the Supreme Court overruled their law and said it doesnt matter what your stupid law says. You cannot refuse to accept the payment and if you do it ceases the debt. This whole system of American BAR Association lawyers is about nothing more than creating and collecting debt. They are not lawyers with knowledge of the law. They are not there to enforce the law. They are there to deceptively and persuasively delude you into the belief that you have a debt and they have a right to collect that debt and the courts are there helping them. Every bit of it is corruption. There may be some legitimate debt somewhere. I promised to take care of my wife for as long as we live together and live and thats a debt. Thats an enforceable debt

by her if dont meet the requirements of the agreement that I made with her. That is a true debt. Anything to do with money today is a phony claim of a debt. There is no real payment of debt in this money because this money is nothing but a promise to pay. It doesnt pay the debt. Theres some case law that says that in federal reserve notes that all it does is it discharges the debt temporarily but it does not pay the debt. So, if there wasnt any real debt in the first place then even a federal reserve note cant pay it. But at least you can tender it and if you tender it then it cancels your liabilityinteresting little approach, isnt it?