Andrew Clay Shafer (@litteidea, VP Transformation @RedHat ) & John Willis (@botchagalupe, Sr.Dir. Transformation) talk about the importance of "learning organizations",   aligning change to business value, and the evolution of self-service and automated governance.SHOW: 485SHOW SPONSOR LINKS:Datadog Security Monitoring Homepage - Modern Monitoring and AnalyticsTry Datadog yourself by starting a free, 14-day trial today. Listeners of this podcast will also receive a free Datadog T-shirt.Okta - You should not be building your own AuthLearn how Okta helped Cengage improve student success rates during COVID.BMC Wants to Know if your business is on its A-GameBMC Autonomous Digital EnterpriseCLOUD NEWS OF THE WEEK - http://bit.ly/cloudcast-cnotwCHECK OUT OUR NEW PODCAST - "CLOUDCAST BASICS"SHOW NOTES:Red Hat Global Transformation OfficeBooks by John Willis10 Must Read DevOps & Transformation BooksTopic 1 - Welcome to the show. You’re both really well known in the DevOps communities, but give us the TL;DR of your backgrounds for anyone not familiar with your work. Topic 2 - Whether people are tired of the term “Digital Transformation” or not, change is a huge part of our industry, especially as it relates to corporate culture and organization. What’s the framing for that type of discussion in 2021? Topic 3 - I’ve heard you both say “technology is easy, people are hard”. How do you think about these conflicts of transformation, whether people’s individual motivations aren’t always aligned to a business goal? Topic 4 - One of the biggest differences between existing companies and start-ups is the level of self-service that they build around their systems. The self-service systems allow experimentation, allow automated deployments, etc. But is there a way to bring a concept of automated governance to these end-to-end models? Topic 5 - Oftentimes transformations are aligned with cloud-native technologies, cloud-native apps. The model of Ops in a cloud-native world is different. What are some of the areas you both focus on to make cloud-native Ops successful, or better aligned to the technology part of transformations? Topic 6 - What are some of the best and worst “getting started” steps that you see various groups (or companies) take in their transformation journeys? FEEDBACK?Email: show at thecloudcast dot netTwitter: @thecloudcastnet